In the last two years, Jeremy McNichols has exactly 3000 rushing yards and 43 rushing touchdowns. He also added 910 receiving yards and another 10 scores.
That’s some college career.
He’s listed as 5-9 and 212lbs but he plays tough. There are some similarities to the guys he replaced at Boise State — Jay Ajayi and Doug Martin.
Tony Pauline ranks him as a third round prospect. He might go a little earlier following the news Nick Chubb and Elijah Hood will be returning to Georgia and North Carolina respectively. Pauline notes, however, “Opinions on McNichols are mixed. While we presently grade him as a third round prospect some scouts believe he’s more of a fourth or fifth rounder.”
This article has more on his progress this year:
This season has been one of growth for McNichols, who was open in the offseason about all the areas in which he wanted to improve. He discussed running smarter to avoid injury and has not missed a game. He wanted to improve as a blocker, so he has sat in on film study sessions with the offensive line. He aimed to gain good weight and added about 10 pounds, enabling him to break tackles while still breaking big runs.
McNichols and Boise State play Baylor in the Cactus Bowl tomorrow.
Take a look for yourself in the video above. He’s a name to monitor with the Seahawks likely to add a running back at some point during the off-season.
Looks like an interesting guy for sure I don’t think there is any doubt we will take an RB before the end of day #2 and there seem to be lots of interesting options.
Have anyone looked in detail at Wyoming RB Brian Hill? I have only watched hi-light tapes which are often misleading. But I like his running style. Seems to have a slightly wider base like Beast mode.
Yup.
I like him a lot, but IMO he won’t fit a zone scheme. Doesn’t have the lateral agiity and his hips are stiff. He’s gonna be a damn good back for someone though.
There’s this new style of highlight videos coming out. They’re ‘concept highlights.’ Very cool. A lot like Hudl. They show the positive traits. They split the video into 2 and show the first 6 games, then the next 6-7. I beleive BYU RB Jamaal Williams was the first they’ve done.
V12, where are you catching those style of videos? I still like DBD it’s nice to see what causes a negative play and it’s helped here spotting players that are in others videos….
Yes, DB is far and away the best tool to use unless you have access to the All-22 tape.
Can you share a link where they can be found Vol. Sounds really interesting. Thanks for the info.
Part 1:
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=AIk6WTf_jq4
I know I sound like a broken record but I don’t see anyone stopping that Dallas offense. To beat them you need to hope for a turnover or two, some special teams plays and out score them.
Holding them under 28 would be a success IMO.
They’re starting to get a nice pass rush too. Amazing what a great o line can do for a young QB and a ground game
Atlanta can score points. Their D would be the question mark.
Their pass rush is a byproduct of the offense. If teams are playing from behind or trying to keep up, they are far more likely to throw the ball down the field, which takes more time. That offense is so good that opposing teams feel they need to push on offense because dallas is going to put up their points at some point.
sure. but the pass rush is developing, nonetheless.
If our LBs play lights out like they have been recently to take away the run game, not allow the play action to get going, and Sherman limits the damage Dez does, as he has in the past, I have no doubt we can put up more points than them.
Agree as well that ATL vs. DAL would be a very interesting game to watch.
Dallas and Atlanta are improving rapidly on defense before the playoffs begin. Dallas like you said is getting a pass rush, but Atlanta has been shutting teams down as of late to go along with a historically good offense. I think those two are going to meet in the NFC title game. Green Bay is right thee too because of Aaron Rodgers, but their defense is still awful.
5’9″ 212 lbs is very stout. That is a very powerful build.
I knew Cuba was staying at school, I didn’t know about Hood. That’s another good runner that won’t be in Seattle next year. Foreman is looking better buy the day. Maybe Samaje Perine as well.
Having a great oline can really make the whole team better, not just the offense.
Chubb that is
Maybe a late round/UDFA prospect?
RB-Anthony Wales, (366-current rank at cbssports.com), W. Kentucky 5-9/195.
2016-13 games, 237/1621, 6.84/avg, 27-TD’s (#1 in FBS) + 30/323/2 receiving
2015-11 games, 155/1091, 7.04/avg, 9-TD’s + 27/225/2 receiving
—->Plus, he had a pretty good bowl game. 12/20/16, Boca Raton Bowl *35 carries for 245-yds,(7.0/avg.), 3-TD’s + 4 catches for 84-yds*. 329-total yards = nearly 8 yds. every time he touched the ball. Stats per cfbstats.com
McNichols is interesting as a downfield runner. I am guessing he will go late in the draft.
Here’s another interesting running back that the Seahawks can use right now – our own Alex Collins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OIn7BLfUOY
Alex Collins looked decent in the last game. He showed some toughness and grit. The OL picks up the run blocking just a bit, he might be a very good RB in the NFL. Prosise, Collins and Rawls are a pretty good trio…. and if they hold onto Reece, even better.
There are some nice options to think about for RB, especially round #2. With the severe injury to Lockett, I’m wondering if WR might become a much more pressing team need. This is where WR Ross keeps coming to mind…. the explosiveness and game breaking ability would be a great compliment to what Seattle has…. he is small, but that never stopped anyone from being a game wrecker.
