Stoops: DGB will enter the draft.
— Jake Trotter (@Jake_Trotter) January 6, 2015
This is interesting.
In terms of pure talent and upside potential, Dorial Green-Beckham is off the charts. At 6-6 and 225lbs he is the prototype for a NFL #1 wide receiver. Size, length, hands and speed — Green-Beckham provides the full package. If you gave him Amari Cooper’s personality and grit, DGB would be a sure-fire top-five pick. Without question.
But he isn’t anything like Cooper. And that’s a problem.
When I wrote about Green-Beckham a month ago I kind of expected he’d return to play a season at Oklahoma. It made sense. Despite all the enticing physical potential he never put together a complete season at Missouri. As a sophomore he had 883 catches and twelve touchdowns. That’s a lot of scoring production — but he was patchy overall. He had one catch for six yards in a tight overtime defeat to South Carolina. He had two catches for 14 yards against Ole Miss. He had two catches for 22 yards against Tennessee. He only had three 100-yard games — against Kentucky, Indiana and Auburn in the SEC Championship.
He was a slow burner. A much-vaunted 5-star recruit, DGB featured as a true-freshman but always seemed to be in development at Mizzou. A self-inflicted year away from football wasn’t ideal when Gary Pinkel kicked him off the team — albeit necessary. Now he’ll head straight to the pro’s probably needing that extra year of work and game-time.
Before we even consider all the off-field trouble, it’s worth considering that he’s far from the finished article. He might share physical greatness with A.J. Green and Julio Jones — but he’s a long way off in terms of refinement, technique and production. Amari Cooper will have a chance, in the right offense, to compete for offensive rookie of the year because he’s technically adept and such a natural receiver. DGB is a natural athlete, but not necessarily a natural receiver. He will need work. And he could remain a slow burner, considering he plays a position that is notoriously difficult to master at the next level.
On the off-field stuff, here’s what I wrote in December:
In a year where the NFL has had to deal with high profile domestic abuse cases, Green-Beckham’s departure from Mizzou had a similar theme. After multiple incidents involving Marijuana (one suspension, one arrest that was later dismissed), he reportedly forced his way into an apartment and pushed a female down some stairs. He wasn’t arrested, but it was the final straw for Gary Pinkel and the Tigers.
When the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson controversies were dominating the headlines, I think we all considered what it meant for Green-Beckham. Would teams be less likely to take a chance in light of what’s happened this year? Who knows. Only today Frank Tarkenton said he didn’t think Rice and Peterson should be allowed back into the league. Green-Beckham has obvious talent but is he a problem waiting to happen?
The Seahawks in particular aren’t just dealing with a changing NFL that is under pressure to be tougher on domestic abuse. They’re dealing with a season heavily impacted by a problematic wide receiver. After spending so much on Harvin, are they less inclined to take a risk on a guy like DGB?
Seattle cannot pick any lower than #28 overall in the 2015 draft. They shared the best record in football and the toughest strength of schedule among the playoff teams. So it’s #28-32 depending on what happens over the next few weeks. Here are the two main reasons why I doubt the Seahawks will draft Dorial Green-Beckham in the first round:
1.) Teams are going to do a ton of homework on his background and given the severity of the issues — I suspect a consensus will be formed. If he’s going to be considered by the Seahawks at the back end of round one, the consensus will likely be positive and a team picking earlier in the first frame will draft him. The risk factor between Kansas City at #18 (they need a receiver) and Seattle at #28-32 is minimal. If he convinces people he can be trusted, he’s too talented to last until the end of the first round. While the Seahawks are unconventional in their thinking, I doubt they’d take on a project like this if the rest of the league washes its hands.
2.) If he fails to convince teams he can be trusted, why would the Seahawks take the risk just because they pick later in the first? Sure, they’ve been willing to take a few chances in the past. Many teams would’ve run a mile from the Percy Harvin trade. We now know the Seahawks should’ve run away from it too. Having already blown a first rounder on one giant headache of a receiver, the last thing they need is another one to take his place. If Seattle is going to draft another wide out early — or sign one in free agency — they have to be ready to mesh with Russell Wilson and create a tight bond for the long haul. You better be all about football with no distractions. Wilson is going to get a $100m contract in a few weeks. The Seahawks need to protect that investment.
