Here’s one prediction — the beast will be back
Yesterday I wrote about the state of the roster as things stand. Today, I’m going to make some predictions for the rest of the off-season…
Jadeveon Clowney will return to the Seahawks
The Seahawks have about $21m in available cap space and they’re not spending it, despite multiple holes to fill (defensive tackle, backup quarterback etc). It’s pretty clear they are waiting for a resolution to the Clowney stalemate.
As Dianni Russini reported this week, they’re still interested. They have the best offer on the table. This is about Clowney deciding when he’s going to finally make a call after receiving a colder free agent market than he anticipated.
Eventually that time will come. The Seahawks must be pretty confident otherwise they’d have moved on by now and spent the money elsewhere. They could sign Everson Griffen and three other players tomorrow if they wanted. They haven’t, seemingly, because they’re willing to wait for a resolution with Clowney.
What will the contract be? My guess would be something short term at about the $16m mark. It might need to be two-years in order to manage the year-one cap hit but they can also add incentives to make it worthwhile for the player.
They’ll sign a cheap defensive tackle
Re-signing Clowney will limit their ability to do much more. His signing is crucial though to have any chance at improving the 2019 D-line performance (and again, that’s why they’re waiting for him). The remaining defensive tackle options are majorly limited. It basically comes down to Damon ‘Snacks’ Harrison, Brandon Mebane and Mike Daniels.
Both Harrison and Daniels have bounced around despite their reputations as big name players. The idea of signing either might be better than actually having them. Harrison flirted with retirement recently and that’s never a good sign when you’re a 350lbs nose tackle. Daniels is a strong personality and it’s unclear if he’s the kind of character the Seahawks want to bring into the locker room.
Presumably, both players will want a decent salary too.
For that reason, Mebane on a one-year deal might be the preferred option. There’s familiarity, he’ll not be expensive and they can manage his snaps. He’s 35-years-old but they featured Kevin Williams at a similar age in 2014.
There likely won’t be a big investment at nickel
It’s a nice thought that the Seahawks will make a statement by going out and landing a Logan Ryan or Darqueze Dennard. Ryan is basically in the same slow dance with Tennessee that the Seahawks are in with Clowney. He wants more than they are offering. Dennard failed a medical after initially agreeing terms with Jacksonville early in free agency.
The Seahawks have avoided paying even modest money for a nickel in 10 years of the Carroll era and it seems unlikely that will change now. If they do add anyone else, it’ll likely be a low level signing — especially if they bring back Clowney.
Carroll hinted after the draft that they had a plan at nickel, one that he didn’t want to reveal. My best guess is it includes finding a way to get Tre Flowers, Shaquill Griffin and Quinton Dunbar on the field at the same time when they want to use another corner. They could also incorporate some ‘big nickel’ concepts or three-safety looks — bringing Marquise Blair, Ugo Amadi and Lano Hill into play.
Either way, it seems unlikely they’ll be making any kind of big splash here.
They will turn to three familiar faces on offense
Geno Smith’s cap hit was $805,000 in 2019. It seems very likely that once the Clowney situation is resolved, he will return for a similar amount.
They need to sign another running back. Rashaad Penny will likely start the season on the PUP list and they can’t risk being a Chris Carson injury away from a Deejay Dallas and Travis Homer backfield.
I think Marshawn Lynch will return either just before the start of the season or after week one when his contract is no longer fully guaranteed. Look at this snippet from a Mike Silver article written a month ago:
Lynch would score four touchdowns in three games, but another Seahawks comeback fell short in a Divisional Round clash against the Packers at Lambeau Field.
Afterward, as Lynch praised the organization effusively during a postgame speech in the Seahawks’ locker room, Carroll agonized over the squandered chance to do something special in conjunction with the running back’s dramatic return.
There are two things to note here. Firstly, this is a different Marshawn. If he really did stand in front of the team after the Green Bay game and praise the organisation, that’ll have struck a chord with Carroll. Secondly, it’s pretty clear Carroll is also fond of the idea of winning another Championship with Marshawn.
It’s something to remember as this situation plays out. Also, there’s no danger of Lynch signing anywhere else. So they can wait this one out for a while.
Finally, I think there’s a chance Josh Gordon returns. The Seahawks could still use a third wheel to compliment Tyler Lockett and D.K. Metcalf. It’ll depend on how the team feels about his latest suspension (and he’ll need to be reinstated). Again though, he’s a cheap add who’s worth a camp and you’re not going to get a more talented player for the price.
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I really want Clowney, Gordon, Mebane, and Lynch back. Geno can come too just cuz I like when other seahawks make fun of him
Thanks for the daily content Rob
Thanks Kenny
I’ve also heard Marcell Dareus floated around as a DT possibility. I hope Gordon gets reinstated because I’d like him to be back and compete.
Marshawn being around for another year would be awesome on so many levels. He brought some juice last year to the fans and the team. Just having that personality around the team would be positive I think and make the season more fun. Plus, he’ll want to take care of his chicken and mentals.
Dareus is another option but he also seemed a bit done.
Could be. I’ve never been a huge fan of Mike Daniels. Always seems like a guy who talked a lot tougher than he played.
I do remember a game in Green Bay awhile back in which he just destroyed the interior of the Hawk OL, though….That was a clinic. He may not be the same player anymore…
Week one, 2017.
I’m interested to see who gets released at DT here soon.
Nazair Jones wins the prize…
Potential cuts from other teams you mean?
I think JS is waiting to see that too.
Yeah
I posted this in the last thread.
https://twitter.com/scott_peterson4/status/1257101450678853632
Some of those suggestions are just way out there though.
Akiem Hicks and Chris Jones as ‘cap casualties’? Come on.
They’re not the players you move to create space.
They’re not suggestions. They’re players who fit a possible profile. He outlines that in the caveats.
Then he should’ve added a disclaimer at the start saying he wouldn’t include unrealistic options. Because there’s no way… no way… Jones and Hicks are cap casualties. Might as well not have them on there. One of the replies to the tweets is eyes pointed at Akiem Hicks.
Again, as I said, don’t list them then.
You might as well tweet ‘potential targets’
(But some of these players obviously won’t be available)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa
Myles Garrett
Is Josh Schneidz’ brother?
Clowney/Griffin
Harrison/Dareus
Gordon
Lynch
That would be a dream completion to this offseason. I think we walk into next season a better team on paper with these moves. Just need some young guys to develop.
Hopefully guys like:
Collier
Green
Barton
Blair
Ursua
Jemarco Jones/Phil Haynes
Have the jumps that we need from them going into their deco and third years. Depth needs to get better for this franchise. We need our solid rotations back.
This all makes sense to me… even though I’d prefer they sign a veteran RB who isn’t quite so washed, excuse the blasphemy. If Gordon isn’t reinstated I could see the team trying to add some depth at WR by other means, they seem thin at the outside while having a ton of slot options.
Quick question for you Rob: if this is how the rest of the offseason shakes out, do you think the team is better than it was last year? (Obviously it won’t be as good as the best teams in the league regardless of what happens.)
I don’t think it’ll be significantly better, no.
Agree with all of this. Its been agonizing to watch but i think that it gets done.I still don’t understand why Clowney can’t visit teams doctors if nothing else to remove some doubt for wildcard teams and push along his decision. If Clowney gets his money spread out over a few years, do you think there is still a chance for Griffen too? Still some guys we can cut too.
The medical side of things with Clowney is a red herring.
This is all about him not getting what he wants financially and now waiting it out because he can. And that’s his prerogative. He will wait to see if anything else emerges. But it won’t.
I doubt they’ll sign both Clowney and Griffin.
Seahawks today also waived running back Adam Choice, defensive tackle Shakir Soto and linebacker Pita Taumoepenu along with Nazair Jones.
From Bob Condotta
Any thoughts on Corey Peters, DT, Arizona? Big 1T/3T with long arms that could be cheap.
Looks like a cap casualty as the oldest and most expensive DT on their roster. They also drafted 2 DT in the 4th round.
Iupati could recruit him with tales of veteran rest days.
Thanks Rob. I agree with all your predictions here.
So you think JS’s talk about wanting to have some $ available for cut players is a bit of a red herring for Clowney too?
Not really. I’m sure they do what some money to go shopping right before the season begins.
But that’s weeks away. And it’s not like a ton of great (or even good) players are going to suddenly be available.
Most of the NFL’s business is now concluded.
More like a purple herring. Sometimes John just says stuff. Like “continuity is important for the OL”. Then he goes out and let’s our two RT’s walk, and cuts our C and RG, forcing a majority overhaul of the line.
Did he mean what he said, when he said it? Maybe.
He’s not the most candid GM out there though. He’ll flat out refuse to talk about stuff that is common knowledge at times.
