Russell Wilson and the offense couldn’t finish on a day Seattle’s defense struggled
This was a typical Seattle loss. A couple of units didn’t play great (defense, special teams). It felt like a long day after Kansas City’s long opening drive for a score. And yet at the end of the fourth quarter there they are with a chance to win the game.
They’ve lost four times this year all by single digits, three on the road. Three of those teams have winning records. The team that doesn’t, St. Louis, beat Denver today. It’s a tough break, but the Seahawks are 6-4 after this latest heart-breaker.
So often since 2012 they’ve found a way to win in these situations. Now they’re in a hole. The margin for error is almost non existent the rest of the way. What’s left: Arizona (H), San Francisco (A), Philadelphia (A), San Francisco (H), Arizona (A), St. Louis (H).
Look at that schedule. If they want to make the post-season, they’re probably going to have to win at least one — maybe two — of those road games. They’d also need a clean sweep at home.
The NFC West might be gone already unless the Cardinals suffer some sort of unlikely collapse. The 49ers won’t go away either. They’re up to 6-4 with two key road wins in New Orleans and New York.
It’s going to take a heck of a rally to make the playoffs with that run in. The Seahawks couldn’t defend the run today and every single one of those remaining opponents run the ball particularly well.
Right now 9-7 doesn’t seem unlikely — and it’s unlikely to be enough. It also wouldn’t be overly surprising. This isn’t a bad team, but it’s a team that’s had to deal with avoidable drama (Percy Harvin), injuries to key personnel and a drop in defensive talent. None of these are ingredients for a Super Bowl run. The good news is they’re good enough to bounce back. The bad news is — it might take an off-season to re-load.
Thoughts on the game
You could look at this two ways. On the one hand, even an average defensive performance could’ve won the day for Seattle. The Seahawks moved the ball efficiently, but Kansas City were like a hot knife through butter attacking a weak defensive front.
And yet on offense they get a 1st and goal with a chance to go ahead. The result? Zero points. They get the ball back at midfield and fail to convert on 4th and 1 to extend what could’ve been a game-winning drive. Again, zero points.
So while the defense and special teams will concern people the most after today — the offense missed two great opportunities late on to finish.
The most frustrating thing is how one-dimensional Kansas City were. Alex Smith was a passenger in this game. He was akin to a postal worker delivering a ball-shaped package to Jamaal Charles. It’s rare to see a team fall back on one element so prolifically against Seattle. Smith went 11/16 for a mere 108 yards. He was never pressured, never broke sweat apart from a slightly nervy possession on the Chiefs one-yard line. He wasn’t sacked and he didn’t take a single QB hit. Charles on the other hand ran against a defense that knew what was coming — and still put up 159 yards on 20 carries.
He’s an exceptional talent, no doubt. But the Seahawks had no answer. Most of his best runs included missed tackles. It seemed like the Chiefs had an easy seven yards on every first down. They were barely ever in third and long. The Seahawks never forced Smith, Charles or anyone on the Chiefs offense into a truly uncomfortable position.
The defense also forced two key turnovers and had two more key stops to give the offense a late chance. So it wasn’t all bad. But when it mattered, Seattle couldn’t make that game winning play — whether it was having an answer on defense after going up 20-17 or finishing one of their fourth quarter drives to re-take the lead.
Adding to a frustrating day was this tweet before the game:
Seahawks plan to move on from Lynch after '14 season http://t.co/HAKlRxpxoT
— Around The NFL (@AroundTheNFL) November 16, 2014
Ian Rapoport continues to insist Seattle will move on from Marshawn Lynch in the off-season. Today was another day where you just have to ask, “Why?”
How can they not make this work for at least another year? Lynch was terrific again today. Even on a bounce-back day for Russell Wilson, he remains the key weapon on offense. His departure will create a huge avoidable hole that’ll need to be filled. Rapoport also continues to hint at big interest in Wisconsin running back Melvin Gordon. Spending a first round pick to replace your best offensive player when you have other big needs just seems, well, backwards.
Are the Seahawks even going to be in range for Gordon?
News: Todd Gurley has a torn ACL in his left knee and his season (and likely his college career) is over.
http://t.co/OEeuWa4uYw
— Seth Emerson (@SethEmerson) November 16, 2014
With Gurley out with an ACL, we can only guess where he’s going to go in the draft. Gordon’s stock might be on the rise after a record-breaking display yesterday (running for 408 yards) and Gurley’s agonizing injury.
More than anything Seattle has issues up front on defense. They lack depth and quality. They also badly need a big target for Russell Wilson. And yet there’s this idea that replacing Marshawn Lynch is actually going to be a thing.
Again, why?
Although it’s curious that Lynch didn’t head into the locker room at half time, choosing instead to stay outside in the cold. Pete Carroll was asked about it afterwards. Lynch, apparently, felt it was better to stay outside. Are we speculating too much to ponder whether there’s more to this?
There’s no way a team’s run defense should collapse in such a dramatic fashion minus one player. That happened today. Brandon Mebane is great — but his loss is emphasized by the lack of talent around him. Kevin Williams and Tony McDaniel, after a bright start to the season, just look decidedly average. Jordan Hill has never really got going in the pro’s. And beyond that…?
Kansas City didn’t have to work for their points today. It was Nebraska-esque (see: Gordon’s record breaking day yesterday).
A big part of it was a lack of quality and depth up front. It was also down to bad tackling and botched assignments. The linebackers struggled to read the Chiefs all day — Malcolm Smith appeared lost on several plays and ultimately out of position. K.J. Wright didn’t look comfortable after moving inside to replace the injured Brock Coyle (replacing the injured Bobby Wagner). Bruce Irvin didn’t have his usual ‘big play’ and also had a couple of key missed tackles.
Yet it’s much harder for a group of linebackers to make even basic plays when the defensive line is getting pushed around to the extent we saw today.
It was costly on a day Seattle’s offense moved the ball.
You couldn’t call it a flawless offensive performance, however. We touched on their inability to “finish”. At 24-20 in the red zone Seattle ran Lynch twice but also had two throws to Doug Baldwin including a fade on fourth down. It’s easy to say in hindsight, but a fade to a 5-10 receiver? It just didn’t play to the strengths of this team. It’s a low percentage play given the personnel on Seattle’s roster. And yet the big run up the middle on 4th and 1 moments later had ultimately the same result.
There were two big red zone plays that impacted the game. Jermaine Kearse also dropped a touchdown pass that would’ve given the Seahawks a 17-13 lead at half time. Seattle missed out on eleven points.
Justin Britt is struggling at right tackle. On one play today he failed to even lay a finger on Tamba Hali, who duly sacked Wilson on a 3rd and 8. The rest of the offensive line played well overall. You can forgive a few rookie errors, but Britt needs help on his side. Max Unger left the game with an ankle injury and could be done for the year. That would be a titanic blow.
Almost every week we hear about the impressive rookie class of wide receivers and the impact they’re having this season. Is it unfair to question why Seattle’s top pick in the 2014 draft — a receiver — is struggling to have an impact? They had to yank Paul Richardson off kick-returns early in this game. He isn’t providing a needed deep threat. Is he offering any different dynamic to the group?
It’s too early to write him off but after watching Jarvis Landry, Davante Adams, Martavis Bryant, Donte Moncrief and John Brown — all players drafted after Richardson — is it time to wonder if Seattle either a.) made a mistake or b.) just doesn’t know how to make the most of his skill set? The fact he’s even on kick-off’s looks a little bit like a team trying to force a role on a young player.
Receivers usually need time to settle into a new offense (see: Golden Tate). But the fact is — those other rookies are having an impact. Seattle’s not so loaded at the position that there’s any reason to hold him back.
Let’s not forget, they traded down twice all while targeting Richardson. Jordan Matthews went between 40-45 (after Seattle’s second trade down) and he too has managed to make an impact. Richardson has 72 yards and zero touchdowns with six games to play. It’s not the offense either. In comparison, Doug Baldwin had 788 yards as a rookie and four touchdowns.
The Seahawks look like a team that needs another receiver. And that’s frustrating after spending a second round pick this year, plus a first and third pick on the Harvin trade. It’s right up there with the needs on the defensive line. Why are they considering moving Marshawn Lynch again…?
i would bet that richardson in greenbay or even arizona would be having an impact. i think the common denominator is bevell’s route tree’s are basic and he doesn’t seems to use people to their strengths.
how else can you explain goldens tate’s breakout year outside of bevell’s offense. even if detroit throws the ball more tate is wide open on alot of his routes. as where here is seatttle most of his big plays were contested.
I don’t blame Bevell, because his route trees were good enough for Doug Baldwin to have an impact as a rookie — and they were good enough to make Russell Wilson spectacular as a rookie.
