New podcast: Reacting to the Colts game

August 11th, 2018 | Written by Rob Staton

This week Kenny and I discuss the Colts game, overreactions on social media and we disagree on how likely Earl Thomas is to be an automatic starter if/when he ends his holdout. Check it out…

153 Responses to “New podcast: Reacting to the Colts game”

  1. Pickering says:

    I agree with you that when young players are assessed far too much emphasis tends to be given to finding problems with their play and too little to what they did well. The ‘if it bleeds it leads’ approach of tabloid journalism is used and amplified in online reporting and social media. Your example of T2’s error in his first preseason outing and how that uncritically snowballed a case in point.

    • Cameron says:

      I don’t disagree with your point, but to be fair, I do recall plenty about T2’s rookie preseason play, aside from “that” error, that really turned me off. In particular, he always seemed late to the play, and displayed no physicality, no instinct to deliver a hit at the catch to try and jar the ball loose.

      Of course, at the time, I came to the judgment that he was a player that relied on instincts and quick reaction, but that the NFL was going to be too fast for him early on until he adapted and the game slowed down for him. However, for those less familiar with his college game, I can see why they were inclined to see little potential in him based on what they had seen. I’m certainly glad to see him acclimating and settling in to his instinctual level of play.

  2. Frank says:

    I haven’t seen quite the negative takes on the rookie class, and we are all probably too ready to anoint the new look Seahawks as legit contender. I couldn’t be happier to have a return to the identity that I think brought the Seahawks to prominence, no I don’t think we have every hole covered, but we do have legit competition at every point except maybe back up QB and kicker. Pass rusher is always a need, but given how well Griffin did, gotta think they feel comfortable moving Mingo to more of a Leo role. I’d rather see them find a way to put K.J. Wagner and Griffin on the field at same time. I’m already more worried about getting K.J. back on the team that Earl. He just has the leadership quality, and the play to back it up. McGough has so many things to like about him, really hope he makes practice squad if not active rooster, to get that developed time in our system.
    As far as T2 getting burnt, one see Sherman vs Goodwin lol, and 2 a line backer was covering the Wr and blew his assignment badly, and T2 didn’t see it in time( in his first preseason game ever). If your gonna hate T2 for one bad play in glorified practice, I guess we can write off Sherman and target the hell outa him now:). Just one more tangent just for fun, I’d never want him on my team but there has been a lot written about Greg Hardy getting sober and being a changed man (exposure from mma). The Seahawks obviously won’t touch him because of Clark, but does a team get desperate for pass rush help this year and employ the Kracken again?

    • neil says:

      McGough will be a difficult situation for the Hawks. I think they will value Davis more given his experience. It was a silly interception but he did move the team well. The problem with McGough is, if he does well during pre season he will more than likely not clear waivers.

      • cha says:

        That would be a great problem to have!

      • Rob Staton says:

        I think he almost certainly will clear waivers. It’d be really something for a team to want to stash him on their roster. They’d be saying, ‘we believe this seventh round rookie from another team warrants redshirting’. It’s not often that happens. I think the Seahawks will be incredibly safe stashing him on the practise squad if they wanted to.

        • Redhawk87 says:

          Unlike a lot of other positions, a team really only has room for their primary QB and one replacement, who they know can play in their system. It is a HUGE risk to bet on a waived rookie player, not good enough in a system they were familiar with, who literally needs to be able to run your entire offense, to come in and be anything close to satisfactory should your primary QB be injured in the first few games.

  3. C-Dog says:

    Thank you, thank you, a million times thank you, Rob.

    Thank you for calling out the social media driven super fans who jump on these rookies. I swear, it gets to the point where I don’t even want to look at what some of these folks write. It’s like smelling that old milk container in the back of the fridge.

    Example; I thought Penny had a promising outing and was shocked to read one prominent super fan’s take, and it almost made me noxious.

    The thing I’ve grown to take away from these social media fan types is that there is a legit Lord of the Flies mentality the generates out of it, they start ripping on a player, and then all the lies come out and start buzzing around it. I suspect it largely comes out of it because some of these types can not resist revving up passionate levels of support for players they favor, and in doing that, they equally choose to rev up the dismissiveness of other players that they think aren’t as good, or deemed as essential. Player A is made out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and Player B is made out to be practically a waste of a roster spot.

    Last year you would have thought from some of these folks that cutting Kasen Williams what equivalent to cutting the second coming of Jerry Rice. Well, how well did Williams do in Cleveland last year, the worst team in the league that was also winless? He did zilch, nada, goose egg, not a thing. Gee, maybe the Seahawks knew what they were doing after all.

    I love that these folks take the time to build there sites, I appreciate them taking the time out of what are likely very busy schedules to write their insights, I truly appreciate your site, and thoughtful insights and observations, but I swear to God sometimes I think Twitter is the creation of Satan, and it is absolutely a horrendous platform to get one thoughts out. The absolute worst.

    As for the ones that offer expanded writings, I just wish that they would pump the breaks on the impulse to bash. I know it is hard to do. You feel like the team should have taken a pass rusher before running back, and it’s hard to shake. I get it, but let’s not convince ourselves, for a minute, that we know more about football than Pete Carroll and John Schneider. We don’t. Period.

    I think that is why I choose to come here, and try to be an active part of what you have going on. You don’t pretend to know more than the powers that be. You give your takes, but you give benefits of the doubt. Not too hot, not too cold. Just right. Civil, and reasonable. Thank you for that, and thanks for being more than willing to address this issue.

    Go Hawks.

