Podcast: Reacting to the Seahawks draft class

Kenny and I run through Seattle’s draft class in full before a bonus edition of ‘the running back debate’ to finish (before my internet dropped out to leave an unsatisfying conclusion to the conversation).

Check it all out below…


  1. James

    For those who have fallen prey to this nonsense about Shaquem’s 4.38/40 time being a mistake, how do you explain this? This is visual proof that Shaquem ran faster than Saquon Barkley’s 4.40, unless you believe that time was also a mistake? But here it is… Chark, 4.34, Shaquem 4.38, Barkley 4.40, Calvin Ridley 4.43.

    And just to confirm, there is another super-imposed video of Shaquem and Shaquill doing their 40’s. We know for a fact that Shaquill ran a 4.38 last year (unless you believe that was also a mistake), and in the overlay Shaquem beats his brother by a hair, again confirming his 4.38.

    For anyone interested in facts and not click bait, there it is.


    • UKAlex6674

      All I know is that he is going to BRING IT next season.

    • Georgia Hawk

      If you break down the run frame by frame you can see the clock was started late, well after he was already out of the blocks. Supposedly the NFL acknowledged the mistake and all teams knew about it, but I dont know the validity of that. Superimposing the videos doesn’t really prove anything but a flat speed comparison, not the time. It doesn’t show the elapsed time for each or the frame by frame break down of when the clock started. I had doubts about his ability to replicate such a fantastic time during the combine. I chalked it up to an extreme adrenaline rush at the time, but this explains it just as well.

      All that being said, the dude is a fighter with incredible closing and game speed that shows up on film. I think he is going to bring some good stuff to the Hawks.

      • Mark Souza

        It’s definitive proof. Cameras run at a prescribed number of frames per second. If the images start at the same moment, then the superimposition is accurate frame by frame.

        • James

          Exactly, it is definitive proof. The clock in view is not the official clock. The official time is kept electronically on computer and only verified and made official upon review. The clock may be the reason the confusion arose in the first place, but the super-imposed video, if starting at the right moment for each runner, which this one does, is absolute proof of Shaquem’s time, because it is not stand-alone (which in theory could be subject to error) but places him alongside the other runners whose time is known. Clearly, he finished ahead of Barkley’s 4.40, so the 4.38 is legit. Allow the guy to be acknowledged for his accomplishment, instead of questioning it, even in the face of the evidence.

    • Ishmael

      40 trutherism, what a time to be alive

      • Kenny Sloth


    • cha

      I don’t get all the noise about this. 40 time is so overrated. Quem’s speed shows up on game tape just fine to me.

  2. Kenny Sloth


    Once more here’s the fan-run gofundme to replace Rob’s war-room casualty; his laptop, which I’m sure has brought many of us countless hours of enjoyment as well. Pitch in what you can, if you can.

    Already like 1000 bucks in 2 days. Well deserved, imo.

    • KingRajesh

      How do we know that the money will get to Rob? I’d be happy to donate if he set the go fund me up, but with somebody random at the helm? I’ve seen too many scams on that site.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Calgary Brad is Canadian so I automtically trusted him with my first born son.

        My biggest concern is Rob not accepting the blog aide ➕

      • Madmark

        Kenny been here to long to be a scammer. You are the true Kenny Sloth that posts all the time. right.

        • Kenny Sloth

          Well I am but I’m not running that gofundme. I recognize the guy is doing it, but I really don’t know him. It’s all in good faith for this community, but yeah I just thought I’d share it again to keep it alive till Rob figures out what he wants to do.

          • Kenny Sloth

            I have seen CalgaryBrad here a bunch of times. I’m not worried.

  3. dunderhead9

    I had never heard of the Penny guy, having read this blog religiously I knew the running backs options for the Seahawks were.
    1. Rojo
    2. Rojo
    3. Ronald Jones
    4. Chub
    5. Ballage
    6. Carry on Johnson
    7. the guy from Tennessee
    Gotta hand it to PCJS for sniffing out the leading rusher in college football!

    • Millhouse-serbia

      Well that is not true.

