This blog is not going to turn into the daily moan.
I have a piece lined up discussing Tua Tagovailoa’s status and I’ll run through the Bob McGinn draft notes.
However, right now there’s only one topic in town. Seattle’s off-season. So I hope you’ll indulge me talking about this again today.
Rather than the pro-active, problem-solving off-season many of us expected — the inactivity to date is increasingly creating confusion and frustration.
The latest update today is there’s no progress with Jadeveon Clowney. However, he’s now reportedly weighing up one year deals because his market is cold.
Meanwhile Everson Griffen has told Minnesota he’s moving on. According to Chris Tomasson though:
“A lot will depend on where Clowney signs and then Griffen could end up being an option B for a team that doesn’t get Clowney.”
How has it come to this?
At the combine Pete Carroll and John Schneider spoke of the critical need to fix the pass rush. Carroll called Clowney a ‘huge priority’. He talked about getting a premier pass rusher to play the LEO and a dynamic five technique.
Why hasn’t that been the priority then?
They’ve spent money retaining Jarran Reed, adding three offensive linemen and signing up a collection of mediocre RFA and ERFA’s. They’ve brought back Luke Willson and tendered Jacob Hollister to stack up the tight end position.
Why are they waiting it out with Clowney and/or Griffen instead of Brandon Shell and the currently unsigned Germain Ifedi? Why not roll the dice on Cordy Glenn being available down the line instead? Why zap resources on three O-liners who will need to compete for a job when the pass rush remains untouched barring Bruce Irvin?
For some reason, Ed Dickson remains on the roster. As does Tedric Thompson.
What are they waiting for? Are they waiting to see if Clowney fancies it? If not, just sign some cheap pass rushers and Ed and Ted can stick around for another camp?
I’ll repeat — why are Ed Dickson and Tedric Thompson still on the roster?
It just doesn’t make any sense.
Get your pass rush sorted. Everything else can wait. Go and get your five technique and your LEO. Solve the big need. Then let all the other things come to you.
So what if you need to pay Clowney a bit more to get it done? The Eagles paid Darius Slay and Javon Hargrave a bit more. The Dolphins paid Byron Jones a bit more. The Falcons paid Dante Fowler a bit more. It’s free agency. You generally end up having to pay a bit more than you want.
At the Pro-Bowl Russell Wilson asked for superstars.
He was right to. We can all see this was an off-season that required action.
So why hasn’t it happened yet?
Many are willing to call for patience. And that’s fine. But being patient is risky. What happens if you wait out Clowney and he goes somewhere else? How much longer is Griffen going to be available as a backup option? And if you don’t get either — then what? Talk to the Jaguars or Ravens about Yannick Ngakoue or Matt Judon with very little leverage? What if they decide they want a massive return via trade?
Names like Benson Mayowa are being thrown around. Really?
Being active in week one of free agency doesn’t have to be reckless. Have the Ravens been reckless in acquiring Calais Campbell and Michael Brockers? Or the Bills in trading for Stefon Diggs? Or the Cardinals stealing DeAndre Hopkins? Or the Eagles in signing Hargrave and trading for Slay?
The Seahawks, by their own admission, needed to fix the pass rush.
And now they’re in a stalemate with a player merely to maintain the status quo. Keeping Clowney simply means the same line as 2019 that finished in the bottom five for pressures, sacks, hurries, was a league leader for missed tackles and struggled to defend the perimeter run. The only difference is Bruce Irvin has replaced Quinton Jefferson.
Are they going to rely on a weak D-line draft class to try and rescue the 2020 season from being another first or second round playoff exit before the same old talk of this ‘feeling like 2012’ while promising to fix the glaring issues?
The retention of Dickson and Thompson, the collecting of tight ends, preferring to wait out the pass rushers and instead quickly signing three offensive linemen who (at best) are unknown quantities.
And the only pass rush move is Bruce Irvin.
I’ve spent 24 hours trying to work this out and I just don’t get it.
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Rob you can’t figure it out because there is no logic to it what so ever.
No doubt someone will be along shortly to tell us we just need to wait until April 23rd and then another team will trade us their best pass rusher at a reasonable price.
I don’t know why we have Britt at an $11.4mm cap hit and a cut saves $8.5mm, KJ at a $10mm cap hit and cut saves $7.5, Dickson saves $3mm. Those 3 cuts are good for $18mm.
We don’t need Britt, KJ is slow and it’s a DL/2ndary league, not aging outside LB’s that can be found cheaply and reason we drafted 2 last season. In fact, we moved up for Barton.
Then we burn $7mm on Greg Olsen? Overpaid for Reed with close to a $10mm cap hit and still have an aging, slow defense that can’t get after the QB or a Nickel back that we need. This base D idea is archaic.
There is a good $40mm+ of 2020 cap hit that isn’t going to improve this squad from 2019.
We need 2 pass rushers and a Nickel CB in the worst way!! Yet, we sign an injured TE, an overrated DT for big bucks and have $27mm with TT of worthless players that need to be axed to pay for 2 DE’s & a nickel corner.
This isn’t rocket science but apparently, JS/PC are trying to get cute and are really making a plethora of poor business decisions. Thank God we have RW who is worth every penny of his $31mm cap hit. Clowney is a mandatory sign as is a trade for Yannick. Our DL cap hit should be $45mm, LB’s around $15mm. They are allocating funds in the worst way.
I agree they should’ve saved some money to be more pro-active. $20m on Wright and Britt, as great as they’ve been, is not a good use of resources.
Zero logic at all.
It’s dumbfounding. I’ve been saying that about Dickson and TT for days now as well
They given TT permission to talk to other teams in the end I think he gets cut but they will have tried to get something out of that. Dickson I was reading that because he is injuried may need a physical before he can be released. Its just something I heard.
The physicals for Britt and Dickson may very well be a large part of this but why would they not sign Clowney and his compliment before making additions on the OL and at TE is unexplainable to me.
No, they’re not.
Thanks for clarifying
To the best of my understanding – Without being medical cleared, the Seahawks will need to pay over a million in injury compensation on each player (See Avrill…).
Hence, it would be in the team’s interest to wait with cuts.
Dickson and TT save $5mm. Add that to the Britt and KJ cuts that should happen and that’s where the real money savings is. $16mm!! Those 4 should be axed and the $21mm allocated to the most paramount positions on the D. It’s common football and budgetary sense but apparently, PC/JS haven’t been to cap management 202.
Is Jody Allen tightening purse strings, fearing long-term economic problems from COVID-19?
No
Logic: clear the decks for 2021 since no games will be played in 2020.
No team is planning for that, even if it proved to be true.
In regards to Dickson, I have read that one possibility he’s still on the roster is due to him getting access to medical resources.
So everyone else can cut their players but we’ve got to let Ed Dickson have access to medical resources?
In the meantime, Jadeveon Clowney isn’t signing for us over a few million.
The thought occurred that Dickson might be dragging his feet about getting a physical. He could use the virus stuff as an excuse. There’s been a bizarre relationship between Dickson and the team. So it wouldn’t shock me if he is somehow really hard to get a hold of at the moment.
But, do we know definitively that it’s about money? Maybe it’s term?!
I’m still holding off on feeling any panic.
Other suitors are dropping out and no news is sometimes good news.
In what other industry can you do as you wish with no requirement of quality or accountability to the customer? Like everyone here, I’m going to tune in for every game. What they do with the pass rush only affects whether or not I’ll stick around for the Russell Wilson tragicomedy likely to develop after ever sad, desperate half time. Maybe Clowney is just as aware of the poor clock management, wasted time-outs and other amateur mistakes as we are. Maybe he doesn’t believe that continuity and the magical sophomore pop is all it’ll take to go all the way. Maybe unlike us and #3… he has the good sense to walk away.
It’s definitely not that.
Playing devils advocate here. Maybe they are just as frustrated with the pass rush situation as we are. Clowney may be taking forever and they cant make him sign. It appears that Griffen just became available as he wanted to be a Viking. The Jags are in no rush to trade Ngakoue unless they get blown away. As far as why Dickson is on the team is because if they release him right now he wont pass a physical so they would owe him a $1.2 injury settlement the same way they did Avril. That means his cap savings would end up only being $1.8 million instead of $3.0. TT is going to save you $2.1 million and I would bet my house he is gone but they dont really need it right now. Im not disagreeing with anything you said up there but there is always two sides of every story and Im just thinking what the other side could look like.
Prudent and I believe you are correct about Dickson. Not sure why TT is still here though.
They’ve had weeks to prepare for this.
If all of that was true, they should’ve gone a different route. Other pass rushers have been signed, added or traded for.
And they can offer more money to Clowney to make him sign right now.
What would the most likely cap casualties have to be in order to make room for both Griffen AND Clowney? Something must be going on in the background to cause apparent inaction, maybe it’s working out the answers to questions like this one.
You all are very amusing with your frustration and impatience.
“Just do something, just do something”, you keep repeating.
Without knowing any single detail about where the negotiations are.
And if someone posts anything contrary to your opinions? You mock them or don’t post the reply at all.
Well, it is your blog! I just don’t see your reaching professional status (an idea you seem to embrace) with your demeanor and tone? Maybe I am wrong with this one. I do wish you the best, but consider not being so mocking or dismissive of those who post items that you don’t agree with.
If this is aimed at me — and I presume it is given you reference the blog owner.
RE: My aims at becoming a professional…
I’ve worked full time for the BBC for over a decade as a sports journalist and editor. I was named Broadcast Journalist of the year in my county for 2019. I’ve reported on major events around the world. I’m not overly concerned about becoming a professional. For the last +11 years I’ve done this in my spare time as a hobby because I enjoy it.
But it’s interesting that you complain about a mocking tone and then make reference to my ‘professional status’. Funny.
My comment was hardly mocking, it was simply a reference to the fact that you had mentioned something along the lines of being very willing to be supported by the industry for your efforts. I really don’t know what the industry looks for over here in the US, and perhaps I conflated my own personal feelings about your tone towards others with my ideas about the viability of your aspirations.
I will say I have enjoyed reading the discussions here in general, even if the prognostications sometimes veer into the silly (Case in point, the current threads about how the Seahawks should just “do something”). I *have* taken offense at your treatment of a few posters, two in particular, who opined with views contradictory to yours (and even provided facts and numbers), and you rather glibly dismissed them. One of them apologized for contradicting you in a rather fawning fashion, which I thought was a little strange?
And now I my turn to prognosticate: the reason Seattle hasn’t “just done something” is because they are negotiating terms that are amenable to the organization’s vision. And agreeing to a five-year at 23 mill year is not part of their vision (nor the market place’s) so Clowney’s other position is a one year at say 20MM. If this is Clowney’s position, I ask you, would you agree to either of those two positions? I would certainly continue the conversations.
And remember, Clowney promised Seattle the right to match.
Big of SDB, not a fan of these posts by Kimbo
1. I’ve never mentioned anything to do with that. If someone says, ‘hey Rob — would you like to do something like this full time one day?’ I say, ‘sure’. Do I need it? No. I work for the BBC, have done for over 10 years. My ‘professional’ ambitions are just fine thank you very much.
2. Calling out someone’s professionalism because you have a different opinion on free agency is so petty and arrogant. But it’s not as bad as the complete lack of awareness you’re presenting.
3. Nobody has called for the Seahawks to give Clowney $23m a year. That’s a strawman.
Ouch. A swing and a miss. What a disrespectful post. Too many of these happening these days. Honestly, I think Rob is spot on here and I throughly enjoy him arguing this side of the coin. He argues the other side often enough!!!
I can see why Clowney would be pushing for a one year deal. His market is cold after a year where he gutted out an injury (pun intended) and he can’t get the blockbuster deal he wants. He doesn’t want to take less than he thinks he is worth.
If I’m Seattle, I’m thinking, ok we will do the one year, IF we have the option to tag you after.
I am sure he will ask for no tag if it is a one year deal.
And as was mentioned earlier, why would Clowney want Seattle on a one year, prove it deal?
It didnt work last year, and there are no signs of him getting help that would improve his sack numbers.
+12
A 1-year deal would prevent them from addressing other needs.
If a fair offer ($17.5-20 million APY) is on the table, I’d give him a deadline to accept or bounce.
No it won’t. They can still create plenty of cap space.
How? By cutting a number of players? I doubt they’ll gash their roster (Britt, Wright, Thompson, etc.) for 1 year of Clowney. For longer contracts and multiple players, sure.
What might work against Clowney now, beside the physical exam issues, is looking for a one year deal at this late a point in the FA spending spree. With only one year a team has no room to adjust the first year cap hit and defer the larger costs of the contract to a later year or years. In line with the frustration that Rob is expressing, it’s very confusing that JS isn’t making a bit of a reach to give Clowney the number he appears to want given the dwindling options for quality DL. And likewise, Clowney not coming to a team friendly position from his end to accommodate getting the best deal he can in a market that’s tighter than he anticipated. Something is missing in our understanding when both sides don’t make sense like this.
All we ask for is a Championship roster each year & these guys just haven’t been getting the message lately, lol. 😝
On a more serious albeit off topic note, if you need a distraction from watching the grass grow you could always make sure you have enough non-perishable food & water to last your family for a month or so. Peace ✌🏾
One thing I don’t worry about is Schneider and Carroll not being aggressive in addressing the holes in the Seahawks roster whether it be free agency or draft. The expendable players can be cut anytime (Britt,Thompson,Dickson). I think we will get 2 of Clowney, Griffin and Ndokwe with the real possibility Clowney is the odd man out.
I would’ve said the same until this week.
Rob, do you think the early signings of offensive line were done because they predict they will have to trade draft capital for pass rush. It sure feels either that is the underlying story or after last year with the run on pass rushers, they feel that the offensive line talent is there but will not last?
I don’t think so. I think they just decided to replace Iupati, Fant and Ifedi with three similar players.
By similar do you mean mediocre,unproven & washed up?
Credit for making a slow and frustrating free agency, entertaining and distracting.
Thank you.
First off, no need to apologize Rob. You reflect the frustrations that many of us with this front office and there no reason you have to strike a happy optimistic tone with all of your posts. It’s utterly baffling why this process has taken so long. Why would you force this bad negotiation with someone you’ve identified as a key piece you want back? Why would he take it considering the bad feelings involved? Could it be that they really prefer him to sign elsewhere to get a comp pick next year? Is the injury/rehab not going as well as thought? Those are the only two things I can think of that would prevent them from wrapping this up and securing him. And now Griffen announces he’s not coming back to the Vikings? Why isn’t he signed already? You have two moves go make that will improve your team immediately and you’re letting them go for what reason? It had better not be to save a few million because that’s just killing another year of Russell at his prime. No one wants to see a flood of mid to low level players being signed to fill out the roster C’mom front office, you’re better than this!
They could help themselves by getting Griffen NOW. Who knows, maybe they’re in the process of doing so.
