Well, it was nice while it lasted.
A four-game winning streak provided a month of excitement. The Seahawks were the feel-good story of the league. Geno Smith was being talked about as a possible MVP candidate. The defense appeared fixed.
Could they win the NFC West? Were they even in a rebuild any more?
It turns out — yes they are. Very much so.
But it goes far beyond the need to keep adding talent.
The Seahawks defense has been a shambles for weeks now, returning to the early season disaster zone it was showing to be. It raises all sorts of questions about the future.
For example — if you’re going to build a defense, are you best adding talent to fit this particular scheme? If this is the wrong plan, will you make the situation worse doubling-down on a bad system?
For weeks now, despite the glaring problem and the very clear need to fix it, teams just run on the Seahawks with ease. You can’t keep playing this way. It can’t be this easy for a team to come to Seattle — especially a team like the Panthers — and ram it down your throat.
The Seahawks look brittle, finesse and soft. They have done since Germany. Look at the last couple of drives by Carolina. A 10-play, 74-yard churn including 68 rushing yards that took 5:26 off the clock in the fourth quarter, ending in a touchdown.
Then, to finish things, Carolina ran all over Seattle to allow time to expire.
They ran for 223 yards despite having a very unexciting passing game to balance things out.
On the other side of the ball, the Seahawks can’t run the ball themselves. Sure, the injuries didn’t help this week. But what about previous weeks when Ken Walker was healthy?
Pete Carroll’s philosophy is completely broken if you can’t run the ball or defend the run. It’s a broken formula that creates what we’re seeing currently. A mess.
It gets worse. The Seahawks are now 3-3 at home this season. Since 2018, they are 23-15 at home. That’s a problem that still warrants a broader question. Why has one of the previously most difficult venues to come and play in, actually become quite a welcoming stopover for many teams?
Amid all the relentless ‘pay Geno Smith’ talk on Twitter, a game today is why you wait it out. Games with multiple interceptions won’t help his marketing pitch. Yes, there’s a lot on his plate at the moment with the defense being dreadful and no running game. If you want to be a $30m man, however, you’ve got to find a way at home against the Panthers.
The Seahawks, as we’ve talked about quite a bit, have money tied to players next year who aren’t getting it done. Case in point, Quandre Diggs — who has an $18m cap hit in 2022. How can you justify that? Yet if they move on, they just start collecting dead money again. A habit that has been way too prevalent in recent years.
There’s a lot to do here. The 2022 draft class was a nice start to a major rebuild. The four-game winning streak occupied our minds for a while. This arse kicking was an embarrassment that exposed many warts. It hints that a back-door playoff run would simply spoil draft position — which is back on the menu as the priority with games like this.
We were hoping the Seahawks might be pushing forward, as the Lions are currently doing. Instead, they are regressing badly.
Making the matter all the more worse was Fox constantly advertising the World Cup semi-finals.
Hey, at least Denver lost and Seattle currently owns the #2 pick as a consequence. The way they competed against the Chiefs, however, suggests that might only be a temporary benefit.
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Quite possible Seattle doesn’t win another game this season
Given that this team has zero shot in the playoffs perhaps that’s the best thing that could happen to get the most draft capital possible. Still really sucks though after the hope earlier in the year.
Just a reminder, while getting a higher first round draft pick is good, having your draft pick in every round be higher is even better.
Yes, having higher picks is better than having lower picks. Acknowledged. . .but to what end?
Being better provisioned for the coming 2023 haul would—on the surface, anyway—tease hope all the better, yes, but even if PCJS do manage to go full-on 2022 redux and crush the draft in consecutive years, should we logically expect that another offseason’s timely stewardship will appreciably bolster Seattle’s long-term standing in the league when the team’s two-steps-forward-one-step-back ways have never abated? Optimism is prudent when justified, but otherwise I recommend realism. No negativity required. (Is the meteorologist a black-piller for reporting incoming gloom?)
As Rob and plenty others here in SDB have been pointing out for a long time, the incumbent regime’s track record is both lengthy and consistent. Offseason in and offseason out, assistant coaches coming and assistant coaches going, draft pick after player trade after free agent signing, the only empirically realistic expectation for this team under its existing organizational structure is one of continued mediocrity and irrelevance.
Vulcan’s ownership transition plan (as reported) could rank among the most protracted lame duck sessions ever witnessed at the NFL level, by the way, and with its affording of an untouchable (and still broadly empowered) head coach, this plan effectively caps the Seahawks’ ceiling somewhere in the middle third of the league, I would think—with the odd one-and-done playoff appearance keeping season ticket holders honest, of course. Now, an ownership group committed to success and unwilling to accept mediocrity and irrelevance would change this organizational structure at whatever cost; Vulcan doesn’t seem keen on changing this organizational structure.
I don’t see it as “catastrophizing” to point out that all the draft stock in the world means little to the chronically out-schemed, out-maneuvered, and out-muscled team. Opponent weakness has proven largely unexploitable over the past half-decade. Homefield advantage hasn’t been. . .advantageous. . .in as long. The team has come out of bye weeks woefully underprepared for three years running. Unprofessional tackling, pass-rushing anemia, and line-of-scrimmage limp-wristedness have become established tradition at VMAC Country Club—and I don’t need to tell any of you about the interior offensive line play to which innocent fans have been cruelly subjected ever since the Super Bowl heyday of forever ago. ****ing bloody hell. “Keeping up with yesterday” could practically be the team motto at this point.
