One of my regrets is that I often find myself saving my best write-ups and ideas for posts on the Seahawks.net draft message board, while sometimes failing to transfer those thoughts over here at Seahawks Draft Blog. That was especially true last year for Russell Wilson. Some of my best works have been on message boards. I have put as much as 36 hours into a message board post on a few occasions, ranging as high as 3,000 to 5,000 words. How anyone reads them, I have no idea.
Well here I am, another year and I am doing it again. Some topics aren’t quite blog appropriate, but today I’m linking a couple of works over there that you might find worthwhile reads.
The first is a “what I expect to happen” mock draft, in which I make picks not based on my own draft grades, but based on how I expect John Schneider and Pete Carroll to grade. There are certain assumptions I’ve made based on evidence that could prove faulty or dead accurate. I assume that because John Schneider was Ted Thompson’s right hand man that certain aspects of talent evaluation could carry over.
For example, Green Bay has mostly targeted receivers with excellent quickness and good/great forty times. Basically, they target YAC machines (yards after catch). Seattle’s notable receiver acquisitions through the draft process to date have included Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Kris Durham, Jermaine Kearse, Phil Bates, and Lavasier Tuinei. All of whom ran better than average forty times, exempting Tuinei, who was rumored to be a potential fast tight end convert. So when I look at receivers in this draft, I’m looking for speed, quick feet, and obvious yards after catch ability. Being a deep threat or having jump ball skills is also a major plus. In this example, I have Seattle drafting two receivers, one of them Kenny Stills with a very late pick. I feel that Stills checks all the criteria boxes and his game reminds me a lot of Golden Tate. That’s not to say that I think Stills is a late round steal or anything, I’m just saying that I think he’ll be a guy to watch later if Seattle opts for a second receiver. I think he fits the profile.
I also did a fun “what I would do” mock. It includes picks that might not be very likely or fit Seattle’s criteria, but are just players I really like. It also contains an argument for Jarvis Jones, who according to Tony Pauline is widely expected to be this year’s Da’Quan Bowers, meaning he will likely reach the 25th pick and beyond.
The value determination of the picks (i.e. player X is realistic in round Y) was based loosely on Tony Pauline’s draft rankings, which badly needs to be updated but have proven extremely accurate in past drafts.
Of course, this is all before free agency, and that of course will change things. I’m not expecting Seattle to do a whole lot though. There are indications out there that Seattle wants to keep out of the big money free agent receiver market. Jones and Branch are free agents and both have a high chance of departing. Seattle might dabble here and there in free agency, but I’m not expecting anything that will shift priorities. John Schneider as always will seek to build through the draft.
I don’t know if I think Tavon Austin would be the best pick at #25… Maybe. Datone Jones is also intriguing, and I doubt will be there in the 2nd round. But man Austin sure would be fun to watch.
I mentioned in the writeup that I doubt Jones specifically will last that long. I just think at least one of the “first wave” of DTs will reach our 2nd round pick, and I think Datone Jones is the guy Seattle really wants to be there.
I really, really, really would be ecstatic to grab Tavon! He is incredible!
They’d be better served by trying to build Da’rick Rogers into their number one outside option.
I doubt anyone will be able to do that. Rogers is an entitled head case.
There were some who said the same thing about Irvin. Rogers definitely made some mistakes but it is hard to say he is a lost cause without seeing his interviews. Having an offense that includes so many solid characters (Okung, Unger, Robinson, Baldwin, Rice, Miller) especially with the efforts that Wilson is making to reach out to each of his receivers individually makes me more inclined to take on a character risk, assuming he has truly owned up to his past and has a successful strategy that he is currently implementing to be a better person. Wilson will fire up these guys to stick with the program, they just need to make sure he’s reformed.
Irvin was very different. He grew up among a bad crowd. Once he was taken out of that situation, he’s shown near flawless character. No reported issues in Junior College or West Virginia. Nobody was calling him an entitled head case.
Rogers is a complete contrast. This is a guy who had a suspicious recruiting situation, marched onto the Tennessee team and almost immediately was getting into trouble off the field. He consistently showed blatant disrespect to his coaches and failed numerous drugs test. Essentially, he was a nightmare and got kicked off the team. There was a report during the combine stating that the Tennessee Tech coaches were not giving him great reviews when speaking to NFL scouts.
I wouldn’t want him on my team, not even in a strong dressing room. Let somebody else deal with this particular headache.