SS/FS, WR, DT, DE, RB seem to be the top 5 need positions on the team. I guess I forgot OT, but somehow I think they might fill one spot with a veteran in the offseason. Perhaps Ifedi will be the RT they have been looking for, then they can find an OG to play RG. I see the OL making improvements each week, even when they look terrible. The problem is consistency imo. When they fail, they fail hard.
Mcnichols looks good in the video above but I haven’t seen him otherwise. Adding mid-rounds options and competent veterans to compete for RBs is really what this team needs.
I feel that the run game suffering is mostly because of the O-line. Once we have a functional O-line and competent TEs (many poor games by Willson this year), the run game will take off. Think of it, there are three guys on the line who are rookies and another who is in his second year and regressed. Who is the veteran on this line? At least in 2011/12, they had Unger and Gallery for a year; guys who had years of experience in this league. This year, who is there to guide the rookies? They need to sign at least one good FA O-lineman in the offseason.
Having said that, we still need competition at the RB position, but I think that’s mostly getting players who will stay healthy than the ones who will overrun the defense like Lynch.
Finally, what do you think of getting Okung back if the Broncos release him? I know he is injury prone and stuff but he will provide valuable leadership to the unit at least for a couple years.
I think Okung leaving was deliberate. Seattle’s offense demands a lot from the OL physically. I think he chose to go to a more pass-friendly operation for a reason. He was banged up a ton in Seattle.
Another reason they really need to reconsider the ZBS scheme they run.
They do run man blocking concepts as well. Talent-level (or lack there-of) is the real issue.
They’re always going to be a ZBS based running team with Cable.
And that is another reason to can cable start over. Special teams, offense, none of those coaches should be safe after what we have seen on a weekly basis.
One of my favorite backs. Has traits that will fit at the next level. Former Chris Petersen recruit too.
Love his determination. Kid is built like a truck. Good balance, fights through traffic, and doesn’t let his feet get tangled in said traffic.
Amazing production too.
Glad there’s finally a post on him.
Jay Ajayi slid to the 5th due to ‘knee concerns.’ What’s the excuse gonna be for this cat if he does?
Is that a Lotulelei flashing at LB for UNLV on almost every play?
I like Mcnichols quite a bit. I’m particularly looking at RB’s receptions this year after seeing Procise and what he brought t the game. Man I hope Procise gets better but if not or it takes some time it’d be nice to have some version of that on the the field.
Prosise leads a!l rookie RBs in pass catching efficiency.
The more I think about our OL the less the sense the ZBS scheme we run makes.
We have drafted big, athletic explosive guys without much experience. Why not simplify the scheme that lets them use their size and explosiveness. Instead we run a scheme that is ideal for smaller, faster OL men that an work together as a unit.
Everyone says we had the top rushing attack with Beast Mode. Exactly we had a generational talent at RB and the most mobile QB in the league. Most of the big runs were in misdirection and zone reads etc. Take Wilsons running yards out and the run game would have been average at best.
Also with the ZBS scheme under Cable we have always been one of the worst units when it comes to short yardage and goal line offense even with Beast Mode. That is why Bevel called a pass in the SB because our OL does not just line up and blow up the guy across from them.
I firmly believe that the first and most important decision that PC/JS can make this off season is moving on from the ZBS scheme.
If someone can make a compelling case for keeping this scheme I would love to hear it.
The counter would be that when it works, it can be unstoppable. (look at Dallas) Lynch hardly played last year, but yet Seattle was one of the most dangerous running teams in the league with a similar group of misfit offensive line players. It took a number of games last year, but at some point, things clicked and Rawls was being considered one of the best backs in the league.
The goal for the front office has been to get younger, cost controlled and more athletic. The problem has been that in succeeding with those goals, they’ve also become incredibly inexperienced. Teams are just using brute force and overpowering the line with numbers.
If you believe Cable’s rhetoric that he can turn a garbage man into a quality ZBS player, then the answer is to let the group stay together and continue to grow. If you (like me) believe that the system and plan aren’t working then you probably need to reevaluate their entire process, both personnel and scheme.
How long has it been since Cable’s ZBS worked consistently? Its never worked for an entire season! It worked for the second half of 2013, worked again in a more limited fashion (lesser run blocking, better pass pro) in 2014, then faltered last season and cratered this year.
Cable’s scheme does not work anymore in the NFL. His talent evaluation is terrible, though he isnt solely to blame for that. Ifedi should have been playing RT, and we should have signed a mid-range talent at G and T.
We cut Evans, only to immediately lose Ifedi to injury and watch him play well for NO. That was a mistake on both Cable and JS’s part. Imagine Evans at RG and Ifedi at RT instead of what we had. Coulndt have been worse, thats for sure…Glowinksy played horribly this week, and has been struggling mightily for weeks. Fant has no business on an active roster.
Too much resource has been invested in Seattle’s line over the last 6 seasons for there to be no heat on Cable. His line’s performance demands an accounting, and he should not be free from the microscope.