But spend the money it takes, and get his name on a contract even if you’re spending a bit more than planned. 1) You’ve now added a talented veteran cog to your line and 2) maybe in some small way it helps with Clowney knowing the team is serious.
Cap-wise, there will be ways to add Clowney after Griffen, even if you have to step up your offer. But if part two (Griff) is sitting in front of you right now…which it is…get it done.
Thinking the same thing. Given the number of options is dwindling, better to lock something up in case Clowney decides to sign elsewhere.
+12
I suspect the delay comes from from trying to fit both Clowney and Griffen contracts into the cap simultaneously. but what do I know? I know nothing…
This is kind of what I am thinking, trying to get everything to work to land Griffen and Clowney. Plus they maybe working some other deals and everything has to fall into place in the right order.
That’s easier to do when one is signed.
“We’ve only got X left”
Rather than… “please take less so we can give the other guy more”
I think this is true. My take is that going in, the Seahawks offered Clowney something like 4 for 72 w/ an about 10 mil first year cap hit. Clowney’s camp wanted somethin more like 6 for 132. When free agency opened, Clowney’s market was even softer than anticipated and he wasn’t even getting 5 for 100 type offers. So when the two sides sat down again, I believe the Seahawks were willing to improve their offer some to get something done but are still trying to keep the first year cap hit around 10 mil. It seems like Clowney’s team has reversed course and countered with if we can’t get the long term deal we think we deserve let’s go for a short term, 1 or 2 year deals for 18-20 mil / year and hit the market again. But this structure doesn’t fit very well into the Seahawks salary plan. With an approximate 12 – 14 mil of salary cap room (I don’t think Bruce or Ogbuehi’s cap hits are officially known yet), signing Clowney for 18 mil is doable but not ideal if they want to add another impactful edge (Leo) without making serious other cap arrangements (either cuts or restructures). I believe they know what Everson Griffen will take to sign and have a structure for a manageable first year hit of around $6 mil. Ideally they want to add both Clowney and Griffen for about a 16 mil year one cap hit. But Clowney is the priority and if they have to match a 1 yr 18 mil offer they want to have that opportunity even if that means walking away from Griffen. I think their plan B if they can’t get Clowney is to sign Griffen and then add another edge thru trade with Griffen playing either the 5 tech or leo depending on whom they add. This will be costly both thru draft picks and salary but I think they will still take action to address the pass rush prior to the draft.
Hawk Metal sounds very good thanks.
agreed. I’m frustrated. I’m sure there’s a ton of inside info they know. Incase they don’t get clowney, there’s got to be a backup deal or something. My other thought is that there is an agreement with clowney that whatever he gets they will beat. So they sit back and wait and that’s the disappointment with clowney. Now he’s scrambling to get more suitors to up the price, knowing Seahawks will beat. But thats my hope. On the flip side, I hope clowney isn’t so frustrated with the hawks letting him sink in the market that he jets to an equal offer in a better situation. Spurning the hawks. Either way, its a gamble. A very unnecessary gamble.
All this is just so frustrating. If they really wanted clowney, Reed and another stud, then how come the only hedge is Irvin so far???maybe
Maybe they tried to get a couple other deals done. Maybe Calais said no. Maybe they misjudged the market for fowler, Quinn, etc…who knows, maybe the whole FA they were off the mark. But then if that were the case, then why dangle around with clowney???? None of it makes sense.
Others have said this. I think JC overestimated his value and now wants another 1 year deal with no franchise tag for next year. I think the Seahawks want a longer deal with the tag. Only time will tell ….
He’s the anti-Josina LOL
lol, why even post that??? Its like, hey, I have access to players and info. But they won’t talk to me. Sigh.
The comments below are great. “I would have hung up on you too, Chris”
It made a refreshing change to Josina Anderson tweeting about her successful phone calls.
I want to start a twitter account now where I call random professional athletes and see if they hang up on me. Get myself verified then call me journalist.
Awesome.
@TwitterReporter
Just googled Everson Griffen’s phone number. Couldn’t find it, but according to Instagram, he has visited an airport in the past year. Indications are that he might be on the move.
6:66 PM – March 20, 2020
Can confirm.
He just posted a picture of the sky on Instagram story.
My neighbor’s second cousin’s sister in law is a meteorologist and she says that cloud pattern only forms over SeaTac.
So he’s definitely here and we’ll get a contract announcement shortly.
I’ve already ordered by Hawks jersey.
Well, now that the XFL has officially cancelled the rest of their season, we can get on with signing P.J. Walker as Russ’s backup! Oh joy!
I think they might be onto something with this new offense they’re going to run. The Zorb Ball is what they’re calling it. It’s a 6 linemen, 4 tight end set where they kind of set up with Russ in a modified victory formation and he runs up the field surrounded by all these big guys. Unstoppable and explains the rash of OL and TE signings. We’ll score every time and there will be no need for star players on the DL.
😂 worth a shot…?
Maybe part of my problem is that I am stuck at home because of the virus. All I can do is constantly check for news. When there is none I get impatient. Normally, I would have more life going on. Right now the only fun I am having is following the FA moves. Actually, not much fun if you are a Seahawks fan ( so far)!
Better than watching the stock market lol
Isn’t this going on like 4 years for SEAHAWKS fans? Gotta think Olsen is about the same caliber signing as Brad McDougald.
I’m sill happy though.
You think that game where he sat against Tampa irked the FO?
Missed several games with injury, and then some dirty hits in the playoffs, along with insinuating that seattle wasn’t a true contender after the season ended, probably soured JS’s view of him, who seems to get turned off by difficult personalities easier than Pete. See Marshawn.
If I recall before the game and post game interviews with PC made it sound like it wasn’t his call for Clowney to miss the game, like Clowney’s call to sit. And obviously the other missed games but it seemed like this particular game they thought he was going to play but pulled out last minute.
Over the years it became clear to me that the Hawks FO is aware of the local press and even the comments sections of FieldGulls, and you must have drawn their interest, too. So they are listening. You can be pretty sure of that.
I am mystified as well. There are usually reasons for such things. Maybe it’s Clowney. They can’t make him make a decision without throwing money at him. They have a method and are sticking to it. You and most of us are willing to sweeten the deal to get him to sign, but we just cannot know how these things evolve with a particular player. I keep thinking: Today’s the day. but then tomorrow comes and no deal is announced.
I doubt it. We have a great community here and I love you all. But outside of us not many people seem to pay much attention. The local press never give this place any push, the radio don’t call any more. Blog’s are yesterday’s news and the views of a British guy talking about the wrong kind of football are seen as pretty irrelevant by most.
But for the few, SDB is the best site on the web 😉
I appreciate it Seb.
literally the best sports website bar none.
lookout landing, ussmariner and fangraphs used to be great. peter king’s weekly column is ok, but bloated.
this site is amazing. i honestly still think one of these days you’re going to get whisked away like cameron and sullivan did by fangraphs and then later by mlb.
til then, keep up the incredible work.
Truth!
One of the best Seahawks reporters Rob! Thanks for all the content.
Us against the world. So be it.
I saw a comment earlier that said something like ‘Clowney might be disgruntled with Seahawks for not ponying up’, or something to that effect. What if the opposite is true.
Also, I can’t imagine that the FO don’t have a plan in place. I mentioned the other day that maybe they have a higher view of say Okwara and Davis than most and they plan on moving up to get both of them. Maybe they already know they will get Clowney and that it’s just a matter of matching contracts.
Sitting here at home with not so much to do doesn’t help. Surely they have a plan though right? It is their job and they get paid handsomely-precisely to have a plan.
I don’t think anyone is saying they don’t have a plan.
They had a plan last year with Clark. It’s just that so far that plan looks like a massive failure.
Also in this league the best laid schemes can blow up in your face so easily.
Somebody better get Bob Sugar’s ass on the phone as and “SHOW HIM THE MONEY!”
I dont know jack about the DL draft class but I can tell you how every one of them will pan out. Drafted anywhere between R1P16 and Mr Irrelevant…either gets a hangnail and somehow misses so much of training camp his career will never recover…. or needs three years to develop mentally and physically before he can be a contributing factor in the NFL. Nobody available to the Hawks in this year’s draft will improve our 2020 pass rush.
Hey RS chin up.
None of us are perfect, you do a great job.
Think about it like this ESPN has millions of dollars and they can’t put a good MNF broadcast together. Recognition will come later.
Just like SEA’s pass rush, and edge defenders in 2020
I love how the tone of this blog has evolved throughout this frustrating free agency period. Quit messing around Pete and John! It’s time for action!
I call it as I see it.
It is what it is . . .
I do think it’s important that we point this out. For anyone who hasn’t been in here for every post and every comment section – Rob didn’t immediately jump to complaining about the lack of action in the first hour of free agency, and even talked some other people off the ledge. But we’re deep enough in that it’s quite perplexing now. After seeing the news on Griffen I have to believe (for my own sanity) that we’re a few phone calls away from signing both him and Clowney.
Or, conversely, quit messing around Jadeveon, you’re only worth what the market says you are worth. It’s time for action!
Rob. I share your and everyone’s frustration.
Sometimes just cause you want it, doesn’t make it so.
In JSPC we must trust. They must be going nuts
I just hope we end up with one sub-30 pass rusher in a long term contract.
Are they going nuts?
I mean, who can say?
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to want the pass rush sorted.
Absolutely not unreasonable. I’m in your movie!
Given JS said he has sleepless, gut wrenching nights trying to fit all the pieces together, I’d be willing to bet he’s more bothered than we rightly should be.
That’s why I’m so surprised.
Why have sleepless nights if, when the time comes to deliver, you decide to try and force your ‘high priority’ re-sign to agree to your terms?
And how exactly do you “force” him?
Exactly. The pat answer from many of this fine community is: throw more money at the problem because I the fan am frustrated”. So, what if it’s not about money?
It, what if it’s about a freaking egregious unacceptable amount of dosh, so much that JS won’t pay it?
No that is not the answer from this community.
It’s amazing how disingenuous people will be to try and win an argument on the internet.
They’re trying to force him by refusing to offer more money.
As I laid out in the piece, you have to pay up in free agency. The Eagles did for Slay, Miami for Jones etc. Giving a bit more to Clowney to get this done is not unreasonable. Losing out on him and being left with no pass rush is not acceptable.
I absolutely agree that paying slightly more in FA is part of the deal and that the risk of losing the #1 FA DL prospect over a small % of the cap is not worth taking on at all.
I differ slightly in terms of telling PC and JS to move now, as I trust their discretion.
Though fully agree that action has to be taken or the opportunities will go away.
If The Seahawks do end up increasing their offer, it would be a great gesture on the part of both parties to designate that, say, $1M of the offer will be donated by Clowney to a charity of his choice. There are a lot of people in the Seattle area who need some help right now and all this talk in the local press about Clowney’s offer, and whether it should be $18M per year or $20M per year, is — at a minimum — bad timing. There are probably some legal considerations that preclude this, but I’m just sayin’ ….
Rob – it seems to be widely held that the Seahawks have told Clowney that they would try to beat any offer that he receives from another team. IF THIS IS THE CASE, then why would the Seahawks up their offer? Isn’t this like bidding against themselves?
You’re right.
Might as well risk missing out on the self proclaimed ‘high priority’ to get him at the reported $18.5m instead of $20m.
In fact I can’t believe all these other teams actually signing players. Better to try and shave a couple of mill by waiting it out. Seahawks leading the way again.
Taking a deep breath … as we all know, the Seahawks signed JC last year to a deal that met his demand that he would not be tagged this year. That was a generous thing to do on the part of the Seahawks and, realistically, it may have been the reason that JC agreed to come to Seattle. Presumably, at the end of last season, they had discussions with JC and his agent and told them that they really wanted JC to play for a long time as a Seahawk and with this in mind, they asked JC and his agent that after JC tests the market he should come back to the Seahawks to see if they could beat any offer he received. I think this is where things are today. I think JC has an offer from the Seahawks and that offer is better than any other he has received. But, it’s obvious that it isn’t good enough and JC is now trying to get more $$, or he is trying to sign a one-year deal with the hopes that this time next year, any concerns about his injuries will be moot, and the Covid-imposed restrictions on team’s being able to fly FAs in for physicals will be a thing of the past. If I were JS, I would do just what it appears he is doing. I would keep reminding JC that if he wants the best deal available now, he should sign. (Maybe I would up the guaranteed portion of the deal a little …)
Hindsight is 20/20, but with Collier Barton and Blair looking like non-factors, Ziggy being an Eddie Lacy level bust, Clowney collecting 3 sacks and then wanting a mega deal, and Frank winning the Super Bowl, I can’t help but feel that JSPC totally botched last offseason. The one bright spot of the personnel moves was DK Metcalf, without a doubt. But he was had at the end of the second round, and we could have just prioritized drafting him and kept Frank around.
Perhaps I am wrong, but outside of a couple of games, I don’t really recall Clowney being a consistent major factor last year. Not a bust by any means, and he did take over a few games (Bengals, Cardinals on the road, 49ers on the road, come to mind), but not nearly with the consistency needed to win a championship.
We could resign him and see something crazy happen like Green ascend to become a 10+ sack guy while he has a similar amount of production.
Let’s not forget Britt looked like a wasted pick until year as well as Golden Tate taking his sweet time. The jury is still out on those 3.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing.
Would’ve loved to keep Clark too but was tough at that stage
Disagree strongly SEA killed it last season @CaptainJack.
A great draft generally nets 3 starters.
I’m all for making sure the positive side of things get their fair shake, but at the same time you still need to call a spade a spade. You can’t run through life with rose-colored glasses and ignore reality. My rose-colored glasses at the dumpster long ago. Just give me reality any day of the week.
Not mentioned in the article, but my least favorite move the seahawks have made was letting Jefferson go for cheap. He did a lot of good stuff that didn’t show up on the stat sheet. Could play everywhere on the line. We really was underrated here. And to Buffalo? One of the most boring cities that has an NFL team. Feel like we should have tried at least a little harder to keep him around.
I thought he was overrated. Not an impact defender. A decent rotational piece and no more.
I’m with you Cap’n. Counting the playoffs, he was the team leader in sacks. Now that isn’t saying much, and it is pretty low on my list of concerns right now, but I would have liked to keep him as well.
Dickson… The salary cap implications of cutting with an injury settlement sound legit. not sure if thats why he is still on the roster, but thats the only reason I got!
TT… Stubborness? I feel like in the past the hawks would release these in these situations to give the guy the greatest opportunity on the market as possible. Maybe they aren’t sold on releasing him? They would accept a trade, but feel like it isn’t 2.1M wasted to keep him?
Lastly, the Pass Rush. Im as annoyed as the rest. The only other, logical reason i can think of for dragging their feet, and people won’t like this, is the FO likes the DL options in this draft class much more than everyone else. I don’t know who they may be targetting, but it’s all I got
I am rather certain that there isn’t a GM in the NFL that believes he can fix a non-existent pass rush in one off-season through the draft. The kids are just untested and you don’t know how they are going to work out against NFL offensive lineman.