From what I understand, he failed 2 tests at UT and passed 10 at TT and was supended indefinitely as part of the regime change at UT, but I’m sure there’s more to it and probably wold have been out even if they’d kept the same HC. I”m interested in the report from TT coaches, I’ll see if I can find that. Rang thought he faced his past well, http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/21747696/2013-nfl-combine-darick-rogers-not-hiding-from-troubled-past
I do like Austin, he’d be a perfect #5 but ‘Hawks need a number one outside guy (6’3″ 215 great routes sure-handed, especially red zone, and fast) more than they need a blazing, elusive smaller guy. Rogers would fill the bill if he is reformed but if Austin is the best guy at the pick, I’d appreciate him as well.
I’m going off info I’ve received and bits picked up from a couple of reports at the combine. Let’s just say there’s more to his departure from UT than a couple of failed drugs tests and a regime change. And even if he’s kicked the drugs and is now passing tests (in his interest to do so otherwise, career over) it still doesn’t mean he changed his entitled attitude. Rogers is bad news and he’s not ‘that’ good. Not good enough to turn a blind eye anyway.
You might be right. But I know that Pete Carroll prides himself at helping troubled kids and they were ready to trade for Brandon Marshall and they did bring in Terrell Owens and Lendale White, poster boys for “entitled” attitudes. They also brought in Marshawn Lynch who had very much worn out his welcome in Buffalo. So the organization is definitely sometimes willing to take on character risks. Rang says his talent is 1st round worthy so in a deep draft for WRs like this year, that probably equates to 2nd round. It will be interesting to see where he ends up.
The thing about Owens, White and Lynch was the compensation was as such that all were easily disposable. The Seahawks cut Owens and White shortly after they arrived in Seattle. Had the Seahawks cut Lynch after his first year with the team, I think it would’ve cost only a R4 pick.
When you talk about a day two pick (R2, R3) it’s not so easy to justify cutting someone shortly after you draft them, especially when the issues are well publicised. So if he’s there in the R4-7 range, he maybe gets considered because they know they can cut him at any time and it wasn’t much of a gamble. I doubt he’ll be anywhere near their draft board on the first two days however.
I love the concept too. I think the last two mocks here before the draft should be a “What I Think Will Happen” and a “What I Would Do.”
IMO it’s gotta be Margus Hunt. Who cares about his age, he is going to be one of the most disruptive interior lineman. Plus, think about how much better he is going to make Wilson in practice everyday. He’s like a foot taller than him.
Here’s what I would do;
1rst: kawann short dt
2nd: Kaseem Greene wlb
3rd: shamarko Thomas ss
4th: jordon hill dt
5th: armonty Bryant Leo
5th: Matt Scott qb
6th: sanders Cummings cb
7th: mark Harrison wr
7th: ray graham rb/kr
7th: Lucas reed te
I like ’em all except the first one. Other than speed and agility, what’s to love about this kid? He’s fast, but we already have fast WRs. He’s small, but we already have small WRs. He might (MIGHT) be a good kick returner, but again, we already have one of those.
I’m not saying he’s not worth drafting. All I’m saying is he’s not worth our first pick. Or second.
Austin will probably be the consensus highest rated WR available when Seattle picks, and he fits several of Seattle’s criteria very strongly. You’ll notice that he didn’t lead off the “what I would do mock.” There are other options I like a lot more, but the more I think about it, the more I could see the Seahawks loving Austin. I’m not even 100% sure that Austin will be a specialist, and even if he is, Seattle has shown in the past that they don’t have a problem with specialist players.
I agree that Tavon in the open field is an absolute magician. But I do not think he fits our already very successful scheme at all. He has very little experience with the route tree, relying on screens to get the ball fast. I think think Ryan Swope is a much better fit for us. He is a great route runner with ridiculous speed, good hands, big springs and good yards after catch. Mark Harrison would be a great mid round acquisition. He is the big WR that PC/JS have coveted. And he too has catch me if you can speed! All that being said, I think we should invest our #1 on the DL. Datone looked great at the combine; John Simon looked great on the field vs tougher competition (see Nebraska and Wisconsin. I also think Brandon Williams would significantly help our pass rush. Next to Brandon Mebane, they will collapse and/or penetrate the middle of the pocket. Flushed QB’s will then have to outrun Bruce Irvin…
I’d argue our WR corps is pretty average (not bad) and the one thing they lack is speed/separation. Nobody on this team has a skill set like Tavon. Yes, Tate ran a good time, but his field speed is pretty meh.
I can understand not wanting Austin, but our WR corps is anything but fast. There were way too many times this year, when RW had 6+ seconds and nobody could get open. That can’t happen with regularity. Not to mention, an injury to Rice (very likely) or Tate drastically changes the outlook of this group.