I firmly believe the NFL has passed him by and Seattle needs to move on from him, now, while there is still time to harness the peak seasons of our core members and before guys like Chancellor see their performance drop off a cliff.
I wouldn’t worry so much about whether they are ZBS or power blocking. The issue is that on any play – someone isn’t able to hold their block or they miss their block, or an unexpected stunting or blitzing linemen isn’t blocked. It is the coaching and abilities of the players, not the scheme they are in.
All I ask is that each player block one defender. That’s all they can do and it’s all I expect of them. When they don’t do it I get disappointed.
Scheme does play a part though. ZBS takes long to learn, relies on several factors. Straight man scheme emphasises size/physicality, which Seattle’s line is built around. It’s like they’ve tried to create the biggest, most athletic ZBS run scheme. They might be better off going to man moving forward.
Agree 100% Rob they have likely the most athletic, explosive OL in the league based on TEF. Would love to see them run a scheme that lets these guys play to their strength and fire off the ball.
For example Ifedi is about a far from the typical ZBS guard as you could ever find.
If they were taking late round picks or udfa like Sweezy for example to try and save money and build an OL then the ZBS makes sense but to spend 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks on elite athletes then put them in a system that requires a different skill set.
I have no doubt they were trying to create some type of hybrid power ZBS scheme but has not worked. Please just get back to basics an build a functional OL.
I truly believe if we had even an average OL we would be 3 time SB champs now. Instead despite one amazing SB and a great run it feels like the SB window is closing.
I agree, Rob.
if Zone blocking takes a special skill set and takes time to learn, then in a salary cap world it may be too difficult to work on a consistent basis. There are always injuries, players coming and going, so it makes more sense to work in a system that others do and have a wider supply of players that fit.
KISS
I know Bevell take a ton of heat with the Hawks fan base and I think that is the case with most OCs in the league. OC is a pretty thankless job in most cases.
I know I am a minority but I think he has done a pretty good job. Can you imagine trying to design an offense when your OL can’t protect your QB or get any push in the run game?
I would like to see him get Graham more involved particularly in the red zone but I really don’t think he is the problem and Russ is obviously comfortable with him.
I would like to this offense one year with a decent OL to see what they can do.
Why should I feel sorry for the coaching when it is the coaching and general manager that created the offensive line problem?
I am rooting for these players and hate to sound negative about them, but don’t you think that someone like Fant could use a year on the practice squad before they are thrown to the wolves? Why was Britt moved through two positions before he finally found a third position he could play? What happened to Gilliam, why did they start him if he couldn’t play the position? Is Ifedi going to mature into a decent right guard or if he is moved to right tackle will he perform better or worse? If they don’t move Ifedi then why did they spend a first round draft pick on a guard when they needed a left tackle?
Also what is the future of Odhiambo and Hunt, two players who have actually played their positions in college? I feel like they picked Hunt, a center, in case Britt didn’t work out. But wouldn’t it be nice if both of these players were good enough to start? There are a lot of questions left with this offensive line and with the coaching decisions.
Yes your right – Graham isn’t the problem. Unfortunately he isn’t being used as the solution to red zone troubles. Perhaps they will have to design some new passing plays before he will be of use.
Fant wouldn’t have made the practise squad. Someone would’ve signed him. Confirmed by John Clayton during pre-season.
Art Thiel made the following case yesterday: “…two developments from last winter are the driving forces behind two losses in the past three games that is so unlike the Seahawks’ modus operandi in previous Decembers…the first is the failure to develop an adequate plan for the retirement of Marshawn Lynch, and the second is the failure in free agency to find adequate help for the offensive line.”
Assistant HC is Tom Cable. Both of these areas are his responsibility, including the player selection and scheme implementation. He is the third most powerful person in the Front Office. He needs to be held accountable.
I would argue that even our (above?) average RB’s would have done fine behind an average OL. You shouldn’t have to have a HOF RB to have a running game. How do you plan for a surprise retirement of the best RB in the league that exposes your Achilles heel? You get rid of it when you had a chance. You could argue that if we had a decent OL, Lynch wouldn’t have retired last year. He had the lowest YPC in his career as a Hawk, he was fighting for every yard he got and got injured. He wasn’t having fun anymore. Maybe we wouldn’t have had so many RB/QB injuries this year too.
Bottom line, Cable should be fired or demoted below our OC/DC as an OL Coach, but he won’t be because Carroll is loyal and our running game has been really good for a long time (but that was because of Lynch, not Cable.) Our pass protection has been below average to horrible for awhile now.
Both starting tackle positions should be filled in FA (not draft) and 1 of our top 2 draft picks needs to be a future tackle even if it is a bit of a reach so we have a replacement plan in place. Gilliam/Sowell need to be waived (low floor, low ceiling), Fant given a chance to compete for backup swing tackle. Ifedi has also been playing like crap (our first round draft pick, thanks Cable). Here’s the new OL next year.
LT- Free Agent signing (Fant backup)
LG – Glowinski (Odhiambo backup)
C – Britt (Hunt backup)
RG – Ifedi (Odhiambo backup)
RT – Free Agent signing (Draftee backup)
Based on other comments on SDB I’m also wondering if Ifedi would make a better RT then RG (RT was his college position). If so, Glow would move back to RG, which was his position last year, and the lineup could look like this.
