Chris Jones remains without a long term extension in Kansas City
In the latest Brock and Salk podcast, Brock Huard suggested the reason Jadeveon Clowney hasn’t been signed so far is due to a long-lasting knee issue.
This has clearly impacted his market, on top of Clowney’s own personal demands. Nobody has given him a big contract or even a compromise deal that was sufficient to break the stalemate. According to Jason La Canfora, the much-hyped ‘mega offer’ from Cleveland was only worth $12m a year.
It’s clear teams are interested — they’re just not willing to commit the big money. The Seahawks admitted, many times, that they wanted him back:
They also didn’t move on and sign someone else. They waited for Clowney and clearly wanted to bring him back — only on their terms.
Nobody has ever revealed definitively what the issue is. How much did the Seahawks offer? That’d be a great question to know the answer to.
Without that knowledge we can only speculate. An educated guess would be the following:
— The Seahawks did prioritise Clowney just as they said — but they also perhaps anticipated the lukewarm market that was on the horizon
— Relative to the limited interest elsewhere, they made an offer that was competitive but was also much more modest than Clowney expected
— The idea behind the modest deal was perhaps to protect themselves against the injury situation and presumably they thought after a period of reflection Clowney would could to terms with the situation and re-sign with the team he enjoyed playing for in 2019
— Instead, unexpectedly, he decided not to do this and has instead essentially taken himself off the market and refused to sign for the amounts being offered
— Because of the injury history and the fact we’re now in June and most of the money has been spent, it’s hard to predict what happens next because nobody is going to make a big offer now. Yet what amount is Clowney actually going to agree to?
It’s such a strange situation. I can’t recall anything like this. And as I’ve said before — I don’t think you can really criticise either party for the stalemate. Clowney is well within his rights to say no to any offer he receives and not be ‘forced’ into a deal he doesn’t like. Equally, the team doesn’t have to commit huge sums to a player if the market isn’t there and they have concerns about his longevity.
The criticism comes in Seattle’s inability to draw a line under it and move on. Had they signed, for example, Dante Fowler and Everson Griffen instead — it’d be a lot more understandable than what they’ve done (keep hanging on then try and solve the biggest problem on the team with journeymen).
As noted a few days ago — they only have about $5-6m to play with now. They can create more, either by cutting Branden Jackson or by asking players like Russell Wilson and Tyler Lockett to restructure their contracts. For that reason, there’s still some slight hope that Clowney could return albeit on a short-term deal.
They badly need to do something though.
A year ago they went into pre-season with a pass rush consisting of Jacob Martin, Cassius Marsh, Barkevious Mingo and Rasheem Green. L.J. Collier was injured and Ziggy Ansah was still recovering. The unit was inept. The current group is not as weak as their 2019 counterparts. It’s still a major stretch to think Benson Mayowa, Bruce Irvin and a couple of rookies are going to prevent this team having another year of toil and struggle on the defensive line.
They need an impact player. Add one to the current cast and while it still won’t be among the leagues top units — at least there’s half a chance of the pass rush not being a glaring liability again.
In 2019 the Seahawks were bailed out by the Clowney trade. It was a gift. The chances of history repeating are slim.
They might need to be a bit more proactive.
In researching the 2021 draft class so far — it’s not unfair to judge that it looks top heavy. It looks relatively strong at receiver and tight end but weak in the trenches.
You never get a clear picture a year in advance and a full college season is needed to get a proper angle on the depth and talent available. Yet who knows what the 2020 college season is going to be like? Will every team play? Will every player play?
Is it going to be harder to judge the prospects?
It might not be the worst thing in the world for Seattle to use the resource of their top pick in 2021 to try and find a player who can help now. A proven commodity.
We’ve seen big trades happen before and during a season recently. Laremy Tunsil, Minkah Fitzpatrick and Jalen Ramsey were all dealt (along with Clowney). The Seahawks essentially need to find their answer to Fitzpatrick. Not a safety per se — just a defensive impact player who can bring the group together.
Fitzpatrick provided a major impact in Pittsburgh. Their defense carried the team while they rotated quarterbacks and scrambled their way from top-five pick to playoff outsiders.
The Seahawks can quickly go from good to great by making a similar addition.
Because of Seattle’s limited cap resources this year, it’ll need to either be someone on a rookie deal in 2020 or someone who can be extended long term to lower their cap hit this year.
The obvious place to start is the franchise tagged players.
It’s hard to imagine the Seahawks targeting Yannick Ngakoue after drafting Darrell Taylor and signing Mayowa and Irvin. They need someone who can play across on the other side. The Jaguars also seem intent on repeating the Earl Thomas mistake — holding onto a player who you intend to part with, asking for too much and in the end having to settle for a third round comp pick.
Matt Judon is similarly only playing in the low 260’s. He also turns 28 this year and arguably doesn’t have the upside to warrant a long, expensive extension.
Leonard Williams and the Giants don’t seem any closer to a new contract. It’s not been a smooth ride for both parties this year and it’s debatable whether he has a long term future in New York. It’s also questionable whether he’s shown enough in his career to warrant an expensive contract to lower his 2020 cap hit.
The name that clearly stands out is Chris Jones. The Chiefs might struggle to fit him into their future given they’ll need to make Patrick Mahomes the richest player in NFL history soon. They’re also tied to Frank Clark’s massive contract for two more years and won’t be in any rush to move on from their top weapons on offense.
