It’s a complex question and there are many layers to the answer.
It’s possible the existing group will grow and improve. Will they take a big step forward under the guidance of Mike Solari? Do some of the players, like Germain Ifedi and Ethan Pocic, just need time? And will Duane Brown’s veteran experience help bring things together?
At the same time, you could easily build a case for making big changes. Is Ifedi ever going to be a long term solution at guard or tackle? Is Pocic good enough? Why were there so many errors and missed assignments? Does the responsibility lie with Tom Cable or do the players share the blame for not executing?
Did the running backs contribute in making the O-line look worse than it was? We know Russell Wilson occasionally runs himself into trouble, so how many bad reads were the running backs making?
You could write a piece arguing absolutely anything about the O-line and make it seem logical. Let Solari work with this group before judging, give Ifedi another year, bring in a veteran left guard, draft a left guard, blow the whole thing up and start again. Nothing should be off the table.
They probably don’t want to re-start the whole thing. After all, they’ve spent so much. Justin Britt wasn’t just a second round pick, they’ve also given him a $9m a year contract. Ifedi and Pocic were first and second rounders. Brown cost a second and third round pick.
Has any other team invested more in their O-line? This has been a concerted effort to fix a problem. And yet it remains mostly unfixed. The Seahawks have shown they don’t necessarily need the Dallas Cowboys O-line to succeed. Look at 2013. They do need a line that functions, however. One that isn’t a liability.
And in the post-Marshawn Lynch era they can’t rely on a future Hall-of-Famer to make up the difference.
A degree of ruthlessness is required. Brown will remain at left tackle. It’d make sense to let George Fant compete with Germain Ifedi at right tackle. They have some options at the position, so another high pick at tackle seems unlikely.
The interior is the big question mark, as evidenced by this tweet:
Offensive line yards before contact per RB attempt for the 2017 regular season pic.twitter.com/97gdHaS0UU
— Jeff Ratcliffe (@JeffRatcliffe) February 7, 2018
Seattle didn’t run the ball well enough up the middle. If you look at the results running to the left or right, the difference between the Seahawks and Rams is minimal. Yet Los Angeles and Todd Gurley averaged 3.02 yards before contact running up the middle compared to Seattle’s paltry 0.82 yards (#31 in the league).
That’s where the serious debate needs to happen, especially approaching a draft class filled with interior O-line talent. The first two or three rounds are really appealing at guard and center.
If the Seahawks trade Earl Thomas for a first round pick, would anyone really argue if they spent their two first rounders on Billy Price and Isaiah Wynn? It’d be a serious infusion of talent to the interior. It might not be the best use of resources given what they’ve spent on the O-line already but would it finally solve a big problem once and for all?
Such a scenario might be unlikely. Appealing but unlikely. Yet it’s the kind of conversation that is worth having. If they’re going to eat some bad contracts on defense in an attempt to get younger — do they need to eat some money and picks on the O-line to get better?
Will anything aid the Seahawks more than the ability to field a dominant run game in 2018? Look what it did for Dallas in 2016. They didn’t have a star-studded defense but were still able to control games thanks to a creative, mobile quarterback, Ezekiel Elliott and a terrific O-line.
Seattle has a proven track record of developing defensive talent. Would you bet against Pete Carroll being able to field a complimentary defense for a new, supercharged running game?
It’s something to think about during this horrible pre-combine void.
We’ve talked a lot about Wynn and Price. They along with Ronald Jones II are very appealing in round one if the Seahawks are serious about focusing on improving their running game.
Wynn is without doubt the most unflappable offensive lineman I’ve watched since starting the blog nearly ten years ago. His senior year at Georgia was an exercise in calmness, control and sheer dominance. He isn’t a big physical powerhouse like Quenton Nelson, destined to be the second coming of Steve Hutchinson. He might be, however, an unheralded star at a time when the league badly needs solid and consistent O-line play. Wynn was the best player at the Senior Bowl. I’m not sure it was all that close.
Jones II is as close to Jamaal Charles as you’ll ever find in a player. They are eerily similar. He’s smaller than Seattle has drafted for the position in the past yet he’s incredibly tough and physical. He’s a star in the making with a major X-factor very few players possess.
I wanted to spend some more time today, however, talking about Price. We’ve discussed his physical traits and playing style before. He’s going to surprise people at the combine with his power and explosive athleticism. He plays at maximum intensity, launching himself into the game and setting the tone. He’s a relentless ball of power, occasionally playing with some reckless abandon but more often than not having the ability to play within the scheme and execute some very technical double teams and blitz pick-ups.
If you watched Taylor Lewan against Seattle in week three and thought — ‘I want that type of O-liner on our team’ — Price has that kind of edge and nasty.
Need evidence?
Billy Price is pretty good, he’ll be a first rounder come May #NFLDraft #NFLDraft2018 pic.twitter.com/eHCBRkPoyc
— Talon Graff (@CoachGraff34) February 11, 2018
He’s also comfortable on the move:
Pat Eiflen clone RT @JonValencia_WiB: #OhioState C Billy Price grades in as a late 1st rounder. Probably the safest prospect in the class aside from Quenton Nelson. pic.twitter.com/010AgUKqcy
— a frugal individual (@dandre_985) February 6, 2018
This second clip of Price pulling is even better. Look how smooth he is to the second level and delivers a key block:
Watch Billy Price here. Guy has transitioned to center seamlessly. So good in space #BuckeyeNation pic.twitter.com/ZnlE0kkdDv
— Daniel Parlegreco (@DTPDraftScout) December 21, 2017
The block below is exactly the type of thing you want to see when watching these interior O-liners. Price plants the anchor and is just immovable — there’s no push or inch given against the pass rusher. This is pure lower body power and strength:
It's hard to give O-Lineman love during these live threads, but Billy Price is so damn strong. He's a starter on an NFL line week 1. pic.twitter.com/AwS66Cv2Z5
— Cagen Cantrell (@CeeingTheDraft) December 30, 2017
There’s one other way he stands out though and this could be important for Seattle. Too often in the last couple of years there have been mistakes. Missed assignments, players not working as a collective group. Price is an organiser. So while he’d bring a toughness to Seattle’s O-line he might also help the group function.
Watch the video below from 30 seconds in and listen to his answer about transitioning from guard to center. Here’s the quote in full:
“I’m kind of the voice of the offensive line, myself and Jamarco (Jones). There’s a lot of things that I have to make sure I understand completely otherwise we’ll go out on the field and look like idiots and that’s something I can’t let our boys do.”
I’m not trying to suggest for a second that Justin Britt isn’t capable of this or is responsible for the mistakes that happen on the O-line. Britt might talk in a similar fashion when quizzed on this subject. After all, like Price he switched to become a guard.
Yet having experienced Seattle’s errors on the O-line like everyone else for two years, you can’t help but listen to Price here and wonder if this is a solution. Can he come in, lead Seattle’s O-line the way he did Ohio State’s and avoid, to use his words, letting his boys ‘look like idiots’.
Urban Meyer clearly has a lot of respect for Price:
Meyer calls Billy Price a cornerstone. He started his 51st consecutive game today. Said Price took over the locker room last week. Called him a lifelong friend.
