Further thoughts on trading up for Isaiah Simmons

March 2nd, 2020 | Written by Rob Staton

In yesterday’s combine review I proposed the Seahawks trade up for Isaiah Simmons. It’s unrealistic, yes. I don’t think it will happen. I think they’ll do what they always do — identify the players they like and then manipulate the board to get as many of those individuals as possible. I still think it’s a worthwhile discussion and I wanted to put some more meat on the bones today.

In 11 years of writing this blog, I’ve never proposed a significant trade-up scenario. This isn’t something I do. The fact that I’m writing a second piece about this is a review of both Simmons’ ability and the situation the Seahawks find themselves in.

The defense needs more talent. They built a legendary unit between 2010 and 2013 using later round picks and smart free agency moves. The re-set that started in 2018 hasn’t produced the same results.

They’re among the worst ranked teams for pressures, sacks, run defense and missed tackles. The unit has flaws at every level. There’s talent too — but not enough of it to cover up some of the issues.

They don’t need to re-create the LOB to win a Championship. They just need to be better. Two or three key additions, paired with the brilliance of Russell Wilson and a highly productive top-five offense (per DVOA) could put the Seahawks right in the mix to succeed in 2020.

The recent combine was not good for the defensive side of the ball. As noted on Saturday, this is the weakest looking D-line group in a long time. Nobody working out at the combine had any speed or quickness to threaten the edge as a pass rusher.

The defensive options at #27 just don’t look that good.

It’s possible they solve this problem in free agency. They might be able to pull off another coup. Who among us predicted the Harvin/Bennett/Avril moves in 2013? Or last years trade for Jadeveon Clowney that was described by many as daylight robbery? Or swapping a fifth rounder for Quandre Diggs?

A weak defensive draft, however, is more likely to make the open market more expensive and competitive.

They might only be able to re-sign Clowney and one second-tier compliment. They might lose out on Clowney and need to invest in a different player.

Either way — as Russell Wilson noted — they need some superstars.

So what makes Simmons a potential star?

Every player has bust potential. Some are more risky than others.

The reason why I called him the first player in 11 years of blogging worthy of trading up for is simply because the risk factor is as low as I can remember.

This is a player who ran a 4.39 at 6-4 and 238lbs. He jumped a 39 inch vertical and an 11-0 broad. His physical profile is even more freaky than D.K. Metcalf. Yesterday we pointed out the similarities between Simmons and Julio Jones. His upside is as high as any defender in recent memory.

His production in college was superb. As a sophomore starter he led Clemson in tackles as they won the National Championship (89 tackles, nine TFL’s, one interception returned for a touchdown, seven PBU’s, three FF’s). As a junior he returned to the Championship game, recording 102 tackles, 16 TFL’s, eight sacks, three interceptions and nine PBU’s. He won the Butkus Award as the nation’s top linebacker.

What about his character? Simmons was an emotional leader on a roster filled with personality. He was a heart and soul type, setting the tone and leading the way.

He’s incredibly versatile. According to PFF, “Simmons played 100 or more snaps at edge defender, linebacker, strong safety, free safety and slot cornerback, all while grading out above 80.0 as a run defender, tackler, pass rusher and coverage defender.”

Sometimes versatility is a flaw. You can be a jack of all trades and master of none. I don’t see that with Simmons. It might take a little time to work out his true best role — but the talent, upside and character makes for an easy projection of success wherever he lines up.

Think of the options too. If you needed him to match-up with George Kittle when playing the Niners, can you imagine a better physical specimen for the role? What if you need someone to spy Kyler Murray? Seattle struggled mightily defending the perimeter run in 2019. How about a 4.39 runner with physical intensity to solve that problem?

He could be a long term replacement for KJ Wright at the WILL. He could replace Mychal Kendricks at the SAM and play rush and cover. He could be the fastest strong safety the league has ever seen. You could rush him off the edge on key downs and use him as a dynamic blitzer. The Seahawks need a nickel — how about a 238lbs big nickel who can run as fast as most of the smaller cornerbacks in the draft?

Whether it’s TFL’s, sacks, superior coverage or the ability to contain your NFC West opponents — be it Kittle, Murray or LA’s endless misdirection — Simmons provides a solution to all of Seattle’s woes.

I spent a bit more time looking at what a move like this would cost the Seahawks.

There are three trades worth considering as a comparison:

1. In 2011 the Atlanta Falcons traded #27, #59, a fourth round pick and their 2012 first round pick to the Browns to select Julio Jones.

2. In 2017 the Kansas City Chiefs traded #27, #91 and their 2018 first round pick to the Bills to select Patrick Mahomes.

3. In 2018 the New Orleans Saints traded #27, a fifth round pick and their 2019 first round pick to the Packers to select Marcus Davenport.

All three trades included a team moving up from #27 — the pick Seattle owns this year. It’s quite the coincidence that this pick has been traded so often.

This actually helps if you’re trying to move up. A buyer (Seattle) and a seller can use precedent to reach a fair agreement.

If the Seahawks needed to trade up to #6 or #7 — it would probably cost them one of their two second round picks, one of their two fourth round picks and their 2021 first rounder. If Simmons lasted to #10 or beyond — it’d be a bit cheaper.

When you’ve got a lot of draft picks, these types of scenarios are easier to justify.

So is Simmons even likely to last into range?

It’s possible the Lions take him at #3 after his sensational combine. It’s also very possible he lasts long enough to make a trade possible.

Let’s run through the top-12:

1. Cincinnati — they will draft Joe Burrow

2. Washington — they will draft Chase Young

3. Detroit — the safe money here is on a trade with a team for a quarterback

4. New York — Dave Gettleman is all about the trenches (DL, OL)

5. Miami — this’ll be a quarterback if they don’t move up, otherwise it could be Detroit and the hot tip is for them to draft Jeff Okudah

6. LA Chargers — this’ll be a quarterback if they don’t move up, otherwise their next biggest need is clearly O-line

7. Carolina — this is a logical landing spot for Simmons but they also need O-line and D-line help badly

8. Arizona — they too need O-line and D-line help plus they could consider a receiver

9. Jacksonville — they could take Simmons but they are yet another team who needs O-line and D-line help

10. Cleveland — they need a left tackle

11. New York Jets — they need a left tackle, a receiver or a cornerback

12. Las Vegas — Mike Mayock stated their priority is a weapon on offense

Realistically the Seahawks would need Simmons to drop to at least #6 or #7 to entertain any thoughts of a trade. When you think about it, it’s not actually that unrealistic — and he could last longer.

After all — who thought Josh Allen would last to #7 a year ago? But he did. Marshon Lattimore — tipped to be a top-five pick — lasted to #11 in 2017. Aaron Donald and Odell Beckham Jr lasted until picks #12 and #13 in 2014 — despite their extreme athleticism, big name status and huge college production.

It really comes down to positional value. This year there are a collection of quarterbacks, one supposed elite pass rusher, a handful of quality offensive tackles and a top cornerback prospect expected to go early. Teams might like Simmons — but not enough to pass on a QB, pass rusher or O-liner.

In particular you look at pick #7 right through to #11. They all desperately need an offensive tackle. And in this class, there happens to be Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs, Mekhi Becton, Jedrick Wills, Austin Jackson, Isaiah Wilson and Ezra Cleveland.

You’ve also got the possibility of Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw and the receivers fitting into this too. We could also see Jordan Love or Jacob Eason taken early.

Mike Sando published a top-10 mock draft today with an anonymous GM making the picks. Simmons wasn’t even included. In Daniel Jeremiah’s latest mock published today, Simmons lasts to #7.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the Panthers — beginning a major rebuild — would prefer a haul of picks in 2020 and 2021 instead of one top-10 selection? If he lasts to #10, would the Browns be comfortable trading down? After all, their analytics-led front office stacked picks when they were first appointed and had control. Tony Pauline has been reporting the Browns really like Ezra Cleveland. Would they be willing to drop down with the aim of drafting him later on?

This is a massive off-season for the Seahawks. They’re at a crossroads. They need to turn a good team into a great team. The blueprint to doing that is clear. It’s simply more talent on defense. Two or three really quality additions.

If they can’t achieve that in free agency, it might — for the first time — be worth considering a big trade up. Not on a whim. You trade up for the player who is finally worth the move.

Yes it’d be expensive. But you’re hoping it costs you the #27 pick and the #32 pick in 2021. Seattle’s recent history of picking in that range isn’t great. A calculated gamble, with the franchise in need of a Championship inspiring boost, is justifiable.

Even if the trade was as expensive as Atlanta’s Julio Jones plan — they’d still be in possession of a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh round pick in the 2020 draft.

Some people roll their eyes at these suggestions. They treat the NFL like a dull, uneventful league where nothing exciting happens. The exact opposite is true. Crazy, unexpected things happen all the time. Of all the talking points we’ve discussed this season — this is probably the most outrageous because there’s no precedent for them doing anything like this.

Can you say it isn’t logical though? Can you argue they don’t need a splash or two on defense? Can you argue that’s not the main thing holding them back? Can you argue against Simmons’ fit in Seattle?

I don’t think it’ll happen. But it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t.

Quick thoughts on Yannick Ngakoue

The big NFL news today involved a report stating the Jaguars would place the franchise tag on Ngakoue, only for the player to tweet the following in response:

It seems inevitable at this stage that the Jags will seek to follow in the footsteps of Seattle, Kansas City and Houston and trade a pass rusher on the tag.

Would the Seahawks be interested? They’d have to be. He has 37.5 sacks in four seasons. He doesn’t turn 25 until the end of this month. Their biggest need is pass rush and Ngakoue is one of the better young rushers in the league.

However, there are some other things to consider:

— This will be very expensive and likely cost at least #27.

— Ngakoue will need/expect an immediate extension. You’d have to pay him the exact same money Jadeveon Clowney receives as a free agent. So why wouldn’t you just pay Clowney and keep the pick?

— Frank Clark had 22 sacks in 2017 and 2018. Ngakoue has 17.5 in his last two seasons. If they wouldn’t pay Clark top money, why would they pay Nagkoue top money?

— Furthermore, Clark ticked all of the boxes in terms of physical ideals. He had the size, length, twitchy agility and explosive traits they love. Nagkoue has short arms, he ran a slow forty, he tested poorly in the short shuttle and three cone and he wasn’t very explosive. Will Ngakoue’s profile be a turn-off, even if he’s since shown to be a productive player?

— How much did Ngakoue benefit from playing on Jacksonville’s loaded defense? His best season came in 2017 when the Jags nearly made the Super Bowl. They called themselves ‘Sacks-onville’. He recorded 12.5 sacks. In the two years since, when the Jaguars have struggled, he had 9.5 and eight sacks. If you trade a high pick for him and give him an elite salary — will it be worth it if he’s only bringing in 8-9 sacks?

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276 Responses to “Further thoughts on trading up for Isaiah Simmons”

  1. Zxvo3 says:

    Love the idea Rob. The move is unlikely as you said by why shouldn’t it be in consideration?

    In free agency you go and sign Everson Griffen, and maybe Vic Beasley. Re-sign Clowney and Reed. Now you have a quality defensive rotation.

    In the draft, I could see Raekwon Davis falling to the end of round 2. Or I could see them taking an OL prospect they like (Wanogho, Stenberg, Niang) at that range too.

    • Jhams says:

      Am I the only one who thinks Danny Shelton would be a cheaper and better signing as DT than Reed?

