The Seahawks lost the coin toss with Kansas City today, meaning they will pick 12th overall in the 2012 draft. Miami were victorious in the other coin toss, meaning they will pick 8th and Carolina 9th. This was of only minor significance – the Seahawks and Chiefs are not directly competing for the same players, at least that’s the impression I have. Kansas City needs to bolster their offensive line and could take a serious look at Stanford’s David DeCastro or Jonathan Martin. Seattle is zoned into the pass rushers and it’s one area the Chiefs have some real quality with Tamba Hali.
Miami and Buffalo will have the biggest impact on Seattle’s decision at #12. The Dolphins willconsider offensive lineman and could end up being a bit of a wildcard, but are also in the market to improve their pass rush. Buffalo’s greatest need is to find a pure edge rusher for their new 4-3 defense, although a premium left tackle would also be a smart addition. Don’t expect the Seahawksto jump up to the #6 or #7 spot to usurp both teams, so their fate really is in the lap of the gods. Unless we see a big riser in the next two months, Seattle will be picking out of the pass-rushing scraps left by Miami and Buffalo, with the usual suspects involved (Upshaw, Ingram, Coples…).
Kansas City does put an obstacle in the way for any fan hoping Trent Richardson could fall to the Seahawks, but it was never likely that a player of such quality would drop out of the top ten. If the Seahawks are willing to draft Richardson at #12 with Marshawn Lynch re-signed or tagged, rest assured that Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Miami and Buffalo would be going through a similar thought process. I’ll be very surprised if he’s drafted below the same range as Adrian Peterson (#7 overall pre-rookie pay scale).
Really, there’s no major secret to Seattle’s thought process. They’ve been pretty candid about their desire to improve the pass rush and more and more people are buying into the fact this team isn’t going to find a quarterback solution in round one. Although the Seahawks won’t be big spenders in free agency, they could make some calculated moves to set up the draft board in April. Yet there’s a clear focus as to what area they’d most like to solve in the draft with a high-impact draft pick.
Monday’s combine work-outs are the ones to watch for Seahawks fans. The defensive lineman and linebackers will perform with at least one future ‘Hawk on show.
Combine day two links
Seahawks Head Coach Pete Carroll conducted a press-conference at the combine today. Carroll: “We’re working on evaluations, that’s all underway. This is a huge step for us in the week that we spend here and preparation for what follows.”
Aron Angel reports that Justin Blackmon won’t run the forty-yard dash at the combine, despite confidently announcing recently he’d complete all drills. Blackmon: “I was actually planning to run the day before I got here, but I listened to the people that are thinking of the best interests of me and decided not to.”
Michael Lombardi has a stark warning about what he describes as ‘lying season’. “Teams send out mixed signals to agents of players about to hit the market. Agents, in return, claim their player is the hottest free agent available and that multiple teams are interested. This is poker season in the NFL and the smart executives who can read a bluff always will prevail.”
Greg Bedard says he’d be surprised if the Seahawks show any interest in Matt Flynn. Seattle has little or no interest there, despite reports to the contrary. Bedard covered the Packers when Schneider worked closely with Ted Thompson, so this is another strong voice to those making it clear Flynn won’t be the answer. I’d guess his likely destination is Miami or Oakland.
Gil Brandt has an updated ‘hot-100’ list for the combine. Brandt ranks Ryan Tannehill at #7 overall, which goes to show a top-10 projection isn’t beyond the realms of possibility. Personally, I wouldn’t draft him even at the top of round two – but like Jake Locker in 2011 – Tannehill will divide opinion and could go earlier than people think.
Dan Kadar reports that Trent Richardson is unhappy about the way the running back position is becoming devalued. “It bothers me a lot because we’re getting pounded on every down and when it comes down to it, to be successful, you really just have to have a mindset that I know I’m not going in the first round, but I hope I go in the first round.”
Rob Rang has the bench press totals for the offensive lineman and tight ends. David DeCastro had the most among lineman (34) but Georgia’s tight end Orson Charles tops the list (35).
Rang also reports that Brock Osweiler will not throw at the combine. He joins Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Ryan Tannehill in deciding not to throw. For me, Osweiler is the clear #3 quarterback in this class and I don’t see the benefit of him throwing in Indianapolis. His quirky mechanics and unorthodox style will always look better on tape than throwing to thin air in shorts.
Walter Cherepinsky lists the quarterback measurements. There are no issues with Robert Griffin III’s height as he measured well above 6-2. Ryan Tannehill’s nine-inch hands are a slight concern given his size – no quarterback had smaller hands. Despite giving up two inches in height, Austin Davis was only 2lbs lighter and had much bigger hands at 10 3/8 inches. Only Nick Foles had bigger hands than Davis. Kellen Moore measured 6-0, 197lbs with 9.5 inch hands.