Equally, do they really want to trade such a vital player? Jones was a difference maker in the Super Bowl and they could easily believe keeping him for one more year and possibly winning back-to-back Super Bowls is more valuable than getting a high pick in the 2021 draft.
It would also take an enormous contract in the Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald range to sign Jones to an extension. He would have all the leverage in negotiations. He’s exactly the type of player Seattle needs — someone who disrupts the interior, plays well enough against the run and can win games on defense. He only turns 26 in July so he’s at a good age. It’s just hard to imagine the Chiefs parting with him and the Seahawks being prepared to pay him about $23m a year.
In terms of free agents set for 2021, forget about Joey Bosa. He’s a truly elite, star player on a team that needs stars to pay-off the move to LA. With a rookie quarterback in place they could franchise him multiple times if needed. He’s not going anywhere and probably quite likes being close to his brother.
The Packers aren’t going to trade Kenny Clark and the Steelers aren’t letting T.J. Watt or Cameron Heyward go anywhere.
Solomon Thomas hasn’t lived up to expectations and we’re unlikely to see the 49ers help out the Seahawks. Jonathan Allen was supposedly a target for Seattle in the 2017 draft but it’d be a bit surprising to see Washington deal him after investing so much to build up their D-line. He’s the type of player they need, however. There were concerns about a neck injury going into the draft which is why he lasted to #17 overall.
The options aren’t great — which could mean the painful wait for Clowney continues. Suspect knee or not — he’s still the best mix of talent, potential value and impact.
Going into the season without him though — or any further additions other than a cheap stop-gap defensive tackle — would make it very difficult for the Seahawks to take a step forward on defense.
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Let’s talk about Yannick Naggkoue Again
Not for a 1st or 2nd round pick though.
Rob already talked a out the fact that we drafted two similar players, not sure we need to talk about it again.
Jonathan Allen is an interesting name. His numbers look good. They have listed as a DE so a 5 tech I’m guessing? Regardless he is probably a 1 or 3 in Seattle. If you get him this year you have 2 years on the cheap. Does he cost a 1st? maybe a 2 and a 3 over 2 years? It’s a guy who i haven’t considered.
Washington wouldn’t trade him IMO.
I can’t see them trading him either. A guy who looked real solid in a couple of games I watched of theirs in ’19 (especially against SF) was D-lineman Matt Ioannidis. Good size (6’3″, 310) & still young (26). Coming off of seasons of 7.5 & 8.5 sacks. No idea if he’s a scheme fit for SEA but with WAS having some good d-line depth now, might be worth exploring.
He only signed a new deal with them a year ago. They can’t trade him, it would actually cost them nearly $9m for him to play in Seattle.
What about Ryan Kerrigan? He’s in the final year of his deal and WAS has drafted edge (Sweat & Young) in back-2-back years.
The Redskins have already stated he’s a big part of their plans and if he was going to be moved it would’ve been before the draft.
I made you sad a couple threads ago Rob, so it’s time you returned the favor I guess. The outlook isn’t good for acquiring an impactful pass rusher at this stage in the game.
If the Hawks can’t make a “bold and brash” move like giving Clowney a big contract, or trading for Calais Campbell, using a high pick in trade and then possibly signing the player to a long term extension seems way beyond what the org is currently willing to do.
If the Chiefs would even consider it I think PC/JS should do whatever it takes to get a deal done. Given his age and position I think Jones would be worth the draft capital and contract.
There’s no evidence to suggest they’d do whatever it takes to get it done.
They’re literally prepared to go into next season with Mayowa and Green as their defensive ends.
Agreed! I just don’t see them paying a DT or DE $20m+, even if they meet all the key criteria: 1) they are the right age, 2) they have been very productive in the past, 3) they have little or no injury history.
I get the feeling its Clowney or bust, or perhaps a player like Everson Griffen, who does not meet all of the key criteria, but is still a very good player.
I think it’ll be a cheap DT and pray one of those two are willing to come and play for whatever Seattle can offer.
I just dont see them paying a guy that much money as it’s not there style. The draft pick compensation I dont think would be an issue but the money would be.
Agreed.
I disagree partially with this statement. It’s true that John hasn’t signaled a desire to spend big money on the D-Line — but he also knows things we don’t know about the NFL’s future economy, Clowney’s knee (re Brock Huard’s comment), etc. He also said that they know there will be good players who are cap casualties later in the season. I think he’s hoping to find some gems in that group and be ready to scoop up some D-Line help there. I really don’t think they’re prepared to go into next season with the defensive ends currently on the roster.
Well it’ll be a first if the NFL starts cutting good players in August that are then willing to play for a couple of million bucks. It just doesn’t happen.
That’s the game you play when you have your roster filled out and are looking for a high value, low cost guy to really put you over the top. Not when you really need help after spending millions on depth players at other positions.
Counting on guys getting cut in training camp to fill vital areas of need is incredibly risky. And confounding when you consider how much cap room they started the offseason with.
It’s ridiculous that they still have holes to fill in June. And this idea that they can fill holes with rejects from other clubs right before the season starts is incredible. This is supposed to be a contending team!
I’m currently working under the assumption that the Hawks have Collier and Green at VMAC, giving them daily blasts of whatever The Hulk got.
Haha, let’s hope not. The whole “Sea-adderal” thing was bad enough. We don’t need to deal with “Sea-Hulks” (though that does sound a lot cooler).
On this subject, I prefer warped fantasy to reality at this point.