If they see that Austin has the drive and work ethic to keep up with Russell Wilson, then IMO all of the talk about Austin’s limitations would instantly in my eyes become a positive. If he will work HARD like RW, they WILL get it together… They will make it work out…
If we added a catching TE to go with Austin, this draft would be a success… Plus add a BIG WR late, like Rodney Smith of FS, or Brandon Kaufman…
None of the concerns with Austin’s limitations are work rate related.
I am trying to control my enthusiasm, but the only player that gets me truly excited in the first round is Austin. I would love to see him in Seattle’s offense.
There are likely better picks, more fundamental, and I expect to be impressed with whatever JS/PC do. But hearing Austin’s name at 25 (assuming Seattle doesn’t trade down and it’s someone else selecting) would spark a very positive emotional response in me.
Agreed! I want the lightning in the bottle to go with our Field General DangeRuss Wilson! Arm Up!
Despite what Pete and John are saying to the public I’m thinking they will sign more than one veteran dlineman to address that problem. No one high profile. Maybe just our own free agents and another guy. With that said, I’m going to predict they take Markus Wheaton, WR in Rd1 and then the talking heads on ESPN will complain about taking him too high.
I like WR’s with the ability to go deep and I think Markus can do that. Cheaper than Mike Wallace, especially considering he’s probably going to be tendered for a 1st Rd pick in return.
I also predict they will fill the needs for the Will, a cb, and possibly safety after the fourth round. Meaning it would not shock me if they emphasized offense early. Of course, I could change my mind by late April…
Hmmm…. that seems like a very likely scenario.. very pcjs.
I think Seattle is very aware of how deep this WR group is, and I think the only 3 WRs they’d put a 1st round grade on would be Patterson, Austin, and Allen. Maybe Hopkins. Maybe Swope. Hopkins and Swope have a chance to reach #58, and even if they don’t, outstanding options such as Wheaton or Bailey could last well into the 3rd or 4th rounds.
For the record I am a HUGE fan of DeAndre Hopkins, but I would be a little surprised if Seattle drafted him. Average athlete, not much untapped upside. Outstanding player though.
I think there’s every chance they give Hopkins a round one grade. Not every player Seattle has signed has had incredible untapped upside. He might only be a 4.57 runner but the guy is beyond clutch. Carroll has stated any receiver coming to Seattle will need to get on board with Wilson’s intensity and dedication. That’s Hopkins to a tee. The guy is so competitive. I was sold the minute I saw him shove Xavier Rhodes off the ball in press to make a first down. I was sold the moment he catches a 4th and 16 over the middle to extend a game winning drive. I was sold the moment he outplayed Sammy Watkins to become Clemson’s defining playmaker. And I was sold the moment he stepped on that field at the combine and looked like he was playing a different game to the other receivers. I cannot believe they’ll pass on that but take Cordarrelle Patterson (the opposite of clutch, sloppy hands, can’t run a route) because he runs faster or Keenan Allen because he’s one inch taller (but has smaller hands and wingspan, plus is about 8lbs lighter). I know you don’t agree Kip, but I’m very confident Allen is not running a 4.4. Even if he runs a 4.50 flat, I’m not buying that 0.07 seconds being enough of a difference maker to put him in front of Hopkins.
Rob,
If Hopkins is on the board at 25 (a good possibility the way things are looking) do you think there is a decent chance Seattle picks him? Who would have to be there instead for them to pass, do you think?
As excited as I might get about Austen, the smart me really wants Hopkins for all the reasons you mention. He sounds like an exceptional FOOTBALL PLAYER and not just an exceptional athlete.
I think they’ll be pretty zoned into the defensive line guys at #25. I think there’s a chance if there’s a big rush on the DL early with more guys than expected going. They won’t force it, and I suspect on a list of alternative players at alternative positions, Hopkins would be on the board. He doesn’t stand out for speed, but he’s brilliant in pretty much every other way.
Cool, thanks.
I am not big on Keenan Allen any more. Everything you have seen this off season has show that his play the last year is the real deal and not a fluke. I’d be surprised if he runs a attractive 40 time.
On Hopkins I am hoping we put ourselves in position and I believe JS and PC will through free agency to not be caught with out pants down if all the DT’s are gone by the time our pick comes up and we are forced into another situation where we don’t like the value and cant trade down. I hope to get a good deal in FA on a DT and if it came down to it IF all the guys at value are gone and Hopkins is on the table they make the move. The guy is a true number one from day one. His forty was solid for his size and the rest of his numbers we great. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again he reminds me of a larger Reggie Wayne, and thats not too bad IMOH.
