Russell Wilson... meet Bruce Irvin
A few days after Seattle drafted Russell Wilson, I made an argument for the third round pick starting as a rookie. The point being – Seattle’s situation at quarterback remains unclear and they may still need to prepare for a bigger investment next year. So if the situation arises where there’s little between Wilson, Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson in camp, why not see what the rookie can do? The financial investment placed in Flynn and Jackson is, in my view, less of a commitment than the third round stock placed in Wilson.
The piece created a fair old debate, with strong views for and against. Yet most sections of the media still see this as a non-issue and that Flynn will be the presumed starter. After signing his contract early, Wilson participated in mini-camps between over the weekend. He threw around 400 passes and took substantially more snaps than any other player over the course of the three-days. Carroll made a point of studying the offense on Friday and talked afterwards about putting the workload on Wilson to see how he performed.
The conclusion?
“He’s going to be in the competition; he’s shown us he needs to be,” @PeteCarroll said of Russell Wilson and the Seahawks’ 2012 QB battle
— Seattle Seahawks (@Seahawks) May 13, 2012
There’s no reason to jump the gun here. After all, Carroll admitted on Friday that things will be different when ‘the varsity‘ arrives. Wilson is going to have to beat out two veterans, including the incumbent starter, to start as a rookie. People were right to list him as an outsider in this race, but they’d be wrong to assume anyone’s a clear front runner.
Eventually people will take Carroll on his word and accept this is a competition. A lot of teams use that word when talking about their quarterbacks – Cleveland are still maintaining they’ll have a competition despite drafting a soon-to-be 29-year-old rookie in the first round. When Carroll says competition, he means it. When he wants to crown a starter, he will do (see: Hasselbeck, 2010 & Jackson, 2011). This is wide open.
And while nothing will be decided this weekend as rookies and free agents try out, this was Wilson’s chance to get into the equation. Struggle this weekend, and he was probably looking at a red-shirt year as the team’s #3 quarterback. He’s cleared the first hurdle.
I’m interested to see how the Seahawks go about this over the upcoming months. It’s difficult to conduct a full-blown three-way competition, splitting snaps evenly. Pre-season games are unfairly weighted against whoever takes the opening series or two when the veterans are on the field. Carroll will need to have an angle on who’s most likely to be the starter going into that first game.
Flynn is the favorite in many people’s eyes, but I’m still sceptical. This is a player who was expected to generate mass-interest in free agency. Peyton Manning helped take some of the edge off that, but none of the big players for Manning were ever expected to pursue Flynn (Denver, Arizona, Tennessee). Cleveland basically decided Colt McCoy and taking their chance on a 29-year-old rookie being available was a preferable alternative. Miami had a meeting with Flynn, but never really seemed to be in aggressive pursuit as they tried (and failed) to entice Manning to Florida. Why was his market so quiet? Does the league still carry doubts about his potential to start? And maybe if they do, those doubts are justified?
Seattle took an opportunity to add to the QB competition at a modest price, but I’m not sure they would’ve shown quite as much interest if a Miami or Cleveland got the chequebook out in hour one of free agency. People don’t see it now, but the salary commitment to Flynn is a pure bargain compared to the figures people were talking about after his performance for Green Bay against Detroit. If he is as good as that display suggested, the Seahawks took no gamble in finding out. This is not a Kevin Kolb contract.
Sure, the team has committed $10m in guarantees to Flynn. But let’s not forget that it’s only $2m more than the team has paid Tarvaris Jackson over the course of a 2-year deal. Flynn’s contract, if he ends up being a backup, is comparable to that of Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst. If he succeeds, the incentives are greater. I appreciate there’s still a good chance Flynn starts for Seattle in 2012, but he’ll almost certainly have to earn that spot just like anyone else. And if Jackson or Wilson looks better, then they’ll get the nod.
As for Jackson, despite a lot of supportive language about his future and ability to compete, the additions of Flynn and Wilson are hardly an endorsement of his 2011 season. Seattle’s quarterbacks combined for 26 touchdowns and 30 interceptions in 2010 and 2011. They really need someone who can score 26 touchdowns in a single season and have a lot less turnovers. Jackson earned a lot of respect in the locker room for toughing it out last season and he’s earned the right to compete this year. But there can be no complaints from anyone if he’s a casualty further down the line.
In all honesty I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson takes the job. Sure, he’d be be the first third-round rookie to start since 1973. Yet I’d argue he’s the more dynamic player out of the three. Physically he fits the ‘point-guard’ role better than the other two players. The Seahawks front office has done nothing but rave about him since the draft. And if he performs better than the other two quarterbacks, then why wouldn’t he start? The Seahawks believe in this guy. The presence of Flynn and Jackson gives them a reason not to start him if he’s not ready. But at the same time, their presence doesn’t prevent him from starting if he is.
This seems about right. I thought the earlier post was a smidge overstated.
Wilson can absolutely win the job. The rhetoric on Wilson hasn’t come down from the lofty heights. It’s clear Carroll likes him. Where I once thought Wilson would have to obliterate the competition to get the starting nod, I now think he can win it on “points” absolutely.
As you note, the REALLY interesting thing is gonna be figuring out how they’ll manage the competition. Logistically, it’s really unwieldy to have a three-way competition. It would not surprise me at all to see the team try to move Jackson to a situation where he has a shot to come right in as the backup, or maybe even get a starting job.
What this might look like is Wilson and Flynn getting more reps as Jackson and Portis are better known.
This may not seem fair to Jackson and Portis but it is. Wilson and Flynn have to demonstrate the ability to play better than Jackson and Portis have already done.
At least that is what I would expect. Unless Jackson has gotten considerably better (something we have no reason to expect) he’s pretty much a known entity. Portis is the one who will really lose out, because presumably he is the one who can benefit the most by having the more snaps.
I second that notion. Expect Flynn & Wilson to get the most reps as well because everyone knows Jackson…
It has been obvious to me for some time that Russell Wilson will be the starting QB in 2012 for Seattle. What I am seeing is the process play out, and it needs to, but in the end, barring injury, RW will start.
Why? Because he is the better football player. By the start of game 3 of the regular season he will have as much NFL experience as Flynn. Pete Carroll has a history of starting his stars, even when they struggle: last year that would be Carpenter and Moffit (the latter from Wisconsin, whose headcoach said that Wilson was light-years ahead of Moffit to start in the NFL); the previous year, Thomas and Okung.
This year Irvin will get significant snaps beginning with the first game, and will be a featured force on the d-line. Wagner needs to win the spot at MLB, but PC expects he will, in the same way that PC expects RW to win the starting QB gig. What I mean by this assertion is that the decision has not yet been made; PC will be ‘extremely patient’ (his words). Both Wagner and Wilson have to live up to those expectations on the field and in the locker room, and it’s certainly possible one (or both) of them fail to do so, and start the season somewhere other than on the field. But if both of them play to their targeted potential, PC won’t hesitate to start either (or both) of them.
As for the other impact player selected, Turbin will also receive significant snaps right off, as he spells Lynch on occasion. Even though he won’t be the ‘starting’ RB, he will be the starting rotational guy at the position. In other words, he will play in the first game, and every other that he is healthy.
