— Defense still wins Championships. Is the pass rush more of a priority today after witnessing that Denver performance? It’s not just about Von Miller. DeMarcus Ware, Sly Williams, Malik Jackson, Derek Wolfe, Shane Ray. They’re also well supported by a loaded secondary. The Seahawks need the LOB to find its physical form and they need two other things: 1. The players they already invested in to step up (Frank Clark, Jordan Hill) 2. To find some extra pieces. A combination of free agency and the draft is likely needed to upgrade the pass rush.
— Having said that, the Seahawks don’t need to emulate Broncos defense. Denver’s offense converted one third down against Carolina and had only eleven first downs in total. They had to have a sensational defensive performance to have any chance to win. The Seahawks are capable of playing great defense — but they don’t have to rely on it. The Broncos carried Peyton Manning to a title.
— Last week we talked about Carolina’s O-line performing well without elite tackles. It’d be tempting to reassess that given the tough outing against Denver. Let’s not overreact though. Joe Thomas would’ve struggled to block Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware. The Panthers O-line gave up as many sacks (33) in 2015 as the Cowboys’ much vaunted unit. In comparison, the Seahawks conceded 46 sacks. Seattle’s main issue has been interior protection. A lot of teams don’t even rush the edge vs Seattle to contain Russell Wilson. If they lose Russell Okung he’ll need replacing. But upgrading the interior will be equally (if not more) important.
— Marshawn Lynch is unofficially retiring. Nothing is final — but he semi-confirmed it on Twitter. It’s an inevitable end to a great era in Seattle. Neither the Panthers or Broncos had a running back as decorated as Lynch. The Seahawks don’t need to make a big splash in light of this news — but they need to add another RB. The ideal candidate is someone who can act as a solid third-down back and take some general snaps too. It’d be tempting to add a veteran — but it’ll be much cheaper to draft one. There’s likely to be a sweet spot at the position this year in rounds 3/4.
— On a non-Seahawks point — is the 2011 NFL draft already one of the best ever? The top-11 picks included: Cam Newton, Von Miller, Marcell Dareus, A.J. Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith and J.J. Watt. The two misses early were Jake Locker (#8) and Blaine Gabbert (#10) — quarterbacks taken to fill big needs. Also included in the 2011 draft — Robert Quinn, Mike Pouncey, Ryan Kerrigan, Cameron Jordan, Muhammad Wilkerson, Andy Dalton, Randall Cobb, Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Jurrell Casey, Julius Thomas, Tyrod Taylor, Jason Kelce and — Richard Sherman. What a class.
I sincerely hope this aberration of a game does not start a foolish bandwagon of second guessing. This Denver defense is nothing new. Elway mortgaged the future specifically for it, inspired in part by the Seahawks. The idea of a pass rush is nothing new. This game exposed the Panthers offensive deficiencies—the immaturity and limited nature of Cam’s game, the lack of resourcefulness on the part of Mike Shula—more than anything else. Give Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware and the Denver D credit for doing its relatively easy job spanking an overhyped Panthers offense. Had the Patriots beaten Denver the way they should have, they would have done the same thing to Cam. Bottom line, this matchup favored Denver all the way, and the national media, fooled by the Panthers hype, completely refused to see it.
What the Seahawks have needed to do all season is remember what they are supposed to be: the most imtimidating physical team on both sides of the ball, but especially the defense. Not emulate any other team, but make others emulate and fear THEM. Always stockpile pass rushers. Always seek out shutdown corners. Depth and more depth.
If Denver offered a reminder of anything, it is in how Elway paid so dearly for a SB, and got it. Not only win now, but win RIGHT NOW. It can work, if a team is willing.
The Broncos and their vaunted D is beatable. They easily could have lost to NE. They might have lost the SB today. Cam, as bad as he was, still had a shot. Screw them, screw Manning, good riddance. Can’t wait to see them get dethroned and lose into the future.
If it was so easy to bottle up Cam, why couldn’t Seattle or Arizona do it? Denver’s defense was historically good, “pass rush is nothing new” but Denver’s pass rush comes around maybe once in every 5 years or so. They were on the same level as 2013 Seattle’s defense and DVOA backs that up.
I agree that Elway mortgaged the team’s future for this. They have a ton of free agents and aging key players like Ware and Manning. I don’t think the fans care about that right now though.
We actually did bottle up Cam. He had 161 yards and 1 miracle touchdown that was more Greg Olsen than Cam Newton. The Panthers had that one huge 1st run, the two back breaking picks hrown by Russell Wilson that were the game sealers and then really nothing else. He threw a couple of sideline passes to wide open receivers. Any QB in the league could have won the game that day. Cam is not special but merely had a special season
We can make fun of the Broncos all we want, but the fact of the matter is that they have been to two of the last three Super Bowls and have won one of them. Just like us.
Our future looks better than theirs, sure, but who cares in the here and now… why can’t we simply congratulate them on a job well done, as opposed to channeling our inner-Cam Newton?
And for anyone who thinks we’ve ever been a bully on both sides of the ball, you’re gravely mistaken. We haven’t been a bully on our offensive line since 2005. That’s over a decade ago. We’ve had Marshawn Lynch breaking tackles behind the LOS and Russell Wilson scrambling for mad yardage that the OL gets “rushing credit” for (and inflated stats making them look like a good run blocking line) because he was running for his life since his line couldn’t actually block for him effectively.
Sweezy isn’t a bully in terms of being a good football player. When I think of a bully, I think of someone like Hutch who you can run behind on 3rd and 1 and feel confident that you’re going to get that yard. We never run behind Sweezy like that because he’s not good and can’t get push like a legit bully can. We only call Sweezy a bully because they play hard, not because they are good. If every player on the team was a bully with the skill set for their position like Sweezy has at RG, we would go 0-16 and have the first pick in the draft every year.
For the record, we “easily” could have lost to SF in the NFC Championship Game had Sherm not had “The Tip.” Does that make our Super Bowl win any less legit? Hell no!
I tend to agree. Let’s not act like Denver has anything to teach us about championship defense. What we saw yesterday was Elway’s desperate attempt at throwing together a defense that could come close to the effectiveness of genuinely historic SB 48 defense. Next year it will be mostly gone, along with their franchise QB, and they will spend the next five to ten years minimum in irrelevance. Good for them it worked out. It easily may not have.
Our championship defense model is proven and we need to get back to it. Instead of being cute by trading back or making splash trades with our high draft picks we need to get a solid CB to play opposite Sherm and restock the rotational depth at DL. We won’t ever have the sack numbers that Denver’s scheme produces and we don’t need them. The only thing Denver did this year that we didn’t was turnovers. Get our TO numbers up, patch the hole at CB opposite Sherm, replenish our rotational DL depth and we’ll be back in championship business. We can do that while upgrading our OL with our existing draft stock, so long as we don’t get cute again.
Who cares about their “franchise quarterback” when he really didn’t do much for them this year? The Lobster could have won had he been starting. It was their defense that won it because defense wins championships.
We don’t need to emulate other teams because we already have the blueprint that both New England and Denver replicated to secure their respecting trophies. Elite secondary play combined with pass rush prowess, in Denver’s case Von Miller was just a force of nature. We just need to get back to sticking with blueprint and this year unfortunately lots of off the field drama and SB hangover played a role in the chemistry not being what it was on defense like its been in past seasons. I still say it goes back to Kam’s selfish holdout at the beginning of the season being instrumental to finishing with such a low seed and being responsible for at least 3 losses in my opinion … Rams, Bengals, and Carolina.