One of the things that has stuck with me from listening to the recent PC interview with John Clayton was PC’s cooments to the effect that he’d like to draft a WR that shares WonderRuss’ commitment to hard work. I don’t remember the exact words, but I took it to mean that PC wants to find a guy that is willing to stay around in the off season and after practices to run routes for RW and to build one of those special bonds that can develop between a WR and a QB. I thought that Tate was that guy, but maybe I’m wrong. In any event, I wish there was a way to assess whether either Austin or Swope has this dedication. To me, this will be one of those intangibles that we amateur draft pickers can’t evaluate very well, but I think it will be a major determinant as to which WR is drafted.
You’ve touched on the piece missing from our view of the puzzle: how does PC assess a players attitude towards the game? Will he put in the extra time, take to RW’s leadership, that kind of thing.
Will Austen do that? Or will his teammate Bailey be a better fit? I really like Hopkins, but does he fit the mold?
All hard to say. But I think you are right: whoever gets drafted at WR in whatever round will have that characteristic.
I see this as the selling point on WR and TE’s… If we only had ears in those combine interview rooms.
As excited as I am about Austin and Wheaton, PC/JS I trust to make the right call. They will find the best fit for RW and our Seahawks. I just hope it is Austin, Reed, Wheaton, Swope maybe…Kaufman…
They will find RW’s new best friend(s) I hope…
it more likely that you find our about a player’s character, learning potential, and work ethic from asking the team trainer, equipment manager, position coaches, and student assitants than you will in a combine interview for which the player has been overly prepped.
Even asking the head coach is likely to be rife with obfuscation. A college head coach has a ton to gain (recruiting power) if yis players are drafted higher than they should be.
Kip – I forgot to thank you for the great post. I like the format — what you think the FO will do vs. what you’d like to see them do. With some other draft analysts, I often find myself wondering if their mock drafts are echoing their hearts or their heads. This way, there’s no doubt.
Thanks. I appreciate the differences in thinking between our front office and myself. To be brutally honest, when I disagree with them they are almost always right. Tapp trade, Wilson trade, Sims trade, releasing Housh (which saved zero money), rating Nate Solder very highly, rating Andy Dalton very highly, passing on Ryan Mallett, etc. I think the only mistake they’ve ever really made was Whitehurst, but without Whitehurst we might not have the Saints playoff game, and we might have Blaine Gabbert here right now instead of Russell Wilson. So even their one inexcusable mistake might have been a good thing.
Kip,
concerning your list, I really like what you found in Abry Jones. Sounds like the kind of guy you pick late and has a chance to really bloom into something. The opposite of drafting a big name DT high in the draft and worrying about him busting out. We have as good a chance as seeing someone like Abry Jones ‘Bust in.’ (I just made that up.)
Nice write up. FA will obviously play a big role in the draft. My question is if we do not resign Branch, what other mid to later round run stuffing d linemen do you see being available? I have been focused on the pass rushers and 3 techs but we may need to find that early down big body that Pete likes to use. Again, thanks to both you and Rob for the great insight.
Brandon Williams
Akeem Spence
Jordan Hill
Sylvester Williams is very comparable to Alan Branch- a jack of all trades DT that would probably make a nice 5-tech too.
Montori Hughes has zero pass rush ability but is extremely strong, reminds me of Red Bryant. If you just want a run specialist DT he’s a good option. John Jenkins is a freak at 359 pounds and reminds me of Bryant also.
Brandon Williams isn’t as good against the run as you’d expect for his 340 pound size, but he’s also a better pass rusher than you’d think. If you coach him into stopping the run better, I could see him as an Alan Branch type 3-tech. I always thought Branch was underrated as a pass rusher, not that he was spectacular but I saw him getting pressure here or there in almost every game.
I’ll have to watch Spence again but I remember being really unimpressed with him the first time I watched him.
Jordan Hill strikes me as a quality 5-tech. He can two gap very well and knows how to shed a block to tackle a running back, but he won’t rack up sacks or tackles for loss. He’s a little like a poor man’s Sharrif Floyd.
Sylvester Williams is a quality DT for sure, but I don’t think he falls to the mid- late rounds.
I like Spence because he’s physical and likes to hit. He moves pretty good for a large body, and he displays a strong motor, rarely giving up on plays even when they’re well past him. I was impressed with his Combine performance, particularly his agility/balance and hustle.
