Thoughts, reactions, and reaction GIFs after the jump!
This year I reviewed more players for the draft than ever before. I put in more work than last year, and in 2012 I covered 6/10ths of the players that the Seahawks would later draft on the blog. I even called three of the picks during the draft itself in real time (Wagner, Turbin, Toomer). This year, other than nailing the Christine Michael pick at the top, I was left with complete surprise time and time again, including a few players I had never even heard of.
Of course, I’ve learned to accept it when Seattle drafts mystery prospects. I had no idea who KJ Wright, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, Greg Scruggs, or JR Sweezy were, and all of them turned into good picks. Of Seattle’s five selections in rounds six and seven, only Ty Powell was a prospect I had heard of before today.
I won’t hand out any silly draft grades this year, because this draft is all about depth and attempting to mine future starters. It might take many years to get a grasp on how well Seattle did in this draft. What I do feel comfortable with is talking about which picks I liked more than others.
Chris Harper, WR, Kansas State
I’ve talked about a lot of receivers on this blog, but I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned Harper. The reason being, well, I just don’t think he’s that good. Not yet.
I noticed Harper while I was scouting his quarterback, Collin Klein. Harper makes two ugly plays for every impressive one, but he can certainly be an eye catcher with his physical talent. I also knew about Harper because he is a former Duck, and a lot of Oregon fans were sad to see him go. Harper was a quarterback at Oregon before changing positions and schools.
You could certainly make some surface comparisons between Chris Harper and Anquan Boldin. Both have similar size and bulk (6’1″, 230 / 6’1″, 220) Harper is quite a bit faster though, his 4.55/4.50 forty is blistering compared to Boldin’s glacial 4.72. Both are converted quarterbacks that are physical receivers with bulk.
I think that’s where the comparison ends. Boldin was a savvy NFL receiver from day one. Harper struggles with routes, struggles working his way to the ball, and gives up on plays. His tape looks like Jordan Kent’s in comparison to Boldin.
Harper is a “sexy” pick in that he does have enticing upside and provides Seattle with their first true power forward-esque receiver. I don’t want to bash this pick too much, because Harper has the upside to look like a steal in retrospect. That said, there were probably twenty receivers I would have picked there over Harper. This was a loaded receiver class. To think that Seattle had 11 picks in this draft and just walked out with Harper is underwelming, even if they had picked Harper in the 7th it would have felt like a missed opportunity to me. To take him in the 4th feels like adding insult to injury.
That said, Harper’s problems are 100% coachable, and I think in a typical draft, he’d be a solid 4th round pick. I don’t have a problem with the Harper pick so much as I hate the opportunity cost of it. Mark Harrison, to me, is superior to Harper in every way. He’s taller at the same weight, ran a forty time that was .09 faster, had longer arms and better measurables almost across the board. And he had good tape, whereas Harper’s is full of glaring problems that need fixing. Mark Harrison went undrafted. I don’t get it.
Obviously, I hope Seattle coaches Harper up and gets the most out of him. His upside might be higher than Anquan Boldin’s, even if I think it’s highly unlikely he achieves it.
Now, don’t take my opinion as gospel. The consensus view on Harper is a positive one. NFL Draft Scout ranked Harper 122nd overall on their big board, and Seattle drafted him 123rd overall. It looks like Harper was Seattle’s guy, and he probably wouldn’t have made it to the 7th round.
I argued that Jordan Hill was a reach; I felt Seattle could get him later. And I like Jordan Hill. I don’t think that’s the case with Harper. If you were a team that wanted Harper, the late 4th was a good place to target him.
In a way, this pick reminds me a little of the Jaye Howard pick last year, which was also in the 4th round. That was probably my least favorite pick in the 2012 draft for Seattle, but I appreciated his upside while pointing out that he had major issues to deal with and was a long shot to hit his potential. I didn’t like that pick, but I didn’t think it was a reach. The “value” made sense, it just wasn’t a pick I would have made. Similar story here.
I know my tone regarding this pick is negative, but now that he’s a Seahawk and I’ve said my piece about his risk and the opportunity cost, I’m highly interested to see how he progresses the next couple seasons. In many ways, Harper and Seattle are a great fit for one another. Harper brings a whole new type of receiver to Seattle’s receiver group and Harper gets to go to a team that can afford to redshirt him a couple years while he learns his craft.
Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama
Jesse Williams may be from Australia, but the Alabama is strong in this one. I don’t know what I like more: the chubby teddy bear looks juxtaposed with his WWE styled intensity and facepaint, his glorious mullet-hawk, or that ten members of his family got tattoos in his honor after Alabama’s 2011 National Championship. He kind of looks like a road-warrior version of Felix Hernandez too. All pluses in my book. Jesse Williams would have to do precious little to be my new favorite Seahawk. He’s at a high starting point.
A few months back, Rob sent me a message asking my opinion of Jesse Williams. I told him that I loved Jesse Williams, I just didn’t think he fit what Seattle needed in the second round. Williams is the best run defender in the draft, and adds to that skillset a shocking 4.93 forty time at 323 pounds. In terms of athleticism, there is very little that separates him from last year’s #11 overall pick, Dontari Poe. And Poe didn’t have anywhere near the quality of game performances that Williams did. Poe played for a tiny school most people have never heard of. Williams was a critical part of a team that won multiple national championships out of the SEC.
I had Jesse Williams down as the draft’s #1 nose tackle, and it wasn’t even close. Since nose tackles are considered one of the rarest and most valuable positions in a 3-4 defense, I was shocked to see the draft go on and on without seeing any leave the board. Jesse Williams is a clear first round talent at a position where even second round talents are known to crack the top 15 picks because of need.
Now here’s the really awesome part, at least for Rob and I. I had Seattle taking Christine Michael with their #56 pick in my final mock. Rob had Seattle taking Jesse Williams with that same selection. Seattle traded down, acquired two extra picks, then got their man, Christine Michael. Awesome. Those two extra picks? They were the exact same picks that were packaged to get Jesse Williams. So for the price of one 56th overall pick, Seattle somehow got BOTH of the players Rob and I mocked for them there. Mind. Blown.