      • Steve Nelsen says:

        Shelton slimmed down and was an effective starter last year. He is probably closer to a run-stuffing Al Woods replacement though than a Reed replacement. But, at his projected cost of $4-5 million, he would be definitely be cheaper. DJ Reader might be a replacement for Reed if Reed really thinks he is still going to get a multi-year $10+ million per year deal after last season but he is also projected to cost about $10 million per season.

      • drewdawg11 says:

        I’ve been saying it for a while! Bring Danny home!!!

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think this article portrays an unrealistic yet thought provoking scenario. That’s the best way of putting it.

      • TomLPDX says:

        I can assure you that JS is looking at everything. If he were to fall into the teens, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us move up. Anything is possible and what you’ve laid out has merit.

        As for Ngakoue, I would pass and just build the roster…even if we don’t get Clowney. I have a feeling his production was because of those around him (I’ve not watched closely enough to say that with conviction),

        Thanks for the thought-provoking exercise, I would love to see Simmons come in and take over as one of our premier LBs for the next decade…and that’s what we are talking about.

        • BobbyK says:

          Even if KJ comes back – next year is probably his last in the NFL. No sense not taking someone because they have that area covered (if the Seahawks projected him at WILL) for a singular season.

          • TomLPDX says:

            Hey Bobby, that’s actually my thought. I hope we have KJ for one more year but I know he isn’t long for the Seahawks world (BTW, I love KJ!). If we could get that nailed down and give Simmons a chance to learn from some of the best it would be even more beneficial for all of the team.

  2. I dont think a trade for Yannick would be as expensive as people think. Jacksonville is about $21 million in the black now after the Dareus release. You tag Yannick for $19.3 million and your back at zero. Teams will know this and use it against them. I wonder if they would even look to trade up for a guy like Kinlaw if he lasted as well?

    • Never mind on your opinion on Kinlaw as I read the last post.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      Rob may not agree but I absolutely would be up for trading up for Kinlaw, or someone like Andrew Thomas. The way I’m looking at this draft right now, especially on the defensive side, is there is a shallow pool of top talent at the top and after that your drafting WRs, RBs or not getting good value. (Tbf this is always kinda true, but I feel more so this year).

      This is the offseason to make an aggressive moves, we’ve talked about it since the Green Bay game, that starts with free agency but should not end there. It’s time to make the jump to contender status.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The Jags have a lot of other players they can cut to create room.

  3. cha says:

    Great piece, Rob. I’m starting to come around.

    One thing I’d feel like I would really, really want if they traded for Simmons, is for the coaches spend the summer building a transition plan for him to the NFL. He has such versatility and a fantastic skill set, you could get either hypnotized into Pidgeon-holing him into one role, and on the flip side, never letting him get rooted in the defense.

  4. bigten says:

    Amazing analysis Rob.

  5. Jhams says:

    Talking about trading up, if Derrick Brown lasted into that range would you consider him worth the move up? I’ve seen people saying they’ve got him graded higher than Chase Young, and Bucky Brooks keeps making comparisons to Reggie White.

    • Rob Staton says:

      No. In two pieces now I’ve said Simmons is the only player in 11 years I think has been worth trading up for based on talent and situation.

  6. Coleslaw says:

    Rob, do you think 27, 59, 5th and 2021 2nd gets it done? The Clowney comp pick would be a nice consolation for losing the 2021 2nd, we would still have 64 this year and have $ to sign a few pass rushers in FA like Griffen, Addison, Beasley/Irvin.

  7. DC says:

    Sometimes I ponder what our defense would have looked like with Frank Clark & Clowney paired together. Subtract him from KC, add him to SEA and that damn well might have been enough to get the job done.

  8. Coleslaw says:

    The only thing that makes me apprehensive about Simmons is his fit here. Clearly he will fit any defense at almost any position. But when you talk about where he would be best, to me Will LB in our defense ain’t it. He wouldn’t be able to use his full skill set. I think hes best as an OLB in a 3-4. The Von Miller role.

    • Coleslaw says:

      I think his best spot in Seattle would be MLB and we have Bobby locked up.

      • Henry Taylor says:

        How can someone’s best fits be the Von Miller role or the Bobby Wagner role? That’s like saying he would fit best as either Tyler Locket or Chris Carson.

        • Coleslaw says:

          Seattle is 4-3. Von plays in a 3-4

          • Henry Taylor says:

            I know, and they play completely different positions within those schemes. Von is an edge rusher, he’d be a DE for Seattle.

            • Coleslaw says:

              Yeah I shouldn’t have used Von. Duly noted, whatever. Point is he can do it all like Von, yes he fits more at Will in a 3-4 but he should NOT be in a position that doesnt blitz. He can do it all and he should be used to do it all. Von is.

              I’m not sure a Will in a 3-4 even blitzes enough to be a good enough fit for him. I almost feel like his best positions go

              1. SS in aggressive 3-4
              2. MLB in 4-3
              3. WLB in 3-4

              • Henry Taylor says:

                I also dont really think he has the frame for the mike either. You gotta play him out in space where he can use his speed and make plays.

                Tbh though this is what is so fun about this player, he’s so versatile we cant agree on how we even want to use him

        • Coleslaw says:

          Also, Simmons is versatile enough that he could play 2 different roles like that on D. He could be a DL, OLB, ILB, SS. It’s all about maximizing his skill set.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      Simmons would be totally wasted as a rush linebacker in a 3-4, not his skill set at all.

      He’s an off ball LB or a safety.

  9. Would love this to happen, and there’s definitely some potential he’ll last into a tradeable range. Why not get a dynamic player than a couple average ones, especially when the need on defense is immense. I think his ability to pressure and his speed to spy on quarterbacks and cover the edges would be massive and directly address our defense’s biggest two problems last year.

  10. BobbyK says:

    I agree with the Frank Clark analysis. Why would they want him if they didn’t want Clark (probably similar dollars)?

    It’s kind of crazy one can see a guy like Simmons going at #3 or somewhere in the mid-teens (or later).

    • BobbyK says:

      I could see Mayock being smart enough to take him at 12 since they still have another 1st round pick where they could address receiver.

      • Lewis says:

        I don’t think it’s correct to say they didn’t want Clark. But they had other players that had to get done first last year. This year, pass rush is the #1 priority. There’s also likely to be a big cap jump. If they still had Clark and could give him that deal now, I think they would (especially with few potential replacements in the draft).

  11. Coleslaw says:

    I really like the idea of trading up this year, maybe for someone other than Simmons, even. We gotta be aggressive. If we can build the DL in free agency, are we really going to find impact players for this superbowl run at 59 AND 64? Probably not.

    We dont really NEED a 3rd WR (especially not in R2 in this class) and we dont really NEED a TE (especially in R2 in this class). If we traded up for a defender, we could probably find a pretty good OT at 64 (Cleveland, Niang).

    To me DE and OT are the 2 big needs. Everything else is almost luxury. We do need someone in the back 7, but that could be part of the trade up.

  12. Nick says:

    WOW! I really appreciate 1) how unique of an idea this is and 2) how you’re willing to go out on a limb for that player.

  13. Kyle says:

    Tomorrow on Field Gulls:
    “Why the Seahawks won’t trade for Isaiah Simmons”

    Unimaginative whining masking as rational analysis. I can’t wait.

  14. Trevor says:

    You have me convinced Rob I would be willing to give up #27,64 and next years #1 in a blink for Simmons. Bobby in the middle and Simmons moving all over the place would covet up a lot of holes on that defense.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Especially if they actually fix the pass rush.

      • Trevor says:

        Yes exactly. Plus in this division with SF and LA running offenses that stress your defenses speed on the edge with sweeps and mis-direction what better way to combat than with a guy like Simmons. Plus he would be one of the few guys in the league would could cover Kittle and the new breed of athletic TEs.

  15. Saxon says:

    Simmons is a nice, versatile player but ultimately he’s still a Linebacker. The value of LBs has plummeted in the pass happy NFL. Even if you argued he’s a three down LB with elite coverage skills he still would have less positional value than DE, penetrating DT, and elite CB/NB/ or ballhawk FS. Trading major assets for Simmons means you have less opportunity to get players with higher positional value.

    Sure, were he to fall you’d take him, but to trade major assets for an OLB would be a mistake. I’d rather give up even more assets and chase Young… get it?

    • Rob Staton says:

      He’s not ‘just a linebacker’. The piece states that quite clearly.

      Let’s not try and argue him into David Hawthorne.

      • drewdawg11 says:

        I still can’t believe that some people don’t realize how great this guy is. He’s so unique, but watch his film if you can get your hands on games. One snap he’s at LB, then he’s playing centerfield. He’s lined up on the slot, he can blitz and he can bend and dip around the edge. He doesn’t stay blocked. His numbers would have been astronomical if he had played full games. Too many blowouts. He’s what every team who passes on him with regret in 4 years. We definitely increase our chances at a good defense and maybe more with this guy and a few other moves. He’s the guy to take the torch when Bobby steps aside. If you don’t know, go out and watch as much film as possible. He was one of my favorite guys to follow going into this season, and he’s gotten even better.

    • John_s says:

      I disagree that the value of LB have “plummeted”. If you wanted to say the traditional 3 LB set has diminished, sure I would agree with that with teams playing more nickel.

      However the LB’s that do play on the field are just as valuable as ever as evidenced by the salaries they are getting.

      When you prioritize positions DE, DT and shutdown CB has always been more of a priority than LB so that hasn’t changed.

      When you are talking about Isaiah Simmons, you’re talking about a unicorn of an athlete who can play 3-4 different positions and line up anywhere on the field.

    • GoHawksDani says:

      I’d disagree with the LB value statement.
      Rams love to run the ball. SF is only D# without their rungame. Cardinals also need a run game to be effective, and limiting Murray on QB runs is a good thing.
      Make those teams avg only 2.5-3 yards/carry and Hawks would be 6-0 in the division. Especially if they can start games faster and have a solid passrush

    • Mark Souza says:

      Simmons is a nice, versatile player but ultimately he’s still a Linebacker. The value of LBs has plummeted in the pass happy NFL.

      Yes, I’m sure if Lawrence Taylor was cloned and available in the draft, the reaction would be “yeah, but he’s only a linebacker.”

  16. Bankhawk says:

    “I don’t think it’ll happen. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t.” Damned Rob, as Mick says; “I salivate like a Pavlov’s dog” when I watch that highlight clip! If they really were to pull off a move like this one, we’d probably have to start calling you ‘Nostra-Robus! Here’s to hoping J.S. proceeds to have an off-season half as good as the one you’về got going. You’re absolutely killing it, man!

  17. Happy Hawk says:

    Wow watching that tape on Simmons – amazing athlete, great closing speed on players and the ball, super instincts and reaction time! The way he seals the outside and closes with blazing speed to cut off the runner from turning upfield and making plays is what we need big time. A solid, accurate, and high volume tackler. His closing speed on blitzes is impressive. I always felt that Atlanta and KC trading up on their deals was game changing and enlightened when it comes to these generational players. I feel the Hawks should be bold and aggressive while in the RW and Super-bowl window. If Simmons fell within range we should pounce on it and get him to Seattle!