Bit off topic here, but holy s**t! The ’21 safety group looks incredible.
It does indeed. I wonder if Diggs is in the long term plan? Blair replaces Doog long term. Could be in the market for a FS
Names, V12? I can’t say I’ve seen much of the class but the early buzz isn’t there.
I think Lecounte is a bit overrated.
There is one from Texas and both safeties from Florida off the top of my head. Don’t remember the names. Sorry i’m “working” still haha
Oh man.
Jevon Holland, Oregon
Paris Ford, Pitt
Jacoby Stevens, LSU
Hamsah Nasirildeen, Florida
Kolby Harvell-Peele, OK St.
Richie Grant, UCF
Andre Cisco, ‘Cuse
Talanoa Hufanga, USC
Caden Sterns, Texas
Brad Stewart, Florida
James Wiggins, Cincy
Trevon Moehrig, TCU
Tariq Thompson, San Diego St.
And those are just some of the ones I’ve watched and know from last year.
Also, some really good tandems this year. TCU, USC, Oregon, Pitt, etc.
LeCounte is a bit overrated but man he’s hard to take your eyes off of.
* Nasirildeen is Florida St.
Stewart should’ve taken the next step last year. No idea why he didn’t but it wasn’t encouraging.
Jevon Holland was a 4.70 runner at SPARQ.
I’m interested to see more of Caden Sterns.
Shoulda been Shawn Davis & Brad Stewart at Safety for Florida. Stewart has always been inconsistent.
He might not test well, which is why I don’t think he’s a nickel like some do, but his ball skills and instincts are top notch.
If Sterns can stay healthy he has a chance to be a 1st rounder.
There’s not a ton at the top, but it gives me vibes of the ’19 WR class. I’m really digging this position group. I like the corners too. S. Carolina might have the best duo. Both them dudes should be day 1-day 2 picks.
2019 receiver group seems like a big stretch as a comparison.
Maybe.
You watched any of the DTs at all?
I watched Marvin Wilson last season. To me the DL group already looks a bit weak (again).
He’s a good one. Beleive he got a 1st round grade after last season by the draft advisory.
I haven’t been that impressed by it. Looks like a lot of developmental guys at EDGE. I’m interested to see Christian Barmore at ‘Bama & Tonga at BYU. UCLA has Odighizuwa’s brother. Has no idea what he’s doing, but his length jumps out. There’s something there though for sure. Wanted to like LSU’s DT more than I did.
The Odighizuwa brothers all came through the middle school I teach at. I’ve taught and/or coached 3 of the 4. Great family who has overcome an incredible amount. When I was coaching one of the older brothers, young Osa would always come hang out around practice. Kid was in 3rd grade I think, but was so huge everyone thought he was one of the middle schoolers! Some amazing bloodlines with those 4.
Another guy is Marcelino Ball from Indiana. He’s 6’0″ 223 lbs and is insanely athletic. He did a 365 lb power clean and 405 lb bench. He’s also been tracked at a top speed of 22.74 mph and ran an a 4.41 40. Probably someone to watch.
The CB class is deep and talented as is LB…
The only deep classes I see, at the moment, are WR and TE.
I would love to have Marshawn back again. Even if the tread on the tires is getting bare, he is just such an iconic presence. What is your sense on whether or not he would be okay with playing 6-10 snaps per game tops, especially if Carson (and eventually Penny) are healthy?
I was surprised how good he ran last year on very limited carries. I would love to see him come back and get 809/1000 yards so to lock up a eventual HOF nomination. I am also glad he is retiring as a Seahawk. Should be a ring of honor dude one day.
I think he’s already both, HOF and ROH.
I also think Clowney will resign here but think it will be for only one year. The Marshawn idea to me feels good but does he really have anything left in the tank? I know he scored 4 TD’s but he averaged 2.9 yards per carry. If he is asked to carry a larger role for a couple games can he do it? I also agree they wont spend on the nickel as it just isnt there MO. I believe the DT they will sign is a guy who we just havent thought of or might even be a guy on a current roster. We never thought of Al Woods last year or Aytaba Rubin in the years before so I bet there is someone out there they have there eye on, who it is I dont know. Josh Gordon coming back just feels right as long as he gets reinstated.
I suspect it’ll be too expensive to re-sign Clowney for just one year.
And to be fair — we did talk about Al Woods a year ago. He was linked very early in the process due to his connection with Ken Norton and we often talked about him signing down the line.
I agree it could be too expensive, but if Im Clowney and I dont like what I get I wouldnt want two years. Im guessing they might have two separate offers to him? Maybe one year $13-$14m and one for two years $16-$17m? I think they want the lower first year cap hit and its not as important for year two? Obviously just speculation at this point.
The problem is his best offer for one year might be $10m. His best offer for two years might be $16m average plus incentives. And if that’s the case, it’s a no-brainer.
If the options were one year $10m or two years $32m I would for sure agree with you. The only thing to think about for him is would it affect his ability to get a long term deal done being 28 versus being 29?
Not really. His ability to get a long term deal will depend on how he performs. And if there’s incentives in his contract, how he performs will also max out the next two seasons.
The thing we have to remember is the Titans and Seahawks have the same amount of cap space — but the Titans still want to sign Logan Ryan and they’ve invested in the pass rush already. So their offer is not likely to match Seattle’s. Their offer will be more short term. I sense they’re playing off familiarity with scheme and opportunity. The Titans made the AFC Championship game last season and… they play Houston twice.
That being said I agree Mebane could be the guy of who you mentioned. He shouldnt cost more than about $2m you would think?
Yeah pretty cheap I’d think. Maybe even less than that in order to go full circle and finish in Seattle.
Really surprised the Colts are not picking up the 5th option on Malik Hooker. I always thought he would be the ideal FS in the Hawks scheme. Bet he ends up with SF next off season.
Apparently they’ve been trying to trade him for a few weeks (Michael Lombardi reported that a while ago).
I have not followed his NFL career closely but was a big fan of his coming out of College. Are the looking to move him because of play, scheme fit or locker room?
He’s had some injuries in his career so maybe that’s contributed?
I also loved him coming out, still just 24.
A WR group of Locket, Metcalf, Gordon, Dorset, Moore and Ursua would be really sold. I have a feeling they may go with 4 TE / 5 WR this season however.
If he does get reinstated it would be nice to see what he could do coming in earlier than he did last year.
And on a side note every time I write the word reinstated I cant help but laugh and think of the commercial with the doctor.
If they were to sign Clowney at 2/$32 say – what would the structure look like? I’m guessing they’d have to guarantee at least $20 million and I would guess a signing bonus of $16m.?
Year
If the signing bonus was that high I believe we could get his cap hit to be:
2020: $6M
2021: 10M with it being full $10M dead $
Sorry the dead $ in 2021 would be $14M
So it would be something like this:
2020 $6 million salary, $8 million signing? Total $14m
2021 $10 million salary, $8 million signing Total $18m
Don’t they prefer to just guarantee the first year? In this scenario $22m up front and there would be no guarantee of year 2’s salary?? Sorry if these are dumb questions, I just like to know how things are calculated and I can’t seem to wrap my finger around how this stuff works. Appreciate the response!
Shoot you’re right! I’m not a cap guy lol I always confuse myself.
I believe it would be $22M in the first year and no dead $ after.
The Seahawks only guarantee the first year at signing.
The signing bonus is always guaranteed and always pro-rated over the life of the contract. So the year 2 dead cap in this scenario is still $8M for 2021.
It would be more like:
2020 – Base: $6M, Signing Bonus (ProRated): $5M, Roster Bonus (if on team 4/1/21) $0, Per Game Bonus: $2M. 2020 Base fully guaranteed
2021 – Base: $8M, Signing Bonus (ProRated): $5M, Roster Bonus (if on team 4/1/21) $2M, Per game Bonus: $4M, 2021 Base not guaranteed
Total: 2/$32M, $16M guaranteed. 2021 dead cap of $5M.
I could see them doing all the guaranteed $ in the signing bonus so they can cut ties after year 1, or even include a player option for more incentive to sign here.
Guaranteed/Signing bonus: $20M
2020: $3M
2021: $9M
You all but know hes gonna opt out after year 1, but he would literally not count against the cap lol. (Pretty sure that’s not actually possible, but just for example/reference).
He would get his $23M for 1 year and we would have no dead $, allowing us to be free and clear from his cap hit immediately.
Something like this is most likely IMO
And if for some reason like injury he decides to take the $9M for another year,(after seeing how he handled this offseason, it ain’t happening) youd be getting a steal.
If it was two for $32 you would think maybe $20m guaranteed which could be $14 signing bonus with a $6m base. 2020 cap hit $13m and 2021 at $19m. They could also look to go $14/$18.