Sometimes you get lucky and get a Reggie White or Cliff Avril. Most of the time you get a LJ Collier.
Another Devil’s Advocate take.
Maybe our FO is emphasizing quality backups in response to the 17 game season and low R1 bye likelihood. They might begin letting every starter have a healthy game off during the season. You can win a lot of games, but if your the team in the playoffs with many injuries (like SEA last year), you’re not gonna make it.
The reality is teams with multiple 15M+/year contracts now have higher risk of a derailed season when their superstars go down and the practice squad player needs to play multiple weeks. Not saying we don’t need superstars, but load management and quality backups will absolutely play a larger role going forward in the NFL.
Todd — please don’t take this personally. It’s not personal trust me. And I appreciate your comment.
But I can’t believe somebody just wrote that.
None taken. Just trying to think of reasons for them being stingy.
I like it. Don’t think it’s right, but I like that you tried it out. Inventive.
If that was the case they’d gone after all the other “bleh” level talent that has signed…Shaq Lawson etc.
A team built entirely with quality backups will never win a Super Bowl.
Maybe make the playoffs here and there if you also have a great quarterback and head coach, but beyond that, forget about it.
You prioritize great starters, you find good backups where you can (later rounds of the draft, UDFA)
In all reality, I must say the Seahawks are the team that is most imperiled by this at the present time. If Russell Wilson goes down for the season in the first game, we would be likely looking at a top-3 position the following year, that’s how bad we would be.
Top-3 draft position
Weird to say but I’d rather the XFL stick around than dissolve, even if it means not being able to bring in a guy like PJ Walker.
Interesting how Ifedi’s market seems ice cold. I wonder where he will end up and for how much.
He might end up with us for something like $5M/yr for 3 years? Just guessing, but we have already spent on O-line.
He is a perfect one year deal candidate for someone. I havent even heard a peep about him.
Maybe turn Ifedi around.
Have him play the role Red Bryant used to play?
How about paying him to play for another team in our division so we get a little help with penalties on the other side of the ball. I know that’s kind of rude, but it is what it is.
👌🏻
I think the LEO spot is more important than the 5T.
Maybe they are working on a larger trade/deal for a LEO which limits their ability to spend big on the 5T.
It’s also possible that they are playing with fire again and might get burned. It seemed like that happened last year with the RD1 pick of Collier. They were so deflated in the press conference after that pick.
They were. I think they expected Rashan Gary and Brian Burns to last. And they didn’t. And then Johnathan Abram left the board.
If I remember correctly they could have drafted Sweat, but traded down. Maybe they were scared off by his heart condition. I think they wanted Gary really badly, but Burns had a great rookie season.
They could’ve but people often forget the heart defect and that’s why he dropped. I couldn’t draft Sweat and ask him to run around a football field knowing that. Clearly lots of teams felt the same way.
In addition to his health concerns, is that his build is not very typical and nobody knew if it would work in the NFL. Similar to Russ, Bobby, Sherman nobody knew before that those builds would work out as they did. Seattle never had such a body on their line. It’s hard to blame the ones that missed on him and we should rather give props to those that didn’t.
I’ll give you Sherm and Russ, but what was wrong with Bobby’s body??
Nothing! But back then the NFL wasn’t in love with super fast LB I think. Also he might have been to short for some teams. Not exactly sure tho its been a long time.
To be fair, when Bobby entered the league big thumpers in the middle were still considered the prototype. He was considered under size.
Clowney is not as good as he thinks he is. That’s what it really boils down to for me. As of now, the Hawks value him more than any team that needed a DE and had the CAP space for him. If he’s teed off at Hawks, well eff him. The Hawks already agreed to not tag him (something they’ll probably never do again), are offering him more than anyone else, and have pretty much brought him into one of the finest franchises for players with an adoring fan base.
As you can see, I’m getting a little sick of Clowney now. He’s effing us up now when all we’ve done is do him a solid from beginning till now.
End rant.
Yeah, Clowney is making himself look bad. Reports say he wants a record breaking deal…He’s injured/been injured, had 3 sacks last year and seems to have too high of an opinion of himself. Any takers?
If another teams gives him that huge contract he wants… at this point I won’t bat an eye.
In this particular case, in this particular situation, at this particular time, I’m more frustrated with team Clowney than with team PC/JS. Boo-hoo…the market’s been set for you and it’s not what you expected. I thought you wanted to play for a good franchise that’s set upon winning? A franchise that has done nothing but put up the most amount of money for you, shown the most amount of respect for you market-wise, and by your indecision/inaction are basically effing them up.
If I’m frustrated with team PC/JS it’s that they didn’t see this coming enough because Plan B doesn’t seem to be in sight, at least a Plan B that addresses what everyone knew to be their top priority.
I guess I’ll just sit back and wait. Nothing else to do during my quarantine. 🙂
+12. Nice post.
Thanks. Best to you in these times.
Clowney and his agent probably believe they have the Hawks’ front office in a bit of a pinch, and are doing everything they can to leverage the situation in their favor. Undoubtedly, the Hawks really want him back. At this point in the process, many fans and pundits seem to be assuming that the Hawks and Clowney are only a few million apart, and fans are frustrated that the Hawk’s front office won’t pony up the extra two million. My speculation is that Clowney is standing very firm on wanting $24-25 million a year even though other teams have made big splashes and the free agent $$$ are drying up. In the meantime, the Hawks are probably offering something like $18 million a year. As another poster earlier in this thread mentioned, the rhetoric now is that Clowney is looking at signing a one year deal so that he can re-enter the market with a higher salary cap next season. A one-year deal would be very difficult for the Hawks, because they wouldn’t be able to reduce his cap-hit through a signing bonus, and it would hinder them from some of the other deals they would like to make this off-season. Couple that with the rumor/report that the Eagles have made a substantial offer to Jacksonville for Ngakoue (which might be smoke from Clowney’s camp), and it is doubtful Seattle would want to give up that compensation in addition to paying the salary Ngakoue would demand. Clowney doesn’t want to sign a one-year deal. I suspect his determination to get $24-25 million a season is the only thing holding this up. If Clowney was willing to accept $20-21 million, my guess is that the deal would already have been done. As it is, the Seahawks have too many needs to fill. If I’m right, and if Clowney is being as stubborn as I think, this does not bode well for the Hawks the longer this drags out…and he is going to lose out as well if he signs a one year deal and gets hurt again. Then again, perhaps his gamble will pay off for him next year.
I totally understand where you are coming from and agree with you partly. Clowney while being a special athlete does not what is paid highly in the NFL – rush the passer – get to the QB.
Bobby Wagner was the best LB in the game when he signed his deal but he will still make less than those DE.
I feel like Clowney is still in his college mindset of being “the guy” of his position.
All that being said, we don’t know anything about him right now. Maybe the waiting is just part of his strategy or he has to figure out something else. So lets not judge him before we know something for sure.
Really Paul, Clowney is not as good as he thinks he is. Then why didn’t they pick up someone else, hit the ground aggressively knowing they needed to go another direction because Clowney wasn’t any good? They needed 2 ends at the start of the week. They still need 2, and nothing has happened.
It’s the market that decides how valuable a player is. The market is telling him that he isn’t as valuable as he thought he was. Simple as that. I think he’s valuable for the Hawks, but only valuable to the degree that he’s complement on the other end by someone with a more productive skill set in getting to the QB. We’re trying to get to the next level here.
On a side note, if Clowney was smart he’d take that 18-19 million a year from the Hawks knowing he’s paying zero state income tax in our state, and knowing that he can take a big chunk of his bonus money and buy quality stocks with a big chunk of it at fire-sale prices in the coming weeks.
He’d make up the difference between what he thought he was worth and the reality of it in this way, rather than playing in a state with an income tax on a one year prove-it contract and not investing a big chunk of his bonus money here in quality stocks that well might be up 50% in value in a few year’s time.
Perhaps Clowney, if he knows his best option now is a one-year deal in order to hopefully increase his value next season, would prefer a defensive fit better than the one that Seattle has to offer in order to pad his stats (sacks in particular). Maybe a team that has at least one other dominant pass rusher would keep the double teams off him and thus he would get more sacks and also his body wouldn’t take such abuse.
Not to sound off-putting about your post…not my intention…but Clowney had JJ Watt on the other side of the line from him. If he couldn’t pad his stats then, then why any more now?
Relating to other news, I am very surprised by the Broncos signing Melvin Gordon. They have Lindsey and Freeman already, along with Booker I believe. Seems like an odd signing at that price.
I’d say why not. Good player. Decent but not great contract. They have cap space. Division rival. Go for it.
I thought it was a pretty decent move actually. At least they are making moves.
Lindsay is a 5 foot 8 190 lb UDFA so who knows how much staying power he has. Booker missed the entire season with injury.
Gordon is a blue chip guy they’re bringing in for a reasonable amount. Running back is the most physically demanding position to play in the league. It’s best to have a stable.
Gordon and Lindsay is a legit 1-2 punch. Much better than Lindsay and Freeman. Now they can truly pound the rock the way they want, and are just 1 WR away from having a nice offense around Drew Lock
They should bring back Sanders on the cheap…
One thing we talk a lot about when it comes to the draft is character and fit to the culture. This is our approach since Pete and John arrived. Similar to the Patriots Pete puts the culture and system first. Maybe they saw those fits with the OLine guys but didn’t see it in some of those DLiners. On another note how many relevant Dlineman did we miss so far?
Fowler – Pauline reported he wanted to join the Falcons so he might have never been an option.
Campbell – They already signed a DT with Reed, they have shown they can find value from the DT spot for cheap, maybe they have Davis in mind as their draft choice.
Quinn – Is he a LEO? I don’t know too much about him tbh.
Then I don’t see many names that we have missed that were an option for us. I see many guys that could have gotten a shot but went rather expensive like Beasley and are not proven talents.
We also need to keep in mind that they have guys our FO must expect to become more of a factor. Green and Collier need to be part of their plan for next year so is Poona probably. Using early draft picks and then buy expensive FA when they don’t quite work out in the first years is not a very sustainable aproach and this is what Pete and John are trying to build – sustainable success.
If they sign Clowney and or Griffen I could see our Dline being improved still.
1. Clowney was barely healthy if he is more healthy and with us next year he will have more production.
2. Improvement of Green/Collier/Poona
3. Addition of Irvin. He is not as important as a full time starter but he brings something we didn’t have last year.
4. Scheme. I trust our coaches to have learned a lesson from last year and be able to manufactor more pass rush and also players like Clowney could be used more effectively after a full offseason.
I didn’t write this with the intetion to disagree with Rob’s piece. I just wanted to give a few possible reasonings that explain their moves and or help us being more optimistic about all this.
Doesn’t seem likely but I like your optimism.
Who would have thought we would have a solid CB1 going into the season?
Optimism is all we have at the moment!
Everything’s fine then. Just peachy.
C’mon Rob! Maybe we can resign Ziggy and get a bounce back. Woo…
‘Just needs a bit more coaching’
That’s funny, but this is a genuine concern of mine. I worry that maybe Pete actually thinks they can coach another 15-20 sacks out of this group.
Doubtful
Doubtful that they think that, or doubtful that they would be successful?
*Shouts frantically into the air* “Pete Carroll and John Schneider, where have your backbones gone? Where are your guts and grit? Where is the always compete and win forever mentality?”
RAWR!!!! Yell it Aaron! 🙂 (feel the exact same way!)
Get ‘er done already!
I see the off season as 3D chess.
32 teams each wanting yearly perfection and having 3 key tools; Free Agency, Trades and the Draft and one major impediment – the dreaded cap.
I learned to juggle as a child and could keep three oranges in the air far longer than anyone wanted to stand and watch me do it. As a young adult my wife to be’s cat – Floyd – could watch me until eventually one of the oranges fell to the floor. Floyd would immediately run over to it and bat it about before going to his bed for a lie down.
My wife married me because she thought Floyd couldn’t be wrong and there must be something interesting about me and she couldn’t afford to watch her biological clock run down any further – she had waited decades and fortunately for her – there I was – inexplicably, still available. All the rich, good lookin’, guys were off the board and she needed at least a guy with a steady job and a debonair manner. At least I had a steady job 🙂
The point is several jugglers will go home with praise and admiration directed their way. A few will go home with an invite for next year’s juggling extravaganza and some, such as I, will go home with three oranges worth of orange juice.
None of the 32 can win a Gold Medal every year, just too many other oranges flying left and right and not enough truly great jugglers.
Let’s face it, sometimes shit just happens. Even to the best of us. Even to me.
Love it! Rock on, Roger!
That was a great post!
Let’s sign Floyd up. Sounds like he’s got an eye for talent.
However, sometimes the juice is worth the squeeze. Just pay Clowney already.
I honestly feel if Hawks haven’t inked Clowney by the end of the day today, he will be gone. Likely on a one year prove it deal with another team, like the Titans. I just don’t understand the Hawks moves thus far in FA with their acknowledgement (and everyone else knows) of how bad their D-line was last year and that it was a priority to fix it in FA. So far, really disappointing FA for our Hawks.
Clowney is still impeded by the medicals though. As much as he wishes for it to happen, teams want to check him out. He doesn’t hold all the cards.
Not concerned yet
They have probably made an under 20m offer that Clowney is not accepting yet.
I also think they have the option to meet his best offer as one of the agreements to not tag him.
He has not gotten an offer to his liking and thus is still waiting.
So everyone waits on him.
Hawks are making moves based on what they feel their best offer to him will be. They most likely have a time limit that they will wait.
This was my thought as well…time to move on though…the ship is getting ready to sail.
Ok. At what point will you be?
probably never. I have bigger things in my life to worry about. The Seahawks are entertainment not life and death.
i have followed them from the beginning and have rolled with them through the ups and downs. Clowney or no I anticipate that this will not be a down year compared to the majority of NFL teams. PC/JS will build a competitive team. Maybe not a super bowl team but it will be entertaining.
I wonder if PC/JS have previously set a deadline in their recent conversations with Clowney and/or his agent? If they haven’t, they need to do it now, perhaps that deadline is say Saturday at noon, or Monday at 9-AM, etc. IMO it is completely justified for PC/JS to set a deadline so that they can move on and seek other alternatives in the event that Clowney isn’t ready to sign their outstanding offer (or perhaps sign on condition they add 1-2 million to the pot). If we are all impatient for something to go down, I’d imagine PC/JS are at their wits end, very much justifying a deadline date & time to be established (if one hasn’t already been set.)
Scariest thing I’ve read all week…
“A lot will depend on where Clowney signs, and then Griffen could end up being an option B for a team that doesn’t get Clowney.”- Chris Tomasson
I somewhat like Griffen + Clowney. Griffen instead of Clowney? It’s like 32 climbers ascend Mt Everest only to find there’s just enough room for one. “No big deal, the rest of you just back up 10 paces.” It’s quite a drop from A to B.
