The Seahawks and Raiders have in fact agreed to draft-pick compensation on a tentative trade to send Matt Flynn to Oakland. Deal’s close.
— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) March 29, 2013
So it appears the Matt Flynn era (can we call it an ‘era’?) is coming to a close. Various reports (see above) have a deal with Oakland in the works. It all rests on Carson Palmer now. He is scheduled to take up $15m against the cap this year. Cutting him will save $6m. Inheriting Flynn’s contract via trade will cost the Raiders $5.25m. So it makes sense that they’d try one last time to get Palmer to negotiate before making a move. If he refuses, they have little option but to cut him.
The Raiders can’t carry Palmer — who has zero shot to succeed on that team — at $15m. Trading for Flynn gives them a veteran stop-gap for two years while they rebuild. Unfortunately for Flynn, he couldn’t be walking into a worse situation. Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III would struggle to lift this ailing franchise.
Compensation remains unknown, although don’t get your hopes up. If the trade is completed, it won’t be a blockbuster. Oakland went into the 2012 draft with no picks in the first four rounds. They were given compensatory picks in round three and four, otherwise new GM Reggie McKenzie would’ve been waiting until round five to start a titanic rebuild. He’s already without a second rounder this year as part of the Palmer trade, so he’s not going to be giving up more high picks.
I suspect the most likely scenario is a late rounder as we saw with Tarvaris Jackson last year, a conditional pick in 2014 based on performance or a flipping of picks. For example — Seattle and Oakland swap fourth rounders.
This was an interesting piece by Yahoo’s Jason Cole, which perhaps explains why demand for Flynn’s services has been lukewarm since he left Green Bay. Cole: “McKenzie (Oakland GM), a former Packers executive, knows Flynn well from his days as a backup in Green Bay. However, the scouting report among former Packers executives is that Flynn’s lack of arm strength will eventually be exposed by opposing teams.”
What about a replacement in Seattle? For me, you just draft a guy. It’s what most teams do. New Orleans had UDFA Chase Daniels backing up Drew Brees until he recently switched to Kansas City. Green Bay had 7th rounder Matt Flynn backing up Aaron Rodgers, and then went with UDFA Graham Harrell. New England had 7th rounder Matt Cassel, then UDFA Brian Hoyer and now third round pick Ryan Mallett backing up Tom Brady. For years Peyton Manning was backed up in Indianapolis by 6th rounder Jim Sorgi.
Seattle might as well do the same.
There are quarterbacks in this class worth a look in the later rounds or in UDFA. Sean Renfree, Colby Cameron, Zach Dysert, Alex Carder, B.J. Daniels. They could go for their own version of Mallett in round three if Tyler Bray is still on the board. Let’s also remember that John Schneider was part of a Green Bay front office that drafted Brian Brohm in round two despite having Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers on the roster already. So don’t rule out a quarterback being taken at #56. The cost per year would be between $600k-1.2m over four years. Essentially, great value with the upside of a possible Kevin Kolb-type trade down the line.
It’s safe to assume they’ll have an open competition in camp for the backup role. This could include a couple of rookies and a veteran on the minimum salary. Tyler Thigpen could be a good shout — a personal favourite after I saw him live for Kansas City in 2008.
If or when Flynn is traded, it’ll be a relief to have a situation where we aren’t talking about the backup quarterback any more. Two years of chatter about Charlie Whitehurst followed by a year of Matt Flynn is enough. The New Orleans media and fans never gave this much attention to Chase Daniels. Roll on the day where Seattle’s backup is simply the guy who models the latest range of caps and doesn’t earn a relative fortune to hold a clipboard.
Update
It appears the Raiders want Flynn to take a pay cut. As the Tweet below kind of spells out, I wouldn’t be optimistic about any relatively high picks being involved here.
Matt Flynn is set to make about same $ as Matt Hasselbeck. Raiders want Flynn to take pay cut. Shows how they see him.
— gregg rosenthal (@greggrosenthal) March 29, 2013
Further proof that it’s nigh on impossible to accurately prognosticate this off season, and nothing should shock us.
Details still yet to be released but according to Danny O’Neil SEA will get one of OAK’s picks in 2014.
Also, best of luck to Flynn. A quality person for sure.
Thanks CHawk Talker Eric,
I was just about to ask, does OAK even have any draft picks this year to deal?
I’d imagine you start at a 4th and work your way up based on playing time and performance benchmarks?
My best guess is a conditional 2014. Something like a R5 that could be a R4.
i predict it will be R4 in the least and up to R2 based on performance incentives. That seems to be the market for a tweener back up qb…ie…one who can become a matt schaub type in the league. I think that the seattle front office has stood firm on Flynn’s market, and that market is comparable to the Whitehurst trade they made a couple of years back. It is unlikely to see Flynn hit on some of those incentives with the Raiders… and move the compensation up, but it’s not impossible when you play the chiefs and chargers twice a year.
