Possible Seahawks first rounder?
Tony Pauline is reporting that the Seahawks sent Steve Hutchinson to work out Joe Tippmann and John Michael Schmitz recently:
Hall of Famer Steve Hutchinson, now an offensive line consultant for the Seahawks, met with Tippmann earlier this week as Seattle debates which center grades higher, the Wisconsin junior or Schmitz.
Tippmann could be the Seahawks’ selection at 20, the same pick the Lions used to select Ragnow in 2018. Seattle will also look to trade down from 20 with the hopes Tippmann or Schmitz are available later. I’m told discussions are already taking place to move that selection.
If they are able to trade down from pick 20, Schmitz could be their guy. If he happens to be available to Seattle at pick 37, it would be manna from heaven for the franchise.
It’s an interesting report and chimes with a lot of what we’ve been discussing recently. When I appeared on the ‘5th Year Option’ podcast this week I said I was going to mock Schmitz to Seattle in every mock between now and draft. Twenty-four hours later I went back on that, because it was just too tempting to have the Seahawks trade down below the Giants, with New York selecting Schmitz at #26.
My focus so far has been on Schmitz and Luke Wypler. Both ran good short shuttles (4.53 for Wypler, 4.56 for Schmitz). That is crucial for the scheme. They both have wrestling backgrounds. They aren’t too tall and a year ago Pete Carroll mentioned at the owners meeting they wanted a shorter center for leverage purposes.
I hadn’t really considered Tippmann for that reason. He’s 6-6. He also didn’t do any combine or pro-day testing. However, he was listed on Bruce Feldman’s freaks list and is reportedly capable of running a remarkable 4.31 shuttle. If you’re wondering why he might be considered as high as #20 — there’s your reason.
According to Dane Brugler, “(Tippmann’s) teammates describe him as a “calm” communicator at center. Relates to every player in the locker room and NFL scouts and coaches give him strong character reviews.”
It sounds like a lot of fans are going to get what they want. It appears the Seahawks are going to make a point of drafting a center for the long term, sorting out the position once and for all.
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I know defense is a concern for this team. However, it makes too much sense to draft your QBOTF along with the future at center. Two positions that you can lock down for the long term. Having those two players grow and develop communication would be huge.
The year after get book end tackles…
Yes. Let’s create the best possible conditions for a young QB to develop. I think the best long-term move, if we draft a QB high, is to give him the best line and coaching possible. It should outweigh defensive needs.
If it plays out with a QB and C as our first two picks, much of the fanbase will be up in arms, however, I think there are plenty of quality defensive prospects we could pick with our second and third round picks (potentially an extra 3rd or 4th with a trade from 20). I would be stoked with the outcome.
However it plays out, the Hawks are in an incredible position to come away with a great draft, and that is something to be excited about.
There’s a type of fan out there (and every team has them) who regularly makes definitive statements based on the flimsiest of evidence. It’s often something like “The Seahawks are definitely winning at least 14 games this year,” or “I guarantee the Seahawks make it to the conference championship this year.” But it can also be, “The Seahawks are a defensive lineman away from contending for a Superbowl,” or “Anthony Richardson is guaranteed to be a bust.”
They can keep making statements like this year after year because they have an uncanny ability to quickly forget all the times they’re proven wrong. But every once in a while, one of their predictions will come true, and they’ll spend the next five years reminding you about it.
So I agree with you that many will be “up in arms” if the draft goes a certain way for the Seahawks. And that will last for about one news cycle. Then they’ll start making new outlandish predictions, probably in direct contradiction to their old ones.
It’s one thing I appreciate about Rob (and much of this community). Rob doesn’t guarantee anything. He deals in potential, risk, and probability based on observable data and previous results. So he never says that Jalen Carter couldn’t possibly work out for someone — just that he’s far too big a risk at #5 and doesn’t fit their current emphasis on character. And he backs it up with coherent and compelling arguments.
But that takes work and discipline. It’s easier just to have a hot take and defend it emotionally.
People think Rob hates Carter.
But Rob regularly talks about how if he could pull it all together he would be something special.
Then he consistently mocks him no lower than Philly at ten which would be a great spot for him and curiously matches his own ( carter’s) statements about being a top ten pick and making buckets of cash.
I was positively giddy about the prospect of getting Carter
Then I gained more information
And now my opinion is shaped from a position of knowledge
I wish he was a clean prospect. Forget that, I wish he simply had a few minor character concerns. I’d be dancing round the room at getting him if that were the case.
I’ve explained why I think what I think. If I’m wrong, I’ll own it.
I can’t share everything I know because it’s not appropriate, IMO, to share everything. I’ve tried to steer people the best I can. Sadly that’s led to the nonsense that I ‘have a QB agenda’ (when I keep saying Will Anderson is likely their top choice at #5) or that I ‘hate’ Carter.
Someone on Field Gulls even said I was a racist and that’s why I didn’t want Carter
Racist? That’s a stupid comment. Let’s think, what racial characteristics do the majority of players in the NFL share? Rob has been very objective and analytical about Carter. There are things in his background that make it a risk, and maybe not a very smart risk, to draft him. The Seahawks may do it anyway. We don’t know
It was a stupid comment from clearly a stupid person
It’s hard to imagine in the NFL being ‘a player away’ ’cause injury, scheme fit and/or the transition from college to pros can be brutal even if the talent is there. Always a red flag when someone uses that trope. I suppose QB could be an exception to the rule. Gotta love exceptions…
Im one of those people who with my limited game knowledge can see what a player like Carter can do to a defense ..forcing teams to gameplan around him and keeping linabackers clean
HOWEVER my banter is just that and admit I have far less knowledge and info then you or aome will forget
I see the Seahawks Bring him in for 1 top 30 visit and speculate they see the same thing..???
.
but who knows I look at it as great conversation and good hearted debate
and just appreciate the forum you have created.
I take this as confirmation that the C position is deep this year and they can get a decent one in R2.
I’d rather get the best one..
he can grow w our new QB and be a cornerstone for 12-15 years
Define “best”. I have seen strong cases for JMS, Wypler, and Tippman. One of them will be available in round 2. Grab AR at 5. Take Ade Ade at 20.
Been starting to think Ade Ade at 37 is the more realistic slot?
Either Ade, McDonald, or K. White.
Either really. Just more that ade ade at #20 feels high since he’s mocked about a half round lower all over the place.
I don’t think the mocks are right. His tape is solid and his testing is off the charts. Teams will want to mold him.
Maybe. I wouldn’t hate it. Ade ade then center.
My very early uninformed guess is he’s high second round. Our own Mafe had decent tape, a great senior bowl and was a great tester and went in the second.
But I also think Brents in the middle high second is going to happen. So what do I know….not for Seattle btw. I just think some team is going to fall in love with him.
Nickname: Kool Ade..
I’m happy w any of the 3.. best is relative obviously but I just am through w stopgaps and projects
At one point, Michigan’s Oluwatimi was talked about as the best center in college football. I realize he probably lacks the athleticism to fit Seattle’s scheme, but for some teams who run more power-based schemes, he might be considered a top C prospect too. It seems like there are many quality centers this year.
I wouldn’t say it’s deep by any stretch.
But as per the below I’d rather not get cute, and they draft the best player they think fits what they want the best. If that’s R1 or R2 so be it.
A center does make a lot of sense, would solidify the offensive line giving the Seahawks possibly the best offensive line of the PC era.
What I would like to see in the first two rounds is a QB, C, DL and a WR3. Then fill out their roster with the remaining picks.
People forget that having that rookie quarterback afforded the Seahawks having the highest paid OL the year they won the Super Bowl. That line + Zach Miller is what drove the entire Offense itself. the elite D covered for a run driven, opportunistic, stingy offense that focused on ball control, smash running, and balancing the limiting of T/O’s while maximizing explosive plays. Quietly, they seem to be recreating that. And if we can build solid, complimentary D, then these days that is good enough to make a run. That’s why I feel we will draft Richardson or Stroud, if available, and build around the him for version 2.0 of Seahawks w/ a rookie QB.
I’m bout that action Boss!
Just to send the fans base wild, imagine Downs lasting to 37 and goin QB, C, WR. I don’t really use twitter but I’d sign up just to see the reaction. A beer, the draft, and meltdown sounds like a good night.
Then runningback at 52
BPA is the way!