— Patrick Murphy (@_Pat_Murphy) November 11, 2017
Meyer on Billy Price: “He’s done everything I’ve ever asked of him. … I’m deeply indebted to him.”
— Nick Piotrowicz (@NickPiotrowicz) November 11, 2017
After an absolute shellacking by Iowa during the 2017 season, Price took it upon himself to deliver a crucial speech in the locker room after the game. Meyer has credited that speech as a catalyst for turning around Ohio State’s fortunes. They went on to win the BIG 10 and nearly qualified for the college football playoffs despite that hammering by the Hawkeyes.
Watch how Price carries himself during practise, assuming a leadership role:
This is an interesting film session with Price, where he talks about blocking and his duties as the center:
There’s an awful lot to like. He’s an organiser, he takes responsibility for the group. Maybe they need that type of leader?
He’s also durable, starting well over 50 consecutive games at Ohio State. It’s the one big edge he has over Isaiah Wynn who is currently recovering from a torn labrum and won’t workout at the combine.
The Seahawks have an opportunity to improve their much maligned running game this year. The options are there in the draft — this is a strong class at running back and interior O-line in the early rounds. There’s also enough defensive talent from round three onwards to feel comfortable waiting on that side of the ball. There’s even 2-3 really good blocking tight ends to further improve the running game.
They’re probably going to be aggressive in making changes to the defense. It’ll be interesting to see how aggressive they are changing the O-line too.
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The fact that we’re talking about having a chance at drafting Price or Jones at 18 is so exciting but scary.. I hope they don’t get the Haason Reddick treatment soon.. knock on wood. I’d take Price top 5 and Jones top 10 all day. Add them both and you’re getting 2 true studs, that would be identity changing.
Those 2 guys alone when Price is lead blocking would be deadly and something to build the offense around. And with Price specifically, why not just stick him at RG until Britts deal runs out then move him to center? He seems to be more capable than anyone of a challenge like that.
I’m really leaning towards selling earl for rojo and an OL
LT- Brown/ Fant
LG- Pocic/Roos
C- Britt/ Price
RG- Price/ Ifedi
RT- Ifedi/ Corbett
RB- Carson, Rojo, Hyde, McKissic, Prosise/Madden
I’d like to say add a FA OG who could compete for LG/ play RG in relief of injury, but idk how possible that is. Norwell would really beef it up and give us some more nastiness and leadership.
Just gimme Norwell Rojo and Price for Earl, Kam, Sherm, Bennett and Avril and I’ll call it an off-season
Debbie Downer checking in… I can see no realistic scenario where the Hawks end up with any more than one of Price/Wynn/RoJo. Even if they trade Earl, I see no more than one top-35 pick. History shows JS loves his Day 2 picks too much.
We might be able to still land Wynn around 30 and pickup a late 2nd. If not trade back because there are other guys like Will Hernandez and Frank Ragnow. Take Rojo at 19 from Dallas and still have at least another late 2nd.
Steelers could be a trade partner if a QB they like is still around at 19, they have pick 28. We could probably pull a move into the early 2nd with someone wanting Lamar Jackson and get a 3rd and change too
Could look like
1.18. Ronald Jones II
2.43. Will Hernandez (from Miami)
2.56. Jessie Bates
3.75. Michael Gallup
Haven’t had much time to study and look at Prince’s game. Man oh man is he the kind of guy we need. I’d say we’re set at LT with Brown. We need a LG since Joeckel will likely walk. Britt should stay at C. Pocic should get first crack at RG. Ifedi and Fant compete for RT. Hope we get a guy that’s as good as Price. His command and leadership are unlike anyone we’ve had since Unger. Any chance this guy falls past round 2?
*Price’s
I don’t think Price will fall past Buffalo.
I did see a report that BUF was looking at getting into the top 10 to get a QB but who knows.
Price @ 18 before Buffalo gets him, I’m cool with that! RB at 18 scares me! Price not only a hedge for Britt but game day we can go with 6 or 7 O lineman. I don’t know about everyone else but I don’t know if I can handle another year of passing on 3rd/4th & 1.
I’m a big fan of Price’s. I would love for him to be a seahawk. The question is, say you take him around 18. Unless you trade Earl, you aren’t getting Jones. Even a trade down from 18 doesn’t make that happen. So now you have to ask yourself what you want more: A running game, or resign Earl to a third contract to protect the back end for a few more years, hopefully at an All Pro level. The point you bring up about the mistake on the line is something that has bothered me greatly the last two seasons. The errors are so flagrant that it’s almost like they’ve never played the positions before. I had a discussion with some fellow coaches when we were watching the hawks play on tv, and we had a debate as to whether Britt was the reason they failed to communicate properly. It has to be a serious consideration. The really great ones have played the position for the majority of their careers. I would be ecstatic to have Price on our line.
The most logical destination for ET is Dallas who happens to own the 19th pick.
Not necessarily. They would need to clear a lot of cap space, and they still have Lawrence to try and sign. The only reason that seems to be everyone’s favorite destination is what happened after the Dallas game.
Your essentially trading a weakness at FS for a possible fix at rb.
The interior of the line was constantly shuffled all year due to injury and poor play. Hard to be successful with differences guys flanking you all season long; one of whom was a rookie that played three spots.
Actually, you would be trading a special talent and probably to saving serious cap dollars, replacing him with a solid veteran, (which most of the league managed just fine), and gaining more draft capital. John screwed this ip. Now he has to fix the holes. He can’t do that without picks. Oh, and he’s missing a day two pick NEXT year as well. In my opinion, and I stated it last offseason, I feel like he had a terrible offseason with the draft and free agency, and I would like to see him right the shop now. Can’t resign players to huge money, third deals and walk out of it better for t.
What’s your opinion on Will Hernandez, Rob? If Price and Wynn go early then Hernandez might be an option. I hear Solari likes bigger interior guys as well.
Like him. Not sure, still, that he’s the best fit for Seattle’s likely scheme moving forward based on what we know with Pete and Solari but wouldn’t complain at all if they took him in R2.
Are either of the WSU Cougars O linemen worthwhile considerations on day 2 or day 3? Don’t really know much about them as NFL prospects.
Most likely Cole Madison but I think he would do better in detroit. Good pass blocker but hasn’t done any real mauling. Cody O’Connell is massive but until his pro day we have 0 idea about his athleticism. The continent is super frustrating to me. He can maul through lineman but his hips are so high that blitzers will take it to him inside.
Personally… I love Hernandez as well. He’s just not as scheme diverse or positional diverse. As for the scheme… I’m perfectly fine with scrapping it. It wasn’t helping us.
Positionally*
I’m with you, drewdawg. zone blocking was really effective when it was first developed and blocker could go at defenders legs. With the rule changes penalizing blocks below the waist, zone blocking is much less effective. I wouldn’t mind seeing a new system.
Denver perfected it, but the rules won’t allow that anymore, and for good reason. Now it’s just not as effective.
I like Iowa’s James Daniels a bit more than Price. He’s also almost 3 years younger.