And frankly, why should things not continue thus in years to come? Admittedly, for PCJS suddenly to have popped off a good draft this year, one could soundly infer that something substantive surely changed within the organization last offseason. Pete was reigned in, right? “Free John Schneider” was heeded in the high temple, right? . . .Or perhaps 2022 was more one-off than watershed?
Perhaps we would be wiser to factor the broader five-year-rolling average of offseason performance into our forecasts? Really, which objectively offers better predictive power, the one-year window or the five? Is Cross/Walker/Lucas/Woolen 2.0 likely for next year’s draft? Or might the empirical man find reversion to the mean the better play?
After all, that 4,300-plus points of draft capital could certainly net the next stable of Taylor/Collier/Brooks/Blair/Eskridge/Barton types—or PCJS could instead throw a big chunk of said capital at the free agent market and score their next Jamal Adams. In the end, securing a couple of moderately impactful players with the 2023 haul is mathematically likely, but restoring the defensive roster to Top 5 worthiness is not. A simple histogram of team performance bears that out right quick.
As long as the PCJS power trust remains interminable, how can the status quo not prevail? I expect this offseason to be much like any other, except with magnified results due to the capital bump. Acquisitions will hit and miss as deckchairs are rearranged and hiring quotas satisfied. . .and ultimately next year’s 4,300 points will be spent sustaining this equilibrium.
Playing like this, it’s not that unrealistic.
I simply cannot stand to watch teams run it down our throat. 0-4 against the mighty NFC South.
^^^^^^^^^ this right here. this right here times a million. 0-4 against the NFC South. gross.
223 rushing yards for the Panthers at home. Horrible performance, and the scheme by the coaches deserves most of the blame. Once again.
Disagree. We were talent short on the DLine the entire second half. No Woods, no Harrison. And we aren’t deep there, to put it mildly. When Collier is getting a bunch of DT snaps, it’s not a good sign.
We are also talent short on the interior OLine. Which means we can’t run. If you really can’t run, you can’t win. Tom Brady Himself can’t bail you out of that situation.
As a result, the Panthers had the ball almost exactly twice as long as we did. Against a depleted DLine. The results were predictable.
There’s a whole lot more than scheme at work.
I am happy that no one will take Geno away from Hawks. Pete is genius.
We knew this season was over before it started. There isn’t enough talent. This past draft was a major staring point but the Carroll/Schneider regime had previously wasted years of resources on too many failures (it goes far beyond blaming the Jamal Adams trade).
My main hope relies on a hunch. Last off-season Schneider was given more power over the draft and that helped produce positive results. I can only hope that means this upcoming draft will yield more results we all desire.
There is going to be a top 5 pick (probable top 2 pick), which they have complained about not having for a long time. Furthermore, it’s possible they will have their own pick be in the top 10 as well. When you have a chance to take four players in the top 40 you really have a legitimate chance to revolutionize your franchise with talent.
But for Pete to be such a defensive mind, doesn’t it seem this defense has been horrific for many years now. That’s worrisome.
SF might run for 400 yds on Thursday night. Not even joking.
Funny, I just mentioned the same thing before I saw your post.
We might look like the Washington generals out there on Thursday night.
I am hoping for a cancellation. Earthquake, maybe?
This season is going excellent, we probably has best rookie class in 2022, with Russ now unfortunately concussed don’t see Denver pick to us falling outside top 3 , Baker to rams will get them extra wins so . plus we will get a 15-20 pick in round 1 . If we can nail this class with likely 4 picks in top 50 great way to improve the team.
I’ve changed my mind on this many times but this game has flipped me again to the draft QB position. Yes Geno wasn’t anywhere near the biggest problem today, still not great though, but this rebuild is nowhere near finished. On our current timeline, we have no business paying a 32 year old QB $30m.
And tbh, I’m starting to think it shouldn’t involve Pete either, it certainly shouldn’t involve Clint Hurt who has been an absolute disastrous hire.
In many ways we won the trade.
But the best outcome might have been the scenario Rob wrote about a few times.
Both Wilson and Pete go.
Wilson’s gone and that has worked but Pete is trending to mediocrity and ultimately possibly squandering through bad coaching the bonus picks.
Peter,
In my opinion, Carroll’s biggest weakness has been his coaching hires; particularly, on the defensive side. I give him credit for being willing to try on a new defensive scheme. It just hasn’t worked out. At least not in the front seven.
Pete’s great motivating young talent. Massive hats off to him for many moves during this run. Sherman, woolen, starting a short third round qb, trading Buffalo for Lynch who was trending to back up cast-off status.
But here we are rounding out the year and last night’s reaction podcast could have been recorded last year or the year before.
Geno didn’t have a great game. Buy this is multiple seasons in a row where good to almost great qb play is undermined by a bad running game and what is now becoming a liability on defense.
I just don’t know where he goes from here with any new ideas to improve the defense. Sure lack of talent. But whose fault is that?
Some fans act like that’s two unconnected circles and not a venn diagram. Pc/js are the reason there’s no talent. Fans are like just give it time when they get the players then this will be something special. For me it’s like…give it time? What the? It’s been since 2017 since they’ve had a good defense. How much time is enough time?
Lets look at the bright side. We helped our Denver draft pick by causing some seperation. Seems like Bijan Robinson should be more on the table with our native pick since we are a disaster when we cant run. Will the 49ers run for 400 yards on Thursday?
If we lose out and end up going 7-10, what draft pick does everyone imagine that we would get? Something in the teens?
Probably 14.