      Here is what Rob wrote november 1st:

      There are others to mention — Bryce Love, Derrius Guice, Damien Harris, Ronald Jones and Royce Freeman to name a few. The one I’d keep an eye on the most at the moment is San Diego State’s Rashaad Penny.

      He’s having a fantastic year with 1368 and 12 rushing touchdowns (plus 136/2 as a pass catcher). He has six career kick return touchdowns and he combines toughness, elusiveness and the ability to break off big plays. He’s in Seattle’s size bracket (5-11, 220lbs). He also talks well in interviews and is elevating his team to a strong season.

      I’m not sure where Penny will go in terms of round. We’ll need to see how he tests. Yet if the Seahawks did move down into rounds 2-3 to accumulate more picks, I wouldn’t bet against Penny landing on this team.

      • dunderhead9

        oh, I do remember the last time the Penny guy was mentioned, halfway thru the last college football season.

        it was obvious the whole time, the only guy to call it was Salk. reasons:
        Chubb and Sony were and are injured badly
        Guice is a wierdo
        Ronald Jones is too small
        Ballage was never gonna happen for obvious reasons
        Carry on runs to high
        Freeman was probably their next guy but who knows. Maybe a couple late round guys. Rojo would have been like a redo of Jimmy Graham, against what they are trying to do, be a power running team.

        • Kenny Sloth

          Freeman banged up and not physical

        • hawkdawg

          To be fair, Penny runs pretty high, too….

          • Dave

            Not where pad level counts, he leans forward and gets skinny through the hole. He gets tall after he’s in the open field distancing himself from defenders.

    • CharlieTheUnicorn

      Penny has been on the short list…. but as a 2nd/3rd round pick, not a first.
      My guy Chubb was the runner up according to some reports out of Seattle media, if they missed out on Penny. So, good news, the Blog wins again!

      • Saxon

        Bottom line: Rob does a terrific job identifying potential PCJS draft targets, but more should have been said about Penny. Of all the backs in this year’s class he was the most similar to Marshawn, in terms of breaking tackles and gaining yards even when blocking breaks down.

        No big deal. SDB gets it right most of the time. In Penny’s case, though PFF was all over it.

        • Rob Staton

          Stop comparing players to Marshawn.

          He’s nothing like Marshawn. Nobody is.

          I’m willing to own up when I’ve made an error. We talked about Penny. I directly quoted him as a likely target in November. I wish I’d held that thought for longer but so be it. That’s a lesson from this class.

          But let’s not pretend we just whiffed on the second coming of Marshawn. They’re completely different players.

        • Hawktalker#1


  4. Sea Mode

    Add South Carolina WR Deebo Samuel from the very beginning to the list of Seahawky targets! Just needs to stay healthy this year.

    Tomorrow Isn’t Promised: The Deebo Samuel Story

  5. EP

    As much as I can understand the arguments in the anti-RB camp, the beauty of that argument to my mind, is that you can never lose. If Saquon runs for 12,000 yards and wins 4 superbowls, the success can be and will be attributed to the QB or the defence. In most cases this will be true but it’s unfair as it allows us to completely disregard the need or the impact that a RB provides for a team.

    • Rob Staton

      Very good point.

      The anti-run crew often have a ‘gotcha’ moment when you say a RB can’t win a Super Bowl on his own, as if any position truly does that.

      I absolutely adore that the Seahawks essentially ‘trolled’ the anti-run brigade by stating fixing the run was their priority this off-season. God bless you Pete Carroll.

      • Brett

        And the cherry on top in trolling the twitter-verse … they selected a punter and traded up to do it!

        • Kenny Sloth

          Finally drafted a QB

          And went anti sparq and TEF on OL

          The Runaissance is real

          • 503Hawk

            “The Runaissance is real”. Very clever!

        • Simo

          Who trades up for a punter?? They must have heard some talk that one of the teams ahead of them were going to take him, so trade up for that punter. He could have a huge impact on the team for the next 10+ years, its a great pick if he’s as good as touted.

          I love that Pete and John march to their own tune, and could care less what the “experts” say.