I think you are making the assumption that the Seahawks liked the free agency options like Fowler. There is a very real possibily that they simply didn’t like the other free agent options and as a result didn’t go after them even though they need help at DE.
When have I assumed anything?
Saying it’s fair to criticise them for not moving on, then offering an example, is not assuming they like someone.
Come on. Debate the topic and stop finding ways to have a go.
Mr. Rob Station
Thank you for your great article and hard work.
Carroll has coveted a dynamic 3 Tech DT for years, Sheldon Richardson, Malik McDowell etc. and never been able to quite find long term answer. Perhaps Chris Jones would be worth an answer.
Do you think Collier could ever become a dynamic 3 Tech rather than playing him 5 Tech and sliding into 3 Tech on passing downs?
I can’t see Collier ever working inside full time. Only reducing down on passing downs.
Timmy Jernigan is now available for maybe 2-3 M bucks.
Injury concerns are why his deal fell through with the Texans.
Could be worth kicking the tires, since “snacks” and others are looking for bigger dollars than that.
Rob: Agree on Collier. On early downs he is a 5 technique. Then on passing downs you can kick Collier inside to generate an interior pass rush.
Collier is not big enough to be a run-stuffing interior defensive tackle. Rob as usual a great article. Thanks
I am also non-plussed that the SH’s haven’t moved on once the draft was imminent and they still didn’t have Clowney signed. I was so hoping they would get a deal done with Fowler. To not have solidified the interior or the edge at this point I would like to term as inexcusable, but I am just a fan after all.
Expecting the SH’s to pull a rabbit out of the hat for one of those 2 positions we might expect, but for 2 rabbits at this stage, well, forget-about-it.
With the Cards rising, the Rams at least holding, and the 9ers with Kinlaw and Aiyuk on board, this will not be a season to be waiting to fill in the holes at the last minute.
Please Chris Jones. He’s worth the big bucks in my opinion and fills a big need for this team. Hopefully the situation get’s more out of hand for the Chiefs and he or Mahomes forces a holdout.
Rob,
Why didn’t you mention aging veterans in your article? A few months ago you Mentioned the idea of trading for a Von Miller. Are there any other aging vets that could be a target?
The reason I didn’t include ageing veterans is because they’re neither on a rookie contract with a cheaper 2020 cap hit nor are they the types of player you can extend long term to lower the 2020 hit. They only have about $5-6m to play with now.
I haven’t posted a comment in weeks because I’m so frustrated and feel like I only have negative feelings to contribute.
Viewing the landscape the only salvage that seems plausible is getting Griffen for a year. Cut B Jackson and sign him. Seems you still need to cut D Moore (which matters not) or someone to get a DT signed too. I think if you did those two things, and get lucky with all the young guys, maybe you’re an average defense. Next off season you’re in as bad a shape pretty much, which is depressing.
Don’t know why so many people are hating on Moore.
Nothing against Moore, but there’s a salary cap, so I’d swap him for Griffen and a DT if I could
Just an update on my brother: he started opening his eyes a little yesterday, trying to track the nurse around the room. Still not responding to commands though. He’s moving his legs. They feel confident he can breathe on his own so they’re gonna try taking him off a ventilator. He always has, but he’s fighting.
Excellent, that sounds like good news. We’re all thinking of him.
Thank you. And thank you for letting me do that and giving me, and others if needed, the outlet to do so.
Good stuff Vol. Keep us posted. We’re all pulling for your brother and You.
Excellent news.
FWIW, sent a note to the mom, picked flowers for the girlfriend, cooked up some chicken/rice/livers for the old dog just to let them know that I love them.
Says a lot about you that in your time of sadness, you were of service. Thank you for the timely reminder to stay grateful, take nothing for granted.
I…I don’t know what to say to that. Incredibly touching honestly. I’m glad you took the time to do that. How old is your dogg-o?
Least I could do + say.
Collie rescue is almost 15.
Awww. My dogg-o was 16 when he passed. Black Lab. Haven’t got another one since. Bought him for $25 lol.
LOL.
Through love, loss and life, stay strong, my man.
this is good stuff to read you guys. small acts of human decency are really needed these days.
i live down in LA, and it’s been a really down week with everything that’s going on. best hopes to your brother Volume12.
Well said man.
Oh man. That is great news. I lit up when i saw this. You’ve been in my thoughts for a few days. Hope he continues to get better.
Been sending prayers your way and will continue to do so. Glad to hear of at least a couple rays of light shining through the clouds.
I’ll definitely be sending Prayers out for you and your family
Excellent to hear V12.
I think this is a fair article/POV. I continue to think that the Clowney situation is a really strange one – and agree that the Hawks were caught flatfooted by it all – and failed to have an adequate plan B.
maybe the knee issue is a partial explanation – though it didn’t seem to hinder him last year – at least that we know. and, it’s worth noting within the speculation – that they’re a lot better at fixing knees than they used to be. ‘career-ending’ injuries are now season-ending. You don’t hurt your knee worse than Jaylon Smith did, and now he’s an all-pro.
still holding out hope that they figure it out with him.
What we have here is a bunch of people expecting miracles with limited money available.
We have our franchise QB. We have our franchise MLB. After that you have to build an ENTIRE roster. It’s impossible to have premier players at every position in this league. It’s set up that way. How in the hell do you have excellent players at every position and fit it under the cap?.