I think Tate’s breakout is obvious. He’s playing with a QB who throws for 5000 yards a year and Megatron has missed multiple weeks — making him the clear #1 target.
I’m more upset that with Carroll AND Snyder and there first three draft classes that our window closed so fast. I believe in turn a round and parody but after last season Seattle should have been building to a better window than 3 four and outs in Kansas city in the fourth quarter. Injuries personnel distractions whatever there is a building look of acceptable failure in the eyes of these Seahawks.
Not Good.
even if we miss the playoffs this year what makes you think our window is closed?the Patriots won the Superbowl in 2001 then missed in 2002 before following that up with winning the next two Super Bowls. Their window didn’t automatically close just because they lost out on the opportunity to win the Superbowl in the second year.
I will say that if Lynch does not return it will feel a bit like rebuilding because he has been such a key piece of this team’s identity during the Carroll era, but depending on the moves made it doesn’t mean the window will have closed.
I do question Bevell’s play calling. The talk of the town about Richardson was how he can fly and stretch the defense. In Russell’s rookie year, they took shots down field multiple times per game. Isn’t that Richardson’s specialty? To me, he seems predictable with his play calling and defenses have figured it out or we’re just not executing. Watching the offense struggle is painful. How can we be so out of sync? Why are receivers not making the plays this year as they have in the past? What seems to be so different with Russell’s accuracy from last year to this year? I also am not sure why we don’t seem to run slants or quick outs. It is rare we have those quick hitters anymore. If we incorporate that, perhaps we can sustain drives more and give the receivers to make a guy miss and explode for a big play. Sustaining drives is something we’ve been having troubles with this year and I think if they shorten up some routes, it could open up for us to take a shot down field more often. Haven’t seen Lockette down the sideline since the Denver game. I am impressed with the fight in this team though. They’re out of sync but they’ve had a chance on their last possession against San Diego, Dallas and Kansas City (plus the refs shafting us in St. Louis on that fumble) to make a drive for the go ahead score.
Well first off, defenses know we have no deep threat, that’s why our receivers are having such a hard time getting open, DBs jumping routes etc… Why I say no deep threat? Wilson does not have the time to throw a deep ball.
Petes motto of don’t turn the ball over is so engraved in Russell’s head he doesn’t even give his receivers a chance.. Just frustrating to watch.
Al least Luke Willson actually cought the ball today.
All I heard in training camp was how Richardson was catching these long throws. I don’t see any of that happening now we are doing real games now.
Tate’s “breakout” is all tied to targets. Currently he is tied for 6th in targets @ 95. So far he’s at 68 catches 950 yards 3td. If you look at his 2013 numbers, he was at 96 targets for 65 catches and 759 yards and 5 tds. He’s the same guy except he’s getting the targets that he would never get in Seattle.
i thought that the oline before unger got hurt had their best all around performance of the year. wilson made some key passes. i would have to say that mebane might have been the most important player on defense after this performance.
If they have any say in the matter, the Seahawks surely can not afford to lose Lynch. Watching this game today made it clear that there are big holes at receiver and DT. These need to be the positions addressed early in the draft, surely. Why add another gaping hole to the mix, especially as it is the team’s single strongest position at present. It seems equally clear that Lynch’s successor isn’t currently on the roster.
the loss of Mebane was glaring today. With him and Unger out again and the o line as bad as it is, the Hawks are done for this year. They will be lucky if they can win there three home games that are left. So much for the ” win the turnover battle,win the game” rule. The hawks won every stat today, but when your free safety is making the most tackles in the game, that says it all. The Seahawks are going to have a tough time deciding how much to pay Wilson , given his limitations that have been exosed this year.
I think Mebane was always going to be a miss — but the biggest issue isn’t so much his absence. Him not being out there today merely highlighted how bad the rest of the D-line is. It’s a really average bunch that got dominated today.
I agree that we can’t afford to lose Lynch. Also shifting to say our biggest need is a good defensive tackle, followed by large WR or TE. Wilson needs help. Overall the game was deflating – KC just looked better then the Seahawks.
Singling out Britt seems to be a little knee-jerk. Sweezy got BEASTED repeatedly today, and is routinely awful in pass pro. Poe, Jaye Howe, and Allen Bailey made play after play against our run and our pass right over Sweezy. He runs like a deer but gets pushed back easily. Britt certainly whiffed on the play you mentioned with Hali, but mostly his guy didn’t do much — and his guy was Justin Houston.
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I think with Paul Richardson they just didn’t plan on him seeing much of the field this season. I don’t think much time in training camp thinking about how to play to his strengths. Now they’re trying to do it on the fly with minimal pass attempts.
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On the defensive line, sometimes you just have a buzzard’s luck. Seattle added real depth, and then lost much of it, some prior to the start of the season. D’Anthony Smith and Greg Scruggs were expected to contribute. Scruggs came back and was playing well before getting hurt again. Cassius Marsh was also contributing. The plan was to play Kevin Williams as a big 3T and some 5T.
Add to that, Bobby Wagner was playing at an all-Pro level and Heath Farwell is a quality LB and special teams stalwart.
This is one of the staff’s best jobs but the defense is just along for the ride at this point. The offense will determine what this team becomes.
I saw one bad play by Sweezy (will need to watch back). But he’s been excellent the whole year overall. Britt has struggled for a few weeks now. That’s why I mentioned it — he needs help.
I really wonder why we drafted P-Rich without any attempt at a vertical passing game. Wasted pick if this continues, but I assume they will adjust…like, next year.
I agree with you – but is part of the problem that Russell doesn’t have time to wait for PRich to run deep because the rush is coming? Many parts of the problem
I think PRich would be best used like TY Hilton – slants/slot, but Russel Wilson seems unable to throw slants due to his height issues….you can’t convince me that his height doesn’t hinder his use of the entire field.
So true. He either needs to be way deep in a clean pocket, or rolling out. A clean pocket shouldn’t be to much to ask for either, hopefully we will get there eventually. I think we will have to finish 11-5 to make the playoffs based on how well the others have been playing.
Rob, do you see the Hawks struggles impacting RW’s pay day in the offseason? Are they still going to pay him $20M+?
Yes they will still pay him because he’s a terrific playmaking quarterback and it would be beyond ridiculous not to re-sign him. Top QB’s don’t grow on trees. Seattle’s found the rarest of things — a third round franchise quarterback. And he deserves to be paid with the best in the league. But they have to give him better weapons.
Do you really think RW will accept 20mil when Dalton got 100mil ?
20mil refers to per year, not the “total”
$20m per year.
As I stated before, the idea of us letting Lynch walk and giving Wilson $20 million a year is absolutely ludicrous. Does anyone with eyes and a brain see a $20 million guy back there? Weapons or no weapons. Bevell apologists can all just hush, because it has been painfully obvious that he does not have the capability to scheme our offense for the current personnel nor to the strengths of the players we are putting out there. I don’t want to hear anymore about how he helped us win a Super Bowl, because the more Seahawks football I watch the more I realize that last year was a dream season and is incapable of being duplicated. We will not make the playoffs which is sad, because we are tight in every game. We have had TWO consecutive dreadful drafts that have yielded no depth nor adequate replacements for players that have been lost in free agency. If this FO lets Lynch walk, it is time to pull that card on them: you all nailed two drafts in 2010 and 2012 but have bombed the other three. If we keep Lynch, pay Wilson what he is truly worth ($14-16 million) and really address the dearth of talent we have at WR and bolster the DL depth we will be in a world of hurt. Lynch is not the problem. Wilson is the answer. Huge whiffs on Michael and Richardson when there were other impact players to be had have set us behind the 8 ball. This season looks bleak, it might be time to start looking at the draft. Which really sucks. We are just really close again, no where near elite
I’d have no problem paying Wilson that kind of money. He’s a franchise quarterback and that’s the going rate. If you offer him $14-16m you’ll be paying even more when he rejects it and you have to franchise him. Or you could let him walk and then what? Go after the next version of Tarvaris Jackson or Matt Flynn? Or Charlie Whitehurst? Or hope to be so painfully bad you earn the #1 pick and maybe there’s a QB worthy of the pick?
As for Bevell, let’s not go down this road again. The offense moved the ball all day. Kearse drops a pass in the red zone — big four points lost there. Yeah the 4th and 1 fade call was bizarre, but they had three conventional plays before that and couldn’t execute either. Neither did they execute on a 4th and 1 run up the gut with Lynch — the call everyone would’ve made in that situation.
