This week Kenneth and I talk about Russell Okung, yesterday’s seven-round Seahawks mock and we take some Twitter questions. Check it out…
Also today — the Seahawks were heavily involved in Connor McGovern’s pro-day workout at Missouri:
The #Colts & #Seahawks are putting Evan Boehm & Connor McGovern through O-Line drills pic.twitter.com/fxvW1pDRIV
— Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) March 23, 2016
#Mizzou OG Connor McGovern now talking with scouts from the Seahawks.
— Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) March 23, 2016
This isn’t a big surprise. If there are two players that might be ‘can’t leave the draft without’ types for the Seahawks — it could be McGovern and Tyler Ervin.
Three teams brought assistant coaches who put offensive linemen Boehm and McGovern through a lengthy series of position drills: Patriots OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Colts assistant OL coach Joe Gilbert, Seahawks assistant OL coach Brennan Carroll and Bengals offensive quality control coach Robert Couch. The Seahawks and Chiefs were among a few teams that had multiple representatives on hand.
Here’s another video featuring Tyler Ervin I noticed last night:
Meanwhile John Schneider had an interesting quote at the owners meeting regarding Seattle’s O-line:
“Besides three or four offensive lines throughout the league, it’s a concern for everybody. So you are constantly working at it. There is a reason we are converting defensive linemen to offensive linemen. There is really a shortage of talent at this point in the league.”
It’s further evidence they’ll once again be looking for major upside with their offensive line picks. There’s a real shortage of unique athletes playing O-line in college. This is why it’s easy to assume the likes of McGovern, Germain Ifedi and Le’Raven Clark could be on their radar. It’s also why they might look to convert Michigan State’s Joel Heath to the offense.
Finally, this Tweet is worth noting:
Ogbah struggles redirect so you've gotta value end holds point to like Emmanuel. Hawks covet a Michael Bennett type https://t.co/3cND5TDJAg
— NFL_DRAFT_Bites (@NFLDraftBites) March 23, 2016
This isn’t the first time someone has mentioned that the Seahawks want to add another Michael Bennett type to their roster. Not to replace Bennett, mind, but someone who can play end and still move inside for the key downs.
Rather than a pure edge or interior run stuffer — a DE that can move inside appears to be their main desire on the D-line.
Starting to get the feeling that McGovern and Ervin are potentially this year’s Clark and Lockett.
2 guys we’ve identified early that just have Seahawks written all over them.
Could be. Maybe they trade down from 26 to take McGovern in mid R2 + an extra R3 pick rather than roll with an OT at 26.
So the assumption is if we trade down from 26 out of the 1st round, we’d get a mid R2 pick and an extra R3 pick?
Hmmmm…I am assuming that Le’Raven Clark would be gone by the time our pick (let’s say somewhere in the 40’s overall area) comes up? Assuming the FO isn’t dying to get Bullard on the team and likes a DE/DT type in R3, and assuming Clark is still available by the time we pick in R2 (40’s area), then I’d love a trade down.
But a trade down that has us losing Bullard, Ifedi and Clark? :/ that sounds rough. The extra player we could get in the 3rd would be nice but is missing out on Bullard, Ifedi/Clark worth it?
I THINK I am more in favor of picking where we are. Grabbing either Bullard or Ifedi at 26, in R2 grabbing McGovern, in R3 grabbing Ervin and whatever position we didn’t grab in R1 (DL or OL).
Of course it takes a willing trade partner, but points-wise trading 26 to OAK for 44 + 75 makes sense.
They could also package 56 with 90 and move up to around 42.
They could do both – trade 26 to OAK for 44 + 75 and trade 56 + 90 to MIA for 42.
That would leave them with 42, 44, 75 and 97 in the first 3 rounds.
They might be able to get Coleman AND McGovern with the first 2 picks, then BPA defense at 75 and Ervin at 97.
What makes you think McGovern will be at 56 this year. Mitch Morse was projected last year about where McGovern is now. Yet he went at pick 49. Seattle has reached before to get there guy and its pretty apparent they are interested in him. They may just take him at 26 if they can’t get a trade. I don’t think they will get to cute in trading down to far but that extra pick could help move back up to get someone they want and you can trade comp picks.
Can’t trade comp picks. ACK
Wouldn’t surprise me.
Shortage of LTs? Yes. Shortage of guys that can play RT? Not really.
RT and LG.
What is the difference between RT and LT really, when you really think about it? RTs have to face JJ Watt and Von Miller and Michael Bennett too …
Pauline:
“At Illinois State, RB/WR Marshaun Coprich did a lot of wideout work, running routes with the receivers and catching everything thrown in his direction. He posted a 38-inch vertical jump, and improvement of four inches from the Combine.
Coprich interviewed with the Indianapolis Colts and Chicago Bears. I’m told the Colts are very high on his skill set.”
I thought it was somewhat telling that Seattle was at Asuza Pacific’s and Pitt St’s pro days, and the 2 guys that stole the show and were reportedly who scouts had the most interest in, 2 COP RB’s that killed their workouts.
Asuza Pacific RB Josh Atkinson and Pitt St RB Jamal Tyler.
I think we mentioned Atkinson at least once or twice during the season, didn’t we?
There seems to be a change in attitudes around the League regarding these “smaller” OW/COP RBs. Could be a “thing” in the making.
We might have.
I suspect your onto something with the COP guys. Versatility is a must have nowadays. And with premier athletes leaning towards and playing on the defensive side of the ball, you’ve gotta combat that some way.
Also, guys like Lynch, AP, and Gurley are a dying breed. Not many 3 down backs.
Josh Atkinson’s actually a cornerback. His brother George is a running back for the Raiders right now.
Thanks for the clarification.
I read DB as RB.
No worries. Reading the name “Atkinson” made me think of his brother in the first place, who also played at Notre Dame, so it was pretty easy to make the mistake.
About Josh, he’s an athlete… and that might be all he is. He was a track star at Notre Dame, but hardly got any playing time on the football field. He did pick off three passes at Azusa Pacific, along with having 36 tackles.
PC also mentioned that they are happy with Glow and Britt at Guard. This with them looking at McGovern so much, would it be all that much of a surprise for them to go DL (Bullard) in round 1 and McGovern round 2. I think it would upset some fans not getting anyone that is slotted for the OT position. But PC said they are even looking at Poole at RT. Is this simply pumping up guys as a smoke screen? Maybe not, as he doesn’t mention Lewis at C at all. I don’t think it should be a surprise if they don’t take the potential OT player that everyone has pegged.
I think it is part smoke screen -but partly true as well.
I’m don’t think the FO conciders OL to be as much of a need as we seem to think it is. I think it’ll wind up being one guy on days 1/2 and one or two on day three. Something like 2014 with a guy in the second and a guy in the sixth.
PCJS might be fine with a GIlliam – Britt- Lewis – Glow – Webb OL with Sokolji, Poole and mid-late rounders serving as competition.
I think how much OL we draft depends on the way the board falls. I certainty think we aren’t going to go against the board and force OL early.
i.e. I don’t think we are in a position where we have to take a day three guy in the second round due to team need, like Britt.
You can take this to the bank. One of Seattle’s first two picks will be an offensive lineman. Two of the Hawks first four picks will be offensive lineman.
I think we will go where the board takes us. Reaching for an OL due to need isn’t really a Seahawk thing.
Except it is a seahawks thing. See carp and britt
Britt yeah – and they acknowledged it was a mistake. That they had him as a fourth rounder but they took him earlier because of need.
Carp was just an example of them liking a guy more than consensus. They had him as a first round talent.
It wouldn’t be a surprise — but I wouldn’t read much into praise of Britt and Glow. They’ll be needed for the competition in camp. You’re not going to say today, “Sure — we’ll just replace those guys”.
I would – say it, I mean.
A lot of us would, but we don’t have to look these guys in the face during camp.
Oh, I would still say 2 of the first four picks will be OL, but I don’t think they are married to OL at 26 if they don’t feel an OT is essential. Also don’t really think Sowell makes the team unless he is fire. If he does it takes away a comp pick. He would have to be worth a 5th, and I don’t think that is the case.
I agree there. Not married to OL at #26 — but that would be my bet at this stage.
Given the difficulty we have seen with even first-round offensive lineman contribute in their first year (particularly tackles), I wonder if the Hawks don’t view any draft pick there as long-term. I am coming to think (hope) that Carpenter and Britt are exceptions that have helped form that position. It is telling, I think, that DL-convert Sweezy is the most successful rookie lineman since Okung. If that’s right, the offensive line will undoubtedly be a drafting priority, but not necessarily for purposes of getting a starter. If a talent falls to them in the first, they’ll happily draft him, but even a first rounder may redshirt (as Arizona did DJ Humhphries and Cleveland with Cam Erving). As J suggests, I want to believe that JSPC has learned its lesson. I wonder as well if Seattle hasn’t decided that journeyman vets can be more effective than uber-talented but inexperienced lineman. Ted Larsen started over Johnathan Cooper last year, for example. Offensive line seems to be a dark art, which may bolster Cable’s views as to how to proceed. (Ironically, center seems to be the slot where rookies have the best success in transitioning from college to the pros, so I’m even less clear why Seattle is focused on growing their own there, rather than living with a less-athletic, cerebral mid-rounder. For that reason, I’m hoping that the interest in Boehm is real.
As Danny O’Neill pointed out yesterday…teams only suit up seven OL for any given game..I suspect PC/JS feel they have six of them already on the roster.
So in other words they will only draft an OL early if they feel he will become one of their top 5 linemen week 1.
SIGN ME UP! lol
Listening to the podcast, I have 1 question. If the Hawks are afraid of losing out on McGovern in the second -including possibly moving up in the second-would they take McGovern at 26??
I think it’s unlikely. You’ve got to have a range for these guys.
Really interesting article Rob. Lots to think about. I love that they love athleticism but I really hope they value things that haven’t seemed to value as much in past. That being the skill and technique of the position. Watching Britt get beat 85% of the team, watching Sweezy get beat in pass pro 75% of the time, watching Carp get beat…I just want them to look at what they did with Glowinski and focus on that. In the 4th round it appears they got a really good O-linemen who is a good athlete, a mauler, a brawler, and yet he is good (consistent) in pass pro.
I feel like McGovern would be that way, that Dahl would be that way, that Ifedi could be that way…from what I remember Clark is more of a mess in terms of technique but is the physical prototype at his position?
I am thinking we probably won’t grab three O-linemen in the first 4 picks. The difficult part is where do we not go OL and instead go DL? Do we pass on OT at 26 and instead get Bullard? Do we pass on McGovern and get a DE/DT there? Or do we get Ifedi and McGovern then go DL in the 3rd? Use our 3rd round picks to grab a DE/DT and RB (Ervin?).
Will be fascinating to watch go down. What I love about this draft is not only does it have huge long term ramifications for our team, but there area quality impact players at almost every pick, and multiple picks (OL, DL, RB) would most likely be on the field their rookie year week 1 and beyond.
Nathan: Well said.
If they feel they have their starters at the tackle spots, maybe they wait until round 2 to see if their center is there. The center would also have to be able to kick out to guard in the case that Patrick Lewis gets the spot in camp. I just feel so shaky about Britt.
I’m glad that Tyler Ervin is getting some love. I noticed him midway through the 2015 season and thought he comped well to Percy Harvin and Tyler Lockett. Concerns about his thin frame and weight are overblown–yeah, he weighed in at 177 last August or whenever, but he was up to 192 at the combine. He’s only 22, so he can add a bit more bulk, but should he? Maybe he’s already the ideal size to maintain his level of explosiveness.
If we think of Ervin as a multi-threat Harvin-type player (with a much better attitude than Harvin, it would seem) who can also handle the bulk of RB duties if need be, then damn–that’s a helluva player to have on your team. I agree that taking him in the 3rd isn’t too early, because even if just one other team values him a few rounds above where most have him placed, he won’t last.
So not only could Ervin be a major weapon as a speedy, elusive, pass-catching tailback, he could make a great slot receiver, and be option 1b on punt and/or kick returns.
I could see Ervin as a receiver. As a runner he does not seem to do what the seahawks want a runner to do, he avoids contact and takes off instead of wear the defense down physically.
taking off is great in college, not so likely to happen in the pros.
I may be one of few Seahawk fans to say this, and it’s completely unlike past seasons. I would be completely fine with drafting Ifedi and McGovern. I’d almost prefer it. We don’t have any needs at WR and it would be pretty tough to get a rookie involved. We’ve went defense the past few years. I really like the idea of drafting defense in one of the first 2 rounds but this year just seems unnecessary, more so than past year. It’s a loaded DL class and that gives us a chance in the 3rd or 4th. LB seems like a position we can help in FA. I think it was PC or JS, but they said replacing Irvin would more likely be a group effort. To me, that sounds like a LB or a version of that would probably be off the table in the first two rounds. Unless there was a player we absolutely love. HB is a position we can add to, but since we kept CMike that seems more likely around the 4th or 5th. 3rd at the earliest since we have two. This is the perfect chance to fix what had hurt us last year and has been our achilles heel the past few years. It’s not like we are reaching for players. I feel this is an opportunity to keep the ball rolling. Then next year we can go back to developing lineman. We would be ahead of where we were when we won the SB in terms of depth and being able to replace guys in FA without a massive drop off. Gilliam, Glowinski, Ifedi, and McGovern would be young enough to allow us to try a Sweezy type of move again. Or to bring in another guy like Sokoli. For the first time since PC got here, I want us to go heavy on the OL early if the players are there. Use our first two picks on a OL and draft a C later. I want DEPTH, and a lot of it. This isn’t because of how we played this past season, but because of how much of the OL we’ve had to replace the past few years. As much crap as we get for our OL players like Giacomini, Okung, Sweezy, Alvin Bailey, Carpenter, Unger, and even Moffit have been wanted by other teams. Most of them even got a very solid payday.
