Here’s the blurb:
Since the last time Rob was on the show, the impact of the trade for Jimmy Graham shifts the desire of adding a wide receiver in the early rounds to looking for offensive lineman. Seattle will also have to wait until the second round before making their first selection. Rob talks about how Ty Sambrailo of Colorado State could fill the void at guard if he’s still on the board.
The Seahawks recently brought in Stefen Wisniewski as a potential replacement for Max Unger but news has been quiet on the former Oakland center. Rob explains what could possibly be going on behind the scenes. If Wisniewski goes elsewhere, Rob talks about a few other options available in the draft.
Are the Seahawks done at receiver? Rob talks about his desire to see the team look toward the draft for a guy the team can develop and be available down the road with a priority toward a player who can contribute in the return game. Kansas State’s Tyler Lockett is a player who is expected to be around in the second round. Finally a look at what the signing of former Browns defensive tackle Ahtyba Rubin means moving forward.
Definitely worth the listen.
Someone in the last post’s comments section brought up a website that’s an interactive mock draft simulator called Fanspeak. Because I was bored I did a seven-round mock draft and here’s what I got. SDB readers will definitely like it. I mean, it’s crazy how good of a draft I had, in my opinion. 🙂
ROUND 2 (63): Ty Sambrailo, OT, Colorado State
ROUND 3 (95): Hroniss Grasu, C, Oregon
ROUND 4 (112): Tyler Lockett, WR, Kansas State
ROUND 4 (130): Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana
ROUND 4 (134): Clayton Geathers, S, UCF
ROUND 5 (167): Nick Marshall, CB, Auburn
ROUND 5 (170): Adrian Amos, S, Penn State
ROUND 6 (180): Darren Waller, WR, Georgia Tech
ROUND 6 (209): Leterrius Walton, DT, Central Michigan
ROUND 6 (214): Chris Harper, WR, California
ROUND 7 (248): Rob Crisp, OT, North Carolina State
Whether or not the draft actually plays out like this where all these guys are available when the Hawks pick, that remains to be seen. But to me the mock suggests that we will have a lot of options at 63 and beyond. Even if there is a run on a position that leaves it a bit void of value, there will still be tremendous value at other positions.
The cool thing is that toward the end of the draft, Walton, Harper and Crisp were all wayyy down the board. So the mock draft also suggests that these players are not valued, but to us they could be steals.
Which prospect Database did you use?
When I did this with the NDT database, Danny Shelton was available when Seattle picked in the 2nd round…
WOW! That would be crazy good if the draft played out that way! Nice job. I like how you didn’t take the usual suspects.
I’ve been wondering about Nebraska HB Ameer Abdullah. It appears he has the highest ‘unique index’ rating. Something that Zach Whitman drummed up. Is he an option at no. 63? I think Seattle will take a HB this draft too. Either someone to groom and wait in the wings behind Lynch, or someone to replace Turbo or C-Mike after this year.
One guy I really like later on is Miss St HB Josh Robinson. I know his 40 time wasn’t good at the combine, I do believe though that he got it down on his pro day, bur he runs faster than his combine time in pads anyways. Not only that, but he’s a fantastic pass catcher out of the backfield, a good blocker, runs behind his pads, doesn’t go down easily. He’d make a great 3rd down back.
IMO Seattle could carve out a ‘niche’ role or something unique for Robinson. Think Mike Tolbert minus 30 pounds and the B-Backs at Georgia Tech like Zach Laskey and Synjyn Davis.
Forgot to add that HB Josh Robinson has this ‘Seahawky’ personality more son than quite a few of this year’s draft entrants. And his back-story is jaw dropping. Shows that he can overcome anything. Also he’s only a jr.
I like Josh Robinson too. I would take him in other mocks but in this one Tevin Coleman dropped all the way to the fourth round so to me it seemed, with so many picks, I could afford the luxury.
ScottB, I used the Fanspeak database for this draft. I think all of these boards will have flaws because they are based on the personal preferences of someone (though Danny Shelton in the second round really doesn’t seem right). I think the fluctuation of player value has more to do with the incredible depth of this draft more than human error here.
I just did the DraftTV database and found different values at other positions. This one had more value placed on offensive linemen than Fanspeak, so I got different results that to me were just as satisfying. Here’s what I got:
ROUND 2 (31): Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma
ROUND 3 (95): Ali Marpet, G, Hobart
ROUND 4 (112): Tyler Lockett, WR, Kansas State
ROUND 4 (130): Byron Jones, CB, UCONN
ROUND 4 (134): Mitch Morse, OT, Missouri
ROUND 5 (167): Max Garcia, C, Florida
ROUND 5 (170): Henry Anderson, DE, Stanford
ROUND 6 (180): Leterrius Walton, DT, Central Michigan
ROUND 6 (209): Clayton Geathers, S, Wake Forest
ROUND 6 (214): Damian Swann, CB, Georgia
ROUND 7 (248): Rob Crisp, OT, N. Carolina St.
There are similiarities in the both the positions and players I’ve drafted here. But as you can see there is more emphasis on WRs early. Also, I made the Seahawks much deeper at DT in this draft than the other one because this board de-emphasized the value of Henry Anderson. I also got a nice player in Byron Jones who is also underrated on this board. So, as you can see, this draft gives the Seahawks a lot of flexibility depending on how the board ends up. I am definitely even more optimistic about the draft after doing this because I feel, more or less, Schneider and Carroll are pretty much going to be able to draft exactly what they want.
68 – R3P4 WR NELSON AGHOLOR USC
95 – R3P31 G ALI MARPET HOBART
112 – R4P13 CB RONALD DARBY FLORIDA ST
130 – R4P31 WR TY MONTGOMERY STANFORD
134 – R4P35 TE JESSE JAMES PENN STATE
140 – R5P4 S KURTIS DRUMMOND MICHIGAN ST
167 – R5P31 CB ERIC ROWE UTAH
170 – R5P34 CB NICK MARSHALL AUBURN
180 – R6P5 OT D.J. HUMPHRIES FLORIDA
209 – R6P34 WR TRE’ MCBRIDE WILLIAM & MARY
214 – R6P39 OLB JORDAN HICKS TEXAS
248 – R7P31 FB ZACH ZENNER SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
I traded back with Oakland for R3P4 and R5P4. I still got Agholor and Marpet. Then I picked up Montgomery to return kicks. Marpet is usually gone by pick No. 80.
I really David johnson as a mid rd rb. I could see him replace turbin after next year and be the returner this year. Great all around rb and high sparq and character.
Here’s my 7-round draft on Fanspeak:
63: WR NELSON AGHOLOR
95: RB TEVIN COLEMAN
112: G ALI MARPET
130: TE JEFF HEUERMAN
134: WR CHRIS CONLEY
167: OT ROB CRISP
170: S ADRIAN AMOS
180: C GREG MANCZ
209: DE FRANK CLARK
214: QB SHANE CARDEN
248: WR CHRIS HARPER
And here’s my self-critique. I went heavy on quality WR. I also had a couple of luxury picks in ECU QB Shane Carden and OSU TE Jeff Heuerman (who is a great blocker, athlete, and catches everything). I’m happy with my O-line picks, but could have added a CB and DT in place of Carden and Heuerman. There were a few small-school players (like Tyrell Williams) who I couldn’t find on the board and would have drafted in place of some of the lower picks. I’d love to see Tevin Coleman backing up Beastmode. I think Frank Clark is gonna be a star in the NFL if he stays on the straight and narrow.
That thing is addicting. I’d just feel better if I was sure the people doing the “big board” ranking were (a) up to date and (b) knew what they were doing. I’d be dancing for joy if our draft looked like my simulated draft:
Dorial Green-Beckham, WR
Byron Jones, CB
Arie Kouandjio, G
Clive Walford, TE
Daryl Williams, OT
Xavier Cooper, DT
Tyler Lockett, WR
Andy Galik, C
Shaq Riddick, DE/OLB
Nick Marshall, CB/S
I went way heavy on offense, but good OL just kept cropping up. I feel good about the ability of the C/G picks to contribute right away, while looking to Okung’s backup maybe with Williams. One almost-ready CB in Jones, one project in Marshall who could bump to S. The big WR who could either be an all-pro or a complete dud, and the speedy shrub WR to also be a returner. Depth on the DL. I only ran six rounds, so RB/LB/S depth is going to have to come late or via UDFA. Tempted by Josh Robinson at RB from Miss St.
That’s a lot of fun
63 – WR Nelson Agholor
95 – OT Ty Sambrailo
112 – DT Marcus Hardison
130 – CB Steve Nelson
134 – WR Tyler Lockett
167 – OT Mitch Morse
170 – CB Nick Marshall
180 – C Max Garcia
209 – SS Clayton Geathers
214 – WR George Farmer
248 – DE Shaq Riddick
I love doing these. Here’s mine. With this draft, hopefully the OL would be solidified for a few years with cheap draft picks now at LG, C, RT. I passed on Lockette in the 3rd thinking there are just too many good WR’s and then he fell to my NO pick. I was able to get Smelter later so we could redshirt him this year. Took a few swings at safety as I didn’t find any CB values I liked a lot.
