This was a reality check.
The excitement of the last few weeks, tempered.
Typically, the Pete Carroll Seahawks gave themselves a chance to tie the game on the very last play. Did you expect anything else? But the reality is the score flattered Seattle.
The Chargers ran the ball better, were more physical and had control. They made the explosive plays. They won the turnover battle.
It was a repeat of last weeks game in Detroit. Only this time, the Seahawks were on the receiving end.
The run defense gave up 160 yards at 7.3 YPC. The pass rush struggled to lay a glove on Philip Rivers in the first half and sacks from Frank Clark and Jarran Reed shouldn’t mask the lack of consistent pressure.
The offense lost all rhythm as soon as Chris Carson left the game and struggled to stay on track. It clearly impacted Russell Wilson who had his worst game since week two.
This was a day to forget and a reminder of where this team is.
Welcome to a reset season.
Next on the schedule: Rams (A), Packers (H), Panthers (A).
What a stretch. Get ready — because this might not be a one-off.
Even with the backdrop of a reset year, this is still a deflating loss. It was starting to feel like something special was building. Could this be 2012 instead of 2011? On this evidence it seems not. The 2011 season had some dynamic wins but also some tough losses against good teams. At 4-4, the likelihood of a run to 7-9 or 8-8 seems more likely than a run to 11-5.
The defense deserves some credit for sticking in. LA’s only second half points were a pick-six from Wilson. They gave Seattle’s offense multiple chances to get on track. It didn’t happen until it was too late.
Chris Carson’s injury seemed to impact everything. This has been Carson’s career to date — college and the NFL. He’s never been a consistent bell-cow and it remains to be seen if he ever will be. He’s such an important player but he’s also going to miss games.
Russell Wilson had to make up the difference with the run stymied. Instead he struggled and his second half performance was particularly bad:
— The needless sacks
— Missing a wide open Jaron Brown
— The pick six
Wilson, as he’s known to do, almost made amends at the end. It wasn’t to be.
The Chargers were setting the tone. They were the alpha’s this week. In Detroit and London, Seattle were the bullies. Here, it was LA. Led by the brilliant Rivers.
The Seahawks were battered, hurt and humbled before a late flourish.
So what can we take away from this game?
Firstly, fingers crossed for good injury news. Carson, Bradley McDougald and D.J. Fluker all left the game. They can ill-afford to lose all three heading to the Rams next week.
Secondly, the Seahawks looked ready to compete. If the last three games were a step forward, this was a big step back. Reality bites sometimes. They will give some teams problems this year. But they’ll also have some losses where they look like this. It was starting to look like they were ready to content. The truth is, there’s still work to do.
Here’s a stat to leave you on — Seattle is 5-7 in their last 12 home games. That’s interesting.
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Our punt return is putrid…Lockett has half the coverage on top of him…this is frustrating…two years of inefficiency. Kick off return was bad also. What gives? The d played well…but they missed mcdougall. Russel played conservatively….maybe it was the coverage, but throw the ball away. The zebras were horrible…what’s new? Seems like the d made adjustments in the 2nd and the o continued to fall on their face.
He needs to learn to fair catch. Could have got the ball on the 40, let it roll to the 25. Not the first time he has done that either.
I agree – his sole job is to catch the ball, instead he watched it roll. Penny wasn’t any better at returns.
reality, like father time, is undefeated.
was hoping for a lot better, but 7 to 9 wins seems pretty realistic this year.
defense was not up to par in the first half, never seemed to be able to stop either Allen or Gordon all game. But have to give credit to the Chargers for a better offensive game plan and execution.
Carson showed how important he is when he went out. Davis is ok, but not as explosive. And Penny seems slow. Wishing they had tried Prosise in this game. Wonder if the did not dress him because he is not healthy, or going with the other guys? Would like to see him as a hybrid WR/RB and look for mismatches. The offense needs some more explosive players.
Moore had 2 catches on 7 targets, couple drops. Baldwin went 4 for 4. Vannett got a bunch of catches. Where were Tyler and Dickson?
Aussie Dickson had a good day punting.
Wagner was very good, and KJ, especially in 2nd half, but the D line got blown off the ball during running plays too often and Wagner got lost trying to get the ball carrier.
missed tackles were a killer today
Hill played most of 2nd half I think, did not notice any huge mistakes by him, so that could be a good sign
refs seemed to make a few bad calls, but Hawks did not play well enough to deserve a win.
The Chargers run game is much different to ours. There was a whole lot to learn.
I was hoping our top 5 defense was real but it got exposed badly today. Offense looked steady despite Russ not playing well. Overall we look young and average.
Well, the defense didn’t give up a single point in the second half. They started slowly but shut things down. I think they deserve credit for that. The pass rush still needs help though and the run defense was surprisingly weak today.
I thought the offense was boring and unthreatening for the most part — and then became bitterly frustrating with the way Wilson played in the second half until the end. The offense gifted the Chargers six points with the interception too. Very bad day for the offense.
