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I so badly wish the Hawks actually had more than a singular pick on the first two days of the draft to get some guys like this (Johnson, Cade).
To show what an incompetent moron Pete Carroll is – he’ll trade for a SS who can’t cover and give up a 1, 1, and 3. But for a franchise QB he’s going to need at least a 1, 1, 1. How unbelievably stupid is he? I’ve turned on this fool. His puppet GM too.
Bobby I’m frustrated too but you might want to cool it with the name calling.
Agreed — I think we should avoid labelling people morons
In all honesty, too many of the decisions he’s made are “moronic” which could be seen as descriptive of the approach and execution rather than direct name calling.
So how about we label him “inept”? Cuz that’s what Bobby’s getting at here. Maybe he’s just a bit more angry than you guys are and lashing out. I mean “inept” is descriptive of his job performance the last 5 or so years, right?
OK, I’m done playing around with the language.
I might add that I predicted they’d get less for Wilson that they traded for Adams. Now I suppose three 1s is greater than two 1s and a 3 but if you add in the inclusion of a starting level NFL Safety as part of what Seattle paid, I wouldn’t be that far off now would I?
Depends if they are early R1s or late R1s. The ones we traded away were late R1s, which was part of the logic according to JS: that we never get a shot at that kind of blue chip talent drafting in the back half of R1. (still a huge overpay…)
Oh, come on, Big Mike. They aren’t inept. They just have their own vision. These guys are not inept or morons and they have their own agendas. I hate it, you hate, most of us hate it…but they aren’t stupid. Calling them names doesn’t help. I’m just as frustrated as everyone else but they didn’t get where they are because they are inept.
But my friend it can be argued that their ego has gotten the best of them and it’s led to a fair amount of ineptitude. An example is many of us, including I’m guessing yourself, think they feel like they believe they’re the smartest ones in the room on draft day because they were for a couple of drafts and now they’re just making strange and/or poor picks far too often.
I do believe that Pete and John have a HUGE ego between the two of them and it gets the better of them at times. A reminder of checking that ego was a few drafts ago when they both looked so miserable after the first round because they didn’t get who they wanted and then made a desperate pick. The Adams trade also comes to mind. I wish they could recover from those episodes but so far they haven’t demonstrated that they can. Ok, I just made your case for you! 🙂
You did and thank you. 😀
By the way, if last offseason wasn’t inept, I don’t know what was.
Arguments made without derision and emotion are superior arguments. Full Stop.
And like I said, I’m kind of playing around with the language here and trying to mention I understand Bobby’s anger over what is happening to this franchise.
I fully get Bobby’s anger and it is justified…but they aren’t stupid.
I’m trully sick and tired of Greg bell refusal to accept RW trade is a history:
“trust me that you don’t know what I know. How could you?”
https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1364296435546525696?s=19
It’s very strange
Doing the nuanced dance of one who does not want to lose access to the Seahawks FO? Cryptic crap that gives nothing away.
On a more hilarious note, that thread showing KJ shutting down critique is pure gold.
What access does he get though? I’ve never seen him break a story
It may go to an internal need to feel like he’s part of the organization, in a way. He may think he has access, but the team probably views him as just another journalist.
Fantastic stuff once again Rob. Cade looks and sounds like the real deal.
I don’t know if you do this or not, but offline you might ask these guys, ‘who did you play with at the Senior Bowl that impressed you?’ ‘Who isn’t getting enough attention in the draft media?’
I bet you’d get some very interesting answers.
That is always a great question. You can figure out very quickly if a guy has charisma and natural leadership potential. Some guys just have it… can’t describe it… but they have it. Intrinsic, unmeasurable, value added or some similar term….. that really can ignite a position group or a whole team.
Michael Silver delivers more
https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1364334221481959429
My biggest takeaway is the ‘3 first round picks’ is the sense from the other teams inquiring and not a price the Seahawks have set.
But that very well could be someone asking JS ‘so does 3 firsts show we’re serious enough to have a discussion?’ and JS saying yes.