Yeah, you just never what aspect of the contract is most important to him. More years, more guarantees, a bigger signing bonus. I think it’s clear the Hawks want to structure so the hit is less in 2020 (obviously). Just wonder why they wouldn’t do something like 2/$40 and make him happy and structure it in the same way you illustrated. A bit more cash up front and no second year guarantees. Just a thought!
It’s not possible, you’re right.
The bonus has to be spread out evenly over the contract. If you give him $12M, it’s 6 & 6, you can’t choose when it hits. If you give it to him as guaranteed base, it all counts against your cap for this year. This defeats the purpose of having a 2 year deal. If your cap hit is going to be $23M in 2020, why not just give him a one year fully guaranteed $20M and save some cap space.
I knew the bonus had to be spread evenly, I didn’t know that if it’s included in the guaranteed base then it all counts against the cap this year. Thank you for explaining.
I would guess that they want Clowney’s cap hit to be around $13M in 2020, so a one-year seems unrealistic. Do you think it’s the guarantees, the signing bonus or the salary that Clowney is objecting to? I’d be okay with a three-year deal if that’s what it takes.
Rob will be super happy to see Clowney back to Hawks and so will be rest of the fans. If we believe media report on $15-$16 million offer, I can’t wrap my head why Clowney has not signed yet? He probably expect more more money than he is due. If he need that big contract he need to get 10+ sacks. May be he has one more year to do so and Hawks is best team for him.
In fairness I’ve been over a few times now why he hasn’t signed yet.
Thing is though, at Clowneys age, knee concerns, and desire to have a big contract, he has to be looking at having as short of a deal as possible in a system that lets him rack up sacks for another contract. Hate to say it, but Seahawks D-line makes him the only threat, with no one else helping significantly. He will be hard pressed to gets sacks when always double teamed. He knows this already. Titans give him that chance with better complimentary players on the line. 1 million less on this years deal vs. a prove it deal where he gets 10+ sacks and then hits it big the next year makes more financial success for him, assuming he gets the numbers and stays healthy.
Do not bring LOGIC into this conversation! Lol
A titans move isnt a guaranteed success.
Either team is a gamble in some form.
I agree with most of your predictions. They make sense. I don’t agree that the Hawks w/Clowney, Irvin, Mayowa, and Green as the top 4 in the DE rotation doesn’t make for a significantly improved Hawk team. Along with a much improved DB group (based upon a full season with Quandre Diggs, and the addition of Quinton Dunbar at CB) the overall production from the defense should be significantly improved thus significantly improving the team as a whole without the offense improving at all. Yet, I expect improved O-line play and some improvement overall from the receivers and running backs.
What the Hawks produced in W – L record last year may not be improved upon, but so long as we aren’t decimated by injuries, I will hope for a better playoff record next year.
So the difference between the Seahawks having a terrible pass rush and a ‘significantly improved’ pass rush…. is Irvin and Mayowa???
Irvin, Mayowa and a significantly improved DB group. Pass rush and pass defense are intertwined and last year our DB group was pretty terrible until we acquired Diggs. We will have Diggs for an entire year, Reed for an entire year, and we are adding Dunbar as well. “Coverage sacks” is a real thing and we got near zero of those last year.
I’d agree we might be disagreeing over the term “significantly improved” versus “modestly improved” but a case can be made either way.
This was the post I was looking for-thanks for this one, Rob. It all sounds very logical by my lights-feels right. I’d be really happy to see Gordon back in the fold. Based on the limited play we got to see last year-he could serve up a bit of excitement. And, the return of Beast Mode and ‘Bane would bring some value/nostalgia with them. Like the potential locker room presence on both counts. Ya think Mebane has enough left in the tank? Can’t say I’về really watched him much for a couple of years.
Say-what ever happened with Naz Jones? He seemed to hold out the promise of good things to come, then his stock with the team just kind of went all flat.
Rob – Maybe I’ve missed it, but I haven’t heard much from you on Leonard Fournette. I’m a huge fan of his and wanted him badly entering the 2017 draft. How much do you think he would cost us in a potential trade? I keep thinking back to a similar situation in 2010 when we traded for a disgruntled former first rounder named Marshawn. just curious what you thought of him. Thanks!
I don’t know — but I think if Jacksonville were being reasonable he would’ve been moved the week of the draft. Which makes me think they’re not being reasonable.
I think all criticisms of the Seahawks not taking advantage of the free agency edge rusher market are bad until they officially cannot sign Clowney. Nobody here has any clue how the Hawks evaluated the other edge rushers in the market. It could very well be that the Hawks just didn’t like Fowler/Quinn/Barrett and whoever else. You cannot fault the Seahawks for trying to close their number 1 target. Clearly they feel like they can get him judging by how they have saved this money until now. Also, all reports indicate that the Hawks gave the best offer as well. So how is it their fault that Clowney has not agreed? If its anyone fault it is covid-19’s, which has prevented Clowney from visiting other teams, which in turn has slowed down his market.
In any other year Clowney would have visited other teams early on, and he would have been able to gauge his market more accurately. The Clowney situation would have been resolved a month ago. Lets blame nature, not the Seahawks who again have reportedly given Clowney his best offer he has.
And I am sure the Seahawks have a contingency plan if Clowney falls through. Im sure they are working on trade options all across the league.
You don’t become a GM of a major sports teams if you approach acquisition problems with a 1 stop solution. There is always a backup plan. The reason the backup plan has not been executed is because they probably still strongly believe that they can get Clowney. LIPO.
I see your point. Also makes me wonder if a package of Yannick and Fournette might be on the Hawks minds if Clowney doesn’t sign. I can’t see them paying Yannick though unless they can do something similar to the Clowney deal last season. We’ll wait and see, but getting Clowney or Yannick plus Fournette would be incredible IMO. Thanks
I don’t think Ngakoue is an option. They’ve added LEO’s. They’re also not going to give up major 2021 picks to pay him $20m a year.
I agree. I read somewhere that we were interested in trading for him, but have always thought he would be too spendy unless we could get him with something similar to the Clowney deal – (a third and they pay us some money for 2020 with no franchise tag allowed) After thinking more though, we’d just be in the same boat next year.
Are there any other strictly 5 techniques that would be an alternative if Clowney doesn’t sign? Or would say Griffin just man that spot even though he’s not a true 5 technique?
Loving this daily content, thank you Rob! I also love this outlook for the Seahawks. I’m hopeful for 2021, especially with beast mode!!
Go hawks.
I agree w the predictions – – and hope you’re right on Gordon. He was playing a small, but sort of key role on the team by the time he was suspended. Still got that high-end size/coordination combo. Seemed like the team liked him too.
I’ll never forget that last catch he made. Thing of beauty!
“It’s the stuff that dreams are made of.”
Off to bed. Night all.
I agree with your predictions with the exception of Lynch.
I think / hope he fully transitions into Retire Mode.
Thanks for keeping the content fresh and conversation going.
He’s already said he wants to play.
OOPS he’s negotiating a deal with us as we speak xD
ESPN is replaying the Fail Mary game right now.
I was there for that game. Spine tingling.
And Sonics/Suns ’93 playoffs on NBATV right now. Seattle sports dominating the Covid re-runs . . . .
Game 7, the fix is in
Red Bryant
Gregg Scruggs
Alan Branch
Brandon Mebane
Jason Jones
Clinton McDonald
Now that’s some beef on the DL
Im watching a replay of the Sounders second MLS cup win
I just don’t see why they’d want Lynch back, except for nostalgia. It was clear as day his last year in the league, and it was even more clear last year that his burst has left him. If we don’t want Dareus because he’s “done”, we shouldn’t want Lynch back simply because he’s a beloved former player.
I shouldn’t even have to explain why.
With all due respect, it goes against everything you’ve been talking about making the roster better. He’s not good enough to be in the rotation of a championship caliber roster and you know that. Sentimentality shouldn’t be a part of the equation and just because we all love his contributions to the organization, you can’t seriously consider retaining him. Zero burst left. What makes him effective in the field in 2020? If you are going to tell everyone how many jags we have on the roster and how this team has failed to improve the roster, you can’t seriously suggest that we carry a player who was a shell of his former self. That’s borderline team mascot status.
He’s a superstar. He brings more than onfield production. He’ll get butts in the seats and i think he’s embraced a reduced snap count of he’s coming back.
He used to be a superstar. Now he’s just a past his prime player who can’t help your team as much as a younger, more athletic player. Hell, let’s get Walter Jones back. How about Chris Clemons? What’s Marcus Trufant doing these days? Can he play the slot corner? Please, man. I’m in no way ignorant to what he was for us and how much he was responsible for our only title. Nothing but love for that man. He’s not a viable player in 2020.