The chargers are really good offensively. The D held their own today.
I am not so sure giving up 180 yds on the ground is “holding their own”.
A lot of those yards were in the first half, and despite them giving up some big runs in the second half, they didn’t lead to any points.
It’s to what I want, giving up that many, but the team only dressed two DTs for some terrible reason and held a high scoring offense to 19 points. Even if you give them the their botched STs points the did hold them less than their average.
Dressing only two DTs bit in the arse a bit for sure.
Defense gave up zero points in the 2nd Half. I don’t feel like our defense was exposed today.
Sorry, I meant to add “rushing yds”.
Disappointing loss but not a big suprise given the problems the Hawks always seem to have with Rivers who is ridiculously good.
A big part of a successful run game is staying on schedule and avoiding penalties and negative plays. After that first awesome drive the Hawks could not do that.
Russ just seemed off today. Not sure why but if he plays like himself today then he the Hawks would have looked much better today. He had games like this sometimes where he looks a little confused and almost lost at times then he bounces back. The needless sacks where he refuses to just throw away the ball are maddening.
I think this team has 3 clear needs heading into next year.
1) DL / Pass Rush – this is an absolute must
2) Secondary Depth- CB and Safety
3) One more playmaker on offense. Either a dynamic TE or WR.
Still really excited about this team but today was definitely a reality check.
I agree completely on you’re 3 top needs.
There was some good and some bad tonight, late flourish, ultimately very deflating ending. How many times has that been the script for Seattle the last few years.
Still this was a really good Chargers team we played, one that finally looks ready to deliver on their potential. Rivers is god damn infuriating to play against, even when we play the Chargers in preseason he does this too us.
Individual notes: bad game from David Moore today a couple pivotal drops, T2 has continues making big plays and giving up big plays. Same with the corners (young secondary and all that). It’s disappointing that Penny hasn’t been able to win the RB2 slot, because Davis is a big step down from Carson. Nick Vannet has been incredibly reliable, if unspectacular at TE, he’s what we were hoping for from Uncle Will before we discovered he’s the second coming of Gronk, if Gronk wasn’t in the slightest bit an elite athlete. Michael Dickson is the GOAT, dont let anyone tell you any different.
I still think this is a roster with enough talent to go on a great run to finish the year (the caveat being that we’ll need to actually play well at home.) I just hope we’re not too far behind the pack by that point for it to matter.
Rest well Carson and Fluker, this team needs you.
The Chargers are that team no one is paying attention to until it’s too late. They get Bosa back watch out. Wouldn’t wanna play them if I’m in the AFC.
Other than Gurley or Mahomes, Brees too, Rivers is having an MVP caliber season.
Agreed, i hope they can stay healthy and not shoot themselves in the foot. Rivers deserves a Super Bowl. And anyone but the pats in the AFC is desirable.
Rivers is a heckuva talent for sure. But also the biggest baby to ever play the game. He whines more than Michael Jordan did back in the day. Do they still call him “cry like a Rivers”?
The only 2nd coming of Gronk is the God King George Kittle. Dissly was ascending but not on the level of God tier.
Wilson played like Dave Krieg. That was pathetic.
Dave Krieg on an off day, that is. Krieg had days where he got really hot and was nearly unbeatable. Kind of like Wilson, actually.
I totally felt the same way and I mentioned that on Fieldgulls and got shredded of course. But Wilson is Krieg now. I seriously hope the Hawks dont pay him 15+% of the salary cap next year.
I even think Willy might beat one of the next 3 teams we play, Krieg would have 2 or 3 of those surprising games every year, but in the end 8-8 was our alloted lot, and sometimes we lost in the wildcard game. I want better than that. I’ll take a rookie with a good head and athleticism instead of pay RW3 a
Oh good, one loss and we’re back to this.
I would trade Wilson rather than pay him 32 a year. He is limited….we saw it today.
But he made those same passes last week. The NFL has definitely figured out a game plan for RW let’s see how he does the next 2 games.
And replace him with who? Sam Bradford?
Just 1 week ago he had a perfect passer rating!
Interesting decisions to have Pocis inactive (when he can basically play any position on the line), as well as both Ford and Naz.
Hunt was overmatched when asked to play guard, and our run defense in the middle was gashed.
I did not enjoy seeing Hunt in at guard… He’s barely the size of an Offensive Lineman, more like a big Inside Linebacker. At C i think he can hold his own in pass pro, but can he ever hope to move people off the ball?
Mike Davis whiffed on a block that resulted to a sack. After today performance I think Penny is not that far away from tak
ing his job.
I finally get to say this….. the offensive play calling was dubious in the 3rd and part of the 4th quarter.
You lose your top RB and RG…. and then try to run an inside run/rush play with zero misdirection…. several times… and get stoned.
There was some creativity in the offense, but once the run game got bogged down, other types of plays were not in the arsenal or dialed up or appeared to be off the table…. when they went to play action pass plays, they were still effective. RW was off target on a few throws, but he made up for it with a few darts he threw into very tight coverage late in the game.
