Giants owner John Mara is under a lot of pressure in New York
A lot of people have discussed the prospect of trading Russell Wilson to rebuild Seattle’s roster. It’s a conversation worth having but too often the true reality of what it means is overlooked.
Wilson’s list of prospective destinations earlier this year included New Orleans, Dallas, Chicago and Las Vegas.
The Cowboys have since signed Dak Prescott to a huge extension, ruling them out.
The situation with the Raiders has changed significantly, with a chaotic last few weeks sending Las Vegas into an unknown future where replacing Derek Carr is the least of their worries.
Chicago traded their 2022 first round pick to move up and select Justin Fields. So they’re out.
It leaves the New Orleans Saints as the one clear option of the original four.
Adam Schefter appeared on Philadelphia radio recently and stated Wilson would waive his no-trade clause to join the Eagles. In 2019, prior to signing his new contract, there was also plenty of talk in the media (including from those with connections to the Wilson camp) that he would be interested in the Giants.
By firing offensive coordinator Jason Garrett recently — and with GM Dave Gettleman on the way out — major changes are on the cards in New York.
I’m going to add three other teams into the mix.
Mike Tomlin has already stated he has little interest in trying to move forward with a rookie after Ben Roethlisberger retires. The Steelers appear primed to enter the market for a veteran signal caller.
The Broncos are also positioning themselves to make a move — likely coinciding with Vic Fangio’s departure as Head Coach, with an offensive minded replacement installed.
David Tepper, the Carolina owner, is desperate to find an answer at quarterback. If he misses out on Deshaun Watson — seemingly his top target — he could turn to Wilson.
So this is a somewhat realistic list of potential trade partners:
New Orleans
Philadelphia
New York Giants
Pittsburgh
Denver
Carolina
It’s plausible others could be added but I think we can rule out the Lions, Jets and Texans. I suspect Miami will either stand by Tua Tagovailoa or trade for Deshaun Watson.
Now let’s look at the draft stock in the first three rounds for each team on the list of potential suitors, as the draft order stands today:
New Orleans — #10, #42, #98, #99
Philadelphia — #12, #13, #17, #45, #76
New York Giants — #6, #7, #38, #69, #77
Pittsburgh — #18, #50, #82
Denver — #14, #48, #56, #79, #88
Carolina — #9
Right off the bat, we can rule out the Panthers. They simply don’t have the stock to make this happen and would need to be willing to trade players to prop up the limited 2022 returns.
Knowing the Seahawks as we do, they might be willing to tempt Seattle by dangling Christian McCaffrey and three first round picks. The problem is, Carolina would wipe out their resources for the next three years to build around Wilson. Plus McCaffrey has spent the last two years injured, so his value on the field would be difficult to justify based on the cap hits remaining on his contract.
With the Saints and Steelers, they too would only be able to offer modest returns in 2022. They would be expected to add their first round picks in 2023 and 2024 as part of any deal. They might be prepared to do that, as both teams are very much aiming to compete now. The Saints in particular could live through not having a first round pick until 2025 because they have a generally strong roster and have shown a degree of skill in manipulating their cap space.
For the Seahawks though, it’s not a very attractive prospect is it? They’d save cap space in 2022 but would need to replace Wilson. Neither the Saints or Steelers have a replacement quarterback to offer in return as a stop-gap. With Pittsburgh, the Seahawks would be getting only a pick in the second half of round one. New Orleans’ at #10 is more attractive but it’s nowhere near high enough to get at the limited pool of blue-chippers in this class.
This is why I think Sean Payton might fancy a change of scenery next year. It’s potentially easier for him to go to a team with a quarterback, than it is to acquire one for the Saints.
The Eagles and Giants are far better placed to make a move with their multiple high picks this year. With this looking like a down year in the draft, they can afford some short term pain without blowing up their resources until 2025. Swapping picks in 2022 for a big name quarterback carries some appeal.
However, there’s also something else to consider.
Philadelphia’s picks become less attractive with every passing week. They are winning football games and so are the Dolphins and Colts. Instead of having three selections in the top-10, those picks are currently #12, #13 and #17 (and rising).
This would still enable you to control the middle section of round one and you can make a case for players who might go in that range. Jordan Davis for example — or one of Trevor Penning, Bernhard Raimann or Abraham Lucas if they last that far.
Yet without the ability to draft a player with the potential to be a true game-changer, it’s hard to imagine trading away a franchise quarterback and not getting at least one elite-level prospect in return.
Sure, you might be able to pair picks #12 and #13 together and tempt one of the top-two to trade down. But why would the Lions or Texans want to take themselves out of range for Kayvon Thibodeaux and Aidan Hutchinson? Or Derek Stingley?
Having picks #12, #13 and #17 might be a nice thought but you’d be picking in what I’d describe as the worst section of the 2022 draft. You basically have a small group of top-level prospects then the players going between #8-50 might have very similar grades.
I hate to say it but the chances of landing another Germain Ifedi, L.J. Collier or Jordyn Brooks with those picks is realistic. What you really need is someone who gets on the field and makes an immediate impact. You need someone who can be top-five at his position. Think Nick Bosa or Quenton Nelson. Otherwise, why trade Wilson?
The Giants picks are a bit earlier in the first round (#6 and #7) and they could throw in an early second rounder (#38) and perhaps another pick in 2023. John Mara, the Giants owner, is under severe pressure to turn around his floundering franchise. A bold move for Russell Wilson would likely win round the fans, at least temporarily.
You still face similar problems though. Who are you taking at #6 and #7? The objective needs to be to get quality players, not simply address perceived needs.
An argument can’t be ‘just draft an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman’. If you whiff on these picks and Wilson enjoys a new lease of life in New York, it’ll be a disaster for Seattle.
Swapping Wilson for, say, Aidan Hutchinson and then one of Evan Neal or Trevor Penning, is an argument that carries some weight. You’d still need to find an answer at quarterback but you’d be, at that point, embracing a long, potentially painful rebuild. Two players of that caliber would be a good start.
Simply selecting from whatever’s left won’t cut it. A Wilson trade has to be the launch pad for a new era, not simply an opportunity to generate some fun chatter during the combine.
The rumoured/touted deal with Cleveland in 2018 would’ve given Seattle picks #1 and #4 in the draft. That’s the kind of return you’d need in this class to set yourself up in year one of a major rebuild. It’s hard to build a case for life after Wilson, if you can’t get anywhere near the top eligible players.
This is what ownership has to be aware of. Embracing a future without Wilson needs to be fully understood. Just as life without Pete Carroll would equally need to be studied and evaluated. Who’s out there? Who wants the job?
Having draft stock is fine but eventually those picks have to become quality players. Especially if you’re entering a world with no franchise quarterback on the roster.
They should already know what direction they’re going. These discussions should’ve already taken place. The next month should be about putting your ducks in a row, ready to act at the seasons end. Let’s hope this is the case.
Otherwise you end up making desperate, ill-timed moves. Such as the Jamal Adams trade.
That deal, which is a fireable offence in itself, could cost this team a higher pick than any they’ll get from a Wilson suitor.
And with it announced today that Adams will miss the rest of the season with a shoulder injury, the whole debacle just gets worse and worse. A trade that looked horrible from the minute it was announced continues to dog this franchise.
This blog made a strong case for dealing Adams last off-season, even if it meant taking a severe hit in trade compensation. Seattle’s first error was to make the trade. The second was to double down — keeping Adams and then paying him a huge contract.
He ends the season with a 60.1 PFF grade.
Here’s his season breakdown:
Colts — 70.7
Titans — 63.6
Vikings — 63.6
49ers — 49.4
Rams — 36.6
Steelers — 62.4
Saints — 52.2
Jaguars — 75.2
Packers — 79.6
Cardinals — 44.5
Washington — 75.9
49ers — 28.9
Four good games.
It’ll cost the Seahawks $28.4m to move on in the off-season, per Over the Cap. Thankfully, the year after, a window opens to ship him out.
The Adams trade is the headline act of a disastrous rebuild since 2018. A win against San Francisco can’t mask that. Seattle’s ownership has to be ruthless, bold, ambitious and prepared for what is next. And it can’t be the status quo.
Edit —- since publishing this article, the following report has emerged.
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The offseason can’t get here soon enough.
You are 100% right. The Adams trade should be a fireable offense. We just need to hope that leadership is held accountable by ownership for their incompetence.
Rob, thank you for taking the time to explore an uncomfortable topic. As you said, it’s a conversation worth having. There’s a very real chance that Wilson might not be here next year (for many of the reasons you outlined before the season and again more recently). It’s important to explore the good, the bad, and the ugly of what that might look like.
Personally, I’m horrified by the thought of entrusting JS and PC to restock the roster after trading Russ. 9 drafts in a row with miss after miss, plus their asinine draft strategy of plugging positional need over talent/skill shows the odds of them blowing every pick is higher than the odds of them getting even one pick right.
It isn’t worth it.
As for worrying about who can do a better job than PC that might want the job, I would think anyone would do. Seriously, how much more does a 70 year old coach have to do prove he’s lost it?! From the Dams Trade disaster, to playing scrubs like Mayowa over Alton Robinson, to sticking with Tre Flowers, to letting all his good young coaches leave and replacing them with Old Cronies and never-weres, to say nothing of 9 years of atrocious Free Agency mismanagement, to his meddling with the offense to the point it fell apart completely, he’s gone from perhaps the second best coach in the NFL to perhaps the worst.
And that’s not even taking into account his biggest failing–his piss-poor clock management. Last week’s waste of timeouts and defensive substitution failures on defense in the first half alone were a fireable offense for PC and his coordinators.
The only answer is to move forward with new GM and Coaching Staff.
Positional need over BPA could make sense. Not when you go positional need AND still don’t take the best player in that “need.” That’s the undoing.
Mcdowell over Watt.
Penny over Chubb.
And trade a mountain for a safety who just simply wasn’t as impactful as Earl Thomas who might have made the hall of fame if not for injuries and his mental actions.
Hey ST: Too many people are making the assumption that the Allen gang would choose Pete Carroll over Russell Wilson. We don’t know exactly how much control / influence Pete Carroll has over personnel. Keeping Schneider would maintain some level of continuity. I think they choose Wilson.
If Schneider stays, Wilson will go
IMO
I agree Rob.
Well w/ Adams out, I’m excited to see what Neal can do as a starter. My guess is that we’ll see the same level of play from Adams, if not potentially an uptick in turnovers.
I hope Ryan Neal takes that job and does not give it back. I cannot stand Jamal Adams.