          • Kenny Sloth

            Michael Dickson might be something special. All the buzz around him is he’s basically a pure modern punter with insane control, intelligence, and creativity Thats not really ever been seen at the position.

            • EP

              How many 5th round picks are almost guaranteed to make the roster? How many 5th rounders have the potential to be the best at their position? How many 5th rounders will make a boatload of Pro Bowls. Only one. His name is Michael Dickson and he’s going to punt shit out of this league. Seriously though the fact that we’ve drafted a guy in the 5th who will have a decent return is really nice. Who else would we have taken? What else do need that we haven’t snagged in UDFA.

              • UKAlex6674

                ‘punt the shit out of this league’ – best quote of 2018 so far!!!!

              • Simo

                Only wish we could have snagged the best young kicker out there as well. Like with other parts of the team, it’s a good approach to rebuild the special teams. Let’s have the best ST unit in the league next year.

                • Tecmo Bowl

                  Was thinking the same thing during the draft, then Minnesota traded up and took K Carlson right before us. Probably wouldve taken Jones anyway, never know.

    • Ishmael

      Spot on. It’s like all the people who bang the Jags for taking Fournette, or the Cowboys taking Elliot, as if those two didn’t completely change the attitudes of the teams they went to.

      • john_s

        The responses you will get is that Cowboys should have draft Jalen Ramsey over Ezekiel Elliott, which is a valid argument and for the Jags its that the defense carried the team,

        The top 5 teams in time of possession all made the playoffs and 7 of the top 10 made the playoffs.

        1) Philadelphia – 3rd in rushing
        2) Carolina – 4th in rushing
        3) Minnesota – 7th in rushing
        4) Pittsburgh – 20th in rushing
        5) Jacksonville – 1st in rushing

        The outlier of the top 5 is Pittsburgh but Le’veon Bell was a big part of the passing game (85 catches, 655 yards)

        Winning the time of possession battle is still important in the league and having a functioning running game is a big way of winning the time of possession battle.

      • Tecmo Bowl

        “It’s like all the people who bang the Jags for taking Fournette, or the Cowboys taking Elliot, as if those two didn’t completely change the attitudes of the teams they went to.” Ishmael

        100% A few years ago the anti-run argument was much stronger. Then Gurley, Elliott, and Fournette, now Barkley, hit the draft.

      • 80SLargent

        Yes. Yes. Yes.
        I’m a numbers guy as much as anybody, and I can understand quite a bit of the analytics the pocket protector wearing weenies use to devalue running backs.
        That being said, riddle me this:
        The average team runs the ball like 425-ish times per season. The “elite” backs in the league touch the ball like 300+ times a season (including receiving). Outside of the QB/C exchange, the RB still handles the ball more than any other player on the field.
        The anti RB/run game pundits want to say they’re not that important, or RBs are fungible. So there’s no benefit or difference in having a RB like Ezekiel Elliot touching the ball 300+ times versus a RB like Mike Davis (if he could actually stay on the field that long)? Again, over the course of a season and that many touches, that the difference between the two is negligible? Or we can just pick up any ol’ good RB in the mid-late rounds? Mike Davis was a 4th round pick by the way.
        Mike Davis doesn’t scare anybody. Ezekiel Elliot, defenses have to respect him, because he’s a threat to score every time he touches the ball; again, which is normally like 20 times a game. There is absolutely both tangible and intangible value in that.
        Everybody knows the QB is the most important player on the field. The game is all about making your team’s QB as successful as possible, and making the other team’s QB as unsuccessful as possible.
        Now my question is, does a rookie 4th round QB like Dak Prescott have the season he has, with Mike Davis instead of Zeke as his RB? Anyone with half a brain stem knows the answer to that. We all saw what Prescott looked like in year two when Zeke was suspended; not good – even with that O-Line and a “decent” back like Alfred Morris. Having a great RB is at least as beneficial – and I’d argue maybe even more so – than having a great WR, just based on the number of times they touch the ball. That doesn’t even take into account a RB who is also great in pass protection.
        It’s so unbelievable, we as Seahawks fans have seen it with our own eyes, what having a great RB can do for a team. This team has not been the same since Marshawn retired. He was a great back, and scared the crap out of defenses. He might not have been the home run threat that some backs like Elliot, but who really wanted to tackle that guy 20 times a game? His presence absolutely helped Russell Wilson, and thus, the team become extremely successful.
        Again, we’ve seen it with our own eyes, what has happened without a durable, elite RB. Again, football is about making your team’s QB as successful as possible. The past few seasons, Seattle has spent resources surrounding Wilson with receiving weapons like Graham. How has that worked out for them? Did that make Wilson better? Did that make the team better?….
        The best Wilson, and the Seahawks have been, were with “pedestrian” receiving weapons, and a certain Beast Mode RB. No amount of analytics can rationalize that away.
        While Penny is a different player than Lynch, he’s a north-south, durable bell cow type RB with home run ability. Teams are going to have to respect Seattle’s run game again, which is absolutely going to help Wilson, and the team, become more successful.

