Haason Reddick — top-20 talent
Nobody has had a better Senior Bowl.
Here are a couple of highlights from today’s drills:
After this week, the #Seahawks will be lucky if Haason Reddick is there at #26. Another big day: pic.twitter.com/VNuqOwTF3j
— Rob Staton (@robstaton) January 26, 2017
When we mocked him to Seattle in round one in December, there was a mixed reaction. Today, it seems pretty unlikely he’ll even last until the #26 pick.
Play recognition, quickness to close on the ball-carrier, cover skills, the ability to play the edge and rush the passer. He’s highly impressive.
He has similar size to Ryan Shazier with the athleticism to match. Shazier was the #15 pick in 2014. That’s starting to feel possible for Reddick.
At the end of the 11v11 drills he was interviewed by the NFL Network. He spoke really well. Teams are going to love his physical profile, incredible production, character and versatility and stamp him firmly in the first round.
It’s safe to say, the Seahawks will be lucky to get him.
Here’s what Tony Pauline had to say about Reddick’s performance yesterday:
“You can already tell the linebacker has the “it” factor. He was dominant in pass-rushing drills both blitzing as a stand-up linebacker and coming out of a three-point stance. In several instances he beat opponents so badly Reddick got a rise from scouts in attendance.”
And here’s Mick Mayock’s take:
I had several scouting friends of mine asking me if I had seen Reddick. I had and loved what I saw. At 6-foot-1 and 237 pounds, he rushed the quarterback, where he’s comfortable, and showed he could play in coverage, both in man and zone. And in team drills he was everywhere. For a guy most consider a “tweener” he made a big statement on Wednesday. He’s an ultra-versatile player.
Top-20 pick? Looks that way.
Obi Melifonwu at cornerback?
At the end of day two Daniel Jeremiah and Mike Mayock picked their two best performers. Mayock unsurprisingly went with Haason Reddick. Jeremiah picked Connecticut safety Obi Melifonwu.
He’s an intriguing player. If you missed the piece we did on him in November, check it out.
Melifonwu measured at 6-4 and 219lbs in Mobile with 32 5/8 inch arms. He’s expected to have an insane workout at the combine, with many touting a 40-inch vertical and a possible 4.4 forty.
Considering his size, length and athletic profile, would the Seahawks be interested? And if so, how would they use him?
It’d be very easy to single him out as a strong safety prospect given his size. Can he convert to cornerback like another UConn athlete Byron Jones? Possibly. Like Jones he doesn’t necessarily have to be strictly an outside corner. He can be moved around as Mayock notes:
He’s a matchup chess piece with movement skills. If Greg Olsen comes to town, you say, “That’s your guy.” The next week a wide receiver like Mike Evans comes to town, you say, “Go get him.”
The Seahawks tried this type of role with Brandon Browner in pre-season. Generally they handled tight ends a lot better in 2016 — but adding a player capable of playing in the slot, outside or backing up the two safety’s might be intriguing.
Plus he has the complete physical profile they look for. He’s big and lean with ideal length. He’s a superb athlete. He has the +32-inch arms. He’s the type of athlete they’ve drafted in the first round previously.
If the likes of Reddick, Garett Bolles, Ryan Ramczyk and Zach Cunningham are off the board — it could be an option at #26.
That said, he’s going to need to show he has the loose hips and short-area quickness required to play cornerback. Not everybody watching today’s practise was overly impressed with Melifonwu:
Obi Melifonwu/DB/Connecticut looks stiff flipping his hips and changing direction, struggling to track and catch deep balls #SeniorBowl
— Draft Analyst (@DraftAnalyst1) January 26, 2017
Keep an eye on his three-cone and short-shuttle times at the combine.
Here he is in coverage:
Obi Melifonwu is 6'4" Safety RT @PFF_Steve: Syracuse WR Amba Etta-Tawo vs UConn safety Obi Melifonwu #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/EN2Yslpx34
— Footballzone (@UReady4Football) January 25, 2017
The idea of Melfionwu being a defensive chess piece is exciting — but it’s also a project and a gamble. Byron Jones worked for Dallas but there’s no guarantee lightning will strike twice.
And while Haason Reddick looks like a relatively straight forward plug-in-and-play linebacker with impact potential — Melifonwu’s success would depend on his ability to forge a role creating a high ceiling, low floor situation.
Rasul Douglas had a good day today
Aside from Melifonwu, there’s really only West Virginia’s Rasul Douglas and Florida State’s Marquez White that fit Seattle’s cornerback profile. It was good to see Douglas having a good outing in the 11v11’s:
Possible #Seahawks target Rasul Douglas (CB) having a good day at the Senior Bowl pic.twitter.com/Ym2hMMR6Bd
— Rob Staton (@robstaton) January 26, 2017
Douglas was a playmaker in 2016 with eight picks. The Seahawks need to force more turnovers next season and he could easily be on their radar. Keep an eye on him at the combine among a loaded group of underclassmen.
North team gravitates to Dan Feeney
A quick note about the end of the North practise today. Chicago coach John Fox called the players into the huddle and read out the schedule for tomorrow. After he’d finished he called out Dan Feeney (G, Indiana) specifically to end the meeting.
Little things like this are worth paying attention to. Leadership is important and the players reacted positively to Fox’s announcement. Feeney is all business. He’s not a flashy player but he’s destined to be an extremely competent right guard for someone at the next level.
South practise notes
A number of injuries on the south roster hampered today’s practise, with a collection of late arrivals filling in.
Eddie Vanderdoes continues to impress. I wasn’t a big fan during his time at UCLA. He always looked out of shape, badly conditioned and he struggled to live up to his previous recruiting hype. He looks a bit lighter in Mobile and could stand to lose another 10-15lbs.
He jumps between out of control and really refined and quick. It’s boom or bust but you can live with that. At least he’s showing a flash. When he’s on it he has a devastating get-off, shoots the gap and he can penetrate. Other times he’ll end up with his face in the dirt. Coach him to be more controlled and in a year or two he could be a nice rotational piece to a D-line.
Alabama’s Dalvin Tomlinson looked good again in the OL vs DL drills. He had his way with recent call-up Eric Smith from Virginia.
LSU linebacker Duke Riley flashed some nice closing speed and recognition in the 11v11’s. It’ll be interesting to go back and watch more of his tape. Cal quarterback David Webb also showed a really nice touch and accuracy. He’ll be a nice project for somebody.