Ah, yes, the Jamal Adams disaster. What a joke. Two first round picks and change for a defensive back who sucks in coverage. And can’t stay healthy. My instinct is that trade was all Pete driven, as no competent GM would be “all in” on dealing the draft picks they did for a strong safety. Worst trade in franchise history. Yes – even worse than Tony Dorsett because a young franchise trading one pick for a bunch of picks is at least a good idea in theory, whereas there was nothing good about the Adams trade in theory.
How shameful would it be to trade Russell Wilson and the best pick you got back would be worse than the pick you gave up for Jamal Adams? That’d be painful.
I’m not against trading a haul for a player. If I’m a team like the Vikings, I’d trade a lot more than what Adams cost for a QB like Wilson. Had the Seahawks offered the haul they did for TJ Watt last year – you wouldn’t have heard me being negative about it from the start because a dominant pass rusher is worth the draft picks, imo. Sure, Watt signed a big contract the following year, like Adams, but if you have greatness – it costs you quite a bit. But for a guy like Adams – it just never made any sense.
Rob,
How likely is it that Wilson would prefer a team without an established (championship) history, so as to cement his own legacy in the city?
If this is the case, I could see him agreeing to, say, the Eagles over the Giants.
Granted, if things get bad enough for him here, he could soften on that desire, just to get out of town.
Re: Adams…
Your comment above…
“That deal, which is a fireable offence in itself, could cost this team a higher pick than any they’ll get from a Wilson suitor.”
… just cuts to the bone.
It’s just inexplicable the resources given up for Adams, even when we were expecting the picks to be in the 20’s. Now that it will be a top 10 or even top 5 pick, it is such a gut punch.
The one caveat for suffering through an awful year like this is always the prospect of obtaining a blue chip talent in the upcoming draft.
That we don’t have that to anticipate, is such a letdown.
*If* Adams was performing at a pro bowl level, then we could at least feel good about the SS position going forward.
But it is clear now that he is not an elite player.
Is that because of a chronic shoulder issue? Our scheme? His lack of ability? Big contract complacency?
I’m not sure, and I don’t know which of the above I’d prefer.
I don’t know how anyone can make a real argument that the defense plays better with Adams in the game over Neal.
That is the ultimate indictment of the trade and current situation we are in.
The trading of first round picks for Adams is related to the Seahawks being unable to make a good first round pick.
The whole first round was devalued by Pete Carroll because he made so many mistakes in that first round. Collier and Brooks being the latest. Not that I have anything against either guy, but they can hardly stand next to a second round pick like Wagner that was made 10 years ago when they were in their drafting prime.
Even when they traded down it was a mixed bag of Pennies.
Given that past history, even if they traded Wilson or Wagner or Adams, who would trust them to make draft picks of the magnitude needed to rebuild the team?
If justification for trading No. 1 picks is that the guys they choose will suck anyways – then those making the decisions should be fired immediately.
I think Brooks is a decent player. I don’t think it’s fair to compare him to a second rounder like Wagner, because BWagz is going to the Hall of Fame. Even though Jonathan Taylor was obviously a better option, at least Brooks doesn’t suck like Collier.
And, yes, I agree – if they are careless with picks like in the Adams trade because they don’t hit on 1st rounders, then they don’t deserve to get any picks in a Wilson deal and to use them – especially in a draft void of top end talent where they’d be picking.
Really good summary Rob, thanks.
I am becoming increasingly nervous and pessimistic about the potential outcome of all of this.
1) Wilson is getting healthier (good!) and played better, so maybe the offense will be scoring again
2) We play two of the very worst teams in the NFL plus the Bears and this team has not quit (which is good), they could end up with 7 wins very easily
3) 7 wins is enough for Pete to believe he still has it, “he turned it around!” (no he didn’t) and come back
4) I just can’t see ownership eating the 40-50 Million Pete is owed over the next 4 seasons after he “turned it around!”
If Pete is back, Russ is out, heck he probably wants out period, this team is not competing with massive holes all over the roster. I can easily see Russ forcing his way out, we are stuck with Pete-ball, and we get one of those less than desirable trade hauls Rob just lined out for us, Schneider trades back with most/all of the 3 first round picks and we get a dozen players from round 2 of the worst draft Rob has previewed since 2013.
Ok, I’ll back off from the ledge now.
Fear not internet friend I’m right here with you on the ledge.
-or-
Most reasonable least “fun,” option.
Ownership has someone in their ear who sits PC down and says “thanks for the memories, here is your payout, here is a mock up of your bronze statue outside of Lumen, good bye and goodluck.”
Money is still money. And if they don’t like paying PC out I wonder how it’s going to grab them to pay Jamal Adams nearly the same amount to also do, due to yet another injury, next to nothing.
Get a new coach. And much to Rob and the site’s chagrin just take your lumps with existing picks.
Money is of no concern for Jody Allen and likely will not factor into any decisions made on coaching changes.
Jody Allen’s net worth is roughly $20 billion+. If my math is right, $50 million owed to Pete, while a substantial amount in any real-world scenario, is only 5 pennies per 20 dollars in Jody’s case. Or in other words, she’d still be worth $20 billion+ after paying out the entirety of PC’s contract.
The joys of “f@*k you” money means it is absolutely not a hard pill to swallow if moving on from any non-salary cap person in the Seahawks organization.
The only problem I see in regards to compensation is that we/the team would be looking at the value for us. High picks this year, primarily. Wilson still remains very much in the driver seat with his no-trade clause.
We might want the haul of the Giant’s picks but what if Wilson doesn’t want to play for the Giant’s and amends his list to the Saints and the Steelers? His list last time was fairly odd in regards to markets last time. Does JS have to say “f— it,” and take what would probably amount for three consecutive uears of first round picks most likely none of which would be higher than this year’s?
I dont know, I kind of think if/when it gets to that M.Rogers/Wilson would have a serious conversation of where he wants to play with discussion of realistic teams that could actually make the deal with him. Maybe.
Maybe. But therein lies the problem. Wilson is going to want to win soon as well. The chicken/ egg of this is frankly some of these teams with tons of picks aren’t a Wilson away from winning. On the other hand the saints/steelers with mediocre capitol probably would be right back in the hunt of winning with a Wilson.
And Wilson holds the trump card with no-trade clause.
My opinion is if Wilson doesn’t play better the rest of the season I don’t see any team giving up close to the compensation you guys are talking about.
I assume you do not like Wilson already. But better than what? I don’t thknk a gm with half a brain even those not in the market for a qb would look at the first down year in a decade that incudes an injury shortened season and think “we’ll that’s over,” for Wilson.
I’m not disagreeing, Im just adding that its been since week 6 of the 2020 season.
I recently got up this morning and clicked on this blog not long after morning coffee only to see that Jamal Adams is out for the season. The gift that just keeps on giving. I was reminded of that scene from Plane Trains and Automobiles when John Candy and Steve Martin were retrieving the trunk that fell off the car onto the highway in the awful winter weather at night after a near accident.
Steve Martin turns around and sees the car ignite on fire and begin to burn. After all he has been through trying to get home, all the frustration, all he can do is start to laugh in a macabre kind of way about his condition and clap his hands together.
That scene always tore me up, and more than adequately expresses my feelings about the Jamal Adams trade now.
I might add Cleveland to your list, as I think they might well move for an upgrade to Baker Mayfield. With a franchise QB they might have what it takes to truly compete for a SB.
But the list seems about right to me now.
I’d demand Myles Garrett, Baker Mayfield, and their 1st round pick (maybe another pick or two later in this upcoming draft).
I live in NYC and know mostly Giants fans, while anecdotal I can say the majority of em and Im talking at least a dozen ive chatted with all think RW is washed and prefer not giving up talent for him…
point being I dont think trading the shop for RW would necessarily be a huge win for Mara…
So, the report is that Adams labrum tear is the same shoulder that he had “repaired” from a labrum tear last year.
Also there is supposedly “significant” damage, aside from the labrum tear.
Our newly signed, highly paid SS has a chronically damaged shoulder.
How much confidence will Adams have in this shoulder going forward, even after it is “repaired” again this off season?
I predict a less aggressive player going forward, with more “business decisions” to protect the shoulder.
And for good reason, as the shoulder will never be stable going forward.
We are stuck with damaged goods, who won’t be an impact player, even when “healthy”.
I had a significant shoulder injury attempting to stand up a 115kg snatch. Almost at the top and the barbell fell behind me and ripped my shoulder out, tearing labrum, rotator, AC joint, and bicep tendon. This happened 2 weeks before a competition and I managed to still do it. The most I could snatch at the competition was 80kg. Spent the next 4 weeks waking up in severe pain at night and decided to have surgery. The guy who did it is the same surgeon at the time who worked on the Broncos and Avalanche.
Spent 6 months in a sling and rehab, lost a lot of strength. Very painful at times. Started training again and shoulder never felt the same. Got another MRI and found out the labrum repair failed. My shoulder was still at risk of falling out and my AC joint, scapula, and rotator muscles were all moving in a way to compensate, risking further damage if I continued to train without another surgery. I spoke with a company that supplies the anchors used to repair a labrum and the CEO told me the success rate the surgeons don’t tell you is less than 20%.
I’m afraid to have another shoulder surgery again. Can’t lift heavy anymore, can’t rock climb (which I loved), and have to manage the movement and pain doing everything else I enjoy.
I don’t know Adams’ situation, but know of 2 other lifting friends that are in the same boat as me. Shoulders are serious injuries. It’s very likely Adams has been an average player due to shoulder issues and this one may render him unstartable. I of course wish him the best recovery, and hope he can return to an elite player. I’m just not optimistic about it.
Geez that sounds rough. If Adams is in that ball park he won’t be able to pass a physical and will have to retire
Well, I’m not a pro athlete with a short window to make as much wealth as possible either.
Adams is electing the additional surgery that I have thus far avoided. He’s in an entirely different risk/reward equation than me. He still needs to play football at an elite level and this is the only way he can do that. It very well could be successful.
As for me, I’ve found other interests like cycling and kids.
Strongman says hi! I kid, i kid. It is however where every injured lifter including myself ends up on a long enough time line.
Your shoulder injury sounds brutal. My best friend is a physical therapist, hands mostly, but spent years in college. And from women’s volleyball to football she said shoulders were mostly about postponing the inevitable in regards to ever really “fixing,” them when seriously injured. Too much of our lives uses our shoulders to ever really stop and let them heal.
Indeed! I was was competing at 70kg and working to cut to 65kg, which may have played a part. Had a 250kg deadlift that I was pretty proud of at that weight too. Those days are long gone now- especially the weight class, haha.
I just can’t imagine a guy who uses his shoulder to make a living ever returning to original form with or without surgery. Even if he successfully repairs and rehabs properly, it’s there mentally.