Rob the offense moved the ball because KC’s DL was as overmatched as ours were. Lynch is an indominable force and imposes his will on people. That wasn’t really scheme driven, and if it was- then credit should be given to Cable but as I understand, he is the boss of the running attack. No to counterpoint your defense of Bevell, before the fade instead of 3 conventional plays, how about we church it up and play to our strengths. Wilson is super mobile and our receivers are quick and shifty. Get some movement in the back of the end zone and get a favorable matchup where we can expose a mismatch. It isn’t rocket science. All I have to say on paying Wilson $20 million is ask the Bears, the Bengals, and the Ravens how they feel about their $20+ million investments. I would wager that while he may be flashy and occasionally show signs that he is elite, most of the time is remarkably average, and doesn’t make the other players around him better. He can mask a dreadfully poor pass blocking oline but cannot take a pedestrian group of WR and make them world beaters a la Brady and Brees. Those are your $20 million dollar guys. Although maybe the QB salaries in the NFL have just changed for the ridiculous and there is no going back
I thought the passing game was good today — especially given the lack of brilliant weapons. Again, if Kearse doesn’t drop that red zone pass it’s 17-14 at the half and who knows what happens.
And are we really comparing Wilson to Jay cutler, Andy Dalton and Joe Flacco?
C’mon man.
You have to pay the going rate. I’d rather pay $20m to Wilson than have to deal with a search for a replacement. I think it’s pretty obvious which will be more costly. And this will ultimately prove to be a good time to sign a QB to a long term extension. The cap is going to keep rising the next two years. So will the price of the going rate. In about three years Wilson’s deal will probably look like fantastic value.
I wasn’t comparing Wilson to those QBs, because they are vastly different players. But look at the deals. The BAD deals that have hampered those teams ability to sign impact free agents or resign their core contributors to maintain a level of superior play. You have to admit Rob, the Harvin deal was an awful awful deal. Baddest of the bad deal of the last two seasons. And it cost dearly. What I am saying we absolutely CAN NOT afford to give Wilson a “bad deal” and further hamstring our franchise for the long term. I hope we give him a deal, just more along the lines of a “good deal” that will allow us some freedom to improve aside from finding impact players and replacements via the draft
Wilson is not getting a “good deal.” People need to stop with all that. Or write Cutler hate mail for jacking up the price of marginal talent. With a cursory glance of their career stats Cutler has never been as productive as WiIson ( let’s cut the nonsense about yards a game/season and go ask Peyton Manning,Brees, and Stafford how all those yards got them rings….plural…they don’t.)
Productivity to me, is games won vs. games lost. And more fundamentally to a QB Td’s vs. Int’s.
Perhaps Wilson will do a deal like Kaepernick that looks huge but can be broken into manageable pieces. That would be ideal. But he has a ring, and Kaep and Dalton do not. And it’s getting to be a long, long time ago that Brees or Brady got rings. Also and finally for everyone on the good for the deal deal bandwagon…The team already got that deal in his rookie contract paying him sub a million a year to go win a superbowl, sure he had an amazing defense and Marshawn Lynch, but the niners had all those things with their three trips to the NFC Champ game and they never came away with the Lombardi.
There is an article about Onerous Contracts on espn’s nfl site that you need to read. You would see what I even mean by a good deal and what the true definition of a “bad deal” is. It isn’t just dollars per year. Read it. If you read my other posts you would see my insight about Wilson in comparison to other quarterbacks (there IS no comparison) but more keeping our freedom to sign and resign impact players- NOT about going cheap on our QB.
I personally don’t think Wilson is a 20 million dollar player either. Hopefully, they hold fast to more of a Kaepernick kind of deal. But in the end, I fear he will get the 20 million dollar/year deal and we will regret it.
Seattle is caught between a rock and a hard place with RW.
I agree totally. As much as I admire Wilson, I have to be realistic. He has limitations because of his height. That has been exposed this year. Ittakes a while for defensive coaches to figure out opposing qbs. I hope he proves me wrong but I believe last year will be the best year he will ever have.
Wilson completion % in 2012: 63.1
Wilson completion % in 2013: 62.5
He’s on pace for the same number of picks and total TD’s. He’s already run for 500 yards — just 39 short of last year.
Statistically he’s right on cue and that’s without Golden Tate. That’s with Zach Miller missing through injury. That’s without Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin who started the year on the roster. I’d say he’s doing well all things considered.
He’s a VERY good qb. I won’t debate that. I love the kid. But is he 20 million dollar per year good? That, I think is debatable.
In any event, I’m as certain as anyone that they will pay him that 20-25 million/year contract. We’ll have to get used to it.
Cap is going up. Contracts are going up. Andy Dalton got 16 million APY. Alex Smith (Cpt Check Down) got 17 million APY. Cap is going up to 144 million or so (almost 10% increase). If we can sign Russ for 20 million APY we jump up and down with joy.
I’d be relieved because we’d have a qb under contract for a length of years, but I’d never jump up and down with joy over one player getting 20 million. In my mind, the only players who come closest are Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and to some extent, Brees. The usual suspects. But they have offenses built around their skillset, and seattle will remain rb centric first.
The 20 million, which I’m sure he’ll get, will be tough to swallow.
And I’d still never pay a single player 20 + million a year. Never never. But I’m not Seattle’s gm.
You’ll never ever keep a franchise QB beyond his initial rookie contract then.
I’m ok with that. I just wouldn’t do it. Depth and hungry players is more realistic than one guy being paid. I’d move on if they want that. But I think you can counter it with better guaranteed money as well.
It’s not a question of not paying your franchise QB 20M. The question is: what’s the alternative? It’s the going rate for a very good to great QB. There is no other alternative. One good thing is the cap increased by 10M+ in 2014 and is expected to rise by 10M+ each in 2015 and 2016. That’s beneficial to the seahawks when they need to sign their franchise QB.
Again – why are we debating the QB money? He will get what the market rate is.
The harvin thing really screwed up the hawks this year in so many ways: 1) Because of Harvin and his contract, we had to let Golden Tate go, 2) Because of Harvin, our offense became obsessed to keep him “happy” – and that broke down our rhythm, 3) Because of the Harvin trade, it opened up a lot of questions about issues in the locker room, 4) and Because we had to trade him, we have two rookie receivers having to play significant snaps.
The Defense is NOT the same – nobody expected it to be the same after key departures. But, the offense taking a bigger jump was supposed to ease the pressure on the D. Once Harvin was gone, our biggest playmaker (at WR position) was gone and that screwed up the entire offense. No Tate, no Rice – would have been fine if Harvin was here. But, with all three gone??? C’mon, do you really expect much? Be real.
I don’t expect to pay anyone ever 20+ million that’s not a rate that’s insane. I bet your job has risks and no one pays you that much. Please it’s a GAME not a right to pay that much to anyone guy on your team. Sorry JJ ,Payton, Bryant, Wilson, Peterson. None of you can guarantee your health throughout the contract depth is more important. I’m not saying don’t pay anyone anything. Just not that much period.
Again do you really think W will take 20mil when Dalton got 100 mil?
$20m per year.
I screwed this one up. I should’ve written Wilson is NOT the answer. Changes the context of the whole rant…
If Wilson isn’t the answer — what exactly do you propose?
You do realize more than half the league would LOVE to have RW as their quarterback?
Rob I will agree that he is better than many, I wouldn’t say he is better than most. The point I am trying to make is not that we dump Wilson like a hot potato, he fits our offense. What I was trying to say is I would strongly disagree with them letting Lynch go in favor of making Wilson the center focal point of our offensive attack. I think that would be a sizable error in judgment
I don’t think the two are necessarily linked. They can afford to pay Wilson and keep Lynch. I think, based on the reports by Mortensen/Rapoport, that there is an issue between the front office and Lynch. And that’s why they’ll ultimately move on. But that would be a frustrating move given his importance to the team. Surely they have to find a way to make it work?
They have to, because as you have said and I think many of us have seen- Lynch is the man and there are no replacements out there. I would go as far as to equate his loss to replacing Barry Sanders. You can’t. He is a one-off. I want them to keep both players, but I think that we need to afford ourselves the freedom to pursue talent with a little more fervor. Justin Houston getting a payday from the Hawks wouldn’t make me frown, but we have to be smart with our cap. This season may not be our return to glory, but we are right there in every game. We are still closer to being elite than anyone gives us credit.
This conversation is crazy to me about Wilson’s limitations. I have a better idea then getting him a a deal in line with being a superbowl winning QB, let’s just let him walk and/or pull a Chargers with Brees and then watch him become an elite QB that we all wish he would be.
Sorry for the snarky tone, but I’ve watched the over throws, I’ve watched the scrambling and my big takeaway from these last few weeks, including last week when WIlson dropped the game, is where the hell is the defense?
A defense built on late picks with something to prove, is now down a third round aging, great DT, a MLB, a basically cast off before arriving here now doing nothing of note DE in Clemons, and Big Red. Maybe if we stopped giving up 24 points a game this conversation runs differently.