The Hawks were fortunate in 2012. They had a great draft, got everyone on the cheap. Now that has not only caught up to them but has passed them. Every team in the league copied them. That is impossible to duplicate now. You can’t have everything at the same time.
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/an-alternative-look-at-what-seattles-off-season-couldve-been
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/how-seattles-future-cap-space-shouldve-provided-flexibility
Outside of Wilson and Wagner, they don’t have a top 10 player at any position.
Combined cap hit of Wright, Olsen, Irvin, McDougald, Myers, Mayowa, Iupati, Hyde: $40 million.
They haven’t drafted well and have overpayed for production/talent.
I respectfully disagree mishima. We have some very good players on our team besides Russ and Bobby (Lockett, Metcalf, Dissly, Duane “the Rock” Brown, Diggs, Griffin, McDougald, KJ, etc), we just don’t have them on the DLine except for Reed. It takes a team to win but we have good players sprinkled throughout the roster. That’s why the were 11-5 last year and can do that again this year. To make the jump to the SB needs additional players to get us there but don’t underestimate what we have right now.
I didn’t say we don’t have good players.
It’s as simple as this — Seattle’s defense, collectively, isn’t good enough. Especially the pass rush, which was inept last season and doesn’t look any better and might even be worse this year.
It doesn’t matter how many top-10 players they have overall. All that matters is they haven’t done enough to fix the glaring D-line issue.
OK.
Not a critique of you, but I’ll try to dive into this a bit.
-Carson: probably borderline top 10
-Duane: close to top 10 LT, if not a top 10 LT
-Dissly: sample size too small of course, but I’m not sure there are 10 TEs I’d swap him for
-Neither Lockett or DK is a top 10 WR, but they’re probably a top 10 duo
-Poona: not sure there are 10 1-techs that I would take over him
-Quill: probably a top 10 or borderline top 10 cb right now
-Diggs: top 10 FS
-Dickson : if his normal is somewhere between his 1st team all-pro rookie season and mediocre 2nd season he is a top 10 punter
They spent $60m this off-season.
Nobody ‘expected miracles’. You’re just trying to deflect legitimately raised concerns and making excuses.
The options are limited to none. Jones is going to require a King’s ransom to trade for and sign. Others you mentioned won’t be traded. Just to day dream, other options like Hicks or Vita Vea are not going to be traded and won’t be cheap. How about Atkins after a down year in 2019? I would be fine with packaging our 1st plus more to trade for a top player (a good idea considering our last few 1st round picks).
Really curious about the offer we put in front of Clowney. If Cleveland’s offer was the biggest so far at $12M, what did we offer? I thought I read ours was 2 years at $13M each. Was that ever confirmed?
Nothing has ever been confirmed there. Only a lot of speculation.
This is off topic, but I’m just going to say it:
If the NFL and all the networks covering the games go full woke politics, I’m just going to tune out, including the Seahawks. I drive a forklift for a living. I wake up at 6:00 AM every morning, go to work, do my job, I come home, eat dinner, play some video games and go to bed.
I just want some sports to root for, and not to be told that I am a bad person if that is all I want. Goodell’s statement today, along with every major media company that covers the NFL, opens the door for the NFL to become overtly political.
I don’t like this. I don’t want to be in the middle of an ideological conflict when all I want to do is watch my team play football.
If the NFL is going to take an ideological position, and reinforce that position that one ideology is the official, sanctioned position of the NFL, then I choose the 3rd option: Tune out.
Sports is the one of the greatest cultural influence that a city can have. It’s a binding force. It’s a cultural identity for a city. Politics is the only force that can tear that identity apart.
The media is going to inject politics into the NFL now, more than ever. The healthy and fun rivalry of competition between fan bases will break down because of this. It will become half a nation yelling at the other half because a player said something, and you can’t avoid it because it will be on the front page of every sports section and the first segment on ESPN and NFL Network. One Player says A, another say B. The media will draw political battle lines, and God help you if you choose the wrong side.
I have a horrible feeling that when NFL football does resume, it will end up being a stage for politics and fully backed by media companies to do so. The cultural fabric that holds a city together through a common love of the team will be ripped apart because media will force the fan base of a city to choose sides for and against the players that represent that city. Fans will turn on fans from within, and when I am forced to side with A or B by the media, I’ll choose C:
I’m going to walk away.
Thing is though, this isnt at all new. Sports, particularly in the US, has always and will always have a connection to Politics.
From Jackie Robinson breaking the colour barrier in baseball, to Muhammad Ali walking away from years of his prime to stand up for something he believed in, to John Carlos and Tommie Smith raising a fist on the podium at ’68 games, and of course CK kneeling during the anthem.
In all these instances people made the same arguments you’re making now, that the games will be ruined by the injection of politics and that people would lose interest and be pitted against one another. In reality the opposite happened, sports continued to be popular and (in time) most people came to see the protesters as being vindicated in their actions.
Athletes and sports media members have the right to use their platform to speak on issues they believe in, just as you have the right not like it. But all I’ll say is that if this ruins sports for you, I dont understand how you’d made it this far.
There’s nothing wrong with a working class guy voicing some concern that the one thing in his life that provided some escapism might not offer that same opportunity.
Take this in the nicest way possible, but if you stop watching you won’t be missed.
Kaep was on the right side of history and the NFL is only now coming to realize that he was right all along. They blackballed the man and he was right at the time and he remains right today.
Sports in the United States have always been inherently political – from the national anthem(never understood the need for the national anthem in domestic competition), to purchased military involvement, to sports built on black talent, to the previous exclusion of black players.