  6. Kenny Sloth

    Penny’s tape is so fascinating to watch in slo-mo.
    Does a lot of things really well, but is extremely raw.

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      What about him is raw? I’m not sure I know the nuances enough to know what to look at to identify that..

      • Kenny Sloth

        He runs like he’s returning kicks. Vision is definitely there and his agility is pretty good. He’s just got some technical issues like switching hands, pass pro, finishing routes.

        If those are the biggest issues though, it’s all coachable. The canvass is there.

        • Trevor

          I think some of it is because he was really only a one year starter.

          You nailed it. He really needs to learn the nuances of the position. On the positive side he was incredibly successful despite this and low mileage with is much bigger for RB than other positions.

        • Group Captain Mandrake

          Thanks for the clarification.

  7. Kenny Sloth

    Oohh Will Dissly’s draft call:

    JS “Is this uncle will?”

    WD “This is uncle will”

    JS “You’re gonna have to move all the way over to the east side we’re takin ya”

    WD “No shit”

    JS “No shit”

    • Rob Staton

      Classic moment

      • Coleslaw

        Right? He knew it was Seattle too

    • Tecmo Bowl

      Lol missed that

    • Edgar

      I don’t want to read into anything but………anyone else notice Pete’s dismissive laugh before saying ‘yeah, go hawks’ back? I swear it’s a tell on his feelings for Wilson;)

      • Rob Staton

        I thought he liked Will’s ‘go hawks’!

  8. Kenny Sloth

    Hey….. Is this a leak of Seattle’s 2012 horizontal boards?


    Is this common knowledge cuz I’ve been looking fir an example of their board for a while.

    Not sure what it is or how it’s useful…

    • Kenny Sloth

      Pete says “you thinkin point guard?”

      Dot. Dot. Dot.

    • Sea Mode

      No, way too many names bunched together. Those are the depth charts of each team. You can see Arian Foster, Ben Tate, and James Casey as the Texans RBs, for example. That is one of the side walls in the draft room.

      I’ll see if I can dig something up for you of their board. I clipped a bunch of screenshots together a couple years ago, but never put out the finished write-up.

  9. Kenny Sloth

    Michael Dickson “is bringing techniques we haven’t seen guys even try” PC

    ‘worked him out in crap weather and he looked fine’ JS

    • Kenny Sloth

      Schneider mentions LeCharles Bentley connection to Jamarco Jones pick.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Rasheem Green was pissed he fell, seemed like Flowers and Martin were too.

      • Kenny Sloth

        Schneider says about McGo “his arm talent is different release points” “there’s a category now called off the spot” and he was second between Mayfield and Darnold.

        Had to learn a new offense under Norv Turner last year.

    • Ishmael

      I like that people seem to think he’ll be competing with Jon Ryan. Yeah nah.

      Been having a look at his highlights, and he does have a pretty weird technique – hardly any follow through. Does put the ball down in the 20, in the 10, over and over again though. Placement is fantastic as well. Should actually know how to tackle too, which is a handy little bonus.