He’s a good mover, but nowhere near Price’s level of play
Agree to disagree.
https://youtu.be/n06fJ5U-CH8
James Daniels is pretty agile and athletic. However, he’s got some weaknesses. When he hits the initial man, and tries to pass off and move to the next level, there is a high frequency of whiffs. We have been watching the Seahawks line whiff for a number of years. He’s not super powerful against a quality DT who can bulk rush and he gets stood up sometimes. He’s good at licking on and taking one man. He can get some shoulder turn straight on. He’s good at help blocking and picking things up, but if you think he’s better than Billy Price, that club is maybe yourself, and Jame’s mom.
*locking” on, not licking. 😂
if you are going to draft a guard high I have only 1 requirement.
Can he neutralize Aaron Donald?
Because if he can do that, the rest of his game falls into place.
And there are 2 games a year against him, plus 2 against some young studs on SF
Can anyone neutralize Aaron Donald?
even Superman has his kryptonite.
Neutralize just means don’t let him blow up the backfield on every drive.
But yes, I do think there are players that can give him problems.
no idea who it is, but between o line, RB, QB and scheme, you have to game plan to minimize what he does
somehow…..
I agree with Rob, no one can neutralize a talent like that.
But the best bet would be Wynn imo, he’s smaller which will help him get against Donald always getting his pad level so low thus getting leverage against bigger lineman because of his size. He’s also as technically sound and “unflappable” as an oline prospect as you’ll get. This should help him play calm and composed even if he does get beat. I like Price more as a prospect his physical upside, mean streak and leadership all scream future all pro to me, but Wynn might be able to handle that match up better than most.
There are games where he doesn’t get a sack and is relatively ineffective. Philly and Tennessee made the Rams D-line look like Lambs in 2017.
However, they invested a ton in their O-lines. If we want to build one like that, we will need to jettison defensive players for picks.
You can’t neutralize Aaron Donald, you can only hope to split 50/50 with him. Even the Cowboys o line with Zach Martin and Travis Frederick in the middle had trouble with him. I think our expectations should be an interior that can slow him down enough that he isn’t a game wreaker like he’s been in the past.
These O-linemen sound great but I will be seriously surprised if they draft one in the 1st or 2nd round. They have been there and done that drafting or trading those picks for O-line too often.
IMO they will address early the front 7 on D and finding a red-zone TD-maker (WR/TE) to replace the loss of Graham’s production.
If Bennet, Avril, and Wilhoite are gone, the front 7 are really thin.
They are — but all three were cheap/value FA pickups. Not sure they will seek to replace them with high picks.
It will be hard replace Bennet and Avril again with cheap Free Agents. They have shown a willingness to draft front 7 defenders in the top rounds: McDowel, Clark, Wagner, Reed, Irvin.
They could almost replace them with Dion Jordan (Bennett) and Marcus Smith (Avril) its not quite the same but you never know. Jordan looked good in limited action and Smith didnt get much playing time at all.
I like Jordan, hope he can last a full season.
It wouldn’t surprise me to Marcus Davenport be our first round pick.
Watched him at Senior Bowl, he looked to good to be available at 18.
They’ve also shown a willingness to draft OL, RB and WR early. There’s a lot more focus on OL early than any other position or unit.
As for it not being easy to replace Bennett and Avril cheaply. Well that’s true, but who predicted the success of Clemons or the ability to land Bennett and Avril in the first place?
expecting to do that again, land 2 pro bowl players that come in cheap through free agency is a stretch. Getting 2 guys will will be over paid is more likely. Anyone with a pulse who can chase a QB will get interest from a lot of teams
So why were they able to find Bennett, Avril and Clemons? And now Dion Jordan and Frank Clark?
It’s a bit of a defeatist attitude, Hawk Eye, to say they won’t be able to sufficiently replace these players without having to spend R1 picks. The Seahawks have done a terrific job finding pass rushers in the PCJS era. Nobody is saying it’ll be easy but there’s no reason to believe they won’t be able to find replacements without having to spend major money or picks.
The top five pass rushers for sacks in 2017 were Chandler Jones (acquired for a R2 pick), DeMarcus Lawrence (R2 pick), Calais Campbell (free agent but previously a R2), Everson Griffen (R4) and Cam Jordan (#23 pick). Yannick Ngakoue, Miles Addison and Cameron Wake weren’t far behind.
You can find pass rushers.
i never said anything about only using 1st round picks, never mentioned any draft picks. I am just saying to expect to replace 2 guys as productive as Clemons, Avril and Bennett by getting some bargains in free agency or in a trade again is a stretch. They were great players for the Hawks, beyond what was expected. You mentioned replacing them in the bargain bin and I doubt lightning strikes twice there. I think they will use one of their top 2 picks on front 7 this year and I think they trade down from 1-18.
I think Jordan is promising, but lets see what he does over a full year before we think he can replace Bennett. I think Pete can work with guys others reject, but that is a hit and miss proposition.
I am not a pessimist, I am a pragmatist.
I think they keep Sherm this year
I think they try to resign Earl
I think they keep Bennett for another year
I think the sign Sheldon if he takes under $10M/yr. Remember they first asked him to cut his salary for 2017 before the traded for him.
I think if the sign Earl, they don’t resign McDougal, but play Hill at SS
all just guesses, like everyone else
I merely said they are capable of replacing these guys. They have a proven track record at this particular position and we all know the names. This idea that the Seahawks can’t replace Bennett and Avril without spending big or drafting early is overly pessimistic. Of course they can do it.
In fact if there’s one area where they’ve consistently found guys it’s on the D-line (and obviously CB too).
Change is coming. They’ll be fine.
The “been there done that” was under Cable’s parameters. This will be totally new, a different voice in the room helping decide what he wants in O-linemen.
I think we just need to get back to drafting/signing road graders. Guys who are run first blockers and pass blockers second. If you can get that run game going then the pass blocking doesnt need to be as good.
I still think the Seahawks will trade back and wont be picking at 18 anyways. Here is a little more information I found. Its not a super big deal but every dollar counts. Here is what the contacts could look like at certain picks:
18…4 years $12.1 million
26…4 years $10.9 million
31…4 years $9.6 million
32…4 years $9.5 million
33…4 years $7.5 million
34…4 years $7.4 million
Big gap between rounds 1 & 2. They just might want to get out of the 1st round all together.
Nice. 2.5M is a lot. Assuming if we trade down we are adding a 3rd rounders salary, but of course that’s a roster spot so you would come out ahead? Too tired to do the mental calculations.
If we go from 18 to say 33 that’s $4.5 million over 4 years, so about $1.125 million a year.
Yeah, meant to type 4.5. Significant for sure.
Thank Atlanta at 26 makes a lot of sense for us as a trade partner if there is a defensive tackle still on the board that they want.
There is also the option year for 1st rounders vs 2nd rounders to consider. Some position skyrocket when they hit FA… QB is a prime example… and having a guy in a cost controlled situation is much more ideal for a team looking for a QB, than say a RB…. since QB top out at 27M/year and RB top out at 8M.
Very good point as well Charlie
Thank you for posting this! Do you have the splits from R2 and R3 by any chance? I’m being lazy and trying to run through how much we should allocate to actual FA and leave for the draft.