Talk about bailing out the Chargers kicker….. he was a ready made goat in the making with that performance.
OL made lots of penalty mistakes like start of year.
Russ was not good.
Refs were awful, first half OPI call was horrendous, and late hit by Fluker questionable.
I know the D got gouged, but second half they stopped the scoring against a dangerous O. Inconsistent pressure was the downfall.
The game was kept closer than it was by the Charger kicker. But even so if Russell hits Lockett in stride on that slant and/or lofts that other one to Brown and let’s him run under it those are explosive touchdowns and the whole energy in the building changes. It’s very clear that when Russell is mediocre, the team follows his lead
That pick 6 play call need to be removed. Same exact play twice lost the games this year. Defense knows it’s coming and did not honor Doug’s presence at all.
Its easy when Russell locks into a receiver.. Its what he does from time to time. Even if king wasn’t there, I think the corner on D Moore woulda been there to knock it down anyway.. Russell needs to recognize and move on the second read.. But when its a quick out or slant he just guns it.. Thats why we needed to drop JImmy Graham.. he would try to dart it into him and not go through his progression..
Play of the game was OPI on Moore Baldwin. We are down 12-7 refs dont call tat I think this game is very different we at least get 3 probably 7. We end up missing 50 yard field goal and LA receives ball on 40 flipping field position.
Just an awful penalty (bad call) and it sure seems like other teams never get their picks called when they play us
With Carson missing, this was the type of the game penny should have taken over and show why he is a 1st round pick. Run game still ended up 150+ yards at good 5.8y. This is all on Russ. We are missing come back Russ for 4th loss in a row. Russ getting rattled coming from behind with elite pass rusher on the other end.
Back to reality? Yes. Step back? Eh, I don’t think so. They are an 8-9 win club despite progress. This a young team with shallow depth still. It showed. The drop in performance when McDougald, Carson, Fluker and T2 is staggering. It was a bit of a perfect storm. You are going to. Have to ride the ups and downs with young guys. T2, Flowers, Griffin and Moore had a tough day. Russ had a tough day too. He looked like he was trying to make something happen once Carson left. Though runs on the first 2 downs for negative yards and expecting him to bail us out is a game plan we know doesn’t work. The pick was bad and Seattle should never be in empty formation as they are the shits in it. But he wasn’t the only one. Wags and KJ had trouble getting off blocks all day and the underneath coverage was spotty early. Mcdougald got caught peeking and got beat deep by Allen to set up a TD. Just a tough game against a hot team with a QB with history of success against us. Some positives as the D rebounded and the run game resurfaced late. Pressure picked up a little late. Offense had a chance to tie. Worst part of the game was in the 2nd or 3rd quarter when the fans booed for consecutive drives. Some people are as fickle as they accuse the Sherman’s and Bennett’s of being. This team is still ahead of schedule in my book.
Yes this is a step back on the last three weeks. This performance was nowhere near the level they found vs the Rams, Raiders and Lions.
None of those teams are as good as the Chargers interior OL. The goods news, Chargers exposed the Seahawks weakness so none of us have a false sense of security. Next year we need a strong draft and a couple cheap FA winners for a SuperBowl run.
I have zero problem with booing when you run (give up) on 2nd and 24 in the fourth quarter down 9.
I wonder if Wilson suffered a concussion midway through the game. He started strong took a couple sacks and was then just off, but in the fourth seemed back to normal.
How should we judge pass rush? It was noted by the crew how Rivers was the king of getting rid of the ball just before taking it on the chin. They then showed several plays from the first half where he was delivering completions with only about 2.5 seconds to throw before being hit. It’s not like he sat back there like Wilson on his first TD. This is what the Hawks are. The D will be good enough. The Offense has to be on point to win. Today the D met reasonable expectations and the Offense did not. Depth is a huge issue, Hunt looked like a child trying to replace Danny Lee Jesus Fluker.
Rivers had all day to throw in the first half
I’ve been praising Schott the past few weeks but he was bad today. They knew we weren’t going to run on first down and we had so many second and Longs because of the wasted first downs running into stacked boxes. It just took too long to make adjustments.
Schotty has always been bad. Can’t let a string of games fool ya.
Perhaps we didn’t deserve to win, yet the story of this game to me is unfortunately an avalanche of penalties, bad calls, and bad no-calls. It’s hard to have success when every first down is negated by a questionable penalty, and Mike Williams was clearly, indisputably, out of bound on the “touchdown.”
We didn’t do enough to win in the end, but this was a hard game to witness due to reffing — and I mean hard as in how the hell did we all sit through that sideshow?
Other bullet points: we didn’t stop the run, obviously. That hurt our chances the most.
