There’s a point of view I’ve spent a lot of time considering over the last few months and increasingly, I agree with it.
Mike Florio is the source of the opinion. He believes when you draft a young quarterback it’s important to pair them with an offensive minded Head Coach. That way, if the offense succeeds, you won’t lose the coach (and the offense) to another team seeking to appoint the next ‘hot-shot’ offensive mind as their leader.
Look at the Atlanta Falcons for example. They were the dominant NFC team in 2016. Matt Ryan won the MVP, playing in Kyle Shanahan’s offense. When they dumped Seattle out of the playoffs, Pete Carroll said his team had run into ‘a buzzsaw’. They reached the Super Bowl and should’ve won it.
Shanahan was then appointed Head Coach of the 49ers, where they’ve since reached one Super Bowl and another NFC Championship. The Falcons, however, collapsed once their offensive coordinator departed. Ryan never repeated his MVP form. The thing that made Atlanta such a fearsome opponent — the offense — travelled to California with Shanahan.
Further to that, consistency is vitally important. Nothing unsettles a young quarterback like a regular churn of different coordinators and voices giving the instructions.
As the Seahawks prepare to inevitably draft a quarterback in 2023, I can’t help but wonder about the best environment for that player to walk into.
Is it to join a team with a leading offensive mind running the operation — creating a two-headed monster where the QB and Head Coach are completely aligned to drive the franchise forwards (ideally paired with a proven, experienced defensive coordinator)?
Or is it to join a team fronted by a defensive minded Head Coach with a controlling vision of the team, who appoints an offensive coordinator to do essentially what he wants (with, perhaps, some willingness to be open to new suggestions as long as it works alongside the grander philosophy)?
For a lot of people, it’s a no-brainer.
I have to say, I’m one of those people.
Especially when said Head Coach has appointed a collection of underwhelming offensive coordinators, none of which have gone on to earn Head Coaching jobs themselves despite having the opportunity to work with the likes of Russell Wilson, Marshawn Lynch and D.K. Metcalf over the years.
Yet the truth is Pete Carroll will probably be with this team until he decides he’s had enough. The timeframe of an eventual sale of the franchise aligns perfectly with his contract. It’s convenient for the placeholder owners to invest their trust in Carroll and John Schneider to see this through until a sale is completed.
Thus, when the likes of Mike McDaniel, Brian Daboll, Nathaniel Hackett, Kevin O’Connell, Doug Pederson and Josh McDaniels were appointed in the off-season — there was never any real possibility of them replacing Carroll and either working with Russell Wilson or leading the post-Wilson era of Seahawks football.
With the team floundering in pre-season and familiar concerns returning, it’s a comfortable fit to slip into a pair of envy shoes and wonder what the future could be like if this was a team being led by an offensive guru.
Of course, it’s also very easy to have your head turned by the next exciting offensive coordinator. We have to concede that aside from Pederson, none of the names above have Carroll’s track record as a leader of a football team.
I am starting to wonder a couple of things though.
Firstly, regardless of what happens in 2022, is it right to draft your next franchise quarterback without pairing them with an offensive minded Head Coach for the reasons noted at the start of the article?
Secondly, is Shane Waldron actually any good (if he is indeed still with the team next year)? And how do you properly judge him if you’re going to give him Geno Smith at quarterback — or ask him to lead a running attack that will likely face a stacked box every week because there’s no serious threat in the passing game?
Thirdly, after a really challenging 2021 season, is Carroll even going to be motivated to carry on in 2023 if this year goes as well as it’s threatening to? The Seahawks don’t get to have a 2011 season just because they plan to — ending with a bit of a flourish, developing talent and feeling close.
There’s every chance this will be a bad, bad season.
If that happens, it’s going to put a lot of pressure on Carroll. The team is already being booed in pre-season. People like me might be fully prepared to embrace a difficult year in order to set up the future. A lot of other fans are going to look at a situation where Carroll oversaw the departure of Wilson and then, possibly, led the Seahawks to the depths of the NFL, and say this isn’t acceptable.
This will be especially difficult for Carroll if Wilson’s Broncos have a great season.
Maybe he would carry on until the bitter end? Alternatively, perhaps ownership would also find itself under pressure to not be seen to be absent. After all — Jody Allen never speaks. We don’t know what the ‘plan’ is here. If she’d clarified this is a process, people would be more likely to accept it. Yet silence is often interpreted as complacency — fair or not.
A parting, mutually, might not be totally out of the question between team and Head Coach — forcing some action where ownership would be facing a huge decision they’d need to get right. Then again, I’m not sure Carroll would be placing his future in the hands of Geno Smith and Drew Lock if he felt like he wasn’t going to get a chance to draft a quarterback in 2023, whatever the results of 2022.
I appreciate this is all a bit premature and some will, not unfairly, accuse me of overreacting to pre-season. My counter, at least to the second part of that, is there are two types of pre-season reaction. When a good team underperforms, it’s easier to give them the benefit of the doubt. When a team led by Geno Smith underperforms — leaving its starters on the field for a half and not scoring a point on offense, tackles appallingly on defense and plays special teams like a bunch of random strangers — question marks are far more legitimate.
I fear for the Seahawks in 2022 and thus, I also fear for the impact on Carroll’s reputation in Seattle.
I admit I think a big call had to be made either way with Wilson and it was good that the franchise didn’t try and stumble on for another year. I also think a big opportunity remains to rebuild through this 2022 draft class and the 2023 group upcoming.
Yet I think Carroll’s recent statement that, basically, the ‘competition’ aspect of pre-season is now over and they’re resorting to getting everyone ready for week one is something of an admission of how far away they are from being a functioning team. Every effort is being put into not being embarrassed in primetime, week one, against Russell Wilson and Denver — because that would be incredibly damaging.
If that happens anyway — watch out. Things could get ugly quickly. Patience with Carroll could wear thin. The Wilson trade doesn’t buy you time like you had in 2010 to build a team. It actually creates pressure to show you can move forward — to show positive signs, if nothing else, minus the one player who kept you competitive for so many years.
I’m not completely writing the Seahawks off, though. I accept there’s a chance they can develop and grow, even if the wins don’t come. A 2011-style season is not out of the question and would be a positive result.
Yet I am not currently getting a 2011 vibe — aside from the comparable quarterback situations. People will suggest there’s maybe some recency bias involved in that opinion — but I do remember the 2011 off-season somewhat fondly. The lockout ending right before the season enabled the Seahawks to add three big names, at a cost, in free agency (something they’ve avoided doing again since then). This year there’s been very positive vibes around Tariq Woolen and Coby Bryant, plus the two young offensive tackles and Boye Mafe. I’m not sure it’s quite as comparable to the emergence of Doug Baldwin, Richard Sherman and K.J. Wright — plus the arrival of Brandon Browner.
In pre-season they were quite competitive in 2011. They won two games against the Chargers and Raiders and narrowly lost to Denver by three points. They also lost to the Vikings in a game that was 13-7 with two minutes to go.
Again, it’s pre-season. I appreciate trying to compare pre-seasons will induce some mocking comments. I also do think the Seahawks have felt messy, uncompetitive and shambolic in this 2022 pre-season so far. How else do you explain being 24-0 down to the rebuilding Bears, who benched most of their starters after the opening exchanges?
Right now I’d predict Seattle is a shoe-in for a top-10 pick. Which, in my opinion, wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. Yet I do have reservations about the best way to proceed if that comes to fruition. And I do wonder how fans will react to it if the season goes that way and Wilson’s Broncos excel.
Ownership, the front office and Pete Carroll can’t assume people will tolerate a bad product when the message consistently is to play down the nature of this rebuild or in the case of Jody Allen, not say anything in years other than one statement about your unwillingness to sell the team at the moment.
Essentially, this either can’t be as bad as many of us are starting to fear. Or there has to be the kind of honest, open communication with the fan base — aka, true leadership — that this franchise has sadly lacked for too long.
And if tough decisions need to be made, certain people should be prepared to make them.
Let’s hope it doesn’t have to come to that.
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Such a great piece. Great thoughts to mull around.
It is very hard to see what is going on right now. You mentioned 2011 and I’ve brought it up before….this team has very few leaders unlike then. Carol and co., had the luck, foresight, smarts? To pair young players on that team with veteran presences and guys who knew their system. Clemons, milloy, heck gallery. He wasn’t great but at least he knew Cable. Now….artie burns I suppose. It’s not a great team building recipe.
Then the trade. Forget the former QB. You’ve apparently received a bust at QB. A TE that does anyone really think Fant is going to do anything more than the dozen odd TE’s before him haven’t done? Some people I think are hoping he’s kittle, kelce, etc. And I’m pretty sure in a Pete offense he’s gonna be Gerald Everett. Then Shelby Harris who I hope can play at last year’s level.
The draft was awesome. Truly. But free agency yet again was an exercise in overpaying.
I don’t know what the plan is. But trying to sign a Mason Rudolph type and maybe another would have felt like something. Backup qb the team barely wanted to sign and a second round qb who might not even have been the best back up for Denver ( mark rypiens nephew anyone?) Isn’t a competition. How I know this? Because this very coach held one of the most argued over battles for starting qb I have ever witnessed in Flynn vs. Wilson to field a winner.
I only care about the QB to the point of mitigating the issues that Rob brought up, ie the opposing defense stacking the box and therefore we can’t fairly evaluate the rest of the unit. But if we get at least mediocre play from that position then at that point the concern is exactly what Rob pointed out. Defense looks to be in shambles a bit, Special teams again an issue – and no discipline on the o-line ie shooting ourselves in the foot from a field position perspective due to penalties.
QB issues will be understandable, but if they can’t get a competent team besides that going, then JS and PC need to go.
Fair points about the qb.
And also same sentiments regarding the defense and special teams.
I am more stoked for this season than any of the last 3 or 4. Personally I never considered Wilson an elite qb, and thought much of the offenses problem was Wilson’s inability or refusal to use the short middle of the field. I was a big fan early on when his legs mase up for the deficiency. When pass rushes were kept in check by the read option and the risk of Wilson taking it around the end if the end was continuously crashing, spread the field laterally as effectively as a team who actually dumps off to the rb consistently.