So I bet you’re wondering why I was hesitant to draft Williams if I have such a high grade on him and like him so much as a person and player? In a word, Williams is not a natural interior pass rusher, not even on Brandon Mebane’s level. You got a few really great features in the Jesse Williams package, but pass rush isn’t among them. I figured that Seattle wanted a defensive tackle with a balanced skillset; a guy with some pass rush and some run stopping ability. The Jordan Hill pick largely proved that assumption correct. Jesse Williams is awesome, but he’s not a balanced contributor. He’s a specialist. And that lowers him as a priority for a team like Seattle.
In the 5th round though, you’d be just fine with taking a specialist, especially if that specialist has all the tools to take over for Red Bryant down the road if need be. Williams may not be an interior rusher, but that baseline speed will help him when he’s playing on the end.
Red Bryant struggled last season. According to pro-football-focus (and the eyeball test), Bryant was abysmal in the pass rush but surprisingly he was also ranked as being below average as a run stopper. Bryant had a nasty foot injury and I’m sure that played a factor, but Bryant was never a star even in his best season and is on a contract that averages $7 million a season. Bryant’s contract has a nearly no guaranteed money remaining after the 2013 season, and he has a roster bonus due in 2014. In plain english, that means that Seattle will probably trade, restructure, or release Bryant next year unless he proves absolutely indensible next season.
Now Seattle is armed with a quality fallback plan if they are forced to go in a different direction from Bryant next offseason.
Of course, Williams didn’t fall to the early 5th because teams suddenly started hating run stuffers. He fell because of concerns that came up during medical evaluations, specifically regarding the health of his knees. Hopefully that issue ends up being just a scare and nothing more.
This pick also marked a bit of Seahawks history, because it was the first time that John Schneider traded up in an NFL draft (Percy Harvin doesn’t count). When you see a team move up, it’s because they feel a player they have to get is about to leave the board. That they moved up for a player like Williams not only speaks of how highly they regard him, but also how they might view the long term situation with Red Bryant. What made the move so unusual was that Seattle lept ahead of themselves to make the pick, though we’d all understand the reasoning soon enough.
Tharold Simon, CB, LSU
On back to back picks, Seattle made two of the better value selections of the PC/JS era. Tharold Simon might be the only LSU player I’ve scouted this year who’s tape lived up to his draft hype. He has good instincts, breaks fast on the football, is a pest to throw over, and plays with incredible physicality. He’s also shockingly fast for his size.
Only a few other corners in this entire draft were as “Seahawky” as Simon, and they were all long gone by this point. Seattle likes tall corners with speed, physicality, athleticism, and long arms. Simon was tied for the distinction of the combine’s tallest corner (6’2″), while running a 4.48 and having 33″ arms. On tape he bullies receivers much like Brandon Browner does while high pointing for interceptions that most corners would be lucky to get a hand on.
I’m not saying he’s better than some of the guys that went in the first round, but for Seattle’s specific style of secondary, Simon would been a top five corner easily. Perhaps his arrest on Thursday for a dispute with a police officer played a factor. I was surprised to see him escape the 2nd round. Getting him in the 5th was a steal. With Jesse Williams and Tharold Williams both sitting there in the early 5th, you can understand Seattle’s urgency to double down.
Luke Willson, TE, Rice
Back in February when the Vance McDonald hype train starting firing up, I went over to youtube to see what I could find on him. At the time, the best I could find were a few compilations of Rice’s offense. I sat through the entire game, waiting for McDonald to show up and make an impression. I think McDonald had two targets that game. He was basically a non-factor. Not only that, but he wasn’t even on the field that much. To my frustration, some other douchebag tight end wearing #82 kept lining up both at tight end and in the receiver slot. Whoever this #82 guy was, he was clearly the focal point of their offense in this game from the tight end position, not McDonald.
I ended up googling “#82 TE Rice” and learned that he was some fellow by the name of Luke Willson. To be honest with you, he didn’t really excite me much as a prospect, as he has the physical look of a tall receiver and even played most of his snaps out of the slot. He didn’t “look” like an NFL talent to me.
Then the combine and pro-days arrived, and Willson ended up testing very well. He caught the attention of a lot of draft sites such as Tony Pauline’s draft insider, and for a short time there was even a very small wave of hype building for Willson. Though Willson did not impress me on tape, he measured 6’5″, 251 pounds, and ran a 4.51 with excellent athletic measurables including a 38″ vertical jump.
It’s fitting that Willson wore #82 because his style and receiver physique reminded me a lot of Kellen Winslow jr. during his stint here last preseason. Frankly, I’m shocked that Willson weighed in at 251 pounds. On tape I would have guessed 230.
I said this morning that Seattle was going to probably target special athletes today. No pick shows that more than Luke Willson. I’m not particularly enthused about this pick, especially with several great players still available at other positions. But I’m not completely surprised by it, either. In fact, I’m kicking myself for not mentioning him in my day three preview piece, because I think he fit what Seattle was looking for almost perfectly.
Spencer Ware, RB, LSU
This was the first pick where I legitimately had no idea who Seattle had just taken. At this point I was going frustrated that Seattle continued to pass on both Matt Scott and Luke Marquardt, two high upside prospects at Seattle’s two biggest areas of remaining need.
Then I saw this pick, and it donned on me. Seattle wouldn’t be drafting either of those guys. If a fifth running back goes before you do, you have no chance. I’m not happy about that. Not one bit. Of course, I wasn’t just going to give up hope on those guys, but this pick was officially where I started to feel pessimistic.
I don’t think I like this pick, yet I really like the player Seattle is getting. Right now people are assuming that Ware will be a fullback or a fullback-hybrid like Church Van was. Indeed, he has the size for it and doesn’t have the kind of speed you usually see with top running backs. That said, his speed level and resilience are extremely similar to Chris Ivory, while having the kind of lateral agility and nimbleness that only a handful of NFL running backs are gifted with, one of them being Marshawn Lynch. Don’t you dare sleep on this pick as a future running back. He has, in my opinion, the most entertaining highlight video of any Seahawks draft pick.
Thankfully, Seattle still had plenty of picks left. Here we go! Matt Scott! Luke Marquardt! BJ Daniels! Or some random pick from one of, I dunno, 30 awesome players that are still left!
