Wednesday notes: QB thinking & thoughts on the trenches

Time to reassess conventional thinking on quarterbacks?

The great thing about the NFL is it constantly keeps you guessing. We all have preferences and ideals — whether it comes to team building, philosophy, positional priority in the draft or a variety of other subjects.

You think you know what you know. Right up until the point something happens that makes you second guess yourself.

The conventional wisdom on quarterbacks is that there are two ways to find a good one. You draft one very early in round one or you get lucky later on. Classic examples are the likes of Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert — all recent high draft picks. Then you have the likes of Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott and of course, Tom Brady — taken much later on.

For the most part, this is how you find a quarterback. But often you end up taking a position where this is the only way to do it. I know I’ve felt that way for a long time. I think it’s fair to say most people do shut their minds off once they feel like they’ve established a hard truth.

The success of Geno Smith feels like a personal dig in the ribs that this league conjures up the improbable so many times. It’s why there isn’t one single way to win a football game — contrary to what the analytically minded group on Twitter would have you believe. This is a sport of variety and opportunity.

Smith appears to have benefitted from time, experience and being overlooked (creating motivation). His wiser head and patience seems to have aligned with the talent that had him drafted early in round two. Now we see a player being ranked in the top five at his position based on 2022 performance.

This journeyman backup, aged 32, has delivered half a season of top-level performances. He doesn’t look serviceable or decent. He looks fantastic.

Meanwhile the ‘golden child’ Trevor Lawrence is struggling in Jacksonville. Zach Wilson, the #2 pick in 2021 after Lawrence, just had a nightmare against the Patriots.

Several young highly drafted players have been thrust into starting roles and they’ve struggled badly. Some may come out the other side better for it — just as Josh Allen did. Remember, he was an internet meme for two years before the light switched on. Now he’s the favourite to be MVP (ahead of Mahomes, Derrick Henry and, well, Geno Smith).

Others will fall away. Perhaps some will do what Geno has done? Take their time, reassess, develop and perform later in their careers?

Smith’s rebirth has certainly made me consider a few things:

1. Don’t automatically write-off struggling young quarterbacks. Perhaps the league should look at Geno Smith’s experience and be prepared to either play a longer game with these players, or be willing to offer more second and third chances?

2. The unexpected will happen and players can and will prove you wrong.

3. While there’s a race at the moment to draft quarterbacks and then start them immediately in order to max-out their cheap rookie contracts — is this the great idea we all perhaps thought? If young quarterbacks are coming into the league and for the most part are struggling — you aren’t getting any benefit. You’re just blowing a young career and your own high pick.

4. Should more teams be prepared to take a longer-term view of things? Kansas City, when they drafted Patrick Mahomes, sat him in year one and started Alex Smith. Only when they felt Mahomes was ready did they trade Smith and go with the younger player. I’m sure if Mahomes wasn’t ready in year two, they would’ve retained Smith. It used to be that young QB’s sat for some time before being handed the starting job. Now it’s just assumed they come in and start as soon as possible. Maybe it’s time to be more cautious with these players?

As part of a personal commitment to consider these points, here are two key takeaways I’d have:

1. Perhaps Drew Lock — himself a former second round pick — can reinvent his career down the line? He has the physical talent. He seems to be of good character. It’ll be interesting to see if he’s inspired by Geno. It’d be nice for the Seahawks to retain both players after this season — but I wonder if another team will give Lock a better chance to start with the hope he can similarly turn things around?

2. If that does happen, the Seahawks will need to add a quarterback (assuming they retain Geno). I still think it would be ideal to draft a young, high-upside QB who can be afforded the time to learn and develop without the pressure to start immediately. I still think the best option for this role would be Anthony Richardson. His upside is as high as you’ll see in any quarterback entering the league. He needs time. It would be a perfect scenario and provided you’re willing to accept you won’t get those ‘cheap’ early years on his contract — you could set the team up for success in the short and long term with a Geno Smith/Anthony Richardson plan.

The future of the interior offensive line

This isn’t a hot topic at the moment and neither should it be. Eventually, though, it will come into focus.

Austin Blythe and Phil Haynes are both free agents at the end of the season. It’s virtually impossible to imagine them retaining Gabe Jackson with a $9m cap hit. Damien Lewis is also entering a contract year.

Typically whenever we start talking about the O-line, people are immediately drawn to which high picks they can use or which big-name free agents they can sign.

In order to retain Geno Smith next year, the Seahawks are going to have virtually nothing to spend. Their $32m in effective cap space will go very quickly.

They will need to find savings somewhere. People might not like to hear it but their O-line scheme is set up to prosper without big names at guard or center.

The Rams model, which Seattle is using, has plugged players in based on certain body types and profiles. We’ve been through this a fair bit already but a quick recap. Los Angeles have used a smaller, brawling, wrestling type at center (Blythe, Brian Allen). They’ve also done a good job finding converted tackles to play guard.