  18. Frank says:

    I really like it! I would ideally see him taking over for KJ, and being the ultimate successor to Wagner. In a 4-3 defensive it’s almost impossible to overvalue a great coverage LBer. After seeing Griffin growth from year 2-3, I think we can feel good enough to not have to address outside CB, Diggs made an immediate positive impact on the team, McDougald is a serviceable player and certainly Blair is going to be far more ready for the field this year. Besides Kendricks who is basically just an oversized nickel for us, the LBers where quite poor in pass coverage. This move could be a ten year solution to Kittle, and Murray. Wow Rob, haven’t had a chance to respond over the last few days but that is a seriously impressive amount of quality work this week!!!

  19. Stephen Pitell says:

    As always you make a great argument, and it is thought provoking and will produce lots of discussion, BUT I’d only pull the trigger on something like this if he dropped far enough that moving up requires much less than something like the trade Atlanta made for Julio Jones.

    Look how far Metcalf fell last year. I believe someone will fall further than expected and those are the players to go after. The Hawks have done well with those kinds of players. Players like Reed, Frank Clark, and Lockett.

    The draft is about getting the best athlete available. Filling holes is for free agency.

    Simmons looks like a future star for sure, but it’s just not in the cards for us unless he drops into the 20’s.

    • Hawktalker#1 says:

      Totally disagree. He can provide a ton of value if taken in a draft position above #20. Sometimes you need to move up to get the quality you need. Getting a gift like DK in a position of need doesn’t happen every day. The rest of the days, you need to make something happen, not just wait for it.

    • Tecmo Bowl says:

      Well put. Thats my train of thought too.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Everything is posturing at this stage. Roll on two weeks time.

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      They are in a 100% better cap situation now. They had to pay a QB big dollars. Now they can massage the cap and in the end, they now have the ability to pay a guy top dollar. IF Clowney fits, they will pay him. Dare I say 21M+ / year.

  20. TJ says:

    I remember the 2009 draft when Aaron Curry was an elite can’t-miss LB considered to be the safest prospect in the draft. We got him at #4 and he flopped. This is interesting food for thought, and is fun to discuss, but if the Hawks were to give up a lot of picks only to see Simmons turn out like Curry, it would set them back for a long time. I’m not arguing for or against a move like this, but want somebody to help me understand what scouts missed when evaluating Curry that they aren’t missing with Simmons.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Aaron Curry and Isaiah Simmons are totally different players.

      Couldn’t be more different.

      • I think what TJ is saying is you better be sure as you can be he will be successful be ause if he is a bust that could really set you back. That being g said JS doesnt shy away from making big deals and going for it.

        • Rob Staton says:

          But why then make the comp to Curry, who’s nothing like Simmons?

          Might as well say… Von Miller is great. If they’d traded up for him, it would’ve been wise.

          • TJ says:

            Greg is exactly correct. I could have used any player, regardless of position, to raise the question. I’m not comparing the two players measurables, playing styles, strengths, or weaknesses. Curry is an easy example because he was supposed to be the next great NFL linebacker. A lot of us thought that we got our answer to Patrick Willis – we obviously didn’t. NFL scouts got that one wrong. It happens. If a team trades a bunch of picks for one player, they better be sure that one player is worth it. Simmons may be. I’m not saying he is or isn’t, I don’t really know. I simply asked what the scouts got wrong with Curry. If I remember, he had great measurables, ran like the wind at the combine, and was tough and aggressive in college. Why didn’t he pan out in the NFL? That is nothing like using the obvious benefit of hindsight to say “it would have been wise to trade for Von Miller.” This is a forum for discussion. I simply raised a question.

            • Hawksince77 says:

              This was the discussion I was looking for. My response to Rob is not that Curry and Simmons are similar players. But instead, the example reflects an aspect of PC/JS draft strategy, that nobody is a can’t-miss prospect. They don’t exist. When Curry was drafted that was the consensus: the safest, can’t-miss pick at #4. Well, it didn’t work out.

              It’s bad enough using a 4th round selection and wiffing. It becomes a disaster if you spend a Julio-like ransom to move up and the player doesn’t work out (McDowel, for instance, of a player that returned nothing on the pick). And it doesn’t matter why — injury, stupidity, lack of motivation — whatever. It still costs the picks.

              PC/JS do exactly the opposite. They gather picks and take a ton of players, knowing that half (or more) of them won’t work out. Occasionally you score a Wilson or Sherman in the later rounds, and that’s great.

              I realize that Rob has already stated he doesn’t expect a massive trade to happen, and this is primarily an interesting talking point, and I am not arguing that they won’t do it. They might, I don’t know. I am simply making the argument as to why they probably have never done so in the past. They have been more than willing to trade away their first round pick (to move down, on a Harvin or Graham) but never to trade multiple firsts for an untested rookie.

              They value their picks so much, it’s just hard to imagine them spending so many of them (especially when you consider how many players they normally draft after trading down several times from the first pick) on any one player.

              On the other hand, they used multiple picks trading up for Metcalf and for Lockett, so perhaps that is the precedent that matters. Maybe Simmons is just the right piece they think that will put their defense over the top, and take on the risk.

              It all comes down to their confidence in their projections. The one elite player (the Mahomes example used above) is probably worth your entire draft, or nearly so. If they could get Simmons (and he turns out to be the player they think) along with the rest of their picks, that could end up being a sensational draft.

              • BobbyK says:

                They trade picks more than they’re given credit for. According to most, all they do is always trade down and rarely trade away picks. They trade picks quite often. They traded a bunch to draft Lockett, traded three for Harvin, a couple good ones from D. Brown, and every training camp are always trading a few picks away, whether it’s to get a player they eventually cut (Seisay) or think/thought might work out (Coleman), want as a back-up (Hundley), want instant impact (Richardson), etc. They move up in the mid-rounds more than people think too – whether it’s trading up for Jesse Williams, QJeff, and plenty others.

                • mishima says:

                  IMO, they were active and aggressive when their window was wide open.

                  If they can address the pass rush and offensive line in free agency, this move would make more sense.

            • Rob Staton says:

              I never liked Curry. I let out a primal scream when they drafted him.

              Like I said, you can pick out a player who is a bust to conveniently argue against this. But you could just as easily say ‘Julio’ or ‘Von’ or ‘Garrett’ or ‘Luck’ or anyone else everyone liked.

              • Ghost Mutt says:

                The 2009 draft is an outlier too.

                Stafford went one, but after that the picks were:
                Jason Smith
                Tyson Jackson
                Aaron Curry
                Mark Sachez
                Andre Smith
                Darrius Heyward-Bay
                Eugene Monroe
                BJ Raji.

                Raji had a decent career, but it was a historically bad class. I always felt all of the “can’t miss” stuff around Curry was less about him as a prospect, and more about the media needing to choose a darling out of a pile of crap.

                He was a bust, but so were all of our other options. There’s no comparison between selecting a player in the top 10 in 2009 vs this class.

  21. Zeke says:

    FWIW beat reporter for the Jags says the Jags aren’t getting a 1st for Ngakoue:

    “they aren’t getting a first for 91. Idk where that has come from”
    “teams aren’t valuing him as much” (as Frank Clark)
    “I’m not just guessing when I say a first isn’t his market.”

    https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status/1234467878742691841
    https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status/1234507734608949249
    https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status/1234498764947238912

  22. dcd2 says:

    We know Simmons is a beast, both on film and at the combine. That’s what makes this so intriguing. There are so many question marks with so many front 7 defenders.

    We do need difference makers on defense, especially the DL. These prospects sure didn’t help us (themselves?) by skipping so many drills though. Marlon Davidson, Leki Fotu, Gipson, Gross-Matos, Kareem, Kinlaw, Lawrence, Madubuike, Okwara, Zuniga… None of them did any agility drills. So frustrating. Do we think that they’ll do them at their pro-days?

    Last year Maxx Crosby ran a 6.89 3-cone, 4.13 short shuttle, had a 36.0 vert and a 122.0 broad, He lasted until the 4th round.

    This year, those results would have been: 2nd, 1st, 1st, & 6th.

  23. For those who care it looks like Greg Olsens cap hit should be about $6.8 million. $5.5 guaranteed plus $1.5 million in incentives. $750k each for 46/53 roster. (14 ltbe)

    • House says:

      That’s about $1.7M more than we paid Ed Dickson last year and that dude never touched the field. We get any time out of Olsen and we’re already better off than last season.

  24. Sean says:

    Is there an argument to be made that the Seahawks should not try to fix their pass rush significantly this off-season?

    They definitely need to make at least one big signing (hopefully able to resign Clowney), but I am not sure anymore if the rest of the pass rush should be addressed heavily through free agency/trade..

    With the worst pass rush class in the last 10 years upon us, teams have to rely on free agency. This comes directly after a year where the 49ers laid a blueprint of being able to win with an elite 4 man rush. We know the NFL is a copycat league. A LOT of teams will be desperate for dline help in free agency not just the Seahawks.

    I know a lot of people have suggested going all in on the trade market for pass rush help. But the same logic holds here, the Seahawks are going to have to give up more than they normally would have to because of the scarcity of dline options this off season.

    This is simply the worst year in a long time to acquire pass rush help, which means the Seahawks should not force it cause it could easily result in bloated inefficient contracts that will bite us down the road.
    Maybe the better approach this offseason is to lock up one elite pass rush talent, and then use the rest of our resources on upgrading at more cost efficient position groups. Seahawks have a great 4-5 year window coming up, I would hate to see them force it early like this.

    Even with our trash pass rush and injury ridden team last year, we almost still made it to the NFC championship game. We will still be contenders next year even without a big pass rush splash in free agency, and will be super set up to succeed the next offseason, when hopefully we can have a big bounce back year on the pass rush options. Usually when a position group has an awful year in the draft, there is a bounce back the next year.

    Don’t get me wrong, obviously ifwe could get pass rush talent at a good rate, I would be all in on going after it this year. But this seems increasingly unlikely given what we have seen available at the draft.

    • Sean says:

      Just an example of what I am talking about. Instead of going for Dante Fowler, who we will have to probably pay an insane amount. Sign a guy like Derrick Henry, who we will probably not have to overpay because he is a running back and there are options in the draft for bad teams that need RB. Henry will be more valuable to the Seahawks than a lot of teams, so that is another reason he will be an efficient signing for us.

      • cha says:

        The total team gain realized by signing or trading for a pass rusher over the current roster absolutely dwarfs the gain realized the acquisition of Henry over Carson/Penny/Homer/Draft Pick. The Hawks would get a slight uptick in offense and then watch as the defense gets picked apart again.

        Just because the groceries will cost a little more doesn’t mean you should starve yourself.

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s fine not to try and address it… but then we also have to accept that this time next year we’ll all be a year old and the Seahawks won’t be back in the SB.

      • Sean says:

        I agree and I am fine with accepting that! Wish more fans were patient.

        • Mark Souza says:

          And one more year of RW’s career wasted, and Bobby’s, and Browns, and then we’ll have even more holes to fill with no guarantee we’re any better after the wait. No thanks.

  25. charlietheunicorn says:

    I could see a trade, with Denver.

    Let’s say Seattle trades 1st round pick #27 to Denver for Von Miller.
    Then Denver gives back a 2rd in return (#46) + Von Miller (and *majority of of his salary paid by SEA). This helps Denver reload quicker, give them some cap relief and helps SEA with on obvious need and chew up some cap space.

    If you are at day #2 of the draft with roughly #46, #59 and #64 picks. You could pick up a solid RB, WR and OL prospect. This could fall into the realm of a quality DT being available. I really like some prospects that could be available around this time of the draft. High quality WRs specifically.

