The Jadeveon Clowney stalemate is going to go on and on…
John Schneider was asked after the draft whether the stalemate with Jadeveon Clowney was preventing him from signing anyone else.
“No” was the firm and direct reply.
We’ll find out if that really is the case in the coming days.
The Seahawks created some cap room when they released Justin Britt and D.J. Fluker, leading to frenzied fans speculating about all sorts of potential corresponding moves.
The reality is pretty clear by now. They were always going to make those cuts and were simply waiting to see how things shaped up in the draft.
According to Spotrac they now have about $23m in overall cap space. This doesn’t include the amount you need to save for injured reserve or a practise squad. It doesn’t include the money for the 2020 draft class. It also doesn’t include Bruce Irvin’s currently unknown salary.
Seattle has some flexibility though. Which is important — because there’s still a lot to do.
For starters — there’s absolutely no way they’re going to go into a coronavirus impacted season with undrafted free agent Anthony Gordon as Russell Wilson’s backup. He’s a prime candidate for some practise squad seasoning if he earns the opportunity in a camp. They need to sign a veteran for the season proper and that likely means a return for Geno Smith at some stage.
The Seahawks can sign Smith at any time. They haven’t, so far, despite it seeming like a pretty straight forward arrangement.
They also need to sign a defensive tackle. So far they’ve lost Al Woods at the position and not replaced him. It’s inevitable that someone will be added. However, as of today, nobody has been.
It’s also very possible they will add competition at running back and receiver. That could mean Carlos Hyde, Devonta Freeman or Isaiah Crowell plus Josh Gordon. Again — these are all deals that could happen at any moment. They haven’t.
The obvious explanation is the Seahawks are still waiting to try and work out a conclusion to the Clowney stalemate. They know it’s going to be an expensive addition, whenever it happens. Eating up their cap space now just makes it even harder.
Until that deal is done — or he signs somewhere else — they can’t really act.
You might say it’s time to move on. Just sign Everson Griffen instead.
I suspect the Seahawks have been tempted. You don’t want a situation like this dragging on for months.
However — I also think they’ve determined that Clowney is their best bet. I think they made that call at the start of free agency too, which is why they never really showed much interest in any of the other free agent defensive ends.
Their apparent willingness to wait this out as long as he is feels like an admission that they can’t get anyone better. If they move on now and just leave him as a free agent, they might just be cutting off their nose to spite their face. They’d be removing the opportunity to make their team the best it can be. I sense they’re not willing to do that and they don’t think any alternative comes close. Therefore, they’re waiting.
I would’ve said a few weeks ago it’s a risky strategy. Now I’m not so sure. Griffen hasn’t signed anywhere else. Damon Harrison hasn’t signed anywhere else. Marcel Dareus hasn’t signed anywhere else. Brandon Mebane hasn’t signed anywhere else.
None of the potential options for Seattle appear to have much of a market. Until things pick up — they pretty much can afford to continue this waiting game.
Ideally someone would force their hand either way. The passing of the comp pick deadline felt like a potential turning point. Would a team offer Clowney a big offer now, knowing it wouldn’t impact their picks in 2021?
The answer was no. The stalemate continued.
That’s probably because any other suitor is in the same boat as Seattle. It’s not really about getting a medical for Clowney. It’s about him wanting more than the league is willing to pay. Nothing will change in that regard. So Clowney, as is his prerogative, is deciding to leave his options open. He knows there will always be a team willing to sign him. He’s clearly willing, as a very rich man already, to gamble a few million to try and win this negotiating battle.
It’s probably not a good strategy — but he’s not going to be forced into a contract he doesn’t like. If he wants to go that route, who can blame him really? You’ve got to put yourself in the position of a man who’s already earned over $50m in his career.
The latest update is he’s still prepared to wait this out.
The Seahawks won’t want to chip away at their remaining cap until the door slams shut with Clowney. While ever the likes of Griffen, Harrison and others are available — they won’t feel any serious pressure either, even if there’s a great deal of frustration.
Seattle’s remaining business this off-season is almost certainly limited to the addition of one or Clowney or Griffen, a defensive tackle, a veteran backup quarterback and maybe a cheap veteran running back and receiver. They appear willing to go with the competition they already have at nickel corner — but that’s also an area they could add to (although there’s never been a splash here previously)
There were all sorts of weird and wonderful trades being pitched on the internet on Sunday. The reality is the Britt and Fluker moves were inevitable and not a precursor to anything big. The key to the remaining off-season is Jadeveon Clowney. The slow dance, I’m afraid, is going to continue.
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Great stuff, Rob (content, not situation – haha).
One thing I noticed (because I have nothing else to do) is that Taylor posted a picture of himself in uniform yesterday, with the number 91 being his choice… Not only that, but Reed has mentioned “90” in several posts recently, so I assume he’s reclaimed his original jersey number.
It could be nothing, but could also be the team saying very clearly “you’re not bigger than the sum” by making these numbers available.
Who knows!
Go Hawks!!!
I think it’s just a case of Reed requesting his old number back and them saying ‘yes’. After all, he’s signed. Clowney hasn’t. And that works for Taylor, who wore #19 in college (so I’m guessing that’s why he wants #91).
It’s not indicative of anything with Clowney though. He’s not going to come or not come to Seattle because of a number.
It’s just an observation I made.
However, numbers are a bigger deal to players (especially great ones) than I think some realize.
There is a big respect factor around them. For instance, Reed letting Clowney wear 90 last year, Largent letting Rice “unretire” 80, Jacob Green letting Red Bryant do the same with 79, etc.
Also, why haven’t they made 29 or 31 available, but have for 24 and 25? THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS.
It’s most likely nothing, but something I noticed.
J Reed is probably jabbing at Clowney, because Clowney paid him for #90 last year.
Oh, he paid him? Haha. Good for Reed.
Nah, he’s smart. Clowney will now have to pay him twice for #90.
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at with “jabbing”
I don’t know – I think these guys text each other – esp if they played next to each other all last year – and I do kind of take this as a bad sign.
Just supposition of course.
Even Reed himself has come out and said how it’s a total non-story.
Jarran Reed is clearlt attached to #90. He may even be superstitious about it. After all, his best season happened in that number. And he likely requested the change because he’s on the team and Clowney isn’t.
That’s it really. I’m afraid anything else is mere internet hysteria during a lull in actual NFL news. Still, I’m sure it gave a few people something to write about today.
There is more to a number than superstition. A supposed amount of respect is given to to the number worn on game day. If #3 is worn by any other Seahawk it will be out of tremendous respect.
That’s not really relevant here though
oh, well that’s good. I take it back. 🙂
Aaaaand….that’s how you turn a jersey number into a story.
I agree about the nickel situation. I could see us using more draft from next year to grab a guy we really like. We’ve done this a few times in recent years.
As far as Clowney goes, I wouldn’t put it past him to wait right up until training camp or the beginning of the season. It sucks, but after seeing him do it to Houston, you just have to kind of expect it. And why not? He clearly values himself higher than what the Seahawks do. I just wish wish we would’ve hedged our bets better during free agency.
The problem they’ve got is they’ve clearly (IMO) determined that Plan A far outweighs even Plan B. So even signing Everson Griffen will be a weakening of a D-line they know full well was horrendous a year ago. I think they are spooked by the possibility of having another year like that.
It’s a major failure that they’ve not been able to sort the DL out. They needed bookend rushers and preferably some interior pressure. So far they’ve added journeyman and a couple of rookies.
Rob: We agree. The Defensive line will not be as good as last if Clowney doesn’t resign. We know this because you keep telling us this over and over and over again.
Totally agree.
Garofolo followed that tweet up answering a fan and saying that the final offer from SEA was “very strong” financially.
As much as this sucks, I also look at it that SEA put the correct value on Clowney. Whether he likes it or not, the league doesn’t view him as a $20M player currently. He may have laughed off the offer from SEA, but it sure seems like it wasn’t unfair given his cold market. They could’ve opened up the coffers, but they aren’t comfortable doing that and the market has proven that they don’t have to. Both sides have dug in their heels, and we’re in for the long haul unless Clowney folds. I don’t think SEA will.
Yup. Someone suggested he should re-unite with the coach with whom he had a lot of success: Vrabel. Garafolo replied:
Yeah I’m not sure i buy that. Vrabel knows him as well as Seattle does and they both seem to value him at the same dollar amount. If he signs a one year, in terms of opportunity i could see Titans being more appealing due to scheme maybe but i’ve read he didn’t always like rushing from a wide OLB alignment.. They were also very low in sacks and pass rush stats too. Is Beasley really better of a running mate than Reed? Seattle is still the better option to me. He is used to the scheme and getting some guys on the outside will also let him kick inside sometimes and be a stand up rusher over the guard like he has had success with in the past.
I take exception to describing us as frenzied! We’re not frenz…
//remembers the Ngakoue carpet swatch debate
I withdraw my statement.