I posted this at the same time. I deleted mine, but a few points I covered that I’d lack to add here:
KC and Seattle aren’t looking at the same players in round 1 (except maybe Richardson), but that doesn’t mean the Seahawks are out of the woods. KC’s needs are believed to be Guard/Center, complimentary RB, and an “early round” quarterback. You don’t normally see teams draft an interior lineman or #2 RB at 11th overall, and there really isn’t a QB in this draft that will be available at #11 who justifies the pick. That makes KC a very strong candidate to trade down, potentially on a buyers deal. That would enable teams to move up right in front of the Seahawks, potentially teams with needs at pass rush.
After #11/#12, losing the coinflip favors Seattle considerably though. Like KC, Seattle is also very likely to be looking at RB/QB in the rounds 2-4 range, so picking 1 spot ahead of KC in the 2nd and 4th could be a significant advantage.
I’m listening to the Pete Carroll combine presser right now, he had some pretty interesting comments about Mark Sanchez. His comments were extremely positive in nature regarding Sanchez, and even said that they are still in touch…. he said that Sanchez decision to leave USC early “didn’t put any problems into our relationship,” even joking that it “was really all for show for you guys… it was all an act.”
He could be lying, but I doubt it. Pete is known for being very frank and honest about far more important things like what areas the Seahawks will emphasize in the draft.
Oakland for Flynn, eh. Man, Palmer rumors and intrigue are the bane of this site. I would think Cleveland would want to work with Flynn and keep there two picks. That said, if GB is dumb enough to franchise Flynn, he not going anywhere, and Cleveland will pay the price for RGIII.
Palmer, if it indeed goes down, will be the undoing of the JS/PC regime. How Palmer is more of an interest than a broken down Manning is mind-boggling. At least Manning has a chance to be great. Palmer never has been. I wonder who will be the new coach in 2014.
I’ve just conducted a completely pointless exercise (but quite interesting nonetheless) where I used Walterfootball’s latest 4 round draft to mock the Seahawks’ first 4 rounds. (In the first 2 rounds I haven’t listed alternatives because this is my ideal scenario if it played out).
My decisions were as follows:
1. Courtney Upshaw
2. Brock Osweiler
3. Dwight Jones (also available: Sean Spence, Jared Crick, RBs Pead, Pierce, Polk and James)
4. Bruce Irvin (also available: Marvin Jones, Audie Cole, Josh Kaddu, Donte Paige-Moss)
This would be an epic draft in my mind, with the remaining picks being spent on RB and DB or DT.
As I say, a completely pointless exercise as, like most all mocks, Walter certainly has limitations, but based on what I’ve seen on this blog over the past couple of years, getting these 4 players would make me incredibly happy.
Michael (CLT) – What Palmer rumors? There is nothing in this post that links Seattle to Palmer, just Oakland (whose new GM worked in Green Bay for nearly 20 years and has no picks to shape the team his way) and Flynn. No need to be so negative.
Indeed, I don’t understand the constant negativity…but that’s OK, I just skip his comments.
Hawkspur, that would be epic in my mind as well. I think you laid out my fantasy Seahawks draft perfectly. Seems unlikely picks 2/3/4 will fall to those rounds, but awesome if it happened that way. You never know, and that’s why draft season is so fun.
I expect to see more draft day trades than usual since rookies cost a lot less now.
The only reason Rob and I have brought up Palmer/Sanchez is because we know something is coming, we just don’t know what. So we’re looking into the most logical possibilities. Palmer isn’t what he used to be, but he’s a very logical possibility for a ton of reasons. That’s all it is though. No assertions, no rumors. Just a possibility.
I agree with the feedback. I am too negative on this blog. I will do my best to refrain.
Personally, I see Tannehill has something most writers here do not. I see risk and roster building differently than most on this blog. It comes off as unappreciative.
I, absentmindedly, or in plain stupidity, see my comments as constructive and challenging. If there are deemed negative, they are selling emotion, and not constructive input. thus, they are not of value. I can see how they can be construed as negative, in that the delivery is quite authoritarian.
I yearn for a team that is not predictable and safe. Perhaps it is best I keep that to myself.