    End of the day:
    You could realistically have Miller at one side, have Irvin as cost controlled rotational/back-up piece and have Clowney be your solid DE on the opposite side. Maybe you could swing the extra 2nd round pick to Jacksonville and bring in Campbell to anchor the DT spot. Very enticing if all these moving pieces worked out. JS would be “the man” if he pulled something similar to this off.

    • cha says:

      Are you saying Denver will trade Von Miller – Von Miller! – just to move up from the mid 2nd to the low first?

      • There is no way the Broncos give us Miller just to move up 19 spots.

        • House says:

          I don’t see that working out. It would take #27 and an additional pick to secure Miller. Also, it is worth noting that DEN just traded for A.J. Bouye for a 4th rd pick. DEN has a pass rush and is preparing for life after CB Harris. I don’t think DEN will be selling and of their good guys.

  26. charlietheunicorn says:

    Isaiah Simmons

    Which team just lost a very important piece in their defense and has a top pick.
    I understand the rational for OL pick, but I can easily see them restock the defensive shelves with this guy. I am talking about Carolina, with the loss of MLB Keuchly this offseason. This is definitely the team I would circle to watch as we get closer to draft and draft night.

    I guess the Lions and the Panthers are the greatest chance he gets picked really early… after that, he might slide a little bit. Cowboys feel like the floor he could slide to for me, they could use a piece like him in their defense.

    So from #3 -#17 is the window.

    • WALL UP says:

      It’s doubtful that he gets pass pick #4. There is a need to bolster the middle of the NYG Def. They just drafted Dexter Lawrence and it’s unlikely they duplicate the that with their 1st pick this year by picking Brown. Also, no OT warrants that high of a pick at #4.

      Frankly, the best player available is Simmons. He’s a game changer that you simply can not pass on.

      • Rob Staton says:

        On the contrary, Gettlemen spent a R1 pick on a DT at Carolina when he had Lotulelei and Short. He collects DT’s.

        • WALL UP says:

          The difference here is that we’re talking about Simmons, not just any high rated player on the draft board. We’re talking about the best player in the draft, possibly the R.O.Y. He’s a star marquee player that fits perfectly in the NY media mogul. Barkley and Simmons would be the toast of the town.

          Perhaps Gettlemen has learn from his past mistakes, knowing that he has a greater need at the LB position. Having Simmons patrol behind there (3) man front is just what will spark their Def. We’ll see.

  27. MaxC14 says:

    Does anyone know of a website or a blog where one is able to track which prospects have met with which teams?

  28. STTBM says:

    I agree with Rob, this is a big year for Seattle. I’m a worry wart, so the idea of trading up.st such a cost freaks me out. But if it lands a cornerstone player, it’s worth it.

    As Rob has pointed out, Clowney is much better vs the run than Clark, and far more versatile. While not quite the pass rushing DE Clark is, Clowney makes a bigger impact overall. I’m still hoping we sign him, and I’m ok with Clark money for him.but I am not convinced Seattle will commit enough guaranteed money to retain him…its a long wait for Free Gency…

  29. CHawk Talker Eric says:

    Would I trade 27 + 59 + R4 + 2021 R1 to move up enough to select Isaiah Simmons? Absolutely.

    Would I trade 27 + 59 + R4 to move up enough to select Javon Kinlaw? Yes probably.

    Would I use 27 to select one of Jonathan Taylor, Cesar Ruiz, Denzel Mims or Jalen Reagor? Maybe.

    Would I trade down from 27 for an extra R3 pick and take whichever of Taylor, Ruiz, Mims or Reagor falls (or maybe Isaiah Wilson)? Yeah probably.

    So many options. If they could find a way to land Simmons I think I’d want that the most. Otherwise, I’d also be happy if Kinlaw fell to the high teens and SEA trade 59 + their R4 to move up about 10 spots for him. But Simmons and Kinlaw are the only prospects I’d want to trade up for.

    If no trade up for Simmons or Kinlaw, then I think I want them to trade down instead of pick at 27. Ideally they would move down about 15 spots in exchange for a R3 pick. That’d give them 3 picks in R2 among the likes of Davis, Dugger, Wilson, Bryant, Aiyuk. And 2 picks in R3 for prospects like Peart, Chinn, Akers, Adeniji. And I’m not even listing all the options. This draft looks like it will have an amazing Day 2.

    • Trevor says:

      I agree completely either trade up for Simmons or trade back and get 5 picks in the range your discussed and I really like the collection of players you mention.

      For example if TB sign a QB they might want to move back into the first the first to take Eason or if SD misses out on a QB they could want to move up to grab Jordan Love. The Browns moving up to grab Ezra Cleveland if they go another route than LT with their 1st pick would be another scenario.

      The value in this draft seems like it is in the top 12 or from picks 40-80. After that it seems like it falls off a cliff and not nearly as deep a draft class as some other years. collecting as many pick as possible in Rds 2-4 or moving up to get an incredible talent like Simmons is definitely the route inhoe PC/JS take.

    • GoHawksDani says:

      I like all scenarios to some extent. My preference order would be this:
      1, Trade for Kinlaw (passrushers will be really costly in FA and he seems great). Good player, greatest need on this team
      2, Trade backand select Wilson, Ruiz, Raegor. If they all went then trade back again and select Bryant or Aiyuk, Hamler. If they all goner pick the best OL prospect or Raekwon Davis (mid 2nd round)
      3, Trade up for Simmons
      4, Stay put and draft Wilson/Ruiz/Raegor

      • bigten says:

        I’ve seen it said a few times now, but Kinlaw is not a DE, so he does not fill the greatest need on the team. Nor is he close to the player on tape that Simmons is. Id honestly rather trade back a bit and grab Raekwon if we are talking Dt, which Kinlaw is.

  30. EranUngar says:

    I must admit that you have me drooling over the possibility of having Simmons in blue and green.

    However, we have such a long list of urgent positions to man before we add a fantastic talent to our solid LBs group.

    I just can’t see them manning the DL and OL (and adding a weapon at WR3) in FA so trading up for Simmons will be at the expense of rebuilding the DL or adding a key piece to the OL.

    It’s really annoying since such a talent would be a pillar of strength for years to come.

    There is one point that keeps popping up – We are playing in a division that likes to stretch runs to the outside and the Seahawks did not do very well against it.

    It’s true. It is one of many issues the defense needs to face better next year.

    However, all those division teams never reached 30 points against out poor excuse for defense last year.

    We need to do better on defense but it is unrealistic to think we can mount a total shut down defense that can stop everything running or passing. If the only thing the 2020 defense will not do that well is stopping the stretch runs, I’ll be very very happy with the result.

    One of the sure ways to stop running plays is a prolific offense that can control the clock and score more to force teams to play from behind…

    • Rob Staton says:

      He’s not just a LB

      • drewdawg11 says:

        I keep hearing everyone say “but we have so many other needs”. In what draft other than 2010-12 have they addressed multiple positions that ended up being foundational players? If you want to watch them attempt to outsmart the room again by taking a Collier, Blair, a Gary Bryant Jr., Cody Barton and luck out finding a DK in the second round, have at it. This isn’t a trash the GM post. It’d a realistic one, defending a slightly unrealistic proposal. Under a similar trade scenario as the Julio and Mahomes deals, they could still be left with those second round picks. You’ll also have at least one fourth. I would even move back up with those again to get that tackle. You can definitely have a shot at Willie Gay Jr who still could fall, and a WR is still an option in this deep class. So… what’s better? A late first round/early second round flier, or bonafide star player, (potentially), and the chance to get more on top of that? Sure, next year will be weird but they’ll figure it out having a year to process that. Gets the studs in the facility and let’s get Russell some dawgs with which to hunt!

        • Simo says:

          It’s just hard to imagine John and Pete being this aggressive and taking this kind of approach, especially with no history of doing so. Sure, they have taken chances and traded significant draft stock with proven players like Harvin and Graham, but they haven’t ever moved up this high in the draft for a rookie.

          This is very much an “all in” type of move, and who knows, it could work out perfectly. However, if Simmons doesn’t turn into a superstar this is looked at as a costly failure.

          I still like the idea of an aggressive move though, but would rather see a trade for a proven player like Von Miller. Combine that trade with a FA addition of Griffen and resigning Clowney and you have fixed the pass rush problem in a big way!

        • EranUngar says:

          “Outsmart the room again by taking a Collier, Blair, a Gary Bryant Jr., Cody Barton and luck out finding a DK in the second round” – I stand corrected. It is always a pleasure to hear from someone with a broader view and knowledge of the of the team’s history.

          I guess Frank Clark & Lokett in 2015 are not foundational players or do they fall under the “lucky” category?

          What about Ifedi & Reed or Griffin & Carson?

          I even hold hope for the Penny, Green, Dissly, Flowers, Dickson & D. Jones….

          So – YES, it is a “trash the GM” cherry picking comment…

          • drewdawg11 says:

            You’re wrong, but you do you. How in the world can you call Frank foundational if he didn’t get a second contract? Penny? verdict is still way out. Will they pay Griffin? Lockett has stuck with the team. Flowers? One second while I admire that massive reach. Quantity isn’t always better. There are arguments for both sides, but how about you just admit that it would be nice to get a talent that we rarely get a chance to sniff drafting from the back of the draft. We have one year of seeing them have a high pick, and they most certainly didn’t trade out of 6, or even the Earl pick. We see them trade down because nobody is deemed a must-have in the later first round. Don’t miss the message here. You’re inferring what you want to read.

            • EranUngar says:

              Yes, when you draft great to begin with (2010-2012) you are cursed with drafting late in the 1st round for years to come and all those 1st round grade talents are long gone.

              You are forced into a numbers game hoping to hit on enough talent to carry on. If you are “lucky” (or smart) you end up with the Locketts, Clarks, Reeds, Carsons or even resort to a massive reach to draft a starting CB in the 4th round.

              If you don’t hit on those, you end up picking high again.

              I’m not against trading up for a quality player but not this year when this team has too many positions to man that Simmons can’t play. If we sort the DL in FA and you suggest a more modest trade up to catch the last of the quality OTs or top WRs i’d be very interested…

              • drewdawg11 says:

                Again, we aren’t a rebuilding, 5-11 team. This was a team who should have been division champion, with home field advantage. The injuries stunk, but most of those guys come back healthy. So adding a phenomenal, unique talent that we won’t ever have the chance to draft again is why it makes sense. If you don’t believe in the player, cool. Not everyone sees the same things. However, they’ll sign a couple of DL, then as Pete said, hope that flowers gets a year 3 bump, and they should be good to go with those second round picks to bolster what they do with Simmons.

        • mishima says:

          I don’t understand the argument that because we’ve drafted poorly, we should move up to certainty. Draft better.

          • EranUngar says:

            If we had indeed drafted that poorly we would not need to move up. We would be up already….

            • BobbyK says:

              This is a pretty poor team, overall, outside the QB position. The reason they aren’t drafting where the overall talent indicates they should is because of Russell Wilson. Instead of being a 12-4 team with some breaks with Russ (like a couple teams missing FGs to give Seahawks wins), this is definitely a 4-12 type of team with Geno Smith or any scrub backup like some of the bottom feeders have as starting QBs like Fitzmagic, the clown show in Washington, the Stafford-less Lions, a crappy fumbling rookie machine with the Giants, etc. (maybe 2-14 or 3-13). That’s why the call for more “superstars” because this is a team with a bad DL, marginal LB play aside from Wagner and a secondary that even Schneider acknowledged can/should/needs to be better moving forward. After the Dissly injury, the TEs weren’t good and after Lockett and DK… the depth at receiver was relatively miserable. I don’t buy the “woe is me because Josh Gordon, our #3 WR, got suspended.” When you claim a guy who is always in trouble for something and always suspended – it’s not like things like that should blindside you.