63: R2P31
OT TY SAMBRAILO
COLORADO STATE
95: R3P31
C HRONISS GRASU
OREGON
112: R4P13
WR TYLER LOCKETT
KANSAS STATE
130: R4P31
S CLAYTON GEATHERS
UCF
134: R4P35
QB SHANE CARDEN
ECU
167: R5P31
DT XAVIER WILLIAMS
NORTHERN IOWA
170: R5P34
WR DEANDRE SMELTER
GEORGIA TECH
180: R6P5
S ADRIAN AMOS
PENN STATE
209: R6P34
DE SHAQUILLE RIDDICK
WVU
214: R6P39
TE WES SAXTON
SOUTH ALABAMA
248: R7P31
RB TREY WILLIAMS
TEXAS A&M
Rob, any word on how Nick Marshall’s pro day or workouts have gone re a move to CB? What do the scouts think of his footwork, etc? He is certainly a Seahawky kind of guy, but switching positions rarely works at this stage.
It’s cool that everyone’s loving the draft simulator so much. It’s definitely fun to play GM. Makes you wish you could be in charge of a team.
I love this thing. For those wondering, it doesn’t go straight down the list of prospects – it’s trying to simulate that Team X might prefer Prospect Y over Z even though they rate Z higher. Tats how sometimes you get oddities like Shelton at pick 63.
Buffalo DT Kristjan ‘Moose’ Sokoli is being brought into the VMAC sometime in April.
Looks like either him or W. Georgia DT Tory Slater could be the Seahawks target at DT later in the draft.
Of course there’s going to some other names to. But they do appear on the hunt for these types of defensive lineman.
Two very athletic prospects for sure.
They were also one of seven teams who checked out DT David Irving yesterday in California. He missed the entire 2014 season after being dismissed from Iowa State.
Almost 6 foot 8 inches tall with 87 3/4 wingspan. Can tie his shoes while standing up…
Whoa! I’ll check him out for sure! Thanks for the heads up. Looks like one of these 3 will be their selection for that 3-tech/hybrid role.
I think ‘jeff’ is a better nickname for Sokoli
Wasn’t it SPAcoli?
SPIcoli, but yes lol. I just can’t read Sokoli with hearing Jeff Spikoli in my head
without hearing*
If they take him when we can all point and say ‘Hey….I know that dude.’ LOL.
Now that we’re getting closer to showtime, I’m seeing more 7 round mocks including comp picks. Would someone mind giving me a heads-up on the following prospects that some ‘experts’ have us picking please:
– FS Detrick Bonner, Virginia Tech
– CB Garry Peters, Clemson
– C Chad Hamilton, Coastal Carolina
– LB John Timu, Washington
Thank you much.
Detrick Bonner- a hybrid CB/S. Was supposed to be a SPARQ demon. And maybe he is, but I haven’t checked. I really like Kurtis Drummond as a potential Seahawks, and then Adrian Amos,
CB Garry Peters- Does he have 32′ inch arms? He w’s a guy I liked quite a bit last year. Was disappointed in him this year. He’s decent, but there’s a handful of more athletic ‘Seahawky’ corners.
C Chad Hamilton- Supposed to be an athletic freak. Don’t know a whole lot more.
LB John Timu- A leader through and through. I could see this guy more than the other 3 names. STs ability, old school LB, plays with his hair on fire, highly competitive, a tackling machine that can line up a defense. From Long Beach, California.
I like Tim, N. Texas LB David Mayo, and SD St LB Derek Largent for a priority UDFA this year. One of those 3 guys.
Thank you so much V12; I knew you’d be able to help! I looked up a little on C Chad Hamilton and I’m thinking he’s one I might look into a little bit more…
Your more than welcome. Any time man.
Let me know what you find out about Chad Hamilton.
Slight note on Ty Sambrailo at the Garret Grayson pro-day: he was hiking the ball to the QB prospect. Probably doesn’t mean much, but you never know with the Seahawks and their O-line.
Thanks for the heads up. He’d be a massive center — but you’re right about the Seahawks. Wouldn’t be a total shocker.
Interesting info Tanner!
So I did mentioned a few days ago about a mock draft with 32 different people representing all the teams, taking on the role of GM as it were for 7 full rounds. Trading allowed but for this years picks only.
Here’s how the first two rounds panned out. With the Bucs GM being high on Mariota, it led to an interesting dynamic to see who would pick him up.
Round 1
1. Tampa Bay – Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon
2. Tennessee – Leonard Williams, DE, USC
3. Jacksonville – Dante Fowler, DE/OLB, Florida
4. Oakland – Amari Cooper, WR, Alabama
5. Houston – from Washington – Jameis Winston, QB, Florida State
6. New York Jets – Vic Beasley, OLB, Clemson
7. Chicago – Kevin White, WR, West Virginia
8. Atlanta – Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia
9. New York Giants – Danny Shelton, DT, Washington
10. St. Louis – La’el Collins, OT, LSU
11. Cleveland – from Minnesota – Jaelen Strong, WR, Arizona State
12. Minnesota – from Cleveland – Brandon Scherff, OT/G, Iowa
13. New Orleans – Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State
14. Washington – from Miami – Marcus Peters, CB, Washington
15. San Francisco – DeVante Parker, WR, Louisville
16. Miami – from Washington – from Houston – Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Missouri
17. San Diego – Jay Ajayi, RB, Boise State
18. Kansas City – Ereck Flowers, OT, Miami
19. Cleveland – from Buffalo – Alvin “Bud” Dupree, OLB, Kentucky
20. Philadelphia – Randy Gregory, OLB, Nebraska
21. Cincinnati – Shane Ray, DE, Missouri
22. Pittsburgh – Owamagbe Odighizuwa, OLB, UCLA
23. Detroit – Malcom Brown, DT, Texas
24. Arizona – Eli Harold, OLB, Virginia
25. Carolina – Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford
26. Baltimore – Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest
27. Dallas – Preston Smith, DE, Mississippi State
28. Denver – Maxx Williams, TE, Minnesota
29. Indianapolis – Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State
30. Oakland – from Green Bay – Cameron Erving, Offensive Line, Florida State
31. New Orleans – from Seattle – Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
32. New York Jets – from New England – Melvin Gordon, RB, Wisconsin
Round 2
1. Tennessee – Jake Fisher, OT, Oregon
2. Tampa Bay – DJ Humphries, OT, Florida
3. New York Giants – from Green Bay – from Oakland – Landon Collins, S, Alabama
4. Kansas City – from Jacksonville – Breshad Perriman, WR, UCF
5. New England – from New York Jets – Jalen Collins, CB, LSU
6. Washington – TJ Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh
7. Chicago – Mario Edwards Jr., DE, Florida State
8. Green Bay – from New York Giants – Benardrick McKinney, ILB, Mississippi State
9. St. Louis – A.J. Cann, OG, South Carolina
10. Atlanta – Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart
11. Cleveland – Eric Kendricks, LB, UCLA
12. New Orleans – Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon
13. Minnesota – Shaq Thompson, LB, Washington
14. San Francisco – Denzel Perryman, LB, Miami
15. Miami – PJ Williams, CB, Florida State
16. San Diego – Carl Davis, DT, Iowa
17. Jacksonville – from Kansas City – Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana
18. Buffalo – Laken Tomlinson, OG, Duke
19. Washington – from Houston – Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State
20. Philadelphia – Nelson Agholor, WR, USC
21. Cincinnati – Jordan Phillips, DT, Oklahoma
22. Baltimore – from Detroit – Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn
23. Arizona – TJ Yeldon, RB, Alabama
24. Pittsburgh – Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut
25. Carolina – Duke Johnson, RB, Miami
26. Detroit – from Baltimore – Ameer Abdullah, RB, Nebraska
27. Denver – Nate Orchard, DE, Utah
28. Atlanta – from Dallas – Stephone Anthony, LB, Clemson
29. Indianapolis – Hau’oli Kikaha, OLB, Washington
30. San Francisco – from Green Bay – Danielle Hunter, DE, LSU
31. Seattle – Ty Sambrailo, OT/OG, Colorado State
32. New York Jets – from New England – Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami
Looks like fun! Interesting to see how much talent might be available between pick 40 and pick 52. We’re not going to trade-up though… correct?
I was so tempted to attempt a trade. Agholor, Collins (probably a bit too much to give up), Jones. From what I’ve been learning from Rob is to let it come to you, with so many options later on then why give up picks unnecessarily. I was torn between Sambrailo and Lockett, kind of thinking now I should have gone for the latter but never mind 🙂
Oh and “With the Bucs GM being high on Mariota, it led to an interesting dynamic to see who would pick him up.”
