Change is probably needed but it isn’t coming

The expression on Pete Carroll’s face here speaks volumes

It feels like we’re witnessing the dying embers of a great era. The final few weeks of an exciting, legendary run that needs to come to an end for everyone’s sakes.

Except, at the same time, we aren’t.

The Seahawks under Pete Carroll have lost their way.

Their identity is shot. They want to play ‘complete circle’ football and yet they’ve stumbled into a one-man-quarterback-band.

The attitude is long gone. The Seahawks don’t play with a chip on their shoulder any more. Neither do they play with a physical edge to strike fear into opponents.

For the last three years they’ve tried to rebuild the team and frankly they’ve done a bad job. The roster construction has left them with a historically poor defense. They’ve squandered money and high picks, compromising their ability to make further improvements in the coming years.

The coaching staff isn’t inspiring any confidence. Carroll’s speciality is supposed to be defense but look at the results. Most of the young players aren’t being developed. The ideas and game planning leaves a lot to be desired. While other staff’s do less with more — the Seahawks are left surprised when opponents throw a lot against their league-worst passing defense.

On Sunday the players were flat and looked demoralised. Even Carroll’s body language told a story. He looked like a man struggling to comprehend what he was seeing — with no obvious solutions to fix the problems.

The game itself was a joyless experience. Suddenly the offense looks as broken as the defense. For those that are quick to say yesterday isn’t an example of the offense being impacted by the poor play of the defense — remember that they gave up 17 points and about 240 yards in the opening three drives. Right from the off the Seahawks were chasing the game. Sure, things tightened in the second half. Yet the offense is having to play with a mentality of keeping up at best and overcompensating at worst.

That’s not to absolve the offense of criticism. They need to be better. Russell Wilson cannot make the ridiculous, indefensible mistakes he is making. Nobody should wash away the turnovers and staggering errors he is forcing.

Yet it’s a further example of how everything is infected now. A different kind of circle is being created — with only special teams, so far, resisting the urge to join in. Clearly the ‘hope Wilson can cure a thousand ills’ approach was unsustainable. Thus, the walls are crumbling around the 2020 season.

No longer can the team clutch to a NFC West lead like a comfort blanket. Now they’re third in the division, clinging on to the seventh seed in the NFC.

They face a win-or-bust game against the Cardinals. Lose that one and their playoff hopes could begin to evaporate — even with the weakest schedule in the NFL.

Cast an eye towards the rest of the division. Kliff Kingsbury, Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan have picked up teams who, initially, were among the worst one or two in the sport.

McVay and Shanahan have built Super Bowl teams since, despite only being able to call upon Jared Goff and Jimmy Garoppolo at quarterback. Kingsbury has turned the Cardinals from the team picking first overall to a NFC West contender in a season and a half.

Meanwhile the Seahawks flounder — stuck in an annual rut of being unable to win the division despite their clear quarterback advantage. They’ve won the NFC West once in five years and that run increasingly looks like it will extend to six.

That’s not good enough.

They are also 1-5 in their last six games against the Rams (and a missed field goal from 0-6) and 1-5 in their last six NFC West games.

All good things come to an end and sadly, it’s starting to look a lot like the Carroll era should come to an end. New blood, new ideas and a fresh start is attractive.

It was a wonderful run but as with anything, it can’t go on forever. The Bill Belichick’s and Mike Tomlin’s are the exception not the rule.

The inevitable response, especially from some sections of the media, will be to point to Carroll’s record and familiarity and question the sanity of anyone making such claims. A lot of people don’t want to consider this topic. It’s a step too far. Practically a form of blasphemy. Carroll is immensely popular and likeable and rightly so. The Seahawks without him? Unthinkable.

Yet former glories aren’t enough to justify continuing into the future.

Fear of change can’t compromise decision making. Moving on would be a risk, sure. Teams do it all the time though. The challenge is to get the replacement appointment right to make it the correct call — not avoid making the decision due to anxiety that the grass might not be greener on the other side.

A 6-3 record also shouldn’t hide the truth. Russell Wilson is sufficiently good enough to maintain a base level of wins every year. You could argue he’s good enough to secure a playoff spot most if not all years. You are not doing a good job by achieving the bare minimum with this quarterback.

All teams endure rough patches. The Seahawks are 1-3 in the first real test on their schedule. The thing is, everything that is unfolding has been predictable. The off-season fears are coming true. The problems experienced today are not solely down to game-planning mistakes, bad interceptions or a decision not to go for it on fourth and inches at midfield.

This is about the construction of the roster from 2018 onwards. This is the way they’ve used their picks and cap space. The players they’ve chosen to retain at great cost and the players they’ve moved on. The inability to address stated priorities. The trades they’ve made. The way certain players have failed to be developed. The inability to make the most of having the best quarterback in the division. The coaches they’ve appointed. The failure to install a vision and philosophy correctly. The way they’ve struggled to capture a physical edge despite craving it so much. The dejected, sad looking body language the players are starting to show. The continued focus on competition and competing — yet with protected individuals who, when they underachieve — are allowed to continue without consequence.

As Colin Cowherd noted today — without Wilson, are the Seahawks even capable of winning a game?

It’s starting to feel like it’s time. The current regime, which includes John Schneider, doesn’t seem capable of solving the riddles of roster construction and the current staff don’t seem capable of elevating what they’re left with.

Yet the reality is nothing is going to change.

Jody Allen isn’t firing Pete Carroll. She’s just given him a five-year extension. The Seahawks are in an ownership holding pattern and no major changes to the football infrastructure will occur until a buyer is found. Per reports, that could take at least three years.

So for at least the next three years, and it could easily be more, nothing is going to change.

That’s the most serious problem for this franchise. There’s no true leadership from the very top. Power and control appears to be ceded or passed on to Carroll and Schneider — the football people. There doesn’t appear to be any accountability.

That’s not a good place to be. Especially when things are not going right and you’re just carrying on until someone else takes over to make the big call you needed to make years earlier.

Previously I thought continuity during this period was necessary. Now my perspective has changed. The Seahawks can’t move on from Carroll but increasingly it looks like they need to. It’s becoming a marriage of ownership convenience rather the right thing for the product on the field.

It’s starting to feel like we’re all going to have to just get through this when really, we should be invigorated by the best years of Russell Wilson and should be dreaming of Championship opportunities.

So what’s the answer?

We can all debate the short term merits of firing the defensive coordinator (which isn’t going to happen on a short week) or begging Kris Richard to come back and help out. The reality is this season is being reduced to ‘hope for the best’. You’re going to hear the old adage that 20 years ago fans could only dream of the playoffs, so you should just be satisfied that you’ve got that morsel to digest. Frankly, that’s all you’re going to get.

Long term — as in the off-season — is where the serious decisions need to be made.

Carroll requires a specialist, experienced staff from now on. He needs to bring in a defensive coordinator to run the defense outright and he needs to empower that coordinator to bring in his own people to fill out the staff. Carroll should be prepared to take a backseat to focus on being the figurehead at the top of the table. The days of former USC colleagues and Carroll tree protégés need to be a thing of the past.

They also need to make difficult choices in terms of personnel. Your top earners need to be able to justify their contracts. Nothing should be off the table. The status quo can’t just continue year after year. Things need shaking up and they need to re-establish who are the players they can truly classify as the core.

They need to humble themselves and stop overthinking the draft and free agency. If you have a big glaring need for a pass rusher — go and get one. Don’t squander millions dishing out RFA contracts to Branden Jackson and Joey Hunt, spend $7m on a tight end who’s been actively contemplating retirement and then decide $3m on Benson Mayowa will do after all.

This front office gets a lot of praise. It’s time for that to stop and a sense of pressure and urgency needs to be applied instead. Sometimes it’s OK to be predictable — doing things like fixing your needs in free agency then making a draft pick that is recognised as logical.

They need to do a detailed and thorough review that looks at how they came to put together the D-line that they did for 2020, in part because they didn’t like the value, only to trade the house for a blitzing safety who has been hurt all year and is now making business decisions.

And if they were inclined to make a massive trade like this, why not do it for Jalen Ramsey instead — given the way his mere presence was enough to take out Seattle’s top skill player on Sunday? When will Jamal Adams ever do that to an opponent?

If asked, no doubt Carroll and Schneider will go to great lengths to say everything is discussed and analysed and reviewed. To what extent though? Do they have to go, cap in hand, to the current owner and explain their decision making process at the end of each season? Are they challenged from the top?

You can say this talk is premature but what’s the point in waiting to discuss what seems obvious? This needs to be embraced and something done about it. The change has to come from within, with the existing football structure, because Carroll isn’t going anywhere. We cannot be sat here in 12 months talking about the same things yet again.

For now we look ahead to Thursday and hope for a win. We hope things will flip and suddenly, from nowhere, this team will grow into something nobody can predict based on their last two performances.

I’m desperate to be proven wrong. I want to eat the words in this article. Unfortunately though, topics like this are going to need to be taken seriously from now on. We have to be prepared to have these uncomfortable discussions.

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  1. Rob Staton

    I hope people take this article in the spirit it was intended. I didn’t wake up today and think, I know, I want to write a really provocative piece to upset people and pile on another bad loss.

    I simply think it’s a conversation we have to have. There’s no point hiding from it. I want to be proven wrong and I hope I reference this article in an apology to Carroll down the line.

    • david

      Seems to me to be so obviously a coaching problem. Even though I agree the drafts have left us wanting, on the other hand this roster does have names that would be picked up instantly on the waiver wire, defense included. Problem is putting the pieces together in the right way.

      Case in point is the offense. Carroll “recanted”, started passing more on early downs and until Russell melted down, was a good example of adaptation.

      Defense on the other hand despite some very good players is horrific and it’s not just lack of a defensive line. It’s a) recognizing what the other team is going to do, and b) preparing your team to respond. Not even looking to have a Top 5 defense, just something in the mid-teens would be sufficient. But this coaching staff isn’t getting it done, and although you may not agree, IMHO there is enough talent on this defense to be a mid-teens defense at least.

      As to Wilson, and the games he’s now costing us: seems so simple to me. He’s playing for himself/his reputation/MVP/his legacy whatever, instead of for the wins. He’s gotten all caught up in the “Let Russ Cook” movement, found himself on a pace to break Manning’s TD record, started seeing himself as the consensus MVP, and (again IMHO), started playing for the record books as opposed to for the wins. Wants to make sure his YPA doesn’t drop. Wants to throw 4-5 TD’s/game. If Rodgers or Mahomes got a 130+ QB rating, he can’t be throwing the ball away or taking the dinks and dunks or running plays the defenses give him. And has to have at least 3-4 spectacular “go viral” plays/game, otherwise he won’t be on the front page Monday morning. I so wish he’d forget all that, forget how “unlimited” he is, and just play for the wins. Not for stats. Maybe being too harsh but that’s what it feels like to me.

      He’s causing as many sacks as his OL is giving up, bc he just won’t dink and dunk. And it’s on him — both Carroll and Schotty have clearly let him dictate the offense.

      Joe Montana’s career stats:
      – QB rating: #16
      – TD’s: #17
      – Yards: #21
      – Completion %: #21
      – YPA: #31
      – INT %: #33
      – TD%: #46

      Different era of course but Steve Young who followed him, ranks higher on virtually every stat, yet Montana is generally the one who’s in the GOAT conversations. IT’S ABOUT WINNING RUSS, IT’S NOT ABOUT THE STATS

      • dza990

        Agreed, the Russ for MVP train seems to have derailed the Seahawks for Super Bowl train. The overhaul hasn’t worked and needs to be overhauled. I was skeptical of the Schottenheimer hire, but it has for the most part worked out. I was never on board with the Norton hire, and it’s been worse than I could’ve ever imagined. These defensive performances are ruining my enjoyment of the games and I fear, like Rob, the season is doomed to repeat the past 5 years early exit in the playoffs.

        • Pugs1

          Count me in on the Russ got caught up in the MVP hype train but I’m still not giving up all hope on righting the ship in 2020. I believe Russ will rebound and maybe his MVP hopes being derailed might be the best thing for the team in the long run. I don’t expect Norton to be fired until the end of the year. just like with Cable Pete stayed loyal for too long but Solari has worked out welland turned the OL around. If they can make the right DC hire there is no reason to believe they can’t turn the D into a middle of the pack unit quickly with the available talent . Pete will have to relinquish some control. The big question is will he do it?

    • Iforgotmyname

      I will admit I wasn’t completely in agreement at the start of the Season with much of what was being discussed here but it turned out to be absolutely correct. I know everyone on here knows football and probably watches a lot and I certainly do as well. In looking at this team, the handwriting is on the wall everything Rob has said is correct. Just not sure anything can be done immediate three to five-year future amd it sucks. Honestly, turns out 2010-2015 was as much luck as skill when it comes to roster building and culture change

    • Tallyhawk

      This article is on point Rob. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a few weeks now. I remember when Holmgren retired he said something along the lines of it just being time. 10 years is about the longest a coach should be in one place.

    • Tyler Jorgensen

      I felt it was completely reasonable and completely warranted.

      I’m disappointed, and have been disappointed, in the coaching for quite some time. The NFL is about innovation, and we’ve ran counter to that trying to recapture our past.

      The league has moved on, but it doesn’t seem like we want to do so as well.

    • AlaskaHawk

      I think your article is reasonable considering what has happened over the last few years. I’ve been waiting to see improvements during the season but it seems to be getting worse. The many injuries and using backups in the corner, safety and running back positions must be having some effect.

  2. Lukas

    Great article, Rob. Nothing provocative, just great analysis.
    One question: Are there any tactical changes you would recommend assuming they don’t change personal or coaching staff during the season? Anything they could do to at least give themselves a better chance of beating Arizona and turning it around?

    • Rob Staton

      I think defensively I’m lost for answers. They’ve just got to hang in there and hope they can force turnovers, get enough stops, while also knowing they’re going to give up so many long scoring drives and be totally awful on third down.