  4. All I see is 12s says:

    Rob, thank you so much for the podcast that you and Kenny do. You guys do such a great job. I always look forward to it!
    Speaking of podcasts, I’ve been listening to some of the national ones lately and, it is very clear the disrespect shown to Seattle by most national pundits. I can’t think of a single other team that gets this kind of treatment. Aaron Rodgers has consistently had a shoddy defense and a poor run game but no one ever says GB will go 4 and 12. Newton has had poor talent around him and they are always considered contenders AND that defense is always considered tough simply because they have Luke k. The Hawks have Bobby Wagner and you would think the sky is falling because they moved on from old, injured, and/or disruptive players. Even when New Orleans was lacking talent they were always considered a contender simply because they had Drew Brees. The list could easily go on.
    Russell Wilson is and always has been the catalyst of this team. He is what put them over the top and was the difference. The 2011 team had 1000 yard punishing rusher with Lynch, and a defense that was really coming into its own. They were 7-9. The 2012 draft class was great, but it was the addition of the dynamic Wilson that really made the difference. It is disappointing that the national media has so little respect for him. Sure, they may call him a great player but they certainly don’t think that his great play will translate into wins.
    Last seasonThe Seahawks failed to produce a run game. It made our offense one dimensional and solely reliant on Wilson. And it burnt our defense out. The same has happened to Aaron Rodgers in the past as well and nobody seems to count the Packers out when this happens.
    It is going to be comical, this season when the Seahawks begin having success, and I believe they will, and all these national commentators will be praising Russell Wilson and the wonderful job of the coaches blah blah blah when everyone knows that if you have an elite quarterback which Wilson is, then you have a significant better chance of winning.
    OK, got that off my chest. Happy Saturday everyone

    • Volume12 says:

      I’ve seen quite a few sites and fans think this team will have a top 5 pick.

    • Pedestrian says:

      That’s always been the case. National media pays little mind to the PNW and think it’s just lower Alaska or some dumb bulls**t like that. I just take the same advice these players do who receive all this criticism, ignore them because they don’t matter and don’t know what they’re talking about with clear bias. End of the day, results are left on the field.

      I have a feeling that playoffs in 2019, media will be talking about Seahawks dominance again

  5. FresnoHawk says:

    Watching other teams FS I can totally see the difference between normal FS and Earl Thomas. I saw Tedric stopping a RB like ET does which most FS do not, so that’s refreshing. Penny is a Curtis Martin clone I think the reason nobody has picked up on it is that only 15% of adults use social media and the younger fans don’t know who Curtis Martin is. The 3rd preseason game is where the starters play hard. Furthermore there are several really good teams this year so it’s easy to dismiss the Hawks but like every year injuries determine who makes the SuperBowl.

  6. Volume12 says:

    What was Hawks Twitter crying about now? They playing ‘whataboutism?’ Should’ve taken the guy they banged the drum for?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Yes today the discussion seems to be about all the players they should’ve taken instead of Penny.

      I hate twitter.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        Penny is the real deal runs like Curtis Martin

      • Volume12 says:

        Who did they think would’ve been the better selection? I’m gonna try and stay away from that corner of Twitter this year.

        It’s turned into ‘I’m right your wrong,’ ‘whataboutism,’ and ‘Stay woke.’

        I just open a blank window and read tweets. There’s no way I was about to jump back into the void. It used to be a fun platform.

        • Rob Staton says:

          The topic today focused on DJ Moore. He had a nice play for the Panthers. So everyone wants him now.

          The thing is, I like Moore. Really liked him. Tough, gritty, athletic, playmaker. But if the Seahawks had taken a receiver in R1 the same people probably would’ve complained they continue to ignore the run. Or they’d say Seattle preaches wanting to run the ball and keeps spending high picks on flashy targets.

          If your absolute focus in an off-season is to repair a shattered run game, a pick to try and aid that situation cannot be flawed IMO. Doesn’t mean everyone has to agree with the Penny pick. Far from it. But you can’t criticise making a firm decision on what you need to improve, setting out a vision and then executing. They had absolute clarity on what they needed to do with this draft. Help the running game, add a pass rusher. Done and done. It’s a shame they didn’t have another high pick to look at some of the other really intriguing names in that 20-40 range. C’est la vie. If the run is fixed this year it’s mission accomplished on what is likely a two-year refresh.

          • Volume12 says:

            Yeah I liked Moore a lot myself, but not convinced he’d be better than a combined low cost potential high reward in Brandon Marshall, a healthy always open Lockett, and a renewed run game. For me picking that late in round 1 has always been equivalent to a 2nd rounder anyways. There’s hardly if ever more than 18-20 legit 1st rounders.

            Penny will be fine. He’s gonna be a guy that will make more plays going east-west as opposed to North-south like Carson. I don’t see the issue in having a 1-2 (thunder & lightning) punch at RB. Seems like that’s what 95% of the league is doing unless you have a Fournette or Gurley type.

            They absolutely would’ve said that or it woulda been ‘great pick Seattle. You added a receiver when you can’t even give RW time to look off his 1st read?’

            Basically, agreed and agreed with your post.

            • FresnoHawk says:

              I think the Hawks want a play maker in round 1 that will start year 1 and is durable. There were lots of great RB’s in the 2018 draft but practically all of them had durability issues and blocking issues. Hawk typically draft seniors, Penny is durable, and Hawks believe he can block. Hawks also typically draft to the strength of the draft this draft WR was weak

          • john_s says:

            I love DJ Moore however in order to take DJ Moore you would have had to stay at their original pick instead of trading down and acquiring a 3 and 6.

            I guess the question should be asked what would you rather have:

            DJ Moore

            or

            Rashaad Penny
            Rasheem Green
            Jacob Martin

            Where Seattle is at in roster construction the latter is my preferred even though I think DJ Moore will be a great player

      • Shadow says:

        I honestly think some people would rather be proven right about a player they didn’t want than have that player turn out to be good for the team.

      • Rowdy says:

        I stay away from most public outlets on opinions, this is the only site I read comments for knowledge. I seen you getting blasted on fieldgulls in the comments today by people just trying to say you’re wrong for no reason. That’s most of what comments are today. No real insight just people twisting others opinions to make them look wrong for no reason.

    • sdcoug says:

      Considering Penny really didn’t get many creases, I was actually pretty encouraged. I think the six yd run down to the 5 yd line is all you need to look at. Most RBs are dead in the water at the l.o.s. on that play. Without any deceleration, the slightest shimmy (almost a glide) and he rounds the corner and makes 5 yards out of nothing.

      I’m not surprised to hear there are people freaking out, but dang, give the kid a chance to actually do something. I think he and Carson can be a legit 1-2 punch.