LOL
I saw people touting Chris Jones… Jamal Adams…. which was never happening.
I am hopelessly, irrationally yearning for Jamal Adams – at the very least; it’s only crazy to a small degree.
Chris Jones is galaxy brain nuts – KC is not giving up the 2nd best interior player in the NFL.
Adams ain’t happening either. Not because the Jets won’t. But because they can’t. They have to fix other areas.
Oh I know…I just think he’s the one guy that marries up skill with the leadership that you will need in the future.
That dude is the poster child for BAMF.
Agreed there — he is intense on the field.
Speaking of backup QB, seeing Jameis get 1.1 mill to be a back up, yes 1.1 only!!! frustrates me and wishing we could have got him for 2 lol
I think Jameis did what is best for him at this point in his career. He has talent but bad decision-making skills and if anyone can help him it will be the Saints. I wish him luck
I think it’s N.O. taking advantage of a unique situation. Their superstar QB is year to year and Jamies, already with millions in the bank, is happy to intern for a year and either take over in 2021 for the Saints in a great system, or getting a healthy contract with another team.
It’s an opportunity the Hawks couldn’t offer. RW isn’t going anywhere, and likely the backup QB isn’t playing much if at all.
I’m totally content leaving a player with Winston’s history off the field to another team.
+1
If he doesnt want to do training camp (like alot of veterans dont) this could go into August. Hopefully it doesnt. I wonder if the Hawks have an internal cut off date for this or if they will just ride it out to the end.
Camp’s not the issue.
It’s Clowney having an idea of his value, teams not matching, and him — a $50m man — deciding he’s not going to dance to their tune, even if costs him money down the road.
I think because he didn’t get the big contract with lots of guaranteed money this is definitely a consideration for him. I’ve heard from countless veteran NFL players that training camp is absolutely brutal and dreaded. Tony Pauline told Rob that Clowney doesn’t practice during the season due to injury issues he has to manage (A key reason why his market is limited) He’s also risking further injury if he participates in training camp. Why risk it and put yourself through that if you know you are going to have to settle for a 1 year deal with little guaranteed money? He may already be looking at his situation and trying to figure out how he can best hit the open market next year.
Camp isn’t the issue if he’s getting Aaron Donald money, sure. But, at this point, he’s probably looking at a 1 year deal due to the cold marker caused by his injury issues and lack of production. Why wouldn’t whether he has to participate in training camp or not be a consideration for him? Obviously much less an issue than overall compensation.
Wouldn’t be surprised either way if hawks set a cutoff date before camp or are content letting him wait as long as he wants (even if it’s a couple days before the season starts).
It’s nothing to do with camp.
Clowney played with a sports hernia for crying out loud.
It’s all to do with his salary expectations and the reality in free agency.
I remember a quote (from Pete I believe) about looking for players that “tilt the field”. I think in context he was talking about RW but I think it applies to Clowney here and why they are waiting it out. Clowney tilts the field. For as good of a DE as Griffin is, he does not. Clowney also does it from different positions all over the field, Griffin is strictly an end/LEO which we addressed in the draft.
I was pretty sure this would be over by the draft – I was wrong.
Clowney completes the defense. “Fix the pass rush” has been the mantra this offseason. We won’t know if it is “fixed” until games start. But adding Irvin, Mayowa, and Taylor in addition to getting a full season from Reed and the potential development of Green and Collier, should lead to a better pass rush.
But that is all dependent on resigning Clowney. Dude is just disruptive in a way that none of the other options are. I am glad we did not trade for Ngokue, who is a clear #2 rusher not worthy of the $16-20 mil/yr he would want.
This stalemate is just like this pandemic. Frustrating, forcing everyone to be patient, and no clue when it might end.
Oh he’s going early, early. Has NFL written all over him.
2800 passing yds, 28 TDs, 0 INTs. 6’3, 225 lbs.
Trey Lance, QB, ND St.
https://youtu.be/yr7SMlKkgnE
There’s a Steve McNair esque quality about this kid.
who dat #87? pretty good looking TE there. #82 looks like a Hollister clone…
They’re playing the Ducks in Autzen, week one (TBD). That’s going to be a test, as our defense is amazing on paper. The entire secondary is back and 4 of them should be on NFL teams next year (Holland, Breeze, Lenior, Graham). The best CB is a sophomore (Mykael Wright) and we brought in another 5 star DB this class (Dontae Manning).
If he can show out in that game, I’ll be impressed.
He’s a 1st round prospect all day long regardless of what he does in that game. He shows out in that one he’ll go top half of round 1. So far he’s the best QB I’ve seen behind ‘Sunshine’ and it’s a very good group of QBs this year.
What about the Ohio State kid, Justin Fields? Purdue has a good one, but I haven’t watched him at all… Purdy
Not taking anything away from Lance. I’ll check him out.
I like Fields. He’ll probably go late 1st-early 2nd w/ a good year. Purdy is intriguing.
So far the 3 best QBs I’ve seen are ‘Sunshine,’ Lance, and Jamie Newman. And then you still have Slovis (USC), Trask (Florida), Mond (A&M), Ehlinger (Texas), Morgan (Minnesota), and a couple more will emerge.
Be interesting to see what Costello does with Leach at MSU too.
Definitely. He’s another one.
He won’t declare this year. I said Joe Burrow last year to y’all before the season even started and didn’t get a blink from anyone. Welp, this Brennan kid looks pretty damned good as well from what I’ve seen so far. Keep an eye on him.
https://youtu.be/ldW1gCOLfqI
You should dig up that comment and bookmark it. Hit the nail on the head there.
I watched Brennan’s ‘highlights’ but those were blowout games against awful opponents. Sorry, but when it’s 55-3 vs Georgia Southern, and your highlights are a swing pass to the RB… It’s hard to say that there is or isn’t anything there.
In that LSU offense, he’ll put up some numbers, no doubt. I’ll need to see him play a meaningful snap before I get too excited though.
True that. We’re all very excited down here to see what Brennan can offer. He looked great though in limited action against inferior opponents, as he should’ve. Orgeron no doubt will have another great recruiting class for us this year. So glad to see 2 of my boys end up on the Seahawks. Damien Lewis I believe was a no star recruit. Justin Jefferson a 2 star, Clyde Edwards-Helaire a 3 star. Orgeron kept speaking about character and how he values it above all else. I think they even have a class for it here.
He looks really damn good. A lot of those TD’s were into his progressions too.
They sure love their TE’s. 87 & 82 must have had 15 TD’s.
Suck for Sunshine?
“Win NEVER for Trevor!”
Ok, I’m two seconds into that highlight clip and am cracking up. “Fishing in the dark” for the music!? I might have to sub that channel just for that!
Right? That one caught me off guard but I found myself kinda jammin’ to it.
As someone who lives in North Dakota and watches most NDSU games you have to understand how dominant that team is in BCS. I would rate him above Easton Stick (LAC) but below Carson Wentz. Their running game and O-Line is dominant which opens up the passing opportunities
Watch #1 on the play starting at the 3:35 mark. He is wide to the right (bottom of the screen), does a 5 or 10 yard in route and is completely out of the play. Then watch who is at the goal line with the TE that scores. Wow!
A couple of names that we were pretty high on last year that may be roster cuts: Trysten Hill (DT: DAL) & Billy Price (C/G: CIN).
Cowboys signed Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe in FA, and drafted Neville Gallimore in round 3.
Bengals had Price on the trade block prior to the draft.
Neither may be realistic, as we probably need a DT we can trust and our OL is still pretty deep. Interesting names to me though, as they both seem to be on the outside looking in to their respective teams.
The Cowboys aren’t going to cut Trysten Hill after one season.
Rob. As far as the DT position we certainly need more guys do you think the Seahawks are waiting for more cap casualties? And do have a preference. Marell Dareus or Mike Daniels or Brandon Mebane?
I am equally underwhelmed with all the DT options. Calais… 🙁
Maybe, but Rod Marinelli was the DC who pegged Hill and Taco Charleton as 2nd and 1st round picks. He’s no longer there. They cut Charleton after two years and change. Maybe they’d do a player swap for a position of need.
The name just stood out to me, as I thought Poe would have been a nice pickup for us, when he signed. I was looking for the details and came across this article:
https://insidethestar.com/do-dt-signings-indicate-cowboys-are-done-with-trysten-hill/
It would cost them an extra $700k to move him to play somewhere else. And they’d be writing off a R2 after one season. That ain’t happening.
Fine
Wait. What happened to Marinelli?
Moved to coach with the Raiders.
Oh wow. That’s a great hire with all the young talent on that line.
Head Cowboys scout(s) recommended TJ Watt. Coaches said he was too much of a “tweener” so they took Taco. It’s a sore subject with Cowboy scouts.