Once that aspect of his game deteriorated, with age and muscle gain, I felt he was pretty one deminsional. Obviously he is great at reading safeties and throwing deep balls accordingly, maybe the prettiest deep balls in history, but that was about it. He didn’t seem to be able to have an answer for an all out blitz, as he can’t really throw a slant with any consistency, and seemingly only dumps the ball to the backs if it’s a last ditch effort after extending a play. He telegraphs his screen passes when he makes them, and puts the ball in an awkward spot where it’s hard to make a move for the reciever.
I don’t know I think alot of Carroll’s perceived weaknesses offensively have been due to the limitations of Wilson’s game rather than just the refusal to change. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but I’m more excited for this year than I have been for awhile. I think Geno gets a bum wrap for being “boring” based on a few games where he wasn’t even given the keys to the car. I just rewatchwd the Saints game. Man they could have won that. In the rain, wind, playing boring football and solid defense. Meyers misses two field goals and the defense commits two very stupid penelties, or else they win. They played two tough slightly above .500 football teams with the mentality of “just don’t screw it up, Geno” and they were a stone’s throw from winning both. If they were 3-0 or even 2-1 the feeling is different. I know it was Jacksonville but Geno looked really good in that game. The deep shot to Lockett on the td that hot called back was really a pretty throw, and he was efficient and decisive all game.
Even in the preseason he looked decent I’ve thought. A few mistakes and bad beats, a lot of penelties and alot of drops. The throw on the sideline last week in my opinion was perfect. People argue he underthrew it, I disagree. Perhaps he could have squeezed it deep for 6 but it would have been close, instead he dropped it in the soft spot for a gtd 41 yards, and the reciever still had a chance to make the over the top help miss. A play or 2 later he throws a perfect jump ball an the same side that only his guy could get to Melton… dropped. Another beautiful ball. Here are his deep passes this preseason
https://twitter.com/cmikesspinmove/status/1561847152216662016?s=20&t=9xKBK5eoW7XlnmqRP1cAtA
I guess I’m more stoked at the potential of seeing how the team plays without playing Wilsonball than I would be another season of Wilsonball, and I’m not willing to write Geno off as boring or bad just because he lost 2 close ones in which he wasn’t even given the keys, after seeing him dominate a bad team. I don’t think he’s the answer long term, and I will be equally excited to watch Drew Lock play, again not thinking he’s the future necessarily just seeing how a wilsonless seahawks team looks. I’m also not ready to say everything Wilson Era is Carroll’s only offense, just that it was all he would dial up for Wilson. I get the feeling every OC was just like scratching their head trying to figure out why Wilson wouldn’t attempt basic check downs or have the ability to audible to a quick slant when it’s obvious the pressure is coming.
I happily took over 6 wins this year for Seattle and also bet the Broncos to not make the playoffs. I’m not expecting a deep run this year or anything but I imagine the are close to a .500 ball club
I’m getting such a weird feeling when I read “you know what, Russ wasn’t that good, thank god we have Geno now”, when you say yourself that Geno was decent this preseason. Wilson was never decent, not even in his worst games, not even in the Championship games against the Packers when he couldn’t stop throwing interceptions. Russ is in a totally different conversation. I fail to comprehend how can anyone choose a backup that would have a hard time getting a job elsewhere over a guy who’s won a SuperBowl and whose production has been just incredible over the years.
Hmm. What I said was it was time for a change. I’m not nor never did say that Geno is better than Wilson. I do think the money saved, picks acquired, players acquired is better for their future. Why are you putting quotation marks around something I never said as if it was my words. That’s weird man
Saying Wilson is always great tho is beyond bizarre. The Wilson lead Seahawks have been outright awful in many games. Dude you think Wilson has never had a bad game? OK. Agree to disagree. Don’t worry I won’t put any fake quotes up changing what your whole point as if it were your words tho
I’m sorry for the quotes but this was the message I got. You were saying that Geno isn’t actually that bad. Geno isn’t much better for Seattle just because we got the picks – we’re also doing great at missing on them, see Walker who I’m already afraid might turn into Eskridge 2.0 vs. Pierce who is touted a star. Geno is one of the few players in our roster I’m not able to give a chance at becoming special. Because he is not. Wilson had plenty of bad games, bad plays, but there was no doubt that he is special.
Wow.
This is great. I almost bit on the “Wilson’s not elite.” Then you righted the plane through turbulence by doing a whole story problem on why Geno is actually good if only “x and y thing happened,” and a ton of stuff about OC’s who have never been considered top of their field. But now it’s all good because Geno “literal bust” Smith is going to steer the ship.
I actually said the opposite. I think he can play serviceable football. I’m excited to see a Pete Carroll team without Wilson. But again I don’t think Geno is the long term answer long term, though, if he wins the competition, I could see him being a solid vet player who fits what Pete wants to do. I clearly stated I don’t think they will make a deep run, as the team is retooling with the picks they got for Wilson over the next year or so. Doesn’t mean they have to crash and burn in the meantime. I just personally don’t get the Geno hate or the blind Wilson love. If that’s who Carroll decides to start, I’ll root for the guy and not trash on him repeatedly until he deserves it. At which point Carroll will move on to Lock and/or the draft/free agency
Here’s the thing and it’s actually a really big deal. Don’t get the geno hate wilson love, fine.
I’ll counter with this: I don’t get the faith in Pete that you have. A solid vet who fits what Pete wants to do? What even is that anymore? Penny was a borderline bust, the run game sucks, the defense last year was trash.
So when people say I’ll trust in Pete, why? Adam’s, clowney, richardson trades didn’t work and that all came after whiffing on the 2017 draft and we’re looking at 2019 being a total bust. When Pete says Geno’s the guy….I take a look at how awful Geno’s career has been thus far and raise a suspicious glance since it’s coming from the same coach who thought Malik McDowell was the man as opposed to tj watt, Buddha baker, and a half dozen other pro bowlers/all pros still in the league.
the guy drafted Wilson and one of the best defenses ever from scratch, took them to 2 superbowls. Perhaps the game has passed him up, perhaps he’s too old. I think that’s a real possibility, but I also think it’s possible he’s creating something better right now than he did over the last 6/7 years. He’s got alot of pieces going offensively. I don’t think Penny is a bust, just had some bad luck with injuries. McDowell situation you could have never guessed. I think he’s got some good recievers, TEs, RBs, and perhaps a new set of bookend tackles. He sure has missed alot drafting offensive lineman but maybe he just smacked it out of the park. I am getting really good vibes from the DBs they drafted. If at the end of this season they are competitive, and gelling on the offensive line and at corner, now he’s got a ton of picks to get a qb if need be, and some linebacker depth. I definitely see where he’s going with the team, and the building blocks are setting up nicely to get a qb in a good situation, with playmaker and an offensive line, plus a decent defense. I think either Lock or Geno will have a tough little bit ahead of them, see what you got tho. If either of these guys look good this year then you got a cheap fix, and if not they got good draft capital and someone who took a beating while the line developed.
Has he got a lot of pieces?
Or does he have a super thin roster with some young players we ‘hope’ work out
That’s what most teams are. I think he has a great offensive skill position roster, sans qb. Probably one of the best at reciever/RB/TE in the league. I like what I’ve seen from the OTs in preseason. I think the false start thing with Cross is just growing pains. Brooks, Adam’s, Diggs, Taylor, and alot of hopefuls at corner(if Carroll knows one thing it’s DBs) I like what I’ve seen from Mafe. I mean it’s not the 2014 seahwaks roster but they have alot of draft capital and some solid pieces IMO
Like I said, they have some young players we hope emerge.
Aside from that, there’s very little, currently, to hang your hat on.
That’s not a ‘lot’ of pieces, is it
I don’t agree with this at all. Dissly is an overpaid blocking TE who hasn’t delivered as a receiver since his last injury – and I really liked his start. Fant is at the level of a promising TE, his preseason wasn’t best, and we still don’t know how to use him. At RB we are one (very likely Penny) injury away from starting Dallas or Homer. DK and Tyler are top but we lack depth at WR, Swain might get cut, Eskridge needs to get in shape after starting a second season with an injury. The OLine gives signs of life, but I want to see them against a real opponent, not backups. I’m worried about the Blythe-Jackson gap in the middle of the line. And at CB we have a bunch of cheap solutions and a couple young promises. It would be awesome if Woolen and Bryant turn into starters but they might not and then we play Sidney Jones and Jackson. We have a great roster bar QB if all promises come true, but then we wake up and we look at the reality that we have just a few players in our team who would be starters for a SuperBowl contender.
I get that people are shocked by Dissly’s contract, but that’s what the market was offering him. I also don’t understand the characterization of him as a blocking TE who’s not good in the passing game. Last time I checked, people can only catch the balls that are thrown to them. He has a career reception rate of over 80% and has only been credited with 4 drops in 4 years. Perhaps, if we were still planning on running the same offense; one that largely ignored passing to TEs in the MOF; then it might be an overspend. However, I don’t think any of the QBs on the roster have a reluctance to looking at those passes. Unlike others, I will not say RW couldn’t make those throws, because he could, but he, for whatever reason, didn’t like targeting TEs on crossers between zones in the MOF. Hopefully, we will see both Will and Fant utilized more often in the ‘22 version of the offense. I’d be happy with an offense that was less skilled, but less one dimensional.
I think it’s more a case of he’s proven to be a crap quarterback
Heeeyyy….look at this!
I agree 100% with you Rob!😁
Geno is not good or solid or decent. Unless, you are referring to him as a backup. Then I might…might be willing to give him the decent backup label.
I never liked him coming out of college and when he punched a teammate over $600 I wrote him off as a quality NFL QB. He has done nothing to reverse that opinion. It bugs me that he’s our QB right now.
I don’t mind watching lousy football this year (as long as players are developing) but I just don’t think I can watch every game to it’s completion if Geno starts all 17 games.
Wasn’t it Geno who hot punched over 600 dollars? Breaking his jaw? Or was there another incident? Seems like a simple 30 second Google search could save you writing off a player, unless there was another event I missed
He didn’t punch, he got punched. He showed no respect for that player and frankly, I don’t blame him for breaking his jaw. As soon as that happened I wanted nothing to do with Geno, yet here we are. Let’s not even discuss the “accident” at the end of last season. Not only does Geno suck…he is a loser!