The fact that Adam Schefter recently stated Wilson would waive his no-trade clause to join the Eagles is very telling and confirms speculation that he’s more than willing to move on at seasons end. Not much of a surprise though, no one wants to stay on a sinking ship.
As Rob has pointed out, from a Seahawks perspective the best trade partners are the Giants and Eagles with the Eagles picks quickly losing value as they win more games. As Rob has pointed out, chances of landing another Germain Ifedi, L.J. Collier or Jordyn Brooks with those picks is realistic. Especially condsidering we don’t know who will be making those picks and if its JS, well we all know how recent drafts have gone.
But heres a thought, the Texans currently have 9 picks in 2022 and with Will Fuller leaving in FA it will most likely be 10. 2023 they currently have 10 picks, 2024 8 picks and 2025 7. If they trade Watson, they stand to gain a lot more picks, its not out of the question. Could or would the Texans make a run at Wilson with all that draft capital? They could potentially offer a great package while most likely keeping most if not all of their native picks. Plus they are projected to have 40 million in cap space in 2022. What if they offered Wilson a say/input in drafting, free agents, offensive coordinator could they win him over? This would be a bold move by the Texans, but if done correctly they could quickly field a competitive team around Wilson.
Just a thought 🙂
I’m not advocating that the Seahawks trade RW, but the reality is there are going to be a lot of teams looking for a QB and we should expect teams showing interest as well as RW maybe wanting to move on.
Rob,
If these teams arguably would be interested in trading for Russ, but don’t all necessarily have the draft capital to do it, perhaps they would sweeten the pot by agreeing to trade established players along with draft capital. For example, imagine a trade scenario involving TJ Watt, plus picks, coming over from the Steelers. Instantly brings in a presence that we have not had in ages – a game-changer on the defensive line.
The Steelers aren’t trading TJ Watt
And in a master stroke of genius and foresight, the $12.44m option bonus in Adams’ contract that is due 5 days after this year’s Super Bowl is guaranteed for injury.
In other words, Adams just locked that bonus in.
Is Adams the Sarkisian of safeties or is Sarkisian the Adams of coaches?
Adams won a lottery ticket for being good not great and will make a ton of money becausd a FO is full of hubris anout how good he is and they are. Sarkisian keeps getting paid currently by a university that is delusional about his skills and where they are in the college pecking order.
Texas in the SEC…yikes.
Maybe it eventually keeps some of their home state talent from migrating to their new competition, but holy cow. There is going to be carnage in Austin for a few years to come.
It’s almost like Adams had a smidge of leverage in those negotiations, huh?
As terrible as the initial trade was, I think that signing him to the extension, rather than cutting losses and getting what you could for him, is even worse.
It’s like a gambler who’s already way down, just pushing all the rest of his chips in and hoping for the best… against the odds.
I couldn’t care less about the money at this point. I’d pay him the full amount of his 2022 salary just to go away.
Worst trade in team history. One of the worst trades in NFL history.
The best route is probably cutting him in March with a June 1 designation.
They save $2m in 2022 but have a $21.33m dead cap in 2023. But the salary cap should experience a nice hit of growth and the Seahawks will have more maneuverability.
It is very possible Adams has played his last down for the Seahawks.
This is a draft blog after all, and I love the prospect of having early picks to salivate over, but trading Wilson would be the encore performance to Adam’s headline act.
Not that it’d be the wrong move to make now, but I can’t decouple it from the series of mistakes made up to this point. This wouldn’t be a topic of discussion if the Hawks were contenders. Some prefer to blame Wilson for that, but I ask to direct me to a pro-bowl player on this roster besides the honorary Wagner selection. And if you point to Bellore, you’re proving my point.
If Wilson goes, it’d be because of bad roster building, and Pete needs to go as well. I’m willing to see what John can do with more control and another coach, but if Pete is still here and Wilson gone, I’m out too.
Tyler Lockett.
I’m with you. If PC is making the de facto trade my borderline enthusiasm will dissipate altogether. Any trade for Wilson to bring in Rodgers or to recoup lost picks by this staff will prove ownership does not care one iota.
If. If there’s a new coach and sadly they think “okay we are worse than we want to be honest about and we need to really rebuild,” I feel like i would be okay with it. Not love it but understand it.
Dickson and Diggs also have a shot.
You got the numbers mixed up. It is a 28.4 cap hit and a 19.3 savings.
No, the numbers are correct. It would actually cost the Seahawks $19.3m extra against their cap to trade or cut him before June 1.
Got it. It is a matter of perspective.
Perspective? There are no cap savings involved in moving Jamal in 2022, just cap hit expense added.
Come on, cha!
Try squinting your eyes and putting your hands over your ears…. and standing on your head.
It’s all just how you look at things!
For some reason I keep seeing $16 million for his pre 6/1/22 dead cap hit.
Yeah, it’s a complex contract. The $16m dead is the prorated portion of his original signing bonus. That is the starting point for dead cap hit in 2022.
The option bonus of $12.44m will be paid out 5 days after the Super Bowl makes it $28.44m dead money. The option bonus is guaranteed for injury, so it’s essentially locked at this point, unless the Seahawks and Adams try to come to some settlement. Which there is very little reason Adams would agree to a penny less than what he signed for.
Any possibility of trading Wilson must begin with the condition that he is demanding it.
If Wilson is not demanding to be traded, you don’t trade him.
Sadly, I think he very much wants out of Seattle. It has also put me in a bind for the Seahawks winning. We are not a good team. I think we’re better than our record, but “middling” is the kindest way to put it. The Niners are the gift that keeps on giving. Next up are the Texans. Our remaining schedule is so weak that my biggest fear is not losing…it’s winning too much. That would then give Carroll ammo for “see, see we’re just another Adams trade away from another Super Bowl!” (shudder).
I think we finish with more losses than wins, even with the schedule. We have very little to go by about Allen’s take on the team, but the Trailblazers’ cleaning house after hitting a ceiling is not a bad sign. If that general philosophy is in place for the Seahawks Carroll and Schneider are gone.
Nor does Adams being out help show that they should be calling the shots in a future with or without Wilson.
Any ideas about keeping Russell Wilson need to start with a plan for better protection and a running game to compliment his passing. This next draft (or free agency) has to include at least three offensive linemen and a running back. I don’t see any way around it. You might think that is a lot of linemen but we will lucky if 2 out of the 3 are good enough or stay healthy.
They my as well plan for the next draft to be offensive line heavy if they want to keep Wilson. Even if he leaves, the next quarterback would thank them for providing a half way decent line instead of this crap fest.
As far as Adams goes – besides massively overpaying for him – how will they handle Diggs, their better safety who is due for contract negotiations? He’s got to be thinking he deserves 12=15 million/year.
The Diggs situation is a huge concern.
He’s going to ask for more than if they’d just extended him last off season, too.
So, now you are confronted with losing one of your best defenders at an important position… or investing another big contract to an older player, so you can have (by far) the most expensive safety duo in the league.
Not an enviable situation to be in.
We’ve seen how terrible Pete’s defense can be with below average Free Safety play.
What are your thoughts on this Eagles scenario, Rob:
Seahawks trade Wilson to PHI for a package featuring 2 2022 first round picks, 1 2023 first round pick, Rookie stud OL Landon Dickerson, and QB Gardner Minshew
Use the added draft capital to reinforce the trenches at OT among your SDB featured names of Neal,Raimann, Pfenning, Lucas etc & a truly threatening DE or impact CB perhaps.
I recall Landon Dickerson being one of your choice names to bolster the OL from last draft season. He has started at LG and played admirably this season from what i can gather, but we could then finally fix the Center position by moving him back to his natural position where he was the first C drafted ahead of the likes of Creed Humphrey even. We all know too well that C has been a dumpster fire since Unger’s departure and Dickerson could change that as a potential all-pro and physical tone-setter.
I’m a Minshew fan from his wsu playing days and persona. At a minimum, he could be at least a stopgap trial type QB for a season to see how he’d fit and also evaluate the prospective next class of Rookie QB’s that should provide more talent than this crop. He will play 2022 under the last year of his bargain basement rookie deal making less than $1M. All of Minshew’s rate stats and efficiency numbers look pretty enticing and those were compiled with some lackluster groups in Jacksonville.
Even after absorbing Wilson’s dead cap hit expenditures, I believe this would provide added money to pursue legitimate free agents. Use it to pursue one elite Jack Conklin type rather than the normal combination of random OL afterthoughts like Finney/Ogbuehi/Shell
I had a similar mindset regarding a trade with the Eagles. 2022 1st rd picks from MIA and IND, 2022 2nd rd pick, 2023 1sr rd pick, QB Gardner Minshew and LT Andre Dillard. Dillard was a 2019 1st rd pick that has dealt with an injury and his replacement played well enough to bump Dillard out of the starting lineup. I can’t see PHI parting with Dickerson.
SEA would have some cap space available to add a splashy FA or two in the mold of a starting CB or DE. If a solid OL is available (Terron Armstead type) that could be a priority and you ripple the draft after that move.
To me, PHI makes the most sense of the teams as they are the most complete team that could plug Russ in and be successful. Extremely strong OL, decent weapons and leadership desiring a QB with an arm. They can use their native 1st rd pick to add an additional offensive piece.
SEA in return would get a stopgap in Minshew (has won NFL games) and possibly draft a QB like Ridder or Strong in rd 2 or later. They could use the two 1st rd picks to draft the likes of DT Jordan Davis and a starting OL (LT or Lindenbaum). Dillard could compete at LT/RT while he’s still on his rookie contract. SEA would still have a decent native pick in the 2nd rd to continue to add pieces.
I think one thing to keep in mind regardless of if Pete or Russ is done (maybe even both) that this team will be drastically different. With potentially 15 UFAs and some roster decisions like the future of Wagner, we’ll be looking at a completely different team in 2022
I like the way both of you are thinking about this. Outside-of-the-box! Problem is Pete being able to think outside as well, which I don’t think he is capable of.
Can anyone please tell me where that 60.1 rating places him in terms of rankings for safeties? I believe last year overall he was the 53rd the 53rd ranked safety in the NFL and I’m curious where he ranks this year.
I don’t know if this is up to date but last I heard he was 63rd out of 90.
Wow, just wow.
Worst trade in franchise history.
Fireable offense indeed.
And adding insult to injury is the way Carroll pretends like there’s no problem, that it was a good trade and we just need to give Adams enough time to figure out his role in the defense.