I am not envying JS’s job right now of figuring out how he’s going to handle all of this including the potential Kam and Bennett contract imbroglios. If they stay and aren’t renegotiated, it’s easy to see how it might affect chemistry next season just like it did this past year. If Bennett is rewarded but Kam isn’t, it’s easy to see how that could also breed resentment since it’s hard to see Kam not taking that as a slight and pout like he did this year. If they’re both rewarded that brings up the question of precedent and rewarding players in the middle of their contracts that could very well be on the downside of their careers, especially Kam. It’s almost like all the options JS could choose on this front are bad, and it’s about choosing the least bad option with the least risks while still putting next year’s team in the best position to win. But whatever decision he ends up making will be second guessed.
There’s so much more uncertainty now with the retirement of the heart and soul of the offense, the OL in a vapid state of flux, and questions over whether the defense can ever get its mojo back that it seems to have lost this season with all the 4th quarter collapses. Granted those happened in the first half of the season, but the defense did not look good against Carolina or the Case Keenum led Rams the last half either. Getting the team in sync again at a championship caliber level, both JS and PC will have their work cut out for them.
With Marshawn’s retirement and so many questions about where the heads are of key defensive stars and what their future holds, it’s hard not to think this could be the end of an era of Seahawks dominance. With Wilson in charge the team will always remain good and competitive. But they were one play away from a dynasty and the defense had the chance to be one for the ages and widely considered the greatest in the modern era if they had secured two Super Bowls in a row. This could be the end of their chapter of defensive DVOA dominance unless they can recover their defensive mojo by re-discovering their character with some new defensive stars emerging. Without Kam, or with a physically diminished Kam, the LOB will be likewise diminished unless new guys can step up and play like Kam of ’13 and ’14 and the CB spot opposite Sherm, which if we’re being honest, would be pretty hard to replace. Cary Williams no doubt did irrevocable damage to the rep of the LOB and in the record books.
I have to strongly disagree about New England doing the same thing. They would have had the same intangible advantage Denver did (Carolina exposed as not mentally ready for the big stage), but tangibly matched up worse. Bellichick and Brady have usually gotten that team to achieve better than their overall talent level, but they were no more built to attack Carolina’s defensive weakness in the secondary than Denver was and were probably less built to try much with their worse-than-the-Hawks OL and crap running game.
The Pats would have had a great gameplan to handle Cam and company, but are not nearly as built to do it like Denver did.
Anyone think the broncos will end up overpaying Von Miller after that performance?
Not sure you can over pay a guy how has that much impact on a game. He will be the highest paid no QB not named Suh likely.
I was implying that he might end up on Suh like money.
John Clayton says 16.5M x 6 years is what he will be asking for at the min…..
That wouldn’t be overpaying.
How desperate are the Broncos to have Demarius Thomas guaranteed money run out?
About as desperate as us to jettison Percy Harvin out of town.
YESSSSSSS!!!!
I will be the first of the foolish bandwagon.
If we forgot what we braught to SB48, it is time to remmember.
The lesson from a whole year of Denver defense is that a great defense can carry a poor offense on it’s back all the way to a Lombardi. We already have a much better offense than DEN has. Great for us, it should make our work easier. We already have all the pieces in the secondary and LBs corp to play the type of defense that carries the whole team on its back(even if it does not have to). We have a lot of the pieces up front as well (Bennett, Avril, Clark, Marsh, Hill), we just need one more key piece in there – A penetrating, pocket collapsing dominant DT.
We will obviously have to invest a day 2 pick to replace Irvin and add a CB later.
The first pick, the key pick for us, the one that will set the tome is that DT.
I know, Martin, Coleman, Decker etc. etc. etc.
NO. Not for me. Add that player and everything else will fall in line. Get some OL talent on the 3rd round, resign Sweezy, add a low cost vet to the OL. They wont be great, they may not even be solid, we’ll be fine.
Who is this penetrating, dominant DT we should draft at #26?
“A penetrating, pocket collapsing dominant DT”
Who?
Exactly!
I think people think the draft is a magic cure for teams. The reality is 3-4 rookie players max will have any sort of impact on their team the rookie year and fewer yet will start. There are only a handful in the whole league that will be true dominant impact players and most of those are drafted in the top 5.
You draft to add talent that can be developed not for impact that year. Particualrly after Rd #1.
Lets not forget this as we go through the draft process discussing the Hawks. If I am wrong in this assessment someone please call me out and let me know.
Great point Trev. Could not agree more.
Wilkerson!!! 🙂
What’s up with Wilkerson, anyways? He had a major injury in their last game. Will he be 100% for training camp? Seems to me that guys like him and their game take a slight dip after they get paid.
Also my pipe-dream. Let Okung, Sweez, Irvin walk… allocate that money (plus what Mebane would get) to Wilkerson. Then concentrate on Oline in the draft
You could have said M. Jackson of recent SB winner fame.
It’s not like dominant DTs fall from the sky. Oh, wait…
Rob,
In the 2nd half, once they have settled in, our OL allowed 15 sacks. Maybe it is actually the best in the NFL. (30 a year???)
It is not, it needs some help. I’m fine with inside help, i’m fine with outside help. It will just need to start at round 3.
The lesson from yesterday regarding the LOS ws that a great DL will win over a great OL. I’ll have me one of those great pass rushing DLs please.
i’d be pretty shocked if we could find a DL player in the first round that could come in and make a real impact. When looking at the second half of the season, you also have to look at the quality of opponent that the Hawks were playing. Yes the OL improved, but they faced the 49’rs twice along with the cowboys ravens, browns and a depleted vikings team.
None of those teams have top-tier interior DL play.
Rob is correct, we need our existing young players to level up and find quality FA signings like we did with Avril and Bennett.
Are those team plus rams and cards any worse than the teams the cowboys or the Panthers faced to set those 33 sacks?
Nkemdiche. He may very well be there at 26. If we don’t take him there Dallas absolutely will at the top of the second round, if they don’t just pull the trigger on him at #4.
Are you serious after watching this year that our OL is fine?
Lets get real we don’t have Denvers pass rush and are not going to magically replicate in this draft at#26 there are no Von Millers or Demarcus Ware’s. Miller was a #2 and Ware was #11 from a small school Troy.
I agree we need a better pass rush and a penetrating DT would help a lot but who exactly is that at #26. Rankins is the closest thing to that in this draft and he will be long gone by 26. Same with Spence who is the best edge rusher. Outside of those 2 guys what player in this draft is going to greatly improve our pass rush in his rookie season? Please tell me because I must be missing some guys.
Also all the sacks in this game came off the edge not up the middle. It was Ealy off the edge not Kwan Short up the middle providing pressure.
For me I was watching Mathis at LG wondering what our season would have been like with him at LG instead of Britt.
OK.
Yes, i would love Mathis in our OL and no, i don’t really believe they are good. What i do believe and it is supported by production numbers is that our offense was able to put points behind that line and i believe they can do that even better next year even with mild improvment.
As for who’s the guy i want? Wolf looked pretty awesom yesterday, so did Jackson. On paper, what do they have that Butler or Billings do not have as far as phisical stats?
Rankins would be amazing but right now i feel that even Butler at 325 with his quickness could develop into what we need during the year. Jones could be a distuptor too. he has that size and length.