Marshawn was productive as recently as 2018 with Oakland. He had some injury problems of course, but in a limited role there’s no reason to believe he can’t get the job done and stay healthy. We need a back who can give us a few carries per game, get the tough yards on goal line and short scenarios, and be ready in case we get hit with injuries again – Marshawn would be great for that.
He wasn’t productive on a y/c basis with us last year in 2019, however he was signed off the street in the last few weeks of the season. Who knows what kind of shape he was in, he didn’t have training camp, in-season reps, or practices to be ready. If he was on the roster all year, in game shape, with some reps in games, he’d be ready in case Carson or Penny struggle with injuries again.
>was a star
>is in Westworld
The two parties are in talks.
Straight from the beast’s mouth.
Only thing good in Westworld 3.
Seahawk game’s lack butts in the seats?
1. This is a prediction thread not a Rob Staton builds the team thread.
2. Lynch is far better, still, than you’re giving him credit for.
3. We’re still missing the point on culture and its importance.
D O G
B A M F
Mainly because of that attitude.
IIRC he still was able to carry a couple of guys into the end zone on like 2 of those TDs. I think he’s still effective in short yardage.
I would much rather have Lynch as FB than Bellore.
Rob, I can see all of your predictions happening. Although I hope we sign Hyde, and then Lynch late in the season if we need to.
If we sign Clowney, Mebane, another vet DT (cap cut), and Carlos Hyde, I would be very optimistic about this season. The DL would look much more like an NFL caliber group. We would have depth everywhere. A lot of young potential targets for Russ along with players like Metcalf, Dissly, Olsen, Willson, Dorsett, Hollister, Moore.
I think if Brooks plays WLB it will end up being a great pick from day 1. He can do what K.J. did early in his career. K.J. fits at SLB more now anyway. I think Brooks is faster and quicker than Kendricks, and as a younger player he should have last a little longer into games before getting gassed. Let K.J. sub in and play at 100% while getting youth and speed onto the field.
I agree with you that we have been over hyping Dunbar. I also think that hes a really good player and knows our style already. That should transition even in this Crazy year. I think hes AJ upgrade over Flowers for sure and on par with or better than Griffin. When Dunbar is on the field I think we can expect much better pass defense, especially with (hopefully) Clowney and Diggs. If Dunbar gets hurt, we still have Griffin and Flowers, I absolutely love that depth.
The 1 thing that I think we will go into the season still questioning is the OL.
Good thoughts, and I agree with much of what you’re saying. Though I’d much prefer Lynch to Hyde, just a far superior player in all facets of the game.
Darnell. Just curious. You stated that Marshawn Lynch is far superior to Carlos Hyde. Last year Lynch had 34 yards on 12 rushing attempts for a 2.8 yard average. Carlos Hyde had 1070 yards on 245 rushing attempts for a 4.4 yard average. Please explain to me how Marshawn Lynch is far superior to Carlos Hyde.
Let’s please use some obvious perspective here.
12 rushing attempts, coming in off the street, all against the best D-line in the NFL in a week 17 decider, when teams knew they could attack Seattle’s LOS over and over again because they’d lost Carson and Penny and their OL was banged up.
Versus Carlos Hyde playing a full season in a balanced offense.
Come on.
I dont get the Josh Gordon love. He was outplayed by Malik Turner and David Moore, both of whom underwhelmed. He once was a great player, but has apparently list more than a step. He looked pitifully slow. Wck, Id rather give Jazz Ferguson a shot…Gordon had alot of snaps where he was utterly invisible…
Very sad to see Lynchs return squandered. Id love to see him back.
Excellent points and a great post, Rob! Im in full agreement with your reasoning. Id sign Daniels, but Id cut him and try to bring him back after week one because hes got a real injury history. Mebane us pretty done, but hes a great guy so maybe the same deal…Harrison could be good, but not if hes lazy…and I fear hes become that way…
Bit rough. He was clutch on some big third downs. Get him running that slant, it’s a release-valve Wilson hasn’t had in years.
What did those two do last season that makes you say they outplayed him? Gordon barely got any snaps and time to build chemistry with Russ and learn our system. But even the few catches he made showed that he has more talent in his big toe than those other two combined…
I gotta disagree there. In my opinion Gordon was a noticeably superior player to all the WRs other than Lockett and Metcalf, even in a limited sample size.
Gordon caught slants, and made one catch longer than 15 yards that I remember–and zero TD’s. Turner had a great TD, some big catches, and got separation you never saw from Gordon. (The two key drops were lowlights for Turner). Moore had a couple nice TDs and had 300 yards and averaged 17 yards a catch…and both had more than 10 catches, while Gordon had 7, mostly on one route–the slant. And Gordon played alot while being invisible. At least Moore and Turner have room to grow–Gordon is just fading.
Aside from that, we have Dorsett, Ursua, and Swain, our fifth rounder. I guess if Carrol wants a big guy on the bench, Gordon is ok. But it seems clear to me hes got only fumes left in the tank.
Come on. Gordon came in mid-season and was given a gradual, limited role.
His ‘one catch longer than 15 yards’ was possibly the catch of the season in the entire league.
From a talent and value standpoint, Gordon is light years ahead of the others you listed. We all know what the problem is with him. And if he didn’t have that problem he would’ve been one of his generations’ top players (at any position).
Don’t forget: Keenan Reynolds was the next Doug Baldwin.
Gordon won’t be back in Seattle, failed drug test for something other than weed. I doubt he will be reinstated. IMO
That’s speculation on your part.
Not buying Rob…
I heard it from Clayton over 2 month’s ago.
Well then it’s his speculation.
And if he’s going to put that out there he should provide details.
I agree. Gross Clayton spread gossip like this…
I’ve not seen any report that definitively states he violated that aspect of the rule. Im pretty sure it’s a banned substance fail, but kot necessarily PEDs.
Its all under the same umbrella policy, iirc.
If im wrong, I’d be happy to look at a source, but the only reports I’ve seen have been ambiguous at best.
It really irks me to hear fans call him a cheater.
Clayton keeps saying PED’s, for what it’s worth.
Thanks for letting me know that. I have so much respect for Gordon and his journey it’s a devastating fact, if true.
I’ve loved Gordon since Holmgren drafted him for the Browns. And his problems with anxiety, and therefore alcohol an drugs, do not make him radioactive to me. I have anxiety, my wife and much of her family are riddled with it, and I want badly to give him a shot in Seattle. But he looked like a washed up athlete whose relevance has past to me. I don’t even see a shadow of his former ability. To me, he looked like a guy who is now stuck between a WR and a TE.
Rob, you watch far more film than I do, and you have a fine analytical mind. I watched Gordon as closely as I could on TV, and I’m surprised at your conclusions. Until you chimed in, I was sure everyone was just running on name recognition and past glory in their assessments of Gordon. Now I have to wonder if I’m missing something.
So perhaps I’m wrong. To tell you the truth, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings to be wrong in this case. But I do think you are being pretty hard on our new guys and Turner. Moore we knew was a project, and Turner is the same. Whose to say Turner won’t flourish given solid playing time. I know how hard it is to play only a handful of plays and be expected to be perfect.
I totally agree with you Rob that without his Issues he would have been a transcendent player, and likely rewrote the record book. I know full well he was That Guy. I just saw nothing but his eye-hand coordination left of that former self.
“ His ‘one catch longer than 15 yards’ was possibly the catch of the season in the entire league.”
Even better than the stretched Lockett on his single toe catch in the corner of the end zone?
Agreed. Gordon is a much better receiver. His catches were mostly for first downs. And for the life of me I don’t know why Moore and Malik we’re getting more targets.
Cause they got open. Gordon only got separation on slants on third down, and vs zone. And then only rarely…
I meant to post this in the last thread, because it’s honestly not super applicable here, but I’d be interested in the thoughts of everyone else.
How much of the recent ‘bad’ drafting is down to poor talent evaluation, and how much is down to poor coaching? Thinking back to the coaching staffs of 2012/13/14, they’ve been gutted. That’s natural evolution to an extent, but the defensive coaches in particular were wiped out. Off the top of my head, Gus Bradley, Kris Richard, Robert Salah, and Dan Quinn are all now either HCs or DCs. There are other guys who have moved on as well. We’ve kept Ken Norton, but honestly he seems to have been overpromoted and should probably go back to being the LB coach.
I’m just thinking of all the missed tackles last year. If the coaches either can’t be bothered, or are unable to, teach how to tackle properly; then why do they still have a gig? Am I wrong about this? Serious raw talent and a manic work ethic can mitigate coaching mediocrity, but that puts an unreasonably, and frankly unrealistic, burden to find diamonds in the rough year after year.