‘Snacks’ has been known for his run defense. Seattle has a good track record finding cost effective vet DTs who are able to contribute.
I wonder if he’d take that sort of near vet minimum deal they seem to go for at that spot. Given how bad he was last year he may not have many competing offers.
Couldn’t resist… Here’s to you Jadeveon… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9l4tovIWk
I’m certain that the Seahawks will monitor the Ngakoue situation. Perhaps there could be Clowney trade version 2 this offseason.
Not advocating that is the optimum solution over Clowney or Griffen, or the preferred solution, as there’s a lot of uncertainty and many things would have to fall in place on between Jax-Seattle-Ngakoue. But it is a possibility.
The Jags had their chance to get a deal and baulked. I think they’re heading towards an Earl Thomas situation.
I just don’t see Yannick happening now.
We drafted two Leo’s and have two rotational Leo’s via free agency.
We need improvement on the other end, which was Clowney’s role. Currently, LJ and Green would fill that void.
At this point it would be nice to have Clowney for two years then just move on from him. At that point he would be 29 and someone else can have him. Personally if I was his agent there is now way I would sign a two year deal. I would only do one or a long term deal that he liked.
I’d be fine with a 1-year deal with the promise not to franchise him again. It would give Taylor and Robinson a year to get up to speed.
Does Everson Griffen ever rush from the interior? I feel like that is a big reason why we want Clowney back. He’s versatile in where we can rush him from. With Bruce, Taylor, Mayowa and even Robinson, it seems like we have a number of candidates to rush from the outside. Clowney could get on the field with those guys at the same time, while maybe Griffen can’t.
Clowney’s also better — and I think they’re wary of losing their one performer from last season with star potential. He won them a game in San Fran and damn near won them a playoff game vs Philly. They know they can’t go into next year without him if they realistically want to take a step forward.
As much as I love Clowney and would be my first choice I could really see Griffen not only being a contributor but a great mentor for guys like Green and Collier. We have Irvin who can help out and mentor our new edge guys but having a guy like Griffen around could prove very valuable in two different ways.
I’ve no doubt he would have a positive influence.
But you also need some game wreckers who can actually win you a game. And the Seahawks don’t have any of those on their DL.
Are Seahawk’s plan is to ride on young guns with limited experience of Irvin and B Mayoya? Or they are planning to add someone at 53 cut? Too risky if that is the plan.
Well they’re trying to add Clowney.
What if they trade the first or second round of 2021 for another pass rusher?
Assuming Clowney signed on another team
That’s not happening
This standoff with Clowney continues to reflect just how poorly this offseason has gone for the Seahawks. I know we’ve gone over this quite a bit already and that people normally prefer to be optimistic about their team ( I get it, it’s more fun to think that way).
The Seahawks entered this offseason with a decent amount of draft picks and salary cap room in a division that was already tough and getting better. They had obvious needs in the pass rush and speed of their defense and holes in their offense due to injuries to some of their skill players. Their star QB is now 30 and most likely has a prime window of 3-5 years.
In my opinion , the response has been bafflingly weak. During free agency, they overloaded on mediocre offensive linemen, added a couple of older D-linemen as rotational pass rushers and re-signed some of their own guys ( again, more depth pieces than standouts).
The draft represented a chance to draft some outstanding cheap skill players for the offense to build around for Russ and we chose mostly developmental players for the future. I do like the potential for Brooks and Lewis but were they honestly positions of need for this team? Again, I understand the excitement around new players in general and the thought of how great they might be but did this draft help push us to the next level for the next few years? It doesn’t feel like that to me. The Seahawks may be drafting to specs but it doesn’t feel like they are taking the right risks to tap the difference makers that would give you that big boost. Incremental change doesn’t really push the needle but keeps things comfortably the same with a few minor variances.
The situation with Clowney represents this. Even though you gave up a third round draft pick and a couple of players because you saw him as a unique player, you’re only going to re-sign him if he falls into your planned number? And, if he does, what kind of feeling/attitude is he going to have coming back here? These situations with Richardson and Clowney feel like short term adjustments to long standing problems and it doesn’t look like it’s been fixed yet.
This team has been good primarily due to how extraordinary Wilson has been, he’s covered a lot of holes. For as much as we all like John and Pete, it feels like they haven’t matched him.
So you’re complaining that the defense is old and slow and the Oline is bad, then also complaining that they drafted a fast young player on D and a high upside O lineman? Then you acknowledge that the offense is the strength of the team but are mad they didn’t add more skill players and ignore the needs you’re mad both about them addressing as well as not addressing?
It really sounds like your pessimism is just as willful and biased and the over optimism you’re trying to call out.
Not at all. I’m saying these players they drafted are ( for this year at least) replacement level players for players/positions that weren’t really need positions. As much as we may like Lewis in the future, Fluker could easily have been as good if not better. We hope Brooks and Taylor will be better than KJ or Irving but don’t really have a strong feeling they will. Free agency and the draft have not moved that needle for the team this year and they really should have.
I feel like there are only a handful of positions that make a year 1 impact, unless they are top 10 picks and truly the elite of a draft class. RB and WR are the two that stand out to me as most likely to be difference makers right off the bat. Many other positions are viewed as needing a year to develop, and as such, you need to look to 2021 for those contributions.
I hear you, I was hoping for a completely different FA and draft. That being said, KJ is likely done after this year and for better or worse, we play more base defense that anyone in the NFL. Getting his replacement to make that transition can be justified, if not agreed with.
You mention that we lacked speed on D, and those were the first two picks. Fluker’s contract (and Britt’s) meant that they were the most likely to be cut. When Lewis fell in our laps, taking him can be justified as well.
TE is notoriously one position that needs a year (or two) to click. I would have loved Amik in that spot, but with Olsen a year away from the booth, Dissly an injury risk I understand the thought.
Yes, those are fair points. It was the RB and WR positions I hoped they would take the risk on upside with Choosing Taylor or Helaire with the first pick and someone like Claypool or Mims for the second. D-line should have been addressed in free agency instead of the stopgaps they went with. It just feels like they played things safe instead of trying to take things to the next level and I think it’s going to be costly for them.
In fairness, they did address RB, just probably later than most of us wanted. That said, having a good line can make a running back look better, so I have no problem with adding Lewis. I think he can be a first year starter easily. I do wish they would have picked up another receiver as well before the 6th round, but there were so many positions of need that it is unrealistic to address all of them. That said, why trade a 6th from next year for a 7th this year when they probably could have got Sullivan as an UDFA? I like the kid, but I just don’t see the reason to move back into the draft at the cost of a higher pick next year.
They did that because clearly they weren’t going to be able to sign him as an UDFA.
Yep. Listen to his interview with Softy. He had UDFA offers from Philly and Dallas and Miami told him they were going to take him with the exact pick we traded for.
Besides, that’s a 7th rounder. Hardly the make or break decision of the draft.
Couldn’t agree more, it’s curious they’d trade a 6th round pick for another TE, no matter how good his backstory may be. As for the RB, a 4th round pick seems really high for someone who didn’t do mucH in college and projects as a 3rd down back. Lewis feels like he’ll be force-fed the right guard role once they cut Fluker. Curious and in my opinion questionable drafting in a year they should have been taking better chances.
Lewis is the last pick anyone should quibble about. It was quality value for a top player in this class.
They didn’t draft him to be a TE. Catch up man…
If you were an UDFA TE – who would you sign with?
1. A team loaded at TE with at least 4 guys in front of you?
2. Or would you sign somewhere where you think you’d have the best chance at making a roster?
I think it’s pretty clear why they traded for him. There’s no way an agent would want to sign with a team stacked with players at the position of your client.
Rob: As usually you pretty much NAILED it. Keep up the good work. God Bless you, your family and everyone and this forum.
May the force be with you.
👍🏻
Yo, only one more year exactly till next draft, y’all. Get on it!
One early name I’d like to throw in is Keaontay Ingram. He may not declare, but he had good size (6’0″ 220), good explosiveness, good change in direction, great moves, wicked in space, and great at pushing through defenders by using power, balance, forward lean, and constant leg movement. Not to mention he has value in the receiving game if you ignore his endzone drop against LSU. He’s my RB3 currently behind Etienne and Harris, who both could also be options for the Seahawks.
Just throwing this out for something to talk about. If we decide to go with 26 players on defense, 26 players on offense. Then decide to go with 2 QB’s 5 RB/FB’s and 10 OLineman, who are the remaining 9 players for TE and WR?
Do you go 5 WR’s and 4 TE’s or 6 and 3? A couple guys are getting left out.
Metcalf, Lockett, Dorsett, Moore, Ursua, Swain, Olsen, Dissly, Parkinson, Hollister, Willson, Sullivan.
Im not sure Dorsett is a lock. I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up cutting him over ursua, swain, and/or Sullivan.
Injuries tend to sort some of that out.