I found it interesting listening to Pete Carroll’s press conference earlier today. He was asked about what they look for in a receiver and he mentioned “grit”. And that’s so true. It’s a trait all the wide outs have in Seattle — even Harvin had it. When you watch West Virginia’s Kevin White you see it. I’m not totally convinced that Green-Beckham has it.
And despite that, he’s pretty much the one thing they really lack on the roster. They don’t have that tall, dynamic receiver who can dominate in the red zone and just scare the crap out of an opponent. Wilson does tend to overthrow at times — good luck trying to overthrow a 6-6 wide out with DGB’s wingspan. He could be a safety net, a playmaker, a game-changer.
We already noted he had 883 yards and twelve touchdowns as a sophomore for Missouri. That stat-line in Seattle would look pretty awesome — it’d be perfect for their scheme and the way they play on offense. They need someone who can compliment the receivers that are already here and improve the red zone play to put extra TD’s on the board.
There hasn’t been a prospect like this for a while. Dorial Green-Beckham has the talent to still go in the top-15. He could also go undrafted due to character concerns — or anywhere in-between. He’s a fascinating case and a potential head-case at the same time. Who knows where — or if — he’ll be drafted?
It will be very interesting to hear what scouts have to say about his character concerns after a whole year out of the game. I don’t recall hearing about any incidents since his dismissal, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s given positive reports.
I see DGB’s future playing out with a few similarities to Martavis Bryant. He will probably get drafted later than his physical talent suggests, and will only have success if he lands in the right system with the right veteran QB that can bring him along slowly at first then insert him with a small package of plays that maximize what he is able to do well as a rookie (mostly go deep and up) without the pressure of being a key offensive cog or his team’s ‘only red zone threat that scares people.’ Honestly I don’t think that team is Seattle. (I think he would actually be a great fit in Pittsburgh, seeing what they’ve done with Bryant.)
I think the college receivers that are asked to do most similarly to what our receivers are asked to do come from Georgia Tech – a simple route scheme with a heavy dose of run blocking and highpoint-red-line catches. For our big receiver I want a late or UDFA flier on Smelter and/or a mid-round (3 to 5) acquisition of Waller.
All of Seattle’s receivers are brought along slowly and put in position that fit there skill set. Look at prich and norwood, Kearse spent a year on the practice squad. Tate wasn’t really used at first. Baldwin is the only one to get thrown out there. No receiver is the key for the offense it’s always been a committee. You say that teams not seattle but you describe seattle as the team he needs. Everyone knows we need a receiver because udfa and late round picks is what we have. Getting more udfa and late rounders isn’t going to change that. I would rather keep Lockett over drafting waller or smelter imo. We actually drafted a big receiver from GT before and he washed out pretty quick.
What Seattle does with their receivers and what Pittsburgh has done with Bryant are in no way similar. If they were, then PReach and Norwood would be having the success Bryant is now – or we would have just taken Bryant before the fourth round. I think PCJS knew Bryant did not have the character to endure the especially slow and sacrificial integration that our rookie receivers customarily do. Bryant is now a legit fourth-option playmaker in Pittsburgh’s offense and asked to do nothing else. PReach and Norwood are not playmakers – yet – while being asked to be much more subservient to our only two offensive playmakers, Beast and Russell. The same way Bryant was not a good fit to endure what PReach and Norwood are now enduring, DGB would be even worse.
Give me big receivers that have already gone through that gauntlet somewhat in college, i.e GT receivers. And it doesn’t bother me that Stephen Hill was a bust withe the Jets. He got drafted by the wrong team. Megatron and Demarius Thomas didn’t turn out too bad. And who did we draft from Georgia Tech that was a bust? Kris Durham was from Georgia, not Georgia Tech.
Okay, I see what your saying. But prich and bryant got about the same amount of opportunities, bryant just got deep balls and prich got come back routes. I agree bryant would struggle more then prich here and not have the mentality to be okay with it. Prich would of put up better numbers then bryant in pit too, not tds though. DGB is closer to cj and DT, where waller and smelter are closer to durham (your right, got the wrong school). Hill on the other hand was more like aj Jenkins, dropped more then they caught and over drafted. Your most likely right about DGB not fitting in here but sitting out a year could of changed things for him, don’t think it did but I’m interested to here what his coaches have to say about him.