I was hoping they would swap 3rd’s this year, sounds like that won’t happen. Hoping for a 4th with conditional 3rd next year.
Flynn to Raiders for a 2013 pick and a conditional 2014 pick
@DConnollyNFL – Confirming QB Matt Flynn is being traded to the #Raiders draft compensation to include 2013 pick and 2014 conditional #NFL #Seahawks
I don’t think the trade is crazy. I kindia thought it would happen. I’m was pretty sure it was just a matter of time. So now its time to reserve a draft spot for a backup QB or look into the FA market. Vince Young wouldn’t be a bad fit but how much would it cost us, surely not 3.25 million. I know we won’t get the Raiders 5th round pick as we already have it. HeHe
I was just thinking VY as a T-Jax kind of option, where if RW gets hurt you just go full-on read option and screen passes. Because right now the veteran market is pretty tapped unless the FO fancies Ryan Fitzpatrick (assuming Palmer goes to AZ).
It would be HYSTERICAL if Seattle got into the Carson Palmer game just to bid up the price for AZ.
I should say, VY as a T-Jax (as his ceiling) option…
Fitzpatrick signed with Tennessee to backup Locker
Also further proof that nigh on is a cool expression.
btw, I’m not sure it’s an expression, or what it means.
So who will they bring in to back up Wilson? I’m thinking Vince Young. From what I have read he had a good “pro day” at Texas and seems excited to be part of a team. Hopefully he has matured a bit. He’s got the strong arm and athletic ability to fit Seattle’s offence. Plus Pete has history with the guy, I can just hear his interview quotes about Vince now….. I would take him over any of the other free agent QB who is available now. I could still see Seattle picking up a mid to late round prospect but not as a second string guy, more as a project in the Portis mold.
Reposted from Kip’s JBanks article:
It’s gotta be a short list, and I’ll bet that Vince Young is not only on it, he’s probably pretty high up. His problems in the NFL have everything to do with work ethic and maturity, not ability. If ever there was a coach and a program that could deal with this stuff, surely it’s PC and the ‘Hawks.
It wouldn’t be a long term solution because I don’t think Young’s ego would let him remain a perennial backup. However, I do think he would be willing to backup RW for at least 1, if not 2, seasons. Certainly enough time for RW’s work ethic to rub off on him.
Then again, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if JSPC use 2 of their late RD picks (and/or an UDFA signing) on QBs and let them comp it out for the backup spot.
They’ve had several chances to pick up VY and repeatedly passed. I doubt he’s high on their radar.
Since his recent performance at TX’s pro day?
That’s news to me.
It’s pretty common for QBs to look awesome at their pro days
Only it wasn’t his pro day. His pro day was back in 2006. It’s pretty uncommon for for “has-been” QBs to look awesome on any day, let alone one that comes about 7 years after their pro day.
Moreover, the several chances SEA had to pick up Young that ChavaC referred to all came before SEA was without a backup QB (assuming the trade for Flynn actually goes through).
They came when we were desperate for competition at the QB position. If they didn’t believe he was worth bringing in to compete with guys like TJack/Whitehurst/Flynn, why would they ever consider him now?
Pretty much the only times SEA has had a chance at Young and passed was last year (2012) and the first half of 2011. Prior to then he was with TEN from draft day 2006 until they released him in 7/2011.
You would be correct in saying that SEA could have given Young a shot in the first half of 2011 – after all, he’d essentially been cut from TEN in January, even though he wasn’t officially released until July (at which point he was promptly signed by PHI). But I’d argue that SEA’s decision to go with TJack instead of Young at that time had a lot to do with Bevell and his familiarity with TJack from MIN, and also the combination of Young’s pretty crappy attitude/reputation from his days with TEN and him thinking he was worth more $$ than SEA would’ve been willing to pay for someone just to come in and compete for a roster spot (let alone as a starter).
As for passing on him in 2012 and going with Flynn instead – SEA was looking for a franchise QB last year, and unless they were willing to trade ahead of MIA to get Tannehill, they had to find one through trade or FA (plus, if PC is telling the truth, he had already pegged RW as a draft day target by then). And given VY’s performance and attitude problems, nobody was going to mistake him for a franchise QB.
But those were different days, and SEA has different needs now. They’re not looking for a franchise QB, or even a starting QB. They need a backup to RW. Preferably someone with a similar skill set. Plus, it appears that Young isn’t the same problem player he was a couple of years ago when SEA could have taken a chance on him instead of TJack. Aside from looking pretty sharp in his recent workout, VY knows he’s not going to get the kind of $$ now that he once thought he was worth. If he’s willing to sign for the kind of money traditionally offered to someone in his position, that makes him all the more attractive.
In the end, it’s not worth arguing over with you ChavaC. I’d be cautiously optimistic if SEA gives him a chance to back up RW. But if they don’t, I’m just as happy waiting to see who they draft or sign as an UDFA to comp it out for the 2nd QB spot.
Albert Breer is somehow in the future…8:24 PM on March 29 hasn’t happened yet
It has in Europe, where I am based
Oh really? Never knew that! I always just assumed you were based out of Seattle.