In case you haven’t looked for it yet, here’s his 2012 Draft analysis showing highlights of his best and worst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGE75uXRPqk
And here’s a complete game vs. OSU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSFkwaYPmLo
IMO his biggest strength is leverage. He’s pretty short at 6’1″ and he uses his lower center of gravity to good effect. though he has difficulty shedding blocks at times. He’s at his best when he can hold the LOS while the play develops. He’s at his worst when he has to rush the passer. I think his stance is off. It looks like he sits way back on his heels, making his fist step a little slow.
Haven’t seen B Williams’ tape; I was just impressed with his size, balance and agility at the Combine. But I’ll go check it out now.
I wonder what, if anything, you think of these other late rd DT prospects:
TJ Barnes (GT)
Kwame Geathers (UGA)
Abry Jones (UGA)
Abry Jones had a nice 2011. I included him in my “What I would do” mock and gave my explanation there.
Geathers never really impressed me much.
Barnes has no awareness or technique. Good size, but so-so athlete. UDFA.
My thinking on why Austin would be so perfect for the Seahawks is the added versatility he would bring. First of all he has the speed and quickness to get seperation in the secondary, something we lacked last year. Second, as far as the versatility is concerned he can play running back, wr, kr, and pr. Him in the read option would drive teams crazy. With a guy like that, and a qb like Russ, there are soany different play you could run effectively. Im hoping for Austin at 25.
Austin is fast, but it’s important to remember that WVU very rarely asked him to out run a defense or use his speed to create separation at the second level. Steadman Bailey was their deep guy. Austin was the player taking endless end arounds, jet sweeps, screens and then eventually taking snaps from the backfield. Speed doesn’t always = tons of deep bombs and separation at the second level. And as others have suggested, I wouldn’t like to see him in the read option because it eliminates the dive play. You aren’t asking a 170-180lbs runner to run the dive. So you’re basically saying, either Wilson or Austin run wide, with no option up the middle. That’s pretty easy to defend.
I respectfully disagree with you Mr. Staton. I too think Tavon Austin would be a great fit for Seattle. With the creative mind of Darrell Bevell, as well as Russell Wilson’s ability to buy time, I believe Tavon Austin could be the playmaker Seattle’s been looking for. Though I agree that he wouldnt and shouldnt be used for the dive play, I think putting a 3WR package along with Marshawn in the backfiled would be lethal and would create a lot of hesitation for respective defenses. Seattle needs players that can bring YAC (Yards after catch) to their offense. Not to mention Leon Washington isnt getting younger and Seattle really thrives on the field position game, Tavon could fill a lot of holes and bring a HUGH threat to the slot, perimeter running game, and special teams.
With respectful disagreement, Austin is not an NFL RB in any way shape or form. He might be able to take a hand-off or two, but you’re foolish to put your 175lb first draft pick in situations where he can, and will, get clobbered.
Also, bringing up Washington is a red herring. He’s not getting any younger? So what?!? He had a pro bowl year last season, and is 100% healthy. You act like he’s got only 1 or 2 good returns left in him so we need to replace him now.
What about Lynch and Austin in the backfield at the same time?
I totally agree they will have to get “special” with Austin, but quite honestly, I think that could be a huge deal for the offense going forward. Personally, I think our WR corps is pretty meh, so I am hoping for someone in the top 2 rounds. Austin would definitely be a specialist (with ability to grow into a conventional role), but I think you get a big time contributor day 1.
Rob, who would you like to see WR wise, in the first 2 rounds?
This is was I was going for. Hes not a conventional player so theres no need to limit him in a conventional manner.
I’m not sure how the Lynch/Austin backfield would work. The issue I’ll have in the NFL for Austin in the backfield is everything is going to be bounced, and everyone is that bit quicker. It’ll be tough without the inside run. Personally, the receivers I like in the first two rounds are DeAndre Hopkins, Steadman Bailey, Justin Hunter (in round two, not one), Markus Wheaton and Robert Woods.
I think they could use the Lynch/ Austin backfield well… Run Austin once to get the D to bite, then use play action off of them both! Throw in some misdirection read zone option, and just give the defense too much to have to think about. Bevell can get creative, and even if Austin is catching 5 yard passes, he will make big plays off those catches every game IMO. This IS what we need. Dynamite in a bottle. I just see the teams we play being troubled by Austin. Throw in another catching TE to cover, maybe a 6-5 Kaufman, and we are a hand full on offense. Plus RW gets years to grow with these guys…
How would an Austin + Lynch backfield work? You’d have to take Wilson off the field for that surely. Can’t see it.
It’s just like you can’t run the read option with Austin. There is zero threat on the inside, you take away the dive.
Use it with creativity. Tavon does well when in motion. So use that alignment to put him in motion as I said before. Then you have the D never quite knowing where he ends up.