LT- Free Agent signing (Fant backup)
LG – Free Agent signing (Odhiambo backup)
C – Britt (Hunt backup)
RG – Glowinski (Odhiambo backup)
RT – Ifedi (Draftee backup)
Obviously, Cable needs to do better selecting Free Agents and I don’t have confidence in his abilities to do that, but if he does and we also get continued growth from Britt/Glow/Ifedi we’ve got our average OL. There is also a chance Odhiambo (our 3rd round pick last year who played LT in college) might be win out at a LG position but we haven’t seen much of him this year. If he was that good, I would think he would be playing LT instead of Fant who is way over his head right now.
OL Action Plan
1. Fire/Demote Cable (wishful thinking on my part)
2. Sign 2 above average OL in FA
3. Draft a future OL starter
Oh yea, I’d also like an RB picked with the other of the top two picks.
If the coaches were honestly graded on the performance of their units, I’d say Cable would get at best a “D” average over his years here so, yes, he should be replaced, just based on the performance (or lack thereof) of his guys. It’s his responsibility and he’s not getting the job done, otherwise we would have had an “average” OL by now. AND- Just the thought of hoping for an “average OL” as a best outcome is whacked. At the vary least the OL coaching staff needs a coach that can actually coach up players so we don’t see them standing around scratching their heads looking for someone to cut block and whiff on while RW is being bombed – every game. PC’s being loyal to his coaches shouldn’t be a factor as he keeps saying “its all about the team” and even he should be able to see that the OL is, and has been crappy mainly due to poor coaching for years now. The “team” needs better OL coaching in order to become at least “average”. I’d say the running game is in the same boat, with that same coach having significant responsibility there as well.
I don’t know about y’all, but when I hire someone to do a job and they repeatedly fail to live up to expectations, they get fired and replaced by someone than can do the job as expected. That’s why Cable needs to take his services elsewhere IMO.
Compare Arizonas injury riddled line and their performance against our D. Our D is considered Elite–and certainly sees itself that way–yet their line gave up 1 sack to our D. AZ’s D is very good, but its not Seattle’s, yet their line outplayed ours all game long.
Bevell can be maddening, but the line and running game are coordinated by Cable. Not because Bevell cant do it, but because Carrol chose to give so much power to Cable. So the run game isnt really Bevell’s fault, and the passing game falters not because Bevell doesnt have a decent passing offense or players, nor usually because he cant adapt or isnt good at playcalling (though he has his failures to be fair), but because the line is among the worst couple groups in the league.
Bevell is worth keeping around, and I would like to see him given a promotion to Asst Head Coach and see Cable move on.
I don’t know who is at fault, or whether it is player coaching or old play designs. I just think it is time for some new blood in the offensive coaching area. The Broncos did it with Kubiak during a winning run. I thought the coach drove Peyton Manning crazy with his run first vs pass happy ideas. But it worked. Took awhile but they figured it out and capitalized on their offensive strengths and Peyton Manning’s arm.
Surely there is some offensive coach in college or on another pro team that is ready to step up.
Thinking about RB options in Rd #3-6 range who might be a fit. What other guys am I missing?
-Perrine (Oklahoma)
-Hunt (Toledo)
-Mcnichols (Boise)
-Hill (Wyoming)
-Williams (BYU)
So far I think Hunt and Perrine are my favorite options as a big back to compliment to Prosise / Rawls. But really have to wait and see Hunt at the combine.
It’s not a great bunch. The position has taken a hit with several choosing not to declare.
The best talent could go early.
I guess the question is how early for a running back? I was hoping to use those first two picks on defense to boost the defense. I would change my mind if there was a difference maker on offense available. Is Foreman or McCaffrey enough to be a difference maker and a good value in the first round/early second round?
I was thinking offensive linemen could be found in the mid rounds. Even though the line needs improvement I just don’t see the draft board laying out an early pick in that position.
Would early third round be too late to find a decent running back? That’s probably the range to find another Collins, Prosise or Rawls. So maybe no one significantly better, but hopefully in healthy condition. I’m thinking it would be a range to find a replacement but not an upgrade to the running game.
They have to rebuild the running game as a priority. If they can do that in FA, they can look at the defense. Even then they need to find another back.
I agree Rob! I have been fundamentally against an RB in round #1 unless it was a generational talent like Zeke or Fournette.
After these last couple of weeks and another injury to Rawls I would be completely open to the idea of a big back like Foreman in round #1 if he tests ok in the combine.
A combination of Foreman and Prosise with Rawls getting 5-6 carries a game as a change of pace might be exactly what we need.
You have me sold. Fix the run game no matter what it takes and the rest of the team improves as well.
Coleman from Udub (if he declares), Tennessee’s Alvin Kamara, Arizona St’s Kallen Ballage (if he declares)
*Clemson’s Wayne Gallman
forgot Coleman if he declares I really like him as well!