David Edwards was a tackle taken in the fifth round in 2019. He has started at left guard. Up until this year they started Austin Corbett at right guard. He was a former second round pick for the Browns. He played tackle at Nevada. The Rams gave Cleveland a fifth round pick for him in 2019 and played him at right guard. He performed well enough to sign a three-year, $26.25m contract with the Panthers in March.

Blythe was a seventh round pick claimed off waivers who became a starter for LA. His replacement, Allen, was a late fourth round pick in 2018.

Ideally the Seahawks would go out and create an all-star O-line but the truth is — with the expectation of retaining Geno and having minimal cap space — that isn’t viable. Neither is spending multiple high picks on interior offensive linemen when:

a.) The scheme has shown it can succeed without such investment

b.) Other areas of the team require investment

For example, it’s not just the O-line that will be missing players next year. Poona Ford is a free agent. L.J. Collier is out of contract. Al Woods will be 36 and they’d need to make a call on his $5m cap hit. Shelby Harris would be 32 and is due $12.2m. Quinton Jefferson is due just under $6m.

You’d like to keep the group together but it might not be financially viable and there are ageing players included here. Some long term thinking would be attractive.

They have enough picks where they could dabble in both areas (and I have absolutely zero issue with investing in the trenches on either side of the ball — I would encourage it). But I also think positional value is key. There aren’t any pure guards I’ve seen worthy of a high pick. You could convert a tackle to guard but do you want to do that in the first two rounds? It is, in fairness, a strong center class — but there aren’t any Tyler Linderbaum types who fit the size or profile for the scheme. They are all bigger blockers.

As such, they might seek to retain Haynes (who might not break the bank) and possibly restructure Jackson’s deal. They could try Jake Curhan or Stone Forsyth at guard. The return of Joey Hunt to the practise squad could be an attempt to see if he can provide an answer at center. After all, he has the body type this scheme calls for.

Or they could look for value on the open market.

I don’t know how viable any of these options are because it’s early. Yet there are a decent handful of out-of-contract NFL tackles who might project inside to guard and have more success.

I’d love to think there’s a chance they could get to Isaiah Wynn — a former blog favourite who always appeared more suited to guard than tackle. Atlanta’s Kaleb McGary is a free agent. Mike McGlinchey is struggling at tackle for the Niners but could make a better interior lineman. For me, Jawaan Taylor has always been more suited to kicking inside. At center, Garrett Bradbury will reach free agency.

I also wonder if the Bengals might be close to giving up on Jonah Williams. I was never quite sure why a player with such modest testing results and less than ideal measurables was so highly coveted as a top-15 pick. He is struggling at left tackle and he always appeared better suited to the interior. The Bengals are sorted at guard already.

Williams might be available in the off-season for a cheap trade. He’d be playing on his fifth-year option and it would allow Cincinnati to pursue alternatives at tackle. He could be a sort of ‘Corbett’ trade option for Seattle — although it would cost you $12m in 2023 so that might not be plausible.

If they wanted scheme familiarity — LA’s Edwards is also a free agent in 2023. He’s been placed on IR twice due to concussions which is a concern for the player. It might mean he’s relatively affordable though, should he make a full recovery.

I suppose the point is they have options and there might be ways to be creative.

In terms of the draft, I’ve currently only got one offensive lineman listed as a likely first rounder (Tennessee’s brilliant right tackle Darnell Wright). I think Northwestern’s Peter Skoronski is a bit overrated and has the measurables of a guard. I also think Maryland’s Jaelyn Duncan, Clemson’s Jordan McFadden, Arizona’s Jordan Morgan, Oklahoma’s Wanya Morris and Miami’s Zion Nelson are suited to moving inside. The draft could provide some solutions here but testing and the Senior Bowl practises will be big in determining final judgements on positional fit and range.

At center — as noted before — there aren’t any ‘size’ fits for the scheme. Yet John Michael Schmitz, Joe Tippman, Ricky Stromberg, Olusegun Oluwatimi, Sedrick Van Pran and Luke Wypler for me all warrant day two grades at this early juncture. Again, testing will be key.

The 2023 D-line class remains a bit of a head-scratcher

There’s a lot of question marks here I’m trying to get my head around.

Why is Will Anderson’s 2022 season a mile away from what he showed in 2021? Is he saving himself? How good is he, actually? Because based on what he’s shown this year, he’s a notch below the Bosa brothers and some other highly drafted defensive ends.

How good is Jalen Carter? When he flashes he looks great but there’s a lack of consistency to his play and he needs to win the leverage battle more often and do the basics right to complement the ‘wow’ moments. Also — what are his measurables because it’s hard to work out how big/long he actually is.

Is Bryan Bresee ever going to be more than a great idea? He’s missed time due to injuries and a personal tragedy but despite his outstanding testing profile at SPARQ — he’s not shown that much when he has played this year.