So a random altercation which you weren’t a part of, didn’t see, in which a scrub player sucker punched a starting quarterback, broke his jaw and immediately
got kicked off the team, makes you write off the dude for life? You’ve never been in a fight? Or been rude to someone? Sounded like he didn’t make the trip because he had to go to a friend’s funeral, said he would pay, hadn’t yet. 600 bucks, nfl players. Dude gets suckered punched, you write him off for life, and didn’t even see the situation just heard random gossip about it. Interesting
Yep, interesting.
I can write off the college thing as a lot of current NFL heroes had college issues, but I think the January arrest when Geno was erratically driving 96 in a 60 almost certainly while drunk, then threatening the cops by saying “You don’t want to see me out of these cuffs, you don’t want to know what will happen” pretty much validates his concerns. How this isn’t brought up regularly since it happened after Ruggs is beyond me.
💯 Big Boi and that has nothing to do with his abilities or lack thereof as a QB. Inexcusable from a supposed mature man.
What was the college thing?
Geno stiffed a guy when he said he’d fly in, they agreed Geno would pay this lower earner $600 and Geno kept stalling and/or forgetting.
Sometimes it’s not a matter of a (relatively) small amount of cash, but a matter of being a stand-up adult who doesn’t ignore a debt that a team mate has to bring up a dozen times.
One would think Geno has grown up. But he still drove under the influence recently. So maybe he hasn’t grown up.
Sorry, replied to the wrong comment
It shows character, or lack thereof. I’m not rude to people. Never have been. Always show respect until they show they aren’t worthy of respect. Then, they have to earn it back, if they want it.
Pay your debts. Honor your word.
I wrote Geno off as a quality QB and leader, yes. Not life. Way to jump 5 levels…
And, no, he has done nothing to change my opinion.
My error. Yes, Geno got punched…
Jordan84,
Interesting and thoughtful comment. Years ago PC should have traded away Wilson, prior to his last big contract. PC doesn’t need an elite (and expensive) QB to lead his offense. He needs a stifling defense and an effective run game, one that sets up occasional deep shots. Wilson and PC have been a mismatch since Wilson’s first big contract, and that is how I interpret your perspective, and somewhat agree with it.
Not that Wilson can’t be great. Perhaps in Denver he will get to run an offense more suitable to his tastes, we’ll see.
Not that Geno is the answer, as you state clearly. Only that Geno probably better fits what PC wants to do, and that’s another way of saying what I hear from you.
Drafting an elite prospect in 2023 on a 5 year rookie contract is exactly what will likely complete the team that PC and JS seem to be building.
While this may not be the year, it appears as if it’s a good start, and that is another message I am getting from your post.
To clarify, I am not necessarily endorsing PC’s overarching strategy (although it led directly to 2 super bowls, both while Wilson was still on a rookie contract) nor am I endorsing all of his decisions (the Adams trade a major head scratcher). I am pointing out that based on what PC wants to do, and how he expects to win, post-rookie-contract Wilson wasn’t a good fit.
Getting a rookie QB and spending more towards an elite defense better suits PC’s desired approach to team building. As has been argued many times on this site, that appears to be the plan, with the Smith/Lock duo simply biding time and perhaps leading this young team towards providing excellent draft capital for 2023.
He was a perfectly fine fit
The relationship just broke down because they have very different ideas on how to win
Exactly – they were incompatible in how they wanted to play the game.
Only at the end
Carroll literally paid Wilson a mega deal twice. He would do it again for a similar player in a heartbeat
He did, and I think it was a mistake (from PC’s perspective). Both times, and all of us (including PC) have lived with the results. It is clear that he wasn’t going to pay Wilson a third time and perpetuate the mistake (from PC’s perspective).
As far as the incompatibility, it became public within the last few years, and has been a point of contention for more than that.
It was so much of an issue, the Seahawks and Wilson agreed to the biggest deal in NFL history… in 2019
Geno does not fit Carroll better than Wilson
That is preposterous
Geno is cheap, will not resist what PC wants to do, will not make waves in the media and the locker room, and will position the team to draft the future QB in 2023.
The Seahawks never sniffed a Super Bowl after Wilson was paid, but just good enough (in large part due to Wilson’s effectiveness) to keep them in the playoffs with late round draft picks.
It was an untenable situation that the Seahawks are now free of. It is now possible that PC/JS can build and lead the team that might, within the next couple of years, compete for a championship.
Is that likely? I don’t know, perhaps not. But at least it’s a new team with a new direction, with a number of young, talented players with unknown upside, and that’s what makes this season different, and in some ways better, than the previous few.
Well said JAFreeman. Geno Smith, if he wins the job. Will play safe football, cause no problems, and be a good team mate, all while the team is maintaining a competitive mindset. If he takes a step forward, he could lead the team for some years, if he is outright horrible, they have a better set of picks next year and a reason to go get a qb. Also you don’t want a rookie qb to come into a situation with a rookie offensive line, and a fanbase that will turn on you in a second with sky high expectations after Wilson, and you don’t want the team to not see that winning is a possibility
There is zero evidence of this in Smith’s NFL career
The whitewashing of Geno’s NFL career this offseason has been nothing short of stunning.
Pete Carroll went on Salk last year and literally said they’d have won the games RW missed if he’d been healthy and playing instead of Geno.
Carroll would have Mahomes, Allen or Rodgers in an instant if he could
Fact
On a rookie contract, sure.
The “can’t win with a big QB contract” is old and busted.
Let it go
Let it go
Turn away and slam the door
Cha, with all due respect, that is not what I am suggesting.
I think there are many ways to structure a championship team. For instance, you can pay an elite QB and build the team around the passing offense, like the Bills or the Chiefs (or the Rams) and perhaps win a Super Bowl.
Of all the options, which one is best? I can’t say, but I can say how PC wants to build a championship team, because he has said it repeatedly and done it. With a historically great defense, a pounding rushing attack featuring Lynch, and a second year QB in Wilson, they won their first Super Bowl in team history.
They make it to the SB the following year utilizing the same PC approach.
At this point in his career (his second and third year) Wilson was not the elite QB he was to become, yet operating PC’s offense very effectively.
Run the ball, limit turnovers, control the clock, play devastating defense and take your shots down field — that’s how PC wants to win championships.
That being the case, PC does not need to pay elite-level salaries at the QB position. Doing so hampers his ability to field the team he wants to field. He is now free of that impediment, along with a conflict with his star QB, and now has the opportunity to again build a great defense and draft a good QB next year and have him for five years on a rookie contract.
So we as fans are now out of the Wilson holding pattern we have been in for years. Now PC has another opportunity to build and field a team he believes will compete for championships.
Is it the only viable approach to winning championships? No. Is it possible to win championships paying a QB $40mil a year? Probably.
Will PC and JS take full advantage of this opportunity and create a multiple-championship team? Who knows?
I think much of the criticism on this site of their team-building and decision making is well founded. Perhaps the game has passed PC by, or he is simply too old. That is certainly a possibility.
2022 will be a rough ride, but I am hoping it is worth it. And hoping that PC can still bring the magic, and by 2024/25 we again see the Seahawks playing in February.
You’re talking in circles. And somehow pretending that somebody put a gun to PC and JS’s head and made him pay RW a big contract. Twice.
PC and JS frittered millions of dollars and packs of high draft picks on bad decisions. That’s why he never won more. Not being hindered in ‘building a great defense’ by RW’s contract.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-russell-wilsons-salary-is-not-holding-back-the-seahawks
Wrong
Carroll would take all on their current deals right now
Nonsense to suggest otherwise
As if he’d prefer Geno Smith on a million to Mahomes
Jesus wept
Then I am spewing nonsense, see my reply to Cha above.
I am not suggesting he would prefer Smith to Mahomes (regardless of contract). What I am suggesting is that he would prefer drafting a QB in 2023 and pay him on a rookie contract than paying any QB (including Mahomes) $40mil a year.
But this is a silly argument, because we don’t know what PC would do if offered an elite QB at megabucks a year.
Oh wait, we do know, because he passed that up by trading away Wilson.
Well he paid Wilson twice and I’m sure he would have been delighted to keep the guy, but Wilson wanted something else and moved out.
Carroll’s revealed preference was to pay RW a princely sum when RW was in his prime but equally a subsequent revealed preference was to refuse paying close to 50 million a year for an early to mid thirties RW.
I think he would’ve paid him $50m if Wilson was still fully prepared to play Pete-ball
After all, $50m is simply the new $35m —- the obscene amount they were willing to pay Wilson just three years ago
This divorce was mostly based on philosophy, not salary
That’s like saying that Mahomes or Rodgers or Allen don’t fit what PC wants to do, and therefore he’d much rather roll with Geno.
I would say that. PC does not need an elite (or does not think he needs), $35mil/year QB to win a championship. What he needs is a competent QB that takes up a smaller percentage of his cap, a stifling defense and a good run game. That is how PC thinks he can win championships. He doesn’t need a Mahomes, or a Wilson or a Rodgers to do that.
That is not the same as saying Smith is more suited to Carroll than an elite QB on a good contract
Agreed. I suggest PC needs at least a ‘competent QB’, which eliminates Geno Smith, as I think Geno is just north of terrible, and therefore the perfect QB for Seattle right now because he won’t win many games, putting the team in a great position to draft a future star at the position (on a five year rookie contract).
In other words, the team plan, as interpreted by you some weeks ago, when Seattle held their water and didn’t waste a pick in a sub-par QB class, and instead going with the otherwise less-than-adequate Smith/Lock tandem, is working.
I am excited about this team. They may start two rookie CB’s and two rookie OT’s, because they are that good. They have two of the best WR’s in the league, two exciting edge rushers in Mafe and Taylor, and up-and-coming LB in Brooks, and the best RB combo since Lynch. Will it all pan out? Who knows, but like Jordan84, I am excited to see them play this year, and look forward to seeing a competitive team in 2023 (fingers crossed).
Thank you, Jorden84. You said much of what I might have written, only better. Especially in pointing out the Wilson weaknesses that no one here has yet contradicted— You need to consistently make first downs to win at football, and Wilson got worse and worse at supplying them. Some days he reminded me of that little leaguer who is so obsessed with hitting home runs that he ends up striking out over and over when all he really needed to do was put the ball in play. I agree that a change might be refreshing. No where do I see you trying to say that Geno will be an adequate replacement for Wilson, rather I see you saying that there is evidence in his play last year that the results this year might not be as disastrous many are assuming they will be.