Wilson is special, and PC will want his ability on the field, sooner rather than later. I don’t think Flynn or Jackson have the horses to prevent it.
To support my assertion about what seems obvious to me about RW starting, I offer the following:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/4/30/2990415/who-will-be-the-starting-qb-for-the-seattle-seahawks
And then more recently:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/5/10/3012858/why-russell-wilson-will-be-the-starting-qb-for-the-seattle-seahawks
I’m getting tired of Wilson being talked up like he is the second coming of Aaron Rodgers. He hasn’t played a single NFL game yet, and we have very little investment in him.
We spent 10 million on Flynn, we need to at least try him as a starter. Flynn deserves his shot at the pros. If we aren’t going to start him then we shouldn’t have wasted the money. Tavaris is a perfectly fine backup.
And what happened to Portis in all this? We never even played him in a game, and now we have two more QBs.
Assuming that the new QBs prove capable, I would like to see Flynn start the first half of the season and Wilson get played occasionally for the experience. I don’t see anything wrong with giving Wilson a quarter to play here and there.
I don’t think anyone has compared Wilson to the second coming of Aaron Rodgers. But let’s be fair here, the third round pick is a faux pas. Seattle didn’t need to take Wilson any earlier. They knew that, purely because of his height. But there’s no doubt in my mind they would’ve drafted him earlier had they needed to. Just listen to the way Schneider and Carroll have talked about this guy. The investment was what it needed to be to get the guy they wanted.
And let’s be clear here. Nobody is saying announce Wilson the starter. The argument is if the competition is close, why not look at Wilson? If Flynn cannot separate himself as the clear starter then why would he deserve to start?
$10m isn’t per year, it’s guaranteed over a three-year deal which is actually incredibly modest. It wouldn’t be a waste of money if he acts as a capable backup. He doesn’t need to start to justify that deal.
Given what we know about Wilson, and about PC, I have no problem projecting RW as the starter. He will win the competition, because he is a better QB, right now (or become the best in the course of the next 2 months), than anyone else on the roster.
All I can say is that I have been bombarded with Wilson articles for the last week. I like him but jeez, lets not make this so one sided. How about an article about Flynn once in awhile?
Yes 10 million isn’t much for a Qb but you know what they say. 10 million here, 10 million there, pretty soon your talking about real money. Plus Flynn didn’t come to Seattle to play backup. So if your not going to play him then trade him.
This is a draft blog and we’re reflecting on a draft pick. What is there to write about Matt Flynn? I’m starting to wonder if there will ever be a time when Seahawks fans don’t take quarterback articles personally.
And trading Flynn would make no sense at all. They signed him to compete. If he doesn’t win the competition, what’s the point in trading him when you’d have a capable backup? And who would even make the deal, given his free agency market was ice cold? Don’t see the problem here.
I predicted that Flynn will start based on experience and good skills. I think the one sentence that said “Wilson hit receivers by anticipating they would get open, when TJack needed the to BE OPEN, then rifle a pass to them”, pretty much spelled out TJacks fate…
The fact that Pete is adement about Wilson makes me a little giddy. It’s been so long since we had a QB that was actually pretty good it would really be cool if He is “all that”
i agree i think mat will end up starting.
if rw manages to start that will be incredible. he has alot of to prove though. the game speed compeltely changes from college to pro. he has to be sort of lucky too, the oline wasn’t know for it’s pass blocking and somehow being good at pass blocking by creating open lanes in the similiar fashion of brees after last year’s offensive line marry go round will be tough. he has to know the playbook, he has to know how to audible, read the complex nature of the defenses he will be facing. he will need to prove that he is better than two nfl ready qb’s amidst all the pressure he’s facing. man if rw can pull it off it’s going to be utterly amazing.
Rob – I don’t take it personally regarding who starts. I hope we have at least two excellent QBs for the teams sake. I’m just hoping we can talk about all the QBs now that full practice is starting.
Also, it’s important to recognize the environment. The veterans haven’t been in camp. So there is no newsworthy stories to publish about them.
Once the full team is in camp, that will change some. But you should probably expect a great deal of Wilson analysis. Because it’s compelling. Franchise QBs are rarely plucked from other teams’ rosters. So there is going to be keen interest in Wilson, because he is an intriguing prospect.
It’s now going to be a 3 way race. And the rookie draftee is going to feature prominently going forward until he plays his way out of the race. There is a chance that never happens. If it doesn’t, then I’d consider that a very good thing, because he most certainly will have earned the spot.
Really, whether it’s Wilson, or Flynn or Jackson — whomever emerges is going to have earned the spot. If getting Flynn and Wilson on the team was the necessary ingredient for Tarvaris to elevate his game up to his potential, then those additions were worthwhile.
The rookie is going to get a lot of publicity. That’s how these things go. Obviously, he has a lot of traits that Pete loves. He has already shown he’s not willing to expose developing talent if they aren’t capable (Whitehurst/Portis). So for him to give such an endorsement for a guy that has been with the team for just a couple weeks — that’s atypical for him. Our interest in following this guy should be piqued on that basis.
And furthermore you and I have talked often about this Attyla. Yes they brought in Flynn but as I stated I wanted our own guy who we groomed from jump street. I am much more excited for Wilson and am avidly cheering for him. Alaska, the same issues you are having problems with about Wilson, existed with Flynn prior to that. Except for on this site all anyone talked about with the Hawks was Flynn. So as a Flynn anti-honk, I am thankful for the reprieve. Flynn still has plenty o’ honks though
I really don’t remember that much excitement over Flynn. There have always been people on this site who downrated Flynn. I think he does have an exciting backstory, but who cares right???
Mostly the excitement was that we might have some other QB not named TJ.
Anyway, may the best man win.
You’re right. I haven’t heard PC talk up a guy like he’s talked up Wilson. It’s up to Wilson to keep it going.
John has shown a keen ability to project the draft, and I have no doubt that, if he and Pete thought Russell Wilson might have been selected earlier, they would have used the second round pick to land him. Pete freely admits that they went into the draft targeting Irvin and Wilson and would have considered the draft a failure if they had not landed both. John correctly read that Russell would be available R3, so they landed a starting Mike LB as a bonus prize.
Wilson is the embodiment of Pete’s description of the QB he has been looking for, gift-wrapped by the football gods…a starting QB for only a third round pick. It should be obvious that a QB achieves elite performance based on his decision-making and leadership abilities, not on his physical attributes. Brady is a d-minus athlete, but knows where to go with the ball and when to do it, and Manning himself if not much better of an athlete. Brees is too short but knows how to lead a charge like Stonewall Jackson. As Rob says, Russell is Pete’s ideal point-guard QB. Pete is even glad Russell is 5-11; otherwise they could never have landed him. It is only a matter of time until Russell Wilson is the starting QB for your Seattle Seahawks.
P’d and J’d for this year. There is a confidence in Carroll that has not been there before. I have my wish for starting QB, but to be honest, I don’t care. Just win.
That said, something within me… gut instinct, I guess, says Seattle is done looking for a QB. Not sure what that means. And again, I don’t care. But I do suspect Seattle are looking to make a 3-7 year run now.