Ryan Seymour, G, Vanderbilt
Oh for crying out loud. A flex guard before a true tackle?
Technically, Seymour played both guard and tackle at Vanderbilt. That said, his height, arm length, and lean all point to him being a more natural fit at guard. He is perhaps comparable to Paul McQuistan in that he’s a guard with tackle flexibility, but I don’t really see him as a long term starting tackle.
Ty Powell, DE/OLB, Harding
Last night, as I was writing my day III preview, I was collecting a list of relatively fast linebackers that could be options in the late rounds. As I wrote up a shortlist, I knew there was a player I was forgetting. I could visualize what he looked like. He was a big dude that could really move. He played a for a small school. And like Jayson Dimanche or Chase Thomas, he was a bit of a defensive end / linebacker hybrid who’s role in the NFL was yet to be determined.
I had this nagging feeling that if I didn’t figure out who he was and get him on the list, Seattle would draft him and I’d be kicking myself. So I took a good ten minutes, and luckily enough, I figured out who it was and got him on my list. That player of course: Ty Powell. Fukken saved.
I haven’t really talked about Ty Powell much here, or anywhere really, mainly because I wanted to have a life the last four months and that would require not writing about 500 different players. That said, Powell was one of my more favored undrafted free agent prospects. This pick made me happy.
What’s really cool to me about Ty Powell is that he has highlights were he looks like a complete stud as a 4-3 linebacker, but also has highlights were he looks like a beast at LEO. Seattle likes their linebackers and LEO candidtates to run in the 4.4s and 4.5s. Powell ran a 4.60 at 249 pounds. If he shed some weight, it’s conceivable he might run in the mid 4.5s which would be the same size and speed profile as last year’s 5th round pick, Korey Toomer.
Or, they could give him looks at LEO, as he has close to ideal size for the position while having excellent run defense skills and linebacker type instincts. One of the things that separates Chris Clemons from Bruce Irvin are Clemons’ instincts, which were no doubt developed during Clemons’ time as a 236 pound linebacker at Georgia. Powell has great instincts for either position. In some ways, he seems a little too good to be true for a projected 7th rounder.
I’m interested to see where Seattle puts him. My guess is LEO. The team signed two other linebackers I mentioned this morning in undrafted free agency: John Lotulelei and Craig Wilkins (I’m a big fan of Wilkins). Powell would probably have a better shot at making the roster from the LEO spot.
Jared Smith, DT/G, New Hampshire
Here we go Matt Sc…. Nope. So sorry.
Jared Smith, nicknamed “Fat Rabbit”, is a defensive tackle that Seattle intends to convert to guard. (Guard!). This is pretty much all I have to say about this pick:
I actually love the Sweezy pick from last year and how it’s worked out so far. So I can’t complain too much. Seattle might be onto something here with defensive tackles and guards. Seattle had one last chance to get Matt Scott. One last chance…
Michael Bowie, T, Northeastern State
Happy trails in Jacksonville Matt. You too, Jordan.
There isn’t anything out there for Bowie, so I don’t know what to tell you. He has a ton of size: he’s the heaviest lineman Seattle has acquired in the current administration. I don’t know if Seattle’s interest in David Quessenberry and Jordan Mills was a mirage or not, but those were big mauler types and Bowie seems to be cut from that same cloth.
Seattle’s lack of urgency and investment at tackle this year is an unambiguously strong endorsement for Breno Giacomini remaining with the team beyond 2013. I consider myself to be a bit of a Breno backer, so I’m hardly complaining.
Undrafted free agency:
Matt Austin, WR, Utah State
Alvin Bailey, G, Arkansas
Kenneth Boatright, DE, Southern Illinois
Ramon Buchanan, LB, Miami
John Lotulelei, LB, UNLV
Ray Polk, SS, Colorado
Jordon Roussos, G, Bowling Green
Dominique Whaley, RB, Oklahoma
Craig Wilkins, LB, Old Dominion
Alvin Bailey is the biggest name on this list. He’s a guard. Seattle added four guards to their roster today. Unreal.
Wilkins was an eye-opener for me when I studied Seattle’s visit list this week. I’m glad they got him. He’s a catch.
Seattle didn’t sign Jayson Dimanche. They signed his small school teammate. Okay then.
Seattle arguably went without drafting a linebacker, depending on how you view Ty Powell, then added three linebackers in undrafted free agency. Seattle clearly didn’t like this linebacker class. They handled this linebacker class the same way they handled last year’s receiver class, a group John Schneider openly admitted that he didn’t think much of. I completely expected this outcome. Once Pete talked about wanting “competition” for guys like Smith and Morgan instead of a replacement, that was a pretty big sign. Then the linebackers pretty much all ran slow forties. That sealed it.
For a GM that prides himself on drafting a quarterback every year, he’s actually only drafted one quarterback in four NFL drafts now. I almost wonder if John Schneider wants to retire fifteen years from with a career 4.000 OPS at drafting quarterback(s).
Which reminds me, we are going to roll with Josh Portis, Brady Quinn, and Jerrod Johnson in our “quarterback competition” this year. Yikes. Going 4-0 in the preseason last year was fun. I don’t think we’ll see a repeat.
I like Wilkins a lot too. I think he has a good chance to make this team.
If only one UDFA makes this team, I’d wager on LB being the group.
Just wanted to point out that it’s no longer an assumption Ware is going to play fullback. Pete Carroll said so in the post-draft press conference.
This year I knew more about all the players about to be drafted and had made my own Seahawk mocks that were revised at the end of every pick…There were some players I felt shocked that we didnt go after and they were available for the taking…
Only time will tell but with JS track record, he has the benefit of any doubt. Still…I feel disapointed…
Go Hawks
They’ve averaged 4 starter/heavy contributors out of the draft every year so far (plus more that make the roster), it will be interesting to see if they can beat that with this group. They definitely have a chance. Seems like both RBs, both DTs, the WR are shoe ins to make the roster with Michael and Williams having the best shots at being stars right away. If half of the others make the roster as well, this is a very solid draft. Seems like all of the Olinemen will at least make the PS unless they really can’t cut it. Powell, Simon, and Willson seem like more of the wild cards who could go either way. It would be nice to see another stellar class, especially with how deep this roster is getting.