Seahawks509: True: It is a draft loaded with players on the defensive line. But it is not that deep with pass rushing defensive lineman.
We do have Bennett, Marsh, Clark, Avril, and even Hill. Im not sure a pass rusher is quite as big of a need as some make it sound. Sure was have the luxury to go that route and it probably won’t hurt us if we don’t take 2 OL early. This year just feels like one of those years where we can change it up without much consequence. It’s not like we are desperately looking for someone. If we draft someone it’s almost not even for depth. It would be like a red shirt year. Cause I know Clark and Marsh are ready to take that step forward. What we really need is someone to replace Mebane. Or Rubin, however you want to go about it. Yes I agree that we need to improve our interior pass rush. It was not on the same level this year that it was the years we went to the SB. Im counting on Clark and Marsh to be the difference there. And hopefully Hill.
Hill is injury prone, and on the last year of his contract. Seattle tries to backfill rather than wait to plug a hole until they lose a guy. Thats a big reason I think one of Seattle’s first two picks, and likely two of the first four, will be D-line.
To say nothing of Marsh doing very little on D-line, though he has become an excellent Special Teams player.
Seattle has been trying to find a DT with pass rush for years–they had their hearts broken by the Pats taking Easley, and screwed up and cut Jay Howard, and for whatever reason cut TY McGill despite his pass rush ability…They wont take a year off from trying to find it. And you dont often find DT’s with pass rush after the third round, especially not in a draft like this one is considered–light on DT’s with pass rush ability, heavy on run-stuffing DT’s. Plus, we filled the run-stuffing need–or at least moderated it–by signing Rubin, Siliga, Hamilton, etc. But the need for a pass rushing DT is still strong–they dont really have one.
“We do have Bennett, Marsh, Clark, Avril, and even Hill”
Not enough. Hill is injury-prone and hasn’t stepped up. Marsh, same. Bennett, who knows how his contract situation is going to unfold. Clark, year two, and he is a certain kind of pass rusher. He has dropped some weight, we’re not sure what he is going to be.
Bottom line, the pass rush—especially interior—needs to be boosted back to 2012-2013 levels.
There seems to be a large pocket of talent in rounds 2-3. I wouldn’t mind (if possible) trading back from the 1st rd to get the likes of Kelly,Mcgovern,Ervin,Bullard etc. Wish we had 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. I’m liking Ervin a lot. Hope he lasts until our 3rd. Everyone uses Steve Hutcheson as a guard measuring stick so my question, is there anyone in this draft close to or equal to him?
I agree. I wouldnt mind seeing Seattle repeat their usual Draft Day Trade Down, as long as they arent giving their pick up for peanuts, or passing on some really good talent.
It would be awesome to end up with two second round picks–as long as they can get one higher than 50–plus a couple thirds, if they can swing a 2/3 for their First rounder. They could end up with a pass rushing DT prospect or DE, a couple O-line picks, and Ervin int he first three rounds, potentially. That would make me pretty happy.
Leaving LB and DB and any developmental projects (DT to OL etc) for the later rounds. Sounds good to me.
“Ogbah struggles redirect so you’ve gotta value end holds point to like Emmanuel”
Could someone translate this for me. I have no idea what it is supposed to say.
You have to value an end who stands his ground and is tough to move – i.e. holds his point. You see this phrase used to describe run-stuffing DTs like Mebane.
i.e., the evaluator doesn’t think Ogbah is going to be much of a pass-rusher or have much in the way of pass-rush moves/agility.
Funny as hell Al. Sounds like someone needs hooked on phonics. I didn’t understand it either.
Ha-ha, wow I get it now, thanks. I guess it should have read something like this:
“Ogbah struggles [to] redirect so you’ve gotta value [an] end [who] holds point to like Emmanuel”
Yeah, I didn’t get it either. Still not sure I get it..
Ha. Tweet as riddle.
Rob really enjoyed the podcast as usual great job.
You have me sold on Ervin. His agent needs you to bring you on board! I had him in the 5th but now pray he is there when we pick in the 3rd.
Rob you mention in the blog about the Hawks looking for a DE who can move inside on 3rd down like Bennett. If we don’t take Bullard early what are your thoughts on Ronald Blair for that type of role and what rage do you see him going in? Are there any small school or mid rounds guys to consider for that role?
Blair is a good shout.
I’m not saying he’s Michael Bennett, but Justin Zimmer played, and made an impact, from every position on the DL. Granted it was against lesser comp, but he dominated.
I wonder if Kevin Dodd isn’t on our list as well. He might be someone we could trade up for in the 2nd if we go with Ifedi in round 1. I have a gut feeling Bullard might be gone by #26.
I like lawson,,constantly took on the left tackle of SEC offices
Funny that we’re still looking for that outside/inside guy. When Marsh was drafted they talked about him in that role then he slimmed down to more LEO and now moving even to SAM. Clark also received positive reviews for his work inside last year so I figured he would be that guy moving forward … now he’s working down to (presumably) more of a LEO/outside rusher. Close but no cigar I guess and the search continues.
Are they still trying to replace Red Bryant’s ability to hold the edge against the run? Bullard or others discussed aren’t as big as Red…
They want someone who can play a high % of snaps and not come off the field on either early or third down. A complete pass rusher essentially.
Are we talking about getting back to a guy like Lawrence Jackson? He did play end for Carroll at USC
No more athletic than that.
Bullard – Mcgovern – Ervin – Glasgow seems very likely at this point, stitching the clues together.
Bullard is a similar player to Bennet, end who can kick inside to tackle. Great character.
Mcgovern is garnering lots of interest from Seattle. Could play right tackle. Cable loves Mizzou linemen. We might have to accept that the from office has plans to stick with britt as a starter.
Ervin had interest from Bevell and athletically is extremely similar to percy Harvin. Fills a need (third down pass catching back), great character and production, all things the seahawks value. Just all around makes sense.
Glasgow seems to fit the seahawks preferred measurables for center, and seems to have a ‘seahawky’ attitide.
Looks like SEA worked out McGovern at C in the video. Also maybe I’m relying too much on Rob, but the buzz linking McGovern to SEA seems to be as a C.
That’s one of the best things about McGovern, aside from Herculean strength. He has OT experience, and sufficient athleticism to play multiple positions.
I don’t think your relying on him too much.
Him and Joe Dahl fit what Seattle seems to really like and want at C. OT’s. Not a coincidence that they worked both of them out at C at their pro days.
Also meeting with Evan Boehm tommorow.
Really like Boehm but I wonder if arm length is an issue.
That would be a pretty awesome first 4 picks if you decide to pass on Ifedi and Coleman in Rd #1. To do that you have to feel comfortable with Webb and Gilliam at OT.
Rob where Rankins in pretty much a perfect 3 Tech in a 4-3 defense do you think that limits who he will appeal to and perhaps put him in play at #26?
I see the Jags, Falacons, Saints, Det as the 4 most likely to take him but all have bigger needs in theory than DT.
He played a lot of end in college. I think the latest he falls is #17 and he’s likely a top-15 pick.
Agreed
Pete Carroll insists that the Offensive spree that we were on during the second half of last season was because we got better at doing what we needed to. We made the right adjustments to the other team’s gameplan.
And that points squarely at Russell Wilson. Teams were waiting on the read option, holding outside rushers at the Line of Scrimmage until the middle of the line broke down. Then RW no longer had the same scrambling options, and was often forced into tacklers arms.
What changed was RW started throwing his passes quicker, no longer seeking to extend plays. He got better at recognizing what the Defenses were doing.
With the exception of Lewis for Nowak (and occasionally Bailey for Okung), these were the same O-Line guys,before and after. Arguably, playing together made the Unit better, but will anyone say that was enough to create the Juggernaut our offense became?
No, the difference is Russell Wilson. And he is different enough that he creates an entirely new paradigm for an O-Line.
The Seahawks can look for a different set of Skills from their O-Linemen. They value things others don’t, so they can seek Players that other teams don’t. Those guys are available Late.
Use the first four picks to obtain the most dynamic Defensive difference-makers( Ogbah,Bullard,Nkemdiche,etc.), then go get some Cable Projects.
The first FOUR picks on the defense???
How do you plan to get these guys on the field??
I think we probably only come away with three players out of the four picks (likely needing a trade to get someone special).
The suspect roster spots are Hill, Marsh, Dobbs, Sealver, etc.
Bennett, Avril, Clark, and Rubin will get lots of plays but we’ve always rotated the D-Line situationally as well as for injuries or exhaustion.
And the mere presence of these quality players would enhance the Team’s chemistry
I think we can say with 100% certainty they will not use their first four picks on defense.
Would love a compilation of what we are certain about with the Seahawks!
Not claiming to have all the answers, but come on. First four picks on defense? We know better than that.
Rob, I’m honestly not trying to flog a dead horse here.
I really believe that the Seahawks have decided that if Russell Wilson is on his game, they could play with a set of 55 gallon oil drums as O-Lineman.
While the rest of the NFL World assumes that the only way to make a D-lineman miss a Quarterback is to block him, Pete & John see a Houdini, using guile and superior physical skills.
Why not take advantage of the fact that you just don’t need what everybody else does, and get the Playmakers you need to dominate on Defense?
So when they spent a second round pick on the OL in 2014 — they hadn’t yet realised this plan to just use a bunch of JAGS on the OL because Wilson didn’t need help?
It’s not as simple as that man.
You can take it to the bank that one of their first two picks is going to be an OL.
We are talking about the Legion of Boom here. They will keep that intact. It’s all about winning in the trenches. Don’t discount Front seven difference makers early. And above all, look for a blocking TE with one of the first 4 picks.
They won’t take a blocking TE in the first four picks. If for no reason other than one doesn’t exist that warrants the pick.
2015 we went D (Clark) in 2nd, O (Lockett) in 3rd. O in 1st if you count Graham.
2014 we went O (Richardson) in 2nd, O (Britt) in 2nd, D in 4th Marsh
2013 we went O (CMike) in 2nd, D (Hill) in 3rd, O in first if you count Harvin.
2012, Everyone knows is Irvin, Wagner, RW.
2011, we went O (Carpenter) in 1st, O in 2nd (Moffitt).
Seahawks seem to tend to go O early, then get D athletes later on in the draft.
I agree Mr Defense. Another way to look at it is of the seven OL who were typically “game active’ last year…we lost three (Okung, Sweezy, Bailey). You’ve got to figure two of those spots will go to Webb and Glow…so you’ve already got a pretty good battle for that last spot (Sokoli, Poole, Sowell, Nowak, etc). Doesn’t make a lot of sense to blow a lot of high round draft capital given you realistically have one spot open. DL on the other hand could use two or three new guys…linebacker, RB maybe another receiver (Baldwin insurance) all would fall higher on my needs hierarchy.
fd: i didn’t see a need to prioritize a WR/KR in last years draft either….so shows you what I know.
I really don’t understand this thinking.
The Seahawks need quality on their O-line — it’s not a numbers game in March. That level of competition just isn’t enough. It’d basically mean the biggest challengers in camp to the starters would be Sowell, Nowak and Poole. I can’t believe anyone really thinks the Seahawks are going to be happy with that.
There’s no real need to overthink this. They’re going to add at least a couple of O-liners in rounds 1-3 with their four picks. They’re going to encourage a vibrant competition. And they’ll move forward.
I just think you guys are underestimating how difficult the jump from college to pro ball is (all positions..but OL in particular). My guess is they add another veteran FA or two before camp….a couple of mid/late round draft picks (primarily for the practice squad)…that should be fine imo.
What’s perceived as not a need today, could be a need tommorow.
Especially if they trade Bennett.
Bennett isn’t going anywhere
Not underestimating anything Mike — I know it’s tough. But the Seahawks started a 7th round rookie DL-to-OL convert in 2012 in the first game of the season. They are not afraid. They’ve also started, for what it’s worth, multiple rookie OL over the years.
No reason to think they won’t do it again.
For sure true. And I don’t think Seattle is afraid to do it, but they may also have learned from the experience that it is even harder than they thought. I’m fascinated watching because I feel like their views on OL development are most open to change of any position. For example, as you’ve noted many times, Rob, they may well have come to value tackles, relative to interior, less highly than five years ago. And left tackle may no longer be the second-most important offensive position, in their minds.
I also think they want the athletic upside of a college left or right tackle at guard.
Which is why, IMO, they will look closely at guys like Ifedi and McGovern that can kick inside (and compete to play in multiple positions).
Greater competition on the OL is vital in camp this year. It wasn’t competitive enough 12 months ago.