To me this is Seattle flirting a bit, showing a bit of leg, trying to establish exactly what the market is just in case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=845sc–NCEo
So many good players coming in this year’s draft. Wish we could get this guy and all the guys you interview. Really like Cade and I’ll bet he is going to make an impression on the league. Thanks for doing all of these interviews and introducing us to these players.
https://whodatdish.com/2021/02/23/russell-wilson-trades-saints-offer-seattle/
Rob has mentioned Saints as a landing spot. Make the trade and bring in The Red Rifle Andy Dalton to hand the ball off and throw 20 times like PC wants.
If it’s going to happen, and imo it certainly is, I’m much more in favor of Vegas and getting Carr back as part of the trade package. Based on what I’ve read of his personality he will happily be Pete’s yes man handoff guy and once in a while he’ll actually pull a win out after Pete’s kept it too close against some shitty team by playing 70s Bud Grant football.
Wilson throwing deep to Ruggs would be pretty cool. Best deep ball thrower throwing one of the fastest (if he can stay healthy) players in the league.
I’d like to see him throw a lot to Waller to the point the guy catches 80 for 1200 and we’d know for sure what many of us suspect, that the Seahawks don’t use the TEs often enough/properly or don’t draft/sign TEs good enough to be real weapons (since Graham anyway and they used him improperly).
That too. Jacobs as a running back too, they don’t need a defense. Wilson is at least 4+ points per game over Carr and the Raiders lost 3 games on the final possession because defense couldn’t hold.
I’d take 3xR1, Ramczyk and Lattimore
I think the proper term is “moran”…..
on a sidenote, how crazy has the last 4 years been for tiger woods. On top of the world and now…. he may never play in the PGA again. I guess it is a … enjoy what you got before it is gone.
Sad really, I’m a huge golf fan and have been all my life. I hope he will be ok but not sure what caused this morning’s accident. The PGA has helped me more than anything get through this past year and Tiger was a part of it.
I think people don’t understand (I’m not a golf fan personally) how difficult it is to be good/great week after week. I got a small taste when I dated a LPGA golfer. She was really good, but wasn’t able to make much headway. She then decided to do something else. But Tiger was so naturally gifted and so much better than all his peers….. he was like Russell/Chamberlain, Kobe/MJ/, or Babe Ruth in their primes…. transcended the sport and dominated for 10 years +. He will always be an icon of the sport…. we got to witness “greatness”.
Why I now admired him is not when he was on the top, but when he fell off the golf pedestal … and with the specter of not ever playing again, was able to remake his swing, his personnel life/demons and became good again. Not the same Tiger, but he is still an outstanding golfer. You can see it every once in awhile when he will put together a round or a couple of rounds…. This latest accident might be the end of the road, but he has been on one hell of a journey that changed golf forever.
Agree. The number wins are especially impressive.
Davis Love made the HOF with 21 career wins and 1 major. Tiger Woods had accomplished that by the time he was 23 or 24.
Tiger grand slam. End comment.
According to the paper this morning, he was on his way to a meeting and was on a pretty steep hill that is known for crashes and was going at a “relatively greater speed than normal” according to the sheriff’s department. They also said there were no signs of impairment.
Possible cap casualty Rams TE Everett might be worth keeping an eye on…. he has ties to the new OC of Seattle and they could use a little help at the spot. Shouldn’t be too pricy. I would think of it as an insurance policy, in case Dissly can’t get back to 100%. Honestly, I like this fit better than bringing in Ertz or possibly another FA.
First, great work as always Rob! You are delivering dope quality stuff and making offseason and quarantine more fun.
What bothered me last year(s) was the desperate need at one specific position. Tried to manage the roster with the aim to pick the BPA in this draft (not for greatest need) and give RW some pleasure. So in stlye of Cha my Offseason-Plan
1. Cap managing:
– Trade Adams for R1 and R3 in 22, for example the often-used Miami #18.
– Restructure Wagner: -4,15M to 13M (21), I like cha’s idea of restructuring Wagners contract to have his dead cap in 22 while having him on a reasonable contract this year. 24,5 (22) with a 8M dead cap
– Extend Dunlap: -6,5M to 7,5M (21), 9,5M (22), APY 8,5M. I don’t think he will get big money, considered retiring before the trade and seems happy in Seattle.