If we lock up $20+ million into one contract, with the number going up every year a la Cutler/Flacco deals, does that help us bring in/resign players to help bolster the defense? This has never been about Wilson not being any good. It is about him not being able to week in and week out take whoever is playing around him and put them on his back and carry the whole show- the kind of thing you pay $20+ million to have somebody do. This is about not getting ourselves into to deep fiscal trouble because we were slaves to a SB season. Flacco parleyed that into the worst contract in NFL history- look up how impossible it will be to cut him, even worse to pay him. Basically Baltimore has to extend him into his late 30’s and spread those numbers out over the years and it preserves Flacco’s job, regardless of his worth. I just don’t want Seattle tied to a player with a horrible deal like that.
Exactly. I for one think RW is a good qb. But you just can’t get into a contract where you can’t cut ties from that player. They have to avoid the Flacco scenario and aim for the Kaepernick contract scenario.
$20m is the going rate. People need to remember how hard it is to find a QB.
What do you propose when wilson says no to a kaepernick type deal? Do you have a real solution? Of course no team WANTS to pay ANYBODY that kinda money. Baltimore didn’t want to pay Flacco either. But, what was the alternative?
The hardest thing in Pro Football is finding a QB. We have done that. And now you just want to let him walk?
People said last years that Seattle’s WRs were average – that was with Tate and Rice (half season). Last year we had Zach Miller even. Any coindicence that wilson’s numbers have been down since the harvin trade? The linebackers and DBs don’t have to play deep anymore and because of that the space is crunched. Wilson is doing the best he can with these WRs and TEs.
Of course he will say “no.” That’s what negotiations are for. In the end, they will probably work out something where he gets more than Kaepernick and the team is protected from a full Flacco deal.
I’m a big fan of Lynch, but he doesn’t represent the future of the Seahawks. He’s an aging running back who seemingly is playing through lots of mysterious injuries. I hope we can keep him for another year, but who knows? The only certainty is that someday soon, his fantastic skilld are not going to be available to the Seahawks. I don’t think that he will be easy to replace — I’ve never seen another RB run with the attitude he has when he carries the ball. When he goes, our offense will have to change or we will be resigning ourselves to mediocrity.
So, instead of drafting a replacement for Lynch, I’d much rather look for more weapons for RW. Last year, I was a big fan of Mike Evans, primarily because of the way that he was able to fit his game to the way Manziel played in the A&M offense. When Manziel scrambled and extended plays, it seemed like Evans was always there for him. To some extent, I think Golden Tate played this role for RW. So, who is this year’s Mike Evans? Who can extemporaneously alter their routes to match RW’s scrambling? While RW may develop some as a pocket passer, I think his real value lies in his improvising and his ability to extend plays. So, I don’t think a good “route runner” will bring us the same value as a Mike Evans clone will.
Wilson was very good today. Not sure how anyone can question him.
yeah. Wilson isn’t the problem here. They have no weapons on the edge, and very poor pass blocking. Doug Baldwin, as nifty of a player he is, simply cannot be your main (sole) receiving threat that a defense has to concern itself with, on a team with championship ambitions.
Spot on!!!!
I agree that pass protection has been an issue with the OL. But, I think that providing protection for a QB who scrambles and extends plays presents a whole new set of challenges to his OL. For example, the regular tactic for the tackles to push rushing DEs or LBs to the outside can sometimes backfire if the QB is scrambling to the outside. There have been some instances this season where Britt or Okung have actually redirected rushers right at RW. I think that we are going to have to live with some sacks as long as we have RW at QB. It’s a risk/reward calculation that I’m willing to accept.
yes, on a handful of plays that happens. But by virtually every metric out there, this is a bad pass blocking O line, something that Cable’s lines historically share. They value run blocking far more than pass blocking. This can’t be ignored or sloughed off as an outcome of a scrambling QB.
Radman — Phil is correct. And the other thing is they’ve actively drafted run blockers. They don’t even hide what they want from an OL and this is it.
yes, that is my point, they want run blockers, not pass blockers. We’re saying the same thing.
and for every sack we can say Russell “runs into” we have to acknowledge he “runs out of” at least one other. It balances out. But what doesn’t change is this is a bad pass blocking O line, because they don’t care about it as much.
a few thoughts on the game and the article . Injuries aren’t an excuse but they are a factor. Haveing Mebane out only amplifies the loss of Bobby Wags. The reason this defence was so dominating last year is because they had great athletes in the right spots. They have to many guys playing out of position rt now and it shows. A healthy BW and that stat line of Charles looks different in my opinion. Secondly this team doesn’t need a “big ” WR as much as it needs a “good” wr. Small WRs are thriving in the NFL this year, good ones, that is. ADB and ChopChop were free agents for a reason. They are nice complimentary pcs but NOT front line players. Paul Richardson was a miss, clearly. But the main thing that seems to be missing from this team this year is apperently team chemistry. Harvin was a cancer, he needed to go and do we know for certain that Marshawn isn’t the same? Images of him flipping of the coaches last year linger. They were excepted because winning solves a lot of problems but it shows an alarming lack of organizational control, somthing PC has been accused of in the past. A fractured team can not thrive. I fear that there is a lot more going on in that locker room then we are being allowed to know. Healthy, this team is still a load but they are clearly not the cohesive machine we saw last year. It’s not all about talent but I fear about attitude as well.
Excellent thoughts here Rob. I’m not what you would call a big film watcher, but from my eyes it appears that Paul Richardson is running a lot of sideline routes, intermediate curls, etc. I think his true talent would be best utilized using the deep middle portion of the field. As constructed, this offense is not designed to attack that part on a regular basis. Too risky (or so the perception seems to be). Plus there is no terrific big WR or good pass catching TE working the short middle of the field to create dilemmas for the deep safeties.
If you think about the previous 2 seasons with Russ and the deep passing game, it was predicated on the contested red-line catch. Golden Tate made his money on these throws. Sidney Rice had the frame to win on these throws. They were both also excellent at the catch point, and always gave Russ at least a solid chance. I don’t see this capability with Richardson. His game has to be based on separation. In order to utilize his talents down the field Russ is going to have to be better with the anticipation throws. Is he this type of QB? I’m not sure.
As for Lynch – these guys, Ian Rappaport and Chris Mortenson are pretty respected. I think we’ll find fire where this smoke is coming from. Thing is, this is a deep RB class. I believe John and Pete believe they can get a difference maker in the 2nd round, which is where I think the sweet spot will be once again. A guy like Tevin Coleman (Indiana) could be a possibility here.
I think we have to target a WR with our 1st, unless we can somehow land a big free agent (Dez, Deymarious, etc).
I could see us drafting a WR in round 1 (like a Kevin White?) and RB in round 2. We will still have like 4 or 5 picks between rounds 3 and 4 to address other needs.
We should attack FA to help with the defensive line. It’s a formula (the only formula) that has worked for us. Guys like Henry Melton and Darnell Dockett could be available.
I think Pete is more worried about this defense than anything.
Another player who could be available? Larry Fitzgerald. He has a cap number of 23 million in 2015, and the Cards will be over the cap unless they make some cuts.
Now that I would like to see.
Great points on the red line WR. Now that you mention it — they’ve really gone away from that. We’re not seeing many deep shots and contested passes either. The passing game has become a lot more intricate this year, possibly due to the loss of Tate/Rice and the size of the group. I think they know they need some bigger bodies to revert back. It’s just a shame this isn’t a great draft for big receivers or tight ends.
Tevin Coleman I really like. There’s a few RB’s I like. But the thing is — it’s so hard to imagine any of them having even 50% of Lynch’s impact. He is the heart and soul of the offense. How can they just walk away from that?
The loss of Mebane looked clearly to me like the straw that has broken the camel’s back. Barring a collapse by teams ahead of us, we’re really in scramble mode. I think SF has responded much better to their injury situation and actually sit well to battle for the division. Their defense looks as physical and vicious as ever while ours looks confused, unmotivated, and lacking in front seven talent.
This team needs more than one offseason to get back to super bowl caliber level, and I believe they will need one more spectacular draft where they hit in virtually every round to do so. This will be a huge challenge with so many players locked into long term deals and one more coming to Russell Wilson.
If it is true they are determined to move on from Lynch, I can only say bad on them, and it sounds like they are putting themselves ahead of the team. Yes, I said that.
And lastly, they need how to learn how to draft first/second rounders. End of story. The returns are in. The cute picks have cost them. Their cleverness has caught up to JS and PC. It’s time for them on draft day to return to conventional wisdom and stop with the questionable picks.
Eerily, they seem to be following the path of so many previous super bowl winners over the past decade where a decline sets in and problems crop up everywhere. And typically, they plug holes, fill in gaps, even sign an aging star or two…and yet can’t seem to get back to the dominance that once was.