              • EranUngar says:

                “This is a pretty poor team” – I shutter to think how you would describe the 26 NFL teams that ended the season behind them with all the injuries they sustained….

                And, even KC would be 4-12 with Gino Smith at QB….

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Bobby’s point is — this isn’t a good roster and the quarterback covers a lot of warts.

                  And he’s correct.

                • BobbyK says:

                  KC was 1-1 without Mahomes, so I don’t believe for a second they’d be 3-11 with Geno or Matt Moore. They’d be at or close to .500 because of their superior roster to the Seahawks.

                  Rob is spot on about what I was trying to say – Wilson masks a lot of deficiencies from this roster. But the NFL is so competitive that there’s no reason they can’t be in the thick of things with free agency and a couple of cost effective impact rookies.

              • mishima says:

                Agree completely.

                Russell Wilson and John Schneider’s brilliant trades (D. Brown, Clowney, McDougald, Diggs) are propping up their record.

                IMO, they’ve drafted poorly for the OL and DL causing a decline in overall team talent.

  31. GoHawksDani says:

    OK, I came to terms with the idea. Still feel a bit tooooo bold for a position (either S or LB) that is not the worst, so I think this is somewhere close to a 5% chance scenario, but tbh I’d be excited.
    I wasn’t really excited in a long time for the Hawks draft (this is expected picking late R1, early R2). I liked their selections, but wasn’t mind-blown. I’d be pumped, and electric to see a potentially true game changer selected.
    Maybe I had some misconceptions about trading up. current year R1, R2, R4 next year R1 doesn’t seem too much of a price to trade up 20 spots. If Kinlaw is there around #12-13, I might move up for him too (R1, R3, next year’s R1), we could address DT (Davis) OL, WR, RB with R2, R2, R4 and R5 to some extent. We could re-sign Clowney, Reed and have a Clowney-Davis-Reed-Kinlaw front4.
    So while I’m 95% sure we won’t make a big trade-up (maybe a smaller one into the range #18-22), sign me up for that scenario. Not sure how it would affect the structure of our roster, but I’d definitely be pumped about our new guy

    • Ukhawk says:

      I like this thinking!

      Believe Kinlaw may go too early

      But how about a front seven of:

      Clowney-Davis-Ford-Kinlaw

      + Von/Fowler/Beasley/Irvin @ WLB/LEO
      + Wags
      + K.J. and Gay JR /Harrison

      Still think Dye might be a poor mans Isaiah Simmons and could get seasoned under K.J. @ WLB

    • EranUngar says:

      I have another Idea –

      Spend 35M (2020 cap) in FA to get 2 high quality DEs and a DT to sort the DL.

      Trade up using R1, R2 and 2021 R1/R2 to grab the last of the top OTs to play RT and move to LT when Brown is done.

      Use the remaining R2 pick + the extra 4th to move up in the 2nd round and get a quality WR3.

      The rest is gravy.

  32. Thanks for your site Rob. Seattle is going to do what they always do. How many 1st round guys are there really?. The Hawks always trade out of the 1st. Look at how game changing their 1st rounder was last year! All the cream will be gone by 27. I think they refuse to over-draft. Something to do with their religion. All your thoughts are interesting and I love all your Seahawks centered info.

    Late in the 2019 season, Seattle was in contention for 1st place in the division. How and where do they have to improve to take the final step? It doesn’t sound like defensive line is possible. They’ve already addressed the T/E position. If they can maintain the status-quo (unlike the Rams did) their improvement could come on the o/l and d/b’s. You cannot find players who are not in the draft. A w/r addition will force other teams to defend against the short passing game instead of jamming the run game. How many more points per game do they have to score to off-set the defensive line? Interesting time of the season….

    • Rob Staton says:

      It’s futile trying to focus on the OL or DB’s. If you can’t rush the passer, if you’re among the worst teams in the league in those categories. You will fail.

      • Doug Fletcher says:

        The fact the Seahawks often trade out of the first round based on their assessment of talent available makes me think Rob’s proposal makes some sense and could happen. If the Seahawks see Simmons as a ‘can’t miss’ huge upgrade for the D, then why not trade a basket of picks to get him? They have enough draft capital this year to still address needs on the OL at Guard, DT prospects, and WR. It is a great proposal and very thought-provoking from Rob!

      • EranUngar says:

        Rob, you can improve the pass rush in FA. We have enough 2020 cap to get 3 decent DL players (Clowney + DE,DT), with smart structured contracts.

        You can use the draft for the 2 best positions of this draft class – OL, WR. (perhaps trade up for a quality OT)

  33. Kingdome1976 says:

    Fun idea about Simmons. Can’t see it happening but he is my #1 player in this draft.

    Yannick is interesting though. I have always thought of him as a pretty disruptive player and I think he might be a kind-of Chris Clemmons for the Seahawks. Trade them a second rounder and give him 18 million per year and I’m down.

    • Rob Staton says:

      If they (reportedly) won’t pay 18-20 for Clowney or 21 for Clark, not sure why they’d pay 18 for a Ngakoue.

      • Kingdome1976 says:

        Where did they say we won’t pay Clowney 18-20?

        Also the Jags offered Yannick 19 mill per year and he refused.

        • Rob Staton says:

          A report yesterday.

          But we’ll see. Everything is posturing at the moment.

          • All I see is 12s says:

            I also think the Seahawks relatively low number may have something to do with what I referenced in Peter Kings article yesterday – generally speaking the willingness of NFL teams to “break the bank,” on a player who doesn’t amass lots of sacks and has perceived health concerns (real or not.) he may find his true NFL value to be less than he thought. I would expect a “leak” or posturing from his camp soon.

  34. Kingdome1976 says:

    PFF has Yannick with the 4th most forced fumbles. You know how Pete loves turnovers.

  35. Kingdome1976 says:

    In general it seems like Jags fans don’t want to lose Yannick. They don’t think he a 20 mil per year player but he’s upper teens.

    They also think he is better than Fowler Jr. I’ve seen many posts about Campbell starting to look like a rotation type player as well but others think he has a year left in him.

    Basically they are whining about all the young studs wanting to leave the team I think.

  36. Sea Mode says:

    OL trade targets?

    Was thinking of Glenn as maybe a draft hedge/stopgap at RT, but he plays LT in CIN. Bengals would have no dead money if they cut him, and if they trade him I believe they would eat $7.5m in dead money and the new team would have him at $2m for 2020.

    JennaLaineESPN
    @JennaLaineESPN
    · 18h
    Two players I’m told are being shopped around, per sources in Indy: Cordy Glenn (Bengals) and Trai Turner (Panthers). If no trade partner can be found, Glenn would be released.

    Per Breer (MMQB)

    At this point, I think the Bengals would take a bag of pylons and a stopwatch for Cordy Glenn. That player/team relationship was fractured beyond all recognition last year. It’s hard to be certain of many things this time of year, but I’m certain that Glenn has played his last game for Cincinnati.

    Field Yates
    @FieldYates
    ·17h

    Panthers G Trai Turner has been to the Pro Bowl five straight seasons, is just 26 years old and under contract for two more years for $20.5M. Very desirable trade target.

  37. Sea Mode says:

    Love the trade scenario. But then again, I’m always one to advocate for trading up early and it seems to never happen… 😁 But I love to dream of a difference-maker on this defense. And if there were ever a year when we already have extra picks to make it happen without setting us back, this would be it.

    Yes, Simmons is unique, 20 lbs heavier than the other two SS, 4 inches bigger wingspan, and a better player, but there are a couple consolation prizes to be had a bit later if we choose. Not saying they are as good, just looking at other options:

    Simmons: 6035, 238, 33 3/8 arm, 81 7/8 wing, 4.39 40yd, 39 vert, 11’0″ broad
    Je. Chinn: 6030, 221, 32 1/8 arm, 77 5/8 wing, 4.45 40yd, 41 vert, 9’10” broad
    KDugger: 6007, 217, 32 7/8 arm, 78 1/2 wing, 4.49 40yd, 42 vert, 11’2″ broad
    WillieGay: 6011, 243, 32 5/8 arm, 77 7/8 wing, 4.46 40yd, 39.5 vert, 11’4″ broad
    B.Wagner: 6003, 241, 33 0/8 arm, –N/A– wing, 4.46 40yd, 39.5 vert, 11’0 broad

    Imagine if we trade up for Simmons and then get Gay Jr. in late R2 when he falls due to off-field concerns. Simmons, Wagner, Gay Jr. behind our defensive front… talk about adding speed and aggression to our defense! That would let us move on from KJ (and possibly Kendricks) and allocate that cap space to OL. I could see that.

    • Simo says:

      Would love the additions of Simmons and Gay to the defense, but adding faster linebackers doesn’t fix their worst problem, a poor pass rush. Can’t rely on the same defensive front and new linebackers to provide more pressure, they have to add more talent up front.

      If they make a trade up for Simmons, they will probably be unable to trade for a veteran pass rusher. So, it kind of feels like a one or the other play here. Now if they can fix the pass rush via free agent additions, then by all means this is the year they may consider an aggressive trade up.

      • SonGoku says:

        If they are able to add Griffen and Beasley to pair them with Clowney and get a quality DT/re-sign Reed, the D-Line should be ok. Just imagine Simmons, Wagner and Gay Jr behind them…

      • Sea Mode says:

        Pass rushers in FA, speedy LBs in the draft. That’s the idea.

    • Trevor says:

      Seamode that trio of LB would ridiculously fast, physical and exactly what teams are looking for. Most teams would kill to have one guy like that. I think having 3 of them would give this defence the chance to go from awful to elite.

  38. drewdawg11 says:

    In response to Yannick, he’s going to get at least $19 million per based on that franchise tag number. He’s aiming for higher, but that may be the floor. Glenn, man if he could just stay healthy… but he can’t. Age doesn’t make him more likely to stay healthy.

  39. Marc Edge says:

    Two words: Taylor Mays.

    • drewdawg11 says:

      What about Taylor Mays? If you’re comparing him to Simmons, nope. Mays wasn’t even that good of a football player at any level. He was just tall and fast. Watched him in high school and a bunch of us left that game saying “was he really that good?” Some said he would develop in college. Some of us said “zero instincts.” I was one of those guys. Simmons is a great player who happens to be a freak athlete.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Simmons is not remotely like Taylor Mays.

    • mishima says:

      Tight hips.

  40. Kenny Sloth says:

    Trade up for John Taylor to own the nerds

    • drewdawg11 says:

      Or just own the division. I’m cool with that so long as it’s not a huge jump up.

    • D-OZ says:

      Rob, I posted on Simmons. I don’t know if it was after the Ravens or 49er’s loss. I don’t know how to re-post anyway. Maybe you can find it. Old school guy… 🙂

  41. Sea Mode says:

    Per Kimberly Jones [emphasis added by me]:

    Best NFL role for the “Swiss Army Knife”? The football fate of Clemson do-everything Isaiah Simmons will be fascinating.

