Daniel Jeremiah, seen here explaining how tall Russell Wilson is
Yesterday we had a look at Mel Kiper’s first mock draft. Today it’s the turn of former scout and NFL Network analyst Daniel Jeremiah.
The Seahawks are again picking at #32, but this time they’re taking a defensive lineman — Mississippi State’s Preston Smith. I like Smith, but I think the jury’s out as to whether he warrants a place in round one. He has nice length (6-6, 270lbs) but the Seahawks love quick-twitch pass rushers. Would they spend a first round pick on a player to essentially play a similar role to Tony McDaniel?
Here’s Jeremiah’s take:
Smith is a versatile defensive lineman and plays with great effort, leverage and quickness.
Here’s NFL.com’s blurb on Smith, courtesy of Lance Zierlein:
Smith has been a solid, rotational defensive end for Mississippi State, but nothing too special. When studying tape long enough, you see traits and potential. With his long arms, plus hands and ability to play the run, Smith could be an interesting prospect inside or in a hybrid 3-4 front. As a 4-3 defensive end, he lacks the twitch to be an impact player.
Zierlein also compares Smith to Antonio Smith, currently with the Raiders.
In a year where the Mississippi State defense just went to another level, Smith was one of the key players to stand out. He looked really good at times. Senior Bowl chief Phil Savage put together this video reviewing his tape:
The length, the hands, the occasional flashes of brilliance. There’s a lot to like. In round one though? To the Seahawks? Again, I’m not overly sold. They’ve had so much success finding guys to play inside at low cost. They could buck that trend this year and go with a high pick — or they could continue to go with a plan that has worked. If they go for a defensive lineman in round one, an additional LEO/edge rusher would appear to make more sense.
Compared to Kiper’s mock, Devin Smith, Todd Gurley, La’el Collins and Eli Harold are all off the board. Let’s look at some of the players I had off the board in my projection, that would be available for Seattle according to Jeremiah:
Ereck Flowers (T, Miami)
I had Flowers going to St. Louis at #10. I think the Seahawks are pretty set at tackle. I don’t expect they’ll part ways with Russell Okung — I think eventually there’s a deal to be done there. Good left tackles are hard to find and vital for a teams success. You rarely let one walk and Okung is only 28 in October. Will they give up on Justin Britt at right tackle after one year, shifting him to guard? Again, I have my doubts. Having said that, I think Flowers is a strong player with a bright future. If they don’t re-sign James Carpenter it’s at least a move we should consider. And Flowers would afford some flexibility when it’s time to talk contract with Okung.
Jordan Phillips (DT, Oklahoma)
In my projection Phillips was the #12 pick to Cleveland. I think he’ll shoot up many boards when the combine comes around. He’s enormous, carries a lot of weight well and has incredible mobility and speed. He’s a Dontari Poe-type athlete. We’ll have to see if there’s any medical concerns — he missed time at Oklahoma. If he gets the all-clear he could easily go in the top-15. The Seahawks love size and length and it’d be intriguing to see Phillips at the heart of the defensive line. I’m just not sure Seattle feels they need to spend a first round pick on a big defensive tackle. Look what the defense has achieved these last few weeks without Brandon Mebane — a player some critics suggested was crucial to the run defense.
Cameron Erving (C, Florida State)
Erving was off the board at #23 in my projection to Detroit. He played well at left tackle, and even better at center. Erving is mature, flashes rare mobility for his size (he’s a converted D-lineman) and flexibility. He could start at guard, be the backup center and even be a swing tackle. He fills every spot on the O-line. A team like Seattle, that has struggled with injuries up front, could consider a guy like this. I just think they’ll be more inclined to target other areas and continue to let Tom Cable find ‘his guys’.
Shaq Thompson (LB, Washington)
I had Thompson at #25 to Carolina, purely as a BPA pick. There’s no denying his athletic potential. Jeremiah argues he doesn’t necessarily make the most of it — or have a definite position. He arrived at Washington as a safety prospect, ended up at linebacker before playing some running back. Some people believe he’ll end up at RB for the long haul. I like his skill set and think a creative defense can move him around to have an impact as a playmaker. Can he be another Deone Bucannon for a team? It’s hard to fit him into Seattle’s deep second-level roster.
Interestingly, Melvin Gordon drops to #27 (Dallas) and Gurley lasts until #31 (New England). The Seahawks would have the opportunity to make a small, cost-effective move up the board to target one of the top two running backs. This kind of trade could be of interest if Marshawn Lynch departs in the off-season. No skill players or Seahawky edge rushers made it to the pick. Kiper gave the team a chance to go after a Smith (who’s long gone in Jeremiah’s projection), a Harold or a Gurley. In this mock — moving up a few spots with potentially 10-11 picks to play with could be a wise move.
Jeremiah doesn’t have an offensive tackle leaving the board until pick #12 (T.J. Clemmings to Cleveland). I think this is unlikely given the premium value placed on athletic linemen these days. Just look at the 2013 draft and the way Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson jumped into the top ten mainly based on athleticism. Clemmings in particular has a chance to similarly enhance his stock at the Senior Bowl and then the combine. Also of note in Jeremiah’s mock — Trae Waynes is in the top ten, Arik Armstead the top-15 and Kevin White is in the top five.
The NFL.com blurbs by Zierlien offer some interesting comparisons and detail too. Devin Smith is compared to DeSean Jackson:
Smith isn’t just combine-fast, he’s game-fast and he would have had more than 12 touchdown catches during the 2014 season if he didn’t have to slow down and wait on throws so often. Smith has the feet and hips to become much more than a deep-ball specialist and should be able to step right into a gunner spot on special teams. He still needs to learn his craft and improve his hands, but he has rare speed to score from anywhere on the field.
No arguments there from me.
There’s also this on Maxx Williams:
Williams led all college tight ends with 9 explosive catches (25-plus yards) in 2014 and should be an early target for teams looking for pass-catching weapons.
You’ve got to love those explosive plays.
Some other notes today:
— The Senior Bowl rosters are slowly developing. The door is being left open for Marcus Mariota, who is yet to make a firm decision on his attendance. West Virginia wide receiver Kevin White and Kentucky pass rusher Bud Dupree will not take part, which is a shame.
— Bob McGinn put together a nice breakdown of the Seahawks for the Journal Sentinel (he’s a Packers writer). McGinn spoke to several execs and coaches in the league to write his piece and I found this quote most striking: “Several people indicated the Seahawks’ collection of wide receivers and tight ends was about as ordinary as ordinary can be.”
It could be argued that Marshawn was Wilson second best receiver this year. Yet he had under 40 catches.
I feel like this will be the second year in a row we take two pass catchers in the first 4 rounds.
I keep coming back to this — the defense is clearly elite. The running game is fantastic. Just imagine… just think for a second… what Russell Wilson could be with more weapons.
I think that is an image all of us dream about.