The alternative to Haason Reddick
I spent a bit of time going back to focus on Houston linebacker Tyus Bowser after the second practise concluded. If Haason Reddick is off the board before Seattle’s pick, Bowser might be a nice consolation prize.
He’s better in space/coverage than I expected after watching a game tape. He didn’t necessarily show that in Mobile during drills — but there’s something to work with.
We saw the damage he could do as a pass rusher on Wednesday, demolishing Antonio Garcia with a superb bend. It was like watching the Matrix the way he dipped, retained balance and finished. His get-off and explosion were top notch.
He’s in tremendous shape and looks like a great athlete. He’s slightly bigger than Reddick at 6-2 1/2, 244lbs and with 33-inch arms. That’s Bruce Irvin-type size and the expectation is he’ll have a great combine.
We’ll see how much his stock grows in Indy but don’t be shocked if he’s firmly in the second round range at least. He’s nowhere near as polished as Reddick — but that’s no surprise. Physically they might have similar ceilings.
If you’re wondering why Pete Carroll noted ‘linebacker’ among Seattle’s needs and desires in his recent press conference — here’s why: Haason Reddick, Tyus Bowser, Zach Cunningham are three reasons. There a quite a few others too. This is a good looking class of linebackers and worth tapping into.
The list of “Seahawk-y” targets keeps getting narrowed down, in a good way. So many intriguing talents in this draft class. Praying to keep our second round pick
Douglas looks like a potential fit for us in the limited play of his I’ve seen. What round is he projected?
Question: is there a group or player or two of 3-tech DTs who can rush that we could look at? I know they are rare, but is there someone like Wormley or McDowell, etc who could make it to 26 we would have on our board somewhere?
Douglas’ stock wide open. Has the size/length and the production. Decent Senior Bowl. Combine will determine if it’s day two or day three.
I think CB may be a position we target in free agency. Here’s why –
We can all agree there’s a chance the Hawks spend big on an outside UFA this off-season. They have cap space and glaring needs at 3-4 starting positions. We know they like to add competition in free agency, so it’s not all on the draft to fulfill immediate needs. With so many needs (LT, RT, CB, DT), it would be nice to write off at least 1 of those needs completely with a stud UFA. For a moment, let’s assume that’s their strategy.
There’s a lot of discussion on OT’s (Wagner, Reiff, etc) and DT (hello Calais Campbell). I think spending big on OT is unlikely, for better or worse. The Hawks are very picky about the type of OL they draft, and I figure they’d want the same attributes in a premium FA. Sowell & Webb don’t fit the type, but they were also cheap “competition” FA’s rather than an expensive free agent. There are very few talented OT’s available, and none of them are very athletic. Wagner is a great example (he’s also predominantly played in man-blocking schemes going back to his days in Wisconsin).
Campbell would be perfect at DT, but he’ll be pricey, and there will be intense competition for his services. Would he leave Arizona to join a division rival? It may be tough to land CC. Interior pass rusher is also less of a need than OT & CB. Besides Campbell and Kawann Short, the other premium DT’s are all primarily run stuffers (Brandon Williams, Dontari Poe, Jon Hankins). Short is expected to demand $16-19 million on the open market. I can’t see the Hawks paying that price on a position they’ve been very frugal with under PCJS. They’ve already been connected to Terrell McClain from Dallas, who would be a fairly cheap target (more their style at DT).
I think we should consider the possibility that the Hawks look to land a top CB in free agency. I know, I know. Cary Williams was a bust, but Cary was never a good corner – that was a bad signing for the Hawks. If they don’t land a starting quality CB in free agency, it creates huge pressure to draft an instant impact CB early (something they’ve never done before). They very well may do so, because this CB class is loaded, but I still think they’re more likely to spend big on CB than OT or DT.
I’m not just spit-balling here, I have the ideal candidate in mind – A.J. Bouye. He played at a shutdown CB level this season for Houston’s vaunted defense. PFF graded him as their #3 CB in the NFL this season, and Coach O’Brien said this: “Just in talking to people around the league that I really trust, I think he’s viewed as a top corner.”
Bouye is only 25 years old, he’s athletic, and judging by pictures – has vines for arms. He plays outside and in the slot. He’s going to get a big contract with the rising cap, but he’s unlikely to reset the CB market with only 1 year as a starter under his belt. Houston also has 3 quality CB’s under contract (Joseph, Jackson, Johnson) so they may not be willing to pony up to re-sign him. If the Hawks could land Bouye for something like 4 yrs/$50 million, I’d be ecstatic. There are a few other potential CB targets hitting UFA as well (Trumaine Johnson & Mo Claiborne for example).
They would potentially have 2 elite CB’s, and could focus on other positions at the top of the draft. Where as a guy like Haason Reddick could be considered a bit of a luxury with huge needs at OT and CB, signing Bouye would make a selection like Reddick more viable. If Bolles falls to them, they wouldn’t have to debate the need for CB vs OT. It’s a slam dunk if the price isn’t too high.
The only CB I would want them to consider is Maxwell if he gets cut by Miami.
Bouye is getting a monster deal and no way the Texans let him walk.
Never say never!
The Texans have a lot of good defensive players that they have to pay, not to mention Osweilers huge contract. So they may let Bouye walk and figure they will pick another cb in the draft.
Buoye arm length might be an issue — 31.5 inches. Borderline. But he is only 6-0 and 185lbs. Would be a bit smaller than they’ve gone with.
Source?
http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/30323
Where/when is that measurement taken from? It looks like a pre-combine scouting estimate that you’ll often see, especially since it lists him at 5’11.
It’s especially hard to trust when coaches and teammates have repeatedly referenced his great length, and just by looking at pictures of him. He got vines.
It’s the ESPN draft profile and considering it specifically quotes five eighths of an inch I suspect it is entirely accurate. If not they would’ve just listed a cursory ’31 inches’ or ’32 inches’.
If so (which I still have serious doubt in – he looks very close to Chris Harris in pics) good thing he’s already proven he can play at an elite level in a variety of roles. There’s other top CBs like Claiborne and Johnson available as well with over 33″ arms who could be targets too – the point of my comment…
I don’t see any reason to doubt it.
I’m not against a veteran addition — but a veteran addition is still likely going to have to fit into their profile.