    At Clemson this past season, he played 106 snaps on the defensive line, 239 in the box, 256 as a slot cornerback, seven as a wide cornerback and 130 as a deep safety, according to Pro Football Focus.

    Former Carolina Panther Thomas Davis, who was in Indianapolis, told me he believes Simmons’ best position will be weak-side linebacker. When he entered the league as a first-round pick in 2005, Davis also was versatile, a possible safety who eventually found a great home at linebacker.

    One GM, who will not have the opportunity to draft Simmons, said the team that does “will have to have a plan” on how to use him and that simply embracing his versatility will not work.

    Simmons, who ran a 4.39 40, considers himself a “Swiss Army Knife” player. When asked what position he plays, Simmons gave a simple answer: “Defense.”

    “You always want to do more,” Davis said, “but when you are that talented, you can do a lot within the scheme and do a lot even at one position.”

    • Simo says:

      If there is a sentiment around the league that there has to be a specific plan for how to use Simmons, and teams aren’t sure what his best position will be, perhaps teams in the 3-15 draft range go a different direction. It’s just so much more realistic to trade up from 27 to 15 or so instead of into the top 5.

      And are we convinced Norton (or Pete) can identify the correct plan for how to use him? He doesn’t strike me as a particularly innovative DC.

      • cha says:

        That’s what I was alluding to in my post at the top of this thread.

        I seem to recall a lot of fan confusion about the way they handled Irvin. Moving him around a lot, and maybe he was effective doing that – open to interpretation I suppose – but it felt like he wasn’t being as effectively utilized as he could be.

      • Thorson says:

        This also would be my main concern – Simmons is unquestionably a unique talent but is Norton (or Pete) the guy(s) who will figure out how best to use him? Moving up for Simmons would most likely require a massive outlay of resources. It’s unfortunately not difficult to imagine him ending up being good not great in any system where he isn’t utilized to his fullest.

        • Bmseattle says:

          While I’d love to get a talent like Simmons, I agree with those who are skeptical that Pete will suddenly employ a “swiss army knife” on his defense.
          It’s not that he isn’t smart enough to do it… just that it doesn’t fit his defensive philosophy.

          Everyone has their role in Pete’s defense. Has he *ever* utilized a player in the way we are proposing Simmons would be best used.
          Maybe Pete is more open to the idea at this point in his career, but I’m not holding my breath.

          • EranUngar says:

            People seem to forget how versatile PC is. We think of the Seahawks defense as a single high cover 3 defense but that was a reaction to the type of players they had – Earl could play single high and Kam was a beast suitable to play down in the box.

            PC came from the Tampa 2 tree and started playing 2 safeties in Seattle. He later morphed it into a single high because it was a better use of the talent he had (put players in a position to succeed).

            I’m sure he would find the perfect system to use a talent like Simmons.

    • Matt says:

      This gives me hope that he could be available at a realistic trade up spot.

      Him being able to do several things can be somewhat of a curse for teams that are in rebuild mode. These teams need a couple seasons to “plan” and build a roster. Sometimes it’s easier when guys have a set role. I firmly believe that is why Derwin James fell a bit.

      Wishful thinking? Of course.

  42. Sea Mode says:

    Also, though it may matter less now that Cable’s no longer around, Ezra Cleveland has a wrestling background.

    • Volume12 says:

      That’s the thing. Cable and Solari don’t look for the same things. They might like some of the same things. Seattle made a change for a reason. Are we sure Solari values athleticism over size for example?

      • mishima says:

        For guards, they’ve gone for size (Fluker, Iupati) and athleticism (Haynes, Sweezy), but also, value and experience. I suspect run blocking > pass blocking, also. I don’t see them spending on an OG.

        Brown, Ifedi and Fant predate Solari, but they’ve run JaMarco Jones out there against Chandler Jones, so… How they replace Ifedi will be interesting and telling.

  43. Eburgz says:

    Anyone like the idea of Jalen Hurts as a backup to Russell Wilson? He’d be an affordable backup and he has A++ football character. Looked good throwing the ball at the combine and he’s going to keep working to get better no doubt.

    • God of Thunder says:

      Only if he goes undrafted. 😉

      Joking aside, he’ll go R2. We need our R2 picks. Need. Big time need.

  44. Trevor says:

    Another reason the trade up for Simmons makes a ton of sense for a team that is a potential contender next year is because he plays a position where he can have a significant impact year #1.

    Look at the impact Derwin James had year #1. The used him in multiple spots in the secondary and as a blitzing pass rusher, much like teams would likely use Simmons. He played at an All Pro level and took that Chargers defense to the next level. The had a significant drop off this year when he go hurt.

    Simmons is a better player, more athletic and more versatile than James. If Simmons could have the kind of impact on the Hawks that James had on the Chargers then he would make them an SB contender in all likelihood next year assuming they address the pass rush and RT in free agency.

    Agree with Rob completely on this one. Don’t think it will happen but that is not saying it shouldn’t.

  45. Im really starting to wonder if the Seahawks will just go with addition (multiple pass rushers) to the defensive line versus bigger names? Maybe just adding some guys who could only play 50 % of the snaps and just have a large rotation more like they did in 2013. Maybe add guys like Irvin and Quinn and maybe Campbell to go along with Green Collier, Ford, maybe Suh, draft pick? Just a thought as I seriously dont think they want to pay big money to a DE. Maybe Im way off base but it is a possibility.

    • mishima says:

      I’ve felt this way throughout. Think they’ll balk at paying over $20m APY for Clowney, others. Maybe add a Griffen, Quinn, Beasley or Lawson. Not sure I agree with this approach, but could see it happen.

    • Trevor says:

      I could see that happening for sure because I could see a team making a ridiculous offer to Clowney.

    • Simo says:

      Hopefully they choose a mix of big name pass rusher combined with other good complimentary players. So, a mix of Clowney and Griffen/Quinn. Or, Von Miller with Armstead/Reed.

      Doubt they will go with two big names such as Clowney and Ngakoue, just to costly.

    • Volume12 says:

      That’s why this EDGE not popping was disheartening.

      1.It’s what Seattle needs

      2. If they aren’t available in the draft, the price for a Clowney goes through the roof.

      OTOH, the pro days. Hardly any of the LEOs or rush ends tested. 1 or 2 are are surely gonna turn up.

    • schnrb02 says:

      Perhaps someone like Jordan Jenkins (Jets OLB) would be an option at LEO? 6-3, 250#, 34+ arms, 1.58 10yd, 15 sacks and 4 FF the past 2 seasons, 26 at the start of 2020 season. Kyler Fackrell too?

  46. SebA says:

    What are your thoughts on Javelin Guidry, Rob? His 4.29 40 and 21 bench press reps must put him in the athletic freak category the Seahawks like.

  47. dcd2 says:

    Dontari Poe (CAR-DT) expected to be a FA. Former #11 pick & 2nd team all-pro. Coming off a quad injury that cost him most of last year and he is 30 years old.

    Clowney/Reed/Poe/Griffen

    I could see this as a pretty big upgrade to last year, that won’t cost >$45m

    • GoHawksDani says:

      It’d cost more than 45m
      Clowney: 20m minimum (but more like 23-24m)
      Reed: 10m minimum (but maybe 12m)
      Griffen: 10m minimum (but more like 12-14m)
      Poe: 7m minimum (but more like 9-10m)

      So I don’t think under 45m is reasonable for this group. 45-47m maybe, but I feel like they’d cost more towards 58m)

  48. drewdawg11 says:

    I would be perfectly alright with a DT rotation of Poona, Danny Shelton, re-sign All Woods to low dollars, and draft a guy. Mix of youth and veterans, won’t cost much, can handle the run pretty well. If they like Collier, move he and Green inside on passing downs. Still have to find those ends.

  49. bigten says:

    Rob, thinking about the last time this happened, would you consider Davenport to be a bust? Or how would you evaluate that trade. I dont see the Saints falling even with him not lighting the world on fire. I love the idea, and dont see it as big of a risk as most people are arguing it is. Especially if its just 2 firsts and a 3rd/4th.

  50. cha says:

    Jacksonville just traded AJ Bouye to Denver for a 4th round pick.

    Tom Pelissero
    @TomPelissero

    The #Jaguars had a lot of interest in A.J. Bouye, who goes to Denver for a 2020 4th-round pick (as
    @AdamSchefter
    said) in a deal that clears $13 million in cash and over $11.4M in cap space off the books this year for Jacksonville.

    • Von says:

      Interesting.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Just saw that and was gonna post. That’s great news, may mean they are looking to stockpile picks and rebuild around Minshew.

      Calais…👀

      • DC says:

        If they’re liking 4th round picks, then you’ve got yourselves a deal there Jags.

        • Let the trading begin. These next couple weeks should be fun. If they are trading guys it may be possible that Campbell could be on the block as well.

          • TomLPDX says:

            I’m wondering what they are going to do about Foles. Read an Florio article earlier about him going to the Colts. That would be interesting…

            • Sea Mode says:

              Obviously they are looking to trade him, but his $88m contract will be the problem. So I would expect them to get a mid-round pick in return.

              Benjamin Allbright
              @AllbrightNFL

              Jags aren’t done.

              Shopping Foles as well.

              Jags were prepared to cut Bouye, Broncos offered draft capital left over from Emmanuel Sanders trade so they wouldnt have to bid on open market.

              10:02 PM – Mar 3, 2020

              Some even suggested they might try to package Foles with Ngakoue in an attempt to move his contract. Interesting thought, for sure.

      • Sea Mode says:

        Jason La Canfora
        @JasonLaCanfora
        · 1h

        Jags were a team other teams most wanted to talk at combine, as we noted. Beyond Bouye trade there is interest in Campbell, Linder, Norwell, though return likely not great. Moving Foles likely impossible from what I gather unless Jags goose pot by including a decent pick

      • Sea Mode says:

        In favor of a rebuild, the SB Nation Jags writer thinks it was a good deal for them and mentions how much draft stock they already have this year:

        All in all, it’s a great deal for the Jaguars — they were going to likely cut Bouye anyway and now they have a high fourth round draft pick for their efforts.

        The Jaguars will now have two first-round sections, two fourth-round selections, and two sixth-round selections heading into April. They currently select on picks: 1, 20, 42, 73, 116, 134, 166, 189, 206, 224

        This other blogger (Hays Carlyon), however, sees the opposite of a re-build happening. He says they are win-now:

        Jaguars owner Shad Khan elected to retain eighth-year general manager Dave Caldwell and fourth-year coach Doug Marrone, despite their poor results. Caldwell is 38-77 overall (including the playoffs). Marrone is 8-20 in his last 28 games with an overall record of 24-29 counting the playoffs.

        That forces the Jaguars into a win-now mentality.

        I’m going to present my plan for the Jaguars off-season based on what Khan wants – win now.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Wow, looks really good and like he very well might have the physical profile. Have you read up on him at all? How did he end up at MTSU?

      • He has 6.5 career sacks though, not much production.

      • WALL UP says:

        There hasn’t been much production in his stay @ MTSU in terms of numbers. But, the talent is all there. He has the ideal ingredients for the edge, speed, length and a nonstop motor. More importantly, he’s hungry and a malleable type ball player. You may have use a 4th in order to obtain him though. But, he is worth the risk.