Georgia Tech WR Darren Waller is not closer to WR Kris Durham than he is to MegaTron. There’s a picture online where it shows Waller in a letterman’s jacket and MegaTron shirtless, and actually Waller has about 2 inches on him.
WR Darren Waller at this point, IMO may just be the best option for Seattle. Run blocker, capitalizes opportunities, red zone weapon, RW can ‘over throw’ him, selfless, competitive and his personality screams ‘I’ll go at the LOB every day and twice on Sundays.’ Or more accurately ‘gritty.’
Durham was 6-5 and 4.5 speed. CJ/DT were top 3 in wr in their drafts. CJ was the best wr prospect ever. Durham was a mid round pick and waller should be to.
MegaTron is one of the most overrated players in thru NFL. He’s breaking down, what has he ever done for Detroit? He’s a flashy sports car. Looks good and fun, but not reliable, expensive, and won’t take you very far.
I don’t see that much of a connection between Bryant and DGB. Pittsburgh took a talented rookie receiver and implemented him into their offense in an ability that works best for him. How did Seattle do it much differently with Prich? Bryant’s been the occasional deep big-play receiver and Prich a chain-moving go-to type.
The main difference between offenses is that Bryant has an elite WR opposite him, a top TE, and a top passing QB that takes advantage of the mismatch Bryant offers as the “#4 option”, as you put it. That’s be honest, Norwood is not a mismatch receiver.
The reality is that Bryant has taken the opportunity given to him and has flourished. Any club with this hindsight knowledge would have taken him much earlier than the 4th round.
My point was not so much that Bryant and DGB are the same player, but that if DGB is to experience success his NFL path might have to start similar to Bryant’s. That is, get drafted by the right team, pay his dues at the bottom of the roster for several weeks, then get inserted into an already dynamic offense as a tertiary option with a small package of plays he can do well and without any pressure of being the offensive focal point in any manner. The rest of your post speaks to this point. Bryant would not have had here what he is getting in Pittsburgh, and this is the sort of thing I think DGB will probably need to succeed. Hence him not being a good fit with us
I’d rather get a player like Waller and start him out letting him do what he is familiar with – run block a lot for Beast and Russell, then coach him up to eventually start catching fade routes in the back corner of the endzone.
Solid logic Rob. I tend to agree that there’s probably no way he lasts to the end of round 1 if he checks out. If he doesn’t check out, well we wouldn’t want him anyway. Man, it’s fun to think about a receiver of that size on this team though.
I suppose the good thing is that it potentially pushes a player down the draft board that the Seahawks might be interested in.
I really can’t wait to see what he does at the combine. That should be fun to watch.
Oh, and SUCKS about losing Jordan Hill for the rest of the season. That kid was playing out of his mind. Hope he fully recovers.
Oh man this is new news to me-flips to field gulls to coroborate- no! The middle of our Dline is so thin now….hill was getting great pressure from that interior spot….sucks
I hear people knocking him for being out of football for a year but he hasn’t. He’s on a team practicing and staying in shape, he just doesn’t suit up on Saturdays. I expected him to declare because I think he’s immature. Oakman staying in college showed me how much he has grown and I didn’t think DGB fully gets it yet, I see him as more like gorden. It would be interesting to see why he declared over staying in college. I think he’s the ultimate boom or bust pick, a true coin flip.
A lot of development takes place in game-time situations. You can work out all you want — you’re not taking big strides watching on the sidelines. And how much was he even involved with the team? Practice snaps are so limited in college, you’re not going to invest so much time in a guy who can’t play all year. The comparison with Gordon looks like a fair one to me.
I understand he won’t be in game shape but he probably wouldn’t play more then 30% of the snaps here year one. He’s working with trainers and running routes. I think players that sit out complete more likely to tear ligaments and such. I think that’s what happened to Gurley for instance.
I really thought DGB was going to stay at OU for another year, and get on the field. If he was planning on going pro this year I don’t understand why he didn’t go to a small school at got some playing time. Not sure how to read this. Guess he thought practicing against top talent was better for his development, than actually getting on the field on Saturdays. His whole situation is weird, and it screams immaturity. IMO
You make legit points Matt.