Well put, although I don’t rule out a higher draft pick on OL, if there is a guy they like.
Also, what happens if Sowell. Soko, Poole, etc don’t develop and really struggle in TC and the pre-season?
Then they’re right back to where they were last year. Scrambling to put together an O-line in August with 2-3 weeks left before the regular season starts.
It’s okay to draft for future needs too.
well..I’m pretty sure they know what they have (or don’t have) already in Poole, Sokoli, Nowak, etc . I’m guessing we would have been more aggressive in FA (or resigning our guys) if they didn’t believe at least one of those guys could be OL #7 on the roster this year.
Again — you’re focusing too much on the number. They’re going to have a big competition in camp this year. They are going to bring in better talent including at least two rookies. They aren’t just going to fill a quota.
This team doesn’t build in FA. I’m not sure why anyone expected them to.
so you guys really think the plan for the OL is to hit on a couple of the rookie OL’s this year?? that doesn’t sound realistic…
I think they will draft two offensive lineman in their first four picks, open up a nice competition during camp and let em rip.
If that sounds unrealistic, I don’t know what else to say to you Mike.
that’s a huge investment of draft capital for a team that has quite a few needs elsewhere (DL x 3, LB, Safety, WR, RB)…but we’ll see what happens.
No need is greater than the OL right now.
PC and JS admitted it was the priority at the end of the season.
You don’t spend a first or even second round pick on competition. Historically our high rounders have been guys who would get major playing time immediately. Clark/Lockett, Richardson/Britt, Michael, Irvin/Wagner all had a clear role from the get go. Only way we go first round OL is if there is a clear upgrade.
Which makes me think it’ll be like 2014, a day one/two guy to replace Britt (either at RT or LG) and a day three center to compete with Soko and Lewis.
I didn’t say they would spend high picks on ‘competition’. I said they would draft two guys and open up a competition. In some cases it will be two starters competing to decide who starts at LG and RT.
Seattle makes everyone compete anyway. You’re dwelling too much on semantics.
I agree. Compete or not. They’ll get bodies there and sort it out.
You are saying they will spend two of the first four picks on competition but they won’t be high draft picks?
I’m saying they will add two OL picks between rounds 1-3 (they have four in total in that span) and those players will be competing to start immediately.
And yes, Seattle makes guys compete. But usually with their high rounders itsthey are the clear favorite. Its a competition in name only.
Nobody is arguing to the contrary that these guys would be favorites.
There’d still be a competition.
How is that not spending to early picks on competition?
So they will draft two guys to compete to start but it won’t be a competition?
You just argued to the contrary. A couple posts above.
No I didn’t.
I said players would come in and compete.
You’re focusing too much on an idea I’ve never proposed — that these guys might not start. Of course they would be favorites. They’d still be competing though — not handed the jobs.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
I don’t even know what you’re disagreeing with.
Seems a pretty redundant argument to be honest.
Ok.
How is it a competition if they are guaranteef a starting job? Are they competing over who gets to sit next to Wilson on the team plane? Who can get the most women? Who can burp more of tje alphabet?
Sorry for the snark but I’m not getting this at all
It’s not difficult.
They’ll likely draft two O-liners early.
They will compete to start with the existing guys on the roster.
They will be favored to start.
Doesn’t mean they’ll be handed the jobs.
Its simple.
If there is a significant chance the guy won’t start its a waste of a pick in the first or second. A defensive player could not start and still rotate in. Not so at OL.
If there is not a significant chance the guy won’t start its not a competition. Its a competition in name only. And its not something a reasonable person would think of when hearing the term “competition”. Otherwise every roster spot becomes a competiton.
“If there is a significant chance the guy won’t start its a waste of a pick in the first or second.”
Oh good grief J.
Nobody is saying there’s a significant chance they won’t start. You are arguing semantics based on how ‘serious’ the competition will be.
I’m disagreeing that they will draft guys on days one or two where there is a real possibility they won’t start. Which is what you said. Unless I’m misunderstanding the word competition and you meant it in some other way.
Did you mean they would draft two OL and open up an unrelated competition at another position?
I’m not sure why you’re struggling to get to grips with this.
I’ll say what I said in my earlier reply:
They’ll likely draft two O-liners early.
They will compete to start with the existing guys on the roster.
They will be favored to start.
Doesn’t mean they’ll be handed the jobs.
They brought in 2nd tier OL FAs; they have a couple of 2nd tier OLers already on roster (Lewis and Britt). They’ll draft the best OL prospects they can. They’ll put everyone together and the best players win.
The presumption is that the draft prospects will be better than the 2nd tier OLers such that the draft prospects will win the start. But it’s really irrelevant if they don’t and the vets win. Either way, SEA will have fielded the best players along the OL as determined by competition.
And if the vets win the start over the rookies, that doesn’t mean SEA “wasted” any pick they spent on an OLer in the draft because that pick helped them get to the best OL possible.
In 2012, they signed Matt Flynn to a big contract. Then they drafted RW. They let the 2 compete and went with the winner. Did they “waste” the money on Flynn? Not at all. What if RW needed a year to mature. Or what if he didn’t work out at all? Conversely, did they “waste” a pick on RW when they had Flynn on the roster?
“id like to dispell with this notion, (John Schnieder) doesn’t know what he’s doing, he knows exactly what he’s doing” -Marco Rubio
What is it with people this week.
Everybody forget Pete and John love bringing in guys to compete and never “hand” guys a starting job. That’s what “drafting guys to come in and compete” means.
People are acting like we don’t draft that WA and we ONLY draft sure fire prospects early.
Christine Micheal didnt play a whom lot until his 3rd year.
Frank Clark was used sparingly last year, compared to how I would’ve used him.
No E wasn’t expected to have the impact at WR he did, according to PC, he was drafted in hopes of being a Dante Hall/Devin Hester return specialist it sounds like.
The FO has proven they will draft guys who they believe can improve the roster, and thier playing time will depend on their ability and how quick they can adjust to the pro game.
I dont understand the big fuss here
Or are they confident in the fact that they’re not afraid to play and rely on rookies on the O-line?
They aren’t just handing a guy a job without some competition.
JS said ‘IF’ the season started today, these wold be our guys. Seaon don’t start in March.
You dress 7 and carry 9 or 10.
I think the Hawks look at rookie OL’s like they do rookie CB’s.. that they need to be completely retrained from how they did things in college…so the formula is draft unique athletes (small school usually) in the low rounds an develop them.
Number of CB’s Seattle has drafted in rounds 1-3: Zero
Number of OL’s Seattle has drafted in rounds 1-3: Four
Three of those four were in rounds one and two.
Okung, Carpenter, Moffitt, Britt?? I rest my case…
Eh?
You made the point they treat OL like CB. That’s clearly not the case. They’ve taken four OL’s very early since 2010 and zero CB’s.
Doesn’t matter who the players are. Clearly they are prepared to draft one position early — and the other they are not.
They did take a safety in the 1st.
It’s a different position.
Rob I dont know why these guys are messing with you. They are talking complete craziness.
Anyone who watched the Seahawks play all 22 games last year and has viewed the off season moves this year, and is familiar with this organization’s tendencies could come to the conclusion, we will be drafting 2 OL early.
I understand they could have been kicking around an idea or whatever, and can appreciate the original thinking. BUT to float it out as probable we’ll ignore the Oline and rely on Russell “surviving” instead of thriving, is just so dang wrong.
Rob, he was using “OL” to mean “offensive limenan”, and you were using it to mean “outside linebacker”.
Confusion!
Wait, I was confoozled. Never mind.
Damned acronyms….
But the assumption for tge blog lately has been the amazing lunging hercules from TAMU would be a sure fire upgrade. His soft tape and grabby hands show me that we would be better off rolling the dice on the guys we have
I think there is a lot of hyperbole in this particular thread but the idea that Ifedi would be any closer to be a quality starter over any of the guys we already have is a huge stretch at best. Lunges too much, grabs too much- mark my words
I think this is right. But it isn’t limited to Ifedi. Other than Tunsil and, perhaps, Conklin, I wouldn’t count on any rookie tackle to be an upgrade. Perhaps inside that could work, but that’s no sure thing either. But as Rob points out, Seattle isn’t counting on it to happen. But the odds likely tip in our favor, if we try by getting a physical monster.
I just think that Coleman’s particukar skill set would be so much more of a sure thing for what we will ask of a 1st rd OL selection. To win at the point of attack with aggression. To be a tone setter. Most likely at LG or RT. But to have a tone setter like Breno will be huge. ‘Muscle’ or ‘Roughneck’ are two words that come to mind
The Seahawks need quality on their O-line
How does that figure, Rob? I’ll admit that virtually every other football mind would agree with you, but how is that what Pete & John are thinking?
Offensive Lines have been set up for most of the history of the NFL to protect a static, non moving quarterback. We don’t have one! The paradigm for deciding who a good lineman is for us is different than for 31 other teams.
They stated the O-line was their biggest priority at the end of the season.
I don’t think I have to explain why they’re going to spend early picks on the OL.
Even if they only spend one early pick on the OL — they still aren’t going DEF-DEF-DEF-DEF with their first four picks.
They stated improved continuity/cohesion for the offensive line was their priority. That doesn’t necessarily require adding rookies. If you look historically, the Seahawks tend to draft 2 offensive linemen every season. More often than not, one of those is drafted in the first 4 rounds. They have never drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first 4 rounds in the same year.
So, Bullard at 26, McGovern at 56, Ervin or an OW in round 3, and…
That still leaves another 3rd and 4th for us to consider. I liked your mock of a big WR in the 4th. Is Feeney or Jaylon Smith in play if they pass the physical?
Steve, how long have you been following the Seahawks? 3 years?
“They have never drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first 4 rounds in the same year”
Are you familiar with them Drafting Carp And Moffit,with the first two picks, in 2011?
And didn’t they just do that last year too?
1st four picks. Clark, Lockett, Poole, Glow.
My bad. I’ve been a Seahawks fan since 1977. I was thinking of PCJS history, not all-time history, but I was wrong either way. I remembered Carp and Moffitt incorrectly. I should have looked it up before posting.
Sorry for the snark. Way to own it though, respect.
I agree. They will add at least two linemen. While I have the utmost faith that whatever they do, Glowinsky is going to win a starting G spot–my bet is RG, as he’s not Cable’s favored Mauler body type for LG–I havent seen or heard anything good about Terry Poole, and Sokoli is still a project and in all likelihood not even close to being ready for Primetime.
Whether Cable likes Britt or not, he wasnt good enough to preclude bringing in competition. And while Im glad they picked up Webb, neither him nor Sowell are guys whose performance in the past would lead anyone to count on them to win and keep a starting job. They cannot be counted on to be anything but depth/competition.
They’ve made it plain they dont think Lewis has a high ceiling, and Nowak never rose above the Practice Squad after being demoted. Cable has little use for Jean-Pierre even though he’s always outplayed Nowak…
They surely arent going to admit they are taking two linemen high in the Draft, but its a good bet they are. And I cant see any way one of their first two picks isnt an O-lineman. Having bodies isnt the same as having quality, and quality-wise, Seattle’s roster is pretty skimpy right now.
I agree with everything you said about how Wilson’s improvement helped the OL look better, but there’s no question the OL needs to get better. And the draft talent this year might be much better than next, so now is the time to do it.
If we “hit” on the first defensive player we select I think we will be golden on that side of the ball next year. There’s a good chance we will be even if we don’t nail the pick.
2 of the top 4 picks will hopefully be spent on the OL.
Many are going to disagree with you. I wouldn’t mind four defensive picks. It would be a statement.
We put up 24 points on Carolina, the final score was 31-24. Pete Carroll’s Seahawks teams aren’t good at winning high scoring games. The offense improving might not be as important as the defense improving. Look who win super bowl 50… The Broncos had an awful offense. The defense regressed each season since the pinnacle 2013 season…
Our offense is 2015 was better than the offense in 2013… By a lot.
The defense in 2013 was better than than the defense in 2015… By a lot
Which year did we win the super bowl in?
Omg!!! I rarely agree with Rob in most cases I see grey areas with his thinking…but he has nailed this draft and there is no way seattle drafts four straight defensive players. I’m not a fan of Ervin but to say that the defense is can or will receive the type of attention you are suggesting is crazy. There isn’t enough playing time for those picks. We know Seattle ranks there board to how much a player improves a position and to think that we are going to have available to us two yet alone four players that upgrade this team on defense so much more that the oline as a whole is just bizzare thinking.
Agreed Hawkfan! How can anyone who watched the Hawks’ play in the two playoff games against Minnesota and Carolina think that the OL is fine as is? Granted, the icy cold played a big role in the MN game but the main reason why we got in such a deep hole against Carolina was because our OL was a sieve against the Panthers, causing Wilson to panic and uncharacteristically throw costly interceptions in the 1st half, including that horrible inexcusable pick 6! And if the offseason, we lost two starters, Sweezy & Okung. Some may say good riddance but remember, they were starters because they were better than what the ones on the bench and currently on our team. How does this not scream OL is a HUGE need in the draft?