Bouye measured 6’0 and 2/8″ inch tall at his pro day (draftscout), so this unsourced ESPN measurment already got that wrong. Looks like an obvious reason to doubt the others to me…
ESPN aren’t going to pluck out a number as specific as 31 5/8 inches. That’s incredibly specific. If someone can show me evidence of an alternative I’ll take it on board. At the moment it’s the only evidence we have.
Where else do players get their arm length’s officially measured except for the combine, senior bowl, and shrine game? None of which Bouye participated in. The only place he was officially measured was for height at his pro day, and ESPN was a half inch short on that. The eye test is more reliable in this case.
Bouye’s a stud.
It sounds like you’re just going to keep trying to talk yourself into it.
Can only follow the logic
Ignoring the only number we have as evidence because, well, you never know it might be wrong — this is not logic.
“You never know, it might be wrong” Yeah that’s my argument, c’mon….
It is your argument though. ESPN have quoted an arm measurement which is very specific. And you’re saying it might be wrong.
JT, I have honest question. You wrote an in-depth and articulate reply to why the Seahawks should chase Bouye in Free Agency, but Kenneth Arthur over at Field Gulls wrote an in-depth article talking about Bouye’s possible fit with the Seahawks as well. I’m a tad concerned because you seem to have ripped a lot of the same information from that exact article, which Kenneth Arthur wrote way before you posted your reply. What I’m saying is, don’t push Rob to site his information when you can’t site the article you seemed to draw a lot your information from.
SEAhemoth – I haven’t read the article you’re talking about, in fact I don’t read the field gulls website. All my thoughts were 100% my own. I only read SDB and follow certain guys on twitter for Seahawks draft info. I referenced in the previous SDB post (senior bowl day 2) that I thought the Hawks could spend big on CB in free agency, and followed up with this post after I had time to do a little homework on it.
I wasn’t trying to push Staton to site the info, rather pointing out that it couldn’t be done (as his arm length was never officially measured during the pre-draft process). He didn’t participate at any of the events where length is officially measured.
Ha, I was just posting below about the possiblity of a veteran cornerback as you posted this…
In theory, Bouye sounds like a good possible target and he does have youth on his side, but consider as well that they would have to be sure he would thrive in our style and locker room, which is no given even for some very good CBs out there. Might be a big risk in that sense at the price he will go for. Spotrac estimates $11.7m/apy, which you were close to at $12.5m: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/a.j.-bouye-12795/market-value/
The LOB seems like an inclusive group doesn’t it? They appreciate each other’s talent, that’s for sure.
I think his talent level and versatility lend itself to any scheme, but you’re right, it’s no sure thing.
Right, just talkin risk/reward/cost on a theoretical level. Can’t say I’ve watched him really at all.
The main thing against signing a FA CB is cost. Recent years have shown that good FA CBs often fetch massive money. I don’t see that changing any time soon. However, guys are often cut/released for various reasons and it seems those types are more in line with what we’d look to do. I wonder about Sam Shields, who I hear may be released? Maxwell is another obvious name to monitor. That first wave of FA signings will likely pass us by, and that cost is a key reason we draft and develop our own guys. I love our Front Office’s strategy in this regard, but this year I could see a first round corner. A guy like Sidney Jones would be sweet. I think of Marcus Peters. You could tell he could ball out yet still went fairly late in round one…
Agreed that the cost makes it look unlikely, even if he’d be a great upgrade, that’s 12M on your second CB and then you get into rewarding you’re guys, and reconcile that with paying a newbie more than Earl. Then you have 3/4 of the LOB making 35m, plus Kam and maybe on a new contract so somewhere in the 40s, and then the other DBs, and $olving the other problems on the roster, really hard to see them doing this for me.
While Bouye and Malcolm Butler will be the most expensive of the CBs
There could also be some cheaper ‘not great’ former 1st round CBs to take a flier on and see if they can be coached up in the system. Amukamara, Kirkpatrick, Gilmore
Why spend money when you can draft one, maybe two from the deepest cornerback classes in recent memory?
That could easily be what they do. I’m suggesting it’s a possibility since it hasn’t really been covered on this blog.
However, when the league zigs, the Hawks often zag. Plus for all the reasons mentioned above – There’s arguably more realistic high priced FA options at CB than OT and DT. The Hawks need a day 1 starter at CB, and haven’t drafted a CB earlier than the 4th round before. They like to fill glaring needs before the draft to give the team options, and they may view CB as the most glaring need.
It’s true that the Hawks have a pattern of defying conventional logic in the league. But they always do it in a way that in financially responsible with planning for the future in mind. It doesn’t make sense at all to sign a big-contract free agent CB (all arguments of arm length aside) when you can get one (or two) in the draft for a fraction of the price that will be around a while. I get that you want a day one starter. I completely agree that it’s the number one need this offseason. But the idea just doesn’t add up financial and is certainly not a great way to plan for the future.
This has been a nice thought experiment but the Hawks have very specific patterns of doing things, many of which have been discussed or discovered by Rob. It’s definitely not worth people getting all worked up about. Let’s keep our cool folks. We all love the same team. Let’s not forget that. Cheers!
I appreciate brainstorming ideas, the reasons I don’t think it will happen are as follows:
– They’ve already got significant Cap space allocated to the secondary
– How would it go over if they give a huge contract to an outsider (in the secondary), while Kam doesn’t have a new contract.
– It’s a strong CB class in the draft
– Cary Williams, enough said 🙂
But I could definitely be wrong and I do like Bouye a lot, would patch the hole in the secondary real quick.
Didn’t AJ Bouye say he wants to return to Houston? You find a way to keep good players and I think the Texans will.
All great points Matt B. Ultimately, there’s reasons making any particular signing unlikely. Staton always says the point of the blog is to discuss the different possibilities for the Hawks. I don’t think the possibility of a quality CB signing has really been discussed yet, although there’s probably been some comments about it.
Bouye wants back, and Houston of course wants Bouye. But there’s issues with bringing him back
– Houston doesn’t have a ton of cap space
– Houston has 3 quality CBs under contract already
– coach O’Brien said this: “We really want him back and hopefully we can get something done where he can be back, but it’s tough.” – classic sign that he may be outside their price range
‘Staton’ also says we remain civil. My name is Rob.
We started a conversation about Buoye. I highlighted his length and measurements were out of Seattle’s preferred profile. You rejected the only measurement we have as evidence.