Grab the best one in the first round. No projects. I’m a big fan of Tippman. Great athlete! Extra height shouldn’t be a problem since our new qb will be 6’4” :).
Go hawks
My thoughts exactly.
And on the fans want D picks, (that sounds odd lol) we have 3 studs on all 3 levels from FA signings.
I would caution that studs or not they still need:
A safety to run three safety sets
About three dlinemen to resemble a rotation
And somehow someway a LB because father time vs first round bust is a pretty risky combination for the LB room right now.
QB/C round 1, perhaps trade back and there are 9 other picks to fill out a D-line with 2nd/3rd round particularly littered with good choices. Seattle is premier at locating DBs and safety’s in the mid-late rounds. Sydney Brown, Marte Mapu look like Seahawk S’s
Seattle is premier at locating defensive backs and safeties in the mid-late rounds?! Because they drafted Kam and Sherm more than a decade ago and hit on Woolen last year?!
Mark Legree
Mike Tyson
Lano Hill
Trey Flowers
Tedric Thompson
Ryan Green
Tharold Simon
Ugo Amadi
All those guys were drafted after the third and didn’t turn out too well. Seattle also drafted Walter Thurmond, who was quite good but left, and S Griffin, who really wasn’t very good. More misses than hits for an entire decade.
Unless you think that the defensive backfield – on average since Pete came – has been sub-par, then I don’t get the criticism. They also take on throw aways like DJ Reed, Ryan Neal – and way back to UDFA Browner, Maxwell is a 6th round choice – and develop them to max potential to the point they want big contracts, and then they move on.
I would say they got plenty of return vs investment on Ugo and Tre. When you add in cutdown trades and other cheap veteran adds, they’ve done great acquiring cheap cbs. It’s really been the day three safeties who haven’t worked out.
They also had Byron Maxwell and Deshawn Shead who were excellent CBs.
Man I wish I had your confidence about us being set at all three levels of the defense. I just can’t look at a truly awful D-Line that has lost Al Woods, QJeff, Poona Ford, Shelby Harris and Irvin while adding Jones and Reed and say “job done”.
Likewise can’t see losing Brooks and replacing him with Wagz and say that they’ve gotten markedly better.
Well to be fair, all those players we got rid of were a part of a pretty crappy defense…
I think “we” i.e fans – get ourselves into knots that JS/PC don’t have a plan or don’t know what they’re doing.
Losing the majority of the defensive line, which was stopping nobody that ran at them, isn’t a problem. There are several able big lineman in this draft, which we have a slew of picks in, and depending on the draft, the remaining FA’s will start getting contracts and we’ll have the front line sorted.
I’ve seen this movie before – consternation pre-draft about the roster is a waste of time.
Here’s the rub.
They need a lot of shots at dline because bluntly they suck at drafting front four/ front three players.
Agree Peter. Take Ade Ade who for his size can play inside and out, then pick some big boys like Roy LSU, Young ALA later on. Poona probably coming back, A Robinson a FA that can fill.
I like those three quite a bit come draft day.
Rumors have Frank Clark maybe coming back too. He was a 4-3 DE here so I don’t know about the fit. And we know the team has to manufacture cap room from somewhere in order to keep signing FA’s.
They weren’t serious rumours
The problem with this is that Dremont Jones did nothing, nada, zilch since Bradley Chubb got traded. He had a 51.8 PFF rating much due to his run D. We overpaid on 90% bust potential. Not peacock grade, but close.
The idea of drafting a couple of DL prospects and be done isn’t working since 2017. It got worse and worse instead.
Let’s be honest here. This FO and HC are running out of ideas.
When I think ‘Wisconsin’, I think Oline & RB.
When I think ‘Iowa’, I think TE.
When I think ‘SEC’, I think everyone.
When I think ‘Oregon’, I puke 🤮
Starting to think DB and slowly a few other positions for Iowa. But I get your drift.
Oregon….having lived in Eugene but north of it now I’m starting to get way on board with what Oregon St is doing.
The ducks fans are fun. They roll out hard on game day filling up I-5 with ridiculous clown car paint jobs, and wild ass RV’s. ( caravans…for my friends in the UK) they do weird crap like my neighbors where the get their roofs rushing led with green and giant yellow “o’s” on them.
But….there’s a tiny contingent that is delusional about how good they are…..
You’re not going to be able to draw effective generalizations about any team’s fanbase by crediting the ravings of the prepubescent fringe. I’d ignore them wholly, were I you.
As for me, I can only go by what I hear from the network of Oregon fans, writers, broadcasters, podcasters, etc., that surrounds me, and I’m gathering that the fanbase is broadly frustrated with the trajectory of the program (and the conference, LOL). I mean, could it be any more obvious how far behind the elite SEC teams the Ducks have fallen since Chip Kelly departed? 49-3 offers a fair measure. Fans typically talk themselves into a state of hopefulness, just as Seahawks fans are doing now vis a vis their purgatorial ownership situation, but the Oregon faithful have little reason to think they’re closing the gap with the big boys, given Duck recruiting still lags far behind. (247 Sports currently has Oregon at a single tentative five-star prospect to Alabama’s firm nine, for instance). And having all the stars in the world means squat, anyway, when a franchise’s coaching carousel continues to whirr out of control, year after year after year. Oregon just lost its wunderkind O-coordinator this past year, and chances are good it’ll be replacing its inept D-coordinator next year. Dan Lanning himself was barely halfway through his first season when he started looking up Auburn’s skirt, one frisky foot already out the door. Saban University, it is not. (The Alabama machine, by contrast, matriculates new coordinators in a steady, calculated rhythm.) Oregon fans who have been around for awhile are quite aware of their program’s precarious footing, though they do often try to find the upside in their situation. Fanhood shouldn’t compound life’s negativities.
I will say, Uncle Phil and his cronies have at least tried to keep West Coast football relevant (they donate to Oregon State, too), but the Wack-12 has firmly established itself as irrevocably abysmal. The conference is on life support for a reason. Outside of Oregon, Stanford, and USC (and to a lesser degree, Washington and Utah), nobody else has done s**t on a national level in more than 20 years…
…As for being “way on board with what Oregon St is doing,” I definitely can see them advancing in the conference pecking order—once the Mountain West has picked them up.
Just a guess but oregon state will become Utah in the team that produces enough talent, has enough try hard, and ruins teams seasons in about one more year.
They are fun to watch. Are ever so slightly getting relevant and their coach can probably be a Whittingham and stay for life.
Lol
I agree
What do you mean, Jabroni? What is your claim/observation?
It warms my heart that Steve Hutchinson is affiliated with the Seahawks once again. There’s some healing taking place.
Agreed, love to see it 💯
I remember the old Seattle PI forum absolutely blowing up when the Hutch thing went down. It got UGLY.
Never let him leave
Pay him whatever he wants
We need him analysing O-liners for the rest of his working life
Honestly….I’m here for it.
The highest graded linemen last year for us was a guy Hutchinson gave his seal of approval. 1 for 1 so far. It’s currently a higher barring average than nearly any other player to round ratio.
I understand the rams blocking scheme and “positional value,” but who cares. Year after year I hear about winning the trenches. After making a dog’s dinner out of the oline for almost a decade sure would be nice to have the line almost locked up for some time.
Short of not drafting centers to play centers, Seattle has spent more first round stock on olinemen than short armed corners. At #20…not my tippy top favorite move but when it’s over in a few years will it have mattered at #20 vs. Say #26 or so? Probably not.
John just said on his show that it doesn’t matter how you got here, it matters what you make of the opportunity at hand. #20, R3, udfa? whatevs. I’ll be stoked if their guy pans out.
I’ve been staunchly in the camp of – do not draft a center prior to Round 3 unless you think they are Creed Humphrey.
Maybe the Hawks think that one of these guys is, or maybe the value of Centers is increasing.
Seeing them in person, Tippmann is physically impressive, looks like he could move a bus by himself, also very agile. I’ve thought he looked the best, and my friend who was a D1 Center considers him to be a top 3 Center (with JMS and Olu).
Hutch being involved has fully messed with my mind. this is a big twist.
Why center in the third?
Just me but I think up to the draft there’s too much talk of relative value.
Then about 2.5 years later as we move away if your picks work I tend to find a foggy-ness of selection and whether it mattered or not where they were selected.