By him, I meant Winston
A question for Rob and other Lockett fans: what does Lockett offer that isn’t also available—even better—in receivers likely near the same spot in the draft, as well as lower in the draft? You are pushing Lockett as if he is unique, and I just don’t see it. I think a rd. 2 is too high for a complementary slot WR/return guy. And Lockett doesn’t even have the best hands. Is he 4+ rounds better than Mario Alford, Chris Harper?
Taking Lockett in rd. 2-3 also reduces the ability to fill the other needs. And even if you are thinking WR, taking Lockett means you prefer him to McBride, Bell, Waller, Lippett and Conley, each of whom are closer to #1 type WRs. Could they get a couple of WRs between rds. 2-4? Sure, but why spend the high pick on Lockett, if you can get that slot/return type much lower.
And is Lockett better than Agholor, Dorsett or even DGB? I don’t think so.
Route running, his work ethic, competitiveness, he’s just a natural. IMO there’s more to being unique than combine numbers and size.
How are Lippett, Waller, and Conley closer to no 1 WRs?
Does it really matter if Seattle takes a guy in round 2,3,4, that have a 5,6,7 round value based on what the experts say? If that’s their guy, that’s who’ll they take. We get so caught up in this perceived value thing, when really the only thing that separates a prospect is how one team views hum.
Lockett is a slot WR. Would he be a weapon? Sure.
But look at the Patriots, which I consider slot/smurf headquarters. They have Edelman and Amendola but always try to have a longer, taller outside #1 types (bigger than 5-11, some deep threat ,some possession) to balance it out: LaFell, Aaron Dobson, Brian Tyms. And Gronk. When they have fielded only their smurfs, they have not been nearly as productive. The Hawks have Baldwin as a pretty reliable slot. They got Graham. So they are missing the outside #1. They had it with Sid Rice, Tate (inside +outside). All I am saying is they need to replicate that kind of diversity—without replicating Baldwin.
Lippett is underrated as a WR. I think he can be developed into a Michael Irvin type. Waller, into a VJax. Conley has prototypical everything. McBride is all-around. Bell is hard to pigeonhole, simply a playmaker.
These guys are not just SPARQ, they are players.
Lippett isn’t bad. Not sure he’s got the speed to get by NFL corners.
Waller may never pan out. I wonder about his desire. Is there any fire in his belly?
Conley’s a workout warrior. Tape is inconsistent. If he struggles in SEC play, he might in the NFL too.
I like McBride. But I’m with Rob. Does that small school talent equate into more than a mid round pick?
And Kenny Bell I’m a fan of as well. I actually like him the best out of the receivers you named.
Conley is just SPARQ and Waller is just size.
Waller is certainly raw, but his hands and ability to high point the ball make him more than just size. And running a sub 4.5 40 for a guy that big? I think he’s worth a shot if even if it’s unlikely he can produce right off the bat like Lockett could.
I like all these guys, but I don’t think any of them are better than Tyler Lockett. Kenny Bell maybe. IMO.
Lockette is productive. his all purpose yards are outstanding, his receiving yardage is very good. He’s much more polished than he’s being credited for in this sub thread, imho. He’s a productive, competitive WR with good route running skills, a good work ethic, and NFL pedigree. He’s as polished and complete of a WR prospect you can find in the mid rounds that still has some room to grow.
I don’t think the size issue should factor. You want good players, first. Figuring out where they fit is a problem coaches dream of having.
I am not sold on Lockette as much as some of you. I looked at his tape and I lsee a lot of body catches.
I would spend another pick and move up to mid 2nd rd to grab Agholor. He catches with his hands in traffic, and to me is a better prospect than Lockette.
I tend to fall in this camp as well. He also seems to double-catch a lot of balls and not get them cleanly right away which could be due to small hand size. I wouldn’t mind him later, but 2nd rd is too rich for me.
For me it’s not about trying to find a #1 type. You’re looking for a guy who ticks a lot of the boxes Seattle likes. For starters he is possibly the best receiver in this class with the exception of Amari Cooper at getting open. That ability to burst off the snap and get into a quick break is crucial and something they’ve coveted over the last few years. He is a sudden athlete and that is the top thing I’ve started to look for in a Seahawks receiver.
While not the biggest he is immensely competitive. He’ll high point the ball, make difficult catches. He’s not the best downfield receiver in the class but he’s one of them. You’re also getting, for me, an impact player. Much more so than a McBride or Waller who I like. Waller might need three years to develop. Seriously. McBride I really like but he’s a small school guy and that in itself carries a degree of unknown. Lockett has competed at a good standard of college ball and broken nearly every receiver record at K-State. That’s another thing Seattle looks for. And then you throw in his fantastic character and personality. He’s a top-ten pick for character.
You’re also talking about a week one kick returner who can genuinely impact games. A major need and positive for Lockett. He’s not the only return specialist in this class, but he’s probably the best. Add that to a polished, technically gifted, sudden receiver package and you’re looking at a guy who can impact games in many different ways. If the Seahawks don’t love this guy I’ll be shocked. Doesn’t mean they’ll take him. He might be off the board at #63. But if he’s there he’ll be in the conversation IMO.
Finally, to answer this: “And is Lockett better than Agholor, Dorsett or even DGB? I don’t think so.”
I would take Lockett over DGB any day of the week. But the main point is, Agholor and Dorsett won’t be there at #63 in all likelihood and if DGB is it’s for a reason and I’m not touching him if he’s fallen that far.
I would just like to add that in reading this site for the last few years, we have really become enamored with SPARQ, measurements, etc. in our quest to determine what the Hawks might like. While these things will assuredly be considered to some extent, many posters now seem to almost be overlooking one huge aspect….Who is good at playing football. I don’t care what your body is…you have to be good at playing football. Lockett is a dang good football player.
It’s a fantastic point sdcoug. SPARQ is but one factor of the whole process — and yet it’s almost considered the be-all and end-all. People are highlighting prospects because of their athleticism and taking the view they’ll be possible Seahawks targets on face value. Ultimately the tape and production on the field has to be the defining factor.
It seems to me that it was Hugh Douglas a few years ago that was pretty much the poster boy for that point of view, Rob. Blew it up at the combine but was not a good player.
Hugh Douglas was a really good player from a small school. Are you thinking of Mike Mamula?
Yes, I believe you are right. My bad.
So who are the worst SPARQ athletes that the team has picked over the last few years? Have there been any that have been below average?
Winston Guy was the only one who was below average out of the 2012 draft. I’m working on 2013 and 2014.
Interesting. Thanks for doing that.
From recollection, they seem to go heavy sparq late in the draft in hopes of hitting a gem. Certainly not the be-all, end-all in the middle rounds.
Nail on head situation here. I have also been clamoring to forget “SPARQ demons” and just get some really great football players. I think we have outsmarted ourselves way too many times looking for SPARQ workout warrior champions as opposed to really outstanding football players. We got to 2 Superbowls with a QB who had amazing tape but less than ideal size, an RB who is a more impressive specimen in pads than on a running track, and a WR core of UDFA. Our biggest “SPARQ demons” are a 3rd string RB who is a perennial pine rider and Jeckyll and Hyde Luke Willson. Irvin has found a way to be pretty dynamic but we can ALL admit he is NOT at the intended position for which he is drafted. It is like mining for gold, utterly failing but then realizing you just discovered Aluminum instead.
Rob, I will agree with a lot of your assessment, but disagree that something similar can’t be found lower in this draft. I think day one return capability is there to be found. And if, for instance, they take Lockett and no other WR, does this upgrade the receiving corps to something special? I’m not sure. You’d have Lockett and Baldwin for slot/YAC. Optimistically, Matthews becomes the Sid Rice, Norwood something like McBride. Doug McNeil? Where is the consistent vertical threat?
Talent is talent. It comes in all shapes and sizes. Getting Jimmy Graham really lessens the need for a big wide-out, because he’s essentially a glorified WR. I think they do need a bigger wide-out to go with Matthews, but not an instant impact guy. If they find one great, but now they can be patient and take a developmental/high upside type.
And let us not kid ourselves about Matthews. He was a great mismatch against a shrimpy corner when he was a complete unknown. But as soon as Browner shadowed him he disappeared. I want to see a couple of displays against week to week competition with some solid consistent production before I wedge him in to the mainstays. We are still looking for the answer to question if I am being honest
I believe Lockett is good enough in terms of separation to line up anywhere and offer some deep threat too.