Telling people ‘they won’t be missed’ is not right.
KD is allowed an opinion. And he is allowed to share that opinion.
Time will tell if Kaepernick was in the right side of history. I doubt if Kaepernick had the judgment to determine that—remember he’s the guy who showed up in Miami with cops-as-pigs socks. Way to impress in that job interview. But maybe you’re right, Darnell.
I’ll tell you you’re dead wrong about Kaep being blacklisted though. Teams would sign addicts and wife punchers if the guys could play. They’d have signed Kaep, if he was actually good at going through his progressions. He was found out. Not good enough for the few teams who needed a QB AND had the cap room. And his asking price? Wasn’t it 15 million? For a backup?
Let’s see if Cam Newton is signed. If he isn’t, it’s also not political.
If the NFL starts with the kneeling disrespect garbage again then I am simply going to stop watching and cease to care. Kind of like the NBA thing once the Seattle Supersonics ceased to exist. I want to watch sports for sports, not BS politics! There is more than enough of that crap on every other channel which I purposely do not watch because of that. My dad was a military vet and seeing that kneeling garbage gets on my nerves! I will watch NASCAR or something else where the sport is the focus, not politics. I will start watching again, maybe, once that garbage is stopped and football is the focus again. If not, I have no problem tuning out permanently. Sad state of affairs for football these days.
I support the opinion that KD expressed. I am just an average guy. For me sports is escapism. Support of a team is unifying with other fans, no matter what their politics. A perfect example of that is the support some of you gave Volume12 earlier this week. I don’t know who he is, what his politics are, or what his skin color is, and don’t care. The fact that he is a Seahawks fan is enough for me to support him. I tune in to games on TV and this web site to get away from politics. If I want politics from either political side, I will go to a political website or blog. I went to the Field Gulls website three days ago, and every article was about politics. It turned me off and I will not be going back. Please keep the political stuff out of support for the Seahawks, and off of this blog.
A quick reminder to stay on topic please. I’ve allowed a few comments but I’m starting to worry that this could turn into a big political debate. This is strictly a football forum.
Checks SDB after over a week of protests for an escape…
Reads the comments section…
Leaves SBD…
I have allowed about four comments but just before your post I noted to the community that I want people to stay on topic.
This is a football forum.
Thanks Rob!
I haven’t been on the blog for almost a week so I checked the bottom for the latest comments. Seeing the political posts dissuaded me from staying on the blog. Political posts, even NFL/sports related, have a time and place. After having been thoroughly depressed by an entire week plus of Twitter in total nuclear meltdown, I was hoping for a more sports focused escape here.
This will certainly remain a place to discuss football.
Players kneeling is about protesting injustice and violence not the disrespect of the military. America is supposed to be about freedom of speech and equal protection under the law. Exercising those rights is about as American as you can get in my option. In any event, even if folks feel otherwise we need to get away from walking away just because we don’t agree. Listening and discussing is the only way to understand each other and hopefully find a middle ground. And if you don’t want to listen, then at least consider giving players the room to peacefully protest for a few seconds before they are putting their bodies on the line to represent our team and city and still have that fun and escape that we all love. Go Hawks.
A MESSAGE TO ALL PEOPLE
“Something happened on Christmas Eve in 1914 in the trenches, WWI, during the battle of Ypres. WWI was the most sickening of wars, a world of death and destruction and fire and pain and mud and suffering. And as the British prepared for an attack that Christmas Eve they heard the Germans, their enemy across the way and they heard the Germans laughing and singing Christmas carols. And eventually the Germans called out “come on over Tommy” which was slang for a British soldier and they said “we won’t fire at you” and eventually the British cautiously started to head over and the Germans came out and started to head over, they head toward each other and eventually they all met in no man’s land. When they got there they talked and they laughed and they sang and they joked and they told stories and the legend is they even played soccer. And most important at that moment they saw each other as humans, as fellow human beings and eventually as the morning came on they all went back to their trenches and when they got back to their trenches they put down their weapons they sat there and they yelled jokes back and forth and they didn’t fight. And for a couple days there was peace, and the soldiers thought to themselves “what are we even fighting for? How did we end up here? and why are we killing each other?” and these soldiers on both sides the Germans and the British realized that their supposedly monstrous enemy, they were just other men, other men with different backgrounds and different cultures and different languages but they realized that their enemy were just men like them. They realized that they were all people. And on the third day the Germans were ordered from high command to shoot their machine guns and so the Germans told the British what time they were going to shoot and they said they were going to shoot high so the British should get low and take cover around that certain time to make sure nobody got hurt. And that’s what happened. The Germans shot high and no one got hurt. And another couple days of peace went by but then an order came from the British headquarters, and it said anyone found fraternizing with the enemy would be court martialed and if they were not fighting the enemy and they were found guilty of that they would be executed. And the generals got their way, they got what they wanted, and that night the war, the horrendous war on that patch of land commenced again and the bombs and the mortars and the fire and the bullets they all came to extract their toll and destroy and maim and kill these men on both sides. And that is an awful end to a beautiful story, it takes that beautiful story and turns it into a nightmare but in that story there’s a glimpse of hope. The hope is that we as human beings can see other people as human beings, and I know we can, and I know it’s not always easy but we need to do this, on both sides of the trenches. And if you’re a protester looking at a police officer or looking at a national guard soldier, please take a moment to remember that that police officer or that soldier is a son, or a father, or a mother or a daughter, or a brother or a sister. Remember that that soldier or that officer is a person and if you are a police officer or you’re a soldier and you’re looking at a protester or even a rioter please, please remember the same thing that you are looking at a person. A person like you, a person with a family, a person with aspirations, a person with hope, a person with pain and sadness and joy and misery, a person with hate and a person with love. A person like you. Look, it can be easy to dehumanize others, and when we dehumanize we separate people from who we are from what we are and it becomes easy to hate them because they are different from us, well I’m telling you they are not that different. The person you are looking at, that is a person and yes they’re angry and yes they’re frustrated and yes they’re scared, and they’re tired and they’re fed up and they’re aggravated and they’re full of potential and they are deeply flawed. In other words they are a person, just like you, please remember that. Be safe out there and try to take care of one another.” ~ Jocko Willink
I apologize Rob, I realize this is a football forum. Just wanted to share a remarkable podcast from Jocko Willink “A MESSAGE TO ALL PEOPLE” I listened to this morning that very much ties into each and everyone of us as humans plus for all argument sakes it does reference a tiny sprinkle of soccer/football in the storyline;) It has nothing to do with politics and focuses on what’s really important in the grand scheme of things.