2-2 personel with I formation. Defense lines up in a run look, motion austin outside, motion a TE wide, play it as a 1-1 personnel and your team is facing a base defense when the defense would prefer to be in nickel.
I love what you can do with Tavon moving from backfield to wide and from wide to bakcfield.
You see, this is what puts me off Austin. We’re already trying to convolute packages and formations to accommodate him. This is what I talk about when discussing manufactured usage. Seattle runs a pretty conventional offense with the occasional wrinkle. I don’t want to spend a first round pick on a wrinkle.
I’m with you Rob. I don’t like trick packages to use a player. Tricks work best when you can use your base personnel like we did with the WR passes. The entire idea of a trick is to fool the other team. How you going to do that if a certain player lets the opposing defense know a trick is happening? Austin would telegraph the play if we used him that way.
I want guys that can line up in base and make plays. That’s your bread and butter.
I agree completely. And hey, I like Austin. He’s a really fun player to watch. If Seattle drafted him, I’d spend a summer daydreaming about how they’d use him and what he could do for the offense. But sitting here in March I’d rather build up the pass rush and add another weapon to the offense that doesn’t require the installation of a package to the playbook. Austin’s incredibly fun to watch, loved watching him in college. Yet I also appreciate what WVU had to do to get the ball in his hands.
Pistol formation with Lynch or TA on the side of RW, and the other lined up behind. SF started to run it quite a bit when LMJ got involved. Looks like a diamond formation.
It could be a potent combo. Hand off threat to Lynch up the gut. Handoff to TA to the outside. Fake dive to Lynch, swing pass to TA. Fake to both, TE up the seam. RW keeper. Quite a few options to run.
My thinking (not saying it’s right) is that Austin can be a complete headache/nightmare for DCs because he can be effective in the backfield and out wide. All it takes is for a Defense to hesitate and Lynch grinds off 6-8 yards, or TA could bust a long one. Not to mention, I think it really opens up the middle of the field for the TE. LBers will start drifting where ever TA goes or start cheating to stop lynch. I think it’s an awesome way to enhance the power run game, whilst keeping another dimension on the field that we don’t currently have.
Love it MJ. Imagination is key here, not held ideals…
How about taking the read-option one more step and make it a triple option, with a dive option, a QB keep, or a pitch option? Like Navy runs. I’m not saying this is would be our base offense, but it sure would maximize what we could get from RW, Lynch, and Austin on the field at the same time.
It’d be a forced gimmick.
Another thought — at the end of the season, PC talked about variations on the read-option that are apparently in the playbook, but haven’t yet seen the light of day. I would not be surprised in the least if some of those plays add a pitch option and Tavon would be perfect in that role.
I’m not sure the kind of variations he was talking about involved needing to spend a first round pick on a specific player. I don’t know. The fact we’re trying to find ways to get him involved is the exact reason I’m not too keen. I’m not sure I’ll look forward to competing against him if the Rams take him at #16, but I’m not desperate to need to dig out the Tavon Austin package in Seattle. If we want speed, just take Wheaton later.
There is sooooo much more to being a good WR than quickness/agility. Clearly Austin has that in spades. I just don’t see a whole lot beyond that. Good, but not great hands, small stature limits him to the slot, plus I wonder how well he can take a hit from an NFL LB/DB.
Through the middle of last season I was of the opinion that SEA needed a marquee WR to take it to the next level, especially after the 1st 49er game. But as the season went on, RW started gelling with the WRs, and by most measures, our WR core is pretty good. I think adding depth and talent at WR is wise, but I just do not see it as the one thing that will turn us from a wild card into the division champs, and thus do not see it as our primary need in R1.
When I hear the comparison’s of Austin to “Percy Harvin” and “Wes Welker” it gets me so excited. Then when a I hear the comparissons of Markus Wheaton to “Mike Wallace” that excites me too. With Wheaton’s speed has he been used for pr/kr before? Did any of you see the video clip of Wheaton totally faking out Trufant? Wheaton looked soooo good and shiftly. I think it was from the Sr. bowl practice? Saw it last week on Fieldgulls.com.
I know Wheaton has returned kicks before but I don’t believe he was the primary returner. Those duties went to Poyer (CB…projected second rounder). It’s not that I don’t want to see the Hawks dline solidified with a really talented young dlineman (or two), but I have to wonder if they believe they may have two promising 3 techs already on the roster in Jaye Howard and Greg Scruggs. They could also resign Branch and Jones and then just add one veteran run stopping dlineman to round things out. Maybe add someone who can play Leo too. Of course is someone like Louteteli drops you have to think long and hard about him.