There’s not really anywhere to go after that.
I thought the point of this blog was to identify different possibilities for the Hawks in the draft (which is heavily affected by free agency). My frustration is borne from the fact that I put in some effort to discuss a legit possibility in free agency which would have a big impact on the Hawks and their upcoming draft.
So much is covered on this blog, which is amazing, yet I haven’t seen any real discussion on the CB free agent market. I would think it’d be encouraged to open the discussion on a legit possibility. I don’t recall you commenting on any other part of my original comment – where the main point was on CB’s in general, not just Bouye.
Instead, you’ve once again dismissed a post of mine by nit-picking one piece of “evidence” about Bouye – evidence that has serious holes in it for the reasons I’ve mentioned. Here’s one more hole for good measure – if you use the “2013 draft results” drop down search on that Bouye ESPN page, you can view other prospects from that class. ESPN has incorrect measurements for a bunch of 1st round picks alone. For instance, Eric Fisher – the #1 overall pick – has a different arm length result on his ESPN profile than he recorded at either the combine or senior bowl.
You made a suggestion about Buoye. I had a look at his length, which is important for any potential CB as we know, and found a listing of 31 2/8 inches on ESPN. That would put him, more than likely, out of Seattle’s range. You don’t want to believe that’s accurate, despite it being very specific. At the moment it’s all we have. That’s not nitpicking. It’s getting to the crux of the matter.
As for the point of the blog — I encourage everyone to discuss whatever they want. If a point is challenged though, don’t start calling me ‘Staton’ and acting up about it. It’s a fair challenge, so how about losing the attitude?
Based on his play here it is hard not to see Riddick as a top 20 pick. Most impressive guy I have seen in Senior owl practices including Noah Spence last year.
One key thing to remember though most of the elite talent is not here at the Senior Bowl. Only 3 first rounders last year and likely the same this year. It is my favourite week of the year and lots of gems to be found here but always important to remember the elite guys are not here.
Hmm, well Spence was drafted 39th, so there’s a chance!
There were some big time character concerns with Spence. None with Riddick.
None except for that whole felony assault charge deal.
Overall I’m feeling way more excited about this draft than last year’s. If guys like reddick start rising, someone else is going to fall that was considered a top 20 prospect. It seems hard to believe all the possible targets are off the board by 26, and if not, I could see the Hawks moving up or down (again, depending on the potential penalty pick). Fun to think that even if Reddick rises, maybe Budda or Jones falls just enough. One thing that’s clear is that all the fun speculation of grabbing a luxury pick in round 1 (like Njoku) plus grabbing a guy like Reddick in the 2nd and Luani in the 3rd just isn’t going to happen. Once again Rob’s favorites start shooting up the board as we get closer. But some deep talent will still be there. Well done, sir.
First of all, just want to say thanks for the great coverage, Rob. (and everybody else posting notes)
I initially scoffed a bit at the idea some have thrown out here before, but if Byron Maxwell is made available (cut or late pick trade for Fins cap relief), might he actually be worth it?
1. We know he fits in the system, technique, and locker room. That is far from a given with any corners in the draft. There would not even be an adaptation time. (of course, we should still draft a developmental corner, just saying there are no guarantees, especially after the top guys are gone, for someone to really make the leap and be an upgrade from year one, day one, as a Seahawks CB)
2. We know he meets our physical requirements which, as we have seen these days, is harder to find than it might seem.
3. We talked a lot earlier in the year about the Hawks wanting players that have that knack for creating turnovers. His 33.5 in. (!) arms once again forced 4 fumbles this year. I think I remember PC even said after he left that Maxi was just plain good at punching it out. How many games might 4 extra turnovers have flipped for us this year…?
4. We couldn’t make it happen a couple years ago, but might he be worth it now that we have some cap room to play with and the cap continues to inflate? On his current $10.5m/apy deal? At $8-9m now that he will be 29 this Feb.? (if Lane is worth $5.7m/apy, $7.2m hit in his final two years…)
I understand why he left, but I don’t think bridges were burned, and maybe he would gladly come back now that he has made some money and realizes the brotherhood and playoff football he has been missing out on in Seattle.
If he is released, Seattle needs to jump on that. Instant upgrade. I love a lot of the cornerbacks were looking at , but they take time to develop. B max steps right
I don’t think this will happen. He played really well for them last year and Miami has plenty of cap space.
I second this, the Dolphins traded for him and his current contract after what many would say was a poor year in Philadelphia. After performing better in Miami this year I would be very surprised if they cut him or looked to unload him for late round draft relief. Would be nice to get the gang back together, but I really look at the secondary now and my thought is that if we are going to extend the super bowl window we need to start developing some young talent there again. We already have a high priced secondary with Sherman, Chancellor, Thomas and Lane, and yet we haven’t been able to have quite the success we used to have. I wonder if part of this is the fact that there’s so much tape on these guys and how we play that other teams are able to limit mistakes against us and pick us apart.
Wow the defensive line talent vs offensive line talent seems to be getting more one sided every year. Finding and developing OL is going to be a huge factor in determining organizations success going forward. That is why I am kind of glad the Hawks took a flyer on Fant last year and are not afraid to think outside the box.
Think about it for a second was there an OT at the Senior Bowl who will be better than Fant next year? I really don’t think so if Fant improves as expected in an NFL system. Certainly no one here with his measurables.
PFF gave Fant the lowest grade of any NFL player who qualified by snaps played. I believe NFL1000 had a similar result.
I didn’t see anything promising from him all season, he just constantly got dominated.
This senior bowl crop of OT’s mostly suck. While Fant warmed the bench for Western Kentucky, he watched Forrest Lamp play at an All-America level at LT. Lamp is destined to play guard, but I’d much, much rather have his stumpy arms at LT than Fant.
It’s not going to happen, but maybe they’ll bring in a real football player to compete at LT (hopefully Bolles)
I agree about Bolles still the best option in Rd #1 if he is on the board.
As for Fant you realize he never played a snap on the OL till this year right? Then had to start at LT in his rookie year so his first live reps in a football game on the OL were at LT in the NFL. The fact that he survived is nothing short of amazing. Was he great of course not. How could he be. we are talking about how bad this group of tackles technique is and they have played OL their whole lives in most cases.