👍🏻
I am reposting this:
A quick reminder to stay on topic please. I’ve allowed a few comments but I’m starting to worry that this could turn into a big political debate. This is strictly a football forum.
I’m starting to wonder if a political operative(bot) has infiltrated the blog. First time I’ve seen posts from user names I’ve never seen…and they troll pure politics. If I don’t see clowney …it makes wonder…
i am starting to really miss quinton jefferson… never thought i’d say that.
I’m starting to miss Greg Scruggs…
Oh man Rob, you made me laugh so hard with that, then it made me incredibly sad 😭
I’ve had that exact same feeling a few times this off-season. Not knowing whether to laugh or cry.
Tracking about 10-6 I think for 2020.
3-3 in division games
Loss @ ATL Week 1
Loss vs DAL Week 3
Loss @ BUF Week 9
That’s pretty much the range I think.
A year ago I thought 10-6 but with a specific prediction like that, I think wiggle room of a game either way is fair. The Seahawks went 11-5 but could easily have been 10-6 (or worse).
Russell Wilson, IMO, creates a floor of 9-7 as long as he plays to the level everyone has come to expect. A good quarterback can even get you to 12 wins. That’s been proven, even with major floors elsewhere. However, come playoff time, it’s very difficult to be a one-man crew. Especially when your entire philosophy is set up to produce a complete circle.
The thing that might help Seattle this year is a favourable schedule.
It really is. Somebody out there wrote a list of the QBs the Seahawks will face and it’s very favorable. Seahawks have a decided edge at QB in almost every game.
Matt Ryan
Jarrett Stidham or Brian Hoyer
Dak Prescott
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Kirk Cousins
Carson Wentz
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold
Dwayne Haskins or Kyle Allen
Kyler Murray 2x
Jared Goff 2x
Jimmy Garappolo 2x
The only real issue is… they haven’t been able to slow anyone down. Thus, Matt Schaub having a 470 yard day with 30 first downs. We could easily make Darnold and Jones look great on a given Sunday. I fear for the Matt Ryan game after Schaub dissected the defense. They had no answer for containing Murray and Sean McVay well and truly has their number.
Don’t take any of these guys for granted. Each can beat you and as demonstrated and mentioned by Rob, their backups can too. The Seahawks need to be on point for every single game next year and not get complacent.
Desperately need Jarran Reed and Poona Ford to have big seasons.
They do — but that’s not going to be enough. And if either got injured — at the moment you’re starting Mone or Christmas. Which is still remarkable to me, that this is where we’re at in June. Even if they add a Snacks Harrison type… it’s still massively underwhelming. They don’t have any difference makers on the DL.
we’re pretty focused on Clowney, for good reasons, but is it almost equally strange that a highly productive (albeit older) player like Griffen hasn’t signed either? You don’t hear anything about him having outrageous salary demands or something.
It is a strange situation. I can only assume it’s partly due to some of the issues he’s had in his life. Perhaps he is placing particular importance on where he plays for that reason — or perhaps teams are wary of signing him. The suggestion always was that he was waiting for the Clowney domino to fall. It could still be, possibly, that he signs in Seattle to finish his career with Carroll if Clowney goes elsewhere.
I’ve seen lots of bemoaning of the interior d-line…and i think it’s justified, however i have not saw any clear fixes or suggestions on who could be signed or drafted to appease this angst. If the hawks had drafted the guy from Alabama(calias campbell comp)…cant recall his name at the moment…that might please the fans, but does a late 1st or early 3rd round pick on the dline really tilt the field? Carrol and co…have seemed to shift to drafting and development on offense, and then letting the teeth grow long on defense. I believe that any shift in philosophy in drafting and developing is due to Russel Wilson’s contract. Less money means less time…so perhaps that explains the stubborn approach on defense…extending Wagner, Wright, even keeping Earl Thomas knowing they were going to lose him. Of course most fans like to think that the Patriots pulled it off somehow(cheaters) with a franchise quarterback and a cutthroat policy to all defensive players seeking that second contract, but they are proven cheaters, but they played in the weakest division in football, but. I will say this, if you have and pay a franchise qb, then you better have a no name defense.