This is why I’m losing sleep. There’s one peak. One Clowney. There is a finite supply of that which we desperately need. You either win the lotto…or you get punched. In the sack. By a runaway truck. Full of crocodiles.
Prepare for a sack punching.
Did you really have to throw in the crocodiles…?
I get the point you’re trying to make, but that line of reasoning is just a crock.
Didn’t Seattle offer him $18.5 mil and turned it down for more? Or is that just rumor?
The only figure I’ve heard is that he was seeking in the $21m neighborhood, but I haven’t heard anything specific about their best offer.
I was thinking about this today and there are a few different kinds of offseasons. Sometimes you have a lot of options and can move to improve your roster quickly (Buffalo, Indy this year). Sometimes you have to sort out the consequences of your past moves and wind up declining in quality (Rams, Vikings). Sometimes you just want to keep your players as best you can and run it back (Cowboys). A lot of fans probably thought we were going to be more like Buffalo or Indy this year, but we may have underrated just how many FAs of our own we needed to resign. It might be a year where we try to not go backward on the O-line or D-line and make good draft picks to improve. Luckily, we have enough picks for us to actually have a decent draft… but we shouldn’t expect them to sign more than 1 more quality D lineman. I personally hope it’s Clowney on a one-year deal, letting us draft another edge rusher and hope that we can actually develop some of those linemen.
In other NFCW news,
The 49ers could very easily use their two first round picks to nab Isaiah Simmons.
Just a thought. Think they’d do it?
Well I hope not
If the Whiners are smart they’ll get a QB at 13. Calling it right now – Jimmy G. Will never hoist the Lombardi… That is unless he winds up playing for New England, in which case all bets are off
For those who are into this sort of stuff (and cause I’m bored of waiting), Clowney just followed the Titans’ PFF Analyst on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/titansfilmroom/status/1241111176752148481
*Instagram (whatever…)
Also some Titans players as I read
Does anyone remember Ziggy’s beeper number? Get this off to him right away…
12. 911. 94
This will all make sense when they trade up for Chase Young.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/138/highresrollsafe.jpg
That’s what I was thinking. Maybe they are putting a trade together to get a top pick?
Well last year they did not have any pass rushers until after the draft. They sign Ansah and then traded for Clowney. I remember thinking that was going to be a good pass rush team, and hope that we would be a force to reckon with in the league. That obviously did not happen on the defensive side of the ball, but our offense was pretty good. My best guess is the pass rush hasn’t come to them this off season so they are shoring up the offense with what is coming to them. They still know this needs to be addressed and will do something yet, but it might not happen until after the draft now. Maybe they will make a splash trade yet, or maybe they will sign a couple of guys that we hope will get the job done. I have just lost all my excitement for this off season now and have lost all hope of a Hawks-Chiefs Superbowl. I wanted to see Wilson out ball Mahomes on the biggest stage. Oh well.
It’s amazing that while Calais Campbell, Stefon Diggs, DeAndre Hopkins, DeForest Buckner and Tom Brady ‘came’ to other teams.
Brandon Shell came to us.
Did he come to us, or did we get caught desperate dumpster diving?
Its just plain arrogance by pete and JS if they let Clowney walk and we dont dont obtain Yannick/Jones/Judon.. my thoughts on our management will surely change if they really do just sign old cheap veteran retreads to fix the dline.
At this point- heres hoping that they are even looking at Everson Griffen as an option.
There is no reason to let Clowney walk. At all. Especially if the alternative is trading premium draft capital and having to pay a similar contract. Just pay Clowney. Unfortunately, it feels like it’s inevitable that he’s going to be a titan. If the squeeze was going to work, then it would’ve worked by now. He might take a similar contract with another contender just despite the Seahawks at this point.
Had the Seahawks give up a first round pick for YN and Campbell that would’ve been one thing, but I’m with Rob. None of this makes any sense
I hear everyone about the lack of activity to this point, it’s very frustrating. But nobody REALLY knows what the Seahawks have offered or what Clowney is asking for. What if Clowney isn’t budging on wanting 23-25? Does everyone think they should just drop their gloves and say ok?
No.
If that’s what he’s asking for — move on and sign someone else.
I would have went into legal tampering period offering Armstead and Clowney 4/70.
Might have got Armstead.
It doesn’t do the organization any good to bid against itself.
How is that bidding against oneself?
I posted this in the wrong place. LOL My response had to do with the Hawks raising their offer for Clowney. Why? That’s bidding against oneself.
More than anything, I just want to hear from PCJS. This all feels out of character. I get frustrated with the people saying “they’re always quiet to start FA.” They are typically aggressive with there needs. Addressing them where they are strong. Last year was relatively weak on the DL in FA but strong in the draft. This year the opposite is true. I respect them enough to trust they have/had a plan. I hope that all of this will be much ado about nothing but I can’t shake the feeling that they had one plan going into free agency and when it didn’t work out they didn’t adapt quick enough. So when all of this is said and done, I would love an explanation or at least a peak behind the curtain.
Thanks to coronavirus, I bet we don’t hear from them again until after the draft.
A lot of companies have online signing so that should not be a problem. Signing conditioned on passing a physical.
I do not see that the virus should stop the whole process or prevent Pete or John from making or leaking announcements.
they are choosing not to speak.
And therein lies the problem, due to corona I have much more time on my hands to worry about free agency (I am well aware that if that’s my problem during times like these I have no room to complain!).
It cannot he said enough but thank you for this blog Rob. I read a lot, for work and pleasure. Regardless of topic, the consistent high quality of the content (and to be fair of the regular commentators like Sea Mode) is second to none, regardless of topic.
Thanks, appreciate the kind words Murphy.
If they traded Clark, last year, only to trade for Ngakoue, this year, I’m going to be confused.
Missed opportunity to run Clowney, Clark and Wagz out there, last year, esp. considering Clark’s cap hit was less than what we paid Ansah. Missed opportunity.
One step forward, one step back. Frustrating.
I actually liked the Clark trade. Cap room and two fairly high picks. Problem was Collier was the their top DL available when the pick came around.
Funny to think how bad they would’ve been last season if Clowney and Diggs hadn’t fallen into their lap for very little compensation.
Then again, no one really stepped up when Clowney was drawing those double teams, so that kinda took away some of his value.
Same. At the time, I loved the trade, thinking they’d reallocate the cap saving and draft some talent.
I don’t like missing on free agents, then having to trade and pay to fill needs. If they end up trading a 1st for the right to pay Ngakoue $20 million APY, it’s a wash, opportunity missed. Probably in the minority, but I liked Clark’s fit on this team better than Ngakoue’s.
I wish they woulda just kept Clark. Understood why they traded him, just wasn’t a fan of it.
I thought they would turn the defense over to Clark and Reed. Instead they re-signed Wagner and Wright, brought in Clowney and Ansah.
Is HE gone yet?
Okay here is my 4D chess idea.
Since this draft is loaded with offensive linemen and WR, Seahawks know a lot of WRs and OL will go early. I think they fell with their draft position they will not be able to capitalize on the strength of the draft. Which is kinda what happened last year with Collier, it was a loaded DL class but we picked too late.
I think using that same logic they think that OL and WR will come off early, which will result in great value at the DL position. Because they are confident in getting the DL they wanted in the draft, maybe they were not as motivated to pay a huge number for Clowney.
WE ZIG WHEN PEOPLE ZAG.
What great value?
Who?
Who is the great defensive player who is lasting all the way to #27?
And what if this assertion is incorrect and actually, the O-liners and WR’s are still there at #27.
There’s no way this is their thinking.
Yeah I am not really convinced on my own theory, just throwing some crazy ideas out there lol.
By the way Rob what do you think about that one scout on Bob McGinn’s report who talked about Simmons so negatively. I was frankly stunned, seems like he thinks he is a tweener.
“He is not a tough, physical football player. He’s not a hitter. Doesn’t break down well. I don’t get it. Down in and down out, he’s not a factor or a difference-maker.”.
I was surprised, yes. I have an article ready to roll on Bob McGinn’s insider notes. I’ve just had to have a moan for a couple of days first.
That’s exactly what he is. He was a rover at Clemson. Not what he’ll be in the NFL.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that JS and PC’s hands may be tied. As I suggested earlier, perhaps they are more limited in the cash they have to spend at one time than they were when Paul was alive. It could be they arent being allowed to sign off on huge guarantees until their own docs can do a physical. Or perhaps PC and JS themselves are being hypercareful after Chancellor to not pay two years plus of salary to anyone but Russ. Not much else makes sense. They still need to add two rushers and a DT.
Im sure they have a plan, but their plans have failed before. Im betting its a combo of stuff from above. Fingers crossed….
They literally were able to sign off on massive guarantees less than a year ago on two players.
That isn’t the issue here.
Yes, one was Wilson our QB, and the other was Wagner, the ultimate Company Man and their chosen leader of the defense. And the deal with Wags was drawn out, and it was apparent Seattle wasnt thrilled with the concessions they were forced to make. Wags worked his leverage to the max, as no player before or since. Plus, that was before Covid. If anyone thinks the Super Rich arent taking the business implications of the virus seriously, they are much mistaken.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I believe the uncertainty of covid is impacting big money deals across the board, but especially here, where our new owner does not control the same wealth as the last.
So basically they have done what you said they haven’t… and now you’re trying to talk your way out of it?
There’s no ‘agree to disagree’. Sometimes it’s OK to accept the other person is right.
Jody Allen could have gambled Paul’s fortune away at the Muckleshoot and it would have zero effect on Hawks’ player salary budget. That money is set aside and protected in escrow with layer upon layer of physical and financial guaranty. She could not impinge their ability to spend up to the cap if she tried. She could fire them…before or after. But that money is under the control of Pete & John and under the watchful eye of the N, the F and the L.
My guess is Clowney being unhappy with his market to the point where he’s considering a one year deal, was unforseen. Can’t really do any cap manipulation on a one year deal.
If all they end up with is Clowney for one year, with Irvin being the next best pass rusher, shoot, don’t even bother with Clowney then. Fill the roster out and let the extra money roll into next year. Don’t pay 20ish to Clowney for one year. That’s a move to make if that puts you over the top. That’s not the reality of this current Hawks team.
Truly strange situation. Looked fairly simple to me. Guess that’s not the case.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see a big surprise trade though. You know they’re not just sittin around waitin.
Sitting around waiting appears to be exactly their activity at the moment.
05:11 pm pacific time. still nothing… what a bummer.
I wouldn’t expect any updates until next week now.
thanks for keeping us even keeled, rob.
wash your hands. keep your promises. play banana grams.
send up a flare if anything changes. go hawks.
I’m going to call it. Not what I want but…
Clowney to Tenn
Ngakoue to Philly
Griffen to Seattle
That will not be acceptable.
Would it be crazy to expect Griffen to have more sacks then Clowney last season?
Gross.
Don’t like it, but agree.
I actually think something might go down this weekend. Call it a hunch.
It is quiet, too quiet. No chatter about any of the common guys we have bandied about.
Perhaps Clowney wants Seattle to make a move, to prove they are serious about upgrading the DL, then he will sign for a bit less (15M for 4 years with a decent singing bonus and mostly guaranteed. Seattle is then trying to get Griffen (which would explain his cryptic tweet earlier today) and/or trade for a player to satisfy the demand…. or both.
At the very least, it is a welcome distraction from the real world.
Sorry Charlie, l just don’t see that happening…
Hey, yeah-speaking of “hearing from JS/PC”, I get that trad-style pressers are off the table in this situation, but you’d think that a team with all their ties to big-tech could at least throw some kind of conference-call style statement to a fan base currently held voluntarily căptive in their rooms. I mean, it feels like we (the customer, after all) have been left twisting in the wind.
At some point, even given a trụckload of faith and trust, patience sours like milk left out on the counter and turns to frustration. I’d hate to see a sense of betrayal set in like salmonella. If there are hidden reasons why the front office is at present unable to “make it happen”, c’mon guys, at least throw us hoi polloi a bone here!
Wait a second, I just realized Defensive End Everson Griffen played for PC at USC…. wowza
Griffen is a nice side piece at this stage of his career. Him, Irvin, and a couple rookies doesn’t exactly inspire much confidence.
No, I understand. But as part of a package… he could be the right fit. I wonder what type of deal he is looking for overall… 3yr/30m, but most likely less than that now…. local talk radio was talking about Green needing to take a step this season and Seattle might believe he can become a more dynamic piece of the puzzle.
8-10m/yr
> Chris Tomasson of the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported that the Vikings never made a specific offer to Griffen because of their salary-cap constraints but that Griffen is thought to want $8-10 million a year.
2-3 years maybe, with first year guaranteed?
I disagree. Griffen at LEO and Irvin in rotation off the edge would be a significant upgrade from last year.
5T can be sorted more easily than LEO. Before Clowney and Bennett, we had Red Bryant as a successful 5T. I think too much emphasis is being placed on Clowney.
I don’t.
If they can’t get Clowney signed and get Griffen, I’d be willing to bet they trade for someone else as well.
Well of course you don’t. You’re the person I disagreed with.
You down played Griffen as a side piece and Irvin in combo as uninspiring. I get that, but it’s still a significant upgrade on that side of the DL vs. last year. We’re talking about pressuring the QB. Clowney is disruptive and great v. the run, but he’s not a high vol QB pass rush DE. I think Irvin and Griffin combined for 16 sacks last year v. 3 for Clowney.
I don’t think it’s zero sum either. Griffen and Clowney will demand different contracts. We should be able to add at 5T or other positions in addition to Griffen.
You honestly think Griffen + Bruce is adequate???
It’s an improvement over last year.
So would me and you!
Could we maybe be overthinking this? We are assuming that PC and JS are lowballing their offer, or attempting to carry out some intricate ill-advised plan, or following some mystery roster-bulding strategy, or planning some down-the-road transaction, or penciling a yet-to-be-drafted prospect into the lineup, or…….. Maybe Clowney just doesn’t want to be in Seattle for one reason or another and is looking elsewhere. It takes two to tango.
It’s been repeatedly reported that Clowney loved it in Seattle and wants to come back.
I know, and that could very well be true. But it could also be like going on a date with someone and being told “that was fun, I would love to go out again” only to have your calls go unreturned… not that that’s ever happened to me ;>) People aren’t always sincere.
They aren’t — but multiple reports have indicated Clowney loved it here. And while I can imagine a partner getting out of an awkward social situation by going along with the pretence of a second date… I’m not sure why Clowney would be putting out those noises if he actually doesn’t want to return.
OK, let’s try to think positively here. Maybe what’s really happening behind the scenes is they’re prepping to release more cap Room in the form of player releases and perhaps restructuring someone like Justin Britt. As it was pointed out above, Clowney probably can’t take a one prove it deal Has the most suitable teams don’t have enough cap Room for a single year hit like that. Wasn’t Sunday the day that a lot of these player cuts had to be made? Maybe that’s our new deadline.