Over from London for Xmas and being taken last minute today to the Holiday Bowl WSU v Minn by my cousin & sister who are Cougar grads! Great surprise. Apart from Luani is there anyone else I should pay attention to from a draft perspective??
Rob et al –
Lynch was drafted 12th overall, and unless we trade the farm for the next few years, or have a seasonal collapse, I don’t expect us to be drafting in that slot for some time. So while I may salivate over the thought of Fournette in our backfield alongside Rawls and Prosise, it is highly unlikely to happen.
So, the Seahawks are going to have to get creative again. As an outside the box thought experiment, is there a running back in this league that you would trade for? In Lynch’s second season he was already being supplanted by Fred Jackson and he was traded during his 3rd season. Could lightning strike twice? Is there a back that fits the Seahawks mold that is either out of favor, not getting a chance, underperforming, or whatever, that could be a target? I do wonder about Todd Gurley, but I don’t watch him enough to know if he’s a true bust, or if the Rams are just so bad that he’s completely ineffective. But as I recall he was another back that the Seahawks liked and that this community liked before that draft. He’ll be in his third season next year, like Lynch. Would the Rams, under new leadership, be willing to blow it up and take a draft pick(s), especially since they traded away so many picks to draft Goff?
If not Gurley, anyone else come to mind that is worth a trade?
Finally, Merry Christmas and happy new year to all! And thanks for giving me so much good reading during the downtime in the office.
I think someone like Gurley would face the same problems with the Seahawks that he sees with the Rams. It’s impossible to run when you’re hit in the backfield on every play. In the last game, the Cardinals were getting to Rawls at the same time Wilson was handing him the ball. Our running game cannot be fixed by simply adding a RB – we need to do that, but we also need to fix the problems with the offensive line. I think we need to simplify the blocking scheme and emphasize getting a body on a body. No more whiffing on blocks like we seem to do on every play. I don’t know how PCJS can stand to watch that in almost every game. It drives me crazy (and the fact that I’m crazy drives my wife crazy).
I agree, and like Gurley you can tell it’s starting to affect Rawls’ confidence. I don’t think we need to change the entire scheme, but some more veteran players that can help the younger guys with their assignments could go a long way. We saw the difference between Hunt and Britt. I would like to see Seattle sign someone like Kevin Zeitler or Rick Wagner, or even a combination. If it means having to release or trade a core player somewhere else, then bite that bullet.
I absolutely agree – drafting Fournette doesn’t solve the O-line either, yet here we are talking about the Seahawks need for a bellcow running back. I love what Rawls and Prosise bring to the table, but again, they seem to be on the shelf too much for my liking.
If the Seahawks want to fix their running game they are going to have to get creative. They won’t be drafting in the top 15, either for a RB or for a Tackle. I’m just suggesting that if they feel that they still don’t have a bellcow back, they may have to get creative – either changing the formula of what they look for, and the essence of their run game, or look at other means to find someone that fits their ideals. I’m not as confident in the team at this moment to find the 4th, 5th round gems. They drafted Spencer Ware in 2013, but that is back when McCloughan was still with the team. The past few drafts have not yielded as much.
Again, we’ve talked a bit about the O-line, draft eligible running backs, but not so much about a trade. It’s just my observation that while the seahawks have drafted a lot of running backs in the past, their biggest success was the one they traded for. Could they take that route again?
the absolute air ball/ whiffs on blocks is mystifying and really points to coaching, in my mind. Between those and the failure to pick up stunts and switches, I think the org has to really start looking at coaching/player development, and if they’re selecting great athletes with very low on the field instincts.
Yeah – I’ve followed the blog long enough to be familiar with Rob’s TEF formula, though I wonder too if the results this year are significant enough that the Seahawks re-evaluate their whole approach.
There also seems to be an arc to this though – between I think 2012/13/14 and 15, Football Outsiders had the Hawks offensive line in the top 10 for rushing, with, off memory, 3 top 5 finishes. At the same time, they have been bottom 10 in pass pro. Now, I’m not sure how much credit for that performance to give to whom: Lynch, Wilson’s legs, the line, etc. Over that same time, the team has steadily shifted from a run focus to a pass focus (in terms of overall play %). As they shift to a more pass focus, have the Seahawks tried to swap run blocking for pass blocking – and now they have neither? And did they mis-evaluate their own line at the time?
The line of Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy Giacomini, seemed to be bullies in the run game, not so much in pass pro. At the same time, much of the sack % was attributed, at the time, to Russell holding on to the ball too long. So, how much credit does the line deserve for the bottom ten pass ranking?
Did the front office give too much credit to the O-line for the run and not enough for the pass pro? Then guys leave and look good elsewhere? If Russell had passed as quickly in 2013 and 2014 as he does today, would the O-line have looked more like an average pass pro or better with an above average run game? The dominant narrative I’ve read is that the line has been bad for years, and this years is the worst. Well, I agree with the latter but not necessarily the former. The other theory is the Seahawks are deliberately going cheap on the O-line. Maybe. But again, maybe they just misjudged the performance and the value of that performance and thus, let guys walk or traded them.