      • Volume12 says:

        Those same people were ready to write off Alex Collins. And then what happened?

      • Coleslaw says:

        I noticed the Colts D really keyed in on Penny, first snap was a perfect example. They sold out on him getting the ball and bam, 2 yard loss.

        Felt like Seattle was trying to see if Penny and Carson could run it when the Colts knew they were running.

  7. CharlietheUnicorn says:

    My biggest take-a-way from the first preseason game….

    What the hell is this… a fully formed pocket for RW to work from…. and very few free runners at the QB. TBH, the whole OL looked like it was performing decently. A few whiffs and the like, but that is expected in preseason. Battle going down with an injury was concerning, but at least Seattle didn’t any major injuries like the Colts suffered.

    Bonus Take A Way from (preseason) game #1

    Tre Flowers is legit at CB.

    • Bigten says:

      Speaking of battles injury, what was it diagnosed as? Also what about Jamarco Jones injury?

      • Rob Staton says:

        Jones was high ankle sprain, Battle a minor knee issue.

      • Shadow says:

        Knee sprain for Battle, ankle sprain for Jones. Carroll said Battle’s sprain didn’t look to be very serious but Jones has a “legit” injury (high ankle sprain would be my guess) so he’ll probably be out a while. No real timetable for either one but Battle will likely be back first.

  8. Bigten says:

    Similar to the sentiment that we should allslow our roll in our evaluation of rookies such as Penney (tho I though he showed very well Thursday) and Vets like ifedi, we should slow our evaluation of McGough. As negative as Pete was in his comment about him, I think the hawks might like his athletic ability opposed to Davis. Buttttttt I also think we could be watching and waiting to find out who gets cut from other teams. There are some interesting situations around the league at back up QB, and teams such as the Steelers, packers, bills, raiders and giants are going to have to make some interesting choices come 53 man roster time.

    • Volume12 says:

      They absolutely need to sort out the backup QB issue once and for all. I mean I get it. The ship goes down if Russ does so it doesn’t make sense to pump stock into a futile attempt, but having a T-Jack like guy back there would be nice.

      IDK if they’ll go after a vet or not, but the Colts Phillip Walker looks like a guy that might be a nice fit. He impressed me.

      • john_s says:

        I would love for Seattle to acquire Teddy Bridgewater.

        With McCown and Darnold the Jets have their 1-2 QB.

    • Rob Staton says:

      At the end of the day, McGough is a seventh round rookie QB. And to me he’s playing like a seventh round rookie QB. That’s not being overly negative to say that — it’s just reality. He couldn’t move the ball and it was hard to judge other players on the offense when he was on the field.

      More importantly though it comes down to this — they aren’t going to put themselves in a position where they’re a play away from McGough being on the field as the starting QB. They just aren’t. I think the best case for him is they like him enough to stash on the PS.

  9. Robert says:

    So glad to have you back full time on the podcast, Rob – it’s a pleasure to listen to your commentary. I just wanted to add something about the over-analysis topic.
    On Thursday’s pre-game radio show, Paul Moyer shared something one of the rookie DBs (I think it was Flowers) told him: the coaches encouraged him to take his chances, to go for it in practice and in these preseason games. Moyer said he wished he had been coached that way – in his day, it was always about “knowing your limits”. Encouraging players to take chances in practice/preseason helps them learn what their limits are for when the games count.

  10. Coleslaw says:

    Rasheem Green should make an impact this year even without a variety of counters. People say he needs to add weight but right now hes a bigger, quicker Michael Bennett physically. He can probably still win somewhat consistently with speed on the inside, less often than Bennett for sure but still enough to play him there on passing downs. Rushing downs hes a slower DE. He could add weight for that role and it wouldn’t hurt at DT either but he should be ok.

    I think the most important thing for Green is technique, for sure. Hes special physically, he’ll be able to stand his own, and when he gets the technique down he can be a special player (better than Bennett?) I guess long story short I think his floor is higher than most and i love his ceiling.

  11. Old but Slow says:

    Anyone have a feel for how the team will manage before cutdown day. Will we see a roster churn, with cuts and signings, or just go with who we have?

  12. Rowdy says:

    I really liked what I saw from mcgough in the game, I agree he goes to P.S. but he showed real Poise in the pocket and found the holes his line gave him effortlessly. Would like to see him test down field more but looked accurate and got the ball out quick.

    • Old but Slow says:

      McGough faced some pretty strong pass rush, as the back end of our offensive line did not seem able to keep out the Colt’s backups. That was worrying, as we might consider our backup linemen, but I am not savvy enough to target individuals. Hopefully this will wring out with the wash.

      • Rowdy says:

        Absolutely true about the oline but that’s what impressed me about him. He never seemed rattled by the pressure and step up or ran to the outside without panicking and still looking for the open man. Most rookies don’t look that poised especially 7th Rounders.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think he needs time, which isn’t a surprise. He’s a seventh round rookie QB. But he’s destined for the PS at best right now. Which is fine.

  13. FresnoHawk says:

    Quinton Jefferson can play. Rookie year they had him follow Bennett around learning DE, last year he seemed very confident before he got hurt playing DT. I do recall Schneider saying they liked that he’s a family man. I’m speculating that he wouldn’t do something that would jeopardize his ability to provide for his family, I figure in his words last year “it’s time to dominate” I can take him at his word.

    • C-Dog says:

      I thought QJeff had a terrific game.

    • Volume12 says:

      He had a good game for sure. MLB Austin Calitro showed well too I thought. Reminds me of a young Wilhoite. Even looks similar.

      And Shaquem Griffin is gonna be one of those guys at the LB position who will be probably be unsung but is all over the field and stuffs the stat sheet tackle wise. He had a pretty quite 8 tackles. Other than the fact he’s inspirational and energetic I’m not sure if Shaquem will have any one outstanding strength or thing he does well, but he’s got the look and feel of a guy who won’t have a weakness. Very KJ esque.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        We want speed at the Will LB typically is the most athletic LB, KJ is not the typical profile but he’s an outstanding tackler. Griffith is a natural pass rusher but too small for DE, he needs to learn how to become an excellent tackler. His weapons so far is speed and his deformed hand which he uses as a “poker” to pop out the ball. If Griffith becomes a proficient tackler his “poker” should wreck havoc on the league. If he misses tackles were gonna see a lot of TD’s against us.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I still think his biggest challenges are to do a better job in zone and not being a liability in the run game.