I think the belief that the roster is expanding to 55 is a bit of a misconception. You still have 53 names locked onto your roster, but then every week you can call up 2 more guys from the practice squad to the active roster.
So basically, I think you still would only name a 53 man roster at the start of the season before getting to put your practice squad together. I’m not totally sure on how it works though so I could be wrong.
I dont either, I thought it was a straight up 55? But it doesnt really matter for the exercise I was trying to have fun with. I was just trying to get people thoughts on who the 9 WR/TE’s people would choose.
At this point I would go:
1) WR: Lockett, Metcalf, Dorsett, Moore, Ursua/swain (loser of the competition to the practice squad hopefully)
2) TE: Olsen, Dissly, Hollister, Parkinson (hopefully keep Sullivan on the practice squad, keep Wilson for the ghost roster).
But this presumes uncle will is healthy to atart the year and not on IR. And lot could change through camp and preseason. I’m hoping for a veteran addition at wideout to push Moore and Dorsett.
All sounds good to me. Im assuming Dissly should be healthy, he ruptured that thing early in the season so in theory he should be good. I ruptured my achilles really bad and was playing soccer again in 4 months so a young dude like him you think would heal quicker.
Swain is mostly there at this point for special teams. I’d say he’s the favourite to return kicks/punts while seeing only a handful of WR snaps. I don’t think they can keep Ursua on the roster unless they plan to actually give him a decent amount of snaps at WR. I think more likely Dorsett versus Ursua. Ursua has a tough time making it without an injury.
Exactly the TE room and scenario I expect there.
WR
Metcalf, Lockett, Moore, Dorsett + one of: Ursua, Swain, Sullivan, Penny Hart, Cody Thompson, Seth Dawkins
Wild Card: If Swain or Sullivan impress in camp, I could see Moore being let go. And Sullivan is listed as a WR on the roster, not a TE
TE
Olsen, Dissly*, Hollister, Parkinson + one of: Willson, Justin Johnson, Tyler Mabry
*Dissly I think starts on the PUP, but he has shown to be a fast healer in the past!
I also think we could still see an addition to the WR group if someone becomes available…
Wild Card: If they decide to use Ogbuehi as a swing tackle/extra TE, then Willson is gone for sure!
Sorry, was supposed to be a reply to Greg’s post above…
Thats OK but you named 10 guys not 9.
That’s with Dissly on PUP or IR, if he is healthy then Willson, Johnson or Mabry are gone…Johnson or Mabry to the PS.
And I really could see them keeping 6 WR and 4 TE too, especially if they roll with some younger guys.
Clowney is obviously a very talented player, so why is he getting cold shoulders in FA?
I believe it is consensus among the league that he can not stay healthy through out 16 games schedule.
What if the league expand to 17 or 18 games schedule?
Remember last year, Hawks were in championship form by mid-season, then they limped through the final 4 games due to the injury?
They cut Britt, Fluke and Wood because they cannot be accountable by season end when it matter the most. Nothing more frustrating them watch CJ Prosise last 1 quarter after Carson went down.
I think the odds of Clowney coming back are very low. The Seahawks wanted him, made what they felt was a fair, market level, offer, and watched him back away from negotiations. They moved on by signing low budget vets and drafting two LEOs with the assumption Clowney is not coming back. They can always revisit when he’s ready to make a move, but it’s possible the trust has been broken. I don’t think we’ll see him in a Hawks uniform again.
The odds will be very low when they sign someone else.
Until then, they remain very high. Because if they’re waiting this out and saving themselves for Clowney, there’s a very good chance they’ll still be his best option whenever he comes to make a decision.
They also presumably still hold the ability to match or slightly exceed any new offers Clowney gets, unless that isn’t, or never was, something they are still promised.
Of course Clowney could decide to accept another very similar offer from a team he prefers, but don’t think the odds aren’t low yet. Here’s to hoping the process doesn’t draw out for weeks/months yet!
I don’t even think it’s going to come to that, to be honest.
The ‘medical’ side of things people talk about is a red herring. The real problem is he has a view of his worth that doesn’t chime with the NFL. No team is going to turn around in August and say… ‘hey I’m now going to offer you $20m a year’. He has already received everyone’s best offer. And it’s clear Seattle’s is the best offer. Now it’s up to him.
It seems clear to me that he’s responding to that by deciding he’s not going to take the ‘best offer’ and he’d rather wait out the situation, even if it costs him money. A lot of people are criticising him for that but it’s his prerogative. And when you’ve got more money than you’ll ever need like he has, he can afford to gamble on the highly unlikely off-chance that someone ponies up a load more money down the line. Which probably won’t happen.
It’s frustrating as hell for us because who knows when he’ll decide enough is enough? It could be tomorrow or it could be three days before a season starting.
But the Seahawks have equally (again, it seems obvious) decided they can’t do any better than Clowney and therefore rather than move on (and signing Mayowa is NOT moving on, despite what they tried to claim) they are also waiting this out. They could sign Everson Griffen now. Plus a QB, DT, RB and WR. But they haven’t. And it’s purely, 100%, because Clowney is still out there. Until he signs somewhere else, they appear destined to keep the door open.
I know its unlikely but I wish we could just trade for Chris Jones and get rid of this whole Clowney saga. Really not a fan of him anymore.
Well sure, but I also wish they could trade for any top-tier defensive lineman. Unfortunately there aren’t a bunch of teams lining up to let the Seahawks have their best players.
Which is why they are waiting out Clowney. Because they seem to have come to the conclusion that none of the alternative options get close to his impact level.
Makes sense. My only worry -like what you said in this article- is that this may take a really long time. I can see Clowney waiting for the entire covid crisis to be over (or at least when they can start practicing again).
The medical side of things and coronavirus is a red herring. He’s waiting for someone to make a better offer, whatever the circumstances. And that better offer won’t come.
The media are still referring to Colby Parkinson in the ‘WR3’ terms rather than the developmental TE he is. Which is a little frustrating. Parkinson, as pointed out in yesterday’s piece, is a prototype for what they look for at the position. Regardless of how he was used at Stanford. They’re not making him a receiver. They are going to try and mould him into a Y-TE.
The piece yesterday on Parkinson really pointed out how much he has the profile they would want to develop into a TE for sure! And are you hearing that media thinks Sullivan is a TE? Seems like that what was said after the draft yet PC has said he will be a big WR…kind of funny things are viewed sometimes.
It is frustrating sometimes.
People have questioned the Deejay Dallas pick too — yet if you study the profile they go for, as we do on here every year, we identified him in March as a possible target. They needed a RB so took one who ‘fits’ their ‘type’. Simple really. And it’s the same with Parkinson, Lewis, Brooks and Taylor. Even Alton Robinson — yeah he doesn’t have the length but he’s a R5 and he has the short shuttle they love. And Sullivan was an ‘energy’ pick. Just someone they really wanted to have around and present an opportunity to.
If you spend some time considering what they look for at each position, everything makes sense. Even if you don’t like the player or the pick — at least know why they’ve done it.
Sorry if it’s been asked already, but can Everson Griffen actually replace Clowney at 5T, or is he just a leo?
He’s neither really. Not what you’d call a prototype LEO because he lacks length but also not a guy who really suits playing inside out. I’d call him a defensive end.
What is the consensus on Takk McKinley who was just released by Atlanta?
He wasn’t released, they just didn’t pick up his fifth year option.
He wasn’t released. 5th-year option wasn’t picked up.
Whoops. My bad.
He didn’t get released. They just declined his 2021 option. Still a Falcon.
Guess I should refresh before posting
Disagreement w/Rob en route…
I don’t think they should spend a dime of salary cap on a backup QB. Here’s why:
History says the odds they would need someone to fill in at QB it are pretty dang low… like, remotely so. From the time he was in college, Russ has shown himself to be incredibly durable. So, why spend on something you won’t need?
What if the odds catch up to him/us and Russ does go down with injury? Well…
1) His injuries in 2016/2017 tell me he won’t go down. Or, at least he won’t stay down.
2) If Russ ever stays down, it will be for the better part of the year, if not the entire thing. If that happens, better play for the future is to take the lumps of an awful season and take the opportunity to finally get a top-5 pick.
Bottom line: Use the money on Gino toward a position that helps the Seahawks make a SB run, b/c backup QB ain’t it.
Geno Smith cost the Seahawks $805,000 last season.
You’re talking like he was on $3-4m.
There is absolutely NO WAY they can go into next season with Anthony Gordon as they unchallenged backup QB. And they won’t. They just need to get this Clowney situation sorted.
Agree.
Likely Gordon would get snatched off the practice squad, so I wonder if they’ll carry 3 quarterbacks, this year.
I don’t see any reason why Gordon would be snatched off the practise squad. He’d have to light up pre-season. He was undrafted for a reason.
Why NO WAY?
Tell me… what good does Gino Smith do? How does he help build a winner in any way*?