I like Forrest Lamp a lot as a Guard but he is far from a Rd #1 LT prospect. He got rag dolled the kid from Villanova on one of his few reps at LT imagine what Chandler Jones would do to him. He is obviously going to be better techniquely than Fant at this point but lets have this discussion again in a year or two. You cannot teach Fants length and athletiscm it is rare and why the Hawks are so high on him despite his struggles this year.
Walter Jones supposedly commented that he thought Fant could be a good LT.
he might know more about playing Lt than any of us
But could, and if and when are hard to answer now
Yeah I don’t like Fant as a R1 LT prospect either. He’s destined to play OG. I was just comparing to Fant to give my answer to your initial Q?
I’m fully aware of Fant’s background and athleticism, which is why I loved that the Hawks stashed him as a UDFA. But he was no where near ready for live bullets this season. I wouldn’t say he “survived” when multiple ratings services considered him the worst (or among the worst) players in the entire league, regardless of position.
His struggles definitely diminished my hope for him, rather than increase them just by getting on the field. The learning curve is great enough for most young OLs, let alone UDFa’s essentially off the street. It’s seems like a huge stretch to me to bank on his development into a competent player.
I know my view on Fant is negative, but I have to call it like I see it. I hope he proves me wrong.
JT I think you’re spot on with where he’s at now, he didn’t survive the season in any way without lowering the bar for how good your players should be. One of the worst on the league should never be good enough.
If that’s better than they expected he could do, than WHY didn’t they find someone else???? He didn’t do that poorly considering he’s a college basketball player, well ok, but we started a college bball player at LT, in a SB year? You can’t make this stuff up.
Can they see that fixing the OL at market value, would have been the simplest way to improve the roster these past two years. It’s like their system is so rad, they can throw season after season away sticking to it and it doesn’t phase them. It’s fustrating, really, really frustrating, because I have the feeling this will happen again, and then we’ll go into 2018 with the same issue, and Pete will give more press conferences saying we don’t need anyone at OL, these guys are just starting to get it…
in a perfect world, they get a couple of good vets to start on the o line.
But a perfect world is one with no salary cap and no competition to sign them.
Hawks have cap room, but 19 teams have more and at least 10-12 teams need to fix their o lines also.
I really hope they get 2 vets who can at least compete on the o line and focus on defense in the draft, but there are many factors we do not see that will compromise what they really want also
Rob, just a closing note on our discussion yesterday, I checked and Deion Jones did indeed run a blazing 4.39 at his pro day. Nice call.
Lots of options for Hawks at 26, and even second round (still crossing fingers that they don’t lose that pick). Last year Jarran Reed seemed like a pipe dream to fall even to 26. Most people mocked him top 20-25 and we got him in the second round. There’s going to be a plethora of talent available at CB, S, and LB at 26, and maybe even Bolles, Ramczyk, or Robinson too. Safe to say this draft has a lot of stars in it, especially in the first two rounds. But the drop off might be earlier than previous years.
I am curious Rob.
I feel like we need to ‘Double Down’ on another RB like Prosise.
We saw what a RB/WR hybrid type can do in this offense. ELECTRIC!
I know this sounds crazy, but what about using R1 to take Christian Mccaffrey?
Imagine a defense trying to stop this:
Baldwin, Lockett, Jimmy, Prosise, and Mccaffrey??#Impossible.
Or what about Ohio state RB/WR Curtis Samuel, or Samaje Perine?
Shouldn’t we draft another Prosise-like RB/WR? If he gets hurt, we have serious insurance…and imagine trying to cover both Prosise and Mccaffrey out of the backfield???
Any other RB/WR compare, Rob??
Sorry for butting in if this was a question just for Rob, but please don’t say Curtis Samuel too loud, cause I start drooling all over my keyboard… =)
As much as I love him (think he is a tougher Percy without the baggage), the problem here might simply be the word “need”. As nice as it would be to add another offensive weapon, will our real needs elsewhere (CB, LB, OL, S) really allow us to take a “luxury” pick in Rds. 1-2?
We haven’t even seen what Rawls and Prosise can do together (like hopefully stay healthy, for one, by splitting the carries). And Alex Collins seemed to be offering something, at least as a backup, late in the year. Don’t forget the hope for Pope too, at least as insurance for Rawls. Plus, is another RB really what is going to solve our running game woes?
There are a lot of backs this year, and I think they will find one in later rounds or UDFA, but have a hard time seeing it happening early on. (maybe take a swing on Jamaal Williams or nab James Conner for a short-yardage hammer: https://twitter.com/SportsGuyTweets/status/824086923715219456). Certainly won’t put it completely past them, though, if they do fall in love with someone and are able to fill key needs in FA!
Agree Sea Mode! Shhhhh… “There is no Curtis Samuel”… HAH
I feel the hawks should use FA on a CB and OT.
Perhaps Trumaine Johnson or Stephon Gilmore or Buoye…
and Riley Reiff or Wagner, Kalil, or Remmers…
Sign people that can PLAY the ACTUAL position…Cary Williams was HORRIBLE the year before they signed him… Sowell and Webb were at best backups…sign actual TALENT…
So if that was done, they could pick one of these guys early…it would make the offense DEADLY IMO.
I think they should add another RB at some point. Could be another one like Prosise. Could be a bell-cow type. It’s something they have to consider.
IMO taking McCaffrey early would be a mistake. I like him but a hedge against Prosise’s health in R1 is a little rich for me. Equally like Curtis Samuel but again, how high is he going to go? Top-45?
I think they’ll look for value here. Let’s see who shines at the combine and might be around late day two, or day three. Might look at veteran options too depending on who’s out there.
Do you agree they should resign Marcel Reece?
He is a good FB, and his WR routes are talented…
Having Reece in the offseason with Prosise and Rawls seems very strong and positive…Reece is a true vet in that RB room…Reece talked to Rawls after Rawl’s TD, and he seemed to be mentoring him, which I feel Rawls needs… He is so full of energy, he kinda looked like Christine Michael a few times falling over his own feet…
Any other RB/WR combos?
Depends on money and how much they have left after addressing other needs. He played well but he is what he is at this stage of his career.
I’m hoping they are able to re-sign him for another year on a vet minimum type of deal while providing some camp competition with Farmer (he was our prospect in training camp before he got hurt right?) and maybe a late round draft pick or UDFA. Although to be honest, given our O-Line problems, I’d probably pay him more than he’s worth just to provide an extra blocker who obviously understands football and is also a sneaky good receiver out of the backfield.