I gotta believe a coach like Belichick or Tomlin or Harbaugh would have a come-to-Jesus moment in a presser when asked about that trade. Something like, yeah we had high hopes but it just hasn’t worked out the way we hoped. Something that acknowledges the failure of it all.
But not Pete. He’s just still trying to figure out how best to utilize Adams.
And that’s another thing…when Pete gets a tough football question that requires a serious, thoughtful answer, more often than not he gets a condescending tone, says something inane and that’s it. Like he thinks we don’t know what we’re seeing. Can’t stand that about him.
That’s not a Pete problem. That’s a press corp problem. Whenever Pete gets snippy, the press backs off when they should dig in.
Yup, 63rd overall (Diggs is 33rd but has been rising the last several weeks), down from mid-50s last week. His overall rating is 60.1: 77.3 against the run, 78.2 rushing the passer, and 47.4 in pass coverage (which is 84th out of 91 possible safeties). One could argue he wouldn’t even be a starter on some of the better teams.
I’m going to preface my comments that it was and always will be an awful trade and an awful contract. Any time you trade the farm for a player and it doesnt get you at least to a championship game, you deserve ridicule.
But, I think he has played pretty well for most of this season. Sam Gold did a pretty good breakdown on Duggar’s podcast about his roles, coverages, and changes they have made this year with him. Him shifting into coverage more to help the abysmal CB play made a very significant improvement to the pass D, pass D that gets very little help in the form of pass rush. The D has improved a lot, and he has made a couple of picks and pass D credits. He is not a bad player, and I think has been a good player for at least the last 5-6 weeks. PFF is not the end all be all for a player.
That said, his play has not been of the game changing, #1 contract at his position caliber, or even close to that. He’s not even the best S on the team this year.
PFF is not the be-all and end-all.
But we’re also very quick to take opinions like the one noted in your comment as gospel. Why?
What if PFF is right?
You’re exactly right. PFF has flaws, but at least it seems somewhat objective as opposed to Seahawks Twitter which has been beating this drum of “he’s been good (or great) this year”. I have the exact same question as you Rob— he’s been good based on what?? I’ve watched every game and he’s barely a factor. If he’s been so good, why are we not better? And why should we take someone’s eyeball test over PFF?
That being said, PFF does have Kirk Cousins as the #2 overall QB and Aaron Rodgers as #8, so there’s that.
I’m not taking it as gospel, I think he has played pretty well personally. So have people that watch and analyze all 22 and understand coverage schemes.
It was a horrible trade, and he has been playing pretty well and his play isn’t up to his contract. All three of those things can be true.
Not that they have so much more draft capital, but I wonder if the vikings are a dark horse candidate. If they trade cousins it saves them 35 mil according to over the cap. I can’t think they’ll bring back Zimmer, they consistently fail to break through into the upper echelon under his leadership.
If they hire an offensive coach, they have a decent Oline, a pair of stud receivers, good rbs, and a talented TE. Not saying it’s likely, but I could see it happening
The most interesting scenario is PC/JS staying, and RW going off somewhere else. I’d really actually like seeing the storyline unfold like that. Let’s see who can do what, when one isn’t trying to do what the other wants. None of this is of any real consequence. That storyline would be fun. Even the Adams trade is fascinating in the disaster it appears to be. Of course I want positive outcomes, but all off this is fascinating. Thanks for all the great coverage, Rob. Cheers.
Respectfully, I disagree. If that were to happen, I for one would have zero interest in watching. I’d rather bring Mora and Russkell back–Carrol is done. We wouldn’t win more than 3 games without Wilson this year. Your scenario would be a Keystone Kops style debacle of ineptness.
This isn’t fascinating, it’s a tragedy. It’s like watching my parents slowly go senile, all while insisting they are fine, nothing to see here…
The NY Jets find this all very fascinating. Also, even though nobody here wants to see the Seahawks struggle, Rob is doing a damn fine job of approaching the Seahawks collapse/reset/transition/playoff push (jokes) from fascinating & provocative angles. Thanks Rob for making this all suck a tiny bit less!
A couple thoughts about JA and RW3.
JA: What’s bothered me this season is that they’ve cut his blitzing in half and he’s clearly pulling up on those high-impact tackles that are near the goal line or sidelines. I’m worried they knew this shoulder was hanging by a thread, which makes the contract even worse. I mean, I didn’t even see the hit that caused the injury and worry that it might not even have been that bad of a collision. This raises the possibility of trying to get out from under him with an injury settlement. He is untradeable at this point unfortunately.
RW3: I am firmly of the mind that the Adams trade is part of why Russ is unhappy. Trading that haul for a guy that can only contribute so much (even if he were truly elite) when there were gaping holes on offense is likely part of the rift. The fact that he goes by Prez only adds insult- true insult- to injury. Make a commitment to Russ, get out from under Adams, and involve him in the coaching search and roster build in order to repair the damage that has been done. I just don’t know that Jody has the wherewithall to understand the gravity of the situation. Regardless of whether you are in the trade camp or don’t-trade camp, we need to decide about shutting him down for the season if we take a couple more losses. Him continuing to take a beating behind this so-called offensive line doesn’t help either situation.
One last thing: Josh McDaniels? Roast away, but talk about a guy that already has his Belichick and Carroll-esque failure under his belt and showed on Monday how well he understands his roster, the situation, and the opponent.
Re: McDaniels — As long as he does not have final say on draft picks, he is definitely worth consideration.
Re: Jody — She needs to determine who had pushed for the poor draft picks, poor draft/roster/trade management and missing out on good draft picks because of it. If its determined Pete overruled John on these poor moves then Pete’s gotta go. If John encouraged Pete to make the poor moves then John has to go. If Pete and John were in agreement over the moves, then both get the axe.
I’m so excited to see Ryan Neal, and hope now numbers will prove Adams is not any difference. If there is any difference it will be positive difference Adams being not on the team.
Pete and/or JS can be fired just for the Adams trade.
I agree, I’m excited to see what Ryan Neal can do. Adams has never been the player here he was in NY, for whatever reason. When the trade happened, I was weirded out because I wanted to see Neal and Blair compete for the job, and I still think they would have been better off to go get a pass rushing DT and or DE rather than an expensive SS.
Now it’s clear I was correct. Bummer…
But hey, now it’s the Ryan Neal Era…
I don’t know how connected Jordan Schultz is, but he is reporting that his “sources” say that Wilson would wave his no-trade clause to Broncos, Giants and Saints. Mentions Schefter said Eagles.
Lots of trade opportunities and certainly intriguing to entertain potential options.
I remain firmly in the “3 1st rounders + pick(s)/player(s)” camp. To me, if RW were traded, draft stock aside, I would absolutely LOVE to get Javonte Williams from the Broncos. There’s a guy you can build a run game around. Then sign Fournette in free agency and have a true 1-2 punch at RB. However, with Carson signed through 2022, it makes Fournette less likely in this scenario. I’d be good with Javonte-Carson backfield if Carson is relegated to RB2 (only because of his proclivity to break his own body) assuming Javonte would outright win the RB1 spot. Hell, I’d even be happy to have Penny back as RB3.
Similar arguments could be made with the Giants including Saquon Barkley in a trade. Notably his contract is up after next year (5th year) meaning he’s more of a rental with a growing list of nagging injuries.
The Saints and Kamara trade could also be made, but again with no financial incentive, and seeing as Seahawks would be eating a large dead cap hit if RW were traded, this seems highly unlikely and is less desirable than Javonte Williams in a Seahawks uniform.
Disclaimer: I do not want to trade RW. Also, sometimes I dream of a universe in which we did not trade for Jamal Adams. Maybe Marvel could work it into one of their plots in an upcoming alternate dimension/universe movies coming soon to a Disney+ account.
Javonte would be perfect for Seattle. I suspect the Broncos would want two first round picks for him- or at the very least a 1 and a 2- if someone wanted to trade for him straight up since he’s still on a rookie contract and so inexpensive while hard to replace. So Javonte, a 1, a 2, and Jeudy? I don’t like trading for future 1s and would rather have known commodities. I’m not interested in Chubb since he’s coming due for a contract and I’m not sold on him anyway.
Will be interesting to hear how the Denver fans and radio guys react with trade proposals. Denver isn’t trading offensive starters to get Russ, especially Williams. Jeudy has been injured and entering 3rd year, will demand large contract afterward too. It’s those guys that make Denver an attractive destination or Russ in the first place.
I think a trade with Denver starts with Surtain. Without him, I’m not sure how it gets done.
Curious to hear more on your thoughts of why a deal starts with Surtain? Do you mean from the Seahawks perspective or Broncos?
A few reasons, primarily from the Seahawks view:
1) Russ is a party to the trade and in order to waive the no trade, he’ll likely have a say in personnel exchanged. He’s unlikely to approve a trade to a team that is shipping away offensive weapons. He knows success with a top RB and trading Williams is likely off the table.
2) Surtain is probably the most valuable player on the roster. He’s had a fine rookie season and upside looks very promising. He has 3 years left on a rookie deal and plays a premiere position. He went Top 10 last year, and would easily be a Top 10 this year. Next down the list is Simmons, but he’s a safety on a large contract…and frankly a team leader.
I would hazard a guess that Surtain is the one untouchable on the team. Javonte does not have the fifth year option like Surtain does. If Surtain was a necessary part of the deal, I suspect Broncos hang up the phone or maybe offer him straight across. I think he’s considered the cornerstone of their next decade.
I agree on Surtain, which is why I have a hard time seeing a trade with the Broncos (as much as I’d like to see it as a Denver fan). They won’t trade offensive stars to acquire a QB which leaves the defense. There isn’t anyone of value that they can trade there. Chubb coming off another injury (first ACL, now repeated ankle sprains) is unlikely to get a 5th year tag at +$12MM. He’s basically a free agent.
Well reasoned and something all should consider regarding trade scenarios. That it is unlikely that Wilson will trade to a team that includes a trade of offensive players that are starters.
Yeah, considering the Broncos only have a mid 1st and two 2nds in a supposed weak draft class, you’d think Surtain would have to be included for the Hawks.
Wouldn’t mind a package of Surtain, Javonte, 2022 mid 1st, 2023 1st if they can use some of those assets to get Deshaun Watson or Aaron Rodgers. Not sure Watson’s price tag is with all the uncertainty, and Rodgers nearing 40.
I would say there’s 0% chance of Surtain being involved and it’d be unreasonable to expect that.
If Denver wants RW or another veteran they will need to be creative. Eg — giving away an entire draft class, plus future picks.
https://twitter.com/jtheaps9/status/1468697381428285443
..and Schefter?