You could be right.
A part of me wonders if Seattle is doing the same the other way around. Are they waiting on someone to be cut? Are they trying to swing a trade for someone who hasn’t been rumored (Ngakoue, Judon)?
And then a part of me thinks, oh no. They gonna try and build this thing (D-line) back up through the draft?
So cut the players earlier and get something done.
They don’t have to wait for this deadline.
So, two options. PCJS are worse at their job than a bunch of randos (and Rob who to be fair is the best journo in the biz about the Hawks) or there is a LOT of non public info we aren’t privy to that makes the situation reasonable.
I get being frustrated. I wish we had Clowney, Griffen, and Ngakoue locked up right now. But I also recognize I’m an electrician and PCJS are one of the very best combos at team building in the league. Ultimately I am willing to let it play out and see what happens.
Of course the latter comes into play. But I also think it’s fair to wonder if PC/JS have GOTTEN worse at this.
Fair, but it’s a results oriented league and they’ve been the most successful outside of the Patriots for the last what, 7ish years or so? And the Pats are in league with Satan so hardly a fair comp.
Listen — I’d never for a second claim to know more than PCJS. That would be ridiculous.
But critiquing the lack of activity in free agency doesn’t require a PHD in coaching or front office work.
As fans we’re allowed to look at what they’re doing and talk about it.
I am as equally frustrated/perplexed by the holding pattern we are currently in. In looking at OvertheCap, we currently have about $18.3M currently available. Clearing Dickson off the books would give us about $3M and once TT is traded/cut, we’d have another $2.1M available. That gets us to $23.4M roughly. I understand we roughly set aside $5M for the draft which kicks us down to $18.4M. With some other cuts like Nick Bellore ($900K) and a few other RFA tenders, we could easily save another $4-7M. So that puts us back into the $24-28M window.
Clowney: I have no idea what Clowney will actually get, but his asking price of the reported “$21-23M/yr” is laughable. No one is paying that to a DE that doesn’t produce sacks. I understand his role is more than just sacks, but its what a lot of people look at. Also he has a history of not staying on the field which doesn’t help his case. The rumbles of him taking a 1-year prove it deal could help/hinder us. I think we stay to the offer we made him and give him a deadline.
Griffen: I would make him the priority! Get him on board and see who follows along. Am I wrong to think we can sign Griffen for $10-12M? In this scenario, we get Griffen on the books and know exactly what we’d need to due to re-sign Clowney…
TRADE: If Clowney departs (TEN maybe), then why not go hard after Judon or Ngakoue (my choice). Judon’s FT is $15.8M and Ngakoue’s is $17.8M. Why not trade our first rd pick for one of those guys? I don’t personally see a pass rusher available @27 that would be better than Ngakoue/Judon.
If Clowney doesn’t return, I’d be happy with Griffen/Ngakoue and the other guys to fill in spaces. Greene, Collier, Jackson and Irvin would fill in spots and I think that puts us in a much better place than last year.
One question Rob. I know you mentioned the TE position and us just collecting bodies. We have brought in Olsen ($6.9M), Dickson is still around ($3M), Hollister ($3.3M), Dissly ($910K) and Willson ($ unknown). With Hollister receiving a 2nd rd tender, can that cap number be reduced at all? I could see us carrying Olsen, Hollister, Willson and Dissly, but $14M invest at the TE position does seem a bit excessive.
Thoughts?
Just a note for your cap math: that $18.3 number at OTC does not include Irvin, Ogbueghi, or Shell’s cap number, because nobody is really sure what they will be.
Ogbuehi is on a one year deal, so if he hits his incentives, that is $3.3m.
Shell has a $5.5m APY and Seattle has not aggressively ‘backloaded’ any other contracts this offseason (about $2.5m in backloading total over the $30m+ they have signed).
Irvin’s contract is a complete unknown, unless news hit that I missed, but he made $4m last year and had a decent year. Some suspect it will be closer to league minimum but I doubt it personally. I figure it is closer to what he made last year than league minimum.
The most compelling numbers I have seen for Seattle’s current available cap, before those contracts and accounting for draft, practice squad, and IR reservation, is around $12m, which means that Seattle is currently about out of money.
They have many avenues for creating more, but many of those avenues involve creating more holes in the roster.
You are 100% current. I just went back and noticed that. Thank you for catching that.
I totally agree that creating cap can be done, but it comes at a price with bodies vacating spots. When I see RFA tenders like Moore and a couple others, I really question if the likes of an Ursua/Turner could fill that position. I know that this is also a deep WR class and we have had some luck in the past finding diamonds in the rough at WR. Moore’s inconsistency could easily be replaced and his $2.1M could be easily spent elsewhere.
I am certain there is a plan… It may not be to the speed of our liking, but I’d find it hard to believe the FO is just sitting on their hands and waiting for all the good FAs to get picked up
$12M? That’s it? Yikes, that explains things more than any theory I’ve seen tossed out.
So, assuming we cut Dickson, TT & let’s say Bellore, that only gets us enough to offer Clowney $18M in order to break even!?!?!?
So we need to cut Britt plus (assuming we do get Clowney to go for a $18M deal) just to make a $8M offer to Griffen?
Is this what you’re saying King?
I think you missed the part where the three most recent contracts aren’t accounted for in the $12m number.
As for what I am saying, I am just putting out the numbers that, to the best of my knowledge, are factual with regard to Seattle’s cap space and spending currently.
Seattle can still do quite a bit to squeeze in a couple of big contracts. There are multiple ways they might approach that, but the one opinion I have on that is that none of those cap creating machinations is without repercussions.
I think it’s extremely excessive when you’re refusing to pay Clowney to make sure he’s back.
I’m well aware of the things Pete has said publicly – however… Wasn’t the whole concept of the LEO position in it’s original iteration such that it could maximize production from a player the rest of the league had no use for?? Chris Clemons was an afterthought in Philadelphia, then comes here and puts up 11+ sacks in 3 straight seasons. If we’re not going to be aggressive to fill this need (and clearly they haven’t been) Shouldn’t we at least line up a few options in this vein?
No. That’s never been the case. It’s always been about having a dynamic pass rusher.
Heck — they spent the #15 pick in the draft on a LEO in 2012.
I am both perplexed and saddened by how PC/JS are handling this off season. Signing JAG oline, not addressing the pass rush, just being too cute and or patient. True, it could be out of their hands, but are they truly doing everything they can to make this a better team? Sure doesn’t feel like it at the moment.
I think it comes down to, PCJS simply won’t make moves because they are desperate.
Giving Fowler that deal is desperate. If our DL was solid we’d never make that deal.
Acquiring a 34 year old DT for three years and giving good money is desperate.
Most of the other deals are deals we wouldn’t do absent the huge gaping hole in the DL.
Call it stubbornness, call it “win forever”, rightly or wrongly no one backs PCJS into a corner. If they don’t get a good deal on a player they won’t make it, they won’t overpay.
OK I can buy into some of that. However, when you get to the point of saying, I’m not getting what I want and so I’m not going to do that deal, and not paying a little extra and getting the deal done puts your team at a significant disadvantage and risk, you really need to rethink that logic. Stubbornness only has value up to a point and then it becomes reckless and harmful. Not saying we’re absolutely there right now, but if we’re not, it sure feels like we’re flirting with it.
Devil’s Advocate here…
Who defines “overpaying?” Whatever a guy gets offered and accepts is technically “market value.” I’d love to get a Ferrari for $25K…but it’s not happening. Pass Rush costs money, even if it is just average pass rush – that’s what the market is doing for that entity.
PC/JS are now jeopardizing this team from even reaching status quo – in a year which the team fielded arguably the worst pass rush in the NFL. That is flat out unacceptable. There are plenty of cuts that could have been made, but they chose not to. I love KJ Wright, but it’s irresponsible for him to eat up the cap space he does at his age and with his decreasing skill set. Justin Britt. Tedric Thompson…the list goes on.
Combine this with their antics in last year’s draft – and you are witnessing a Front Office that either doesn’t know what’s doing anymore or is so full of hubris, that they think they are smarter than everyone else. They aren’t. And they need to figure it out because to Rob’s point – we have heard “this feels like 2012” for like the 3rd time now.
You will just have to wait. The stew in the slow-cooker has a ways to go yet. Take-out is not their style this time of year. When it’s fully cooked either you will like it or hate it. In the interim I hear take and bake pizza can take the edge off..
Say we had a league average d-line last year. Would you make the deal? If you weren’t desperate, would you do the deal? That is overpaying.
Adding Calais Campbell for a R5 and paying him a new deal to lower his cap hit is NOT desperate.
Being active to sign a player you want and like to solve a big need is NOT desperate.
Signing a 34 year old DT to a multiyear eight figure contract isn’t wise. Making unwise moves because of need is desperate.
There is a difference between being active to meet needs and getting bent over a barrel.
Yes, it is wise.
If you’d taken the time to actually look at the reason for it, you’ll notice it was to lower his 2020 cap hit. There won’t be any long term commitment. Plus Campbell was graded as a top-five overall DL by PFF in 2019 and his statistical production continues to be outstanding.
So no — it wasn’t desperate trading a R5 pick for Calais. That’s a nonsensical suggestion.
I think we need to let things play out. My ideal scenario of adding Reed, Clowney, Griffen and Irvin is still possible (which is crazy)
Backup plan of Ngakoue still available and the asking price is only going down.
We could even trade for Chris Jones or Von Miller. Or who knows. Life is good. Options are still plentiful and I’m glad we’re not overpaying.
Appreciate the blog and all the work that goes into it.
If Clowney goes to Tennessee and Ngakoue goes to the eagles ima start to worry though haha.
Im gonna get killed for this, but…I’m sure someone has mentioned it before, but what if we sign Clowney, say $20/year. And that’s all we do on the Dline. Use the rest to give Russ another weapon or 2? Rob mentioned Dorsett, I like that. I also like Taylor Gabriel as a speed (shifty guy) that can also take over the return duties.
Is it unthinkable that we could get Okwara, Uche, and Zuniga with our first 3 picks? I think it’s possible. I’d rather have proven veterans like everyone else, but if you paired those 3 guys with Clowney, Reed, Ford & Irvin, I’d be entertained. We don’t give up draft picks and we’d still have at least 5 other picks to fill in the gaps. Grab a RB/WR in the 3rd-4th rounds?
Like I said, I’ll probably get killed for this, but it seems like a realistic option if nothing else. Just trying to put a positive spin on this waiting game.
You are going to die… but not for this.
It’ll probably be because someone sees you carrying around the world’s last roll of tp in a public place. Keep it secret, keep it safe.
I bought 36 rolls today. I’m good for a bit. Thx DC!
I loaded up on Jameson. I know, I’m not a role model. 🙂
It’s all good Paul. I bought the booze before the TP.
It’s a close call, but you’ve got your priorities right. 🙂
With grant Delpit being projected to go later on than before
Why aren’t we talking about him as a Seahawks option
Because they already have about six safeties and they have one pass rusher and he’s 33 in November.
Cause we’ve already got too many Safeties on the roster, just spent three picks on Blair, Amadi, and Diggs, as well as desperately need to add to the DL early.
Saints signed Emanuel Sanders for a 2/$16 contract. Saints will be a tough out again this year.
Damn, I just looked at NFL Traderumors top 100 free agents list and still no sign of Ifedi. Ziggy was #67.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking <—- Seahawks fans are here
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue
I thought I had problems
you do get the reference, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v46plhmxXU4
I just want to tell you both good luck. We’re all counting on you.
I understand the need for value and all that but COULD WE GET SOMETHING DONE?
Do something that tells the rest of the NFL “Watch out! The Seahawks are mad, and they are serious”
I’m going to go with a different twist:
I think a week from now we’ll be talking about how impressive it was that JS was able to be so patient during this process, not panic and overpay, and still get the guys that he wanted all along! Remember, haste makes waste!
I think we come away from this with Clowney and Griffen to add to what we already have on the DL. Then when you put those two with Reed, Ford, Irvin, Green, and Collier – all of a sudden, we can pressure the opposing QB again!
Then I think we come away with a serviceable contributing RB like Isaiah Crowell.
I also think we come away from this with an effective 3rd WR – like Dorsett or Gordon.
Finally, I think we come away with a DB that can help us in multiple ways like Darius Randall.
So, I’m hoping that a week from now we will be able to praise our management for being patient in order to not overspend and still get the guys they wanted.
Thoughts?
Go Hawks!!
I really hope we come away with Clowney and Griffen. If we manage to get a future Leo like Okwara/Zuniga/Weaver and someone like Raekwon Davis to replace Reed in a few years, then our current and future DL look promising.
I like it Coach!
It is totally doable. I hope it happens!
LOL ok
Sure, that’s the hope. But with each day that passes the risk also increases that these guys sign somewhere else and we’re left signing Dion Jordan off the street again and listening to PC repeat over and over again how we “competed” for all these deals but just couldn’t get any done, but are excited to get Brucey back because we hated to have to lose him 5 years ago.
You’re busted SeaMode, didn’t know you’re actually coach Carroll 😀 that is the bs talk PC gives everytime things doesn’t go the team’s way. Feels too diplomatic to me so I hope we don’t have to hear another press conference like that
I was never expecting the Hawks to sign a top FA WR with the upcoming draft class being what it is, but Sanders to NO is a mule kick to the Jimmy. Seems the NFC royalty is gaining strength while we sit idle.
We still have “potential” on the roster, but gosh, when do they just go for it?
I’ve never heard of this source but let’s throw some more logs of this fire!!
https://mobile.twitter.com/thepick6com/status/1241196332599123970?s=21
I really doubt this but man if it’s true…. Pay this man
https://twitter.com/thepick6com/status/1241196332599123970?s=20
Not sure how reliable the source is so take it with a grain of salt, but he says the Seahawks offer to clowney was in the 13-14 apy range. Not even 18 like we thought our offer was.
I don’t buy it. Anyone can say anything they want on the net.
If we are only willing to pay 14 mil per year then that explains everything. lol
Corbin smith just reported that he’s full of ish.
That is a ridiculous joke.
I’m starting to wonder if the FO actually thinks Clowney+Griffin/Yannick would actually put them into SB territory. If they don’t think it will then why bother wasting money and years?
Do they have a 2 year plan? We simply don’t know at this point. All we know is that they don’t think Clowney/Yannick is worth the cost. Let’s let this play out…..even if it takes another year.
Clowney, Ngakoue, and a trade up in the draft for a difference maker, another target for RW…yes…that gives us a chance to compete for a title if things break our way.
Just MO.
not to sure
You really think we land Clowney AND Yannick at this point? What percent?
173%
Seems reasonable…
iirc there are some fans of Baylor DL James Lynch on here? Interesting dude & count me as a fan now. Kind of a bummer that he has 31 7/8″ t-rex arms because everything else seems pretty good. He was a 3-4 DE at Baylor. Could he transition to a 5 tech in a 4-3 front in the pros & possibly kick inside to 3 tech for passing downs?