When you are winning the game with a Full House (three Aces and a pair of Jacks) you don’t take a risk by throwing away one of the Jacks and drawing on the hope you get another Ace. The point is the Hawks are Super Bowl Champions they do not need to take the extreme risks to get better. The other teams need to take the risks to catch up to us. We do our due diligence with background checks to ensure the players we select are not into drugs or domestic violence. Why ignore DGB’s background? If we are going to ignore his background, why do the background check at all? No one player is so great they can take us to the next level. DGB might bring the team down if he turns into a wasted pick and a locker room cancer. It may be boring but the Hawks need a safe pick in round one.
Like that time we drafted the safest pick in the draft… aaron curry? Haha, I actually agree with. I also wouldn’t black ball him for something he did when he was 19. Who knows maybe stoops has nothing but good things to say about him and sitting out the year changed his thinking? I don’t think that’s the case. Oakman looks like he turned the corner but he stayed in school.
I’d argue that this team’s willingness to gamble has been a main reason for it’s success. Why stop now? Why can’t a young, loaded Super Bowl Champion team with a very job secure coach/GM take the risk? Seattle “threw away” one of those jacks in a first round pick with Harvin and still come up with a winning hand. The fact is this club has taken an upside risk in almost every draft: Whitehurst+Tate in 2010. Carp in 2011. Irvin+Wilson in 2012. Havin+Cmike in 2013.
As to drug use, we have quite the history of players with drug use. Some recreational, some PED. I think if we took a look at Bruce Irvin’s background, I can’t imagine him that far away from a pound of weed or some other form of drugs seeing that he admitted to hanging at a house that was raided by the police. The difference? DGB got caught.
We could take a chance on DGB. Is it a risk? Yeah it is, but not so much a locker room cancer that you suggest that would hurt a championship club. I think it’s the opposite. DGB could hide his history behind the greatness of Russell Wilson, Earl Thomas, Richardson Sherman, and Pete Carroll.
mattk — no doubt that “this team’s willingness to gamble has been a main reason for its success”, but — to continue the gambling theme and to go along with what Ho Lee has said — now that we are sitting at the table with a huge stack of chips in front of us, why would we want to continue to take the same kind of chances that got us the huge stack of chips in the first place? What’s the upside? How much better will DGB make us if he is selected vs. selecting a “safe” player with our pick(s)? Sure, there’s a chance that he will be another Megatron, but experience has shown us that this team doesn’t need a superstar WR to be successful, especially if selecting the superstar leads to locker room problems with the hard-working, home-grown players who got us here in the first place.
Okay — having said this — I hope that PCJS do their due diligence and if they find that DGB is really not who he has been reported to be, then go ahead and choose him if he falls to us in the middle or late rounds. And, just as they did with Harvin, try to find another home for him or give him the boot if there are signs that he is having adverse effects on those around him.
The Harvin experiment told me one thing – stay away from diva WRs but of course, I’m not the decider. I will say this, Seattle likes 3-4 year starters, who are there for their teammates. I agree with you Rob – why risk it.
They’ll probably pick a WR at some point in the draft, but not DBG.
I agree with the poster above, Darren Walls seems like such a better option as a better fit for our system at a much lower cost and risk.
Oops – Darren Waller. Bad typing there.
I miss Sidney Rice. Totally a non diva…
Two words: Dez Bryant. He had the talent and specs to be a top five pick. He went 19 to Dallas because of character concerns. He’s still a head case. But nobody would ever accuse Dallas of making that mistake. And he’s about to become a head case worth $100 million. So my guess is that DGB will go in the 15-20 range.
That is the comparison that jumped right our to me… DBG is a couple inches taller… Lost a year instead of just the couple games that Dez did. But if Dez fell to 19 (I thought it was actually 22 for some reason) I don’t see why DGB couldnt possibly fall a little further.
1. DGB as head case — Not that you’ve done this Rob, but a major tendency when discussing prospects is to put all problems into the same category. DGB is more “benign knucklehead” than malcontent. There’s not been any insinuation that his drug issues have involved anything more than weed. (He’s not in Josh Gordon territory.) DBG is early Zach Randolph, a kid who got too much too soon and needs to grow up.
2. DGB as developing talent — It’s hard to overstate how much progress he made in his two seasons. DGB played 2A high school football in Southwest Missouri. Pull up his high school tape sometime. It looks like he’s playing against 8 year olds. He just never had to run a proper route against someone who could seriously press him before he walked on campus. He’s never looked athletically overmatched, but he just had to learn how to play pretty much from scratch.