If we beat the rams and limp to 8-9, and what’s the point really, 17th or so.
Probably 15-20. We would need a few of these 5-8, 4-9 teams to pass us to get any higher.
Not making the playoffs nets no worse than 18th, probably a bunch teams with 8 wins sorting around strength of schedule, so a bit of a crap shoot other than the boundary of in/out of the playoff being 18th/19th pick.
We are currently at 17 with our native pick, the Jets have the same record but are at 18 just outside of the Wild Card. So losing out means we would go down from there.
Currently there are 2 teams that have 6 wins (one at 6-6 and one at 6-7), as well as 7 at 5-8. If we were to lose out, I believe that it is safe to assume we would drop below both of the 6 win teams which drops us to 15. Then of the 7 5 win teams, we can probably assume that at least 3 would jump above us by either winning 3 of their last 5 or tying us with a better SOS (ours is pretty bad at 0.454).
That would take us down to the #12 pick. I think that the best we could do is probably 10th at this point, that assumes losing out and some mediocre teams with upsets against good teams mixed in with these teams playing each other.
I should add that if we lose at, that is a win for both the Rams and Cardinals giving them each 5. That gives some cushion with the Denver pick. Even better would be if they both beat the Broncos, which in that scenario gives them 6 wins, just one off of Seattle’s 7. Picking up another would seem very possible at that point, further helping our draft cause. They both have better SOS than Seattle right now.
I’m not saying anything anybody don’t know… but how can you justify bringing back anybody in this DT-group. Short-term contracts with dead money weights are killing this team!!!!
Harris for $12.2 million! $3.2 million dead.
Jefferson for $6 fucking million!! $2 million dead.
Woods for $5.5 million! $1.75 million dead.
Mone for $3.8 millie! $1 million dead.
That’s $8 million down the drain. OR… $28 million down the drain. Ugh. Gross.
And highest paid player on the team this year Poona Ford a UFA. Just gross.
The millions spent on bad players is staggering. They’ve been doing this awhile now. While I don’t necessarily have a problem with Al Woods, there’s just so much middling mediocrity being paid so much. At least with Cody Barton you have a bad player on a rookie contract. That’s so much better than spending millions on a proven player who isn’t good.
Just adding on because I’m grumpy.
WE ARE PAYING OUT NEARLY $55,000,000 IN DEAD MONEY THIS YEAR!!! And only half of that is RW3.
We are ***already*** paying out $6 million in dead money in 2023 and that year ain’t even started yet!!
*angry face emoji*
It’s terrible but i would like to get rid of Diggs and Adams need to start clean.
it’s pretty pathetic when you put it like this, damn
I wouldn’t put Big Al in that category. He has been the only bright spot on the D-line this year. Outside of him, you are 100% correct. SO much waste there.
Let’s not forget that Harris was out with the flu yesterday. He and Woods together are a decent team.
Sure. Maybe. But they’re both in the mid-30s. Often injured. And counting for over $18,000,000 worth of cap next year!! If you cut them it frees up $13 million.
I mean, given the Seahawks current approach to free agency, that cap saving actually means nothing. Just replace them with 2-3 more journeymen?????
If we are going to appraise the PC/JS regime modus operandi… it is to dish out cost-saving contracts to undervalued DTs that are a bit over-the-hill. Jefferson and Mone are gone. Harris is gone if they switch schemes. I don’t know if there is a salary guarantee cut-off, but, best case scenario, Woods could be a camp cut (if he doesn’t retire!).
The interior lines on both sides of the trench were dominated throughout the last few games. The Hawks need to get a pass-rusher or a stud interior D lineman with this next high pick (or in free agency) The interior lines are not adequate in the run game; Offense or Defense.
The Broncos could win 2 of their last 4 games. AZ, LAR, KC, LAC,
The Bears, meanwhile, will probably lose out. Phi, Buffalo, Detroit, Min.
The 3rd pick seems most likely, but we need these 4 win teams to get a few more wins so weird tiebreakers dont mess things up.
I hate how we start out with what seems like too many running backs only to have street free agents by mid season. And the defense has been a downward slide into abysmal since Dan Quinn left.
Just for me…..an unpopular take.
Yes. Practically I’m stoked about a high draft pick. But what a freaking drag as a fan to go from hoping a few weeks ago about playoffs to essentially watching tankathon because “my,” team actually sucks and there’s no signs after half a decade its ever going to be anything of note to…..
Well at least I get to study up on tie breakers, SOS….it’s the fan equivalent of polishing a turd.
I do hope that get some quinnen williams level player.
Then all they need is linebackers who matter. More safeties. Anything that resembles edge rush. A few more rotational players to stop the run. Interior oline. Apparently another high caliber RB. Then we’ll be good to go.
See, “catastrophizing” ain’t so bad, is it? Especially when it’s on the nose.
Pete Carroll, a defensive head coach that: can’t muster up pressure on any qb. I believe most sacks have come in bunches (from the same games) and not enough pressure in most games. Can’t stop the run, another game when 200 yards of opposing teams running the ball down our throats. Can’t tackle, why should this even be an issue?4-3, 3-4 hybrid blah blah whatever, if you can’t tackle, what’s the point? Time of possession, you don’t give your offense much of a chance losing t.o.p. (the panthers had the ball twice as much on o as the hawks did). This isn’t the first year, or second, or third, or fourth….( I’m sure you get the point). I don’t trust him anywhere near a rebuild of the defense. If we have a chance of a potential franchise qb next draft, take the qb and leave Pete out of rebuilding this defense.