Looking at the schedule an away game against an afc opponent was probably the most affordable to lose. But it still makes the next 6 games all the more important and it won’t be easy but all of them are winnable. After today if the Packers/Eagles score holds, the Seahawks will be the only team to not loose by double digits.For as good as the Broncos, Patritos, or Packers have looked they have each had embarrassing losses. And that tells me the Seahawks are sure not going down without a fight. The offense just needs to find a way to get TD’s when they get in the redzone. Hopefully getting Bobby back could stabilize the run defense, so its at least not as bad as it was today.
Next week is a must win. Then it’s a tough one to go, on a short week, to San Francisco. I think it’s safe to say those two games will decide whether this team has any shot at the post-season.
I agree the next two games are definitely must win. For a team that emphasizes finishing, its something they have been really inconsistent with. Well now more then ever they need to start finishing. The chiefs have a good defense so it was encouraging to see the offense move the ball. Do you think there is an answer for the d-line? Could they scheme it differently or are the lineman just gonna have to play better?
They have to play better. They might be able to tweak the scheme slightly. But ultimately they have to play better. I just wonder if they’re good enough to step up against some tough opponents.
I wouldn’t put too much into the run defense collapsing today because of Mebane not being there. Yes – it was bad. But, all things came together: 1) This was probably the worst team as your first team to not have Mebane, 2) No wagner either (should come back soon), 3) 19 deg weather isn’t the best day to make tackles on physical runners – they couldn’t stop our running game either.
Of course, without mebane our run D in general is worse. But, it’s not like I expect people to start running for 200 yards a game. And remember, WITH mebane and WITH bryant, we gave up back to back 200 rushing yards to St. Louis and Tampa Bay last year.
I hope you’re right Amar, but I fear for our run defense going forward against the teams next up on the schedule.
The only worry is SF. They have the Power-O running game. Arizona and Eagles are more of a outside running team where you don’t necessarily need big DTs to stop the run but speedy linebackers.
We had so many missed tackles today and I’d have to believe a lot of that had to do with the cold. Of course, I expect the Run D to get worse WITHOUT Mebane. But, not 180-200 yards EVERY game worse. Maybe an avg of 110-120 (instead of our usual 80).
I think the Niners game will end up very similar to this one. We’ll need to outscore them because I suspect they’ll move the ball. Gore probably doesn’t get 160 yards, but he might get 100 with Kaepernick chipping in with 60-70. Got to beat Arizona first otherwise that San Fran game might end up being a battle to stay alive. Let’s also not underestimate this being San Fran’s first opportunity to play Seattle since the NFC West title game.
Even if they do get into the post season as wild card, everything will go through Green Bay. I dont believe the Hawks have ever won a Playoff game in Green Bay in January.
Personally I think Arizona will be the #1 seed. Either way I find it hard to imagine this injury-riddled Seahawks outfit winning on the road in the playoffs. They’d need to get healthy and for the defense to get hot. Getting to the post season right now will be a chore alone.
Arizona’s been playing good defense and they are a really well coached team. But any team that looses their starting QB is no sure bet for the #1 seed, especially with Seattle twice, 49ers, chiefs, and rams on the schedule as well as 4 or 6 remaining on the road. But 6 games is a lot of time left in the NFL when things change every week. So who knows what could happen? As you already said getting to the post season will be tough so that should be the primary focus. I saw someone point out that the next QB’s the Hawks play are Stanton twice, Kapernick twice, Sanchez, and Shaun Hill. All of them capable of turning the ball over. I’ve seen the Hawks D swagger show up at times this season. So maybe the defense getting hot isn’t out of the question. D-line is still the primary concern though.
Bevell is a problem. The playcalling is elementary. Inside the 5, you know which way they run in the shotgun. Go I and let Lynch follow our 290lb fullback. It’s not rocket science, but Bevell is playing a game of chess thinking it’s checkers.
And what about the plays that worked today? This is the issue I have with the constant complaining over Bevell. It’s always one sided.
But Rob, when push comes to shove and we need a first down or touchdown, it only happens if Wilson scrambles and makes a play. Our red zone playcalling is horrible. In the shotgun, every play is either hand to Lynch across the line or Wilson holds it. How about a toss to his side or quick draw to the same side. Bevell does not make defenses think. Wilson can because he makes plays with his legs. Take some shots downfield, mix up formations, run play action off of running plays that work. Make a defense defend the entire field and make them guess on what you do. Bevell does not do that, and to me it’s about time he moves on.
It’s easy to say with hindsight we should’ve done X, Y or Z. Our red zone stuff last week was very good. I think it’s a bit OTT to say Bevell doesn’t make defenses think. Kansas City did plenty of thinking today.
People spend too much time on Bevell. It’s an easy fan target because you can point at bad plays and then look for someone to blame. Of course — the guy calling the plays. Bevell has been very good to the Seahawks and continues to be very good. He isn’t perfect, but then which OC is?
Agree to disagree. Big month. We basically have to sweep the remainder of our division games. If not, we won’t even make the playoffs and it will be a lot of draft talk (which I love and love this site, but would rather go into in February).
They need a big red zone target. Plain and simple. The receiver at OK when they have space to work with but when it’s tight like that they just don’t cut it. The Harvin trade cost us a chance at a repeat so hopefully they can do well in reloading for next year. Would love to eat crow on this but doubt I will.
For whatever reason, I think the Seahawks have become too predictable this year on crucial short-yardage plays. I can’t really blame Bevell because I assume he was the one who decided to throw deep last year on fourth and short against the 49ers when RW hit Kearse for the game winner.
In yesterday’s game on the last drive, I was hoping that RW would fake it to Lynch, then bootleg with an option to run or throw it to Willson or Helfet on a crossing route. This is the one route that always seems open.
4th and goal with seven minutes left. Down by four and you don’t take the FG… absolutely ridiculous! Good Ol’ Petey going hormonal again…
I don’t see that as being a bad play. The bad call was the fade route to Baldwin.
The outcome was a quick 3 and out for KC, punting from the back of their end zone. Seattle got the ball back with a shot to win the game.
Had they kicked the field goal, it probably wouldn’t have made a difference. You’d still be down and KC would have the ball at their 20+ with lots of room to operate. Given how easily they were moving the ball all day, I have no problem with going for it on 4th and goal for the lead. What I have a problem with is throwing a fade to a 5’10 receiver into the sun. Now THAT is bad play calling.
They play call only added to it IMO. Arrowhead is an extremely hard place to win as we all know. If they take the points, I’m pretty confident Housemoney would’ve made it, then you’re only down 1 and a FG wins it. After the loss of Unger the ground game went down so you have to take points when they’re available… keep the scoreboard ticking over and the pressure on the Chefs. It changes what you call and how KC would play defense. It’s all moot now though… they need a big RZ target…
The only reason I could see the Seahawks moving on from Lynch is if they believe they can land a top-flight defensive line player like Suh or a top WR like Bryant. IMO that’s the only way you make up for the talent loss of Lynch. That just seems like a long shot to me.
As for Bevel, the only issue I had with him today was the questionable calls on 4th down. Fade route to Baldwin in the endzone? Really? what are the odds that would work. Run Lynch up the gut begind a 4th string center when the entire KC defense is protecting the box? Come on.
For as much as I love our front office, at this point I’d have to say they’ve pretty much whiffed in the draft the last two years. This coming off season is going to be a real make or break. This team needs to start hitting again in the draft and needs to prove they can draft skill players.
I wonder if Carroll had any input on that 4th and 1 Lynch run. Maybe had a word in Bevell’s ear after the fade call on the previous 4th down. For me I’m surprised they didn’t have Wilson on the bootleg on that second fourth down — let him scramble with a pass option. He’s adept at scrambling for conversions like that.
That’s exactly what I saying about scheming to our skill sets earlier Rob. We can’t paint stripes on ourselves and call it the Seattle Zebras. We are what we are. Just be the best at being that.
exactly what I was hoping for too. play action lynch up the gut, roll wilson out to the right with a TE. keep or pass. Hard to imagine that not picking up 2 yards. Both those 4th down plays were really low percentage plays.
Other than those, I thought the offensive play calling was fine.
They’ve drafted poorly the last few years. Eventually that will destroy your depth and ability to withstand injuries to your key guys.
Bottom line: They’ve got to draft better. Stop being so damn cute with your draft picks. Christine Michael anyone?
Looking at the 2013 draft overall, there was NOT much there- but woof we BOMBED… We could’ve taken Eddie Lacy, Jordan Reed, or Keenan Allen just to name a few instead of Michael and Jordan Hill. I don’t think there were ANY winners from that draft but have ZERO contributors from what should be the meat of our depth in their second year
The mistake of that draft was not having a #1. The Percy debacle was expensive.