I’m just fascinated fairly endlessly with draft redos.
Forget woolen. If lucas had gone late first last year to any team. You think that Dan base would care by now if he showed out like he did?
I get it, it is what McCloughan said: “draft starters”.
I was furious, nearly inconsolable, after Mafe and K9, that Lucas was thill there and we hadn’t grabbed him. That is Pickens for me this year.
I’m not a crazy stats guy when it comes to the draft, probably because I use stats so much in my career.
Guards and Centers are best picked after Round 3, unless you think they are superstars. TE are much the same. It is a matter of what the position does and what the separation in the prospect means.
For every task there is a tool.
I’m all for fixing the interior OL. They’ve been terrible there for years and I think it’s really impacted the offense.
But it’s weird that after they’ve essentially ignored center for 10 years and now this is the year they look at the centers and say we can’t leave the draft without one. I hope they haven’t painted themselves into a corner where they need to take a center and multiple DT guys early regardless of how the board falls. Being opportunistic and taking guys like Damien Lewis and Abe Lucas in the 3rd round is preferable to drafting the same level of player in the 1st. They’ve passed on some pretty nice C prospects in rounds 2-4 the last number of years. If a guy like Michael Mayer is still there at 20 (I think he’s going to be very good for a long time) and they go any of these centers I will have a case of the sads. Really felt like they nailed the 2022 draft because they went BPA and let the draft fall to them. Many years they’ve passed on really good players to take positions of need.
Strangely I don’t think this team is currently constructed as bpa as much as we would like it to be.
“Do not draft a center prior to Round 3 unless you think they are Creed Humphrey.” –LCH
But the Seahawks didn’t think even Creed Humphrey was worth drafting prior to Round Three, did they? If they see any of this year’s crop as equivalent to Humphrey, they will wait until the third round or later (unless they’ve changed their method of center evaluation).
You’d like to think taking Dee Eskeridge over Humphrey taught them a lesson.
Bit of a bummer that Sedrick Van Pran didn’t declare. Would have snapped him up at #20 no questions asked. I am excited for the possibility of adding a nimble brain at C. Iirc when Unger was in calling protections our offense averaged 7 ppg more than when he was out hurt. It would be a tremendous help to a new (or used) QB to have that help up front, simplifying the QB’s job a touch.
100%
Would’ve taken Van Pran at #20 no questions asked
I like the idea of 3 possible early centers for Seattle to consider. And adding a later round guy to compete with Evan Neal is still an option.
I also like the idea of adding trading back from 20 to add a little draft capital. There are a LOT of Day 2 guys I like and having extra draft capital makes it easier for JS to move up to get a guy.
I don’t like using the first 2 picks on offense. Honestly, if they draft AR at 5 (or 3), I will be happy no matter who else they pick.
But, this is Year 2 of the switch to 3-4. They used Year 1 to identify which players could make the scheme switch. They moved on from all 3 of their D-Line starters and 2 of their 4 LBs, plus one other LB is injured and won’t start the season. And they moved on from most of their depth players too.
They added 2 DEs, and 2 ILBs in FA, and you can pencil in Mafe/Taylor as the other OLB/Edge to go with Nwosu. And, I think it is reasonable to find a 3rd round/Day 3 NT. But, they have 4 “starter” LBs going into the last year of their contract and zero D-line depth or ILB depth until Brooks is healthy.
They need to get younger/faster/cheaper/hungrier in the front 7 and the draft is the way to do that. I was hoping for at least 2 DL in rounds 1-2 plus a NT. Plus at least 1 LB in Round 3/4. We added a new pass rush coach. We have to give him something to work with!
Tipmann would be appealing to Seattle for this alone:
“He committed a month later, becoming the fifth recruit to join the Badgers’ 2019 class.
Several schools (Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Purdue) continued to recruit him, but Tippmann stayed loyal to Wisconsin and signed in the early signing
period. Part of the Badgers’ recruiting pitch was that they would train him at tackle, guard and center, and Tippmann was open to playing any position”.
Could conceivably play guard year one while Evans starts at center
I’d love us to get a C, and even if 20 seems a bit of a high price for one, if we nail one to start for us in the next 10 years, we won’t care that we had to draft him so high.
We drafted Max Unger in the middle of Round Two and that worked out well.
For me the opportunity cost of a C at 20 matters. The player has to be really really good to justify it. There are only 6 centers in the NFL that will have a bigger cap hit in 2023 than Will Dissly for example. You can get a really solid center for Dissly money. Of the top 10 centers by PFF last year, 7 are in their 30s. Only two of them (Linderbaum and Creed) are on their first contract.
If they end up with a solid but not top-10 center using a first round pick that’s a whiff.
100% agree with this thinking. I like how you provided data, not just “i wish/I’m ok with”. Draft, like any decision making, is about opportunity cost (ie, value), not just wishes. Even bpa is rarely if ever divorced completely from roster needs or position value.
I would be surprised if they drafted C in first round.
Just hope Seattle doesn’t compound their mistake of drafting that bum Eskridge over Humphrey by overdrafting a C in place of a fine WR, or DE/LB.
I guess if they get a great C it will be ok, but pass rushers are harder to find and there should be one at 20.
Want good pass rushers? Draft a lockdown CB at 20.
Or not old, injured, out of place dline.
As much as I love to see fellow Badgers in Seahawks uniforms, I hope they can wait until 37 to make such a pick. Tippmans size and skill means he could play different positions on the line, which we all know would fit into Pete’s plan to convert him into a TE eventually.
Tippman at #37 has been my want for quite some time. I know the Wypler and JMS get more play here but I want a big, bad, mauling OL and Tippman is just more intimidating than the other two. I also wouldn’t mind if we got Dawand Jones and converted him to OG.
I was big on Dawand Jones—even as high as #20—until the medical flag rumors started swirling. They’re just rumors as of now, but Jones has started to drop on enough mocks to make me think something’s there.
He only gets talked about more because Pete said they wanted to go shorter at Center for more leverage.
I’m just glad Hutchinson is helping with O-line evaluation.
I would be happy with any of the top 3-4 centers, QBs, RBs, WRs, and DL. It would still be a BPA approach, but emphasizing those specific positions. For example, if we have a choice at #20 to select the BPA-EDGE (say McDonald) or the BPA-DL(say Ade Ade), and everything being equal, we can better afford to do without the EDGE because we already have 4 good ones on the roster while we have a huge hole at DL. The importance of having a top Center cannot be overstated, so it makes sense to address that position early. Pair that with maybe McFadden or some converted OT at OG, a 3rd WR, and a one-two punch at RB, and we might have a pretty elite offense, while still having plenty of ammo for improving the D.
KJ Wright said absolutely “no” on Carter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkNA1xEdODE
Sherm & Diggs are Pro Carter. Although I consider Sherm a bitter clown, so it’s of some concern to me for a present Seahawk to be linked to him.
Sherman rather unironically thinks the solution is just put him up near the vmac and baby sit him.
I always scratch my head when national personalities talk about babysitting someone chosen at #5 who will have $30 million guaranteed at his disposal.
Short of putting language in his contract, the guy can do whatever he wants, spend on whatever he wants and hang out with whomever he wants.
The franchise should not be in the daycare business. Period.
And do you really want your top players being stressed out babysitters, when they need to be worrying about their own game and training? The whole idea is laughably ridiculous.
For me, if Jalen Fatass requires being babysat because hes too immature to conduct himself in a manner that is productive for his own well being and others around him, then let him be some other teams problem. This clown aint worth the #5 pick.
This is a classy blog run by a classy gentleman. We all should be able to make our opinions known without juvenile ad hominem attacks.
Meh, Im just so over the hype and delusional worship of this guy among so many in the fanbase. The guy’s conditioning is so bad, but yet so many will defend the guy no matter what. The fact that this guy needs to be babysat speaks volumes to me.
These are grown men you can’t babysit them 24/7. If they have bad judgement or impulse control no amount of babysitting works. They said that about Josh Gordon and how did that work out.
I wonder how Sherman would have reacted to being “baby-sat” when he was a young player?
There is something to be said for a guy with a rough upbringing and family life that wants to change being given the opportunity to have a strong team support network around them. It’s really hard to move on from family and friends that put you in bad situations. Plenty of guys with rough pasts that have gone through the Seahawks organization and become really good.