Jamaal Williams getting good reviews so far from Pauline. I really do think he has pass-catching potential too from having watched quite a bit of his tape. Short arms, but nice big hands…
4 years of experience in a zone-blocking scheme and he is still only 21.
Think he’s gonna be a riser though. Already seen news of interest from Falcons (really?), Bears, and Rams.
School: BYU
Ht: 6000
Wt: 211
Arm: 30 4/8
Hand: 9 5/8
Tues: I was surprised by the speed and quickness Williams showed. He hits the hole with authority and ran hard all day.
Wed: Williams was one of the better backs of the day. He ran the ball well on the inside, picking his way through the traffic and he also looked terrific catching the ball out of the backfield. He was the best of all the backs in blocking drills.
http://draftanalyst.com/senior-bowl-south-team-practice-page
Seattle liked RB Latavius Murray coming out a few years back. Let’s see if they show interest in him again. Big back, decent hands, would be a good fit in a committee.
I’m not sold on him personally. One of a collection of back’s that look like they’ll be fairly average at the next level IMO. 211lbs at 6-0 is quite light as well for a team that wants to pound it.
While there are some things to like about Jamal Williams, I’m not sold on him by any means. His body type doesn’t seem like he could become a legit workhorse. He has skinny legs, runs tall. I’m more on board with some of the other names, esp Perine if he tests well enough, esp burst wise (10 yard split). I like guys who are shorter, built low, and win the leverage battle, and make a smaller strike zone in terms of evading tackler s or taking square hits. Williams is more like Kevin Smith or Matt Forte in body type. I’m looking for Zeke, Ray Rice, MJD.
I’d like to see him pack on 10 lbs. It looks like he lost weight to excel in drills. I’m curious to see how he will perform at the combine this year, especially how explosive his lower body is. All I know is that he runs like he wants to punish anyone trying to tackle him and he is as tough as they come. I think a mentality and physicality like his is something the locker room needs.
I think another viable Prosise-type option would be Alvin Kamara from Tennessee. He’s a shifty back that runs with some physicality (won’t tow tacklers, but doesn’t go down on first contact either), and is a contributor in the passing game (40 Rec and 4 TDs in 2016) and as a punt returner (18 returns for a 10.2 yd avg in 2016). I think McCaffrey might go too high to be feasible for the Hawks, but Kamara, Samuel and Perine are likely possibilities.
FA DT Terrell McClain. One to keep an eye on this off-season.
Big fan of LB Tyus Bowser. So much upside.
EDGE Carroll Phillips. That dude is quick twitch. He’s a snap jumper.
How about Tarell Basham? Another twitchy edge guy.
Some of these edge players are destined to fall, there’s too many good ones in this class
Basham is one of my favourite guys as a developemental edge rusher. I thought he performed really well in the drills and showed good initial burst. Has pretty good size. I guess it all depends on his 10yd split at the combine.
I like him, but more of a hand in the dirt DE.
Seattle is set, except for depth, at the off-ball LB position. They need a SAM. You can find a Malcolm Smith, KPL, LeRoy Hill type on day 3 or UDFA.
Agreed there. He looked lost as an LB when they tried to put him in space / coverage.
I am with you 100% in Phillips and Bowser. They are going to be fun to watch at combine as I think they both will test well.
What role do you see for them with the Hawks?
Same as Bruce. Although more 2 point stance. Someone they can bring off the edge and bring extra pressure with.
Trev, he’s got that backstory too. Him, his mom, and 2 sisters were evicted and homeless for awhile when he was younger, and to help make money he’d work at a funeral home for $50 a day. From Liberty City (Miami).
The same guy that mentored and took RB De’Vonta Freeman under his wing, was the same guy that did the same thing with Phillips.
Obviously as you know, it doesn’t mean they’ll draft him, but like we said, he’s an option. However, they do draft a guy or two every year from the SR bowl.
Great info Vol! Given how raw Bowser is and how little football he has played being a basketball player first you have to think he has not even scratched the surface of his talent.
I think Phillips is a much better player now but Bowser seems to have the bigger upside. Really like him a lot based on limited viewing.
I’d say your right.
What he did in 8 games this year was impressive.
Rob, with the rise of some of these players this week, how much do you see your mock draft change to accommodate some of these risers?
On another note: Has anyone seen the Seahawks scouting team on NFL Network?
I haven’t seen any of them shown. Just curious.
They’ve been incognito. Probably sitting high up in the bleachers.
Formal interview with LB Carroll Phillips and 2 different sources say they’re one of the teams showing the most interest in DB Obi Melifonwu.
I know one change… Haason Reddick in the top-25!
Provided my wife doesn’t give birth in the next 24 hours, I’ll have a new mock up tomorrow.
Yea, don’t be doing the mock when she’s in labor 😜 Detrimental to your health 😜
🙂
This! Family first. Well wait. 😀
*we’ll
Dead on with Reddick most surprising and impressive Senior Bowl practices I have seen. That guy is going to be a difference maker.
They said he wore the #7 at Temple and they only let true leaders / character players wear single digit #s it is like White at LSU.
The more I learn about him the more I like the player and want to pull for him no matter who drafts him. My bad for giving you grief the first time you mocked him to the Hawks months ago. Now I think it is wishful thinking that he could be there for us at 26.
Reddick, Wags and KJ would be the best LB corp in the league and all of them would be 3 down guys. We have bigger needs but not sure anyone would have a bigger impact on the defensive side of the ball.
Doesn’t have the production, but Florida St CB Marquez White has superb technique. Wow! Has the length too. Could be a nickel corner guy on day 3.
They hardly ever threw at this guy in college.
His reps today blew me away.
Bball background and high character. Runs a camp for underprivileged kids in his hometown.
I was thinking the exact same thing watching him today and was trying to find out more about him.
What am I missing with this guy? Size, length and technique all there! How has he not got more press? Played in a big program.
Big draft hasn’t mentioned his name. Maybe they think hes too skinny? As a starter he gave up 1 TD and never more than 50 yds receiving. Because teams hardly threw at him, he doesn’t have eye popping stats.
When I watched him last year, Jalen Ramsey was targeted more.