May be it’s less about APY rather language in contract about guarantees, play time and incentives. Hawks FO usually pays market rate or little more in some cases. They are just trying to protect themselves should he get injured again.
Rob I have been watching some of Grant Delpit I am not sure why he keeps falling he is always around the ball he is complete package. I have no idea what is going on with pass rush but Rob do you think some of it has been had do you get physical on the guys.minor surgeries basically on the back burner for most hospital these days. Perhaps they just wanted to get younger on the D-line
Maybe the Seahawks are concerned about tJ.Clowney physical health.
Then sign someone else.
I really like Delpit. Apparently some teams don’t like his tackling (understandable) and approach.
If it’s due to medicals — it hasn’t stopped other teams getting the job done.
We can still clear another $23,068,750 in salary cap space by trading/cutting Britt, KJ, McDougald & Dickson. If that’s what it takes to land Clowney & Ngakoue we gotta sack up & pull the trigger. Let’s say goodbye to sentiment & say hello to a title shot.
Plus Tedric brings it to $25,201,750 in additional space.
A 2020 2nd + a 2021 3rd or 4th for Yannick is fine by me. Quit F’ing around & get it done!!!
On rumors about 13m offer:
“FWIW, John Clayton thinks that might be his number now as he looks for a one-year deal. But the Hawks are thought to have offered him around $17M on a longer-term deal.”
I think chances for one year deal with seahawks are not so big. Today they opted not to cut KJ and his dead money is up for 1mil.(if they plan to cut him they would probably do it today)…
We are right now on about 5mil in true cap space (no official deal for Irvin, Shell and Ogbueni yet)…
If Clowney wants only one year deal that would mean all cap hit would be for 2020…it is possible of course to put that number under cap but you would need to cut Britt and probably KJ too and than for any other new player you would need to restructure Russ contract (again it is possible too but for example if you would want to create 12mil by doing that than his cap hit for 2021 would be around 40mil)…
As “sea mode” said they still have space for one big contract , maybe even two, but short term contracts(especially one year) reduces that chances significantly.
As DC said,they could also create new 4mil by cutting McDougald, but you cant cut everyone. 😬
We will see, point is they have enough cap space to do some big things but it is not possible without cutting few starters from last year.
And this note about KJ that if they plan to cut him they would do it yesterday is litle bit of overreacting, but fact is if they cut him later instead yesterday they will lose 1mil of cap space for nothing…
I am sorry for 3 posts in a row (it would be much easier with edit button).
Obviously there’s flexibility to work with the cap as it pertains to next year, but part of that whole win forever thing is predicted on never selling out for one year. I’m not a big fan of free agency spending in general terms, although holy hell how nice would it have been to get Hopkins or Diggs. Those two literally hurt to see go elsewhere. This has been a huge thing for Clowney, and I think it’s more as validation as a player than the actual money. I think the same can be said for Earl Thomas, and how was about contracts although hands down Earl was the best safety or one of the best every year of his Career. I love Clowney as a player, but edge players are payed for sacks and as disruptive of force as he is, he just doesn’t get many of those. Really frustrating when it’s such a good match of player, and team to let a few dollars get in the way. Just sign, go get a ring and boom, instant respect and admiration. I’m still hoping for a Clowney plus something considerable like a Von Miller.
Given the current cap situation would you still be happy with having Diggs? Especially for the price?
I jumped back into LJ Collier’s tape of his rookie season with us. I want to share 2 observations.
1. There was one good snap against the Panthers where you could see his heavy hands. Besides that it was pretty rough but hey I was expecting to see only bad snaps so this one was a pleasant suprise!
2. It was shocking to see our DLineup at some snaps.
I don’t have the stats on that but how many times did Clowney-Reed-Poona-Ziggy/Green see the field together?
Collier-Woods-Poona-Jackson? Collier-Reed-Poona-Green? Jefferson-Reed-Mone-Jackson?
This clearly was not good enough. This DLine could not be fixed by adding a single player in FA. Guys like Jackson and Jefferson who have proven at this point that they are not good, got a decent snap count over the season. I think letting a guy like Jefferson walk was the first right move. Those depth players need to be better. Irvin could at least help with that.
I don’t have the stats on that but how many times did Clowney-Reed-Poona-Ziggy/Green see the field together?
Maybe we are all over thinking it. What if the Seahawks actually like this Dline class???
I mean I know most experts and analysts are saying that it is not a good class. But our scouting department obviously has much more information than anything out there publicly. Are they trying to captialize on a perceived bad dline class?
The is a seriously doubtful possibility and much more overthought than other options expressed.
Haha fair, im just spitballing. Too much fun.
Did you see testing numbers from combine?
To be fair NFL teams have access to sophisticated game speed tracking technology that gives them far more data points than the standard combine numbers. Not saying those data points are necessarily better but they undoubtedly have access to wide variety of information that is not readily available to the public.
Come on Sean. The combine was an absolute abomination for the DL.
There’s no hidden technology that means, actually, it was a great class after all.
I’ve watched it, studied it, written about it.
It’s a bad D-line class.
There’s no hidden quality here.
Rob,
Shelby Harris from the broncos is still avaliable 6.2 290 versatile defensive tackle/end with 35inch arms. Had six sacks and 9 batted passes last yr. He seems to be getting no chatter at all.
They need EDGE speed and dynamism.
More on Shelby harris. Think he could be an option.
https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/7/18/20697891/broncos-roster-shelby-harris
https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/5/29/17398626/broncos-shelby-harris-film
Liking shelby harris the more I dig into him.
https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/1240795300660416517?s=19
Are we SURE that is Big Ben and not Tom Hanks recovering from the virus and preparing for a role in Castaway 2…???
https://twitter.com/steelers/status/1241151546739621889
Brees throwing to Thomas and Sanders. Look out…
Great move. Saints are rightly going for it before Brees’ time is up.
The Saints just continue to pull cap space out there ass. Peat, Jenkins, now Sanders.
Loaded roster. I remember those days.
Zach Moss timed 4.52 electronic at a private workout at 219 lbs.
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1241106583091806209
I’m a fan of his running style and contact balance. Injuries do worry me though and make me strongly prefer Cam Akers, who is also more explosive.
Akers might jump into round two — so much potential.
Alright, I’m getting desperate playing the waiting game. I’m looking through the sack leaders list for last season, trying to get creative.
Knowing PC/JS have historically, at least, been aggressive at attacking their stated needs, which of these players would actually interest the Hawks and is there any way any of these teams would even pick up the phone on any of these players?
Trade
PIT Bud Dupree (26) 11.5 sacks
LAC Joey Bosa (24) 11.5 sacks
NYG Markus Golden (28) 10 sacks
CLE Myles Garrett (24) 10 sacks
CAR Mario Addison (32) 9.5 sacks
CIN Carlos Dunlap (30) 9 sacks (in 14 games)
PHI Brandon Graham (31) 8.5 sacks
TB Jason Pierre-Paul (30) 8.5 sacks (in 10 games)
HOU Whitney Mercilus (29) 7.5 sacks
LAC Melvin Ingram (30) 7 sacks (in 13 games)
FA
NYJ Jordan Jenkins (25) 8 sacks (in 14 games)
I’ll be honest, I know nothing about him. But he did win 18% of his snaps facing a ton of double teams, per this chart: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1235949932143575040
Tagged (just for reference)
BAL Matt Judon (27) 9.5 sacks
KC Chris Jones (25) 9 sacks (in 13 games)
JAX Yannick Ngakue (24) 8 sacks
Mario Addison signed with Buffalo
Jason Pierre Paul re-signed with TB
Markus Golden is a free agent
Bud Dupree was tagged
QJeff got double teamed less than average, but won well above average whenever he did:
https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1235950246771011584
Well, here’s at least something decent to say about Shell. He got less help than Ifedi at tackle and still managed a better pass block win rate. (league average)
https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1240734442580316163
At this point, I’ll take it.
When we are speaking about Ifedi, is it possible that he still doesnt have a team and Fant will earn 27mil in next 3 year?
Yeah, pretty surprising. I think the Hawks expected Ifedi to get swept up right away in the $10m/apy Tackle market, and there he sits…
Read somewhere that Fants deal works out to 2 years for $9-13m not 3yrs for $30m
https://www.sny.tv/jets/news/jets-agree-to-three-year-deal-with-free-agent-ot-george-fant/313066426
Everyday I wake up hoping for news, everyday met with fresh disappointment.
I wonder if a less than stellar FA leads them to be more aggressive on draft night, what if they just bring back Clowney (or even worse just get Griffen) but then trade up to get one of Kinlaw and Brown to give them an elite interior.
Clowney-Brown-Reed-Irvin might not be the worst starting 4 in the world.
Brown would fake trading into the top five or so.
Kinlaw —- there are too many question marks, as good as he looked on tape and briefly at the Senior Bowl.
I love Brown, but I dont think we’d need to move up that far. If three QBs go early, Young Okudah and Simmons could easily be the first 3 defenders. Then 1 or tackles also get drafted and that’s already 8 players off the board.
I could see a situation where he drops to Jacksonville at 9, who sure seem like a team that could be willing to move down in the draft. They seem to be making a play at Trevor rn tbh.
People are going to act surprised when New York takes him at four.
I mean, it’s possible with Gettleman, but with Dalvin Tomlison and Dexter Lawrence already there, that feels like a really poor use of resources.
They’re in a prime spot to draft their pick of the best OT tackle class in recent memory, so yeah, I would be surprised.
He loves collecting DL. Did the same at Carolina.
Doubt Brown gets passed 6 or 7 anyway.
Greg Bell reporting Hawks offer to Clowney is at 18.5/yr, showing “interest” in Griffen.
Confirming what folks here have been saying I suppose, but it’s there
Just get these deals done
My point is that Post Covid, many teams are being very careful with doling out big money, especially to injured players. Its quite possible, in my opinion, that while they grudgingly paid both Wilson (2years plus guaranteed) and Wags pre-covid, they might be less willing to do so now. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Whether the direction is coming from the Team Pres, the CEO or Allen.
Maybe JS and PC do have access to all the monies and can pay out 3 years and a huge bonus whenever thry choose. But just as likely, they are up against constraints of some kind, rather than playing harball for hardballs sake with Clowney. In my opinion, its more likely than them being ok with Griffen and Ngakoue for a first plus, or worse their Ngakoue fallback.
But none of us know whats going on inside, its just an educated guess. Dont know why my take angers people, its not personal.
Damn phone, was supposed to reply to earlier Rob comment.
I have no problem admitting when Im wrong, like with Chance Warmack.I sure got my head scrambled up on that one.
Im as frustrated as anyone. Ive been annoyed with thir failed attempts at cheap oline vets, bad draft picks, and the recent bungling of the dline. Anyway you slice it, so far Seattle’s handling of the Clark deal and last years first round was at least thus far a failure, to say nothing of all the money we paid Ansah.
So Im anxious to see some viable vet pass rush signed too.
It’s not an educated guess — it’s baseless speculation. There’s no evidence whatsoever to indicate this. The only evidence is that they are willing to do what we’re talking about (RW & BW) and now you’re trying to carry it on.
Even the Bengals are spending money in FA. There’s no way the Seahawks have suddenly decided to close the wallet.
Im not trying to get your goat, Rob. But you seem to be saying Seattle is either playing harball over a couple million on principle, with the chance at a SB run in the balance, or they are banking on being ok with also-ran free agents and a bad dline draft to fix their pass rush. Excuse me if Ive misunderstood yout thoughts on this, but that seems to be what you are saying.
Baseless speculation is what everyone outside Seattles front office is doing, including you, if it comes down to it. We take the info we have, and make a guess.
The Bengals are desperate, and are spending money like they never have. Its shocking. But you think all the teams have no fear of covid? They are all ok with opening the purse strings wide? I just dont think thats true. Its part of it. And if you disagree, thats fine. Im not knocking you or anyone else but your not convincing me of your side so far. And obviously I havent gotten you to see where Im coming from, so I will drop it.
Baseless speculation: “The Seahawks aren’t spending unlike the other teams because of coronavirus” (based on zero information)
Not baseless speculation: “The Seahawks are playing hardball with Clowney” (based on multiple reports saying they won’t meet his contract demands by a few million).
This ends now.
It is a thought that theoretically could be possible, but as a Rob said, based upon absolutely nothing.
And if ultra cheap Mike Brown and the Bengals are spending money, then no,it isn’t playing into the decision making in Seattle.
If Rob were to post a ratio scale of the amount of times those who frequent this site have checked in over the last 4 days, I have a feeling I would be truly embarrassed and slightly ashamed of myself 😄.
Every time a few hours have passed, I think ‘ok, this is it’ as I log on only to find disappointment once again.
Let’s go hawks! Social distancing doesn’t preclude the signing of talented football players!
“Every few hours”
You’re good dude… it’s more like minutes for more than a few!
this perfectly describes me. I just keep hopping on hoping to catch some big news or any news on a solution to the DL.
Reunion on the horizon…? We could use some CB depth, but he is also 29 already.
really would be OK with this. But anything outside of DL solution is almost disappointing now.
I liked Desir, and was annoyed when they cut him for younger guys he outplayed. Hes done pretty well for the colts, but hes 29 and I thought he only played outside corner? Our big need is nickel.
And sadly, I blame the poor play of our corners as much or more on the coaching staff as I do Griffen, Flowers, and our rotating cast of nickel failures last year, so Im not sure Desir would help much overall. Plus, apparently they are having some sort of difficulty finding the cash/cap space/balls/urgency/whatever to fix our pass rush, which comes first….but if he could be had cheap, I would be glad to see him return.
Releasing him also saved them $7m in cap space, not that they needed it (unless another big deal is forthcoming… gulp)
Looks like rumors about 13mil offer by seahawka are true.
https://twitter.com/jtheaps9/status/1241396659789029381?s=19
Hmmm, really interesting situation then. But if this was their starting offer (one always starts low), and if his market really is that low, which was expressed in the follow-up tweet, then it shouldn’t be this hard to find a middle ground and get it done.
So…do we know if Seattle is still only offering 13-14, or if they indeed have raised their offer to the 18.5 per year mark some have rumored? Big distinction there….
If they truly are playing harball at 14, this reminds me of Sheldon Richardson. Not being willing to pay him 8 million at the time hurt our defense, but our cap situation was different then, so its not easy to see how the dominoes would have fallen had we kept him. This is frustrating!
Im with Rob in the frustration level department. Hardest offseason Ive ever sat through…
Heaps knows nothing. Kissed ass all the way to a radio job. I trust him as much as I do any camp counselor as the Russell passing camp
Wow this is insane if true.
Heaps does not seem like the kind of guy that would make this up, plus he does have connections inside Seahawks.