They spent $60m. The whole ‘paying a franchise QB’ angle is so overblown. The Niners are paying a QB. They’ve managed to add players successfully – via trades, FA and the draft.
As for defensive tackle, it just highlights the problem. They’ve sunk masses amount of money into the roster and at some positions they have many names that are just camp bodies waiting to be cut dressed up as ‘competition’. At defensive tackle, they don’t even have enough bodies for a competition. How the hell have they got this many OL and TE’s and this many DT’s?? Especially when everyone knew the DL was the big problem.
I didn’t do a deep dive or anything but when I read about Emerson Griffen’s mental health issues, I came away thinking I hope he gets the help he needs … and thinking that signing him might not be in the Seahawks’ best interest.
Rob or others – can you help me out and explain the 5-technique? I always get confused as I’m used to the old DE. Is it a matter of their weight that determines who can play the 5 technique? For instance, Griffen, is he a 5-technique? I’ve often thought about Judon from BAL. Could he potentially play that position? Sorry if these are dumb questions, I just can’t figure out why certain guys can play the 5 and other aren’t suited for it. Thanks in advance.
A five technique is basically your 3-4 DE. Seattle uses 3-4 personnel in a 4-3 front. Since Michael Bennett its been more of an inside out rusher type. Someone with the size to play end on early downs then kick inside.
Griffen is a more traditional DE and Judon is only 260 ish and more suited to the edge.
Thanks Rob, I learn a lot on this site from your content and all of those who comment. I appreciate everyone here and look forward to more posts. The one thing I can’t understand is why they’ve stocked up on so many LEO types and not looked for players that can specifically play 5-technique?
You may or may not like the players, but the Seahawks have drafted 1st, 3rd,and 5th round players for the 5tech position over the last 3 years. That’s s fair bit of draft capital.
My guess is that they feel both Collier and Green fit best at 5-technique.
Also, Clowney would play there, and the anticipated him being back?
I get they wanted Clowney back for the 5-technique. I was more in the realm of why do we have so many LEO’s (Irvin, Mayowa, Taylor, Robinson) as opposed to true 5’s? It seems like it might be hard to utilize all of their specific talents when you’re rotating players in and out at the LEO and then having to settle on Collier or Green as your only option at the 5. I was thinking more in the lines of what happens if Clowney doesn’t sign, who can we get that’s a true 5? Thx for responding.
Irvin will not play exclusively Leo. He’s said he has been told he will play a lot of LB.
Mayowa is nowhere near a 60-70% of snaps player.
Taylor and Robinson are picks to develop for the future.
My guess is they planned to have Clowney bolstering green and Collier at 5T.
I just made myself sad again.
I doubt Irvin plays much LEO at all.
So I decided to look at teams that will finish in last in their divisions, except NFC West, and see if they are any potential trade targets for the D-line.
AFC
North- Bengals: Carlos Dunlap and Geno Atkins. Dunlap will have 1 year left on his contract with a 12 Mil cap hit after this seasonf I remember correctly, could give him 2-3 yr extension, since he is in his early 30s. Atkins will have 2 years left on his contract after this season, but cap hit for both years is 14 mil. Don’t think Seattle will make that commitment
South- Jacksonville: They already cleaned house except Yannick, but with 4 LEOs on roster and Yannick demanding 20 mil per year,it doesn’t fit Seattle’s M.O.
East- Patriots: Unknown. Only defensive lineman who was successful outside Pats system is Chandler Jones, so most likely pats D-Line wouldn’t succeed in Seattle system.
West- Raiders- currently building d line with Ferrell, Crosby, and Hurst and will probably look for one more interior defender
NFC
North- Lions: Same as Patriots
South- Falcons: Grady Jarrett would have 2 years left after this season but cap hits are 20 and 23 Mil,
Apologize for cutting the comment short. Working with P.O.S tablet. As I was saying with the cap hits being 20 and 23 mil, Seattle wouldn’t commit.
East- Redskins: taking the 49ers route by building d-line with first round talent Payne, Allen, Sweat, and now Young along with Kerrigan who they refused to move.
If Seattle wants to go the Clowney route, that’s fine but you need a partner who can benefit from his decoy role and Mayowa/Irvin are not the right partners.
What do you mean by decoy role Donny?
Basically his role is to take on double teams, which leaves one on one situations for the remaining d lineman. What’s frustrating is Clowney thinks he is like Aaron Donald, a player who gets the double team, beats the double team, and finishes with a qb hit or sack. Clowney did that only once on Monday Night Football against the 49ers and in that situation he took on a year 2 tackle and a guard who was almost considered a bust until he got on the 49ers roster. Now I will give Clowney some slack for dealing with injuries and playing through them. A decoy isn’t worth 20 million average and all 32 GMs would agree with me. If I was Clowney, I would probably sign a one year in Philly because of Fletcher Cox. He would be a good partner who could absorb double teams and give Clowney opportunities to make plays.
Donny, you spouted this decoy nonsense before and I already addressed it. Please stop.
I know they needed an OL in 2016 when they took Ifedi and it’s easy to look back on it and say this now, but wow Chris Jones was sitting right there. Pretty crazy he lasted all the way to 37.
Wow that 2016 drafts had some STUDS last to R2 and R3.