Here is some very detailed analysis of Lockett on film, over an hour’s worth of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPMFS6foVM
I have some of the same concerns about him. He doesn’t always get open. Struggles with press coverage and physical corner. Does a lot of body catching. He is far better on short routes and screens—he is better suited as a slot. So again, I think he’s good, but not uniquely special.
you’re looking for a WR that makes the group “Special” at 63? Good luck. The prospect you’re looking for is in the top 10. Everyone else, including Lockette, is a projection, and Lockette at least has production on tape and in the stat column.
I agree with you. You can say talent is talent and we are looking for plain good football players, but there is a reason that dang good shooting guards in the NBA draft are available in the 2nd round but even project 7-footers don’t last past the lottery: they just don’t make many of ’em.
Lockett is a smurf. He has value, but he doesn’t seem so special that you need to spend a high pick on him. Edelman went in the 7th, Amendola and Welker and Baby Hawk all UDFA. They are valuable football players, but quick 5-9 guys aren’t so rare. You take him at #95 you are basically saying he’s Steve Smith, and as I’ve been watching for the past dozen years or so, there was only one of him.
I meant if you take him at #63.
Point being, even if I agree with you, Rob, and I have no good reason not to, I’m not sure what you describe is 2nd-round valuable. Players can be pretty useful and not be worth a 2nd.
I wouldn’t be shocked if he lasts until the 3rd or even 4th. But an early second round pick wouldn’t shock me either.
Well, Al Davis thought a really good kicker was worth a 1st at one time, too. It wouldn’t surprise me. Every once in a while an owner/GM/coach decides that one specialized area/skill is suddenly very valuable and they spend a lot of resources on it.
If the Seahawks see Lockett the way Rob sees him, they will take him at 63. People forget this team doesn’t really mess around with getting the best value if they really like a player.
Good point – I just saw this tweet – “it’s not a reach if it works out.”
That’s exactly my point. Thank you Miles.
What’s a reach? Seriously. Who are we as fans to say what constitutes a reach? There’s guys that have 7th round value right now that deserve to go in the 4th and 5th rounds. Guys who have 6th round value that deserve to go in the 4th round.
For example. I hear friends and people on the internet saying ‘I don’t want this guy in the 3rd round, but the 4th round would be okay.’ What? Is there a difference?
2 questions for me. What round do you need to take lockett, and his alternates like mcbride? Hawks so good at this game. Second, is it also about making a choice like good OL in the 2nd and settling for a different WR later like mcbride or waller rather than lockett in the 2 slot?
For me, besides being a receiver who can make plays, it is about the PR and possibly KR special teams contribution. Lockette can be a difference maker, but I also think Agholor or Kenny Bell also have the abilities to be a solid receiver as well as a returner for this team. I believe McBride has some return experience, but I’m not sure. With Graham being added, the WR position has to be able to play special teams.
It sounds like PRich may not be ready to go at the beginning of the season, so with Walters gone, we’ll need someone to handle that work – and no, I don’t think it should be Baldwin.
I would take many of the receivers on the list over DGB – he may be okay for someone, just not Seattle. I don’t see the grit that Seattle prefers. I think the taller receiver can be drafted in the 5th or 6th and can be a project.
Rob, I’m curious. What was James Carpenter’s SPAWRQ score when he came out?
I don’t have the number but it wouldn’t be great. They took him for the massive size/length combo and his fantastic track record as a run blocker. Easy to forget that Carp played left tackle during the Mark Ingram Heisman year and was quite frankly sensational for Alabama. They wanted to improve the run blocking because in 2010 they were ranked #32 in run offense (hard to imagine now). I think we have to remember this when we project SEA now. SPARQ is good but a lot of their early OL picks (Moffitt, Britt, Carp) were not SPARQ demons.
Great points.
I’m asking, because it may just be me, but Oklahoma’s OL Darryl William reminds me ALOT of Carp, but with a nastier disposition, He’s such an intense, lead by example kind of guy to. Could he be an option for Seattle at no. 63 or no. 94? He also has that massive/length combo going for him, and we all saw what freshman HB Samaje Perine did this year behind him.
Of course.
Thanks buddy. Nice to know. Definitely will go back and watch some more of him again.
I wonder of its a like for like comparison as well. Though Darryl has high praise for his leadership role with his team and carp always had a lack of fire in his belly.
I wonder too. As “sensational” as Carp might have played for Alabama there was something that caused Saban to shake his head in disbelief when he got picked in the first. Saban obviously didn’t feel he was first round worthy.
Saban was sat next to Mark Ingram, who was yet to be picked. That’s probably the main reason he was shaking his head.
So you’ve seen reports like this one where Saban had mouthed “James Carpenter was drafted in the first round?” while shaking his head?
http://larrybrownsports.com/football/nick-saban-mark-ingram-shocked-james-carpenter-was-drafted-in-first-round/65754
The video link is no longer working to that article but I found a clip on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynvbg3QzpDM
It seemed to me like he was reacting in stunned disbelief to Carp being picked in the 1st more than Ingram not being selected yet. Surely he didn’t think the hawks would take Ingram when they already had Marshawn.
At the time there was some feeling that Seattle could take Ingram. I know it’s hard to believe now, but that was the case.
Ah, never heard that reason before. Interesting.
He was seen mouthing “James Carpenter was drafted in the first round?” while looking stunned. There are still clips of it preserved on youtube. It didn’t seem to be directed at Ingram.
It couldn’t have been because he was shocked the hawks didn’t pick Ingram when they already had Lynch.
It could’ve been. We’ll never know.
Carpenter was a fantastic left tackle for Saban.
David Irving had his pro day Irving (6-foot-7 3/4, 273 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.84 seconds on both attempts; he posted a 1.69-second 10-yard split, which is very good. He had a 38-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot-8 broad jump. He did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.53 seconds and the three-cone drill in 7.27 seconds.
Irving has an 87 3/4-inch wingspan. The only tape I can find against is Iowa he was a beast .he got kick off of Iowa st football team??? Representatives from seven NFL teams showed up Seattle was one
These are outstanding numbers for such a big guy. Add another 10-20 pounds on via NFL conditioning… he would be in the 290+ range. Not sure where he would fit on the DL, but they would be able to find a spot for sure.
Hey guys, aren’t we forgetting the uncertain status of Bruce Irvin and the Leo position? Everyone seems to be assuming that Irvin will be back next season, but that is far from a given thing. If Bruce’s 5th year option is to be picked up, it will be for what Prof Clayton estimates as $11/million/year!!!!!!!!!! This would make Bruce the highest paid player on the team, one million/year more than Sherm (at least until Russ signs). There is NO WAY that John is going to make Bruce the highest paid player on the team. Seattle can, of course, sign Bruce to a long term contract, instead of the 5th year option. But Wagner is about to sign a mega deal, and KJ already is very well paid, and the Seahawks probably can’t afford to pay all three of their LBs at the top of the scale. They may very well be forced to let Bruce walk, and suddenly, OLB/Leo becomes the highest priority.
…this of course is a projection, because Bruce will be back this year for his 4th (and possibly final) year, but if John is projecting that Bruce is one and done, then the draft might take a different turn.
Remember Bruce doesn’t play LEO, that’s Avril. Bruce plays SAM and is a situational pass rusher, a moveable chess piece on the football field.
Base salary wise it might be the highest salary on the team, not after you factor in player signing bonuses.
But I agree that 11 mil too much, but how is he coming up with 11 mil!!!? As a 4-3 outside linebacker the highest average salaries right now max out at 7 mil.
I don’t see how the league would see him as a defensive end when that’s not how he lines up even when he does rush the passer.
In a best case comp Irvin emerges as a dominant and versatile OLB that can rush the passer in the mold of Pernell McPhee and his average salary he just signed for was 7.7.
As far as getting his contract done, I’m not sure if Schneider has it in the plans this offseason. He went down a list of players he’d like to re-sign at a press conference yesterday and I was surprised to see him include Okung at the end but omit Irvin.
I certainly haven’t forgotten about Irvin’s future status. I’m frankly pretty concerned about it. That is why I hope they address pass rusher in a more significant way than most seem to project. It is best that they have replacements for Schofield as well as a possible heir apparent to Irvin, even if they ultimately keep Irvin. Is this too much? I don’t think so. You can never have too little pass rush.
Irvin is in the unfortunate position of getting resigned after Wagner and Wright. Seahawks can’t afford to pay him after putting 14-15 million per year into the first two. Also Wagners position is the most important based on tackles, so Irvin and Wright shouldn’t be valued as highly as Wagner. Anyway I just don’t ser how the Seahawks can pay all three the 6-8 million they want. Also think there are a lot of linebackers coming out of college each year. Sometimes the rookies do really well at that position.
Irvin is also a bit older. Assuming we pick up his 5th year option he will turn 30 years old in the first year of his next contract. I like Irvin more than KJ, though, but the age factor is something to consider.