– Extend Reed: -5M to 9M (21), Two more years with nearly the same APY (11 instead of 11,5)? 11,5 (22), 12,5 (23). He talked this weekend about remaining with the Seahawks long-term.
– Extend Dickson: -1,7M to 1,7M cap this year. 4y/12M.
+27M for FA without restructuring/extending Wilson, Brown and Lockett.
2. Signings:
Old Faces:
– Resign Smith, Moore, Simmons, Ogbuehi and Bellore to min. contracts.
– 2 round-tender on Ford (3,5M).
– ERFA for Neal and Mone.
New additions:
– C Linsley: 3y/30M: 6,5, 11,2, 12,3; APY: 10 or RG Scherff: 4y/54M: 7,5, 15, 15,5, 16; APY: 13,5
Best way to make RW happy, set a tone and improve your offense: For once get a big name when Free Agency starts and take a quality C or G. I would prefer Linsley because I assume, he would cost a little less than Thuney or Scherff. As Rob showed us the draft is loaded with good LG to find the next Damien Lewis.
– C Tyler Shatley: 2y/3M: 1,5, 1,5; APY: 1,5
30-year-old center previously played for the Jags. Checks nearly every Seahawks box: 6-3, 300lbs, athletic (TEF: 3,52/wTEF: 105,66), PFF grade 2020: 67,7, 642 Snaps, 1 penalty, 2 Sacks allowed; smaller hands (31 3/4). Could provide some depth and upgrade over Hunt or Pocic at low cost
– TE Jonnu Smith: 4y/30M: 4, 8, 8,75, 9,25; APY: 7,5
26y, 6-3, 250lbs. Been linked to the Seahawks (“make an aggressive run at him”). Superb Short-Shuttle 4,18s, 4,62s 40-yard, PFF: 75,2; smaller hands and arms 9 3/4 and 32 7/8. I know we barely used our TE last year and wasted good money on Olsen and Hollister but it’s time to use our TE’s more. Everett could be another cheaper option, also with a good Short-Shuttle: 4,33
– RB Mike Davis: 2y/8M: 3, 5; APY: 4 or Marlon Mack: 1y/3M
28y, 5-9, 217lbs. 4,54 on 40, great vertical and broad (35,5, 116). PFF: 75, 642yards, 6TD, 3,9y avg, 373y receiving with 2TD. Well known in Seattle. A little more dual thread
25y, 5-11, 213lbs. 4,5 on 40, also great vertical and broad (35,5, 125). Missed 2020 with a torn Achilles. 2018/2019: 908/1091yards, 9/8TD, 6,1/5,9 yards avg. He is young enough for a one-year prove-it deal to get back to old numbers and a bigger contract afterwards
– WR John Ross: 1y/2,5M
26y, 5-11, 188lbs. Best QB for deep balls for the fastest 40yard-dash in combine. Maybe we could get a deal like Dorsett (1M) with some incentives.
– CB Xavier Rhodes: 2y/8M: 4, 6; APY: 5
30y, 6-1, 210lbs. Checks all boxes: Size, arms (33 5/8), wingspan (79 1/8), 40 (4,43s), vertical (40,5). Was released by the Vikings to bounce back with the Colts for 3M. 52,4% completion percentage allowed, 84,6 QB rating. Maybe he is out of our range and he wants more. The Colts also have enough cap to retain him. I think Sherman would cost too much (7-10APY).
– S Malik Hooker: 1y/2,5M or Keanu Neal 2y/8M
25y, 6-1, 212lbs. Injury prone but maybe a one-year shot to provide some depth to Blair and Diggs.
26y, 6-0, 211lbs. Good vertical (38), broad (132) and Short-Shuttle (4,2s), not the top speed (4,62s) and injury prone in 2018 and 2019, but healthy in 2020. Young enough for a 1- or 2-year rental but probably more in the range between 3,5-5M APY.