Although he is definitely incredibly raw, he put in a lot of work to get better. On the field, you didn’t hear complaints about DGB’s toughness, grit, or effort. People wanted him to dominate because of his tools. When he didn’t on day 1 some want to attribute that to effort, but really he just wasn’t ready to dominate right away. That said, by the time of that Kentucky game in 2013 SEC we started to see stretches of dominance you’ve really never seen from Sammie Coates, a comparable athlete.
I tend to agree with your thinking, a lot of his problems could just be young, dumb and entitled. Him declaring makes me think he’s still entitled though.
Could be, but Dave Matter (the outstanding MU beat writer at the STL Post-Dispatch) tweeted a few days ago that OU’s coaching staff shakeup (the WR coach was fired) would likely result in DGB declaring. The coach, Jay Norvell, was DGB’s lead recruiter out of high school and closely connected to the family.
DGB’s adopted dad is a prominent HS coach, and having a personnel connection to the staff was very important in his recruiting.
Besides physical tools….and its a big besides, DGB misses a lot of the boxes the Seahawks like to see. 3-4 year player/ ideally starter. That your production increases every year in some way. And that you love football to death. Oh and they love try their team leaders.
Honestly I think Seattle would rather reach out for Vjax on two years then go the DGB route. Its strange in a year of medium sized mildly productive TE’s and small WR’s full of grititude you would think the news of DGB would get us all stoked. But with the news of Hills IR all I keep thinking is “”got to lock up the dline next year” keep it as good as this year and better.
Its crazy that big receivers this year is relegated to DGB and Funchess…i am not going to bang on supporters of Funchess because I respect everyone here but in most other years he’d not be talked about in the first or even second with his stats to date.
There’s at least a small chance Funchess sinks into the middle rounds. Looks the part but what an underwhelming career at Michigan.
For all my harping on Funchess if he slides I would be stoked to have Seattle draft him. When I get down on his drops I still see a player who can play with grew tools its just an immaturity thing for me that young people have in that it probably sucked to be playing for Michigan and it honestly looked like he didn’t care. Not a good attribute mind you but one that can and does change with your age and surroundings
Funchess is a player who hasn’t had to work for anything because his is impressive size/athleticism. Is he willing to put in the work to get better? His career at Michigan did not show that he is. It’s possible that bigger pay checks are the motivation he needs, but I doubt it. Whether you’re a Funchess fan or not this is not the type of player JS/PC target.
Oh no doubt….i was just saying that in the third or so… Honestly someone like Justin Hardy who walks on at ECU and becomes the Fbs leader in receptions us a guy I can see JS liking over a Funchess/DGB….basically sacrificing size and tools for someone who obviously strives to be great on
Have to agree with you again here Matt. Funchess doesn’t scream PCJS.
Rob we’re on the same page today!
Rob, everything you said about DGB is right…But If the draft falls similarly to the mock you had yesterday I just don’t think there is anyone the near DGB’s talent level on the board left that matches a “need.” He would be way cheaper than a Vincent Jackson at this point and I don’t think they need him to a 90 catch guy – just a Red Zone Threat/big possession receiver than can win the Jump ball. Could he gain grit practicing against the LOB every? I don’t know…There is a ton of risk but there is a ton of upside too. Maybe a lot of teams will be scared away based on his character concerns but it just take one team to like him and think he is worth the risk if the draft falls against Seattle’s favor (like yesterday’s mock).
Dez Bryant fell in the draft due to character “Diva” concerns but I believe a lot of teams in retrospect wish they would have taken on that risk of “Dez being Dez” based on the talent on the field. Could that be the same with DGB?
In fairness the mock was done assuming DGB wouldn’t declare. If I was doing it again I’d have to consider the following:
a.) Are the character concerns so strong, no team can realistically take him in the first frame.
b.) If he can prove to teams he can be trusted, he’d probably go in the top-20.
Reminds me of randy moss when he got drafted. Lots of talent, lots of issues. I remember hearing how many teams crossed moss off there board. But like all draft picks, he’s a gamble. A high risk/high reward type. I would totally pick DGB. Especially late rd 1. Unless he bombs the interview to the point of batshit craz, I would roll the dice. Pete isn’t afraid of rolling dice either. If the talent is there, I can see Seattle taking a chance.