Maybe that’s what we value him at. Apparently no other team has stepped up either. Does anybody know of any player playing Clowney’s position that have received a huge contract with only 3 sacks or so the year before? And with injury concerns?
Clowney has always felt a bit overrated to me anyway but offering only 13 million simply won’t get the deal done.
But at least if/when Clowney signs elsewhere we gave it our best shot to sign the self-confessed ‘huge priority’ while other pass rushers signed elsewhere. And we did secure the crucial addition of Brandon Shell, despite the fact guys like Ifedi and Cordy Glenn remain unsigned.
(roll eyes emoji)
Allow me: 🙄
Wow. Crazy. Must be the injury history scaring folks? Hes a total game-wreaker, jus needs a pass rusher opposite him so teams cant gameplan himbout of a play.
I liked Clark, but Rob showed us Clowney was a better overall player, and I saw that was true last year. No wonder Clowney hasnt signed…if I were him, Id take a one year deal elsewhere, where I could concentrate on boosting my sack numbers.
If he is such a game wrecker and his injury history isn’t concerning like many have suggested then what’s the problem here? Are we just cheap? We have the highest paid QB and LB in the league so that really doesn’t make sense.
Either way it’s looking like Clowney is probably going somewhere else. I would imagine there will be a team willing to give him a 15 million prove it year.
None of this matters.
We’ve got ‘Rollin’ Rasheem Green’ and Branden ‘big mama jaffa’ Jackson rushing the passer.
It’ll be like the 85 Bears etc.
😂😂
LOL! Don’t forget “Big Cat” Collier coming through. I’m hearing the boys are tanned rested and ready to rumble.
Crusher Collier
Collecting souls
Well done. I thoroughly enjoyed that comment.
I prefer Rasheem ‘action’ Green.
Nobody outside the league seems to know for sure. Injury has to be part of it, as is the inability to check him out at team facilities with team docs. Perhaps theres more, who knows,?
Im hopeful that Green finds some consistency, and Collier does something…anything…but in no way shape or form did I expect Seattle to have done nothing but bring back Irvin–a guy who has never hit double digit sacks and who is 33. This team will not do jack in the playoffs unless they beef up the pass rush considerably. Rob and everyone is 100% right in this.
In this scenario, Clowney signs with a team that likes to blitz. Nothing frees up a DE more than a linebacker lined up either just inside or outside of him and showing blitz.
The Seahawks are DEFINITELY not that team.
A random dude tweeting some nonsense and a former camp arm with no real connection to the team “confirming” it still don’t add up to a reliable report.
Thank you, John_s. Updated list, then, trying to get creative (and kill time…) with other options beyond Clowney to help our pass rush. Who would you all be interested in? (I’ve left off Chandler Jones, Von Miller, those who just signed new deals, and others whom I believe have zero chance of being traded)
Obviously, the first two names on the list are the big ones, but I doubt their teams would even pick up the phone (and who would blame them, really). But LAC has already been through one tough contract standoff with Bosa and perhaps need to stock up to move up for a shiny new QB this year or next (could help sell more tickets too), and the Garrett incident from last year might not have sat well with new management in CLE. I know it’s unlikely; just trying to find any ray of hope…
Trade
LAC Joey Bosa (24) 11.5 sacks
CLE Myles Garrett (24) 10 sacks
CIN Carlos Dunlap (30) 9 sacks (in 14 games)
PHI Brandon Graham (31) 8.5 sacks
HOU Whitney Mercilus (29) 7.5 sacks
LAC Melvin Ingram (30) 7 sacks (in 13 games)
FA
NYG Markus Golden (28) 10 sacks
NYJ Jordan Jenkins (25) 8 sacks (in 14 games)
MIN Everson Griffen (32) 8 sacks
I’ll be honest, I know nothing about Jenkins. But he did win 18% of his snaps facing a ton of double teams, per this chart: https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1235949932143575040
Tagged
PIT Bud Dupree (26) 11.5 sacks
BAL Matt Judon (27) 9.5 sacks
KC Chris Jones (25) 9 sacks (in 13 games)
JAX Yannick Ngakue (24) 8 sacks
I would trade for YN amd sign Griffen. And if it is possible to not give first round pick to Jags.
Thanks for putting these together Sea Mode! I really appreciate it.
Myles Garrett….Give them our first 3 picks and next years 2nd.
Yup, probably something like that. Or R1 + one R2 this year and R1 next year.
Good stuff Sea Mode, I’ve been talking about Jenkins for awhile now. He has a perfect LEO build and has had his numbers go up every year. Cant believe he hasnt got a deal yet.
You’ve got to run faster than he does to be a perfect LEO.
I’m seeing that he ran 4.8 w/ a 1.58 10 yard split.
Exactly. I know the 10 is important but an ideal LEO isn’t a 4.8 athlete.
Well thank God! It’s about time…
Ohh baby lets go!
Didn’t see this before posting my last comment and I might look very dumb now.
About bloody time
April Fool’s Day is still a week and a half away. You better not be messing with us! 🙂
An axiom in logic is; “When the outcome doesn’t make sense check you premise.”
While the money is likely the top priority, it may not be the only factor. Now that it appears Clowney wants to reload his approach with possibly a shorter term deal so he can get back in the pool later when maybe his bargaining power is better, he may be trying to get the “no tag, no trade” provision again. JS in turn may be saying something along the lines; “we extended you that courtesy so you could get out of Houston and we could enjoy your fine services, but please don’t expect us to give up that bit of value a second time.” There’s something we’re not anticipating that’s holding up a resolution here.
How I understand the Clowney situation is that Seattle offered him a pretty low deal way lower than expected but were planning to match a competing offer unless it tops a specific limit. Then FA started and nobody matched there offer of lets say 14-15 mil. Clowney was expecting something in the 20 mil range so he does not want to accept and waits for better options. He also does not really want to sign a short term deal because that is the reason why he held out which makes the situation even more difficult for him.
Now the Hawks are still waiting to match other offers since it is a huge priority for them to re-sign him.
Assuming this is what is going on right now. What should they do? They can not just start planning without him because getting him in the 15-16 mil range would be huge. They should also not just throw money at him to get the deal done now, if the difference between expectations is something like 5 mil.
Again, it seems like Clowney is on top of their priorities which we also assumed here going into FA. If he decides to wait out and seek better offers the Seahawks can not really do much.
I think it much more likely he doesn’t want a long-term deal if the numbers are low because a) he thinks he is worth more b) there are likely to be MASSIVE cap jumps in the next two years from gambling revenue and new tv deals.
Yes, thats the logical step now. However, we are talking about a player who held out his tag and forced his team to trade him with a guarantee to not be tagged again. It would be pretty crazy if the same guy signs a short term deal now. Again, that would be the logical step but it would still be a crazy story to me.
You are fast …😂
Looks like we are all hitting refresh buttons every minut…
Minutes are rookie numbers for Seamode. Guys a beast!
There’s still a chance we can resign Clowney and add Griffin. Add those two combined with drafting Davis with a second round pick and I think we all would be happy with the DL headed into 2020. That being said, this has been a confusing offseason so far with these marginal OL additions. At least Reed is back on a reasonable deal. That’s been the best move of the offseason so far, imo. As we’ve said many times though, this DL with Reed AND Clowney… is not good. That only keeps the status quo and there’s really no youngster waiting in the wings we can count on to have a big jump next year (like a Frank Clark from year one to year two… I mean, Collier showed absolutely nothing whereas Clark obviously had flashes of brilliance as a rookie… Collier was so bad, he couldn’t even break a lineup of terrible players in front of him… that’s a bad start).
With some of this talk about about Jacksonville potentially wanting a first round pick in 2021 – I say no to that. If anything happened to Russell Wilson, this is a 4-12 team with another QB. You can’t risk trading a top-5 pick in that scenario.
This team needs a superstar in the first round. The assembled talent on this team, aside from the QB position, is well below average. I am hoping for one of two players right now; Taylor or Ruiz. One is going to be a superstar skill position player and the other is going to be a Pro Bowl rock so the skill position players have more of a chance to succeed. I don’t know if either will last to 27 though. If they don’t, I’m hoping for a trade down so they can get both Davis and Dobbins with two of their three second round picks. I don’t know why exactly, but I really want an impact RB. I don’t trust Carson’s health and I know Penny will contribute basically nothing next year so I don’t even count him into the equation. Our rookie RB could compliment Carson this year and work with Penny the following year if Carson leaves in FA. I just think it makes sense to draft a RB early this year with those things under consideration – especially for a team that claims it wants to run the ball.
Clowney + Griffen and a decent draft pick for surely gives you hope of a final 4 2020 season.
Since we’ve sorted the OL in free agency, would like to see 2 of Davis, Gay Jr., Akers and Reagor with our first 3 picks. All freaks.
(Assuming we pick up Griffen, otherwise Okwara/Zuniga in there.)
Have we sorted the OL??
Knew that was coming. IMO, absolutely not, but John and Pete might be OK with it. They’ve rolled with worse.
They’ve also seen those results. Not good.
I expect them to add a veteran OG and/or OT in second wave of free agency and call it good.
What’s depressing is that I’m pretty happy with the additions of Shell and Finney, considering what could have done. Maybe Ogbuehi scratched Pete’s Joeckel itch.
A couple of those tackles have got to be tempting, Shell and Cedric notwithstanding…. 🙂
To be fair, Bobby, Clark may have flashed at times, but he was apparently such a punk JS and PC were sorry they drafted him, and brought him in to chew his ass near the end of his first year. Even in the second year, there seemed to be angst about having drafted him. It took him 3 years to step up his play and pull his head out. Hopefully Collier will step up this year and show something…
I wouldnt mind your choices in the draft either, but I want Okwara or Zuniga too…I feel the same about our RB situation.
This supposed to be amswer on sea mode post…
You’re on a reply-fail roll!
When I reply on last post and in a meantime somebody post another one always happen this.
If the Hawks best offer right now is $13 mil, and no one has beat that offer, Clowney’s market can’t be much higher. It’s hard for me to believe he isn’t worth more, but the Hawks know him best and no one is biting. This doesn’t sound like playing hardball to me. It sounds like giving the player time to let reality set in.
Sounds about right
I’ll eat my hat if this is true. No way in hell some team wouldn’t pay Jadeveon Clowney at least $16 mil annually.
Jake Heaps is kind of daft. All the people at 710 are a bit forced.
I’d be open to resigning Mebane on a 1-year contract (minimal salary, obviously). I think he’s still solid in spurts and would be an ideal depth signing, who would be effective playing in 25-35% of snaps.
Pierre Desir cut by the Colts. I think he’d be worth kicking the tires on.
Can’t imagine he isn’t better than Akeem King, right? I was perplexed when we cut him. Seemed to show promise, and obviously he got some money from the Colts.
“Given his injury and the inability of teams to perform a physical, GMs of other teams are extremely nervous about committing that much cash. Seattle can’t give him a physical either, but they’ve got exclusive access to the team doctors who were treating him last season and therefore have far better information than the rest of the league.”
Imagine offering a player 13 million per year and his agent says “Uh, no. We want over 20.”
Clowneys market is so hard to predict. There is the OLB-DE thing, injury concerns, sack concerns while being an absolute freak athlete. His agent might be having a very hard time right now.
At this point, getting Clowney feels anti-climactic. I’ll only feel happy if we get him for less than $18mm now and have money left to sign Griffen to a bargain contract too.
Oooopppsss
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1241413769324105732?s=19
There’s some initial chatter on the NFL grapevine that Seattle could be in the process of working something out with Clowney. It’s possible, however, that Clowney’s camp is putting that out there in an effort to drum up interest elsewhere.
Yeah, pump the brakes, everyone… 😠
Those were seconds…😂😂😂
False alarm lads.
The Seahawks aren’t about to sort this out after all.
They’re still sitting at the vast wasteland of a pass rush and trying to get Clowney at their specific price.
Good. Excellent.
Woke up, made my Bday wish that Seattle would make a move today that would be the best possible move they could make. 3 minutes later they report they’re working on a new deal with Clowney.
You’re welcome, everybody
Thx Coleslaw!
Happy Birthday!
Happy Bday my man!
Happy birthday! All the best.
Thanks guys ❤
Happy Birthday Coleslaw!!
Thank you for sharing your birthday present with all of us!
Also multiple reports that they are working on Griffen to pair with Clowney.
The only reports I’ve seen are:
— Seahawks still waiting out Clowney
— Griffen could be an option because he’s not going back to Minnesota
Happy birthday coleslaw, let’s hope they bring home the presents!
Happy birthday! Hope your wish comes true!
Happy birthday Coleslaw!
A bit off topic but out of the 3 LBs Murray, Queen and GayJr, who do you think would be the best for Seattle? How is the chance that we (can) pick one of them on Day 1/2?
Gay Jr., but I think he rises into 30 – 45 range.
I’d be happy if we got any of those guys in R2 or R3. Gay in R3 appeals most.
We may need to do a trade back so we could get into the early 3rd. I’m not sure he’d even last until then but I certainly can’t see him last to the end of round 3.
He has “issues,” from what I gather. Not uncommon for those types to fall a bit.
If he’s there at the end of two, don’t play around. He’s that talented.
Agreed. I’d think it’s entirely possible to get say….. I. Wilson, Okwara, and Gay with the 1st 3 picks. Lots of backs and WR to be had a little later.
He punched his own QB in the face hard enough to break his orbital bone. He also was suspended eight games for a cheating scandal. Not a deal breaker IMO but he must be fully vetted. I don’t think that teams will feel comfortable with him as a day two pick.
WIthout knowing any context, what you just described sounds like a deal breaker to me. No thanks. If I was a GM, he would be off my board, and I’m not even sure which prospect you are talking about.
IMO
Murray is the most pro ready. He’s a true plug n play LB. Not sure how much higher his ceiling is though.
Gay has the highest ceiling, but he’s the least pro ready of the 3.
Queen is a good mix of both — he’s reasonably pro ready, not quite as ready as Murray though his ceiling is higher; way more pro ready than Gay, though not quite as high a ceiling.
IMO
I’m OK with the OL signings. We replaced Ifedi with at least an equal (and less penalties) at a lower price and signed a dirt-cheap NFL backup OT. We also signed what appears to be a starting-caliber NFL C for about half of what Britt will cost us. I do not see our offense falling off much if at all next year due to OL play.
And we also freed up some cash to perhaps get Clowney a running mate.
I’m holding out hope for an EDGE of Clowney/Griffen and a LEO of Clowney/Irvin along with a heavy package of Clowney and Griffen as bookends during running downs.
I’m glad we acted quickly to secure Brandon Shell and Cedric Ogbuehi. Didn’t want to miss out there wasting time fixing the pass rush.
Rob, were Shell and Ogbhuie guys you had in mind when you advocated for a cheap hedge at OT, or were you hoping for a little higher calibre than that?
I didn’t have a specific name in mind. Merely a cheap veteran.
I didn’t expect them to spend what they are. And I didn’t expect Shell and Ogbuehi to receive the salaries they are getting.