Schefter’s credibility has nosedived recently, putting out reports that were untrue and a quid pro quo arrangement because his “source” wanted a certain narrative out there (e.g. Dalvin Cook domestic abuse debacle).
after the initial segment, Eisen spoke about Brady and what if he isn’t available next year, so maybe another place that might be qb needy team is the Bucs. Don’t know about their cap or anything, but if I were Wilson I would also include them
Preach, Mike
https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1468665450649333773
The undercurrent in his comments is what I’m getting at. There is a reason that they put him in coverage more as opposed to the LOS. Possibilities:
1) He told them he doesn’t want to blitz anymore and wants to be more of a “pure” safety. Unlikely
2) They decided his actual talent is in the defensive backfield and not as a blitzer. Unlikely
3) They knew his shoulder was suspect, signed his extension anyway, and wanted to minimize the risk of reinjury. If this were to be true, and came to light, then the whole lot needs to be fired. I mean, they sure did yank him from that game quickly even when he reportedly wanted to go back in. It’s almost like they were just waiting for it to happen.
The whole lot needs fired anyway but I get your point. If scenario #3 is true (very possible) it makes their ineptitude even more glaring.
I’m a little confused and irritated by this idea that JA would be worth the trade and contract if he was used correctly. We know his blitz rate last year was outrageous for a safety and we saw the consequences on the back end of all those telegraphed blitzes: big play after big play. At the end of the day he’s a box safety and even in the Jets scheme, where he excelled, I don’t think you could justify this contract. He was never the safety this team needed.
Bradley McDougald coming in for a visit.
If the Jets draft Hamilton with our pick and we draft a safety with our R4 pick this year, we can fully complete the irony.
I always liked Bradley, thought he was a solid player…nothing great, just solid.
Yep. He was solid. He needed a QB type of FS next to him, but he was good when he had that.
Wow.
Peter King on Pete Carroll’s future:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ljBzZCoww
This is great marriage advice.
Welcome aboard Peter. We’ve been on the train for months. I do get that you cover 31 other teams I suppose. He’s right about Jodi needing to meet with RW and getting down to brass tacks.
He’s been talking about it quite a bit this year, especially with Florio on their yahoo! podcast.
Kind of off topic but I’m really glad to hear these talking heads start talking about Jody. She can’t be a recluse forever and will ultimately have to come out of the shadows to show her hand.
Agree about Jody and talking heads Tom. And she may be in even deeper with the Blazers. The decisions she makes over the next several months will shape both franchises for the foreseeable future.
I can see, and agree, with firing Pete and John for the entirety of their personnel decisions going back 5 years or so. Maybe longer. It’s clear they’ve made a host of bad/questionable decisions. Something is awry in their process.
Not sure I agree that the Jamal trade “by itself” is a fireable offense. I think That’s putting it on a little thick and is no way to run an organization. Put them on the carpet and make them defend it, sure. Force more oversight, maybe. Fire for 1 bad deal and you’re entering Steinbrenner/ Al Davis territory where no good coach or GM wants to work for you.
I think it’s more the cumulative effect of several bad decisions that’s brought us here. If they’d done a good job the prior 5 years the trade would still both suck and blow, but it would only barely matter on an otherwise strong roster. The owner could say, “strike one, dumbass. I’m watching now.” But sadly they’ve not done a good job for some time now and probably even they could admit they’ve done this to themselves.
In fact I might argue they need to be fired even without the Jamal trade, not because of it. And that’s a far worse condemnation than 1 big miss on a overall very bad trade. Their bad decisions are endemic, not episodic.
I haven’t argued otherwise.
The Adams trade though, every aspect of it, is a fireable offence. It’s a total and utter disaster.
There has also been a number of coaching decisions regarding plays, play design, and hiring of support coaches that just aren’t working out. And that’s been going on for a long time too.
Just one example is the classic take a time out and then get a delay of game call. A favorite of poorly coached teams.
Just curious, if we did trade RW what his cap hit would be on the team aquiring him?
$24m in 2022 (16th highest AAV currently)
$27m in 2023 (tied for 13th highest AAV currently)
There is big value there.
Thanks Cha, yeah definitely a good value for the acquiring team
Which means they’d better pony up A LOT if he’s dealt. After all, the Texans once gave the Browns a 2nd round pick just to take Brock Osweiller and his crappy salary dump. It’s not just a franchise QB they’d get, but rather all that salary cap flexibility they’d be getting, too.
Jody needs to meet with RW and Damien Lillard. She either needs to give them what they want (within reason) or deal them knowing it will be the start of a long rebuild that won’t end until they acquire a superstar to replace them (any position in basketball, QB in football).
16th and 13th AAV! Lets trade Russ to…. Ourselves!
😀
Zach Cunningham just became available, likely due to the ineptitude of the Texans decision makers but maybe there’s something else brewing. Could be a nice young, athletic LB for a team possibly looking to move on from an older LB. Thanks to our record we might actually have a shot on waivers for him too. Haven’t looked into the money, I know his contract was just restructured though.
Sure would be nice to know the backstory here. He was also sat for a quarter in a previous game for conduct.
I recall something about constantly flouting team rules. Apparently Culley had a one on one with him and told him he had two strikes and they were giving him one more chance. He blew off a game day COVID test and that was that.
He’s got a big guarantee next year, like $10m. I think the chances of him being claimed are low. But maybe the Seahawks bring him in once he becomes a street FA for a look.
Cody Barton, for all the PC talk in training camp, has disappeared, once again relegated to special teams.
Thanks Cha. Cody was a big part of our special teams earlier in the year but Nick and Homer have basically taken over on that account. Never hear Cody’s name anymore.
Did I hear it right that Homer is the one who made that TD call on the fly? I know he isn’t the greatest RB we have but he sure seems like a heads-up player and makes some key plays. I hope we keep him if only for special teams.
Rob what are your thoughts on Cunningham?
Liked him in college. Not seen enough of him since to pass comment
I seem to remember seeing him as a better fit for 3-4.
I can’t stand our local sports media. By way of illustration:
Ran to lunch from the office today. Time is money (read: I’m a lazy fuck) so I drove down the street to pick up food at the QFC. Drive time door to door is 90 seconds.
I usually stream music but I forgot my phone. All my presets on XM radio were at commercial break. So I made the desperation decision to switch to 710 ESPN. Haven’t listened to them once since Salk’s new reign of terror started. I was immediately reminded why.
When I flip to the station, the host (no idea who it is) was interviewing somebody named Ray (my guess is Ray Roberts) about the hawks. Ray said that, for the first time in forever, the offensive line is going to need to bring in outside help to be competitive next year. My jaw about hit the floor. How an analyst can say that about the hawks is simply baffling. This team has needed an offensive line upgrade since 2014. Even this last year, the team was criminally negligent in addressing the center position.
Host then switched over to the defense, asking Ray to elaborate on just how “special” Jamal Adams is, how he “evolved” into a “complete” safety, and just how much the defense will miss him. I just had to laugh and shut the radio off at that point. Didn’t even make it 90 seconds before turning it off in disgust.
There is so much to talk about with this team. This is a franchise at an absolute crossroads, facing questions about its ownership structure, iconic head coach, super-bowl winning GM, and superstar quarterback. We are staring a total rebuild in the face. We just found out that our “star” safety, the one we traded all of our most meaningful draft capital for, is out for the year after an underwhelming (at best) performance for the first half of the year. He will need shoulder surgery for the second time in a year, leading to serious questions about his long-term health. And the topic of conversation is somehow, “Gee, how great is Jamal Adams?” Baffling. Glad we have this blog Rob.
And then there’s John Clayton…
I gave up on John about 5 years ago.
I’ve literally heard him say this on 3 separate radio appearances over the last couple months. If he’s wrong, he deserves to be totally relegated and pulled off the air. As insufferable as he’s become, I’m still surprised he takes such an extreme position without offering any counter evidence.
I think Clayton has mentally lost it. Half the time he can’t answer the questions he’s given, answers are completely unrelated like he doesn’t understand the question. Gets names wrong. He just seems gone. I suspect based on what he shares with his personal life and his constant grinding on national radio hits that he’s broke or facing dire health care expenses and is just working because he can’t afford not to. It’s sad if true but I’m unsure why anyone would put a mic to his mouth at this point. He seems physically and mentally unfit for the job.
John Clayton is a lot like Pete Carroll. A local legend. A hall of famer in his field. A huge reason I love football and the Seahawks the way I do. Deserving of tremendous reverence, respect, and thanks. But ultimately the game has passed him by and needs to ride off into the sunset.
Frankly, I find his last act somewhat humorous mostly. Like I get a chuckle when he talks, knowing he’s out of touch, but still offering opinions and seems to have a light-heartedness about it all.
That’s what makes this comment so bizarre though. The times I’ve heard it, it’s like the radio hosts insulted his mother. He takes a second to slosh his spit and gets all ruffled up before launching angrily that he even has to address the comment. He never offers solid rationale to back it up either.
I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but I have half a mind to suspect he’s been paid to quash the story.
Utah Gross Ma Toast
At this point, I confess I’ve forgotten the player’s actual name… 😂
Again, I’m going to turn a fantastic write-up into a screed against keeping Pete and JS. Apologies.
You simply cannot under any circumstances run off an elite QB to keep a 70 year-old head coach who wants to win physical, defense-dominated games 13-10 and has not proven himself capable over the past half-decade-plus of either drafting players or signing free agents or trading for players who have the abilities required to play that kind of football – or, in some cases, any other kind of football. It is an absolute shit show of a franchise right now WITH Russell Wilson and the idea that somehow subtracting him and allowing Pete and JS to once again draft with the picks provided by moving him would somehow improve things is ‘string of expletives’ stupid. It’s absurd to consider that *this* is the year their fortunes finally change and the magic is back, baby!
Jody Allen has to have people in her ear saying this – doesn’t she?
Pete Carroll had a good run, but he has been a detriment to this franchise since, at least, 2017 and you could argue all the way back to one certain play call in particular. He currently has more power over this franchise than any other individual in the NFL has over theirs, and I’m including Jerry Jones in that. Pete is the end-all, be-all for every single decision. He hired a new offensive coordinator who was “open-minded” enough to do things the way they’ve always been done. He has elevated and maintained KNJr as a DC for reasons that escape many people. His personnel decisions alone should have him ousted – even if you subtract the Coffee Cup, they have been resoundingly awful year after year. When asked who holds him accountable, Pete can only point to ‘Tater’ as the man keeping him grounded. ‘Tater’ ain’t getting paid to hold Pete accountable. That’s Jody Allen’s job and she has to do it.
Get Sean Payton. Get Nate Hackett. Get somebody who can change the direction this franchise is trending. Get somebody who has some appreciation for an elite QB – the rarest of all things in football.