My preference is for the Hawks to pick Coleman if he’s available at #26 but honestly, if he was gone and only Ifedi or Spriggs or even Kelly or Martin were left, I’d be pretty happy with anyone of them also. Usually, picking this late in the first round, teams end up with scraps at the OL position but it appears that there’s a lot of talent at that position this year so it’s the perfect time to pick a talented OL and hopefully develop him into a solid starter for the next 8 – 10 years. I’d be really happy if we walk away from this draft with 3 higher round OL picks but I think we need at least 2 in the high rounds and one or two more in the later rounds or UDFA for depth and further competition. I remember Webb with Chicago and he sucked so I have to believe he was signed for depth/spot starter and as competition during camp. I don’t know anything about Sowell but given how cheap his contract was, he’s probably not ideal as a long-term starter either. Who knows if any of the high OL picks learn the pro game quick enough to start and be competent in their first year but we’ve seen examples of that happening every year so it’s not like it’s impossible. Plus, we just need an infusion of new young talent if we hope for long-term improvement in the OL and thus long-term success for Russell and our offense.
And I agree with Rob, there’s no way, with the obvious needs on the OL (and how strong our D still is) that we invest our first four picks on D. The potential incremental benefits from making those picks as opposed to investing them in the OL and the potential gains there just don’t add up.
If you look at any statistic beyond the final score you will see that the Seahawk defense did not lose the Carolina game. RW threw 2 interceptions one pic 6 and one inside our own 30. The Seahawks OL gave up 5 sacks and were simply overwhelmed by Carolina.
Exactly!
I’ll bite.
Yes, RW was under pressure, paniced and had those 2 costly interceptions. He was sacked 5 times, 3 of them after holding the ball over 3 seconds try to extend and save a play.
That was a direct result of that first CAR drive. They blew our defense easily running the ball all the way into the end zone. They set the tone of dominance and high scoring. RW panicked and made two costly mistakes that practically put the game out of reach.
The OL was man handled, the D was man handled, RW panicked and made mistakes. The whole team, a week after the frozen game, took longer to recover and did not enter that game ready to face the panthers intensity.
If that game is the evidence you need to point a finger at a position group, you’ll need a lot of fingers. 80 yards on the first CAR running play?
Exactly. Everyone from Carrol on down to the water boys were unprepared for that game. They just flat blew it. Total team meltdown.
Now, did that game expose certain position groups and coaches? Hell yes! But to blame one position group for the game is silly. Far too much went wrong to do that!
My Dad thinks Carolina soaked their field all night in addition to the rain, and had the right shoes for the conditions, while Seattle came out on D with the wrong shoes. It is a fact Seattle’s D was slipping and changed their shoes after the first drive. So F for the equipment manager, and maybe some Pats-level cheating, but the fact remains Seattle looked lost and unprepared across the board, in coaching and playing.
Carolina knew exactly what plays we were running out of which formations early in the game because Bevell gets extremely conservative early in games–especially in the playoffs–and likes to run the same stuff over and over. That conservatism most definitely contributed to the line’s crappy performance, and RW’s panicked mistakes. So theres plenty of blame to go around, like I said. It wasnt just the line.
Fair points, Eran, and I totally agree that the D could have played better in that Carolina game also!
Yes, the Seahawks D was blown off the ball on that first drive, which could have lead to Wilson feeling the need to extend plays even while the OL was being manhandled. But after that first drive, the D settled down and for the most part contained Carolina. Problem was our offense until about midway(?) in the 2nd quarter either was ineffective or turned the ball over, giving Carolina short scoring drives.
Our OL and offense eventually settled down and (almost) mounted one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history and that game was sort of a microcosm of our whole season, ineffective OL play/offense for the first part of the game/season until the OL/offense finally improved and became effective/dangerous.
Despite that inconsistency and at times very ineffective play, we lost two OL starters and a key swing tackle in FA. Some of us may not think much of these players but they were still some of the better ones on the OL.
Contrast the state of the OL with our D. Yes, we definitely need more interior pressure and Cary Williams didn’t work out but despite these flaws, our D was still one of the best in the league. We can certainly make some tweaks to improve the D but I don’t see anyone in the draft on defense that would significantly improve the D. The OL is a totally different story and to me, it’s just so logical that we spend some high picks on the OL that I’m not really understanding why people seem okay with the current group of OL on our team.
“What changed was RW started throwing his passes quicker, no longer seeking to extend plays. He got better at recognizing what the Defenses were doing.”
What also changed was that Rawls stepped in for Lynch. So Rawls’ quicker (than Lynch) action plus RW’s quicker timing took some pressure off of the OL. This is no different than NE and Brady utilizing the short passing game to offset OL issues.
These were necessary adjustments. However, the lack of talent on OL was eventually exposed on collective and individual basis.
JSPC and Cable do like their guys, perhaps even overvaluing them, but they won’t go all defense in this draft. Not if they are rational.
I’m thinking that despite the perceived reach, McGovern could be the pick at 26. Athletically he ticks the boxes, and has the technical experience that the FO values. At 56 I think the Kaufusi pick would also make sense. He had the production at his position, is the son of a coach, and BYU was the school that Bevell visited about a coaching gig. To me it seems like a real possibility that the first 2 picks could go that way. Any thoughts?
I think we need to pump the brakes a bit here. A first round pick is a bit much.
I think that McGovern will not be there at 56, and I think that he can offer more to the team sooner than Ifedi. They are both athletically gifted, but McGovern can play multiple spots well, and the Seahawks have clearly had interest in the Missouri o-line pool. Don’t get me wrong, it would great if he ends up being there at 56, but I don’t see. Especially considering the Chiefs interest in the same pool of prospects.
If he’s not there at #56 — there are other options. Mitch Morse lasted to #49 and he is/was superior IMO. If McGovern’s gone just go in a different direction.
Rob is absolutely right (and so is Trevor in his reply also). If he’s there at 56, great. If not, it’s not the end of the world.
Ground Hawk, I agree that McGovern is more of a “finished product” than Ifedi and can probably play anywhere on the o-line. But instead of taking him at 26, if they really have their hearts set on him, they can trade down (out of the first round) and still probably land McGovern early-to-mid second round, maybe even later than that. I highly doubt any team wants him in the first round, and if a team takes him that high, then they definitely reached big-time.
Are you OK with the Seahawks drafting Ifedi at 26?
I think McGovern at 26 would be a grand canyon sized reach, but would exponentially prefer him to Ifedi if those were the only two choices. At least McGovern could potentially become a starter at C. Ifedi is a nowhere proposition in my eyes. You can fix footwork and punch. You can’t fix pad level, lunging, and grabby hands. Especially when coupled eith being soft at that hige size. He is a non starter
He is rated a 3-4th rounder in most places. I think he should be there in Rd #2 and if he rises and we miss there are other options like Westerman.
People were also shocked that the Seahawks drafted a 5’10” QB in the 3rd round, and look how that has turned out.
But you arguing against yourself with this example. In any redraft, Wilson would be taken high in the first round. But JS figured he could get him in the third, and risked passing on him in the second (even though they really wanted him) and took Wagner there instead.
In other words, you don’t need to spend a first round pick on McGovern. Maybe not even a second. That’s partly where JS is genius, by projecting where someone might be drafted.
I don’t follow your reasoning. JS believed that he could get Wilson in the 3rd because he apparently bet on the fact that no other team would pick Wilson that early. How this differs from drafting McGovern early is that based on McGovern’s technical and athletic abilities he will be sought after sooner than Morse was the previous year (pick 49); McGovern has longer arms and scored higher in athletic metrics. Wilson’s height was seen has reason enough, for every team who wanted a QB to not draft him. All of McGovern’s measurables point to a player that warrants a higher than 3-4 round grade, similar to Morse the year before.
Can we pull back on the athletic metrics a little? Jake Brendel and Joe Thuney are right behind McGovern in the SPARQ rankings this year.
Mark Glowinski’s athletic metrics were equal to or better than McGovern’s last year and he went R4, as you know.
People still have to play football.
Good point.
The point is that McGovern can play football well, at multiple positions on the o-line, and also is a great athlete. I just can’t understand how these facts are being overlooked for a player like McGovern, but endorsed for someone like Ifedi.
Haha You and me both, friend. I have no idea why anybody would accuse Ifedi of having 1st round talent. Every scouting report on him lists his first positive attribuye as “looks like a prototypical NFL tackle”. Looks like tarzan, plays like Jane. McGovern appears to be a smart heady football player who is pretty technically sound. 3rd round player who will be over drafted due to the dearth of talent availability
Ifedi does not play like Jane.
I beg to differ Rob. Almost half the tape I watch of him has no finish. No punishment. His best plays are when he can absorb a defender and win with a toght clutch. NFL D Lineman won’t let him get a clutch like that. He would end up grasping for air. I fail to see where he dominates anyone with power or a pancake, other than by accident. Whereas Shon Coleman’s tape just jumps off the screen with violence and mean streak. His is unquestionable. Ifedi’s toughness and finishing are barely evident in my eyes
They aren’t being overlooked, but even if he’s all those things, he’s probably a guard or center. Not great positions of scarcity or value, so just because you might miss him at #56 doesn’t make it sound to grab him at #26. I liked Ifedi, but I think they are getting the same treatment. Difference is that Ifedi’s ceiling is as a very good RT, at least, and potentially a viable LT, both of which are harder to find that good guards or centers. Making him a better value #26, IMO.
Mark Glowinski also played football well, and was also a very good athlete, just like McGovern. And he went in the 4th.
Good points. I just can’t see the FO going after an early o-line player who can’t make an immediate impact, and if that means that they feel that the best way to address that position is by taking a guy like McGovern early then I am good with that. It might not be a sexy pick, but if it helps to keep Wilson from being destroyed then mission accomplished.
“People still have to play football.”
SPOT ON. (Without wanting to suggest that anyone has said otherwise.)
People were also shocked that the Seahawks drafted Justin Britt in the 2nd round, and look how that has turned out. 😉
This happens every year. Rob highlights a few guys the Seahawks might be interested in, a few people think they might be good, by the second day everybody is convinced they are a must-get, by the third day everybody’s convinced that all these 2nd & 3rd day picks are going to be gone by the mid-2nd round and the Seahawks have no chance of grabbing any of them.
I’m talking about a player that is being projected to go between rounds 2-4,not some UDFA. Mitch Morse was in a similar situation last year, and he went at 49 to Kansas City, who coincidentally just so happened to be at McGovern’s pro-day this year. Seattle was also there with a number of coaching staff running him through drills, so I don’t think that it is far fetched to say that McGovern might not be available at pick 56.
Bullard apparently ran a 1.52 10 yard split at the UF pro day….
http://www.alligatorarmy.com/2016/3/23/11285380/florida-gators-nfl-draft-2016-pro-day-results
I’m not buying he ran it that quick.
Keith Marshall’s 10-yard split the combine was a 1.53.
Pro days are like snake oil but he is quicker than I initially thought.
I know, right? You know who else had a great pro day today? ME!!!
I ran a 4.2 40, jumped 41” in the vertical, aced all the position drills, and benched 225 37 times!
Then, sadly, I found out that my pro day results are very average. Everyone has great pro days 🙁
Read that article…it states, “Bullard’s 1.52 10-yard split was fastest among all interior linemen at the Combine” which is simply not true. His best 10 YS at the combine was 1.66 s which was on the run that became his official 4.93s 40. 1.66s is a really good time for a DT, but a far cry from 1.52 s. I don’t know where the author of the article came up with 1.52s-Bullard did not run at Florida’s pro day.
My Ok I am sold we need to go OL early mock. JS did say his main goal was to get tougher this off season. So my focus was tough, athletic character players.
Rd#1 Shon Coleman (OT Auburn)- Love Coleman’s toughness and nastiness. He is a legit OT who should start at RT allowing Webb to move into LG. He and Rankins are my two favourite prospects. Ifedi is also certainly a good pick here if Coleman’s medicals are a concern.
Rd#2 Connor McGovern (G/C Mizzu) if there is any such things as a sure pick with the Hawks it is McGovern. Can play Center or Guard and would be an upgrade at either spot.
Rd#3 Willie Henry (DT Michigan) Henry would be a great addition to the DT rotation and provide insurance in case of the inevitable Jordan Hill injury. Javon Hargraves or Malik Collins would be options here if Henry is off the board.
Rd#3 Comp Tyler Ervin (RB SJ St.) I am sold Rob. I would be disappointed if we don’t get him now.
Rd#4 Jatavius Brown (LB Akron)- One of my favourite players in the draft. He is the Tyler Ervin on defense. Undersized but really fast and tough. All he does is make plays. Would love to see him in a Hawks uni.
Rd#5 Tyrone Holmes (Edge Montana)- Incredibly productive, high motor and good athlete. Worth a shot in mid rounds
Rd#6 Jeff Driskell (QB LTech)- We need a young developmental QB and Driskell is athletic with good arm talent.
Rd#7 David Oneymata (DT Manitoba)- Love his potential. Great size and athlete. Everything you could want in a DT prospect. Only been playing football 3-4 years. Could end up being a steal.
Rd#7 Robbie Anderson (WR/CB Temple)- Our newest CB convert. Ideal size, length speed combo who looked really good in DB drills I guess.
UDFA / Round 7 replacements
Torian White (OT UCLA) All depends if off field stuff checks out. Really talented but not worth the hassle if any of the issues of Dom Violence are legit.