For example, Ogbuehi earned about $750,000 last season. We’re paying him $3.3m.
Why?
Do we know how much of that is guaranteed? I expect not much and they can simply cut him if he doesn’t work out.
That’s fine.
But why is he even on $3.3m — guaranteed or not?
He busted at Cincy. Played for 750k in Jax but barely featured. Now he’s a $3.3m player??
Why? How?
The tackle market seems like it’s starting to inflate a bit. Perhaps that’s the going rate if they wanted their choice. Not saying I completely agree with the signing, but just trying to come up w an explanation.
But given Ifedi and Glenn and others are still out there… why wait out pass rushers and not the tackles? Especially when it’s a good OT draft for once and a bad DL draft?
And why is Ogbuehi worth $2.5m more than he was a year ago based on barely any playing time?
Yeah that’s an interesting point. It’s not clear yet what’s going on w Ifedi yet, and perhaps they’re just not interested in Glenn. Might have to look at this as more of a deal-by-deal perspective. Could be that they simply wanted Cedric and the deal was very straightforward to complete by both parties. Not every deal is an easy negotiation.
+1
Rob, when I first saw the photos of Ogbuehi I thought he had the same body type as Fant. I’ve read on line that he’s played “snaps at LT, LG, C, RG, RT and TE.”
I speculate that the team sees him as a Swiss Army Knife for all OL positions – and – I suspect at least one of our scouts has told management he might just be able to be an OK, or better, Fant 2.
If so. He might end up being a pleasant surprise. Imagine, in the midst of our night of perpetual darkness – a sliver of light. One can dream.
It makes me chuckle in a hapless and sardonic way every time.
The only option is to laugh.
And write long, moaning blog posts.
But mainly laugh.
I get the Shell signing but not the Ogbuehi one. I guess the devil is in the details and we need to see Ogbuehis. Not sure why its taking so long to come out. The incentives better be a massive part of it. Maybe they just like throwing big money at former Jaguar offensive lineman, I dont know.
Man, Mike Thomas and Sanders is gonna be filthy with Kamara.. and more Taysom Hill? Jeez
Has there been ANY chatter about Ifedi signing with a team?
I haven’t seen a single thing.
I was wondering that when (if?) they make their pass rush additions, that, if he’s still out there, if they just bring him back on a vet minimum deal. He stays healthy and knows the system, have him and Shell compete for the job.
The thing that’s most unclear to me now is how Machiavellian team PC/JS have been playing the Clowney negotiations? It’s clear to me that their “intel” was right as concerns his market value so far. But it’s really guess work as to what their initial offer was. Was it a good faith offer? I don’t know. And I don’t know, given the lackluster market for his services now, what such a number would be? 5 years and 90 million APY? No idea how far apart they really are. It seems that most pundits are just guessing out of the blue now.
PS> I meant 5 years 90 million 15 million APY.
PSS> 5 years 90 million 18 million APY. LOL Finally got it right. I need constant editing. 🙂
Feels like the whole fanbase is constipated.
We know what we need to do, but it’s not happening. We can try and try and try, but nothing’s moving.
When the laxative (a real pass rusher) kicks in, there’s going to be a huge sense of relief, followed by “why did this happen? How did we get here?”
Great anology Cha!
Rob, what are the odds Pierre Desir could be had for a cheap deal? Knows the system and we have familiarity with him. He’d be a great option to push Tre Flowers and better than any draft pick.
He would need to be cheap
Well, that could have been some cheap depth for us at TE… 🤷♂️
Even though it was a false alarm, I still feel it indicates something positive: Seattle has likely set a deadline. Maybe even today or tomorrow, when they would need to make a call on KJ Wright. Clowney’s team put out the message to everyone else to make their best offers.
That’s my best guess, at least. One way or another, it feels like this will finally be over soon.
That’s my take as well Sea Mode. I can’t wait for this to be over so we can get back to draft scenarios and prospects.
Deadline for call on KJ was yesterday. The date is 02/22/2020 but you cant do.anything in NFL during weekend.
I know Rob doesnt love to see.this type of tweets so delete.it if.you think you sholud.
https://twitter.com/mattyfbrown/status/1241441556265041920?s=19
Matty F. Brown
@mattyfbrown
·
10 Min.
Jadeveon Clowney’s 3 year deal is best for both parties. Clowney gets another chance at a payday in 2023. The cap will have skyrocketed after the 2021 TV contracts.
For the Seahawks, it gives them 2 extra years and enables them to fit JC in the cap without aggressive moves.
Still skeptical.. but we’ll see, I guess
He also claims to have a “serious source”
If true, this is what his source is saying:
If anything derails it, that SHOULD be it.
No thanks, if that’s what it takes.
39 million guaranteed for 3 years
Depends on the APY for me. If it’s in the 13-15mil range like the rumors then I’m okay with that. That’s probably how much you’re guaranteeing top pass rushers anyways. If it’s in the 18-20mil range then yeah that’s probably bit too much to commit.
I would pull the trigger if it was 40 million guaranteed at 15 million.
Y’all would be OK with paying someone $40-45m for playing about 25 snaps over 3 years?
No way. There would have to be all sorts of incentives in that contract for the “guarantees” to kick in.
25 snaps?
If all they money is guaranteed, he gets it regardless of injury and even if he gets cut.
Thats the same for any guy who signs a contract.
Hubris. It’s the biggest shortcoming of this great front office. Call it out thinking themselves, call it smartest guy in the room syndrome. Whatever. It often works out for them. It sometimes doesn’t.
You can’t continually try to beat and outsmart the market and not pay penalties. You’re not the smartest guy in the room every time.
speak for yourself.
lol
I don’t disagree completely, but when those same men have built an amazing culture to play in, in a state w/ no taxes, and a top 3 QB to play with, they should be thinking that way.
Still doesn’t mean they don’t have a 4-12 roster if they don’t have that top 3 QB. Tough to be the smartest in the room all the time when your roster isn’t good and worst than most. At one time they did have the best roster, but now it’s nowhere close. Said QB masks a lot of holes.
But they do have that QB, and they have that QB by “being the smartest guy in the room”. I’d rather my front office be aggressive and take their shots while still being a playoff team every year. I’m not sure what you are saying to be honest.
They are the “smartest guy in the room” because they drafted Russell Wilson in the third round. They passed on him twice. If not for that pick, this is a bottom feeder roster. In all seriousness, most NFL teams would not trade rosters with the Seahawks if the QB position was not involved.
But that’s the art of the draft. They knew they could wait until they did. They didn’t pass on him twice because they were wrong. They passed until the 3rd so they could draft Irvin and Wagner as well.
I hear what you are saying though, the roster certainly isn’t as good as it used to be, but that’s what happens when you have to pay a QB $35 million. A good draft is needed again.
really hate this argument of without your top qb, the team.would be shit. That’s the case with most teams every year. But I also believe the baseless 4-12 talk could be more 7-9 and competitive. If you truly believe that PC would manage the game the same way with or without Wilson, it seems crazy.
You’re right. The Saints went 5-0 without Teddy Bridgewater last year because they sucked without Drew Brees.
yes absolutely. Which is why I said most teams. Not all. If want to constantly defer all examples to the top 5% outliers, then we can just nitpick this all day. Saints are a great team. Good for them. Pats did it too with Cassell. Also pretty good team. Maybe Seahawks are similar. Don’t know.because we haven’t faced that issue yet. But, by all means, we can speculate the worse case scenario of a hypothetical situation.
As I said, they’re a great front office. I wrote it. They’re great. GREAT.
But they’ve also had a fairly middling team for years now, have failed to get out of the second round of the playoffs for years, and have had this barely above mediocrity despite having arguably the most valuable and best player in the league at the most impactful position.
They have weaknesses. Everyone does. This is theirs.
I can see the reason why they are called a middling team. Early exit from playoffs. But considering the consistent success without huge wasted seasons like 80% of other teams, I’d say they are well above middling. More playoff success is definitely needed, but this is a perenial playoff team every year. Can’t hate on that.
Exactly.
500 comments lol
¡Viva la quarantine!
Rob:
Let me reply to your rhetorical question with another rhetorical question. What if Clowney’s market isn’t that good and the Hawks can sign him to a longer term deal at a reasonable price? I’m guessing that is the question that Schneider is asking right now. The market doesn’t seem to be that hot for Clowney. Impatience is not a virtue.
Are teams really that worried about Clowney’s health?
Well, maybe, since they can’t do physicals.
Didn’t realize his injury was potentially that serious
Kingdome:
It isn’t just his latest injury, it’s his injury history. CJ Procise may have been a difference maker but can never stay on the field for more than a game or two per year. Teams my look at Clowney much the same way when thinking about a giant contract.
And would you want to give Procise a 3 yr, fully gtd contract?
But Clowney has never missed that kind of time. If he comes in at ~15-16/year, with 2 guaranteed, is that too much for you?
I’d be ecstatic if they got him for 15/yr, 30 gtd with the 3rd year off the hook.
Exactly! I’m fine w/ all 3 being guaranteed if the 1st year cap hit is low enough.
Well he did miss the first season and a half of his career with injury.
Maybe, but I don’t see how that would be an impediment to agreeing to a deal. Every contract is subject to the player passing a physical. So a team like, say IND, can agree to terms with Clowney, pending him taking and passing a physical.
I don’t think a team who really wants him wouldn’t make an offer because they can’t do a physical right now.
I think its more fit and need based for his desired money. Seattle is a perfect spot for him. Most teams want to pay that money for a 10+ sack guy. We love his run defense and ability to create pressure. Could be just sacks holding him back from that 20m.
If you play with fire, nearly get burnt but just about avoid it — it doesn’t mean playing with fire was a good idea after all.
And if you pay big money for a guy who spends much of the season injured or at half capacity then you haven’t really helped the team. Part of the problem with the D-Line was run stuffing. There are many good run stuffing DTs left in free agency. If the Hawks can do better at stopping the run, the pass rush will improve. I think they’re counting on improvement by Green and Collier. Reed rushing up the middle and a couple of decent (not necessarily great) pass rushers on the edge may suffice if they can stop the run.
1. Clowney hasn’t spent much of his career injured or half capacity. It’s a false narrative.
2. Seattle’s problems stopping the run are not down to the interior. It’s the perimeter run. A nose tackle won’t make any difference.
3. There is no way…. no way…. they are ‘counting’ on Green and Collier improving. They will hope it happens. They will try to make it happen. They will not be counting on it.
We got killed on the perimeter last year, sweeps, jet sweeps, screens, quick outs… Outside of the pass rush, that was a weak element of our D last year.
It’s the second biggest weakness after pass rush.
Frankly, it surprised me last year how consistently weak that area of the field was for us. I thought our personnel was better than that in this particular regard. I was wrong.
It’s one of the reasons I want Willy Gay. I bigger, faster SS (cough, Simmons, cough) would be helpful as well. Does Dugger or Chin help that Rob? I’d think so.
Yeah, it’s why I suddenly liked the trade up for Simmons idea. I was always in the quality over quantity/trade up for a difference maker camp, but I just hadn’t considered him. Got caught in the “tweener” thing. Simmons was everywhere for Clemson. Great nose for the ball, like BBK at UW, though obviously more gifted.
Rob:
Pete Carroll has stated several times this off-season that they are counting on improvement from Green and Collier. They invested high or pretty high draft picks in both of them. Both seem to be following the trajectory of Frank Clark who didn’t become BAD ASS until year 3.
SportsInjuryPredictor.Com gives Clowney a medium risk with a 55% chance of injury in 2020. That is not bad for a middle tier paid player, but it does seem to be effecting his quest for top dollar. He may not be worth top dollar because of that risk. League GM’s aren’t jumping to sign him.
Pete Carroll would say he was counting on Barney the Dinosaur to show improvement if asked.
It means nothing.
He’s not going to say, ‘well actually they’re not that good so we’ve given up on them’.
‘SportsInjuryPredictor.Com’
Just stop.
No, but it means you shake your head, marvel that they got away with it, and enjoy the fruits of the money saved in the form of the next signing.
If you want to feel that way, be my guest.
To me it just means they risked blowing the 2020 season to save a few bucks. And it’ll only make any kind of sense if it enables them to add a fantastic LEO compliment. And as much as I like Everson Griffen, he’s not a fantastic LEO compliment. He’s simply better than some of the other older-man options.
Anybody left who is, in your view?
Nope.
Would have to be a trade now.
And FWIW — I’m not against signing Griffin. I’m just making a point about not doing anything other than re-sign Bruce in the first week of FA to slow-play Clowney and save as little, reportedly, as $1.5m a year.
Regarding the Clowney negotiations, am I the only one who is thinking of the late Kenny Rogers? You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run …
Rest in peace …
A poignant and timely post.
It’s safe to say, handling the intricacies of being a GM is endless. Assessing the availability players in relationships to the talent skill, in terms of what is best for their team. Then, having a plan in place to carry it out, knowing that other GMs may have the same players in mind, with various cap space to work with.
Some are quite adept at their job more so than others. JS is among the top 5 in the league of successful GMs running a franchise. As JS & Co close in on carrying out their plan, I can’t help but imagine JS sitting, or standing at his desk, and then looking up to say, ” I got this, brother.”
He stressfully waited for Wilson, he patiently and fortunately acquired Bennett & Avril. This stressful period that we’re experiencing right now is so erringly similar to what he’s experienced before. Unfortunately for us, we tend forget this, due to the urgency and times in which we live.
I would like to extend an apology to you Rob, in my methods of conveying a different perspective of your article. I’m come to realize that you are in a staunch advocate of the work that JS & Co has & is doing for this franchise. Otherwise you would not devote the time and energy in the work that you amazingly do.
Yes, I am an advocate.
I am regularly criticised by other websites for being a cheerleader.
But I’m not a cheerleader. Or overly negative either.
I call things as I see them. Always will.
And I don’t think this has been a good start to the new league year.
Even if they successfully smoke Clowney out — it’s still the status quo. And they might lose him over a couple of million. I anticipated an aggressive fix. They still have time to deliver. But I’m not excited about the prospect of that. And I don’t want to be having the same conversations in 12 months about why they lost in the wildcard or divisional round after finishing 2nd in the NFC West losing half their home games.
And I bet if you asked RW privately he’d say the same.
There is no way NOT to be an advocate really. They’ve been at the top of their game for a decade.
That said, Rob, keep doing what you do and you smoke them out. Let’s hope for a fantastic finish to free agency and a great draft! I have hope.
I’m reading this a day late because I’m so frustrated with their off-season rn. You’re right Rob, the time to act was this past week and nothing. I do really like the addition of Irvin—he had a good season last year given his age and the signing was low risk. But Irvin is not the answer. If we’re going to continue with Clowney then we need at least one other serious addition to truly boost this line. The status quo is unacceptable. I just hope there’s some serious negotiations with players, other than just Clowney, happening that we’re totally unaware of.