I don’t think there’s any need to reconsider their approach to physical ideals and profile. After all, if you’re drafting the most explosive players at any position, that’s never really a bad thing. There aren’t many substandard college OL athletes prospering in the NFL these days.
It would help if the Seahawks weren’t relying on four players starting new positions for the first time, or being rookies. Or having a basketball playing rookie at LT. etc etc.
And because this young, green group haven’t performed at all — they might never get the chance to grow now.
It is so difficult to evaluate what the problem is with the line. I believe it is lack of experience. Pete seemed to suggest the team really dudnt make halftime adjustments and yet the results after the half were light years better. In an i terview after the game Britt also said no adjustments were made, the players just recommitted. Reviewing the tape of the goal line debacle prior to the half I see what appear to be assignment mistakes, Most glaringly on 4th down where Glow blocks inside to double the nose with Britt and Fant blocks outside to double the end with Graham, leaving an unimpeded gap for the defensive tackle who runs straight to Wilson. Im not sure who screwed up the assignment but the design isnt a play action pass with an unblocked defensive tackle. As Wilson is sacked Graham is breaking wide open.
And Rob I’m probably too optimistic but “haven’t performed at all” doesn’t seem entirely fair. Carolina, New England, and Philadelphia (and the second half against the Cardinals) were games the line performed successfully. The Eagles and Panthers do have strong defensive lines. My landing on inexperience as the culprit explains the wide variances in performance. That said, I also don’t have a feel for if the line will improve fast enough to make it either. Can’t really wait while the championship window is creaking closed.
So weird and frustrating. Close to the goal in the first half I was certain they wouldn’t score. In the similiar spot in the second half I was sure they would.
Slightly hyperbolic on my behalf. They certainly played well vs Carolina and Philly. I think NE would play a very different game on defense if the teams played again. On some snaps they only rushed two guys (!!!).
Agree Rob, as much as I respect BB, I couldn’t understand his passive rush approach.
Arizona flat out said that they have owned the Seahawks offensive line for three years. I believe them. So has the LA rams defense. The only reason the run game looked good was having an elite running back and RW scrambling for yardage.
Now we get to see that same thing in Dallas team, except they have a legitimate elite offensive line protecting two rookie talents. Do they miss blocks on pass protection? Yes occasionally they do, especially during blitzes. But most of the time they look pretty good.
I’m jealous!
I wonder how much the lack of confidence of our linemen just exasperate the issue. Before the season started Ifedi was standing up to Mike B. in practice and saying how he wasn’t going to be pushed around. Watching him now, he looks like a beaten man. Other teams are coming into games saying they are going to dominate our O line, and they do. They are getting bullied around and can’t do anything about it.
I’m no longer allowed to yell “will you please for the love of god block SOMEBODY???” during games 🙂
Doesn’t matter how explosive you are if you can’t hit your target!
Exactly. Exploding into thin air.
I can’t imagine LA trading Gurley in the division.
On Fournette, I think it’s unlikely they can get up to get him. But this is an aggressive team. And if they get OL help in FA, I wouldn’t rule it out.
Fantastic news about Lockett, he’ll be running on a treadmill in 4-6 weeks. It sounds like he will be good to go for training camp, although I might be getting ahead of myself. Him, Baldwin, and Prosise are the future core of our passing game IMO. Graham might be on there too if he is kept.
I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting Corey Davis or Cooper Kupp if they somehow fall to the 3rd round.
I really like Corey Davis, but I think he’s gone by the beginning of round 2. People knock him because he plays in the MAC, but so did Antonio Brown and Ben Roethlisberger and James Harrison.
Ohio St’s Curtis Samuel, ‘Bama’s Ardarius Stewart, W.Kentucky’s Taywan Taylor
One of the first times I have seen Taylor mentioned Vol. He is not a big receiver but wow does he ever just seem like a Hawks receiver. Great work ethic, ultra productive and would have a huge chip on is shoulder. Would love him as a mid to late round pick.
I really like Samuel, but I have no idea where he’ll go in the draft. He’s an explosive runner and receiver.
There YA GO!!! I was going to bring him up this morning V12,was just waiting for you…:) Love Samuel. Another player I want in a Hawk UNI, is Jordan Taylor at LG from Towson.He can easily beat out Glow. We will be able to check him out at the Sr. Bowl. He play’s LT at Towson and is domanant.
The thing that nobody talks about with Rawls is that he has below-average vision when choosing a lane so if something g opens up backside, (something Lynch was great at locating), he’s married to the hole he was supposed to hit. He’s honestly just a guy unless he has a good line opening holes for him. We have a subpar offensive line. Upgrade the line via free agency and draft and maybe your back in the draft becomes McCaffrey. He won’t go as high and he’s multi-dimensional. He would be a true weapon.
I love McCaffrey, everything about him except I wish he was a little heavier as I wonder about durability. I think he will go late first round or by mid second round. His versatility is too tempting, and he does have the potential to be a game changer.
From my point of view, we need to build from the trenches out. We need to be big, mean, and nasty. I’m hoping we make a move for Dontari Poe in the offseason. He fits that big role. That’s we haven’t drafted well, but have done well in FA.