          He can blitz, spy, run and hit. He’ll always make plays. It’s the basic fundamentals of playing LB he has to master and it will take time. Currently he’s the type of player who will make a nice play or two every week but possibly be a liability in many other plays where you really need to study the tape to notice the issue. So his role is likely limited initially but I’m sure they’ll give him time and an opportunity.

    • Aaron says:

      Q Jeff plays well in the preseason but when he faces starting o liners in the regular season he’s average at best. He’s on the roster bubble imo. He was cut last year for a week or two and was on the Rams when we played them in LA.

  14. McZ says:

    Nice, tough podcast, as always.

    Tend to add to one thing. You mentioned McGough more or less being no competition to Davis. Apart from him being a 7th round pick playing his first pro snaps, half of them sitting on his arse and as such it may be a little to early to judge… so is Josh Johnson, and so is Austin Davis himself, if he plays like that.

    I have a weird idea, in full wild prediction mode… as soon as he got waived, the Hawks will pick up RGIII.

    Btw, how do you guys see the WR competition? I think, Darboh has a long, tough road to take on David Moore. With Baldwin, Lockett and presumably Brown and Moore set, and Darboh not capable to contend in the slot receiver role, I don’t think he will make the roster this year.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Sure, but McGough is a seventh round rookie right now and the other two aren’t. My comments on McGough aren’t a review of his career more a review of where he is today.

      I think as things stand the WR competition seems rather straight forward. Baldwin, Lockett, Marshall, Brown, Moore with the possibility for one more.

      • Coleslaw says:

        +1 and I’ll add that the 1 more should be Marcus Johnson over Darboh due to him being a legit special teamer. He also fills a deep threat role that’s somewhat lacking in that group. I tend to think we keep 6 for Schotty.

        • FresnoHawk says:

          Marcus needs to demonstrate everything but running, route running, and catching. Can he be a team player, can he block, will he do his job when not the primary target. It’s looking good for him

        • Logan Lynch says:

          Can’t say I disagree here. And honestly, I don’t think SEA will have any trouble getting Darboh on the practice squad. He hasn’t shown enough for another team to poach him to the active roster and I can’t see him leaving for another practice squad somewhere else.

  15. H says:

    I really hadn’t considered the possibility that Earl would not be put straight back into the team when he comes back.
    But having heard your arguments, I think I agree. Why should he? He’s not been here competing, T2 has, and kicking butt doing it.
    Kinda makes me sad. Feeling like Im never going to see Earl start for the seahawks again, I had figured we would get at least the 1st half of this season.

    • Rob Staton says:

      If Tedric plays well he has to keep the job.

      • smitty1547 says:

        I agree if he’s playing well he should keep his job, however it never plays out like that. The hold out gets rushed back in and more often than not before he’s ready and he gets hurt.

        Also agree nobody picks up McGough, but he sticks on practice squad and gets coached up.

        Thought all are rookies looked good, to include Penny.

        Loved the play calling for a Vanilla preseason look, it still looked better than Beavell

  16. Largent80 says:

    Earl needs to do something he never has and that is ride the pine. It’s time for these guys to get that as much as they value themselves over the team in a team sport that it isn’t going to be tolerated.

    Plus it gives the guys that will be replacing him going forward valuable experience and evaluation.

  17. STTBM says:

    On the WR’s making the roster, I agree with Rob. Right now, Darboh is a cut, and Johnson makes it if they keep 6. Moore has a spot–for the moment.

    On the backup qb situation: it’s a disaster. Davis is just not worth keeping, and McGough isn’t ready for anything other than the PS. That’s not a knock on McGoughs future, but is is on Davis.

    Seattle has wasted much of Training camp finding out Davis isn’t a good option. They got burned pinching pennies and being gunshy of Keep. Hindsight is 20/20, but in retrospect, Seattle should have brought in Kaep or RG3.

    I sincerely hope we have one of those guys or Bridgewater as a backup come game 1. Though I have to say I think highly of Bridgewater and want him to land a starting gig somewhere.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I disagree here. They’ve just spent a year with Austin Davis as the backup. He actively won the job a year ago from Boykin. Plus Schotty worked with him in St. Louis. So I don’t see this as the team wasting a camp to find out he isn’t good enough. They know full well what he is. The fact they re-signed him to me says they are reasonably comfortable with him. And the fact he’s worked with the offensive coordinator before was probably a bonus, at least initially.

      Davis had one bad decision/throw in the Colts game and one really good downfield throw/drive. It’s a c’est la vie moment for me. I suspect, however, they were alarmed at how the offense completely shut down in the second half when the rookie QB took over. And that’s no slight on McGough. He just isn’t ready. But IMO they wasted a half of offensive evaluation last Thursday. We didn’t learn anything about anyone really other than perhaps the O-line. The Josh Johnson workout might be a case of bringing in someone who can compete with Davis and allow the offense to function in future weeks to properly evaluate the WR’s, RB’s and TE’s.

      I’m also not concerned at all about the fact they didn’t add RGIII who has looked finished for some time or Kaepernick. They’ve met with him at least twice, once while he’s suing the league. So they’ve been prepared to go down that road. And when they met with him last time, seemingly minutes after the meeting it was leaked what they talked about. Now if you’re any team right now thinking of signing Kaepernick — you’re wary of distractions. You just are, that’s a fact. So you ask questions to make sure there won’t be any. For Kaepernick to immediately reveal the discussions during the meeting confirmed this was never going to be possible. And if he was serious about getting back into the league he wouldn’t have leaked that info.

    • Kenny Sloth says:

      I’m not sure Bridgewater would be an improvement on Davis.