Well, we currently have an estimated cap space of approx 13M for 2015 and over 45M for 2016. There is enough to sign Irvin if they want to. The problem is that the list of players they need to pay is very long. RW and Wags are the easy part and it will not affect the Irvin pay. Irvin is part of a list that has Mebane, McD, Rubin, Sweezy, Turbo, Okung etc. Some will get paid and some will bring comp picks.
Is there any chance that Kevin Pierre-Louis can replace Irvin? I hear some noise along these lines, but I don’t think he is the same kind of player at all. I also don’t see Cassius Marsh becoming a great sack master/future replacement for Bennett.
Rob, I recall you being very high on Steadman Bailey a couple years ago. To my untrained eye he seems similar to Tyler Lockett. How would you compare those two?
Similar, with Lockett a bit more explosive. Both knew how to get open, played above their size and just made plays.
I was really interested in the mock draft simulators and loved what everyone got. I decided to do one of my own and am pretty interested in it. I chose people that we have all talked about and others that we have rarely mentioned to make a unique draft that can relate to the Hawks themselves.
Round 2 #63: G LAKEN TOMLINSON (DUKE)
Do not think he will fall to here, but would make a terrific choice. Did well at the Senior Bowl and plays best in a straight-ahead power game. Reminds me of Carpenter a bit as he isn’t the most athletic guy but still see great potential. If he is not here then Ali Marpet, Ty Sambrailo or Hroniss Grasu are great choices too.
Round 3 #95: C B.J. FINNEY (KANSAS STATE)
I was so close to drafting Hroniss Grasu, but he was taken a couple spots ahead. Andy Gallik was also gone. Finney works well because he has good size and the wrestling background Tom Cable loves. He won’t be anything spectacular, especially since he isn’t very athletic, but he should do a solid job leading the middle of the line.
Round 4 #112: WR TYLER LOCKETT (KANSAS STATE)
We have all had the conversation about Lockett. He is a solid receiver and a burner too. He can stretch the field and will definitely specialize on special teams at Kick and/or Punt Returner. If he is here, take him.
GETTING TO THE LESSER KNOW PROSPECTS
Round 4 #130: OLB JORDAN HICKS (TEXAS)
Hicks reminds me of Malcolm Smith and Bobby Wagner in a way. Similar height and weight to them but tested a little slower and had less bench reps. Tackles well by finishing rather than making huge hits and plays well against mobile quarterbacks. Played well in the senior bowl and has good instincts. Wish Ken Norton was still here to coach him up, but if he is trained like Wagner and Smith, he has the ability to play very well.
Round 4 #134: SS JAMES SAMPLE (LOUISVILLE)
I chose Sample over his more famously known teammate Gerod Holliman because of size and speed. He is 6’2, 209lbs and ran a 4.56 40. Much like star SS Kam Chancellor who measures at 6’3, 231lbs and ran a 4.59 40. Sample is known as a more polished player than his teammate Holliman, having more tackles and passes broken up while still having a decent amount of interceptions. Now that Jeron Johnson has signed with Washington, we need a new backup. I think James Sample can fill that role.
Round 5 #167: WR CHRIS CONLEY (GEORGIA)
I wasn’t too sure with this one. I counted him more as a luxury pick I guess, looking for someone who had good size, speed, and athleticism. I was really impressed with his combine and I liked some of the tape I watched. I think we could maybe go a different direction or even choose a different receiver, but I still like this pick a lot.
Round 5 #170: DT DARIUS PHILON (ARKANSAS)
I really like Darius Philon. He matches up very similarly to Jordan Hill (with Philon being 6’1 298lbs, running a 5 sec 40 and doing 26 reps at 225lbs while Hill is 6’1 303lbs, running a 5.02 40 and doing 28 reps), and we all saw how good Hill can be. A converted DE to DT, Philon has burst off the snap and uses his hands and moves well within the interior line. Helps contain the pocket and can disrupt plays in the backfield. This guy along with Hill can probably replace Mebane, McDaniel, and Rubin in the future.
Round 6 #180: QB BLAKE SIMS (ALABAMA)
There has been recent talk about us needing to find a backup QB, and I think Sims can be that quality backup. Sims is like a copy of Russell Wilson. Both are 5’11 and weigh in the 210lbs range. Both ran about 4.56 in the 40 and jumped around 116 inches in the broad jump. Both are escape artists who use their legs to convert 3rd downs and avoid huge sacks. Sims also is really great at using anticipation and timing to make great throws and has zip on the ball. He will be able to get familiar with the offense since it is made for Russell.
Round 6 #209: OT ROB CRISP (NORTH CAROLINA STATE)
We’ve talked about Crisp before. Guy who has enormous size at 6’8 and great length. Can use athleticism to slide to meet the defender and uses his long arms to his advantage. Tom Cable can do his thing and turn this guy into a beast. You can’t teach size.
Round 6 #214: CB JULIAN WILSON (OKLAHOMA)
This might be the most unique selection I chose, but this guy really interests me. Doesn’t have the stats that make him an intriguing prospect, but 6’2, 205lbs and passes the 32 inch arm test that PC and JS go after. Matches very closely with Sherman surprisingly. Wilson had a 4.58 40 with a 36” vertical and 125” broad jump while Sherman had a 4.56 40, 38” vertical and a 125” broad. Probably will have a huge chip on his shoulder to prove himself. Who knows, this guy may become the next Richard Sherman? And the funny part would be that they play on the same team!
Round 7 #248: DE MARCUS RUSH (MICHIGAN STATE)
Rush is a player who I view as another Bruce Irvin type. Can play both DE and OLB, but based on his speed alone, I think he makes a better DE. Matches up very similarly with Irvin, except for speed (Rush had 4.72 40 while Irvin ran a 4.41). Rush is 6’2, Irvin at 6’3 and both weigh around 245lbs. Rush has yet to do Bench presses yet, so we cannot judge him on strength yet. He totaled 37 tackles with 10.5 tackles for a loss, 7.5 sacks, three passes batted and two forced fumbles in 2014. He is described as a gritty player who is tough. I think PC will like him.
Please go ahead and comment what you think. I would love to hear your guy’s thoughts.
I wouldn’t be too happy if we draft Blake Sims. He might have some things about him that are like Russell, but I think there are better options out there if we don’t re-sign TJack.
I understand what you mean. Thanks for the thought!
For me, I would like TJack back at all costs. Russell’s been good when it comes to injuries, but you never know and I think TJack is a really good backup.
It also depends on how much TJack wants in order to be resigned. Would he take the veterans minumum? Last year his salary was 1.25 mil.
Sims is a good choice because he can potentially mimic Russ in this offense. He is a natural leader and a winner, but without Russ’s arm talent. Due to Sims’ limitations, he could probably clear waivers and be stashed on the Practice Squad. With T Jack returning, and BJ there as the emergency 3d QB, then whoever the Seahawks draft will have to go to the Squad, so they must draft with that in mind.
04/12/14 – Iowa State defensive lineman David Irving has been suspended indefinitely after being arrested following a large crowd disturbance in Ames on Tuesday night. Ames police have charged Irving with criminal mischief, disorderly conduct and fifth-degree theft. Police Commander Geoff Huff tells The Associated Press that pictures and video that appeared to show Irving holding an uprooted stop sign during the late-night disturbance helped lead to his arrest.. – AP Sports
11/14/13 – Iowa State defensive lineman David Irving was jailed Thursday after being arrested and charged with assaulting his girlfriend. According to an Ames police complaint, the woman told officers Irving held her down, cut off a large portion of her hair and punched her repeatedly in the leg on Wednesday. Police said Irving acknowledged arguing with the woman, who lives with him and is the mother of their child, but he denied cutting her hair. Police Commander Geoff Huff said the officers who responded to the scene noticed several bruises on the victim’s legs and a large scratched area on the back side of her leg.
Would Seattle take this guy??…. some character concerns and poor choices already littering his past.
That 1st one sounds like a kid having fun. Young and dumb. We’ve all been there right?
The 2nd one is a little more worrisome. Tough to say if they wouldn’t draft him because of that, but I wouldn’t put it past them.
I was trying to find out why he was suspended and tripped over this stuff. He might still be immature. This is where an interview or set of interviews with him could really seal the deal or kill the deal.
With the NFL hyper sensitive for DV…. he will be no higher than a 4th round pick, most likely 5-7th… after he had an outstanding workout.
Yeah that first one is a non issue for me and I think the team. Domestic violence alleged or real has been something the FO has been able to avoid so its hard to feel out their response to it. But…they were at his pro day so maybe its due diligence.
The measurements look great but past that it seems kind of risky to me.
the first one reminds me of Bruce Irvin knocking over the sign on top of the car.
The 2nd one would take him off my board completely.
Coach Mike Zimmer made it clear Tuesday that the Vikings will not trade Cordarrelle Patterson. ~ NFL.com
I wonder if he will be the latest Viking to land in Seattle via a trade?