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
Michael (CLT),
Personally I don’t seem to classify you as that much of a negative Nelly as others. Just state your opinions respectfully, as it appears to me you do, and people will like them or they wont. Either way don’t sweat it and keep posting as the feedback on all the articles is yet another reason I am a daily visitor to the blog. Opinions are like bungholes… everyone has them and they all smell rank to someone… 🙂
Damn hawkspur u just laid out a dream mock! And other opinions are good for the blog I think its 1 of the reasons this blog is so great and not boring. And why is every qb choosing not to throw? I think that’s chicken shit in a way! Who cares what ur agents say if u wanna prove your worth and show everyone what you got why be scared? And if u slip up a bit and make a few bad throws @ least you competed and showed your not scared to fail @ times.
FWIW, I’m a fan of Tannehill, I just haven’t talked him up much because it seems unlikely Seattle will be able to draft him in the range they’d be comfortable doing so.
It seems like the trend is toward more and more attendees opting out of various parts of the Combine (QBs not throwing, WRs not running, etc). If that trend continues unabated, the Combine will lose a lot of its usefulness and cachet. Perhaps the NFL should consider requiring all attendees to participate in full, with exceptions only for valid medical reasons? Otherwise you can’t attend.
What would be upsetting come draft day is if someone does jump in front of us for the edge rush. If the elite edge rush is all gone and Richardson is gone, there is no way I see us being able to trade back. If they are there I don’t think we should trade back. This would be quite the problem as it does not seem that there is much quality for the #12 pick without someone falling somehow. #11 would have been so much more comfortable.
Jonathan, I think you are right, If you are going to participate as a QB you should have to throw. that is what you are being hired to do. They will figure it out some time.
Jon,
There is value at every part of round one. Who is really to say that Upshaw or Ingram will be any better than a late first rounder or even a second rounder? Both Branch and Curry had a ton of tackles on their teams this year. Mercilus may be the best of any of them if he is properly coached. So much depends on them learning how to play in the pros and being injury free. Yes I want Upshaw, but there are others that may play just as well over the long haul.
Heck our second string offensive line stepped up last year – and I would have bet that they couldn’t stop San Franciscos defense, but they held their own.
I am coming around to the idea of taking Osweiler in the second if available. Heck why not? We should pick at least one project QB a year until we find the right one. I figure we can trade him next year if we don’t like him.
The reason I see this coin flip as significant (or at least worthy of interest) is not looking up but looking down. I think it’s conceivable KC are in the market for a OT. That’s a premium position, and I could see a situation where Kalil and Reiff (for example) are off the board in the Top 10. If the Seahawks were drafting 11 that could net us some offers to trade down out of that spot so a team like the Chargers (again, for example) could jump ahead of KC and secure the last quality OT (Martin in my scenario).
“Perhaps the NFL should consider requiring all attendees to participate in full, with exceptions only for valid medical reasons? Otherwise you can’t attend.”
^that would be awesome^, but would never happen. Too much agent-player influence and players would just boycott the combine and hold private workouts along with their pro-days, devaluing the money-making machine that the NFL is turning the combine into.
I really wish all the QBs would throw and it irks me that they don’t, as we usually only get glimpses of any other workouts where QBs air it out via scripted throwing session. The thing is, and I do understand it, that QBs don’t want to be made to look bad due to poor timing and cohesiveness because of unfamiliarity with their combine receivers who they have spent zero time with. But, here’s the thing: why not, as athletes and agents give us credit – the public,the media, the coaches and front-office staffs to understand the situation and also bear in mind that they’ll again throw to ‘their guys’ at their Pro Days?
Now, I can also understand that a poor session in front of millions on TV could possibly sway perceptions and perhaps ultimately cost prospects (and their agents) a ton of cash, but I think that’s pretty ridiculous. I mean, we know QBs throw to nobodies/unfamiliar players at the combine. We also know that the combine drills are only a fraction of the overall evaluation process. Is there really THAT MUCH to lose by slinging the ball around a little bit? Ok, now I’m getting mad again.
Kip/Rob
Have either of you heard the rumor that has the Hawks swapping #12 for the Packers #28, and also ending up with Matt Flynn (theres probably a little more to it than that). Hypothetically, if that were to happen, any guesses as to what the Hawks would do with #28, since that would take us out of the running for pretty much all the guys listed in previous mocks? Would you be supportive of such a trade? I read that rumor in the comments section of a Luke Kuechly article on ESPN. Apparently the Pack is very interested in Kuechly.
I may have missed it, but I don’t see many posts about using free agency to fill our edge pass rushing needs. Detroit looks to be in a bit of a bind trying to re-sign both Calvin Johnson and Cliff Avril and still stay under the cap. With 11 sacks last year plus 6 forced fumbles, at age 25 Avril looks like he would be a real pick up. (All this assumes that Detroit can’t get a deal done for him, or doesn’t tag him. But, it bears close examination.)