Pete’s post-game press conference did nothing instill any confidence that anything will change anytime soon..
no surprise, the earlier 4 games, when the d caught fire, fell right into Petes delusion of how “close” the d is when the truth is, they are downright terrible. No excuse to have a defense this bad again, for so many consecutive years. What a shame for the fanbase.
You have a good point about the coaching, this defensive staff NEEDS to get sorted before the draft/free agency. We will potentially have 4 picks in the top 45…and I’m honestly not opposed to all of those picks going to the front 7.
Our inability to stop the run is just horrendous, it makes games borderline unwatchable.
I’ll make this short and sweet. HORRIBLE TACKLING! This team does not wrap up.
Agreed – got to put players down at the point of contact, not two strides later. Get that right that and all the third at shorts become third and 6, third and 7.
Too often our defenders are throwing a shoulder into the ball carrier, and if they blast them off their feet it makes a great highlight, but all too often they bounce off and keep going for another 8 yards. Wrap the legs; it’s not nearly as dramatic, however the ball carrier isn’t going anywhere.
As the draft order stands at the moment, assuming we keep a 3-4 defense & resign Geno, my hope would be,
R1 #2 Jalen Carter, DL, Georgia
R1 #18 Trade to Tampa Bay for NT Vita Vea (Come home!!!)
R2 #35 JL Skinner, S, Boise State
R2 #50 Cooper Beebe, IOL, KSU or Sedrick Van Pran, IOL, Georgia
We’ve got to find a way to win at the LOS and punish anyone who wants to get past it.
Vea just signed an extension this year, so he isn’t going anywhere.
And he is the anchor of their defense.
Not happening.
Plus, “home” for him would probably be the Niners, not Seahawks. Dude is a Bay Area kid, regardless of his Husky connection.
This D (and defensive-minded head coach) got bludgeoned by Sam Darnold, D Foreman, C Hubbard, R Blackshear, and L Shenault. At home. Let that sink in.
Carolina 223 yards rushing.
Vegas 283 yards rushing.
TB 161 yards rushing.
NO 235 yards rushing.
ATL 179 yards rushing.
SF 189 yards rushing.
As this game progressed, it simply reminded me of the movie 300 where the Spartans, through shear will and tactical advantage, steadily drove the elements of Persian Army off a cliff into the Sea. This was essentially the Panthers Offensive trench battle throughout’s today’s game against the Seahawks Defensive Line.
The Seahawks gave them nothing, and the Panthers took everything.
Fix the trenches. Interior D and O line cannot be the weakest links on your football team.
I’ve seen enough. I’m returning to the same stance I had back on January 10 – this should be Pete’s final go at it. The franchise must make the call. There is simply no justification for doing otherwise.
Sure, today they were missing their top two running backs. Point conceded. They were, however playing the Carolina Panthers, a team who traded away their all-world running back a month ago and relegated to starting a journeyman, not to mention their train wreck at QB and sparse to little talent littered elsewhere. This was not a leviathan come calling, it was the freaking Panthers AT FREAKING HOME and it’s too tall a task. GTFOH with that.
Pete’s football worldview, whatever it may be at this time, has proven to be inconsistent, chaotic and ultimately broken. There is no area that his teams have demonstrated any mastered capability for executing at will and imposing on other teams for this season and for many before. They have no identity, other than “in it to the end” on whatever Seahawk-related topic you want to discuss – games, FA signings, trades – hey, we were in it to the end. Enough.
I’m sure tomorrow we’ll hear any three of:
a) the guys are competin’ their tails off
b) they just want to get this thing headed in the right direction
c) the young guys are so amped they forget to play
d) we need to clean a few things up
e) we’re right there, so close
f) make sure we’re all on the same page
These answers/excuses are all coaching-related and they’ve been on auto-pilot for years, which tells you that Pete’s coaching has also been on auto-pilot for years.
Pete cannot be allowed to remain until this team is sold. If you’re a fan, this move has been necessary and obvious for years. That Pete failed to step up on Jan 10 of this year and announce his retirement was a bitter disappointment. He will have another opportunity to make his retirement official on Jan 9, 2023. Ownership is negligent if any doubt remains for him about making the correct call.
Love your post Gross. Pretty much agree.
That said, I would wager my pension for the next 2 months that she will NEVER pay anyone to not be employed. The only way he leaves will be to retire without finishing his contract and after all these years, I’d say there’s a >1% that happens.
Completely agree. Seems exactly like the last few years of Russell’s prime when it was him carrying the team on his own with a terrible defense and limited run game. Except this year its Geno and Waldron carrying the team. Makes things even more worrisome considering Waldron might get a head coaching opportunity next year from his success with Geno, leaving next years offense potentially taking a step back.
All I want for Christmas is for Pete to accept the head coaching position at Pomona City College.
Apologies for the nihilism but as long as Pete is here…I just see the same shortcomings and excuses. It’s all a bit old. And I feel so confident that we won’t even get to close to the best version of Carter or Anderson in this defense.
I was initially inspired by the start of the year by Carroll and this team’s turn around. But as the year has progressed, it feels a lot like Russell’s last 4 years here. The defense is terrible, the running game limited and the QB is forced to do everything. It seems as though Waldron and Geno are carrying this team, just like when Russ was doing the same before his athleticism withered. We’ll see the year ends, but it seems like were seeing more of the same from 2018-2021 from Carroll.
Accountability. There is none. PC answers to no one so there’s no looking in the mirror.