Why would anyone need to make that point?
Nobody is arguing here that Wilson was perfect or flawless. We’ve spent years pouring over the pro’s and con’s of Wilson’s play — as has every other Seahawks related website and Seahawks Twitter.
This is a well trodden path. You don’t get to come on here as a first time commenter and suggest these conversations haven’t been had, numerous times.
It’s a good job they now have a quarterback who can lead seven scoreless drives against the Bears backups and carries a record of outright mediocrity throughout his career instead…
And there were far more days where he led this team to the greatest run of winning seasons it has ever had, produced absolute magic and, more often than not, carried the Seahawks on his back.
Who exactly is this aimed at?
It appears to be a counter argument plucked out of thin air, to disagree with a man of straw…
***************
Part of the problem, which I fear will go on for months now, is people are increasingly going to talk absolute bollocks about Russell Wilson because he’s no longer with the team so he’s now granted enemy/not good anyway/glad he’s gone status.
Then, when people push back against the bollocks, we’ll see conversations like this.
Uh, The comment was directed to Jordan84 to support a comment he made that reflected many of my feelings about the upcoming season , And which many of the responders seemed to be misunderstanding. As for being a first time commentor, it is true that I have only made a comment about six times in the last 10 years, but I have read every single blog entry and most of the comments in that time, And it has been so satisfying that I rarely read anything else about the Seahawks, and I would like to thank you once and for all for putting together a terrific blog, and if after all that, I don’t get to come in and say what I did, well, you’re the boss.
You don’t get to imply this community (like every other Seahawks community) hasn’t poured over Wilson’s pro’s and con’s for years. Because we have.
This is something we may never get a proper answer to.
The opener at Indy was a beauty. A sight to behold. The misdirection in the run game, Chris Carson being utilized so creatively, a zombie offensive line keeping a great Colts DL in check. The Lockett bombs. The use of Will Dissly as if someone finally remembered he can be a weapon in the passing game.
Then the rest of the year happened.
The Tennesee game where the Seahawks couldn’t run the ball to burn clock to save their lives.
I’ll still never get over the PIttsburgh game plan. Geno’s first start in years. They come out in the first half and call 4 – count ’em – 4 running plays. Three of those four are gangbusters. 7 yards, 7 yards, 6 yards.
But they call 16 passing plays. 16 passing plays to 4 runs! Geno is predictably sacked twice and the Steelers sniff out these cute little short passes for minimal or no gain.
Pete is interviewed at halftime and is as perturbed as I’d seen him. He says they have to run the ball. Sounds to me like that game plan was Waldron’s bright idea.
The New Orleans game. DK is clearly dominating Lattimore. Yet they keep plunging runners into the middle of the line and Kyle Fuller is regularly getting beat by a linebacker.
Even the Jacksonville unicorn game. They only gained 229 yards.
The Washington game. DK isn’t targeted until late in the 3rd quarter.
It cannot all be Carroll. It just cannot.
I think the wind and rain played into that decision in the new orleans game, as well as the way the game played out. Wind, rain, Geno Smith, up early. They couldn’t get the run game going but needed to try… if Meyers doesn’t miss two field goals and the defense doesn’t give up a back breaking roughing the passer penalty they maybe squeek away with a tough win vs a tough team in the rain and wind with a backup qb while running for under 3 yards a tote. I didn’t hate it. Had Geno not taken a big sack to push a field goal to near 50 yards that was missed they are in good shape.
Then with Pittsburgh now you’re saying in the fair weather that they should be doing the very thing you criticize them for doing the next game in the rain, running the ball. I agree it would have been nice there to smash the ball more, but I get the idea of trying to mitigate the pass rush by spreading the ball out laterally and getting it out quick, something that you are not game planning on when playing Seattle , while also limiting turn overs and getting Geno some easy completions. Didn’t work really, but I like the idea personally
They played that game with zero creativity. If you can’t throw the ball in the wind and rain you don’t belong in the NFL. Particularly in Seattle.
And I’m not saying they should have bombs away’d on every play. Metcalf was OWNING Lattimore. He was primed and ready for a big night. New Orleans even adjusted their defense to give the Seahawks plenty of crossers and other short passing opportunities. The Seahawks didn’t adjust. That was a huge tactical error.
What part of “Geno’s first start in years” didn’t you understand? And unlike the New Orleans game, they had smashing success running the ball. When they finally got around to adjusting they moved down the field.
“Ownership, the front office and Pete Carroll can’t assume people will tolerate a bad product”
I suspect they are aligned and expect a rough year with the potential and goal to build the foundation for the future. Next year we have 4 picks in the first two rounds, potentially all very good picks to replenish the roster with even more high quality talent. I think their plan depends on a big IF. If the team shows good growth and potential as they lose games competitively. But if they start losing games in ugly fashions and show no improvement or growth then we’ll see cracks in their plans. I am pretty excited by addition of so many promising young talent in this recent draft, added to a small number of solid vets. How they perform and grow will be key. As well as how they are coached. I have more faith on the defensive side with the new additions. But as you said the jury is still out on Waldron.
To leave this on a slightly positive note, it is not all rosy elsewhere in the Niner land after giving up three 1st round picks to draft their QB of the future. It is a sad commentary that our enjoyment has to come from others’ misery. Thank you for the great job as always.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-good-and-not-so-good-from-day-17-of-49ers-training-camp-trey-lance-throws-three-interceptions/ar-AA10XJtM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8ed8c3cc383c4ee88e22a75053dbd5a9
Good piece. I go back to when Pete signed his extension. If memory serves, it came early in the 2020 season, after several wins that could easily have gone the other way (the goal-line stop on Cam Newton and the Pats; the 4th down TD pass by Russ with no time left to beat the Vikes; etc.). I always wonder if Pete himself saw how the team was walking a very thin tightrope, and so there may not ever be a better time to get an extension than right then – because it might not last. If that was the real thinking, then I guess kudos to Pete for playing his cards right, but then he’s stringing us all along until HE decides he’s had enough, which is a bit demoralizing.
I would be fine if we had another 2011-style season with Pete at the helm where at least it felt like we were building something. My fear is that not only are we bad, but that we’re bad with no apparent direction. If through October it really does feel like the latter, then I would pivot to hoping we fare so badly (i.e., blowout after blowout) that Pete-speak rings hollow to Jody Allen and there’s no justification for him continuing.
FWIW Bay Area reporter Matt Maiocco says the Niners think Jimmy G will end up in Seattle.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/160278-insider-49ers-believe-jimmy-garoppolo-end-seahawks/
Man I hope not. Turns out Jimmy G isn’t a good qb. He’s got quality back up stats playing with a loaded niners.
That 20 tds / 12 interceptions I think are very much there for Geno to get all by himself.
Rob, Very thoughtful article, which do you think is better for the long term future of the seahawks
Go 8-9 pick 3rd best qb in draft and stick with Pete
Go 3-14 pick best qb in draft and hire Sean Payton as head coach
I go with number 2, short term pain for long term gain
2 all day.
I think that’s an easy question to answer
You forgot #3, which I’m afraid is a distinct possibility. We end up with the #1 overall pick and Pete talks John into taking Will Anderson Jr and then using the Broncos’ pick- which, to be fair, could be mid-teens to late-twenties- to select the 5th best QB. I just hope they don’t get lulled into a false sense of security that nailing one draft allows them to go back to the cutesy draft habits of thinking they’re smarter than everyone else and decide to wait until the third round for a QB because it worked for them before….
Noooooooooooo! God. Nooooooooooooo!
I would be fine trading back from 1 to 3 and taking will anderson then trading up with Denver pick, the additional capital acquired and other picks if necessary to get qb. It will ultimately though depend on how the college qb’s do this season. At this stage Levis or Van Dyke may be able to be drafted outside the top 5 picks…but will anderson will surely go in the top 3.
If Jody Allen won’t pay for the Trailblazers radio guys to travel with the team, I doubt she’ll pay Pete to not coach, so we have to give up on the idea of him being fired. That means 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025 with Pete. I’m also not bought into the theory that he will get tired of losing and “see the writing on the wall” and retire as we’re talking about somewhere north of $40 million that he’s guaranteed if he stays on. I don’t care how rich he is- if he’s now found himself in a position that he can keep making over $10 million per year regardless of the product on the field, I don’t see him retiring and leaving that behind.
I’ve been saying this for months and the Blazers situation just reinforced how she wants to do business. She’s a flat out joke. Pete is going nowhere UNLESS it’s of his own volition and she doesn’t have to pay him to NOT coach the Seahawks. And like you said, I don’t see him walking away from that dough plus considering his personality, I don’t think he’ll admit himself he can’t turn this around.
You know I’m glad you included this. For all the “grass is greener” kind of thinking, sometimes, the devil you know is better.
I still respect Carroll as a coach, and at least until I see further proof otherwise, also as a leader of young men. I think his greatest strength lies not in the x’s and o’s of his football philosophy, but in his ability to motivate, earn buy-in and elicit greatness from his players. And whatever I think about him now, his history is littered with greatness from his players.
What really turns me off about Carroll is the sense of disrespect, of condescension, in the way he approaches Seattle sports media, and thus, Seahawks fans. Can you imagine Mike Tomlin answering a serious, important question about the team or a key player with one of Pete’s dismissive platitudes? Even Jim Harbaugh, whom I consider to be relentlessly optimistic, nonetheless shows directness, accountability and responsibility that I can’t remember the last time I saw from Carroll.
And what really worries me at the moment is the sense that Carroll doesn’t have control of the team’s culture anymore. Unless his culture is “shambolic” now (great descriptor btw). I haven’t seen the Seahawks field an actual team in either preseason game so much as a bunch of top athletes all running around doing their own thing. I mean, have you seen the special teams play?
If things go sideways this year (or would that be dead ahead, given what we’ve seen), I can envision a situation where Carroll all but runs himself out of town. And that would be so tragic. For the man, for the team, for Seahawks nation. That’s an organizational wound that could fester.
Agreed 100%. And I’d add that I don’t think a top 5 pick is unrealistic, given what we’ve seen thus far.