I’m not a huge fan and I was going to make an informed comment about his stats blah blah blah, but honestly I have no idea why he was benched last year.
And without checking his drop rate or anything else he’s basically at Seattle level receiver right now including last year with 33 catches 350 ish yards one td….plus he’s a massively more dynamic Kr weapon the anyone on the team now.
As for a trade I still hope not. I think the trade for graham as Rob succinctly put it is saying there’s no one at 31 who is better then graham. But for Patterson I think Lockett could be an upgrade over the current roster with less draft capital or I’m still hoping for goodley in the fifth. Now if they are just keelhauling Patterson like we did with harvin, for a 6th? Sure.
Living in Minnesota, the word was that he’s not a great route runner and Teddy and Cordarrelle had trouble connecting on passes. With Teddy he’s a rhythm and timing kind of QB so you have to be at the spot and Cordarrelle was rarely at the spot where the ball was to be delivered.
Charles Johnson overtook him on the depth chart and became Teddy’s most reliable target.
Thanks for that!
I think Cordarelle is still kind of a project in that he doesn’t know how to do a lot of things on the field. He can use his speed well, he’s shifty and he’s a great kick returner, but that’s about it. I think the Seahawks would definitely be interested in getting him. There’s certainly ways he could be used in this offense, but I think his role would be reduced here.
I think the value would have to be low and the Seahawks would only give up a 6th or 7th for him. But, that being said, the Vikings probably aren’t going to trade a first-round pick with the potential Patterson has, and with such a nice contract right now, for a sixth or a seventh. Why would you want to get rid of a player like that? It saves you no cap space and it doesn’t benefit the team’s play unless there’s some kind of problem in the locker room.
Plus, if the Vikings are trading him I’m sure there’s a team out there that would outbid Seattle.
Watching him play the last two years, I think he fits best in a Percy role, the screens, reverses and lining up in the backfield.
I don’t know with how the offense changed for Percy if this team can handle another gadget player who doesn’t have true WR route running and skills. Granted you wouldn’t completely change the offense with Cordarrelle, but when he’s in there you would know for the most part what would be coming because his receiving skills are limited.
Here’s Bleacher report’s 7 round mock draft:
I thought this was quite an interesting mock and was pleased to see quite a few of the players rated by fans on it.
Here’s the full link with Round 2 onwards. Round 1 has indivudual write ups on the players picked.
Image
Seattle mock picks
63. Seattle—DE Preston Smith, Mississippi State
95. Seattle—WR Tyler Lockett, Kansas State
112. Seattle—T Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State
130. Seattle—RB David Johnson, Northern Iowa
134. Seattle—DT Rakeem Nunez-Roches, Southern Miss
167. Seattle—FS Detrick Bonner, Virginia Tech
170. Seattle—OL Mitch Morse, Missouri
180. Seattle—CB Garry Peters, Clemson
209. Seattle—WR Darren Waller, Georgia Tech
214. Seattle—C Chad Hamilton, Coastal Carolina
248. Seattle—LB John Timu, Washington
Any thoughts?
For the most part it would be an excellent haul, although there’s a few players they’re unlikely to take in there. But it’s perhaps not a realistic projection to have Smith, Lockett and Sambrailo all available to Seattle.
Rob…I know that the Bleacher Report is a bad word on this blog, but I still frequently go there, if not for the entertainment value and the extreme fulfillment my OCD receives by clicking through their “lists.” That said, I was looking at their most recent 7 round mock draft and it’s eerily similar to the guys you’ve been mocking to the Hawks. A quick recap:
Rd 2 – Preston Smith DE Mississippi State
Rd 3 – Tyler Lockett WR Kansas State
Rd 4 – Ty Sambrailo T Colorado State
Rd 4 – David Johnson RB Northern Iowa
Rd 4 – Rakeen Nunez-Roches DT Southern Miss
Rd 5 – Detrick Bonner FS Va Tech
Rd 5 – Mitch Morse OL Missouri
Rd 6 – Garry Peters CB Clemson
Rd 6 – Darren Waller WR GA Tech
Rd 6 – Chad Hamilton C Coastal Carolina
Rd 7 – John Timu LB Washington
You’ve written about most of these players on the blog leading up to next month’s draft. It seems as though BR feels the same way you do about the Hawks needs and their evaluation of certain players.
I think they’ve been pretty generous providing some of these players in the spots they’re taken.
Yeah…the rounds the players are taken might not be accurate, but the players they have the Hawks selecting are right in line with what you’ve been writing.
I don’t love Preston smith like maybe some people do. Just not impressed. John Timu? I’m a UW alumnus and I can honestly say that he isn’t very physical. He has awful hands as well. He jumped several routes, and dropped almost all of the . Most of his tackles are downfield 5-7 yards. I LOVE the kid’s heart and smarts. I don’t think he’s an NFL player.
It seems to me there are two over-arching approaches from front offices to the draft: the idealist or the realist, the egoist or the doubter. The idealist is so confident of his scouting that he identifies players and grades them on the board, and then is bound and determined to land that “perfect” player. The realist has seen the idealist fail so many times that he knows that even the best-scouted prospects are hit or miss. John has clearly been in the realist camp, more than willing to trade down and acquire more picks. Two straight Super Bowls have proven this approach.
I wonder if John is tempted to try idealism this time. Pete indicated today that the Seahawks should be re-signing a number of players: T Jack, Dobbs, Schilling, Jesse Williams, and using BJ as the returner. This obviously will make the number of “open” roster slots quite small. Even if John nails this draft, it is difficult to imagine more than half the eleven draft picks making the team, add maybe an UDFA or two.
So if ever there was a year for John to combine some of these picks to trade up to grab a player higher on their board, this would be it…. but I doubt it. I think John will continue to play the odds and, for example, draft two OGs and let them compete for the one roster spot, rather than trade up for that one OG they are in love wtih, and basically hand him the job. Always compete.
When they say they will sign those guys they tell you that they have bodies to compete in camp. Those are not guarantied contracts. They will gladly cut any of those guys for a rookie that shows he can do the same job at a lower cost or shows potential to be better at the same cost.
Signing players to non guarantied means very little.
Keep in mind John has said there are on 16 first rounders on his board. That implies to me that everyone else is in some way a developmental prospect. No matter how high John trades up he is not going to get one of those 16 guys. He is probably still better off playing the odds since the ‘perfect player’ is out of reach.
On a FA tangent, this is why Wis hasn’t signed yet –
Wisniewski is recovering from shoulder surgery after last season when he played with a torn labrum. The former second-round pick of the Raiders has made visits to the Seahawks and Bucs, and the Rams and Chiefs are also known to be interested. No team has been willing to meet his request of $4 million per season and it could be he winds up on a one- or two-year prove-it contract.
http://www.joebucsfan.com/2015/03/stefen-wisniewski-and-the-bucs/
Hey Rob, a couple of questions if you get to this.
Do you think Red Bryant would be worth bringing back if for nothing more than his leadership alone? And what do you think will happen with Zach Miller? Do you think he’ll be scooped back up by Seattle at vet minimum or do you think Baltimore or New England will grab him for cheap depth?
And this morning we here directly from the man himself, Pete Carroll, that the following guys are expected to return to the team pending contract negotiations:
Tavaris Jackson
Kevin Williams
Steve Shilling
DeMarcus Dodds
Cassius Marsh
Jesse Williams
Jeremy Lane and Paul Richardson will probably miss training camp.
I thought Cassius Marsh was on his rookie contract for several more years, what’s going on there?
Yeah Marsh is just returning from IR. Glad to hear how bullish PC is about his return though. Said it would be like having an extra draft pick. I guess that’s his way of saying Marsh should pick up right where he left off at the beginning of his rookie season.
To add, I like all those moves. Shilling is just meh though, he probably doesn’t last through training camp.
I think Schilling will be better since he has now had more time to learn Cable’s blocking scheme.
Re-signing TJack means you can probably go UDFA at QB and Schilling helps the depth at guard, which allows some flexibility on drafting 3 OL guys instead of 4. Schilling is a good depth guy and since he has sometime in the system, that would be helpful going forward.
Saw that Wiz has a torn labrum he is recovering from – likely the reason SEA won’t give him the $4m he’s asking for.
Also, the KU guys were lighting up at their pro day today – and Seahawks scouts in attendance.
I’m waiting on my mock draft to see how the signings turn out.
Me and you both, regarding the mock drafts. Also the pro days too. There’s going to be quite a few project players/athletes in my mock. Swing for the fences type in the 2nd, and the ‘meat and potatoes’ guys so to speak in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
You seem to have a good take on guys who seem pretty “seahawky” – so I’ll be interested to see what your mock looks like!
The 6th round could be the round where we take 3 guys with an upside and the pundits will say Seattle overdrafted… my favorite thing to hear.