Dom Williams (WR Wash St ) Really like his game and we have had a ton of success with UDFA at WR
Peyton Barber- (RB Auburn)-Great back story and I hope he gets a shot
Justin Zimmer (DT Ferris St.) – Freak athlete we have talked about plenty on the blog. Has DT skils but could be Cables newest convert project.
Wendell Williams- (WR University of Cumberland) This is the kid that ran the 4.19 40 at the regional combine. With that kind of speed at least deserves a look
Not bad, Trevor. I am familiar with the more well-known, much-discussed names in your mock. As for the more obscure guys, I will try to find out more about them. But your mock certainly looks promising.
If you have not checked out Brown or Oneymata you should if you have the chance.
I like that mock. Love the inclusion of UDFAs too.
All of those picks are solid… Except Driskel. I can not stand the way that kid throws the ball. He made Tebow look like Drew Brees while at Florida. No thank you with that release and lack of awareness.
I’ve been looking at the Centers, trying to figure out who the Seahawks might look for in the middle rounds.
I was wondering about Boehm. The NFL Draft Profile of him has a lot of nice things to say about him, including “Tough and smart.” and “Rarely gets Bull-Rushed.”
The also include a quote by an NFC West Executive: “He’s tough as nails. He’ll play with pain and he’s the kind of guy who can command a locker room. I always look for talent first, but leadership might be just as important from your center and he has that.”
I have to wonder if he’s on the Seahawks radar.
Do any of you smart, film-watching guys have an opinion on Boehm?
Tough as nails. Fun guy personality wise. Maybe a bit small for SEA. But an option for sure.
You can take it to the bank. One of the Hawks first two picks will be an offensive lineman. Two of the first four picks will be offensive lineman.
Rob: Just curious Do you think NFL GMs/scouts from other teams read this blog?
Probably not.
Boehm it not just being tough as nails this guy has leadership capability in spades. Durability does not seem to be an issue either starting 52 games.
There’s less than a 1% chance that we won’t take an OL with at least one of our first two picks. Definite need for another pass rusher and linebacker, but nothing more than a lineman.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Once you get used to the idea that we don’t NEED a tackle, you can see how we could get a starter-level G/C in R3.
I wouldn’t bet against OL in our first two picks, but not a lock, IMO.
I think its 50/50 whether we pick one in the first two rounds. All this o-line obsession is overblown to me.
RB, OLB, DL are all similar needs, plus I wouldn’t be surprised if we went WR high too.
Look at the guys they have at RB, LB and DL and compare to the OL.
It’s clear what Seattle’s biggest need is.
Must be a lot of new viewers because the consensus on your site was OL OL OL. A lot of new views of needs. You keep bring in more and more people with your site, it’s awesome.
We all know OL is a need, but its fun to argue over the extent of that need. And most seem to realize we need a fast LB and a DT with pass rush ability pretty badly as well. Not to mention a backup QB and some more depth with potential at DB…
OL is certainly not the only need, but its one of a few glaring needs.
SEA have fast LBs on the roster. Some of the fastest in the NFL.
DTs with pass rush ability are extremely rare in the NFL. They’re even rarer in the draft. SEA are fortunate enough to have Bennett, and (to a much lesser extent thus far) Jordan Hill.
Backup QBs, another DB prospect, maybe a WR or an inline TE…
There are always roster holes to fill. More holes than picks in the draft or space under the cap to sign FAs. The key is to prioritize those holes. Fill the biggest ones with the best prospects you can get.
This year the biggest holes are on the OL.
We have fast LB’s, yes. But Wags misses time every year, and though Im a huge Coyle fan, he’s not all that fast. And the need for a fast LB is for one to replace Irvin, or at least replace him at SAM. We dont have a great candidate on the team to fill that role; Pinkins is a total unknown, and Morgan is a fine special teamer and a good backup but I dont want him starting at SAM. Pierre-Louis was horrid in his starts, and wasnt even allowed to play last year when Wags went down, they shuffled Wright and played Morgan rather than watch Pierre-Louis blow coverages all day.
Thanks for staying with me on with what must seem like a frivolous argument, Rob. I really appreciate the forum you provide for all of us that have passion for this Game.
No problem man and enjoyed the debate.
Rob is so awesome. A lot of other bloggers would have permanently kicked out like about half the comment posters already. He expects a certain level of etiquette, but understands when people are passionately making a point.
That is why Rob’s blogs routinely get several hundred comments or more, most of them well thought out, while others get 30 at most with much of it little more than “Go Seahawks.”
Seriously. I look at posts with 47 comments and think, ‘Well how many Go Hawks! Do I have to go through to get to some content?’ And if Rob hasn’t /gkick’ed me yet after all the hollarin’ I do about Ifedi being our first round pick, he ain’t kicking nobody! Haha
Walter Football Mock today for Hawks
Rd#1 Bullard
Rd#2 Spence
Rd#3 Garnett
Rd#3 Comp James Bradbury
Rd#4 Tyler Ervin
Rd#5 Tyler Higbee
Not enough focus on OL for my liking but this is the first time I have seen a national writer get several of the guys we have talked about on this blog. I wonder if he is starting to get more input from Tony Pauline who they seem to be featuring now.
This sort of shows how fluid draft stock can be. A few months ago Spence was rd 3-5 as a guy with potential but character issues. Then after the Sr. Bowl, he was a to 15 lock, maybe wont make it out of the top 10. Then after a lackluster combine performance he’s back in rd 2-3.
To be fair he is a somewhat unique case, but interesting nonetheless.
You are right. I still think he will end up being a quality pass rusher in the NFL. I would not be upset with him in the 2nd round if we went OL in the first.
Can’t see them drafting Spence. Nothing about his profile, ultimately, said Seahawks. Ten-yard, length, size, speed, agility.
The James Bradbury pick is an interesting. Been reading about Bradbury. The guy has Seattle’s measureables at the corner position.
I do like the TE Tyler Higbee as an option for the Hawks. He’s someone who should be getting more national attention, IMO. Reminds me of that young emerging TE in Kansas City (forgot his name).
I really like Higbee. With Graham’s injury in the air and Willson’s last year coming up, if he’s still there it’s a great pick in the 5th. With this being another bad TE class though I suspect he’ll go sooner.
Yup, I like Higbee and I also like someone Pete and John have more outwardly shown an interest in, and that’s Nick Vannett from Ohio State. Vannett can catch AND he’s a good blocker.
I havent seen this kid Vannett play, but if he isnt toad-slow and can block, Im all for drafting him. Seattle hasnt had a real, old-school TE who could block AND receive since Zach Miller. We’re dying for an actual TE, regardless of Graham.
Travis Kelce is the Chiefs TE whose name I couldn’t remember. That’s who Tyler Higbee reminds me of.
Rob I have a question about ifedi as far as character goes does he fit the Seahawks profile? He just loves to play football and is a hard worker? I haven’t heard anything yet so I’m very interested in hearing. I feel like with the way the Hawks draft like you said looking at what a player can be rather than what they won’t be I feel that ifedi fits the mold 100% and could be a lock if he is one of those guys who loves to play
Very well spoken, intelligent individual. Plays physical. Not as edgy as Coleman but there are no issues there as far as I can see.
Listening the Kiper and Mcshay podcast today. They are discussing Keanu Neal as a 3rd rounder. The only safety who likes him is the guy hosting the show. I wonder if Mel even watches any tape anymore. How can you not even have Neal in your top 10 safeties? At least Mcshay has him as a 3rd rounder which is still way too low for a guy I think will be a 1st rounder.
They’re in for a shock.
Every year everybody, no matter how good, gets a handful of guys WAY wrong. Just looked at a well-respected guy’s top 50 from last year. He had one guy top 10, ended up going 7th round. One guy top 15, went in 5th. Three guys in top 50 were UDFA.
I think we go the other way, where we assume everybody we like — or think the Seahawks will like — will be liked by every other team, and JAGs will all go by the end of the second round. But the buzz on Neal has been late 1st, early 2nd, so it seems strange that national guys haven’t picked up on that.
Rob, been reading your site for about a month and am addicted. Thank you for what you do. Fantastic analysis.
Question:
In that twitter video, which of the 2 OLs was McGovern? The first guy looked way more fluid running than did the second. The tweet had McGovern listed second, so does that mean he was the awkward one?
Thanks man. Boehm was first, McGovern second.
Acquiring a fullback in UDFA is totally fine to me, but unless Cottom truly has been converted to a TE (he is listed as a TE but we haven’t heard if he is no longer a FB) I am really excited about Cottom, and if he is good enough I would champion the idea of going forward (into the regular season) with just one FB on the roster. I can’t imagine that either Tuku or Coleman would get signed anywhere, so they’d be on our ghost roster, ready to be signed and start playing if anything happened to Cottom.
Just think; if we are only carrying one FB on the roster then we can use fill that empty roster spot with w/e position group we want. Does Pete want to carry an extra CB? An extra O-linemen? An extra D-linemen? An extra LB? What about WR or TE? Lots of possibilities.
It looks like our mind is made up and we will not let the facts confuse us. However, I see a lot of small things pilling up and pointing to a different direction.
The Seahawks believe that OL talent coming out of college is not NFL ready and most are not even NFL worthy. The only real success they had with their 4 top OL picks is the guy they picked 6th in the first round. Even that guy was not worthy of an extension at “market prices”. After picking OL in the top rounds almost every year, last year they went and drafted 3 guys in day 3 with the sole intention of red shirting them for a year(Glow) or two(Soko) till they are ready.
Last year the OL was set just 2 weeks before the season started. They also made a big error with Novak over Lewis. The combined effects were horrendous OL in the first half of the season. Once Lewis returned to center and the line gelled they were ranked 8th in the NFL in sacks allowed in the 2nd half of the season. The running game worked with Rawls and even with C-Mike and RW posted the best season of his career by far. The offense ended 4th in the NFL in both yards and points.
After the season ended PC acknowledged that the OL “got in rhythm” in the 2nd half but it needs more consistency. JS said the focus is on cohesion and not on big names.
None of them pointed to the draft as the main course for the OL. This week both were asked about the OL again. JS stated that they are ok with the line and further elaborated about the OL members at every position. PC said “I think we’re in good shape,”. He was specific about the Tackles Gilliam, Webb leading and Sowell, Poole competing for both roles. He spoke about the guards Britt and Glow. He was all in about Glow and mentioned that Britt needs to improve on his pass pro. His overall statement about them was “We think those guards (Glowinski and Britt) give us a really secure spot with big upside.”
Secure!!!, big upside!!!
After the season end PC stated that they are looking to the draft to enhance pass rushing. This week he mention the draft again with regards to replacing Irvin. In spite of common opinion here, PC is not shy to mention the draft as a source of talent for team needs. He never mentioned it once regarding the OL.
The above does not prohibit drafting O-Liners high in the draft. If the right guy is there, even at 26, and other guys are not there, our first pick could be OL. I’m also sure that we will leave this draft with at least 2 OL picks. They will be made according to their value vs other options. They will not be picked because they feel the same desperation that is expressed here on a daily basis.
Those that believe we should dedicate our first 2 picks to OL will be disappointed. We will not dedicate 3 out of 4 top picks to OL either.
Ignore all the above if you want to and blame it on smoke screen etc.
The funny thing is that all the people that bang on the table for top OL picks agree that the two solid players they like are Glow and Gilliam and that next in line is Lewis (even if he lost to Nowak…). That’s 2 UDFAs and a 4th rounder all after a red shirt year. They guy everybody wants gone is a 2nd rounder.
Gilliam, McGovern, Martin, Glow, Ifedi – isn’t going to happen.
I don’t think anyone is saying 3 of the first 4 picks on OL. The consensus seemed to be 2 of 4 and the option to not go OL in Rd#1 or 2 has certainly be discussed.
Since you know what is not going to happen why not share with us what is going to happen.
Trevor,
You are very active here so you know exactly what i am talking about. There is an overall OL panic here. The calmer voices here expect 2 OL out of the first 3 picks. Most are banging the table for Britt’s head. Even Rob, in reply to me posting Caroll’s statement replied: “What’s he going to say? ‘The guy sucks, we would’ve cut him if he wasn’t the only left guard on the roster.”
Others have not been as polite or gentle about it.
The aggressiveness that any none OL direction get here smell of fear. Like this team is doomed if we don’t focus everything at that point.
Don’t tell me you do not feel it.
I am no expert in player analysis and no draft guru. The Seahawks surprize the best of them every year. The draft class this year looks very thin at pass rushers and pass rushing DTs so they may not get more then one DL player at the first 2 days. I’m sure they will pick one OL pick with our top 4 picks. If we do not trade back in the 1st (most likley), the other 2 picks in rounds 1-3 will be used for other needs. That’s my dumb forecast.
I agree with you completely that there is perhaps too much focus on the OL and perhaps an unrealistic view of how much the OL can be improved in the draft.
I do howeve think there is a pretty valid reason for the general consensus that the OL needs to be drastically improved. They were the single biggest reason we lost the games we did last year including the playoff game.