But if the guy doesn’t want to change there is no amount of babysitting that is going to help him. It’s ludicrous to suggest that babysitting is all he needs to keep him out of trouble.
Sherman volunteering everyone but himself to babysit too…
lol. Woody Allen: “I have nothing against death. I just don’t want to be there when it happens.”
In his interview with Quandre Diggs, Richard Sherman shows no bitterness whatsoever toward the Seahawks. His pro-Jalen Carter stance is simply weakly premised—though he sketches it out in rather humorous fashion. I got a chuckle out of it, even though I despise all this Bobby the Diaper Man logic.
Really hope Tony Pauline is way off on this. The idea of the Hawks using a 1st round pick on a pure Center makes me want to throw up honestly. This is least premium position on a roster. All you really want from a Center game in game out is not to be noticed for a bad snap or to be a liability in the run/ pass blocking.
Sure an elite Center is nice to have like Kelce or Humphries but the difference between an elite guy and average guy when it comes to deciding the outcome of a game is neligable.
Really hope they go for premium positions on those first 4 picks (QB, DL, WR, CB) perhaps even a TE if you can get one of the elite guys as a 3rd receiving option.
Wait till Rd 3-7 to address (LB, S, RB, G and C)
I expect they would trade that #20 back a good measure before using it on a center, but any pick in the #30-50 range would be fine for a plus guy with positional versatility. Overall, I agree with your draft philosophy here, but you’re exaggerating the unimportance of the center position. The difference between Jason Kelce and league average is dramatic.
Perhaps you are right but can you name the starting Center on any Super Bowl team without looking it up before this past season? Have you ever watched a game and thought man that snap in the 3rd Q and his run block was the difference in the game? My point is the only time you notice a Center is if they screw up or get blown up in pass protection.
“The only time you notice a Center is if they screw up or get blown up in pass protection.”
No: The only time YOU notice…not me. Speak for yourself. I notice any O-lineman I care to study, as long as I can find the footage.
Well both Schmitz & Tippmann have the versatility to play guard as well. Still I hope we wait until round 2.
It’s great that they are checking them out and doing their due diligence at the position, but at the end of the day team building is a holistic enterprise.
Is it more beneficial to the team to draft a center at #20 (or late 1st if trade down), and start someone at edge who was beaten out by 97yr old Bruce Irvin last year? Or, pick a center later and grab an edge that is likely to jump right into the starting role?
And…this says nothing of the fact that we don’t even have enough DL to start a game currently.
Let’s not let missing out on Creed Humphries taint a clear headed understanding of need for the team.
I tend to agree. We definitley need to address center with a real player. But if taking JMS or Tippman or whomever with our second pick means missing out on White, McDonald, Kancey, Ade Ade, etc, that wouldn’t feel great. I’d appreciate the player, but regret the opportunity cost.
I think there are too many legitimate center prospects that can be had from round 3 on. Even without Van Pran, this seems like a deep center class this year.
💯
This was the major benefit to signing Brown. Wait until the 3rd to draft a OC and if the board falls away from you, run with him for a year (or more if he balls out.)
A counter to this though
If they’d have taken Creed Humphrey with, say, a pick in the 20’s — guarantee someone would’ve moaned
In hindsight it would’ve been a great pick
Humphrey’s PFF grade in his last season at Oklahoma — 80.9
JMS — 92.3
Wypler — 82.4
Tippmann — 78.7
Was there a PFF grade on Mauch? We need depth at G too. Haynes gets injured.
Bingo!!! I agree one hundred percent with Mr Staton.
If we are given the benefit of hindsight, then wouldn’t you rather hit on an edge than a center.
Were they really to believe that a that an OC prospect could provide more value than an edge/DL prospect, then it will be because they really, really like the OC and don’t have much faith in the other available options.
🤦♂️
I’ve no idea why you are carrying this on in multiple strands
Why can’t you just accept that if they love a Center, as some respected people do with this class, that it’s not a problem to take him early
“I’d appreciate the player, but regret the opportunity cost.” –PJiS
I agree, but I also have to remind myself that this is a multi-year roster regeneration, where the team would be lucky to address even half of its most glaring holes via this year’s draft. If it just so happens that the Hawks see Tippmann as offering better value than, say, Adetomiwa Adebawore at #37, then I’d gulp down the opportunity cost. There will be more traitsy DLs next year…
…And same goes for the other way, too, as going DL in the second round imposes the opportunity cost of missing out on the top shelf of the center position. (All of this assumes that Seattle’s other second round pick is spent elsewhere.)
Being in the middle of a multi-year rebuild is a great argument for taking edge and DL with 2 of Seattle’s top 3 picks . Seattle only has 3 pass rush edges in a system that needs four, and Nwosu and Taylor are both up next year. They only have 5 DLs on the roster when they need 6/7 on gameday. The luxury of having two first rounders should be used to address a position of need that will impact the team the most.
If they are been able to pick up edge and DL with #5 & #20 then I would buy into a center #37 more, but I would still want the team to look hard for the best available touchdown maker before pulling that.
Rob-still a churning urn of top flight draft content! Nice to see Hutch back in the fold, too.
And, I watched the latest John Schneider/Dave Wyman spot on Seattle sports. My first time and I loved it.
John Schneider is a fun listen. I find myself hitting repeat multiple times in multiple spots, attempting to glean intel out of the gray. I don’t know whether he’s implying things or I’m inferring things, but either way it’s good stuff. I particularly like it when Dave puts down his checklist, shuts the hell up, and lets Schneider ramble. Thankfully, Bob knows how to use his ears and let the conversation develop organically.
Agree. It did bother me how he cut JS off several times when John was about to continue on his own. One time even to make a really dumb joke and comment on it. Let the man speak, darn it!
I do think he’s deliberate with a few things he says — subtle hints
We’ll know for sure in two weeks
T.D.C.G.H.S.E.
He said something about being willing to draft a player in spite of potential fan blowback. Is there a subtle hint in there?
I believe he was referring to drafting a QB. They know Geno is super-popular with the fan base and the talk of drafting a QB is very divisive on fan sites. But…
They have said repeatedly that “this is a rare opportunity.”
They told Geno in his exit interview at the end of the season that they were going to explore QBs and that was too private and too long ago to have been a “smokescreen.”
They brought in one of the top developmental QB coaches in the league. And he agreed to come here.
They signed Geno to a perfect contract to act as a bridge. And signed a perfect backup so there is no risk of an injury forcing a redshirt QB to start too soon. Scot McCloughan talked about how important that is in his interview with Rob.
They have met openly with all the top QB prospects and their social media has been doing everything to prepare the fan base for a QB pick.
Pete Carroll has spoken in the past about his admiration for the way John Schneider forecasts which teams are going to draft which players. I think they are confident that AR is going to be there at 5 and they are prepared to draft him. (Or trade up if they have to.)
Having a veteran center to make line calls would also help a young QB. So, if they add a top C after drafting Richardson, I won’t let my worries about the defense spoil my joy.
I’d add the Michigan center to this list… had great explosion numbers too.
Watched tape on Tippmann where some of the nose tackles pushed him back.. Illinois and Michigan… but I’m not a tape watcher…on those reps he looked overwhelmed though.
Personally I’d like Wypler or Olu in a later round… what’s the knock on Olu? Why isn’t he mentioned as highly as these other guys?
I don’t get why Olu Olu isn’t more hyped either. Maybe it’s because he’s on the smaller side? For that reason, I thought he’d be high on Seattle’s board and maybe he is.
The guy won the national awards last season for best center (Rimington) and best interior lineman (Outland). He’s legit.
Made this comment higher up on the thread about Oluwatimi…. I’ve heard that he may not have the necessary athleticism to fit what Seattle does. I don’t have time to study combine testing results or watch film, so I really don’t have a clue whether this is true or not. Maybe someone else with better knowledge can confirm. I personally like him a lot from his season at Michigan. At the college level, he was fantastic.
Yeah, short range speed and lateral range seem to be the knocks on him. I can’t find a short shuttle or three cone to substantiate it, but that would explain the lack of love.
I just heard Oluwatimi’s interview with Andrew Perloff, and he was brilliant. Classic center intelligence, perspicacity, etc. He’s got perfect size, but subpar athleticism. I wonder if his tiny hands will be an issue, given he’ll be handling the ball 60–65 times per game. At any rate, the MDD consensus board currently has him pegged in the fifth round, which is probably fair value.