If we did fill our pass rusher needs via FA, I could see us trading down this year. In my wildest imagination, I see us trading this year’s #1 for an extra #1 next year. Then, next year we use our picks to move up to get Barkley. Dream on …
Scott Enyeart, who has very close and reliable ties to Seattle’s FO has already come out and stated that Seattle has no interest in Matt Flynn whatsoever. Not as in a trade, or as a free agent signing. It’s also been stressed that Seattle is not in the market to trade down at all, even if Richardson and Upshaw are both gone by 12. JS and PC have both come out and said they very much like who will be available at their drafting spot. Matt Flynn is almost guaranteed to wind up in Miami or Oakland. And my sincerest condolences to either one of the unlucky franchises that does. At least they will be the front runner in the Matt Barkley sweepstakes
Matt Flynn winding up in Oakland sounds about as likely as Aaron Rodgers coming to join the Seahawks as a backup QB this year.
Hi Rob
Does Sean Spence measuring in at 5’11, i think thats official anyways, does it raise any concern? for his lack of height.
nevermind, i read walterfootball and i dont think those are combine measurements.
@ Phil, my take is that Detroit will restructure other contracts to get those guys taken care of. I also don’t think Houston is going to let Mario Williams go, so it is looking like the draft is going to be the place to find our rush needs.
It will be interesting to see if the Seahawks make a play for a guy like Larry Grant at linebacker or a Robert Meachem to play receiver.
The knock on DeCastro had been lack of brute strength while being lauded for his technique. His showing in the bench press makes me think his stock will actually rise and he’ll probably go to KC at 11.
Tagging Flynn and sign and trade rumors are surfacing and not without history behind the FO @ GB having done so in the past. In the past I have said no touchy if GB did’nt put a value on him and allowed Flynn to reach UFA. Tagging Flynn changes the story a bit and opens a 2nd round value consideration. Would any of you change your tune for him at that value?
Jonathan – I think it’s a sign of high hyped up the combine has become. It’s almost too dangerous to perform because the media makes too many snap judgements. For what it’s worth – I’m interested in the combine to a degree, but I hate the way the media makes it a defining event when we’ve had multiple seasons of college football to make judgements on players. Tape will always win the day.
Vin – I’m led to believe there is no chance that trade will happen. Apparently Seattle has no interest in Flynn.
Phil – Seattle wants to build through the draft. They won’t be going big on pass rushers in FA like Avril and Williams.
Misfit74 – Flynn to Oakland is much more realistic than that. Their new GM is from Green Bay, they are creating a pure WCO. They have no attachment to Carson Palmer who will earn $12m in 2012 and could cut him or trade him (cutting him saves $7m). Their only means to shape the team in the off season is via FA, let’s not forget that. So it’s not as unrealistic as some may think.
David – 5-11 is fine for a linebacker, height isn’t a big deal at the position.
Belgaron – I think there’s a pretty good chance KC drafts DeCastro.
woofu – Not at all. Flynn should be flat out avoided IMO. And I’m not sure the league will allow Green Bay to tag and trade under the new CBA despite the rumors. Plus – GB aren’t going to risk carrying the cap hit on a backup QB who is franchise tagged. New England did it to Cassel not knowing if Tom Brady would be healthy with a knee injury. Keeping Cassel – even for millions – would’ve been common sense. Green Bay tagging Flynn would be a huge risk with potential hefty consequences if they can’t shift him.
I keep hearing teams say GB should franchise tag Flynn in order to trade him. I think, “that’s the dumbest thing I ever heard.”
As Rob notes, a “tag and trade” may not even be legal under the new CBA. Regardless, it defies common sense. GM 101 — you never make one move in anticipation of another move occurring.
All the actual and opportunity costs associated with Flynn signing with another team are now sunk for Green Bay. Franchising him simply adds the price of the tag to sunk costs with no guarantee of getting any value to offset it. GB would be taking all the risk of having to keep Flynn at a price that is likely higher than he could get in the market. If you’re a rival GM, why offer much for Flynn in trade?
I would hope, if Seattle sees something special in Cousins, they are willing to pay the 2nd round choice. I would be sad if they were passed by on their favorite spot due to principals.
I like Hawkspurs picks. Would LOVE that draft, but I do not see Dwight Jones or Spence sitting pretty in the third round. If they had a fall I would LOVE to see Jones picked up!
I have a feeling Richardson will be available at 12, but Upshaw will already be gone by the Bills. So, If Upshaw is gone and Richardson is available with Coples I get the feeling Richardson will keep on sitting until the later half of round 1. I wouldn’t be surprised if Richardson made it to the Bengals he is picked up at 17. Great pick for the Bengals if that did happen. They are in dire need of a RB.