Russell wasn’t his best, yes, he took some bad sacks, but I thought he coped reasonably well with an offense derailed by penalties. The underthrow to Brown was a huge miss… And the pick 6, we have to stop throwing that blindly to the sidelines — that’s two pick 6’s for Russell this year, after only one the rest of his career. Same direction, same pass.
In the end we had a chance to force overtime, and although LA dominated the game, I had been waiting for that momentum shift. I thought we were unfairly undone when the game was developing, and put too far behind when it mattered most.
Yeah bad calls aside, the OL put us in a hole with penalties all game, similar to the start of the year. Pete and Brian typically give up once we lose yards too, it’s frustrating.
“Running into stacked boxes” Isn’t it Wilson’s job to kill the runn ing play and audible to a quick screen or slant pass? That has always been his short coming, in my opinion.
Remember when he did that earlier in the season and got chewed out? The vision — and to be fair, the vision has been working — is to run the ball with obstinate even when they know it’s coming. Better execution I think was needed, and we missed Carson.
The modern NFL were the 4 of the 5 best teams have defenses in the bottom half and none of the 5 have a D in the top 10. Yet GB was trying to kick FGs against the Pats. Take this L.
Wasn’t their best game but I’m not sure a step back. It’s just the highs and lows of a young team. It’s going to happen. A bit of a perfect storm today. The young guys didn’t have a great day. Flowers, Tedric, Griffin and Moore didn’t have their best effort. They should have a lot of opportunities to get better before playing the Rams. The vets had an off day too. Russ was off and seemed to be pressing especially when Carson left. However negative yards on runs on 1st and 2nd down and Russ please bail us out is a proven bad game plan. The pick was bad and Seattle should never be in empty formation as they are the shits in it. He wasn’t alone though. Some over pursuit and bad run fits by Wags and KJ early. Mcdougald got caught peeking and got beat deep by Allen to set up a TD. Worst part of the day was the crowd booing loudly in the middle of the game. Maybe the expectations were raised too high but this is who the team is. An 8-9 win team that is lacking some talent and has a scary drop in performance from starters to backup. Just a tough day against a QB that has had our number for years. Keep growing and it will be ok
They had no rhythm and were not as physical and didn’t run as well as LA. I’d say that is a step back.
12’s should take it easy. At start of season we were not sure how our starting eleven will play, at least we are close. Depth is an issue which was not a surprise. With all the negatives, imagine we were a play away for overtime assuming we convert 2 points. It’s learning experience for our new players and coaches. Which players should be active every game seems to be challenging job for our coaches wonder why.
No expectations that we go to post season, if we get close and fight till end for every game we should be happy. C’Link is no more W.
All that whining loosing to a legit SB co tender (cheer for SB without the dreaded Pats!), when it was perfectly logical, that the play of the first half vs Lions was unsustainable (a game won because of a elite day by Russ)
We shouldn’t fall into despair over such a game. We are still -1 for a wildcard spot. Rams next.
It still pisses me a lot to talk about the LA Chargers. This team belongs to SD. At least, they always had a home.crowd there. Now, they play in LA, every game a road game. Shame on anyone invested.
As difficult as it was to watch the defense give up all those easy yards in the first half, they adjusted well in the second half and held an top flight offense to 19 points. IMO, that was impressive.
I thought Delano Hill stepped in for Bradley and played well enough, especially considering there’s been thoughts of him being a bit of a bust.
Jarran Reed had that key sack at the end, but was getting pressure at other times. Rivers is a tough QB to get to.
Russell just wasn’t consistent enough like we needed him to be. If this offense is going to be run run pass, it puts more pressure on the QB to be on it. He wasn’t enough but he wasn’t helped by drops and unsportsmanlike penalties.
I thought Seattle beat themselves in this one and you cannot do that against good teams.
As for the home record, I think Seattle has been a bit spoiled. The fans are different these days. I don’t see the diehards like I used to. Maybe the team takes the reputation of Clink for granted a bit.
At 4-4 let’s see how this team responds with their backs to the wall and if they end up stealing a few.
The boos from the 12s yesterday were justified.
Well I wonder if those booing witnessed the 2008 or 2009 season.
I have no way of confirming this. But i really have a feeling that Poona was missed in run D yesterday. What was with the lack of active DTs?
It certainly looked that way. Ford does not play a ton of snaps but when he does he has been really active and solids against the run. Hope he is back in there next week.
I thought it might have been a miscalculation to only activate two DTs. At first, it seemed like the Chargers were attacking the perimeter of the defense with run and quick passes, but Gordon got off some explosive inside runs at the game went on. They could have used Ford rotating inside.
Shottenheimer is so frustrating to me. The last few weeks he has looked like a genius at the head of an unstoppable train. Yesterday, his lead RB goes down, the original game plan gets shot, and he had no idea how to correct. He’s got to show an ability to adapt to the game much more than he has so far.
If Wilson can check to a run that gains 9 yards because the field is spread, why can’t we run plays DESIGNED that way? Why do they continually run into stacked boxes?