Aside from that happening I would love to see them load up the offense. WR/TE/Speed RB/Olineman…
I’m just tired of this idea that you need a number 1 WR. I believe you fit your scheme to the personal that you have, not the other way around. Lets face it the NFL is becoming more like college football and I think where the league is, at this very moment Tavon Austin would thrive. He’s not going to be a top five wideout, but he will bring you production! Big recievers are very useful if you have an inaccurate QB, but with Wilson’s amazing arm I think tavon and him would be scary. I’m not saying having a Calvin Johnson isn’t great, but at the same time look at the power house offenses in the league. New England, Green Bay, and New Orleans don’t posses a number 1 WR in terms of a guy who has speed, size, and strength yet they’re productive because they have dynamic players such as Wes Welker, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, Darren Sproiles who can make things happen. Tavon is crafty, quick, fast, and can play a variety of different spots. The game is evolving and I think our thoughts on how we look at players/draft/football should too.
I would love to see them pick up a Nickell Robey, or Tyrann Mathieu to replace Marcus Trufant in the nickel formation. Also what do all of you think about Jordan Reed from Florida? We definitely need to incorporate the Tight End more.
Here is me and bro’s personal ranks for WR’s after doing our annual detailed impression of a scout job that we do every year. We also did the DT’s so far. DE’s are next on our list.
For the Hawks this is our order and ranking if anybody cares to see: (Quick descriptions/reasons here)
1st round pick if we go that route:
1. Cordarrelle Patterson – 6’3, 205 4.4
-Love this kid. Falling in love like we did W. Mercules last year, Mallett the year before, and CJ Spiller and Fred Thomas before that. Huge playmaker with speed. We see stud #1 wide, but IF he starts off slow in the NFL the worst case will be that he produces right away with Kick and Punt. Love pretty much everything about his game and measurables. He’s our fav!
Lots of reasons why, but I won’t go into detail right now.
2. Tavon Austin – 5’9, 175 4.34
-Not the size we wanted for the Hawks. But, we think he’ll be great and healthy for a number of reasons. Can’t pass on his playmaking/speed up. Like Patterson, both would bring huge big play for us and with R. Willson extending plays they will be big. We feel both guy’s will seperate well, and where we lack.
3. Keenan Allen – 6’3, 205 speed ?
-Love his measurables. Need to see how fast he is? Seems like all he did was slants. But, we think it was the sucky QB that didn’t do him any favors. He can do everything though.
Seems more the possesion wide though, to where the first two seem the playmakers that I’d prefer.
—2nd round rank OR tier drop—
4. Justin Hunter – 6’4, 200 4.4
-Big, Fast, can go deep. He could be better then Patterson as they were on the same team and had better numbers for an extra year. But, not as explosive. Drops a lot. Force fed a bit. Still like him.
5. DeAndre Hopkins – 6’1, 210 4.57
-Plays big and can get deep. Faster then combine speed, but still a concern. Production good.
I prefer the top 4 by a pretty good margin though. Little smaller and speed? I’d go a different route if it meant him in the first.
6. Stedman Bailey – 5’10, 195 4.52
Same team as T. Austin, and had better stats. 25 TD’s in fact. Catches well, Good routes, Goes deep, Gets TD’s, everything looks good. His size and speed are not exactly what we want.
—3rd round rank OR tier drop—
7. Quinton Patton – 6’0, 202 4.53
Like him the most of this tier group. Weak Conf. and little thin frame. Speed a little concern too.
8. Aaron Dobson – 6’3, 203 4.4/5?
Something about him I’m not sure about. Seperation seems like the biggest issue, but also very low production stats. But, lots of good things too.
9. T. Williams – 6’2, 201 4.52
—4th round rank OR tier drop (Speed Tier, but smaller guy’s with some ??) —
10. Ryan Swope – 6’0, 205 4.34
Love him. We see the next J. Nelson or W. Welker.
11. Markus Wheaton – 5’11, 183 4.45
12. Kenny Stills – 6’1, 194 4.38 – We like him, but there seems like a lot more questions, issues, red flags starting with him and on down the list.