Here you can find the 2018 cap for every draft pick – http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/draft/
As it stands, Seattle has to account for $5,995,471 with their current draft picks.
After looking at this there’s no way they don’t trade out of the first I’m sorry lol.
Jones is my favorite player for us in this draft, partly because I have not spent as much time on the guards and am not as comfortable projecting that position. I’ll say that the guards I’m comfortable with contributing from the jump are all first or second rounders. Not true for RB. I’ll keep beating the drum for John Kelly as a likely 4th rounder who improves the position from day one and can be a strong 3 down back in the NFL. Chubb might be available late 2nd or even early 3rd. You probably need to draft Hernandez early 2nd. Either way, you’ve got to address RB. It’s the weakest position in the roster, IMO. And RB absolutely effects yards before contact, as mentioned in the post.
A few weeks ago Ray Roberts was on ESPN 710 talking about how they had no continuity of game plan or scheme up front. I would tend to believe this. This group has been terribly miscast. The trench explosion formula measured explosive traits for the lineman. Bench, broad jump, and the vertical jump. And yet none of these explosive traits match the lateral necessities of the scheme. This is not the strength of a man such as Germain ifedi. All the explosive testing would lend itself to a straight-forward drive block. A guy like glowinski also struggled in this scheme because he lacked the overall foot speed to move side to side and to climb to the second level. Players were also asked to cut block on many plays both running and passing. Moving laterally against a better athlete is not a great situation but adding a low success rate cut block on to of it is seeing someone up for failure.
Roberts then goes on to say that he believed the offensive lineman didn’t have very many tools in the tool bag. That is to say they had only one move with which to counter a pass Rush. They were elementary and predictable. That makes it easy to game plan for and crushes the confidence of a very young overall line up front.
I think there is a lot of clay to mold for Solari. He is proven, variable in scheme and a great teacher. I coach offensive line for my local high school. Year after year it is amazing how vital communication and delivering your expectations is to a player. I think a new voice and methodology will be great for these guys and the results will be quickly noticeable.
That sounds right. If the OL are going to be asked to adapt to a new scheme, it’s going to be interesting to see who’s able to do so and also see if some might struggle with it. My worry once again is learning something new and being able to learn it so well that you’ve unlearned what you might have been asked to do before is often a challenge. It also takes time to do right.
And another worry is we could once again be off to a slow start waiting for the line to gel, which happened last year.
The interview you are referring to was on 710 a few weeks back. I respect Ray Roberts…. not just because he was a Seahawk, but he was a more than capable OG in the NFL for a number of years. If he can see these flaws, then it is sure as hell apparent to any DC or DL coach reviewing the tape.
The most glaring example was the Ifedi dropping to the same exact spot on every snap…. predictably.
What I can’t figure out is why this was allowed to occur? Not enough self scouting?
I refuse to believe Ifedi could not be a very capable OG at the min and possibly RT in the right scheme. When he gets his hands on guys he can move anyone…. he has too much power displayed in his run blocking (from time to time).
Agreed. Cable is a pretty old school guy. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he would grind these guys with the fundamentals he knows. Now there does seem to be some excuses. The fact that he had to keep training and retraining people every year would make it hard to progress past the basics in certain aspects. However if I were to guess, adapting the run and pass was not a priority for cable. He is a zone-blocking scheme Guru with a spotty history in pass protection and he stuck to what he knew best at the expense of the players he had a o work with.
One minor correction: Ray played left tackle.
You bring in a guy like Price in the draft, you expect a Steve Hutchinson type of output from him.. for his career. I was amused to see someone list Price as a back-up on the OL in 2018. He will start, if they draft him. It would be highly unusually and frankly it would be disheartening to have an OL pick mid 1st round which could not even start from day #1.
This is not to besmirch Britt. I think he has done a fine job…. the guard play around him has been suspect from time to time.
If you’re talking about me listing Price as a backup, go look closer.
“Did the running backs contribute in making the O-line look worse than it was?”
Maybe a smidge. But by and large it was the line. Perhaps Barry Sanders could have run behind this line, his lines in Detroit weren’t much better but he’s a generational talent. Lacy didn’t forget how to run, but he needs to be kept clean until he can build up steam to hit the line with. He wasn’t getting it. Most of the backs were getting hit before they got to the LOS. Wilson was running for his life about a second after the snap. A clean 2.5 to 3 second pocket rarely happened.
Is it the fault of coaching, or the talent level. I think it’s a bit of both. Ethan Pocic is the first lineman this regime has drafted that had the skills to be a pro when he hit training camp. Most of that I
blame on Cable. He must have talked a great fight to get everyone on staff that he could coach up a door knob as long as it met a set of size and explosiveness parameters. It hasn’t worked. That’s on Cable. His one success story is Britt, but that took three years and two position changes.
Do we need to scrap what we have and start over? I don’t think so. Brown is an all-pro. He came to us that way. Pocic has all the skills, doesn’t miss assignments, and plays through the whistle with a nasty attitude. But he needs to get stronger. Will he be able to? Time will tell. Ifedi. I watched the Houston game today on NFL Network. I noticed two things. Ifedi is a train wreck who has so much to learn and is so far away from being NFL ready. Second, he’s a mammoth scary man who if he ever does get it together, will be a joy to watch as he demolishes defensive lines. Will he ever get there? Let Solari do his thing. I wouldn’t mind adding a little more talent though, and I’m hoping O-line talent evaluations will be based around skill-sets and performance in games rather than measurables from now on.
Blow it up? Not yet. But it has to be a priority because this team is going nowhere if that line doesn’t improve. That is the group that needs to be the core of the team. They need to keep the most valuable asset on this team protected. Control the time of possession and keep the defense fresh. A great line can make almost any RB look great. A bad one can turn Barry Sanders into a perennial loser and potentially put your QB on the IR.
Personally I think the running backs deserve a lot of blame for the bad running game.
I’m in the camp that doesn’t think the running game will improve until the blocking improves. Under Cable, it felt like the first few years leading up to the superbowl were pretty good. The high point was the conversion of Sweezy from defense to offensive guard. Breno turned out to be a decent right tackle, though he showed one of Seahawks weaknesses of false starts. After the superbowls it seemed like there was a lot of position rotation of lineman. Where was Britt going to go? I’m not sure if center is really his best position or just where he landed on the third swing. What happened to Glowinski? From starter to failure. There are a lot of coaching questions there.
Anyway, I’m not sure whether it is the coaching, the play design, zone vs power, or what. But the run blocking was poor, and not getting any better. Hopefully this change in coaching will start a new era in Seahawks running.
Blocking does need to improve. But it’ll be a mistake if anyone thinks the RB’s aren’t responsible too. Quite frankly, Rawls and Lacy were terrible last season. And the difference between Carson and those two was palpable.
There are lots of things to change to fix this issue. There’s not one outstanding thing. It’s a combination of things — blocking, scheme, execution, organisation, running backs.
Look @ Chris Carson.
Carson averaged 4.0 YPC with the same line others struggled with. But agree, it’s a combo of things generally as top why the run game struggled.
Pocic wasn’t the only pick. okung, carpenter. both injured players who went on to have solid careers.
