Cheers to England and USA both making it out of Group B.
We’ll see you guys in the finals! 😉
MountainHawker
Hey Rob,
Found a great little video on Mazi Smith. Thought I’d share it here. How would you feel about using Seattle’s native 1st rounder on him? The thought of pairing him with Carter or Anderson…well it’s good to dream
How about we just chose a defense to play and then play it instead of making a wholesale change mid season. This team does not adapt well midway through a game much less a season.
Mick
That’s a very valid point Rob. Should we insist on a scheme and perhaps let the players who don’t fit the scheme go? I’m thinking at least Taylor and perhaps Alton Robinson, and some of the interior Dliners. Or should we adapt the scheme to the players that we have? Do we change the D coordinators if we change the scheme? I hold them accountable for not being able to improve the game. I’m also thinking about what Harris said, that in the Fangio scheme the LBs are very important. We have to do better than starting Barton there.
Still, I’d love a WR with our original first round pick, maybe we’re lucky to hit a Chris Olave.
Tien
The Seahawks had bad defenses the last two years under Ken Norton. He finally was fired and most of us believe that those bad defenses were due to bad coaching from Norton and not enough talented players on the D.
Clint Huurd replaces Norton and they switch to a Vic Fangio style defense AND they added new productive talent in Nwosu on the line and the three rookie CBs (Woolen, Bryant, Jackson) as well as Neal replacing Adams. The defense started out terrible like in past years, played better for 3 or 4 games, and have sucked again in the last two.
I can’t tell whether the old system is better than this new one but I give the slight edge to the old one because in Norton’s last two years, the D was really bad to start the season and steadily improved so that it wasn’t terrible anymore by the end of the season.
This leads me to think that your suggestion to switch back to the old scheme might be the better move, Rob. I don’t care which scheme they use but even under the old one, the Seahawks in recent years have asked their DL to drop back in coverage rather than playing on the LOS or rushing the passer. I hope that whatever scheme the Hawks end up with in 2023 that they stop asking their DL to drop in coverage. I included their edge players like Nwosu, Mafe, and Taylor in the DL group. Let them play and defend the LOS like they should be!
But I also strongly believe that the Cowboys, Jets, Niners defenses are where they are today mostly because of years of losing and then using their high draft picks on defense. The Hawks have also spent a lot of draft picks on defense but have not drafted well until last year. Crossing my fingers that they continue drafting well with their high picks this year and that many of them are for the defense.
The Seahawks had bad defenses the last two years under Ken Norton. He finally was fired and most of us believe that those bad defenses were due to bad coaching from Norton and not enough talented players on the D.
Not enough talented players? Sure.
Those bad defenses were to due Norton’s coaching? That was a symptom, not the problem.
Dane
People are forgetting how stupid our scheme was under Norton. I remember having a defensive end covering Davante Adams. And I mean lined up that way pre-snap. That kind of thing happened regularly. It was asinine. This year’s scheme is much improved.
The more I think about it, the more certain I am that the problem is mainly talent.
Here’s the DTs on the roster: Myles Adams, Poona Ford, Bryan Mone, and Al Woods. Woods’s primary skill is occupying two blockers on run plays, and that’s about it. And he is 35. The rest of the guys are JAGs.
Here’s the DEs on the roster: LJ Collier, Shelby Harris, and Quinton Jefferson. All JAGs.
Here’s the OLBs on the roster: Bruce Irvin, Boye Mafe, Uchenna Nwosu, Darrel Taylor. Nwosu is good, Bruce Irvin is old, and the others are question marks.
We’ve only got one legit inside linebacker on the roster, and we’ve only got one above-average CB. Our best safety right now is Ryan Neal.
How does this defense not have a massive talent problem? How can you say it’s a scheme problem when we haven’t even seen the scheme executed properly?
But they’re not so bad that a 600 yard game, with zero pass rush, giving up 300 rushing yards, is explained away purely by talent — or will be fixed by simply a good draft. There are serious schematic problems at play here, clearly.
People are forgetting how stupid our scheme was under Norton. I remember having a defensive end covering Davante Adams. And I mean lined up that way pre-snap. That kind of thing happened regularly. It was asinine. This year’s scheme is much improved.
I’m afraid I didn’t clarify what I was saying.
Norton is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
When the defense is sloppy and performs terribly with different coordinators and the same head coach, it’s time to look at the common denominator.