As for Joe Tippmann getting pushed back too much, I’m assuming that’s purely a side-effect of technique, and doesn’t indicate any shortcoming in functional strength. Longer players take longer, but if they’ve got bend (which Brock Huard insists Tippmann does), they’ll figure it out. A tall man who gets low is a force to be reckoned with.
I listened to a podcast that said Stromberg from ARkansas is a quiet stud. Point was, when DT/NG had quiet games, it often against Arkansas. Stromberg shut them down.
Definitely one to keep an eye on, Stromberg.
Had an awful Shrine week in 1v1’s
Being in a rebuild while still trying to be competitive is really challenging. If they could just ignore the holes on the DLine in the early rounds of the draft and just some late rounder, udfa or vet min bodies, this draft would present a chance to build a Top 5 offense for years to come.
With some maneuvering, the first 4 picks could be:
– AR
– JMS
– A high potential TE
– Mingo
Extend Parkinson and Lewis and draft an RB2 later and all offensive starters except from one guard would be under contract for several years.
The year after you can go Panthers 2020 full defense draft…
Won‘t happen but it would be exciting to watch Seahawks football again!
I am with you on this. However, I still believe that #20 is too high for a Center. I am totally willing to grab one at #37, though.
I would snag a TE or WR at #20 if one of the top talents falls to that spot. Quentin Johnson, JSN or Josh Downs along with Michael Mayer would all make me happy at #20. So would Bijan Robinson but I just can’t see him falling that far.
Having a powerful offense is a great help to a struggling defense!
I also would like to see this, but I don’t think this is the year to double dip at WR. Heck, I might even skip it altogether.
AR
Mayer
(Downs/Mingo) or Mazi Smith/Ade Ade
Wypler or DL
News on the safety front:
Already on the tracker, yes.
Seahawks visits/meeting/interest Tracker
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J3d023YdKp9MFv7OQTy0YTssJ65qLd_aB0UJFGVHxPY/edit?usp=sharing
My Hope is they go D line at 5 center on a trade down like Pauline says at 37 picking up a little extra it would indeed be Manna from the heavens
There are no DL worthy of a #5 pick. Anderson will be gone and don’t say Carter.
“My Hope is they go D line at 5”
An overly need-driven draft approach is a sure way to a mediocre roster (see: Seattle Seahawks 2013–21 drafts). Maybe Will Anderson does fall to #5, and maybe his talent does warrant the pick, but that would be an example the board falling serendipitously. It won’t keep falling like that, however, if a team assigns each pick to this position of need or that position of need. Downtrading into need-driven picks can help maximize value, but that’s no cinch.
This is a tough one, so many good options from 20-90. But there’s always a few select players John feels he needs to get in a draft, I wonder a center and DL/Edge/NT are on that list. Doesn’t need to be one player, could be two centers they rate really high, and it’s going to come down to how the draft falls and what other teams do. And what they think, or what intel they have, on what other teams will do.
1. Robs excellent scouting.
2. Multiple picks.
3. Great community insight.
Very few ways I won’t be very stoked by the end of the draft this year.
May not agree with every pick but probably will like the overall haul.
For sure, nothing even comes close to this place.
That’s a great attitude to have Peter
I didn’t like the Charles Cross pick a year ago. I still gave them an A+ grade and wasn’t really bothered that I didn’t like the top pick. I could see the plan, understood the plan and I’m not so tied to my own personal grades to not have a bigger picture view.
Then there were a whole bunch of numpties screaming blue murder on pod’s and on twitter because they drafted Ken Walker.
And as I believe it was you said on the pod the other day, they weren’t bitching when he was scoring TDs last season.
Think that was Robbie — but he’s right
Was there really that much outrage over Walker? Glad I stayed away from internet last offseason, then. I was extremely stoked about Walker and thought we got the best running back in the draft. And since our RBs were always injured and we love running the ball, it made absolute perfect sense. And it paid off exactly as expected.
I ignored most of it but yes — there were prominent members of the Seahawks blogsphere and twitter having a right meltdown about it
You clearly don’t follow Evan Hill. Lol.
1) How fucking awesome is it that hutch is back working with the Seahawks, and he’s personally going out and evaluating offensive lineman? I know the spiel just cause you are great player doesn’t make a great coach/evaluator but still, you would have to think his opinion will carry serious weight. Major W for future hawks oline man I hope.
2) I feel the same to most other comments. The value of BPA at 20 for every other position besides center feels to high to not grab a dline or Mayer or Robinson if they drop.
3) You have to think there is no way one of those 3 centers doesn’t make it to 37, hence sit tight, grab Qboft first pick or will Anderson, second pick BPA top o talent if falls or best defensive player is preferable, then target center with pick 37.
I have had my eyes on Tippmann since the first time I read his scouting report. NFL Network said that Tippmann was the best blocking offensive line man in the draft.
I think there are only 2, maybe 3, prospects who could reasonably be available at 20 that Seattle would take instead of trading down — Michael Mayer and BJ Robinson, and maybe Darnell Wright. We can debate the likelihood of either of the first two lasting that long, and for the record I highly doubt Robinson would be, and slightly less doubt Mayer would be, and I’m skeptical they’d stick at 20 to take Wright.
Otherwise, they’re trading down. They won’t take JMS at 20 for everyone worried about that.
Based on everything I’ve read and seen, I think they prefer JMS and if he’s available at their trade down spot he might very well be the pick. But depending on the lay of the board at that juncture, they may also pivot to a different prospect with the idea of having Tippmann as a backup at 37 if they miss on JMS, or potentially a trade up from 37 if JMS lasts to a range where a short move up makes sense.
Either way, I think they’re comfortable with either prospect and they’ll take one of them in that 26-37 range.
FWIW, if Tippmann really ran a 4.31 short shuttle at 6-6 300+ that’s really something. Even the legendary Creed Humph ran it in 4.49.
Well, if JMS is their “must have” guy (and they’ve met with him more than any other prospect in the draft not named Ringo and Pauline reported they “became enamored” with him at the Senior Bowl) then they might not be able to risk moving down and getting jumped by the Giants.
Could be Sea Mode. That’s pretty much how they played the last draft on the first 2 days.
But I’m not sure JMS is their guy. That article from Pauline says Hutch is all in on Tippmann too. Pauline further mentions that Tippmann is a little less polished and would need some time easing into the starting role, whereas JMS is good to go right out of the box so to speak.
Interested dichotomy between the two top Seahawks C prospects — JMS and Tippmann — kinda mirrors the differences between Anthony Richardson and the other top QBs. Tippmann is an athletic freak with massive upside but who will need time and the right coaching to maximize his potential.
I still think they’ll trade down and roll the dice. The Giants have a few holes to plug so C at 25 may not be guaranteed for them either.
Yeah, anything could happen. I also think they’ll be pretty intent on moving down since there should be at least 3 good options at the center position. At least that’s been their MO in the past and goes with what Pauline reported, that they are already actively looking to do so:
I just don’t want them to be so dead set on filling a need at 20 that they feel they can’t just stay there and snatch up a BPA who falls to them.
Good post, BtC.
The undeniable impact of the Philadelphia Eagles’ dominant O-line reminds me of the value that can be created by dedicating ample resources to a proper upgrading of the interior positions. If the Hawks were to snare another upper-level tackle with the intent of moving him inside, I daresay fans would get right behind it. Personally, I struggle to get through a mock without trying to move around and put Broderick Jones at LG or Darnell Wright at RG, but all my (qwerty warrior) tinkering aside, I’m gathering that the Hawks are likelier to address their interior OL by keeping their existing guards while adding a plus center. John Schmitz will be 24.5 years old by season’s start, and his athleticism…does not inspire; I have a hard time seeing him as the answer. Joe Tippmann, on the other hand, could be the answer…provided the Hawks see the bend that Brock Huard was talking about. Can he develop his feet and learn to get low? If the answer is ‘yes’…
I hear you
My sources from deep inside a Senior Bowl bathroom confirm this report. It is all part of the master plan of the Cylon=Jedi-Klingon Trilateral Commision that is owned and funded by the Elders of Wakanda.
My sources say that the Gamalons are not involved. They are purchasing the Commanders.