My question is did the Seahawks really go out and get the absolute best replacements they possibly could? Because it looks like the staff has been absolutely stacked with Carroll’s friends, family, and old USC staff. I get that the NFL is the ultimate networking business, and that cronyism and nepotism are a thing at all times, but it really does seem like the antithesis of always compete.
I think its both. The staff lost is an underappreciated reason for Seattles recent struggles, especially on the defense. Carrols D or no, it worked alot better with Bradley/Quinn, Saleh, Seto, Richard, Wash, etc on board. Yeah, doesnt seem weve hired the cream, just some dudes.
I think Solari is light years better than Cable and the overall performance of that position group the last couple of years has shown as much. Defensively, you may have a point but damn the talent on that side of the ball was simply insane. My vote goes to questionable drafting likely based on talent evaluation but your point about tackling in particular is certainly valid.
I think Seto is an underrated loss. That was Pete’s dude right there. From USC to Seattle he was a top general. He created the Hawk tackling method. Amazing culture guy. A master of many trades. Saleh didn’t seem like he did much here. Pete said he was a hard worker and not much else. He is usually more glowing in his evaluations of past coaches. I think Richard is a bit like Norton to be honest. A great position coach. He still hasn’t got a DC job since leaving and got passed over for a promotion this year too. There are some good hires. Clint Hurtt has been a good one. Canales has worked his way up. We’ll see how Hutch does this year.
Schneider has lost a lot of dudes too. Dan Morgan recently. It hurts to lose eyes that you trust for evaluations. Got some hope for Alonso Highsmith.
i am fully onboard with these moves – and really appreciating the content, rob!
one thought, i hope we don’t end up regretting releasing jefferson (assuming he could have played that backup iDL role).
second thought, if we resign gordon i am betting on sullivan making the team.
Q Jeff was a FA, he wasn’t released.
I would take Josh Gordon back in less than a second.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/marshawn-lynch-says-seahawks-agent-have-discussed-return-nfl
“My agent has been in talks with Seattle, so like I said, we’ll see what happens. If it works out and I get back up there, it is what it is. And if not, s***, I’m livin’ good. So I ain’t really trippin’ too much.”
Of course he’s living good. By all accounts he’s managed his money extremely well. Very smart dude.
Getting paid to pretend to protect Evan Rachel Wood is mos def ‘livin’ good.’
Rob, do you think Seattle needs to target a more run stuffing DT than one who may offer some pass rush?
If so, who do you think is the best run stuffing DT of the bunch you mentioned?
Figuring Seattle might be looking to replace Woods in that regard..Also, do you think Collier will be a candidate to rotate in and out as a replacement for Jefferson?
They haven’t got much choice now. The only available and realistic options are run stuffers.
But I think they needed someone who could at least create some pressure.
To answer re: Collier, Pete said post-draft that both Collier and Green would potentially rush from the interior on 3rd down.
The rest of the NFC West will be quaking in their boots…
I wanted to laugh but instead I cried…
Adding a run stuffing DT and vet backup QB is obvious. I hope Mebane still has enough in the tank, if not, they will find the guy to plug in.
I would absolutely love to see Lynch on the roster at least until Penny is back from PUP.
I agree that nickle corner that costs beyond vet minimum is not in the plans going forwards.
Josh Gordon offers the best talent return on the dollar you could ever get when he can actually dress on Sunday. If it can happen – go for it.
That leaves the big Clowney in the room. The one move that completes the off season and makes it a huge WIN or tanks it all if it doesn’t happen.
If I had to make the call I’d make Clowney the offer that saves his face and ago – 3 years 50M.
15M signing bonus.
2020 base – 5M fully guaranteed. cap hit – 10M
2021 base – 6M, 2M roster bonuses, 2M sacks Bonuses. Cap hit 15M.
2022 base – 20M. Cap hit 25M or 5M dead cap.
Its actually a 2 year 15M apy plus a 3rd they can walk away from. It should be enough to get him over here NOW and move on with the rest of the plan.
I wouldn’t say the off season is a huge win if they get Clowney back.
It’s simply something they had to do. The absolute bare minimum was to retain Clowney or adequately replace him.
A question regarding the Seahawks plans:
There is a very long list of players that enter their last year of contract. Some are key starters.
Do you see them extending any of them (Griffin, Carson)? and could it cause further cuts to finance it (Jackson, K.J.)?
I don’t know whether they will or not — but personally I wouldn’t go anywhere near extensions for Carson and Griffin. Carson has to prove he can stay healthy and not fumble. Griffin has a reputation beyond what he’s shown on the field IMO. He has three career interceptions and two of them came in the same game (thanks to Mitchell Trubisky). To me he’s an adequate starter. Not someone you pay a year in advance of their contract expiring, unless it’s an extremely team-friendly deal.
Agree completely about Carson. A RB who’s got an injury history, um sorry but no.
Griffin I’d definitely wait to see how this year plays out.
I got into a big debate with Seahawks Twitter about Griffin. I was told he is an elite corner that will be one of the highest paid CBs. I responded that if someone wants to pay him that – so be it. Get your 3rd round comp and let someone have a good not great player.
“Interceptions don’t matter!” Um…yes they do. As we have seen with Clowney – teams still want pure sack numbers. You can’t be an elite DB without creating turnovers. Very, very few guys in the history of the NFL were elite by simply being avoided. That’s a rare breed that doesn’t really exist in the modern NFL passing game.
Anyways…it was interesting to say the least.
I don’t do Twitter but from what I’ve heard a lot of interactions with Seahawks Twitter are “interesting to say the least”.
If Griffin’s play in 2020 is the same as 2019… I’d let him hit the market and establish his value. I wouldn’t rush to pay him.
Matt, The Seahawks will have over 50M of cap space next year (and a lot of players leaving). The good old days when every player leaving for a big pay day resulted in a comp pick are gone for now…(see Fant’s 30M contract…)
Good to have more competition with Dunbar this year. We might have better idea who we can extend. Hope we find some one as good developing player this year so he can be backup for next year.
Thank you guys! I was hearing people overrate him all season just because he was more consistent than his bad sophomore season. I thought I was going crazy because I just wasn’t seeing it.
Not that I don’t like that guy, or think that he can’t make the leap next season that would warrant an extension. But he has played a lot of games and has yet to “breakout”.
Agreed. Carson’s health and injury concerns warrant a lot of caution. Does anyone really think he will have a super hot market next year, even if he has another 1,000 yard season? He’s the kind of guy you can let hit the market and still retain on a reasonable deal.
Same with Griffin. I think they want to see who plays better this year: Griffin or Dunbar. I think they let at least one of them walk after this season. If they can get the better one on a reasonable deal, great. If not then I could see both walking.
Rob,
Thanks for this. I hope you’re right about Clowney.
If we assume Clowney comes back, it might be fun to look at 2019 snap counts, compare to the current roster, and speculate on where those snap counts go this season. I’d imagine that Brooks spells Wright a bunch, and perhaps Wagz a bit too, so our LB unit isn’t 90%+ again.
🤞🤞 Hopefully we can sign Clowney. Appreciate the optimism about it.
Also nice job calling the Marshawn interest. The move makes sense and I think would be great. While Lynch is at the end of his career, he is still a great locker room presence and leader. He is also still helpful in goal line situations. Plus he would actually have time to train this year. Also would be a great story for him and increase/end career in Seattle.
Side request. Rob, would you be able/interested in writing an article about seahawks culture? I keep thinking about this point after hearing your interviews with the former GMs. The Hawks are a huge culture team just like Patriots. Everyone appears to buy in and the brotherhood (esp. last year) was really close. I think this unique culture the Hawks have helps/part of the reason they are good every year. I think Hawks know this- and why in recent years they’ve drafted and brought in certain guys (not just intangibles but higher weight now for hiring).
I can try and arrange an interview with someone who can speak to the culture
That would be awesome! Thanks man!
Anyone got an ESPN+ account and want to share Kiper’s big board and positional breakdown for 2021?
Mel’s Big Board
1. Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson
2. Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon
3. Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
4. Ja’Marr Chase, WR, LSU
5. Micah Parsons, OLB, Penn State
6. Shaun Wade, CB, Ohio State
7. Patrick Surtain II, CB, Alabama
8. Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota
9. Marvin Wilson, DT, Florida State
10. Jevon Holland, S, Oregon
11. Jaylon Waddle, WR, Alabama
12. Samuel Cosmi, OT, Texas
13. Elijah Molden, CB, Washington
14. Jalen Mayfield, OT, Michigan
15. Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State
16. Devonta Smith, WR, Alabama
17. Tyler Shelvin, DT, LSU
18. Justyn Ross, WR, Clemson
19. Dylan Moses, ILB, Alabama
20. Chris Olave, WR, Ohio State
21. Pat Freiermuth, TE, Penn State
22. Jay Tufele, DT, USC
23. Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida
24. Gregory Rousseau, DE, Miami
25. Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
Will send position rankings later. Busy morning.