      Offensively I want to see them actually game plan to highlight their best players. ‘How do we get DK the ball?’ should be a priority. It seems to me that they’re fixated on some kind of run and gun system and yet with teams teeing off on Wilson they should be able to find ways to exploit that, not cave.

      But I’m not an X’s and O’s guy so I can’t offer much more than that.

      • Elmer

        1. IMO teams are trying to take away the threat of Metcalf and force the offense to beat them with other people. Without RB’s that’s not easy.

        2. Do you think Diggs is playing while injured? Or is he just bad, against the pass and the run.

        4. Pete’s career has shown that he’s a good coach. I hope this situation is redeemable.

  3. bv eburg

    Haha, I just posted the following about ten minutes ago on yesterdays game recap. So will repost since you did want to go there this morning!

    Good morning Rob,
    Like politics, when you give an opinion half the people are going to love you and half the people are going to hate you. You are well over half the people loving you on this sight so keep up the good work.

    I’ve seen the handwriting on the wall with this team for the last 4 years and don’t get to worked up anymore while watching. With that said I thought with a solid offseason and draft this year had a clear path towards a SB. Obviously that didn’t happen and now I don’t see a clear path to getting back to SB.

    If things stay rocky I think there will be pressure on Pete to do something similar to when Bevell and Cable were moved on from. It’s probably not time yet as it’s mid-season but at some point it might be good to spitball ideas on how to move forward.

    Adams reminds me of Polamalu and if we are keeping him moving forward is their someone from former seahawk/current steeler DC Keith Butlers tree that might know how to use him?

    Thanks for your time Rob.

  4. Denver Hawker

    This was a tough read and I’m sure a tough article to write as a fan. I think you’re right here but I’m not yet willing to accept it yet.

    It does make me wonder if there is something else going on besides the obvious roster construction problems. They are lacking a mentality. Russ’ “be in neutral” attitude wouldn’t work for me and wonder if that emotionless play has taken joy out the game for other players. When I think of 2013, there was so much attitude on the field that imbued confidence in every player. There is none of that now. Even Jamal Adams seems to have had a muzzle put on him. A lot of guys won’t want to play here because of that. How do you play with a chip on your shoulder when it has to be sunshine and rainbows all the time.

    • bv eburg

      Re; muzzle on Adams,
      Did anyone else notice Adams barking at KNJ after his strip fumble? Norton was walking up to drink table and Adams said something to him in an amped up fashion. Also saw clip of Pete talking up close and personal at his face mask while he was sitting on bench.

      • Denver Hawker

        Yes, noticed all those things and saw him swat the ball out of Everett’s hands when he used it to signal a first down. The team needs more of that from him and others.

        • Elmer

          They miss Blair.

    • Rob Staton

      There’s nothing brash about the 2020 Seahawks and I think that’s a problem.

      • Kyle

        The big factor that changed my mind has been the attitude. The team looks beaten. Pete looks confused but also resigned. Any x and o or personnel issue could be tinkered with, but the organization just feels like it is curling into the fetal position.

        Thanks for your work Rob. I’m astounded at the troll farm that has sprung up here. You don’t deserve that.

      • Jordan E

        Their soft tbh. The whole positivity approach and we’re all friends and close culture going on does not appear conducive to developing the brash/aggressive Hawk culture that one them the SB and got them to another the following year.

        I really question whether the sports Psychologists Russ has are developing the right mindset in him. He needs to have the killer instinct that the greatest sports stars have. Remaining neutral and optimistic about everything isn’t enough. Its a bit dark- but there needs to be that personal gratification and killer element that wants to demolish and dominate the competition… MJ and Kobe are the best examples of this.

        • Jordan E

          Prime L.O.B and Beast Mode and ADB also epitomized this.

  5. Ian

    This all resonates.

    If we wanted to pursue a true rebuild — tear down and start over — what could we get in draft equity for:
    —Anyone else we could get positive value for

    • John

      I think you at least keep DK.

      • austin

        You don’t trade Russ. That is an insane take imo. Bring in new coaching, look at aging players and their contracts, make some tough decisions etc. but you keep an all time great QB in his prime, Keep DK,, Lockett and build around your best unit. Adapt on defense and see where you’re at.

        • Kyle

          Bobby wouldn’t get much but he doesn’t justify his cost.

        • BoiseSeahawk

          Require Russ and Bobby to restructure their contracts at least, if they want to stay.

    • GoHawksDani

      I doubt trading/cutting everyone and build the roster from 0 players would be a good idea.
      I wouldn’t trade DK. Young, cheap, on his way to be a superstar. He might be the absolute #1 WR in the league in 2-3 years.
      I also wouldn’t trade Lockett. You can likely get a mid-early R2 or maybe a late R1 for him, but to me that’s the ceiling. And you won’t draft a better WR there. He’s not that pricy, he’s young, he’s dependable. Not sure if it’s the scheme, or Russ, or Lockett, but he might not be a WR1, maybe only a WR2 or the absolute best WR3 in the league, but it’s also possible that he could be a true WR1 delivering every week.

      As for Russ…if you want to unload big contract and get a ton of high picks, he could be a target. Super risky, and it might push the franchise into just sucking for 2-5-10 years, but he’s the only player who’d gave big CAP relief and a ton of picks. I think you could get 3 R1, 1 R2 and 2 R3 or something like that for him. He’s amongst the top3-4 QB for sure. As for getting excited for the drafts to come, I’d like it (who doesn’t want mid-high R1 picks on this site :D), but if I’m being serious, I doubt it would be really wise.
      If they’d pull the trigger, I wouldn’t be mad. If they wouldn’t do it, I’d be fine either way.

      Duane Brown could also command some value, but as he’s getting older, the compensation wouldn’t be that good, but he’s pretty valuable for us, so it’d be a no for me.

      As for guys who could be trade candidates:
      Bobby Wagner:
      Still 2 years on his contract. 35m money, 7,5m dead CAP. Not sure about the trade compensation, I’d say mid R2

      KJ Wright: This is the last year of his contract. If they’d extend him now and trade him in the offseason he could get us probably a late R3 or mid R4. I think he’s worth more to the Hawks then to the league

      Jarran Reed: contracted ’til end of 2021, so he’ll have 1 more year on his contract. Around 14m in cash with zero dead CAP. Not sure about value. If he could get at least 5 sacks on this awful line he might worth something, if not…yeah… With an OK-good year from him, I’d say R3-R4, with a not so good R6

      Diggs: Contracted til end of next year. 5,5m CAP hit zero dead cap. He doesn’t worth much. Maybe an R5

      Jamal Adams: Next year is his final. 10m CAP hit, zero dead CAP. I doubt we’d get R1, R1, R3 + player for him. Especially the way he plays sometimes. We might get an R1 and R3

      Shell: next year is his final. 5,5m and 2m dead CAP. Maybe you get an R4-R5 he was OK. I think he’s more valuable to us then to the league.

      Hollister: This is his final year, so you’d need to tag/extend him. He’s an OK move TE, probably not worth too much, maybe late R4 or R5

      Collier: ’22 is the final year with potential 5th year option in ’23. You wouldn’t really save money and there’d be some dead cap. Not sure how much does he worth, I don’t think anything higher than an R5, but maybe only R7

      Dissly: Next year is his final. 1m CAP hit with some small dead cap. He’s good at blocking but didn’t have much catches and had some injuries. I’d say R6

      Rasheem Green: Next year is his final. Similar financially to Dissly. Had some injuries, but pretty young and had some really minor momentum before started on IR this year. I’d say late R4 or R5

      David Moore: Last year, so we’d need to extend him. Pretty solid gadget player, had some nice catches. Good WR4/WR5 and decent WR3. Still pretty young, can’t remember major injuries, so I’d say mid R4

      Poona Ford: Last year, so need to extend. Not an every down DT, but showed some skills to penetrate both in run game and as a passrusher. Has great motor. Young, no major injuries. I’d say R4 might be a reality, but maybe R5 only.

      So… you likely won’t get R1-R2 picks for anyone except Bobby (and DK and Lockett and Russ, but I wouldn’t trade them).

      If I’d wanna tear down to a bare minimum, I’d do these:
      Keep on offense:
      Lockett, DK
      Dissly (mostly for blocking)
      Brown, Pocic, Lewis, Shell (Jones/Simmons can play LG)
      Dallas, Homer (draft 1-2 RB and maybe sign one also)

      As for Russ…depends on how I view the upcoming QB classes. I don’t need a franchise QB immediately, if I could build a pretty good defense and good offensive supporting cast (someone like Alex Smith, or Bridgewater or similar caliber would work right now). And depends on how much could we get for him. 3x R1, 2x R2 and maybe a player and I’d be sold. Less than that (like something similar to our Adams trade) and a no go from me

      Keep on defense:
      Green (rotational piece), Ford (rotational), Dunlap (he might be one of the better players on the line), Taylor (?)
      KJ (as SAM if he’d wanna stay for a smaller contract), Brooks
      Amadi (nCB), DJ Reed (returner? nCB), Neal (SS)

      Trade these guys:
      Bobby, Reed, Diggs, Adams, Moore, Hollister, Collier

      This would relieve some CAP space and also give us something like: 1x R1, 1x R2, 1x R3, 3x R4, 2x R6

      (if we’d trade Russ also, then get some game manager OKish QB (vet can work or someone in R2-R3))

      Get 2 DTs, one just a big body run stuffer, and one that can penetrate a bit too (in R4-5 the other in R2-3)
      Get 2 DEs hopefully better than our current group (I’d try to get both from FA)
      Get 2-3 good CBs (mostly from the draft, between R1-R4 and maybe even an FA)
      Get an LB (if Brooks more comfortable MLB then a WILL if at WILL then an MLB, FA could work)
      Get an FS (probably from FA as we don’t have ton of picks)
      Get 2-3 RBs (one around R3-4 in draft, one could be R6-7 and maybe even an FA)
      Get a TE (late draftee can work)
      Pad the roster from the late rounds where it’s missing depths with 3 types of guys:
      1, athletic freaks who are really rough and need 1-2-3 years to get good in the NFL
      2, athletic, solid guy with concerns (health/character)
      3, dependable, OK/mehh guys for depth

      Probably cannot be done without a ton of picks and moderate CAP space in 1 year, but in 2-3 years it might be doable and being very aggressive the roster could look a lot different even in 1 year imo.

      • Ben

        This isn’t Madden. The only player on your list who have any trade value (sans DK) would be Wilson and Adams. As to the rest, you’d be lucky to fetch 5th/6th round picks (unless you expect to eat the majority of the salary).

      • Jeff

        The same reason you want to trade Bobby (he’s underperforming a very expensive contract) is the same reason he’s not traceable. Nobody is going to trade for an aging linebacker who comes with cap hits of $17.15 and $20.35 million in the next two years.

    • Jeff

      You can’t trade a great QB in his prime; that’s the most difficult asset to acquire in maybe all of North American pro sports. Really you can’t trade any of the pieces you mention above; those are the guys you have to build around.

      Personnel wise the problem with this team is the defense, which is a combination of aging greats (Bobby, KJ), young guys who flash but aren’t consistent (Quinton, Shaquill) and then a bunch of guys who just were badly overdrafted given their talent and/or positional value (Collier, Brooks).

      If you want to rebuild the defense you probably need to bring in an entire new scheme and start from scratch. Lots of smart folks suggest building it around Jamal and maybe going with something closer to a 3-4 defensive front, with Jamal playing a sort of Big Nickel role. Having him as a box safety in Pete’s Cover-3 system (even as they play less and less Cover 3) is not a smart use of his talent.

    • Travuw

      Jesus… Literally 15 days ago Russ is considered the consensus most valuable player in the league. He has 2 games of mediocre play and 1 terrible game this year amidst a career of one of the all-time-greats play and it’s time to trade him…

      Christ… Literally 15 days ago DK is leading the league in yards and looks like the emerging most dominant WR in the league in his 2nd year. He gets blanked by the most athletic corner in football in the game his QB has a career worst day. Ya, let’s trade him.

      Back. Away. From. The. Ledge.

      I get it – this has been some truly ugly defensive football – with shitty offense this week. But seriously, these “burn it all down” takes with a 6-3 record amidst Covid and some adveristy on offense. YIKES

    • Walter W Rucker

      I think 3 first round picks for Russ, maybe a player too
      Lockett 2nd
      DK stays!!

    • Pugs1

      Count me out on a full rebuild.

      Get a hammer at RB that can stay healthy.

      Hire a young innovative DC.

      Add some help at DE and CB would do wonders for this team.

  6. sonicreducer

    Excellent, excellent article Rob.

    I’ve come to the realization the PCJS era should be over. Last night was the most listless performance from a Seahawk team in a while. I actually feel worse about this game than the beatdown the Rams gave us in the Clink a few years back. Pete’s message has been lost and players are just going through the motions. Russ is cracking under the pressure of the whole team on his back.

    Cracks in the foundation started 3 years ago and now its tumbling down before our eyes. Bummer.

    I actually had a dream last night that Pete steps down this offseason. I think its time.

    Love your blog, Rob. I rarely post, but I visit several times a day. You have a great way with putting my thoughts about this team into words.

  7. GoHawksDani

    Do you think Carroll can step back? Be a figurehead?
    Do you think PCJS capable of turn this roster upside down?
    Because I have no hope for any of these.
    These should happen but I think firing Carroll is more likely (like 2% chance PCJS change their ways totally and 4% chance of FO change in the offseason/next year)

    • Rob Staton

      “Do you think Carroll can step back? Be a figurehead?”

      In order to succeed, I’m not sure he has much choice any more.

      • Big Mike

        I believe you’re right and I don’t believe for one second he’ll do it.