Doge
I cant imagine the NFL loves the reemergence of the bruising gap scheme runs that have done really well this season. I think the NFL probably wants the game to go in a more finesse style long term. I could totally see the NFL changing some rules which may make a Fangio defense better. Not one to bank on, but something to think about.
I’d just be a bit shocked if the NFL wants to see more full backs, extra lineman, etc instead of the pass happy offenses which garner so much more attention from fans. There’s no way the league wants a bigger and slower game.
Definitely true Rob. Not trying to excuse the abysmal play, just put add another perspective with a league-wide context. The league-wide emphasis on lighter, quicker defenses to defend Mahomes have been met with a power run game. I just don’t know if that is a flavor of the week or the start of a trend.
Even if its a trend I think there is a good case to be made for sticking with the scheme and focusing more on personnel changes. Loved your recent mock draft for this reason, better DL talent and a big safety who can tackle like Skinner is a great start.
A fair bit of media talk this week about issues with CJ Stroud.
Issues we’ve been discussing since the end of last year and in great detail during the summer and the CFB season, despite the relentless media hype that he was essentially a flawless prospect and a shoe-in to be #1 or #2.
Trevor
Anthony Richardson is +15000 to be the 1st pick on Fan Duel. Thinking about putting down $100 to win $15k
Damn, that’s a fairly low risk for a very large reward. However, I caution you that Rob pointed out that Levis is the most likely to be able to step in and play immediately and Houston will know that and need that (barring Rob’s projected Jimmy G trade and then they ain’t going Richardson either).
CJ
Levis is +1500 there, he’d make a tasty hedge for sure.
Jimmy G is a free agent at the end of the year. His contract prevents the 9ers from franchising him. Rob’s comment that Jimmy G could be a placard holder in Houston is right on. All of the draft eligible qb’s have warts and are not certain franchise qb’s but I sure would like to see Seattle draft one it is one position I think this scouting group and Schnieder have a pretty good idea of what they want and how a player projects unless we can trade our early pick for lots of draft capital including future firsts (which would allow us to the capital to move up and pick a qb later) I think we need to draft a qb assuming one is available they love. I crush on both Levi and Richardson.
206
Anywhere from $10 to $100, pull the trigger!
Robbie
I put a 100 down on each player. Worth the risk for that price!
Ryan Purcell
Feels like it might be a little quick to bail on the scheme after just one year. They are still figuring it out. Clearly! But worth considering I guess. What difference would it make personnel wise? And what would the draft implications of that be?
Well, right now they have more players better or equally suited to the old scheme than this one.
‘Still figuring it out’ is a generous way of putting it. The season is 12 weeks old and they’re giving up 600 yards to a 3-7 team at home. That’s crisis point where you have to discuss scrapping the whole thing IMO.
Pete Carroll, defensive oriented HC? Maybe not so much.
Corner back guru? I’d say yes for sure.
I know talent has been wanting somewhat on the defensive front 7 for a while now, but we haven’t bereft of it either and the results have been very poor for too long now, whatever the scheme. The buck stops with Pete. He’s not getting it done on pass rush and run D. Considering the crap pass rush, the DBs probably should be lauded for standing up as well as they have…not great outside of Woolen but not terrible either.
Not saying you’re wrong but I’d love to here some examples on why Pete is a DB guru? Because a vast majority of the time he’s been our head coach our DBs have been sheet.
Sherman, 5th rounder likely HOF
Tariq Woolen 5th rounder already being avoided by teams
DeShawn Shead, turned into a starter quality corner
Tre Brown looking good until injury last yr
Mike Jackson nondescript for iirc 2 teams playing pretty well this year for Hawks
Brandon Browner, blossomed in Seattle and a total badass
Jeremy Lane, a huge loss in Super Bowl vs Pats
Etc
Etc
Not all success stories of course. Didn’t work with Shaquill Griffin for example
I know the pass blocking was shit, but no way I saw it worse than the run D. I question their grades here despite them not being very far apart.
TJ
Thoughts on Michigan’s center Oluwatimi? Not sure where he projects. Is he a potential fit in Seattle?
Romeo A57
I know that voting for the Pro Bowl is stupid, watching thecPro Bowl is really stupid, but Jordyn Brooks is currently in second place for ILB selection. I really hope that Seahawks fans who actually watch his games this year are not voting for him. I saw someone joke about checking his trade value if he is considered pro bowl level:)
FYI Woolen and Geno are also getting a lot of votes which is OK I guess other than potentially adding more money for Geno” s next contract request
That game was crazy! So glad we won though. We have now won our last 6.