I hope Pete stays for the entire run. It would surprise me if he did. He is a special dude. Authentic. And crazy. Nice combo.
Paul Allen is an exceptionally smart business man. The excitement around his team now is 3 times what it was when he hired Coach Carroll. No way in hell he fires him. Does Pete leave to go somewhere else? Doubtful. He wants to have a dynasty in the NFL like he had at USC. He will be here for the next 7 years. SO PUMPED for the Seahawks future, I feel like Robert Turbins arms.
This post made me jump out of my bed and yell ‘HELL YEAH’!! You are DEAD ON!!
Well said.
Kip, why are you Hawk blogging at 1;17 AM? lol
Most of my blog posts go up between 12 and 2 am, actually.
Wilson is very special, that’s why you are hearing so much about him.
It doesn’t matter how much is paid to Flynn, or how good a back-up TJack might be. PC will start the best QB he has on the roster, and there is very good reason to believe that person is Russell Wilson.
If that is the case, the question becomes, who is the back-up? In that competition, I have to give the edge to Flynn (actually, I’d give him a lot more than an edge).
That leaves the number 3 spot. No sense in keeping TJack here over a developing Portis. Portis has a future; TJack not so much.
So there you have it: Wilson starts, Flynn backs him up, with Portis the developmental guy.
I’m happy RW is impressing early but talk of him starting in year one barring injury is a little naive.
So when the Head Coach publicly admits he’s very much part of the competition to start, when does it stop being regarded as ‘naive’?
Zing!
Zing-Bang!
Folks, lighten up. We are blessed to have drafted Russell Wilson. I love reading everything I can about this guy. If he was 6’2″, we would not have gotten in the 3rd round. It’ great to read about all this. We have our QBOTF! I have never been this excited for a season, ever. Just the mini camps are thrilling to read about. I have complete faith in PC/JS and this time next year, the Mel Kipers of the world will be chocking on their words. We are witnessing the rise of Russell Wilson and it’s THRILLING.
Dbfresh @DougBaldwinJr
Remember when I said I liked Russel Wilson a lot… Yea, told you so. Lol
—————–
Doug Baldwin was there watching all 3 days of minicamp, he seems to be on board.
I can’t believe I ever doubted Doug Baldwin. He’s quickly becoming my favorite Seahawk not just for his story, but for his consistently awesome twitter updates.
Short guy tweets that he really likes short guy: Mel Kiper reading Doug Baldwin’s tweet.
He’s awesome. The only time his prognosticating failed was when he said that Whitehurst should be the starter. Not so much.
One thing that comes to mind with Pete’s competition mandala…is that when one stares at it long enough they start to see the flaws. Competition morphs into controversy, and no doubt, it seems to be more of a controversy than a competition so far. Perhaps when they actually start to compete, then the controversy lessens. I don’t think P.C is fond of qb controversy no matter how much weight he puts on competition. I cannot recall one at USC, of course last year we had the strange Tavaris is the starter without a competition due to the lockout maybe, but more so to the mantra that quarterback competitions are bad for any team. Look for Carroll to name a starter by the end of the second preseason game, if not before then. Wilson makes more and more sense to be that guy since the Seahawks have a team that is built to make the quarterback’s duties as light as possible. I think they want three things from their quarterback…no turnovers, locker room leadership, and fourth quarter come backs(maybe i just want this one). I think a prolonged competition muddles locker room leadership…so that is why this competition will be brief. Wilson seems to have all three of these characteristics, Tavaris from what others have said seems to be a decent guy in the locker room…yet turns the ball over and cannot lead a comeback, Flynn seems to be more unknown than Wilson, so maybe PC puts his fate in his guy…Wilson.
What a nice, over the top release he has.
I was looking at the picture thinking the very same thing…
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Flynn will almost certainly be the opening day guy. I think the learning curve for Wilson is just going to be a bit too much to expect him to be ready to go for week 1 in AZ; yes, I too have heard all about how he learned the Wisconsin playbook in 3 weeks and how he was a captain after only 1, but that’s irrelevent now. Flynn has already been watching a stud QB for 4 years now and has been groomed by an excellent head coach. He’s got some significant edges over Wilson.
I just want whoever is QB to elevate the play of the guys around them.
Flynn’s edges (watching Rodgers, Green Bay coaching) for me are not that significant. I’d be more willing to accept that if he was more accurate, had a stronger arm and had a cluster of starts/wins. None of those things are true IMO.
I tend to agree with Colin,
I love Russell Wilson and can’t wait to see him play during the pre-season. But, I also love Matt Flynn and what he might be capable of doing as a starting QB in this league. The fact that both Flynn and Wilson have had experience in both a pass-happy WCO and run-heavy vertical game and excelled in both, makes me think Jackson is the odd man out due to his lack of flexibility in game planning.
Breaking it down to just those two:
Between the ears: Tie
Arm Strength: Wilson
Anticipation/Accuracy: Flynn
Speed: Wilson (but not by much)
So to me, the fact that Flynn is a more polished professional product gives him the edge over Wilson in 2012.
I also think Flynn’s lack of arm strength (and lack of overall talent) is significantly overstated on this blog and elsewhere in the Seahawk interwebs. Flynn has proved at every opportunity to be a gamer, a competitor, and a winner. He doesn’t win in magical Tebow ways either – he wins by throwing dimes all over the football field.
I think the anticipation/accuracy is debateable, while in the speed category I’d argue Wilson is well ahead. RW is much more mobile and can make plays with his legs. Flynn is a classic pocket passer. And you talk about wins for Flynn and proving things… he has a career 1-1 record. He’s proven very little.
Two biggest advantages for Flynn:
1) Flynn has spent the last 4 years studying with Aaron Rodgers and the GB coaching staff on how to read and beat NFL defenses. Wilson may be a quick study, but he has absolutely zero hours studing NFL complexity defenses. Don’t underestimate how much of an advantage this will be for Flynn.
2) Flynn has practiced on a nearly level playing field against the best athletes in the world, and Wilson spent the last 4 years consistently practicing with players among whom only 15% might make it to the NFL, and only a third of those will be good in the NFL. Flynn has a developed and now innate knowledge of competing in a much faster game than Wilson has ever remotely experienced.
Speed is not even close. Flynn has enough. But for Wilson it is a definite plus.
Looking at tape, if I had to guess at Flynn’s 40, I’d say maybe 4.8? Wilson is a legit 4.5 guy. That’s much, much faster on a football field.
Flynn is from what I have read a real student of the game. So is Wilson. My guess is that Wilson will narrow any gap in this area (including “anticipation and accuracy”) quickly, but the question is how quickly.
Wilson has the stronger arm, and is the better athlete overall, pretty clearly.
This is going to be fun. Would not count Flynn out, especially early. Joe Montana did not have a cannon, and was not fast, but the dude understood the game. Athletes often don’t win these contests based on their athleticism, but on what else they bring to the table.
How could you post Flynn faster than Wilson? Did you not read that the only QB faster than Wilson at the combine was RG3. Wilson ran a 4.5 40.
And all the talk about Wilson was that he can throw receivers open and had incredible anticipation and accuracy. He had a 72% completion percentage his final year in college.