      • Kenny Sloth

        He’s curving it and controlling the bounce directly sideways and just really mind blowing stuff.

        His like physical awareness is so exceptional. I want to see the rest of his punts.

        • EP

          Another thing you can be sure of is that he’ll be tough and won’t balk with some athletes running at him. Aussie football is a pretty violent game as well. Guys that play that are super fit, run around for a long time and then boot a ball miles up in the air, it’s not easy to do, especially under pressure.

    • cha

      I was at the draft party Saturday and the face Wyman pulled when they announced the pick was priceless.

      I told him ‘it must be a damn good punter they just got’ and it looks like they did!

  10. Kenny Sloth

    Rosen and Kirk are currently being taken under Fitzgerald’s wing.

    Aaron Donald is handspeed training with kitchen knives

    Richard Sherman is tellin all our secrets.

    And Im Fired Up

  11. KingRajesh

    You guys remember when Seahawks twitter and other people who pretend to have insider knowledge (LOL Optimum Scouting) believed that we would draft a QB early despite having desperate needs elsewhere?

    Man, those guys who must not be named really didn’t end the draft looking so good.

    • Ishmael

      No no no, they didn’t get it wrong though. John Schneider did. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the same unparalleled access to YouTube highlights, and therefore isn’t able to properly evaluate talent like Draft Twitter. If he didn’t draft who Seahawks Twitter wanted, that’s not their fault.

  12. Mark Souza

    An interesting podcast Rob, which got very contentious at the end. To the question of whether this draft will be recognized as putting the Seahawks back into contention, I’m with you. I don’t think this draft makes us a playoff team next year.

    But I think when we look back, we’ll recognize that this draft was a big step forward, much like the 2011 season when we brought in Marshawn. We went 7-9 that year, but the writing was on the wall that we were getting better and big things were coming. I think the 2018 will be a major factor in fixing the run game. I also think we may look back and realize this draft gave us the scariest CB tandem in the NFL – 2 shutdown corners in the Richard Sherman mold. And we picked up a generational punter, someone who could turn out to be our Ray Guy – a field position changer, and his first real game will be at Mile High, which will be how they describe his punts. We’ll see who’s laughing then.

    The 2019 draft will be all about the defense, stud linemen, LBs, and perhaps safety and WR. And in 2020, the Seahawks will be pushing for a Super Bowl. And we’ll look back on the 2017, 2018, and 2019 as the basis for a new Legion. I can hardly wait.

  13. H

    I have to say Rob, I do have a greater deal of enthusiasm for Shaquem as a starter than you do. He has very similiar measurables to Telvin Smith. Smith is a bit taller but a bit slower (although that is apparently a bit controversial) they have very similiar length and the weigh about the same. They were also both drafted in the 5th round.

    I see no reason why Griffin couldnt develop into a Will linebacker in the mould of Telvin Smith. Someone who you’ll have to keep clean but will be a terrific sideline to sideline playmaker if you do.

    Ill be fine with the pick if he does just become nickle linebacker and special teams ace, but I see that as his floor not his ceiling.

    • Rob Staton

      The problems will all stem when he has to hold down his side of the field against the run. Unfortunately it’s an ‘it is what it is’ situation. Shaquem could quite easily be a liability in that area. Teams are going to get into him. How is he going to hold them off, jolt, punch, disengage? His whole game is predicated on speed. KJ Wright succeeds not because he’s fast (he’s not). He’s got incredible length, discipline and he’s as physical as any other player on the field. He holds down his side of the field. You can’t target him in the run.

      Shaquem’s speed and relentless approach will be an asset. But it’s not enough to make him a full time starter. And I doubt he’ll ever get to that point. But it won’t matter because as a blitzer, spy, nickel LB and special teamer you’ll get more than enough from a R5 pick.

  14. Trevor

    The way I look at Day #3 for the Hawks was simple.

    They got 2 of the best players in the draft at their position and the most energetic / positive locker room influence in the draft.

    Dixon (Punter)
    Dissly (Blocking TE)
    Griffin (Energy +++)

    If they got nothing but those 3 guys on Day #3 it would be a B+ day #3.