I hope that Flynn can show the Raiders that he will be worth holding onto. I still think he will be a good QB given his chance. I wish him the best of luck!
We could bring in VY for a look see for a year and draft B.J. Daniels with late 7th.
I assume this is going to be a move that is more about rewarding Flynn for being a team player last year. Just like releasing Washington rather than trading him for a 7th. Releasing Flynn would go way too far but taking a less than ideal trade so he can start somewhere else hopefully reflects well on the Hawks in the eyes of potential free agents.
On another subject, what is the word on Jeff Tuel from WSU? Before the injuries and change of systems he was pretty highly thought of. He seems to be pretty mobile too. Does he have a shot at getting drafted or are the injury concerns to much? If he checks out physically he might be a good fit in Seattle.
I think Tuel will struggle to get a shot in the NFL, unfortunately.
I genuinely think this is a franchise that is hunting for value with contracts, rewarding performers. Flynn’s contract was anti-competition (nobody would beat him out as a backup on that salary), they weren’t getting value for money (one of the highest paid players on roster, and not contributing) and they really need a backup that at least has some similarity to Wilson in terms of a skill set. I think the intention was always to move him. It’s just taken a little time.
Rob nailed it here. I remember Pete Carroll on Brock and Salk sometime before last season (I believe in the offseason though I might be wrong there) talking about Tim Tebow. A comment Pete said struck me. He admired what Denver did with him but he said his concern would be what do you do if he gets hurt. He said something about how hard it would be to have continuity with the offense tailored to a special player. While I know that the read option is just a wrinkle for the offense (though a pretty potent and important one the last four or five games of the season), from that comment I’d assume that he’d prefer a backup qb that is similar to Russell’s skill set. Or a couple of them battling it out to hold the clipboard. Then again, maybe Pete and John go full compete forever and get Matt Barkley or someone to push Russ. Doubtful with other needs, but I wouldn’t put it past these two.
I think Tuel could be the perfect backup to RW#3. Seattle would be looking to draft Tuel late. Seattle cold use a 6th or 7th round pick to get him, he would fit the back up role at least financially. We have 4, 7th round picks, Matt Flynn was a former 7th round pick. Jeff Tuel is rated in the 7th round, so if he checks out physically, it could be possible. Jeff Tuel looks good on film, good pocket awareness, decent arm strength, 4.6 speed, and played in the Pac 12, so Carroll should know of him. I like him better for the hawks than Daniels. TueI is a much better pure QB than BJ Daniels is. I would support a pick of Tuel fully, late in the draft, form about the 6th round on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg74nl5oSLo
I just went back and watched some Tuel highlights on YouTube and if he is healthy, his skill set seems to be a good match for Seattle. Very good moving in the pocket, buying time with his feet. A lot like Wilson he spins out of the grasp of the D and keeps his eyes down field while rolling out left and right. Not the threat running that Wilson is but still above average, getting upfield quickly. Seems to be at his best when throwing on the run. His arm strength isn’t quite as good as Wilson but is decent and much better than Flynn. Another thing he has in common with Wilson is his knack for putting some air under the ball and putting it where his reciever has a chance to make a play. I hope the Seahawks do take a shot on him in the 7th or as a free agent and see what he can do in camp. Ideally they draft 1 QB, sign 1 rookie FA and 1 younger veteran and let them battle it out.
There isn’t another Russell Wilson coming out in this draft. Similar skillsets are irrelevant. You want a QB that can manage an offense and throw an accurate ball. The FO is not going to be looking for QBs that can play like Russell Wilson because if they were that easy to find, there would be a ton of them in the NFL. Russell is a unique player. A player that is no more easy to find than Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or any of the other great QBs. A QB that can scramble and throw like Wilson is an extreme outlier. I haven’t seen another QB in the NFL right now that can do it.
RG3 is pretty much a running QB with more accuracy than Vick. Vick is a runner. Colin K is a runner. Andrew Luck a pocket passer as is Drew Brees. Russell Wilson is a bonafide crazy legs scrambling QB that can improvise on the move unlike any QB since the days of Fran Tarkenton or Steve Young.
I doubt the FO spends much time trying to draft a poor man’s Wilson and instead focuses on drafting a QB that can do the job no matter how he gets it done.
No more RW’s, but I disagree. I think we are looking for a player with similar attributes…accuracy, arm strength and some mobility to buy some time. The kid in the video displayed those attributes. I like him as a possibility late!
Tuel seems to throw an accurate ball. Looks like good backup material at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg74nl5oSLo
I think you are wrong. Carroll has said several times that they would like a back up QB with similar skills as Wilson. Of course they aren’t going to find someone with equal skills. He’d be a first rounder. They are looking for a back up. Someone with potential that they think they can bring out. No one suggested finding someone who can replace Wilson. It’s absurd to even consider that. They need someone who can come in for half a game or so and not screw things up. Hopefully be able to run the same offensive plays Wilson does. If they are tailoring the entire offense around the man, scheme and other players, it makes sense to find somebody who can do the same things to a lesser degree.