I personally wanted DeAndre Hopkins, but hindsight is hindsight. SEA has CLEARLY won the mid/late-rd steals. We need an IMPACT 1st rd pick in ’15
Yup, cost us two potential starters…
The Michael pick at the time was a decent punt on an player with massive potential. The wider problem for me is — they missed badly on the Harvin trade costing them other players (a first rounder + potentially keeping Tate), they didn’t hit in the mid/late rounds in 2013 and now in 2014 they manufactured a situation to get Richardson in round two after trading down twice (a non impact player) and then had to take the best remaining tackle at the bottom of round two, even if it was a reach. It made far more sense to let a deep receiver class come to you at the end of round two and just take Joel Bitonio at the end of round one.
Coincidentally Bitonio has become the best overall Rookie in the NFL. Logan Mankins II could not have described him better. Perrenial solid contributor, tone setter and I’d wager frequent Pro Bowler
Rob, look at how many players KC had from our roster that balled out. Howard was stout. Still praying for 6 in a row.
Wish list for next year:
No Bevell
Trade Unger and Okung (can’t stay on field and costly)
Cut ties with Miller
Don’t overpay Lynch, but keep if can
Get 2 DT (Fairley Suh Melton etc…)
Make a pick in 1st round and stop being cute
“trade unger and okung?” are you serious.
Come on man. what do you have against okung and unger? You really think you could replace them with better talent? They’ve been hit by the injury bug this year, but when they’re out there, this team can run on pretty much anyone. Why mess with that?
I would put the play of any player in against Unger and say other than scheme knowledge and line calls permitted there isn’t much difference. I like Unger but can see a change a coming.
Yes. They are talented but injury proned for us. Send the talent and let them worry about their injuries. Additional 2nd and 3rd would be nice. Heck, I would even say trade Lynch to Oakland. If that gets us another 2nd.
We need OL and DL.
Also, let’s move Irvin to Leo. Too much speed and athleticism. Wright/Pierre/Smith (until Wagner back).
For me you can add Carpenter to the list. I amsick of these guys not being able to stay on the field. They need to take a page out of the walter Jones conditioning book nd start pusshing their car around in the off season. Jones figured ( and rightfully so ) if he could push a 3500 lb car around for a while he could certainly push a 300 lb lineman. He built his core stregnth doing that and he was rarely injured. The conditioning coach for the Hawks should be replaced, I dont believe you can build PUSH core strength simplly by lifting weights.
Totally forgot about Carp. 100% agree. Kind of tired of Cable and how Pete relies on him making lemonade.
Well, all they seem to draft on the OL is lemons for the most part… 🙂
I like the idea of not being cute in the first round and keeping Lynch — not a big fan of the first three though Ed.
The funny thing is, we are 6-4 and everyone thinks it’s over and yet Green Bay is only 7-3 and everyone has them winning the superbowl. They are hot, I give you that. But if the D can get their swagger back, we can win our next 6. Arizona really is living on their D and have gotten a little lucky. SF hasn’t gotten a lot of help too (NO win, really). Philadelphia can be had with Sanchez and then St Louis.
11-5 should have us hosting a game.
Go Hawks
I think it’s because Green Bay are winning at home scoring 40-50 points each time and this is their remaining schedule: Minnesota (A), New England (H), Atlanta (H), Buffalo (A), Tampa Bay (A), Detroit (H). They could win out.
Settle’s remaining schedule in comparison is beastly. Arizona (H), San Fran (A) on a short week, Philly (A), San Fran (H), Arizona (A), St. Louis (H).
Oh, I know. But one game off and Pete just needs to lock it up. Every game we have had the opportunity to win. Pete’s coaching could have won yesterday. 3 and 18 stop could have won Dallas game. Bad special team play could have won St Louis.
We have a lot of problems, but we are in it. If we can beat a very lucky Arizona at home and hit or miss SF and Philly, we are back in it.
Does anyone think that Gurley will go in the first 2 rounds now? NFL draft picks are coveted. His injury is so late in the season you have to figure he won’t be healed in time for the draft, so how much draft capital would you risk on him?
I’d take a 3rd round flyer at best.
Probably not first, but someone will take flier in the 2nd IMO. too good of a talent to fall too far
Big big risk though. You probably won’t be able to work him out for the draft. He’ll still be recovering, and if it’s a career ender, you’re hosed.
His floor is round two even with the injury.
Where do I start. RW may just become the leading rusher on this team and that is nice he can get out of a jam and make a positive. The problem there is how often he has to do it and that speaks badly about the OL pass protection. The WR core is a mess with letting Tate go and Harvin becoming a problem. I said before all I heard was how Richardson was catching 70 yard TD passes in training camp but that has yet to materialize in actual games that count. The biggest problem with the DL is they have not found a true LEO like Clemens and the interior has gotten old. For me this team feels like the 2006 team after our first superbowl. They have some good players but in the aftermath after the big game this team lost players that matter (Clemons, Tate, and Breno) and they put there faith in player that really didn’t matter (Harvin and he was worth at least 2 players with draft picks we gave up). This year it feels like we will fall into that superbowl fade like the Saints, Packers, and the Giants before us.
This is exactly my fear as well. We thought we would be the exception going into the season, because of the relative age of our sb winning team. Then reality hit.
We now hope that they can find the talent to bring it back to the level of absorbing injury, etc and get us back to the sb. But the drafting in the early rounds and the past few years in all the rounds really leaves a lot to be desired.
The rest of the NFL has seemed to have caught up with the genius of PC and JS.
I think the misses in the draft the last couple years have something to do with the fact we where in a total state of rebuild before and could just look for the best talent regardless of position. Jesse Williams hurts about now, but he was a first round talent and a good shot. In what is already making a case for being the best Wr class in history to miss there with two picks is death. We have developed a habit of reaching for Seahawk type guys instead of taking the sure bet Blue chips. I love going for sparq freaks and seeing who you can coach up but you cant whiff two whole drafts. Lynch is old, and like it or not his best days are behind him. A couple great games don’t take away the amount of tread on those tires. Gurley isn’t making it to the hawks pick and the front office cant go Wr next year without admitting a huge gaff. Dt seems like it has to be where our first pick will be spent. Get ready for Turbin/ Michaels committee.
Watching Marshawn run is a beautiful thing – it will be a sad day if he is not in a Seahawks uniform next year!
Jerome Bettis says great rb’s have 3000 carries in them. Good backs have 2000. Lynch is at 2000. Bettis thinks he’s a 3000 carry back. Time will tell, but if he is a 3000 carry back, that is 3 more seasons. I see no reason other than ego that would keep them from letting him play his last season of his contract.
He doesn’t look like he’s wearing down to me. Apart from the odd issue, he’s out there every week.
I think they should extend Lynch an extra two years and structure it so that the Hawks can get out of it with little or no penalty at the end of each year. Essentially three one year contracts.
It’s probably worth noting that none of us have much insight into how big of a deal they think his lingering back issue is. Lynch said he stayed outside at half time because “he couldn’t walk”. Who knows how true that is. But every time I see them at a time out, and almost every time I see him on the sideline, it looks like his back is bothering him. It might be the case that this is a chronic and worsening injury and the medical staff/FO know it.
Fair point Radman
Ugh – we have serious issues! The Seahawks are not as good as we thought or as good as they thought.
Last year Golden Tate and for part of the season, Sidney Rice made defenses have to account of them. No one believes that Kearse or Baldwin can regularly beat them – because they don’t. Baldwin getting all upset thinking he got bumped – and stopping his route – to jump up and ask for a PI call – only proves my point. Kearse dropping a friggin TD pass that hits him in the hands?
Pete – are we really still about – always compete? Because if that is the case, Kearse should not be starting.
Britt is getting beat over and over again – always compete? So, this tells me we don’t really have people who are better.
Some of these guys coming off injury are not ready to play – Malc looked bad today. Thankfully, he made one really good play at the goal line – but in the end it didn’t matter.
Tough games coming up – and losing to KC isn’t fatal – but going forward, we have to almost be perfect. 11-5 is a good chance as a wildcard – 10-6 sitting at home in January. Time to step up guys – time to step up.
Mebane is a HUGE loss – and this defense isn’t as good as they and we thought.
I think they see a lot of up side in Britt so are willing to go through the rookie growing pains. Carp is a bust and they need to cut ties with him. A big signing would be Iupati whose contract is up IIRC. Of course Clayton says that you can only have eight players at 6mil or more (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9056896/2013-nfl-free-agency-six-million-dollar-men), since the cap is up from that article you may be able to add another one.