When asked for comment, the Anzellans said only: “bad baby”
Bad Baby has a murder droid now.
Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!! NO !!!
Off-topic, but have you ever read Trilaterals over Washington (by Antony C. Sutton and Patrick Wood)? If only it were sci-fi…
If they think a C will be the right choice I’ll trust it. think as fans we tend to get a bit too attached to “our” guys. We want specific players or positions and decide that anything besides our draft preferences would be a terrifying mistake.
Spot on Niro. Happens every year.
I wrote a guest article for SDB years ago about the “confidence bias” and how it affects the way GMs trade up/down in the draft and how we as fans experience the draft when Seattle doesn’t draft “our guy.”
The data shows that trading down results in more players, more starters, more Pro-Bowlers and more HOFers than trading up. The data also shows that PCJS have been EXCELLENT drafters; arguably the best in NFL history. And the data shows that when JS does trade up, he has beat the odds for success.
Steve when was this posted please? I’d love to read it.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/guest-article-why-didnt-the-seahawks-draft-the-right-guy
Ha! Thanks, Sea Mode. I haven’t read it in a while but it still holds up.
And, if anyone is wondering, there have been additional studies since 2014 about trading back to accumulate more picks versus trading up to get “your guy” and the data still clearly favors trading back.
But, I did read a recent study of specific GMs and JS was the only one who was both a winner when he trades up and trades down.
I had a discussion with Rob about trading back from 5 if all the QBs they loved were gone. He was opposed and when I said “But the math favors that approach” he shot me down with “I don’t use math to build a team.” 😆 That was awesome. I still laugh about it. I told my British son-in-law about it and he said, “fair point.”
And in total transparency, I am 100% locked in to my own bias that Anthony Richardson is the perfect pick at 5. I will be disappointed if he is drafted earlier. And I will be gutted if he is available at 5 and Seattle passes on him.
This will be an exciting draft. It’s been a while since we have had this many picks. I feel like it’s a crime Rob isn’t paid well to do what he does. I tell everyone to go here for their draft fix-
Imagine if you will an offensive line up (eventually) consisting of
6-4/235 DK Metcalf
6-7/251 Colby Parkinson
6-6/322 Abe Lucas
6-4/322 Phil Haynes
6-6/310 Joe Tippmann 6-/245 Anthony Richardson
6-2/327 Damien Lewis
6-5/311 Charles Cross
6-2/220 Jonathan Mingo
And that doesn’t include possible replacements at OG in the upcoming draft.
Talk about being big off the bus!
There is another WR this year with rare size/athleticism; Bryce Ford-Wheaton. He is one of only 3 draft prospects in NFL history to measure 6-4, with a sub 4.4 40-time and crazy vertical. The other two are DK Metcalf and Tariq Woolen.
He is knocked for lack of agility and a limited route tree in college just like DK. He didn’t run a 4.26 like DK or get his picture taken with his shirt off so he didn’t generate the combine buzz. But, don’t be surprised if he gets picked by Seattle.
Wheaton might make a good backup X to DK but what the team needs is a slot/WR3. That’s why I love JSN. He’s in a class by himself given I don’t care much for the many small, thin guys in this year’s class.
The original post was about big players so I mentioned BFW because he is 6-4. And he fits a rare category of size/athleticism that Seattle has already drafted twice with great success.
JSN is an interesting prospect and definitely belongs in any discussion about potential slot WRs.
I like it. Might not be a bad time to go big, what with the standardization of nickel base and the sleeking of the modern linebacker. But I think you forgot that second tight end:
6-7/265 Darnell Washington
I like the idea of having Darnell as an “extra OT” on run plays. He is a capable receiver too although I don’t think he will ever get to the Pro-Bowl. But, team him with a nice Move TE in 2 TE sets in this scheme and teams won’t know what is coming.
Same. I feel like he could do so much for red zone efficiency.
👋
Seattle of XFL should sign him
I do understand the value of “getting your guy”, but I’m firmly in the camp that we shouldn’t even be considering a center until Round 3. That means we’ll likely miss out on JMS but almost every other center should be in play at that point. This class is deep enough that they can land a very good center prospect later in the draft.
Those first two rounds need to be BPA, hopefully also addressing our DL and WR3 woes.
Agree completely. Particularly since the options (JMS, Wypler and Tippman) are all solid options but none of them seem like must have prospects.
Really hope they stick to premium postions on Day #1 and 2 as well.
#5 QB or Anderson
#20-30 McDonald, Mayer, Ade Ade, Keion White
#37 McDonald, Ade Ade, Mazi Smith, Josh Downs, Darnell Washington
#52 Johnathan Mingo, Julius Brents, Derrick Hall
But what if they believe JMS or Tippmann are destined to be elite level centers?
What if that’s the feedback Hutch gives?
Why would we rule them out on a point of principle?
Do we know what Hutchinson’s brief is? Is it to find an elite level center or to find the best center in this draft? I haven’t heard anyone project that either Tippmann or JMS are going to be Elite level, though either might be the best Center in this draft. I think to draft a Center in the 1st round, the projection has to be pretty much, that there’s a high chance they’ll become Elite.
Tippman doesn’t have to be the best C in the draft. Nor does JMS or Wypler.
What they have to be is THE best fit for what Seattle wants to do.
Hutch will have angles on off field character aswell which is huge.
I think his brief is simply, ‘help us find f-ing good O-liners’
Worked with Abe that’s for sure
100% but Abe Lucas was a steal in the 3rd. I’d love it if Tippmann turned out to be a steal in the 3rd also.
I’m a bit nervous that this narrative to take a Center at #20, looks like they’re returning to old habits of not letting players fall to them but reaching for players they think are better than everyone else thinks they are. This hasn’t turned out that well for them in the recent past.
Plenty of people think JMS will be a value pick in the 20’s. Lance Zierlein has him graded as the #24 prospect. Jim Nagy has been banging the table for him for three months in R1.
It’s only a reach if you disagree with them.
Plenty of people would’ve told me Abe Lucas in R1 was a reach a year ago if they’d read my work. Ray Roberts for example. That would’ve been a great pick in the 20’s.
FWIW The Atheltic posted a 2022 redraft today and they gave Lucas to Seattle at #9 instead of Cross (Cross went #17 to LAC).
It’s almost like we knew… 🤷
I’m not going to go trawling through everyones big boards, but I pulled up three PFF, Bleacher Report and ESPN and JMS was #65, #52 and #42 respectively.
I’m not going to die on a hill over this, wouldn’t it be brilliant if they selected a future All Pro Center at #20, I’m totally on board with that prospect, but it’s a funny year to choose to do it after so many years inactive on this position.
My final point, yes Joe Tippman hasn’t tested, he might be that guy, but one thing about All Pro centers and 1st round draft picks of recent years, is they all have an elite testing trait.
Jason Kelce 4.14 ss 1.70 10 yard split
Corey Linsley 36 bench press reps at 296lbs 1.78 10 yard split
Creed Humphrey – top tester across the board
Tyler Linderbaum – Explosive tester, 1.78 yard split
As I say Joe Tippmann might be that guy, though he’ll have to overcome leverage issues if he stays at Center, but I just don’t see those #20 traits from any of the other guys at the Center position?
Well, I didn’t say everyone had him ranked early.
People do though. Knowledgable people. They might be right.
Oh well it was good while it lasted, one draft. One draft last year, when the team didn’t reach for need with a high pick. If this projection turns out to be true of course.
There’s no one grading any Center as a 1st round pick this year. It’d be perfectly reasonable to draft a Center on late day 2 or early day 3 to compete with Evan Brown. The team might even get a better player than they anticipate, Abe Lucas was a 3rd round pick last year.
There could still be some Pro Bowl potential prospects at #20 in the draft at TE, DT or Edge.
What I don’t get is they haven’t really been throwing darts at the Center position with later round picks either these last few years. It just seems bizarre to suddenly treat it like a franchise defining selection in a year when there isn’t a clear stand out candidate in the position.
Pump the brakes a little here! It’s not nailed on at all this is what’s going to happen.
Yeh of course, and I did say ‘If this projection turns out to be true…’
I probably wouldn’t be posting though if I was just happy to sit on the fence on this issue of picking a Center (of this years class) at #20.
“There’s no one grading any Center as a 1st round pick this year.”