3. Let’s draft, roster and cap:
Trade back with #18 for Steelers #24 and #87 (900 points to 895):
#24: RB: Williams, DE Rousseau, T Darrisaw, DT Nixon
Trade back with #56 for Texans #67 and #109 (340 to 331)
#67: G Cleveland, Meinerz, Leatherwood, Banks , DT Togiai, WR Johnson
#87: WR Rodgers, DT Tufele, DE Ogundeji, LB Hilliard
#109: CB Taylor, DE Williams, S Sherwood,
#129: LB Britt, DE Kaindoh, TE McKitty, RB Jamar Jefferson
QB: Wilson, Smith
RB: Davis, Williams, Penny, Homer, Dallas, Bellore
WR: Lockett, DK, Ross, Rodgers, Moore, Swain
TE: Smith, Dissly, Parkinson
LT: Brown, Ogbuehi
LG: Cleveland, Haynes, Simmons
C: Linsley, Shatley
RG: Lewis, Jones
RT: Shell, Ogbuehi
DE: Dunlap, Robinson, Taylor, Green, Collier
DT: Reed, Ford, Mone, Lattimore
LB: Wagner, Brooks, Britt, Barton, BBK,
S: Hooker, Diggs, Blair
CB: Rhodes, Reed, Neal, Taylor, Amadi
ST: Myers, Dickson, Ott
Cap: 177,9
With our little rollover let’s say the cap space ends near 183M. Would be 5,1M for practice squad and reserve.
2022: 25 players and 100M cap space (after trading/cutting Wagner)
I have to say, this wall of text was too much for me to tackle yesterday and I just skipped it. Read through it with my morning coffee and have to say, it’s all very well thought out. All of the moves make sense and there are multiple ways to go if they can’t get a specific guy at a position.
There are a couple of quibbles (Dunlap contract looks too light for him to agree to) but all in all, nice work.
I’m not sure this turns us into true contenders, but considering our limited resources it’s a nice mix of trying to appease RW (priority OL FA, Draft: RB, OG, WR), and not go into a full tear-down.
Focusing back on Cade…
I remember watching him when SDSU played my alma mater, Montana State. He was a force for which we had no answer. It was a bit of a relief to see him continue to grow and post solid performances for two straight seasons.
I hadn’t thought of the Lockett comp, which surprises me now that the thought is in my head. I’m not sure if he goes R2 like your horizontal board, even though FCS status doesn’t seem to be the hang-up like in the past.
If he’s available in R3 (and we have a pick somehow), I hope he is on the list to consider. Interesting value question for WR- Eskridge in R2 or Johnson in R3?
In fairness, a horizontal board isn’t where players will go. For example, I only had 10 first round players. It’s just the grade I have on them. Some will go a round earlier, some a round later than the consensus view (whatever it is).
If Cade lasted to round four, I’d still have a R2 grade on him.
My guess is Cade Johnson will go early in the 3rd round, which is exactly where Tyler Lockett was drafted! Though I hope he lasts a bit further (and he might with the depth in WR talent), and the Seahawks can have a shot at drafting him.
I would agree with that projection
That’s because (most) people on Twitter just repeat the consensus they’ve heard instead of studying and forming their own opinion. (or if they do put out a take against the grain, many times it’s just to stir up controversy and clickbait and not really backed up)
Having put in an obscene amount of time watching college prospects since last July — I’m telling you now… the group think in ‘draft media’ and especially ‘draft twitter’ is ridiculous.
Most people you think have put in the time and hours haven’t. Nowhere near. They just regurgitate what’s out there.
Some big names do it too — or rely on what other people tell them.
Not saying at all that I’ve got it sussed. I haven’t. Not in the slightest.
But there’s a reason we end up talking about certain players before anyone else and there’s no secret formula or expertise — it’s just putting in the time.
This is one of the things that I like most about the site Rob. Your conviction (and accuracy) to go with your own evaluation is second to none.
I remember last year, there were a number of guys that you had been high on for months and it wasn’t until the last days before the draft (TP’s last podcast stands out) that a number of them got much national traction.
I specifically remember TP saying things like: “Player A is flying up draft boards, and Player B is now getting some first round buzz.” These were bittersweet, in that it validated what many of us knew (thanks largely to your due diligence), but it also was a douse of cold water that some of these guys we had hoped might fall to the ‘collective’ mock drafts were in fact going to be well and gone.
Thanks, appreciate that
https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1364527851156955138
We so need to get you access to XOS, Rob. Imagine the evaluations you could do and content you could put out if you didn’t just have to scrape stuff together from broadcast angles on YouTube, etc.