As we keep discussing here, what is the use of high draft picks if the players picked are in this coaching staffs hands? Pete is a defensive coach and this defense is a complete joke. Jalen carter? Ok fine but the defense just got rolled by Sam darnold and CMCs backups in Seattle. I’m just rearranging the same words for the rest of the season- geno has exceeded expectations, draft class looks good, Pete and the staff are not coaching this team to another super bowl. Brock Purdy might throw for 50 yards and SF will still win by 30.
In a way this is good loss brings everyone on ground and focus on real issues this team has. Geno played out of his mind but definitely not a long time answer. DL line players or scheme or both is not working how are they going to fix it? With this flaw in defense will be one and done in post season so is it better to have high draft pick? Experience of post season is definitely advantage for young players.
I don’t thin k there’s a chance in hell they make the postseason.
Ashish how does this loss bring the man in charge to ground.
This is the same guy who said no one would want to play us at the end of last season.
I don’t think there’s a team in the league who gives a crap if they face Seattle.
Correct Peter, not referring to PC he will think just need to clean up few things.This is more towards drafting QB if there is one who you wants as the future and not thinking Geno is the answer next 3 years. Nothing against Geno even with 2 interceptions i think he did good coming back and played fearless Ball game. If your defense is such a crap you can’t win games.
Got it.
That makes sense regarding how to approach the draft.
First Panthers drive was a 3rd and 10 handoff to Hubbard that gained 12 yards. Stupefying. And it set the tone for the entire game. While the entire D is complicit to some degree, the line simply can’t shed a block. Who’s going to emerge as a playmaker? Nwosu can flash, but Taylor and the tackles get swallowed up constantly with hardly any push. Carolina o-line is solid but why does it take 9 guys in the box to make a tackle? Whatever, I just turned off the game and watched some Jalen Carter highlights. Feeling a little better now.
Might be for the best if they embarrass themselves down the stretch. Might get Seahawks fans to whip up the “Fire Pete Carroll” chants the way they did with Let Russ Cook. In all seriousness, Wilson needed to go, but so did Pete Carroll really. I only pray we don’t enter “win now” by signing Geno at all cost and trading away all our picks because Pete only has a couple of years left in him and wants to get back to the playoffs.
I just leveraged the #2 pick into the greatest draft anyone could possibly imagine on PFN.
Want to tell me PFN’s players are ranked all wrong? Shut up and let me have this. I stood in the cold and the rain to watch this defense give up 200 yards.
SEA 10. Jalen Carter DT Georgia trade icon
SEA 13. Will Levis QB Kentucky trade icon
SEA 22. Bijan Robinson RB Texas trade icon
SEA 28. Michael Mayer TE Notre Dame trade icon
SEA 36. Calijah Kancey DT Pittsburgh trade icon
SEA 41. JL Skinner S Boise State trade icon
SEA 54. Sedrick Van Pran OC Georgia trade icon
SEA 60. Byron Young DT Alabama trade icon
SEA 81. Ji’Ayir Brown S Penn State
2024 DET 1st
2024 ATL 1st
2024 JAX 3rd
Seems legit! 😂
If the OL doesn’t block very well and the DL doesn’t tackle very well, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out where you need to commit resources. It look like you addressed those needs as well as other clear needs. This is, after all, a game of blocking and tackling as much as anything else.
I was with you until…your first pick. I don’t think Carter will last until 10.
How did you turn the #2 pick into all those picks??
Detroit and Atlanta offered a fortune to move up from #4 and then #10. They then neither took Carter or Levis.
I used some of that haul to move up from #17 to get Levis, and then down from #15 and then move up to get Mayer, Kancey and Skinner. They were there and teams were amenable to moving down without wanting a big bag.
I stripped the bottom half of the draft to assure getting Skinner, Young and Van Pran though. But who cares.
Seattle Seahawks
2. Will Anderson Jr. EDGE Alabama
17. Joey Porter Jr. CB Penn State
39. JL Skinner S Boise State
65. DeMarvion OvershownLB Texas
88. Mazi Smith DT Michigan
89. Ricky Stromberg OC Arkansas
102. Andrew Vorhees OG USC
140. Jonathan Mingo WR Ole Miss
147. Tyler Van Dyke QB Miami (FL)
181. Chris Rodriguez Jr. RB Kentucky
Has TVD declared for the NFL?
Nice draft Curtis!
I thought of you yesterday during that miserable game and wondered how you fared. Sorry you had to witness that in person.
I’d take that draft in a heartbeat. I’d imagine there would be an investigation into draft fixing (is that a thing?) to figure out how it happened.
I feel a good test for a head coach is asking if that coach became available today, how long would it take for someone to hire them. I honestly think that if Pete were fired, no other NFL team would hire him. Not next year or the year after. I think he might get a college job. If that’s the case, why are we holding on to the guy?
Barton was trash today. Geno wasn’t far behind. Great point Rob, this is why talk of retaining Geno for 30 mil a year is premature. It starts upfront with our three interior defensive lineman. They are getting zero push or losing ground. This is putting Barton and Brooks in bad alignments because they have their own defenders butts in their face. They are then hesitating and blockers are climbing to the second level leaving only our safeties and our stupid fast corner, Woolen, to save the play. I get that the big boys get tired when they are on the field too long but they aren’t getting push from the very first snap.
Then when you have Geno off today and no run game to bail him out it was a recipe for disaster. Our receivers made some spectacular catches today. Geno was off all game. His only great pass DK dropped. I think we go 2-2 the rest of the way.