How do you know? You’ve been granted access to all 32 warrooms?
—
“It just seems bizarre to suddenly treat it like a franchise defining selection…”
Straw man argument. We don’t even know that the Hawks would draft a center in the first round without first trading down for value—but even if they did spend a #20 on a center (which I don’t expect at all), it wouldn’t be to define the franchise. It would be to improve the O-line with a player who wouldn’t likely be available in a later round.
My point about being a franchise defining selection is more to do with the fact they’ve shown such little interest in drafting Center’s over the years, to suddenly do it now and more particularly at #20, is a defining moment!?
How do you know I haven’t been granted access to all 32 war rooms? 😉 To be a bit more precise, I haven’t heard any draft analysts give Round 1 grades on a Center in this years class.
I agree with you, I don’t think it will happen, but no discussion on pre draft topics is definitive right?
Maybe they spent some time watching film of Austin Blythe this offseason. *shrug*
“They’ve shown such little interest in drafting Center’s over the years…”
That’s not my understanding. Word around the campfire is that the Hawks were very close to trading up into the first round last year for Tyler Linderbaum. I can’t prove it, but I buy them having a first round grade on Linderbaum. And why not: Eking by at the position year after year has hurt the Seahawks bigtime. If anyone could be developed into an Aaron Donald stopper (well, container at any rate), it would be a player with Linderbaum’s background, experience, athleticism, upside, and all-around skill set.
Could the Hawks see any of this year’s crop as comparable?
Potentially unpopular take:
JMS may not be as successful as a pro. He’s not a great athlete. He’s oddly proportioned. He held his own at Senior Bowl, but still had trouble anchoring.
He’s technically very proficient and that masks a lot of his athletic shortcomings. But if he’s already maxed himself out on technique and athleticism, where does his growth come from? And let’s be clear: like any rookie, he’ll need growth in his game to succeed.
Tippmann on the other hand has a lot of room to improve his technique. And if he really does run the short shuttle in the 4.30 range, that’s as quick as most LBs. What a tremendous advantage he’d have.
I get the feeling they sent Hutch to compare the two and determine if Tippmann has the ability to up his technique, and the answer appears to be yes.
Add to that the fact he’ll cost less than JMS and I think their guy is Tippmann.
No need to shift the narrative in the press though. Let em think you’re lasered in on JMS.
Just my opinion
Forgot about the age difference too.
JMS is two full years older than Tippmann
I am wondering if they are looking at Tippman as a Guard.
He has C/G flexibility which only enhances his value, but he’s a C. That’s where he played at Wisconsin and that’s what Seattle would draft him to play.
I don’t think JMS plays any position other than C.
One of the reasons he chose Wisconsin was that they would be playing/coaching him at C/G/T. Tipmann family are a tree of great athletes.
You sold me Blitzy. Maxed out vs room to grow plus age difference. I will say tho I’m most pleased that they’re finally looking for a permanent guy at the position.
I hope they go Richardson, JMS/Tippman, Gibbs/Charbonnet just to see the uproar from the fans 😂
“I hope they go Richardson, JMS/Tippman, Gibbs/Charbonnet just to see the uproar from the fans” Ideally the Hawks need two defensive lineman early in the draft. Plus a center. Plus Levis/Richardson if either is on the board.
BTW: If the colts have their choice of Levis/Richardson. I tend to agree with Rob that the Colts go with Levis. Richardson is not ready. To start.
Jamal Adams + a 2024 3rd round pick to the Cardinals for Baker? One can dream.
How about Jamaal Adams, plus #5 pick, plus 2024 3rd rd, for Baker and #3 pick this year?
Adams for a ham sandwich?
Hahaha! Almost spit out my coffee!
*Almost*.
Coffee > Adams
I just got a call from ham, rye bread, and mustard. They’re offended by your suggestion. They feel they’re worth more. They’re correct too.
Look, see what white bread has to say…
Maybe we can get American cheese too
What attracts me to Tippman is that given his size, the days of poor anchors and bad drive blocking against big nose tackles/3 techniques might be over. And his short shuttle might mean he could actually move his feet on pass pro and get up to the second level on runs. No idea whether the tape shows this, though…
Oh, Tippmann can get bulled backward all right, but I don’t think there’s any question that it’s due to technical deficiency (rather than functional strength).
It has been the blowups of my drafts for the last 4 years. I don’t think JS/PC know what they want at center. The only one they drafted was Joey Hunt you know the small backup. Max Ungar was a leftover before JS/PC took over. So here I am again looking at centers again. I took JMS at 52 in my first draft. This a center that walk and start day 1. He did it when he started as a freshman and played for the next 4 and a half years because of pandemic year. He has the experience and the leadership skills. Tippman versatility and size comes into play he’s play both G and C spots. Wyler is more athletic tha JMS but he doesn’t have experience. He’s a junior there could be a hiccup in the first year. My plan right now is I’m willing to trade down from 20 and getting there guy for the next 5 years. I’m willing to 37 before I choose JMS he’s a mid 2 round talent. This is my opinion JMS is a bigger version of Joey Hunt. My escape is take best player and grab Wyler at 52. I do believe Seattle will have to draft a Center this year. It’s time too do this.
I may be so ready to move on from him, but I still hope he has a complete recovery. And if he’s not going anywhere, then I hope he also balls out.
I dare say though he looks a might bit better than in his last rehab workout video.
https://twitter.com/Prez/status/1647347048629379080?s=20
“Prez” 🙄
“Miller reports that Seattle is reportedly in love with Illinois cornerback Devon Witherspoon”
“Miller has no history of breaking anything”
Amen. If Seattle bypassed the last gift of the RW trade to pick up a CB at 5 – there would be mutiny in Seattle
Never followed the guy, but saw this posted somewhere so figured I’d share.
Matt miller:
Famously gave the Wilson draft haul a resounding “F”. And that’s all I’ve ever needed to know about him.
No doubt Seattle like witherspoon. Like Sampras says, so do 31 other teams
Bingo
I believe that Seattle is in love with Witherspoon. But so are 31 other teams. The guy is a beast. He might be the hardest hitting cornback in a long time.
BTW: I think Miller is also in love with Witherspoon.
Larry Stone: Why the Seahawks Shouldn’t Draft Jalen Carter
https://twitter.com/SeaTimesSports/status/1647407111830134784
RIP his mentions.
Larry Stone: Why the Seahawks Shouldn’t Draft Jalen Carter
https://twitter.com/SeaTimesSports/status/1647407111830134784
Finally a voice of reason. Cha. Thanks for the article.
I’ve always liked Larry. Every 6 or 7 articles, he writes a good one.
Funny.
And that article only scratches the surface
I will be disappointed if we draft a center in the first. That is still a pretty good first round position to be in to get a player at a skilled position locked up for 5 years.. why do you need to lock up a center for 5 years when the highest paid center in the league is making 14.5/yr. Save the first round picks for positions that if you hit on, you get that monetary control for that extra year.
You hit on a QB (that’s 50/year)
You hit on a great defensive player? (That’s up to 30/yr)
You hit on a great WR (30/yr)
LT 23/
CB 21/
LB 19/
— so if they have a first round grade on any of these higher priced positions, that would be my preference, get your center and your RBs starting in round 2
I’m a bit surprised at the level of push back on drafting a center early. I would say it comes down to whether their evaluation is right. If JMS or Tippman or whoever doesn’t work out it will be a bad pick. But in 5 years if we look back and he’s great, and whoever you wanted them to draft at a more acceptable position (say Keion White) is also great, we might reasonably say that White would have been a better pick due to positional value, but are we really going to be upset about having drafted a good center to pair with our tackles (and hopefully our young qb)?
If a center is on their top tier of available players at 20 and then they should take him.
I’m just sick of having a crap defense. I think we have as good of a chance of hitting on a center in the first or second as we do of hitting on a defensive player, hence why I would rather go defense first for the 5th year option.
Glor: Talent over need. The Hawks will get center in this draft .The Hawks know what they need more than you and I know. Of their first four picks. Ideally it would be Levis/Richardson. One center, Two defensive lineman. That is a possibility.
I can’t speak for others, but the reason I push back on this is simply value. I think there are better players at positions that are more important at 20. I’m totally down with taking a center. But I’d much prefer it to be 3rd round or later. Late second at the most.