Britt wasn’t the only success. Sweezy worked pretty well for what he was.
the big issue to me is simply relying in Wilson and lynch to cover up for a bad oline and insisting on paying the lions share if the salaries to the defense. As opposed to creating continuity on the line. think of how many players have been on the line since PC first got here…..its pretty unbelievable.
Okung was decent, but he already was coming out of college and coveted by a lot of other teams. And it’s not like he got better under Cable. Carpenter was drafted as tackle in round 1, paid 1st round tackle money, and was a failure at that spot. He eventually became a journeyman guard. Considering where he was drafted and what he was supposed to be, he was a player you could have found in the 4th round.
He was a first round blocker playing with sixth round Knees. Never worried about his blocking while he played, I just worried about whether he would be healthy or not.
One more thing I’d like to point out. The stats on run effectiveness are misleading. It looks like we were horrible running up the middle, and we were. It looks like we were better running outside, and it’s not true. We sucked there as well. What hides it is that when Russell Wilson had to run for his life and pass plays turned into runs, he was usually running to the left or right, and those yards were counted as rushing yards, though clearly the fact that he was running was another demonstration of the line failing at its job.
That graphic was RB plays only
I want Isiah wynn and ronald jones, I hope the dalvin cook experience from last year will cause jones to slide a little bit. I would not be upset about getting jones in the first round though, having an extra year option is very nice.
cook slid because of a middling combine and character concerns. if anything, unfortunately for fans, I think jones will go the opposite direction post combine.
A fan can only dream right? haha
Any thoughts on Maea Teuhema?
Man.. It’s being reported that Seattle will likely only get a late 2nd at best for Earl. That’s ridiculous. Pete and John are actually terrible at trading and if they do that I’m done with them. That’s just stupid.
It does seem like when it comes to FA trades, the Seahawks buy high and sell low, but they have made it work for the most part. Don’t lose faith in them yet.
Better to get something than nothing. He’s had a major injury. He’s contemplated retiring. He’s on a 3rd contract. Get a high 2nd, move a little down from 18 and still come away with Wynn/Jones. Works for me.
Agreed
agreed. it’s either the 2nd or basically nothing/or pay that dreaded third contract….
not a good spot either way.
well..there is a third option (my preference for all our vets except RW)..let ET play out his final year and then let him go F.A.
which gets the team basically nothing. maybe a fourth round comp pick?
I’ve been beating the “you’re not getting a first for ET” drum this entire off season.
The value of a player in the trade market is a combination of age/mileage, talent, and contract. ET has a lot mileage on his body and is starting to miss a few games, two years in a row his hamstring has acted up. He has all the talent in the world so that’s not an issue. But his contract: one year of control remains and he will want an Eric Berry sized deal. Why would a team give up a Rd1 pick just to hand out an albatross third contract? I just don’t see it happening.
That’s not a report Coleslaw. Someone asked the OTC guy what he thought Earl Thomas’ value was and he had a guess.
I think there will be teams more than willing to part with a top-40 pick for Earl.
+1 🙂
Oh, my bad then. Well that’s good! He’s a hall of famer he has to bring in a high pick
Always felt OTC Jason is brilliant at cap stuff and comp pick prognostication, not so much on evaluating player value on the FA & trade markets.
All conjecture at this point. I look at a team like Cleveland, whom is expected to spend a lot in free agency, and has a ton of draft capital. And say, hey if a ton of people are mocking Minoan Fitzpatrick to them at 4. Then why is it improbable for them to go after Earl, whom is both elite and a proven commodity. Not that I would ever expect that, just saying there are many ways to look at thungs.
If Cleveland is serious about winning they need to go after Earl Thomas! Tell Lebron James to call ET! Titans too
Honestly, if Earl is being as cancerous behind the scenes as we can believe from his recent public actions (e.g., feuding with Wagner when he was trying to lead the D, telling the Cowboys to “come get him” if they could, threatening to hold out while he still has a year on his deal), I’d trade him for a late second.
The LOB (and to a lesser extent, the rest of the defense) has gotten too entitled, too comfortable. They’ve forgotten how hungry they were when they were nobodies. Trading Earl sends a message to the defense that the front office is not going to give Players as much leash as the defense enjoyed after Marshawn started getting his way. Shape up or get shipped out. Nobody is above the team.
+1
I don’t think he’s being cancerous. He sees the end coming and being a Texas boy, a part of him wants to play for the team he worshiped growing up. He’ll play hard for us because it’s his nature. He’ll play hard no matter where he winds up because he knows no other way.
I see quite a few posts about trade ET3 to this team or that team but with only one-year left on his deal I don’t think teams are going to give up as much as some would hope.
Sure there’s always the possibility that the team he’s traded to can sign him to an extension but realistically would he sign an extension with any other team other than Dallas? I’d guess probably not unless it was a huge overpay.
Spot on Rajesh, I have seen you get a lot of hate both here and on /r/seahawks for your views, but I feel that is usually coming from a place of homerism and not looking at things logically. It really makes 0 sense to give third contracts to defensive players, defense needs to be young and hungry, sure give them one big second contract but never give a third. I was pretty upset when they upped Kam (even though I love him) because I KNEW he would get injured. When has he ever played a full season?
Also spot on with this take, ever since Marshawn its become a me too situation, with Shawn, then Kam, then Bennet, and now Earl. The core of our defense going forward should be Clark, Wagner, and KJ and Shaq.
Although I think a low 2nd is too little, I would say high 2nd as a worst, but you have to push for at least a low #1 pick. It is time for them to do the patriot move of getting rid of talent a year too early rather than a year too late.
Troy +3 I got savaged too.
After multiple rough drafts(LOL). This is my final 3 cents.
TRADE: Earl Thomas to Dallas R2 &R4, Richard Sherman to Atlanta R3, and Justin Britt(I know huge cap hit) to Oakland for R4.
FRANCHISE TAG: Sheldon Richardson = Trade or Extention
CUT: Cliff Avril, Jeremy Lang & Jon Ryan
COMP PICKS: Jimmy Graham and Luke Joeckel
(Leaves 30 million in cap space) Per Over the cap calculator
EXTEND: Duane Brown and Frank Clark
RESIGN: B. McDougal
I would be in. Two changes:
No Richardson, so comp pick. Cut/trade Bennett (maybe 5th or 6th).
5 million cap hit if trade Bennett. June 1st cut only 1 million or so. I cant get over the production he put out. I think he stays on but scheme him to play 50 %. Could be deadly in that role in my opinion.
The tag and trade game might not work. There is verbiage about the intent of using the franchise tag to ensure ‘best efforts made by the team to sign the player to a long term contract’, Personally, if we don’t want to continue with S Richardson, you have to let him leave and take the comp pick. Otherwise it might not workout for you.
I read this and think the biggest problem right now with protecting Wilson is being able to run the ball as this doesnt let the defensive ends tee off on him, and second he needs to help with not running himself into pressure. Those two things will help immensely in keeping him upright.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/2/18/17024836/models-seattle-seahawks-gm-john-schneider-offensive-line-mike-solari-kc-chiefs-green-bay-packers
I always wondered why the Hawks don’t try to slow down the opposing pash rushes with more screens and draw plays. That used to be the traditional way to do it..maybe the NFL linebackers are just too good now for that to work..but I do see teams that use screens effectively.