Like with Harvin, cut bait on a failed experiment. Only difference is this is a rookie. He wants his payday. He’s not coming in as a focal point of the offense. Sit down and earn your place. Learn the ropes and earn your snaps. It’s really what that kid needs. Learn from Baldwin and the vets.
Moss — #21 pick in 1998. DGB could go in a similar range. Although Moss had extreme production before being drafted — 54 touchdowns in two years at Marshall, plus 3529 yards..
Not a fan of DGB at all. Can’t beat a press to save his life, and at his size it shouldn’t be that hard. There’s nothing that strikes me as ‘gritty’ at all about him. Rob used the best word to describe him and that’ a ‘headache.’
DT Jordan Hill going down is a big loss, but I’ll ask this. Is RW being the ONLY healthy QB left in the NFC playoffs perhaps more important?
So now that DT Jordan Hill is out, people finally see the need for another interior pass rusher. For as great of a year and as fantastic as Jordan Hill has looked, I’m not personally completely comfortable with him as the only interior rush option. I still think it’s a big need for Seattle.
Check out Clemson DT Grady Jarrett-6’1,295 lbs., former basketball player, wrestler, and a track athlete. At that size? He’s extremely humble, comes from a close knit family, is a tireless worker, was productive, and a high character kid. Some of the games I’ve watched of him, he completely dominated. Has that classic ‘bowling ball’ esque size Seattle likes. In no way am I saying he should be a 1st or 2nd rounder, but I’d pull the trigger all day long on him in the 3rd or 4th round.
Love me some Mario Edwards!!!!
Also Marsh is supposed to fill some of that role until he got hurt. The cupboard is not completely bare for next season.
Fair point about going O-line V-12. But, how many D-linemen has seattle lost this year? 5-6? That’s just really bad luck. One has to imagine a number of those guys coming back full strength. I just wonder if there’s diminishing returns drafting D-line early when there are more pressing needs on offense.
That said, in Rob’s most recent mock, there are really no good offensive choices that I see at the moment and, as you pointed out the other day, Markus Golden is still on the board. How could we pass him up if things fell that way?
heh, that first sentence should read Fair point about going D-line
To me DE Cassius Marsh is more of a RDE. I think Seattle sees him in a role similar to Bennett.
So, we’ve essentially replaced DT Clinton McDonald with DT Jordan Hill, right? We replace DE ‘Big’ Red Bryant with DT Kevin Williams in a sense. We’ve yet to replace DE-LEO Cris Clemons, although SAM LB Bruce Irvin can fill in in a pinch. My point is this, when DT Kevin Williams retires who steps up for him?
DT Jesse Williams can’t stay healthy, DL Greg Scruggs is nothing special, DT Demarcus Dobbs and DT D’Anthony are fillers really. So looking at the D-line when Seattle sets up their draft board, I see the most room for improvement early. There’s a reason why all the D-line’s snap % has increased this year, and that’s because we don’t have a rotation.
The DE-LEO position should be filled with one of our 1st or 2nd round picks. Pass-rushing interior DL with a 2nd one of our 3rds, or 4th round at the latest. And then a big run stuffing DT/Nose tackle with a 5th, 6th, or in the 7th. A guy with high upside.
Bennett plays everywhere though, and one of his great strengths last year was providing an inside pass rush when Clemons was manning Leo. One of Marsh’s strengths is supposedly his inside pass rush. I still wouldn’t mind another 3 tech, however.
Jordan Hill may not have emerged without the injury to Mebane. He got his chance, and took advantage of it.
Yeah, Marsh really only has to settle on a playing weight to be a very good player IMO. In order to rush from the inside, I would think he needs to get up to 270 lbs.
We also have to remember that Seattle, while they do draft for need, about half of their yearly draft picks are them thinking 1 or 2 steps ahead, in terms of the following year’s draft, upcoming FA, and whether a certain player is aging or will start to decline.
If Marsh does beef up, which I expect him to, then we still need a speed rusher aka LEO. If DL Greg Scruggs wouldn’t of got hurt we would have another interior pass rusher. Seattle knows they need one. Doesn’t seem as though Scruggs will ever be healthy or effective for that matter. Could be wrong.
DGB declaring isn’t a Seattle problem. He’ll be gone before the Seahawks pick. His declaring will mean that a player that would have gone earlier gets pushed back to Seattle.