      Kaepernick would be if you can count on him 100% imo

      I’m wondering what you saw from Davis that led you to that conclusion. He looked pretty good on thurs. Much better than McGough

      • STTBM says:

        I respect your opinion, Rob. Well said. I think Griffin has been humbled, and could be an upgrade to Davis. Carrol has the right to be leery of distractions, and there’s no doubt Kaep is likely to be one. I get it. And while that was only one throw from Davis, it was so strikingly terrible that to me at least, his overall effectiveness has to be in question. Others may disagree, that’s simply my opinion.

        Kenny, while you may not be convinced, I have no doubt Bridgewater is a better option, even if his knee isn’t right. I have zero faith in Davis. IMO he beat out Boykin almost by default; Boykin just wasn’t trustworthy–on or off-field. Davis looked fine, then pissed it all away with a play even McGough would have been embarrassed to have “made”.

        Perhaps I am being too harsh. But I just don’t see Davis as a capable backup.

        • Kenny Sloth says:

          I don’t know what one single play you’re talking about.

          The pick in the last preseason game?

          If that’s what youre basing your entire evaluation of this guy on, I would urge you to rethink your process

          Getting into that specific play. Even ignoring that he got them into that position, confidently driving down the field that McGough clearly didnt demonstrate the capacity for.

          That play was designed to isolate a former QB that was literally just added to the roster who then stemmed his route looking for a backshoulder.

          It was simply one tiny second of miscommunication.

          You’d be silly to judge a guy based on such a sliver of information.

          I hate to question your ability to break down football ideas, but Austin Davis has been a starter in this league. Not sure why you think he cant be a backup.

          Do you just know so much better than the GMs that have brought him in?

          • STYBM says:

            Kenny, you misunderstand; I don’t think McGough is even close to ready to beat out Davis. But Davis has shown he can’t be counted on. That Red Zone pick is not the only reason I don’t see him as good enough to be Wilson’s backup, just the latest example and a rather egregious one. To go downfield and then perform as he did in such an important spot is telling. I’ve seen it with countless qb’s over the last 35 plus years I’ve been watching football; some guys just don’t have the knack, the special something, to be a decent starter or backup. I think Davis is one of those, but I hope he proves me wrong.

            And of course I don’t think I evaluate players as well as a GM. Doesn’t mean our Coaches and Front Office are always right, either.

            Many times I’ve seen teams bring in a player who played for a new coordinator previously, and keep them even thorough bad play–especially at qb. Davis was here before Schotty, but I think Seattle may have overvalued his previous experience under Schotty.

            At this point, it’s likely to late to find and train a quality backup; were likely stuck with Davis, for better or worse. And he’s had his moments–perhaps he will improve, and prove me wrong. I surely won’t mind!

  18. DC says:

    Derrius Guice has a torn ACL. Hope Penny’s healthy ways continue.

    • Sean-O says:

      Guice’s injury is an example why I don’t understand why lots of the twitterverse is/was bent out of shape regarding the Penny selection.

      I’d love to see Carson have a monster season but his injury history alone along with the position in general is why it’s necessary to have quality backups at key positions. I think PC/JS had seen enough of the CMike, Bryce Brown, DuJuan Harris types having to be the primary RB at times the last few years.

      • jdk says:

        I hope Penny is awesome. I like winning more than I like being right.

        However, to say you don’t understand the backlash ignores that unless Penny is a truly special back, comparable RB depth is usually available in later rounds. The argument isn’t and never has been against Penny or against fixing the running game. It is that the opportunity cost of Penny was too high unless becomes an elite back. Even he does, I would say good result but poor process.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I’ve never quite understood why a running back has to be ‘elite’ to justify the pick but nobody would make that case for a linebacker or guard.

          Because you can find linebackers or guards later on who are also really good.

          In fact teams have shown you can find pretty much any position later on. The following were named 1st team All-pro’s last season:

          Tom Brady (R6)
          TE Travis Kelce (R3)
          TE Rob Gronkowski (R2)
          WR Antonio Brown (R6)
          T Andrew Whitworth (R2)
          G Andrew Norwell (UDFA)
          C Jason Kelce (R6)
          DE Everson Griffen (R4)
          S Kevin Byard (R3)
          DB Darius Slay (R2)

          Furthermore, the top runners in the game clearly include Zeke Elliott (top-5), Todd Gurley (top-10), Le’Veon Bell (R2) and Leonard Fournette (top-5). Saquon Barkley will likely add to the list. There are also some good RB’s drafted later. But it’s the case for every other position in the league too. Some elite players drafted early, some elite players drafted later.

          So IMO Penny doesn’t ‘need’ to be elite to justify the pick any more so than a guard, receiver or linebacker would need to be.

          • jdk says:

            I understand what you are saying, but I disagree. Seattle vowed to fix the running game and swinging for the fences with Penny was a huge part of that.

            But scheme was far more responsible for the running woes than the RBs last year, in my opinion. If Penny isn’t special but the running game is good to average, regardless of who is running the ball, then this lends credence to the idea that what was needed was a little more creativity and perhaps a better O-Line coach.

            The running game didn’t need Penny, unless he is off the charts. It needed a little more depth, some dependability, and a lot more imagination. You don’t need to spend first round draft capital for that.

            • Rob Staton says:

              I think they did need more talent. Case in point — Carson had success in his four games. The running game only came to a crushing halt when they had to rely on Rawls and Lacy. Yes a scheme tweak was necessary but the Seahawks owned a bunch of injury prone or bad RB’s. And they couldn’t go into this year with the same injury prone backs complimented by another average (or worse) free agent or a late round pick. They needed an infusion of talent. And with one pick in the first three rounds and options limited because the draft was extremely top heavy at RB, they made a strong commitment to the run.

          • McZ says:

            Every pick has to be justified, and every pick has to deliver to its price.

            There is a lot of draft capital sunk in Penny. His perceived value is basically equivalent to Kerryon Johnson plus another 3rd or 4th round pick.

            3rd round could be Joe Noteboom, Alex Cappa or Sam Hubbard, 4th round Kentavious Street or Josh Sweat. Having another DE or OT could make a real difference this season.

            • Rob Staton says:

              This is not accurate. The Seahawks had one pick in the first three rounds. They wait for Kerryon they miss out.