Good point Mike, that is the best way to do it if your run game is garbage. I noticed they started to do it towards the end of the season where I never saw really any screens early on.
Some people, and I have no idea if this is a real thing, have suggested that his lack of height hinders the ability to throw the screen over and around defenders.
Could be something to that, but you can also in between the lineman as well. It’s not as good as over the top though. Holmgren never ran screens either. It would be nice to see more.
Sorry: Ugh. Hit submit too soon.
RESIGN: D. Shead, M.Smith, B.Maxwell, D. McDonald
TENDER(RFA): D. Jordan, J. Coleman, M. Davis
(ERFA): Q. Jefferson, J. Forrest, B. Jackson, G.Smith, JD McKissic
These are all a must. I would like to see Dawson as well
“We know Russell Wilson occasionally runs himself into trouble” – I think this is a huge understatement. Ben Baldwin came to this conclusion while studying all of Wilson’s sacks in 2017:
https://twitter.com/guga31bb/status/962371942744510469
The question is how much of this is due to the OL, and how much is this due to Russ himself. IMHO Wilson frequently looked like a one read QB far too often last year who would bail on the pocket rather than slide around with it. Not all the time, of course, but too much of the time. He isn’t going to be able to make those plays with his legs forever. And all the running backwards simply has to stop. For every play like the crazy pass to Baldwin in the Arizona game there seem to be multiple negative plays.
Russell has flaws and needs some continued development to reach his potential, sure. But he’s a top 5 Wb with those flaws. I’d say for every sack he helped cause, he escaped at least one. The is room for improvement with every aspect of this offense. Wilson and Baldwin are the only two clear strengths right now.
Doubt this trend continues. He never looked like a one read QB, he looked like a QB who couldn’t find open receivers because teams were not scared of the run and dropped 7+ back into coverage every play.
Of course he runs himself into trouble, he is trying too hard to do too much. He was literally the offense. You don’t look like a one read QB and have as good of a season as Russell did. Wilson needs support, not a 6’6 tight end that gives 0 effort until the red zone, he needs playmakers who can get the ball out of his hands.
We’ve now given Russell an OC who is going to have him hit the checkdown more (eliminates that scrambling unnecessarily) and who will commit to the run.
This is a good draft to set up Schotty for a great season.
Dallas for Earl Thomas pick #50 and 112. Atlanta for Richard Sherman pick #90. Oakland for Justin Britt pick #106.
1. Trade pick #18 to Carolina for pick #24 and #54.
2. Trade pick #159 to Cincinnati for pick #172 and #199(From Denver)
2018 Draft
1. (24) Billy Price OG
2. (50) Sony Michel RB
3. (54) Tim Settle DT
4. (90) Lorenzo Carter OLB
5. (106) Jeff Holland OLB
6. (112) Dalton Schultz TE
7. (116) Jaylon Samuels FB/TE
8. (132) J. Bates III FS/SS
9. (137) Andrew Brown DE
10. (172) JK Scott P
11. (199) Cedrick Wilson WR
12. (200) David Wells TE
13. (209) Bryce Bobo WR
14. (222) Kamryn Pettway RB
15. (224) Justin Yoon K
Tim Settle is not making it past Rd1
I’m not convinced Price will make it out of the top 15 picks. But the thinking behind the slight trade down is spot on in my opinion.
I’m struggling with the right combination of players that would give Seattle the most bang for the buck.
If you draft a OG and RB, would that be better for the team than say a DT and TE with the first 2 picks.
I’m feeling pretty confident they have the guys for the secondary in place. The LB group is also mystifying…. if you grab a guy in the 2nd round (for example) would that be as big of an addition as a RB to the Seattle team?
Conversely, if a player such as Price falls to Seattle, how can you pass on the guy? Would 1 guy be worth more than 2 guys later in the draft?????
I wonder if the expiration of the NFLPA agreement in 2020 (?) will have any impact on the willingness of teams to offer big FA contracts (especially third contracts like ET and RS are looking for). I think the players are going to be looking for significant improvements in getting more contract money guaranteed (like baseball and basketball have)..while the owners could be actually looking at reduced tv revenues (and salary caps) if the cuurent viewership trends continue.
I would say the potential for a work stoppage/strike is very high..
Good point absolutely
Seattle barely has anyone signed past this CBO…
yeah..except for franchise qb’s ..it wouldn’t surprise me to see the free agent market significantly slow down as we approach the end of that CBA.
There is a reason for this…. you, me and everyone else has no idea how the CBA will turn out after the next work stoppage / lockout or w/e. Why pay guys past that point if you could be paying them way too much or too little … I think that is smart. Maintain maximum flexibility with the limited budget from year to year.
Hell, we don’t even know if there will be a salary cap, a salary floor or a luxury tax similar to the NBA.
They might do away with comp picks or redo how they are computed. They might expand the draft to 8 or 9 rounds again, to make up for no comp picks. There might be limits based upon the total % of a salary cap that any single payer can make each year (for example: think of QBs making 30M+ eating 20% of the total cap).
imagine having a $30 million per year qb on the books..and then the salary cap contracts 20% when the network television contracts are renegotiated(down)…
Imagine you are a team without a QB and you are close to the cap.. then pay Kirk Cousins 30M/year…. that is what is truly scary
the reason the Hawks have no salaries into the new CBA is just timing of their existing contracts and they like to do 3 and 4 year contracts.
Not too many owners are afraid of the new CBA. Players will cave, they have smaller window of time to play, and the majority of players only play 3 to 4 years. They cannot lose a year.
No indication TV money will go down. Despite a drop in ratings, NFL is still the king of TV, and the ratings drops were not huge. Better to look at revenue. TV networks need the NFL, they make money from it and the cost works for them. They won’t try to renegotiate a lower price because then they lose the contract. They do not want that. How many great shows are on TV right now that you have to watch when they first air? Anything besides sports?
If you are going to sign players and look at the CBA, you have to consider these things.
1. If the owners win, business as usual, so any contracts signed are ok.
2. If the players win, maybe they get more guaranteed money in NEW contracts, or maybe salary cap goes up, so any contracts signed before the CBA are even better.
3. The owners will win the negotiations. Players may get some crumbs, but they hold the advantage and billionaires are rich because they are pretty good at screwing people when they have the advantage.
the new CBA coming up will have minimal effect on who gets signed and for how much.
the tv ratings have been in severe decline (high single digit)…and the most important demographic to advertisers (25-44) appears to have little or no interest in the NFL. Many of the stadiums were half full for the games last season. No way they get anywhere near the money they got with the last network contract..and that will flow directly into the salary caps.
Also, I think it was widely acknowledged the owners got the best of the players the last time the CBA was negotiated…I don’t expect the players to give up so easy this time..but twt
.
NFL has HUGE problems, it’s a complete mess! So many completely separate issues. The NFL is Humpty Dumpty sitting on a wall!
Age 18-34 viewership down nearly 33% (combined) over the past two years..