Tyler Jorgensen
Pete has thrown a ton of draft resource and money at fixing the defense while running his preferred defense since around 2017 trying to recreate/get back to the LOB. During the past several seasons, that defense has looked at its best, mediocre and bend-not-break.
We already know that the talent in this draft doesn’t appear to have game-breakers like those teams listed in the top5 who are 4-3. So throwing resource at fixing the D without the players being the right ones won’t solve much. And what’s more, much of Pete’s best defenses (ET aside) was founded on lesser round players and castaways elevating their game.
Other than 2nd rounder Bobby Wagner and ET, the next highest drafted player was Bruce, and while a great complimentary piece, he was never a great player. People just presume that if we use three of the four first rounders on defense all will be fixed.
I’m less convinced.
I don’t know what we should do schematically, but I do believe we should throw three of the four picks at the offense, elevate it both short and long term, use one 2nd and the rest of the draft on the D, and see if we can piecemeal something together there while becoming a true force on the other side of the ball. We’re closer on offense. Instead of trusting we’re closer, get all the way there. THEN fix the defense. Before Lockett fades and the interior OL with two short timers (Gabe Jackson and Blythe) fall off a cliff they’re nearing.
Get ahead of the game on the offensive side, for once.
Does Denver win another game?
They play
@ Ravens
Chiefs
Cardinals
@ Rams
@ Chiefs
Chargers
The Rams and/or Cardinals maybe? I just got my hopes up for a top 3 draft pick which means they’ll probably win out now.🤦
Trevor
What if the Hawks decided to all on on having the best offense in the NFL in 2yrs. Add elite offensive players on Day 1 -2 and high upside but raw defensive prospects on day 3. Then finish the rebuild by going defense early and often next years draft.
#4 Athony Richardson
#16 Micheal Mayer
#36 Jalin Hyatt
#50 John Michael Schimtz
#82 Kenny Macintosh
Don’t think they will or that they should but if they did the offense would be stacked for the next 5 yrs.
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Cheers to England and USA both making it out of Group B.
We’ll see you guys in the finals! 😉
Hey Rob,
Found a great little video on Mazi Smith. Thought I’d share it here. How would you feel about using Seattle’s native 1st rounder on him? The thought of pairing him with Carter or Anderson…well it’s good to dream
https://youtu.be/5YwcDhTgQ-c
Apologies for posting this as a reply SoCal. Fat fingered it on my phone
He’s an excellent player. Whether he has the length Seattle craves, that’s a big question. But he’s a top-12 pick IMO.
That’d be very nice 🙂
I’m just glad we won today and are moving on to the next round.
And to Pulisic for sacrificing the family jewels on a goal.
Intense 2nd half.
How about we just chose a defense to play and then play it instead of making a wholesale change mid season. This team does not adapt well midway through a game much less a season.
That’s a very valid point Rob. Should we insist on a scheme and perhaps let the players who don’t fit the scheme go? I’m thinking at least Taylor and perhaps Alton Robinson, and some of the interior Dliners. Or should we adapt the scheme to the players that we have? Do we change the D coordinators if we change the scheme? I hold them accountable for not being able to improve the game. I’m also thinking about what Harris said, that in the Fangio scheme the LBs are very important. We have to do better than starting Barton there.
Still, I’d love a WR with our original first round pick, maybe we’re lucky to hit a Chris Olave.
The Seahawks had bad defenses the last two years under Ken Norton. He finally was fired and most of us believe that those bad defenses were due to bad coaching from Norton and not enough talented players on the D.
Clint Huurd replaces Norton and they switch to a Vic Fangio style defense AND they added new productive talent in Nwosu on the line and the three rookie CBs (Woolen, Bryant, Jackson) as well as Neal replacing Adams. The defense started out terrible like in past years, played better for 3 or 4 games, and have sucked again in the last two.
I can’t tell whether the old system is better than this new one but I give the slight edge to the old one because in Norton’s last two years, the D was really bad to start the season and steadily improved so that it wasn’t terrible anymore by the end of the season.
This leads me to think that your suggestion to switch back to the old scheme might be the better move, Rob. I don’t care which scheme they use but even under the old one, the Seahawks in recent years have asked their DL to drop back in coverage rather than playing on the LOS or rushing the passer. I hope that whatever scheme the Hawks end up with in 2023 that they stop asking their DL to drop in coverage. I included their edge players like Nwosu, Mafe, and Taylor in the DL group. Let them play and defend the LOS like they should be!