Flynn overall seems capable of winning and playing at a high level. I saw nothing to indicate he has any speed at all. When they rushed him, they pretty much took him down quick. I did not see much escapability with Flynn. Flynn has a quick release and good sense of where to go with the ball. But he’s not a great athlete like Wilson.
I want RW to start to see what we have. I truly believe Flynn will struggle in Seattle. NO beef with Flynn, but I would say GB has one of the best (if not the best) receiving corps in the game. He won’t have that here. But we need to see what we have in RW. If he’s not the guy, we need to get the guy next year. JS/PC have done a sick job filling every hole in the roster but QB. Time to see where we are.
Regardless of who plays QB this year, how good do they have to play to keep the Seahawks from drafting a QB in the first round in 2013?
I’m sort of going on a hunch here, but I think Tarvaris will be week 1 starter. He didn’t really play that badly last year, especially for struggling with injuries. I think he might come out this year and impress in practice and preseason enough to be the starter. Pete is all about competition. If Tarvaris is performing better than the other two, he won’t hesitate to start him.
Don’t underestimate the importance of knowing the system and already having a rapport with your offense. Russell may be a quick learner, but expecting him to be more ready to start than the other guys by week 1 is asking a lot, don’t be shocked if hit’s a few speed bumps along the way. Flynn doesn’t have a whole lot of experience, even though he has been in the league a while. It’s very plausible that he just isn’t ready to start in week 1. We actually have a good team this year, we have a reasonable shot at making the playoffs. Pete probably won’t risk losing games early in the season with a qb that isn’t ready, just to get him starter reps.
Tarvaris could even have a couple good games to start out the year, but by Week 6 or 7, the other guys will progress enough to take over the starting spot from him. By then, I’m sure some of his bad habits will show themselves anyways.
Tarvaris did play badly. For some reason there is a small segment of Seattle fans that don’t know what bad QB play is when they see it. But Tarvaris is an example of bad QB play. When Pete, his coaches, and John sat down to evaluate why they did not make the playoffs they probably broke it down something like this when the discussion came to the offense:
1.Bad QB play: 70%
2. Inexperience: 5%
3. Injuries: 10%
4. Poor WR play: 15%: And when discussing the WRs, the issue of the QB came up again as the probably debated whether the QB or the receivers were at fault. Since when you study quality QBs like a Brady and a Manning you see them elevating inexperienced, average receivers you bring yourself full circle back to bad QB play.
At some point Seattle fans need to understand that what Tarvaris did last year is not competitive QB play and is in fact bottom quarter, non-playoff contending QB play that will lead your team to years of mediocrity if you let that type of QB start for your team. You are smarter as an organization to take a chance on a QB with more upside than to continue to go with a known below average QB like Tarvaris Jackson.
I tend to feel the same way – albiet less strongly.
Jackson is good enough to hand the ball off to Marshawn, then throw downfield to wide open receivers. That plan worked pretty well once our running game was mashing people.
Jackson is not good enough to carry a gameplan. He has some physical talent, but has never been able to carry an offense or do more than augment a running game. If you can’t carry the offense once in a while, you arent a very good QB.
So in summary, Jackson is not good enough to lead us on a strong playoff run, or to a Super Bowl – so he isn’t good enough to be the starting QB.
Ya… this is so on point. The only reason the team supported TJack is because he was the only capable QB on the roster. Many of us were so desperate for a good QB, we actually believe C-dub Clippy was the answer. Pete could see that he was terrible and that Portis was nowhere close to understanding a real playbook that he had no choice to go all in with TJack immediately.
Fast forward one year, and we now are guessing that TJack will be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart SOON.
Flynn is super-smart and a very competent QB
Wilson is Super-boy Wonder
Portis has sick game, but maybe not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don’t know…
TJack awesome physicality, straw for brains…
Kinda spells doom for TJack, I’m just hoping they can get some trade value for him, that might be why they hold on to him for a while…
I’m not saying Tarvaris is going to take us on a deep super bowl run or anything, but he might give us the best chance to win at the beginning of the season.
You won’t find me saying that he is a solid nfl starter, I know how he performed last year. He did do better than expected in my opinion though. Now that we have people to replace him, I could see him sort of putting it together. Sort of like a Drew Brees Phillip Rivers situation. Again, it’s all based on a hunch.
I’m in the same camp as you Rory. Do you realize that if Hauschka makes a gimme field goal in the final game against Arizona, the Hawks would have finished 6-2 under Tarvaris in the second half of the season. I’ll take that kind of record any day. The guy is respected by his teammates and they play well with him. He certainly doesn’t deserve the “bad quarterback play” label someone earlier espoused. That’s simply unrealistic. He got a rap for holding onto the ball too long and taking a sack. Sure he should have sailed one out of bounds a few more times, but at least he wasn’t just heaving it up there and giving up an interception, a turn of events that easily sabotages a strong running game and defense. Keep Tarvaris as the starter and the Hawks will prosper.
Aren’t you the bandwagon fan from Minnesota? Why do you feel we should take your opinion seriously, when you are just Jackson fan and not a Seahawks fan?
First of all, Tarvaris Jackson is a back up qb. Everybody in the world can see that and especially the Vikings. The Vikings did a great job getting rid of Jackson. The Seahawks will to and Jackson will become what he deserves, which is a career back up. The Seahawks are a good enough team to win in spite of the qb and that is what they did last year. They played some of the worst teams in the league down the stretch and they should have gone 8-0. That won’t happen next year. You have to have a great qb to win a Super Bowl and Jackson isn’t even good enough to lead a team to the playoffs. Jackson was one of the worst qbs in the league in any metric and hurt the team. If they had better qb play, they would have made the playoffs and competed for a Super Bowl. The only really good team that Tarvaris beat by himself was the Ravens. Charlie brought the Seahawks back to beat the Giants. You could have replaced Jackson with any qb in the top 15 of the league statistically and the seahawks would have been super bowl contenders with their defense and running game. Taravaris is one of the worst qbs in the nfl. He is a backup or 3rd stringer in the nfl. People who cannot see that should have their football knowledge questioned. Flynn and Russell Wilson will blow him out of the water in the competition. He is only in this competition, because Pete respects his toughness and wants to give him a shot. Pete is not blind and nobody else is either to the deficiencies of Jackson.
The only place Tarvaris would not be a bad qb is in the arena league or the cfl? Maybe he should join? Also, would you follow him there too?
Also, maybe you should start saving up your $50, that you made a bet on at seahawks.net, that Tarvaris would lead the seahawks to the playoffs. He may not even make the team this year. lol. hahahahahha.
Meant to say started in a game, where the seahawks won, when I was talking about the ravens. Jackson obviously did not win the game for the seahawks. Beast Mode did.
Also, meant to say 6-2 was not good enough with the easy schedule and the seahawks should have done better and Jackson deserves little credit for the wins and lots of credit for the losses. That is what horrible starter, like Jackson does. He is a detriment to the team. He should be cut. Wilson, Flynn, and Portis would be a great qb group. We don’t need Jackson and he can be a backup or 3rd string on some other team.