              None of the names you listed are even that enticing. One of them is out for months with a serious injury.

              We should stop trying so hard to over analyse the RB position and its draft value.

              • McZ says:

                It has nothing to do with him being RB. It has everything to do with his fellow first round colleagues you mentioned, who set expectations performance wise. This expectation is measurable in yd and TD.

                Enticing or not (their rating was just a little bit below Penny), in a situation, where pass rush and run blocking remain exposed to no sufficient depth, another “name” could help.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  McZ, it feels like you either weren’t present for everything we discussed during draft season or have forgotten it. The Seahawks BADLY needed to fix the run as a priority. They were able to turn #18 into Penny and Green. That addressed the need at RB and the DL. I’m not sure what the issue is at all. There was no viable alternative that had them going DL first because the good running backs were all off the board so quickly.

                  • McZ says:

                    I’ve never said, they should draft DL first.

                    I wrote, he wears a price tag, which could have brought another talent plus maybe an even higher rated back to Seattle.

                    And that he needs to play to this his price tag. There is nothing complex to understand. Take Fournettes numbers, adjust them a bit, bingo.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Any player drafted at 27 has to play to his price tag. At any position.

                    Penny is no different than anyone else.

            • FresnoHawk says:

              Seahawks traded the #18 pick 1st round for RB Penny & DE Green!

              • McZ says:

                According to various sources, they had offers for Penny once drafted. In the Pats case – depending how dearly they wanted him – , it would have given #31 plus #43 or #143. Or, if the Browns theory is right, #33 plus #67 or #105.

                Even if they had the worst outcome, it would have allowed them to pick up Daniel Carlson (which the Vikes identified as a possible Seahwks target), Tyrell Crosby, Dane Cruikshank, Braxton Berrios or Scott Quessenberry. Maybe they could have traded further back into the 40-50 sweetspot, and take another late rounder.

                I’m not saying, we should have done such a trade. I’m saying, that Penny needs to play to his price tag.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  None of these options are appealing.

                  I don’t understand you’re takes on this.

                  • McZ says:

                    If we can agree on nfl.com ratings, trading further down and taking say Ronald Jones plus any name I mentioned would have added a rating of nearly 12 to the team, with associated risk halfed. Penny adds 5.85.

                    But this is if and when… Penny IS a first round RB, drafted long before some other guys you rated as solid first rounders. We can expect him to become instant starter with a 1,000yd+ season.

                    This is playing to his price tag. Which is equiv to “fixing the run game”.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    It’s all rubbish McZ.

                    Sorry to be that blunt, but it really is.

    • Volume12 says:

      Yup.

      RoJo is reportedly really struggling with TB so far. Only so much a 205 lb back is gonna give ya anyways. Sony Michel is a committee back with his medicals, Chubb is reportedly struggling, not to mention, if anyone knows those 2 it’d be Schotty. It’s still so early but the only rookie backs that I’ve heard good things on that were taken after Penny are Royce Freeman, Kallen Ballage, & Kerryon Johnson.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        Stats in preseason arn’t a reliable gauge. Bo Scarbrough, Chase Edmonds, and Roc Thomas also looked real good. The 2018 draft had a ton of great non RB’s available in the 2nd round Our DE Green is a perfect example. The 2018 RB class is a good one but teams need to get 1st year production out of 2nd round picks, most of those 2nd RB’s didn’t look like they could do that over a 16 game season, they need a year to get their bodies & minds right. But that doesn’t mean that they won’t eventually be 1st string work horses.

        • Volume12 says:

          I agree, but I wasn’t necessarily talking stats. More so what these guys are struggling with camp and skill wise. And yeah it’s gonna take rookies time, but the RB position is one that traditionally doesn’t. Especially for teams like Detroit that took these guys to get immediate production outta said run game.

          My point is, from everything that’s being reported as of now, Penny seems like he was the right back for Seattle.

      • McZ says:

        Anybody would be struggling in this broken TB team this season, plus having lots of competition in the monster NFC South.

        I think, Royce Freeman has the most perfect situation in Denver. He will run a heck of a lot. I think, his concerns were mid term durability, but then, how many RB survive the first five years of NFL?

  19. MikeLynn says:

    A question that was asked of me of a coworker on ET3. He wanted to know if I thought the Seahawks would pull the trigger on a trade with the Raiders for Khalil Mack. I have to admit that it was an intriguing scenario for me but, the only way I see that swap happening is if another player (most likely Tyler Lockett) were to be included. Not worried about contract extensions for either team since both are flush with cap room following this year, the Raiders especially so. Just wanted to know what your take on that trade would be Rob.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think to get Mack it would take multiple picks (at least one first rounder) plus Earl Thomas.

      • MikeLynn says:

        That’s what I was kinda figuring. A first is too much to give up with so much talent along the defensive line hitting the draft next year. I was wishfully hoping a more subtle swap would occur with Mackenzie’s and Schneider’s precious working relationship with the Pack.

      • CharlietheUnicorn says:

        I think if you can pull off a trades ET + 1st round for Mack, you do the deal.
        I, of course, would only do a deal if you think you can reasonably sign Mack to a 15-18M / year type of deal. I’m pretty confident he will be looking for 20-22M / year…..

        Mack is really really really good. Probably top 5 defensive player right now. Fast, disruptive…. and if anyone would know him…. it would be the current Seahawks DC.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I would seriously consider it too. I suspect it would take a R1, Earl and probably something else. Aaron Donald is the most dominant defensive player in the league. Khalil Mack is one of the group in the next tier of excellence.

        • AlaskaHawk says:

          Can we please drop the thought of trading away a first or second round draft pick? It has hurt the team over and over with this trading policy. The only trade that has worked out has been Brown. Just resist the urge. The Seahawks need their top draft picks – even if they just trade down with them.

    • FresnoHawk says:

      Raiders don’t have the cap space even if they trade Penn. With the new kick off rules teams that have 3 kick returners that can block have an advantage. Teams that do not have 3 kick returners should be at a disadvantage.