Its hard to say how much of what is called is bad and how much of it is in the execution. Whatever the case may be, just stop with the yo-yo act already!
Don’t underestimate the impact of the head coach on the offensive game plan. Pete spent weeks apologising for going off script in the first two weeks. I think he’s ‘all in’ on not doing it again. So Schotty might not be the issue there.
This is 100% true. This is Pete’s team, this is his defense and yes this is his offense. Schotty is only doing what Carrol wants and how Carrol wants. That is why I have doubt in bright future with both of Pete and Russ.
Fair point. I just have to wonder why there isn’t a common middle ground to be found? Why does going off script have to be throwing 40+? Is there not a way to still run the ball without sending it straight into 8 helmets?
Agree that we should try more off-tackle run at the very least, yet the vision is and has been to run it down their throats. It’s a beautiful thing when it’s working, and when it’s not it’s hard to come up with enough opportunities to do it. The difference between some of those 3-yard runs and a 6-or-7-yard run might have been a Chris Carson. Similar to Marshawn, I think the genius of Chris is his ability to pick up hidden yards and make below-average plays into average plays, or negative plays into moderately positive plays. In this style of offense that is huge.
I think the identity is more impose our will rather than run it down their throats. Running it that much, you have to vary the run game. Its part of the success this year that they have incorporated more man blocking plays. I think an off tackle play would be great as would a wham type concept with Dickson or Fant trapping to the inside. Cant agree more on Carson and picking up the extra yards though. Hopefully Penny comes around. I think the transition to a 50/50 zone running team is hard for him. Truth be told it took Marshawn a bit to learn too.
I think he is like a lot of coaches in that he is far more comfortable playing from the front and attacking rather than reacting. Once his game plan is shot (Carson…) then he is slow to react and he wastes a lot of possessions trying things out. It might be a bit of Pete’s hubris too, as he has always counted on the D to bail him out and get another possession. What i can’t figure out for the life of me is when the pressure is getting home, why do we never move the pocket? Its crazy considering our personnel.
What’s up with Jones not playing much this year?…We never hear a reason. Last year he showed a lot of promise.
I really scratched my head at the inactives. I guess the Hawks believed the injury report and thought they wouldn’t be able to run. They learned a lesson there.
They also had better get Penny more involved because he is looking slow and flatfooted out there. Definitely does not look like a first round RB.
That’s the big question that Pete never really fully answers. I think it is implied that maybe he has regressed a bit, and they don’t trust him as well as the other DTs in certain match ups. Maybe it is a discipline thing, technique and pad level thing.
Profile suggest he lost weight this year and watching him preseason he was man handled on run plays.
The biggest question mark for sehawks future is next: Does PC offense need QB like RW(with his salary)? He will ask to be one of the, if not the highest paid player in the league. For what? To throw the ball 20 times per game (if running game function well and that is the main goal of PC)?
If I have to choose between RW and PC I am choosing PC all day.
Wilson will want to be paid like one of the, if not the highest paid player in the league. And he will be. And then two years later he won’t be anymore.
Even if you want to feature the run heavily, having a hyper efficient passing game is still extremely important. This is still the modern NFL. Those 20 balls a game have to punish opponents for keying in on the run. Complete the circle. This is the fundamental flaw of the run vs pass “debate”, old school guys like Pete have never said the passing game isn’t important, its all about balance. Remember the 2011 Seahawks? Remember the Jags now? You still need the Quarterback.
Its gonna get real tiresome if every loss this season is accompanied by a fresh wave of trade Russ rubbish.
The trade Russ Wilson talk will cool off if he:
A. Quits running backwards and getting sacked for a 10+ yard loss
B. Quits holding onto the ball way too long.
C. Continues to throw accurate passes.
Yes Im sure we’d all like a QB with no faults. And every other player with no faults too.
I am a big fan of Russ but this is a very fair question IMO.
If Pete wants a run heavy ball control team with an elite defense. Is making Russ the highest paid player in the league the best option for this vision.
For example if you want to run the ball 34-40 times and pass it say 18-24 times per game would you prefer
Option #1 Russ at $30 mil + or
Option #2 Tyrod Taylor, Clowney and Grady Jarrett (or something similar with an elite pass rusher, game manager QB and Interior defender.)
Still think I prefer Russ as once you find an elite QB I think you have to stick with him but if this is Pete’s vision for the team it makes it worth a discussion.
Tyrod is really not very good, I cant understand how people keep floating that as an acceptable option.
Throwing fewer times, or only throwing on third down when you “need it” , just makes the throw that much more critical.
I think you have to ask yourself if RWs strengths are enough to overcome his weaknesses.
Strengths: has a good touch on the long ball, can rifle the ball in to receivers when he has to, does well at hitting the running back coming out of the backfield, is a good scrambler.
Weakness: Has a hard time hitting a quick slant up the short middle, hasn’t had a lot of success at setting up screen plays, holds onto the ball too long, and sometimes gets tackled 10 to 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
At this point I see him as a Jay Cutler type, good enough to get into the playoffs, but needs a strong defense and a lot of help on the offense to go farther. The modern equivalent of Aaron Rogers.