13. Josh Boyce – 5’11, 200 4.38
—5th round rank OR tier drop —
14. Mark Harrison – 6’3, 230 4.46 – We have a exta mark for this guy, as we like him.
15. Corey Fuller – 6’2, 204 4.43
16. Marcus Wilson – 6’3, 194 4.5
17. Robert Woods – 6’1, 190 4.51 – Thought I would like him more, but not really. Production good.
—6th & 7th round rank OR tier drop —
18. A. Mellette – 6’3, 210 4.54
19. Dan Buckner – 6’4, 212 4.47 – We have a exta mark for this guy, as we like him.
20. Marcus Davis – 6’4, 232 4.56 –
21. D. Rodgers – 6’3, 210 4.52 – Drug issues
Not really guy’s, but they have something to offer: TJ Moe, M. Goodwin, K. Thompkins
Thanks for taking the time to share this, Hawkfin.
Thank you for this list! I think at least one of those people you just listed off will be a Seahawks come this April.
Also! Rob, what do you think of the possibility that Pete and John avoid going pass-rushing DT in the first three rounds? Here is why: We might have our Jason Jones replacement on the roster right now with Greg Scruggs, and if Dan Quinn can motivate Jaye Howard, we might have all the pass rush we need.
How likely do you think this scenario would be?
I think Jaye Howard has a fight on his hands to make the roster in 2013. To not even be active at a time when Seattle was a little short at DT was unacceptable. He needed to make sure he was involved. I’m not sure Dan Quinn can do a great deal there. We’ll see. Scruggs… I like the guy but is he the answer to replace Jones? Not exclusively. I think he remains part of the rotation but not an exclusive feature. I think the only chance they don’t go DT in rounds 1-3 will be if they sign someone in free agency. Right now there’s a great big fat hole that needs to be filled. It’s one of the few positions where the Seahawks are losing a starter (Branch) to free agency.
After some chat out here, Swope and Mark Harrison are looking good! Brandon Kaufman looked pretty good for a late round or UDFA move… Tall and smooth…
I like the list. Wheaton in the 4th seems late. If he was there at our R3 pick, doubt they would pass…
Do you have a list for TE’s Hawkfin? THX
NP and thanks Rob. First time back since last off season. Wild fun ride last year with our postseason run. Looking forward for big things this season. 🙂
Wanted to give more details, but already got so long.
Trying to catch up with all the work done already on this site too. Some good stuff already out there!
Hawkfin, that is really cool. Would you mind reposting the DT, I would enjoy reading that to. A general question but why would it be a bad reason to resign Branch? With him we all know our D ranking. He is a known so we know exactly what he can and cant do. So the next question is if you resign Branch, what do you do about the Jones postion? Not that I would be thrilled but it would take pressure off in the draft, what say you?
Also what are your thoughts on that big guy (cant think his name Bryant maybe) FA DT from Oakland. Yes he just got busted and has that hilarious pic but the guy went to Harvard on an Academemic Scholarship ( so the article I read states).
“Academic”
will we ever have a spell checker Rob?
Rob, with marquis Wilson 2″ taller and about 6 lbs heavier but same 40 time as woods. Do you think that will have any bearing on drafting Wilson over woods rob?
Not necessarily. After all – Carroll recruited Woods. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Woods was drafted by Seattle. Carroll made a point of going to see his press interview at the combine and looked like a proud father listening in.
Possible scenario:
Free Agents Picked Up: DT (3-tech) — Starks, TE — Davis
1st Round: pass rusher (LEO, DT, or 5-tech) or pocket crusher 3-tech — Mingo, Carradine, Jones or Lotuleile, Richardson
2nd Round: Outside WR (Starting X) — Rogers, Allen, or Hunter
3rd Round, 4th Round, 5th Round, 5th Round: Nickel Corner, QB, TE, WOLB, or another pass rusher
6th Round: PK
7th Round: High ceiling project OT, WR, BPA
Hey Stuart,
Thanks
I posted my DT’s in the Sheldon Richardson link……. Sheldon is my clear cut #1 and it’s not that close to me. The others I’m not all that impressed with for a 1st round pick. In fact, I’m down on the top couple that are always ranked high. There are two others I do like in the first though.
Anyway, I would like to resign Branch. OR Jones… I’d like to get one of those back for sure.
I think I’m against the dude in Oakland or any aging free agent vet unless it’s a stud. I actually think we need to get “younger” at DT and DE that we can groom. Somebody that can really cause havic up the middle for rushing the QB. I’m still holding hope for Irvin, but DE also maybe. I think DT might be first.
SO, I do think we need to draft a DT pretty early. 1st – 3rd round.
I think we should be looking for WR, DT, DE in the first three rounds. The other position I think we should be looking at is a LB. Either a LB that can shut down TE’s/coverage guy or maybe even a MLB stud that clogs the middle, and allows our other two to go outside more.
TE would be that last position of my choice.
But, the first three should be addressed in the draft in whatever order based off best talent.