Myles Murphy is consistently touted in the top-10 but his body lacks refinement. There’s little tone to his arms and for want of a better way of putting this — he appears to have moobs. He doesn’t have a classic edge rusher’s body. He’s clearly very athletic but he gives off a Shaq Lawson vibe at times. Lawson’s never had more than 6.5 sacks in a season as a former #19 overall pick.

K.J. Henry is incredibly impressive and massively underrated but somehow — despite causing havoc every week — he only has two sacks in eight games. Does he have a problem finishing?

Mazi Smith is the most impactful, athletic, disruptive defensive tackle in college and creates pressure every week. He has one sack in eight games. Same question about finishing. He certainly can do a better job timing his get-off.

Calijah Kancey is very athletic and disruptive but he’s 6-0 and 280lbs. Zacch Pickens has ideal size and shows some great skill but he seems to lack stamina and endurance. Mike Morris only seems to play with great urgency when he takes on Michigan State. Will McDonald has everything you want physically in an edge rusher but his 2022 tape is rubbish.

There are lots of players here you want to fall in love with but something always holds you back. As such it’s a class with some potential but also a lot of question marks.

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  1. Brett

    Great article yet again rob! Did you mean Isaiah Wynn instead of Isaiah Wilson in your o-line targets? Thought Wilson had some legal troubles and was dropped by a couple of teams soon after he was drafted.

    • Rob Staton

      I did yes, thanks for highlighting this, will change it now

  2. Mike McD


    It is amazing to me that people are still writing Lock off after they were all proven very, very wrong by Geno Smith. How is that possible?

    It is refreshing to see someone say, you know what? I was wrong. And expand on why they were wrong and come to the conclusion that: Drew Lock might actually be good (sitting behind Geno and learning). This is in fact, exactly what Pete is saying. In addition, QBs are playing far later into their lives than ever. Lock is 26. If he starts by 30 that is not too bad. Backups, still make good money by normal people standards.

    • David Thompson

      Re LOCK: Dave Canales has been the “Hawk’s QB coach, for the last few years, Canales has most likely worked closely with Geno and Lock, same with Waldron, how much credit to Geno’s success can be attributed to Canales, Waldron and Pete, and can those coaches have similar influence and effects on Lock, who’s long claimed to have strong arm, plus good legs. Can the coaches help Lock with vision and decision making, like Geno seems to have been helped. If Lock is capable of showing improvements, like Geno has shown, could it be the QB of the future is already on the roster, and currently at a decent price.

  3. Starhawk29

    Personally, the most impressive thing about Geno Smith is the man himself. The impression Geno gave off when he was drafted, to me at least, was someone that wasn’t really that interested in being an NFL QB. Mark Sanchez pretty much went right out and said it on Colin Cowherd’s show. Yet the Geno we see today is not just a dialed in QB, but a fiery character and competitor. The way he played against the Chargers following that penalty will be something I remember for a very long time. I applaud that man for growing so much as a human, to go from uncaring to passionate about something is remarkable, and he makes you want to be his teammate.

    I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: Sorry for doubting you 7.

    Rob, on a completely different note, it’s starting to feel like we might be on the outside looking in at QB in the draft. I’m finding myself wondering what they do if they end up with picks 11 and 20 (random picks from roughly the range both teams will finish, not an exact estimate). It’s still early, but what do you think they do in that scenario? Trade up, or pass the buck to later and ride Geno? Something I’m not thinking of?

    • Rob Staton

      It’s too early to say — my only answer is anything should be considered

      • Ian

        Rob, are there any Day 2 qbs on your radar who could sit behind Geno for a year or two with an eye towards them eventually becoming the starter?

        • Rob Staton

          None I would bang the table for

  4. Blitzy the Clown

    you could set the team up for success in the short and long term with a Geno Smith/Anthony Richardson plan.

    I keep thinking of the Trey Lance hype pre draft. Ditto Zach Wilson. The pro days and draft workouts. So easy to make pretty throws in shorts.

    What kind of hype will there be around Richardson as he moves through that process? I’m telling you (not you Rob, you already know) that his arm is special. I saw a throw vs Georgia late in the game when it didn’t matter, but Richardson was still playing like it did. It was at least 20 yards, but more it was a laser — on a straight line, perfect spiral right into the WR’s high pointed hands. And the thing was his arm barely moved. I don’t recall a wind up, just a flick if even that. But the ball just flew away from him right to the receiver.

    Hopefully, the specter of Lance and the Niners’ folly will shy some teams, and hopefully Denver’s pick will be high enough for a move to get Richardson feasible with the R1 picks we have this year (plus a lesser pick if necessary).

    As has been mentioned a lot of late, even in some comments to this article already, Geno’s game has really matured. Apparently his entire attitude has as well. And I think the next step of his evolution should involve mentorship. And man, there’s nobody I’d prefer he mentor than Richardson.

    On a related note, I hope DTR is one of Seattle’s picks if they miss on Richardson (or whomever they may have as QB1). I think of Tyler Huntley, or Taysom Hill and I’m not at all comparing them to DTR as QBs, but rather the value they add to their rosters, even though they aren’t starters. I think DTR would make practices better just because he’s that kind of competitor.