I think we will get quality guys from this draft. I just think we passed on better talents, a couple times. Also, the of NFC West had a great draft. Lots of players in the division I wanted for us. I am a Seahawks faithful and still believe we will win the division. Just still not excited about passing on guys I liked, as well. Lattimore, Lemonier, and Patton to name a few guys.
JS appeared a little bummed about our udfa signings, indicating that PC was having to work really hard at recruiting since we are so good. So u know there are some guys that got away
Being in the NW corner of the continental US doesn’t help in this regard where the money is equivalent. I can’t see how any QB, RB, WR, DB, P, K, or DE wouldn’t see greener grass elsewhere. This will only get harder as the roster gets deeper. But if we truly like some of these guys, they might be available in waiver claims or PS signings.
How the heck did Chase Thomas go undrafted?
Tweener.
Awful Senior Bowl.
Slower than molasses in January.
Spencer Ware’s running style seems to mirror Marshaun’s.
With Michael and Ware on the team, is Turbin in the hot seat?
Or is Real Rob on the hot seat?
Is there any possible way the hawks can carry 4 RBs and a FB?
I don’t think anyone’s on the hot seat as such. Just more competition. The guys who might be in danger are the special teams guys who earn more than the minimum.
Can you guys post something with regards to the players you think might be in trouble getting to the 53 this year?
Ware to me looks like BenJarvus Green Ellis / Brandon Bolden type of runner. Not really fast, one cut and go, in between the box tough runners who always get positive yardage.
I don’t think people realize how close we were to having games with no Marshawn last year. They need depth behind him.
Usually, you and I see eye-to-eye on the same prospects, and some times we even covet the exact same prospects.
But on the subject of Tharold Simon, we are very much on different wavelengths. I’m thoroughly unimpressed with him. I may be wrong, but outside of his physical measurables, I saw very little, if any of the style of play that Seattle likes their cornerbacks to play with.
Of all the players drafted today drafted before the 6th round, I can easily see him failing to make the final roster.
He’ll probably replace Browner. He is one of the picks I am excited about.
I’m surprised as well that Seattle didn’t draft a WILL to replace Leroy Hill. Maybe they re-sign him? They can certainly get him for a good price. Or, since Antoine Winfield is really good in run support, maybe the Seahawks decide to use the nickel defense as their base defense. So instead of the 4-3, it’ll be the 4-2-5. Then they can use the remaining linebackers on their roster for special teams. Just a guess.
I get the feeling the rumblings we’ve heard about Avril playing LB are true. Avril seems capable. He is a fairly well rounded player. He could end up being like Ju-P in this offense. Or like the Matthews/Cushing combo at USC.
I think we are underestimating how much the team likes Malcolm Smith and Korey Toomer.
Couple that with most teams playing 3 WR’s and like Kip said all the LB’s in the draft ran slower than what PC/JS look for going in with the guys you have is ok.
Probably unlikely HIll is back unless they have an injury bug in that role (knock on wood). They really like to play with the nickel packages and I know they build their board by comparing prospects against their existing roster. Doesn’t seem like they put replacing his empty chair on the top of their board, but looks to be a heated battle in camp for all the LB roles after Wagner and KJ.
It would be hilarious if San Francisco saw our scouts at Rice thinking we wanted Vance McDonald when they were really there for Luke Wilson. So they jumped over us thinking we wanted Vance in the 2nd, Schneider calmly trades back grabbing Christine Michael and then getting Luke Wilson while giving Baalke a grin.
Yeah, I think the opportunity to jump directly in front of Seattle was not lost on Harbaalke even though it probably was not their only reason to do so, but if they truly thought they could scoop the ‘Hawks, that is pretty funny. It would be even more fun if Seattle again had guys on the short list for offensive and defensive ROTY again, albeit unlikely. Especially if most of the Niner top draftees again ride the pine most of the year like last year.
It would be hilarious, and I hope it’s true. However, I honestly think McDonald was Seattle’s pick. And they got Harbaugh’d.
I seriously doubt it was our pick. I think it was mere coincidence they moved up to grab a TE at that point. Frisco had a much greater need at TE than Seattle having lost Delanie Walker. They moved up and grabbed a guy they liked.
Even you having done research knew how much Christine Michael looked like the guy. It worked out that way. I think people that read this blog were some of the few people not surprised by the Christine Michael pick. Most of the forums I’ve read people were surprised. When Michael tweeted how much he liked the place, I felt that Pete and John must have really sold him. They would only do that if they themselves were really sold on the guy.
Given the rivalry, we like to have it in our mind that the teams are one-upping each other, when the reality is they are just doing their thing. Do really have that much use for another TE after signing Percy Harvin? I seriously doubt it. There’s going to be enough problems finding balls for Rice, Baldwin, Harvin, Tate, Miller, McCoy, and the bevy of other receivers competing.
We did lose Leon Washington. Like I discussed with another poster, think about how you felt when Leon Washington came on as a RB? Did he excite you? I bet Pete and John felt the same way. A third productive RB was our pick the entire way. It makes too much sense when you look at how the team is built.
I guess it’s impossible to tell either way. I think it’s the kind of move San Fran would just love to pull. And I think it was more than a coincidence that they traded above Seattle. The Seahawks were probably in the market for a TE and McDonald had the kind of upside they go for. They’d clearly spent time watching Rice as they drafted the other tight end on the roster — a complete unknown to most.
I wasn’t actually a fan of McDonald’s, I felt he looked unnatural catching the ball and maybe flattered to deceive. I wouldn’t have been crazy about the pick. But I still think it was possible.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sure they were that bothered if they were looking at Vance… but it might have been a case of there were five guys they liked at the end of round two and McDonald was at the head of the table with Michael a close second. I much prefer Christine, so I’m glad it worked out this way.