      • GoHawksDani

        I agree, they should do it to succeed…but without an owner’s push, Carroll might think it’ll work just needs a bit more time and push the issues aside or maybe not push aside just do an offseason similar to the previous. And as for the coaches…I don’t think Carroll has it in him to bring in fresh faces and give them the control 🙁

  8. kevin mullen

    If we look at the game from 2nd half on regarding the defense, they still did a tremendous job of making the adjustments, and that’s the key. Half time adjustments has made this team what it is. The problem has been (especially the last few games) is the turnovers and time of possession. We’re losing both.

    • Rob Staton

      This ignores the pressure the defense put on the offense to chase the game after they surrendered 240 yards and 17 points on the first three drives. Great, they tightened up. The damage was arguably done as Wilson pressed and made stupid mistakes in part because, for the second week in a row, it was the opponent applying scoreboard pressure not the Seahawks.

      • Lewis

        If you think about the way this team has played historically, the offense has tended to start slowly throughout this era. And Wilson has thrived under scoreboard pressure. Just look at all the come from behind winds he has amassed. Wilson is playing poorly. Blaming that to any extent on scoreboard pressure is a disservice to his ability/talent. I can’t imagine he would excuse to any degree his own performance on being behind, so why should we?

        • Rob Staton

          Wilson has never had to deal with a defense like this.

          We can’t compare the comebacks of previous years with the current setup.

  9. Big Mike

    A week and a half ago I stated that it was “probably for the best” that Punt Carroll was extended considering the ownership situation. I no longer feel that way. What we witnessed yesterday was shit of epic proportions. I completely agree the wheels have utterly and totally come off.

    Let’s start with Jamal Adams. The “business decision” by him (can’t call that a “tackle”) was disgusting to watch. Pete will pontificate about him hurting his shoulder and gutting it out and blah, blah, blah. My guess is he came back into the game because he’s starting to realize if he doesn’t play from here on out he’s costing himself money. He appears to be a selfish, me first player much like Harvin before him. From this point forward, you’ll see him make attempts at strip sacks and the like but little physicality due to this month’s owee. Two firsts, a third and a decent player for THAT. Another epic fail of a trade by Punt and his lapdog Schneider.

    One poster mentioned last night that if Carroll is such a DB whisperer, why haven’t we seen ANY drafted/traded for DBs step up since Sherm? A great point imo. It’s a fairly long list of guys that have been either drafted or traded for and none have been good at coverage, none. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

    Without ranting on and on, suffice to say this franchise is screwed for the next 7-8 years, 5 under Carroll and then 2 or 3 to recover and hopefully rebuild under a new regime once Jody sells the team. My only hope is that she sells sooner than 5 years and we can move on from this in a speedier fashion. I want desperately to be wrong about this, wrong about where this is headed. Sadly, I have little to no hope it’s going to turn around.

    If Carroll had any balls he’d blow most of this up and start over, especially on the defense. Get what you can for Adams, even if it’s nothing more than a 3rd. Instead he’ll refuse to do so because like most autocrats he’ll be more interested in proving he’s right rather than fixing the problem. But if you are accountable to no one, you need not worry about fall out now do you?

  10. Dave1401

    I see a lot of people being optimistic about the way the defense played in the second half. It was nothing different for me. The difference was penalties being committed by the Rams putting them into 2nd/3rd and long. Also the Rams we’re playing with a 10 point lead in control so played super conservative. I have no doubt in my mind that if the Seahawks had continued scoring points the Rams could have put up 50. The Rams should have done what Buffalo did and just abandoned the run.

    I hate how ‘nice’ this defense is. There’s just no cunts. I loved 2011 and 2012 where every play was chippy and you felt like a brawl could break out at any time. As has been pointed out by others, watching this defense just feels like a practice scrimmage. There’s no emotion or intensity at all.

    The defense being historically bad is unforgiveable as is, but when you think of the resources spent, you’re lost for words. How can you spend 3 first round picks, a second, a third, a fifth, trade a quality starter (McDougald) and not improve?

    • Rob Staton

      Facts about the defense:

      — They gave up 9/15 on third down and 1/1 on fourth down

      — They surrendered 17 points and 240 yards on LA’s first three drives pouring the pressure on Seattle’s offense to chase the game

      As you rightly say, it was more of the same.

      And frankly I think the Rams would’ve simply gone through the gears if they weren’t constantly comfortably ahead.

      • Dave1401

        — They gave up 9/15 on third down and 1/1 on fourth down

        3rd down D was probably worse than the stats indicate because there were a few ‘give-up’ plays in there – screens and the like. I don’t get excited about sacks or penalties anymore because 3rd and long is so easy for offenses against us.

    • SeattleLifer

      Thank you, somebody who saw what I saw. Heck even Troy Aikman was talking about how the Rams were dialing it down and playing it safe with the lead. McVay is a smart man he saw how Seattle’s offense was being handled and he knew that if needed he could dial his offense back up at will for more points. Did the Hawks d play a little better in the second half? Yes but not near as much as people think and it was just as much a product of the Rams letting up and playing not to lose as anything our d did.

    • Duceyq

      “The business decision” is mischaracterized and overblown. Adam’s shoulder was obviously hurting and from the angle he was at making reach tackle could’ve caused more damage and possibly season ending without stopping the runner I might add.

      I don’t know why Adam’s is being singled out for gutting it out through injury like most athletes and it’s easy to call someone else’s toughness into question from the sideline but this “business decision” mantra should be panned and championed.

      • Rob Staton

        If he can’t make that play he shouldn’t be on the field. It cost them a TD.

  11. Big Mike

    Rob and the rest of you all, how much do you believe Carroll stating last week that the defensive problems weren’t coaching but rather were the players had to do with the meltdown we saw yesterday?

    • Rob Staton

      If you’re implying that they played like crap because of that comment, I’m not buying it.

      If you play like crap you can’t complain when you get called out — even if you’re not 100% to blame.

      • Big Mike

        Not implying that as the only reason. Just wondering if psychologically it left them with little fire. It’s one thing to play poorly, it’s another to play with no heart, no fire.

      • Elmer

        Legion of Poof. Channel Chancellor, hit somebody.

  12. Austin Slater

    Rob this is the best article you’ve written and you are 100% spot on. I’m tired of the “you’re insane” if you question Pete crowd. At what point do we start to question the leadership? I’m probably being too harsh but Pete feels like end of career Jeff Fisher but with an elite QB. Way too antiquated, unwilling to adapt or see his blind spots and not going to get any better.

    On a side note his answer to the punt was terrible. He chose to assume the worst case scenario with a league best offense while assuming best case scenario with his historically bad defense. He doesn’t get it.

    • Rob Staton

      Thank you

  13. no frickin clue


    I think Pete is putting his best guys out there. This is first and foremost a roster construction problem – the draft capital used on defensive players has been squandered. Too many guys either never contributed at all or seem like replacement-level talent. In the meantime, the stars on D get older, get slower, and all of a sudden the wheels come off.

    The last decent year of drafting on D, for me, is ironically 2016, when they used just two picks on that side of the ball – Jarran Reed and Quinton Jefferson. Look at the chess pieces collected since then:

    2017 (6): Malik McDowell, Shaquill Griffin, Delano Hill, Nazair Jones, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson
    2018 (4): Rasheem Green, Shaquem Griffin, Tre Flowers, Jacob Martin
    2019 (6): L.J. Collier, Marquise Blair, Cody Barton, Ugo Amadi, Ben Burr-Kiven, Demarcus Christmas
    2020 (3): Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, Alton Robinson

    Who among that crowd of 19 draft choices has really made a difference on the defensive side of the ball? It’s too early to tell with some of the 2019 and 2020 selections, but in most cases, we have little to show for it.

    The trades we’ve done have been an artifact of the inability to supply enough talent through the draft. Sheldon Richardson. Clowney. And now the desperation move for Jamal Adams, which half a season in looks laughable.

    If Pete has final say on roster construction, then perhaps it’s time to cede that role to John alone. And if it’s John that’s legitimately had final say, then perhaps we need a new GM, or at least a revamp of the scouting department.

    With little draft capital to look forward to, I would not be surprised if we’re looking at a few years of middling 8-8 or 9-7 play, propped up by a superstar QB who, one would assume, is looking around at the other chess pieces and wondering if perhaps it’s time to find a new chessboard when his current contract expires.

    • Big Mike

      “The trades we’ve done have been an artifact of the inability to supply enough talent through the draft. Sheldon Richardson. Clowney. And now the desperation move for Jamal Adams, which half a season in looks laughable.”

      This, this and oh yeah, this. In the NFL with a finite salary cap, quality drafting, along with excellence at QB, is an absolute must to maintain status as a contender.

      • Matt

        Screw it, throw Burr-Kiven, Barton, and Brooks in there and see what happens! Kj and Bobby are all time seahawk greats, but they look slow..

    • Jordan E

      Tbh I think its the scheme… its outdated and too predictable. Teams have had about 10 years of film to attack it. Dan Quinns defense is the second worse unit… Gus Bradley has been struggling recently as well.

      Like any business, if you dont innovate then eventually you’ll be left in the dust as the rest of your competition moves forward. Survival of the fittest.

      • dcd2

        The scheme would be adequate if we had the personnel to run it, but we don’t.

        We have zone CB’s who are being tasked with man-to-man (not to mention they’re all hurt). We slowing LB’s who are being asked to blitz or play man coverage. We have a SS who can’t cover, so we don’t know what to with him except blitz. And we have a DL that gets stonewalled when they rush 4 v 5.

        Arizona has been running an interesting look on their DL. They bring 6 to 8 guys up to the LOS, but none of them have a hand in the dirt. They are all standing. They sometimes bring 6/6 and sometimes drop 4/8 in coverage. I have no idea if it’s being effective, but at least it’s creating some confusion. It feels like our blitzes are telegraphed and obvious.

  14. AlaskaHawk

    Seahawks need a rebuild from their rebuild. They just haven’t done very well lately – and it is getting worse.

    Looking at this from another angle. Why are so many players injured? How can the defense or offense play when there is a constant rotation of players? Defensively the corners and safeties change weekly, and the defensive line is like a sieve.

    Offensively they can’t field a starting running back, you know it’s bad when Homer is starting. The line has never had continuity from year to year. And finally Russell Wilson – still a game manager and not an MVP. His biggest flaw in my opinion, is the way he ignores certain receivers or positions. Usually it’s the tight ends, it took him a couple years to figure out he could toss jump balls to Jimmy Graham in the end zone. Last night it was Metcalf in the forgotten zone. I don’t know that Russell Wilson should be extended. He’s good, like top 10 good, but not superbowl good, and he isn’t improving with age.

    Things are tough for the Seahawks, and with the lack of two first round picks they are screwed from the start on a rebuild. Also I don’t think they will pay Adams the big bucks, but if they do he will probably underperform his contract. I just see some tough years ahead.

  15. GoHawksDani

    What was scary is that there were zero heart and emotions from anyone…
    Pete was irritated and sad and confused all game long. He didn’t run up and down, didn’t really celebrate TDs, nice plays. He does that even when it seems like the Hawks losing the game. Zero energy from him.
    Mostly it’s the same for the defense. Zero energy coming from Bobby. Adams was the only one who I saw pumped up or pissed or angry or happy. Maybe also Poona
    ST brought some energy, with Myers smiling after the 61 yarder, or Reed happy after long return.
    Russ usually has really few emotions showing, but it seemed even less in this game. He was somewhat sad and angry, but again….zero energy
    Lockett plays like it’s practice. Not celebrating, not being happy, not being angry (I miss the good old angry Doug)
    DK seemed a bit frustrated, but not enough for me, he could be an emotional leader on the offense.

    I get it…cool, calm, collected is amazing, it won’t cloud your judgement, etc. And I don’t want divas. But sometimes you need to challenge yourself, your teammates or your coaches. It’s OK to show frustration, to show joy, to jump up and down, to shout, etc.
    Can’t remember who it was (Hawks player), maybe Earl, but became mad for something, shouted at the DC and maybe other players. But after that the team gathered around him, and jumped all together. It was a really nice moment, and felt like it’s bigger than the sum of it’s parts, it was a team, it was a family.

    • Sea Mode

      I agree, Dani. No “juice” out there any more, sadly.

  16. Jordan E

    Not sure what to say but its just sad. The Hawks need to win this Thursday.

    Russ- the only continued brightspot- shat the game last night, along with his mvp campaign.

    Also, I watched the podcast yesterday and one thing I gotta say is if we can still somehow get to the dance there is a chance. Think when Philly one with Foles… that was so improbable but the team got hot and outperformed during that stretch. So did Baltimore when the won with Flacco years ago. Its possible if we can still get in.. albeit we now longer will be a strong-consistent contender.

    • Kyle

      Unfortunately for us those teams had a strong D, and the offenses got hot at the right time. Our D can’t hold anyone so even if the offense gets hot it won’t move the needle.

      • Jordan E

        The odds arent good for sure. And especially even worse considering the defense.. Maybe its just the optimist in me, but I dont think its fully over yet. The hawks may still have a 1-2% chance if they get in. I guess the closest comparison would be when Chiefs got super close the year before winning SB. Russ got to get out his slump for that happen and to start playing at the mvp level he is capable to again.

        Meanwhile, the defense has to improve and/or at least not be one of the most terrible units in the league. Yes, its unlikely all of this happens but its still possible I believe.

  17. Matthew Still

    D played ok yesterday all things considered, gave up 23pts. If you told me that b4 the game I would bet 10 out of 10x that we would have won the game. RW is just in a slump, it happens. He is making dumb plays that are very uncharacteristic. THe INT in the endzone was mind-numbing, he had an entire field to run, could have scrambled with ease for 15-20yds. Just poor decision making.

    The good news is when you have a HOF QB you can turn things around instantly with an injection of just a few key pieces.