I believe that next year the Hawks will have Wilson, Thomas, Sherman, Lynch, Bennett, Okung and Unger(?) at that number so they might have room for two or three more. Not sure other than Wags who they might resign at that level. Maybe Avril? So they might be able to add one or two big names in FA…
Good to see the Bandwagon Seahawk fans are still out there. After the Super Bowl they were ready to sign Russell Wilson for life- now he’s not that good and isn’t worth $20 million.
Excuse me, but if I may, who will you find out there who is as good as Russell Wilson with as few weapons as he has and the mediocre pass blocking that accompanies it? I’m dying to hear some of your responses.
The guy is absolutely a franchise QB and it’s time to start treating him like one. Give him some receivers to throw to, give just a LITTLE time to go through progressions. My god, his best receiving option is DOUG BALDWIN, who is neither physically dominant nor a master of trade. He’s a solid, workman type receiver, and there’s value in that. But he can’t be your number one.
How did Tom Brady play last year when Hernandez went to jail and Gronk was hurt? He played like shit.
How did Tom play this year before Gronk came back? Again. Like shit. A QB needs some help.
The Colts have made Luck their focal point of the offense and have supplied him with many TE’s and WR’s and at least attempted to get him a RB to ease the load. He’s gotten steadily better and is absolutely killing it this year.
Continue on with your mindless banter of thinking you’ll find someone better than RW on the fly. You won’t.
Absolutely spot on Colin.
This team has a duty to put better weapons on the field for Wilson after the Harvin disaster. That has to start this off season. And it’ll be especially needy if they take Marshawn Lynch away.
Wilson is a franchise QB and it’s time to make life easier for him.
Yep agree with you Colin. On pretty much everything you said. Minor quibble though – he does have one HUGE weapon. # 24. But, overall, yes – four of his biggest weapons are all gone for various reasons – Tate, Rice, Harvin, and Miller.
Hopefully Richardson and Norwood will continue to grow and will be big contributors next year (by big I mean at least replace Tate’s production, which in Seattle offense is not big in terms of yards).
Good points!
Ha ha. Bandwagon fans? Seriously half of the “Hawk Fans” don’t even know the players names on the roster and because I would never pay any player period 20+ million I’m a bandwagon fan? Come on. Just because you would doesn’t make you the biggest fan ever of them you just would sign Sanchez to the same contracts that cost a general manager his job. My only thought is you don’t have money so you don’t know how to spend money.
oh my
That’s usually the response. Name calling. Way back when I argued with fans (and yes they are still fans and I consider them as such) that it was time to move on from Matt Hasselbeck, I was called all sorts of names (bandwagon among them). What can you say? This region falls in love with its sports heroes and even brings them back (Griffey) when they are washed up. I didn’t like the contract seattle gave to Shaun Alexander and I remember my brother in law calling me an idiot.
For the record, I want RW to get paid. He deserves to get paid. I just want the team to structure the deal where (unlike with Flacco or Romo) it can get out of it without crippling the franchise for a few years. I WANT badly for RW to be a 20 million dollar player. Is he that? I think there’s a debate there. He will get paid that much, I’m sure of it. The debate may not be about RW himself but the whole concept of the 20 million dollar player in general. The response is “it’s the going rate.” True. But some qb’s who are not elite have been getting paid big bucks and teams are stuck. I think the “team friendly” deal that Kaepernick signed may be indications of a sea change going on in this department.
I will say this, when RW gets paid, the spotlight goes on him even more and get prepared for the debate, because there will be no escaping it.
It’s in every sport. I’m guessing in 6 years most M’s fans will hate the Robinson Cano deal. They will forget the previous 4-5 years of elite play. Such is life in pro sports.
This is not a hate RW post. I love the kid. I don’t think this team is close to elite. I think it’s returned to the pack. It needs in lots of areas and that will take money. And these needs are not easy to find in the draft, so you may have to pay for it.
Haha This is a post by someone who has actually been a Seattle sports fan sijce longer than 2005… I can tell by reading his comments. Watching mybfavorite all time player get drafted overall number 1 by the Patriots in 1992 because we beat them in a meaningless game thst season by a field goal. We were then treated to the wonderful era of Mirer to Friesz to Kitna and need I say more? Come on OP, you probably still have a number 8 jerset in your closet still. The Holgren years were the darkest years of the Seahawks history when we were a soft, mush mouth finesse joke regardless of seasonal record. Rufus Porter spinebreaking football is Seahawks ball. Same thing with the ridiculous Cano contract, it is just Srattle sports. I hated Alexander, good ol 2 yards and I’m down- when we should have given that money to Jones, Hutchinson and Mack Strong. Because who COULDN’T run behind those human mosters. You are missing the point with your bandwagon bull. I ain’t about finding a replacement for Wilson. It is about not mortgaging the franchise giving him an insurmountable deal that only gets wirse per year because ‘that is what EVERYBODY is getting’. It isn’t about Wilson, it is about the DEAL. The poster above me understands Seattle sports
Posted from my cell with no spell check is unforgiving…. Yeesh
1976 – 12 years old and loved watching Efren and Zorn trying fake field goals. I’ve watched Patera, Flores, Knox, bad coaches, good coaches, bad players, good players HOF players. Watched this team not pick Tony Dorsett, waste picks on QB after QB after QB (Mirer; Stouffer; Gelbaugh, McGwire…) – watched Dilfer look pretty good and Matthew look good and bad.
And then comes along Russell Wilson – a third round draft pick with a big arm, lots of confidence and who was shorter than most QBs – and I loved everything he did. He is the best QB we have every had – and yes, I’m including Matt – because Russell has made more big plays, had more game winning drives than any of our other QBs.
Russell makes plays when the o line plays bad – makes average WRs look good – and he has set the standard very high. But if anyone thinks we can let him go and just find/draft someone else, well, you are mistaken.
Who do you want? Cutler; RGme; Locker? Who would you draft – Winston, Manion; Hundley; Mariota? Yeah, think again.
Russell isn’t playing as well because the supporting cast isn’t playing as well. But we need to keep Russell – he is the future.
Rob – one big question for you.
Are the Hawks getting too cute in the draft with this whole “seahawks way” thing? You can’t really find too many complaints when in ’10, ’11, ’12 they drafted: okung, thomas, sherman, chancellor, wright, wagner, irvin, tate, maxwell, lane, sweezy, smith, and of course Wilson (and not to mention UDFAs – Baldwin, Kearse,
But, I’d much rather have had them draft a HIGH IMPACT OL with their first pick in ’14 (so maybe wouldn’t have had to reach for Britt) and then draft a WR with their 2nd pick in this deep WR class.
Their general philosophy of finding OL seems to be run-blocking centric. I’d much rather have them draft 2 guards who are great pass blockers especially because Wilson is short (similar to Saint’s strategy).
Anyway, I feel that sometimes they try too hard to find “unique” qualities in high draft picks rather than go for safe/solid guys. You can try to hit home runs with the late picks. Anyway, just some thoughts.
I’m loathe to criticize because this team did such a fantastic (and underrated) job rebuilding this team from 2010 onwards. I think they backed themselves a little too much with the Harvin trade thinking they could make it work. That ultimately robbed them of two potential starters. If they’d hit with that 2013 first rounder we’d look at that draft differently. They also lost their third rounder this year which, in hindsight, wasn’t unsubstantial.
I think there are similarities to New England in recent drafts. Believing you know what constitutes a Patriots/Seahawks player, trading down to accumulate loads of picks and being unconventional almost on purpose. Is it quantity over quality? Maybe. Hindsight is a great thing but looking back at this years draft, you could make a case for arguing why didn’t they just draft Joel Bitonio at #32 knowing RT was a need (I know he’s playing guard in CLE, but for me he can play RT) and then look to make your moves from round two before adding a receiver from a deep class. Theoretically they could’ve had Bitonio and one of Bryant, Moncrief etc with the second pick. Again, hindsight is great. But these are players we discussed pre-draft so I don’t think it’s totally unfair.
I don’t have a problem with looking for special, difference making qualities. I just think there were players out there with more of those qualities that they passed on.
I don’t think it’s unfair at all to look back and wonder and question.
Looking back at the WR and OL talent they’ve let pass the last 2 years leads to a lot of head scratching.
Well I’ll tell you rob, one of the reasons I read this sight is the draft. While watching the game I was also watching a couple players that we talked about. We talked about Dontari Poe before his exceptional performance at the combine and his position in the draft change. How great would he be to have in Mebane spot now. The other player was Travis Kelce who I wanted to draft to eventually replace Miller. He was the very next pick after Christine Michaels. Ya he fumbled but I remember he was a road grader in the blocking game at Cincinnati and was getting more catches his last year to show he had soft hands. Every game there’s someone we looked at on the other team and you always have that thought what would that guy be doing for us now. It adds another perspective to every game. I even watch our old player like Golden Tate who we trained for 2 years before he finally got it. I got him cheap in my fantasy game and have done real good with him. I would say the Harvin trade was a complete blunder and might of screwed up the locker room a little. I like know if you agree with me that the biggest problem with this defensive line is the fact that they have not found that LEO spot to replace the production of Chris Clemons. I mean man, 10 sacks a year doesn’t even tell you about his the pressure he put on QBs or his run support. It also clear that Irving drafted in the 1st round number 15 is not that player.