Whoever is the best guy for the job available they should go and get him. Get the best guy for it is all i ask for.
Derek Wolfe: 6-5, 285lbs
Malik Jackson: 6-5, 293lbs
They are very different to Butler and Billings. We’re talking about shifty, interior rush specialists vs natural one-techniques in Seattle’s scheme.
I was thinking after the Super Bowl, out of this draft Jihad Ward, Chris Jones, DeForrest Buckner probably are the closest to resemble the Denver DLs.
I don’t think it’s necessarily this notion that Seattle’s D is “one dominant penetrating DT” away from from being a dominant D again. I think it more like Seattle is a player or two away from getting back to the deep DL rotation it had in 2013, depending how many of their own FA’s they keep. Maybe adding Javon Hargrave, Sheldon Day, or and Robert Blair III to just provide inside rush, add a veteran or two that might want to join the club, vice versa. Someone that genuinely pushes Hill in a FA year, and provides quality depth given his proneness to injury.
Also, IMO, I think it would be helpful to decide what Frank Clark is instead of molding him as a jack-of-all-trades like Bennett, b/c I’m concerned that can lead to a master-of-none for him. The inside/out game the Bennett provides is very difficult to master, and it requires a ton of savvy. Bennett dedicated years of effort learning to play at that level all the positions.
I disagree. Why can’t Kyler Fackrell be Clay Matthews for Pete Carroll? Matthews was drafted #26. We have the 26th pick.
The more I think about it, the more I want Fackrell at #26 and 3 of those first 4 picks in the first three rounds to be defensive players (with the lone other pick an OL).
That doesn’t mean I don’t want OL, quite the contrary. I’d like to add veterans to the OL and young guns for the defense. We all know that must be improved significantly.
OL solution(s)… Unger could be a cap casualty. Same for Phil Loadholt and Marcus Cannon. Cannon could/should play LG (having him at tackle is stupid). Draft a guy in the first three rounds to add youth into the mix (not that Gilliam/Glowinkski/Lewis aren’t already young).
I wrote the other day that Cable is a good OL coach with a horrible eye for talent coming out of college. However, adding a few proven vets to his stable would give him some actual good players to work with, the opposite of having guys like Sweezy.
LT Gilliam/Bailey
LG Rookie 2nd round pick (or Cannon as short-term FA signing)
C Unger
RG Glowinski
RT Loadholt/Bailey (no rule that says team can’t use a 4th or 6th round pick on developmental tackle either)
Obviously, no guarantees Unger is even released or will come back… just saying that we can go with some vets with a high pick, too.
It’ll need more help than that if Okung and Sweezy depart.
I think Sweezy stays. He is thier bully. We need to replace Okung and add one more solid guy inside, likley a vet.
So Britt stays at left guard?
Or Lewis at center?
Like i said, we need two guys, one at T to replace Okung and one inside to replace either Britt or Lewis. If we can get Loadholt to man the T sport, Dahl or someone else to compete for RG or a C to compete with Lewis.
We were 4th in the NFL behind that line, we can still score with it. Add that to a terrorizing defense generating turnovers, points and favorable field position and it’ll work like 2013.
As for Derek wolf – he had 17 sacks in 4 years, 5.5 in 2014+2014 combined. Malik Jackson has 14 sacks in 4 years. Those guys play a role helped by fierce outside rush. I think we can get the same from Jones or Butler or Billings. I’d even check to see if we can bring McDonald back after his “quite year”.
But they are totally different players who just happen to play the same position.
Derek Wolfe just signed a $9m APY contract as a specific, smaller interior rusher.
Billings and Butler are simply not that type. We’re simply pinning the most preferable DT here and assuming they’ll be capable of providing a pass rush.
And the O-line played well, apart from when it mattered in Carolina.
Lewis saved the Seahawks offensive line. I don’t know why people are so anxious to replace him. Much more improvement by replacing Britt who has numerous missed blocking assignments.
Britt at LG must be replaced, IMO.
Bullies are supposed to be physically imposing, not horrible in a short yardage situations and get pushed backwards when you need a yard.
If we can’t get great pass rush in the draft, does this prioritize doing it in FA? 16-18m in cap space. Do we go with a guy like Oliver Vernon or Malik Jackson, or make a big splash and go after Wilkerson?
Seeing that Den pass rush last night reminded us of the 2013 team and how important that pass rush and depth are. But lets not think this can be easily fixed in the draft.
If Rankins is not there. Which I am almost 100% positive will be the case we might be better off trying to sign Malik Jackson than find one in the draft.
Denver will have to sign Miller and just signed Wolfe so I think they will struggle to find $ for Jackson. Maybe he should be the target in FA. Or Oliver Vernon as Rob has mentioned.
I agree we need more pass rush depth. I just don’t see it in this draft outside of Spence, Rankins and may Nemkendeche.
I keep hanging onto Carroll’s words “we will see what the draft brings us” in terms of pass rush, but signing a vet makes sense. Even if they do, I’m have a hunch he won’t be a big name signing like Jackson.
There is value to zigging when others all zag — that’s how we got the LOB to begin with.
One thing I saw last night was a complete secondary. I don’t believe we can draft any old rookie and plug him in there. I would like to see lane resigned so he can compete with smith/seisay/farmer/reed/Simon. Guys who have been in our system a while and possibly have our technique down. If someone hasn’t developed we will continue to have a hole on one side. Even with a serviceable 2nd corner it looked like the panthers were attacking talib.
The other thing I kept noticing was the sweet variety of pass rushing moves the outside rush had. Even though Irvin is versatile, but I don’t know if he brings the same type of rush that threatens tackles. It might not be the worse thing to see Irvin walk and bring in someone with a full tool belt of moves for passing down rushes. Perhaps we made Irvin a jack of all trades who is good at a lot of things but not great at anything. And perhaps we need someone who is just great at the rush. So like rob has talked about, replace Irvin with 2 people.
I agree with this. Denver had a speed rush from the outside that reminded me of the Hawks two years ago, but that we didn’t see that much of this past year. The pocket was simply collapsing from the moment the ball was snapped. The Hawks flashed that kind of intensity rarely. Seems like we need some more speed, or as Naks8 points out, a little more technique…
We need he mauler at left guard. Josh Garnett is that man. We can afford to let Sweezy walk because, well, he stinks. He’s better than Britt, but who isn’t? Draft a tackle in one, Garnett in 2-3. You can’t find that pass rush in DT in this draft, unless someone just comes out of nowhere and even then, he would be a massive developmental project. I think our pass rush is better than average, but it’s not elite. What can you do, though? If the players aren’t there and the cap room is small… Wilkerson would be great, but he’s expensive and more of a 3-4 end for the jets.
One key point in this game was how dirty Talib is and how that affected Carolina. Brown and Ginn were terrified all game. Talib is a piece of crap but he’s the type of player that helps you win. He reminds me a lot of Browner back in 2012-2013.
We need kam to be the hammer again. His hits throw receivers off their game.
Did we watch the same game. Talib gets penalized for a legitimate tackle. Then he gets penalized for trash talking on the sideline with another player – no pushing or head butting – shouldn’t that at worst be penalties for both players?
What I saw was a lot of contact and holding on both teams secondary. But the refs weren’t calling it, except for the hold in the end zone in Denvers favor.
He nearly pulled Corey Brown’s head off his shoulders, and then after the game said he did that on purpose.