This talk of center at #20 has to be a way to entice trade back partners. Otherwise it is the best way to fuck up this draft
A f-ed up draft that’s not actually f-ed up:
5…Carter
26….JMS
37….mazi smith
52….Benton
Spend a fourth and fly up to the top of round three…
65 or so…Mingo
83….Byron Young….if not him best CB available ( hope it’s brents)
I’m not going to pencil out the rest of it…
But rodriguez, rochon johnson, any of a number of safeties, some more fascinating wr’s.
Is it the chefs kiss draft where we draft AR, then ade ade at 26, white at 37, tippman at 52, Spend back up for mingo, burn fourth rounders and select the highest pick on cb ever with brents…?
Fantastic write up, Mr Staton!
I asked about Tippmann after Brock Huard gushed over him in his daily draft profile segment. You said he didn’t fit the Seahawks profile for centers. I respected your opinion. But couldn’t ignore what Huard was saying. Especially as he was so effusive about Tippmann, while comparing Wypler to Joey Hunt and saying JMS wasn’t that great. But seriously, kudos to you for not letting your past opinion sway your draft coverage. Someone of bigger ego and less humility would’ve stuck to his line in the sand. But no, your first rate coverage is above all that. And why we all continue to come to this superior source of Seahawks coverage. Thank you, sir!
Dawand Jones. He was high on my list. Then Rob reported that teams have soured on Jones due to his unwillingness to test at the combine or pro-day, plus the way he called it a week after one day at the Senior Bowl.
Darnell Wright on the other hand. Did not allow one sack in roughly 480 snaps. It doesn’t get any better than that.
Just read an article from Albert Breer. I might be a little late to the table here but I found some of the things he said very interesting.
• It’s tough to get a real read on what the Texans are doing at No. 2, but I’m less convinced it’ll be a quarterback than I was a month ago. If Young were to fall to them, then, yeah, I think Houston will take him. If not? It’s probably a little murkier.
The evidence I have comes down to Houston’s effort to go up to No. 1—at one point, the Texans and Bears were closing in on a deal that’d have the teams flipping spots, with Chicago then doing a deal with Carolina to drop from No. 2 to 9. Houston got a little uncomfortable with it in the end, and the Bears moved forward in doing their deal with the Panthers.
What can we take from that? Well, Houston’s willingness to go up to first tells us there’s a quarterback it likes enough to take there (otherwise, there’d be no reason to go up). But what if the Texans had only one quarterback they saw as worthy of a top-two pick? Add that to the fact that Houston GM Nick Caserio and coach DeMeco Ryans weren’t traveling all over kingdom come to quarterback pro days, and there’s definitely some mystery here.
• It’s no secret that the Cardinals have put the third pick on the block. And I think if they have trouble moving it, it’ll be because (a) quarterbacks went 1–2, and (b) the league is very split on the quarterbacks after Young and Stroud. If Stroud or Young were to fall to them, then they’d get a haul from someone looking to leapfrog the Colts into the top three.
• The Raiders did make a late run at moving up to the first pick, just before Chicago moved it to Carolina.
I’m guessing the Texans wanted to move up for Bryce Young. So what direction do they go if Carolina drafts Young?
If the Raiders were trying to move up to #1, was it for C.J. Stroud and if so, if he’s their at #3 do they move up?
If Young and Stroud go 1 and 2, are teams less likely to trade up to #3?
Is the most likely outcome of the first four picks #1 Young, #2 Stroud, #3 Anderson and #4 Levis?
Would love to see Ade Ade a Seahawk. He can play DE on early downs. Then kick him inside in passing situations. If the Hawks came up with Richardson/Ade Ade/Joe Tippmann. It would be absolutely awesome.
I think one of the issues the Hawks defense has had over the tears is when they plan too much to know whether an opponent will run or pass. The best and most valuable defensive players don’t need to change positions to be an asset against both.
Read a rumor today from Matt Miller that Seattle “loves Devon Witherspoon”. Is there a scenario where Anderson is gone and they don’t love Levis and take Witherspoon at 5?
Rob has pointed out in comments above how inaccurate Miller has been
I don’t even know how or why Matt Miller is on ESPN
He’s been talking about the draft for 15 years and I can’t remember a single time he’s been ahead of the curve on a player. I keenly remember his assessment of the 2012 draft though
Just someone who has pushed himself on twitter very successfully over the years. Like DJ.
Now he’s reporting who teams supposedly like
Aye, I bet he has all the info
I can’t imagine a world where teams are even talking to him about anything.
Not saying anything about his character. Just more of a “who is this calling again?”
He has no credibility when it comes to reporting who teams like
When has he reported stuff like that and it’s come off?
Never.
And you and I have been around long enough when these guys got their starts on fledgling sites just submitting articles back when nearly anyone who would write for them got published.
Say what you will about Mortensen, et al, even the late John Clayton but a lot of these guys are actually connected and/ or were real reporters from a different age.
You mean Miller wasn’t killing at at Bleacher Report? A very reputable and accurate sports new site?
There are definitely certain guys that hold a lot of sway when they speak. And they have earned that right to have their words carry that much more weight. Miller ain’t one of them.
Exactly this.
Maybe when he gets 30 yrs under his belt and he’s the last man standing then he’ll have sources.
Until then he’s a guy that wrote about sports instead making list-icles for daily beast
I love Witherspoon, but no way I’d take him at #5. It’s got to be one of the QBs or Will Anderson.
I hope not. Miller isn’t the only one talking about this.
I like Witherspoon’s competitiveness. But, his small size and lack of length screams slot CB. And Pete Carroll is talking about Love playing that role.
I would love for Seattle to add a CB. Darius rush is tall, fast, long and was a Senior Bowl standout. Juju Brents is tall, fast and has the biggest wingspan ever measured for a CB. I think either of those guys on Day 2 would be a much better pick than using 5 on a CB.
Interesting that quite a few of those who (quite rightly) have been lamenting the loss of Max Unger and the fact the Seahawks have missed pit on C in recent drafts are now unsure whether a R1/early R2 pick on a C is a good idea, now it’s actually on the cards?
Hoping we take a center but not at 20. Don’t think Tippman is fundamentally as good as JMS & Wypler
Center with a 1st round pick makes no sense to me.
Would you sooner have a guy like ADe Ade, Keion White or Will McDonald in the 20s and a guy like Juice Scruggs on Day 3
Or take JMS in the 20s and then try to find an impact DL man on day 3?
I guess it depends on how much Schneider and Carroll value a Center position this year. If they don’t get a QB at 5, and select Carter, then a Center in the first round makes a lot more sense.
I meant Will Anderson, not Carter. Freudian slip lol.
Why can’t you get an impact defender in R2?
I wouldn’t necessarily take a center at 20 or in the 20’s but if they believe there’s a top-level center available in that range, I’m not going to complain about it
Exactly.
I hate the value arguments. All “I” value is high quality starters for my team.
See these talking points that the majority of top five dline picks are great….but it’s logic is framed as if as you make the selection then *tada* there’s a sort of magic that happens and they are amazing. And not that those picked top five are world beaters.
Back to center…..if you select basically any position and they become multi time pro bowlers+ for your team I doubt I’m going to care when their second contract comes around where they were selected.
I’m noticing center at 20 or 26 or thereabouts.
Early guess though…
White, benton, Pickens, mazi smith, maybe ade ade are all round two picks.
Just a way I’ve berm looking at it. There’s a lot of intriguing corners. I know there’s slightly boring talk about corner early for the hawks but I think teams that can’t find Sherman and now woolen will push corner early.
I’m completely out on tackle talk minus Wright and Jones but I assume there’s three to four that teams will push up. Then there’s the not great wr class that teams will have to convince themselves of.
Ade ade is a projection with great testing ( hope he’s a hawk)
White is old ( my personal favorite. He and ade are the antithesis of Carter for different reasons)
Benton is in some eyes a carbon copy of Reed ( I don’t see it totally but mid 2nd feels right)
Mazi Smith who needs a two down player ( albeit great. Us, the steelers)
Think about how much more effective Ken Walker will be with a good young center. Last year there was very little push up front. If you get a 10-year starter who plays at a high level, we all should be thrilled.
I am hoping for Will Anderson or Richardson at 5. I wouldn’t be crushed if we got Witherspoon if those two are gone. A hard pass on Jalen Carter.