Just a reminder of the guys we signed to futures contracts – a few of these guys might pop. Bailey and McNeil are interesting to me – as well as Bronson.
DT Jimmy Staten
TE RaShaun Allen
S Dion Bailey
RB Demitrius Bronson
OG Nate Isles
WR Douglas McNeil
OG Drew Nowak
OT Justin Renfrow
DE Ryan Robinson
DE Julius Warmsley
LB Mike Zimmer
I agree about the 6th round. I actually think from our comp pick in the 5th through the 7th round they’ll take freak athletes that are sleepers, overlooked, athletic freaks from smaller schools.
There’s definitely some intriguing/exciting names on that list.
SEA was present at UNH pro day and worked out 2 players:
TE Harold Spears just under 6’4″ 252#, 20 BP, 4.70 40yd, 36″ VJ, 118″ BJ
WR RJ Harris 5’11” 200#, 4.51/4.55 40yd
Oh! You spotted one of my sleepers. TE Harold Spears who will be in my mock draft as an UDFA. Yes, I’m going to include 4-5 UDFAs.
I brought up RJ Harris and that Seattle was at his pro day, but maybe you misses it or didn’t see it.
It’s hard to keep up with your output!
Also I know you’ve brought up WR Kenny Cook (Gardner Webb) before but the deeper I look into him the more I like him. I’m sure you mentioned his cancer backstory and measurables, so my apologies if this is a repeat, but man! 6’4″ 220# with 34.5″ arms, 81″ wingspan and 10.5″ hands.
SEA was on hand for his pro day as well.
No apologies necessary. Cook would make a fantastic selection/addition.
I still feel that WR Chris Harper is a mid rounder, but there’s some very exciting prospects with good size at the end of the draft.
USCs George Farmer, G&Ws Kenny Cook as you’ve mentioned here, Mizzous Bud Sasser, possibly W. Oregon’s Tyrell Williams, this kid from Pitt St Gavin Lutman, Wisconsin-Whitewater’s Jake Kumerow, and there’s obviously some other names I’m forgetting or that will pop up.
BTW I read that Cook was a CB in HS and had something like 17 INTs his senior year. With his length, wouldn’t he make an interesting DB?
Also, speaking of converted DBs I’ve developed a mancrush on Nick Marshall and would really like him to be a Seahawk.
Very interesting tidbit there on Kenny Cook.
I feel the same way about Nick Marshall.
CC, did you notice that receiver from Pitt. St at the KU pro day? Gavin Lutman. I guess teams are besides themselves they didn’t know of this guy sooner. Is he the next John Brown + size?
That FB/move TE Jimmay Mundine looks like a freakish type of weapon.
And CB Dexter McDonald is a guy I read an article on earlier this year, buy didn’t really hear anything during the course of the year. I think he’s a CC transfer from the LA area, and has been referred to as possessing a ‘Brandon Browner style’ of play.
This CB Bryce Callahan from Rice is killing his pro day. Was quite good in the ND game this year I saw. Wonder what his arm length is?
Also of interest was this quote from PC regarding taking guys on defense. ‘We draft all types of guys & styles. We draft BPA and then worry about fitting them in.’ Lynden Trail anyone?
I recall that last season Lutman had a really big game. He’s tall enough, but I struggle on some of these non conference WRs because they haven’t had to compete against top notch DBs. I could see him being an UDFA and maybe he ends up as a practice squad guy somewhere. I guess, I’d look at McNeil on our futures roster before Lutman.
McDonald killed his pro day, I had hoped he might slide under the radar. I have to go take a look at Justin Cox from Miss St – he hit a low 40 and is 6’1, but have looked to see if he’s a good fit – looks the part. Julian Wilson from OK is another guy I want to review.
If anyone has anything on these guys, please let me know.
Pete likes unique guys – and this draft sure has a few possibilities for unique.
Good points on Putman.
I beleive Justin Cox has 30′ or 31′ inch arms. Julian Wilson has 32′ inch arms. Cox is a hybrid S/CB and Wilson was fantastic earlier in the year for Oklahoma but seemed to disappear along with the rest of his teammates. I was personally disappointed that DL Charles Tapper didn’t go pro. He’s got ‘Seahawk’ written all over him.
I’m having a hard time finding the arm measurements (length & wingspan) on some of these CBs.
Rice CB Bryce Callahan, UNLV CB Tajh Hassan, Marshall CB Darryl ‘Swag’ Roberts, Kansas CB Dexter McDonald, Boise St CB Cleshawn Page, Missouri S&T CB Will Brown.
Ugh – the curse of the 31′ arms!! Thanks for the head up on Cox. JWilson might be worth a look for depth since we lost JJohnson.
Thanks for the list of other CBs!
I found this to be highly interesting:
Kristjan Sokoli 6’6 7/8″ 295 4.84 40 31 reps 38 vertical 9’11” broad 7.19 3 cone
J.J. Watt 6’5″ 290 4.84 40 34 reps 37 vertical 10′ broad 6.88 3 cone
“Sokoli’s biggest issue on film is consistency. He has flashed the ability to penetrate and disrupt the pocket from the 0-technique position, and has chased down running backs to the edge. He has even been used to spy the quarterback against variable spread offenses before, too. His motor and off-field work ethic are big pluses as well, and he’d be a valuable addition to any roster.”
Doesn’t mean he’s going to be the same type of player in any sense, but the athleticism and motor are on par. His production from the nose tackle spot is basically the same numbers Dontari Poe had as well. I like Sokoli, Tory Slater, and another freak I’ll bring up as Seattle’s DT-hybrid/3-tech selection this year.
From a purely athletic perspective, Sokoli and Riddick are the most interesting edge prospects to me.
As for a 3T, not sure how important that is relative to some other needs, but I keep coming back to Marcus Hardison.
I didn’t realize that Sokoli was that tall. Riddick is intriguing. I’m a big fan of Marcus Hardison as well.
If you haven’t checked out Tory Slater’s YouTube clip yet, I recommend it. The last part of that video is hilarious. He’d fit right in.
I have just finished the 6th round of my PSD mock draft I was telling you guys a couple days ago. We take individual teams and we draft for them. It started before the Graham trade so I still had the #31 pick and a need for a big target. So here’s what I have done.
I traded the #31 pick
#41 – Nelson Agholor WR USC
#63 – Ty Sambrailo OL Colorado State
#72 – Clive Walford TE Miami
#125 – BJ Finney C Kansas State
#154 – Anthony Chickillo DL Miami
#159 – Garry Peters CB Clemson
#165 – Dechane Durante DB Northern Illinois
I love Agholor. I think he’s one of the better return mans in the game and probably the better WR of the return guys. Sambrailo can play RT if needed or mainly LG for us. Walford becomes basically our version of Graha. Obviously not as good but also another guy I am a huge fan of. I was then able to get Finney and basically complete my offense. I wanted to go into the draft helping Wilson, I didn’t quite mean to go this far. That being said I think it has worked out. Then I went and drafted Chickillo. Henry Anderson was actually taken 3 picks before I drafted Chickillo. I was super disappointed. Peters played a lot of bump and run and cover 2 in college. He’s got the size and length Seattle likes. He’s also projected as 6th round pick. I accidentally found this guy a couple days ago and I absolutely love him. I think he’s a serious target for Seattle. Dechane Durante wa a guy I’ve had my eyes on for a couple of weeks now. He played safety in college and has good size/length/ball skills. Some scouts said they couldn’t help but notice him when they were scouting Jimmie Ward last year. Some scouts also said that they couldn’t see any improvement from his freshman season to his senior season. That’s probably what is causing him to slide. He could be a backup safety replacing Jeron Johnson, or he could be our next safety converted into CB.
I have one pick left, #223. I am hoping to raft Rob Crips if he’s still available.
Also no comp picks were added to this draft.
Nelson and Ty in 2 and 3 and I’d be very happy.
Here is my latest mock…. if they land the top 3 guys, the rest of the draft is gravy
1st – Traded
2nd – Ali Marpet, C/G, Hobart Height: 6’4. Weight: 307. 40 Time: 4.98.
3rd – Eric Rowe, FS/CB, Utah Height: 6-1. Weight: 205. 40 Time: 4.45.
4th (1) Darren Waller, WR, Georgia Tech (TE) Height: 6-6. Weight: 238. 40 Time: 4.46..
4th (2) Davis Tull, OLB, Tennessee-Chattanooga Height 6-2. Weight: 246. Projected 40 Time: 4.59.
4th (3) Louis Trinca-Pasat, DT, Iowa Height: 6-1. Weight: 290. 40 Time: 4.96.
5th (1) Laurence Gibsen, OT, Virginia Tech Height: 6-6. Weight: 305. 40 Time: 5.04.
5th (2) Nick Marshall, CB/QB/ATH, Auburn Height: 6-1. Weight: 207. 40 Time: 4.54.