Need an Offensive Coordinator who can work under Pete Carrol ? Who won’t be leaving to become a Head Coach ? And can offer the coaching, environment and stability to develop a Seahawks draft pick into a Pro Bowl calibre QB? What I’m reading here is… bring back Darrell Bevell!
/sarcasm
Thank you Gregg Bell for pressing Pete on the QB situation.
“I may not be doing it as quickly as YOU think but I’m doing it on MY schedule.”
“I know the saying if you have two quarterbacks, you don’t have any. But we might have two ones.”
Seriously?
Does Pete have any idea how much money he is leaving on the table not being a political consultant for messaging and communications
I half expect after every press conference a pre recorded voice starts to say…
“I’m Pete carrol and I support this message.”
At one point he said Geno is in the lead.
Then he said they were about even.
Then he decided to take us 50 years back in time and lecture us that the perfect 72 Dolphin team didn’t have a great QB.
It’s getting weird.
Pete loves to wax lyrical on philosophy and history
He’s not a big fan of being pinned down
But more than ever, pinning down is required
I think that Pete told us his offense philosophy for this year during that press conference. Waxing about the 72 Dolphins and other teams that were great decades ago. Theses teams won a lot of games by running the ball and passing sparingly. They didn’t need quality QBs to win Championships back then. Take a look at even legens such as Bradshaw’s or Namath’s TD/INT ratio, it was a totally different game. Compare stats of a more recent legend like Montana to even someone like Rivers.
There are obvious issues with this wishful thinking:
1. Defensive Players are bigger, stronger and faster. It is very difficult to run the ball against a stacked box. You need at least some kind of threat of a passing game to open up running lanes and keep the Safties out of the box.
2. His RB1 Penny hasn’t played anywhere close to a full season and RBs don’t get healthier in their late 20s. Ezekiel Elliott has had a much better career and he is already washed up. Hid RB2 KW is already hurt. Homer and Dallas are definitely JAG. This doesn’t seem the recipe for an outstanding rushing attack.
2. Or you need a superior athletic QB like Lamar Jackson that can run around defenders. A superior athletic QB is definitely not on this roster
3. These teams had dominant defenses. Is the Seahawks 2022
overall defense even going to be rated aa average? That would be an improvement on the past few years where they lead the league in total plays and had horrible lopsided Time of Possesions in most games.
Wish Gregg bell would have followed up with a first grade math book and said “my sources tell me that if you have two ONES then you still have two of something. So a follow up. Does the original adage still apply in this instance since if we can determine that the team does in fact have TWO qbs, ergo, none?”
I literally LOLd when he said “we might have two ones”. SNL skit worthy material. Can’t even try to make it up.
Seattle has two 2’s.
Great, great piece of work here – there seem to be so many “unknowns” surrounding this team that emanate from the top and have no clear answers. Because of that, I believe that the Seahawks will not be a functioning, contending team until they are sold to new ownership. I know it’s preseason, but this team is about as prepared to play a real game as I am to be an astronaut. (I am not at all prepared to be an astronaut, if you’re curious. Not a fan of heights and such, so…)
Yes, Pete sold some part of his legacy when he signed the extension – maybe it was the cash, maybe it was hubris, but he lent legitimacy to Jody Allen’s tenure for a big price. Yes, it gave him almost total control of an NFL franchise, but all signs point to that being a disastrous decision by any measurable that has been covered (at least on this site) ad nauseam. Assistant coaches, style of play, drafting, development, in-game decision making – add your own metric here and it’s an area of concern under Pete. Even if the wheels fall of this season, something certainly in-play at the moment, would Jody Allen replace Pete for one year if she’s planning to sell in ‘24? He’s more likely to walk away.
And, my god, I do not want for Pete to be involved with the drafting of the next quarterback.
The franchise is treading water, going nowhere, and the only solution is new leadership at the top. Until Jody Allen decides to sell, this is what it’s going to be.
Eight months ago, Pete was crowing about the Seahawks, after beating a Cardinals team that was rapidly deteriorating, being a team that no one would want to face in the playoffs. “There are the makings of the next Super Bowl team in that locker room,” he said. Really. That came, of course, was when there were questions about whether he would be retained. Now, reality has come calling in the form of Geno Smith, years of poor drafting, lousy free agency signings, and iffy assistant coaches, most of whom who would not hold their current positions for any other team in the league. Those Super Bowl vibes he pitched in January are laughable, if you’re into tragicomedy.
I agree with almost all of this article except the initial argument that you have to pair a young QB with an offensive minded head coach. The Bills’ Josh Allen was drafted and developed by Sean McDermott, the Ravens drafted Lamar Jackson under John Harbaugh, both defensive minded HC who appointed good OCs for their QBs but i would say still deserve much of the credit. And I wouldn’t expect Allen to regress too much now Daboll has left.
On the flip side you have Herbert who was drafted by Offensive HC Anthony Lynn, now replaced by a defensive guy who, despite a disappointing end of the year, seems to have the Chargers on the rise. Similarly we all saw the disaster of the Trevor Lawrence Urban Meyer pairing.
I don’t think you were working in absolutes, but I basically don’t think it’s as simple as offensive vs defensive. Quality remains the main thing I care about, now whether PC can still be a quality HC remains to be seen. I know some might say the ship has already sailed, I’m not quite there yet but I also wouldn’t be too upset if he called it a day after this year.
Was he? Or did he only turn the corner with Daboll and who knows what happens now?
And they’ve had to use the Greg Roman offense ever since. Without it, what then?
Yep. It appears important to have the tenured OC in place for sure.
Herbert would be the most recent example of a young QB performing at a high level in spite of instability and turnover amongst his offensive coaches.
I think Daboll was in place since Allen’s first year, so it’s hard to specifically say that he only turned it around because of Allen rather than McDermott. Remains to be seen what happens now, but I’d be shocked if it’s anything like Ryan losing Shannehan.
And the Lamar example is a case of bringing in the right man for his unique QB, that’s good head coaching imo. I would argue there’s not many coaches who would have made such a decision to get the most out of him. I could see an offensive guy being more rigid in trying to fit him into their scheme.
I use these examples to push back against the general idea that you have to have an Offensive HC in the modern NFL. I see the Ryan/Shannehan example used so much and, whilst that is 100% an example of needing to keep the OC in place, I think it’s become overstated as Ryan was a vet in the league by that point who has never shown that level of play before or since. It was obvious who was the driving force behind those Atlanta teams.
Equally, seems like a fairly significant stretch on your behalf to credit the defensive Head Coach with no track record or experience on offense or QB coaching rather than the tenured offensive coordinator for developing the quarterback — especially since that OC has now been appointed as a Head Coach elsewhere because he’s been credited for his work with Josh Allen.
But we’re not reviewing Harbaugh’s ability to place the QB with the right OC.
We’re discussing where Baltimore would be if they suddenly lost the coordinator who setup a run-heavy offense for Kaepernick and has now done the same for Lamar.
So sure — if the Seahawks draft a QB who can play for such an unattractive, douchey OC who runs a very specific, limiting offense then that’s fine and dandy. Can’t see any of the 2023 crop fitting the mould frankly.
That’s not the idea though.
This is:
There’s a point of view I’ve spent a lot of time considering over the last few months and increasingly, I agree with it.
Mike Florio is the source of the opinion. He believes when you draft a young quarterback it’s important to pair them with an offensive minded Head Coach. That way, if the offense succeeds, you won’t lose the coach (and the offense) to another team seeking to appoint the next ‘hot-shot’ offensive mind as their leader.
I don’t know how to do the green quote thing so I’ll respond with numbers.
1: I’m crediting him with building a spectacular culture and roster around the QB that facilitated his rise. Daboll deserves a lot of credit too of course, and I expect good things from him in New York. My point is that Allen was able to succeed with a defensive guy in place at HC, if he has a Matt Ryan like drop now that he’s gone then I’ll concede this point, but I doubt it.
2: I guess I don’t know on this one, I believe very highly in Harbaugh’s ability to make it work, but I can’t substantiate that point. My point is simply that a good HC facilitated a great situation for his QB and which I believe he could do again.
3: Fair enough, those are different points, thats what I meant but poor wording used by me. But I think my point about Ryan/Shannehan being an overstated example applies to both points. That was an extreme example where a vet QB had the possibly the best offensive mind in the league, reached spectacular heights, then fell back down to earth. I don’t see that as applicable to the examples I’ve given.
I’m not saying there’s no merit in taking an offensive guy to pair with a young QB, clearly there is, I just think the conversation is so much larger than that.
I have no idea why you’ve argued this to be honest. The point has never been that a young QB can’t succeed with a defensive head coach. It has very clearly been, and stated multiple times now, that if you do succeed and lose your OC it’s a problem.
I’m disagreeing with this statement: “when you draft a young quarterback it’s important to pair them with an offensive minded Head Coach”.
Not that losing a good OC is a problem. I think it’s an overstated problem that a good HC can overcome, but I acknowledge it can be a problem.
But you haven’t so much argued against that. You’ve argued as if the statement was ‘only an offensive head coach is acceptable’
Clearly offensive consistency for a young QB is important. And having an offensive minded HC enables that
Yeah and I do agree with that. I guess my disagreement stems from the word important, which I interpreted as saying it is failing not to have it set up that way.
In fairness I did also say at the beginning that I didn’t think you were dealing in absolutes, and I was more pushing back against what I saw as the logical conclusion from the initial argument.
Josh Allen was definitely good before Daboll got there
Given that Daboll was appointed in Buffalo several months before the Bills drafted Josh Allen, I’d beg to differ
I’m so tired of Robs voice being the only one in the realm of Seattle media to voice these truths and ask these questions. I love the site and I’ll continue to view and support it, but until the dopes with the big audience start asking real questions this negligent ownership/ leadership will continue. Caroll needed to be let go after the 2019 season. The writing was on the wall then. We all know it. Maybe I’m just so tired of listening to Pete talk and thinking I’m listening to a politician tell us everything is fine, just don’t question. I’m losing all faith that the current braintrust will get this thing right or even keep the club above water before someone with a vision comes in. Paul Allen had a vision and knew how to make things happen. He hired and fired wisely, and wasn’t afraid to admit a mistake. I’m not as old as a lot of the guys here but I remember the 90s. We were a laughing stock then. More by the day I feel like this franchise is headed back down that road.
