Colby Cameron could be one to watch in the late rounds of UDFA
The best thing about the combine for me is discovering players you haven’t focused on. You see a guy run a great forty, make the most of his chance to shine in the drills and then you go and dig out the tape. I remember a year ago seeing a ripped Robert Turbin running well in Indianapolis, finding a couple of videos immediately and being impressed enough to believe he could be a third round pick for this team. Low and behold, he ended up in Seattle (albeit in round four).
It’s not always positive though. Take Georgia’s Cornelius Washington. He ran a 4.55 at 6-4 and 255lbs. He had 36 reps on the bench press and a 39-inch vertical jump. Basically, that’s first round athleticism. So why did he only have 0.5 sacks in 2012? You watch the first video below and realise why. Never has the term ‘looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane’ been more appropriate. Sure, the game against Buffalo is only one performance. Yet that’s the game where he recorded his solitary half-sack for the season. It’s hard to justify even a 7th round grade on that evidence, even with the upside.
In other cases there won’t be a negative outcome. Over the next 7-10 days I’m going to be studying the following prospects. I wanted to put out a video of each to get us started today. Take a look for yourself and let us know what you think.
Cornelius Washington (DE, Georgia) vs Buffalo
He made headlines at the combine with a superb show of speed, power and athleticism. I’m sure I wasn’t the only person saying, “Cornelius Washington? Isn’t that the guy from Georgia?” Nobody really expected to see what happened in Indianapolis and given his ideal size and speed combination, he appeared to be a brilliant LEO. Yet you watch the tape below and think… when’s he going to start trying? It’s incredibly disappointing.
Sio Moore (LB, Connecticut) vs Rutgers
With 7.5 sacks last season and a further 6.5 the previous year, it’s hard to ignore Sio Moore. The Seahawks need to find multiple ways to improve their pass rush and a naturally attacking WILL linebacker would be of some benefit. He’s not the fastest (ran a 4.65) but he is big, strong and athletic.
Mark Harrison (WR, Rutgers) vs three opponents
I don’t really know how I missed this guy. The presence of Brandon Coleman in the Rutgers line-up is pretty distracting, but Harrison also has a lot of attractive qualities. He’s a big target at 6-3 and 231lbs with 4.46 speed. My assumption when watching this video for the first time yesterday was he probably won’t have good hands or much playmaking ability. I was wrong. This guy is one to keep an eye on.
Jon Bostic (LB, Florida) vs Vanderbilt
I spent no time on Bostic during the season, mainly due to his position as a roaming middle linebacker. Yet as soon as he ran an unofficial 4.50 I felt obliged to add him to my list of targets. He was later downgraded to an official 4.61, but I’m going to recycle all the Florida tape I have and keep an eye on him.
Chris Gragg (TE, Arkansas) vs Ole Miss
I liked Gragg going into 2012 and thought he could have a bit of a break-out season. Then Arkansas decided to have a year off from taking football seriously and everybody paid the price as a consequence. He was raw in 2011 and even looked a little awkward at times. When you run a 4.50 at 6-3 and 244lbs however, you want to go back and check out the tape. So hear it is…
Sanders Commings (CB, Georgia) vs Alabama
When I watched the SEC title game, Commings stuck out like a sore thumb. He looked the part. Big and physical yet quick enough to shadow Alabama’s talented receivers. It was a superb display. As with all corners who weigh around 216lbs though, you worry about speed. Then he runs a 4.41. At just a shade under 6-0, he doesn’t have the natural length this team has looked for at the position. Yet Commings is intriguing as a mid-round option and could even convert to safety.
Trevardo Williams (DE, Connecticut) vs NC State
He lacks the height and length you’d prefer at the LEO (only 6-1) but it’s hard to ignore 4.57 speed at 241lbs. I’ve not spent any time studying Williams although I have a couple of Connecticut games to get through. One is a two-sack performance against NC State that you’ll find below. He’s Jamaican-born with a sprinters background.
Colby Cameron (QB, Louisiana Tech) vs Texas A&M
This is the guy who broke Russell Wilson’s NCAA record of 379 consecutive pass attempts without an interception. The Seahawks love mobile quarterbacks who can move the ball around the field and don’t turn it over. There’s a little Kirk Cousins to Cameron’s game and he had a prolific final season in college with 31 touchdowns and just five interceptions. No tape is available yet but he was throwing the ball nicely in Indianapolis. I’ve included a Quinton Patton video instead to get a glimpse of what he has to offer.
Zaviar Gooden (LB, Missouri) vs Syracuse
I’ve been meaning to watch Gooden for some time, but since his combine performance I’m even more determined to do so. He’ll probably be the first player I really study. With 4.47 speed he automatically screams ‘Seahawks’ and he’d make a natural fit at the WILL. He had 27 reps on the bench press too so he’s strong enough to take on blockers. Gooden’s stock is rising.
Matt Scott (QB, Arizona) vs Stanford
One of Kip’s favourite guys. Another big, athletic quarterback who might be able to come in on the cheap and backup Russell Wilson. He seems to have possible trade-value down the line too. Since his man-crush on Russell Wilson, if Kip likes a quarterback I’m going to make sure I take a closer look.
Corey Fuller (WR, Virginia Tech) vs North Carolina
Both Fuller and Virginia Tech team mate Marcus Davis impressed at the combine. There’s currently no tape for Davis available although I have two Virginia Tech games stashed to go back and look at. Fuller ran a 4.43 and while he doesn’t have amazing size at 6-2 and 204lbs, he’s a player I’ll be trying to learn more about.
Kerwynn Williams (RB, Utah State) vs Louisiana Tech
Seattle had some success with Utah State guys last year, why not go back to the well? Kerywnn Williams is small (5-8, 195lbs) but he has 4.48 speed and could end up being a kick return specialist with special teams upside. Leon Washington won’t keep going forever, after all.
I love the way you think, Kip.. I’m a huge fan of both Ryan Swope and John Simon. Have been all season. And I’ve also been singing the praises of Matt Scott since he torched UW in 2011 with a spot start for an injured Nick Foles. He’s raw as can be, but I think he would make an excellent developmental Qb in our system.
As far as the players listed, I hope we take a long and hard look at Mark Harrison and Chris Gragg. Harrison’s film that was posted last night is darn impressive. A big bodied receiver that our offense covets, and if he can be had with a 4th I say we jump all over that. Chris Gragg’s measurables are very exciting, and is also something our offense lacks. Zavier Gooden is the athletic Lber that I was hoping Kasheem Greene would be, at least as far as the combine testing goes. And Sanders Commings, yes please. Adding his size to our defensive backfield would be amazing.
Rob, you are the man! Thank you for all you provide us, this is awesome stuff as always!
Rob,
I mentioned before that Cornelius Washington caught my eye in the senior bowl prior to the combine. I’m just curious what your take is on that performance? Complete aberration? I don’t know whether you’ve watched that game specifically to scrutinize his performance yet or not. I googled 2013 senior bowl and Cornelius Washington, and found the article below. Apparently this guy Phil Savage who’s the exec. director of the SB game agrees with me that Washington played the best of the defensive linemen for the south team. But it goes on to say “he doesn’t expect the Bulldog to be the first defensive lineman taken from the South’s roster in April’s NFL Draft, with BYU’s Ziggy Ansah, Tennessee-Martin’s Montori Hughes and perhaps Washington’s Georgia teammate John Jenkins coming off the board before him.”
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/02/senior_bowl_review_cornelius_w.html
I didn’t notice him during the game I have to say, but I’ll see if I can get a look at the South defensive tape.
Cornelius has always been an enigma. Many thought he would replace Justin Houston, but then Jarvis Jones came along. He was recruited for a 4-3 defensive end, then Todd Granthem came along. He bounced around from outside lb to de. Every year, UGA fans thought “this” was the year CWashington was going to blow-up. That year never came. He never had a lot of production, but that was never his role. Granthem and others have mentioned this numerous times, JJones played the position that accumulates stats, CWashington doesn’t. JHouston put up stats, and so did JJones. A true sophomore will next year. It’s partly the scheme, partly the athlete. Washington wasn’t expected to put up big numbers in this scheme. He did the dirty work, and did so happily.
I’m not sure what CWashington will do in the pros, I’m not sure who does. If he does perform well, I don’t think it will be shocking. He will join a long list of GA players to underperform in college and have stellar NFL careers….Geno Atkins, Akeem Dent, D Ellerbe, Tim Jennings, Charles Johnson, DJ Ware, and Chris Clemons.
Thanks for the insight UGAHAWK.
To be fair, I watched him against South Carolina and he looked equally if not more underwhelming. I try not to put too much stock into the senior bowl. If anything it makes me go back and watch tape (much like the combine). And on a very talented Georgia defense, Washington looks horrible. Maybe he did play well in the Senior Bowl, but there are two real games I’ve seen now that he didn’t just underwhelm but looked like a practice squad player. He shows not explosion on tape, doesn’t drive blockers back, doesn’t use his hands, seems to turn his back to the defender constantly. I don’t know if it’s laziness or what, but he really looks terrible. Simply put, for a guy with his measurables he should not be that bad.
I just went back and watched it again. I wasn’t as wowed this time watching the whole game. He has a really nice stretch in the 2nd quarter though. I think that’s the entirety of what I saw the first time. I pasted the youtube link below for anybody who wants to take a look:
2nd Quarter:
At the 10 minute mark, he beats his man and gets blatantly held from behind.
6:55 he gets held again from behind after beating man.
5:05 he crushes the QB causing a fumble.
4:15 he pushes his man into the QB causing an interception.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74MLs9rVDVc
I had the same idea and luckily still had the Senior Bowl game on my DVR. I came away very impressed. Partially because every other video on him is so bad. At the Senior Bowl he actually looked quick off the ball and played with some fire. I guess the looming payday can be a good motivator. The tackle from Syracuse, Pugh only had two ways to stop him: tackle him or get help for a double team. It seemed like he was held every other play but still manged to move the QB if not sack him. He showed he could rip, bull rush or flat out speed rush. He even looked decent setting the edge against the run. Next to Ansah, I thought he was the second best DE in the game. Hunt, Jones and Buchannon all had their moments too.
The question is what does any of this mean for his future? Did he just not give a crap until there was $ on the line or did a switch flip and he just gets it now? I’m guessing his interviews will be the deciding factor on him.
There seems to be quite a few (raw with upside) Dline prospects in this draft.
Mark Harrison? (Never heard of him) But Heck YES! He looks like what PC/JS have been looking for. With good speed he also gets down field and behind the D well…
I’d be all over him in the 4th, or later if they know he would be there… Just add that catching TE, and we are golden! Gragg looks ok, but like you said, the team suffered this year…was hard to see him beyond that funk… Good athlete! Just wonder if Vance McDonald would be a better choice…
Gragg or McDonald folks? Rob?
I was seriously underwhelmed watching Vance McDonald.
I was wowed by his Combine performance. But after watching some of his film, I agree. There are better TEs who should be available at the same pick.
Rob,
I don’t watch enough TEs to judge their blocking to compare, but Gragg looked decent, as far as I could tell. For his size, speed he seemed to push his assignment back several yards on several plays, and I only saw him miss once or twice. How does he compare in that regard? Does it even matter so much if he’s used primarily as a receiver?
Second comment. I didn’t see Harrison drop a ball. Several bad throws, some of them well-defensed, but he seemed to routinely catch the ball away from his body and run people over. He looked an awful lot like a younger, faster BMW.
You posted a Quintin Patton video without any comment. Was that deliberate? He sure looked slick.
If he’s used as a joker as you expect at his size, it won’t matter too much. But as you say, he’s not a bad blocker so can get involved there. The Patton video was really to show Colby Cameron as there’s no Cameron tape out there. I’m going to keep studying Patton. Not blown away so far, looked like a mid rounder. But I may chance that assessment upon further review.
Ask any Rutgers fan about Mark Harrison and you’ll get an idea why he’s so under the radar. He’s their Jermaine Kearse. Typical Rutgers refrain: “Nova finally threw a pass that doesn’t look like a paper airplane! And Mark Harrison left the corner trying to pick up his jock! Whoo hoo touchdo- HARRISON GODDAMMIT HANG ON TO THE GODDAM FOOTBALL YOU SONOVA…!” This is followed by tears.
I started a thread about him on the Seattle PI forums a few days back lamenting this tragic shortcoming, but there’s always the hope that with solid coaching, maybe identifying if this is a technique or concentration issue, or maybe even an undiagnosed eyesight issue, he can overcome it.
Well i’d take the 6’3 230, 4.3 version of kearse over the real jermaine kearse currently on the team, so theres that
McDonald has stone hands.
McDonald out…Harrison and Gragg IN… kearse!? lol
So for a TE we seem to agree on the most…an Ertz, (maybe Eifert), Escobar or Reed, that seems to be our 2nd Round pick, no?? These four surely wouldn’t make it to round 3 at the 25th pick.
So if they leave prior to R2’s pick, and we didn’t go TE with #25, then Gragg…who else late on the TE side?
Toilolo? Kelce? Sims? Kasa? Rivera looked ok? the hurt but large Fauria??
I believe Seattle and PC/JS definitely DO want to make their TE position deadly to other teams, and super friendly to RW. So if not Round 2, then which of these left do you like Rob and the gang??
Oh Charlie! Hahahahahahahaha
Wait until UCLA’s pro day before deciding on Fauria. He’s got the assets: 6’7″ 255, 33.75″ arms, 10.9″ hands. Had 12 TD catches in 2012. Just like with Jones, I saw a lot of him last season.
After Ertz, I think he’s the best TE in the PAC-12. But judge for yourself. His best games were vs. NEB and STAN (he had a good game against CO too, but hey it’s CO…). Here’s his game vs. STAN. Be sure to watch his TD catch at the 2 minute mark. He’s not afraid to block either, though he could use a little coaching in that regard.
Oops here’s the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8xyJRjIPTk
A late round TE that I really like is TJ Knowles from Sacramento State. He was a transfer from South Florida. 6-8, 255lbs. And is expected to run in the 4.6-4.7 range. The one YouTube video I saw of him was mostly jump balls 40 yards down the field. The thing was, he was really good at it. High pointed the ball every time and caught it with his hands instead of letting it get to his body. He also caught a few screens and dig routes where he made a few guys miss.
I know it is a lower level of competition but how do you stop an athletic 6-8 catching the ball at it’s highest point? He could be what they hoped Evan Moore was going to be. Evan Moore sure as hell wasn’t. I’m still baffled at how bad he was.
Sounds like an interesting name to watch. Is he going to an area pro day? Those measurements sound like they can overcome low competition quickly. Does he block or is he strictly an athletic receiver?
It’s hard to find info on this guy. Kind of the definition of “under the radar”. Nfldraftscout.com has his pro day listed as March 20th. They don’t say where but he is their #18 rated TE. His NFLPA Bowl measurements were 6-7 1/2, 254lbs., 10 3/8 hands, 34 1/2 arms and 80 6/8 wing span.
The one video I found on him was from 09 when I’m guessing he was a freshman at Saddleback Junior College. He lined up at WR the whole time so when he blocked it was against DB’s. He gave a lot of effort and was pretty effective for being so tall. Again, very low level of competition. Just do a YouTube search for TJ Knowles and his JC tape is the first that pops up.
If anyone is going to see upside in an obscure prospect with elite measurables it is Seattle.
What about the other combine-shredder, Southern Miss LB Jamie Collins? I can’t decide if he’s just a better athlete than football player or had to many contain/dropback responsibilities to shine.
I’ve been wondering about Collins as well. Played a bunch of different roles, from DB, to LB, to “bandit DE,.” I wonder if it’s simply a matter of too much on his plate (which could be construed as bad if he can’t pick it up) or simply an Irvin-esque misuse of skills. It’s hard to quantify his level of explosiveness via his combine performance, but the size/speed ratio, and the tackles for loss, which seem to be a qualifier of disruption leave me wondering if he could be a WLB candidate in the 4th.
He seems to have ideal size and explosiveness to be a LEO. His coaches really praised his pass rush ability. His potential to drop on zone blitzes would be a plus too.
Cornelius Washington: it’s not necessarily fair to judge a player’s potential on 4.5 mins of film from one game, but that’s life.
And just like life can be at times, it’s rather sad to think that a guy with his athletic potential will never make it in the NFL. Why won’t he? Because the player I saw in that video just isn’t physical. He doesn’t like to hit, or get hit. He shied away from contact at every opportunity. He also lacked any hustle whatsoever (and since this is the only film I’ve seen of him, I suppose it’s possible that he just had an off day, or maybe he had the flu, or his breakfast wasn’t sitting well). Ironically, I thought he tracked the ball fairly well. For the most part, he was in its immediate vicinity at some point in the play, but since he never fully engaged (read: got physical) he was a non factor.
In the end you can look past the lack of hustle (unless that’s just his game). You can train him to get even stronger and faster. You can coach him to tackle better. You can teach him how to read a play as it develops. But you simply cannot coach him to hit if he doesn’t want to. He may be an elite athlete, but he’s in the wrong sport.
Maybe he just doesn’t like to play football. Without studying his game, that’s what the various comments seem to indicate.
The way he plays makes me think that, while he’s ok with contact itself, he doesn’t like IMPACT. Look at the way he initiates contact. Particularly in plays where he “rushes” the passer, he sort of cozies up to the blocker, and almost like a prize fighter late in the late rounds of a bout, leans into him and locks up. Then Washington maintains contact until the play is over; never once does he make an attempt to disengage and pursue. Often, it looks like he’s simply getting manhandled by the OT. But I don’t think that’s the case. A guy as big, strong and fast as he, and with arms as long as his, at the very least he should be able to move his blocker off his body. Even if his hand/arm technique is so completely lacking that he can’t actually shed the block, he should be able to create some space. Remember this is a guy who pumped out 36 reps on the bench. I contend that the reason he doesn’t even try to shed his blocker has nothing to do with whether or not he physically can do so, but rather because he has a dislike (aversion? fear?) of impact. Regardless of the reason though, he’s just not ‘Hawk material.
I’m all aboard the Zaviar Gooden and Kerwynn Williams trains. Gooden looks like the perfect WILL and we can probably get a little better value on him than the bigger name LB’s we’ve talked about on this blog all off-season. Kerwynn Williams is a playmaker in the Lamichael James mold and could supplant Leon at some point. I wonder if we drafted someone like him or Kenjon Barner if we would carry 4 RB’s, or let Leon go. He’s owed 1.5m this year with a 1m roster bonus.
Bostic is a monster and he plays a very physical brand of football. I don’t know where he fits on this team, as he looks more like an attacking 3-4 ILB. Mark Harrison looks like a very promising WR that could have an impact in a few years if he can develop into a more physical type of receiver. The lack of big receivers in this draft could mean someone takes a shot at him earlier than they should.
Looking forward to some good discussion on all these guys.
Great article, it’s really a fun time of year.
The guy I’d to see someone do some analysis on is Jamie Collins from Southern Miss. 6-3, 250, with 34 inch arms, 41.5 vertical, 139 broad, good times in his agility drills, and 10 sacks and 92 tackles last season. At the very least, he could be this year’s Korrey Toomer.
RE: Cornelius Washington – quite a disparity from the Houston tape Rob, and from what I saw in this highlight Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSD-XriyTQ. Granted it was the only video I watched of him, just doesn’t look like the same player.
Have you seen other game tape that discredits him as potential Leo?
No and I did qualify that in the piece. One game isn’t fair. But that one game left such a negative impression, I’d need to be really wowed elsewhere.
You can have a flu in one game. But if that’s the case with Washington, why didn’t he get any sacks the rest of the year?
Holy cow, at :39 of that video he absolutely destroys the Mississippi State RT. Looks like his junior year, which would have been Addison Lawrence, who went to camp with Baltimore last year.
Another WR that I think helped his stock was TJ Moe from Missouri. Not sure if he much of a consideration for anyone before being the number 1 reciever in the 3 cone, 20 yard shuttle, 60 yard shuttle and bench press. Not a great 40 time but the other numbers suggest he could be good in the slot. A lot of people forgot his 1000 yard season 2 years ago with Gabbert but these numbers should cause people to take a second look. I wouldn’t mind using a 7th round pick on him to possibly back up Baldwin and play some special teams.
Good shout.
Um. Yes.
He did a combine series of articles for the Columbia (MO) Daily Tribune. As a die-hard Mizzou guy I feel terrible for T.J. Moe. He was a big-time get for Mizzou, coming out of St. Louis as a dual threat QB.
He really suffered in the transition from a pro-caliber passing attack with Blaine Gabbert to a dual-threat attack with QB James Franklin and the emergence of RB Henry Josey. There just weren’t enough balls to go around, Moe works the hell out of the short-to-intermediate areas. He has hands like traps. What’s hard to get from combine performance is how elusive he is in space. He’s a lot like Doug Baldwin.
I’d be willing to bet Moe performs much better in the 40 at his pro day. He’s not a blazer but he’s not slow either.
Bringing up T.J. Moe gives me the chance to show y’all “The Moe Miracle”, a game-winning TD vs. Brady Hoke’s San Diego State Aztecs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRl6yGPGk1s (awesome field level end zone shot)
You cant teach a player to hang on to thrown pass. Jermaine Kearse is the best possible example of that type of player. Catch one, drop one, repeat…no thanks, give me hands any day. You all know how painful and costly it is when RW throws a pass to a wide open reciever and they drop the ball…
Option A
R-1 TE Eifert
R-2 Wheaton
Option B
R-1 WR Hopkins
R-2 TE Escobar/Kelce/Ertz/?
Is it true that Zach Miller will likely miss the first 4 games of the season?
I really can’t see this team going WR/TE or TE/WR in the first two rounds. At least one of those picks will be defense, maybe both. As for Miller, I haven’t see that. It’s too precise to project that in February.
It is the least likely scenario, but I also see a great value in this approach…
TE in the first – 1 Ertz or Eifert, whichever they like best…
WR in the second – 2 Wheaton or Goodwin, Bailey maybe…
If Wheaton and the cream of the crop are gone, then go wherever on D that is there… find that big WR like Mark Harrison or Rodney Smith later on.
One accepted way to ALWAYS help the pass rush, is to get an early and substantial lead. Players mention it all the time. If we go from good to DYNAMIC on offense, our defense could use that to its’ advantage. This last year we play way better and aggressive, with more pass rush, when we had a good lead. I want some fresh DT/DE’s, but let’s not forget that they have a field day when set free to chase a desperate QB trying to catch up… I know it is only one aspect/angle of the game, but it is one.
This is why I mentioned weeks ago about the offense developing 2 gears. Normal like now, and a bad ass hurry up system with RW at the controls. If we start off up tempo and with miss direction, get a lead, then use our normal style to grind it out and exhaust them, it would be awesome. Just look how Brady and that hurry up hurts defenses. This wouldn’t be an offense redo, just a tool they all ready have and use, just perfected. You know RW want some brain food! He is non-stop go go go… Then when we need it in other game situations, its there…another catching TE and big WR would go a long way to making our offense relentless with DangeRuss at the helm!
I get everything you’re saying. My brother’s a Denver fan so I see alot of them (and stay relatively up to date with what they’re doing) and one of the reasons they have a great pass rush (subtracting Von Miller) is because they are team built to play with a lead. You get up a couple scores then tell Bruce to pull his ears back because the opponent has abandoned the run. All that said, Pete doesn’t play like that. Even on our 150 pts 3-game stretch, we weren’t going hurry up, balls to the wall offensive aggression. Our offense was just getting great field position and Russell was being crazy efficient (Plus some crazy ST and Defensive TDs). I don’t see Pete going crazy offense unless we fall behind (i.e. Atlanta this year) in which case we still have to play the run.
For what it’s worth, if Ertz was sitting there at 25 and the DL talented had been cleaned out, I would prolly be praying for Ertz. That said, I’m not sure I see Pete making that move. Pete wants pass rush and, while it’s a deep DL draft, great pass rushers are always a highly valued commodity. I really see them going big on pass rush early.
If you have to rely on a lead to be an effective defense, you’re the Indianpolis Colts 2.0. Great at home in the regular season but when the big dogs come barking suddenly you aren’t the team everyone thinks you are… I’d rather have a defense that doesn’t need a lead to be an effective pass rushing unit.
Hi Colin! Not saying that at all… I want us to beef up our D-line!
I’m just saying PC has a ‘vision’ of his team. That vision could not have seen Russell Wilson, the unique and versatile talent he is, coming. He traded for Charlie Whitehurst for god’s sake!!! LOL
Now that we have him, I have a deep feeling that his ‘vision’ will shift and grow to include Russell in new ways. That’s all. That could be one fun way. We tend to start out slow and kinda predictable on offense I noticed. So why not turn it on its’ head and start out quick?
Remember the 17-0, 20-0… why not experiment – esp when we have Wilson…
This is a very valid train of thought. I doubt Pete thought he’d Ever be running the read option in the NFL. I don’t think it’s so far-fetched to think they couldn’t go Hopkins/Escobar if they feel there are guys they can target late. That shouldn’t be a problem at WILL, but LEO and 3-tech will be a bit more difficult.
I was put off by Ertz’ vertical at the combine — something like 30″. That negates his height. He wasn’t as fast as I expected, either.
There is zero chance that Trevardo Williams, Jamie Collins and Sio Moore finish the draft without one of them being a Seahawk. Absolutely zero probability.
If they picked up a Khaseem Greene and Corey Lemonier I can see those three not being picked. That would mean DT or WR in the third and 4th rounds. I don’t see those three lasting to round 5.
Hate Matt Scott. He’s a running QB. Might as well take Collin Klein.
I like Ryan Aplin from Arkansas State. Rob, please put up some tape of this kid. He’s got game.
Seconded on Aplin. The kid is fun to watch.
Matt Scott CAN run, but he has plenty of prolific passing games. He’s got some flaws but he’s a very good developmental prospect.
I don’t actually see much football player in Zaviar Gooden. He has great speed and can run down people but as far as impact plays, I stopped watching the video before it was done. He was too tentative when a block was coming to him like he wanted to run around it or not get hit. I just remember your stat about Greene having so many impact tackles more than any other LB’s. You can’t teach speed but I also think you can’t teach aggressiveness. It seemed like Sio Moore was diagnosing plays almost immediately off the snap. I’d rather have an smart aggressive LB than a fast one any day and I think PC/JS can tell the difference too.
Fair points.
The difference between a good athlete and a good football player. For some reason the former is often valued higher. I guess the idea is that you can further develop a player’s ability, whereas you can’t (in general) make them a better athlete.
The third crucial variable is character: how much do they love the game, how hard will they work. I suspect there is an inverse correlation between athletic skill and work ethic. Those not blessed will tend to work harder at their trade, while others will coast along using little more than their speed or size.
I suppose that’s what scouting’s all about — finding the best combination of all three.
I was thinking about how the Hawks seem to show how good our scouting department is in finding talent and ability now and not just going by numbers or perceived ability. It seems like in the past, with GM’s like Ruskell, we’d only pick the 4 year big school guys and miss out on some hidden gems that now we have a better chance getting. Seeing how good our drafts have been the past few years, I feel sorry for other teams that don’t even have half the inkling of what NFL talent is when you are scouting players.
From last year’s draft the Hawks seemed to get several guys at each position that posted top numbers at the combine at least as far as speed and most produced pretty well, with Jaye Howard being the exception in my eyes. So we can have the best of both worlds but they might be tough to find and even then sometimes don’t flourish right away (Ever since I looked back at Howard’s 40 time I’ve been hoping he would tear it up in his 2nd year or at least be active).
Some context on Gooden…
He hurt his hamstring in the UGA game, missed some games and was a bit tentative for much of the rest of the season. Find the UGA tape until he goes out in the 3rd quarter, and I think you see him at his best. Or better yet find 2011 tape and you see an all-Big 12 caliber player.
Gooden’s combine performance is a testament to his improving health.
Zavier Gooden is a good football player. He’s not a dominator. He’s built to run and chance and is tailor-made to play WILL for Seattle.
The lack of context is reason I don’t want to completely close the door on Cornelius Washington. I’m ALL for tape study, but it is easy to forget that unless you watch every play of every game that it’s a sample. Sampling inherently involves some error.
Trevardo Williams is an absolute monster. He essentially played the LEO on 80% of his snaps, and was a threat on every single one. Great speed, great bend, great strength, great burst off the snap, and an elite motor. If this kid was 6’3″ 260 and played for a bigger name team, he would be going Top 10, but he might be just short enough for us to get him in the 2nd round. His tape against Louisville is almost as impressive as the one posted against NC State.
He lacks the measureables that our FO has shown they value, but he seems pretty polished and not nearly as neurotic as Bruce Irvin in the pass rush. It would be interesting to see his tape against Syracuse working against Justin Pugh where he had 0 sacks and 4 tackles before I go totally off the deep-end for this guy, but he is definitely my new favorite LEO prospect in this draft.
Trudy – I was watching for Trevardo at the combine because somewhere I had read that he has run 4.40 before the combine. If he has a background as a sprinter, as Rob reports, I’m wondering if his times at the combine were actually slow. Anyway, assuming that UConn has a “ProDay” before the draft, it will be interesting to see what he runs there.
Here’s a website that reports that Trevardo was still suffering from a sprained ankle that kept him out of the Senior Bowl http://articles.courant.com/2013-02-22/sports/hc-uconn-football-trevardo-williams-0223-20130222_1_position-drills-
A word of caution — the same website says he’s 6’5″. If only …
You watch Sio Moore’s tape and you can’t help but think his athleticism is impressive and apparent in the way he moves and bends. You watch Washington’s tape and while he occasionally shows a nice burst on the edge rush, rarely does he appear to show plus athleticism.
It’s just a reminder of something Josh Norris regularly tweets, that the combine isn’t necessarily about revealing athletic traits, its about affirming them based on what the tape shows.
I like Kerwynn Williams as a mid round prospect, I think he’s got a lot of talent…but the 2:05 mark of his tape above is hilarious. That is why you can’t always just assume you can put an undersized speed guy on the edge and expect him to be able to run an inside slant. On occasion, he will get flattened in the first 5 yards and the play will be busted.
This is a great piece. Thanks, Rob!
Rob,
Have you had any luck tracking down any Brandon Williams tape? Also this is more philosophical then anything else, but besides the Senior Bowl what has you down on Margus Hunt? Is it his age? Full disclosure, I’m not on the Hunt bandwagon, but I’m curious between the disparity of coverage between him and Ansah…Both are older players who are novice to the game, whereas one is talked about glowing because of his senior bowl performance (Ansah) the other is similarly talked against because of his senior bowl performance…If Hunt were to take some sort of draft day fall into the 3rd round, and perhaps into the fourth, do you think in your estimation that it would be a good move fro the Seahawks to drat him? Also though I love the Senior Bowl it cracks me up nearly every year to see who “shines,” and who doesn’t…like a one Mr. Russell Wilson, who seemingly killed his career as a starter after the Senior Bowl last year.
Age plays a big part, as does frame and upside. I think Hunt is a more polished athlete but he’ll be 26. It might take Ansah and Hunt 2 years to become what they’re capable of. And by that time, Hunt will be approaching 30 and Ansah will be hitting his physical peak. Hunt is quite lean despite his physique and I worry about big lineman getting into his chest and him struggling to counter. At the Senior Bowl he seemed to be unable to be a difference maker on pure physical quality alone and that showed up some of his rawness in terms of experience — he struggled to understand how to set the edge versus the run, losing contain on several occasions. That’s fine as long as he’s threatening as a pass rusher, but he was a complete non factor. Ansah on the other hand was just dominating. Everything he was doing was natural despite his lack of pure football experience. He was getting off blocks, exploding into the backfield. It was a master class.
I actually think Hunt will last until the round 4-6 region now and some teams might try to convert him to a tight end. And you’re right it is very possible to get overly excited about the combine. Brandon Graham being a great example. Everyone got too excited there and his career has been a big disappointment so far.
Thanks for the more discerning points about frame size, and strength. It’s funny about “some team,” converting him to TE. I feel like a team that you discuss all the time had their own athletic marvel in Jameson Konz, and tried several different thoughts as to what to do with him. Perhaps the Seahawks could be that team and with an obviously epically strong core, form discus, convert Hunt into his natural position of long snapper!
3 late round/UDFA options at DT whose combine numbers intrigue me (no tape whatsoever on 2 of them and limited on the other):
1. Josh Boyd from Miss St, 6’3″ 310lbs, ran a 5.14 and put up 32 reps. Best 3-cone among DTs at 7.16. This is the one guy I can find a little tape on (Senior Bowl plus some highlights), while the others are SMALL school products…but they put up even better numbers.
2. Jared Smith from New Hampshire, 6’3″ 302lbs, ran a 5.08 and put up 28 reps. 2nd best broad jump (1″ off Sheldon Richardson) among DTs at 9’7″. 2nd best vertical jump among DTs (behind the next guy I list) at 32.5″. Best short shuttle among DTs at 4.39 (this is also 6th among all DL–tied with Barkevious Mingo and just behind Dion Jordan). 2nd best 3-cone (behind Boyd) among DTs at 7.2. Frankly this guy would have been a combine star in everything but the 40 if he put up these same numbers while weighing 40lbs less…but he plays in FCS so it’s extremely difficult to evaluate his as a football player, not just an athlete.
3. Nick Williams from Samford, 6’4″ 309lbs, ran a 4.94 (behind only Datone Jones and Sharrif Floyd, and had the lowest 10yd split among all DTs at 1.63, tied with Jones who weighs 25lbs less) and put up 28 reps. Best vertical jump among DTs at 33″. 4th best broad jump (behind Richardson, Smith, and Jones) at 9’3″. Again, this guy would look explosive at 30-40lbs lighter, but he’s another FCS guy with no tape out there.
Anyhow, all three have the size I think we’re looking for at 3-tech (6’3″ish, 300lbs+) and from their combine numbers all seem to have the strength, speed, agility, and explosiveness. Just based on that, these are guys I wouldn’t be shocked to see us grab in the 6th or 7th to add to the competition at DT (along with Scruggs, Howard, etc.).
Love me some small school guys. These are nice names to follow. My impression is that this is a very deep year for small school players. Lots of names up and down the draft board.
Hey Rob,
Great post as usual, but I was wondering your thought on Lerentee McCray from UF as a possible late round LEO option? I came across him about a month ago while watching tape on Jelani Jenkins and Bostic (McCray is #34 in the Bostic video above) and he’s been getting mentioned a few times lately. Here’s a post from Derek Stephens that has him as the #7 fit for LEO position in this draft http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2013/2/28/4039722/nfl-draft-2013-outside-linebacker-leo-rankings . Unfortunately McCray didn’t work out at the combine, but I expect he’d have similar numbers to what Clem put up. Clem was 6’3″ 238 and ran a 4.68. Clem now plays at 255. McCray’s 6’2″ 250 with 33 3/8″ arms and 10″ hands (Irvin has 33 3/8″ arms and 9 5/8″ hands by comparison). Seems to only use speed rush/bull rush combo now, but he played LB for the most part until last year where he was a OLB/DE hybrid. You can see him rush from both a standing up position and down on the line in. Seems to have surprising power, a great motor, and decent hand use. He also had a very good game against TX A&M this year while matched up with Joeckel. Only a part time player at UF and had some injury history, but I’ve seen him projected in round 5. Just curious if you had any thoughts on him. Great job on the blog!
Hey tzahn,
Not had a chance to study him yet but I’ll keep an eye on him when I look at the Florida tape (was planning to with Bostic in mind).
Since he’s a Gator, you can expect Quinn will know everything there is about him.
Bostic looks great, great closing speed, takes on blockers extremely well, FANTASTIC vision. On that reverse he was the first person to recognize it. I just feel like he would fit better in a 3-4 scheme. Could go to the Ravens in the second or third. I don’t know what his draft grade is, yet.
How about Akeem Shavers RB from purdue..Running back Akeem Shavers did run blistering unofficial 40 times between 4.35 and 4.38 seconds. He also registered a 39 1/2-inch vertical leap, a 10-foot, 10-inch broad jump and bench pressed 225 pounds.
I know very little about Shavers but I will try and check him out.
I have to disagree on Matt Scott. Don’t get me wrong, I really liked Wilson pre-draft as well. I think my words (on this site) were something along of the lines of “I just watched the tape, and I want him, I want him bad”. However, I do not see this with Matt Scott. His throws were either just bubble screens, or really inaccurate.
Not had a chance to watch him thoroughly yet.