If Bolles falls to us, I think that is an instant fix. Gilliam has been a huge disappointment and Sowell should be there as a backup. Bolles has a mean streak and could give us a bully that we haven’t had since Giacomini left. Dang needs to get nasty instead of playing scared. He has the tools and the athletic gifts, I just want to see him get scary.
As far as RB goes, we need a Blount type of back to compliment what we have. No more passes from the 1yd line. The only backs in our range that could do that would be Foreman at the end of the first and Jamaal Williams in the middle rounds. Foreman isn’t all that physical, but he has the size. Williams is tough, has swag, churns out positive yards on every run, but doesn’t have that elite burst. I’d spend a 3rd on him rather than a 1st on Foreman. I think it is a better value.
FA Poe
FA WR – like an Anquan Boldin or other tough as nails cheap veteran to help unite a locker room.
1st – Bolles
2nd – LB like a Riddick
3rd – Jamaal Williams
4th – Luani
And the rest for depth
I will admit that I’m feeling a little pessimistic, but I don’t think new players will make a big difference if we keep the same OL coach and scheme. Jahri Evans looked pretty terrible with us in the preseason, but he looks like a borderline all-pro with the Saints (with different coach and scheme).
Exactly that has been the point I am trying to make! Agree completely.
I don’t think you are being pessimistic so much as realistic. We haven’t made great gains via the draft. Always seem to make the wrong move in free agency. And lets not ever forget the Drew Nowak experiment and how long it took for the coaches to admit defeat on that one. When it comes to our OL it seems like we are often trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, and some of those square pegs are of dubious quality.
What have been the best moves in the PCJS era regarding the OL? Poaching Breno Giacomini off the Packers practice squad, moving Britt to center, and perhaps not chasing after JR Sweezy. It’s not bad luck. It’s the end result of a process that needs to be completely revamped.
Our tackle play is abysmal, and while I don’t dislike the Ifedi pick in hindsight he has been quite bad this year. Glowinski looks like a serviceable JAG (which is fine – he’s a 4th round pick). How do we improve for next year? With our current roster you hope and pray that Fant and Ifedi make great strides forward (not impossible, but Gilliam’s failure to do so this year was a huge blow). Then you still have to find a RT. I imagine we place a 3rd round tender on Gilliam as a hedge. Then what? Try to find a guy that is a cap casualty or someone available after the 1st/2nd wave of free agency? We signed and cut Eric Winston and Jahri Evans, 2 guys who could play. We signed and kept J’Marcus Webb and Bradley Sowell, 2 guys who couldn’t play.
There’s no guarantee the guys we have under contract for next year will improve to the degree they need to. Improving the OL should far and away be the main goal for this offseason. Is Bolles the answer at RT? Then do whatever it takes to get him. Think Ifedi can make the move to RT? Then give a good long look at Kevin Zeitler, even though it might take at least $10 million a year. Maybe make an aggressive push for Larry Warford?
The frustrating thing for me is that we knew all this last year. Our line play had to improve. Pete Caroll knew it. An yet here we are, with an offensive line that is just as bad, if not worse than one year ago. Is this the proverbial step back before we can take two (or more) steps forward next year? I certainly hope so. But if we don’t change our model of doing things I’m not going to expect a different result.
Why is Oline talent an issue for Hawks? They have spent top-5 draft capital on Oline in the draft since 2010. Are they just unlucky or does their scouting suck or does Cable deserve blame? They have made many questionable moves over the years such as starting Novak over Lewis, trading Unger and to a lesser extent releasing Bowie and Bailey. Who is responsible for these misses?
Also, it would be interesting to do a revisionist TEF/explosive scores analysis about the OL/RBs who have done well over the last two or three drafts. These are mid-late rounders whom Seattle had a chance to draft but chose not to.
OL: Bitonio, Trai Turner, Whitehair, Gabe Jackson, Mitch Morse. Marpet, Tre Jackson
RB: West, Howard, Tevin Coleman, David Johnson, Ajayi, Freeman
Hawks OL: Poole, Glowinski, Britt, Sokoli, Scott
Hawks RB: Michael, Rawls, Prosise, Ware, Small
I want to know how much explosiveness these athletes have. Currently, I feel they draft athletes who can run and jump, but who don’t have football instincts. They think they can teach the latter but it just hasn’t worked out that way.
I’m fascinated by Unger and Okung. They were always beat up and missing games with Seattle. Unger hasn’t missed a game in NO yet (I think that is the case?), and Okung just had his first healthy season of his career in Denver. Carpenter has been pretty healthy in New York. I am flummoxed.
I’m becoming more and more convinced that there is something about our scheme that wears down linemen. Maybe it’s the Seattle factor, where every other team comes in amped up and ultra physical because that’s what you have to do to beat Seattle.
There is no doubt our scheme is hard on the OL. I think it is why they have a hard time attracting veterans and one of the many reasons we have never signed an OL to a 2nd contract in the PC / JS era.