2-2? Who are those wins gonna come against?
I want you to be right but we’ll be lucky to see one against the Rams and considering they obviously haven’t quit and got some energy from the Baker acquisition, and considering by then we may be out of the playoff picture, I’d say that game’s a toss-up.
Jets? Have you watched them? Their D is very good and Mike White is playing decently. 35/65 Hawks win.
SF and KC are obvious losses.
What’s McCaffrey gonna do to us if we have Carolina rushing for 200+? Lots of excuses from Pete but they simply need to do better than rely only on Al Woods and Shelby Harris. Now we must win with Jets and Rams, the other two games are beyond our reach. I’d consider giving Drew Lock a shot in the last game if we’re sure the playoff race is over.
I’m done with the Hurtt/Desai/3-4 experiment. I know there’s a lack of talent, but has there been any signs that Hurtt can turn this D around with better talent? The scheme doesn’t work and there are seemingly no adjustments happening to fix it. We’ve seen nothing to suggest that this defensive coaching group can be trusted to improve things even with some more talent. The regression of younger guys like Brooks, Ford, Taylor, etc isn’t exactly encouraging. Obviously Woolen has been spectacular, Nwosu a good pick up, and Bryant has been fine, especially for a 4th round rookie. But that’s on those individual players’ talents, they weren’t coached up to where they are.
There’s two coaches who can turn a 4-3 into a 3-4 and have immediate success; Vic Fangio and Wade Phillips. Pete’s not going to swallow his pride and hire one of those guys. Tap into the old USC well, bring back a Richard or Bradley or whoever and go back to the defensive approaches that were at least competitive in the past.
KNJ, for as bad as he was, got his defense to improve through the season.
Not a surprising result and probably should’ve lost to LAR.
Rob raises again the most interesting/troubling point in terms of where the blame lies on scheme vs personnel. Would certainly like to dig into that. Further how much is scheme vs fit vs coaching?
The Panthers IMHO out Seahawked the Seahawks, bludgeoning run game, conservative passing, solid defense.
I’m erring on the positive side as we have major pieces in place on the offense, just need some upgrades to “less major” positions incl the interior OL, add a reliable starting caliber RB and a 3rd wr
But Let’s face it that on the defensive side of the ball the cupboard is bare in terms of possessing any game wreckers, talent at important positions (save lucking out on Woolen) nor spending our money wisely on difference makers. I look forward to a relatively complete reboot on that side of the ball.
Scheme vs personnel vs lack of motivation
I don’t care what scheme they are playing. If the defensive line can’t hold their ground and tackle the running back, if the linebackers can’t tackle him either, it’s off to the races. There is a whole lot of weak tackling going on. We are not the bullies out there on the field. Likewise the offense can’t block as well as needed on running plays.
this season has been up and down but fun to watch all with one overriding repeating comments this season and last season – defence – with a defensive guru head coach
surely we say thanks you very much at the end of the season and re-set with a haul of draft picks and a new coach
Kinda cranky after this game okay were exactly was Noah FANT today? I wonder why they didn’t load the box and make Sam D beat you. I see the defense line I cringe 35 year old Al Woods i see 10.7 million dollar Poona ford not make tackle but 1 assist. Collier hasn’t made single improvement in almost 5 years.mone got a contract extension last year and wonder why.jefferson nothing. Does anyone remember when Washington ran the ball against Philly and the next dayThey brought in Suh and Joseph on one year contracts.well some may say that they don’t fit the Seahawks scheme. Well guess what the Seahawks scheme is broken.
I’m in the camp of preferring competitive losses at this point to backdooring into the playoffs. I’m just imagining this run defense against the Eagles or 49ers in January. Russ being concussed doesn’t leave Denver in great shape. Post Tua, I can’t imagine he’d be cleared next weekend, and they may use caution the week after on Christmas, given their record and enormous investment in #3.
I’ll take a competitive loss from a young team against the chiefs, etc.
Losing to the raiders and Carolina isn’t a competitive loss. The raiders are actually bad and the panthers….oof….I don’t think the falcons are good. The saints aren’t good. I don’t particularly think the bucs are that good.
I see the panthers winning the division.
If they win out they are a solidly middle of the road team at 9-8.
I wouldn’t call losing to Sam darnold and his mid teens passing attempts competitive.
Could someone please explain to me how is that possible that for a couple games stretch this defense was good, pretty good tackling, delivered sacks, stopped the run, forced 3&outs, etc?
Did they play against that much worse opponents? That much worse OLs? Major personality change didn’t happen. Did they just played to their absolute ceiling while the opponents to their floor?
Scheme changed? Or they just changed their scheme and it took like 3-4 games for the opponents to plan for that?
Could this unit be a top10-15 defense and needs major coaching change or it was just a hiccup and this group is a bottom 5-10 unit no matter what the coaches do in the long run?
I do know that Barton’s snap count was markedly lower during the “good defense” stretch of games, and then it went back up. Not placing this at Barton’s feet at all. Rather, it suggests there was some sort of scheme change going on that was abandoned or altered. Absolutely could have been a complete fluke as well.
This isn’t a top 15 defense talent-wise, and the lack of any improvement through the season makes me place this on the coaching/scheme.
Just one more quick thought on the play where Russell Wilson got his concussion was that Frank Clark that tackle him?
Yes but from what I’ve seen, it wasn’t a deliberate hit from Frank Clark, Russ fell awkwardly.