But I also strongly believe that the Cowboys, Jets, Niners defenses are where they are today mostly because of years of losing and then using their high draft picks on defense. The Hawks have also spent a lot of draft picks on defense but have not drafted well until last year. Crossing my fingers that they continue drafting well with their high picks this year and that many of them are for the defense.
Not enough talented players? Sure.
Those bad defenses were to due Norton’s coaching? That was a symptom, not the problem.
People are forgetting how stupid our scheme was under Norton. I remember having a defensive end covering Davante Adams. And I mean lined up that way pre-snap. That kind of thing happened regularly. It was asinine. This year’s scheme is much improved.
The more I think about it, the more certain I am that the problem is mainly talent.
Here’s the DTs on the roster: Myles Adams, Poona Ford, Bryan Mone, and Al Woods. Woods’s primary skill is occupying two blockers on run plays, and that’s about it. And he is 35. The rest of the guys are JAGs.
Here’s the DEs on the roster: LJ Collier, Shelby Harris, and Quinton Jefferson. All JAGs.
Here’s the OLBs on the roster: Bruce Irvin, Boye Mafe, Uchenna Nwosu, Darrel Taylor. Nwosu is good, Bruce Irvin is old, and the others are question marks.
We’ve only got one legit inside linebacker on the roster, and we’ve only got one above-average CB. Our best safety right now is Ryan Neal.
How does this defense not have a massive talent problem? How can you say it’s a scheme problem when we haven’t even seen the scheme executed properly?
Nobody has said it doesn’t have a talent problem
But they’re not so bad that a 600 yard game, with zero pass rush, giving up 300 rushing yards, is explained away purely by talent — or will be fixed by simply a good draft. There are serious schematic problems at play here, clearly.
I’m afraid I didn’t clarify what I was saying.
Norton is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.
When the defense is sloppy and performs terribly with different coordinators and the same head coach, it’s time to look at the common denominator.
I cant imagine the NFL loves the reemergence of the bruising gap scheme runs that have done really well this season. I think the NFL probably wants the game to go in a more finesse style long term. I could totally see the NFL changing some rules which may make a Fangio defense better. Not one to bank on, but something to think about.
I’d just be a bit shocked if the NFL wants to see more full backs, extra lineman, etc instead of the pass happy offenses which garner so much more attention from fans. There’s no way the league wants a bigger and slower game.
Well, we aren’t defending the pass either!
Definitely true Rob. Not trying to excuse the abysmal play, just put add another perspective with a league-wide context. The league-wide emphasis on lighter, quicker defenses to defend Mahomes have been met with a power run game. I just don’t know if that is a flavor of the week or the start of a trend.
Even if its a trend I think there is a good case to be made for sticking with the scheme and focusing more on personnel changes. Loved your recent mock draft for this reason, better DL talent and a big safety who can tackle like Skinner is a great start.
A fair bit of media talk this week about issues with CJ Stroud.
Issues we’ve been discussing since the end of last year and in great detail during the summer and the CFB season, despite the relentless media hype that he was essentially a flawless prospect and a shoe-in to be #1 or #2.
Anthony Richardson is +15000 to be the 1st pick on Fan Duel. Thinking about putting down $100 to win $15k
https://sportsbook.fanduel.com/navigation/nfl?tab=nfl-draft
Damn, that’s a fairly low risk for a very large reward. However, I caution you that Rob pointed out that Levis is the most likely to be able to step in and play immediately and Houston will know that and need that (barring Rob’s projected Jimmy G trade and then they ain’t going Richardson either).
Levis is +1500 there, he’d make a tasty hedge for sure.
Jimmy G is a free agent at the end of the year. His contract prevents the 9ers from franchising him. Rob’s comment that Jimmy G could be a placard holder in Houston is right on. All of the draft eligible qb’s have warts and are not certain franchise qb’s but I sure would like to see Seattle draft one it is one position I think this scouting group and Schnieder have a pretty good idea of what they want and how a player projects unless we can trade our early pick for lots of draft capital including future firsts (which would allow us to the capital to move up and pick a qb later) I think we need to draft a qb assuming one is available they love. I crush on both Levi and Richardson.
Anywhere from $10 to $100, pull the trigger!
I put a 100 down on each player. Worth the risk for that price!
Feels like it might be a little quick to bail on the scheme after just one year. They are still figuring it out. Clearly! But worth considering I guess. What difference would it make personnel wise? And what would the draft implications of that be?