With your logic they should take Mike Glennon and have an entirely different offensive scheme ready for him and the rest of the offense. Or maybe they should just have a QB less mobile than Carroll try some bootlegs and play action passes?
Rob, what do you think about taking Mike Glennon with no. 56? He’s got the NC State connection with RW3 and NC State is where RW3 got his west coast offense background from.
Not totally against it. It would depend on who else is available.
I don’t think Glennon will be there at #56, but even if he was I don’t think the ‘Hawks would do it.
Glennon is one of the least mobile QB’s out there. Not saying the backup HAS to be as fast or agile as RW, but so far every single QB this FO has brought in (outside of the soon to be traded Matt Flynn) has had above average mobility on their resume. I’m not Rob, but personally I just don’t see it.
Rob or Kip! I heard that a 34 year old Tony Romo just got 6-year, $108 million dollar contract. If Russell Wilson does as predicted in the future and doesn’t get hurt, how much much over an 8 year contract should we expect him to get? $160 million?
Romo is 32.
33 in 23 days
Jerry Jones is a lousy GM.
Yup, a great owner though. He’s taking Al’s place.
Bring in Seneca Wallace and draft BJ Daniels with a R7 and let them compete for the backup – if Seneca still has the juice left, then you can practice squad Daniels.
I’d be against bringing back Senceca Wallace, personally. After Holmgren left he showed that whatever quarterbacking skills he had learned completely evaporated- he just ran around with the ball in his hands, hoping to find an open guy. That and he ran out of bounds ENTIRELY too much. It’s like he was afraid of ruining his stat line with incompletions…..
I’d rather we just take a shot on an UDFA or late round QB.
And how many teams win the Super Bowl when their starter goes down injury? Infintecimally few. The backup needs to keep the ship afloat, not win the whole thing.
Seneca processes a similar skill set with RW3 and has operated with much less talent around him! Put talent around him and the ship stays afloat just fine for the few games he may be needed. Now consider his very low cap number it would take to sign him and this is big value! BTW I said let him compete with a drafted QB and see where they are – very well could be the drafted QB wins! Just sayin’ Seneca could be a low cost competitive option. That’s all!
There are only 90 offseason roster spots. Absolutely sure this FO would consider Seneca in the 90th spot as a complete waste of resources.
This team wants a backup QB that will either A) be better than Wilson down the road or B) develop into an NFL starter as trade value of compensatory pick value. There is absolutely no reason to invest in Wallace, because there is no hope that he can ever even be one of the top 32 QBs in the league.
If Wallace were starting, I doubt this team wins 8 games.
Agree to disagree! Why in the world would we expect Wallace to start 8 games? Any backup QB on any NFL team is insurance to spot start until the starter returns. I don’t disagree that a rookie QB can and should be groomed for all the reasons you mention – but with Seneca your offense doesn’t have to change during those rare spot starts! You don’t have to dial back the play calling for a rookie who can’t yet wrap his head around the speed of the game! Seneca brings a similar skill set with NFL starting experience to a team that should be competing for the SB Championship not prepping rookie QBs. And he brings all this with bargain basement cap cost! Am I saying Seneca is as talented as RW3 or even as a drafted rookie QB – hell no! But I will cut him some slack that he hasn’t played with a supporting cast like the Hawks have assembled this year. With Seneca on a rare spot start our offense will be run much closer to the full game plan RW3 has – then you could ever roll out with a rookie QB! Even our hero RW3 struggled running this offense at first! I say find the best spot start veteran QB for the cheapest money and go WIN the SB! A rookie QB can learn on the practice squad and not cost us in a game because of his learning curve! You are trying to win SBs not make sure your backup QB could be one of the best 32 in the NFL! I was just presenting a case for a QB that not many remember is available – of the remaining FA vet QBs, Seneca seemed worthy of a mention! Feel free to disagree, but our FO seems to leave no stone unturned – so I doubt very seriously you have any clue what our FO is “absolutely sure” about!
THIS
I cant wait to hear the compensation for this. It is such a wide open possibility as far as the range. Hope it is high picks, but expecting modest trade such as swaping picks.
I am mostly excited to be done with the discussion and his Cap Hit. That a possible cap casualty will bring us anything of value brings a smile to my face.
If it’s 2013 & 2014 compensation, my prediction is:
2013 – 6th round pick
2014 – conditional 4th/5th round pick
I’m thinking:
We swap 3rd’s and get a 6th/5th in 2014, and folks here will be shocked and fired up!
OR
Gain 3rd in 2014 & a late pick or late swap this year. (Gain back the pick lost for Harvin)
Flynn has more value then people think and he’s an important peace that were losing, and were talking about the Raiders.
Either way, I think we will get the value of a 3rd round compensation and maybe a bit more.
And I’ll be happy about it, and knew he could be traded eventually.