  51. Sea Mode says:

    Hmmmm…

    So, I randomly decided this evening to join all SB nation blogs for all NFL teams in case I ever wanted to ask a question of another team’s fans in the comments. And as I went page to page I happened upon something interesting for two reasons.

    First, it’s a Kenneth Arthur article… on the Raiders blog?! Apparently he writes for them now. Whatever.

    Second, and more interestingly, said article asks the question: “Is there any player worth trading up for?” Take a wild, wild guess which player he focused in on…

    https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2020/3/3/21162235/raiders-draft-trade-up-options-2020

    • Sounds like a rip off. Also how do you go for writing and being a fan for one team to another? Unless he isnt a Seahawks fan?

      • TomLPDX says:

        Different conference. NFC vs. AFC, although, since we started out in the AFC West and the Raiders were public enemy #1, I can’t see it.

        • DC says:

          The Raiders were public enemy #2 for the bulk of our AFC West tenure.

          Horse face was the great satan…

          • BobbyK says:

            I actually liked/respected horse face. The Raiders were the team I hated from those years.

          • TomLPDX says:

            I don’t hate the Broncos or the Chiefs as much as I am a raider hater! 🙂 I actually like those teams because they were good competitors

      • Sea Mode says:

        He explains it at the beginning of the article (his first on their site).

      • LLLOGOSSS says:

        A) some people have a history of ripping this blog off………

        And B) Ken was forced to stop writing for FieldGulls due to some new laws. He lives in California, and is now syndicated on SB Nation, I believe.

    • Group Captain Mandrake says:

      Says at the top of the article that he’s just filling in during some sort of transition. I think Rob should check his laptop for spyware though. Seems like ol’ Kenny might be keeping tabs on him if he’s writing basically the same idea. Maybe we should all get him that new laptop now.

  52. LLLOGOSSS says:

    No on Ngakoue. He might be worth the pick, but not the money. He’s not elite; just quite good.

    I’d feel better about making a big play for Simmons if the front office had a real strong vision for how to utilize him. Obviously they would have that if they pulled the trigger, but I have no reference point for his skillset(s) in this defense; a player who can perform at all three levels… Finding ways to let him impact the game could verge on gimmicky. Somehow, identifying a consistent role seems a safer bet.

    His versatility would be a great problem to have, but the question is is it worth the price? Other players you mentioned (Aaron Donald, Julio Jones) I think you can definitely say we’re worth that kind of draft capital. I don’t have the same comfort level with Simmons at this stage.

    • Sea Mode says:

      I thought Rob laid out a potential plan pretty clearly. He plugs in at WILL to replace KJ and then can be tasked with covering TEs or Big WRs when matchup dictates.

      • TomLPDX says:

        I still think KJ has a solid year left in the tank (yes, I’m a KJ homer and love him), allowing for Simmons to not only spell KJ but to also fill in for Kendricks role and also get on the line and put pressure directly on the QB. The more I’ve thought about this the more excited I’ve gotten…if only!

  53. Henry Taylor says:

    Forgive me if i’ve missed him being mentioned as a target in the combine article or elsewhere, I don’t remember if so.

    But for a late round RB target, what about Rico Dowdle SC. 5’11, 213lbs, 4.54 40 and a 38″ vert, 10’7 broad. Looks to have some nice moves from a very quick bit of tape search.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjysRkGKXlE

    • WALL UP says:

      This is a really good draft for RBs as well, not just WR & OL. Dowell would fit well in the RB room for the Hawks.

  54. Andy J says:

    Why would you not want us to trade up for Javon Kinlaw?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Aside from the lack of any testing information because he decided the combine wasn’t for him.

      I’ve said in two articles now that there’s only one player… in eleven years… that I’ve pitched trading up for. And that’s because Isaiah Simmons is special.

      I’m not trading up for good, or very good.

  55. Submanjoe says:

    It’s a fun thought to trade up for Simmons. I agree it’s unlikely. What about the same trade package for Jamal Adams instead of Simmons? Unlikely, but a fun thought.

    I still think the Seahawks will go after low budget pass rushers, tier 2 and 3 guys they can coach up, who have room to improve. They won’t be put off by the Ansah bust. In that case a trade seems realistic. I guess Seattle thinks Clowney should resign for something like 4 years and 70 million. Which seems unlikely.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I like Jamal Adams. But upgrading at strong safety isn’t worth a haul of picks.

      I don’t know where people get the idea the Seahawks go ‘low budget’ anything. They’ve been the most aggressive team in the NFL for 10 years.

      • Submanjoe says:

        The situation with Clowney is unique. Hard to say what they’ll do. They couldn’t resign him last fall, they haven’t been in that situation before. Usually they take care of the guys they want to keep and those guys don’t hit free agency. If they cannot keep Clowney, I’ll be surprised if they pay top dollar to a guy who’s never been a Seahawk before. When have they done that on defense under PCJS?

        • Rob Staton says:

          Well why would they when they drafted the best defense in NFL history and paid them?

          They might not have paid ‘top dollar’ to a player but they spent a high R2 pick for one year of Sheldon Richardson. That was plenty expensive.

          Look, it’s as simple as this. The Seahawks are going to fix this bloody pass rush this off-season. With or without Clowney. It’s happening. We only have to wait another 12-13 days to find out how it’ll get done. But it will be.

          • Submanjoe says:

            Totally agree. And I’m excited to see what they do. And I also agree a trade is more probable than not this year, for a pass rusher, maybe for some other surprise.
            I would really like for them to hit the jackpot whether by trade or draft or surprise free agent signing and find a guy they develop who they can resign and give the d line continuity for 5 years, ala Bennett Avril etc. I want the guy who’s busting for a chance to show he can be a big time player, ala Bennett. The next Bennett

  56. Rob Staton says:

    After that combine, and with the way this market is shaping up — to me increasingly it seems like a case of when not if the Seahawks make some kind of trade in the veteran market for a pass rusher.

  57. BobbyK says:

    Its never any good to look back and regret… but… I promise I’ll only say this once until the draft…

    After the Steve Hutchinson poison pill being the most mad I’ve ever been at the Seahawks this century…

    The second most mad I’ve ever been is when they passed on TJ Watt three years ago. I’m still sick about what “could/should have been.” There were a number on the blog who were dead sold on that being the pick, Rob included.

    I mainly bring it up because my initial reaction to Rob writing about trading up for Simmons (thinking he’d mostly transition to WILL) was similar to the Seahawks not taking Watt. They may be set there for this upcoming season (Seahawks with KJ at WILL) but moving forward long-term and knowing Simmons is clearly a stud player for a decade; Same as knowing what Watt would do. I’ve rarely ever been as sold on a player as Watt going into a draft and in this scenario – he was there for the taking… no trading up or anything. Okay… off my chest… again… focus on 2020…

    • BobbyK says:

      I take back being as sold on a player… I meant sold on a player available for the Seahawks when they picked. It was easy to be sold on a Bosa or Zeke/Barkley, but guys the Seahawks could realistically get when the pick got to them.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think the following about that 2017 draft:

      1. They possibly felt they needed an interior force and had decided, one way or another, they were going to address that.

      2. They possibly fell in love with Malik McDowell’s upside and simply made their mind up that they were going to draft him, knowing they could manipulate the board and still get ‘their guy’.

      3. The Calais Campbell situation that year maybe choked them. He was a free agent. They were possibly thinking they could add him. We know how much they like him. Then Jacksonville offered him an insane contract. If they were disappointed with the inability to get Campbell, it’s somewhat understandable they then targeted someone who they believed could have a similar impact.

      4. They still had Bennett, Avril and Clark in 2017. So it’s also understandable why they perhaps felt like adding an interior compliment rather than a fourth wheel. I do think Watt, in Seattle, would’ve been an EDGE.

      One thing I do remember about the 2017 draft is right at the end of the 2016 season, in my first post after they lost in Atlanta in the playoffs, I wrote they needed an interior rusher as a priority. Then by draft time, despite never solving that issue, I was talking about adding Watt or Tyus Bowser. After they took McDowell, I acknowledged the error. I think I let the draft sway me away from what, right after the season, felt like the biggest area of need. And they clearly felt that considering they not only drafted McDowell but then they traded for Sheldon Richardson to replace him.

      Even so, Watt had everything. Size, +33 inch arms, 1.5 10-yard split, amazing short shuttle (the same as Nick Bosa), explosive traits, production, bloodlines. I can’t believe he lasted to #30.

      • DC says:

        That Calais Campbell contract would have been worth every penny. He was exactly what we needed. No telling whether he would have chosen to come here.

        Can’t change the past but I’d like to get 1 great year of his services.

        • Rob Staton says:

          They couldn’t afford him in 2017 though.

          • DC says:

            Campbell had a $10,500,000 cap hit in 2017.
            Richardson had a $6,757,000 cap hit in 2017.

            If Seattle reeeeeallllllly wanted to get it done & CC was willing, they probably could have found/made enough space.

            It matters not…

            • John_s says:

              Seattle was so close to the cap that year they didn’t even put Chancellor on IR because they didn’t have enough cap space to sign a new player.

              There’s no way they could’ve gone $10 mil that year

            • Rob Staton says:

              No, they couldn’t DC. They had barely any cap room. Not just in 2017 but over the next three years. This was pre reset remember.

      • BobbyK says:

        I remember us talking about that. How this guy was pretty much guaranteed to be a top 10-15 type of pick had he stayed in school another year. The foresight was take the guy now because you’re essentially getting a top 10 pick with a pick at the end of the round. That’s BPA, too. But, yes, they did (and still do) want that DT… but, man, getting what we said prior was a slam dunk pick like Watt doesn’t happen very often when you’re always picking in the 20s-30s. And to think part of the reason he lasted so long was because a year prior he had torn his ACL but he’d played a full season after the injury. I remember writing and thinking that this guy could be a stud MLB, ILB, OLB, EDGE… somewhat similar to what you’ve been saying about Simmons. He’s so good/talented that he could actually bust at a position but still be great somewhere else. Those guys are rare. Anyway, just another of the many examples where you were clearly ahead of the curve. You have so many more swings and hits – than swings and misses. Nobody is perfect and sometimes others only ever want to focus on the negative, but as I said the other day… damn, you’re track record of being ahead of the curve in comparison to other media people is so impressive. Guys like Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, TJ Watt, Nick Chubb, Christian Kirk, Jarrad Davis, … It’s just so obvious the list has so many more hits than misses. Many talk a good game (especially media who parrot what others say and always change their minds) but this website is insane in terms of actual content that is proven legit later on. And it’s obvious based on the following you have here.

    • drewdawg11 says:

      I was just as angry about passing on Buddha after trading down, then taking the guy I said “don’t draft this kid at point” in Malik. Baker went to the cardinals the very next pick and he’s an all-pro now. Ouch. I liked a lot of players in that draft who were available, (King, Ramczyc, Kamara, Watt). I had one guy who I felt would bust and unfortunately… now I’m upset again. 😂

      • BobbyK says:

        I know! I need to forget about that draft! Maybe when TJ retires. lol

        I will admit – I didn’t think Ramczyk would be as good as he’s become. And, yes, Baker being another of the many guys Rob is generally ahead of the curve for.

  58. drewdawg11 says:

    Rob, I’ve been trying to figure this out. I saw a bob Condotta tweet which said that he his contract would count 17.5 million, but is there any dead money that the jags pick up? Maybe like 2.5 million? That’s a lot of money but the market may explode. It’s a one year transaction like Clowney, But they could always try to re-sign him/extend him to lower the cap hit. It’s almost a given that they need to restructure Britt and K.J. to make sure that they can make this defensive overhaul happen.