  18. Jordan E

    Not a joke but we should bring back Lynch as like an assistant coach or something to give these guys hopefully some bite back… Jamal Adams and DK are dawgs but we need some more on the team to get the mindset right. Football is one of the most competitive and aggressive professions out there. Hawks were the best when we were the aggressors/bullies out there in the field. I think this exact reason is what Pete means when he says Carsons running style brings more than a tactical benefit on the field.

  19. Hoggs41

    The bad news is these last two games have been very tough to watch. Between the defense getting gashed at will and our QN turning the ball over its not fun. The good news is we still have the softest schedule in the NFL with a chance to go 6-1 or even 7-0. Can we win games in the next two months and improve the defense? Time will tell. If we can win on Thursday and have the Rams lose in Tampa we will be back in first place with an easy ride. The problem is if we do get to 12-4 or even 13-3 how will our playoff chances look? At this time probably not good but this is the NFL where anything can happen.

    • KnightHawk

      Yup it’s Ok to lose road games as long as you win home games. They way Seattle is losing & winning games is disturbing & the revelations can be positive if they adjust properly. When faced with adversity do you rise above it or fall victim to it.

  20. Rob Staton

    We need a corner. Sign him.

    • Tecmo Bowl

      Dunbar should be able to vouch for him! Haha

      Signing Baker makes too much sense for JS to bite.

    • KnightHawk

      Unbelievable a CB just drops out of the sky! Just when you think you’ve seen it all. If Dunbar has an issue with it cut him.

    • Pran

      We cant have fights breaking out between CBs.. Dunbar threw Baker under the bus if i remember.

    • Scot04

      100% agree. Plus if you have no problem going after Antonio Brown, you should definitely have 0 problem going after a legitimate corner when ours are playing horrible.

    • CaptainJack

      Get it done!

  21. Rik

    Here’s a quote from Brian Nemhauser’s Morning After column at Hawkblogger. It’s a great article that really calls out the coaches and Russ for this latest horror show we were forced to endure.

    “Read it and weep. The Seahawks allow opponents to score points on 70% of the drives they start inside their own 10-yard line. In fact, the Rams scoring a touchdown on a 93-yard drive in the first half made it six straight opponent drives starting inside their own 10 that resulted in points against the Seahawks.

    Of course, this drive did not start inside the 10-yard line because Carroll chose to take a delay of game penalty. This was just a wee little 88-yard touchdown drive.

    Carroll had the mind-blowing audacity to say, “What if they took the ball and went down and scored right there?” Good god, man. Are you listening to yourself? They did take the ball down and score right there. They always take the ball down and score. You have the worst defense in the history of the sport, and that’s not an exaggeration.”

    I don’t want to copy too much of the article because of copyright issues. Pete is losing the fans and may be well on his way to losing the team, too.

  22. KnightHawk

    If they beat AZ at home it changes everything for the moment and if they lose it reinforces the beliefs of a melt down. Personally I’ve never believed RW is MVP material, I think he can be in the future if he plays the game God gave him. Rams have a great defense that beat RW! RW is not good enough yet to beat the Rams Defense. In order to beat the Rams Defense RW needs help, from his TE’s, RB, OL, & Offensive coordinator, when RW admits he’s not as good as he thinks he is then Seattle can begin the road to victory. Jamal Adams is playing himself out of the highest paid Safety in the league, that could workout for Seattle if he outperforms his future contract. KJ is a liability to the big play in the passing game, both CB’s have humble pie to eat, Carroll should have known Norton wasn’t going to last as Defensive Coordinator which in my mind is the biggest weakness on the team, Carroll better figure something out quick! Veteran Coaches like Carroll should have no problem fixing the Norton issue & must have the “awareness” to get on it. If Carrol can’t fix the Norton issue, it’s Carroll who is having the Meltdown. That’s right Pete Carroll could be having a Meltdown! The question is why?

  23. Theo

    Firstly, sorry for all the crap you’re getting Rob, now and for this whole year. It is pathetic that some people kick out as soon as they are faced with a viewpoint they dislike or don’t want to admit might be true. As you and others have said, if you don’t like it go somewhere else, no one is forcing you to actively come here.

    Anyway, just wanted to say that as an Arsenal fan I was thinking about late-era Wenger when looking at Pete last night. Then I listened to your podcast today and you drew the same comparison. All I can say is that it was a horrid experience to go through and much of the fanbase still hasn’t recovered. Hoping the same doesn’t happen with Pete but there are lots of similarities, one of the biggest being a flat out refusal to adapt your coaching approach despite the weight of evidence imploring you to do so. Our greatest ever coach left under a cloud of their own making and I hope the same doesn’t happen with Pete.

    • Rob Staton

      It sounds so similar Theo.

      What a shame.

    • pdway

      oh no . . that’s a really good comparison. Sh*t.

  24. pdway

    I think these are all fair questions to ask at this point. One of the biggest agreements I have in the above is that the game was joyless to watch. It really was.

    Not sure what’s going on w Wilson – I think the absence of Carson (and I guess Hyde) hurts his game perhaps even more than I’d realized. He’s an amazing QB, but when the hawks get one-dimensional, it’s always been the case that his game suffers. I also think that other teams have really figured out our playcalling tendencies, they seem much more ready for us than we do for them.

    I actually do think the D did enough to keep us in the game, yes they gave up 17 pts at halftime, but we were only down by 4 at the half, and they allowed just one score, as our offense turned the ball over 3 times.

    Nothing is going to happen coaching-wise, etc., in-season, but we’ll all see how it plays out, and it may be that this off-season should be the first real turnover in ten years.

  25. Hawkdawg

    I’ve been surprised by a few of Pete’s revelations of his thought process before over the years, but when he confessed that he hadn’t planned on the Bills throwing and not running, I was just gobsmacked. That indicated a distance from reality that just can’t happen in a coach. Positive thinking is great in the right places and at the right doses–but magical thinking is not.

    My reaction was “we’re screwed.” So when the Rams game started as it did, it was no surprise anymore. Just sadness. It can’t just be the players’ individual talent levels. There is more to it. Scheme, coaching and now even belief.

  26. Michigan 12th

    I agree with everything that has been said. Clearly something needs to be done, but what can be done at this point? You can’t play for a good pick because we have lost those in the Adams trade. We can’t trade away Wagner because who would take him with his salary and his dead money hit would be very restrictive. What options do we have for rebuilding? We have bad draft picks and a lot of free agents that need to be signed resigned.

    Is the only way to get where we want to be time? Or do we just hope that things fix themselves? I mean what are the solutions for moving forward? I for one am tired of this sign mid level talent to a one year deal and reset every year. What can we do?

  27. Roger

    Thanks for saying it, Rob, and you said it well.

    I think it’s been apparent for a couple of years now, despite the fact that there was success on the field. In the past five years this team has always had a ceiling short of the SB, and it’s getting lower each year.

    Likewise, the string of inexplicable decisions keeps getting longer and more inexcusable. If there is a vision guiding this team, it’s a confused one that’s out of step with the current state of the NFL. It’s been clear for quite some time that the team is made in PC’s image, and he just doesn’t know what to do anymore, as he often states from the podium after a loss.

    Giving him a 5 year extension midseason made no sense, and it’s a depressing coincidence that immediately after the team chose to show its true self.

    Maybe losing will spur change.

  28. MoondustV

    I think I started the discussion of “Pete Carroll is much alike Arsene Wenger” in my Chinese Seahawks fanbase (Yeah I’m one of the senior admins there) several years ago, maybe in 2017? I did a retrospective analysis and it seems that Punt Carroll could always find a way to drag this team down ever since the Interception.

    In 2015 it was the trade of Jimmy Graham which paralyzed the O-Line for 7 games, Drew Nowak the Center was a name I never forget. The next year Carroll and Cable just plugged George Fant and let him burn, ignoring every kind of dissenting voices, plus Ifedi’s rookie season…oh and 2017 it got better, Eddie Lacy, Blair Walsh and those f**king garbage bags who weigh 300+ pounds.

    PCJS has claimed that Seahawks start to rebuild since 2018. And look at the mess they made. Bad draftees year after year, many of them are doomed to be busts basically the minute after the announcements. Nearly zero player development except DK or Lewis, unchanged playbook maybe since 2012? I can still recognize many “classic” plays from the tapes in old days.

    My conclusion is: Pete Carroll has been dragging this team down a long time ago. It’s not a simple event, it has always been a pattern, just different players cover for him in different time. I guess it’s the time that The Emperor’s New Suit finally comes loose. I don’t like my own prediction of my home team’s demise, but it eventually comes to this stage.

    I’ll just find some better things to do on TNF and maybe never get up early in 5AM for another Seahawks game this season. This is not the team I fell for in the Spring Festival of 2014. There is a proverb saying that “If the general sucks, then the troop frazzled.” Nothing sums up better.

  29. Trevor

    Agree completely with almost all points in this article. I would go as far as saying the Hawks are in the worst position of any organization in the NFC. This reminds me of the end of the Bills Marv Levy era. They were a dominant for 5 -6 years but the final 4 years they were average at best. Levy should have stepped aside 2-3 years before he did and Pete is in that mode now.

    Also can we finally but the Let Russ Cook movement to bed. He is a great QB who excels when they have a dominant run game and he can be dynamic with play action downfield shots. He is not a Pass first 40 throw a game QB and never has been.

    Carson is critical to this offense and they need to get back to running the ball and let Russ be the type of QB he is and where he excels. Glad we passed on CEH for a backup WIL linebacker.

  30. Joyodongo

    I’m utterly hopeless right now. I have 0 confidence in PC, the problem is that there’s no one above him. Do you expect Jodie Allen to have a talk with Pete, after resigning him for 5 more years?
    – One solution would be to sell the franchise to an involved owner. If this owner were me, I’d get rid of: PC, JS, KNJ, Ivan Lewis, all scouts, …. well, everyone but Schotty, Solari and the new ST coach, trade most of the players (I wouldn’t trade Russ … well, he can’t be traded), and start from scratch.
    I know it’s not happening.
    – Russ, as bad as he’s played the last month, would anyway have the chance to tell the ownership: “It’s Pete or me”. I know this is also not happening.
    I don’t see any more solutions, Pete is not going to change, he’s going to keep his nepotic babana republic for 5 more years.
    Dark Ages coming in front of us …

  31. Gohawks5151

    I resisted the urge to comment or read much yesterday so i could think about stuff clearly.

    First off, yeeeesh… the personal attacks are pathetic. This is a free football blog and we are all cheering for the same team. How this happens I’ll never know. From me, thanks Rob and keep up the good work.

    I agree with so much of this. Things need to change. The Seahawks chose Russ over every other player or group of players rightly so. There was a significant mind set change after. Pete and Russ are such positive people and they brought in so many guys that reflected that approach. But they lost that grit. I want to say that this is not a critique of Pete or Russ or the culture but I think when you have that type of environment there needs to be a group that does the dirty work. My family lived in a rough part of Hawaii yet had an immaculate yard and several ocean vehicles despite no fence. My uncle used to say, the best yards have the biggest dogs. This yard need some dogs. I think that Irvin was their half baked idea of this because he has a gritty back ground but more is needed. Positivity often wanes with results and is not natural for most people. I think that Pete and Russ look so exhausted because they are the rare ones who have a well of positivity and belief but are so desperately trying to keep others positivity afloat.

    I’m a little more hopeful about the changes that can be made. Three years ago they changed both coordinators, OL coach and a few more. Yes, that resulted in the hiring of old friends but also some new faces and ideas in Schotty and Solari. I would hope transparency brings in a few more and they are empowered to make change. I and many other have said they need greater teachers at the position coach level. That cannot be said enough no matter who takes over the defense. Look at all the guys who actually had juice yesterday. They were all the young guys. Amadi and DJ Reed flew in for TFLs. Poona with the arm over, working down the line for a TFL. Brooks breaking on a ball to Woods and smashing him for the PBU. The flashes of talent, speed and aggression are there waiting to be refined. I would put Adams name in there too. Though accomplished he is young, and has everything to gain from Pete and other strong voices. Let KJ walk and cut Diggs. Give Brooks and Blair their shot. Keep DJ Reed. Supplement in FA.

    For the rest of this season get healthy and build around what we know works. The plan on offense is built around Russ, DK and Carson. They need to be fed every game. We have true #1’s at these positions so stop pretending like you are playing with less. Tyler, Moore, Dissly and Olsen are your counter punches. The eyes on DK and Carson will open up things just like DK did yesterday for Tyler and Dissly. Defense settled in OK in the second half. Build on that. Find the balance with Jamal. And for god’s sake if you blitz him they are going to throw right behind him so replace someone in that zone. Also be ready to respond quicker to dime if teams go “all pass” mode. Build back that positivity with the schedule lightening up.

    I’ll end by saying I also compare us to the Steelers a lot in terms of organizations. Look at their records with Mike Tomlin. There are quite a few 7 to 9 win seasons in there. They also rarely change coordinators and coaches as well. Sometimes hard times are good to refocus the mind and call out the weaknesses. Hopefully Seattle listens.

    • pdway

      good post.

      someone said somewhere on here at one point (I forget who and when) – that the ups are seldom as good as you think they are, and the downs are not as bad as you think they are.

      for as crap as we played yesterday, we were in the game for the most part, and if Russ doesn’t throw those picks (and the back-up center doesn’t make that snap) – there was a stretch where it felt like the game was there in the balance to be had. we’re missing our RB1/RB2/RB3 (i’m including Penny) – no team has a great 4th running back – and I think we are being reminded again, that this offense needs a credible running game to thrive.

      In terms of the future of the team – guys like Olsen/Irvin/Mayowa/KJ are likely gone next year. I think Bobby re-structures, or is moved. We have ways to find cap room. So we re-build the defense around the few pieces that work. Granted, there is a ton of work to be done – but hopefully between Dunlap, Taylor (he’s got to play someday), Robinson, Reed, Poona, and whoever we add – we can get the D-line to a better place. I do feel pretty confident that it’s KNJ’s last year as coordinator.