    I dunno. I’d try to draft him regardless of whether I hit on a QB in R1.

    • Rob Staton

      I think by the time the draft comes around, Richardson will be viewed as a top-10 lock

  5. Trevor

    Seems more and more like the ideal situation would be to use that first pick in the 8-12 range on Richarson to develop behind Geno then try and get as much draft capital as possible between 35-60 where there should be some great options.

  6. KD

    It’s frustrating looking at all the mock drafts out there at the moment because they are absolutely scattershot at the moment. Big boards are all over the place. Top 10 players are 2nd rounders in others, and 3rd rounders in some are 1st rounders in others. Most of the standard, generally accepted 1st rounders are in reasonable positions, but it just underscores how odd this CFB season has been with regards to expectations and projections vs. reality. Even online simulators like PFN and Fanspeak keep ending up with wildly different simulations on what seems like a daily basis.

    • Rob Staton

      I think more than ever the ‘draft media’ are struggling to get an angle on this class because it’s really weak at the top

      What I would say is that any big board that doesn’t have Bijan Robinson in the top two will not be a reflection of any board in the NFL. Regardless of positional value (which shouldn’t impact a big board or grade anyway) he will be 1st or 2nd in terms of grades on most NFL boards (if not all)

      I also think Nolan Smith is going to have far lower grades (R2/3) than the media is suggesting

      And Anthony Richardson’s upside will have him near the top for QB needy teams

  7. L80

    Myles Murphy’s Moobs.

  8. Tony P

    In terms of QB NFL success, we shouldn’t overlook the role of situation in terms of team and coaching that a player finds himself in. Early draft picks often end up on “bad” teams with a lot of flaws and coaching turnover, and are expected to be saviors in difficult situations. It’s hard for players to maintain confidence and teams to be patient when that happens. If Tom Brady had been drafted by a different team, it’s entirely possible he might have had a Journeyman type career. Untimely injuries also are a factor, look what happened to Geno on the Jets.

    • Peter

      Alternate history:

      Alex Smith to Green bay, Rodgers to niners.

      Since smith was actually decent wit decidedly zero help in his first half dozen years in tge league I have wondered what he could have been.

      • Thomas Wells

        Fantastic point Tony. Alex Smith looked like hot garbage until Harbaugh came along. Then he suddenly looked good under Harbaugh and even better under Reid. Very much underscores the idea that making it as a QB in the NFL is not just about talent but situation. On a related note I’ve always wondered what Russell would have looked like if he went to an organization like Miami or Tampa Bay to be “developed” by a coach like Greg Schiano or Joe Philbin.

  9. AlaskaHawk

    I’ve got to question a few things about this idea that Seahawks should draft someone to sit behind Geno Smith idea.

    The first thing is – we are questioning whether there is enough cap to pay for Smith and other players. Almost seems like it is one or the other with the way the numbers have been reported. I’m sure there will be cuts but, here’s the question – can the team afford 30 million for Geno and paying another 6 million for a rookie to sit on the bench?

    Second thing – What makes you think that a 32 year old quarterback who has finally succeeded – will be at all interested in spending time instructing his replacement? I think he would be more interested in cutting a big contact and improving his own quarterback skills. Seems like the quarterback coach will be the one responsible for developing the rookie.

    Third thing is = Geno may last for quite a few years, so what’s the point? The rookie is suggested to be a strong armed quarterback who apparently just needs to sharpen up their skills and learn the system. If Geno lasts another three years then the rookie will be sitting a long time tieing up cap space.

    So on the one hand if they keep Geno they don’t need the backup. On the other hand, if they don’t keep Geno, the rookie will be sitting behind Lock. Can Lock teach him anything?

    • Rob Staton

      I doubt it will be $30m for Geno and if it is they might have to move on

      It wouldn’t be $6m unless it’s the #1 pick

      Nobody is saying Geno Smith has to ‘instruct’ anyone. Where have I said that he would be required to do that? I’ve never once implied any development role for Geno.

      The point is you plan accordingly at the most important position. What if Geno doesn’t play well for years? Come on, you don’t need me to explain that one away. Investing in the QB position is just sensible.

      • AlaskaHawk

        You had brought up the slim cap situation and now I’m worried about it. I don’t think they can afford Geno next year.

        I’m anticipating a scenario where they let Geno go, and have a competition between Lock and whoever the rookie QB is. In which case we need the best rookie QB we can find.

        • cha

          My reply started as a new post for some reason. Reposting here


          I put this together a couple weeks ago with an $8.67m cap hit in 2023.

          It may not be a stone lock but it proves signing Geno is a workable option.

          • AlaskaHawk

            Thanks Cha, so they could take care of Geno Smith, at least up to the amount you named.

            I just don’t want to get into these scenarios where the Sehawks cut a healthy player like Al Woods just because he makes “to much” money next year. He’s worth it!!! Get rid of the deadwood and not the productive players.