People will say it was the defense could not hold leads. I would argue that the 4th quarter collapses were because they could not run the ball to even get a first down to run down the clock. The consecutive 3 and outs in the 4th quarters of those games where huge because our OL got no push and we could not run the ball at all. People will point to us being the 4th best running team but this is incredibly misleading. When we needed to run the ball in the 4th quarter last year we could not. Our pass pro was never good under Cable but we could always dominate the line in the 4th quater. That is the biggest problem IMO and what be addressed.
That will help our defense in the 4th quater as well.
A counter to your argument would be the fact that this front office has gone OL with the first two picks in the past when they took Carp and Moffitt. So there is certainly precedence for going that way.
Indeed there is.
If you were the guy that needs to support top OL picks and Carp, Britt and Moffitt are your examples, would you feel good about your position when you key starters remaining from last year are Gilliam, Glow and Lewis?
We have one 1st rounder on our entire roster so that could be said about every position group.
Exactly.
There is no rush or pressure. Not on the OL and not elsewhere.
We have a stacked roster before the draft and we will add to it.
In the past we were more positive here about our potential picks and what they could bring to make us even better. This year it feels like we are saving the roster rather then adding to it.
Eran, in the last month we’ve looked at the idea of drafting Derrick Henry, Deion Jones, Jonathan Bullard and Keanu Neal. We’ve talked about why they won’t draft Nkemdiche. We’ve zoned in on guys like Tyler Ervin.
Of course there’s going to be a lot of focus on the O-line — but continuously complaining about that seems a bit silly. They said it was the priority at the end of last season, they almost certainly will address it early in the draft with a pick or two. I really don’t see the issue.
I do not wish to put words in Eran mouth Rob but I’m not sure he is referring to you or your topics but rather many of the comments. Eran does make a point that seems to be overlooked in Tom Cable’s opinion of college O/L in general and we have yet to see what the plans are for last years group of redshirt linemen.
Love the latest mock but I was wondering how it might look if you added one last wrinkle….Seahawks trade down out of the first round. Given their history that is certainly a possibility.
I’m not sure they can afford to this year — if they want an OT or a DE. Options will have likely evaporated in the 30’s.
Rob,
It has nothing to do with the amazing work you are doing, nothing at all.
You do bring up a lot of options and alternatives, i love your work and have been learning from it for years.
It is here in the comments sections that the fight to save the OL rises no matter what the subject is.
There is a difference between the yearly banging on the table for this or that guy that we had here for years to what is happening this year.
People sound depressed with our current line and upset if we do not go all in to save the OL.
It was more fun when we all wanted to get the best possible players to improve the team and it now feels more like a fight to get rid of the players we have no matter what.
It’s like there is a directive that this line must be drastically changed and nothing else comes even close.
I find the logic behind it wrong and i try to voice my opinion.
I don’t think anyone’s ‘depressed’.
I think people acknowledge, correctly, the teams biggest need. And they want to talk about it.
My opinion is not a popular one, but the line’s supposed resurgence during the second half of the season bears closer scrutiny. Looking a little deeper than just Points Scored, Yards Gained, or Sacks Allowed, you get a picture that isnt quite as rosy.
For instance, Seattle beat three top 11 Defenses (Minny, AZ, Pitt) during that stretch, and one of them twice (Minny). However, in the first game Minny was missing four of their best Defensive players, and to top that off, those players were one guy from EACH position group (D-line, LB, DB’s)–that kind of widespread injury decimates a defense. Arizona was the last game of the season, and IMO it was obvious the Cards players werent firing on all cylinders due to playoff seeding being set.
The second Minny game, they had their starters back, and it was a totally different ballgame. Surely the weather affected Seattle players more than Minny players and was a major factor in that game, but its still obvious that their D was immensely improved with those four guys back.
And of course we all know what happened in Carolina.
Seattle’s offensive line improved dramatically in the second half of the season, but not as much as some would have us believe. They still were giving up pressure, and they still struggled mightily vs good defenses (losing to the Rams, struggling vs Minny and getting hammered by Carolina in the playoffs), and only excelled vs one really good D (Pitt).
I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Seattle hammer AZ and Minny and Pitt, but watching the AZ and Minny games, I was convinced that if we played either team in the playoffs it wouldnt be so easy to beat on them. I could see AZ wasnt playing worth a damn, and that Minny’s D was a shell of itself without those 4 guys.
Ive been accused of cherry picking to support my argument, but I dont feel that is fair. I didnt come up with my argument before the games were played, I based it off the game and the stats.
Any way you slice it, losing Okung and having Lewis as the best C on the roster and Gilliam as the likely LT–to say nothing of expecting much from Britt, Sowell and Webb–isnt the kind of line that engenders much confidence in fans or NFL folks. The line is the weakest link on this team, and the Achilles heal that cost us a chance to go to the SB. Therefore, as the biggest need on the team, its the one that requires the most resources to fix. And most agree Seattle would be foolish not to use at least one of their first two picks on the line, and likely two of four.
Myself, Im not convinced the first pick needs to be O-line–I think we still need to find a pass rush DT, and if there’s one there at 26 Seattle likes, they should–and will–take him over any O-lineman. But the next pick probably needs to be O-line, in that scenario.
The counter argument would be –
If we need to boost the OL to stand up to CAR, ARI and the RAMS, – why did we score in those 6 games 27.2 points a game, more then our season average of 26.2.
We ended on the road in the playoffs because we lost twice to the Rams, a team that lost every game they were held under 18 points (9 teams). Maybe a defense that would hold the Rams to under 18 points as most teams did is the answer?
Eran,
I understand what you are saying. It is actually a very common psychological phenomenon. If you were posting here a violence years ago, many felt the same sense of being attacked if they suggested drafting anyone but Joel Bitonio in the first round.
But, I encourage you to consider this. Rob’s role is to share a thought or opinion that invites discussion. Disagreement or conflict provokes discussion. Rob does a very fine job of encouraging respectful disagreement or conflict. Some are occasionally rude or snarky or condescending but ver rarely are they belligerent.
I have found this forum to be the best place you will ever find on the Internet for year-round hardcore Seahawk fans to discuss building an NFL roster.
Many people will consider the same set of data and analyze it differently and reach a different conclusion. Your comments are well thought out and contribute to the high quality of the discussion on this site. Don’t be discouraged if some disagree with you.
Bitonio would have been a great pick, in hindsight. Even in the first. And Britt was a total mistake, any way you look at it. He wouldnt have been a good pick in the third round either. He’s been that bad…
Eran would you please post a link to the article where PC mentions “the draft again with regards to replacing Irvin.”?
I’m not able to find any article quoting PC that way.
I found this (from Bob Condotta at Seattle Times):
“On losing Bruce Irvin and how to replace him: ‘We did a lot of things with Bruce, he played SAM (strongside) backer for us and also rushed on third down for us. We did everything you can do with a guy I think. I heard he said otherwise, but he did a lot of good stuff. Frank Clark is going to really help us. We think he is going to be a premier rusher, he showed that last year. So losing Bruce as an outside guy on the right side really opens up the opportunity for Frank to step up and do some good things for us. But there may not be one guy that we have to load up the SAM backer spot and also play there. Mike Morgan did really well for us when he played there last year at the SAM spot but he’s not going to be the third-down rusher so it might be a combination of guys playing. But it will be a spot to watch, though. … We’re going to play Cassius Marsh at SAM backer some and see how he does there and he can also double as a third-down rusher, too.’’’
No mention of the draft at all.
And there’s this from JS on Seahawks.com:
“Replacing Bruce Irvin will likely be a group effort.
After beginning his career as a situational pass-rusher, Bruce Irvin developed into Seattle’s strongside linebacker in the base defense, while maintaining a key role as a pass-rusher in the nickel defense. One reason Irvin, a former first-round pick, was able to play those two roles is that he is, as Schneider described it, ‘freaky athletic,’ so it probably won’t be realistic to see one player come in and do everything Irvin did in Seattle’s defense now that he is off to Oakland.
As is the case with the O-line, nothing is close to being settled yet, but one option Schneider outlines is for Frank Clark to take on some of Irvin’s pass-rushing responsibilities, while Cassius Marsh and Mike Morgan could battle at strongside linebacker.
‘When we drafted Frank—you have to prepare for the possibility of not having some players,’ Schneider said. ‘Obviously we wanted to have Bruce back and if the two of them were on the same team again, that would have been great, but to a certain extent you have to look towards the future.'”
Again, no mention of the draft with respect to replacing Irvin.
Thanks in advance.
It was Danny Kelly in a post about Frank Clark:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/3/23/11291596/frank-clark-seahawks-pete-carroll-owners-meetings
See the last sentence:
“There may not be one guy that we have to load up with the SAM backer spot and also play [defensive end],” Carroll said. “Mike Morgan did really well for us when he played last year at the SAM spot, but he’s not going to be the third-down rusher. So it’s going to be a combination of guys playing. It will be a spot to watch though, the competition there. We’ll see what happens in the draft coming up.”
Cool thanks.
Sounds like the first part of that quote is – they’re not going to replace Irvin with one particular player. Rather they’ll take a down/distance approach to personnel decisions at SAM/OTTO. Not to mention the ever-present “always compete” mantra.
The part about the draft coming up does indicate maybe they have someone in mind to add to that competition. But I don’t read into that they’re expecting to replace Irvin 1-for-1. Nor is there any indication they’ll spend an early pick on that position.
Interesting stuff trying to read the tea leaves!
Carrol surely isnt going to admit it if they have one Position or several targeted as a Serious Need. No way in hell would ANY coach do that–that would be inviting teams with similar needs to grab the guys youre hoping will fall to you in the Draft.
They may in fact have the SAM position targeted as a need to be filled high in the draft. We wont know. Just like they may in fact be determined to take 2 or three O-linemen in a row with our first few picks.
They always engage in some subterfuge, as when they looked at two LB’s from Montana, showing more interest in the faster guy who went higher in the Draft, then pouncing on Coyle, who was their target all along. Or when the rumors came out post-draft that Seattle’s interest in TE Willsons teammate Vance McDonald was simply a ploy to fool the Niners, who were sniffing around the Rice TE’s. The Niners gloated about snatching McDonald from Seattle, when Seattle had no interest in drafting a blocking TE that high, and were actually after Willson.
Those kinds of games go on all the time. Seattle doesnt seem to engage in the Rumor Mill to make a guy fall to them, like Dallas did with Dez Bryant and Timmay! Ruskell famously did with Warren Sapp when he was in TB, but they do keep their Draft Strategy and targets a total secret, and they always surprise.
EranUngar, I hear what you are saying. There is a difference between what the consensus thinks about the o-line versus what JSPC and Cable might think.
I have said for a while now that I seriously doubt that they give up on their experiment from last offseason. They like what they’ve started, and will add to it—-but not change direction. They didn’t go after big free agents, Webb and Sowell look more like depth guys than surefire starters. They are likely to draft OL, but there is no telling where they will make those moves.
They invariably surprise. BPA, draft boards that bear no resemblance to how most of us see it. upside down moves for guys they fall in love with, etc.
I thought this was an interesting on Will Beatty as potential fit for the Hawks.
http://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/22/is-will-beatty-the-answer-to-seahawks-left-tackle-question/
Another problem with using your first round pick on the OL is you are pretty much forced to start him..regardless if he turns out to be NFL ready or not. Other positions (DL, RB, WR, etc)..you can slowly work them into the rotation..OL is usually all or nothing.
I think almost every 1st rounder is expected to contribute in year #1 except maybe QB.
You think if someone takes Elliot or Henry in Rd #1 at RB they are not going to expect them to be big contributors year#1?
The distinction there is contribute vs play every down. Most teams have rotations at RB, DL, WR..so they can get a rookie some field time…but adjust the workload without a lot of fanfare if the rookie is getting overwhelmed. Doesn’t work that way on the OL…
Valid point people don’t rotate OL but quite often a rookie tackle will play guard to give him time to adjust to speed etc.
I just think anyone taken in the 1st round in today’s NFL is expected to come in and play. We have not had a 1st rounder in 3 years so we have grown accustomed to rookies coming in and having an almost red shirt year. That is not the case with most teams.
Seahawks were criticized for taking a “situational player” when Irvin was first drafted with a first round pick. Now we seek his replacement. Frank Clark is the likely, in-house answer, at least for the 3rd down pass rush. The Draft has very limited answers available and high picks would be required to bring any such players to Seattle.
If we spend the 26th pick to get a pass rusher, are we going to get the same chorus of complaints?
Good — and scary — point.
Good because it explains one good reason why we might/should go somewhere other than OL with our first pick. Scary because following that train of thought leads to the conclusion that the collection of guys on the roster right now really is all we got, in terms of starter-ready players. Let’s hope it’s all we need.
The fact is, I only see two guys that the Seahawks D must have: Ogbah and Bullard. Both have quickness, length, and fluidity. Both would be available at #26, according to the majority of Mock Drafts. Take one with the pick, then trade up using the next two picks to get the other.
After them, I find a way to get Nassib. If you must, use the 3rd round comp pick, but I’m told he’ll be available later.
My bet is that the big slider this year will be Nkemdiche. More people every day see Randy Gregory as his comp. Will the Seahawks give him a try? Might be there for the 3rd Round!
How are you going to get these guys on the field though?