Good point if that’s what happens.
If DGB is an option for the Hawks, why not just trade a 4th to Cleveland for Josh Gordon? I know they are different people, but they just seem so similar! Plus we already know how Gordon can produce against NFL level competition.
I am not saying that the Hawks should (although I would if I were them), but I am saying if DGB is an option in the first, wouldn’t it make better sense to trade a 4th or 3rd for Gordon?
Well, Cleveland would have to be willing to do a deal at that compensation first of all. Then you’d have to be prepared to give Gordon a new contract I’d reckon. Plus he’s already served countless suspensions and will be on a ‘no strikes left’ count. DGB has his issues but at least he’d be cheap in terms of salary and starting with a blank slate in terms of the NFL.
No thanks to DBG.
For those comparing him to Dez Bryant, first remember that Bryant’s “crime” was associating with Deon Sanders, not drugs and definitely not violence towards women.
Second, DBG’s college production isn’t in the same league as Bryant’s. To wit:
NCAA career totals for Dez Bryant in 2 full seasons (2007-08) + 3 games in 2009
Rec Yards Avg TD
147 2,425 16.5 29
NCAA career totals for DBG in 2 full seasons (2012-13)
Rec Yards Avg TD
87 1,278 14.5 17
Bryant has 2x the receptions, 2x the yards, 2x the TDs as DBG and yet he played only 3 more games than DBG.
In other words, there is no comparison between Bryant and DBG.
Psh . . . who cares about DBG when there is Tyler Lockett to talk about?
Elite level college production, great route runner, gritty, +++ punt returner and, if you watched their bowl game, you’d also notice him (the most talented guy on that KSU team) as the gunner on the punt team.
This kid MUST get into the program.
K-St WR Tyler Lockett is definitely intriguing. Not earlier than a comp pick in the 4th or in the 5th. Those hands of his are damn small; He may be one of those guys who thrives in the college game, but will struggle in the NFL. We see it every year, in every round really. With that being said, he is exciting and does have some appeal.
I’m a Lockett fan too! He would solve our suspect, at best, KR/PR game. Spending a 4th on a big upgrade over Bryan Walters sounds great to me! I’m not banking on Lockett’s noticeably small hands being a consistent WR,while he has flashed playmaking skills. He looks electric returning kicks and punts! Small hands don’t matter body catching kicks btw.
Not really sure spending a 4th round pick on a guy just to return kicks and punts is worth it. Seattle should be able to find a guy like that in the 6th, 7th, or UDFA.
I’m downplaying Lockett’s WR skills, which have upside, because I doubt he sees the field much behind Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson and Norwood. He could prove effective in the slot, and i think he’d step in and compete. Our return game is lacking, and he would guarantee an immediate upgrade. Maybe he can replace Ricardo Lockette as a gunner too. Thus replacing 2 roster spots(Walters,Lockette) with 1. Special teams versatility has value. Maybe that extra roster spot is filled with a jump ball specialist.
Great news indeed.
Lets hope that at least one team will see him as a 1st round pick thus leaving someone else on the board for us.
We will not pick him anyway but maybe it will free an interesting prospect OL/DL…
Speaking of OL, has anyone heard or know anything about this TCU OL Tayo Fabujule? This kid is massive at 6’7, 340 lbs., and seems to move pretty well from the TCU games I’ve watched this year. Would love to hear what someone thinks of him.
I must apologize but every time we talk about a big WR the vision I have is of Daryl “The Burner” Turner. For those who do not remember Turner, he was the big outside receiver the Seahawks paired with Steve Largent in the 1980’s. Turner set Seahawk receiving records his first and second year for touchdowns as the deep threat. He caught 10 TD’s his rookie year and 13 the following year. That is not what I remember, however. What I remember is all of the drops he had. He became something of a joke in Seattle for the balls that went off his hands.
Dave Krieg was the QB. Kreig completed 60 and 62% of his passes in the two years prior to Turner. The following two years his completion percentages dropped to 57% and then 53% in DT’s two good years. The third year of Turner Krieg stopped targeting him as much. Turner caught half as many balls, half as many yards and half as many TD’s in this third year but Krieg’s completion percentage went back up to over 60%. Turner would have only one more year in the league.