        • Jabroni-DC

          Don’t sweat it. They can make a first year cap hit whatever they want. If Geno wants ‘Mahomes money’ then he tests the market & it determines his value. Hopefully this honeymoon continues though because everyone is having fun.

  10. Palatypus

    So, I guess after the seaon ends, I’ll be researching college wrestlers that play interior offensive line with good SPARQ scores.

    • Nick

      The most wonderful time of the year!

    • BK26

      *cough* Iowa offensive linemen *cough*

      In all reality, that is what Iowa uses: farm boys that wrestle (and Iowa high school wrestling is top notch) and then red shirt and learn from one of the best offensive line coaches in the country. At least a few years ago, under Ferentz, all senior offensive linemen had at least tried out for an NFL team. A few are journeymen or a short, nice answer for a year or two, like Blythe.

      I have no idea how their linemen coming out this year are, they are unwatchable this year on offense. But I’ve always wanted Seattle to use these linemen: the tougher fighters that can bully and wear you down throughout the game.

  11. HOUSE

    I truly like the practical approach here and question any rationale. I think the Geno has done an amazing job this year and fits the system and scheme he’s being asked to play in. At 32 years old, could he still have 4-5 successful years? I don’t think it’s out of the question, but we all know that that can’t be our plan. Drew Lock only being 26 could potentially find his way and I’m guessing time will tell. Throughout history we have seen so many quarterbacks not meet expectations of the first and second round. Regardless if Geno is retained or not, a quarterback needs to be drafted. I think ideally having someone sit and learning the system and maturing is a big thing.

    Concerning the OL, I think going after veterans (Wynn) and maybe looking at late-round conversion projects/UDFAs would be good to address the Guard position. I keep thinking Curhan could be a good option there as well.

    Regarding the defensive line, I think addressing it early could be the answer. You mentioned some amazing names and without testing, it would be a complete guessing game right now of where those guys really stack up. Her name I heard someone mentioned the other day was Isaiah Mcguire and I was curious what your thoughts of him were.

    When the season started, I had my head wrapped around looking at a Top-5 pick (QB) around this point of the year. I had envisioned that with our native pick, and not to be just outside of that window with the Broncos pick. With the trade of Chubb, I don’t know how drastically that impacts that defense and what happens with those picks. I think this has been an extremely weird season and that it has caused a ripple effect for mock-drafters. I have seen so many names scattered throughout the first round and very little consistency outside of the top-3 picks. I’m learning to just be very open minded and I love some of the names that I’m seeing here. Watching our guys play tremendous ball and building a sense of unity and team is amazing!

    • HOUSE

      *questioning rationale…

      I think knowing that there are several options out there and understanding that there are several options out there is a really good thing.

  12. cha

    I put this together a couple weeks ago with an $8.67m cap hit in 2023.

    It may not be a stone lock but it proves signing Geno is a workable option.

  13. Palatypus

    So, I guess we are looking for one of these guys at the interior offensive line.

    Does anybody recognize any football players on that list?

    Iowa has a Freshman that does it, but he plays linebacker.

  14. clbradley17

    Excellent analysis on the team’s financial problems with the trenches, and an additional breakdown of the college trench players. According to over the cap, we only have 33 players under contract next year, and it’s going to be difficult to sign or retain 20+ players, especially since it looks like we need to cut several more to re-sign Geno if possible. Even if we have a great draft like in ’22, plus a few UDFAs that are talented enough to make the final cut, we’d still need 5-10 more players in FA. Jackson really looks like he’s had a drop off this year, and would be great if we could cut him and retain Haynes and/or use Curhan/Forsythe at G next year like you stated, in addition to drafting at least 1 and signing at least 1 FA IOL.

    Unbelievable that both S Adams and Diggs each have an 18+ mil. cap hit next year. But if they’re cut (doubt they can be traded) after June 1st, there’s a 7 and 4 mil. dead cap hit for Adams and Diggs respectively, and an 11 and 14 mil. cap savings. Looks to be imperative to re-sign Neal to a smaller reasonable contract, and get 2-3 more S in FA and the draft. Would be great to re-sign or re-negotiate at least 1-2 of the DL to lower contracts if they keep showing what they’ve displayed the last 3 games.

    Harris ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day and is still a very good athlete as evidenced by his run down of QB Jones a few days ago, but his 12 mil. cap hit next year is too much, as you pointed out. Same with Poona, he’s looked great the last few games since they changed the scheme, but anywhere near 10 mil. a year cap hit like this year seems twice what they could pay him at least in ’23. They need to back load these re-signs/restructures, but that may compound the yearly problem of using too much of the next few years’ cap room, made worse once WRs DK and TL’s + maybe Geno’s/others bigger pay kicks in.