Another DB I like is Miami S Rayshawn Jenkins. Late day 3, but that’s a big safety at 6’1, 220 lbs.
Fast, physical, and he’s one mean dude. The scheme he played in limited him I thought. Was asked to do too much when he should just be flying around the field playing fast and loose.
Zay Jones. What say you Rob?
He made some nice plays today. Had a better day compared to what I saw previously.
Grambling St WR Chad Williams continued to impress me. He proved he could hang with the ‘big boy school’ prospects. Nice build, looks pretty athletic.
Rob, you nailed it on Isaac Asiata my man.
IDK if you watched any of the Shrine game or the practices, but Utah RT Sam Tevi is another good one. Was a DT his first year or so at Utah and converted over.
Hope he gets a combine invite. That O-line is intense.
The left side of the Utah OL was better than ours last year 🙂
Beast
Yeah he is. Even though he’s 6’3, that’s a get off the bus 1st kind of dude.
They’re some nasty SOB’s. To quote Stone Cold Steve Austin, ‘they’ll stop a mud hole in ya and walk it dry.’ 😉
Know we why they scouted them so hard this year too.
Rob, what do you think about Dante Barnett. He is a safety out of Kansas State as a Day 3 option???
Not watched him but I’ll check him out
Is he crazy? Reports like this should give us hope about Reddick:
“Draft Analyst’s Tony Pauline wrote that Temple EDGE/LB Hasson Reddick “has the “it” factor.”
“He was dominant in pass-rushing drills both blitzing as a stand-up linebacker and coming out of a three-point stance,” Pauline wrote of Wednesday’s Senior Bowl practice. “In several instances he beat opponents so badly Reddick got a rise from scouts in attendance. ” Per Pauline, the 6-foot-1, 230-pounder also performed admirably in pass-coverage drills. Reddick — Temple’s all-time leading tackler for loss — could see fifth- or sixth-round interest this spring.
Source: Draft Analyst Jan 26 – 6:19 PM”
5th or 6th round interest? I’ll have whatever he’s having.
Yes he’s crazy. Guys don’t move up and down the boards as much as draft media say they do. They’re the ones that do that, because scouts, GMs, evaluators are never gonna give an honest answer. If if is its vague.
That’s Rotoworld asserting Reddick could go in that range, probably because they’re relying on an outdated draft grade via one of the online sites.
I suspect if asked, Tony would suggest Reddick will go much earlier.
Baltimore at #16 is realistic IMO. If he lasts until #26, he’s a legit option for Seattle.
Especially with Zach Orr’s sudden retirement. Would expect Baltimore to go LB to pair with Mosley.
We’re starting to get a pretty good sense of the ‘special’ prospects in this draft.
Reddick is definitely one of them. Feeney is another. Looking at him and comparing him to previous OL talent — he looks like he should be similar to Zach Martin/Joel Bitonio in terms of quality. Definitely better than any of the OG prospects taken since that 2014 class.
Of all the OL talent, I really only see Feeney as a special player. Honestly, I don’t see any of the OTs in this class being better than Decker was in last years crop. I agree Bolles looks the best — but it doesn’t look like he’s a measurables monster in the same way that Bruce Irvin was.
I’m left wondering if he’s just the best of a very modest class at the top. And that his natural advantage in physical maturity makes him appear better than he is.
The other side of the coin is, the 2nd tier of OT options actually looks really good. That 2nd through 4th round OT prospects look pretty close to what we saw in 2015.
One thing to consider, is that Seattle does look at the draft as a whole. And tries to slot positional picks based on where they find the best value.
I think I’d expect us to go Reddick if available. I’m wondering if Seattle may find themselves in a position to consider Cam Robinson. Seems like he’s the kind of player that could slip down the draft. Not unlike what Decker did between before the Senior Bowl and after the combine.
If I’m sitting there with my pick of OL talent, I think I would make the case to take Feeney and move Ifedi. Admittedly, Pete has said Germain was staying put. However I think the history of Pete here has shown that he moves people around despite declarations to the contrary. I’m sure there are three to four such cases every offseason. But I would have to think that Ifedi could upgrade an OT spot — even marginally. A Feeney selection should be the kind of pick that produced an upgrade at two positions. Which is not something that most prospect selections can provide.
“Davenport continues to compete and hold his own against better competition. I was impressed with the way he squared into defenders and anchored at the point” – Pauline.
“He’s the longest player here this week, he has good feet, but he needs to work on his core strength and power, which are both developmental issues; those can be fixed at the next level” – Mayock.
If Bolles, Ramczyk are gone would Davenport be a target in Rd 2 or 3? He looked ok @ RT shown above.
I think so yes. I’d put Dawkins there as well. Moton is a guy who is marginal. He’s below the 34″ length by a shade.
Also worth remembering, that there is often a wide variance in measurements between all star games and the combine. By as much as a full inch. So we will want to keep an eye on these 33″ OT prospects.
Really looks like a good crop of OTs in R2/3. Pretty similar to 2014 (Marpet, Havenstein, Fisher, Brown and Sambrailo).
“This is a good looking class of linebackers and worth tapping into.” I think this can be said about the secondary class, EDGE class and linebacker class. How exciting is that? We’re virtually guaranteed an impact defender if that’s what we want to get. Pick your position/player based on how the board falls and roll with it, you can’t lose. Obviously Bolles would make them reconsider lol.
BPA. A lot of options to choose from.
I feel like it’s safe to say Reddick is a first round lock as long as he performs as expected at the combine. Somebody will take him, like Bruce it’ll probably be in the top 20. Guys like that don’t declare every year.
I also think we see Bolles in the top 10 by *surprise* Carolina Panthers… ): Rivera knows what he wants and you know he’s going to want Bolles. He doesn’t care what people would say about his age or any of that.
#16 and Baltimore for Reddick looks like an ideal fit.
This happens every year. A guy Rob identifies early as a potential Seahawk blows up and Rob then starts mocking him too early to be a Seahawk. 😀 Sometimes I swear we end up with 35 players that are “top 25.” I think he does it to keep the discussion from focusing on one or two guys. But, I have to admit Rob’s Ryan Shazier comp for Hassan Reddick is looking pretty accurate right now. I think Bolles is gone before 26 so I don’t think our 1st round pick is at the Senior Bowl.
But, look at this way; Reddick moving up makes it more likely that another player like Budda Baker or Sidney Jones or Jabril Peppers is there at 26.