Some of this is regression to the mean (they were not a team that was going to win 11/12 games imho), but as Rob eloquently said, some of this is tragic use of resources – the defense should not be THIS bad against demonstrably BAD teams. The Seahawks give up the second most points in the entire NFL atm… there are myriad stats to suggest this is not a fluke as well…
I worry the Broncos will finish with 4 or 5 wins probably, and that could drop us out of top 5 perhaps… the Rams game with them becomes huge. I see us finishing either 8-9 or 9-8 depending, but the trend is bad. That probably puts us in the middle of the draft. I’d rather we were better and the Broncos were worse tbh.. a top 3 pick seems like a key threshold.
Wow.. That is optimistic. Can’t see them beating the 49ers, Chiefs, and the Jets D line will be all over Geno and the Rams will be hell bent to close out their season with a revenge win. It is all for the best though if we can get two top ten picks.
Hearing and seeing a lot of calls for Hurtt to be fired. Heard and saw the same thing the last couple of years about Norton. What do these situations have in common?
Answer: Pete Carroll, “defensive” head coach
It’s the song that never ends with some fans. It’s forever a coordinator and never the guy who has been here for forever.
Yes, yes, in fact, the deck chairs would look so much better over there, Capt. Smith.
I think it’s more a combination of acknowledging the Pete is very unlikely to be fired and the desire to get someone outside his sphere of influence to do things completely their own way. I’d kill for Flores.
100%. I’m so tired of blaming the coordinators and the talent. Pete is the common denominator to the downfall of this team. From player acquisition to defensive scheme. How many times are they going to change the pieces before they realize it’s the guy running the show.
At this point Pete should just appoint himself as Defense Coordinator and go back to what he knows, then he will have nothing to hide behind and its one last sink or swim
Because he’s the consummate politician, there is zero chance this would ever happen imo.
It wont, he sure has benefited from HAVING some place to hide behind. Pete is a valuable leader and culture builder, as we all know, but something is seriously wrong with the defense, and it has been for years. There were major problems on offense to, but by putting his trust in someone (waldron), the problem seems to be getting fixed
I was hoping that by this time in the season, regardless of record, the team would be establishing an identity for the rebuild.
Instead, the Haws have lost to Atlanta (5-8), New Orleans (4-9), Tampa (6-7), Las Vegas (5-8), and Carolina (5-8), with squeak out wins against the Rams (4-9) and Lions (6-7). It appears the wins against the Chargers and Giants (both 7 wins teams) were more the anomaly than losing to bad teams.
Games remaining include SF (9-4), KC (10-3), Jets (7-6), and Rams. I can see them losing every game. The worst part is they’d likely only move up 2 spots in the draft order (from 17-15) if that happens.
Last year the 7-10 teams occupied draft slots 8 – 11. If the Hawks lose out, they’ll be passed by more than two of the current 5- and 6-win teams.
That’d be great, but would require several of the current 5-win teams to win 3 of next 4 to pass them.
The Seahawks have accounted for 20% of the NFC South’s wins this year.
Completely unrelated to the NFL draft or the Seahawks, this link is for Rob.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClRN8SXsl9N/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
And Rob, while I posted that link in light hearted jest and as a way of distracting from the frustrating weekend, feel free to rip into arrogant Americans posting on the evolution of languages.
Rough one. Geno did not shine. Still, 9/8 is a decent possibility – so are the playoffs. I don’t get the “lose for draft position” theory. (I get that I’m on a seahawks draft website but still!)
Defensive line and interior offensive line need some upgrades and couple of difference makers.
Question: What won loss record would feel like a successful season for the Seahawks this year? Would 8/9?
It’s not a theory
It’s a legit point of view that getting your arse kicked in the playoffs because you made a back-door entry as a crap 7th seed and thus lost a few spots of vital draft position in every round isn’t beneficial to this team
To answer your question. They’ve already exceeded my expectations this year. They gave us hope for more with their improved D play but it faded back to their mediocre play. I’m upset that they didn’t sustain it but to be honest, I wasn’t expecting the resurgence, even if only for a few games.
After sleeping on it; I’m even more disheartened by what’s going on. We feel directionless, again. Can’t run. Can’t stop the run. With a coach who claims those are the two most important things in football.
How can we have confidence in high draft picks when we don’t even know what direction this team wants to go? Does anybody think Carter, in this system will generate sacks? Or is he just going to be an ultra expensive run stuffer? Do you trust Will Anderson to be a 12+ sack guy in this system? I don’t.
I just hate the lack of identity. It’s been an issue for going on 7 years now. It’s like Pete is trying to build a house and his goal is “I want a good house.” What does that mean? What style? How big? Traditional or modern? At some point, you have to firmly identify the identity you want and have to make sacrifices to get to it. I heard a great quote the other day, “we can do anything…we just can’t do everything.” Pete seems like he’s trying to do everything. And the cost is doing nothing very well except throwing the football, in spurts. That’s it. So frustrating.
Hawks are truly talent deprived. We knew this going into the season. Looked like a 3-5 win team going in to me, maybe worse. Then they threw us some smokescreen. 3 positives: Nwuso (sp?) FA signing. Rookies. Geno. We didn’t have a great feel on any 3 of them until they played this year.
Another positive is draft position is of higher value than we could have guessed or at worst maybe flipped position from where we thought we’d be vs Broncos.
Not giving the coaching staff a free pass here just stating what I’m seeing from a talent perspective and there just isn’t a lot. They have really missed the boat on how they spend their $$. I do like the rookies. Keep doing that kind of drafting and maybe they can move the needle faster.