Jevon Holland is not a top 10 prospect.
But thanks for sharing that!!
Thanks Vanhawk. Wow Molden at 13! I coached against him here in Oregon. Seemed like a good kid. I haven’t seen much of him at UW. Can anyone speak about him?
Elijah is a Swiss Army knife who plays corner, safety, nickel. He covers, tackles, blitzes. He’s a really versatile and heady player who really came into his own last season. Very instinctive and makes plays all over the place.
Like Budda Baker?
Thanks man
He has Rousseau way down there, thought he was ould be higher.
He can’t rush the edge. Very raw.
I’m about as big a fan of this guy as any but he has only played one season. He has a ways to go but has tools for days. Since he is a redshirt sophomore this year, i wonder is he even comes out. Will have to have a big year again.
Off topic, Dave Wyman is very high on the Robinson pick. Interesting analysis on 710 ESPN yesterday.
Why does everyone pigeonhole Sullivan at TE? He was drafted at WO per JS/PC and is listed as such on their roster….
Heaps/710/ESPN raises same q, makes same point.
IMO, no one has pigeonholed Sullivan at TE. I don’t sweat ‘position’ anymore, but look at usage.
Everyone? I don’t know anyone who’s pigeonholed Sullivan as a tight end.
But the reality is he’s 248lbs and runs a 4.66. That’s a tight end profile, not a receiver profile.
Looks like the profile of an easy cut come August
Didnt he add weight this year and move to TE because of team needs? I thought he was a 220 lb WR in years past.
Maybe they want to get him to drop weight and shave a tenth or two off that 40
Maybe so. How easy that is though remains to be seen. He would need to lose 30lbs… in a matter of weeks.
I pigeon-hole him as a camp body that’ll be lucky to make the roster in a stacked room
Practice squad.
That’s true he seems like such a sweetheart. Strikes me as someone you want in the locker room regardless of position.
Several people on SDB have. Media also. He is a Redzone mismatch that the Hawks will implore. They have never talked about using him at TE. Wouldn’t surprise me if he got some look’s there though.
You said ‘everyone’.
Now you’ve revised it to ‘several people on SDB’.
I’ve not seen a single person pigeonhole him as a tight end.
Plus — neither John or Pete talked about a position for him post draft. They talked about his personality and excitement at being drafted. They didn’t call him a receiver or a tight end. But people need to be realistic — he’s nearly 250lbs.
Sorry Rob, didn’t mean “everyone” will several work for you? Take it easy Rob.:)
Moot point I guess. Thank’s for all your great content Rob! Very much appreciated. Stay safe!!!
Does anyone know if there will be any media availability for players or coaches prior to training camp whenever that starts? Usually there would be something around rookie minicamp or OTAs I think, but I wonder how they’ll do that now with everything being virtual.
Seeing as there was radio silence until the draft, I doubt we’ll hear from Pete and John again for a long time.
That’s what I was figuring. Looks like we’ll have to make do with Will Ferrell as Greg Olsen Zoom videos released by the team. Which I thought was fantastic.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the last player John and Pete drafted who became a “superstar” perennial Pro-Bowler was Russell Wilson. Michael Dickson might get there, but he is just a punter. Will Dissly will be there if he could ever stay healthy. A few since then have been outstanding players, but not quite at that level: Frank Clark, Tyler Lockett, Chris Carson, Shaquill Griffin, maybe Jarran Reed. DK Metcalf is the only player the Seahawks have drafted since those great 2011/2012 drafts who appears to me to be a potential All-Pro.
When Russell called this off-season for more superstars, I think he was not just speaking of signing a FA to some absurd contract, but mainly to the need to draft more young guys who are home-run picks, who are playing alongside Russell in the Pro-Bowl.
We still have a few really young guys who are TBD, Marquise Blair for example, but Russ is right, we need several more DK Metcalf’s. John has done a brilliant job of acquiring guys like Dunbar and Diggs, both of whom may be in the Pro-Bowl this season, but we really need a couple of guys to emerge from this new draft class. I was impressed that John and Pete, in all the rounds, seemed to get “their guy” at a position of need. Let them be right, O Lord. Now, if Brooks, Taylor and Lewis are seen as superstars a couple of years from now, then that will likely coincide with a Super Bowl win.
Why I thought it was a mistake to pass on CE-H for Brooks, esp. when Gay Jr. and Logan were still there in late 2nd.
CE-H, Taylor, Gay Jr.
Playing devils advocate they said the big 3 at LB and Gay wasnt part of that. It appears as if they werent hell bent on drafting a LB, they were only going to take one if it was one of those three guys. As far as CEH is concerned he doesnt fit what they like in a guy. He is too small. All teams like to draft super stars but the draft is a crap shoot.
With respect — they didn’t take Clyde Edwards-Helaire but I’m pretty sure if you spoke to Pete & John, the last thing they’d say is CEH ‘doesn’t fit what they like’.
He was two inches in height away from being their prototype ideal.
I didnt mean they dont like the way he plays but at the combine he was listed at 5″ 7″ 207 lbs. Our profile is 5’10” 220. Thats what I was referring to.
I think the ‘crap shoot’ analogy is bunk and overplayed.
Didn’t have to be Gay Jr. or any LB. Point: IMO, passing on CE-H to take a thumper WILL/MIKE was a head-scratcher. CE-H is special and would have greatly improved the offense. Playing Brooks at WILL and moving Wright to SAM doesn’t greatly improve the defense. To each their own, though.
Exemplifies their MO: Draft Barton, extend KJ, pass on CE-H to draft Brooks, extend Carson (eventually).
I dont have a way to know this but Im guessing they werent taking another RB in the first round after doing it two years ago. If they are going to extend Chris then taking CEH wouldnt make sense. If they are going to move on from him it would make more sense.
IDK. CEH is such a good receiving back that not using him in the passing game wouldn’t be utilizing him to his full potential. KC is a perfect fit for him scheme wise. While he can, running downhill isn’t exactly his greatest strength either.
It should improve their ability to defend teams like the Cardinals who like to use a lot of mixing and matching of vertical and hortizontal concepts. Should also give them much more discipline which is needed to beat teams like that. Kendricks was anything but.
Agree. I was prob unclear.
I would have drafted CE-H to use in the passing game. Used properly, he would have made the offense impossible to defend. Reid/KC will get the most out of him.
Can get behind the Brooks pick for the reasons given, but thought they had greater needs. If they don’t improve the DL, the LB will continue to struggle.
Regarding AZ, they’re coming together, offensively and defensively.
I’m not sure Seattle would’ve used him enough in the passing game. Maybe I’m wrong. Let’s see what they do with DeeJay Dallas. I think he’s gonna be really good.
I think they’ve improved the LEO portion of their D-line, but I see what your saying.
Part of the reason I wouldnt see them taking CEH is also that they have Penny. If they resigned Carson and still had Penny then draft CEH would that be wise? Now having CEH teamed up with Carson would be a great 1-2 as they have much different skill sets. I agree CEH will blossom in KC and could see him being a top 10 fantasy pick as a rookie.
Moving KJ off WIL and reducing his snaps overall absolutely improves this defense. Address a bigger need than pass rush in my opinion.
It was obvious late last year KJ didnt have the speed to defend the edge of the field anymore, one of the reasons why so many runs ended in our secondary.
Maybe so.
But there is no way…. no way… that was a ‘bigger’ need than the pass rush.
Deejay Dallas tweets he’ll wear #31 for the Hawks this year. With Kam’s permission.
That’s gonna take some getting used to.
That’s one we should consider retiring.
Him and Marshawn were the soul of those teams. Would have no problem never seeing another 24 or 31 but it doesnt seem likely any time soon at least
Your right. That one should be off limits. Hate to beat a dead horse, but Seattle changed the game with their DBs. From how teams draft ’em, how teams deploy ’em, to the NFL changing rules due in large part to the LOB. Bam Bam is as responsible for that as anyone.
Is Kam a HOF’er? I say yes for the reasons stated above…he changed the game!
I’d like to agree but I don’t think so. May be deserving but………XLVIII in general and that hit in particular might tip the scales though.
I guess I hadn’t really thought big picture, beyond popularity of drafting length at the position.
Its crazy how we fielded four total throwback players that also somehow heralded the future of the position group.
Don’t disagree it should be retired at some point, but Dallas is an RB–feels kinda like college FB having same numbers for different offensive and defensive players.
Well you can scratch Frank Gore off the list. Frank Gore just signed with the Jets.
2018: Dolphins
2019: Bills
2020: Jets
2021: Patriots…?
Another player with injury concerns signs after passing physical.