For what it’s worth and assuming you can take what he says at face value, Schneider addressed this question somewhat in the post-draft press conference. When asked what it was that the Seahawks saw in Willson, Schneider replied that on their board he graded out as the second highest TE in this draft class. To believe that their original target in the second round was McDonald, you would have to also believe that McDonald was the highest rated TE on their board. While I suppose this is possible, it seems unlikely. What are the chances that the Seahawk’s two highest rated tight ends were both playing for the same school?
He used the word “tested”,not the word “graded.” This susggests that Willson was second in physical measurables,not necessarily on their original overall ranking ,of which the physicals would be a component.
yup
The chances were good. Rice plays their TE’s in the slot a lot. Also Vance tested out highest at the combine, physically. I think Vance was the top choice at TE on their board, probably right below Christine Michael. I think Schneider gives off a few tells during the question. From the very beginning, almost as soon as the name Vance McDonald is mentioned, he swallows definitively without drinking anything. Schneider stutters a little later during questioning. His facial expressions afterwards, leaves me to believe Vance was Schneiders guy. Pete was in love with Michael in the second round and highly touted by Schneider as well, which probably gave Michael the nod. However I do think the 49ers knew we were interested in McDonald. Can’t stand the 9ers. Go Hawks!
I’m not buying it unless I hear it from PC or JS themselves.
Wow, really? This is kind of a moot point since we will likely never know whether Vance McDonald was the Seahawks second round target or not, but as long as we’re engaging in rampant speculation, allow me to voice the opposing viewpoint as it is my belief that Luke Willson was their guy all along.
First of all, after a marathon drafting session that concluded with an emotional conference call with Derrick Jensen, the 22-year Seahawks scout forced to retire because of ALS (Lou Gehrig’s desease), I would be a basket case. If Schneider seemed a bit out of sorts, I think that’s understandable. The last thing he probably wanted to do is face a media second-guessing every move that he had made throughout the day. I seriously doubt that he was in a mood for parsing enough to make a distinction between the words “tested” and “graded”. Anything else read into his mannerisms at the time would be less than responsible, no?
As for McDonald’s “testing highest at the combine…”, consider the following:
McDonalds combine 40 time was 4.6 seconds, Willson’s pro day 40 time was officially 4.51 seconds although he reportedly had times of 4.46 and 4.47 seconds as well; McDonald’s combine vertical came in at 33.5 inches, Willson’s pro day vertical was measured at 38 inches; McDonald’s combine broad jump was 9’11”, Willson’s pro day broad jump was 10’2″; McDonalds shuttle and 3-cone drills were clocked at 4.53 seconds and 7.08 seconds respectively, Willson’s times were 4.28 seconds and 7.04.
Given that Willson beat McDonald in every single metric, it is hard to fathom how McDonald would be the top choice on the Seahawks board based on testing alone.
Finally, three weeks ago the Seahawks had a private workout with Willson. To my knowledge (which admittedly may well be incomplete) they did not have one with McDonald. This leads me to believe that Willson was always the Seahawks choice at TE.
If you have the time, listen to the Ed Dodds interview. When he talks about scouting Willson he talks about how it’s all come down to having players who create mismatches, kind of Schneider’s “bending the field” idea. He implies that Willson as a vertical threat is one of these mismatches. McDonald?…
Dodd was also noticeably more enthusiastic about Willson that Schneider was.
Reading way more into how a person looks than you could possibly know. I’m sorry, all the evidence points to Christine Michael being the guy. Just like last year when we drafted Bruce Irvin, it’s obvious after the fact.
Last year they were looking for a pass rusher with speed. So Rob starts looking at pass rushers and comes up with Upshaw. Then Irvin is taken and he has everything Seattle was looking for.
This year if you study the draft, you see Christine Michael was there guy. He tweeted out how much he liked the place. Leon Washington was cut leaving a third RB hole they didn’t fill in free agency. When Marshawn is out of the game, our run game becomes anemic. We sign one of the premiere slot receivers in the league in Percy Harvin which reduces your available catches per player enough to preclude needing another TE. Who do you want on the field? Vance or Percy?
Every bit of evidence points to Seattle choosing a RB fairly high in the draft. After the fact it is a no brainer, just like last year. It was the gaping hole we weren’t talking about. This team doesn’t carry less than three running backs. Leon never worked out as the third viable option.
I doubt that for a few reasons. One of them being that the Seahawks moved down with Baltimore before the 49ers announced their pick.
That’s right. That trade was ready beforehand. Good point, Kip.
Yes they did, but they probably knew who San Fran were moving up to get.
I think if Seattle already had the same QB1, QB2, and QB3 from the last day of last year, they would be more likely to draft a QB, but having brought in two new to the system and one back, they clearly felt they already had enough churn going on plus this QB draft class was clearly just not that extraordinary, from top to bottom. Perhaps with RW in full Jedi teaching mode for the 3 new guys, he’ll gain even more insight into the offense. They could still add another practice body for early camp but they seem set there for now.
I trust there will be an upgrade at QB as the waiver wire fills late August. At least I pray so 🙂
I think if T-Jack gets released, Seattle could be all over that.
I’m still a bit shocked that Seattle watched a really good mid-late round QB group just stroll by them. John Schneider does not like drafting quarterbacks.
Tavaris is a good candidate for our backup quarterback. I too am surprised we didn’t try to add one in the draft. I am sad we didn’t draft my favorite predraft player, Ryan Swope.
Absolutely. I agree that they are just waiting for T-Jack to get released so he can be brought back as a solid backup who already knows the offense.
Ironic, since I thought he’s stated before he’d love to take one every year.
There was a little part of me holding out hope for Barkley in R3. Great value. I think he’s going to be a good quarterback. And if competition is the mantra, why not at QB?
Surprised also to see Scott, Aplin, Daniels, etc fly past us. I guess they must consider Johnson essentially a draft pick equivalent.
It really just communicates that they didn’t grade those guys high enough to go there. No irony, just math.
One of the positions I was surprised we didn’t draft for was any depth @ MLB.
I know we just got wags last year, and I sure as heck hope he doesn’t get hurt, but what’s our plan behind him? move KJ over? what do we have behind KJ at MLB?
Overall was just very surprised at it.
I was in that line of thinking as well however this team has consistantly drafted guys with the ability to play multiple positions. not to mention I’m fairly certain there are people still on their radar, ala Barrett Ruud of last year, that we may see them pick up.