    So then in ’24 and ’25 we won’t have that much effective cap room with a lot of back loaded contracts expanding by double in those years. ’25s cap space doesn’t show, but ’24 has just over 101 mil. effective cap space, and once you take into account Adams/Diggs dead cap hits (11 mil.) + ’23 rookies & FAs, and the backloaded contracts of Geno and others, could be half that or less. And we’ll still need 20 or more players every year. Hopefully JS can work this ’22 magic several years in a row and we can really build another great team that’s in contention for the SB every year like KC is or NE was.

    • Peter

      I don’t think it’s put of tge realm of possibility that Seattle goes into the draft considering multiple safeties.

      Diggs and Adams for different reasons aren’t worth the money they make.

      As for Neal not sure why he wouldn’t try and get paid by someone. Smaller reasonable contract? I don’t know. He’s a better “safety,” as in the position and not some cooked up numbers and schemes to justify his presence than Adams.

      I don’t think he would get Diggs money but most teams wouldn’t have given Diggs that money. I just think he could easily ve priced out of Seattle.

  15. clbradley17

    The PFN draft simulator must be from early in the seaon, because it shows our native pick at 10, and our 2nd #1 as Denver’s in the mid-20s. Also they still have QB Levis at only the 15th best player, and I remember in a preseason article, they had him as the 12 best QB. Here’s my 2nd attempt at the PFN draft, no trades:


    Anthony Richardson
    QB Florida

    Isaiah Foskey
    EDGE Notre Dame

    Mazi Smith
    DT Michigan

    Jalin Hyatt
    WR Tennessee

    Jack Campbell
    LB Iowa

    Chris Rodriguez Jr.
    RB Kentucky

    Luke Wypler
    OC Ohio State

    Ji’Ayir Brown
    S Penn State

    Dorian Thompson-Robinson

  16. DriveByPoster

    Looking way too far ahead & asssuming that the team keep up their current level of performance, I see that down the road a bit we have the Raiders & the Panthers games to come. It would be nice if the ‘hawks could put together a blowout win against one or both of them (especially the Raiders, yaay Raiderbusters!) so that there might be an opportunity for Drew Lock to see the field. It would be nice to get a look at him in an actual game. It would make further wild speculations about the future of the QB position a bit more fun with some actual data to base it on! 😀

  17. Forrest

    Could this be the chain moving WR3 that we’ve been seeking for short 3rd down passes?

    “Treadwell impresses with short routes—especially slants—and producing yards after the catch and after contact. He struggles to separate from defensive backs on intermediate and deep routes“

    • Rob Staton

      I think it’s unlikely but it suggests they are open to adding another receiver who isn’t small.

      I would recommend people check out Jonathan Mingo at Ole Miss.

      And it might suggest Quentin Johnston at TCU could be a R1 option

  18. no frickin clue


    I remember at the Combine last year, there were many prospects who elected not to do certain drills (bench press maybe? The 40-yard dash?) because the demands of TV and showing live meant really dumb times to actually do these drills.

    Do we know if the league is going to keep things the same this time around? That is, prioritize the live experience in prime time, even if it means more athletes electing not to participate?

    • Rob Staton

      No info yet but players skipping the bench press en masse because the bloody stupid NFL wanted them to do it on the same day as on-field workouts.

      Lots of players skip the short shuttle and three cone too because it’s bloody midnight when they get round to it due to the prime time nature of the schedule.

      They should work to fix this ASAP.

      • clbradley17

        The NFL Combine, by another name, was 1st started 40 years ago in 1982, and had 163 players. It’s gone great until the last year or 2 when they started trying to squeeze everything in at night for ratings.

        I’m with you Rob. They need to change it back to a reasonable schedule so they can do all the tests, and just record and air some parts later, instead of wanting to do everything live at night back to back.

        • AlaskaHawk

          They can always show highlights of interest again that night , just like the olympics.

  19. Tyler

    October players of the month features three (!) Seahawks:

    • clbradley17

      That’s fantastic Tyler. NFC Offensive player of the month for Geno, and O & D rookies of the month for Walker and Woolen.

  20. Sean-O

    Great content as always. This specific part of the article really caught my attention:

    “3. While there’s a race at the moment to draft quarterbacks and then start them immediately in order to max-out their cheap rookie contracts — is this the great idea we all perhaps thought? If young quarterbacks are coming into the league and for the most part are struggling — you aren’t getting any benefit. You’re just blowing a young career and your own high pick.”

    Yes, the thought is one of the biggest advantages teams have in the NFL is a QB on a rookie deal. But if the QB doesn’t pan out (for whatever reason) that’s a huge setback. Something about not forcing a QB & filling key needs with young, talented rookies on rookie deals is very appealing.

    The ’23 draft will be fascinating for Seattle. Should they/will they draft a QB early? Maybe. Would anyone blame them for continuing to stock up on position players, especially in the trenches? No.

  21. Jabroni-DC

    Does anyone remember the name of the website that used to have individual draft prospects highlighted on film? It made it much easier & quicker to check out players.

    Is there any site like that anymore?

    • Palatypus

      Most of those have beco.e channels on youtube.

    • James P Doesn’t exist anymore unfortunately.