However, even with more weapons I still don’t think the Hawks will ever let Wilson loose while we have a decent running game. With Percy Harvin we weren’t that unstoppable offensive force (ya lots of other problems there). I think getting him more weapons is definitely a good thing, but I don’t think it’ll ever the highest of high priorities because of the cost of these types of players.
I agree I doubt we ever see a ‘cut loose’ Wilson in the passing game. But I think he can be even more efficient, even more productive. More TD’s in the red zone & he can get closer to his goal of 70% completions. That’d be worth going after.
I think it’s relatively useful to look at GB in some regards. While I realize JS doesn’t follow a Ron Wolf blueprint, I think he does fall into the school of thought that great QB doesn’t need elite/top of the draft WR talent. second and mid round picks, for a dozen years there. One luxury of elite QBs is they will find the open guy more often and not need to rely on 1 wr to consistently beat coverage. they can beat coverage themselves.
That’s not really GB’s current model though. Both Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb are elite wide receiving talents and both were drafted in the 2nd round. Before Devonte Adams emerged this year Rodgers has leaned primarily those two targets because he really had no one else reliable.
Right, both 2nd round picks as I noted.
Is it really fair to call 2nd round receivers non-“elite” or even non “top of the draft”? With the exception of last year, most years there aren’t that many receivers in the 1st round, because they’re supposed to take a few years to make a real impact. So a 2nd round receiver is a top of the draft receiver, and it’s a much greater difference from the Baldwin/Kearse model than it is from 1st round receivers.
Great point. And the only thing that separates a 1st rounder from a 2nd rounder or say a 3rd rounder from a 5th rounder is one teams (HC, GM, FO, etc.) value or,for lack of a better word,opinion of a prospect.
Honestly, I’m of a different mindset.
I see how incredible he is from the pocket, and I just think for a second what this offense would look like when he gets even a bit more protection.
Seattle is a run first line. I get that. I agree with that premise. But Seattle hasn’t selected linemen good at both, namely because we are dumpster diving for day 3 talents who are there because they can’t do both.
I still maintain, that the weapons we have now are satisfactory when we have sufficient time. But really, either solution (Better targets or better protection) aim to the same effect: Better plays from the pocket. Better weapons assumes more opportunties given the time we do provide. Better line assumes increasing more time to allow the weapons we have to work.
What I like about addressing the OL, is that it has the ancillary effect of possibly improving our rushing game in addition to the passing game. Better weapons on the outside don’t really do that.
Additionally, in regards to Erving — personally, I see him as exactly the kind of guy Cable would covet. In almost every way. Probably moreso than any OL prospect in this draft.
Obviously the case can be made to improve either. And as with each option, there are plenty of ways to argue minimizing their actual impact. Personally, I would go with the opinion that we should target both if possible. Clearly we’ve seen evidence of what a good OL means by virtue of how we played with Unger and without him. Wilson’s efficiency and production when throwing on time in the pocket is ridiculous. Better weapons means he has more opportunities to throw on his last step of his drop.
Either improvement helps achieve the same thing. I’d advise going with the best option at either position rather than pigeonholing ourselves to look at one and disregard the other.
On Okung. I agree, I expect us to keep him. But I also believe that Seattle needs to find a swing prospect to fill in for him. We can’t be in a “let’s rely on McQuistan for half a season” situation again. That is risking the franchise QB beyond acceptable measure. And it’s really necessary to hedge his health at this point.
Seattle’s OL depth has taken a hit with misses in the last 2 years. The pipeline is dry at this point. We need guys more capable of playing at a good level sometime during year 1. It’s possible we add some generic OL veteran bodies to plug depth holes. But that’s bad cap spend.
After spending our draft capital on WRs the last two years, it’s time we shore up other areas. Just as we spent our top picks on WRs the last two years, the OL has seen attrition and drought the last two years. If Carpenter leaves — I think the OL is a no brainer for our first pick. At that point we’ll be short bodies not unlike our situation in 2011.
Good stuff, but I have a couple issues…
1. We haven’t exactly been dumpster diving. 4/5 OL are 2nd rounders or better. Ironically, our most durable/consistent OL is Sweezy, who is the lone low rounder on the starting OL. I’m not saying that means never draft OL high.
2. The recent history of 1st round OL has actually been pretty awful. I’m not saying you said that OL is a safe pick, but this mindset (as a generality), has proven to be quite false, especially over the last few years. DL are simply too athletic. All the great athletes are on the DL, which means the OL who have the physical attributes to be top notch, are either going very early or are major projects (see Sweezy). Picking at 29 or later means that we will be over drafting an OL.
3. Higher Quality perimeter weapons will help the run game. If a defense has to account for a perimeter weapon, that means they can’t simply load the box. The more of the field that you can threaten, the significantly easier it is for an OL to perform.
I think you make some awesome points and by no means am I saying they aren’t valid/won’t work. I just think that, Seahawk fans, in general, have extraordinarily unrealistic expectations of the OL. Actually, I think most fan bases complain about OL for pretty obvious reasons.
1) It’s a thankless job. Show me a OL highlight on Sportscenter and I will show you the holy grail. Only negative plays are highlighted/remembered. Go to any Seahawks or NFL blog, and you will never see positive threads about OL, only negative. It’s just the nature of the position, especially in a sport as exciting as football.
2) Again, the quality of athlete is drastically different and quite frankly, defensive schemes can do whatever they want, while offensive blocking schemes only have minor variables.
3) While I agree RW is really good from the pocket, his mobility is both a blessing and a curse for the OL. There is so much designed and improvised movement, that it makes life on the OL so much tougher, knowing there is far more real estate to cover, when protecting RW.
All that said, I really like Erving. He’d be one of the few exceptions that I’d (personally) make in the back half of R1. Other than him, I’m really hard pressed to spending premium draft capital on a lesser talent (OL talent is always pushed higher), that would more than likely be a backup player for the foreseeable future. Now, you could say that about a lot of positions, considering how loaded SEA is, but, most positions, it’s actually beneficial to rotate players in and out. OL is definitely not one of those.
Great stuff Attyla. You really bring a lot of awesome stuff to the table. These convos are fun…even more fun when you have a great team!
Nice post MJ.
I’ll keep coming back to a couple of points in response Attyla — and thanks for taking the time to detail your opinion for this debate.
1. I maintain that Wilson is one of the hardest QB’s to block for in the NFL. If not the single hardest. It might not even be close. Peyton Manning, for example, will take a snap under center or in the gun and sit there and throw from the pocket 100% of the time. He has an incredibly quick release, he is a lightning fast decision maker. As a blocker all you have to do is judge the defense and act accordingly. An offensive tackle can see it’s an edge rush and take a really wide base, forcing a long arc and giving Manning the small amount of time he needs to complete a pass. The interior line can almost afford to bunch up (a bit like CAR did last week) and create a wall over the middle. The actual creation of a pocket for Manning is very simple. It’s no surprise Denver gave up only 17 sacks and are ranked #1 for pass pro by Football Outsiders. Now let’s look at Wilson. This is a QB who is encouraged to scramble and he does it often. As a blocker, you have no idea where he’s going to be. You could shape to block the edge thinking it’s a bootleg right. The left tackle could execute his job to perfection, forcing the DE wide and taking him out of the play. And Wilson might see something and dart right into the area you’ve put your guy. He moves around so much, creating a conventional pocket is almost impossible. This isn’t an excuse for a line that is vastly superior at run blocking than it is pass blocking. It’s a legitimate problem, and San Fran, Washington — they have experienced similar issues with scrambling QB’s. Seattle actually seeks an element of chaos.