    Add in a backup OT (J Jones), an ultra athletic prototype Hawks developmental CB, an athletic developmental QB (Mcgough) and a flier on a productive tough as nails Edge Rusher (Martin) has to be an A grade for Day #3 doesn’t it?

  15. NickW

    Good grief Rob, no sense in bickering with Kenny. He will never change the way he feels about running backs. Wow. He is very closed off and seems very negative to me. Glad you keep an open mind and are so insightful. Thanks for everything you do Rob. I think you have a better grasp on the FO than any other blogger/website.

    • Rob Staton

      Thanks Nick

    • GerryG

      I had to turn it off… I couldn’t listen to him for another second, and I like Kenny

  16. FuzzyLogic

    I have simply never heard anybody devalue the RB position like Kenny just did. It’s rather shocking considering Kenny knows how important the running game is to the Seahawks. Maybe most other teams in the NFL don’t need a great run game, but dammit Kenny….we do.

    My personal opinion is that running and defense can win you championships with an average/above average QB. Did the Giants do the right thing in drafting Barkley #1…..Hell ya they did if they want to win a SB anytime soon. Isn’t that the point?

    I feel for you Rob. I would’ve needed a beer or two after hearing Kenny ramble on and on and on about the RB position. And now I’m done rambling:)

    • Brandon

      To be fair to Kenny, his point about the benefit of cost savings having a QB on a rookie deal are spot on. He also seemed to soften his stance regarding drafting a RB at the *end* of the 1st round.
      I can buy into the idea that you never count on drafting at #2, and if you can get a franchise QB, you go for it, as the value is unmatched.
      One thing to consider is, that perhaps the Giants didn’t actually like any of these QBs.

      • Dave

        I see Kenny’s point but that was a rather awkward debate. Both points are valid. RBs and QBs are both important. Giants have Eli and their team got a lot better. They’re aiming for the Super Bowl while they still have Eli. For the Giants, this was a no brainer. Sam Darnold will not win them any more games in 2018-2019, while Saquon will.

    • RealRhino2

      There are just a lot of different arguments to deal with in that one issue that I think people often talk past each other and it’s thus hard to change people’s opinions. BTW, I love Kenny, he might just be a blunt person (like the people in my family) and present things in a way that seems belligerent to some.

      The one thing that struck me as a problem with Kenny’s primary argument (which seems to be the value of a RB in terms of salary, as opposed to whether you need to pick one early to get a good one, or the importance of a good running game in general) is that he is basing “value” by looking at *2nd contract* salaries.

      IOW, if the average of the top 10 WR salaries is $15 million, and the average of the top 10 RB salaries is $6 million, then obviously the league doesn’t value RBs nearly as much as WRs. Also, since you are paying that 1st round RB near the top of the RB salary scale, he has to be near the best to be “worth it.” But as I said, the problem is that you are comparing rookies to guys on their second contract. And because of the spectacular wear and tear that RBs take, not many get big second contracts. But you are then comparing the value of a mint RB to a worn down RB. It could be that the league values RBs in the first four years of their career just as much as WRs in the first four years of their careers. And that the best RBs aren’t the ones in their second contract, but still in their first.

      In fact, if you instead judge how valuable the league thinks “fresh” RBs are compared to “fresh” WRs, look at draft slotting. Because of the rookie salary scale, we know what each team thinks a player is “worth,” because where they pick them determines how much they are willing to pay them, just as if they were free agents. In the past four drafts, the top RB’s average draft spot was #5. The top WRs average draft spot was #12. That would actually tell you that the league prefers a bellcow RB to a #1 WR. (If we go 5 years back, the averages favor the WR, but only slightly; and does the trend mean the league is getting smarter re RBs?).

      Also, it might actually be a smart trend to take a RB in the 1st because of the 5th-year option, rather than avoiding them in the 1st. Not because they need the extra development time, but because you get to keep them for one more “fresh” year without having to take the big plunge into a long-term extension. Maybe that’s why the Pats made sure to get Michel at 31.

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