  59. drewdawg11 says:

    That settles it. He’s a bargain. Get him. I just don’t want to give up a first. For a second? Sign me up.

  60. Kenny Sloth says:

    AJ Dillon met with the Hawks. Might be time to take him more seriously as a potential target.

    He’d be an upgrade on Turbin/Prosise/Davis role. Maybe not as versatile through the air, but sounds like we want to get Penny and Carson receiving touches

    • charlietheunicorn says:

      I’m all for getting this “cement truck” in Seattle. 6’0″ 247 is a load. You can bash fools inside…. and make up for a slightly less potent OL… if they swap out some parts. #1 SPARQ RB and is 1.8 SD from mean RB in NFL. This guy is a legit freak of nature.

      I think his nickname is Sauce…. since he puts sauce onto everything. Of course, the immediate comparison was Eddy Lacy (size wise)! by the 710 talking heads.

      • Lewis says:

        Man, he doesn’t look that big on tape.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          Nah, carries it well, runs real low, good balance. I’d want to see what our training staff makes of him and what the team thinks his ideal play size is.

          I don’t think he’s a star, but he looks capable of being a +Mike Davis maybe with some growing pains in the passing game

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’ll warn everyone for the first time this year… don’t read too much into ‘meetings’.

      • Kenny Sloth says:

        They switch up sometimes, but it has been a really useful way to find targets. You think AJ Dillon is a smokescreen?

        He’s explosive, sparqy, smash-mouth, BAMF, regardless of the meeting he’s an obvious Seahawk RB, at least as depth. I don’t think he’ll be anything special but this team doesnt always draft special guys with every pick.

        I might caution some to not read so much into the history of PCJS RB physique. Pete loves a big back even if his team hasn’t drafted one.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I don’t think it’s a smokescreen or a tell.

          The teams meet up with loads of players for a variety of reasons. We as fans always read too much into it.

      • Ukhawk says:

        I would guess that 40-50% of the guys they draft or sign as an undrafted, FA they have met or had for a visit.

        However I think they interview many more and probably sign ~10-15% of total prospects they’ve met

  61. drewdawg11 says:

    I’ve sort of warmed to Cam Akers. Dillon is pretty good, though. He won’t be taken as high as Cam.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      Does anybody actually want to draft an RB high again, though. You might have to overdraft someone like Dillon if you want to get in on the third tier of backs

      • Ukhawk says:

        Nope. I agree. Higher priorities with early picks but..

        We need one to hedge injury/ pending free agency as it’s a big part of our offense but we can do it later or in free agency.

        Chris Carson was 7th round and he isn’t too bad…

        • Pugs1 says:

          With Carson and Penny coming off of injuries plus with Carson’s pending 2021 FA (IMO they don’t resign Carson). You can go ahead and put me in the camp of being totally cool with Taylor @27 or a after a small trade down. Cam Akers or CEH in the second or any other back they want to take on day three. IMO RB is at least a moderate need for 2020 and this draft might be an opportunity to add a potential “superstar” because of the way the board falls.

          • Rob Staton says:

            It’s too early to say what they’ll do with Carson. That will be determined in 2020. But it’s important to remember how much they like him and think he is integral to this team.

            But Pete likes a stable. Thus drafting Michael when they had Marshawn, or drafting Penny when they had Carson.

            • Pugs1 says:

              I love Carson but I’m not sure I trust him health wise to pay him what he’s worth. I guess I was trying to say I won’t have a meltdown if the Hawks pick a back early.

        • drewdawg11 says:

          Love Chris and love where they got him. However, it is important to remember why he fell. Never stayed healthy in college and never had a breakout season. He was available in round 7 because he was rarely available in college for long stretches.

          • BobbyK says:

            He’s totally the opposite of a guy like Taylor. Both are great RBs who have a hard time hanging onto the ball all the time. But Taylor is the ultimate bell cow and although Carson can be in spurts – you know fully well that based on his history that he’ll never have a fully healthy season. If he does, you know it’s not the standard.

            Taylor like kind of like Marshawn Lynch in terms of durability. Carson not so much.

  62. GoHawksDani says:

    Thought about a scenario of free agency and draft when we would get Simmons:

    Cut:
    Ed Dickson, Tedric Thompson, Nick Bellore, Naz Jones, Delano Hill
    Cut/trade:
    KJ Wright
    Restructure/cut and re-sign:
    Justin Britt (from 11m CAP hit to 6m)

    Based on OTC, current CAP space is 44m, with those cuts and moves, it’d be 64m
    For the draft and IR and some ERFA team probably needs like 8m. So usable CAP would be 56m

    Re-sign:
    Clowney: 4 years 23m avg, 96m total, 60m GTD (16m/16m, 22m/20m, 26m/15m, 28m/9m)
    Jarran Reed: 1 years 10m, total GTD
    Jacob Hollister: original round tender 2m
    Fant or Ifedi: 3 years 12m, 36m total, 15m GTD (10/9m, 14/6m, 12/0m)

    These moves cost: 38m, still has 18m available

    Sign:
    Everson Griffen 2 years 13m avg, 26m total, 20m GTD (10/10m, 16/10m)
    Danny Shelton 3 years 7m avg 21m total, 10m GTD (5/5m, 7/4m, 9/1m)

    Still have like 3m remained. We could get some cheaper vets to fill the depth at some positions of need.

    Draft:
    Trade #27 + #59 + R4 + R7 + 2021 R1 + 2021 R2 for #7 + R6 + 2021 R3
    Hawks picks:

    #7 (R1) – Isaiah Simmons (LB, Clemson)
    #64 (R2) – RT (Isaiah Wilson – Georgia or Austin Jackson – USC or Ezra Cleveland – Boise State or Matt Peart – Connecticut or Prince Tega Wanogho – Auburn. Whoever might be available)
    #103 (R3 comp) – WR (Devin Duvernay -Texas or Chase Claypool – Notre Dame or Bryan Edwars – South Carolina or Justin Jefferson – LSU or Van Jefferson – Florida. In this order, who is available)
    #145 (R5) – CB (Micheal Ojemudia – Iowa or Kindle Vilor – Georgia Southern)
    #155 (R5) – Cam Akers (RB, Florida state) or Joshua Kelley (RB, UCLA)
    #206 (JAX R6) – TE (Adam Trautman – Dayton or Dalton Keene – Virginia Tech or Charlie Taumoepeau – Portland State or Josiah Deguara – Cincinnati. Depends on who is available)
    #214 (R6) – nickel CB (AJ Terrell – Clemson, Harrison Hand – Temple, Javelin Guidry – Utah, John Reid – Penn State or Noah Igbinoghene – Auburn)

    Starters:
    DE: Clowney, Griffen, Green, Collier
    DT: Reed, Shelton, Ford, Collier, cheaper vet
    LB: Wagner, Simmons, Barton, BBK
    CB: Griffin, Flowers, Akeem King, rookie
    nCB: Amadi, King, rookie
    S: Diggs, McDougald, Blair, Simmons

    OT: Duane Brown, Fant/Ifedi, rookie, Jamarco Jones
    OG: Fluker, Jones, Haynes, Roos
    OC: Britt, Hunt
    WR: Lockett, Metcalf, rookie, Turner, Ursua
    RB: Carson, Penny, Homer, rookie
    QB: Wilson, cheap vet UFA or UDFA
    TE: Dissly, rookie, Hollister

    • cha says:

      Very interesting. Nice work!

      Don’t forget Olsen at TE.

      I wouldn’t tender Hollister, let him explore and bring him back maybe at half the price. But I would bring Moore back at WR.

      • drewdawg11 says:

        Re-sign:
        Clowney: 4 years 23m avg, 96m total, 60m GTD (16m/16m, 22m/20m, 26m/15m, 28m/9m)
        Jarran Reed: 1 years 10m, total GTD
        Jacob Hollister: original round tender 2m
        Fant or Ifedi: 3 years 12m, 36m total, 15m GTD (10/9m, 14/6m, 12/0m

        I would say not to most of these moves. No reason to pay Reed to be average, Hollister should be let go, and neither of those tackles needs to get rich on a Seattle contract. As for the picks, I don’t think that any of those tackles drop to 64, and Justin Jefferson will be long gone.

        • GoHawksDani says:

          Reed played half season, missed a ton of games early. Still a young player and at least an OK one, but his ceiling is high. We can’t roll with Poona Ford and basically no-one else. Getting a solid 5-6+ sack DT would cost much more. And we could use the interior pressure too. So a couple of vet DTs who can bring between 0-2 sacks a year is not ideal. With picking Simmons we wouldn’t really have the ammo for Calais Campbell trade, so I think Reed for a one year prove it deal is not a bad idea.
          He can set his 15+m market if he plays well, and if he doesn’t do too much the Hawks doesn’t have a multi-year deal with him.

          You might be right about Hollister, but I don’t wanna roll with Dissly (2 years injured), Olsen (older guy) and a late round rookie. Hollister is mediocre or maybe worse, but he’s young and probably better than Swoopes and other guys that are on the roster currently.

          As for the tackles…not a fan of Ifedi or Fant either. But if you pick Simmons in R1 and you only have options to pick RT at R2 I doubt you wanna make the rookie as the single point of failure. You need backup plans. Jamarco Jones might be an OK RT, but I’m not sure and he’s better suited as OG to me.
          Not the ideal situation, but you can’t get good tackles cheap and you won’t have money/picks to get a really good one. Fant/Ifedi are mediocre, OKish RTs, they cost less, but provide less.

          Yeah it’s a potential that all those tackles will be gone by #64. But there are a ton of solid WRs, ton of great OG, OC and OT in this draft. The best TEs, RBs, QBs, DEs, DTs, LBs will go early because the lack of talent. So I think there is potential that some of (or at least one of) these OTs will fall to #64. A bit slim, but maybe…

          J. Jefferson will likely won’t be there. Duvernay or Claypool will likely be gone too. But maybe one of these guys will also fall. DK was selected much later than most projected.

      • GoHawksDani says:

        Thanks cha!
        True, forgot the old guy 🙂
        Agreed on Hollister…we can probably find a guy with similar attributes as UDFA or street free agent, or bring back him for half. Agreed with Moore too…tried to fit him, but first I couldn’t but re-worked the moves a couple of times, so now he’d likely fit under the CAP. Solid backup with some skills and experience

  63. Georgia Hawk says:

    Hey Rob, it’s been more than 24 hours since you dropped a new article…everything OK brother?

    Seriously, great coverage this year. Loving the analysis and in depth looks!

  64. New Guy says:

    Rob,

    Stunningly intriguing work this season. Loads of fun.

  65. Mike says:

    Throwing out a name for a late round/UDFA linebacker the Hawks may want to consider..Chris Orr (Wisconsin)…11.5 sacks and 14 TFL’s in 2019 (from the middle linebacker position)..

    We’ll have to see how he tests at his pro day…probably won’t blow anybody away..just a good hard nosed productive football player that I think has the potential to have a decent NFL career..

  66. Kingdome1976 says:

    I thought we had over 60 mil in cap space. Why do we only have 44 mil now?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Because they signed Olsen. Because they haven’t cut anyone yet (including Ed Dickson) and because you always have to save some back for the draft and IR etc.