  22. cha

    On QBs: I still think too many teams have it backwards. Build your roster and then throw your young QB into the mix.

    Top-5 teams are so talent-poor even if they do get a Lawrence or a Wilson they should sit him a year. Or maybe just half a year. David Carr Syndrome is a real thing.

    The Seahawks have been exemplary in this area. They didn’t draft a QB in 2010 or 2011 but built their core. They added Matt Flynn as a hedge and even in 2012 didn’t overdraft at the position. RW stepped onto a nearly complete team as the final piece of the puzzle.

    You could argue they did the same thing this year, maybe a little less by design because they traded Russ. But they built their core, wisely resisting the noise about drafting Kenny Pickett or Malik Willis or Matt Corral. They have a veteran QB on a rookie-QB-equivalent salary behind a rebuilt OL with bookend rookie tackles that are exceeding expectations, two great running backs (now one), a rock solid tight end group and two of the best WRs in the league. Can’t ask for more than that.

    The fact that Geno has been with Carroll for years and has been around since Waldron walked in the building, the chip on his shoulder, etc is a bonus.

    • Rob4q

      Agree with this 100% CHA – build the team and then add the QB. Too many rookies being thrown into the fire when they are not ready and the team around them isn’t built up enough.

    • KD

      I thought it was just common sense that if you are going to build a house, you start with the foundation, not the roof.

  23. Jordan

    -I think if a talented QB prospect organically presents themselves as an option to the Hawks during the draft then you have to consider it given the positional value. That said, it is nice not to be desperate or having to force it.

    And If Geno keeps playing great, as 32 isn’t old by QB standards, and given how long he was parked, he is biologically much younger than his chronological age. Could put you in a position to flip either QB for more picks. So either way, and asset worth investing in.

    But if QB doesn’t come to you, you just add another 4 young high end talents in the top 65 or so of the draft.

    -Geno, in comparison to the 2021/22 QB classes is the clearest example that coaching and environment matters so much. Especially at that position. So with that said, I’ve learned a lesson via Geno, and that is to sure as hell not make any statements about who Drew Lock will be going forward based upon who he was previously.

    -Those C prospects that Rob mentioned. I do think that presents a really good opportunity to add a solid prospect on day 2 with upside and 4 years of cost control. And if you retain Blythe and move the C prospect to guard (see Ruiz in New Orleans) so be it.

    -These big boards and mocks are an absolute cluster and fool’s errand this far out – no one’s fault; just so early to know. For example, a good chuckle can be had looking at this 2019 mock released in Oct of 2018:

    • Ashish

      Jordan, thanks for sharing the link. It gives very good idea how mock draft in Oct/Nov looks. Here is interesting fact
      Michael Jackson, CB, was listed as 1st round pick 31st pick. He was picked in 5th round but playing like top draft pick this year.
      Last game Michael Jackson some hits was so fun to watch. That hit create fear in receiver while catching expecting to be hit.

      • Jordan

        Yes, Jackson looks excellent.

        And I don’t think he ever ‘busted’, so much as that he never really got any run. And no he’s a bigtime athlete getting excellent DB coaching.

        That’s a wild mock – has Seahawks DK, Fant, Lock, and Jackson all in the 1st round.

    • Rob Staton

      he is biologically much younger than his chronological age

      I know this gets said a fair bit about players who flourish later on but as someone who hasn’t played NFL I don’t feel physically better at 32 and certainly don’t now I’m 38 😂

      Your body gets old, regardless of how long you’ve played. Geno might be able to find a way to succeed despite that as some have — but most hit a wall at some point simply due to Father Time.

      • Ashish

        Yes i don’t get that, Geno is human and not car tires that he has more threads left as he was not used. Let’s enjoy Geno’s performance who is 32 (not old for QB ) and he has realistically 2 or 3 years to play for sure.

        • AlaskaHawk

          Come on, quarterbacks are making it past 40 these days. Geno has low mileage. Make him drink Brady’s superfood miracle cure and he will do fine!

      • Phil

        It’s not a 100% direct comparison, but there’s some interesting data from the NBA where good players have been able to remain at a high level for longer in the past decade than previously was occurring. Elite players that previously tended to start tailing off at 28-30 are now often remaining effective and above average into their early-mid thirties. Those who aren’t above average tend to get replaced sooner by younger players. So the average age goes down, but those who establish a high level of play are more likely to maintain it for longer. I wouldn’t say it’s predictive, but it lends credence to the idea that an early 30’s player who is performing well may have several years left before a physical decline sets in.

        • Rob Staton

          I wouldn’t say it’s predictive either because let’s be fair — we’re not seeing this with any consistency in the NFL.

          Two of the greatest players to ever play the game — Brady and Rodgers — have succeeded late into their careers. For many others (Rivers and even Brees for example) — father time remains undefeated. We’re even seeing it with Russ now, I suspect.

  24. Roger Davis

    With respect to the Beatles and “Lucy” I say our conundrum could be titled – “Gino in the sky with diamonds.”