Did you just equate Jay Cutler to Aaron Rogers?
Comparing Wilson to Cutler is asinine.
Does it make sense to trade RW in a year that the draft class isn’t looking very good?
I don’t see trading RW happening for many reasons, but this questions seems to fit the spirit of Rob’s site.
There’s not elite OL, QBs, WRs, safeties in this coming class. There are some nice looking DTs and edge players, and linebackers.
Wouldn’t Seattle be best served to add a talented front seven player to it’s young defense and keep it’s franchise QB for another season, and see how 2019 plays out with him?
Trading Wilson would merely secure a first class ticket to irrelevence.
100% agree unless we draft a stud QB. So far I do not see that QB in the 2019 draft. Even if we do find someone with that skill set in 2020 there is no guarantee the QB will be durable.
Tend to agree as a franchise QB is the hardest thing to find in Football. But the teams that have won Super Bowls with a great defense. (Bears, Bucs Ravens, Hawks and Broncos) all did so without elite QB play (Mcmahon, Dilfer, Young Wilson, Old Manning) that is why I think it is at least worthy of a discussion.
I personally think in todays NFL you need an elite QB to win in the playoffs and you saw first hand yesterday what can happen when you rely too much on the run game and either have penalties or fall behind.
I think the Hawks need to just find the right mix of a power run game while still keeping the passing game sharp. The Chargers did a great job of just that yesterday.
Sometimes I can’t believe this is even a thing.
A handful of teams won a Super Bowl with what we consider ‘non-elite’ QB’s. And yet even Flacco was playing exceptionally well during Baltimore’s last run.
The quickest way to become a crappy team is to remove your high quality QB and replace him with a veteran (who won’t be cheap — look at Bradford’s last contract!) or a rookie who isn’t anywhere near as good.
I implore everyone to just stop with the trade Russell talk.
As for the Chargers — it’s as simple as this. They ran better than us, made more explosive plays and won the turnover battle.
An off-day. That’s it.
+1
+2
Our lack of results at home is total bullshit though
I’m not sure how much I like our safety group outside of McDougald. Adding a FS that can cover and hit could’ve made a big difference in this game. I’ve recently watched some film from Maryland’s FS #4 Darnell savage Jr. Dude lives up to his name, he’s a savage. Closing speed that I can’t help but be reminded of ET. Not sure how much single high he plays but he definitely jumps off the screen when you watch him play. Have you watched any of his film rob?
Rob have you watched any film on FS from Maryland #4 Darnell Savage jr. Our need for a ball hawking FS seems high on our list of team needs(unless earl thomas comes back). But he jumps off the screen when I watched him. His game against Texas is ridiculously good. Legit 4.4 speed which we miss. I like TT2 but him getting beat over top could be a problem because he might not have the speed to make up for mistakes.
I haven’t but I will keep an eye out
Nice find will have to check him out.
This actually reminded me a lot of the Bears and broncos game. On offense we had the opportunity to set the tone with the run and did on the first drive, but then reverted to trying to pass instead of becoming the bully. In the broncos game I thought for sure we looked more physical with the Carson runs and dissly catches, but then our philosophy seemed to shift. Similarly, instead of pounding and punishing the rock, we wanted the big play. Also, in the bears/broncos games russ was off target on crucial third down throws (and threw that same pick six in the 4th quarter when we were driving).
On defense, I know injuries were a factor but our secondary seemed to lack communication which led to big plays. Also, why are we rushing 3 and giving rivers all day to find the open receiver?
To me, this loss is on the coaches. They had our number be it the lack of prep against the fly sweep, no pressure on 3rd and long, switching to the pass before establishing the run.
I only got to see the first half and maybe that’s a good thing. The Chargers are good, guys. We knew that going into the game. SEA still has a lot of youth and are trying to prove themselves. The fact that they gave up so much early on defense sucks. The fact that they came back and gave themselves a chance at the end doesn’t suck. Games like this will happen. Resiliency is a good trait to have.
What I’m disappointed about is how after one loss (and a close one at that) some fans just completely turn on this team and complain about them. Control your expectations. Think Rashaad Penny is a bust? Do you like Melvin Gordon? Their rookie seasons are similar, albeit with the caveat that Gordon was the #1 guy. Both Penny and 2015 Gordon played the season at 22 years old. Melvin finished with 3.5 YPC, 5.8 YPR, no TDs and 6 fumbles. Penny is thus far averaging 3.5 YPC, 8.3 YPR, with no TDs and no fumbles. Oh, and by the way, Gordon went on to have over 1,400 total yds in 2016 with 12 TDs and almost 1,600 total yds in 2017 with 12 TDs. He already has almost 900 total yards and 10 TDs this season after 8 games. There’s no reason to give up on Penny this early.