Obviously, talking to Siouxguy in these posts. Nothing against you Rory. Siouxguy has been known to create crazy posts with crazy opinions on other websites like Seahawks.net and fellow Vikings fans have made fun of Siouxguy’s posts on other sites after Siouxguy’s crazy ramblings. These nonsensical posts have started to appear on this site, which is a shame, because this is a great site. Siouxguy believes Jackson is a top 5 qb and a franchise qb and Jackson should never be replaced and the rest of the team should overcome the shortcomings of Jackson. Siouxguy is only a Jackson fan and stopped being a Viking fan, when Jackson left the team and will undoubtedly become a fan of Jackson’s new team, when he leaves or is cut from the seahawks. That will be great for seahawks fans, because Siouxguy is an out of touch crazy person.
Watch the Joe Montana Magic videos. Give them a close watch, then watch Russell Wilson videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVjTlVcB1AQ
For the most part the comparison is meaningless as far as careers go or on the field team success. But not meaningless as far as playing style goes. Russell Wilson wore 16 in college because he likes Joe Montana and modeled his game off Joe Montana.
Watch how they both play. Constant movement. Eyes down the field. Lots of movement in the pocket. Scrambling to keep plays alive. Both highly mobile and lots of throwing on the run. Lots of rolling out of the pocket. Quick feet always moving.
Russell Wilson is one of the few QBs I’ve seen coming out of college that has successfully modeled his game after Joe Montana. You can see the Montana style in Russell Wilson if you compare their highlights. Russell keeps talking about Drew Brees as a guy he likes. I’m sure he does. But you can tell Russell’s strongest influence was Joe Montana or he just naturally developed that way. But given the college number he wore from NC State to Wisconsin, I get the feeling that Russell Wilson has studied and purposefully styled his game off the prototype WCO QB Joe Montana, another under-sized, weak-armed, highly mobile, accurate, intelligent QB with intangibles off the charts.
What does it mean? Nothing until he makes his own name mean something. But QBs like Joe are fun to watch. Russell should at least be a very exciting QB to watch given his mobility, ability to throw on the run, and his creativity.
Joe Montana wore #16 in the pros. Russell Wilson said he chose #16 at NC State and Wisconsin to honor Montana. Wilson had to change his number when getting drafted by Seattle. He chose #3. Guess what number Montana wore in college? Gotta love that.
Well, damn. Things are getting eerie. Russell said he chose the number to honor The Blessed Trinity. And it’s Joe’s number. Coincidence? We shall see. May the stars align so that Russell Wilson lives up to the number. May he be the answer to the Seahawk Nation’s prayers for a dynasty. I’m one of the coal shovelers on the Russell Wilson hype train that you’re driving Kip.
The blessed Trinity of Montana, Brees, and Tarkenton?
If this were Fieldgulls, I’m pretty sure a photoshop or .gif would have quickly followed this comment.
Fantastic comment! Bravo!
This actually makes a ton of sense because of his start at NC State as a West Coast Offense quarterback. He says he purposefully chose NC State for its WCO playbook to help jumpstart his NFL prospects. If I was an ambitious young QB in a WCO system I would track down a pile of Joe Montana film and lock myself in a room with it for about a month…
Also, thanks for directing me to that highlight vid. Wow, if you don’t watch Montana for a while you forget just how completely dominant he was.
Joe Montana was also a 3rd round pick… Just sayin’.
The only thing similar with Wilsons and Montanas videos are a similar type of offense and lots of well thrown balls. Mechanically they are nothing alike. Watching the Montana throw looks exactly like watching Tom Brady throw. Exactly. But Brady is of course no where close to as mobile as Montana was (or Wilson is). Russell Wilson looks like a much stronger thrower than Montana. Not to say he’s a better thrower, or that he throws too many fastballs but he just looks a lot stronger.
I could be wrong here because I don’t catch every press conference and every single PC tweet, but I’ve never really heard Pete gush about Flynn. When we signed him I remember hearing only that he’ll be great competition for Tavaris and we’re looking forward to him coming in and seeing what he has … that type of thing. It kind of reminds me of how PC talked about Whitehurst after the Giants game, after he came in and kept the offense going and we won it — you’d have thought he’d be ecstatic but he said only something like, “Yeah, he did a good job for us.” We wouldn’t find out until the Browns game why he was so glum about Whitehurst taking over. It’s like with Flynn, he’s not quite sure what he has here yet.
Whereas with Wilson, Pete can’t stop hyping the kid. Which makes sense, I suppose, from the way that Wilson fits the prototype of what PC wants in a quarterback, and can run *his* offensive vision with him, rather than re-tailor it.
The way I see it, the Hawks knew they had to upgrade the quarterback position this off-season, and Russell Wilson was their Plan A. That’s who they wanted for the franchise. But they weren’t entirely sure whether or not he’d be ready to start by day one. They certainly didn’t want to assume that and throw him out there if he was going to need a year on the clipboard. At the same time, they didn’t want another year of T-Jack, or at least a T-Jack that was getting pushed by the quality of QB that was Whitehurst. They needed a free agent who would be as good as or better than Tavaris Jackson, and sign him for not much more than backup money.
(This had the added incentive of smokescreening the Wilson pick: If we’d headed into the draft with only T-Jack at QB, the league-wide expectation is that we’d absolutely need to take one, and perhaps would have had to grabbed him with our second pick to make sure we got him over another team.)
When the market on Flynn goes cold, he becomes the best possible option to compete with T-Jack and/or start if need be if Wilson needs to sit. He’s unproven but that’s a good thing compared to a journeyman type like Kyle Orton where you know what you’re getting; maybe Flynn can surprise. We’ll see in camp.
My reading of Pete’s mind is this: If all else fails, Tavaris Jackson knows the playbook and will have had a full offseason with the team and is presumably healthy, and can stop-gap again for a year. Flynn is an unknown, but at the very least will make sure T-Jack doesn’t slack off, and at best we’ve found a diamond in the rough who can lead the team if he proves himself. Wilson is my first choice, the guy who I want to stake the future on, and who I’m pulling for to be my starter, but I don’t want to throw him to the wolves if he’s not ready. He’ll have to prove himself.
If that summation is anywhere near correct, then if all three QBs practice somewhere around the same level, then Wilson will start. If Wilson isn’t ready, and Flynn and Jackson play at around the same level, then might as well give Flynn a chance and see what he can do. If Flynn is only a system quarterback (and it’s not this system), then Jackson gets the nod. In other words, I don’t think Wilson needs to actually outplay Flynn to start… he just has to be in the same vicinity of play for Pete to roll the dice with him. Flynn would definitely need to outplay Wilson to start.
In even further words: PC probably has his preferred pecking order (just based on his enthusiasm level in press conference for the guys), but it will have to be backed up on the field to play out that way.
Agreed on all counts.
I’m excited. I don’t care whether RW starts this year, next year or the year after. He’s the QBOTF and he’ll start when he’s ready. In the meantime I’ll be grabbing my popcorn for one of the more intriguing NFL camp QB competitions I’ve ever seen. What makes it fun is that I think P&J have a more open mind about who’ll be the starter than most fans and pundits – it’s a race that’s impossible to call at this point. The only thing that’s clear is that the fate of Josh Portis is the one that hangs most delicately in the balance.