    • Aaron says:

      Mack is an attractive name and player, but he’s going to eat up too much cap space. We still need to extend Clark, Lockett, and possibly KJ. Plus Russ is going to command 35+ million a year in his next deal. Develop in the draft, supplement through FA.

      • All I see is 12s says:

        Hate to say it but if Griffen can flash as a legit lb, then KJ may be on his way out…which would be sad.

      • mishima says:

        Not sure I would extend any of those players, maybe Clark, but I expect him to test free agency and price himself out of Seattle.

        The Seahawks will load up on DE/Edge, next draft.

        • FresnoHawk says:

          Right now KJ is the Hammer and Griffith will be the guy chasing speed backs & quick receivers when KJ gets gassed. Remember the play off game we lost to Atlanta our guys were gassed, now we can rotate Griffith in. Next years draft could be the end of KJ or maybe it won’t.

      • lil'stink says:

        I like Clark, but I’d much rather have Mack at $20-22 million APY than Clark at $15 million APY. And I think KJ could come on the cheaper side.

  20. DC says:

    Kinda cool side story, I randomly met Mike Wahle’s parents yesterday (The one time pro bowl OG for the Packers who retired a Seahawk). They were fun & we were joking around about their son throwing them some ‘cheddar’. What struck me though is when they said that they were just thankful that Mike can still walk after his NFL days. Pretty heavy. These guys really take a beating in this game.

  21. CharlietheUnicorn says:

    Steelers fan sneaks out onto practice field, has a talk with Antonio Brown, promptly asked to leave.
    LMFAO, you can’t make this stuff up. Guy was in full uniform, pads and all. 🙂

  22. Old but Slow says:

    Are any of the young players showing up to make a splash or to make the final roster?

    Maybe Poona Ford, and maybe guys like Akeem King. Austin Calitro made an impression against the Colts.

    The drafted players, so far, have been exciting, and I am optimistic about them, but I like to look for the unheralded kid who will not be denied. Michael Bennett was the model.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      I think David Moore has to be at the top of the list. Practice reports always seem to highlight at least one big catch from him and I thought he played really well the other night (except when McGough tried to get him killed on the overthrow). He’s already cleared concussion protocol, so that’s good.

      Quinton Jefferson and Poona Ford are two other names that we’ve discussed around here too. Pete has been bringing Poona up without prompting recently as a player who is doing well, which is a good sign. He showed good anchor the other night too. Pete also said Q-Jeff would be a part of the DL rotation if the season started today. Whether that’s coach speak or not remains to be seen. I left off the drafted rookies because they’ve been discussed pretty heavily already. In fact, all three of these guys have been brought up pretty extensively, so I’m not exactly going out on a limb here.

      With the Jamarco Jones injury, you have to think that makes it easier for Isaiah Battle as long as his injury isn’t too serious.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        If Poona & Jefferson make the team and last 16 games that would have a huge impact on next years draft.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think whatever happens, we can already clearly see the likely DL focus in next years draft for Seattle and many others.

          • Logan Lynch says:

            Rob,

            I agree that SEA will focus on DL next year. Obviously, we can’t know how the draft will fall, but do you think SEA would prioritize drafting a pass rushing DT over a DE? I just think Pete has this fascination with finding a game wrecking DT and he hasn’t been able to so far. Would they throw another early pick that way or get a good DE instead?

            • Rob Staton says:

              I think they’d happily take either. It’s harder to find great interior rushers. I do think the 2019 draft will be more of a DE draft than a DT draft though, so might be hard to find that guy early.

  23. Ashish says:

    @Rob Thanks for the podcasts. Agree with you on people getting pissed with 1 preseason game where players get 2-3 series to play.

    If Thomas hold out continue, he will take a roster spot too which is so important. Sad we are still talking about this, I hope Hawks make sure all fine so far are recovered and make this an example for future players.

    Hawks will do good than so called pundits predict so let’s enjoy .. GO HAWKS!!

  24. CestrianHawk says:

    Raiders game has been moved to Wembley. Now hopefully I might get a ticket, as there should be about 20k more available.

  25. Largent80 says:

    I find it hard to understand how DL will be a priority for next year after one pre-season game. Jeezus, they actually got great pressure from 2 rookies in their first game.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Let’s be right here — even if Jacob Martin and Rasheem Green have excellent seasons, they’re going to need more on the D-line. There’s little depth and a number of players (including their best pass rusher) are free agents in 2019.

    • FresnoHawk says:

      Pete’s comment on DT Johnson basically said he’s been looking for him for 6 years problem Johnson is old! That’s a huge clue for next years draft but remember the 2nd round DT might be a better fit than the 1st round DT’s for the Hawks.

    • DC says:

      Clemons, Bennett, Avril, Irvin & McDonald represented our top pass rushers during the title run with Mebane, Bryant, McDaniel & Schofield rounding out the line.

      We got room yet to add some talent on the DL if we’re looking for the top prize.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        DC that was DE Clemons, Bennett,Avril,Irvin,Bryant, and Schofield = 6 DT McDonald, Mebane, and McDaniel = 3 DT = 9 DL Did Irvin play SAM that year? Did Bryant play DT much? I can’t remember?

        • DC says:

          Positional definitions are optional with Pete but the way they operated that year it seemed like the following;
          Clemons & Avril LEO/DE, Bryant DE, Bennett DE/DT, McDonald, Mebane, McDaniel DT, Irvin LB/LEO Schofied LB/?.
          Bryant was the base down 5 tech DE. Irvin was base down SAM iirc.

  26. Coleslaw says:

    If you can trade Earl and a future 5th to move from the 4th to 2nd round this year, do you do it?

    Give Earl, 2018 4th, 2019 5th
    Receiver 2018 2nd

    I highly consider it. We could trade down with our first pick and grab a couple impact players in the 2nd. Looking like that could be a couple really good OL/DL. It may be a little much for Schneider, but I like the possiblity of adding an impact player on a rookie deal.

    • icb12 says:

      No. I don’t make that trade.

      Earl + 4th + 5th for a 2nd? Not me.