Age 18-54 down 20% over same time period..
http://awfulannouncing.com/cbs/nfls-2017-ratings-slide-mainly-fueled-white-viewers-younger-viewers.html
is REVENUE down??
doubt it, and every TV contract they sign will have the other networks competing.
Now eventually, this may be a factor, but the days of the NFL being in financial trouble are a long ways off.
and if the TV networks lose the NFL, what is their replacement cost for that time slot? And the show right after it which sucks in NFL viewers.
and the owners know what the TV networks want way in advance of the players and they use that as part of their negotiations.
is revenue down??
yes..the networks had to write off nearly $500 million this year alone on their NFL contracts. I believe those contracts come up again for negotiation in 2022..so the league has time to fix things..but you better believe GM’s like JS will start to factor in the real possibility of salary cap decreases into their financial plans pretty soon..
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nfl-tv-partners-set-lose-500-million-ratings-decline/
The NFL receives lots of tax breaks those days are coming to an end. Tons of reasons why NFL is dying including the fact zero Asian audience. SuperBowl = 100 million viewers vs Chinese New Year Celebration 1 Billion viewers.
What is he cap situation if Hawks decided to move on from Britt this off season? $9 mil per is a lot for a Center who has had 2 awful seasons the one good season then one OK season.
who plays center then? Pocic couldn’t handle inside pressure as a guard is he going to handle it better with more responsibilities?
Where did all this move on from Britt talk come from. That’s not happening!!! Better look elsewhere for cap relief…
how does anyone think the solution to o line problems are to get rid of your 2nd best player and the only one that has played there for 4 years? His salary is not atrocious, his play took a dip last year, but he is still at least an average to above average centre. They have to fix the guard spots and figure out if Ifedi plays RT or somewhere else.
2nd best o lineman, not overall player on the team
Relax I am asking the question based on Robs premise in the article of drafting Price and Wynn. In that scenario Price would be the C and Wynn the LG.
That is why I asked Britts cap statsus.
By the way being the 2nd best OL man on the worst OL in the league does not make you a $9 mil per year player.
low bar indeed.
but I would argue they did not have the worst o line in the league last year.
sad as that is to consider, there were worse, including the Giants.
although I am optimistic about hiring their o line coach to replace Cable,
which may not be the wisest thing…..
His cap hit is only $6.1 this year and $7.9 next year so not bad. If you released or traded him you would actually lose cap space so I dont see him going anywhere.
Thanks Greg I don’t think he is going anywhere either and hope the new OL coach and scheme helps out the entire OL.
I personally don’t see the Hawks as SB contenders next year but think if they handle things right could be legit contenders in 2019-2020.
With that line of thinking I would love to see them focus on fixing OL and run game this off season and add a ton of youth on defense to get experience and find out who can play.
Then next offseason add any pieces you need on D and make a legit SB run.
I’d let the offseason play out before making any statements about their worthiness as a contender.
who saw the Eagles as contenders last summer?
Fair enough! Hope like heck I am wrong.
I kind of view Seattle similar to Green Bay. As long as they have RW at QB and a couple of solid weapons, they’ll likely always be in the mix for the playoffs.
RW is no Aaron Rodgers but with ADB & some key pieces still on D, not all is lost IMO.
Roc Thomas, DS #19 RB, Jacksonville State
Is this a guy we should be watching in the mid rounds as a WR pick for Seattle?
One site is saying he is rising up the draft boards now, projected 6th rounder.
Paul Richardson 2.0? Small 5’10” and 185 or so.
I’m really hoping seattle goes big or at least bigger at WR. or if they pursue someone slight they go after someone with YAC ability.
I mentioned him near the beginning of the season. Not sure he’s the kind of project we’re interested in.
Rumor he will be in the low to mid 4.3s …. which makes people take notice quick.
Highly highly highly doubtful
Timely
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/2/18/17024836/models-seattle-seahawks-gm-john-schneider-offensive-line-mike-solari-kc-chiefs-green-bay-packers
I don’t care how undersized he is Ronald Jones is gonna hit the ground running in the NFL. Some guys in college just look like they don’t belong. That’s Jones, plays so much faster than the college level, he’s ready for the NFL. I think that’s a big reason Kamara did so well, they both play extremely fast.
Idk how to word it, but he looks like a generational talent. I mean I really feel like I’m looking back at Jamaal Charles knowing he’s a star. Rojo is the real deal and is gonna be the future of whatever franchise drafts him.
Agree 100%. Best pure runner in the draft and I think he can step into the right system (heavy outside zone) and be one of the league’s most effective backs. Not scheme dependent either, as he was arguably misused at USC as an almost pure inside runner and was still fantastic. The only questions are whether his size leads to durability issues and if he develops into a true three down back as a blocker and receiver.
He’s not all THAT small. He’s 200 lbs. that’s not huge, but he doesn’t run soft. I love the guy.
Should Seattle take a look / sign Bruce Irvin if he is indeed cut by the Raiders ?
No doubt, brings more value than McDougold and adds a rotational pass rusher. Should help against the run quite a bit too.
It will be interesting to see what he gets. He LOVES Norton. He’d be a potential nice signing if the price is low.
if you want to get younger, he is 30 years old I believe
plus, I doubt Raiders release him, they NEED defense
Greg Bell of the Tacoma News Tribune reports that a specific target we have talked about in free agency (Austin Seferian Jenkins) would love it if the Seahawks made him an offer. Not sure if this was solicited or not but news anyways.
Gregg Bell
@gbellseattle
·
4h
Fox Island native, former Gig Harbor HS and #UWHuskies star would love if #Seahawks made an offer
This is definitely one to monitor. He recently hired Doug Henderson as his agent who a great working relationship with John Schneider.
what do people expect from ASJ next year? about 5 td’s/ 400 yards? would he be just a replacement for Luke Willson?
just curious because he’s had a pretty uneventful career this far and could probably use a change of scenery. I’m just not sure he brings anything at good value that the team doesn’t already have. thanks
I’m also curious what he expects his market to be. he did turn down a fair contract from the jets but I think that had more to do with them being the jets then anything elsr.
ASJ certainly has more upside than Willson. I think he can definitely be a red zone weapon and I do think he will get a decent contract and probably price himself out of our range.
+1
I think his upside is still out there to be had and it is probably much greater than Willson’s. There could be a chance he turned down the Jets offer because he wants to return to the NW
I’m actually a Luke Willson fan, and kinda believe had Seattle not traded for Graham his trajectory as starter could have been brighter than some expected. That said, it sort of felt to me that as this last season went on the team seemed to favor Vannett as the second tight end. Kinda why I came to the conclusion that maybe the team might well roll with Vannett as the starter in 2018.
I’m not opposed to asj, I’m just not high on his upside. I worry about a player that’s never played a full season. And his production isn’t gret. Now again he hasn’t played a full season so that effects the numbers and he hasn’t played with good who’s but I would worry that the team would pay a guy as much again as Willson to play 9 games (his average over four years). Not sure that helps Seattle when they need blocking talent.