The Raiders have new leadership these days. It’s not the same regime with a reputation for bonehead moves.
I think it’s very optimistic to expect anything as high as round three, whether that’s in 2013 or 2014. Again, remember the decimation of Oakland’s draft last year. They aren’t going to do that again for Matt Flynn. The talk is they want him to accept a smaller contract than the $5.25m he earns. That speaks volumes. You don’t ask a QB you want to be a bona fide starter to take a pay cut from $5.25m.
I would highly dispute the suggestion he has more value than people think. Minimal interest last year, and only Oakland showing interest this. Former coaches in Miami and now Jacksonville showing no interest.
Prepare to be disappointed, Hawkfin. I think the trade will show Seattle were just happy to move him off the books. Hope I’m wrong for obvious reasons.
The books are surely very significant.
like I said before, it is great that we are getting anything of value. I am of the group that believes that a 6th this year and a 4th/5th next would be significant based on the success of our FO in the mid to late rounds.
Also as I said I would be very excited if it was more but will not get my hopes up.
Rob,
A couple of extra points to consider. It looks like the Raiders are trading Palmer to Arizona. That actually makes some sense. Palmer re-does his deal and throws to Fitzgerald and plays for somebody other than the Raiders, and the Raiders get some kind of draft compensation in the trade, pick(s) they can use in the Flynn deal.
Second point. You don’t know that Oakland was the only team that showed interest. In fact, we know that the Jags were in discussions as well, and likely the Bills. All we know is that the Raiders won the bid for Flynn’s services.
Finally, about the salary. The Raiders are strapped for cap room. It’s probably not the $5.5mil that has them re-negotiating – more likely, the cap hit for this year. That can be fixed by applying a bonus that gets spread out over the life of the contract without reducing the actual salary.
The point is, lots we don’t know. Getting even 2 draft picks for Flynn is a lot more than you would have thought not long ago (I know – we often debated the issue).
Jacksonville’s interest has since been played down. Reports now suggest it was discussed, then they decided not to do anything. Buffalo wasn’t ever likely to replace Fitzgerald with Flynn IMO and there’s no hard evidence linking them to hard talks. I think they’ll trade up for Geno or pull out a surprise.
There’s also contrasting talk about Arizona. Schefter has played them down, which would mean needing to cut Palmer.
The Jags were clearly in discussions for trading Flynn, along with other teams (so reports go). We don’t know the content of those discussions (didn’t the Jags say something about having done their due diligence on Flynn?) Anyway, compensation was obviously discussed, and Oakland was obviously willing to offer more. To your point, that could still be not much, but there was interest.
Teams pay a lot for starting QBs. Flynn is being traded to Oakland as the starting QB (who else would they have?) Arizona is also desperate for a starting QB. You can’t win football games without them, and if you don’t win football games, GMs and HCs don’t keep their jobs.
The Jags probably figured that wouldn’t be that much better off with Flynn and Gabbert. Arizona and Oakland don’t have anyone remotely ready to start an NFL football game.
So now it comes down to waiting until we hear. No matter what, it’s good news for Seahawk fans. A pick this year and next – way cool.
“One source told The Florida Times-Union on Thursday that Bradley and the Jaguars performed their “due diligence” on Flynn but have “ultimately decided not to pursue a trade” with the Seahawks.
“The Times-Union report bolsters Yahoo! Sports’ Michael Silver’s inside information that the Jaguars have “little inclination” to pursue Flynn.”
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000155203/article/matt-flynn-reportedly-off-jacksonville-jaguars-radar
I doubt this deal goes through. Flynn will undoubtedly take the money and the clip board. Seattle has gone to bat for him. It is time for him to swallow his pride, or go for it.
The delay (or complete ending) of the deal will be Flynn’s decision… and his alone.
I’m sure he’ll enjoy his stay in Seattle one more year.
One other thing you asserted not long ago: that Flynn would fail miserably if he went to Oakland. Now that’s an assertion I won’t argue against. That’s going to be a tough place for any QB to play.
The problem with your assertions concerning Philbin and Bradley is they aren’t pulling the strings. They are first time, no name head coaches that GMs chose. They have next to no power to make the FO do anything they want. It isn’t like Carroll or Andy Reid, who when you hire them, you know they will have a strong hand in FO decisions. Miami was a unique circumstance where the OC was intimately familiar with the QB they planned to take in the draft.
I think Flynn’s value is more a product of bad luck. The guy hit free agency after two catastrophic QB trade failures with Matt Cassel and Kevin Kolb. That mae FOs less likely to take a chance on a no name QB. Heck, I think Andy Reid is insane to trade away what he did to obtain Alex Smith. Only time will tell on that one.
Then Flynn ends up behind one of the best QBs in the league in Green Bay. He comes to Seattle thinking it’s a better situation only to end up behind a QB prodigy in Russell Wilson, the one guy to prove the NFL height rule wrong. Pretty much an unprecedented success because Doug Flutie never had to close to Wilson’s success a a starting NFL QB.
Bad luck for Flynn and us. Market value of backup QBs as viable starters was killed by the Kolb and Cassel failures. Market value for building through the draft went way up because of none other than our own Seattle Seahawks, the Green Bay Packers, San Francisco, Washington, and Indy. Kind of funny how these trends work.
I’ll be happy to get something for Flynn and clear him off the books. I do want to see the guy play. Seems like a real gamer to me, better than Cassel or Kolb. It wouldn’t be the first time a guy with a lesser arm did well in the NFL.
Bad luck indeed. Don’t forget that Flynn’s first crack at free agency just happend to come in a year with arguably the best QB draft class of the last 29 years. I don’t think quite as much about Flynn as most people, but those are some pretty daunting circumstances for anyone to overcome. If in fact he has not resigned himself to a career in the backup role (his willingness to renegotiate his deal will illuminate his priorities) that will be quite commendable.
Raiders 3rd and 4th round picks this year are comp picks, you cannot trade comp picks. Those can’t be on the table.
Wow. If that’s true, they don’t have a 2nd or 5th, so all they can trade is a 6th or 7th. I guess Schneider isn’t the FO guru I thought he was.
Because he might only get a 6th for a backup?
Perspective people. A GM doesn’t lose guru status because he trades Matt Flynn and his $7.25m backup salary for peanuts.
I think if we were to trade Flynn for peanuts, it wouldn’t take this long. Still feel as if they asked for a 2nd round pick. I could see us swapping picks next year, early in the draft.
The future of Carson Palmer and the possible need for Flynn to take a small pay cut is likely the stumbling block rather than the compensation.
I was referring to overall length of time it’s taken to trade Flynn. Going back before Alex Smith was traded til now. Just feel like they were asking for at least a second round pick way back. Flynn has a similar skill set to Smith. Smith had the experience and KC ended up giving two second round picks for him. If the Seahawks were asking for a second round pick, It wouldn’t be out of line for a potential starting QB. The compensation, would be the easy part to work out, you are right on that point, and I agree with you. However, OAK cap is in bad shape. I think they are looking for a leader to step in and understand their circumstances, regardless of compensation on a trade. I think they will offer a 3 year restructured deal with little guaranteed money. Considering he just got 10 million for backing up RW#3 last year, already. This would show that he is willing to sacrifice the money for a starting role, considering they move Palmer. Allowing the Raiders to make future moves this year to churn their roster. Pryor is no Russell Wilson. The Raiders would clear some cap room for this upcoming year at least. Mackenzie will most likely promise the starting role to Flynn the first year, as long as he restructures.
Flynn may not want to go to Oakland either. He doesn’t get a realistic chance to win in Oakland. Just misery. Why take a pay cut for misery? Why not force the team to cut you and sign with who you want to sign with?
Matt Flynn may not want to go to Oakland, you’re right. However, if he wants to b a stating QB in the NFL, this is his best shot. Oakland is looking for a leader, who wants to step in and compete. If he wants to be a back up, then wait and be cut. It’s not going to get easier to get a legit shot at being “the” guy. It’s only a couple years, he should take the opportunity to prove himself as a starter.
Sorry, Rob. I guess the “guru” comment was ill-advised. I’m tired from work and a little grumpy and I still remember trading 2nd rounders and a next years 3rd for Charlie Whitehurst, so I can’t help but feel we didn’t do well in this trade. Still, you are right. The Seahawks will save $3.25M towards the cap and they did get some compensation which is more than they would have gotten if they had just cut him. If I recall, some of the pundits were predicting that they would do just that. Anyway, you have a good night.
Likewise, Chris. And I understand the grumpy/work thing. I’ve been in an eternal grumpy mood since the day I left university…
And I thought I was the only one…
That “thing” we are all chasing… does it exist?
not true. They have the original picks from the 3rd and 4th round this year. #66 (4th in the 3rd round) and #100 (3rd in the 4th round). It is true that you cannot trade comp picks, but the picks that Rob mentioned in the article, were 2012 Compensatory picks that allowed them to pick before the 5th round last year, not 2013 draft picks.
Where you getting this from? Only comp picks Oakland received this year is a 6th round pick.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000151670/article/nfl-awards-32-compensatory-draft-picks-to-16-teams
I was thinking a swap of 6th and a conditional 3 or 4 in 2014. After all we gave ours 3rd away. Then I like to see Flynn show them that he can play and our comp pick goes up.
no comp pick for a trade
I should have said conditional pick for 2014. If Flynn starts 16 games for them next year we get a higher pick.
ok, this is certainly what the 3rd or fourth conditional pick would be for. Just wanted to make sure.
Rob:
I hope you’re wrong as that seems like small compensation for a back-up QB who would almost insure us of successful run this season even if Russell were injured. Any cap savings the Seahawks would realize by trading Flynn would be lessened by having to sign a free agent replacement. Certainly, the FO can’t possibly believe that they can replace Flynn with a QB picked in the 6th round? Would you be comfortable with that situation?
I’m hoping for a situation more like Hawkfin outlined above. In the swapping picks scenerio, McKenzie can still keep all of his picks (a promise I believe he made at one time) and we would be in a position to draft a viable alternative to Flynn. Win/Win. Anything less will look like a buddy buddy deal between Schneider and McKenzie, at least to me.
I think the insurance aspect is overplayed personally. If we look at who backed up the elite QB’s in the NFL last year, I think we’ll see it’s not something we need to worry about too much.
Yeah, I read your article and agree with you for the most part. It’s just that Schneider said he was comfortable with the status quo and wouldn’t trade Flynn unless the deal was too good to pass up. Was a 6th rounder all it took? Really?
I think there was a lot of ‘leverage’ being used in that particular quote.
Insurance is one of those things that folks look at and say it’s overplayed until they need it and then they say that they are glad to have it.
It seems to me that there have been lots of references on this blog about how important it is to have offensive and defensive line backups, how Turbin will be a great backup to Lynch, how the USC LBs provide backup at the WILL — but when it comes to the QB position, having an insurance backup is “overplayed”. Drafting a “guy” to play QB behind RW sounds like tempting fate to me.
I think we might swap 3rd rounders this year, send Oakland their 5th round pick back this year, and get a compensatory 5th that could be as high as a second next year.
Oakland loses ~15 draft slots in the 3rd this season, moves their 5th round pick from next year to this year (important for a rebuilding roster), and gets a starting QB. Makes great sense for Oakland, and is a good deal for Seattle.
As for the “holdup” about contract in Oakland, I think it’s less about decreasing Flynn’s salary and trying to massage the cap numbers in Oakland (moving salary from year 1 into year 2 and later) and getting Flynn on a slightly longer term contract.
Really hoping for at least a fifth this year and a possible 4th/3rd next. That’s a little steep, but most value dips after the fifth round.
Right there with ya Kenny. I also think it is important to realize how much teams tend to devalue picks that are more than a year away. Everyone is caught up in the, “it’s a win now league” idea, and how can you blame them? Why should a team place a high value on a pick when they might be fired before they ever get a chance to use it?
I sure hope Flynn doesn’t hold this up. He may not want to take a pay cut, but I think he will take what he can get as this may be his only chance to start in 2013. If he wants to start, he knows he will have to negotiate some with the raiders. They are the only ones who have interest enough to send compensation to the Hawks, they are likely to be the team willing to pay him the most. just hope this gets done and Flynn doesn’t actually stop the thing from happening.
Also, him stoping this deal would get him even less market as far as teams go and future pay. Nobody is going to give a top end backup QB a decent contract if they cause a trade to go south. Even elite talent seldom get in the way of trades, let alone average talent.
good points Jon. Another aspect I think might turn off some teams is what it would say about Flynn’s priorites. Refusing to take a pay cut that would net you a starting job sounds like a Charlie Whitehurst kind of move. I don’t think any team wants their starting QB to value money higher than playing time.
If someone offered Manning, Brady or Rodgers double their current salaries to sit on the bench, do you think they would even consider it? Not a chance.
From Ian Rapoport’s twitter:
“I’m hearing, unless something crazy happens, the Flynn-to-Raiders trade won’t be officially consummated today. But 2 sides are nearly there.”
Its not a bad deal for Oakland. I mean they are a mess and I think they use the Seahawks of 2010 as an example. People seem to forget we had 254 transactions of players that 1st year. I don’t think Palmer wants to return and so like us when Matt left we didn’t panic but grab T.J.
1 Raider fan said keep your hands and feet inside the Raider coaster at all times but I think they get someone who wants to start and show what he can do.
I believe Flynn can play, but going to Oakland well another fan said it for me. But can he thrown the deep ball? Oh yeah, never mind, they don’t have anyone to catch it.
Hey, they do have ONE guy to catch it. He may not be a true #1, but Denarius Moore is a pretty good receiver on an absolute train wreck of a team. He can get deep with the best of them; his career 16.2 yards per reception is better than any current Seahawks WR and is only 1 Y/R shy of the 17.2 career mark of the walking go route who goes by the name Mike Wallace.
I’m not sure why I felt the need to come to the defense of a Raiders wide receiver, but there you have it.
Per NFL.com Raiders, have their own 1, 3, and 4th this year.
No they don’t, the 3rd and 4th picks are compensation picks and not tradable (unless that rule changed).
Nevermind, I am wrong, misread their site. Either way I don’t expect to get a 3rd this year. Given that Seattle already has 10 picks this year and few open roster spots I’d almost prefer picks in 2014 and 2015. It would be great to replace the missing 3rd in 2014 (4th round value).
I agree with that, I would prefer additional 2014 picks also
What if we traded them some 1 or 2 late rounders and Flynn for their third or fourth this year?
Matt Flynn surely must realize that Oakland is the final team that will ever believe in him enough to give him a shot at starting. He needs to agree on a salary that will get him there, so he can earn a bigger payday down the road. If he scuttles this deal and forces his way back to Seattle, the steam will be coming out of John and Pete’s ears and who knows what they would do? We need Matt to be gone…for some odd reason, the sports talk guys seem more interesting in him than Russell Wilson. Please can we talk about winning a championship next season?
I think expectations of compensation need to be tempered. The Seahawks don’t have the leverage in this situation, and no matter how savvy PC/JS are, realistically we’re not getting anything higher than a 5th round pick.
Flynn will either ride the pine and leave as a free agent, or the Seahawks have to dump him to free cap room. Other teams know this, and give an offer accordingly. It’s easy to over-value our own players, but it is what it is. The market for Flynn just doesn’t exist like we think it does, and his value has acted accordingly. He is worth no more than a third day pick.
Oakland doesn’t even have a 5th round pick we have it this year already. It would have to be 6th or 7th round in 2013.
John Clayton reported that it while the Raiders were going to give it another shot at getting Palmer to take a pay cut, the secondary delay was trying to broker a trade for Palmer, probably to a team of his choosing and including a new contract for the destination team. This way they could at least recoup a portion of what they will give Seattle for Flynn. Maybe highly unlikely but that is what they were supposedly working on.
I think this move was not deemed as expedient until the bottom dropped out of the pass rush market and they were able to pick up Avril and Bennett. Many believe it was a false claim that they were willing to keep Flynn to try to push up the offers but they were probably willing to keep him on for one more year before they slimmed their remaining cap space. On the other hand, ‘Hawks have been highly aggressive at minimizing the dead cap.
By moving Flynn now, their cap will be free of both Flynn and Washington’s deals in 2014. They will also lose Bennett’s cost and get a drop in Miller’s base rate, and maybe the total cap number will even jump up. This will allow them to focus more on locking in ET, Sherman, and KJ for longer deals. It will be important for them to land Kam this year to set a precedent/example of how they take care of their core although if they can’t get it done it won’t be the end of the world as they’ll get another shot in the offseason. The market was not very rewarding to safety’s this offseason which may or may not make it more likely that a new deal happens for Kam right now.
The market was pretty rewarding to Dashon Goldson.
True, he is the exception as the only DB getting paid this year. Woodson and the others will be getting minimal deals.
There is also a divide between FS and SS where FSs get back edge specialist money while SSs get up the middle linebacker money. In general, throughout the NFL in terms of defensive player contracts, edge players get more money. This leaves SSs the odd men out compared to CBs and FSs.
Absolutely agree with that. I think Kam’s deal will be more reasonable than many people think.
Perhaps JS, in Addition to the Flynn trade is trying to give the Raiders something they need that we have in abundance…draft picks. The Raiders need quantity and we might prefer an upgrade in quality of picks. Seems like an opportunity for JS to work some of his magic!
Gregg Rosenthal at NFL.com is reporting that, in exchange for Flynn, SEA “would acquire a 2013 draft pick and a conditional 2014 selection as part of the deal, if it’s completed.”
He’s further reporting that the primary delay in consummating the deal is Flynn’s salary. He speculates that this might mean OAK doesn’t see Flynn as a true starter, but rather as someone who would compete for the position. He also notes that it’s possible OAK merely is trying to trade Palmer in a last ditch effort to minimize the impact to their cap space, as opposed to releasing him outright.
He does point out that the issue of Flynn’s salary simply could be a matter of cap room – that given how little cap space they have, they just can’t afford to pay Flynn what his contract calls for, and absorb the hit from releasing Palmer.
I’m hoping for a swap of 3rds and a 5th next year with a 4th possible if Flynn plays well. I wouldn’t mind swapping some players as well. I wonder if Cable has anyone over there he would like to get? Do they have any quality DTs laying around Oakland wasting their talent? A swap of 3rds allows Oakland to keep their draft pick and puts us in a much better position to get two quality players.
Haha. I don’t think they have any DT’s laying around, quality or otherwise. If I’m not mistaken they lost/cut at least 75% of their starting D-line from last year.
Oakland will probably be forced to use their #3 in the 1st round pick to replace the DTs they lost.
The Seahawks are having a nice offseason. I love the move for Harvin even though its a risk. Im glad they didnt take Cruz from the Giants instead. They needed to go for it why they have a significant advantage of not paying a QB big money. Dumpling Flynn’s money is a logical move especially if u can reclaim another pick. Going to be a hell of a war in the NFC West .
Happy the Hawks are coming to the Giants this season instead of vice versa
The NFL has made nearly impossible to chase another team’s RFA. For one thing, the signed offer by the RFA counts against the cap for the 10 days the original team has to respond whether they match it or not. For another, even without a poison pill attached, it engenders bad blood between franchises which encourages teams to keep their offers off the table for RFAs. You’d think a team like Baltimore would jump at the chance to parlay their last pick in the first for a young #1 receiver, but all the baggage make it an unattractive process.