I do like Marquez White as a possibility for a later pick. Maybe he can go through the same hot yoga routine that Kam used to loosen his hips.
I wouldn’t mind a trade up this year if Ramcyzk or other OT fitting our measurements criteria and talent evaluation fall far enough. I wouldn’t mind trading up for Sidney Jones, either. I fantasize about OJ Howard, Mike Williams, and Corey Davis; along with Fournette and Cook, however unlikely. I think this is the year we break some trends in terms of being willing to move up in the draft early on since we have such well-defined needs. However, the DB class’s is so deep perhaps we wait for one of our guys to fall. There are many players yet to be identified as fitting our profile. This time of year is awesome.
I know all the buzz is about Calais Campbell but my top veteran target is Byron Maxwell. He is a guaranteed starter opposite Sherman and you can’t say that about any player that hasn’t played their technique or played in that locker room. He would also eliminate going into the draft with a clear position of need and we know that is Schneider’s m.o.
I would like Maxwell + draft S/CB Melifonwu in round 1. This would shore up 2 thin areas on the team (currently). Would it be overkill, perhaps…. but it would solidify the group for 2-3 years. If Kam were out due to injury, you can reasonably expect Melifonwu could step in for him at SS, since he has a similar physical make-up. Heck, he could possibly pull off the TE coverage as the 3rd LB/S on passing downs. What IS the Seahawks defense known for… secondary play. Do it PC/JS.
We have 25 million. Pay cc 11(like Bennett) and pay Maxwell 5. Plenty left over to resign kam and Jimmy and make other additions
I think this will be a big focus of their off-season and draft. Getting the LOB back to where it was.
Agreed. Also believe it should be a focus. And the quality of this draft (1st, 2nd and 3rd tier guys) all are outstanding.
Would be surprised if one of our top two picks aren’t DBs. And fully expect us to pick two. The way the board seems to be — probably not taking an OL with the first pick. But expect us to take one in day 2.
Going to likely be some really quality players at 26. But I kind of think we want 5 picks in day 2. With possibly some moving down to replace our traded 4th or now missing 5th. The tier two prospects at OL and DB look very good. May have to be a draft that we allow to come to us.
I’m guessing our target list at #26 is pretty short.
Any thoughts about Marlon Humphrey? CBS has him currently mocked to Seattle at 26, though errant lyrics ahead of Sidney Jones.
“26. Seattle Seahawks
Marlon Humphrey , CB, Alabama: The Seahawks prioritize length and physicality over speed at cornerback. Humphrey — the son of former Broncos first-round running back Bobby Humphrey — has all three. The speedy 6-1, 195-pound redshirt sophomore surrendered some big plays (including Washington’s only touchdown in the Peach Bowl), but he plays with the confident, aggressive style Carroll prefers.”
If he has the length Seattle covets, I think they’d be really fortunate to get him at 26.
He’s got a lot of upside. His dad was a good player in the NFL too. Phenomenal athlete.
However, he has the same issue that Shead does. He doesn’t play the ball. We see it all the time, more and more, college corners will freak out and not get their head turned around. He loses position quite often as well.
With that said, all that is correctable with the right coaching and patience. But, Seattle has an immediate need at corner. Plug and play.
I see a lot of people clamoring for Maxi to return. Which isn’t a bad idea. One of his strengths was playing the ball perhaps better than any corner Seattle has had other than Sherm & WT3.
I think he’s too physically fantastic to last until #26.
Yeah, he seems to me to be kind of similar to Irvin/Jones in the 2012 DE class. Really great physical prospect. Who might be at the front of the CB run. I expect the safeties get taken earlier. But there should be a pretty good CB run and Humphery should be in the top couple of names of the run.
I rely liked what I saw of John Johnson from BC. Could be a safety/CB. Rob, did you have a chance to look at him this week?
Possibly something to keep an eye on, Dalvin Cook apparently has some off-field red flags that might see him dropping. Be interesting if he starts falling.
Dalvin Cook a Seahawk would be a major ‘pants off’ moment. I absolutely love his game. Hell, I’d even support a trade up for him, if the range and cost was reasonable.
Old Stuff or New Stuff.
He has a laundry list of flags to be sure.
Robbery & Firearms before college
Criminal mischief
And then the bar fight with the girl.
Honestly I’m surprised That hasn’t affected him more. Look what an extremely similar Misdemeanor has done to Mixon.
It’s pretty much the same thing. Video and all. Young lady provokes and instigates a fight. Player poorly decides to retaliate.. Both turn themselves in. The whole thing is on video. Both first round talents.
Only difference is that Dalvin went through with a trial and was found not guilty, whereas Mixon pled no contest.
Just another example of how picky and choosy and downright hypocritical people can be.
My fanspeak.com mock sim results from this evening:
26: R1P26
OT GARETT BOLLES
UTAH
58: R2P26
EDGE HAASON REDDICK
TEMPLE
90: R3P26
CB RASUL DOUGLAS
WEST VIRGINIA
105: R3P41
RB SAMAJE PERINE
OKLAHOMA
I could totally live with this. #GoHawks
It’s too bad fanspeak doesn’t run the other 31 franchises 🙂 that draft would be godly
That would be the dream draft scenario but no chance Reddick makes till the end of round #2. Love the picks though.
I could way more than live with this. That would probably be the best draft Seattle ever had and may be the best one they will ever have. However, from Feedback and the performance they have shown so far, unfortunately, I don’t think any of those four will be available at those positions and even worse if you take Bolles out and slide everyone up one position, I’m not even sure if those are reasonable. Hard time locking down that fantastic four. But ohhhh I would love it.
I’ll settle for just having a 2nd round pick to use!
It will be nice once we learn more about what is going on with that situation. I mean, Pete messed up talking about the “serious MCL injury”, but he is not a doctor, so his claim might just be hyperbole. This quote from an article yesterday presents a strong point about how “serious” Sherman’s “injury” was/is: “Sherman played 1,054 snaps this season (97.59 percent of the team’s defensive plays) and is participating in the Pro Bowl this week — which seems odd for a player that dealt with what his coach said was a “significant” injury.”
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000779862/article/seahawks-gm-explains-richard-sherman-injury-stance
My mistake, it was posted THIS morning.
Hard to disagree with that comment!!! Fingers crossed. We need every draft pick we can get.