The Seattle Seahawks seem severely misaligned, organizationally. Behind-the-scenes video footage that has come available over this offseason, especially in-house content, has aggregately struck me as indicative of disconnection. Something’s off.
The Schneider-Carroll vibe is weird, and Jody Allen’s sudden factoring into the mix on draft day made for some awkward television. John and Pete have always maintained such an evidently intimate partnership, but the rah-rah in the room registers contrived these days. Jam some protracted ownership uncertainty into the equation, and one would have to wonder how in the world any sound foundation could possibly be set when the franchise has one foot planted on the North American Plate, and the other on the Juan de Fuca.
Please understand that this is not catastrophizing. This is observing. And I could be dead-wrong in my understanding of things, considering that I’m basing so much on subjective interpretation. But I’m not gloomy about any of this, at all. I find it entertaining. Really, how can one resist a good car-wreck rubbernecking? I’m not tripping: It’s just sports.
The point is that Franchise Sale Year is the real reset fulcrum (which I believe Rob has stated previously), not the 2023 draft. Only after ownership is functionally (and publicly) firmed up long-term may any 2011 reminiscences be credibly interpreted. More specifically, until Hawk Inc. gets its tectonics figured out, further teambuilding operations, including all future drafts between now and then, will be planned and executed mostly aimlessly—assuring that ensuing Seahawks seasons will be more 2009 than 2011.
It’s a gripping study in organizational culture, behavior, and performance, really, and let’s face it: We’re not talking Boeing or Lehman Brothers here. The down years don’t cost lives, and can be recovered from without sketchy-ass M&A deals, stock buybacks, TBTF bailouts, public subsidies, etc. Besides, there will be plenty of inspired individual performances along the way, perhaps even some games where the team plays well. To Maximus I would say, yes, I am entertained.
Wait, what? You are saying that professional sports is not the be-all & end-all of existence? Damn, man. That’s cold!
I agree with you that the draft room thing was a bit weird! For me, it was the first time that I had seen Jody Allen in any sort of Seahawks context & then afterwards she left it to John & Pete to tell the press how much she was ‘into it’ rather than speaking for herself.
My presumption is that she has decided to stay in the background &, unlike Elon Musk, not say anything in public that might damage the value of the business. In a way, it’s refreshing to have someone in a position of power who isn’t obsessed with self-publicity. Although, as a fan, it is also mighty frustrating.
I wouldn’t call the spectacle gripping exactly. I think that that’s over-egging the pudding a bit. But it is, as Mr Spock would say, fascinating!
Nice article Rob! I get the feeling that you prefer to get into the nitty gritty details but I do like these big picture articles that throw out some food for thought!
Counterpoint – they probably just had their best draft in years.
I agree Rob, but unfortunately we won’t decide.
My bet goes to: Pete stays until his contract runs out, he’ll draft a QB early and after Pete leaves, Jody sells the org.
That QB might elevate everything or gets broken by Pete.
Because of this a more ideal situation for me would be:
Get JimmyG or someone who might not be a good QB but could work just enough so I can stop crying in fetal position during Hawks games. It doesn’t have to be Jimmy, it could be anyone who might not win us games but might not lose them either.
And until PC retires build a young and good core from picks between 5-15 in R1.
Get a great C, a great OG (both could be in R2), get a great TE (like Kelce, Gronk, or Ravens TEs were for example). Get a good WR3 or even WR2 as Lockett might be done by the end of this.
These positions could be filled in R2 probably.
Get a dominating DT who’s good against the run and can deliver 6-10 sacks/season (early R1)
Get 1-2 fast LB who can fly side to side and generate TFLs, turnovers (probably mid-late R1)
Get 1-2 CB who will provide some INTs (R1-R2)
Another passrusher (R1)
A good K and KR (R3-R4-R5)
And we’ll probably need safeties as Diggs is older and Peacock worth nothing (R2-3)
We might be able to get them in 3-4 years with good drafts. And after PC retires, get a young, modern, great offensive minded HC, and start to hunt for a good young QB.
We’d have a complete roster and if the last 2 puzzle pieces (QB, HC) would fall into their places, it could be an SB contender team.
And with an OKish QB the time until then could be tolerable (especially if the D starts to click)
This tickles me for some reason…
https://twitter.com/ScottJuba/status/1562192946711400450
Man, those look small …..
Sean Payton + (Hurt & Desai Combo) + Foundational 2023 Draft = Survival !!
QB: Jimmy Garappolo, 1R23
LT: Charles Cross, Stone Forsythe
LG: Phil Haynes, Jake Curhan
C: Austin Blythe, 3R23
RG: Damien Lewis, Jake Curhan
RT: Abraham Lucas, Stone Forsythe
TE: Noah Fant, Will Dissly
RB: Kenneth Walker, Rashaad Penny
RB: Travis Homer, DeeJay Dallas
WR: DK Metcalf, Dareke Young
WR: Tyler Lockett, 1R23
WR: Dee Eskridge, Bo Melton
DE: Shelby Harris, Myles Adams
NT: Bryan Mone, Poona Ford
DE: 2R23, Quinton Jefferson
OLB: Darrell Taylor, Alton Robinson
OLB: Boye Mafe, Uchenna Nwosu
ILB: Jordyn Brooks, 3R23
ILB: Cody Barton, Levi Jones
RCB: Tariq Woolen, Artie Burns
LCB: Coby Bryant, Mike Jackson
NKL: Tre Brown, Sidney Jones
FS: Quandre Diggs, Josh Jones
SS: 2R23, Ryan Neal
What compensation was sent to the Saints in exchange for hiring Payton? It isn’t apparent given the players and 2023 picks that you’ve listed on the roster.
I think Payton has his eyes on the Cowboys job after they fire McCarthy (if they have a poor season). But I’ll be very happy if I’m wrong and somehow he ends up in Seattle.
Why would Sean Payton pick a rebuild in Seattle over Tom Brady & Tyreek Hill in Miami next season?
I doubt Mike McDaniel will allow that to happen. Seems like a legit coach.
Good piece for us to think about Rob.
I don’t have faith in Pete coaching and growing a young talented QB anymore. But since every team needs a franchise QB, after our pititful 2022 season, we should be in line to pick a good one and the Hawks should grab the best one available. There’s a reason why Geno has been a career backup since not making it with the Jets so I don’t expect us to win many games this season. My only hope is that both of our rookie OTs develop as foundational players and from among Walker and Mafe and the two rookie CBs, we get at least two solid starters…all four would be great but that’s asking a lot!
Regardless, if our young players develop to become multi year starters AND we get a possible franchise QB in next year’s draft then we just suck it up and endure the remaining years of Pete’s contract. Then hope that the next coach can really get the team to fulfill their potential.
Well thought, outstanding article Rob. One of your best and that’s saying something.
I want nothing to do with Pete Carroll drafting or coaching a Levis or Van Dyke.
There’s is enough data that Pete has made good decision but they are in past
. Would love to see Sean Peyton as a new coach but is Pete done with coaching?
Rob, you nailed it, again
Based on the amount of draft picks we have in 2023 , we are going to need Robs brilliant research more than any season I can remember.
Pete Carroll’s epic fall is here right now. His teams used to be on fire for prime time games. Now he is going against his “always compete” mantra just to field a team that wont get embarrassed on prime time.
Make no mistake, this game against Denver, AKA Russell Wilson could very well be the most important game to him that he has ever coached, the Pete Carroll legacy is at stake for all the world to see.
Was it Pete Carroll’s great coaching or was it Russell Wilsons heroics that made us so good and for so long? We are about to witness what could have been with Russell Wilson.
Of course Pete would deny this and down play it like its just another game but to his inner circle, they know the truth.
Pete could end up with a big old piece of “humble pie.”
Even a football novice knows for certain that you hand off the ball to Marshawn Lynch.
Thanks for the memories Pete.
Myself I don’t see this one game as defining the legacy but I do think the entire season will. If Russ gets the Donkos into at least the Divisional round and the Hawks go like 5-12 it’ll tarnish Carroll’s legacy for sure.
It is the kind of year when alien abduction seems like a viable alternative. For me, I will treat this season as a yearlong preseason. It is a screwy world, I just live here.
Good old Mike Leach retweeted this out today, giving love to one of his former college QBs. And he’s not wrong. From talent standpoint, Minshew better than Geno/Locke.
Best career Pass TD/INT ratio among all active QB
Aaron Rodgers 4.83
Patrick Mahomes 4.08
Gardner Minshew 3.42
Russell Wilson 3.36
Tom Brady 3.07
Haha. Gardner is in mighty company.
I’m all for bringing Minshew in as a free agent next season in the name of competition. It’s always more fun to have players that you like. Add ‘the’ rookie via the draft. Possibly retain the services of whichever current QB Smith/Lock proves to be less bad.
See who bubbles up.
… and Minshew earned the vast majority of those numbers playing for a crap team.
Just a random thought I think Denver’s pick will probably be 15-20. There roster might be slightly better than the hawks roster the last 3 years but not much and who knows if Hackett is any good. I don’t think there pick we have is gonna be in the late 20s but I might be wrong
Go and get Sean Payton at all costs
While Payton would probably do wonders in Seattle, I disagree with the all costs part. I’d very much rather JS gets creative and signs us the genius OC of a team as head coach while keeping our 1st round picks.
It’s really probably time to give up on the Sean Payton thing. As Jordan pointed out above, you’d need to compensate the Saints as he is still under contract for not only this season but also 2023 and 2024. Why would the Saints take anything less than a 3rd round pick, especially from a Seahawks team that once gave a 2nd round pick for Holmgren? I mean, they have no motivation to let him out of his contract, especially to an NFC team. Couple that with the fact that the Dolphins reportedly were ready to pay him $20 million to $25 million (depending on the report) per year as well as the fact that you’re competing with the Cowboys and possibly Chargers.
To sum up the cost of acquiring Sean Payton for 2023 season:
1) At least a 3rd round pick, but very possibly higher
2) At least $15 million per year, and almost certainly higher
3) Paying Pete Carroll $30 million to not coach for us
From an “owner” that won’t pay for the Trailblazers radio guys to travel? Not bloody likely.