I just have a bad feeling that Russ goes and Pete stays and the results of that will be years wandering the wilderness. It doesn’t have to be that way. Fire Pete.
I’m going to name one name that will probably piss some people off. Bill Belichick. He changed his ways and for the betterment of his team. He no longer is the personnel czar. He has a bonafide OC that plays to his players strengths. He adjusts his game plans week in and week out to address the opponent and the weather!
Can Pete do this? Here is his chance. None of us expect him to. I would love to see him swallow his pride and put this team first.
That would be ideal, but there have been no signs that he won’t meddle in every aspect of the franchise. Rather than think that *this* might be the year that Pete changes, take the sure thing and make a change. You simply can’t have him making another year of personnel decisions and cannot toss RW to another team because Pete prefers a Penny-up-the-middle offense. Fire Pete.
Concur 100% with Toast. Great post (as usual.). I do share the worry that Pete may stay … “more fired up than ever,” of course … “Trubinsky’s going to be an absolute monster for us in the Wing-T, just wait …”.
The key question: Can the giraffe-bone smuggler be counted on to act if Pete doesn’t step away?
What we need to do is to get a group of SDB guys together, go down to the stadium before a game in Speedos (which she reportedly likes) twirling flaming giraffe femurs (which she reportedly likes) like batons in front of a big ‘Fire Pete’ sign. What could go wrong?
Uhmmmm, you guys are on your own with this one!
(Loved the visual of this!)
How about dressing up in a mouse costume and thrusting our crotches at cars outside VMAC?
James Corden did it so it must be ok.
https://twitter.com/_BlueAnt/status/1431409292402327553
As long as it’s mice wearing Speedos in front of a sign that says “Pumping for Pete (‘s Firing),” and there’s at least one flaming giraffe femur, it might garner the appropriate attention from Ms. Allen. Otherwise, it’s just one of my typical Tuesdays.
I thought Batwoman was the most cringe thing I have ever seen, but this is a strong contender.
*Slams laptop* WHAT’D YOU BRING ME?”
Definitely want in on this one lulz
Ugly, ugly read.
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/hes-really-rocked-by-it-second-shoulder-surgery-bookends-roller-coaster-year-for-seahawks-safety-jamal-adams
That was 5 days before the “I’m the best in the nation” / face doink Steelers game.
So, basically, the team finally realized that scheming specifically to get Adams sacks wasn’t the wisest course of action.
Adams isn’t some amazing, unstoppable blitzer who can beat offensive linemen one on one, but needs to be schemed into advantageous positions… just like any other safety would.
I’d love to ask Pete when he figured out that important discovery. Was it before or after the huge contract?
Great question. Rob and cha were both pointing out last year that his sacks were courtesy of Bobby being constantly blitzed up the A gap. Considering Pete was likely was at least one of the people responsible for manufacturing those sacks via that approach, it makes me wonder if the doubling down on a huge contract was motivated by attempting to save face on a bad trade.
yes, as ridiculous as it sounds, they doubled down to save face.
basically crossing their fingers and hoping it would somehow work out.
This is the same regime that for many years was lauded for admitting mistakes and cutting losses when it was clear players weren’t working out.
I guess it’s easier to do that with 4th round WRs than 1st round busts and/or costly trades.
My guess is he’ll never be completely healthy again. He’ll not be a Seahawk in 2023 and beyond.
Yep, agree with that assessment.
sounds like substantial damage to the shoulder. Might be a medical out.
I think that’s a very good guess.
Remember Bob Sanders? DMVP one year, injured every year after,
One more reason why we don’t need Adams in a team, and he demonstrated in New york. Hey it was terrific trade for New york.
Wasn’t the “I’m the best in the nation” comment related to that kid that died?
https://youtu.be/zMyi94GiIx4
We can debate draft picks, trades, FA signings and the amount injury luck, or unpredictable personality fits until the cows come home (although many here do agree most of those have been poor).
But what seems almost inarguable is this team, through numerous coaching staffs has completely whiffed on putting players in their best position to succeed. Which is bizarre, because they thrived with that at the start of all of this. Now we are at 6+ years of trading for guys and misusing them (J grahm, Adams) drafting DL to play OL, drafting S to play cb/nb, signing DE/LEO and having them play SAM in a bear front, drafting a T to play G, drafting a C to play T, drafting a TE to play T, drafting a WR to play TE and then actually play him at DE. The list goes on and on. All of that is talent mismanagement and should be a firable offense
No comment needed. Florio finally gets it.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/08/pete-carroll-defends-jamal-adams-trade-as-terrific/
I can’t open the link, but if he’s defending the worst trade in Seahawks history (at least since I became a fan in ’83), then he needs to be fired over a year ago. Yes, I know the Seahawks finished 12-4 last year but we all know they sucked worse than that. There was an unusual amount of luck associated with that record. It’s evidenced by the ’21 season (it’s not a shock they suck now) and before then – in the Wild Card loss to the Rams.
Whoever made the decision to trade the farm for a bum SS deserves to be fired for being that truly stupid/incompetent. Past brutal world dictators were right that if you say a lie over and over and over that others will believe it. Sorry, Pete, I’ll NEVER believe your stupidity in trading for Adams was stroke of genius (i.e. desperation) on YOUR part. But congrats on either being senile to think you can talk others into your stupidity or to actually believe your own lie (which is sad).
The guy in the comments put it best:
“It was a terrific trade … for the rest of NFC West. “
On par with the T. Lance trade for the Rams/Cardinals.
At the least the Cardinals were smart enough to know they sucked with taking Rosen. They didn’t defend it until the death like Carroll defending the trading of a pair of No.1’s for herpes.
100%
Still lovin’ “herpes” Bobby.
Why call Adams herpes when it was Carroll who made that trade?
Anyway, to your main point, even worse is that Carroll traded a pair of first round picks for a safety. In 40+ years of watching pro football, I’ve only seen one (maybe two) field-tilting safeties: Ronnie Lott (and maybe Kenny Easley).
And a HC/GM should never trade multiple first round picks for a position/player that isn’t a field-tilter.
I’d put prime Ed Reed on that list as well.
Jamal Adams is worse than herpes. He keeps giving and giving to the receiver what they don’t want. Except WRs because they like being “covered” by that bum.
Eww
Yes. Gross. But #truestory.
It’s alright we will sign baby kam… Lano hill as his replacement
That’s right around the point where I got an inkling that Carroll was starting to get a little “too” clever. Like he was starting to draft based on advanced analytics on a secret mathematical formula derived from Himalayan witch doctors. Maybe he just sees something we don’t.
Then again, I’m not high, so I probably can’t see it.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I was (and still am) on the trade Russ train only on the prospect that the relationship between Wilson and Carroll was so broken that Wilson leaving would be inevitable….so in that case trade him and get everything you can for him. Russ is frustrated with Carroll, Adams is frustrated with Carroll, as cha mentioned above, and Jodi Allen is frustrated with Carroll.
I think each and everyone here at some point felt the same way as Russ with regard to our own jobs. It wasn’t that long ago that I was hinting at transferring or quitting over pay at my own job. Sometimes you have to raise a bit of a stink to get someone to listen and take notice. People don’t like complainers, but a bad situation never gets better unless you complain.
I, as well as most of us I think, took issue with the way Russ went about this drama a year ago with the passive agressive office politics approach, but the issues that he was raising were 100% legit. Carroll is too stubborn to admit that his philosophy is out dated. Let the divorce go the other way.
I don’t believe Carroll’s philosophy is outdated. Most philosophies are good/sound if you’re surrounded by the right people. Carroll just sucks at drafting these days. His days of good drafts were over when he started drafting players he never coached, played against, recruited, etc.
Though I will admit the ’20 draft looks okay (though could have obviously been better).
Where Carroll is a fool is in trading early picks starting with the Percy Harvin trade. He’s really lost his way. And we’ve all suffered because of it as fans.
I disagree. I view Carroll as a military commander who, at first, deployed some unusual strategies and tactics that caught enemies off guard, and had the right people to do it. When you keep employing the same strategy over and over again, it only works up until the point that the enemy knows what you are doing and adjusts. That’s when you have to change.
Your point is not wrong though, but I would just roll your point into mine where his strategy in drafting needed to change as well after so many failures and missed opportunities recently with guys like Nick Chubb, Jonathan Taylor, Creed Humphrey, and on, and on as well as FA and trades.
When you have a coaching philosophy, drafting the right guys into that philosophy as well as FA and trades is all one bundle.
Did anyone tell NE that doing the same thing over and over and over again won’t work? Peteball is acceptable. It works. But as Bobby says, you need the right prices. That’s where it falls apart. The philosophy is sound.
NE don’t do the same thing over and over again though.
BB is the most adaptable coach in the league.
And he defers on offense to McDaniels
2021 is the proof of his genius. Spend, draft , delegate.
Perfect.
Hey Rob – I was shocked to see that Brady got canned in CAR, was he that bad or was something else going on? I thought he would be the type of coach the Hawks might look at once he established himself. Any thoughts on him? A young offensive mind to replace Carroll? That LSU offense he ran was unbelievable, but maybe it was just the talent he had. Appreciate your posts. Thanks.
We talked about him at the start of the season. I think it’s hard to judge him on his time in Carolina.
Seattle should go all-in to get Sean Payton… then Brady can reunite with him as OC…
Just noticed an interesting stat. Bobby Wagner is leading the NFL in tackles. OK, you would expect that from a HOF LB. Who is 4th? Jordyn Brooks.
When you have 2 linebackers in the top 5 for that stat….that means your LBs have A LOT of opportunities to make tackles. When your LBs have A LOT of opportunities to make tackles, that means your defense is not getting the opposition off the field.
Do you know who Georgia’s leading tackler is? Nakobe Dean. He has 61 total tackles this year. Do you know where he ranks? Tied with 11 other players for 336th on the stat board.
Exactly
💯
Fantastic post KD. I’ve grown very tired of the Time of Possession debate where most in Seattle’s fan base think the defense has no control over it.
They are a middling-bad defense that is being buoyed by their overly conservative play. I’ve never seen so many easy yards, first downs – in my life. The scoring defense has been good because they simply don’t give up big plays. We are like a pitcher who doesn’t give up HRs, just walks a ton of guys and gives up a ton of hits.
I LOVE the Sean Payton addition!
I think this team only needs a few good (great) moves:
1) Add a solid DT (high pick in R2)
2) Add a solid iOL in R3 (similar to D. Lewis pick)
3) Add RB in later rounds…
—
4) Add a solid RT in FA (a la 2020 Conklin)
5) SPLURG on a DE in FA (no idea who this could be)
6) Replace Wags with serviceable MIKE
Try to score a lot points next year and build the D in future drafts.