With Baltimore signing Jake Ryan after all his injury concerns. His passing physical shows what Rob has been saying all along; Clowney not signing has very little to do with Covid and his injuries. It’s purely how he values himself and trying to maximize it.
I agree the Clowney situation is partly due to how he values himself and is trying to maximize it. I get it. But I also agree with John Clayton. Clayton has been telling us that no one is going to sign Clowney without a physical. Clowney cannot get a physical until this Covid-19 situation clears up. Clayton also said that Clowney has a history of injuries. https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/jadeveon-clowney/6932.
They’re tied together. Teams outside of SEA are reportedly offering less than Clowney is willing to take. He probably believes they will offer more if he can get in their building and let their docs have a look at him. Therefore, we wait.
I don’t believe that.
I think he probably knows what the situation is now. He just doesn’t feel the need to take a deal he feels is undervalued right this instant… and he’s prepared to risk losing money to see if someone, down the line, will offer more.
That’s true. He’s also been an “elite, sought after talent” his entire life and might place a lot more faith in his ability to drive up his price as time winds on than others do.
My question is when it comes down to the end, will he really take a lesser deal to play in TEN or will he take the (reportedly) best offer from SEA?
Well, if this is the case, he lessens his hand by waiting out. Go someone tell him.
At this point, he is a high risk, high reward, potential breakdown player who wanna get paid, for no good reason from a GM standpoint.
He needs to thoroughly think this through and needs to break this assumption. Because not only will his attitude shape his post-2020 outlook, but also his stance in football history.
This is what is keeping me being lukewarm on him. A generational talent, who doesn’t seem to get how gifted he is, being interested in “chicken only”. While RW is aware of this stuff and his place in future HOF discussions, making him to adapt his behavior on and off field.
There is only one way. If Clowney now comes out now, telling the world he only takes a one year deal and will kill it, trusting his gifts and his profession, then he will get paid in 2021, regardless if he produces 3 sacks or 9.
Yes, he does weaken his hand. But clearly he’s completely comfortable with that. It’s his choice. And as I’ve been saying — when you’ve earned $50m in your career, you can afford to do that. Respect seems to be very important to Jadeveon Clowney. And he clearly feels there’s only two ways of achieving that. Either someone pays him what he wants, or he does this on HIS schedule and not a teams’ schedule.
And he doesn’t need to think about anything. Seattle isn’t moving on. So as far as he’s concerned, he can keep doing this and Seattle’s offer will always be there.
The physical angle is such a red herring
Here is a straight up yes or no question. Do we think Chris Carson will be on this team in 2021? Obviously it depends on what happens this year but if he has a similar year this year like he had last year what do we think?
Yes.
I think yes. But when is the question. If he duplicates 2019 in 2020, he’s not a priority FA in my mind.
If they sign him before FA or early in the FA period – it’s because they came to terms on a reasonable deal.
If they sign him later – it’s because he’s explored his market and decided price and fit are best in Seattle.
Yes but unless it’s a 2 year deal I think it’ll be a poor signing. (and I love me some CC)
No.
I bet he plays 10-12 games this year and is unavailable at year end
They talk about the cliff after 30 but in reality for most backs that cliff seems to be more like 28. A two year deal or even three (with the option to release him after two years) seems like it could be a good option. It will be interesting to see his market after 2020 depending on how he plays this coming year.
He will play 95% of the 2020 season as a 26 year old so he should have at least his 27 and 28 year old years to play at a high level. Maybe even age 29 as he didnt have much college tread?
Rob: Today Danny and Gallant asked Trey Wingo could the Seahawks win without signing Clowney? What would the chances for Seattle be with just a bunch of rotational pass rushers? Trey Wingo’s response was kind of surprising. Wingo said that if you remember the Patroits traded away their top pass rusher(Chandler Jones) and they still manage to win the Super Bowl.
The thing that is different is that the Patroits fattened their win total by beating a bunch patsies. Playing the Bills, Dolphins and Jets inflated their win total. Then they get the number one seed in the AFC. Seattle is playing six games in the BRUTAL NFC West.
No question Seattle’s odds do go up if then they sign Clowney. But no guarentee either way.
Does Seattle play the AFCE or AFCS this year?
East
Thank you. And the NFCE too, right?
Yes. Dallas and NYG at home, Philly and Washington on the road.
Much easier schedule than last year imo
AFCN is brutal
Kenny actually Seattle went 3-1 against the AFC North. The Hawks beat Pittsburg, Cleveland and CIncinnati. They lost to Baltimore.
This year the Hawks have New England at home. But they have to travel to Buffalo. Eight years ago(Russell Willson’s first season) the Hawks caught a break. Their road game was played in Toronto under the dome. Instead of playing outside in a blizzard. When the Hawks schedule comes out that will be the first thing I look at. When will we be playing in Buffalo? I am hoping it is early. According to Clayton the schedule makers are going to keep the division games toward the end of the season. We will see.
Those are just really physical teams with rabid fanbases. Not gonna miss those names on the schedule
Early non-division games means good for the @ Buffalo game, bad for the @ Miami game.
Miami surprises someone in September at home every year due to the heat/humidity.
Jets and Pats at home, Buffalo and Miami on the road
You could argue that comment for the Patriots every year as the AFC East has been mostly a disaster. Not taking away what thy have done for 20 years because it is truly unbelievable but when you win the division that easily every year it makes things easier for sure.
What are the other 2 games?
@ Atlanta
Home Minnesota
Just like 2019 now that I think about it.
Same as the “u mad bro?” year.
This team has no attitude.
No ‘bad eggs’.
Lockett, Russ, Penny, DK, Dissly, the whole OL. Nice guys. Carson has a stiff upper lip but hes not gonna get in an opponents head.
Bobby and KJ are super nice. Clowney too, just doin his job.
Flowers and Diggs are pretty chippy/chirpy I guess.
There’s no Baldwin, Earl, or Sherm.
A BAMF is more than just any old fool who can hit
When they say this is Russell’s team they mean it.
Just like him this team has no personality and can sometimes be extremely corny and fake. submit comment
There is absolute truth to that. Its good to have guys on your team that are playing short of a six pack. Ideally you want a little crazy on your team mixed in with smart.
I think the RB position and the OL position is an area where this can help. I liked having Lynch who was a little crazy and loved have Giacomini in the day. You dont want 5 Giacominis but one is good.
True. Also like Russ because they have high belief. Never out of a game. They play above anyone’s expectations despite talent gaps. Stable mental attitudes.Dependable, even their weaknesses.And they are oddly funny and weird (Team dances). Unlike the LOB years when they thought that thought they were underdogs despite clear physical supremacy, this team actually is. Just like Russ. I think Blair could be an a$$hole in the best way. Amadi got a little swag to him too.
Blair? Absolutely. Darrell Taylor too.
I have really high hopes for Brooks in this regard.
Brooks is just a defenders name and he has a really bullish demeanor. I cant wait to see who’s really energized to get back to football
I’m with ya there. He brings a real nice intensity. Seems to play with a lot of passion too.
Yep
Put this on for DK all off-season long…
https://twitter.com/nflthrowback/status/1257703934715547649
Speaking of DK, do we think he will have the sophomore slump a lot of guys have or do we see him as taking off year two?
Stock goin Up, Up and away!
Based on how much he improved over the year, I have every confidence he’ll keep getting better and better.
with you
Where are people at with thinking teams can win a Super Bowl without a QB on a rookie contract? The two top teams right now are probably the Chiefs and the Ravens who both have QB’s on a rookie contract. Are the Cardinals a team that could sneak into that discussion as well with Kyler Murray? Mostly the best teams in the NFC are teams that are paying the QB good money so the playing field is a little more even. Just curious what people think if a team is going to win a Super Bowl in the next few years while paying your QB top money?
It’s certainly a nice advantage to be the Chiefs, Ravens, and even the Cards, with top QB’s making a fraction of what top veteran QB’s like RW and Rodgers make. The Cowboys are going to feel it big time now as well with Dak commanding such a big salary. The worst case scenario though is for teams paying players like Goff or Flacco a few years ago top dollar for mediocre play.
I think it just means teams have to be much smarter when drafting and acquiring complementary players in free agency. They have to keep hitting on cheaper players, since it makes it very hard to be big players for top free agents each year.
Super bowl success is definitely achievable though, its just that the margin for error when acquiring other players is much smaller.
Good thoughts Simo.
Ditto. Well said Simo
Looking at the NFC these teams are paying the QB.
Eagles, Cowboys, Packers, Vikings, Lions Saints, Falcons, Bucs, 49ers, Seahawks, Rams (11)
These teams are kind of paying there QB’s:
Bears, Panthers (2)
These teams are not:
Cardinals, Giants, Redskins
I wonder if a reason the Packers selected Love is so they could be a team that has a good QB on a rookie contract and that they could load there roster for those 3 years to try and win a Super Bowl?