Face it folks. It’s the Pete and John show for 3 more years AFTER this year unless Pete can somehow be so bad that he can get himself fired (which I just don’t see his pride allowing him to do).
The Saints are not asking for a R3 coach they have moved on from
I personally don’t see them trading him to the Cowboys for a late round pick just to “get something back”, especially if there are multiple suitors. The Saints writers all think they’re getting multiple 1s, which clearly ain’t happening, but the Cowboys are essentially a rival for the Saints and I suspect they’d need something better than a 5. We’ll see, I guess.
That being said, Florio reported that Payton wants warm weather, a win-now roster, and control over personnel decisions. If even one of those things is completely true, he ain’t coming to Seattle.
The Saints and Payton have had mutual interest in a parting for some time
The GM and Payton didn’t always see eye to eye
New Orleans have moved on. They will take a token gesture next year
He’s going to Miami next year with Tom Brady and T. Hill. It almost happened this offseason. And if there was a team to pay a steep price it would be Dallas. Jerry Jones over pays if it’s “one of his guys” and I am sure he is still trying to rectify the mistake of keeping clap your hand Jason Garrett over Payton in 2010.
I know this season is going to suck but can we stop hoping for the super improbable (might as well wish for a Super Bowl appearance). Jody Allen is not selling the team anytime soon. Why sell the team, when you can head the trust for 5 more years and make another ~half billion in a latter sale? Why would any hot coaching candidate come to Seattle to rebuild and follow the only championship coach the team has ever had? Pete came here because he was a Westcoast guy trying to escape the SoCal media/USC scandal. If we hire a great coach it is going to be because the organization took a chance on someone passed by another organization.
Not if Mike McDaniel succeeds he aint
Man, based on what I’ve seen of Smith/Lock, it sure would have been nice to have Mariota in a Hawks jersey this year. He’s looked great in the preseason. But if the long-term plan is to draft a QB in round 1 next year, then maybe that wouldn’t have made sense.
Something interesting I heard from someone involved with the Sounders in regards to Allen: Lumen field needs upgrades/updates and she is unwilling to pay for them. According to this person, the idea is to let the next owner make the changes, but she doesn’t want to spend the money. If true, this simply confirms what most of us seem to think. Allen will do the bare minimum as an owner (sit in the draft room, say she never wants to sell, etc.) but is otherwise disinterested with the actual operations of the franchise. While I’ll admit this bothers me as a fan, I can understand her reticence. She didn’t buy the team, she inherited it. She may have little to no interest in football for all I know. Yet my concern is what happens in precisely the scenario Rob highlighted: a terrible season results in a torrent of fan backlash that forces Jody to fire Pete (not that I’m concerned Pete will go). A seemingly disinterested owner running a coaching search sounds like a recipe to become the Lions.
It is entirely possible that
1-the trust forbids a major undertaking such as stadium renovations
and/or
2-it makes more sense to let the new owner pursue those upgrades in two years as they’ll be able to tailor them to their desires and have more leverage with the city than Jody would
This hand wringing about Jody not spending is getting to be a bit much.
This is a team that handed Diggs $27m and DK $58m, coming off handing Lockett $37m and Adams $38m last year. And also sending nearly $30m of dead money out the door between Russ and Bobby.
It’s not like there are orders to rein in the spending for the on-field product.
To be fair, the person I spoke to specifically said she could spend the money but is opting not to. I think you’re right in saying she’s letting the next owner do it.
I also don’t think she’s limiting the onfield product, I’m fully aware of the way that money is spent under the salary cap and the rules regarding guarantees and escrow. She’s not limiting that for sure. My bigger point is that if falls a bit in line with a conversation I was lucky enough to have with Brady Henderson at a Mariners game. While Henderson is hardly Adam Schefter, he is connected with the organization and has sources. He claims there was no possibility of Jody firing Carroll last year as she didn’t want to pay his buyout. Not saying it’s gospel, just repeating what I was told. For me, these two pieces of information together signal that she’s hands-off and reluctant to spend the money to aggressively improve this team’s circumstances. Which is fine if things go well this season, again my concern is what happens if they do not. If this turns into a shambolic crapfest, I worry that she either will remain reluctant to fire Carroll, or will not put in the requisite effort to hire someone truly capable of turning this team around. Just my two cents.
I’d be very careful with giving that information any credence.
Gregg Bell last year went to the mat with the information from his ‘inside source’ that the Seahawks were not going to trade RW. Berated fans, acted like he knew better and generally refused to engage with Pete Carroll on the issue even when smoke was billowing out of the building.
I’m fully aware that he may be wrong, or was fed some story that the team wanted him to report as Bell had. I can’t even say that he’s the most plugged in guy in regards to what the Seahawks are doing. All I can say is he was extremely nice and patient with me, a random fan of the team peppering him with questions, and I thought I might share it with others. I’m very curious how ownership shakes out and all most of us can do is speculate.
Jody Allen isn’t the owner of the Seattle Seahawks. She never has been, and she never will be. She doesn’t decide (or to my knowledge does she even have input) when or for how much the Seahawks will sell.
Folks should stop thinking of her as an owner.
She probably doesn’t have input over the sale of the team, but that isn’t the point here. The point here is that until the team is sold, she DOES have control and can make decisions about the team’s future. If she’s hands-off that can be fine (better than overmanaging…looking at you Jimmy Haslam) but again, I’m concerned she will not make the requisite moves to improve this teams prospects or even just the fan experience.
Counter.
Then why is it that Jody is asked about the sale of the Seahawks and trailblazers.
My worry. She has no intention to sell anytime at all since she has repeatedly stated that winding down Paul’s interests could take between 10 and 20 years.
Who else are they gonna ask?
Doesn’t mean she has any say in the answers. And by the way, she doesn’t give any answers.
Again I don’t know. Sometimes I think the answers are right in front of us. That she isn’t going to sell because who makes her? She’s the chair of the seahawks. And already turned down Phil Knight in what could be the most logical sale to a prospective buyer for the trailblazers.
I don’t know either. It’s possible she wants to be owner and her actions/inactions are meant to make that more possible 🤷🏻♂️
But eventually the NFL will force a change in the ownership structure. A charitable trust can’t own an NFL franchise indefinitely.
That part about the nfl is true.
It’d be nice if we had any idea what Jody Allen was worth. She graduated college in 1980 and has run Vulcan with Paul since 1986. Any money she’s made has been through Paul Allen’s real estate and philanthropy companies as it doesn’t appear she was financially successful on her own before Paul. It appears she didn’t get any of Paul’s money. So is she worth $10 million or $10 billion? No clue. It could be that she gets to enjoy the billionaire lifestyle only as long as she is the head of the trust, and that once everything is sold off then so is the lifestyle, including the mansions and planes. I worry that she is just enjoying the ride for as long as she can and once it’s over, she goes back to being just a tens-to-hundreds of millions-aire, which is a very, very different thing than a billionaire.
Interestingly, we don’t know if her Mercer island house was sold last month along with all the other Mercer island mansions, but they got only 2/3 of what it was collectively worth.
About the NFL, they let the Bowlen trust run his team for what, 6 or 7 years? 2025 would coincide with the end of Pete’s contract, the stadium deal with the city, and literally every big contract on the books. Come to think of it, we won’t have any big contract extensions come up for a few years- LBers don’t get much, RB will be a revolving door, WR is done for a while, CB is done, S is done, QB is done, LT/RT is done. Probably a coincidence but something I didn’t think about- DK is the last contract drama for a while.
Another solid article with great content. I opt to:
1. Suck now and get a top 5 2023 draft pick
2. Draft our new QB of the future ( Levis?)
3. PC mutually agrees to step away from the HC and move into a front office job
4. Hire Sean Peyton if you want a veteran Offensive minded coach or Eric Bienemy or some other offensive minded
5. Build young depth
6. compete in 2024
1. Suck = top pick
2. Get a real QB
3. Get rid of Shane Waldron
4. Transition further into Saban sequence role
5. Find a OC who ideally is good enough to become a head coach one day as opposed to the previous OC’s
6. Enjoy multiple draft picks in top two rounds
7. Forget this year ever happened. Be happy with the first solid draft in years (fingers crossed)
very much looking forward to what they do at ILB next week… any potential cuts out there we should be excited about? any old SDB favorites?
OLB: Darrell Taylor, Alton Robinson
ILB: Jordyn Brooks, (Rhattigan, Donker, ?)
ILB: Cody Barton, (Muse, Jones, ?)
OLB: Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, Tyreke Smith
Further evidence that “always compete,” is just two words with no meaning.
Smith is what in preseason? 20 for 33. 200 ish yards. One rushing TD.
If always compete meant anything at all Lock would get more snaps just to see if there was anything there. If not so be it. Geno is “who we thought he is.”
Yup. The only reason to start Geno is because you’re not convinced he’s your man. You need to see more. Which is totally understandable.
But honestly, if you’re not convinced he’s your guy by the final week of preseason, shouldn’t you give the other guy the start to maybe prove he is?
Trotting out Geno for a 3rd preseason game makes zero sense. I don’t have any idea how this helps make a QB choice. Just say it Pete, Geno is the starter and stop acting like we the fans are that dumb.
Geno’s been the starter since the day RW was traded away.
might be related to Drew Lock COVID fatigue?
Pete wants top 5 pick secretly.
Serious question… what is Drew Lock’s trade value if we pick up Jimmy G?
I’m guessing, zero. Lock has some potential but he couldn’t beat out TeddyB last year and (whether we believe he was given a fair shot by Pete or not), and it’s looking like he lost to Geno here. Why would any team trade for him?
I’m also not convinced that JimmyG would choose the Hawks if he was cut by the Niners. If I was him, I’d go to Cleveland, where they already have a proven running game and a decent defense. The Hawks have DK and Locket and but have questions at OL (two rookie OTs), RBs (can Penny stay healthy and is Walker the real deal), defense (it’s still a mess with some potential in Taylor, Mafe and a solid LB and safety in Brooks & Diggs), and special teams (can they figure it out by the regular season?). JimmyG has already earned a lot of money, if I was him, I wouldn’t come to a mess of a team like the Hawks.