Well, Morse and Marpet were two of the most explosive OL we’ve seen enter the league in a while. Seattle didn’t have a shot at either, they were off the board before they picked. Bitonio passed the explosive test in terms of vertical and broad. Whitehair was hopelessly lacking explosion but he hasn’t been that great in Chicago. I don’t know about Turner but I liked him personally.
Miss St D-lineman Johnathan Calvin- 6’3, 275 lbs and was timed at 4.60 in the 40.
Working with Chuck Smith who is to pass rushers as George Whitfield is to QBs or LeCharles Bentley is to O-lineman.
? ?
* last year was 280 and ran a 4.68
Have you seen any tape on him Vol? What is is arm length like?
I haven’t seen much. Incredibly long arms.
Chuck Smith keeps hinting that he’s got the next great pass rusher under his wing that no one knows about. I wonder if its this guy.
I think him and Mathis could be real sleepers this draft.
Thanks for the find Vol I am going to try and find out whatever I can about him and any tape and will share.
Love these guys you find you are the best!
Thank, than you. Your far too kind.
*thank you, thank you.
What do you guys think of this trade
Titans get our 1st 2017, 2nd 2017, 1st 2018
Hawks get Titans 1st 2017, Rams 2nd 2017
2017 Draft
#15 Bolles RT
#35 Foreman RB
Then the rest of the draft focus on adding young talent on the defensive side of the ball.
If you think this team is in the middle of a championship window I would seriously consider making this move as the OL and run game should be set up with cheap young talent for the next 3-4 years.
OL Fant, Glow, Britt, Ifedi, Bolles (Rees, Hunt, Veteran ) switch to a Man / Power blocking scheme and let this young explosive OL to play to their strength.
RB Foreman, Prosise, Rawls (5-6 snaps a game for change of pace)
On defense overpay for Calais Campbell on a 3 yr deal and then focus on defense in the draft in 2018 /2019 to start finding replacements for Bennett, Avril, Campbell, Kam
Trevor, I would be behind this 100%. If they can somehow add a Zeitler to that, then look out next year. That might be getting too expensive though.
Personally I think the Hawk’s process has gotten a bit stale. Trading down for picks has helped with depth on a cash strapped team, but the last three years there has been a consistent net loss of talent overall. They need a shot in the arm, and two early-ish picks would certainly help.
I enjoyed Skaman’s post further up in this thread.
Given the “championship window” the team is in, it’s completely unacceptable to be this terrible on the offensive line. The offensive line has basically wasted a season of the team’s prime. To be the dominant team we have grown accustomed to, we need to improve on the offensive line.
We may discuss beefing up the defensive line or finding a future replacement for ET, but the fact is, our defense is elite the way it is. It may not be up to 2013/2014 standards, but it is good enough and is certainly better than basically every other contending team.
The old adage of defense wins championships doesn’t seem to ring true this year. Good offense and solid defense is likely going to win it this year. Heck, if the offense could improve, the defense could even afford to take a step back since it’s easier on the defense if the offense jumps out to a lead and/or controls the clock. (see dallas).
IMO the priority this offseason needs to be offense focused. The team needs to spend some money on the offensive line and bring in a quality FA or two that they expect to start. And, they should seriously consider replacing Cable. I am incredibly disappointed in his performance.
New England has the #1 scoring defense this year. How many players on their defense would start on Seattle? But like you said, Brady is the time of possession master and they get up on teams early.
No Offensive lineman drafted by the Hawks in the PC / JS era has been resigned! Not even one!!!!
Think about that for a second. We have never developed an OL player we have drafted to the point where they were considered good enough to sign to a 2nd contract. This despite spending the following 14 draft picks the last 7 years which includes (3) 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, (2) 3rd round picks and (2) 4th round picks
2010 Okung 1st round
2011 Carpenter 1st round, Moffitt 3rd round
2012 Sweezy 7th Round
2013 Seymour, Bowie 7th Round
2014 Britt 2nd round, Scott 6th round
2015 Poole and Glowinski 4th Rd , Sokoli 6th round
2016 Ifedi 1st round, Rees 3rd Round, Hunt 6th Round.
We have spent more draft capital on the OL than any other position group on the team but it is the only position we have not developed one player they thought was worth signing to a 2nd deal. I hope they Britt the first.
All this draft capital and we have the worst OL in the NFL and have not developed one core player. That to me tells me everything there is to know about the scheme and development plan the Hawks have utilized under Tom Cable. I know he is supposed to be a genius but it has not worked. The results speak for themselves.
My #1 hope this off season is they switch blocking schemes and allow this young talented group to grow together in a scheme that utilizes their talent and strengths. Please JS make a move and don’t let one position group ruin what could have been a truly great run.
A clear signal that their assessment and development is flawed
It’s hard to blame their assessment when the two highest picks where at the beginning of the regime and were also universally seen as good players. The best players available on the Oline have either been in the top 20 picks or have been sporadically located in the later rounds. The only 3 you should have expected a return on where the first 3 picked: One is constantly injured and playing poorly on another oline. One is overpaid and was man handled my Tony McDaniel last time they played against each other and other one retired with off field issues. After the first 2 rounds finding talent on the offensive line is just luck. The Seahawks have managed to create 4 starters out of that crapshoot.