6th (1) Corey Grant, RB/KR, Auburn Height 5-9. Weight: 201. 40 Time: 4.30.
6th (2) Derrick Lott, DE, Tennessee-Chattanooga Height 6’4″. Weight: 314. 40 Time 4.99.
6th (3) Edmund Robinson, OLB/ILB, Newberry Height 6-3. Weight: 245. 40 Time 4.61.
7th (1) Mark Glowinski, OG, West Virginia Height: 6-4. Weight 307. 40 Time 5.20.
I keep thinking is Ameer Abdullah was available at the end of the 2nd round.. they might take him.
I seriously doubt he will be there, but he would be an upgrade at RB3 spot.
I can’t help but feel that way about Abdullah too. There’s something about the way he runs that reminds me of a Seahawks type of HB. Tremendous character, one of the highest rated, fantastic SPARQ score, crazy good production, great receiver, he’s a ‘weight room war daddy’ too. I know he has issues with holding onto the football, but that’s a coachable issue from a technical standpoint.
Kind of wondering if that’s who they’ve got their eye on at no. 63. I think he’ll be there.
I just can’t see them spending #63 on a 3rd string RB
I think you are the first one to include a critical need of backup linebacker. MVP Smith went to Oakland.
That’s part of the dilemma for sure. He could replace C-Mike or Turbo next year. But after just reading PCs current comments from the NFL meetings it seems like he’s giving C-Mike another shot this year. So if they do go HB at all this draft, it would probably be in the mid to late rounds.
But if there’s one team who values running backs and could afford a luxury pick like Abdullah, it would be Seattle. Am I expecting it? No. Could I see them doing something like this? Yes.
However, I still think LG is the biggest need right now.
I’ve been beating the drum for a back-up LB or two… for depth. They are only 6-7 deep now, so they need to add quality depth.
That’s one reason I like Davis Tull and Lynden Trail. They can both back-up the SAM LB spot and possibly play the LEO role. I was such a big fan of Trail before the combine, he did improve on his combine numbers a bit though. But that PC connection to Trail is still fresh on my mind. He’s the ultimate boom or bust player, with loads of potential and versatility.
We have KPL to play the outside. What we need is a MLB to back up Wags.
I’d agree with the back-up MLB. There’s some good UDFA types for that role, and I’m curious as to where Kansas MLB Ben Heeny and Baylor MLB Bryce Hager will go too.
I could also see KPL playing a little bit of SAM. But I’m wondering if maybe he’s a like replacement for Malcolm Smith at the WILL and on ST.
Trail has a ridiculous size / speed combo. He is very unique in these terms. Off the gridiron concerns are the only thing that is really knocking him down.
https://3sigmaathlete.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/edgesparq1.png
apparently, SPARQ doesn’t like him however.
His SPARQ numbers aren’t off the charts, but their not bad either. He did get his 40 time down to 4.7 something. Those SPARQ charts are just based off the combine. He’s yet to include the pro day numbers and guys not at the combine.
Wisniewski story from Tampa Bay site:
http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/3/25/8288273/stefen-wisniewski-recovering-from-shoulder-surgery
Thanks for the info. Makes sense why he is still on the market
The Bucs can have him.
I agree. I don’t know how realistic doing anything in FA is next year, but if you look at the list of potential FAs for next off-season, it’s insane. It’s like Christmas. So I really hope we roll over some of our cap toward next year and get one or two really nice players. Granted, there may need to be cap casualties next year, but we do have some older more expensive players coming off the books next off-season (Mebane, Okung, McDaniel, possibly Lynch, possibly Cary Williams).
Apparently Breshad Perriman ran in the 4.2s at his pro day. I had hoped he’d be available in the 4th or so over worries about his hands. He’s raw, but his athleticism is just unreal and I learned my lesson last year with Bryant and Moncrief that assuming poor hands and technique will be unfixable is a mistake.
4.26 unofficial to be exact.
However remember the bias of hand timing (average of 0.175s delay in starting timer when runner takes off results in quicker time). https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0164/8082/files/Combine_Hand_Start_v_FAT_Start_40_yard_dash_Analysis_Paper.pdf
It looked like a 4.4 or so.. from the vine posting.
The overall bias of hand timing is not precise, because you have a perception delay at the start, and can have either an anticipation error (faster) or a reaction time error (slower) at the end as well.
Says g ‘hand times are off by .15’ isn’t really accurate. They’re less accurate and tend to be faster. How much faster is variable.
There were supposedly scouts who had him in the freaking 4.1s, for example. Those guys have a horrible reaction time and probably an anticipation error to boot at the end of the run.. Anyway, takeaway is he’s fast and really, really has the elite athletic tools.
What??? He doesn’t PLAY at 4.3 or under. Joey Galloway at his pro day was hand timed at 4.16 by a seahawks scout… I would rather believe that time with the way he could run.
Hey John, I saw that tour said you live in Minnesota, so I’m wondering what you think about S Cedric Thompson?
I really like Kurtis Drummond and Adrian Amos, but I’m wondering if Amos ends up on the 3rd and if Philly lets Drummond get past them.
Here’s Thompson’s 2014 stats. 83 tackles, 3.5 TFL, 2 INTS, 2 FF, 4 passes defensed. He’s an All BIG 10 academic, BIG 10 sportsmanship honoree. Takes good angles to the ball, good pursuit speed, likes to swipe/ouch the ball out as do all the members of the LOB.
Pro day numbers: 4.38-4.44 40, 40.5′ inch vertical, 10’2′ foot broad jump, 21 reps on the bench press,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO04A8K9wiM#
I love Cedric Thompson. He was the 2nd best defender on the UM defense behind the MLB. He’s better at run support than in coverage. He loves to come down into the box. His hips are a little stiff and he struggles covering in space. To me he’s similar to Deone Buchanon who I loved last year.
I think he would fill in for Jeron Johnson nicely.
Thanks for the info.
Those who have followed Rob’s blog for a few years know that there have been lots of comments about how the Seahawks have benefited from Pete Carroll’s knowledge of prospects that he tried to recruit during his days at USC.
I was interested in what Brennan Carroll’s duties were at the U of Miami before he joined the Seahawks’ staff this year. Among other things, Wikipedia says he was the receivers coach and “recruiting coordinator”. So, while Pete’s familiarity with recruits may have decreased, it sounds like his son may be able to compensate. As you might expect, his Twitter account contains lots of stuff about Philip Dorsett and even a pre-trade tweet from a TE who graduated from the U — Jimmy Graham. Welcome to the Seahawks, Brennan!
P.S. Brennan played TE at Delaware and Pitt. Even though he is now coaching on the defensive side of the game, maybe he can convince Bevell that now that we have a TE weapon like Graham, we have to have an offense that takes advantage of his skills.
I saw that Kansas CB Dexter McDonald posted a 44′ inch vertical and 11’2 broad jump. Don’t know what his stats were or if there’s any tape on him, or his arm length. I did see that he quit the football team so he could become more mature. Hmmm.
By the way Davis Tull’s 10 yard split was 1.52 and is currently ranked 2nd behind Vic Beasley I. terms of SPARQ score. He’s such an exciting prospect, but Seattl3 hasn’t taken a DE with less than 32′ inch arms. Will be interesting to see if maybe he’s a SAM candidate that can occasionally put his hand in the dirt. Rob, what do you think of Davis Tull?
Keep an eye out for Garry Peters CB Clemson.
Justin Coleman of Tennessee is another CB that I like. Around the 5th round or so. He’s more of a slot corner but he’s aggressive. With the addition of Williams Seattle might want to target a slot corner. I like Burley but I think he was a downgrade over Thurmond, which of course is going to happen. If we can improve that we might. We do have Simon and we’ll get Lane back at some point.
Vol 12. You mentioned a big Offensive Tackle prospect that was ineligible for Texas last year who declared for the draft. You mentioned he was going to be at the Texas pro-day and was wondering if you had an update. He sounded like he had the perfect left tackle size.
Oh, you mean Desmond Harrison right? I couldn’t find his numbers yesterday. I’m wondering if, since Texas dismissed him he wasn’t allowed to participate at their pro day?
Thats too bad he looked interesting physically.
I’ve done several mock drafts recently, and I’ve noticed some patterns that might be promising for the Seahawks. Regardless of which draft database I use, Nelson Agholor has been consistently available at the end of round 2 and Ty Sambrailo has been available in rounds 4 and even 5. Is that reality? I don’t know, but the databases and draft software claim to be sensitive to player rankings and team needs. I’ve also discovered very good WR options in rounds 6 and 7 (players like Smelter, Conley, and Waller available). OT’s Gibson and Crisp also consistently fall deep in the draft. The trend that doesn’t help the Seahawks is the fact that centers are going early. I’m thinking Agholor in round 2 then a center in round 3. Grasu is almost always gone before pick #63.