I think the Gordon / Penny comp is a great point. I for one still have high hopes for Penny. He looks tentative and slow to hit holes like Gordon did year one and has not had a game where he was the lead guy to really get rolling.
I would agree with your argument if Penny showed some signs of quickness and power. He was the Seahawks no 1 pick. They picked Penny over 5 other running backs who were rated higher – making the pundits scratch their head with the inevitable excuse – but Pete Carroll knows better.
That should have translated into him being a valuable starter from day one. Instead we are still wondering if he is a winner or just an average running back after 8 games. That’s reality. He’s not Gordon – he’s Penny = and he needs to get his freak on. Because at this point an injured Carson is still playing better then Penny.
Totally agree. Penny has shown absolutely ZERO physical talent since he put on a Seahawks uniform, including in training camp. He’s just a guy. It’s a big swing and a miss.
It was shocking watching Kerryon Johnson and just how much more physically talented he looks than Penny.
I will never understand how this organization cannot draft in R1, but can dominate in the later rounds. Literally makes zero sense to me.
People need to stop writing off a rookie a few games into his career.
It’s beneath us.
Well said!
People doubted Gordon in year one.
People need to give Penny a tricking break.
+1
Also comparing him to Carson is not fair either. Carson is a freak and there are only 2-3 guys like him in the league. Durability is his issue the talent is undeniable.
Thing is, our QB isn’t a rookie. And he was flat out bad for much of the game. I was at the game yesterday. When you see it live a poor performance like the one Wilson gave really stands out.
I’ve got to completely disagree on this. Penny looks fat and slow. He can’t make anybody miss. There is just zero explosion out of him. He literally looks like an UDFA plodder.
Melvin Gordon struggled his rookie season. He also didn’t look like he was wearing weighted boots. That’s why I wholly disagree with this comparison.
I am going to be shocked if Penny amounts to anything even remotely worthy of a R1 RB. And I say this as someone who has no problem with drafting a RB in the top 10, let alone R1.
Fat and slow?
Stop being silly
Rob- Don’t you get tired of defending players who aren’t performing?
I’m not going to write Penny off = but I damn well won’t defend him until he puts in a few good games and shows that he has the talent to be a lead running back. Or how about a good kick return? Show me something – and show it game after game.
I don’t keep defend players who aren’t performing. It’s wrong of you to assert that I’m a dab hand at it.
What I actually get tired of is reading people slam a rookie over and over again eight games into his career.
With Carson out he’s likely to see more snaps anyway
If he was udfa it’d be a win if he made the first team. People lose perspective when it comes to first round picks.
It’s not like you’ve ever pretended to be a huge fan of the pick. You can understand the perspective to draft him and the perspective to bring him along slowly after he missed his first preseason with injury and the games are just so vital if you want to return to the playoffs.
What, if anything, would put Pete on the hotseat for you, Rob?
I can’t imagine a scenario where Pete’s on the hotseat. Not at 4-4. Not with the way they’ve played so far.
If they’d completely tanked I’d get it. But at worst they’ll be 7-9 I think.
I’m absolutely being hyperbolic, but he flat out looks like a replacement level talent, so far.
Yes, he is a rookie…but he’s a 1st Round RB who has shown no flashes; even the physical ability looks suspect. I guess my biggest problem with Penny is that he’s a finesse runner…I love Carson and Davis because they bring the wood, man.
I’m not writing him off at this point, but I’m dubious that he amounts to anything remotely worthy of his draft status.
Be dubious but hyperbole isn’t necessary this early into his career
Penny…is fine…recognize that penny did not play much in college…one year a full time starter I think. He’s learning this offense…I suspect this is the reason he appears slow at times. My prediction…he’ll be the primary back in the last few games of the year…and we’ll be very excited for him to play in 2019. I remember screaming at lynch in his first year with Seattle…then I got the best quake.
“(Penny) is learning this offense…I suspect this is the reason he appears slow at times.”
Very true statement. While scouting Penny it was clear that SDSU’s offense is way different than Seattle’s. He mostly ran out of I form- sweeps, power, iso, counters. Its hard to play fast while lacking confidence. Penny seems unsure of himself.
Remaining teams to face:
Rams
Packers
Vikings
Chiefs
49ers x2
Cardinals
My guess is we win 2-3 of these games and get 6-7 wins this year. My initial thought earlier in the year was we would win 4-6 games but then we started winning and said….maybe we win 9. The problem is the teams we’ve beaten in those 4 games. Not very good teams.
Carson going out was a huge loss and if we can’t count on Carson or Penny then what do we do to fix or at least maintain a decent offense? I am fairly impressed with our defense considering we lost most of our elite players in the last year but we certainly need another above average pass rusher like Clowney. My hope for next years draft/FA signing is we get either Wilkins or Lawrence in the draft and pick up Clowney in free agency. This would do wonders for our defense next year. On offense I have no clue what we could possible do. Our O-line is doing great for the most part but we still seem……uneventful? The good news is I think we get a top 15 pick in the draft.