It’s pretty amazing how the Harvin trade ha set this team back.
1. they lose a first round pick in 2013. This pick could have been DeAndre Hopkins, Cordarrelle Patterson, Travis Frederick, Zach Ertz Etc.
2. They lose a 3rd in 2014 – Many/most had Britt as a 3rd round talent. I get the feeling they reached on Britt because they didn’t have a 3rd to get him.
3. They lost Golden tate because of Harvin’s salary
4. They got all the drama associated with Harvin.
It’s amazing how that one move changed so many things for the negative.
Yup, ended up costing us a chance to repeat…
Really cost us four starters… Tate, 1st rd, 3rd rd and Harvin… amazing… Nice summary Cysco. I’m gonna go drown my sorrows now… 🙂
Plus it makes the other players mad because they brought in an outside agent and paid him way more then they will get. What happened to home grown talent? It was there, they just wouldn’t sign him. We lost Giacommini and Tate to Harvin’s salary. How much would you have given to have them back for yesterdays game?
Plus…aren’t we stuck with paying him dead money for the next two years because of the guarantees tied into his deal?
I was pretty meh on missing Tate, but where I really saw that the Seahawks are missing Tate is on punt returns.
Right or wrong, the punt that was downed inside the 5, Tate would have fielded the punt and got at least a couple extra yards. Then on the punt return at the end of the game where the Chiefs punted from their endzone, Bryan Walters literally had 20-30 yards of open space. If Tate was back there fielding the punt I am pretty sure that he would have gotten the Seahawks inside the 30 versus Walters only getting 10 yards and the Seahawks starting at the Chiefs 45.
Yup, Tate had the x-factor on PR and Walters is just a solid catcher.
And I also think Tate gave you two for one in roster spots. I have no doubt that Walters would be on the practice squad and not on the 40 man if Tate were still here. Then you could have another olineman, dlineman, etc.
Rob,
Great work as always and I read and enjoy everything post on this site.
Maybe you could do a post on the things you appreciate about Bevell? I think he’s holding the Hawks back in significant ways, but you continue to defend him.
Not sure if you’re interested, but you’re the only person I read defending him, and I’d be interested in your thoughts.
I think the shelf is quite bare when it comes to weapons for Wilson to be honest. Bevell doesn’t have much to work with so what he can call will be quite limited.
I will consider doing a piece on Bevell. The thing is — I think in general fans love to knock play callers. The reason is every bad call is put on a pedestal and the good calls often get forgotten unless it’s some kind of freaky trick play. Bevell gets no credit at all for Wilson’s smooth transition to the pro’s. Some of those read option wrinkles that have worked for three seasons now? Bevell. He’s become a bit of a scapegoat. He isn’t flawless, but no play caller is. Seattle’s offense has been great since he took the reigns.
We need to give Wilson his 20 mil a year he’s earned it and then some
Beavell sucks and needs to go, the sooner the better
Britt sucks as well, although he may get better as beavell will not
Harvin set us back as far as one can without missing on a franchise QB type pick (Leaf, Jemarcus Russell)
We need some weapons, we NEVER have an open receiver, its always a tight window, we never have anyone running wide open EVER!
To steal what jeff said earlier we need to quit getting cute with are early picks, hell Rob would have made better picks than what we have to show for are rescent 1 and 2 rd picks. (2 years now)
Lynch is a beast and are most talented and fun to watch player, however no player is bigger than the team quit being a whinny bitch because they traded you dope smoking thug buddy shut up and play! You held out when in fact you were the only player on are SB winning team that WAS NOT underpaid. So if he’s got to go so be it, dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
ONce again everyone keeps saying ” give RW his 20 mil ” Ikeep saying ” do you really think RW will take 20 mil when Dalton got 100 mil ? “
that’s 20mil per year, not total
And once again… $20m per year.
I wonder how many times he’ll go over this.
I think he is just trolling here. He has to of known 20 mil is per year.
Next draft we have a lot of picks so lets do two things:
1. Don’t trade down – pick somebody. Trading down is for losers that need more picks and are willing to give up quality available in the spot they used to have. And by the way, New England used to trade down but they aren’t doing that now.
2. If you aren’t planning on playing your first and second round player immediately then don’t pick them. We need impact players – not bench warmers.
I agree with so many things (and have said them as well). This team almost looks like next year needs a total rebuild.
-New O coordinator
-Okung/Unger talented but ALWAYS hurt
-Carpenter/Sweezy/Britt decent, but combined as oline below average
-No inside DT (to rush the passer or stop the run)
-Let’s get Norwood and Richardson on the field for the reasons we drafted them (Richardson-deep Norwood big body for fades and slants)
Aside from all that hopefully coming next year, if we can nut up and win the next 3, we go into the final 3 games with the chance to win the division and host a playoff game.
Go Hawks
If they do let Lynch walk, and the latest episodes and interviews sure seem to point in that direction, then I think they should do a total rebuild on offense. RW will be the centerpiece. And it may take a few seasons. Get the fricken red zone target for God sakes. We’ve all seen enough of trying to turn 5’10” receivers into Chris Carter. Maybe part ways with Carpenter, Kearse, and Miller. Get one of those backup guards that can flip to center almost seamlessly and start in any position.
No rb should be off the table. If a great scatback like Gordon is available and you don’t have power options, get him and scheme to his talents.
If they keep Lynch, then get the redzone target, maybe try to bring Carp back, keep Miller, and take another shot at the sb.
Rob- I think it would be interesting if you wrote an article about paying a long term 20-25 million dollar/year QB contract vs Kapernicks contract which only has 12.6 million guaranteed money.
It’s neither here nor there for me. Kaepernick’s cap hit averages at $20m per year the rest of the way. They’ll pay it too because he’s a franchise QB, as is Wilson. The guarantee thing is just a team insurance policy. I don’t think Seattle needs one. Wilson is the real deal.
What if he gets hurt. The way they use him, and depend on him, he is in harms way on nearly every play.
I know it doesn’t sound fair, esp since they are throwing him out there and to top it off, probably going to take away his best weapon – Lynch – but if my coworker who used to work at the VMAC is correct, he’s playing hurt already.
Sometimes I wonder if his amiable personality is being taken advantage of, because it sure seems that PC is counting on him overlooking the fact that they may be shortening his life span using him the way they are.
It’s too early to judge the draft class but I feel the same as on draft day–they got too cute with their draft strategy. They needed OL help and passed on Bitonio. Hindsight’s 20/20 but it’s hard to believe that Bitonio and Britt graded out the same. Sometimes you have to pass on the lure of the extra pick.
As far as Harvin, it’s definitely a potential dynasty breaker (unless they can continue to spin straw into gold)–there’s no other way of looking at it.
The Seahawks are still an excellent team but the fact is the confluence of schedule and injuries make this a hard mountain to scale.
it’s not hindsight when so many of us were saying the same thing before, during, and after the draft. It’s just honest criticism.
WHen you have draft blogs like this one doing “weird” scenarios trying to match what JS/PC think, then it doesn’t get any more stark than that.
Devils advocate. We hate Harvin and what he did to the Hawks this year. But he opened up the offense and made Denver play the whole field the rest of the way and our offense did pretty well. He also put the dagger in the heart and ended the the game. Could we have one without him, probably. But I will still make that deal because it got the Hawks a Lombardi trophy.
Now it’s time to nut up this year.
For next year, a lot to due. Need to hit like we did early in PC/JS years.
We got to the superbowl on our defense and would have won without Harvin. It was just exciting watching him, like unwrapping a new toy.
Let’s be honest here. The past few drafts have not yielded the needed talent to keep this team going. WR position aside from Tate, who is gone, has been dismal regaLet’s be honest here. The past few drafts have not yielded the needed talent to keep this team going. WR position aside from Tate, who is gone, has been dismal regarding the draft. There will be defenders because of a super bowl win, but the was because the early hits in the draft, great depth, and luck. A ball bouncing the right way and injuries help teams out. This has not gone their way. The team has glaring needs and a good draft and offseason is needed to reload through the draft. There will be defenders because of a super bowl win, but the was because the early hits in the draft, great depth, and luck. A ball bouncing the right way and injuries help teams out. This has not gone their way. The team has glaring needs and a good draft and offseason is needed to reload.
Wish there was an edit button. My post is a mess. Haha. Dang phone pasted and move content. Yikes