      Earl for the 2nd straight up I’d consider that right now.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        ICB12 from Dallas’s perspective I agree 100% but from Seahawks perspective we have zero motivation to make that trade right now when we can easily get a 2nd mid season. Seahawks stated they want a 1st and a high draft pick they have not moved from that position and they don’t have too until they are desperate to dump ET.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think it’s highly unlikely the Seahawks will get a R2 mid season. He’s out of contract in a few months!

          • FresnoHawk says:

            I’d say to Dallas if you want ET its a 1st round pick straight up! If you want permission to talk to ET (work out a deal) and you decided you want to trade for him it will cost you a 1st and a? Seattle should be in no mood to be friendly with Dallas after Dallas insulted Seattle by offering a 3rd round pick and broadcasting it to the whole league which resulted in screwing up the entire FS market. Dallas has been utilizing dirty tactics and ET has been helping them that is why Seattle is imposing ALL fines on ET. Again even if ET shows up for camp there is no guarantee he will PASS his physical! Seattle is not screwing around don’t forget until Seahawks won SuperBowl the owners lead by Jerry Jones did not treat Paul Allen as an equal, they looked down on him didn’t think he knew anything about football! There is a long history of bad blood between Paul Allen & the owners!

            • Rob Staton says:

              Seattle can ask for a R1.

              But Dallas will put the phone down.

              • FresnoHawk says:

                100% true Rob the Seahawks put the phone down on Dallas when they offered a 3rd! The point is Dallas offered a 3rd and then leaked it to the press that’s when the other teams had no choice but to lower their offers. Seattle didn’t show their displeasure they just said No to the other teams. Seattle is acting as if they are perfectly fine with no trade unless they get what they want. You, I and the other teams are the ones sweating this not Pete & John. Pete & John cannot move much off their price because they will never have any credibility in trades in the future. Dallas, Atlanta, and TN need a Super Bowl more than we do. ET would immediately bring in huge marketing $$ for Dallas. ET sitting out saves Seattle $$ & increases the likely hood of a trade with Raiders, NE etc…

                • Rob Staton says:

                  Nobody is going to give Seattle a R1 pick for Earl. Or an early R2. His contract expires in a few months and he’s wanting major money. If he won’t play for Seattle on his current deal, he won’t go anywhere else without a big extension. And it’s going to be extremely difficult to do that now when a lot of potential suitors are low on cap space or have already made plans for the season.

                • Icb12 says:

                  Why should Seattle take a third?
                  There’s a fair possibility they will collect a 3rd round comp pick when he leaves in FA.

                  Of course they hung up the phone.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    To an extent they have to take a stand. They have to be prepared to let him walk. Otherwise how are they ever going to have any chops in a trade ever again?

  27. CharlietheUnicorn says:

    Minor injury for Penny. *crosses fingers*

    • Georgia Hawk says:

      The irony of this post greatly amuses me…if it weren’t for the whole injury thing to begin with.

  28. Ashish says:

    Wide Receivers battle is getting tough internally – outside world don’t think hawks has more talent.

    How about B. Marshall make as 3rd TE – big 6,5 with blocking skills with primary role for 3rd down and Red zone. Ed Dickson can go on PUP which gives him time to be fit and hawks get chance to sort out WR group.
    WR – Baldwin, Tyler, Brown, Moore, Johnson ,Darboh
    TE – Nick V, Dissly & Marshall

    Thoughts?

    • FresnoHawk says:

      Trade one of the WR’s!

    • Bigten says:

      I don’t see darboh making the team unless he somehow blows up in these nextb3 games. Reynolds and even stringfellow seem to have a better shot at this time, as they have made plays in practice and in preseason game one. I see it being a sad end for darboh, Delano and maybe even procise.

      • Largent80 says:

        Wasn’t he injured before the game?…I am hesitant to throw him under the bus especially with the pre-season flavor of the month club in full swing.

        Give this time, as in a Whole pre-seasons worth. That’s what the coaching staff does.

      • FresnoHawk says:

        Pete raved about Procise offseason no way we cut him unless he has a major injury. Procise is a good player but has had bad luck! If we do cut him at some point I guarantee we will drafting another RB next year. If we have enough picks and keep Procise I think we’re still going to draft a RB next year. Pete has a history in college of loading up on RB!

      • AlexUk says:

        Darboh and Prosise won’t be cut this year.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think, as things stand, they both are on the outside looking in. Moore, Marshall, Stringfellow seem to be ahead of Darboh. Prosise — he needs to get back out there NOW. Eventually you say enough is enough.

  29. FresnoHawk says:

    If the FS market is down then why is Eric Berry making 13 million a year and why did Dallas leak to the press they are willing to pay ET 13 million a year? Could it be all the FS stink except EB & ET?
    Jerry Jones is a dirt ball piece of garbage always has been! He thinks we don’t know who he is, all I got to say he better have not broken any laws in his life because if he did we have it all and his pal Trump will not hesitate to go after him.

  30. All I see is 12s says:

    Darbo will probably be traded the day before cut day for a seventh rounder.

  31. FresnoHawk says:

    Cap savings Thorpe 1.8 mil, Shamar Stephenson 1 mil, Ryan 2.6 mil, Myers 200k, Fowler 200k = 5.8 mill in cap space add that to ET cap savings we are well over 20 million cap space this year. That’s not counting other CB’s on roster but we could easily add another CB so it’s a wash. What do you think we do with over 20 million and at least 1 WR to trade this year?

  32. Coleslaw says:

    Roster battle nobody’s talking about: Sub package DT

    Sub package DL is all but set with DEs Clark and Mingo, and DT Rasheem Green. I think Naz and QJeff and probably Tom Johnson are fighting for that spot. Itll be a rotation so I should say they trying to separate themselves from the rest. My money’s on Naz, let the old guy and QJeff rotate in.

  33. cha says:

    Penny broke a finger. Out 3-4 weeks per Condotta & Rapaport. Let’s hope he’s ready for Week One.

    • Logan Lynch says:

      Obviously not ideal with him missing the rest of the preseason, but as far as injuries go I’d rather have this than a lot of others. Even a groin or hammy strain is arguably worse since they have the tendency to linger and get re-injured. Hopefully he heals up correctly and is ready for the regular season.