That was a sobering game and it has made me change my tune, yet again. *Yes, I’m a fickle fanatic*
Weeks ago, I was at the PC needs to be fired or they need to trade RW. After last week, I said I am eating crow because the formula works (again).
After watching the Chargers game, I find myself doubting this organization again. To me, it’s pretty simple. The PC formula is outstanding when you play bad teams. When you play teams of equal or better talent, that formula needs to be performed to perfection or it otherwise relies on end of the game miracles.
And that is my biggest problem with PC…his offense, when confronted with an equal or greater opponent requires perfection to work. Philosophically speaking, I think the best way to build a team is to maximize the margin of error for winning. That applies to personnel and scheme. I don’t see PC doing that. I see PC giving the offense a razor thin margin between functioning like a machine and total failure. Think about it…when’s the last time we had a mediocre day on offense? It doesn’t happen. It’s either terrible or incredible. There aren’t many games of average play, which IMO, is a huge indictment on PC, Schotty, and RW.
I don’t know how to solve this other than simply saying – if you view your QB as a complimentary piece, then you can’t pay him like he’s the top 3 most important players in the league. It just doesn’t make sense. I’m not saying to abandon the running game. It takes time and patience to work. That said, when everything starts to look out of rhythm, this coaching staff is VERY slow to adapt. Very, very slow. And before you know it – we put our team in a position where on the last 3 drives – the offense must score 2 TDs and the Defense can’t give up a point or too much time. This goes back to the “small margin of error” point from earlier.
We seem to waste quarters and halves of football, not the occasional drive or two, which happens in the NFL. That’s a huge concern for me. We tend to always give away 1 quarter of football, even when we are “playing well.” The other good teams in the league don’t seem to give away that much football.
Anyways, I’m just venting. I’m sincerely worried we are just a middle of the road team without a 2nd round draft pick. And I just fear that we hang on to 7-8 win seasons and never truly get back to where we need to be. A complete side note – but man…the Rashaad Penny pick hurts. He is just not good. He runs like a UDFA plodder.
Don’t overreact to every win or loss. It’s a reset season.
Miss St’s Montez Sweat is such complicated eval. Doesn’t have great bend or flexibility, doesn’t look like a great athlete, but they just don’t make DEs with his length, 35.5″ arms, get off/jump and hand usage that continues to get better. Also his frame looks like it could easily handle another 20 lbs of so if need be.
Might not be a prospect in this class who’s combine I’m more interested in seeing.
+35.5
Paul Richardson out for the year with AC joint injury. Poor guy just can’t stay healthy.
Thank you for being a balanced voice of reason for all of us, Rob. We need it! Really hope Penny can build up some momentum if Carson is out for a couple of weeks.
Tbh we talk all about how we need to fine-tune the defense. And it’s true, we need some pieces on the DL. And we could really use a guy like Kendricks. KJ is an awesome player. Doesn’t really makes mistakes, overall solid. But Kendricks seemed a playmaker so much more. Bobby, KJ, and a guy like Kendricks and no team could avg 7+ rushing yards against us. 2 good DL (DE opposite of Clark and a DT next to Reed) and our D# would be amazing (OK, not sure about T2, maybe we could use an FS too).
BUT our “washed up”, inexperienced, etc D guys are still overachievers. They are fighters. They missed some guy, but still were able to pull themselves together and limit the Chargers O.
Our bigger problem is the offense. They can really be hot or freezing cold too. Carson can be amazing. But cmon, this O cannot depend only on him. If yes, then hell no to anything over a 15m/year contract to Wilson. There is some issue with this offense. Either Schotty, or Russ, or OL, or Pete. But there shouldn’t be this much of a crack between games or even quarters. Rams D is much better than the Chargers’. they played so much better against the Rams.
I would focus on the O#. Not in FA or in the draft. But I would try to find wth is wrong with it sometimes. These guys should roll much better. They should constantly put up 24-27+ points. They should be able to run more than 175 yards in every game (or at least 150, without Wilson). If the opponent loads the box, they should have an alternative short passing attack. Slow and steady wins the race. It’s OK to get 3-6 yards/play for most plays. If these are low risk plays, they can move forward while controlling the clock. It doesn’t matter if it’s a run or a short pass. And yeah, they can shoot some bombs 30-50 yards downfield too. But this run-run-run is too one dimentional. Yeah they use some missdirections and combo blocking, and stuff like that, but Chargers said: “Forget the pass at first down, and just defend the run”. And they sort of did that, which resulted in 2nd and 8 and after that 3rd and 6 (which is not the end of the world, but if it would have been a 5 yard pass for first down and 2-3 yard run for the second then 3rd and 2 looks much better and doable).
I love the run, and the way they play. But they need to have a really solid plan B, because they might need to score faster, and the opponent might be able to stop the run.
I don’t think a plan B is that important. Wilson played poorly and the run game wasn’t as effective. Bad day at the office