2. Even with better protection up front in the form of greater talent up front, Wilson is still going to scramble around a ton. There will never be a situation — never — where they line up five guys and Wilson sits there in a clean pocket chucking dimes with endless time to throw. It’ll happen in games, but it’ll never be the plan. Seattle is creating this scrambling offense because Wilson is 5-10 and is at his best when the play breaks down. He isn’t going to stand tall and throw darts. And he is never going to be micro-managed in the way Kaepernick was under Harbaugh to turn him into something he’s not. Seattle is creating a perfect storm up front, one where their QB is flourishing. I would argue there are almost as many coverage sacks out there as there are sacks where a DL flat out beats an OL.
A lot of people rave about Dallas’ offensive line. They were ranked #1 in run blocking and #17 in pass protection. Seattle came in at #4 and #24 respectively (stats via Football Outsiders). There’s at least some comparable factors there. For all of Dallas’ investment up front, they’re still only middle of the road in pass pro. The difference between #17 and #24 might be Dez Bryant & Jason Witten rather than Zach Martin and Doug Free. Maybe not.
On the point you make that they’ve spent draft capital on WR’s the last two years and now it’s time to shore up other areas. Well — the first rounder in 2013 went on Percy Harvin who is no longer with the team. The 2014 pick went on Paul Richardson, who just suffered a second ACL tear on the same knee and by Pete Carroll’s own admission, there’s other complications than a mere tear. So both players, really, need to be replaced. As for the offensive line — they’ve spent a first round pick on Okung, a first round pick on Carpenter, a second round pick on Britt, a third round pick on Moffitt (no longer with the team) and they’ve re-signed Max Unger. So if we’re going to discuss where investment has been spent and concentrating on other areas — no unit has had more draft attention than the OL. And there’s a chance Okung, Carpenter, Unger and Britt will all be starting again next year, unlike Harvin and Richardson.
I’d be the first to concede a lot of these points.
It’s a thankless job and the only time you notice OL play is when it breaks down. I think all of us would at least concede that Seattle’s breaks down frequently. More often than a good OL should? Yeah I think that’s fair.
Do I think adding a rookie will improve that dramatically? Depends. While a rookie will have struggles and that won’t go completely away — the reality is this line is for the most part poorly equipped skill wise for pass protection. I do think adding better talent here will produce better results. Not perfect results. But better.
Wilson, by his nature, is always going to make it much harder to protect than a typical drop back passer. I’m not willing to ding the line for those cases. Not only do we agree on that, but I typically champion that liability when discussing our current OL. I don’t expect any draft pick to improve the ‘protection’ when Wilson scrambles.
In fact, I think this OL does remarkably well in that regard. When was the last time you saw a holding penalty on a Wilson scramble? Hardly ever. They don’t get grabby and are incredibly disciplined in that aspect. I don’t see Wilson’s scramble plays as plain evidence to indict the OL. Nor would I want to take that out of his game. And I’d be the first to agree, that Wilson’s scramble ability purposefully compromises the ability to effectively pass block precisely because of the inability to anticipate which way to block.
I do want to see him have more time, because when he does have good time, he’s shown to be ultra productive.
Really, it simply comes down to the current depth and outlook of this line in 2015/16. One thing that all of us can agree on, is when Okung or Unger are out, this line suffers drastically. They are some of the best talents we have on the line and not having them illustrates how valuable good players there are.
Carpenter in 2015 and Okung in 2016 are going to command bigger salaries. Okung will be affordable in 2015. But he won’t be playing for 7m in 2016. He will command more than that.
I agree, we spent heavily on WRs in 2013/14. And the results of those investments have turned bust. But that exact same argument was posited by you Rob, when discussing the merits of adding OL help due to the spend of an R1/R3 pick in 2011. Now I went on record then and would again now in stating that if you don’t address your needs, it shouldn’t preclude you from continuing to address it — so I don’t discount still picking WR early — the reality is, this line is in a bit of disrepair. Not only have we gone partially bust from 2011, but the depth picks for OL have bust in the last couple years as well.
Seattle is a great team. But clearly the OL and WR groups have been difficult for us to collect talent. Despite the use of early picks and project picks. I do think we should entertain either position group. But I’m more inclined to lean to the OL, specifically because of two reasons:
One, the investment on that position group is meager of late and our project players haven’t produced.
Two, Seattle looks to be retaining both Baldwin and Kearse. Having already invested in both Richardson and Norwood — we aren’t having much difficulty filling the 2nd through 5th receiver positions.
If we’re talking about adding the elusive/big WR then I’m all for that. If one presents itself that we can pull the trigger on then I’d view that enthusiastically. Last year kind of bummed me because I felt there were those prospects available for us and we didn’t regard them as sufficient. I think in retrospect, we can see that was not the case and we whiffed on that.
I don’t want to be in another case where we’re passing on a very good OL prospect like Bitonio and instead take a duplicate copy of WR that we basically already have. Richardson seemed like a reach and despite his improvement in play — I still felt like he underperformed based on the talent that was available even in his own position group.
If Seattle can get a prospect that fills a Dez Bryant role (bigger WR you can just throw it up and let him get it), or a quality TE to fill the Witten role who can work the 5-15 yard zone, I’d be thrilled. Whether that’s Maxx Williams or Jesse James, I would heartily approve. I don’t believe Seattle has that receiving option to move the chains on third and medium/long. And missing that component really hurts us because our conversion rates for that scenario are typically very very poor (Panthers game notwithstanding).
I don’t want to come off as being anti WR. That’s not the case. But I think Seattle dismissed OL need in last draft and I think we missed out on adding quality to the team. I don’t want to be in that situation this year.
Good stuff Attyla. Why though have the investments on our WRs taken in last year’s draft turned bust? A little too early to say that IMO. It usually takes most rookies 3 years to really start to come into their own.
I agree that the OL does need some help and depth. But if Seattle takes an O-lineman in say round 2 instead of round 1 is that really a worst case scenario? As good of a fit as Bitonio was for Seattle, would he have really contributed more than what Britt has? Didn’t Seattle want Jack Mewhort?
The WRs we could have had are Benjamin? Would have had to move up a couple picks to get him and I question his work ethic. Would have been eaten alive by the LOB. Moncrief seems like he need’s a high volume passing attack to succeed. Same with Martavis Bryant and maybe he wasn’t a fit locker room wise? Jarvis Landry while good, he is what he is. Latimer, white part of an incredibly deep WR group in Denver, didn’t even see the field in garbage time from what I remember.
One of the things I think makes RW what he is, is his propensity to spread the ball around like a point guard. And having more options and more targets for him to do that would seem like the best way to upgrade Seattle’s roster.
Totally understand your take on this.
Good debate — and thank you.
It’s a worthy debate. Apologies in advance for a post run amok. Thanks for indulging me.
I’ll address a few additional points:
“Why though have the investments on our WRs taken in last year’s draft turned bust? A little too early to say that IMO. It usually takes most rookies 3 years to really start to come into their own.”
Agreed. I was, and still am incredibly bullish on Norwood. I am excited to see him get his opportunity.
While I toss the term ‘gone bust’ around, I don’t necessarily mean it in the pejorative manner. I mean it simply in the production for cost manner. Injuries happen and those can’t be accounted for. Richardson wasn’t a bad pick because he got injured. Ultimately, Seattle spent a 2nd round pick and a fourth round pick and got extremely little in return for those picks.
However if I were to follow that point to it’s logical conclusion, then I’d have to ask, “Why are we then feeling the need to address WR at all?” If there is an expectation that Richardson and Norwood will get better in the next 3 years — then advocating for going WR in 2015 should be nearly absurd.
“The WRs we could have had are … ”
I can’t speculate whether the big WRs we didn’t take would or wouldn’t have been a fit for us. We obviously felt strongly that Richardson WOULD fit and I think that estimation has proven true.
But when Pete did mention it after the draft, he didn’t cite lack of fit. He specifically stated that finding guys with size and the necessary speed isn’t always possible. Matthews and Bryant certainly had the requisite speed. And their rookie campaigns certainly are evidence that was the case. Adams has similarly developed late as Richardson has and he’s definitely a more dynamic playmaker than Richardson has shown to be.
I have to assume that Pete was being honest when he said he didn’t feel like the measurables stood up with the bigger WRs we passed on. And I think it’s pretty evident that if that was truly the reason we passed on them, then we missed pretty mightily in our assessment of them.
I’m not prone to cry over spilled milk so to speak. We took who we took and that’s done. Hindsight makes fools of us all at some point. But I do think there is a measure of fool me once here — where we shouldn’t be doubling down on the same kind of player essentially three years running now (Harvin to Richardson to a 2015 smaller WR).
Despite all that, I guess I have to consider who we have on the roster to upgrade:
Our WRs are:
1. Baldwin
2. Richardson
3. Kearse
4. Norwood
5. Lockette
6. Walters
The last two being ST players. If we get a Smith, and he’s to produce as a 1st round pick should, then the difference between him and either Kearse or Richardson has to be significant yes? Kearse is an RFA and is still under club control. All of these players are under club control. The cost for the entire corps is pretty low.
Our OL is:
1. Okung
2. Unger
3. Sweezy
4. Britt
5. Bailey
Right now, that’s about all the talent we have. Carpenter is not under club control. I think there is a misconceived presumption that he will be here next year. Unless we extend him before the Super Bowl which would be stupid on his part, I don’t see any real expectation that we are going to resign him. He will be a UFA and probably will be one of the more expensive UFAs on the market at his position( more than 3m/yr). We’ll pay market value for him. And we can’t discount the fact we didn’t exercise his option, nor did we discuss extending him. And his career here hasn’t been the most warmly received. Not seeing much love lost if he should leave. Not seeing any compelling reason for him to want to stay here.
Everyone else we have is pretty much a street quality UFA. Gilliam, Lewis, Jean-Pierre.
Sweezy and Bailey are coming into their extension years. This group is very soon going to be an expensive part of the team. I have to assume we’re going to have churn here. That means having new starters in 2016 ready to go. If Bailey ends up having to move into the starting LG spot then pretty much we have 5 starters and a bunch of street agents.
For a team who stresses competition, we’ve done a very poor job with infusing real competition with this group. Okung and Unger have significant injury expectation based on their history. A day one ready OL pick would have more realistic impact with the OL as constituted because whomever that would be, would be expected to get significant playing time. This OL is paper thin. It’s a godsend that Britt and Sweezy have managed to last the entire year.
Ultimately, I think if we put names to it — the starkness of how thin this OL is likely to be come April stands out. In all honesty, I would see that group of five meriting two prospects in the first four rounds, including one that would need to be ready to play at least half a season in his rookie year. It’s not *ONLY* a measure of improving our starting OL. Because realistically speaking, that draft grade of OL prospect for Seattle should be graded relative to Gilliam and Lewis. Since we have to presume that the 6th and 7th OL on the depth chart will play significantly more than a 4th/5th receiver.
To take a WR, that player seems they would need to be a big upgrade or bring something we don’t have already. Something significantly better than Baldwin or Kearse.
It sure seems like more sacks are due to coverage issues (or WRs failing to separate and create space) than because a defender flat out beats an OL.
It also seems like that was more of a problem in the first half or three-quarters of the season. In the last 4 or 5 games, the passing game has improved because guys like Baldwin, Willson and PRich are starting to develop chemistry with RW. Sure Baldwin already had that going, but he seems to have elevated his ability to sense when a play has broken and RW is scrambling to avoid a sack. Norwood flashed a couple of times in that same way during this stretch, so best wishes to him on stepping up now and capitalizing on the opportunity.
Count me among those who think that the OL is well-suited to offensive scheme and QB. Do I miss Breno? Yeah, a little. But I’m more excited to see if Britt can add an element of pass blocking and overall consistency to go along with his solid run block skills. I’m excited to watch him continue developing chemistry with Sweezy and see if they can truly dominate as a zbs T/G combo.
To me, Okung remains a top tier LT, and at age 27 still well in his prime athletic years. Injuries happen to the best of players, but this guy is tough as nails and he’s continued to play through some nasty ones down the stretch this season. Give him an offseason to recoup and return 100%, and there isn’t anyone else I’d want at that position. SEA is fortunate to have him.
Depth is a concern, particularly at C. That makes Erving somewhat of a unique prospect. It would be difficult to pass up that kind of talent and versatility if he were available.
To me, WR and RB are bigger needs. Particularly WR. I’m warming to Smith as the first pick because the more I watch him, the more I see OBJ in his game. That same feisty, gritty, won’t-be-beat attitude. Almost like he’s a (LOB) DB aggressively going for the interception instead of a WR trying to catch a pass.
Of course, it all starts with the run for SEA, so if there’s a shot at (a healthy) Gurley, that’s my vote.
@Rob, regarding what you say here:
“2. Even with better protection up front in the form of greater talent up front, Wilson is still going to scramble around a ton. There will never be a situation — never — where they line up five guys and Wilson sits there in a clean pocket chucking dimes with endless time to throw. It’ll happen in games, but it’ll never be the plan. Seattle is creating this scrambling offense because Wilson is 5-10 and is at his best when the play breaks down. He isn’t going to stand tall and throw darts.”