The Broncos were gifted at least 5 plays by the refs, some of them potentially game changing. Add to that many non-calls. Add to that idiotic mistakes by the Panthers.
No, I will not congratulate the Broncos. Credit to their D, obviously, but the rest of their performance, and the assistance of the officials, nullifies any noise about “greatest ever” anything.
Wait, what? What were these 5 plays? I must have missed them.
Rob, any chance the Hawks bring Jaye Howard back? they see to prefer using outside FAs on the DL rather than using high draft picks. Obviously they drafted him so they must have liked him. Although he blew up this season so he might be too expensive.
I can see him being overpaid to be fair.
My Post SB / Pre Combine 2016 7 Rd Mock
R1 —.Shon Coleman (OL, Auburn)- Perfect pick for the Hawks and would be the starter at LG or RT day #1
R2 — Nick Martin (C, Notre Dame)-An instant starter who provides consistency, power and technique. If Washington take Ryan Kelly then Martin should fall to us. If not an LB might be the pick here. Like Jones out of LSU.
R3 — Chris Jones (DT, Miss St.)-Currently projected in 3rd -4th round but I think he will rise after combine. If he is there he would be a great addition to line and could develop into a solid interior pass rusher.
R3 — La raven Clark (OT, Tx Tech)- I have seen him graded anywhere from 1st rd to UDFA. If he is here with our 3rd Rd comp you have to take a shot. With his frame and athletiscm you could have a true starting LT in a couple of years.
R4 — Deiondre Hall (CB, Nothern Iowa)-I don’t care if he is raw and has terrible technique. He is long, fast, cocky and the longest wingspan I have seen from a CB in years. With that speed and length Pete will turn him into a probowler in 2-3 years. He may go a lot earlier than this but if not what a steal IMO. Vol 12 I know you hate this pick. For anyone but the Hawks maybe but he will thrive at Long CB U.
R5 — Kenyan Drake (RB, Alabama)-Elite speed and game changer in special teams. Needs to learn to block and blitz pick up but will be used for gadget plays and Special Teams year #1. Gives the hawks another dynamic weapon. I would prefer Dixon, Collins or Perkins but they are all gone by the end of Rd #3 Drake give us a pass catcher to go with Rawls and Michael for one dynamic backfield group.
R6- Paul McRoberts (WR, Southeast Miss) He is tall 6-3 and appears to have great hands and route running. If he was at a big scholl would likely be a 3-4 round pick. He would be a great replacement for Kearse.
R7 — Justin Zimmer (DT, Ferris St.)
Big time project but incredible athlete and Sparq freak. Why not take a shot on a potential inerior pass rusher in Rd #7. If not they take an LB like Freney for depth and special teams.
R7 — Ronald Blair III (DE, Appalachian State)
Versatile pass rusher. Lives in the backfield. Blair and Zimmer would give us two grteat developmental pass rushers who might be hard to keep if they don’t make the 52 man roster.
UDFA -Travis Feeeney, Vernon Adams
Love this draft, but I would be surprised if these players are available. Jones will probably go in the 2nd, Martin in the late 1st early 2nd and Blair will picked on day 2 would be my guess.
I just went off where guys were currently projected. I agree Jones will like move into the 2nd after the combine.
Yes you probably should just pick a LB in round 2, or say Martin/Kelly in round 2. One of those guys will be available.
I like a lot of your picks. Seahawks need more of a southern influence, Chris Jones and Paul McRoberts are interesting
Is mcroberts a big upgrade from Kevin smith or kasen Williams or Douglas McNeill? Seems like a similar player, but maybe you have the scoop on him. If we draft wr I’d like to see someone who can return either punts or kicks too.
I would be thrilled if their draft played out this way.
The SB doesn’t make me change my mind on the draft. Improve in the trenches. My first 4 picks prior to SB were OC/OG/DT/DE (no specific order) and they still are. Keep the pocket safe for Wilson and more pass rush (with more inside). If the Hawks can get Spence and Day (1st and 3rd), get a G and C in 2nd and 3rd (Dahl and Allen).
DE Bennett/Avril/Marsh/Spence/Day/Rubin/Hill/Clark (Bennett/Avril/Clark/Spence on passing downs)
OL Gilliam/Dahl/Allen/Glowinski/Bailey
Hard to argue against using all four of those picks on the trenches (although above I would be quite okay with veteran FA OL and only one early OL pick with the remaining three early picks for the defense).
Post Super Bowl / Pre-Combine Free Agent Plan (Taking my previous Mock draft into account.)
Retire
Marshawn Lynch (The Beast will be missed but the $6.5 mil in cap space appreciated)
Resign
-Jermey Lane (2 years 6 mi w/ $3 mil cap hit) Short Term deal and let him hit the market after a couple of solid years as a starter. Then he could get Maxi $ as he would still be young
-Attya Rubin- Younger than Mebane and more active this past year (3 years 10 mil w/ 3 mil cap hit)
-Shead (1 yr RFA deal)
-Bailey (1 yr RFA deal)
-Lewis (1yr RFA deal)
-Tufuku (1yr RFA deal)
-Michael (1 yr RFA deal)
Total $12-15 mil cap hit
Let walk
-Irvin (to much money tied up at LB)
-Mebane (unless he will come back on a cheap short term deal)
-Kearse (3rd WR and not worth more than $2mil per) Russ does like him though so this one could be tricky.
-Okung (injury and cost) One year deal for 5 mil is an option with injury perhaps but unlikely.
-Sweezy (love his nasty but just not good enough to justify a multi year deal) I think his market will not be great so they may get him to resign cheap who knows. I still think Glowinski is better option at RG.
-Jon Ryan (lets get a young kicker on min deal and use the cap space elsewhere) He is a Canadian so this was a hard one for me.
Free Agent Targets
#1 Malik Jackson DT-Den 5 years 40 mil $8mil cap Hit
#2 Evan Mathis LG-Den 3 years 12 mil $4 mil Cap Hit
#3 Ben Watson TE -NO 2 years 4 mil $2 mil Cap Hit
#4 Veteran 3rd Down Back – 1 yr vet min deal
#5 Phil Loadholt (if cut by Vikings) 1 yr/ $2 mil prove it deal
Total $17 mil cap hit
Extend / Restructure
-Michael Bennet -Lets get him locked up and extended and avoid any off season controversy for on of the best DL in the league
-Doug Baldwin- Lets get Doug resigned to lead our WR for the next 5 years.
????
Kam Chancellor -Either give him a new deal and make him happy to get back to being a leader or trade him. Lets not have a situation like last year that basically ruined the start of the year.
I have always liked the idea of drafting young defensive players, as opposed to getting them in free agency.
I like the idea of tabbing into the open market for offensive players, especially the OL in the case of our team as it enters the 2016 off-season.
Players don’t take as long to develop on the defensive side of the ball, whereas on offense there is more timing and things of that nature so it takes a little longer.
I’d disagree a bit there bobbyk. I think there’s a very long and serious learning curve for all but the best defensive line prospects transitioning to the NFL. And I think that’s a big reason why Seattle has used the veteran market.
It usually takes a few seasons for defensive lineman to fully develop, however both teams in this Superbowl have impressive DLs mostly built through the draft, and beyond one round. Wolfe, Jackson, Short and Ealy all drafted after round one, but drafted and developed. That’s why I favor to two prong approach of using FA and the Draft for lines on both side of the ball.