Doable with Payton & RW3.
Should be easy to find a great RB to lead the attack in the later rounds. Should be easy for Payton to get to a Super Bowl with RW when he had 15 years with Drew Brees and only ever made it to one. Should be easy to get a DT in R2 who will make a difference as a rookie. Should be easy get get another Damien Lewis in R3, never mind he went in the first few picks and the Hawks won’t pick that round until (probably) after that. I’m sure it’ll be Lewis and not Naz Jones, Lano Hill, Nick Vannett, John Moffitt, CJ Prosise, Rees Odhiambo, etc.
Glad we’re on the same page… but you forgot about Malik McDowell.
Wyatt DT Georgia
Bedford OL Indiana
Pierce RB Florida
This, together with Payton HC and Brady OC, calls for a full “mock rebuild/restructure” article, including draft, whenever you’re up for it! I would label it as “too early”, but is it really at this point with the current state of the Seahawks…?
Just one big question. You’ve repeated on several occasions you think if JS stays then Russ (and his agent) go. So considering our current mock scenario has Russ staying, who could replace JS as GM and how much power would Payton be given over personnel/draft?
I don’t know — it’s hard to project GM candidates. It might be that a search firm is hired to identify candidates
Brooks is a serviceable MIKE.
Or at least he was in college before Carroll knew best to move him outside and out of his preferred position.
Sheldon Richardson as tackle. And mark glowinski playing on his opposite side both say hi!
Hmmm…
Adjustments
And our coaches’ lack thereof
Playing from behind as well?
If we trade Russell Wilson, how does that effect the cap? Over the cap shows the Seahawks eat 26mm in dead money. With so many roster holes how can they afford to do that?
Because you also save a lot of money next year and from 2023 you save $40m.
So any contracts signed next off-season can be structured to work around the massive saving from 2023.
There are no issues with the dead money.
OK, so NOLA, Broncos, Giants…maybe Eagles could be in play (based on who might have resource and more because of RW’s desired locations)
Giants could give a package like these:
#6, #7, #38, next year R1
#7, #38, #69, next year R1, 2023 R1 and R3
any of the previous minus next year’s R1 but add Dexter Lawrence (or Danny Shelton maybe), and Nate Solder and maybe Daniel Jones
Saints could give:
#10, #42, #98, next year R1, R3, 2023 R1
It doesn’t seem that good, especially with RW they’ll likely have late R1s in the future
Maybe they could give #10, #42, next year R1, Eric McCoy, Marcus Davenport, Onyemata and maaaaybe Demario Davis (although he has a bigger dead cap hit)
Denver could give:
#14, #56, #88, next year R1 and Bradley Chubb and Quinn Meinerz or Lloyd Cushenberry and Kyle Fuller
or maybe remove R1 next year and add Melvin Gordon and Noah Fant
Eagles could give:
#12, #13, #17, #45, #76 – swipe out the year but have everything else for the future years
#12, #17, #45, next year R1, R2 – spread the pain a little
#12, #45, #76, next year’s R1, year after R1, R2 – spread it a lot
Or maybe #12, #13, #45 and Miles Sanders or Steven Nelson, Jalen Hurts vs Gardner Minshew and Ryan Kerrigan. Derek Barnett, Andre Dillard and Landon Dickerson could also be in play, but they either OL which I don’t know or not sure it worth it
All in all I can’t see a really good possible deal. Ton of backloaded contracts so it’s hard to deal a player without huge dead money.
I like the Giants with players and Saints with players deal option the most.
Saints have some solid player option on both OL and DL/defense. Not as good since they extended some players but with a good draft I’d rather get players.
Giants have relatively high picks and OK options for the lines and maybe a mehh veteran stopgap QB
The whole Adams saga reminds me of one of the Seahawks previous big failures. That is the drafting of Brian Bosworth, a great college player who retired after two years due to shoulder injuries.
Reading about it in Wikipediea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Bosworth
he was at rated #30 on 100 greatest college players of all time. He was also suspended before the Orange Bowl for steroid use.
As per wiki “Because of the steroid suspension, Bosworth was not allowed to play in the post-season 1987 Orange Bowl. During the 3rd quarter of that game, Bosworth pulled off his football jersey to reveal a t-shirt that read, “NCAA: National Communists Against Athletes”. Immediately picked up by the television cameras, this led to much consternation among alumni and administrators at Oklahoma. Aware that Bosworth was likely to be entering the NFL Draft anyway, the OU coach, Barry Switzer, dismissed Bosworth from the team.”
He went on to be drafted by the Seahawks in 1987 and was given a very expensive salary of 11 million for 10 years play. The owners can only look back with nostalgia at those mid 1980s pay rate. He lasted two seasons with the Seahawks before his shoulder injuries forced him to retire. The team doctor said that “Brian was a twenty-five-year-old with the shoulders of a sixty-year-old. He flunked my physical.” In 1993 Bosworth prevailed in a $7M lawsuit against Lloyd’s of London. Lloyd’s position was that Bosworth’s shoulder was injured as a result of degenerative arthritis which was not covered in his policy. Bosworth maintained his injury was sustained during a single hit.
I didn’t live through that era but it seems a little bit different. Jamal had three years of production before he came to us in the nfl. All pro and pro bowl. Injury was not a concern either during this time. I think there is still a possibility that a new defensive staff unlocks all his potential and the past year was some based injury luck.
Two shoulder injuries seems to be trending to a shortened career.
“Unlock his potential.” Therein is the problem with the team. If PC who is ostensibly a defensive coach with a specialty in DB’s can not use the player you spend a ton in it’s time for him to throw in the towel.
I hate to be the negative one about our multi million dollar baby, but with a bum shoulder his career is over. Yes he might come back, but he will just reinjure it. He’s done, all that’s left is to take the money and run!
Boz was an amazing college player, amazing combine.
Injuries killed his career before it really started.
He actually played pretty well in his rookie year.
Still love how Denver fans bought all those tee-shirts he made.
I don’t see any real similarities between him and Adams. Other than talent level when we aquired them.
Boz filled a need, was healthy according to the Seahawks at the time we signed him. Was picked in the supplemental draft and definitely BPA at the time.
He also fit how Seattle played defense.
Boz, while many hated the personality atleast made sense for the Seahawks at the time they added him.
Adams didn’t fill a need.
We gave up waaaaay to much for a position we didn’t need.
He didn’t fit the defensive scheme at all.
Adams just never made sense.
Definitely worst trade in franchise history as of this moment.
thanks Rob,
Good stuff, as always.
The elephant in the room for me is still: Does Russ want to stay in Seattle?
-How bad does Russ want to win? Does a losing season put more urgency in his thinking?
-Does he think this roster is a Sean Payton (or other) coach away from being competitive?
-Is the team around him capable of learning a new offensive scheme in a single off-season?
-If he doesn’t think so, is he willing to sit through growing pains while everyone else figures it out?
Russ knows he is a plug-and-play QB that can lead a good team to success in a single year:
-he did so after transferring to Wisconsin, taking them to the Rose Bowl
-he then came into the NFL and had good success from Day 1 with an emerging roster
I expect he will expand his list of teams.
As others have noted, Cleveland could be the one:
Only team (mid-nov, not sure now) that PFF has in the top 10 for Offense, Defense, and Special Teams.
Stability on the OL with 2 recent extensions. Stud RB under contract through 2023.
Not great WR, but Russ has won with “pedestrian” WR before.
Cleveland also has $39 in cap space, and $15M more if they cut Landry.
Would they go out and sign say a Ju-Ju to pair with Russ?
Last would be legacy – Cleveland has never been to a SB. Where would Russ rank with that fanbase if he got them there? In Pitt, NY, even NO Russ will always be compared to previous “greats.”
Compensation – not great, not saying I’d do this, but doesn’t mean Pete/JS wouldn’t:
Cleavelands #1 & 3 this year, 1 and 2 next, plus Baker Mayfield.
I do believe Russ wanted to stay here and break Favre’s all-time consecutive start record. Now that that’s over, he may just want to win.
Most Modern day HOF QBs have switched teams and had success late in their careers:
Brady, Manning, Favre, Montana.
My scenario for keeping Russ:
Pete goes. JS too maybe.
Then, Russ has to truly believe Waldron is the right OC and that the team will progress with him fully in charge of the offense in year 2, once Pete is gone.
Ownership hires a defensive minded coach that will maximize the talent we have on defense, whether with or without Jamal, and give RW and SW a free reign on offense.
Regardless, tumultuous times ahead.
I’ve been really enjoying everyone’s trade prognostications. I would caution anyone that includes young and/or talented oline players plus picks that I think Wilson will very much have his hand in the trade vis a vie, negating any trades that sees talented offensive players come back to Seattle. Simply what would be in it for him to depart to a team weakening itself for Seattle’s betterment and his own detriment?
There’s likely some truth in this thinking, GM’s wouldn’t want to weaken their roster to much, and Russ wouldn’t want that either. However, possible teams looking to acquire Russ might (rightly) think that it’s easier to re-acquire talented oliners than it is to acquire a true franchise QB!
You gotta give up value in order to get value. I suspect there will be no shortage of suiters should Russ and the Hawks agree to part ways next year!
I agree, but I also don’t think GMs and Russ wants to massacre draft capital too much unless the team is full of depth and young talented players and/or CAP space.
And if the Seahawks understanding this draft as Rob does, they might not be too pumped about a #12 or #10 pick. If we slide pick ratings based on the draft class, a package like #11, #14, some later picks and R1 for next year could likely mean in real value something like #27, early R2, (later picks), and a late R1 for next year (if Russ can elevate them), something like a #23. Would you trade Russ for 2 late R1 an early R2 and some other R2, R3 picks?
You can ask for one more R1 and R2 in the future to combat the weak draft class. Something like 2xR1, R2, R3, next year R1, R2, year after that R1 (plus some additional R4-7 picks maybe)
But that’s basically 4xR1, 2xR2, 1xR3. That might be a bit much for any team for Russ, and it could make roster building very difficult in the future.
A vet player who have the perceived value for a stronger draft would be maybe early R2 this year might be R1 maybe even R1+R3.
If a team have depth at that position (like Saints with Ruiz and McCoy), and/or they have some issues with that player (only 1-2 year on his contract, or not the best scheme fit, or big salary, etc) they might be willing to roll the dice if that could mean something like 2 veteran players and 2xR1, 1xR2 instead of 4xR1, 2xR2, 1xR3 for example.