Ogbah’s snap count would be less than 20% unless you want to take Avril and Bennett off the field. It’s just not necessary to have Bennett, Avril, Clark, Nassib AND Ogbah. Bullard too is more of a DE that kicks inside so he’d be absorbing DE snaps too. You just can’t justify all of this — you’d be sitting guys on the bench.
That’s a pretty big rotation! I think we could find a pretty decent role for Bullard, but no way we effectively work in all those guys. Two would be okay (one in, one out), but I’d think grabbing one in later rounds to be a situational guy is the better choice.
Of course, I’m already on record saying the guy I want is Chris Jones, who could play *with* Bennett and Avril and could take a large number of snaps next to either Rubin or Siliga.
I like Jones a lot as well and if he gets his head on straight has the potential to be one of the best players in the draft. If he was there in Rd #2 he would be a steal I think.
I think (pretty sure) they will draft a DE-DT type in round one or two.
Mix him into the rotation with Bennett, Avril, Clark. That’s a nice group.
I already slaver at the thought of just Bennett, Avril, and Clark. One more good one is icing.
Similar to the strategy of drafting a rookie OL who can compete immediately at LG and possibly move to RT or LT in the future.
Get a DE/DT hybrid now who can help out in the rotation or NASCAR package and then potentially be a replacement for Bennett or Irvin (who are both 30) in a year or two.
The success of Denver winning a championship with a lot of pass rushers is already being copied by the rest of the league which will drive up the price for free agents. Our days of filling the D-Line pass-rushing need with low-cost veterans are over. Adding Clark last year could turn out to be a year ahead of the league (any doubt he would be a 1st-rounder this year?). Adding Bullard or Ogbah this year could turn out to be gold in the very near future.
But replacing Bennett isn’t a vital need. He’s 30 — not 35.
One day they will no doubt consider the future. But by the time Bennett retires the guy you drafted to replace him is hitting FA anyway.
Just because the Broncos won the Super Bowl this year doesn’t mean the Seahawks need to copy them. Seattle’s plan was good enough to make the two previous Super Bowls. They don’t need to change anything to copy Denver.
You’re right. But I wouldn’t mind it.
All these guys would contribute. They could focus on the difficulties of each job they have, instead of worrying about their stamina. Full energy expenditure on each play. If someone flags, there’s someone there to pick him up. It’s a Band of Brothers.
I’m looking for the Seahawks to rekindle that Legion of Boom attitude. The feeling of invincibility that oozed from the Unit that won the Super Bowl. It came from knowing that we were better than our opponents, that even the guys on the bench would come in and take on the other teams starters.
Didn’t the Hawks have a seven man DL rotation in ’13?? That seemed to work out well…
Their rotation at DE was Avril, Bennett and Clemons. They used Red Bryant, Clinton McDonald, Tony McDaniel and Brandon Mebane working the interior.
They already have the three DE’s — Avril, Bennett and Clark. Marsh is now seemingly a DE/LB hybrid.
Inside they have Siliga, Rubin, Hill.
That’s six guys instead of seven. Leaves one spot for a high pick on the D-line.
Other than Rubin..those inside guys are less than inspiring….I’d be happy with DE/DT with our first two picks..RB (Ervin) and an OL with our 3rds…
I don’t get why people are so determined to avoid OL until round three.
They might go DL at #26 — but avoiding it until round three? Let’s be right here, it is highly, highly unlikely.
Mostly because I don’t see a rookie cracking the starting OL line-up..so then you’re probably looking at a situation like with Sokoli/Glow last year..where they are on the 53 but not suiting up on game day.
There’s every chance a first or second round pick on the OL starts. Britt started in 2014. There are players way, way, way ahead of Britt in terms of talent in this draft.
Britt’s position is the only one on the OL that I would say is not locked down right now..but given the high draft pick they spent..I suspect they want to give him one more year to prove himself. They probably have Sokoli in mind for his replacement if it doesn’t work out…
Lewis is not locked down either.
Britt is going to be challenged. The 2nd round pick will have zero bearing. They cut Harvin a year after spending a first and third on him. They don’t think that way.
And thank god. Pete & John’s willingness to be wrong and punt the wrong guy is one of many reasons that we are near the top of league every year.
GLowinsky did well and looked the part of an NFL G right from Minicamp last year. He probably would have started if we’d had anyone other than Sweezy in front of him. Not that Sweezy was great, but Cable loves him, and he wasnt going to start anyone else at RG after working so hard to get Sweezy that far. Sweezy earned that starting job last year by doing everything asked of him and improving every year–no way was Cable doing to screw him over and bench him barring a total meltdown.
But that doesnt mean Glowinsky wasnt ready to play. He was probably ready, just not ready enough to beat out Sweezy.
My point is if Seattle found Glowinsky late in the Draft (Fourth/Fifth Round) and he was pretty good, its certainly not out of the realm of possibility that they find a C/G/T ready to play in the first three rounds this year. Those guys are there, in every draft, we just havent been great at finding them. Even considering the effect Spread Offenses are having on linemen, quality players ready to play can be found.
Anybody want to choose Hill and Marsh over Bullard and Ogbah or Nassib?
Hill and Marsh don’t start. They already play about 20% of the snaps. Marsh less than that even.
I feel like this is going round in circles.
Nassib has the bloodlines and production, but he did not perform well at the combine. Maybe it was a bad day for him? Bullard and Ogbah, on the other hand, would offer immediate impact. If Hill can get back to 2014 form then I think he will perform well. Marsh has yet to offer anything other than special teams support, so hopefully he can get it going if giving the opportunity. I would like to see Bullard or Ogbah over Marsh if they can be had, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were both gone by pick 26.
Marsh is much more than a ST demon. He’s improved dramatically as a run defender and someone who can keep outside contain. He has yet to show pass rushing ability though.
He’s definitely good depth, but with 20 tackles last year he’s not exactly pegged as an immediate starter for 2016.
That would be like have Clem, Irvin, Bennet, Avril, McDonald, Schofield, Hill on the roster.
You justify it with a ring on their finger.
No it wouldn’t be like that.
It’s be far different. Way over the top. They already have Bennett, Avril, Hill. Now they have Clark and Marsh. Schofield was a bit part player and they’ve talked to him and clem about returning anyway.
Discussing the idea they spend three or four of their picks in R1-3 exclusively on the D-line is about as worthwhile IMO as holding a conversation on which QB’s in this class can challenge Russell Wilson to start in 2016.
I see your point, Rob. Time for me to let this go. It’s just too big a gamble to step away from the conventional wisdom. The cost of it not working would be great.
But I can’t help but think that the Seahawks have a chance to do something really unusual, something ultimately completely validating for the unique approach to The Game that they’ve evolved.
Mostly though, my thanks to you, for letting us Knuckleheads work out our Seahawk emotions this way.
Rob, I agree that going DL in R1-3 is ridiculous.
My remark was that during our SB year we were indeed over the board deep at the position. Bennett led the group at 67%, everybody was fresh, injuries were easily overcome, players did not play hurt and it showed.
It is not realistic in our current situation but on its own it’s actually a very good idea.
Rob – did you see Tod McShay’s new mock draft. Rd 1. A’Shawn Robinson, DT, Alabama Rd 2. Derrick Henry, RB. Interesting he didn’t go Oline with one of the first two picks.
I don’t think he’s gone with OL for the Seahawks in any of his mocks.
What Ol did he have going in Rd #1? Where did he have Shon Coleman going?
Mcshay and Kiper really do not seem to be as plugged into the teams as some of the other national guys.
I don’t like those first 2 draft picks of that mock.
I don’t like them either. It would be worst case scenario for me as I think Robinson is the most over rated player in the draft. A big knock on him is his motor and that just does not sound like something the Hawks would like. Plus goes back to the point Rob has made many times that the Hawks have never drafted a run stuffer early.
I would be so surprised if Pete & John drafted Robinson that I would assume they drafted a guy named Robinson that I’ve never heard of.
Adding Robinson and Henry to the Seahawks would be a major upgrade, for sure. I would be shocked if A’Shawn were available to us at R1, and Derrick the same R2. In the highly unlikely event the Seahawks landed both of these guys, and then an OG and C in R3, we would be riding high, but if “ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas.”
Mcshay: “Robinson could last a little longer than expected due to his inconsistent motor and lower-body stiffness. ”
A 2 down NT with an inconsistent motor in the first round. For a front office who has never taken a DT before the 3rd round. Brilliant work Todd.
Hahah…my thoughts exactly when I saw that.
McShay. Doesn’t know the team.
Over time, we have learned some of Pete’s ways, and have found that he can be surprisingly (for an NFL coach) candid regarding his plans, so long as you can decipher Pete-speak. Yesterday was very revealing, I thought, in that Pete was glowing in his praise for Gary Gillian, and said he would be an outstanding left OT. To me, this means that the team believes that Gilliam is the LOT for the next few years, at least, and are not in urgent need for a starter at that position.
I have been projecting Spriggs as the Seahawks R1 pick, because he is the most natural LOT of those likely to be available at #26, and the prospect most ready to start at that position in a pinch. Given Pete’s statement yesterday, I now believe the team will be looking more for a right OT/OG prospect, ie someone with more heft and more willing and able to maul and exert brute force. For that reason, I will be joining the bandwagon and my money is on Germain Ifedi in R1.
James I think you are dead on with your encasement of Pete’s comments yesterday. I think it is definitely Gilliam’s spot to loose and I am surprisingly ok with that. I think he and Glowinski are the two surest things on the OL.
assessment not encasement (damn auto correct)
Agree 100% on Pete’s words on Gilliam. He went above and beyond — he was telling us ‘this is our LT’.
I think that’s been the plan with GG for some time.
I agree… I think the Okung offer was made to keep the band together, but SEA wasn’t overly-hurt with Gilliam waiting in the wings. Another reason the Joe Thomas “trade” talks had no validity
Exactly what is the profile of the player we are seeking for the O-Line? A guy who could start at both LG ahead of Britt or Webb and at RT ahead of … Britt and Webb? A better Britt or Webb…
Is that necessarily a first or second round pick?
For our brain trust, this time of year is when big impacts are made. Trades for Harvin and Graham, draft pick manuevers, finding second wave FAs, etc., don’t have the same ring to them as finding a likely back-up for the O-Line. It’s just not Seahawk-y.
The profile is a highly athletic lineman, probably with tackle experience, capable of playing multiple positions.
In this years class — those types are going to go early. So it’ll have to be an early pick unless they want to miss out.
the #6 and #7 OL guys need to be able to step into an NFL-level firefight at a moments notice at at least two positions (and preferably three). That’s a huge task to ask of a rookie..which is why those spots usually go to vets (e.g. Lem & Bailey last year)
Rob if healthy and they can get them cheap ie $1.5-$2 mil APY what do you think of bringing in Beatty to compete for a tackle spot and Wisnewski at C/G. They both might be the type of cheap veteran free agents JS seems to like late in free agency to add depth and competition or are Sowell and Webb basically that.
Not overly keen. Doubt they go the veteran route. Wiz seems like a guy fans like more than the teams. Would rather them use the draft.
Off season prediction for 2016 season. Frank Clark will get more sacks in 2016 than any prospect drafted this year! I think he will actually be an improvement as a pass rusher to Irvin and could get 8-10 sacks.
I approve this message!
What’s the over-under? Nine?!
If so, I say “under”.
@AdamSchefter: And now the Browns say they have signed QB Robert Griffin III. It’s going to be a 2-year deal.
Interesting. What does this do to the draft?
I personally don’t think it changes anything. They still go franchise QB at 2, but have an upside backup to give them options and/or time to ease the rook
It’s a nice insurance if someone trades up to #1 and steals the QB they’ve got their eye on.
Their board might be Wentz at #1 then Ramsey, Jack, Bosa etc.
I think they still go QB early. If not at #2 maybe they would be a trade partner for the Hawks if they wanted to move back into Rd #1 and take Paxton Lynch at #26.
It’s possible Trev but they went this route previously (trading back into the 1st) for both Weeden and Manziel. Didn’t work out too well taking the “best of the rest” options. I would suspect this new regime is fully aware this is the time to take the guy they want at the top of the draft
They paid a lot of money for him:
@RapSheet: The #Browns signed RGIII to a 2-year deal worth $15M, source said. He gets 6.75M guaranteed. Large investment.
Years ago, when the cap was smaller, Seattle paid 4 million a year to T-Jack. We paid Flynn even more before trading him. Hell, we paid Clipboard Jesus millions to suck and grab his sore butt like the pansy he is! Chase Daniel is getting 7 million a year to likely be a backup. Its not too much money, it certainly wont cripple the Browns Cap–they have lots of room now–so its really not much of a risk or all that much money.
I think the Browns are making an immense mistake if they get a QB at 2. They already have a QB stopgap/competition in RGIII. They could get another one in McCown to take to camp. If you draft a QB at two, you run a high risk of getting a bust which would be absolutely crippling – you miss out on some of the best defensive players in the draft like Ramsey, Bosa or Myles Jack. And you could absolutely trade down to a QB needy-team, pick up a beavy of picks and still get an amazing player. I see a great opportunity for the Browns here with lots of options – none of which involve taking a QB.
Agreed. Lots of opportunities for the Brownies.