Tom Pelliserro The #Titans are sending a sixth-round pick to the #Eagles for Amadi and a seventh-round pick.
https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1562534307725721604
Good deal. I know lots of folks here weren’t up on Ugo but I thought he did ok. Tough year last year but more often than not I saw him around the ball making a play.
And I personally don’t buy the story that we were going to cut him. No way he was one of the 86th to 90th worst player on the team. At the very least I would have carried him until final cuts in case there was an injury or a decent trade offer. Clearly we could have gotten more for him than JJAW.
Rob – if Ronald Jones gets cut by KC is it worth trying him out?
Nah, I think they are fine at RB
IDK. The three most successful coaches the last decade plus are defensive minded HC in Belichick, Tomlin, and Carroll. They have all recently departed with long time upper echelon QB’s.
Jones looked like the best rookie from last years class and Pickett has looked like the best of their crop of QB’s with the Steelers. Wilson developed into a top 7 QB in the league in Seattle. I don’t think you have to be an offensive minded HC to be able to develop a QB you need to be able to get the pieces in place around them to be successful.
Sure you can be a defensive minded coach you just need a HOF caliber qb.
But Pete being successful and Seattle being contenders are different things. When is the last time all the pieces for this team were there? We are getting boat raced by the niners and Rams for play off wins over the last half decade.
Speaking just for me now…if Pete didn’t say goofy stuff like we are a team no one would want to face and was just more honest and said things like developing, growing, and new guys building then he would be easier to take.
He’s talking about how we might have two number one qbs. No we have guys that will play qb. There is a difference.
Right now the team looks shambolic. I’m going to say it. I don’t think anyone did anything in regards to Wilson developing. He was a killer college qb at a pro system and pete/russ leaned on each other too much for each others own good.
Firstly, any counter that includes ‘the Patriots’ always falls on deaf ears for me. They are a unicorn. Tom Brady is a freak of nature. And the Patriots haven’t done jack without him, yet he’s gone and won another Super Bowl in Tampa Bay. He pretty much was the OC in New England and he is now in TB.
Tomlin and Carroll are no more or less successful than the number of offensive minded Head Coaches who have also won Super Bowls over the years. We’ll see how Carroll gets on without his QB, because his record without Russell Wilson in the NFL is bad (something he’s admitted himself). Tomlin? Hasn’t had much success over the last few years. We’ll see how he gets on minus Big Ben.
Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Shanahan — all have had much more recent success.
That wasn’t the argument.
Anyone find it weird that “prez” hasn’t talked to the media at all this camp?
Maybe he lost his Vuitton coffee cup?
I think it’s refreshing, frankly
I attended one of the training camp and got a chance to see him in 1 ft distance, chatting. My daughter asked him to write “Best in Nation” on football and sign. He chuckle and just signed. I hope he mellow down and paying more attention to football.
Clint Hurtt on Collier: “It’s tough to make the club when you’re in the tub.”
I like that. I’m stealing that. That’s mine now.
Lj collier has got to be cut right?
His salary situation might keep him around one more year
Yeah 1st round pick contracts I guess…. But man udfa Myles adams looks way better than him
Nice Jam reference cha. It’s only a matter of time before they give him the ol’ stanky boot.
With less training time and less practice games – it feels like we are at mid-preseason of the old system.
Add in all the injured starters and a backup quarterback battle and this is going to be one weird season.
As someone said above, with Walker III having a sports hernia, they are just one Penny injury away from starting Homer and Dallas at running back. Hmm this might be the start of a fun game, if this player goes down then who will fill in?
Pete Carroll is so far ahead of the curve. They just signed Ronnie Rivers, a running back that scored 40 rushing touchdowns in 52 games for Fresno State.
A few minutes ago I read an article about the Jets making a QB change. The article heading was totally misleading and it involved the Jets deciding on a new 3rd string QB. That QB played in the CFL and he has played very well for the Jets during the pre season so far.
This got me thinking WHY WHY WHY are the Seahawks not going all in to find out exactly how good Drew Lock can become?
We know that he has a fabulous arm and is extremely athletic but he has had poor coaching. Plus he is only 25 years old.
Geno is what Geno is, AWFUL and BORING. Lock ultimately could be deemed awful if given a longer chance but he is anything but boring.
Do we really have a diamond in the rough with Drew Lock? This could make Shane Waldron’s career if Drew Lock does well.
Drew Lock could become a valuable trade chip, a very good interim QB or a total flop. What is there to lose by giving him the season to see what he can become?
We already know Geno’s ceiling. We will end up with a bad record and a top 10 pick either way.
Ask your self-would you rather watch the Seahawks with Geno or Lock as the QB?
I am a business man and i always try and create a Win/Win. To me, Drew Lock could be a Win/Win. Worse case he is a lose/Win but Geno is a lose/lose regardless.
Thoughts by the awesome SDB community?
“he has had poor coaching”
I think this was their narrative during the trade and they’ve maybe decided that there is more to it than that. There is no other logical reason to keep giving Geno the reins other than they’ve seen things from Lock that we haven’t and those things are just plain bad.
Or it could be Pete just over values a guy who knows the system.
Unfortunately for the fans I think going with Gino is the safe bet for Pete. If he does poorly Lock can come in and be the savior. You’re also hedging against a poor start for Lock which would be worst case scenario. Gino saving the season for Lock looks a lot worse than Lock coming to the rescue for Gino. I think it’s the smart move that carries the least amount of risk for Pete. Unfortunately he has 17 games to help him play it safe… plus we’ve got Jimmy lurking in the shadows too. Bummed, but I get it.
I think, to Rob’s earlier point, signing Jimmy for the next two years as a bridge is looking pretty good.
Good thoughts overall. I get what your saying but I don’t like the “is it right to draft a QB” question. Of course it’s right. We are in talent acquisition mode, of course it’s right. Most QBs drafted high are going to unstable HC or OC situations. You can make it work with a defensive coach. Look at Sean McDermott as a non Pete example. He had Dabol with him since they drafted Allen. Now that Dabol’s gone no one is worried about Allen falling off. Talent wins out. If say a Desai takes over for Pete eventually I wouldn’t consider it a deathblow. The trendy OCs and Mcvay or Shanny disciples aren’t exactly killing it in the NFL yet. I think we are hard to watch and finish with 5 wins then take a QB high. And for what it’s worth I think it’s greater than %50 Pete can’t take the losing and disappears into the night after the season
Las Vegas’ bottom 11 with assumed starting QB & the race for the 2023 Draft QB crop.
Washington Commanders 80-1 QB Wentz
Pittsburgh Steelers 80-1 QB Trubisky
New York Giants 100-1 QB Jones
Carolina Panthers 125-1 QB Mayfield
Detroit Lions 125-1 QB Goff
Jacksonville Jaguars 125-1 QB Lawrence
New York Jets 125-1 QB Z. Wilson
Chicago Bears 150-1 QB Fields
Seattle Seahawks 150-1 QB Smith
Atlanta Falcons 250-1 QB Mariota
Houston Texans 300-1 QB Mills
Gonna be interesting to see what happens if teams who believe they have ‘their guy’ at QB go defense or SELL should they end up at or near the top pick.
Jags & Jets barring catastrophic injury are not going to select a QB. Guessing Chicago is in the same boat as long as Fields shows some growth this season.
Texans, Falcons, Seahawks, Lions & Giants are all seeming locks to select a QB if their guy is there.
Panthers, Steelers & Commanders are in a bit of a grey area. They could convince themselves that what they have on the roster is acceptable.
Houston, Seattle, Detroit & Philly all have 2 1st round picks.
It’s been quite a while since Vegas had us the third worst odds.
Stroud. Young. Levis. Van Dyke. Other?
Would be hard for Detroit and Philly to move up since Seattle, Atlanta, and possibly Houston all need a qb. Team most like to let a team move up for more picks?…us.
Will be interesting if Rob and others on this site find some risers during the season at qb.
The ‘odds’ certainly don’t dictate what the actual draft order will be. A few key injuries here or there can change everything. On the flip side, the Bengals nearly rose to the top in gross defiance of the odds makers last season. With that in mind, a team like Detroit might not have to move up.
Every season writes it’s own story in college football. Quaterbacks rise to prominence while others fall from grace. Injuries happen. Supporting casts get better or worse. We’ve been given a ‘watch list’ of QBs & that list will likely grow & shift as the season unfolds.
I can see where they want Geno to go out with the number ones and score on the first drive. If he goes three and out and Drew plays well the rest of the game. I would say the door is open for Drew to start week one. just my two cents
This was meant to be a response to another comment.
It was a great story. We were all screaming at our TVs for the Seahawks to take him on day 3 of that draft, and it actually happened.
I’m sure he will continue thriving wherever the future leads him.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/shaquem-griffin-nfl-football-retirement
HOU & ATL are potential wildcards QB-wise. Desmond Ridder was a 3rd round pick & so was Mills a couple years back. I guess if a QB they “fall in love with” is available they may take him but if each of those guys show a little something in ’22, I could see them NOT taking QBs.
Plus, some others on the list above (PIT, CHI, JAX, NYJ?) all have their franchise QBs too.
SEA should have their choice of the QB they want (plus the ammo to move up if necessary).
Sorry. This was meant to go to a post above.
Jabroni-DC says:
August 24, 2022 at 8:05 pm
Won’t be able to watch the game tomorrow night but I’m recording it. I mean after all, who doesn’t rubberneck a car wreck?
I will be staying up for a 1am kick-off
Because I’m an absolute idiot
We are true Seahawks fans
This is the way
Rob,
This season is going to be brutal, so let’s pivot. I’m going to my first football match on September 10. FC Edinburgh vs Peterhead. Any suggestions on how to attend without coming off as a complete wanker? Also, here is one of the two greatest plays in Seahawks history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LZb1p8JGsw
My suggestion would be to have a pie or whatever ‘delicacy’ is on offer at FC Edinburgh. Maybe try a Bovril if they do it. That is lower league Scottish football though so be warned, the quality will be amateur. The two main Scottish League teams in Edinburgh are Hearts & Hibernian. I went to see Hearts once.
I’m not a sophisticated enough fan to know any better. Just trying to not end up in a Green Street Hooligans situation. Appreciate the advice. Will definitely follow. Thanks for all the great content on the site. It gives my silly obsession even more color.
Green Street doesn’t really exist.
You’ll probably be surprised by how moderate the fans are