I like and agree with your plan a lot. I’d add Wisniewski to your FA list. A veteran center at a reasonable price who will make the right protection calls could be a massive improvement for the O line. I’d rather have that than a talented rookie who doesn’t always know what he’s seeing and won’t make the right calls in critical situations.
I think Lane is also very unlikely to be back unless it’s the kind of prove it deal you suggest. But that’s a pipe dream. He’s going to get $5 million from a team in need of a corner.
Completely agree about Bennett, Baldwin and Chancellor. They should be the at the very top of the off season priority list. You have to be right from within first.
Unless I misunderstand, how is it possible to spend $12-15M resigning SEA’s FA/RFAs, then spend another $17M signing new FAs, when the total amount available for any and all FAs is only $18M?
How is there only $18m? That # was thrown out after we sign all our own URFA and did not include the cap space from Lynch. We should have $18 mil to spend in free agency assuming we sign all our URFA.
My understanding is the $18M is all the cap space remaining to sign any UFA, regardless of whether they’re currently on the roster or not. That means only $18M to sign any of Okung, Irvin, Lane, Kearse, Rubin, Mebane, Sweezy or any other UFA in the NFL.
Also, Davis Hsu has confirmed the $18M includes cap savings from Lynch’s retirement.
Yes, it’s $18M unfortunately. I would love for them to have the luxury of some new free agent signings. Ain’t gonna happen. I also don’t see much in terms of trade opportunities either.
So they have $18 mil in cap space not $31? I know they have rookies, rfas and practice squad so tht means they really have less than $8 mil to spend if you are right.
If that is the case then we won’t be very active at all in free agency. Where did the $30+ mil in cap space come from?
The $18M is after everything else is paid – including enough for all the current contracts, plus this year’s draft class, the RFAs like Lewis, Shead, CMike, etc., and the PS.
The only thing it doesn’t factor are UFAs. That’s the whole problem – only $18M to sign anyone. I still think SEA can be active in FA, they’ll just have to be looking in the bargain basement section.
Yup. They’ll have to go after Tony McDaniels, Breno Giacomini’s of the league. And guys coming off injuries or something.
That’s alright though. They find a diamond in the rough every year when it comes to FA.
Trevor — they have over $30m. But when you factor in ERFA’s, FA’s earning sub $2m, PS and IR plus draft picks — they essentially have around $18m to spend on their seven free agents likely to earn over $2m APY (Okung, Sweezy, Irvin, Mebane, Rubin, Lane, Kearse) or bring others in. There won’t be a spending spree.
Ok thanks that makes a lot more sense!
Not really Trevor.
Hsu’s estimation was 18M after signing some of the RFAa and ERFAs plus rookie class, PS and IR. It included Lynch departure.
The gross number is 15-16M after IR, PS and rookie class. Add Lynch cap – 6.5M or 9M(post june 1st) and start your plan.
Thanks
One thing lost in all this ‘need more pass rush’ talk is the fact that both Den and Car brought the blitz…a lot. The Olines were routinely trying to block one too many defenders, and the resulting sacks and fumbles were game-changing. When they didn’t land, they still had the desired effect as both Peyton and Cam’s head were on a swivel.
One of my criticisms with the Hawks D (or coordinator) is the near-refusal to blitz. We want an aggressive, attacking D without committing to being aggressive and attacking. There was a time where maybe we had the D to pull it off, but no longer. Too many games allowing lead-footed Ben and Palmer to calmly sit back and pick apart our soft belly. Or watching Rodgers or Brady calmly step up in the pocket (avoiding our DEs who always just round the edge) to find their target.
I know you can’t always do it and sometimes you get beat, but I would gladly give up the occasional completion or two in the name of being the aggressive intimidating D we think we are. How much better would our (already amazing) LBs and DBs be if they knew the ball was coming out quick to avoid a blitz?
and we have so much speed on d. its just silly not to utilize that with blitzes
It used to be that we played the man free, single high and thirds so well that there was very little incentive to blitz. Our bet was that we would make you dink and dunk down the field and eventually you would make a mistake that would either cost you a turnover or force a punt.
Not only has our ability to play this defense been weakened with personnel turnover, but teams have added “seahawk beaters” into their play books. We have been exposed time and again by these plays. We looked more like the 2012 defense last year, than 2013 or 2014, I think we improved a ton down the stretch as we got rid of C.Williams, but we need both Wagner and Kam to play a lot better, to make that zone D work.
You’re right and that’s part of my point. We aren’t the same D we used to be, and naturally teams have become more adept at combating what we do. Are we still a dang good D? Yes. But I think we have the ability and the personnel to be so much more dangerous and help mitigate some of our cracks simultaneously
Agreed. Teams eventually adapt to beat you and you have to adapt as well. We can’t stay living in 2013 thinking the same thing that worked then will work now.
Agree, sdcoug. Nothing beats an effective blitzing defense that has the personnel to execute it.
That is a big if, you have to have the players, and the coordinators willing to commit to it.
I agree we shouldn’t overreact to the Panthers getting creamed. For one thing, I thought Carolina did a very poor job of scheming against the edge pressure. All of Cam’s dropbacks seemed to take a very long time. I suspect the lack of an effective short passing game really hurt them in this game. By contrast, the Hawks seemed to find one in the second half of the season (not coincidentally, around the same time the O-line started to look better).
That said, I think the real goal is to infuse draft talent into at least three spots on the O-line, with most of that talent going into the interior. But if a good tackle falls into their lap (like a Shon Coleman), they shouldn’t hesitate to solidify one of the edge spots.
To my untrained eye it appeared Carolina did next to nothing to give the offense any help against that pass rush. It’s like they didn’t even watch Brady get mauled in the AFCCG.
Exactly, cha. Carolina’s game planning and adjustments were among the worst I’ve ever seen in a big game. Cam’s immaturity and flaws were badly exposed, and Mike Shula didn’t do anything to stop the unraveling.
Agreed. Almost none of the misdirection running game that made them so lethal in the regular season.
Von Miller made Mike Remmers look like Justin Britt.
Sorry but I could not watch this game and be thankful we were not in it. Denver would have killed Wilson and we would be looking for a QB to draft. Carolina’s line much better than ares and they were beaten badly. Agree with most we need to sure up both lines in FA/draft
You can’t take every game as an absolute. This is the same Denver defense who blew a 27-10 lead at Pittsburgh in week 15. This is the same Denver defense that came close to being the #4 seed in the AFC. They were great. Dominant. But they weren’t unbeatable. This Seahawks team wouldn’t have lost to them last night. No way. Our defense would have shut that Broncos offense down big time. While their defense was great, we would have gotten them, too. We would have won last night something like 14-10 or 17-13. Nevertheless, it didn’t happen and now the mission to make it to SB51 begins. Fix the OL and add some pass rush and we should be good to go (keeping Lane in that scenario would be nice).
Denver handed Carolina SEVERAL opportunities. And there were multiple downs where Cam had plenty of time to make a throw. Their defense was very good and disciplined, playing a numbers and old’s game, betting that Cam would not be able to string effective completions together. And they were right.
I have no doubts we would have beaten Denver, the same way we used to beat the good SF team and Carolina too. You’ll get enough chances against them. And their offense can be contained.
I agree Bobby. You cannot take games in absolute. I remember only two years ago when Philadelphia goes into Dallas and destroys them by 23 points. Two weeks later, Dallas goes into Philadelphia and beats the Eagles by 11.
The moment was too big for Carolina. They played terrible. Overthrown passes to receivers that were wide open. Dropped passes. Presnap penalties. They put themselves in so many bad situations that it would have been a surprise if Denver’s defense had not been dominant. Especially with two weeks to prepare.
Then, take the situation where Seattle had two straight cross country flights for 10am games where wake up call is 4:30am PST. It was a recipe for disaster for Seattle.
Now, this is not to make an excuse because Seattle lost the game and put themselves in a bad situation by not playing better earlier in the Season.
Frankly, I think Seattle is already better than both Denver and Carolina, and Vegas agrees, as NE, Pittsburgh and Seattle have been installed at the favorites in 2016 at 8 to 1.
Agreed.
Denver’s D is undeniably good. But best ever? Why is it that everyone forgets that the Broncos did not exactly dominate the regular season. The last three games? Pittsburgh was gimpy and not that great anyway. The Patriots were also injured, and it took overtime to squeak by them (and if the Pats were healthy, they would have taken home field in the playoffs). Yesterday, they beat a team that was not ready for a Super Bowl.
They do not compare to the 1980s Bears or Giants, or the SB Ravens, or the Seahawks. Not to mention the defenses of the 1960s Packers, the 1970s Steelers, Cowboys, etc. etc.
I bet we would have run out with the same offensive gameplan as Carolina – run up the middle and then let Wilson get killed on 2nd and 3rd and long.
The difference would have been Russell’s far superior recognition. Cam made no adjustments, kept trying the same things that failed. He had opportunities and blew them. He didn’t step up into the pocket. There were open lanes to run, he didn’t take them. He blew a bunch of handoffs. He played almost languidly. Stood there like a statue for the pass rush.
That is why I am so frustrated with the Broncos win. They were so fortunate to face a not ready for prime time team.
Maybe in the first half. The difference is that the Seahawks usually make good adjustments at halftime. If the Hawks had been playing, and had come into the 2nd half down 16 to 7, I would not have been nervous. I know we would have a new plan and that it would be effective. Has our offense with Wilson ever been shut out in the second half? I can’t remember a time.
I think the Seahawks would have beat the Broncos if we played yesterday. And our defense played great vs Cam and the Panther offense except for a couple wonkey plays that represent anomalies, not the norm. Cam was destroyed by outside pass rush yesterday. If DEs aggressively rush Russ, he will beat them with scrambles. That’s why DEs usually play contain vs Russ. Let’s improve our GCG and DT talent and make a run in 2016! Our CB stable is full of young, indoctrinated talent. Players will emerge that represent a big improvement over Cary Williams.The Seahawks might field their best team ever in 2016!
I agree that we’ll see 5-6 guys already on the roster step up big time and become key pieces of this team.
I don’t see any reason to get caught up in the SB hyperbole.
Seattle has a lot of great pieces. And in truth, this season really played out a lot like the 2013/2014 seasons. We played a lot of close games, just as before but seemed unable to make the game sealing plays as often as we had in previous years.
We might think us unlucky. But I can’t even go that far. Because certainly we were fortunate to beat Detroit here at home. And we were ridiculously fortunate to emerge from Minnesota with a playoff victory. So Seattle got it’s fair shakes with critical breaks.
The only thing I can see that’s truly different between the teams in 2012/13 and today, is that we’re missing the edgy/physical presences we had previously. Gone are many of the players that really set the tone of physical toughness that marked those early teams:
1. Browner
2. Maxwell
3. Giacomini
4. Tate
5. Bryant
6. Lynch
This is a draft where it’s easy to wring our hands and worry about which players can produce impact plays. And that debate will continue to rage. But this draft does have something that this team really has not replenished well. And that’s guys that provide toughness and attitude.
Especially in the trenches on both sides of the line. This is a draft where a team that really does value toughness can get whole in a hurry. If we’re looking at game changing athleticism — it could be elusive. And that prerequisite is really looking to be difficult to find in this class. But I personally don’t think we have to reload with those kinds of guys. I think we already have those guys on this roster.
We need some role playing/complementary pieces. We need to replenish that edge that our 2012/13 teams had. Those kinds of players still make an impact. And I think this draft is a really good one to inject that component into this team.
It’ll be interesting to see how the UFA signing period unfolds. To see what kind of changes are made that will affect how the draft board falls for us.
The Seahawks were fortunate in those years too. Remember the Sherman pick 6 against Houston? What about the Tampa Bay game that year?
Every team needs luck or some breaks to win a championship. Your not just gonna thump everyone.
The pick 6 against Houston and the TB game showed their resolve, grit, fight, and play making abilities more than anything. Just like ‘the tip’ against SF in the NFCC. Big time players make big time plays in big time moments or situations.
and there was the goal line stand against St Louis.
There has also been a loss of toughness in Kam Chancellor and Sherman. Yes I dare say it – They are both getting older and slower and less physical. It isn’t a big difference but neither is the same player as two years ago.
Maybe Kam… but Sherman is 100% at the top of his game.
I disagree. Sherman was still good, but considerably softer this season. Gave up plays he would not have blown a few years ago, some of them big. Having to worry about Cary Williams, having to play some slot, Kam, etc. made it for difficult, but physically, I think Sherm has lost a step.
Sherman has been living off his reputation for awhile. QBs that have challenged him have done okay. Heck he left his man to cover someone else and got burned for big yardage at least twice this year. The Rogers long cross field pass should never have been completed.
Sherman played just fine. Expectations for him have become a little unfair.
I agree. I actually think Sherman did a more consistent job in run support than I have seen out of him in previous years. People have studied his tape for several years. They know what match ups are hardest for him, yet he still performs at a high level. I wouldn’t compare his year to Chancellor’s performance this year.
Sherman, Bennett, Avril, and Thomas, IMO, largely kept this defense kept this defense in the upper echelon. If we would have lost any one of those 4 for any extended period of time, I think things could have really unraveled. That’s why I’m strongly in favor of continuing to build and add on that side of the ball.
Sherman is supposed to be one of the top shutdown corners in football. Expectations are always high. This season, there was a noticeable dropoff.
Big case of recency bias setting in here.
Few comments about this ‘top trio of corners’ denver have after they won the SB, let not forget that they had absolutely no answer to Antonio Brown, 3 weeks after we’d pretty much shut him down.
I disagree Steele. I thought he was excellent for the most part.
I agree with Rob, everyone gets burned in the NFL.. no one throws out a goose egg. The caliber of NFL WR/TEs and the “rules” in place to increase the scoring in the league… it is remarkable anyone can hold a team to 10 points (or less) in the SB.
We played a lot more Zone D this year because of the CB situation. With a stable full of young CB prospects that have been simmering away in Pete’s CB kitchen, Players will emerge in 2016 that allow us to play more man defense, which is suffocating in conjunction with our pass rush. Constant reliance on Zone D to cover for subpar CB play takes away that bully feel our defense had previously. It will be back in 2016!
Great defenses typcally regress the year after or for a year or two. It happens all the time.
There was a lack of trust this year on defense.
They’ll get back to being the best defense in the league. No worries for me.
I’m in agreement that the Zone D has hurt Seahawks. Every opponent knows what to expect and how to find those soft holes in the middle. Seahawks need to use a little man to man and throw in the blitz once in awhile to change it up.