I wonder if the league would ever have two separate salary caps for teams (QB and rest of the team)? The NFL is a league that loves its parity and with the way the QB contracts are getting out of hand it does create an unfair advantage (albeit it is one that helped us as well). Have a team salary cap and a QB salary cap where teams can field an equal playing field.
Washington has Alex Smith on the books for the next 3 seasons. He’s $21m against the cap this year with a $32m dead cap number.
Your right Cha, they have the low paying Haskins but have the cap hit at QB like they have a top veteran so the Redskins are kind of more in the Bears/Panther situation.
The NFC always was about marginal advantages. Small things adding up leading to the playoffs or superbowl.
Nock Bosa in SF adding a healthy margin at one position is the best example for that.
We’re not giving enough credit to JS for “managing mediocrity” well enough to keep us in advantage to a lot of teams.
I don’t really see why he should get credit for managing mediocrity. I think Russell Wilson has been the main factor in managing mediocrity.
If anything, more should’ve been done this off-season to support RW.
San Fran just reached the SB while paying their QB top money.
Yes they did but they didnt win it. They got beat by a QB on a rookie contract. To your point thought the NFC seems more like an even playing field right now. Unless the Cards or Giants take a serious turn for the better the NFC should be wide open for a few years.
The Falcons didn’t blow a 25 point lead because Matt Ryan was paid too much.
The 9ers didn’t lose because they’re paying Jimmy G too much, they lost because he sucks.
😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣
They are paying Matt Ryan $30m a year which limits what you can pay other players so it all factors in.
The 49ers lost the Super Bowl because they got away from what got them there and stopped running the ball. They were running all over the Chiefs defense, with Deebo in particular. They lost because Shannahan choked in the clutch again.
100% agree
It’s not just QBs though. Look at the other highly paid members of a team. I think your argument would make more sense if you were able to factor them in as well (Kahlil Mack comes to mind as just an example).
Weird…I ask about media availability earlier and Olsen has a press conference with local media. Glad they’re making guys available during this time. Gives us something else to talk about.
The Seahawks are a team that has always been built to average around 27 points a game. Would you rather have it where your team averages around 10 points per game in the first half and around 17 in the second half? (this is more like we are) Or a team that averages around 17 points in the first half and 10 in the second half? We seem to be more of a 10/17 teams that likes to use the first half to establish things then take over in the second half. This is good because you learn how to win close games but you also let teams hang around. Or would we rather look to score more points in the first half then kind of milk the game away in the second. I heard someone this off season say they would like to see us more use the pass to set up the run then the other way around. Just some thoughts here to think about.
FWIW, Russell Wilson liked this tweet.
https://twitter.com/jtheaps9/status/1257343371019943938
I tend to agree, I would rather seem them play with a little more sense of urgency in the first half then they do in the second. Get that lead then step on peoples throats in the second and close it out.
Especially at home where the crown can get all amped up and really into it.
I have been thinking about “the plan” that JS has had for this off season. I meant to post in the last thread but did not put my thought together in time. Too busy doing nothing I guess! First off: It is hard to keep winning. Sometimes you need to zig when everyone else zags. In a strong draft for offensive linemen they stocked up on undervalued veterans knowing that a lot of teams would be drafting top ranked rookies and not looking as closely as they might at the free agents that were available.
In a similar fashion, last year saw a lot of highly ranked defensive linemen drafted. This year, teams may very well look at the highly paid vets on their roster and decide that they can get the same production out of a second year player for a lot cheaper, thus leading to some skilled vets hitting the streets. We still are waiting for this to happen and will probably be waiting till the roster cut downs to happen. This keeps with their strategy of finding value in unlikely places. That’s my take on why this offseason has been a little confusing to some of us!
Elijah Molden is one to watch.
He ran a 4.51 in Sparq with a 3.93 20 YD Shuttle. Also a 37 inch vertical.
121.44 Sqarq rating
I love Molden and saw Kiper is high on him, but his size makes a tough case as an outside corner. He’s probably an ideal nickel corner. Not many teams will spend an R1-3 on a nickel corner despite the talent. Will be curious if UW can feature him at FS or not.
Molden is the Huskies nickle back…
question for you Rob – – one of the best things about this site is the lack of trolls/dipshits who show up to offer no conversation beyond, ‘seattle is a trash city and fanbase’, etc., etc.
are you just vigilant about booting people off? or we’re just lucky here? Just curious.
I spend more time moderating the comments than I do writing the articles.
that is terrible.
ugh. well an extra thanks for that then.
you moderate all comments?? That’s insane. In general avg comments are 350, You really need some help with website with some cool feature like login. You can just white list regular user so less moderating.
Ready to help, choose a path to move on to new website and I’m all in.
A true labor of love. Much appreciated, and for what it’s worth, all your hard work shows.
Thanks man
My question is this: if the offseason DOES play out exactly like this with Clowney, Lynch, Mebane, and Gordon added to what they currently have do we think they are legitimate SB contenders?
I think they could get to the Super Bowl with that, not sure they could win it though.
I’d argue that we were contenders last year if our offense didn’t collapse with the running game, but our defense needed vast improvement to be legitimate contenders. Can we contend with this team? Yes. Our the odds in our favor against the ravens, chiefs, Niners? We will see…
I think we can beat the Niners but your right, the Ravens/Cheifs could be tough.
Just saw a pressure stat from PFF. Man Donald is a beast.
Pressures from 2017-2019
Donald…302
Jordan…242
Miller…241
Mack…234
That is a hundred pressures a year for Donald which is like 6 a game.
Why does it seem like half those 100 pressures a year are against the Hawks?
Probably because they are…lol
Man. Penn St. RB Journey Brown is exciting. So damn explosive.
https://youtu.be/uWTcBZN-6yY
Is Corey Liuget still out there? I thought he went to Buffalo. He could be a good vet DT. Still good side to side movement. Pass rush days far behind him though
Looks like he’s still available. I really wanted Seattle to draft him back in the day. No idea what kind of player he is now though.
Saw him when I was looking through the bargain bin guys. They usually like the heavier guys so Im not sure about his 300lbs.
Hey Rob/others, who do you see taking a step forward in year 2/3 of their careers? Any thoughts on some of the younger players? Thanks
Blair & Green. Penny woulda been my go to choice, but I’m not sure how healthy he’ll be when he returns.
Green turns 23 May 15th. He’s still young, 6’4″ 279. Blair turns 23 July 18th (One day before I turn 74!).
Unlike me, both these guys may, if we’re lucky, have some considerable upside! Fingers crossed.
Would love to see Amadi and Ursua step up and become legit starters in the Slot as CB and WR.
+12
Green for sure for me.
Rob,
It’s quite a testament to both you and the community you’ve built that you’re still getting over 300 comments on your articles this time of the year/NFL season.
Good on you.
.
Thank you — let’s keep it going
I’m pretty optimistic about Blair and Green taking steps forward again this year. We know Blair has the athleticism, it’s just about him getting up to speed. He showed it at times and should have had a 100+ yard pick 6 vs Tampa Bay.
Green has gotten better consistently. He has a high ceiling still and he may find his role this year. I think he could be a decent 5T/3T on par with like a QJeff this year. I also think he could be a bit better than that. I wouldnt br surprised if he adds some weight, or learns a move, etc. and gets 5-8 sacks. Hes got the frame and athleticism, he just needs time and who knows, maybe the Quarantine helps him (or other players) bulk up or learn more.
Also Poona Ford is better than he gets credit for. He does the dirty work and people hate blocking him. He could also learn a move and get a few more sacks this year.
Completely agree that Green could take the next step. He is still very young as he will only turn 23 next week.
I like Q Jeff but Green is already at his level. Similar tackles and sack numbers with less snaps. Not as many QB guys but last year was his first year if action and he is young for his class. I expect a good jump in skill. I think they will put the time into Blair. I just wonder if they will be bold enough to start him over Doog. I think Amadi has something too. Always around the ball. Kinda fearless
Green has shown practically nothing. He needs a rocket up his arse. There’s no fire.
Have we finally reached the breaking poiny? Please God let it be over…
https://mobile.twitter.com/markbermanfox26/status/1257860196329799684
Oh mann….! We need him to resign!! Looks like much of this is just posturing for a better contract with the Hawks… If we can get Clowney then I am a fan of this offseason.. Marshawn + an vet DT left to go!
That looks like a good sign.
The longer this goes, the more I get the feeling he will end up getting closer to what he wants, just like ETIII. Everybody thought it wasn’t going to happen for him, but then it only takes one team.
There are actually 4 different videos posted on that profile with different tweets.
Link: https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26
One of them says: