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Russell Wilson’s future continues to be a big talking point
Another week, another chapter.
On Monday we had Michael Silver’s report laying the foundation for potential trade talks. Now, a new article in the Athletic — revealing Wilson’s growing discontent.
Here are the two new ‘revelations’:
— Wilson stormed out of a meeting pre-Arizona in week 11 when suggestions he made to fix the offense were dismissed
— Wilson contacted Pete Carroll to ask how the Seahawks planned to address the offensive line this off-season but was not given a satisfactory answer, preempting the comments he made to Dan Patrick and the local media after the Super Bowl
The piece ends with the following:
Asked if Wilson will be the Seahawks’ quarterback in 2021, a source close to the quarterback answered with just two words.
“Good question …”
A divorce feels like a greater possibility than ever.
But when could it happen?
Many people are drawn immediately to Wilson’s $39m cap hit. That’s understandable but I also think it’s a slight red herring.
Let’s be realistic. If the franchise quarterback and Head Coach are increasingly opposed, how can they continue to work together?
They can’t.
Equally, if Wilson’s camp are proposing trade partners to the team, as suggested in the Athletic article, how do you come back from this?
Is the $39m such an anchor weighing down both parties that they’d endure a miserable final 12 months together?
Because let’s be right here — the Eagles just took a dead cap hit on Carson Wentz and they’re $43m over the cap. The Saints are $70m over the cap. The Rams just traded Jared Goff and acquired Matt Stafford and they’re $33m over the cap.
What does the cap even mean any more?
If the Seahawks trade Wilson, they’ll be $7m worse off in 2021. With -$5m in effective cap space, they’d still be in better shape than 10 teams in the NFL.
Meanwhile, if they wait a year they’ll still be taking on a $26m dead cap hit in 2022 which is hardly spare change. So whether he’s traded this year or next, there’s a massive financial penalty brewing.
So while the $39m is admittedly a huge obstacle, I’m not convinced it’s the beginning and the end of any discussion.
To me it really comes down to how you see this situation.
I often read or hear people say they think a divorce is inevitable, just not this year (because of the dead cap hit).
I’d suggest if a parting really is inevitable, they just need to get on with it. There’s no benefit from dragging this out for another year and having 12 months of drama hanging over the franchise.
Imagine what it’ll be like. Colin Cowherd one week, Mike Florio the next. The Wilson camp briefing his dissatisfaction to the media. The constant questions during training camp about his future. The weekly analysis on the level of ‘cooking’ permitted.
Whenever he plays badly — what does it mean? Whenever he plays well — shouldn’t he have more control?
It’s not sustainable.
$39m dead cap hit or not — a line just needs to be drawn and the future plans need to be made if the writing is on the wall.
In many ways it might actually help. From 2022 he’ll be off the books. It might make it easier to justify and structure a big extension for Jamal Adams. You could sign free agents knowing you have an extra $37m to play with in next years cap.
Again — this is only if a parting is inevitable. Delaying things for 12 months for the sake of $7m this year just seems asinine. The football equivalent of a couple thinking a wet weekend away together could salvage a failing marriage.
If the relationship is salvageable though, then really it’s down to the Head Coach to sort things out.
What is the future identity of the Seahawks? Is it Pete Carroll, a soon-to-be 70-year-old Head Coach, or a 32-year-old franchise quarterback?
While Carroll has the power and authority to pretty much do what he wants, surely he also has to be conscious of what’s best for the franchise?
Ideally he might want to do things ‘his way’ to end his illustrious career. If his way essentially forces Wilson to go elsewhere within the next 12 months — are you now placing your own ego ahead of what is best for the long term future of the team?
Furthermore — if Carroll wants to win another Super Bowl before he retires, can he seriously do that without Wilson?
I can’t imagine that moving him and introducing a lesser quarterback, or even a rookie, is the pathway to Carroll securing another Championship in the next five years. Not with the defense in its current state anyway.
But neither is keeping a frustrated, dissatisfied Wilson who actively doesn’t believe in the way you want to do things. Based on that Athletic article, both parties were pulling in different directions in the second half of the 2020 season. The result? Arguably the worst stretch of Wilson’s career.
We all make plans that require adjustment. Very little in life goes exactly how you intended.
Carroll’s dream may well be to end his career doing what he wants — with absolute control over the Seahawks franchise.
But if he wants Russell Wilson to be his quarterback, he’s probably going to have to give up plenty of ground.
This is where we’re at in the NFL. Possessing a star franchise quarterback isn’t something you just have any more. The top players in the game — Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Aaron Rodgers — are speaking out a lot more than they used to.
The highest financial compensation isn’t the mere aim these days. Legacy and success is increasingly becoming just as important.
In the coming years you’re going to have to run your team with this in mind. Supporting your star quarterback, as the Buccaneers did with Tom Brady, will become the new norm. Weapons, protection, input in coaching, scheming and personnel.
Brady and the Buccs have changed the game.
If you don’t want to run your team that way, there are alternatives. You can win enough to make everything else a moot point. Or you can trade your quarterback. But essentially you’ve got a choice. Embrace the new world order or be prepared for unrest.
If Carroll cannot live in this space — or he simply doesn’t trust Wilson enough to hand over considerable power — then a parting is inevitable anyway.
I don’t think drafting a left guard and signing a tight end will be enough. I think it’ll take more than that to appease the quarterback. I suspect it’s a question of just how much Carroll is willing to cede and what level of concession will be acceptable for Wilson.
I don’t think the aim should be to make this relationship tenable for one more year. The objective should be to create an environment where both parties can work and thrive together for the rest of Carroll’s tenure.
It’s possible that a short-term band-aid could work if the team ultimately takes a step forward in 2021 and becomes far more competitive in the playoffs than its been for the last six years.
The 2020 Seahawks, however, didn’t look close — regardless of their 12-4 record. I’m not convinced this team is on the precipice of greatness. So the leap towards contention probably requires far more off-season work than is currently possible — with only $1.7m in effective cap space and four draft picks.
So what’s going to happen?
I still think this could go either way. There’s a reason why the Wilson camp used the word ‘fluid’ when describing the situation to both Mike Florio and Colin Cowherd.
And while people aren’t doing anything wrong in assuming a trade this year is unlikely because of the dead cap hit, I wouldn’t bet against anything at this point.
***UPDATE #1***
Seahawks’ QB Russell Wilson has not demanded a trade, his agent Mark Rodgers told ESPN. Wilson has told the Seahawks he wants to play in Seattle but, if a trade were considered, the only teams he would go to are the Cowboys, Saints, Raiders, Bears.
— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) February 25, 2021
***UPDATE #2***
Russell Wilson does not expect to be traded as of now, and Seattle has not approached Wilson with any potential deals, sources say. But multiple league execs believe Seattle will eventually make Wilson available because of brewing tension. This will get nothing but interesting.
— Jeremy Fowler (@JFowlerESPN) February 25, 2021
So in the last four days this is what has happened:
— Michael Silver, who has close connections to the Seahawks and broke the news of the 2017/18 reset before it happened, reported what the starting point for negotiations was (three first round picks)
— Mark Rodgers, Wilson’s agent, leaks to Adam Schefter the four teams he’s willing to be traded to (Vegas, Chicago, New Orleans, Dallas)
— Jeremy Fowler reports multiple league executives believe Seattle will eventually make Wilson available
If you weren’t aware already, this is getting serious.
If you missed my podcast with Corbin Smith yesterday, check it out below:
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To actually give the team a list of teams that he would accept a trade to is on another level. He clearly wants out. At this point with Pete in control I’m growing more and more convinced we won’t see Wilson in a Seahawks Uniform again. Crazy times!
True Robby! It is very difficult seeing the situation deescalating.
Robbie… sorry on the spelling!!
I also see it as Russ drawing a line in the sand and standing on his convictions. In other words, he’s not just blowing smoke and if this is the direction the FO wants to go then he will play ball flexing the only real power he has by being able to select his potential destination.
I feel like a child whose parents are in an argument and divorce is mentioned.
I think it is likely. Both believe they can win their way.
If I continue the divorce metaphor, I hope Russell Wilson gets custody.
Please not. If RW gets custody he is going to take DK 🙁
But imagine all the safeties and linebackers we could get with all those picks!!!
Don’t forget all the pass catching TEs they could get! You know, the ones who they make block all the time.
I don’t like the idea of Wilson going elsewhere, but if he does, which team that is rumored as the destination would you like the best if they send their qb our way?
Saints – Winston?
Dolphins – Tua?
Jets – Darnold?
Raiders – Carr?
I’m not sure I like any of them!
How about just swap Wilson for Watson and see if the grass truly is greener with a different team for each of them?
This crazy year is getting even more crazy!!
Go Hawks!
Not a fan of Watson’s injury history.
Carr isn’t elite but I think he’s better than a lot of fans give him credit for.
Wilson and Penny for Carr, Josh Jacobs, and Trayvon Mullen. Maybe swap picks to add to the deal.
That would be horrible trade compensation…
Yeah. You would need Carr plus a spitload of draft picks. Even then it doesn’t sound very good.
That’s a fair point Coach, but I think it has to be more about the picks.
Dolphins and Jets have a treasure trove of picks. Just because they have QBs that they’d want to move on from doesn’t mean the Seahawks have to take a QB back as part of that deal.
Tua would make sense, a young QB who is just about good enough with a run game and doesn’t turn it over. I like Winston but he’s about as far from Pete’s brand of football as possible.
If it were up to me, Wilson should stay, but if we have to let him go, Watson is the only QB that’s not a bad joke of a replacement. I’m not sold on drafting a QB, maybe Lawrence would be an option but that’s not happening and the others don’t seem to be much better than Tua.
I don’t think Russ would green-light a trade to Houston directly. That team is a wreck right now. It would probably have to be a multiple team trade, possibly with NO where we get Watson, Russ goes to the Saints and Jameis goes to the Texans plus all the other draft capital required to make it happen.
Miami makes a lot of sense if you can get Tua and #3.
You draft one of Wilson, Lance or Fields and let them compete. Deal the loser of the competition in 2022 or 2023 for a 2nd round pick
That way you get two swings at replacing RW on two cheap contracts.