I don’t think it’s realistic to count on finding an impact pass rusher or above-average LT sitting at 26. I’m pretty much in agreement that the big goals for the off season are (above all) fixing the online and shoring up the secondary depth.
To that end, I’d resign Okung. He’s going to be overpriced, but he going to be overpriced for a REASON: if you need a league average or better LT and don’t pick in the top – 5, he’s probably it. That leaves us most likely letting Sweez and Irvin walk and needing to find a guard/center combo.
I’d love to go Martin at center R1 and Dahl as a guard in R2. Then bench Britt and let Glow/Sokoli fight it out for the other guard spot.
Unfortunately, I think the big issue is and continues to be that the organization (Cable) continues to just suck while evaluating OL prospects. How different do our last two seasons look if we just sit and pick Joel Bit ont forfor example? Instead we got the human turnstile Britt and a receiver who contributes nothing at all on the rare occasions when he’s actually healthy.
Wow! That draft class from 2011 is unreal.
I really do think that the 2017 draft could resemble that. It’s pretty loaded if most of the prospects come out and perform like they should.
One of the best ever. 2017 is on track to look similar but it is still early. Lots of Rbs and pass rushers for sure.
Still too early to say for sure, your right.
Some really good CBs and DTs next year too.
I’m sorry guys, but that game was trash.
The offensive lines were bad, multiple plays left on the field, drops, slow RBs, bad QB play, and countless other examples.
All of a sudden eveyone realizes that defense wins championships and pass rushers are the 2nd most important position on the football field?
I’m in agreement that Seattle will need to replace Irvin most likely and add another rotational pass rusher. But, this class lacks ‘Seahawky’ pass rushers. There’s some good ones, but I don’t see great EDGE guys in this class. At least not early on.
BTW, your biggest need doesn’t have to be your 1st round or overall pick.
You don’t like Fackrell at #26 to play a Clay Matthews/USC role for Pete? I think he can be that impact guy every bit as Matthews was as a rookie. I think if he’s used the way Pete used Matthews that Fackrell could be a double digit sack as a rookie.
Personally, I don’t really care if there aren’t many pass rushers available at #26 as long as there is one. If you are a team and get that one guy who will get sacks, then it doesn’t really matter if the draft supposedly doesn’t have any pass rushers (aside from who draft Spence much earlier).
If a draft is about “10 deep” at a position, but you don’t get anyone of them, does it really matter? Or if a draft only has 1 or 2 good players at a position and you get one, then you don’t care that it wasn’t a deep draft for that spot. If anything, you laugh at everyone else for not getting what you got.
Personally, I don’t think Fackrell is a fit for every DC, but I can totally see Pete taking him and he having a significant impact as a rookie.
If you are right and he could be the next Clay Matthew I would be all for it Bobby but when I watch Frackel I don’t see anything resembling Clay Matthews.
I’ve watched his 2013 game vs. USC and 2015 game vs. Colorado State quite a few times now (that’s all I have to go on) and I see an amazing athlete in terms of what I envision from how the Seahawks would/could use him and really like what I see. Some of the things I see as a weakness for him on tape is something I don’t care if he’s weak at (like awareness in zone coverage in space). It would be like saying that I don’t like Russell Wilson because he can’t kick 50 yard FGs. It doesn’t matter. It’s not relevant for how Pete would/could use him. I see a guy who would be disruptive and would get to the QB.
To be fair, Pete said he didn’t think Clay would end up being the player he has become in the NFL.
I like Fackrell. At 26, it would depend who’s still on the board.
I would cringe at that pick but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Yeah, I didn’t come away from yesterday’s game thinking we have to rethink our defense. Except for a few outlier plays that our D rarely gives up and some gifts from Russ, our Panthers matchup could have easily been a much different story. And Denver’s outside in pass rush would have likely been coached to pull back the reins and play contain vs Russ. Our achilles heal is pass rush up the middle vs matadors at the Guard positions.
Rob, what do you make of BYU’s DL Bronson Kaufusi?
Love Baylor CB Xavien Howard. One of the better Seahawk type corners, but there ain’t no way he lasts until round 4. Right?
Not watched enough of Kafusi — just one game. I can see Howard going R2-3.
Really like Howard a lot and think he will be a riser.
Yeah- I worried that was gonna happen.
Jalen Ramsey, Eli Apple, William Jackson, Xavien Howard, Artie Burns are my favorite Seahawky corners in this draft.
Rob, you like (local boy) ND CB Keivarae Russell?
Agree, Volume12. The game was indeed trash. I am struggling to recall a less worthy SB QBs than yesterday’s. Manning, a corpse, barely did his job. Cam, completely amateurish. Clownball all day.
Both of Manning’s SB wins were gifts by his defenses in both cases. And also in both cases, he faced crap QBs in Rex Grossman and Cam. What an undeserving “greatest ever’ QB.
I think Kony Ealy and some of the Panthers D should get some credit for almost saving the game.
But I digress.
Given that post-SB is always about copycat and overreacting/aping whatever won the SB just watched, I predict that it will place a new premium on pass rushers. Individually as well as conceptually. Every pass rusher will point to Von Miller and say “see? now pay me”.
Therefore, Bruce Irvin is more likely gone. Bennett will be more aggressive about a new deal. Free agents will be more expensive. The draft board will shift upwards for pass rushers.
There will also be a desperate run on offensive linemen by teams afraid of facing pass rushes.
So on top of an ugly crap game, and annoying Manning 24-7, we get the bad result of distorted offseason priorities.
Another unfortunate result from the SB is the revival of the Broncos propaganda that “if Von Miller and the other injured guys had played in the SB, the Seahawks would have lost”. So the Seahawks were one shot flukes. In the eyes of Broncos fans.
Ealy, only player EVER to have 3 sacks and an INT in the SB. Borderline MVP, even though he was on losing team.
we talked about him plenty before he was drafted
Jeff Risdon posted a 2 round mock on Draftbreakdown. He has SEA taking Spriggs in R1 (Shon Coleman and Sheldon Rankins both available) and Nkemdiche in R2.
Ehh. Would take Rankins or Coleman over Spriggs all day long.
Me too! Both would be ideal Hawks picks IMO.
Still can’t believe Newton pulled back instead of trying to recover that ball. I have watched the play over and over trying to come up with a reason or excuse for it but there is nothing that makes sense. That play summed up his whole mental mindset for that game IMO. He looked deflated from the start.
Glad we have Russ! He is a little weird but he never gives up and is always positive. You could not have a QB with better body language than Wilson. Even when his OL is almost getting him killed. Cam on the other hand seemed to get down on everyone including himself and just give up.
That moment was baffling. Did Cam think he was in a Brady Tuck Rule situation, that it was a forward pass? That it was a dead ball? Even so, it was mind boggling that he did not instinctively jump on the ball.
It simply adds to the long list of amateurish tendencies and terrible technical flaws that mar his game. Is there a QB with a worse throwing motion and less control? No recognition in the pocket. Rivera and Shula should have stopped the mess way early.
Cam was full of himself, probably expected an easy fun time.
The Cardinals set the Panthers up…… rolled over like a dead fish. they got caught up in their press clippings and got smashed in the mouth.
When I see some of Irvins tweets I get the sense he truly wants to stay a Seahawks and they are like his family. He can be a bonehead at times but I truly hope they can figure out a way to bring him back because I think he wants to be a Hawk and that means a lot.