Well, I would rather hold onto the upside of Portis than cling to the known quantity of TJack…
What is lacking in this debate already is the discussion about if Pete has a winning offensive plan. Tough defense, strong special teams and a run first offense with a point guard Qb, seems to be the overall design, but can it win in the NFL year in and year out is what remains to be seen.
One glaring subtext in the Wilson mini-camp was Wilsons struggles with the deep ball. Overthrows and picks were noted. This was without the ET’s of the NFL roaming around back there. Pete never made a living offensively in the NCAA going deep but he likes to take his shots. If Wilson can’t protect the ball in that way he might not “be the guy”.
I don’t see the Qb competition ending with just this group and think Pete will hold it again next season and beyond. He has never played 10 years with just “the guy”. Not sure he knows how to do that.
About the deep ball issues, we don’t have full context or any way to evaluate those issues. Not saying they are not there, or are not significant, just saying we don’t know.
For an initial camp and playing for the first time (after 2 weeks) with a new playbook and throwing to unknown WRs – it would be hard to put too much weight on any indication of imperfection.
If those troubles continue to manifest themselves with his primary WRs and after getting some playing time, then yeah, that would be a problem.
You make a good point, it is time for this offensive coaching staff to step up and make this offense work. They have some shiny brand new toys that they need to show were the exact right choice. A large group of offensive pocket makers on the mend who have new competition. A powerhouse back with a new stud as back up. And probably the most intriguing back story of all, a group of play for more pay ball catches who know that their future in the NFL is totally dependent on them catching everything thrown at them or their gone. They will need to “click” with which ever QB is the QBOTP (QB of the Present). There is definitely alot of intrigue for Seahawk fans.
The problem I have with the deep ball and batted balls mentioned, if they didn’t give them any context. When taliking Flynn and T-Jack, they only said Flynn was more accurate and T-Jack had a stronger arm. That tells us nothing. Did Wilson miss more deeps balls than Flynn or Jackson? We also have to take into account that Wilson is working with scrub rookie receivers learning the system as well. Developing timing on deep routes is very difficult and takes times. I want to hear how Wilson does against Flynn and T-Jack with the 1s. Doug Baldwin sounds like he is extremely excited to play with Russell Wilson. I want to see how they connect.
Let’s remember that the most likely reason that T-Jack will be released is his salary. His $4 mil can be rolled over to next year. The Seahawks have a number of key players who will need to be re-signed to the more-lucrative second contracts. Releasing T-Jack, for example, would provide the money to resign Kam Chancellor next year. If Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn can be the nos. 1 & 2 QBs next year (in whichever order), then Seattle will release Tarvaris in order to re-sign a key player next year.
Tarvaris isn’t going to be released and the $4 million cap space is a small pittance. At the very least, Tarvaris is one of the best backups in the game, so it would be very foolish to cut the guy and leave the Hawks with QB experience equivalent to 2 games among three players. Pete knows this and so should you.
If Wilson continues to impress – Jackson ends up in another uniform. Flynn isn’t going anywhere, Wilson isn’t going anywhere. Is there room for Jackson right now? Sure – but not if he ends up 3rd on the depth chart after the dust settles. The 3rd QB spot is reserved for someone with a future on the team (and a smaller contract) and if Jackson falls behind these two guys… why would Paul Allen pay $4 mil to a guy who ends up inactive each week?
I also don’t understand the assessment of Jackson being “one of the best backups in the game”. Being not good enough to start does not automatically get you a job as a good backup. Jackson knows the plays… ok, great – but if he plays QB on this team we end up .500 at best – we’ve seen that movie before… time to watch something else. Barring an amazing leap in Jackson’s ability to read, react, throw on time, anticipate routes, and diagnose holes in a defense he’s going to finish 3rd in Seattle. Is he better than a lot of other team’s backups… hell yes. But, we just acquired TWO fairly high-profile players at QB and invested more in each of them than we ever did in Tarvaris. All I’m saying is don’t go buy your #7 – Jackson jersey just yet (at least not a Seahawk jersey).
Besides, as we’ve seen with Lofa and now Hawthorne, Pete isn’t afraid of youth or inexperience and neither should you.
As it stands we don’t need a quality backup right now. We need as many reps as possible given to potential starters like Wilson and Flynn. Giving reps to a perennial backup happens when you have a starter in place. Otherwise your 1 and 2 position should be held down by potential starters working to take the starting job.
I think everyone needs to keep in mind the concept of competition. In a competition at QB with 3 participants, PC will try and get each participant an equal amount of snaps, at least initially. The QB that plays the best will start. Period. A very simple contest, play the best & win the competition.
In the event that PC determines that a specific QB was a winner and it was clear that another QB played better, that would be the wrong message to send to the entire team and would surely facilitate the downfall of PC/JS. Coaches have to be honest in their evaluations or the team will notice and that’s a bad thing.
Many in this thread are saying “IF” the competition is close, that PC should pick the QB with the most NFL expierience (T-Jack) or PC should pick Flynn due to his paycheck.
However, IMO the best option is for PC to pick the most obvious “winner of the competition” Russell Wilson, ’cause he’ll significantly outplay the others and win the QB starting job.
If RW is good enought to compete for the starting gig, I find it very difficult to believe that TJ will remain on the team.
I think we will know for sure by the end of July.
lord I hope so…
I really like RW and can see him having success.
For arguments sake, when it comes to his height, what changes at the NFL level that suddenly makes his such a huge disadvantage (as some would argue).
I can understand if he played for Oregon, Oklahoma or Baylor (bigtime QB friendly systems). But he mastered a prostyle offense behind an NFL sized oline + NFL dlinemen are taught to fire off the ball low and stay low for leverage purposes.
Prostyle O/huge oline, so what suddenly changes at the the NFL level where height could be an issue now?
May the best man win.
I don’t think there is pressure to start Wilson this year, though. The only one clamoring for a ‘new’ QBOTF are the folks in love with Barkley and the rest of next year’s presumed QB class. There is no pressure to start Wilson in year one.
I think Flynn will do enough combining his experience in preparing for his shot for the number of seasons he has. He has knowledge, experience in the pro game, and has learned from another great QB and leader in Rodgers. If he fails to win the job this year I’ll be surprised. The Seahawks aren’t going to rush Wilson to ‘see what they have’ because of events not as of yet happened. They will let the best QB start and I think Flynn is going to have the edge.
Wilson may indeed have a higher ceiling and maybe he does win the job, but he’ll start because he outplays the other QBs and no other reason. I think that could happen, but I don’t agree with the ‘alternate agendas’.
With what Cable’s got cookin’ between Beastmode and Hulkmode, there will be many snaps where defenses are fearing the run. This is where a QB capable of taking advantage of a defensive mistake, albeit either a player not making a play, not keeping his assignment, or a defensive coordinator calling the wrong defense. Flynn and Wilson are both highly capable of fulfilling this role in spades and teams making a run at success need two+ QBs. I expect they will both do real well in camp and pre-season and I expect Flynn get the nod due to his NFL experience and tutelage scouting, studying, and practicing in the excellent GB development system over the last few years, not to mention a few great starts. I expect that when Wilson gets his shot at starting, he will not give it back so it behooves Flynn to not miss a game. Allowing Wilson to develop without the team on his shoulders early on will only make him stronger and hungrier, it will allow him to learn nuances more quickly. Having these guys is a fantastic problem for the coaches to have. It will allow them the opportunity over the next few years to use the QB3 spot for development to either trade or prepare to compete. The best teams don’t ever let the cupboard go bare, they have the next guy ready to go.