Think of it this way… Devonta Freeman is offered $3m to go to team B. He calls Schneider and says for $3.5, I’m yours. If it comes down to needing that $900K to tip the scales to bring a Devonta Freeman to Seattle, isn’t that better than a player who brings literally nothing to the table*?
*This is the crux of the argument. Smith is a waste of money. ANY backup QB is. If Russ goes down, he is either getting back up and playing against all orders, or, he is staying down. Either way, the backup QB is beyond worthless to a team that needs every penny to build a winner.
Come on Andrew.
If the backup QB was such a massive waste of time and money, everyone would have an undrafted free agent as backup.
Geno Smith costs $805,000. That’s the real life equivalent of a ham sandwich. If Wilson gets hurt in a game and has to miss a series, or a half, or even a game. There is absolutely NO WAY (I’ll say it again, NO WAY) you want a rookie, undrafted free agent coming into a game who has had NO rookie camp, NO OTA’s, maybe not even a full training camp.
That would be insane.
You’re also ignoring the impact of a veteran backup in the meeting room during the week and as an extra set of eyes on the sideline.
“If Wilson gets hurt in a game and has to miss a series, or a half, or even a game”
Think I’m talking out of my arse… fair. Then well me… when was the last time this happened? When did He ever miss more than one snap?
That’s the point… HE DOESN’T! He won’t! He physically and mentally will not allow this to happen. Miami ’16, Arizona ’17… the dude doesn’t stay down.
It comes back to the original point… While $900k might be a ham sandwich, this team needs all the ham sandwiches it can get to not waste another year of Russ’ prime (I think I’ve heard that on here).
You’re so wrong on this.
As has been pointed out to you by John S. The difference in salary between an UDFA rookie and Smith is $300k. So it’s not even a ham sandwich. It’s two slices of dry, stale bread.
And while it’s great that Wilson hasn’t missed any games, that doesn’t mean he’ll NEVER miss a game/series/half. Imagine if he got a mild concussion in week 17 and they needed a win to get homefield advantage. And then Anthony Gordon trots out instead of a veteran with half a clue on what to do, who’s already spent a year in the system.
Come on. Be serious here.
And we already seen this actual scenario play out in 2016 when Russ hurt his ankle week 1 and knee week 3. Those injuries were serious enough where he should’ve sat a few week.
Problem was that they had rookie Trevonne Boykin as the backup. An injured Russ was better than a rookie Trevonne. Now if they would’ve had a veteran backup would they have sat Russ maybe one game? Two games and the bye?
Name a backup that he would’ve said, “Oh, word. We got ____ ____. I’ll sit, then”.
I’ll wait.
Just take the L Andrew.
So… You are going to bring in a near worthless asset for something that might happen in Week 17?
Funny, I thought of this scenario when pondering what good a backup to Russ is. What you named is literally the ONLY reason to bring Smith in. The off hand chance that week 17 means something, and he gets hurt and it will only cost him a half of football (which… c’mon, he’s staying in).
So, you’re argument boils down to something of a .02% chance of happening? Got it.
Stop digging
Rookie contract is $495k. Geno making $805k means there’s only a $310k difference to keep a veteran.
If the team doesn’t have $310k in your example for Devonta Freeman, then that means that they’ve mismanaged the cap.
BINGO! Perfect analogy, John_s
That 310K difference is basically nothing because, as mentioned, it’s not the the $805k Geno Smith would make would go to an empty roster spot. So having that open roster spot means you have to pay someone the $495k to keep costs as low as possible. I don’t see how $310k could mean the difference between getting a player to put them over the top.
If Russ tears his ACL in training camp, we probably have a top 5 pick in 2021. If Russ gets hurt for, say, 2-4 games – Geno Smith could salvage a season by potentially going 1-1 or 2-2 for the Hawks – whereas the best a rookie could hope for would be 1-3. Over the long run, this team is going nowhere with Geno Smith – but for a month – they could win with him (longer and they’re still destined to pick in the top 10 in 2021).
They definitely could win with Geno over the course of a month particularly because they run the football so well.
“I don’t need to buy car insurance, I’m a safe driver!”
“I don’t need to buy life insurance, I’m in great shape!”
I don’t need life insurance. I’ve never died! Not even once!
Ergo, it can never happen. Boom, way more ham sandwiches are coming my way!
So, dcd2… can I get $10 of coverage for my fam? Do they do that..?
Probably not. Just like they don’t sell one skittle or popcorn bags with 3 kernels in them. What’s the point here?
There’s such thing as a minimum salary in the NFL. The difference between the UDFA minimum and the vet minimum is insignificant. The difference between a UDFA QB and a 7 year vet who knows our system is not.
Sometimes spending the extra dollar on the pack of Charmin Ultra Soft is better than buying the gas-station one-ply, even if you don’t think you’re going to need to take a dump.
#analogyWar
Bringing in Geno Smith is like paying $5000 for insurance on a Ferrari.
I’m ‘steering’ away from your agency, cha.
(See what I did there?)
I’m really not. The average going rate to insure a Ferrari is about $10,000 a year.
Geno (or another experienced QB) would give the team a better chance at winning. Period. If RW goes down for even a short period, an experienced QB could be the difference between scratching out a few playoff-qualifying wins and suffering a few playoff-elimination losses. Its really that simple. And earning a higher draft pick NEVER justifies losing.
There are actually a few instances in history where you’re totally wrong.
Your assuming an injury that cost him the year, what if its one or 2 games? The back up picking you up a win could be huge in the seeding for a playoff spot.
I was actually glad to see that had enough sense to do this. Gronk is going to be a shadow of himself, at least for awhile. I actually think the Gronk signing was kinda dumb, but this tells me they think so too! 🙂
Remember how extra great that Patriots offense was with both Gronk and Hernandez? Of course they want Howard back.
They have 3 decent TEs now, so each one can hurt the defense.
Smart move.
But will BA take advantage of that fact? He isn’t know for being very creative when it comes to TEs.
Brady pulling the trigger, they’ll use the TEs
They’ll have to. His deep ball arm strength is well below average.
I do think he’s going to mesh with what Brady wants. He likes those big guys to throw to (wouldn’t we all).
They’ll hang some points on fools, just need the defense to show-up and mesh .. then the BUCS will be very dangerous.
Geno is a good back-up. He holds a clipboard well. He is a definite upgrade over such legendary clipboard holder such as Charlie Whitehurst, Brett Hundley, Seneca Wallace or Austin Davis to name a few.
Finally, with no offseason or a very limited offseason, Anthony Gordon is a camp body with potential.
SeneCat was fun!
But he’ll never call the coin toss like the legendary coin flip QB Tarvaris Jackson (and I mean NO disrespect to the deceased).
OK, who took away the GM keys for JJ, the Caoboys actually are going in the right direction AND will be reloading adding more depth in 2021… Projected compensatory picks: One apiece in Rounds 3, 4, 5 and 6.
The Cowboys are the best drafting team in the league IMO. Lucky for the rest of the league Jerry has no clue how to hire a coach or manage a roster.
The key to all this is something you referred to earlier in the week Rob. Clowney has made $50 mil already as a #1 pick and take take as long as he wants to decide and try to get the deal he wants. He is not like most players coming off their rookie deal. He never had to play another snap and should be more than set for life.
Sucks as a Hawks fan but Clowney holds all the cards in the scenario. He gets the deal he wants or he waits. He is not going to rush because we want him to and given the reports questioning his passion and love of the game I could see him sitting out if he does not get the $ he wants.
This is a big reason JS got him so cheap in the trade last year. The Texans knew the guaranteed $ he wants and that a deal would be impossible so they decided to get something for him.
I personally don’t see anyway this ends with him as a Hawk but really hope I am wrong because we desperately need him.
The question anyone doubting his return to Seattle needs to ask is this…
Why is he going to end up anywhere else??
The best offer, via multiple reports, is from Seattle.
He’s not signed anywhere else. Hardly any other teams appear interested. It seems to only be Seattle and Tennessee.
The Seahawks remain, somewhat, in pole position. It’s just frustrating because who knows when he’ll decide to make a decision? But as the article highlights. They’re not doing anything else. They’re waiting too.
Sure seems like a pride thing at this point.
It’s some pride. It’s also about what he believes he is worth. And I get that. He can look at a guy like Trey Flowers and think… I am worth more than him. He can look at Frank Clark and Demarcus Lawrence and not unrealistically want parity.
And he isn’t getting it. So rather than simply accept that and sign a contract he isn’t happy with… he’s going to let this play out. And everyone’s saying he’s stupid and will lose millions. He probably doesn’t care. He has made over $50m in his career. To him, respect and a fair deal is probably worth money than a few more million. Or doing things his way instead of the teams’ way.
Again, I get that. And unfortunately the Seahawks are going to either have to increase their offer or do what they’re doing now — waiting him out.