      It was a dismal watch yesterday – but not an unanticipated loss. Let’s see what happens Thursday.

      • Rob Staton

        I know the score line said we were in the game.

        I never personally felt like we were. It felt like I was watching a mess.

  32. DC

    Great article. I was seeing this point of view before the season started.

  33. Matt

    Great write up Rob. I agree with all of it.

    I mentioned this in a comment yesterday – but I think they need to scrap almost everything including John Schneider and Pete Carroll. The rot has started and I just don’t think you can salvage anything when it comes to leadership – and unfortunately that includes Brian Schottenheimer, despite him doing a good job this year. Totally unfair to him, but a clean sweep is necessary at this point.

    Here’s where I also agree with you…it’s not happening. So here is my proposal:

    Pete Carroll transitions to simply being the VP of the Seahawks. His first order of business needs to be starting from scratch with the coaching staff – everybody gone. This also means Pete is no longer coaching in any capacity. He can focus on building a winning culture, which I think he is still capable of. The game has clearly passed him by, but he still has value outside of coaching.

    They need to target a young, offensive minded head coach – which should be VERY easy to acquire as they will get to work with RW + DK + Lockett. Maybe a Lincoln Riley type. The name of the game is offense in 2020. If you are starting out from a defensive mindset – you are already behind the 8 ball. That doesn’t mean you neglect the defense, but defense does not win championships. They absolutely can “lose championships,” but they can no longer win it. Just my opinion.

    Defensively, they need to target a younger coach, possibly from college. The college concepts are now standard in the NFL and Pete refuses to adjust to it. Get somebody who has combated such offenses and had success. The problem with older coaches is hubris. They simply know better than everyone and the refusal to adapt has become obvious in recent years.

    John Schneider needs to go as well. He has simply been a terrible GM in recent years. There are no excuses left with him. They have prioritized intangibles over tangible skills – and it’s killing them. Yes, intangibles are important in the NFL, but it won’t matter if you don’t have the tangible skill set to make it work. Most of their “misses” in recent years comes from simply overlooking a critical shortcoming in favor of another quality. Or they have target positions that don’t warrant high draft capital. I’m not opposed to a 1st round RB or LB…but you better believe that said player can be the best at their position in short time and at the very least are capable of being good NFL players starting year 1.

    This thing is absolutely broken. This feels worse than the end of the LOB, to be honest. They are needing to reset off of a failed reset, in which they had all the resources available to fix this thing in a hurry.

    They are now behind the 8 ball. Tough decisions will need to be made. This team needs to dump Bobby, Jamal, Diggs, etc for draft picks. They need to cut dead weight this offseason. They need to salvage picks and cap space at whatever cost. This fix will not be for the faint of heart…and I simply don’t trust Pete to do it.

    Honestly…and I hate saying this, I think it’s more realistic that Russell forces a trade out of Seattle. That might seem crazy, but he’s in his 30s – he’s not going to waste time on a second rebuild. If status quo is maintained through March of 2021 – don’t be surprised if chatter starts increasing about RW wanting out.

    *Side note – I am listening to Danny and Gallant this morning – Danny has become such a joke. Seattle media is just terrible minus Joe Fann.

  34. Pran

    Pete need to let fans attend their end of year introspection meetings.
    Sooner the ownership changes hands better, this hands off approach is not yielding better results.

  35. Noah

    Hi Rob,
    I’m a 15 y/o fan here from the UK, and have followed the team from an early age, however I’ve only really began to understand this team and the game in depth since about 3/4 years ago. For me, I’ve always been an optimistic fan of the team, and have been pro-Pete for a while. I’ve been reading your blogs now for about 2 years, and to begin with I disagreed with a lot of the things you said, as i always thought PC/JS/RW would find a way.
    With that being said, I’ve loved and appreciated PC’s contributions to the franchise, however from the end of last year, I felt some doubt into if he should stay, however I gave him benefit of the doubt. Coming into this season, I thought our team was weaker than last year’s team, but I still thought your views on the team were somewhat pessimistic.
    Since this season begun though, I began to realise how naive I previously was, and that I should become more realistic, and I’ve really begun to agree with your views, and I am usually really gutted when we lose, but this year I’ve felt unsurprised, like it was coming along. And now I feel like we’ve wasted this year, and we probably have.
    I do believe that we will make the playoffs this year, but it will be another early exit.

    And I really do love PC and what he’s done here, but sadly the time has come and I think he must go. I want to think of him as the man that got us the LOB and won us SB48, not the man that held back Russ in his prime.
    Ideally, I’d love somebody like McVay in Seattle, but that will never happen for obvious reasons. Maybe a younger, up and coming guy like Lincoln Riley would do the job, or even Schotty for a year.
    And in terms of the defense, KNJ must go now, and maybe I’m too optimistic here, but I really believe that with an innovative DC, we really have some brilliant players to base our defense on.

    So the questions I would like to ask are:
    1) Who do you believe should be the next HC, in the situation where Pete did go?
    2) Do you think Schneider should go too even?
    3) Do you think we should keep Carson coming into next year?
    and 4) Is there potential for a dramatic increase in this defense’s performances in 2021, with a new DC and even without our next 2 first-rounders?


    • Rob Staton

      1. I’d prefer to give it some serious thought before answering that question. I haven’t looked into it because there won’t be a change.

      2. Likewise, there won’t be a change of GM.

      3. I think they almost have to keep Carson. Look at the offense without him (this season and last).

      4. They can dramatically prove for sure. Because even being not historically bad would be an improvement.

      • Gary

        1) Joe Brady. Joe Brady. Joe Brady.

  36. Hoggs41

    This team is really missing there 1A MVP…Chris Carson

  37. RIP Sonics

    Hi Rob,
    Love your writing and always find some solace and joy reading the blog.
    My question for you looking back at the offseason now that we have seen many of the free agent pass rushers flame out is what would the better solution have been? Clowney doesn’t have a sack, Vic beasley was cut mid season, Dante Fowler has 2 sacks. Aside from a trade, I think it’s becoming more clear that the pass rush market was poor. The only thing I can see would have been going for Ngakoue or Campbell.
    The pass rush is rightfully a problem but this year seems to be making the idea of building from the backend appealing.
    Watching this team the last 3 years under norton the secondary has progressively gotten worse and players that arrived playing well have declined considerably (eg. Diggs, Tre Flowers, fingers crossed not Adams too).
    I am fearing that one of Carroll’s greatest attributes is also a weakness. He gives a long leash to allow people room to make and fix mistakes and the results have been both amazing and frustrating. I think of Kam Chancellor and how poor he was in coverage. I know I was one of those that was surprised when we gave him an extension. On the flip side, Tedric Thompson was awful and kept getting put on the field in hopes he would figure it out. Now with Norton, we are seeing more reliance on older players on defense and hesitance to let younger players with talent get snaps and make mistakes. That has never been how Pete Carroll has coached until Norton took over. I think the reaction to Tre Flowers pass interference calls may be why he has become less physical and aggressive at the line of scrimmage and giving more room in coverage. Remember the days where Brandon Browner (less athletic that flowers) would jab someone in the chest before trailing them down the sideline? We gave up big plays occasionally but the overall outcome was positive. The physicality was encouraged and you would take the penalties that came with it. Along those lines, why isn’t Ryan Neal being put in at corner? Or shifting Jamal Adams to LB with Neal at S. Neal has been tight in coverage and has flashed a skill set that could suit a cover 3 corner. The leash has not been extended to young players who have showed promise on the defense like in years past. Hence the Marquis Blair debacle last year sitting behind Delano Hill and Tedric. Now this year with Alton Robinson sitting and Dunbar going out with a bum knee rather than taking the opportunity to give snaps to a younger player.
    The other area where this has become a weakness is with the coaching staff. Carroll took the blame for Bevell often when play calling was clearly a problem. He also backed Tom Cable when things were going south. Removing those two along with the development of Russell has largely fixed those issues. The O-line is deeper than it has ever been under Carroll and the offense was on record pace prior to Sunday’s debacle.
    This is what gives me confidence that removing Pete Carroll is not the answer. Removing Ken Norton is. The leash has been long for enough time to know that he isn’t capable of correcting the mistakes and the people he is putting on the field are not developing. We also have seen that changing defensive coordinators even when this is Pete’s Defense has changed the way we play. The dramatic improvement we have seen in other units following the replacement of coordinators is evidence that these problems can be fixed and it is not just Pete. That being said, the Carroll tree hasn’t yielded those results.
    A fresh set of eyes at coordinator would not only give more ideas for fixing an atrocious unit, but also bring more out of older player like Bobby who appear to be shrugging blame to other units on the defense. The pass rush is an easy place to lay blame but the defensive unit as a whole outside of Poona Ford, KJ Wright, and Ryan Neal has underwhelmed. There is talent on this defense, it just appear to be playing on a leash (cushion coverage, contain pass rush without stunts, soft attack on the ball in flight).
    The solution I would love?
    Get a defensive coordinator who has a D-line background or experience guarding spread offenses in the college game. Consider every offer you receive for defensive players (including Wagner and Adams) to accumulate picks. Build the secondary around Blair, Ugo, Neal, and Adams if he can come to a team friendly deal. I like Alexander and he could end up being a useful player for the future. Shaq griffin is good but yet to be determined if he is worth a second contract. Go out and draft athletic smart football players to challenge for spots in the secondary and linebacking core. Go sign accomplished players on the D-line who you can get on short deals to help develop the young talent we have accumulated and shore up the run defense. Dunbar and Snacks should stay. Let Poona, Mone, Darrell Taylor, and Alton Robinson develop. Trade for elite talent or find bargain pash rushers (elite rushers don’t often make it to free agency). If a position battle is close, play the younger guy with more club control and allow for growing pains. No perfect solution but when you are paying a premium for crap performance, taking a higher upside bargain can’t be much worse.
    For the short term? Demote or fire norton. Pass the reigns to Clint Hurtt or Kris Richard. At this point the disruption may be more positive than negative. Give Ugo a chance at free safety (Diggs hasn’t made a play over the top or on the sideline in weeks), Ryan Neal at corner opposite Shaq when he comes back. Alexander at Nickel. Put brooks on the field more to spell bobby at times and light a fire, especially in nickel formation. The D-line? Poona and Reed play 60% rotating with Snacks and Mone when healthy. Alton robinson needs to play over 50% of the snaps until Mayowa is back. At least with young guys on the field more you can hope for improvement.

    Sorry for the lengthy post. You are appreciated not just for your writing but in this case a forum to rant…
    Thanks Rob

    • Rob Staton

      My question for you looking back at the offseason now that we have seen many of the free agent pass rushers flame out is what would the better solution have been?

      In fairness I’ve answered this a few times. Several free agent DE’s or available players are among the top-30 sackers in the NFL. I wanted Calais Campbell as a priority and an EDGE. And for all the talk of players flaming out… both Clowney and Quinn have good PFF grades. They didn’t need Myles Garrett they just needed someone who could rush the edge properly. Those options were available.

      • CaptainJack

        Emmanuel Ogbah for Miami and Leonard Floyd for la have both been great

      • Sea Mode

        Something inside me, just for a split second, makes me wonder if the Browns would have at least thought about it for half a second if we had offered them two R1, a R3, and a player for Garrett. (I get that they were never trading him, just saying that’s the type of haul you would expect for a premier pass rusher in his prime who fits your scheme and biggest team need perfectly)

  38. JLemere

    Let the sky fall… When it crumbles…

  39. C Dub

    Good article.

    I’m probably the most upset about the Jamal Adams trade. 2 first round picks (and a 3rd rounder) for a blitzing safety. Uhhhh, what?

    Totally hamstrings the team for years. Not to mention the cap space and what to do with him when he’s on the field. Desperation move. Ugh. I’ve never seen a defense that was this easy to move the ball against.

  40. CaptainJack

    Spot on. Major coaching / leadership change ups need to be made. The ownership isn’t invested right now to make those changes. Nothing to do for the next few years but wait it out I guess.

  41. Big Mike

    I happened to be in the car at 9:00 Pacific time this morning when Cowherd’s show came on. His lead talking point was the Seahawks. He obviously did this in part to stand up for his friend Russ and he did say “blame Wilson if you want” but many of the points he made were exactly what Rob and several other posters have said in the last 16 hours and well before that. He stated the Seahawks would likely not win a game without Russ (I agree). That Adams is a “nice player” but the price was incredibly steep and he is a safety and thus limited in the impact he can have. He said the drafting has been poor and gave a couple of examples (Penney, Brooks). More interestingly he said he talked to 2 different GMs with “loaded rosters” and both mentioned they had no idea what Seattle was doing on draft day. Very telling imo.

    He also mentioned that the o-line has only one quality starter in Brown (he’s wrong there, Lewis makes at least 2) and that the defense as a whole is terrible with only 2 quality players mentioning Adams and I’ll presume Bobby as the other. He played back an interview with Bucky Brooks abut the cover 3 who said the league has adjusted to it and in so many words said it worked back in the LOB days because of superior talent and its newness.

    He was totally wrong about one thing though, Special Teams which he mentioned as being a problem. Those of us regular fans know that’s simply not the case this year. They have been nothing short of incredible. They have literally had one bad play all season, a mid-field kickoff return given up to Buffalo. Well he also said Hekker was the best punter in the NFL and while I think he’s excellent, Dickson is having a better year but that’s a small quibble.

    It may be worth seeking out on Youtube for a listen or if you’d like Rob, embeddding the segment here.

    • Rob Staton

      • Big Mike

        Thanks man. I really feel like it’s well worth a listen.

    • TJ

      We have all wondered what Seattle was doing on draft day. I hate to say this, but the past few years have reminded me of the painful Tim Ruskell-era drafts. Draft day ends and we scratch our heads…. “they passed on ______ to pick who?”

      This roster needs an overhaul, as does the coaching staff. They need to be as active with trades, cuts, signings, and drafting as they were when this regime first took over in 2010. Unfortunately, they have little draft capital and aging players on bloated contracts.

  42. SteveLargent80

    Again with the horrendous phrasing of the questions. “Do you feel you are getting better?”. NO, NO, NO.

    Ask him about how bad the 3rd down defense was, and what he wants to do to improve

    • Rob Staton

      “Are you going to challenge a ball spot again”

      Really getting to the big issues today.

  43. Aaron

    My only wish as we enter this holiday season, other than something to hope for about the world in regards to getting over this awful virus, is the local sports media growing a pair and doing their jobs. It’s time for a thorough and honest all out accountability onslaught on this team, it’s coaches, and players. Time to take off the gloves, strip the veneer off this team, tear down the potemkin village facade. I hope more fans implore 710, 950, local newspapers, beat writers, and even the propaganda machine that is the official Hawks media to hold everyone’s feet to the fire. In the words of Shia LaBeouf “Just do it!”

  44. Henry Taylor

    In the spirit of saying something nice, not that they deserve it, but sometimes it’s nice to say nice things.

    Poona Ford has really elevated his game recently, might be the only non-rookie player worth keeping on the defense.

  45. cha

    Pete Carroll Show Interview

    [q] Uncharacteristic game, turnovers? “Have to execute and make right choices and decisions. Pull it together. Too easy for opponent when you give up the football.”

    [q] What do you tell RW with turnovers? “Talked about it, have the chance to run, take it. See what’s in front of you and go for it. Be decisive. Second thought, maybe I can get something else done, that’s trouble. Support the heck out of his ability to function. Over the long haul, he’ll make right decisions. In that moment, wrong decision.”

    [q] Defend Screens? “Worked hard at it, they made a couple and we stopped. We work hard at it.”

    [q] What allowed Defense to get stopped? “Did have to adjust some stuff. Errors where we didn’t execute properly, got out of position. Good teams take adv of our mistakes. Clean some stuff up. Sometimes we missed it and they made some plays on it.”

    [q] 4th and inches, challenge, why with a bad D? “If you don’t convert, like a fumble that gave them the ball. That early in a 10pt game, didn’t feel like we had to be desperate. Didn’t want to give opportunity. Because we didn’t go for it, doesn’t mean they would have scored on the next drive. I have to go against my nature in that sense, I’ve gone for it many times. Defense should have made it work, just didn’t happen.”

    [q] Going forward change approach? “No means we need to play better D, that’s all.”

    [q] Fixed Buffalo issues with D alignment? “Dunbar playing banged up, last week. Misread play on 31 yard play, really fundamental play. Seeing the play, frustrating to me, could have made a play on the ball if we read it right.”

    [q] Miss Chris Carson? Back Thursday? “Not had same mix, same threat. Doesn’t feel the same. Went with Alex on first and second downs try to get back into that. Still didn’t feel the same. Can’t just rely on throwing game because they don’t’ have to respect the ground game. We play best.”

    [q] Availability? “Can’t tell you. 4 days make a difference? We’ll see.”

    [q] Griffin/Dunbar Thursday? “Can’t tell you. Out there working out right now.”

    [q] DK no targets in first half? Ramsey? “Number of times we called stuff, LB in the way, read took us elsewhere. Called his number, ball just didn’t get there. Happens.”

    [q] 5-0 now 1-3 rally team? “Control things we can. Take care of ball first. Play good solid FB. Not making mistakes in penalties. Doing good things, not executing way we need to. Find consistency and hoping that’s enough. Offenses are rippin. Cardinals tore Buffalo, made some big plays. Plays need to come to us because we’re playing right. Errors get us out of synch. Play better ball. Lot of games left, continuity. A lot of guys out. Plenty of time, gotta get going.”

    [q] Defensive improvement on 3rd down? “Lost 3 of 4 short yardage. Need to win a couple of those. Have to get wins 1on1. Beat on huge 3rd down. Reasons we should win there. Pile up wins. Aggressive way of playing is helping us.”

    [q] Pass rush? “Aggressive, playing hard up front. Adams got 2, played with one arm yesterday, fantastic job playing. Sack with off hand. Remarkable game under the circumstances. Last 3 weeks sacks, turning a corner there. Important this week. Consistent w pressure, keep him from making big plays.”

    [q] RW takes care of ball, coach into him or natural? “Good decision maker but bought into our philosophy. Out of character run here, last 3 weeks. Nature to do right, and do what you’re supposed to. Letting things happen, take care of ball first.”

    [q] Coach guys out of character play? “Spend time together, talking through what took place and why, get to the truth of it. Get to essence of what happened, make decisions going forward. Remind him he is a great player, does make great decisions.”

    [q] Trying too hard? “Point where you can feel ‘if I don’t do something here, it doesn’t happen’ where overtrying takes place. Changes the way you perform. Big big deal is staying within yourself. Continue to help Russ and everybody with it. He can fall prey to it too. Will come back and be great.”

    [q] Decisions, throwing away? “Always on that topic. When to/when not to. Great majority time, RW makes good decisions. Make sure he’s not feeling too much burden. Issue for all performers. He’ll get back on track.”

    [q] Metcalf open, RW missed him? “Couple, depends on where read takes us. Not looking for DK every snap. Good guy on him, threw some coverage at him too. Open a couple times though.”

    [q] pregame change to start offense quick? “No. Guys game out played good sharp FB.”

    [q] What team learn about themselves in rough stretch? “Take a look inside, make sure doing things allowing you to be successful. Talked to guys after game about believe. Think ‘oh poor me’ instead of thinking about other guys. Get self absorbed you can get away from it. Battle against it. We’re right there at the top of the division.”

    [q] Mood of team? “Accepted it. In line where they should be. loyal group, true to each other. Frustrated, you’re too, keep asking frustrating questions for your fans because they’re frustrated. Not letting noise that comes from outside get in the way.”

    [q] Injuries, Pocic, Adams? “Can’t tell you, Ethan doesn’t know yet. Gonna be a hurry. Adams gotta be sore. Sore last night. If he can play, he will.”

    [q] Fuller, high ankle sprain early or late? “I think 2nd Q.”
    [q] Roster changes then? “Always have to look at it.”

    [q] Challenge ball spot? “I know they don’t usually overturn. See official clearly, didn’t come out way we thought. Worth it to challenge. Disappointed when they have to make us use a challenge. DK low ball call, waste it to get it done.”

    [q] Arizona game rally 12s? “We’ll feel it”
    [q] Hopkins bomb? “Incredible catch, special way to win a game.”

    • Rob Staton

      Is it me or does the word ‘uncharacteristic’ get mentioned too often for anything with this team to be ‘uncharacteristic’?

      • cha

        That and ‘believe.’

        Just listening to PC’s press remarks this year, I can get why some players started tuning him out.

        • Gary

          It’s not just this year cha – I long ago tuned out the used car salesman blather that comes from Always Com-Pete.

      • Malc from PO

        Add “need to execute” to that list. As I said after last week’s analogous conference, that shows arrogance on the coach’s part. “The scheme is great, the players just didn’t carry it out properly.” They need someone to realize that maybe the scheme is flawed, that opponents have figured out how to beat our defense and offense, and we need to come up with something that the current players CAN execute. Players don’t suddenly become bad, but they can be used in a way that makes them fail. What works in the past can be superceded – that’s the nature of football, and (should be) what every coach and coordinator is working on: how do we adapt to what their team is doing, and how do we present something that their team will not know how to deal with. Trotting out a scheme that everyone has figured out how to beat is not going to work, no matter how well the players do it.

      • no frickin clue

        sort of like this?

  46. Hoggs41

    I have to say that Danny O’Neil and Paul Gallant bug the crap out of me. I just hate the way they do the Monday interview.

  47. DC

    [q] What team learn about themselves in rough stretch? “Take a look inside, make sure doing things allowing you to be successful. Talked to guys after game about believe. Think ‘oh poor me’ instead of thinking about other guys. Get self absorbed you can get away from it. Battle against it. We’re right there at the top of the division.”

    Sure looked like ‘oh poor me’ on the field with everyone’s body language, including Pete’s.

    • Sea Mode

      “Talked to guys after game about believe.”

      But the problem is the players aren’t executing, so I talked about belief…

  48. Chris

    To me, the problem is mainly Schneider.

    For whatever reason this team has consistently over-valued replacement level players in their salary cap, over-valued certain positions such as safety and linebacker to the detriment of other positions, and drastically under-valued their high draft picks. To this day I am unconvinced he knows how to accurately measure the opportunity cost of his decisions.

    These are structural problems in planning, modeling, and statistical analysis, all of which Schneider oversees.

    Now it may be that Carroll has been the brainchild behind the truly idiotic trades for Harvin and Adams (which I drastically opposed the second they happened, and not because of the quality of the players themselves). If this is the case, then Carroll should lose his position as the final decision-maker and go to a more traditional model in which the GM has final say (and Schneider would need to have the backbone to use it as well). Regardless, there still remains the poor use of salary cap and position prioritization that’s been a problem with this organization almost since the beginning (which was previously overcome with impossible to replicate drafting jackpots).

    When a team is drafting a Richard Sherman, a Russel Wilson, a Bobby Wagner, an Earl Thomas, etc, these inefficiencies can be ignored, but that time has passed. They either need to begin figuring out how to make the most efficient use of the dozens of little decisions that their models consistently screw up, or its time for new decision-makers that can.

    • dcd2

      Agree with this. Draft picks, trades and FA have all been baffling for years.

      In the last five years, we have drafted arguably zero difference makers on defense.

      The allocation of $50M this year was terrible and the Jamal trade was robbery even before we realized that we didn’t know what to do with him.

      We’re going to be heading into the future with a defense that has a few unproven guys still on their rookie deals, along with underperforming, expensive and aging vets. Everyone else is in a walk year. We also have very limited draft capital with which to address these issues.

      • Chris

        Good point about Adams. It’s interesting that our three biggest recent trades: Graham, Adams, and Harvin were all for players that we seemingly didn’t know how to use once acquired.

  49. Big Mike

    Matt said above:
    “Honestly…and I hate saying this, I think it’s more realistic that Russell forces a trade out of Seattle. That might seem crazy, but he’s in his 30s – he’s not going to waste time on a second rebuild. If status quo is maintained through March of 2021 – don’t be surprised if chatter starts increasing about RW wanting out.”

    I believe this is possible as well. Think he doesn’t look at Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, etc. and wonder what it would be like to play for a quality offensive minded HC?

    • Matt

      I sincerely think this is the most likely “change,” if anything happens. They won’t can Pete. Pete’s hubris is unparalleled. They have no cap space or draft capital.

      Would anyone blame Russell? He’s 32 this month…he’s got what…3 or 4 years left of playing at the highest level he can play? And he’s in the toughest division in football with a team that you could make a serious case, is the 4th best in it’s own conference (when looked at holistically).

      I don’t know how it’d work, but I think a place like New Orleans is the most interesting partner…the problem, of course is, what would we do about the QB position? You’d have to get a 3rd team involved.

  50. Lewis

    It’s interesting. If we believe that they intend to sell at some point in the relatively near term (next few years), then a collapse is not going to help drive the price up.

  51. James Z

    A bit off topic, so if you decide not to post this, that’s OK with me… That trolling by Sunvil yesterday was just brutal. It was like following the rantings of a 15 year-old on crystal meth. It was interesting to get a view at the crap you have to deal with to do your blog, but, WOW! Whoever he is, I hope his parents limit his internet usage; it’s a stark portrayal of the truly dark side of the internet. Toxic to the core…

    Now on to your current assessment: You’re 100% right!

  52. Silly Billy

    Chris Carson for MVP. We are 5-0 with him and 1-3 without. Nearly 5 yards a carry this year.

    The defense did their job on Sunday. They gave up only 23 Pts and gifted the O the ball in the rezone. This was not on them.

    Sure, we are too reliant on Russ. But, Russ himself relies on a functioning run game, which has been missing since Carson went out against AZ. Our QB can’t play one dimensional football all game, especially against the 2nd rank defense with Arron Donald and CB who match up against our WR on the field. This has been true since the Beast Mode days, even as Russ has improved his game. Counter to the “Let Russ cook” crowd, Pete has always been right about a balanced attack and a functioning running game.

    This is an obvious rough patch. Maybe I’m just tired of all this “gloom and doom” shit (screw 2020), but I think we are going to be fine. This season (like 2019) will live and die on the legs of Chris Carson and company, and they’ll all be back soon enough.

    • Rob Staton

      “The defense did their job on Sunday. They gave up only 23 Pts and gifted the O the ball in the rezone. This was not on them.”

      They gave up 240 yards and 17 points on the first three drives, piling the pressure on the offense.

      They didn’t do their job. If there was any pressure on the Rams at all, I suspect they would’ve gone up through the gears. They never felt under any pressure to score in the second half after they got a long, predictable scoring drive on their first attempt.

      • Silly Billy

        Piling up the pressure to score 10Pts with 6:22 left in the 3rd qtr?
        For what we have, the D did their job.

        • Rob Staton

          Did you miss the bit where I said they gave up 240 yards and 17 points on the first three drives?

          If you can’t recognise how that could impact the offense and the panic/urgency they’re feeling, fresh off last week, I can’t help you.

          • Pugs1

            While I agree with you Rob 17 points on the first three drives along with past performances has impacted Russ and the O’s mindset. The Russ pick across his body when he had a easy 15 to 20 yards in front of him did serious damage to their chances of winning. The D that was struggling just made a huge play to get the ball back and a boneheaded pick sucked the air out of the entire team.

            • Rob Staton

              Of course, they were stupid plays.

              I’m just trying to explain why Russell is making so many stupid plays this season.

  53. Leo Pallanck

    You hit on something in this article that I’ve been wondering for awhile. I seem to remember John Schneider or Pete Carroll mentioning several years back that they knew Paul Allen was going to ask tough questions whenever they wanted to make a big move. They way they described that almost sounded like they found the prospect of rationalizing their decision with Allen a bit unnerving. I really question whether they are holding themselves to the same standard now that Paul Allen is gone. This team is starting to feel a lot like the team that Carroll and Schneider inherited, except that we lack the two first round picks that they had to work with, and we are stuck with a coaching staff and GM that are now the 4th best in the NFC west.

  54. Rushless pass

    Should the hawks give deandre baker a shot?

    • Hoggs41

      With the uncertainty at corner it makes sense. Im sure there would be a bunch of teams interested though.

    • Scot04

      Yes, and if you’re him you would see our corners and figure you would have a good chance at starting if in shape.

    • Jordan E

      Absolutely. Back in the old days we had something called always compete. The corners need improvement. At least bring the guy in for a try out.

    • BOHICA

      Yes, absolutely. Bring him and Eli Apple in and give yourself a fighters chance at at cornerback. They can’t be any worse than what our current CB situation has been reduced to.

  55. cha

    Grading my Watch Points

    Russ must play like an MVP.
    Grade: D

    One of Russ’ worst games as a pro, and the most worrisome point might be he didn’t bounce back after a horrible game against Buffalo. He actually kept the same pattern of play as the Buffalo game.

    What I wrote in the preview is the exact opposite of what Russ did:

    Get DK going early. In the first series, find him matched with Jalen Ramsey and run a quick throw at the LOS and let DK stiff arm him to the ground to give Ramsey a taste of what’s coming. Then send him deep. Find Tyler running across the field. Roll out and away from Aaron Donald. If you’re in the pocket, your head clock should be a tick faster than it currently is. If there’s a lane to run that is open, don’t hesitate. Take the 6 yards.

    Russ wasn’t aggressive in the least. He was tentative, shaky, and made terrible decisions.

    Uncharacteristic interceptions, an incomprehensible delay of game penalty on 3rd and 4, and several times going into a crouch when a blue jersey was in sight. In regards to DK, the game plan may have called for a standard complement of throws to DK, but Russ was so spooked he stopped looking downfield. But even then, he only targeted the TEs when absolutely forced to.

    The INT called back because RW caught the defense offside was a microcosm of Russ’ day. He caught the Rams offside, had a free play and threw a very rushed, uncoordinated pass that was easily intercepted. Russ had no focus on that throw. It was wild and sloppy. MVPs catch the defense sleeping and burn them. Russ did the opposite.

    As good as he is, he just has never been able to put the team on his back and will them to a victory.

    The Seahawks must start quickly. Score early, score often.
    Grade: D+

    It is confusing why the Seahawks don’t choose to take the kickoff and put the ball into the hands of their offense first. The entire game turns if they can get a 10-0 or a 14-0 lead. Particularly when you consider the Rams are incredibly stingy in the second half of the game. They were contending at 17-10, but the RW gaffe INT cost them at least 3 points.

    And the PC reasoning on the 4th and inches early in the 3rd Q cost them some more aggression. PC said he didn’t want to be desperate that early in the game. Well now you’re 1-3 and scratching for answers. Maybe some desperation is called for at times.

    I discussed the Rams’ game concept in the Watch Points: Score early, lead at halftime and let your defense go to work and close out the game. Their “sacks when ahead” stats are insane, and it was true to plan this week as RW was sacked 5 times in the second half.

    They must find a way to defend the fly sweep – particularly early.
    Grade: C-

    10+ pass yard plays first half: 8. Second half: 2
    7+ rush yard plays first half: 4, Second half: 1

    They must pressure Goff 10 times.
    Grade: C-

    I don’t have the pressures, but they sacked Goff 3 times and all 3 ended up killing a drive. That’s the good news. The bad news is Goff sure didn’t appear to be scrambling much and he didn’t make any major mistakes.

  56. McZ

    People like that Sunil dude are selling the Rams game as “held them to 23 points”.

    The Rams were the better team, by far, for the whole game, and stopped passing mid 3rd quarter, bringing the game home, taking zero risk. This is how intelligent 2020 football works.

    And then you review the crucial situations, the face and hands of Russell Wilson after that last pick… it was the body language of a player not having any words for what he saw and did on the field. He basically folded, because he needs to play like every down is the last drive.

    So, the franchise has to take a seat next offseason and needs to evaluate, if a major rebuild is required. And I think, it is due diligence for the FO to ask Russ if he wants to have another shot at a title, instead of limping home this sorry state of his career.

    We need a new head coach, a new scouting staff, not so much a new GM who translates expertise into picks. We need to pick quality players for two or three seasons, then get our new franchise QB and rise again. The NFL is full of those stories, and we can pull another one.

    In the meantime, let’s root for this fantastic QB class of 2020.

    • ScottS

      Acting like holding the Rams to 23 points and supposedly being in the game is nothing more than wishful thinking. The Rams did to the Seahawks what the Seahawks used to be known for. Completely beating a team up yet win a game by a margin that doesn’t tell the whole story. Seahawks fans used to shout that from the hilltops whenever someone claimed they were not blowing enough people out, but now it’s interesting to watch a fanbase completely contradict its own own long held narrative.

      • SeattleLifer

        Absolutely agree McZ and ScottS. The Rams had us all game and the score was not indicative of how said game went. McVay played intelligent calculated football to get his team the win.

  57. Matt

    After listening to that Pete interview…nothing is changing. He’s going to go down with the ship and claim to have not seen the ice berg nor is the ship taking on water.

    Imagine eeking into a 7th seed in the NFC, with our schedule when one side of the ball has:

    Elite QB
    Great RB
    Elite WR
    Great WR
    Elite LT

    Good TE Group
    Great OG
    Good RT

    Seriously…think about how shitty of a job you have to do everywhere else to get a 7th seed with just those 5 top guys, alone?

    Listen…I love when people have conviction; but at some point – the Seahawks turned into the Curse of Oak Island. There’s no treasure there. Keep digging in the same spot and come up empty handed. The end of each episode, where you are left hanging is tantamount to sneaking into the playoffs every year only to not be a real threat. Dumb analogy…but I kind of love it.

    This is fool’s gold.

    • Big Mike

      Great post and I liked the analogy. There’s a reason I never watched the show cuz O knew they weren’t gonna find shit. Maybe I ought to just not watch Seattle cuz I know they ain’t gonns find a Super Bowl trophy with Punt Carroll in charge.
      In all seriousness, if I have anything else fun available to do or any other sporting event (Gonzaga hoops!!) on opposite the Hawks game that’s what I’ll be doing. I haven’t said that since the Mora year.

  58. Magmatizer

    The team needs all the help they can get at this point, and taking a look at Baker is at least worthwhile. Also, Vic Beasley ended up clearing waivers. Make a move, Hawks!

    • BOHICA

      Exactly, no harm in bringing a guy in for a workout. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Kick the tires on Beasley and consider the addition of Eli Apple, even if just to add depth to the mess of a situation they have going on amongst the DB group.

  59. BobbyK

    One of the most depressing things in this whole situation is that “rebuilding” usually requires draft picks to get younger/cheaper/more hungry.

    These clowns traded all their good picks away the next few years to sell out for NOW. But, wtf, this is the “NOW” we sold out for?

    • Big Mike

      And therein lies hopeless rock and a hard place they’ve put themselves into.

      • BobbyK

        So sad.

  60. Ulsterman

    As Pete isn’t going anywhere, the only hope next year is he can swallow his pride and do a complete revamp of the coaching staff.
    Evaluate who has actually done their job properly and get rid of the rest. Have a competitive process to get the best available coordinators and position coaches. No more appointments based on nepotism, no more yes men, get people with fresh ideas and give them control to do their jobs.
    Schneider’s job also needs to be looked at.
    Sadly I think Carroll’s too stubborn to do this. I’ve seen it happen to successful coaches in too many sports who failed to adapt. Arsene Wenger at Arsenal was mentioned earlier, another example is former Ireland rugby coach Joe Schmidt – great for several years, but then key players started to regress and other teams started to figure out how to beat them, but he wouldn’t change their style of play. At the end there was the distinct impression the players wanted him gone.

  61. KnightHawk

    Seahawks have no choice but to get Baker, they don’t have enough draft picks next year. Also if someone else gets Baker and Seahawk fans see Baker playing in another uniform they will loose their @#!…¥ There’s no way Pete can stand up there giving excuses as the Hawks go from 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-6, 6-7……. It’s too early in the Season to fall apart. Winning organizations are worth more than losing organizations, there’s no way all those employees working for Seattle are going to watch their investments go up in smoke. Jody Allen may not give a crap because she’s a billionaire but all those employees working their asses off are going to revolt. They have to find a way to win or the whole thing is going up in smoke!

    • Rob Staton

      It’s a rare opportunity to bring in a first round talent with 32 inch arms.

      • Scot04

        Plus he plays press corner well. No more watching Dunbar and his 10 yard cushions

  62. Simo

    Unfortunately I think you’re spot on with this piece Rob! And I say “unfortunately” because I don’t want to believe this might be the beginning of the end of the most successful stretch eve of Seahawks football.

    However, change is definitely needed now as it seems that Pete’s good ole boy style of hiring his buddies and kids just isn’t working. Also, Pete and John’s drafting style of going against the norm just doesn’t seem to be working anymore. All of that success using their own approach from 2012-2015 seems like so long ago now, and they have failed to match it in recent years.

    I also agree though that Pete isn’t going anywhere, and if that’s the case then neither is his way of doing things. We are most likely stuck with the status quo for the next several years. I hope I’m wrong, and I hope you’re wrong as well. We’ll see!

  63. Cysco

    Do we have any real insight into the personnel decision making process behind the scenes? How much responsibility for this mess lands on John Schneider’s shoulders? Or, do all these terrible decisions land squarely on Carroll?

    We’re at serious risk of becoming a 5-6 win team with no way to benefit from poor performance due to the Adams trade. It’s not unrealistic to think that we may have traded away two top-10 draft picks.

    At this rate we will be where the Cardinals and 49rs were 2-4 years ago, only we won’t be able to benefit from the poor performance. We don’t seem to have the visionary people in the front office to formulate the plan to get us out of it.

    As Seahawks fans, I think we all need to buckle up and prepare ourselves for some pretty dark times ahead of us.

    • GoHawksDani

      It’s on both…
      If Schneider decides then it’s his faults.
      If Carroll decides then why the hell do they employ Schneider as GM? 😀

      I doubt Schneider would decide without talking to PC. So I think PC can veto player decisions and probably can ask JS to make something happen

  64. cha

    Work call set for the same time as the Monday Press Conf, I’ll post later when the video comes up.

    • Rob Staton

      I’ve already looked into my crystal ball and seen what the questions are:

      ‘Pete, you’ve talked about this twice already… but about that decision to punt at the start of the second half…’

      ‘Pete, just how impressive is Alex Collins’

      ‘Pete, what’t the injury status of (insert name of one of 14 players here)’

      ‘Pete, you’ve already been asked this twice but do you miss Chris Carson?’

      ‘Pete, just how good was Jason Myers?’

      ‘Pete, covid covid, election, social justice, covid, election, blah’

      • cha

        Over/under on how many times Pete uses these words

        Uncharacteristic: 4

        Believe: 7

        Execute: 10

        • Denver Hawker

          “Get Better” – 10

      • Aaron

        You nailed it Rob…hahaha…*cries internally

  65. SeattleLifer

    Rob that was an extremely well thought out and written article that touched on just about every important topic that this franchise is and soon will be facing. And as usual ahead of the curve (even if you catch the typical flak for having the vision and vitriol to see things ahead of time and bring them to light). Well done sir.

    • Rob Staton

      Thank you, I appreciate you saying that. I second guessed posting this article because I wasn’t sure how it would come across.

      • SeattleLifer

        I get your trepidation, between the rawness of things with the team caving in and the more over arching psyche of the average fan wanting to hold onto Pete/the regime in such high esteem – you could be inviting plenty more misguided frustration and anger your way. But I applaud your resolve and implore you to hold to what you believe as being the informed truth. And being the good fellow you seem to be you’ve made it abundantly clear that you wish that you weren’t having to write these kind of articles and even hope that you could offer this one in repentance if Pete were to prove you wrong. Very commendable sir, so keep up the excellent (and inspired) work and know it is appreciated for the time and effort, the great knowledge, insight, and information and the excellent writing.

        • KennyBadger

          Well said Lifer!

          Let’s hope there’s an emotional letdown by the Cardinals Thursday. I think Russell will deliver an MVP performance, will it be enough? Uff da.

        • Gary

          Rob, I can’t say it any better than SeattleLifer, but just know that he speaks for so many of us who seldom post but read your work every day for the informed perspectives, well-reasoned arguments, and exceptional writing. Thank you sir.

          • Rob Staton

            Thanks Gary

  66. Denver Hawker

    Why does it feel like this entire season is riding on Thursdays game?

    Both teams are trending opposite directions, a loss by the Hawks all but ensures no home game in the playoffs and an early exit. The remaining schedule looked soft to start the season, but right now I do t trust this team to beat the NFC East teams.

    However, a win Thursday and confidence rolling to the rest of the schedule while getting healthier could easily pencil 11-12 wins.

    • Rob Staton

      I think you’re right.

      If they fall to 1-3 in the division, 6-4 overall and 1-4 in the last five that would be a crisis for this team IMO.

      They have to win. If they don’t, that’ll be a long 10 or so days until Philly to stew on the state of this franchise.

      I fear for this game. Arizona are walking on water. The Seahawks appear lost.

    • AlaskaHawk

      This Arizona game snuck up on me, we just played them!!!!! Murray is fast on his feet and a good passer. They have good receivers and two lockdown corners. I’m not liking the odds.

      Looking at the schedule the Seahawks could lose to Arizona, LA , and one of Philly or NY Giants. So I guess I”m predicting 3 wins from here on out.

      • KnightHawk

        No way they have to go 4-0, no excuses except for the Rams game. When they play the Rams if they have more injuries than the other day they would have an excuse even though it’s a must win game. They should beat AZ Thursday no excuses! Philly will be tuff but they have the advantage, Seattle must win games that they have the advantage. RW is not as good as everyone thinks & the problem with that is RW believes the BS. The offense needs to get back to basics & run the football, use Moore & DK to physically beat up CB’s in the run game. Alex Collins & the Miami guys are good enough to get it done, RW needs to run too. They have to simplify the game for RW & the Offensive Coordinator!

  67. SpringsCoHawk

    Rob, thank you for all your investment and honest evaluation in the Seahawks. I agree with your blunt commentary.

    The only thing that gives a little hope is that a healthy Chris Carson could help our team get back to old identify of being a smash you in the face which could help bleed over onto defensive side.

    A healthy Chris Carson is never a given however. I am also not sure that our current offensive line can establish run game this year, based upon a variety of reasons….limited offseason, new players, injuries.

    At this point I almost refuse to watch a Seahawk game until they get a healthy Chris Carson back and a healthy S Griffen.

    • Rob Staton

      Sadly with big Chris, his health is going to be a permanent question mark.

  68. Frank

    I’ve always seen the comparison to Jimmy Johnson career, looking at Carroll at least with Pete’s second stint in the NFL. Maybe not the best x and I guys, but they came with supreme draft knowledge their first few years after running highly successful college programs and after that didn’t necessarily have an X factor over the competition. It feels a lot like they’ve become to entrenched in there own dogma and are desperately trying to recreate the 2013 defense and it’s just not working. The league has changed a lot since then, and while the offensive has shown positive movement on average to resist becoming antiquated, the defensive just hasn’t. It really is a shame the defensive coaching on this team isn’t better, bot only for the hopes of this season, but it’s so bad it’s nearly impossible to evaluate the talent on the team. I’d really hope replacing Norton was enough, as Pete is as likable as it’s possible to be, JS has had a long history of success from Green Bay to here and feel he’s do for a big hit year, maybe Pete should be a little less involved in the draft process as well. Funny enough Wilson and Hasslebeck remind me of each other a good bit, both good to great QB who where at their best when handing a smaller load. Of course Hasellbeck would slice and dice you with short passes, while Russ is the mad bomber. They both occasionally just have absolutely horrible performance, regardless of being top 5-10 QBs in the league.

  69. Rokas

    Baldy’s breakdown of Ramsey v DK.

    It seems that we have to give props to Ramsey. Still inexcusable not to try to get DK more involved in a quick passing game, but these shots were not there most of the time.

    • KnightHawk

      Like RW DK is not as good as everyone thinks! DK may become the best WR in the league but he’s not right now, Ramsey proved it! Ramsey is not a super star cover CB either. DK needs to pound Ramsey in the run game, DK needs to pound everyone in the run game, use what we know he has a physical advantage over CB’s, once their beat up then throw the ball to DK. DK & Moore should start the game wearing boxing gloves, take them off on the last drive 2nd quarter.

      • CaptainJack

        I’d still consider Jalen Ramsey a “superstar”

      • Gohawks5151

        He may not be but he had the superstar effect. The still kept the safety over top of DK at times and opened things for others. Tyler had a long gain on a wheel behind DK and if Russ hits Dissly early that is a TD on the same play. Use that more. Fake a bubble to him and slip Tyler or moore out. Also just throw him a bubble. Steal any play Shanahan runs for Deebo Samuel. DK will make it work

      • GoHawksDani

        1, Ramsey is a top CB
        2, Who do you consider as ‘superstar’ CB then? Gilmore? DK burned him

        Ramsey played a heck of a game. Lining up deep enough to not get beat deep but not as deep so it’d allow easy completions.

        And DK as a 2nd year guy is a superstar. Not as an NFL player, but as a 2nd year guy. But even as an NFL player probably top10-15 in the league

        And depending on the CB but everyone can be covered. Schotty didn’t scheme DK open.
        DK could’ve been motioned on almost every snap. Sometimes run behind Russ, or run in front of him to the other side. And you could mix in some jet sweepes, screens, and if Ramsey is not moving with him you can target him more easily. And you can also stack the WRs, etc.

        They usually put DK on an island on one side to draw the safety to that side and help the WRs on the other side. That means that DK has to win by speed or by route, the scheme usually won’t help him

  70. cha

    Monday Press conf w PC

    “They held us down offensively. Turns out being a loss on the road we really needed. WE’re all tied right now, just makes point of every game being a championship game. Kick this turnaround in the butt. Let’s go.”

    [joe fann] Russ pressing too hard? “We made some mistakes that don’t’ look normal for us. One jumps out is INT instead of taking off running.”

    [jen] Arizona blitzed got pressure, contain? “Have to do right, IDs, calls all work together. All phases. Not just guys up front. RW, receivers adjusting.”
    [jen] Offensive explosion last game, again? “Need to continue to run the football. Work for the balance. Publicity for throwing game. Expect to get back to that.”

    [corbin] Poona progress on film? “Really active. Sideline to sideline. Moving the front some. Really good athlete. Quick. Helps to get him on the move. Really good game yesterday.”

    [art] Fuller fill in how did he do? “Fine yesterday, hurt his ankle, we think he can make it back. Toughed it out. Good a job as we’ve ever done vs Aaron. Incredible player, didn’t get marks that he normally gets.”
    [art] Pass pro? 5 sacks? “Got after us pretty good as the game wore on. Couple errors we need to do better at. Outside rushing, handled inside stuff way we hoped to.”

    [Michael shawn] Shaquille hamstring? “Not clear he’s “back” yet. Couple days.”
    [ms] Dunbar IR? “Not now.”

    [ben] Tyler Lockett knee? “Knee sprain, had it checked out, discomfort but not a serious injury. Day to day.”
    [ben] C behind fuller? “jemarco Jones”

    [bob] Carson/Hyde? “Hyde go today. Chris behind Hyde, see how it goes. Trying to get back.”
    [bob] Running game? “Balance us out. Everything fits together with run.”

    [Curtis] DJ Reed and CBs filling in? “Can do better. Couple mistakes that hurt us. Survived a couple too. DJ very good. Quick, explosive. Couple rookie mistakes. Overall looked active and physical. Great on kickoff return. Nothing but positive so far.”
    [Curtis] Neko back? “Will not make it back.”

    [tim] Adams shoulder? “He says he’s playing. Played with one arm. Marvelous job getting through it. Couple plays he couldn’t make because of his arm.”
    [tim] Pocic clear protocol? “Not yet.”

    [Gregg] No Carson effect RW? “Subjective. I can feel it though. Stay balanced, feel better.”
    [Gregg] How important Hyde/Carson back? “Important. If not able gotta develop other guys. Part of the way we play. Back to balance. No choice, have to develop. I think Hyde makes it back, we’ll see. Really good play out of Collins, use him more find more ways to make sure he’s a factor.”

    [brady] Blitzing gone, evaluate, vulnerable in back? “Helped us, multiple sacks last 3 weeks. Does make you vulnerable some. Not a factor in yesterday’s game. Getting better handling it. Continue to work.”

    [Jackie] Snacks’ play? “Held his own. LIttle rusty, played behind some blocks. Filled up the middle nice.”
    [Jackie] Arizona look similar? “Similar variety they do on both sides of ball. A lot of good stuff. Aggressive on D, committed to running FB. Kyler quite effective in running. Very active.”

    [joe fann] Shaquille concussion? “I don’t have him where they told me he’s out, I think it’s taken care of. I don’t know why concussion is on there.”

    [tim] Arizona pressures unique? Blueprint for other teams? “One thing unique. Standard stuff. They had something new that worked nice for them one time.”

  71. Renaldo Moon


    Been a long-time reader, but never commented. I don’t always agree with your opinions, but they’re always thoughtful and you provide solid rationale for stances you take. I don’t really get the recent anger directed your way, so I wanted to add another counter on the positive side of the ledger.

    This is really good article that asks some tough questions. One thing I really liked during the early Carroll years was the emphasis on “Tell the Truth Monday” and accountability. I don’t really care about the public comments made by Carroll or Schneider, but I wonder if that Tell the Truth mentality is still being applied at the top of the organization. Lots of successful organizations start to think all their successes are the result of their skill or acumen and that all their failures are due to external factors. I wonder if their early successes are still blinding them to their own mistakes, tendencies, or bias.

    Good teams self-scout and this team management could definitely use it too. Who could do it and who they would listen to is an open question.

    Keep up the awesome work!

  72. DancingBuddha

    It doesnt matter how anyone felt when the reality is they gave away the ball 3 times in scoring range including an endzone pick when a rushing TD was probably there for the taking and and lost by 7. They were a play away and barring those bonehead mistakes(one after a strip sack for an instant opportunity no less) they should have won this game

    • KnightHawk

      You mean RW should have found a way to win the game! It’s RW but we need to keep it a secret & trade him. RW has got to know he’s full of crap, if he’s smart he’ll go to the Jets & go after the$$$$.

    • Rob Staton

      It matters when you start the game giving up 17 points and 240 yards in the first three drives.

      • ScottS

        Good teams often over come such deficits. This happens multiple times every season, a good team plays flat in the first half to go down by a coule scores only to adjust and take the game back in the second half. Unfortunately for us, the Seahawks are not a good team.

        • Rob Staton

          One of the dumbest aspects of the aftermath of the Rams game is the way some people have suddenly decided the ridiculous defense is now not to blame… it’s the fact that Wilson and the offense isn’t good enough.

          • ScottS

            Exactly right. There’s also the whole problem with just assuming that the Rams would have still only scored 23 if in fact the Seahawks were able to offensively get out of their own way.

  73. ThomasDoubts

    The Cowboys had to fire the beloved and iconic Tom Landry to reach new Super Bowl glories, led by Jimmy Johnson. Though Landry was a coaching legend, the team had been floundering for a number of seasons. Your analysis of the Seahawks is, as always, impeccable. I greatly enjoy this site and your podcasts, and thank you most sincerely for all your efforts.
    Virtually all my ancestors came to America from Yorkshire, mostly from the village of Dent. When the plague lifts I look forward to returning.

    • Simo

      Very good comparison to Tom Landry and those old Cowboy teams IMO. He was an icon just like Pete has become in Seattle, but he was old (like Pete) and probably very set in his way of doing things (like Pete). It’s been said and recognized already, but no question organizations need change in order to grow and reach their potential. We’re simply hanging on to the glory days of 5-8 years ago now, and it doesn’t seem likely to get back anytime soon.

  74. KnightHawk

    I believe RW is a bigger let down than Carroll. RW has no excuse, I would do whatever I can to make sure RW’s value doesn’t sink below 3 high round 1 picks & trade him next year! Even if they win the Super Bowl I would trade RW. Jets have a big problem Trevor Lawrence will not play for them, he will wisely return to Clemson for his Senior year. Jets need to win ASAP or the organization will be insolvent, they need RW, I say we trade RW to the Jets for 3 1st round picks, meaning we draft Trevor Lawrence. If Trevor Lawrence ends up in SF we’re screwed!

    • mantis

      RW has a no trade clause, unlikely he would go to the jets, it would also limit what you could get for him
      with less choices

      • KnightHawk

        He’s interested in NY a bigger market, if the Jets offer him a new contract it could change his mind!! The Jets have to do something, acquiring RW would change everything for them, they have the draft picks & can trade Sam Donald too. After watching RW last 4 games I’m convinced he will never be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, I would rather take a risk with Trevor Lawrence. Also watching Josh Allen that’s the type of guy I want in Seattle, RW is an accident waiting to happen, he’s going to get knocked out for a season.

        • Walter W Rucker


        • CaptainJack

          “Bigger market” eh I doubt this is a factor. He just wants to win…

    • mac

      what makes you guys think that Pete and John would draft Trevor and not take a project player with an interesting back story instead lol

      They rarely ever hit picks, I believe they would still probably trade back for more picks and take a chance on a 7th round pick who’s family got eaten by a pack of tigers while on a mission.

    • Rob Staton

      The Jets wouldn’t trade the rights to Trevor for ten R1’s.

      Not happening. And why the hell would Russell want to go there?

  75. CaptainJack

    I know the rams loss deflated our hopes.

    But a win over Arizona would be huge, and put us back in the mix. Seahawks shouldn’t lay down and take their ball home now. Pick up arms, fight, fight!

    • Gohawks5151

      Ebbs and flows of the season my man. Win 5 in a row and the pitch forks come down. Do it with decent function on defense, and the pitch forks go back in the shed. All that’s left is to play the games.

  76. Gary

    6-6 going into the Jets game wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

  77. All I see is 12s

    A couple years ago, I knew an extreme couponer. She was able to find such value that she was able to get most cleaning products and a lot of drinks for virtually free. However, when she didn’t have a coupon, she just couldn’t bring herself to pay full price. Almost seemed that she would rather go without based on principal.
    That same girl also had a really nice car that was definitely not paid for with coupons…
    Can’t get this thought out of my head that JS is kind of like that coupon clipper. He was once able to find exceptional value at pass rusher and several other positions in FA and the draft and now he just can’t seem to bring himself to pay full price.
    Can’t understand how PC/JS can scrimp and save as they do for positions of vital importance but then the Hawks will also blatantly overpay unnecessarily for luxury positions- Adams, Williams(when they had Shead), Irwin, Harvin, graham, lane…

  78. Matt

    Not an original thought…but the Seahawks are like 1 foot away from a 4-5 record when you think of the Vikings and Patriots game.

    Still amazed people didn’t see the signs or maybe didn’t want to acknowledge them, then.

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