UDFA John Lotulelei, LB UNLV – 5’11, 233, a Tatupu type guy.
They could move several of the guys they have to MLB, if needed.
Maybe they were just really impressed with Jerrod Johnson.
And while I agree with you re: Marquardt, I’ve seen a couple comments since the draft that make me suspect our FO didn’t like his football character. Bowie looks like a heck of a prospect at OT for someone taken that low, so I’ll just hope they made the right call at that position.
Johnson is intriguing and will be interesting to watch in camp. The grade they applied to him probably had a great deal to do with passing on drafting other QBS in later rounds.
The FO got the 411 on Bowie from Okung himself.
I am apt to exaggerate. That said, I’m pounding the table that Bowie makes the 2013 team.
Interesting that several of the favorites, Scott, Swope, Marquardt, Patton….were passed over not just by the Seahawks, but by every other team. And I mean passed over and over and over. Whatever negatives PCJS saw, everyone else saw as well; ie, pro scouts saw something we did not see.
Scott, experience and interviews. Swope, concussions. Marquardt, competition and technique.
I’m sure medical evaluation played a major role in Scott’s tumble. He’s only 210 pounds, was constantly injured, and had concussions despite only starting one season.
A quick guess at the 53-man reveals just how few of these guys will make the team:
QB: Wilson, Quinn
RB: Lynch, Turbin, Michael, Robinson
WR: Harvin, Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Harper
TE: Miller, McCoy, Fells
OL: Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, Giacomini, McQuistan, Moffitt, Jean-Pierre, Johnson
DL: Clemons, Avril, Irvin, Mebane, Bryant, Bennett, McDaniel, Scruggs, Hill, Williams, Howard
LB: Wright, Wagner, Smith, Morgan, Farwell, Toomer
DB: Sherman, Browner, Thomas, Chancellor, Winfield, Lane, Guy, Maragos, Maxwell, Thurmond
ST: Wiggs, Ryan, Gresham
Practice Squad: Seymour, Bowie, Smith, Powell, Willson, Ware, Johnson (QB), Bradford
Out of luck: McDonald, Hauschka, McGrath, Person, Johnson (S), Shead, Bates, Kearse, Williams (WR)
*meant to insert Simon instead of Thurmond or Maxwell. Also out of luck, Josh Portis unfortunately.
The final cuts will have a lot of differences from this list. They could keep 3 QBs. Robinson’s spot is not guaranteed over Ware. Fells has to be a long shot. McQuistan will have to be much better than the cheaper alternatives as a backup. Jean-Pierre and Johnson will have to beat out competition for those spots. Clemons will start season on PUP. Scruggs and Howard will have to earn their spots. I could see action at the waiver wire at LB. It will be a battle for the DB backups. Wiggs is a long shot to supplant Hauschka.
really, you think
Fells allready owns the TE spot?
You give an o-line spot automatically to Jean-Pierre and Johnson
I would not be surprised in the least if 8 or 9 of these picks make the 53.
I have a hard time seeing both Howard and McDaniel on the 53.
I love this roster. Only thing I would change is the backup QB (sorry to talk about the backup QB Rob…)
My inputs:
QB: Wilson, Quinn
RB: Lynch, Turbin, Michael, Robinson, Ware
WR: Harvin, Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Harper
TE: Miller, McCoy, Willson
OL: Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, Giacomini, McQuistan, Moffitt, Jean-Pierre, Person
DL: Avril, Irvin, Mebane, Bryant, Bennett, McDaniel, Scruggs, Hill, Williams, Howard
LB: Wright, Wagner, Smith, Morgan, Farwell, Wilkins, Powell
DB: Sherman, Browner, Thomas, Chancellor, Winfield, Lane, Guy, Maragos, Simon
ST: Hauschka, Ryan, Gresham
PUP: Clemons
9 Week IR: Thurmond
Practice Squad: Seymour, Bowie, Smith, , Willson, Bradford, Lotulelei, McGrath. Kearse
Out of luck: Wiggs, McDonald, Johnson (S), Shead, Bates, Williams
There actually is quite a bit of tape on Bowie.. for a 7th round pick. Watch Brandon Weeden versus Texas Tech. He’s the left tackle. Looks pretty good. Nice, devloped kick step. His hands are a little slow to the punch and wide. No trouble with speed rushers. Seems to play a bit weak. But yeah. Brandon Weeden and Joseph Randle tape from last year in five games show him.
I feel really bad for Jesse Williams. His entire country was behind him. On his interviews on their version of the Today Show they were like “oooohhh first auzzie playing gridiron! You could be a top ten pick! You’ll have six million dollars over four years.” Five rounds later. Da monsta isn’t a national hero, or whatever.
He took it well. I loved his tweet about waiting for the best team to come along.
He seems like such a nice guy, I hope he’s hiding a nasty streak somewhere.
I think Jesse Williams is pretty lucky. He just went from college football’s most physically dominant team to the NFL’s most physically dominant team.
I want to see some write-ups on Jesse Williams. Only deficiency I saw in his game at one tech is he isn’t the greatest tackler. Those short arms on that stout body cause problems when wrapping up.
Blah!
For me this draft wasn’t sexy at all! The current roster is though, so I can’t complain. The only guy I am really happy about is Jesse Williams all the rest are wait and see guys. I would really like to know who and how many targeted players were stolen off the board before Seattle could get to them. I have the impression most of the picks were second or third choices.
They are in on a lot of guys, the really interesting list would be the guys they felt they couldn’t leave the draft without. Last year it was Irvin and Wilson. I wonder if any of these guys rose to that level in their pre-draft discussions.
Wow, looking at the draft and UDFA, I count 4 guards. Moffit may not be long for this team. Perhaps Seattle continues to give Carp reps at RT to continue versatility.
I really like Moffit. However, during his past visit with the Real Rob Report, he states something that I think he believes: “The fact that I am in the NFL at all is amazing. I have no talent.”
Does he really believe this? If he does, he is surely done.
Moffitt is huge on self-deprecation. Watch the RRR to get an idea of his sense of humor. I seriously doubt he believes it.