“A good qb,”. Meant to say
Jaleel Scott and Eqanimeous St. Brown would sure help this offense. Would love to snag both in the 5th and 6th rounds. If RoJo is really what Rob thinks, and after watching his worst game looking for good traits (i try and evaluate running backs off of their worst statistical games and only look at the positives, because those are whats there when the rest of the team fails). You can see the explosion even in his short runs.
Here’s a link for those who don’t feel like looking it up
https://youtu.be/wViBolqiqnM
This is unequivocally his worst game. But look at the run at 15 seconds
He’s such a determined running, you pair speed like that with Russell and then Pepper in some Chris Carson and the offense will look considerably better. Watch that game and tell me that you aren’t still impressed given that his line and QB could do nothing against a smothering ohio state defense.
And above i meant to say if RoJo is really what Rob says i think it puts the Hawks right back in the 11 to 13 win range.
Get a few defensive pieces, make the D faster and this team is going to look very nice.
Would love to have Wynn of Ga, even at #18. think he can play guard and tackle at a high level for either Ifedi or Brown if he gets injured or after he’s gone. You were right about Wynn before everyone and kept reading the daily practice reports from the senior bowl; he dominated there every day and never lost a battle vs. anyone until his shoulder injury forced him to leave.
Saw a good article about Tim Settle of Va Tech at draftanalyst.com – http://draftanalyst.com/notes-combine-training-settle-looks-cat-quik
“Another ACC defensive lineman to keep an eye on during the combine is Tim Settle of Virginia Tech, who is presently graded as a third-round choice on our board. While he won’t blister in the 40, I’m told Settle’s 10-yard splits have been fast recently, clocking as low as 1.61.
That’s quick for a guy expected to tip the scales around 325 pounds. By comparison, Eddie Vanderdoes of UCLA had the fastest 10-yard split at last year’s combine, timing 1.69. Rams All-Pro tackle Aaron Donald was clocked at 1.63 when he worked out at the combine.
Settle also timed 7.18 in the three-cone last week. Ryan Glasgow was the fastest a year ago at 7.54.”
Rob or anyone, if a top 10-12 talent like Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Quentin Nelson, etc. drops to us because teams pick the 5 possible 1st round QBs, who would you prefer?
Also, what other lower round RBs seem good for a day 3 pick that have that tough running style like Carson? Can think of Williams, the RB behind Guice of LSU, maybe Adams of Notre Dame, Nall of Oregon St. or Franklin of W. Mich.; Williams in the 7th and try for the last 2 as UFAs after the draft?
John Kelly from Tennessee runs like a demon with great feet and balance. Very similar to Guice – I can’t see how there can be a 3 or 4 round difference between the two. If he goes in the 4th or 5th, someone is getting great value.
Any of those three would be a huge get but I don’t see any scenario where Vea and Nelson get out of the top-10 and Edmunds likely doesn’t get by Miami and Cincy.
This is Rob (not) and if Quentin Nelson is there the question is over. And I might be tempted for Tim Settle. It seems like he is another Cortez Kennedy, and I can’t get that out of my head.
Lots of interesting meat in this draft, and I am hoping that Mr S can do his magic.
The draft is the ultimate puzzle, in that we have opinions from every direction, nothing is certain, and millions of dollars are at risk. I spent my youth hoping to be an athlete. I was mistaken, I should have become an agent.
I just couldn’t be trusted if Vea was still on the board. He’s a freak. After watching him for the past few seasons, I am also of the opinion that his best football may be ahead of him. Once he learns more moves, more counters, he could be even more dangerous.
If he somehow slides to 18 and Seattle doesn’t draft him, I will loose all my marbles. I don’t think he gets out of the top 10. I think he is going to put on a show at the combine
I’m putting two responses together in one but it seems almost impossible that he’s be their but if veae was at 18, you’d almost have to run to the podium.
The second part is for me I think Tim Settle is very much a player Seattle should consider early. On the interior there is no one at that young age who can move like that. Perhaps giving Seattle an inside terror that they haven’t had before.
+ 1
I think an option at 18 should be Settle or Vea. Then franchise Richardson to trade for a 3rd rounder and use the FA $ elsewhere.
My concern is that the LA Chargers will pick right before Seahawks. They need defensive linemen so I don’t think Vea will get past them.
Vea won’t even last that long. He’s too good. Have said it many times — I’ve watched him live twice and it’s not until you see him flying around at 340lbs that you realise how special he is. Top-10.
🙂
Rob I have been looking at Settle and Vea this weekend as I feel like the Hawks have missed Mebane on the DL. I think both guys are top 15 players in this class with the ability to be dominant run defenders requiring a constant double team and 6-8 sack potential.
My question is for which guy do you prefer, who is a better fit for the Hawks and could they be a consideration at #18?
I know Wags would be a happy man if we drafted either guy.
Vea is better. But both good.
I don’t see Vea having any shot whatsoever to last until #18. Worst case scenario for him is #13 to Washington. Vea will go top-10.
Settle might be there at #18 but I think they’ll focus on the running game.
Rob, you have consistently rated Settle as a 1st rounder. Yet most of the national media views him as a day 2 pick. Do you think he will be this year’s version of King or Reddick? – a player you identified early but was not taken seriously until after the combine?
I think he is a top-40 lock and considering nobody was talking about him until just recently, I think it’s fair to say he’ll be one of those types. His stock is difficult to work out though. Could see him going top-50 as a rare, unique talent but big DT’s don’t rise as high as incredible, athletic LB/Pass rush types so he might end up in the 20’s or 30’s. I think we were right to highlight him though whatever happens. He’s a terrific player.
If the Hawks want to become bullies again particularly on offense how about this option. Assuming we trade back into early 2nd.
Draft Will Hernandez in early 2nd
Sign DJ Fluker who played for Solari last year and really improved the Giants run game when inserted at RG.
The OL would be the biggest unit in NFL with Britt being the smallest guy.
LT Brown / backup Fant
LG Hernandez / backup Rees
C Britt / backup Pocic
RG Fluker / backup Roos
RT Ifedi / backup Fant or Fluker
I prefer Wynn then Price at LG but think they go in 1st.
Could be a good option. I would guess it might be one or the other (high draft pick/free agent). You just have to think that Pocic is going to be in that starting lineup one way or another. If you had a choice between a high draft pick or a veteran free agent which one would you want? The free agent takes away cap space and the draft pick would limit other positions you could draft early.
I think with Pocic is depends if he has increased his functional strength and base this off season. If not I don’t see him as a starter unfortunately. If he has then for sure.
Eagles LeGarrett Blount set to test free agency. He might be a good option to bring in for one year. Have a good 3 headed monster with a draft pick, Chris Carson and him plus McKissic and Prosise as well. Only had a cap hit of $1.25 million last year.
I agree I was hoping they would pick him last year but went with Lacy instead. Would like to seem as our short yardage / goal line RB and he would be a veteran with a hard nosed edge in the RB room.
He’s alsp won three of the last 4 superbowls. So read into that what you will
When you look at his poor paydays, it makes you realize that there are plenty of good backs out there on the free agency market and in the draft.
Bo Scarbrough, 235 pound running back from Alabama, has all the makings of another back who will perform well when healthy, but will never see a big payday. Why not take a late round flyer on him?