This is my feeling as well. I think that Flynn can and will play well enough to start the season off. There’s no problem with letting Wilson acclimate to the pro-game. I do think that it will be a close competition.
People were right to list him as an outsider in this race, but they’d be wrong to assume anyone’s a clear front runner
————
Are you being serious here? You don’t think that Flynn is the “clear front runner?” I would go much further than front runner and tell you that he is the gauranteed starter on game #1. Without doubt.
The truth of the matter is that you really don’t know what you have in the NFL unless you see said QB in a real NFL game. We’ve already seen Flynn in 2 and he has been spectacular. You cannot know what you have by watching him in practice or preseason. Flynn will start, i’d put the odds at 99% if we exclude injury and off-field issues. There is literally no doubt about it.
Same thing could have been said about every great QB past and present. All I know is if Wilson is tearing it up in camp and the preseason, Flynn won’t want to let the guy have a shot in a real game at taking his job.That should make Flynn play better.
I’m just wondering if it would make more sense to have Jackson-Wilson combo as starter/backup (or in ohter order), because they have more similar playing styles and moving from starter to back up wouldn’t need so much adjusting on offensive schemes.
No, if anything Jackson is a completely different player than Wilson and Flynn. Flynn’s athleticism is widely underrated. The guy has good wheels, he’s no Manning or Mallett out there.
Jackson is not a cerebral QB, both Wilson and Flynn are – they throw in anticipation of the receiver being open by reading the defense and predicting the holes in the defense. You often hear it referred to as “throwing the receiver open”.
Jackson sees an open guy and throws it to him – he gets away with that because he has an incredibly strong arm, but it is a bad tendancy. The good QB’s throw in anticipation.
Wilson is an exciting prospect because he has an incredibly strong arm AND the ability to predict the open receiver before he sees it. That is rare, giving him a very high ceiling IF he can overcome the height deficiency as Brees has.
Flynn is fantastic at reading the defense and throwing on time, his lack of arm strength is mitigated because he is so good at diagnosing the right place to throw the ball and he’s accurate enough to put it where he wants it WHEN he wants it to arrive. He and Hasselbeck share more than just a first name – they are very similar in the game they play.
To all the people who keep falling back on the “Flynn studied under Aaron Rodgers and learned all his greatness” argument. If this is such a sure fire reasoning, please explain to me why the backups of all the other great qb’s over the years don’t all go on to rule the NFL. Jim Sorgi and Curtis Painter studied under Peyton Manning. Why didn’t we go after them? Nothing against Flynn. But there are just as many fans creating reasons in their heads telling themselves why he’s destined for greatness as there are with Wilson. Both are unknown quantities when it comes to how they’ll be as the starting qb for the Seattle Seahawks. Acting ant different for either guy at this is silly.
Flynn translated his experience and learning into success in real live games after beating out a much earlier draft pick in Brian Brohm. Flynn has shown he’s been up to the task at every opportunity. Not every team drafts good backups behind elite starters. The Packers have done multiple times (Favre, Hasselbeck, Rodgers, Flynn).
a 1-1 record isn’t success. It’s just a 1-1 record. Nothing more. Caleb Hanie Stepped in for Cutler two seasons ago and fans in Chicago thought they had something special….then he stepped in for Cutler for longer this last year and turns out he wasn’t all that great.
Flynn has stepped up to the task every time. Oddly so has Russell Wilson. Flynn has taken the time presumably to work on NFL defenses and schemes while holding the clipboard. Russell WIlson took the time to make his decision(s) of where he went to college both thimes relative to learning pro-systems.
It’ll be certainly interesting to see who wins out this summer. A highly paid backup or the Mid round draft pick. The guy wiht more pro experience vs. the guy with more current game experience.
Does paying your dues mean you are the starting QB? Or are we as fans almost over the idea that rookies need to sit with the success of guys like Newton/Dalton/Ryan/Flacco/Roethlisburger ( who was supposed to sit…but obviously didn’t)
There is a lot to that.
The difference between being the backup QB with no expectations is just entirely foreign when a QB is elevated to the starting job.
So much about being a functional QB is driven by confidence and the ability to master pressure. Those elements are relatively untested as a backup.
It is true that Flynn rode a thouroughbred NFL offense to a win against an ascending Lions team that was motivated to win that game. It is also true that the Lions defensive backfield was a little suspect all year but they have done little major work to overhaul it in the off-season. So I would judge Flynn’s performance in that setting as a Packers fan recently did.
“Flynn did’nt just throw 6 TD’s he threw 6 lead changing TD’s for the win”
That performance has yet to be seen at all by TJ or RW.
I’m not boarding the Wilson train unless he puts me on it!
I agree with you woofu. Glad PC is talking up Wilson but he should also give some love to Flynn his $10 million dollar Qb aquisition.
Now I know that Wilson had a great college career, he went on to win the national championship, and then set a team record at Green Bay, so you would think he would get more respect. What’s that??? Oh I’m sorry but that was FLYNN who won a national championship and set a team record.
From Wiki: With Russell’s departure, Flynn finally became a starter as a fifth-year senior. He started every game that season except the SEC Championship in which he was injured.
Flynn threw a 22 yard TD pass to Demetrius Byrd to win the game against Auburn on October 20, 2007 with 1 second remaining on the clock; Colt David kicked the extra point to make the final score LSU 30-Auburn 24.
He then led the Tigers to a 4th quarter comeback against Alabama. Flynn and the Tigers then went on to beat Louisiana Tech the following weekend and climb back to the #1 spot after a loss by then-#1 Ohio State. The following week the Tigers beat Ole Miss. In his final game at Tiger Stadium, Flynn and the Tigers lost to Arkansas, seemingly losing any chance at the national title. However, LSU, without Flynn, beat Tennessee for the SEC Championship, and losses by Missouri and West Virginia vaulted LSU back into the title game in New Orleans.
On January 7, 2008, Flynn led LSU to a BCS National Championship, beating Ohio State 38-24. Flynn was named offensive MVP of the game and the Tigers were ranked an undisputed #1 in the polls.
If Flynn doesn’t get the starting job he will only be our backup for 2 years max. All QBs want a shot at playing. He isn’t going to be a backup forever so if he can’t start for us he will want to move on to another team.
So what if he is our backup for two years. Who cares if he is always a backup. The market rate for backups this last off season with Campbell and Orton, and Hasselbeck if Locker beats him out this year, is going to start to be between 3-6 million per year. That’s fair value for a backup that is not a developmental player who can actually come in and win games. In two years his contract is up and he moves on….so do the Seahawks. Maybe two years is the exact amount of time to get Portis up to speed…..maybe the Hawks draft a qb every year for that back up player spot. You never. Are we saying that we should play Flynn simply because we signed him, and he may not stay here long term?