And Hawks might be happy too that they don’t have to gamble on a weaker draft class and future picks.
Russ and trading team might have some leverage, but this is a mexican standoff. Russ wants to go to XYZ teams, trading teams doesn’t want to give up too much, BUT at the end, SEA has the contract. Russ can sit out, or play bad. But these doesn’t help his cause. He can talk to the media, but that also doesn’t help. It hurts the team, but doesn’t help Russ either.
It might be a compromise for all parts.
Russ would like to play for the Saints, but the Saints can’t give SEA enough. Russ isn’t over the top about the Giants, but he can live with that decision. Giants don’t wanna give up too much draft, but they’re willing to give up a player to reduce draft capital hit. SEA would love to have ton of early picks and some players, but that would be too much. This will be a balancing act if it comes to that
I think there’s a lot of assumptions here
Rob- I’m not one to gush, but it’s worth mentioning again how appreciative I am for your writing on the Seahawks.
I know there are different camps of fans for any sports team who have different preferences for how they define their fandom. When the Hawks have been good, it’s easy for most fans to simply sit back and enjoy the parade of wonder and mystique. However, this seems to have created a state media of sorts circling the franchise. It was one thing for this media group to defend the castle to the end last year with so many mixed signals, but it’s quite another to be so incredulous as to deny anything is wrong now. It seems to have sunken to outright denial of facts and emotional bypassing.
Your perspective continues to be a breathe of fresh air amid the rest of Seahawks fan media. You’ve had foresight on today’s issues and capable of discussing the reality of them in the present. Please continue to do so because I’m afraid there isn’t another place for fans to experience Seahawks reality.
Thank you, those words mean a lot to me.
With all the trade scenarios being posted I wanted to do a deep dive into just how bad the drafts and resource allocation has actually been under the reset. Note this looks just at the defense because Pete is apparently a defensive coach:
2017: six picks. A total wash of picks. One never played a snap. Four barely played and were released. One in Griffin played but wasn’t resigned. A bust of a draft. Sheldon Richardson traded for and promptly used in the wrong position. Not resigned.
2018: three draft selections. Plus the lost pick from the Richardson trade. Jacob martin traded. Griffin a feel good starter since rekeased. And Rasheem Green. Third round pick who plays like a third round pick. If he doesn’t resign this will be another draft bust. Trade for Clowney who is also not resigned.
2019: five draft selections. Plus the third from the Clowney rental. Lj collier is a bust. Blair is injured. Barton? Split, third round pick hope for more but you are getting about a third round pick from him. Ugo Amadi first value pick in three cycles. Demarcus Christmas a never was. A slight loss in draft capitol spent vs. Value. Plus Diggs for a fifth.
2020: three draft selections. Four picks including Diggs. Strangely the picks change here a bit. I don’t think brooks is good value but he seems to be playing okay. Taylor and robinson are both better than collier but are underutilized. And Diggs may be a wash since I doubt the team can afford him. Adams may be a bust if he never plays or plays but gets reinjured from now til the end.
2021: one pick. Tre Brown. Who knows. Oh and a first and a third for and a ton of money for a guy who does not tilt the field.
There it is. 23 picks. With a first still to be wasted. From 2017-2019 the team spends 16 picks ( with trades) for Ugo Amadi, Rasheem Green, and Barton three very average players along with Taylor and Robinson who may or may not be anything special. Everyone else is a bust, released, or not resigned.
I get the excitement i really do in having a big draft haul from Wilson. But not with this staff. They truly do not know what they are doing anymore.
I thought Lewis was a good pick for right guard, so of course they switched his position.
Eskridge has potential as a wide receiver assuming he doesn’t get another concussion.
Metcalf has played well, a bit inconsistent, but good enough to be #2 wide receiver.
And yes Diggs is a good value considering what he is giving the team right now.
I haven’t really dug into the offensive picks. Just trying to look at these potential draft hauls for Wilson and show that this is the same FO that completely whiffed on 2017 defensive picks. Botched tons of trades including possibly turning Diggs into a rental. And turning a bunch of picks into low dollar Free Agent level players to fill a roster.
Diggs is great value, but the only reason you got him is you whiffed on FOUR S picks (Hill, Tompson, Amadi, Blair). So its was poor process and you lucked out (because the Lions are horrible at existing) and got a pro bowl player.
Next problem is how to keep Diggs long term. He’s the best safety I’ve seen back there in awhile.
I’m sure they’ll botch that one too.
I didn’t put Diggs into the great value category because by handing Adams a ton of cash they may not be able to retain Diggs. So, for me he turns from amazing aquisition to yet another blunder.
I like that part about the lions being horrible at existing!
High-five!
If they trade Russ, it is important that this FO doesn’t make the decisions for the rebuild after
The Trade Russ news coming early this year. He has apparently altered his wishlist to go to the Giants, the Broncos, or the Saints.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10020296-russell-wilson-trade-rumors-seahawks-qb-open-to-playing-for-giants-saints-broncos.amp.html
Jake Heaps who knows RW fairly well claims this article is complete BS,,,
“I’m telling you from the mouth of Russell Wilson himself that no, this is not something that he and his team are putting out there or that he and his team wants to do in terms of where they’re at with five weeks (in the season) left to go,” Heaps said. “Russell Wilson wants to remain a Seattle Seahawk. That is as clear cut as I can tell you.”
So we’ll see.
But I do think it’s going to be interesting this off season with RW.
I don’t get Denver. Two rings? Wilson if je plated at previous season’s levels he might go to the HOF on his own. In Denver the fans would love another ring but let’s get real here…..no one is ever going to be more important to the broncos than Elway.
I don’t know what the Saints could possibly offer in a trade that would benefit the Seahawks. I saw some post that suggested the first pick in 22, first pick in 23, and Lattimore. Their 22 pick isn’t high enough, and any picks you might get in 2023 from any team have to be assumed will lose value because Russ will supposedly elevate the team he goes to. Lattimore is a good player, but he’s on a huge contract and even the best CB in football history isn’t worth a franchise QB. Russ can wish away all he wants, tis the season for wishes, but I have yet to see any scenario with the Saints that makes any sense.
Trading Wilson for picks has to begin with maximizing the # of picks we would get in 2022, because any picks in 2023 immediately lose value if you assume Russ goes to a team and wins. And as has been discussed a lot on this blog, the draft in 22 ain’t very good. Trading Russ is not only a bad idea, it’s the worst time to pull the trigger if you are looking at the value you’d get in return.
Yet today Ryss said, that he loves here, and wants to be in SEA for another 20 years.
This is where we get to the psycho analyzing portion.
What even is legacy for Wilson?
For me? I think he truly wants to stay snd for carol to go. And all this trade talk is to wake up management to what is going on.
Oh, well that’s it then.
😂
Come on Rokas
I am not naive, Rob, been following all kind of sports for a few decades, and asking myself a lot of whys in the process, and of course his words does not matter too much.
Let’s not pretend, however, that some “list of teams”, and augmented list of teams, at this stage of the season, means sth of significance as well.
But it does mean something of significance.
Because it shows that the list of teams, which had been reduced to one essentially (as this article highlights) could be expanded.
Schefter already noted Philly. I think it’s stating the obvious to add Denver and NYG to it.
I wouldn’t expect Wilson to say anything else than what he said today. Nothing that is said on the record at a press conference between now and the end of the month will make a jot of difference.
We know the situation by now. If you’re not naive as you say, you’ll know it too.
We just have to wait and see what happens. But without major changes to the organisation — that list discussed this week will be extremely valid by January and February.
It’s weird how he is still trying to be innocent in it all. Grow up Russ haha
Doubling down on “wrong!” Cowherd saying what we’ve been saying for a while now…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkMe5AFbVAs
I’m no PR specialist, lawyer, or journalist, but the Seattle media’s attempt to quash the Wilson trade news seems pretty clear to me:
– Russ has too much personal brand concern to just come out himself and demand a trade. He, and I believe rightly, want to make sure the fans know he’s committed to the Seahawks. This is in his own personal brand interest and the interest of the organization wanting to keep fans engaged.
– Russ (and his agent) have 100% floated trade ideas to Seahawks FO in private. We know private meetings happen among players/agents and they are meant to stay private. But info leaks from staff of teams or agencies and that’s likely what happened here.
– Heaps, Clayton, and whomever else whose bread is buttered by the Seahawks of course are going to come out and say what they’ve said due to the 1st point I brought up. Protect the brand. Russ even repeated the same words Clayton used, “it’s a non-story”.
– There is very little to gain by Russ or the Seahawks to start publicly discussing a trade. Nonetheless, conversations about the future of the organization need to be had now.
– I suspect Shefter and other journalists know about these conversations, but also know to respect the privacy of them so as not to lose their sources and occasionally slip on a radio show.
I don’t think John Clayton has any idea how the modern game works anymore. And I don’t mean to slight a HoF journalist who used to offer really great insight. Last week Bob Stettin just approached a conversation about the team moving on from Pete or Russ and Clayton just said “No!” Full stop. The guy can’t acknowledge some serious systemic failures within the organization, and just repeats the team was 12-4 last year and won the division. He doesn’t follow that up with how the team won those games, how they looked in their losses, the favorable schedule, or how the Seahawks lost in the playoffs. He also continues to defend the Adams trade because he was a high draft pick. Just this week he said Adams is a better player than Diggs just because of his draft position, totally ignoring a season in which Diggs has probably proven to be the best player on the defense.
If you trade Russ, half of the bandwagon leaves the sinking ship. What the media doesn’t like is halving their audience. That’s lots of dumbtalk dollars down the drain.
Oh God no!
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/09/chip-kelly-could-be-headed-back-to-oregon/
Hey PAC was relevant when he was there, so I am all for it.
PAC 12 football is a joke currently. Riley at USC, Chip back at OR, hopefully UW hired an up and comer, would be awesome if CFB mattered on the Left Coast again.
PAC-12 spans three of the richest states of the Union. They will never match the hunger of pissed for greatness guys from rural southeast.
And thats before we even get into the debate what academic profile a college has. People comparing Alabama, Georgia and Clemson to ND or Stanford are basically comparing apples to oranges. And the same is true for most other PAC-12 college.
It’s not the same system, it’s even not the same sport. You cannot compare the recruiting bases. Bama players are pros, elevated of most of their academic burden.
The days of NCAA as a college sports association are fairly over. And it’s a joke that the organization tries to tell us something else.
All Jamal Adams is posting on Instagram today seems to be the good old days he had in New York.
Literally all his high fives and good times in green and white, and the last one is him slunk down in a chair in an arm sling with a coat over his head.
Trade the MF’ing sad peacock.