Maybe it’s just my impression, but it seems the barrier is falling a bit on access to that. Lots of “random” dudes out there posting clips on YouTube and Twitter seem to have gotten it. Maybe a contact around the Senior Bowl when you go, or through the Scouting Academy, or a phony “Head of International Scouting” title at TDN if that’s what it takes… 😜
If anyone has any details on how to gain access, let me know. I’ll see what I can find out.
You are right — with access to this we could take things to a new level.
Latest Brock & Salk podcast was another frustrating listed for me.
Only skirt the issues around the Wilson topic again.
Then talk about Wagner & Adams’ future, come to the realisation the huge massive challenge Seattle faces this off-season, yet never go into it.
Shame. It’s a quality pod but to me the last few have been lacking.
It’s unfortunate. With a massive salary cap issue, an unhappy QB and a team seriously in search of answers, you’d think the local media would be cracking at a chance to dive into all this.
What I find strange about the podcast is they literally identify the magnitude of an issue, then rather than tackle it head on, they move on.
It’s a bit like buying a car, being shown the car, then instead of a test drive, you’re told that’s it you’ve got to leave now.
Or a more vulgar comparison of lots of foreplay but no end product.
Or like the press refusing to discuss why the front office came out and said “pass rush is a huge issue and we’re going to address it” and then didn’t.
But thank goodness we weren’t in the dark on how good Pete Carroll thinks Bobby Wagner is.
It’s important to make sure you get the answer you need.
The fourth question on how good Bobby Wagner was really got Pete to shed some light on the important issue.
It’s sad. I recall when Eric Williams was on the Seahawks beat, and he had weekly chats with fans. He was asked ‘isn’t it tough to cover a team that is losing a lot?’ and his answer was basically ‘no it’s not, there’s always a story to be found that is newsworthy.’
I always liked that answer. Shows professional curiosity. What we get from most of our beat guys is bland banality.
And Gregg Bell seems to think that because Wilson didn’t say he wants to leave and publicly spell out all of his grievances to him in a conference call, that this is a non story.
Because that’s how it works.
Any opinion from either of you guys as to why Brock & Salk have only identified the issues but not done a deep dive on them? That’s not like Huard from what I’ve heard from him over the years, not at all. And it can’t be fear of retribution by the team can it? I mean they’re independent entities. Brock is national now. Just lack of focus? Trying not to offend listeners who want sunshine and lollipops when it comes to the Seahawks?
The foreplay comment was very funny Rob. 😀
I wish I knew.
I’m not sure. I thought Brock was hesitant to really dive into what they should do with Wagner/Adams, perhaps because he knew his comments would blow up.
especially strange since Brock spoke so fervently about the Mariners just minutes before
Less at stake I guess. ‘Ex-NFL player Brock Huard slams Mariners’ isn’t a headline. ‘Fox analyst Brock Huard says Seahawks should trade Wagner’ very much is a headline.
Not sure if I should be angry or sad about how much they messed up 2020.
It’s crazy…some franchises wouldn’t just fire the whole FO after a mess-up this big but they’d be driven out of town and banished forever.
They had like 55m, right?
Remove all players they signed, and sign these guys instead (maybe not all unrestricted FA, but they could’ve find some that work):
1 DE: Kerry Hyder, Morgan Fox, Everson Griffen, Emmanuel Ogbah, Shaq Lawson, Mario Addison.
Hyder and Fox costed around 1-1,5m. We could bump that to 4m
Rest are between 4 and 10m. We could bump any of their contract by 2-3m
Lets give Ogbah 11m. Lets sign Ogbah and Hyder for 15m total
Lets sign an OG to make Russ more happy. OG prices were between 3-6m. Sign one with the CAP hit of 7m
Give the defense a bit more power, sign a good CB too. Fuller costed 4m in CAP, lets bump that to 7m
Or get Logan Ryan, Anthony Brown, Pierre Desir, Breeland or Rhodes. Their contract were around 3-6m. I think they could’ve get one of them for 6-7m CAP hit in 2020.