I think the tweet about Atl last year was n emotional guy lashing out a little because he was hurt that they did not pick up his option. Hope they can sign him to a reasonable deal that works for everyone. He is a unique athlete for sure.
Keeping Irvin makes a lot of sense considering SEA want to improve the pass rush. They’ll be in a much better position to draft an impact DPR prospect than they would be if they have to replace Irvin as well.
If they do keep him I would love to see them use him more as a true LEO type pass rusher.
It seems like Irvin was thinking the same thing last offseason when he added a bunch of weight.
But keeping him gives SEA the ability to let the draft come to them on defense. They could go with a LB-moneybacker type prospect like Jones or Striker or Killebrew and shift Irvin more to a traditional DE/LEO role, or keep him at SAM and look for a DE/DT-type like Ward or Tapper or even Day. Or they could just go best DPR like Fackrell.
Hoping Irvin stays myself.
As ya’ll said, letting him go doesn’t reall improve the pass rush.
Then again, they might not have a choice.
I’ll say it again. I don’t care if he’s 29. DeMarcus Ware showed yesterday that pass rushing is more than just youth.
How about this:
At the end of last season, Ware was 33 years old and clearly washed up. He was getting wrath for being a washed up has been on Broncos boards (Manning, too).
Then they hire a horrible head coach who just so happens to be one of the greatest defensive coordinators I’ve ever seen (Wade Phillips; horrible head coach, great defensive coordinator) and the Broncos defense, with mostly the same players, got a lot better.
The difference between Ware and Irvin is significant though. When Ware was in his late twenties, he was arguably the greatest pass rusher on the planet. Skills naturally decline but he’s still good.
Irvin at 29 never was among the elite pass rushers in the league or on his own team. He’s not going to improve. He is who he is, which is fine, but skills decline. They just do.
I think Irvin was and is a failure at Leo. That’s why they moved him to SAM (except on most third downs). With that being said, Irvin was NOT a failure as a first round pick. He just became good in a role they didn’t expect him to. No shame in that, but to hope he moves back to Leo doesn’t improve that position that hasn’t been good since Clem left.
I’d like to see him come back, but at no money close to Vinny Curry. That kind of money should be invested on the OL, not defensive players who are 29 and never of Pro Bowl caliber to begin with.
Agree on Malik Jackson. Reminds me of Jason Jones in stature and quickness, who Seattle picked up for a season (and who is a free agent again). If Broncos spend big to keep Von and others from leaving, a possible cut could be Ryan Clady. Was out last year but when healthy he is a top 5 tackle. Familiar with the ZBS and a quick footed pass blocker. An upgrade over Okung, possibly even financially if people doubt his health. Seattle should be aggressive if he is cut.
He has missed the SB game 2 of 3 years due to injury. I’m not sure he would be an upgrade or sidegrade from Okung.
Keep drafting for the future of this team, the only way to get the current players including Marsh who also needs to step up is through coaching and most important also through our philosophy of competition, draft well let them compete for positions on this team the players who want it the most will rise up and make the most of their opportunity, there are a few who have been on this team for a while that need to go due to too many injuries we cant have people taking up spots on this team who are not gonna make it, we cant keep players who are often injured cause that type of bug is hard to shake, lets keep winning! Win For Ever!:) LOL!
With the Saints shedding contracts (Jahri Evans today, Unger suspected soon), I’m wondering if Seattle doesn’t go with some veteran presence on the OL, allowing them to go aggressively for OT/DL via the draft.
This draft should have several really decent OG/OC prospects in the R3/R4 range. Adding immediate veteran help would smooth that learning curve considerably.
From a roster build standpoint — it makes sense. Consider the following:
1. Cable presumes that all rookies need to be retaught everything. So getting a rookie in the draft — if we hit on one — may as well be getting a player for 3 years. Because that first year is going to be a wash.
2. Projects along the interior have been hit/miss. Sokoli we kept all year but Pete seemed resigned to thinking he was a ways to go before getting on the active roster. Britt needs to not be starting. Glowinski looks like he’s at least ready for more. Lewis is a stopgap. Sweezy may/may not be in the offing.
When Seattle has sought to improve the team, they generally fill one need with FA, and focus the draft on what wasn’t covered. This draft has a lot of good talent at both OL/DL. Getting solid help at one (OL or DL) helps to alleviate pressure early in the draft.
Given that OL seems to be such a long term ramp up process for us, it doesn’t follow that if we pick OL early and/or often that we’ll get relief in 2016. It looks very much like we need some bridge talent on the OL even if we draft interior guys.
If Evans and Unger are on the street, then the landscape of quality amongst the street FAs would appear to favor OL significantly. Seattle has shown it’s smart and flexible by chasing quality on the FA market where it resides.
“Saints shedding contracts (Jahri Evans today”
Well Rob, you won’t have to swim the Atlantic now. 🙂
I wonder if they could get Evans to play LG and Unger to play C in ’16? The thing with Evans is this – he’s always been a RG but he has the size that Cable wants in his LGs. Also, if Evans and Unger were together, not only would they be an improvement, but they would have built in chemistry since they have spent this past season in New Orleans together (granted, Evans was to Unger’s right last year, where he’d most likely be a LG in Seattle).
Just thinking out load… Cable probably wouldn’t want Evans because he’s already been coached too much and would be set in his ways and he seems not to want players who are good either. Evans is both, although he’s getting long in the tooth. I’m obviously kidding that Cable doesn’t “want” good players, but the point is that he seems he’d rather be stubborn than anything. If a guy is good and better than what you have… get him. Can’t be worse than Britt at LG.
Just read a glowing article on Ungers play this past year, perhaps the reason Evans got cut was because Unger was so good.
Maybe he’s staying.
Thinking of Jahri Evans in Seattle makes me think of Mike Wahle in Seattle.
oy
Why not sign Josh Norman? Crazy?
Franchise Tag. Giving up lots of money and two first round picks. Not worth it.
Yeah it’s crazy. You can’t spend that much on a secondary:
14.8m – Sherman
14m+ – Norman
9.9m – Thomas
6.1m – Chancellor.
That’d be something like 45m for that position group. That’s almost a third of your total cap.
We have 9 draft picks.
I feel better going young on the OL.
Allowing our Glowinski/Sokoli/Poole/Bailey/Gilliam resources to compete with 3 new draft picks would be my choice…
I’d like Martin in Round 1, Dahl or a Guard in 2/3/3/4, then a late OL pick… We keep Patrick Lewis for backup, and let Okung/Sweezy walk.
Seattle’s big mistake last year was expecting themselves(coaches) to be able to FLIP a DL into a C, Nowak, in such a short period of time. I think Cable/PC got a bit caught in believing their own hype… They couldn’t do it that well, that fast!
I think a Rich pool of OL, with no big contracts could work… Gilliam/Bailey have played decent for Okung, so Okung isn’t worth a Big contract, especially since he has NEVER played a complete season…
I know it is risky, but then we could spend on Defense again, and get back to bullying the opponent! We may have been the ‘best scoring defense’ this year again…4 years straight…but we were not the best or most intimidating at all…that team just won a ring.
Nowak I realize didn’t flip… got confused.
Yes he did. He was an all-conference defensive lineman at Western Michigan. Granted, that was the year before last, but your point was right.
Gonna miss Beastmode. Don’t care what anyone says, he’s the main reason the Hawks became world champs.
There’s a whole lotta toughness leaving right there that’ll be ever so tough to replace