Worst thing in football IMO for a team and fan base is knowing the other team is going to run down your throat and you can’t do anything about it. That is exactly where we are at. I don’t think there is a scheme that can mask their deficient talent. Maybe for a minute but the real team will show up. They need new players.
Yesterday’s loss was miserable to watch — but, I still can say w conviction that I’m in a better place about this team this year than I was at this same time last year.
Timing was right to move on from Russell and Bobby; and while we are regressing to what we are, I still feel very good about Cross/Lucas/Walker/Woolen as new foundational pieces. I like the skill position group we have too. I think maybe you and I differ some on Geno – but to me, for the most part, he has been more the solution than the problem.
So – at the least, for the most part we have gotten younger – and we have the prospect of a bunch more high picks. Seems like the win streak was maybe fool’s gold, but I still feel like we’ve reduced the bucket of problem areas and will have good assets to focus on that area in the next off-sesaon.
Geno has been a big bright spot and definitely not a problem. I think projecting Geno moving forward presents a problem for the simple fact of a) what does it take to keep him and b) is this really Geno’s performance level moving forward.
Part of the appeal of Geno has been great performance on a budget. The budget part of the equation is going to be dramatically different moving forward. It’s a good problem, but a problem no less.
My analogy for Geno is like a high strikeout hitter who has a breakout season at 30+. Is it sustainable? That’s the question. Can guys figure it out? Absolutely. Can guys have fluke seasons? Absolutely. It makes me happy I don’t have to make such a decision.
Where we probably differ is that I think Geno’s turnover luck has been way, way out of whack this year. He had 5 clear turnover worthy plays yesterday and only 2 can to fruition. Over the last 6 weeks; IMO, he’s had 4-5 such plays a game and has lucked out in those resulting in only a few turnovers. I think he has both played great and been incredibly lucky. So it isn’t an anti-Geno deal…it’s just…being cautious.
Jerrod Goff is having a really great season!
I know he is still under contract with Det but would anyone want to have Jared Goff the next 2-3 years at 30 m per year?
Do we think ANY team in this league would sign Goff to a 3 year/30 m deal if given the opportunity next season?
Maybe 30 m is just not that much any more?
But I just can’t see teams spending 30m on veteran QBs who have one really good season after years of mediocrity. See Nick Foles & Case Keenum… There are plenty more. Those two just came to my mind straight away. I don’t think GMs are stupid. They just get desperate occasionally…
There are some really really good back ups that can “present like starting QBs” and play amazing when the stars line up for them. Geno is Geno. He has been his entire career. He’ll be mostly mediocre, sometimes crappy and, occasionally have some great games.
Another week. Another Bronco and Seahawks loss. Train keepa rollin – hard to watch yesterday
Here’s a thought exercise:
Would you rather sign Geno for 3-4 years at $30M/year
Or
Jacoby Brissett for 2 years at $4.5M/Year?
To me, he’s an interesting candidate that I think can operate Waldron’s system. I just keep coming back to not wanting to pay Geno that type of money. Brissett has proven he can capably start in this league and I think could operate at 80% of what Geno has done.
I know we are early on this, but I just hate the roster construction of this team and I really think we would be paying Geno for his 2022 Season, not what we will necessarily get in the future. Tough spot.
A fools choice since Geno Smith’s value is slipping and will soon be south of 15 million per year.
Also what about Lock? What do we have there?
I don’t know what Geno’s value is, honestly. All it takes is for one team to be desperate.
I have ZERO faith in Lock. None whatsoever. But who am I and what do I know, ha? He has incredible tools but I just don’t buy him doing what it takes to be an NDL QB.
What makes you think Brissette is going somewhere? Just idle speculation?
I believe he’s a free agent this off-season.
2022-23 season has been emotional ride, started with no hopes, post season for sure to what a piece of Sh!T defense we have. So many comments around Geno and defense which are valid, but lets get through the season if we just see best part of Geno we might/have to over pay him. What ever fix hawks did in between 4 games was just coincidence of bad teams?
With this version of Geno out, we will take QB? I fear somehow we win on Thursday and we will be back on hype train LOL.
I think we take a QB regardless.
I’d be fine w Dorian Thompson Robinson later and defense early and often.
So would I. But if Richardson is available with our 2nd 1st round pick I’d get him then
Coaching matters and it shows up in results. Waldron has demonstrated that with the revival of Gene Smith and a decent offensive attack.
We had a couple of very good DC’s and we had very good defenses. Then we hired Norton who was fired from the Raiders for being mediocre and we were mediocre. It is pretty apparent that we have another mediocre DC on our hands. The LB’s don’t know where to go and we were constantly leaving RB’s and recovers in motion completely uncovered for more than half that game. That screams coaching and slow/poor adjustments to me.
You would think that Pete could find a good DC, although he is batting .500 at this point. If we stock up on talent, a good DC will get the most out of that talent. So I am content with getting some very good picks this year, hope we find great talent and then cross my fingers that we have a better DC going into 2024.
I do think that we need x2 DL in our first 3-4 picks. I would love to see a pairing of Carter and Klancey.
I bet that both Clemson DL will shoot into the top 6 after the combine, the numbers are just so high. That may help relive some of the pressure on teams to take Carter.
this is a great post, but the d started falling apart with Rashard, another one of petes pupil, along with Norton, and Clint hurt as well. I also find it curious that the linebackers are struggling a bunch, and the linebacker coach is Aaron Curry ffs
🤔