34. Jaylon Smith
37. Chris Jones
45. Derrick Henry
47. Michael Thomas
69. Yannick Ngakoue
81. Austin Hooper
This is a damned if you do damned if you don’t question. But has there been a legitimate change/adaptation to Carroll’s philosophy since Wilson’$ rookie contract ended? Yes I know the obvious changes, but I’m wondering whether Carrol and js have adjusted their core belief…compete …to the reality that one player went from being the least paid on their roster to the most by a large margin. I see a lot of draft picks fading away with slim opportunities to learn and thrive on the field. Delano, Thompson, underwhelming rookie years from bbk and Barton, amadi, and Blair. Russel Wilson is my favorite player ever, yet I just wonder if a franchise qb and a “compete” program fits?
They just spent $60m.
The ‘expensive franchise QB’ dynamic is a red herring.
They simply haven’t done a good enough job acquiring and developing talent.
Since the title of your piece is, — “Is there anyone the Seahawks can Trade for?” — wanted to share that I believe there’s always players available for trade and teams willing to trade them. The problem for the Hawks is likely the price in draft capital and more importantly cost.
Any of the players who can really help the pass rush will all require significant draft resources in trade, and large, expensive extensions. PC/JS seem very hesitant to sign DL players to top of the market contracts, so its unlikely to happen.
The days of signing Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril type players on the cheap are probably in the past, with prices for top shelf pass rushers rising dramatically in the last several years!
Frustrating that they didn’t fix the DL in free agency and/or the draft. Now, they might have to trade picks to address the issue, stay competitive.
IMO, with so many holes to fill next year (OT, CB, RB, maybe TE, LB), that move would be shortsighted. Don’t want to end up the Rams.
*Meant as reply to Simo*
I agree its been a frustrating off season, as it just doesn’t seem like they adequately addressed the main need. Irvin and Mayowa should be complimentary pieces, and short-term ones as well.
We all hate having to give up significant draft capital in order to fill some holes, but it may be necessary. I’m just not sure there’s any great deals just waiting to fall into their laps, like Clowney last year. They have made some great trades, but there was also Harvin, Graham, Richardson, etc, that didn’t pan out very well.
I’m equally concerned about their recent draft history. They just haven’t had as much success as back in the early days of PC/JS. I’m of the belief successful teams build through the draft and fill a key piece here or there in free agency. Our drafts haven’t been stellar recently so there’s more pressure to improve through free agency and trades, and those methods are costly!
That’s the double-down impact of not addressing pass rush before the draft this year.
I did a comment on the “alternate offseason plan” Rob up, getting Clowney and Campbell. Freed them up to pursue a number of opportunities to fill long-term spots with cheap talent.
The opportunities to fill future holes were right there. Lots of options available.
Bookend OT’s. One of the top RBs. A #3 WR who could give them future options with Lockett. And still have picks left to get Parkinson, Robinson, maybe even Lewis.
Nothing they did in free agency will matter without improved DL play.
Where’s the beef?
We’ve lost Q Jeff, Al Woods and Clowney. We’ve added Bruce (SAM), Mayowa and two rookies (LEO).
Three guys who were very effective at run defense are gone, and we’ve replaced them with 4 guys who are not.
Frankly I’m as concerned about our run defense as much as our pass rush. Mone played 89 snaps last year. Christmas is a 6th rounder who’s never played a snap. We have to sign another DT, right?
Absolutely have to. Going into a season with only 2 DTs with significant NFL snaps is neglectful. Even at this point of the season they need to have one or two more on the roster and then pick up a late summer addition.
Watching the Fail Mary game I was struck by how much size and toughness they had on the DL. Makes sense to add an injection of speed in Irvin (then Avril the next year).
99 Alan Branch DT
79 Red Bryant DE
97 Patrick Chukwurah DE
94 Jaye Howard DT
51 Bruce Irvin DE
69 Clinton McDonald DT
92 Brandon Mebane DT
98 Greg Scruggs DE
My post above originally expressed same concerns.
Run defense lost Clowney, Woods, QJeff and pass rush replaced Ansah with Taylor/Mayowa.
IMO, they had the cap space and draft picks to add 4 special talents to the DL. Now, will settle for marginally improved play(ers) at the 1, 5 and LEO.
Hope: Wagner/Wright stay healthy, irvin can still SAM, Taylor is DRoY, Brooks/Diggs/Blair bring some thump, Amadi picks up nickel CB and allows them to get out of base. Fear: Without DL help, won’t matter.
So Mike Florida of PFT reported that the Cleveland offer was 18 mil average and the last Seattle offer was 1 yr 15 mil for Clowney. Best offer Seattle can do at this point is 1 yr 10 mil with restructuring a portion of Wilson’s base salary. Clowney’s thought process is mind boggling at this point.
*Mike Florio
Link?
Where did you see that? I read all of Florio’s stuff and don’t remember seeing that.
https://247sports.com/Article/Jadeveon-Clowney-NFL-free-agency-Seattle-Seahawks-Cleveland-Browns-offer-147938397/
Florio knows sweet FA.
Thanks Donny. I wonder if we had offered $18M over 2 years if he would have taken it.
My brother passed away at 11. Love you forever little bro. Then, now, and in the next lifetime. I look forward to the day we can be together again. RIP Shane-O ❤
So sorry to hear this, Volume12. May he be at peace now.
Sorry for your loss.
Thoughts, prayers and condolences. Here for you.
So sorry to hear that. I hope that the extra days gave you a chance to say everything you wanted to.
Hold him in your heart until you can hold him in heaven.
My sincere condolences to you.
Sorry to hear that V12
That’s awful. He’s resting now.
V12 – So very, very sorry. So very sorry.