But how do you reconcile that with the fact that based on last year’s data only 14.5% of his pass plays came on designed rollouts/bootlegs and 13.5% came on scrambles? That leaves roughly 73% of his dropbacks as the standard type where the plan was that he was expected to sit in the pocket and “chuck dimes”.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/20/qbs-in-focus-tendencies/
As much as the offense has incorporated his mobility into their game plan, he still operated as a standard pocket passer on a significant majority of his passing attempts. It doesn’t appear to me to be anywhere near as common and “never part of the plan” as you seem to think of it as. What am I missing from your vision of how you think they operate?
I think they’d need to define what is a ‘standard’. I’d hazard a guess that among that 73% there was still an element of movement on Wilson’s behalf.
PFF defines it as follows:
Standard Drop: Pass starts, and remains, in a traditional pocket
Scramble: Pass can start either as a standard drop or a rollout, but the QB is either forced to move left or right due to pressure, perceived pressure, or his own volition.
Rollout (boot): Pass is designed to roll the quarterback and the pocket. This is a play that is called in the huddle, not movement that is caused by the defense or the quarterback’s decision making.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/04/qbs-in-focus-drop-back-rollout-scramble/
It would appear that based on the percentages the plan would be to have him pass from the pocket almost 3/4 of the time.
I’m not going to dispute PFF’s stats without doing my own research, but even with that high percentage I’m having a hard time accepting the vision of Wilson as this orthodox pocket passer 75% of the time who just drops, sets and throws conventionally. Even when he’s not scrambling like a mad man or rolling out, he seems to be the most active QB in the pocket probably in the entire NFL.
I understand what you’re saying about him being active in the pocket. But Drew Brees is really active in the pocket too shuffling back and forth the longer the play draws out in order to see around his line’s heads to get a pass off. It just seems to me that the first preference of the coaching staff would be for him to make plays from the pocket and to scramble as a 2nd option. They don’t discourage his scrambling because it’s a great weapon in getting the defense on its heels. But scrambling is only part of the plan if the play breaks down, except on bootlegs which happen only on 13.5% of his dropbacks.
I believe the issues when criticizing Seattle online isn’t in the sacks given up it is in the shear wiffs we see from okung, carpenter, sweezy, Britt, and unger every game. I point out last week vs Carolina when carpenter failed several times to identify the end/tackle stunts and left free pass rushers. I’m not even advocating the round one pick of an olineman I’m just narrowing the focus of the conversation from “bad players” to poor play game after game. I agree with you Rob that it would be difficult to block for Wilson but it isn’t so bad you fall to the ground and don’t touch anyone. Last week vs Carolina TE Willson blocked the de inside with Britt to help out leaving the outside line backers to come off the edge free. Now some may be by design but not all. I think the quality may be fine but the execution leave plenty to be desired. This line also struggles with injury and I believe a lot of time that is also because of the poor techniques we see week after week.
That quote about our Wr’s and TE’s is pretty great! Mostly in a sarcastic guy and Seattle loves the try hard but honestly “ordinary as ordinary can be,” nails it. I love Baldwins game and I hate the semantics and hyperbole about how he’d be some teams fourth…barely. I think he’d be great on myriad systems but past him…ordinary.
I watched a ton of clips on Preston smith after that mock then I watched a ton on Owa…and I have to say if one of them is making it to the first its got to be Owa. I think Preston can be good but he just lacks a certain suddenness in his motions that Carrol covets. I know suddenness isn’t a skill and maybe its reflective of a high sparq score, but every starting defensive player has it on the hawks. Preston smith to me looks like one of those high motor guys you fill out a roster with but as a hopeful impact player in the first…i don’t see it.
I have been waiting years for a true elite WR. Having someone like Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall would also make our other wr better.
I am one that wants to see the defense stay elite and invest in top tier tackles and ends, but another WR that may fit the bill would be just as good for a first round pick. This draft will be a blast
I’m all about the elite d! Honestly if they he 11 picks I truly want 4 on the line between tackles and ends plus about 1.5 on the dbs….that said I think 3-4 picks/udfas between wr and Te and a true competition for all the roster spots bot licked up could do this team wonders…even that excessive scenario would still allow an Oline here..a lb there…etc. Because here’s how it all plays out…lynch leaves this year or next year and we all realize the inevitable that lynch was the beat RB, no offense SA, ever and we never truly replicate that success at that position but we’ve fortunately planned well and carved a new offensive identity with Wilson and effective weapons that is a hybrid west coast with explosive plays, obviously this is future casting but how I see it!
Bob McGinn – what a splendid mostly right on preview.
I agree although I Lol’d at his assesment of Luke Willson… “He has 4.54 speed and *excellent* hands” haha
Of starting tight ends that have played 25% of their offensive snaps he had the second worst set of hands, his 18.52 drop rate ranks second highest. He finished just behind the tight end with the highest drop rate in the league during the regular season … Vernon Davis who had a rate of 18.75.
Not exactly earth shattering stuff regarding SEA WR and TE’s. Can’t be elite everywhere. It makes sense that we are spending a lot of time looking for talent in that area for this upcoming draft.
I think the ideal is to be elite everywhere even though in practice it doesn’t always work out that way.
Maybe some teams will think it’s a downside that Shaq Thompson doesn’t have a well defined position, but I think the more creative types will drool over the fact that he’s so athletic that he can actually be in the discussion to play multiple spots.
I’ve watched him pretty closely all three years and UW and I always walk away really impressive with him. I think his occasional lack of production or “not realizing his true potential” is a lot to do with what UW was asking him to do. They wanted him to do everything, which made it difficult for him to excel at one specific area.
In my opinion though I don’t think RB is his ideal position in the NFL. I definitely enjoyed watching him back there this year and his production was very good, but I didn’t see a special runner in the backfield. He was bigger and stronger and faster than a lot of guys and it allowed him to get really good production at the college level, but what I didn’t see was a guy making a cut and exploding through a gap, or a guy that break tackles and consistently fight for more yards after getting hit. He’s definitely not a scat pack whose going to make guys miss in the 2nd level either.
I think his talents are best suited for defense. Whether that is OLB or SS I’m not sure, but I think he could do well in either. He would just need to adjust his body to be able to fit the needs of each of those positions which I definitely think he could do. I would absolutely draft him with the #32 pick even considering there aren’t a lot of open spots on our defense. I think he’s too good of a talent to pass up on at that spot in the draft.
Agreed! I have a difficult time figuring out where he would fit in but he fits the mold of fast and athletic. Two traits that PC loves on defense. The hybrid SS/LB with ball skills is the answer to the new pass first offence that the league has morphed into. Maybe not the biggest need but he would add speed to an already fast defense.
Phillips would be a dream for me at this point. No way do I see him lasting long enough. His size and speed is ideal for are system and perfect for Pete to put in the right situation. I’m not sure theirs a better defenceman in this draft for the hawks then him. DT is a need and we don’t have a player like him. He would be are #1 tall receiver on defense,
I’m having a hard time buying Winston as a high first rounder. He regressed a lot this year, showed a lot of immaturity, and there’s really compelling evidence that he raped someone last year. I think he’s going to take a serious plunge.