“SHOW ME THE MONEYYYY”
or
Rod Tidwell: It means love, respect, community and the dollars too. The entire package! The Quan.
Can’t truly fault either side imo, but do you think the discrepancy is length or guarantees? I’d have no problem giving him a fatty 2 year deal w incentives, but this might be his last shot at his mega-deal.
The discrepancy is the amount offered. He wants to be paid in the Ford/Flower/Lawrence/Clark range and by all accounts it seems like nobody has offered that.
Well, my estimation of him has dropped.
But never mind. Let’s find a non-financial way of putting a salve on his hurt pride. Because I dong want to pay him north of 16 million a year.
Lets pretend Clowney finally settles for 17 mil per.
I would take
Everson Griffen at 7/8 mil per
Logan Ryan at 7/8 mil per
Snacks Damon Harrison at 3/4 mil per
Hoping for the low end at 17 mil and fills all 3 needs (DE,Slot CB, DT), over Clowney all day wouldn’t ya’ll?
Logan Ryan is holding out in the same way Clowney is because he wants more than $10m a year.
And we don’t know what Griffen wants.
As we discussed above, it’s not like it’s a choice between a player for X amount of dollars vs. an empty roster spot that will take up $0. Everyone on the roster gets paid and even the cheapest are going to make about a half million per year. Those add up even if you don’t want each roster spot to.
I believe Griffen is looking for 10M/year roughly. Age is the only legit knock, his production is still top tier. He actually deserves (10M) it, he has been productive as a pass rusher.
Clowney is a game wrecker / game changer…. none of the other guys offer that, even at reduced prices. You can have 1 purple chip guy or 2 blue chip guys…. take the Purple, they are HoFers / generational talents.
I so want to see what Clowney can do when he has a proper DL around him for 16 games. He could really produce as a pass rusher…. that is what the biggest shame is in this whole deal. I can see the DL returning to glory of 2013 era with the combo of guys they have right now.
NOTE: I also believe Snacks has retired, for good, from the NFL.
If Clowney is a hall of famer he better pick it up, because he has not played like one so far in his career. He has flashed the ability to for sure, but no way has he played like a hall of famer consistently.
This.
You simply cannot be a HoF candidate when you get 3 sacks a season on a strong top second tier team.
Is that optics? Yeah maybe, but optics helps get you into the HoF too.
This appears to be down to 4 teams. The Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Tennessee Titans, and Seattle Seahawks. It will be interesting to see where Clowney ends up. He reportedly will consider a short-term deal according to ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler.
I think it’s down to two. Seattle and Tennessee. With Seattle offering more.
I’ve been pounding that patience drum, but how long can you reasonably let this drag
How long did they wait last year before trading for Clowney or signing Ziggy?
While ever the offer players remain available.
Colts are a complete Darkhorse, but they have a ton of talent and are going to be top 4 in AFC, easier to get to SB than BFC which is stacked. That being said, with no NFL on the horizon, the Seahawks and Clowney can bide their time… no reason to rush it now….
I don’t see the Browns as true contenders, so I eliminate them.
Titans are probably right there with Colts as SB contenders.
Seahawks are not as likely to get to SB as the rest, since hard NFC, but they are not far off. Especially, if the season is truncated and they get hot in the second half of season like they tend to do…. they could roll into playoffs hot.
The Colts have never shown any interest.
The Browns’ reported interest was always overblown.
The Seahawks have made the best offer. It seems the Titans have made an offer of sorts. That seems about it.
Way off topic, but I love a quarterback wearing the #10 jersey. It screams ‘playmaker’ to me.
The “early” Eli Manning for sure, not so much for his last few years though!
Ha! Age and geography show up in how your brain processes this question. My first thought was Jim Zorn 🙂
*cough* Dan McGwire
It really just sunk in that the Seahawks for sure didn’t draft
Jonathan Taylor. It was some club called the Indiana Polis Colts.
What an absolute shame.
PCJS definitely made some heads explode though.
(Maybe mine a lil too)
trolling
In fishing:
The method of dragging or trailing a fishing-line and hook behind a boat, at or near the surface of the water
If you’ve ever seen the film First Blood then you might recall where Rambo had Teasle dead to rights in the woods of the Cascade mountains. His not so subtle advice, “Let it go. Let it… go.”
That eventually became the basis for the most famous song on the Frozen soundtrack.
Wow you were way ahead of me!!
See below
I never used to hate UW + Wazzu
until I started living around their fans🤢🤢
Kings of the North💛💚 🦆
I don’t hate Wazzu. Tis’ a jolly, silly place.
As for Husky fans, we are a bitter bunch. I accept that.
👿 stop making it obvious that I was lying
Rob, first of all, thank you so much, especially in these times, for giving us this amazing place.
I was worried a little for the SDB low season, but you already took that worry away.
My question:
With the Giants putting the UFA tender on Marcus Golden his price should have come down a bit. Nobody that is primed to get compensatory picks will probably touch him.
Is he any good and, specifically, could he be a scheme fit for the Hawks?
He’s undersized with short arms and they have enough players of his type by now. They need a dynamic, game-wrecking 5T. That’s Clowney. And that’s why they’re clearly waiting this out.
Clowney is gone. They even gave away his number.
Worse, we will not even get any draft comp for him. What a fail by a front office that just continues to fail.
WOW!
I guess Russell was GOAT as right since 2012, right.
He gave us 7 10 win seasons all on his own.
Hopefully we don’t loose him in a trade, as PCJS almost certainly are planning to do.
No, Jim. We’ve been over this. A player doesn’t sign or not because of a number. That is ridiculous.
Reed has rightly claimed his old number back because he’s signed and Clowney isn’t. All this tells us is a deal isn’t close, which we already knew. The fact they aren’t signing anyone else when they can do is a pretty clear indication that they’re waiting Clowney out.
I mean, I look on other sites and twitter and read all this ‘Clowney is gone’ stuff. So why haven’t they signed Everson Griffen? Or Geno Smith? Or a running back or receiver or nickel?
It’s obvious. Because they need to keep their cap space intact for Clowney first and foremost.
I don’t think this is true. I think it may very well mean they are waiting for Clowney to sign, but not necessarily to sign Clowney. For instance, say they want Griffen but Griffen is asking for too much, once Clowney signs, that’s much less leverage that Griffen has and they can sign him at a lower rate.
As for Geno Smith, I am not as sold as you are that they want him back. A lot happens behind the scenes, and we didn’t find out that Harvin was punching teammates until after he was gone, and Geno has a history of such behavior. And they may feel they are fine at RB and WR with what they have– especially since I think they will want to keep an extra TE this year.
Now, you could be right. But your reasoning is not as solid as you are making out here. This front office doesn’t behave rationally at time– at least from an outside perspective. Look at all their first round picks as an example.
You’re trying too hard to disagree.
“Everything you say is right but… maybe it’s Everson Griffen who they want and he’s asking for too much.”
Or maybe it’s not eh, Jim? Maybe it’s as obvious as it seems. That the guy they publicly called a ‘huge priority’ at the combine is still a massive unsigned huge priority. And they’re waiting him out.
As for Geno Smith — it doesn’t have to be him. But if you’re suggesting they’re going to go into next season with an undrafted free agent rookie as the sole unchallenged backup, during a coronavirus impacted off-season, you’re wronger than Ken Wrong of Wrongsville, Wrongachusetts.
And my reasoning is 100% solid. Even if I end up being wrong.
Now, why would I *try* to disagree? If I agreed with you, I would agree with you. I do very often. In fact, most times. But here I don’t. So unless you’re calling me a liar…
Your reasoning is not “obvious.” It’s not even likely, to be honest. I’ve been watching this front office for as long as you and I know when things have gone south with a player. They start talking about the situation and the player differently. It goes from super-positive, almost sickeningly so, to muted positive, to muted pessimistic. (It almost never gets to hostile.) It goes from “We would *love* to have Clowney back” to “Well, if something works out, great,” to “we never close the door on anything” and “”if something makes sense, we might…” When John Schneider says they will have him back if “something makes sense,” then they believe having him back right now “doesn’t make sense.” That is not the language of people who are hoping to hammer out some rougher details. That’s JS/PC-speak for “it’s going to take a small miracle to ever see this guy in a Seahawks uniform again.”
Despite needs all over the team, in every position group just about, they took two defensive lineman and a LB they think will help with the pass rush. They spent a ton in free agency, They gave away the guy’s number. They need money for the DT they absolutely must add and, you’re right, the QB they will add. (I just don’t think it has to be Smith, but it will be someone. There are a lot of arms out there right now and will be come the end of the quarantine. If they wanted Smith, they would have already signed him. After all, they, unlike other teams, know him. I think the Hawks want real face-time and a medical look-see before signing a possible backup QB. This is more, not less important during the shortened offseason, seeing if, to throw a name out there, a Trevor Siemian might work here.) After all, if your idea is that they’re hoarding that Geno money for a Clowney signing, what will they do if they resign Clowney? Clearly they must have a backup plan.