As for the argument that has totally waned at this point as that the pro Wilson people and the pro-flyn people can say the same thing…..Who cares if he won a national championship at the college level. How is that indicative of success later on….Just go ask Leineart, Young, and Tebow how the national championship MVP is treating them…Conversely RW “mastering” two systems at the college level doesn’t mean anything…..
My question to the Flynn supporters….when did Pete Carrol ever say flat out, “we are signing FLynn to be our starter in 2012?” ever. Not what pundits and you, yourselves believed that “obviously,” you would never sign a QB in the off season if they weren’t going to start…..
I support both QBs and TJ too if he could get a little better. I don’t think it is obvious who will start, so I look forward to the competition. I’m just willing to give Flynn some needed props on this website for past performance.
I think they (PC/JS) did give him some props…that’s a good/great contract for a guy with limited game film….It’s no Kolb contract but Arizona lost on that one. But…When Flynn signed here he had to know that There was a chance that even before Russell Wilson came along that a healthy Tjax might be him out, and he’d still be a backup. We’re all guessing at this point. Some think RW will start, some think Flynn is a guaranteed to start….like you I think it’s anyone’s guess
He hasn’t. Although it’s worth noting he wasn’t ever introduced as Jackson’s backup either.
Really, it is just reading the tea leaves. The QB position badly underperformed last season. We signed one of the hottest backups since Matt Cassell who could have signed elsewhere and been a day one starter.
It doesn’t make sense, that we would tell him he’d be a backup but we’ll pay him somewhat more than somebody else — and he’d choose to sign here. We signed him to a modest starter salary contract. He could have simply resigned with Green Bay and remained a backup there. He chose to sign here because it was in the end the best opportunity to start.
We’ve been around Pete enough to know, that he doesn’t always tip his hand on his thoughts about the QB position. We have to often times read what’s not said to decipher what he’s really thinking. In this case, it’s a realistic expectation that Seattle, behind closed doors, was really not happy with the QB play last year. Evidenced by us signing the top FA (before Peyton blew it up), and taking a rookie QB with the mild hopes he’d make the squad as a backup.
Pete is going to say publicly what he needs to say to keep their confidence buoyed. But the offseason actions speak volumes about how they truly feel.
I’m in the Flynn camp for this year myself…..
Misfit 74 captured how I feel. I think some here are not big Flynn fans and want to see what R. Wilson has right away so they can move on to the QB draft/Barkley. Or they are just overly excited for Wilson since he’s our new drafted rookie QB, which had such impressive stats in college. I DO get the love for him.
But, the hype is a little overboard I think. I’d rather him come in later then to rush him in before he’s ready. Let him restart our fire IF Flynn fails.
I feel the “wilson to start talk” is dismissing Flynn’s abilities and what he can bring us. I feel Flynn gives us just as much upside for QBOTF. Flynn could be a steel and become very very good. Flip the whole Kolb talk cr@p. He’s still young. He’s shown some impressive things against pro talent. He really should be 2-0 if not for comeback Brady.
Unproven of course – We’ll see?
If not, then R. Wilson is a very nice option to have waiting in the wings. And that makes more sense then to shove Wilson out there first and have that fail on us.
Wilson is not a huge investment either, just like Flynn. The Whitehurst deal costed us more then a 3rd rounder that we spent on Russel Wilson. Let’s be fair to that point when talking about Flynn being on the cheap. Wilson is too.
We are looking for a franchise QB on the cheap! Be it Flynn, Wilson, T. Jackson.
I love what we are doing. But, the team is building one way or another regardless.
And down the road If all else fails, then we probably sale the farm for a 1st round #1 pick at QB. (Doesn’t have to be Barkley though)
But as PC said, and as it should be – The best man will win the job. I have no doubts.
I think it will be Flynn myself. Makes the most sense to me as Wilson can come in at the end should Flynn fail. But, if it is R. Wilson so be it. He’ll have to earn it. Just like Flynn will.
I do think the odd man out is T. Jackson. I won’t be shocked if he’s not even on our team this year. Next year for sure I see him gone.
I’m happy with our QB crew though. Both Flynn and Wilson are very exciting to me. I love the makeover. I like both of them a lot.
But, I do have high hopes for Flynn! (And I have future high hopes for Wilson)
The one nice thing about PC as we learned from the Whitehurst situation: PC will start the QB that performs the best regardless of fan sentiment. Whoever starts will be the best performing QB be it Wilson or Flynn…or football gods help us…T-Jack.
I think Pete places too much emphasis on practice. He seems to judge all his decisions on practice, when many players are good in practice and suck in games (tjack) and some are average in practices and do well in games. I don’t think practice is the all or nothing thing it is portrayed to be. I hope we change that and Pete sees the potential guys have, when some guys are just good in practice and don’t have much potential.
PC was clear that TJ was a temporary QB to be used until they found another QB. So I don’t blame PC for TJ. And really TJ played pretty well when you consider the dismal offensive line (due to inuries) and the so-so receiving corp we fielded last year. The only thing that saved our butts was Lynch running like a rabid beast and our offensive line gelling toward the end of the season.
What I see of PC is a man that likes the diamond in the rough, likes to develop a player that other’s don’t see potential in. The danger in that is that his high round picks seem like diamonds in the rough too. Maybe they will work out – maybe not.
It seems to me that T-Jack clearly showed he was better in practice and it showed up on the field. I don’t put much stock in your believing practice doesn’t matter. Our guys show up on the field well-prepared. And it is practice where you prepare. I’m not quite sure what players you think made it on the field that looked better in practice than they did on the field. But Doug Baldwin took the slot job in practice and it certainly showed up on the field. I would say most of the guys that practiced and played hard showed it on the field. So not sure what you’re basing your assumption on. Do you have evidence to support your speculation? Charlie Whitehurst looked better than T-Jack in the preseason, but not in practice. When Whitehurst stepped on the field, he certainly looked worse than Tarvaris.
In sports practice is the THING. You can’t just put players in because they were mediocre in practice, when they’ve known since they were 8 or 9 years old that solid practice is what gets you into games….and just play them for the hope they turn it on, on game day. Practice is what allows thm to play a guy like Lockette, or Sherman, when spots get thin.
Kip,
You ever think of doing a draft retrospective on the QBs we’ve drafted? Because near as I can tell Russell Wilson is the best QB candidate Seattle has ever drafted in terms of production and overall ability save for being too short. I looked at Dan McGwire, Kelly Stouffer, and Rick Mirer, not a single one appeared to be as productive as Wilson. I think McGwire came the closest. It would be interesting to see an analysis of our QB draft picks over the years to see a comparison. Wilson seems like the best QB draft pick we have ever taken save for his height.
I am so fired up about Russell Wilson that I had to re-read this. Last years Rose Bowl was on tv a few days ago, WOW. Then I watched his highlights again on Youtube. This guy is the Seahawks QBOTF and I feel that he is the best QB we have ever drafted easily. It will come down to he and Flynn for #1. Portis will be retained and TJack will be the odd man out.
Russell Wilson is a winner and he will elevate our offense in the 4th quarter. I cant wait for the player camps to begin!