Well, right now they have more players better or equally suited to the old scheme than this one.
‘Still figuring it out’ is a generous way of putting it. The season is 12 weeks old and they’re giving up 600 yards to a 3-7 team at home. That’s crisis point where you have to discuss scrapping the whole thing IMO.
Pete Carroll, defensive oriented HC? Maybe not so much.
Corner back guru? I’d say yes for sure.
I know talent has been wanting somewhat on the defensive front 7 for a while now, but we haven’t bereft of it either and the results have been very poor for too long now, whatever the scheme. The buck stops with Pete. He’s not getting it done on pass rush and run D. Considering the crap pass rush, the DBs probably should be lauded for standing up as well as they have…not great outside of Woolen but not terrible either.
Not saying you’re wrong but I’d love to here some examples on why Pete is a DB guru? Because a vast majority of the time he’s been our head coach our DBs have been sheet.
Sherman, 5th rounder likely HOF
Tariq Woolen 5th rounder already being avoided by teams
DeShawn Shead, turned into a starter quality corner
Tre Brown looking good until injury last yr
Mike Jackson nondescript for iirc 2 teams playing pretty well this year for Hawks
Brandon Browner, blossomed in Seattle and a total badass
Jeremy Lane, a huge loss in Super Bowl vs Pats
Etc
Etc
Not all success stories of course. Didn’t work with Shaquill Griffin for example
Those a few off the top of my head. And I’m no Carroll fan boy, trust me.
PFF team grade for Raiders game
https://i.redd.it/b6ek4uqcay2a1.png
PFF offense
https://imgur.com/EWm6AZg
PFF defense
https://imgur.com/0U2O2IW
I know the pass blocking was shit, but no way I saw it worse than the run D. I question their grades here despite them not being very far apart.
Thoughts on Michigan’s center Oluwatimi? Not sure where he projects. Is he a potential fit in Seattle?
I know that voting for the Pro Bowl is stupid, watching thecPro Bowl is really stupid, but Jordyn Brooks is currently in second place for ILB selection. I really hope that Seahawks fans who actually watch his games this year are not voting for him. I saw someone joke about checking his trade value if he is considered pro bowl level:)
FYI Woolen and Geno are also getting a lot of votes which is OK I guess other than potentially adding more money for Geno” s next contract request
Kraken apparently inspired by the Seahawks and Huskies tonight.
It’s 8-8 in the third period!
All offense no defense.
That game was crazy! So glad we won though. We have now won our last 6.
Pete has thrown a ton of draft resource and money at fixing the defense while running his preferred defense since around 2017 trying to recreate/get back to the LOB. During the past several seasons, that defense has looked at its best, mediocre and bend-not-break.
We already know that the talent in this draft doesn’t appear to have game-breakers like those teams listed in the top5 who are 4-3. So throwing resource at fixing the D without the players being the right ones won’t solve much. And what’s more, much of Pete’s best defenses (ET aside) was founded on lesser round players and castaways elevating their game.
Other than 2nd rounder Bobby Wagner and ET, the next highest drafted player was Bruce, and while a great complimentary piece, he was never a great player. People just presume that if we use three of the four first rounders on defense all will be fixed.
I’m less convinced.
I don’t know what we should do schematically, but I do believe we should throw three of the four picks at the offense, elevate it both short and long term, use one 2nd and the rest of the draft on the D, and see if we can piecemeal something together there while becoming a true force on the other side of the ball. We’re closer on offense. Instead of trusting we’re closer, get all the way there. THEN fix the defense. Before Lockett fades and the interior OL with two short timers (Gabe Jackson and Blythe) fall off a cliff they’re nearing.
Get ahead of the game on the offensive side, for once.
Does Denver win another game?
They play
@ Ravens
Chiefs
Cardinals
@ Rams
@ Chiefs
Chargers
The Rams and/or Cardinals maybe? I just got my hopes up for a top 3 draft pick which means they’ll probably win out now.🤦
What if the Hawks decided to all on on having the best offense in the NFL in 2yrs. Add elite offensive players on Day 1 -2 and high upside but raw defensive prospects on day 3. Then finish the rebuild by going defense early and often next years draft.
#4 Athony Richardson
#16 Micheal Mayer
#36 Jalin Hyatt
#50 John Michael Schimtz
#82 Kenny Macintosh
Don’t think they will or that they should but if they did the offense would be stacked for the next 5 yrs.