Meanwhile, Clowney was willing to wait until whenever to sign– when there’s a pandemic out there killing people no less– and risk losing all that guaranteed money. That’s angry and it’s not because they’re a million or two apart in vision. Clowney also knows, as does this front office, that by not signing elsewhere past the date, he’s costing the Hawks a probable 3rd round comp pick,and that’s hardly “protecting the team,” is it?
These are two parties angry at each other. Clowney feels disrespected because he played through injury last year, which might have hurt his free agency value, and the Hawks feel the player is being unreasonable and simply cannot match his demands based on production.
Maybe things break in a strange way and Clowney returns–life is funny that way– but this is not the *obvious* position. It’s in fact the less obvious, minority position. And even Ken Wrong of Wrongsville can see that.
TLDR
No, I didn’t call you a liar. I said you’re trying too hard to disagree.
And my reasoning is still perfectly plausible.
Well, I’ll say this, Rob. Your *conclusion* is perfectly plausible. In that, Clowney may indeed return. And in this I hope you’re right. Anyway, as you know, I love your blog. And I almost always agree with you. In fact, I agreed with you before the draft. You were right then about their performance during this offseason. it has been something far less than stellar. And that continues to be the case.
Bit=not.
What do you think, was there more than one offer from Seahawks to Clowney and when was the last one?
This last tweet from Garofolo confused me…ok he said we offered him nice price, but when…is that the one from the tampering period or something sooner…
Don’t know.
I suspect there has been some back and forth but whatever their best offer is clearly isn’t what Clowney had in mind.
I think the FO lost the offseason and lost the negotiation with Clowney.
Reasons:
1, Passrush was priority.
Do we think a best case scenario Clowney – Reed – Poona/Collier – Taylor/Green/Irvin/Mayowa/Collier looks much better than Clowney – Reed/Woods – Poona/Woods – Ansah/Green/Collier?
Somewhat better, sure, but at the start of the season we thought Ansah will be much better. Maybe it’s the same case with Mayowa/Irvin too. They wouldn’t fix the passrush even with Clowney re-signed. They might patch up somewhat, but didn’t fix it. And if Clowney and maybe even Griffen would sign with someone else, it might be even a worse line
2, Clowney is their Plan A. They’re Clowney’s Plan B
If Clowney would prioritize playing here instead of max value he’d already signed an OK contract. Clowney knows they want him and willing to wait for him. He can wait and see maybe some other teams will be willing to pay more or give him a better contract or position to win SB or pad statistics (and land a better contract after a short one). Hawks are in inferior position. Clowney lost the contract negotiations league-wide, but he won against the Hawks. He can dictate when and what happens. If Griffen signes elsewhere and Clowney too after him then yeah…it seems pretty bad.
Would a really ballsy, aggressive FO let this happen? I doubt. Would Belichik for example let Clowney dictate? Nope, I doubt it. Even if Clowney signs for 13m 1 year right before the year starts, I’d put it in the FO lost this negotiation as they didn’t dictate the terms column.
And to be honest I’d be happier with a solution sooner. I don’t care if it’s Griffen or Clowney. Waiting game is fine when they’re stacked. If they’d have Avril/Bennett, Reed, Hamilton/Raekwon, Campbell, Taylor, Uche/Zuniga, Green and Collier on the roster that is a nice DL. They can wait to see if they can land another disruptive guy for the rotation. If Clowney signs then great, strong rotation with talented vets and younger guys…if not then what? That line is still brutal.
Unless some major surprise trade would happen, I don’t think they addressed the issues, and I don’t think this was a successful offseason
You make some very valid points! Clearly PC/JS have not done enough to fix the pass rush, which was a stated goal and obvious need heading into this offseason. If they can somehow secure Clowney, at least the pass rush shouldn’t be any worse. Guys like Mayowa and Irvin aren’t superstars, but they should prove to be more effective than last year’s version of Ziggy Ansah. We should be able to expect some improvement from Green and Collier as well. The two rookies probably won’t contribute a ton in their first year.
It’s also true Clowney is in the driver’s seat right now, and the Hawks have little choice but to wait him out. I’m sure they are playing it smart and trying to keep in communication with him, and letting him know how much they value him and want him back.
I think it’s still an incomplete offseason, not necessarily unsuccessful though. We have no idea how good any of the rookies will be, and who knows if they are still able to land another key player (whether it’s Clowney, Griffen, or someone else). Perhaps they have upgraded the OL, the secondary, and the receiver group. We need to see how it all plays out still.
Wholeheartedly disagree, as I usually do with your comments Dani. Even being pessimistic, you cant honestly believe that “Avril/Bennett, Reed, Hamilton/Raekwon, Campbell, Taylor, Uche/Zuniga, Green and Collier” is a realistic expectation for the team. That is a downright silly comment. That’s like saying “they failed the offseason because they didn’t end up adding Ray Lewis, Chase Young, and Khalil Mack.” Avril is retired, silly for you to mention him as an option. Bennet is old and washed up, ridiculous to expect him. If they wanted Hamilton or Raekwon they could have drafted. Campbell was never an option I bet. We got Taylor, and why get another draft pick, would that really be the make or break, my guess its because you liked Uche/Zuniga, not because they would actually be difference makers. So this comment is silly by you.
Second, if Clowney signs, regardless of the money, then I think the front office won the offseason. As Rob has made clear and hammered home, Clowney (and griffen fo that matter) is simply biding his time, because he has that option, his plan A isn’t the Hawks or anyone, his Plan A is to get the most money he can. He is sticking to Plan A. Hawks are similarly sticking to their plan A, which is to sign CLowney for their price. Both are reasonable, and neither are wrong. Would we as FANS like it to end? Heck ya, but we are only FANS. This kind of dance is what makes sports fun. Maybe not for the average twitter fan, but for those like Rob and us who are on this blog, who appreciate the process and business aspect of the game.
And your comment “Would a really ballsy, aggressive FO let this happen?” So you mean one like the Jets organization that over pay for their players? That kind of “ballsy”? Because BB sure as heck wouldn’t over pay. Otherwise, what do you think has happened? We have called CLowney’s bluff, and now are in a waiting game. He hasn’t played us. Realistically, who else was available to grab? As Rob has mentioned, very few were available this offseason, and the few were not game wreckers like Clowney could be.
I for one have loved their moves this offseason. Do wish we would have drafted some guys I liked? HEck ya, I loved Jonathan Taylor, Claypool, Hamilton, Amik, and others. But I understand the picks they made, and applaud the decision. Because they are the decision makers, and the game as an industry isn’t as cut and dry as you would make it seem.
Honestly, I have heard this and similar arguments about Clowney, it’s become very tired. I believe Rob correctly refutes the Clowney position, as he did just a thread or so above, far more often than anyone should have to. But it appears necessary I suppose.
JS never will, but I wish the Seahawks would produce something like this:
With The Next Pick: FULL SERIES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDdmDyRht-M
I hope for them to be on All or Nothing.
Thanks for posting that. Impressive team and process they have. It would be outrageous to get something like that for the Seahawks.
That was really good.
They were jacked to draft Okereke. Guess we didn’t exactly steal Barton from under their noses.
I really liked Okereke during the pre-draft process too..
I know this is nothing even close to running and cutting, but it would seem like with this progress he could be ready for the season, especially if it gets pushed back a bit.
https://twitter.com/pennyhendrixx/status/1255595128447660032
The injuries are a huge question mark, but despite not adding one of the top backs this year are RB depth is in great shape with a healthy Carson and Penny, plus Dallas looks like a better 3rd option than what the had last year. It’s a young mans position so I wouldn’t be against going into the new year with those three and Homer rather than signing a vet (so long as all 4 are healthy week 1).
As an Exercise Physiologist that works with athletes coming back from injury, I will tell you this is one step up from walking without aid. Its minimal range of motion, no load/weight transfer, and no explosion. Yes it is good to see the speed and fluidity of movement, but its about what I would expect at this point in his rehab.
I don’t know what the NFL protocols are for something like this, nor do I know if he has actually progressed further than this video shows (I doubt it) but I would bet he is still 6 months from full clearance to play. Load transfer is a HUGE part of coming back from these injuries. Too soon and it could set him back months. You have to “let the glue dry” as it were before you even attempt it, then there is building back up to strength. NFL has access to far more advanced stuff than I do though, so he could very well be back in time. Average joe? highly doubtful.
With is I jury happening so late in the season I could see him going to the PUP missing the first 6 games. If the season started late he would for sure benefit from it. Regardless I could still seem them signing a vet to push the Dallas and th o get experience if Carson goes down.
I really think with the extent of that injury the best play for fans is to assume that PUP and 6 weeks lost and he comes back “close to normal” are the optimal scenario.