Based on what I’ve read on it all, which has been a lot lately, there are a lot of scout and FO types that think you’re wrong and find him the superior pick to Mariota, think the rape charges are bogus because he’s been cleared by a judge who was acting as arbiter, and has a game ideally suited to the pros. His interception leap was problematic, but not something that can’t be sorted out much more easily than the growing pains Mariota will go through to learn the pro game.
Given how talented he is in reading defenses and delivering accurate throws, he seems to be light years ahead of Mariota in this regard too as Mariota is prone to bouts of inaccuracy and poor ball placement. There seems to be a forming national consensus that Winston is the far surer thing and that it will be hard for someone early not to take him.
I don’t think that consensus has emerged at all, arias. And ultimately, we’re all going to need to be patient while the teams do their homework on Winston and one particular incident in particular. We’ll not know where he’s going to land for some time yet.
Yeah I didn’t state that right. The consensus emerging I’ve seen is that Winston is the far more pro ready QB with a higher ceiling, not “far surer thing” since that’s just too loaded a term with too much that we don’t know at this point in time.
I don’t have a horse in race either way but mariota didn’t help himself in the championship game and recency bias makes people start to question his mechanics, throws under center, etc. The success rate is about one in four for all qb’s taken in the first three rounds…success being defined as pro bowl appearances…if you count superbowl wins its one in six.
Where I’m going with this is realistically I don’t think either one are a better choice. I honestly believe that mariota if he could wait for one season and work under center could be good and this newish “Winston played under center and isn’t fazed under stress,” is fine except he’s got a slow release and a boatload of picks….oh and exoneration aside he still has obvious maturity issues that he could grow out. It will never happen with careers on the line and the need for new regimes to put on a show but if it were me neither would get drafted until significantly later then they will.
Two weeks prior, Winston did not look all that good against the Oregon defense. So, I am not sure if recency bias is a factor.
I just mean on national radio shows…this week a ton of talking hairdos come out of the woodwork and start saying phrases like “pro system,” the same system that brought you ponder and Manuel.. I agree he looked horrible against Oregon and not very good against a ton of teams this year. I like narratives where you get lauded for comebacks that seem to forget that you may have been a reason for your team being behind in the first place. Sort of like luck’s pass attempts and Td’s existing in a vacuum against his turnovers which btw are something in the wheelhouse of 1.3 per 2 td’s
You could be right. Still, I wonder if we are seeing a similar bias that we see regarding Russell Wilson. Russell is not a prototypical pocket passer. So, a lot of analysts continually downgraded him even though all the Seahawks have done with him at QB is win.
There still is a bias about wanting a prototypical QB and Winston is a prototypical QB. So, I believe when you hear far more pro ready QB, you really are getting from scouts that he is a pocket passer.
And its was to see winston’s frame etc. And say “that’s what a QB looks like.” the scouts that didn’t watch Schneider’s beloved badgers were the dopes that year. Wilson was a deadly accurate pocket passer behind a classic big ten oline that’s all their bad and forever our win with that pick! Also mariota gets downgraded I personally think because of rg3, kaepernick, and how the spread qbs frankly haven’t done all that great recently.
I don’t think there’s much similarity as to why Mariota’s being downgraded to Wilson. Wilson ran a pro style offense with the Badgers and it all came down to his height or else would have been a top 3 pick. He had just about the most statiscally out of this world college career that you could pretty much hope for and all the intangibles.
Mariota coming out of the spread doesn’t do him any favors. He’s going to have to learn to throw in tight windows as a pro because he didn’t have to do much of that in his offense. He would also be wildly inaccurate sometimes just throwing in open space or trying to throw a receiver open. He’s got to learn to get more consistent in that regard. Winston demonstrated an ability to diagnose defenses and throw in tight windows throughout his career. His football IQ is really off the charts for a college kid. He’s just got to temper the temptation he has to throw riskier throws that might lead to picks, but he doesn’t have near as much ground to cover than Mariota in a leap to the pros.
I didn’t mean when Wilson was drafted. I meant the last few years in Seattle. We have heard the last several years the Jeffry Chadiha’s, the Ron Jaworski’s, etc., for three plus years minimize what Wilson has done because he is not exclusively a pocket passer. There has been a bias even though he was won a SuperBowl. Just think what the bias is against Mariota who is still an amateur.
As Rob as written, a team would be smart to do what Pete and Bevell have done, build and offense that accentuates what Russell Wilson does well. Do the same for Mariota and a team will win a hell of a lot of games.
Oh absolutely. But Chadiha is such a Seahawk hating neophyte that I wouldn’t expect anything less from that troll … who in his latest article is now resorting to waxing his two faced ass on Seattle’s defensive greatness while speculating backhandedly on when it will all end when according to his NFC GM source this year’s D isn’t as good as last years. And Jaworski was beat out by Randall Cunningham for the starting job eventually in Philly so obviously has a strong personal bias to overcome with mobile quarterbacks.
But I understand your general sentiment because he’s such an unconventional QB to have won the superbowl he doesn’t check all the statistical passing stat boxes for QB greatness because he creates his own box, so I hear some pundits just casually referring to pocket passing as ‘not his game’ as if he’s not a capable and improving passer from the pocket.
But the critique I’m seeing of Mariota is that because he’s coming from a QB friendly spread his numbers might be more inflated than if he were coming out of a pro style offense because he’s mostly throwing to open receivers while throwing a lot of screens and smoke routes. So scouts seem to worry that he could be a ‘system quarterback’ since he doesn’t have to consistently throw in tight windows to succeed so will avoid doing so while in the pros he will HAVE to learn to throw in tight windows to survive. This is why Mariota poses more risks (on the field), because unlike Winston he hasn’t been in a system where he’s demonstrated the ability to do this so he’s more of a projection for scouts as to whether he’ll be able to handle it. To his credit, he does prefer to operate in the pocket and works well going through his progressions, but he’ll have to re-learn to recognize what he thinks is an ‘open receiver’ because in his system he’ll pass up the opportunity to throw to an ‘open receiver’ by NFL standards and move onto his next read. It’s great that he prefers less risky throws but the aversion to throwing in tight windows also contributes to his low interception total and that’s another thing to keep in mind. Some QBs are never able to take this step because they’re too hesitant to pull the trigger on a tight throw. This is the biggest criticism about Mariota’s game that I’ve seen, not that he’s a ‘running quarterback’ or anything like that.
Both will be top five picks. Most likely 1&2. It’s a quarterback league. Look at the four teams still in the race, all with “franchise” QB’s. Either they are drafted as it stands now or someone moves up.
With Miller coming back next year, and Willson going back to TE#2 for another year of development, do you really think we need a TE? IMO By the end of next year Willson should be seasoned enough to take over. An early round TE wouldn’t even see the field next year, unless we’re runing 3 TE sets.
McCoy was given a one year deal over $1M and once again got hurt in training camp. I don’t expect him back. Moeaki is also a free agent. I think they will fill the hole for a third TE in free agency. Schneider never goes into the draft with a glaring position of need. Virgil Green, Denver’s backup TE looks like a good fit. He is an excellent blocker that rarely gets targeted but catches most everything when he is. At age 26, he may see Denver as a rebuilding project. Denver cannot afford to keep both Julius Thomas and Green. Play Miller, Green and Willson with a drafted TE on the PS. E J Bibbs might be a good choice in the later rounds. Next year we can replace Miller.
Jordan Cameron is another possibility. He would be more expensive and is a move TE. He caught 80 balls in 2013 but had a disappointing 2014.
I looked at V Green TE too as a possible signing, but I think someone might overpay him. They’ll pick up a TE in the draft is my guess. Cameron seems to have concussions, so I’d stay away from him.
I would love for us to have a taller WR – a playmaker – but we’re going to have to draft someone to do this or find someone who’s in the twilight of his career. Of course, Larry Fitz would be great – and he could add a lot still.
Unless Fitz signs on – I think we look at WRs in the draft. I still like Waller in the mid rounds – but want to see what he runs – if it is in the mid to high 4.5s he could fit in nicely.
I agree with CC. The dearth of talent at the TE position is well known, but there’s still some good developmental guys to take later on. And if we’re looking for a no. 3 type of TE it seems ideal to me to pick one in the draft and let PC and staff get their hands on a high potential pick.
When training camp starts there will be at least five TE’s in line for three active roster spots. McCoy and Moeaki will probably not be among them. With only Miller, Willson and Helfet signed for next year, they have to sign a veteran unless you think Helfet is good enough to play in this league. I expect to see Helfet competing with a rookie for a job. If Miller retires, we are in the market for a top TE in free agency such as Julius Thomas.
Why do they HAVE to sing a veteran? They don’t have to do anything. I think a rookie will beat out Helfet. Helfet is a classic, old-school H-back. He brings value to STs as well. You can carry 4 TEs. Look at all the injuries there this year. And that’s not only us. An extremely physical position.
Agree, if Miller is gone then a TE becomes a high priority. But I don’t think he will be. He restructured his deal for a reason, and PC always speaks highly of Miler. He knows there’s value in him.
Julius Thomas may be a bit pricey for their tastes. I see them bringing in some FA, and there is several to bring in for a look.
I can see Moeaki and MCcoy back for training and see how they do.
No way can they afford Julius Thomas if they want to re-up Wagner and keep money stashed for Irvin if he continues his upward trajectory.
I am hoping they take a look a VIrgil Green. He looks like a player who could have a breakout season after being a back up blocking TE. I must say, I would not be to excited if we picked up Smith. In this mock there would have been a lot of talent left on the table. Jordan Philips would add a exciting dimension. And I can’t help but think what an athlete like Shaq T would do on this defense. Not a position of need but talk about making a fast defense even faster.
I think much will depend on whether Miller returns.
Why wouldn’t he return? You think he’d retire?
He’s the best TE we have by far, so there’s no way we let him go. Unless the injury is that bad, which I don’t think it was career ending. 4M is cheap for a guy like Miller. He had more snaps last year than anyone on offense.
Miller is chronically injured and getting older. He also costs $4mm in 2015 (of which $1mm is dead).
Willson is the only consistently active TE on the roster.
SEA needs a TE as much as any other position. Plus, I’d argue that the right TE solves a bit of 2 needs – blocking and another target for RW.
Perhaps this is wishful thinking but I think Miller and Lynch both play out their contracts for the chance at the very rare THREEPEAT! So hard to imagine the Hawks without those 2.
I can see Lynch playing one more year for a shot at the three peat and another play check but if Seattles looking to go younger, cheaper, faster… Millers time may be over.
Call me crazy, but I’m intrigued to see what Devin Gardner can do at the WR position. Awful, awful QB so it make sense he’s making the switch. Is he another Matt Jones? Or could he be a bigger version of Julian Edelman? Obviously not worth a high pick, but interesting.
Very intriguing player. Like his approach too.
Rob, what is your opinion on South Carolina’s OG AJ Cann and Florida St’s Josie Matias?
Both big dudes. Matias has the same kind of length and bulk as Carpenter — definitely some cross over there. Would like to see him dominate with power more. Lot of potential though. Cann is very accomplished. Maybe a bit overrated by some. I think solid R2-3 type, others think round one. Could start quickly. Leaner than Matias. Don’t love him enough to take him earlier than maybe early third. Think he goes earlier.
Thanks. Yeah I asked about Mathias strictly due to rhea fact that he has the same type of body as Carpenter. As for Cann, been hearing early round buzz on him all year long it seems. Can doesn’t have great size, I know, but I could live with him as Seattle’s late 2nd rounder this year.
Thanks. Yeah I asked about Mathias strictly due to rhea fact that he has the same type of body as Carpenter. As for Cann, been hearing early round buzz on him all year long it seems. Cann doesn’t have great size, I know, but I could live with him as Seattle’s late 2nd rounder this year.
Gardner is a heck of an athlete – if he could go to a team to get a bit more experience, he could end up being a solid player.
Should say Josue.
‘Anybody out there?’
Is there a big WR that fits Seattle’s scheme this year? I’m not so sure and it’s starting to appear doubtful. At least early on it does. Now, they absolutely need that big wideout and I agree with dude at the top of this post who said ‘I feel like we’ll take 2 pass catchers in the first 4 rounds again.’ Whether he meant a WR and TE, I don’t know, Wouldn’t surprise me if it was 3 pass catchers this year.
Seattle has needed that ever elusive bigger WR for probably 2 seasons now (a healthy Sidney Rice could have negated this debate) and still do. While there’s some decent mid round options, there doesn’t seem to be ALOT of depth for that type of WR. Here’s my point.
The discussion we’re having about that type of WR, is it the same discussion that happens inside of Seattle’s war room the past couple years (including this year)? Maybe that’s why Seattle has somewhat neglected that type of receiver? Just not a great fit, scheme or locker room wise? Does Seattle really like the smaller more dynamic WRs to try and combat the trend they started at the DB position (more sudden and explosive)? Do the smaller WRs play with more grit and a chip on their shoulder having been told their too small almost their whole life?
Next year’s class of WRs, while it lacks the elite or top end talent of this year’s 1st rounder’s, does possess a little more depth in terms of what we’ve all been looking for. I’ve mentioned some of these names before in Tennessee’s WR Marquez North, Ole Miss WR Laquan Treadwell, Arizona’s WR Cayleb Jones, Miss St WR De’Runnya ‘Bear’ Wilson, Stanford WR Devon Cajuste, and those are just a few names that come to mind.
I almost expect/anticipate in this year’s draft that Seattle takes that smaller or ‘average’ sized WR with their first pick, a TE somewhere between the 2nd-4th, and the bigger developmental, but with high upside type WR in the 4th round.
Honestly, is this team really not going to be a contender next year if they don’t have a big no.4 or no. 5 WR? We all want one, we know Seattle needs one, but is there that WR this year who is finally ‘the one?’
In his press conference this week (my paraphrase) Pete Carroll said that especially at the wide receiver position, they don’t look for a specific body type. They look for competitive players with special qualities and mold their scheme to fit those abilities. If the best player available relative to the talent on their team is a taller player who can win jump balls and dominate the red line, they will likely take him. If the best player available relative to their board is a smaller receiver who is lightning fast, they will take him and adjust the gameplay to put him in positions to succeed. They are all about competition and maximizing every spot on the roster, with competitive players with special traits.
Great point Jeremy! Pete Carroll gets it. Play to the strengths of your talent to put them in a position to succeed. We’d all love a 6’5″ jump ball artist who can run a 4.4, but so does every team. It’s about getting players who can make plays.
I get that. That was kind of my point. There doesn’t really seem to be a bigger WR with those ‘special’ or ‘unique’ qualities.
My favorite WR right now is still Baylor’s Antwan Goodley. He’s unique, explosive, gritty, competitive, can help out in the return game. Special athlete with the production. Has a great head on his shoulders and seems like he could and would grow/really get along with RW.
In round 1 Devin Smith and Sammie Coates are both big play top notch atheletes, who would both bring expolsiveness to the table.
3-4 round i’m liking Lockett and Lippett. Lippett at a rangy 6’3″ runs some polished routes, has good, not great hands, has some shiftiness to get off the line, can high point the ball fairly well and displays the entire route tree. What I like best about Lippett is after he catches the ball he can make the first defender miss, and gets even foot he can. I’ve talked about Lockett before. Imagine his already great route running ability after spending time working out with Baldwin and Russell. Lockett would definitely help our team bolstering the WR core, and solve the kick/punt return games.
5+ rounds I haven’t done as much research, but Devante Davis stands out as a late rounder with big time upside.
I’m very much looking forward to the combine!
Really like WR Devin Smith and WR Sammie Coates as well. I’m just not sure if Devin Smith will still be available. And while Coates is a fantastic athlete, he’s so inconsistent and doesn’t seem very gritty.
Lippett strikes me as just a ‘guy.’ I actually like him better as a CB. WR Lockette is ‘meh.’ Seems like that typical productive college WR who we see every year, but doesn’t hold up to the physicality of the NFL.
Miami’s Dorsett is growing on me the more I watch.
Very exciting, that’s for sure. As for the ‘diva’ stuff we debated a few days ago, that may have been WR Stacy Coley.
I may have been wrong about Dorsett. That’s alright, I’ll eat some crow. I would love for Godley or Dorsett to be Seattle’s first pick/first receiver taken. These 2 guys just seem like Seattle WRs. Or as we like to say ‘Seahawky.’
I had the same thought a few weeks ago. Seems like a cheaper version of Brandin Cooks.
I like both those WR and i too think they will be gone top 25 and out of range.
You can bet on history no trading up.
12- Fair assessment of Coates. He lacks natural hands, but whoa that athleticism! Lippett’s upside may be at CB. He’s built like Sherman and looks to be a good enough athlete to play either CB or WR. I think he’s a solid 3rd round pick for whichever position he’s drafted for. imo We disagree on Lockett I think he’s got the grit and versatility to carve out a productive spot on the Hawks. No worries. Dorsett has speed to burn, but the character red flags scare me a bit. Godley is a tough WR who i like too, but he just doesn’t “wow” me as much as Lippett or Lockett.
As for Goodley not being a ‘wow’ guy compared to say WR Tony Lippett. Goodley is a truly unique sized WR at 5’10, 225 lb., has been clocked at 4.3, but more than likely runs a 4.44 squats 670 lbs., has a 39′ in. vert, and will reportedly put up 20-25 reps on the bench press. His production last year was crazy at 71 rec, 1,339 yes., 13 TDs. This year was a down year for him, due to being bothered by a quad injury. He led all WRs in college last year with 4 catches of 60+ yards averaged nearly 20 yds. Per catch. Describes himself as ‘a dog out on the field.’ I don’t mean to drop all these measurable and stats on you, but I’m a big backer of him.
As for Dorsett, what are the red flags? I’m not aware of those.
I like Davis too – needs to work on route running but don’t they all. Just mentioned below Chris Conley from UGA – 6’3″ 205 had some nice catches with Murray as QB last year. Not sure about his speed, but he has a nice catching range.
Georgia WR Chris Conley is impressive. I was checking him out earlier this year, and stumbled upon him making a low budget ‘Star Wars’ movie. Now it may just be a hobbies of his, but it kind of struck me as his true passion (film making). If his passion checks out as football, then yeah he’s intriguing.
I still believe seattle is trying to develop Mathews and McNeil.
Who’s McNeil?
They very well may be trying to develop WR Matthews, but if you go into next season banking on him and he doesn’t pan out, that will not bode well for Seattle at all. WR Matthews is a really good STs player and could be the reason he’s sticking around.
little bit off topic, but….I heard a stat the other day that d murray has gained over 1000 yards before contact this season. does anyone know where to find such stats? anyone know what lynchs line on this is? that just seems like a lot.
Rob, sorry to pester ya man. I’ve been payomg ALOT of attention to NC St OL Rob Crisp (on your recommendation) and while I really like him, is he strictly a tackle? Not that’s a negative by any means, but does he offer versatility?
Based on what I’ve seen, I think he’s strictly a tackle.
Rob – somehow I got sucked in to watching some of these sr bowls and a WR who had some length and some speed is Chris Conley from Georgia. From all accounts a great kid who competes – 6’3″ 205. He looks like a bit of a mid-late round sleeper – had a great one handed catch last year against TENN – may not be a bit name, but I’ll want to see how he does at the combine or pro day.
Thanks for the heads up on this guy.
Rob, what are your impressions of Arizona WR Austin Hill?
If you haven’t checked him out, Kentucky DE-LEO Za’Darius Smith is an intriguing mid round type guy who may be moving up some boards. You may have gotten a good look at him while watching Alvin ‘Bud’ Dupree.
A couple of years ago I thought Hill had first round potential. But he just isn’t the same player post-injury. 2014 was a very average season and he just didn’t look anywhere near as effective.
It’s just the start…but awfully hard to see how this team avoids drafting WRs and OL with a good chunk of their premium picks. Just gross on offense. RW has ZERO help.
Yep. WR/OL need is HUGE right now.
Unless they create an even bigger RB need for themselves.
Yep. It’s as clear as day. When RW actually gets time, nobody can get open. Doug Baldwin is our #1 receiving threat. Just think about that. Who is our #2 threat? Kearse, Willson? That’s beyond awful and has to change.
You take away RW and Lynch…I’d comfortably say we easily have 1 of the 3 worst offensive units in the NFL.
So, is there any doubt we need to improve the WR corp on this team. Good God they threw this thing away. Such a waste.
so I post this with 2: and change left. I’m an idiot. Go hawks.
but still, receivers have not helped today.
Are you freak’n kidding me!
That just happened. Talk about making up for the mistakes.
Super Bowl Bound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wr & OL biggest needs – multiple picks for both spots!