Heh, lots of opportunities to screw it up you mean…lol! Poor Browns, its not nice to make fun of them; they have been inept for so long…
I believe it was C Davis (ESPN) who had Wentz falling to the Niners in his latest mock. I could see that happening now…
I’ve been convinced without a doubt the hawks would go Tackle at 26…Ifedi, Spriggs, etc.
After listening to PC talk about their current tackles GG/Webb, I’m starting to wonder if we will see Bullard at 26, maybe even after a slight trade back & McGovern at 56 with a possible trade up if they feel it necessary. I think they might view it similar to last year’s two picks of Clark and Lockett.
It would give them another Bennett type to add to the interior line and rush, and secure the guy they want to add to the OL in a Guard/Center (and emergency tackle) capacity. If they were to trade back in 1, it would help acquire ammo to use if necessary to secure McGovern.
It would still leave one of your 3rds, or possibly both, to target whoever they want…Ervin, another OL, etc.
Whatever their plans, they were going to speak glowingly about the guys on the roster.
DL will be in play at #26 — but nothing we heard this week is a hint to what they’ll do in the draft.
I understand completely…I’m fully aware of positive carroll-speak. It mostly just got me thinking that perhaps they really do have their tackle plan in place and might attack it differently.
I haven’t seen anything to suggest SEA are interested in Spriggs. But they’ve been reported to have interest in Ifedi.
Even if PC was speaking the absolute truth about Webb starting at RT (which flies directly in the face of “always compete”), SEA could still draft Ifedi to start at LG. Actually, they’d draft him to compete with Webb at both RT and LG.
Selecting an OT in R1 this year isn’t just about starting that prospect at OT. It’s about improving the OL wherever they can.
Again, I’m not arguing they won’t. In fact I think they will go Oline at 1 so I agree with what you’re saying. My mind has been closed to other possibilities as I just didn’t see any way they would do different. But today was the first time I allowed for another possibility in my mind. I’m just playing with the puzzle pieces like we all are.
and not to mention that its very reare that so many quality T’s should be available.
*rare
Pete Carol comments the other day lead me to believe that Gilliam will be moved to LT and that every other position is open for competition. McGovern I know played T and G but I have not heard that he’s played C. I believe McGovern and Webb will compete for LG or RT spot while Glowinski takes the RG spot. I think Terry Poole will be backup for right side.
McGovern can play C. He worked out as a C yesterday at Mizzou’s pro day.
No one had Ty Sambrailo as a C prospect, until Seattle worked him out as one.
Based on the latest FA movement and Carroll’s comments, I’ve got this gut feeling that Center will be the first position on the O-line to be addressed. It seems like in the later rounds they will add some developmental players. Can hardly wait!!!
Off season prediction #2 Gary Gillam will struggle a little out of the gate but by mid season everyone will understand why Russel Okung was allowed to walk. Then by the end of 2017 he will be a pro bowl level LT.
Pro bowl? I don’t know… Above average starter? I hope so…
Trevor, I like your “Bold Prediction #2”. Have to agree w/ nichansen01 though. However, I do believe that down the road Gilliam could very well be Pro Bowler.
Iowa WR Tevaun Smith pro day results:
6’1″ 205lbs, 4.33 40yd, 38″ VJ, 122″ BJ, 3.94 SS.
McShay latest mock.
Hawks:
1st Robinson (DT)
2nd Henry (RB)
If that were to happen, as long as we get a G/T and C in the 3rd, that would work for me.
3rd Glasglow
3rd Tretola
I’d run to the podium for Henry in the 2nd…
Absolutely. Henry in the 2nd is a get!
Being able to move the chains in the 4th Q, when everyone knows the run is coming. This was a weakness for Seattle last year. Henry’s ability to run games out won him the Heisman and Bama the title.
yup..I don’t think he makes it past Minnesota in the 2nd though (if he gets that far)…
Minnesota is being connected to Henry fairly often. Personally I don’t see it with AP and McKinnon already in place. AP hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down.
Thought this was interesting FWIW https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2705131/Composite-NFL-Draft-Rankings-Post-Super-Bowl.pdf
Rob or anyone else for that matter, if the following guys were available @ #26 which would you take and how would you grade each of them compared to one another?
Conklin, Coleman, Decker, Ifedi?
Coleman for me all day long if his medical check out. Would be ideal RT in our system and by far the nastiest of the Group. Conklin a close 2nd but I think he will be long gone.
You know who is still out there – Geoff Schwartz. He is a guard who can also play RT. I figured he’d be signed by now, but he isn’t. That bodes well for the Seahawks. If his price comes down to around $2.5 – $3m, the Seahawks could swoop him. He is 6’6″ 340 pounds. Ideal LG. That would free us up to draft defense in round one.
I accidentally mixed up Geoff with his brother Mitchell. Oops! I don’t know how good Geoff is – don’t even know if this is a discussion worth having. But if someone has knowledge about him, carry on.
I have a feeling they’re done with FA for the OL.
Don’t know anything about him as a player but there was an interesting article/interview with him yesterday on the ESPN website about what it’s like to be a veteran free agent w/out a team at this point in the year…thought it provided an interesting perspective from the players pov.
@RobRang: Washington OLB Travis Feeney underwent surgery to repair a sports hernia and won’t participate at March 31 Pro Day
Interesting that Feeney waited until now to get the procedure done. His biggest weaknesses haven’t been addressed positively in the draft process-health and strength.
Sorry Rob, there is no way Feeney goes in R2.
You mean like there was no chance Kikaha would, due to injuries?
Yes. I know what you are saying, but the hx of injuries is alarming.
Kikaha’s injury question marks were about his knees. He played 2 highly productive seasons after his last acl tear. Feeney has had multiple shoulder surgeries and now is out following sports hernia surgery. He hasn’t shown much of a history staying healthy, like Kikaha did. The draft should tell us how Feeney checks out medically. He’s a day 2 athlete no doubt, but my guess is he slides into day 3. It’ll be interesting to see.
@nfldraftscout: #Houston LB Elandon Roberts Pro Day results:
5-11 234
Bench – 25
Vertical – 37
40 – 4.51/4.49
Broad -9’9/10.0
You beat me to it. Guess I took at least 12 minutes to read all the comments.
No worries that’s the nature of blogversations.
According to Zierlein, he’s a high character guy who loves to hit but not very athletic, particularly agility-wise:
“Not a natural knee bender. Struggles badly with change of direction. Slow to accelerate when asked to stop and start. Below average speed and won’t win many races to the edge. Lacks athletic talent to cover in space. Poor ball skills. Missed numerous interception opportunities due to poor hands.”
Interesting no agility drill results posted.
@dpbrugler: Solid numbers for RB Kenneth Farrow (5094, 219) at #Houston pro day: 4.61 40-yd dash, 10’02” broad, 38″ vert.
#Houston LB Elandon Roberts Pro Day results:
5-11 234
Bench – 25
Vertical – 37
40 – 4.51/4.49
Broad -9’9/10.0
18 tackles!? 1 sack. 1 int. Check it:
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/elandon-roberts-vs-memphis-2015/
Think Vol12? was on this guy during the season. Looks like he could battle to start at WILL(with KJ playing SAM in base) and backup MLB. Big time production+great athlete+team captain=Seahawk target. The list of day 3 LB’s who fit our profile grows: Feeney, Brown, Roberts, Overton…others?
Oregon’s Joe Walker, L’ville’s James Burgess, N. Illinois’ Perez Ford, Tulane’s Royce LaFrance,
Elandon Roberts reminds me of Allan Bradford.
I mentioned him, but it was actually Houston EDGE Tyus Bowser that I really liked. He came back for his senior year.
Lindenwood WR Greg Coble. What a freak!
@ChrisShanafelt: Pro-day #s for Lindenwood WR Greg Coble:
Height: 6’0
Weight: 189.8
40: 4.46
Vertical: 43
Broad Jump: 10’1″
Hand: 9 3/8
Wing: 77in,
Arm: 33.5
@ChrisShanafelt: Teams that met with WR Greg Coble afterwards include: Colts, Dolphins, Chiefs, Packers, Rams, Bills, Seahawks, Lions, Browns, & Steelers.
@ChrisShanafelt: Coble had a really strong showing in the positional drills as well. Caught everything thrown his way.
Pauline:
“Offensive lineman Joseph Haeg also helped himself today. He looked terrific in drills, and most feel he’s sealed himself as a top-100 pick. Teams love Haeg’s versatility, and though most have penciled him in as a right tackle or guard, the consensus opinion is other than center, Haeg can line up at any spot on the offensive line.”
Nice.
Also read that PC and JS like this DT class. Saying that there’s more draftable prospects at that spot then they can remember.
Texas DT Hassan Ridgeway as a 1st rounder? Is this BR’s opinion or what he’s hearing?
What do you guys think about Dan Vitale from Northwestern? Haven’t seen/heard much buzz on him but I couldn’t help but notice his Sparq scores were not that far off of Derrick Henry from Bama!
Derrick Henry 6’2.5″ 247lbs 4.54 40 yard dash with a 1.60 10 yard split
Dan Vitale. 6’0.7″ 239lbs 4.60 40 yard dash with a 1.61 10 yard split
Vitale beat Henry in all the agility drills as well as the vertical jump, came damn near to beating Henry in the broad jump, and smoked Henry in the bench with 30 reps!!! That’s ridiculous by the way. A 240 pounder FB lifting with offensive linemen?!? On paper this dude is a hawk, any opinions of film that anyone has noticed? Sounds like he is worth a 5th round pick. Thoughts?
Vitale more of an athlete than a football player IMO.
I watched his highlight real and the dude can definetely catch the football! I was pretty impressed, I think he could be a cool late round project. I haven’t watched a ton of film on him but he looked explosive as hell with the ball in his hands and it would be an interesting wild card for the offense if they weren’t able to draft Tyler Ervin or whichever back they are targeting and I bet he would be a monster on special teams
@nfldraftscout: Heard from one team that Hassan Ridgeway may get into Rd 1 after his pro day. Teams love his potential as an every down DL
Okay so I used the Composite big board made up collectively of each big board available. I also cancelled out my actual RD1 pick and started by picks with RD2 to gain a much more accurate mock draft. The mindset going into it I decided to go against “conventional wisdom” and what I myself and most of us on SDB generally view as the approach the Hawks will take. Thought the end result was more than satisfying, I must admit I really enjoyed playing devils advocate against myself and the notion that we would take a OT @ #26(even though that’s still firmly what I believe to be true). Here’s what I came up with as things unfolded…
26: R1P26
JONATHAN BULLARD
56: R2P25
CHARLES TAPPER
90: R3P27
CONNOR MCGOVERN
98: R3P35
GRAHAM GLASGOW
125: R4P26
RASHARD ROBINSON
172: R5P32
TYLER ERVIN
216: R6P40
FAHN COOPER
226: R7P4
TRAVIS FEENEY
248: R7P26
STEPHANE NEMBOT
UDFA
D.J. FOSTER
TORIAN WHITE
MICHAEL THOMAS
The UDFA list is based off of players that were remaining after the smoke cleared.
Nice work Troy!
Not sure if they would be available but I like most of the picks for sure.
Maybe, maybe not. That’s not the point. In no way am I delusional, I realize some guys will go earlier than expected and on the flip side some prospects will fall later than most predict. That’s exactly why I used a composite big board and took away my 1st RD pick bumping each pick after that a round earlier to help paint an accurate portrait of what COULD happen. I don’t think anyone can say with 100% certainty that any one player will be on hand at any particular pick. Its the NFL Draft brotha! LOL that being said I put forth my best effort and attempt to be as unbiased and objective as imaginable. I made the playing field as even as humanly possible with the resources available. Above all else Trevor the focus of this exercise wasn’t to necessarily “correctly pick” each player to each round but instead to think outside the box, to explore realistic options depending on the way the board falls to us in each RD. Most importantly I felt it was critical to challenge myself to stop forcing an OT @ #26 just because it’s the general consensus that that’s how things will play out. I wanted to shift my attention towards a different train of thought.
Troy: It would great if the draft fell that way. But I don’t see it being logical to fall that way.
Rob, I’ve said it before, but I will say it again… “I LOVE SDB!” (Maybe we should get bumper stickers made up!)
Just got back from business trip in eastern Oh Canada. Went through Buffalo AP both times. I can see why Marshawn was out of place there. A kid growing up in the hood of Oakland, college ball at Cal, then the outpost of Buffalo! Brutal!
BTW; I already miss the “Beast”! Truly one of the most enjoyable players ever to watch.
GO HAWKS! GO SDB!
Thanks for the kind words 503
Rob any idea when Shon Coleman has his private workout planned for? Really hope the Hawks are there. He is still my favourite OL in this draft after Tunsil.
Last year I was banging the table for Donovan Smith from Penn St. He was Gilliams old room mate and I thought he would have been the perfect guy to groom for RT when Okung walked. We traded for Graham and Smith went earlier that expected so we missed on him unfortunately. He went on to have a very good year for TB.
I mention this because Coleman is a much better prospect IMO. He is just as athletic and much nastier. If we took him we could have bookend tackles for the next 3-4 years minimum. Coleman would be the perfect RT in our run focused system and Webb could move the LG.
Really hope Coleman is the pick at 26!
Not heard anything on Coleman. Anyone else?