This optimism that he’s going to be ready Week One is way too sunny for my taste.
They’ll sign a veteran RB, develop Deejay and Homer some more and probably count on Penny for the playoffs, and to take the lead role in 2021.
Good info Georgia. Thanks for chiming in with that.
Great insight. Thank you.
Has there been anything like this out there about Dissly and his progress? I would suspect he might be a little further along than Penny, but realistically both are probably going to start on the PUP.
There are 3 things I love about it.
1. He seems to be happy with the progress otherwise he wouldn’t share it.
2. He seems to work out and tries to get back asap. This makes me happy because I was questioning his work ethic before. He looked out of shape in his first season but now seems to take everything more serious.
3. The support he gets from his teammates on Twitter. Cool to see that the team supports eachother. I always liked that our Runningback room was so tight besides being competitors.
https://overthecap.com/2021-compensatory-draft-picks-update-4-29-2020/
Wow, Dallas with 4 projected comp picks. Good for them.
LOL at seeing Jameis Winston at the bottom of that list with a strikeout font.
Don’t forget NE getting a 3rd and two 4th round comps.
Still i could’ve cared less about our comps if we had fixed our pass rush.
I was expecting an aggressive offseason and 0 comp picks to start free-agency.
So if we still atleast get Clowney back and sign a quality DT I’m totally fine with 0 comp picks.
Could the supplemental draft have a huge increase of players this year? Players who decided it might be best to stay for their senior year in January might be thinking better of it with the uncertain situation of when/if the college football season is gonna be played this year.
Doubt it
A little more about brooks beyond Bucky Brooks saying CIN was about to pick him at 33:
“One NFL source told ESPN that he heard after the fact from at least five teams that said Brooks — not Oklahoma’s Kenneth Murray or LSU’s Patrick Queen — was their top-rated linebacker. The same source said multiple teams believe the Ravens, who took Queen at No. 28 with Murray off the board, would have taken Brooks had Seattle not chosen him one pick before. At least one team said it wanted to trade up into the bottom of the first round for Brooks, according to the source.”
Sounds less of reach and more of late 1st rounder…
So I think we’re all assuming they’ll sign an Al Woods / Ahtyba Rubin type vet DT at some point like they always do. What are the options out there right now?
I know Snacks gets mentioned a lot, but he’ll likely be more expensive and he wasn’t all that good last year. What are some other run stuffers who’d sign for $1-2m/year out there?
Didn’t someone mention that Snacks retired? IDK!
John Lynch (drafting for his division) on picking DT Javon Kinlaw:
“Playing Seattle with those huge guards, guys get worn down. We needed a little more beef.”
Lynch has turned out to be a smart Front Office here for them.
He’s been nothing short of great. They’d have a World title if they had better QB play. He sh** the bed in the biggest game of his career. Rough.
I haven’t been as impressed. You can’t blame losing a SB on his QB without knowing that he is the GM who acquired that player. That makes no sense. He’s definitely had his share of first round busts and miscalculations, too. And a circus monkey could have drafted Joey Bosa. His roster was so bad before Bosa – they finished as the second worst team in the NFL in 2018 without that QB who supposedly is the reason he didn’t win a SB. I think he’s an above average GM – I just don’t think he’s a Godlike figure that many others do.
Let’s also note that Kyle Shanahan is running the show in San Fran.
I’ve been totally impressed by John Lynch and Mike Mayock as GMs so far.
Just like AZ drafting Leki Fotu & Rashard Lawrence. Also drafting based on run defense and interior pressure. Both needed if NFC West.
Love AZ draft. They’re definitely building a good young defense. Our division will be even tougher this year.
Clowney better sign a 1 year prove it deal. the more he waits the more he loses. This late in to FA no team will have the flexibility to give $20 APY deals. Clowney is not definitely signing a 90-100m deal even if he is allowed to visit teams now, the best he would have got is 50-60m anyways. Bite the bullet with the team with best chance and move on.
Just the opposite.
The longer this drags on, fewer teams will be able to offer a 1-year deal. There will always be a number of teams that can structure a long term deal (2 or more years).
Seahawks are still in a position to do either.
Teams can structure 2-3 years with a lower number which Clowney is not ready to accept. No one is giving him 4-5 years deal with out proving him self..
Not sure what you mean.
Teams/players can structure long-term contracts however they want.
(Oh, boy. That was meant as reply to Pran.)
Was Schneider on 710 this morning? If so does anyone have a link?
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/category/podcast_player/?a=ffd22f0f-f4db-4833-8314-abad011c5eb6&sid=1182&n=Danny+and+Gallant
Thank you sir.
All the best front offices had dogs on their feed…
https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1255633209192218628
Garofolo:
Mike: “No communication of late between Clowney and the Seahawks.”
On Everson Griffen: “there has been communication.”
#Seahawks
Source?
The one he said.
LOL. But do you really trust Janeane Garofalo?
Per Pauline:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/pauline-mailbag-jets-jadeveon-clowney-nfl-draft/
Here we go again, negotiating in the press episode IX….
If this statement is true, then so much for Clowney’s original verbiage about “not wanting to play for a sorry a$$ team”. Would definitely be proof he was always only about the money, and that he’d play for the Bungles or the Toronto CFL team if they paid him what he’s asking for.
It’s a tactical leak counter-move to the Seahawks’ reply to being asked about Clowney after the draft, and Garafolo saying ‘the Seahawks final offer was very strong.’
Just cant see him as a Jet. They arent close to winning so it doesnt make sense for either party.
But I can see him valuing himself highly enough where he might accept an offer from the Jets if it met is valuation target just to make the point clear about his value. However, even if the Jets offer more, the Hawks might match and then JC would get the best of both worlds.
😂🤣
https://twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1255893560362221568
That was good, loved Wentz.
Shoulda ran in circles for Russ
I keep coming back to Pete’s last interview of the year or somewhere around that time that he talked about scheme change and whatnot. I almost wonder if the drafting of Jordan Brooks may be a sign that we could see a more 3-4/ 4-3 defense based on match-up. as much vanilla that Pete runs there have been occasions where they have morphed week in week out. Now they are in a position that gives them tremendous flexibility to accomplish that(if it is in fact what they’re trying to do). I do agree that signing clowney is still a huge priority with the team i think the draft points to the fact that they cant be the same ol’ thing that we are used to seeing. Especially with the speed the NFC west will have this year on offense.
Other than Bruce, none of the linebackers they have are 3-4 edge rushers.
I don’t know why people keep suggesting this.
Rob has spoken to this question previously. Might want to go back and find it.
There are two things that will never change.
The Earth orbiting the sun.
And Pete Carroll’s defensive philosophy and formation.
Here comes the big pass rush signing. mOrE saCKs THaN cLowNEy lAsT sEASoN.. 😜
Good one.
Just saw that one. The Dolphines just signed and drafted a bunch of DE’s. Wonder if it might be worth a flyer?
He has a very similar physical profile to Dion Jordan.
Fits the Seahawks Profile
6’6 280
341/4″ arms
40 Yard Dash: 4.92 SEC
Bench Press: 25 REPS
Vertical Jump: 33.0 INCH
Broad Jump: 116.0 INCH
3 Cone Drill: 7.17 SEC
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.39 SEC
Very Possible the take flyer
That was in 10 games with 5 starts. Add 2 forced fumbles and 5 qb hits and it seems silly not to at least kick the toes.
Tires, not the toes. He needs his toes
Yeah, probably not a good idea to kick his toes.
Taco Tuesday!
unfortunately the NFL doesn’t play games on Tuesday 🙂
Damien Lewis gets the call from JS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RTRwimC7ew
Dallas, Parkinson, and Robinson are all there too on the channel. Not quite the Stephen Sullivan reaction from any of them, though.
Quotes per Breer:
Multiple liked Kenneth Murray to the Chargers and CEH to the Chiefs.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/30/nfl-personnel-draft-best-worst-justin-herbert
How hard is it to ask John Schneider…
“Is it still possible to sign Jadeveon Clowney?”
And have a ready made follow up for the inevitable straight-batted reply.
So ask it! (kidding, but I hear ya)
Charlton is not a player I have followed closely since he entered the league. What would his skill-set add to the Hawk’s D-line tool kit; ie; how’s the fit being as the physical profile looks not bad? To what extent would such a move excite folks out there?
Could a Charlton/Griffin pick up be a thing? Still hoping Clowney and the Hawks find their ‘meeting of the minds’ moment soon, but frustrated as anybody about the way it’s dragging on.
I suspect the only way Griffen ends up in Seattle is if the Clowney door slams shut (and he signs somewhere else).
I wouldn’t think Charlton is a starter.
My bet is that signing Taco is a non-starter. Be it on a Tuesday or not.
What if Clowney trips over his dog and ruptures his achilles tendon tonight?
Next . .