John Moffitt seems like a great guy and props for poking fun at himself, but he is right in one thing…he has nowhere near the athletic talent of James Carpenter, Rishaw Johnson and JR Sweezy. Johnson looked great in training camp last year, and I would love to see him play with his his hair on fire, because if he doesn’t, Tom Cable has two more guards from R7 ready to take his spot. Moffitt’s place on the roster is somewhat in jeopardy, because the Seahawks might try to get away with McQuistan, Jean-Pierre and Johnson as their only backups, and rely on the practice squad if someone gets injured during the season. This would allow them to carry an extra DL or DB.
Moffitt would have some trade value if he gets beat out, there is definitely some competition and it’s Carps job to lose as starting LG. They are counting on his improved upper body strength to spearhead the running attack, especially in short yardage situations.
You guys had really good coverage this draft. Nice work.
As much as i try to be cheerful…I’m not.
I just wrote a whole comment venting my extreme frustration on this draft and deleted it all.
Here goes instead :
Dear John, Pete,
I am sorry for my lack of trust and faith.
You have indeed showed me in 3 years that you deserve my blind trust and faith and yet it has wavered in the face of this draft.
In 3 drafts you showed me and the rest of the NFL that your way is the right way. Again and again you picked names we were all puzzled about and proved us all wrong.
It would take months if not longer for the wisdom in your choices to become apparent for us all to see.
Forgive me that during that time i might sink into despair regarding what looks like a great draft by every other team in our division. The grass in your neighbor’s yard always looks greener.
I may even wonder were is Swope or Patton, Kelce or Hunt. I may even whisper a curse or two watching Russel run for his life from guys cumming from the right side of the Oline.
I know in my heart that you did the right thing, picked the right guys for our team and will lead it to greatness. But right now my brain insists that the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. It keeps telling me that there was way more in this extremely deep draft then the bounty we have right now. Yes, even starting at the bottom of the 2nd round…
I’m sorry…i should have had more trust, more faith. Believe me i’m trying…
Please may your magic work fast this time. I don’t think i’m the only one wondering what the F$$k is happening.
In JSPC we trust !!!
The right side of our line sounds like they’re very talented.
Lol nice verse eran but Relax, k? Even if we didn’t pick a single player in this draft we’ve still added an ELITE play making wideout, a young Leo/Sam who’s on the cusp of the pro bowl, a 3tech/de who was top 5 in the pfff rankings and the #1 ranked nickel cb in football!! We have a historic draft class from last year who are only gonna get better from having a year under their belts and a deep young roster that’s the envy of the entire league!!!! We’re doin ok here!
The magic is going to be happening slower and slower the deeper this team gets. They are going to start drafting guys who won’t start for 1-3 years down the road and the quick fixes from free agency will be going away. The plan for the long haul is to draft well, build from within, and get lots of compensatory picks when roster churn happens.
I’ll take our off-season over that of any other team. Taken by itself, the draft might seem like a let-down but look at what was accomplished via free agency. JS filled nearly every need, drafted for depth and took a couple of chances that might pay off huge down the line.
Did most of us see the players we wanted end up being drafted? In my case, not a single player I wanted ended up as a Seahawk. Did our division rivals have great drafts? Absolutely, but the Rams and Cards are significantly inferior teams and they need rookies to get them to the next level. The 9ers drafted every player ever mentioned on SHDB in 2012/13 but Harbaugh doesn’t play rookies so you might see those players on the field a year from now. Let them hope for 2014. I want my team to win this year’s Superb Owl.
This years theme should of been, “Jack of All Trades”. The guys we drafted or acquired, including Harvin, Avril, Bennett, and McDaniel. Plus every one of the picks, could possibly play multiple positions. If this was out goal, we accomplished it for sure. Even if we passed on quality guys.
This also allows for every one of the guys to make the team in some regard.
I think Chris Harper is going to be Golden Tate replacement. He’s going to get a year to get coached up. He’s bigger more physical receiver than Tate and coming from Kansas State might be a bigger better blocker in the run game at that Number 2 WR position.
Tharold Simon will get a year to be groomed maybe to take Browner’s spot
Spenser Ware gets a year to learn to be a fullback he seems to like contact.
Ty Powell is guy I think they just couldn’t on with his abilities to play OLB or LEO He’s scheme diversive.
Michael Bowie probably takes franks place and gets a year and then make a push for Breno’s spot.
Jared Smith the versatile Paul McQuistan replacement in a year.
The only player I got right Christine Michaels takes Leon place and will be way more explosive.
Jesse Williams takes Alan Branch’s spot and we hope with his talent he stays healthy.
Jordan Hill takes Howards place.
When ya start to look at it in a future sense this draft really isn’t as bad as I thought it was.
I like Harper but Golden Tate is a pretty great run blocker. Fieldgulls did a piece showing that the team relied heavily on Tate’s blocking including using him exclusively in there 22 (1 WR) package.
I’ll be looking for a trade of Rice and Browner in the future. I think Golden Tate continues to improve. We will resign him.
For the past few months, one of my daily highlights has been visiting SDB. I truly love the mocks, posts, comments, camaraderie, the very atmosphere of this site and its utter Seahawkiness. But for me the best part of it all has been the education: Education – not just learning of all the great prospects that were part of this year’s draft class, but learning how to learn about them, learning the process of reading the player profiles constantly offered by Rob and Kip, watching the game film, analyzing strengths/fit, discussing the pros/cons, and reaching my own conclusions; building a draft board, “gardening” it constantly if you will by planting seeds of ideas about certain players, evaluating them to see which pleased my eye the most, pulling the weeds when I recognized them. For me that’s where the juice is. I’m certainly no GM, let alone coach, trainer or scout. I sincerely doubt I ever shall be. But I relished the experience of acting like one lo these past many weeks. I’m not really serious about this stuff, but I definitely take it seriously.
That’s why I saw the draft as a masterclass of Education, writ large. I’m glad it didn’t go the way I hoped/thought. Where would the fun be in that? Sure, I could have ended up being right about who was picked. But I prefer to be happy. And like I said above, I’m happy when I’m learning about a player I’ve never heard of, then working him through the evaluation process and reaching a conclusion. Well, I had never even heard of 6 of the picks before they were announced, not to mention that Rob or Kip introduced me to 5 of the others (the exception being Luke Willson, whose pro day performance I read about myself and might even have posted a comment on SDB).
So now, in the same way I learned from Rob and Kip (and my fellow SDBers), I get to learn from JSPC directly by running their prospects, their selections, through the process. I’m particularly lucky in that not only do I get to evaluate (read: discover) 6 new players I’d never heard of (and do so with this community), but I also get to see how accurate my/our evaluations were of several players whom I/we have previously considered (Christine Michael, Jordan Hill and Jesse Williams). What could be better?
In the spirit of learning and exchanging, I have thoughts to share about other teams’ drafts, not just who went where, but why it works or not. Of course, I also have plenty to say about our picks, and some questions to pose. But there’s plenty of time for all that.
Meantime, enjoy your Sunday fun day.
Great stuff! One more thing: pre-season becomes a lot more interesting when we actually get to see these guys trying to make the team and we have an understanding of how they came to be here and what they offer.
Thanks Eric. I’m honored to know that others were inspired to watch videos and make their own evaluations because of this site. That’s great to hear. I think doing self-study and forming your own opinions is what makes the evaluation process fun.
It’s a mixed bag for me too. On the one hand, my favorite RBs were Lacy, Michael and Ware. So to end up with one of those was awesome. To end up with two is … weird. Feels like overkill. I’m also not keen to see MRob pass the torch.
I wanted a big bodied receiver, so yay Chris Harper. But he’s also more stout than tall, so how big of a target does he really provide? I would have gone Harrison or He Who Shall Not be Named, per Rob. And as ~6’0″ receivers go I’d take Swope first for his greater consistency and effort.
DT I don’t really know how to evaluate, so I’m just glad to have some more options there. Hopefully JWiliams knees aren’t that bad. At DE, I’m disappointed about not getting Armonty Bryant — he made pass rushing look so easy. Will be interesting to see how he fairs with the Browns.
Tharold Simon. Don’t we need competition at slot corner more? One of the knocks I’ve read on Simon is that his CoD isn’t great and so he’s better suited outside than inside. And let’s hope the red flags about his attitude, and his arrest, prove to be overblown. This pick makes me more nervous than excited.
I’m kinda glad we didn’t spend a pick on a QB. I think we’ll have more than enough choice among free agents to come up with somebody good enough to start a few games. Bringing back TJack would be fine with me.
Oh and Lemonier to SF and Swope to AZ stings. Those guys will cause us some grief.
AND, holy crap we have a lot guards now. Cool to see the DL to OL conversion experiment continue though.
Harper should really make a difference in the run game, he will be a real asset.
What is all the complaining about.
We got two guys that I hoped would be on the board at 56. Michael and Williams.
PCJS are amazing, they traded back and got both with the combined picks of the overal trade.
I for one would have been happy with Hill in the third, and it was said many times prior to the draft that he would be a fit for our team in the 3rd or 4th.
Here is the part many fans will not like, but I have been saying on here for a while
McQ will be traded/released come the end of camp (his cap hit is to much)
I feel that Robinson will be competing for his spot more than ever before with Ware?(cap is in play here)
I give these guys a roster % of making the team.
Michael 2nd RB (used more than Turbin last year) 99%
Hill DT (used in rotation duty) 99%
Harper has a year to be coached before taking over for Rice or Tate (cap is restricting in future) 90%
Williams early down 3T this year (may replace Bryant as starting 5T by 2014) 99%
Simon (as good a chance as anyone to start opposit Sherm in 2014) 75%
Willson (as good a chance to be our Joker as Fells has) 60%
Ware (They drafted him to knowing that they need a new FB by 2014) 40%
Powell probably makes the roster if Clemons is on PUP 75% (Clemons not on PUP) 20%
I would count on 2 of the 5or 6, Rd7/UDFA OL to make the team(2 of them, not calling the 2) 80%
Their salaries will almost certainly see McQuistan and Robinson moving on after this season, but the Seahawks need a year to groom their replacements. Bowie is too raw to be the backup OT for this season, and Ware needs to be schooled in fullback play.
In his presser, Pete clarified one point the media has been getting wrong: they traded up in R5 to select Simon, not Williams. Although Williams was chosen in the Detroit slot in R5 they traded up for, so technically he was the trade-up, in fact Pete said that they were going to draft Williams anyway with their first R5 pick, which was the one right after Detroit’s. Simon was the guy they did not think would be there when their later picks came up in R5, so he is the guy they traded up for.
Interesting, I hadn’t heard that detail. Seeing past the character challenges could be really rewarding on that pick.
I suppose you could argue they traded up to get both?
yeah, it was not for one or the other, Maybe they did not expect Williams to quite make it so far. He had to be the pick as he stood alone on there board (JS said something to this affect. They traded up so they could get both of these players, but maybe if there was nobody willing to take the trade, they would have only gotten Williams.
This actually makes me more excited about Simon, because Schnieder actually saw enough in him to use two of there money picks on the guy. They are money in the 5th round.
Agreed. I thought at the time the trade was really for Simon, even though it was “officially” for Williams since the pick they traded for has Jesse Williams written on it. If they don’t trade up, they are taking Williams and waiting for Simon, so in that sense it’s pretty clear the move up was to ensure they got the #2 guy, Simon.
Prety good Jordan hill tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWFZ2PKWJ8s
Holy shitat! I just watched Ware highlights. He IS Lynch.
Makes me want Arthur Brown more… 🙁
I just read a draft review on MSN and they guys gave seahawks an A grade purely on the merit that they dont want to look bad when the Seahawks draft class kills it in the NFL.
Freaking hilarious. Scared to rate Hawks less than an A so their reps dont get trashed later.
Christine Michael = Emmitt Smith
The Jesse William’s family tattoo story is probably the most Australian/Alabama crossover thing that has every existed in recorded history. I’m dumbfounded, awestruck, and exhilarated at the same time.
Also, why Harper over Harrison? Harrison poops in weird places and eats meals on A BED! Allegedly. But still. A bed. Unforgivable.