I see similarities to Kelvin Benjamin and Odell Beckham. Beckham is like Largent and Benjamin is like Turner. Yeah, we might find a big WR but at what cost to the total offense. Will he take targets away from the guys that can catch like Baldwin the way Harvin did? It only works if he catches the ball and there are not many like Calvin Johnson out there. Megatron, by the way, only catches 55% of his targets from Stafford, who completes fewer than 60% of his passes. So be careful what you wish for. Detroit is out of the playoffs with their big WR and we are still in it.
Ho Lee Chit. See my above respond to rowdy. I think you may agree with me. You and me seem to be in the same boat about MegaTron.
I am not down on Megatron. I just have a sense that all of the big receivers take targets away from guys with a higher catch rate. The Offensive Coordinator is obligated to target the tall, first round WR the team just drafted. Most of the time this results in a lower completion percentage for the QB. On third and six you throw to your number one receiver. It is incomplete and you punt. Had you thrown it underneath the coverage to the possession receiver you move the chains. In the playoffs, the DB’s get better. They take away the big, No. 1 target. Then you are left with only possession receivers that can get open. Why not field all possession receivers and drive those DB’s nuts trying to cover them all?
That very well may be Seattle’s thinking.
Rob, since this is a post about a WR, what do you think of Maryland WR Stefon Diggs? Freak athlete, has been recently hurt, but everything I’ve heard about him is that he’s a ‘team first’ guy, a leader, runs the ball on jet sweeps, pitches, draws, etc., and is a pretty good/willing run blocker and he’d help out in the KR/PR game as well. I’m not talking as a 1st round pick though. Thoughts?
I think Seattle’s thinking is that the most reliable receivers get on the field, and in our roster the reliable wr’s all happen to be kinda same-y. But remember how Schneider gushed when Steven Williams hit the market? Before that it was Kevin Durham and this year it was Chris Matthews. PCJS want wideouts that pose matchup problems. They haven’t really nailed it yet, but they look every year for a red zone threat. If Luke Willson could hang onto a contested pass, maybe he could be that guy in the red zone, but he hasn’t shown that at all. Not saying DGB is the answer but I don’t believe the Seahawks ever feel obligated to do anything, the roster is predicated solely on performance and they just haven’t found a big wideout that can consistently perform.
I really hope they find one, though. Russell seemed really in the zone throwing to Fitz and co in the pro bowl a few years back.
DGB falling out of the draft and Jameis Winston at #20? Absolutely not happening unless something new and shocking is uncovered.
I’d be surprised if Winston goes beyond the Jets and DGB lasts beyond the mid-2nd.
The best fit for DGB is a team with a strong leadership/locker room culture…such as New England.
I wouldn’t rule out Seattle if he’s there because in many ways, DGB is a PC type high risk/reward play….unique talent and skill set but red flags. And there’s a history of high risk / second chance flyers…like Harvin, Irvin, Simon, Mike Williams etc.
The question is does the Harvin fiasco change the paradigm?
I wouldn’t rule out Seattle if he’s there because in many ways, DGB is a PC type high risk/reward play….unique talent and skill set but red flags. And there’s a history of high risk / second chance flyers…like Harvin, Irvin, Simon, Mike Williams etc.
Great point M. DGB is the ultimate high risk/high reward in this draft. It’ll be even more interesting after the combine. I fully expect him to light the combine up!
I didn’t have DGB falling out of the draft — my previous mock was compiled before he declared. Although I don’t think he’s a lock for the first round. Not after Rice/Peterson/Hardy/McDonald etc.
Word is today Lovie Smith like Winston over Mariotta (shocking, I know) and Winston may go FOA.
To be fair though, Harvin, Bruce Irvin, and BMW were all guys who had a connection to PC. They either played for him, such as Mike Williams, or PC tried to recruit them when he was the HC at USC, such as Percy Harvin and Bruce Irvin.
Tharold Simon, if I remember correctly, only got in trouble the night before the draft for something incredibly stupid. And he cost just a 5th round pick, not a 1st rounder.
Frankly I’ve had enough of dumping our early picks into rolling the dice on WRs. We used our first pick the last two drafts on WRs, and look how much THAT helped the team.
Don’t pick for need, especially in the late first. Pick for value. If DGB gets picked 22 and that makes Golden available, you take the great third pass rusher who should never have been available at 32 with a smile IMO.