If they really wanted another S get HaHa Clinton-Dix. He costed almost 4m, they could’ve get him for a 6m hit
That is still around 35m
Max CAP hit for a WR was around 6m. Show the list to Russ and let him choose one. Pay that man around 6-7m, keep your QB happy
Get a TE: Hooper, Ebron, Eifert, Toilolo, Lewis, Seals-Jones all went for 4m or less. Pay one 5m and it’s done.
That is still just 47m
Apart from Gurley, Howard and Gordon all RBs went for 3m or less. Get two of them for 4m.
That is 51m, you still have some money (sign Shell, Mayowa), but if in the 55m space ir and draft is not yet counted, they could’ve cut some costs between these signings.
You have passrush, coverage and a happy QB. And most importantly, you don’t piss away 2x R1 and an R3 and a good safety…
Imagine all those draft picks… They could make awesome trades with the Saints, Eagles and other teams with major CAP issues.
OK, we’ll give you R3 for Fletcher Cox and an R6…
And they could draft these cool rookies too.
I like your interviews Rob, but it hurts to listen these as we’re most likely won’t be able to draft these guys 🙁
For sake of argument, if the Seahawks do trade Wilson this year, do you think its more likely that they trade for another QB (Prescott, Watson…), look to free agency (Fitzpatrick, Dalton…), or look to draft a QB (Mac Jones, Mond, Wilson…)? I don’t buy that the Seahawks will not have to do a major reset unless they turn the picks around for another franchise QB, (which I’m not the biggest fan of). I’m of the opinion that they should divorce sooner rather than later, as I feel Wilson has already given the Hawks a “last chance.” If you ship Wilson, you have to ship just about everyone of value IMO. Reset with a strong core lead by DK, Lewis, Dj Reed, and Brooks. Start the reset strong with a solid draft, which leads into my next idea, about the bigger picture of the team.
I think without the pressure of pleasing Wilson and filling holes in their roster through the draft, they could instead draft the best available players how they did in 2010-2012. Rob had an article detailing the idea that the FO misses out on talent because they leave themselves with a hole they have to fill. With holes all over the place and no pressure to make the playoffs or anything like that, they can do a proper rebuild. If they try another “on the fly,” rebuild, we will have more of the same just minus a franchise QB to do the patchwork. If this is the case we won’t be able to truly contend through the duration of PCJS’ extensions.
Doing something on the lines of this will let PCJS actually learn from some of the mistakes, take a holistic approach, and start the process again. They seem to just be prolonging their fate rather than accepting that it just isn’t going to work out right now. As Rob put it, “Rip off the band-aid.” The divorce will give both parties a fresh start, one that is much needed IMO. We all know the FO has the ability to build a team, win games, and win championships. With their extensions, they have quite some time to get the team back to a championship caliber level. Lets get back to the basics instead of kicking the can down the road.
Rob, have you got a chance to study Payton Turner closely? I saw you had a small writeup on him. For the longest time I could not figure out who he reminded me of. Of course without measurables it’s hard to fully get a feel for someone’s full athletic profile, but he’s listed at 6-foot-5, 270 pounds. He looks like he’s built a lot like Carlos Dunlap and Dunlap was listed as 6 foot-6, 278 pounds at the Combine when he was coming out of Florida. Seems like he would be a good target to have in the third round if the Seahawks decide to trade down out of the second to get more picks
I have. I really like the way he leans and bends with great balance for his size. Really threatens the edge. Not convinced his testing would be extreme or that he’d have an amazing 10-yard split but he’ll round the arc. Only losing snap I saw D’Ante Smith have at the Senior Bowl was vs Turner. Has the size and length. Interesting player. Doesn’t answer his DM’s.
I’ve have been in a wait and see type mode lately with the team. I have a co-worker who is irate that the team hasn’t said anything. But I keep asking him, what do you expect them to say that would be productive? You can do all the “We love Russ and want him here forever” stuff but what does that do? Russ is clearly tired of the lip service and would he really care if PCJS came out and said anything? Even if they said we completely agree with you, he wouldn’t care. Any kind of media quote can only go bad for the team. It’s down to action now. I’m sure there has at least been some kind of communication between player and team but until there is a cut/restructure/trade/ or FA signing we are going to have no answers on who is gonna blink.
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