    Going forward, one way or the other, from 2023-24 onward some team is going to be counting the “diamonds” paid to Gino and the “diamonds” delivered to the team on the field by Eugene Cyril Smith III (born October 10, 1990) – or Gino as Eugene has been shortened to.

    My beloved Seahawks have multiple outcomes: a) The Team wot got suckered by a dude with one good year. b) The team wot won three Super Bowls an’ the Powerball Lottery. or c) The team wot did wot Roger Davis wanted them to do and lived happily ever after. or finally d) We lose – we’ve an easy way out – we blame Roger Davis. (Always blame the messenger…)

    So what does Roger want them to do?

    A) Use as much, or little, of the gifts the gods (and the Dearly departed Russell) delivered us (Two 1st and two 2nd draft choices) to guarantee we get one of the few QB’S in the draft we think is worth taking an outrageous, once in a generation gamble on.
    B) Let Eugene soar like an Eagle- somewhere else.
    C) Simple. Beautiful, Outrageous, Brave. Pedal to the metal.
    D) Admit it – don’t it make a shiver go up your spine!

    PS As a Canadian, and proud member of the British Commonwealth, I offer for our American Cousins the following: “Wot is sometimes used in writing to represent what, to show that someone is speaking very informally or that they are being humorous. [British, informal]”

    • MCOHawk

      CANADIANS… sigh!

  25. JimQ

    I think a lot of NFL GM’s place way –too much importance– on a QB’s physical abilities and often don’t factor in their mental capabilities nearly as much. Any NFL QB needs to be pretty darn “SMART” and a “QUICK THINKER” that has a good ability to learn from coaching and elevate his game to the NFL level. The ability to learn and adapt to the NFL playbook & systems isn’t the same for everyone. This concept supports drafting a QB and letting him redshirt for a year. Some however can excel at it if they have that really good mental makeup & intelligence to go along with the necessary physical tools. However, there are numerous historical examples of GM’s relying on physical traits only & many of them have flopped. Those uncontested 60-yard bombs thrown in the combine in underwear are fun to watch but don’t mean very much if that’s all they got.

    • Rob Staton

      They do need the processing skills, 100%

      But traits are also more important than ever IMO. We are saying that. The top QB’s are nearly all great athletes

  26. Roy Batty

    Anderson looked like a one trick pony, at times. Bull rush after bull rush. Tackles with strength and long arms would contain him. It would be amazing for him to be under the direction of a really good mentor, once he gets to the NFL.

    I keep looking at all these incredibley athletic defensive linemen and wonder if they need that. One year to refine their technique before becoming a true starter. Frank Clark certainly blossomed into a great finisher after his first season, when he was given more snaps.

  27. VanHawk

    “CANADIANS… sigh!”


    Embarrassing to be one with comments like that.

    • VanHawk

      Reply meant to blame Roger wot

  28. JN

    I think part of the struggles of the young QBs has to be the pandemic. It has had huge ripple effects throughout all levels of QB development from HS to College to the Pros. I think they deserve some more time to get it figured out. Its gonna take a year or two for it all to get sorted out again at all levels.

  29. cha

    Damien Lewis highlight?!

    Damien Lewis highlight:

  30. Volume12

    The other day someone mentioned Ohio St DL JT Tuimoloau. Great looking prospect so far, but the guy that’s been catching my eye lately?

    His teammate, Ohio St. DE Zach Harrison. 6’6, 272 and rumored to run in the 4.5’s-4’6s. Needs to keep his pads down, but that dude has some freaky physical traits.

    Thought he played really well against arguably the best LT in the country in Penn St’s Olu Fashanu.

    • Rob Staton

      Thought he played really well against arguably the best LT in the country in Penn St’s Olu Fashanu.

      I think that’s a stretch. He’s 19 and looks like a 19-year-old with his technique. Great size and clearly has power that helps him have a degree of success in college. Watching him though I kept marking off reps where I thought he’d lose at the next level with his technique. If I was him I wouldn’t declare.

  31. Ashish

    Just curious, Rob did you get the pass for Germany game?

    Kudos to the hawks fans in UK to jump on tickets, they have been well rewarded by the team by their performance.

    • Rob Staton

      My creditation application was successful — yes. But there’s a problem with the system which is preventing me from completing the final details. Once that’s done, I will be confirmed to attend in Munich.

      • Ashish

        Yay!! Enjoy the game, hope you get chance to ask some questions to Pete. I remember you had that honor to do that last time around. Already looking ahead for next week.

        Regarding your rebuild video, I’m always holding my breath when there is game in AZ. Now I’m thinking Russ is gone, It is turn of events things will go better for Hawks.

  32. MarkinSeattle

    Any thoughts on this article that gives disproportionate credit to Locket and Metcalf as both the reason for Wilson’s struggles as well as for Gino’s success?

    I tend to think that it overstates things, and that Gino in particular is benefiting from much better play at the tackle positions.

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