Tua and #3 would be laughably small compensation ain’t it?
I’d at minimum expect Tua, #3, R2, next year R1 and R2.
Not straight up. In a package I meant.
Nonono on Tua. I don’t understand the calling on here by many for a trade with Miami that includes Tua, a failed early first round pick who played for a ‘professional team’ in college that was clearly better than everybody else but Clemson. I know Rob likes Mac Jones, and I’m normally with you Rob on your fabulous research of draft picks and predictions!…. but this less mobile mediocre qb is the next Alabama qb to be considered a bust if drafted in the first, imv. They’re oline and skill positions are just so superior to everybody else, hard to fail as qb there.(also think Sarkisian was a great OC, though not keen for him as an HC)
I love Davis Mills. His ceiling is off the charts, he reminds me of Andrew Luck with arm, accuracy, and fluidity/smarts in the pocket. Fair enough on actual ‘game tape’ as Rob has said about him, but I’d take Miami’s 3 in the first, and another first and second (and maybe a third, with two of the picks this year and the other two next) for Wilson without hesitation…. then try to trade that 3 in the first this year to move back a bit for another second or third as long as we could FOR SURE get Mills in the first round.
I’m a begrudging David Shaw fan, not just for his record at a (top QB) school like Stanford – a school that doesn’t give a crap about football – but also because he’s been honest over the years in his critiques and evaluation of his own team and others in the P12. (I’m a long time Dawg, he’s been a burr in Washington and also Oregon’s and USC’s foot for a while.) Listen to him here about Mills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYqT11aCoXc
For me, Russell looks a bit stiff, chubby and slow more and more as he ages, and his off the field stuff – as Rob and former Hawk players have highlighted – fx, him throwing the oline under the bus, and then there’s this dorky GQ photo shoot, man the sunglasses picture is just laughable, can see him practicing that teenage pose in the mirror with his wife. https://www.gq.com/story/russell-wilson-ciara-march-modern-lovers-cover. Who names their child Win? Imagine the abuse on the playground. He and Chiara live in a fantasy called Neverland.
Personally, I’d like to move on from Russell while he’s still at ‘the top’ of his game for picks. I wouldn’t want to block for that arrogant wanker. This is not a defense of Pete Carroll in any way, in full agreement with Rob’s take on him and a lack of accountability with absent ownership. Seahawks right now feels a bit like Pete’s last year or two at USC before the program completely fell off the cliff. Yikes.
Well, I’ve offered quite a nuanced opinion on Mac Jones.
I think he’s a good fit for the San Francisco offense and I suspect the Niners will strongly consider drafting him.
I think in a timing offense that relies on getting the ball out quickly, he is well suited.
But I’ve also highlighted how a lack of arm strength causes problems when throwing downfield and in the red zone. His Georgia tape I cringe when watching some of the throws. And I think he throws quite a few contested passes into tight windows that at the next level, he won’t get away with.
Player evaluation is rarely as simple as like or dislike. It’s a balancing of pro’s and con’s, scheme/team fit and upside.
For some teams Mac Jones can be a success, for others not so much. I am not convinced the Seahawks will be interested in him.
“For some teams Mac Jones can be a success, for others not so much. I am not convinced the Seahawks will be interested in him.”
I don’t see this at all, except that the Seahawks aren’t interested. (and I’m with you on Shanahan as a great offensive coach.) Would prefer sticking with Jimmy and upgrading their oline over Jones. I hate the Niners, would love for them to take Jones in the first round.
I don’t see him as a great success in any system as a first round pick, he’s gonna stink it up in the bigs based on what I’ve seen… physically he’s a classic great college player, and scheme-wise/personnel-wise he plays for a team that is like an NFL squad on the oline with skill postion players to match. (was in total agreement with you on Tua, by the way, never got the love for him) I’d prefer Jimmy over him if I was Niner fan, for sure, but maybe take a 3rd or 4 round flyer on him as a back up carrying a clipboard on sideline to learn the offense.
You’ve also written about Davis Mills a bit, I’d take him in the mid to later first if we traded Wilson for a haul of picks. Would you?
Mariota over Carr.
Yeah, I’d also go for Mariota in that scenario.
As others have mentioned, Rob was way out in front on this. Feels weird to watch the news catch up.
In my opinion, outside of a QB, the trading team wouldn’t be offering much in the way of offensive players. I don’t see why Wilson would want to go somewhere that was depleting it’s draft stock, OL, and targets/RB. I think a trade for a QB, Mariotta/Carr/Darnold/Tua makes some sense, but hopefully isn’t the primary compensation. I’d still be hoping for those 3 #1s, and then a few good players, with the players most likely being on the defensive side of the ball.
If Wilson is traded, I unfortunately guess that Carroll is going to keep all of his Safeties and Linebackers. I’m really hung up on that issue tbh, I just don’t see how a successful roster can be constructed in such a way.
I see Pete going for another historic defense and basic ball control offense. He probably won’t achieve it, but he will try. Any accumulation of picks will skew toward that scenario.
Not historic but in 2011 Seahawks had the #9 defense in the league plus Lynch and finished 7-9 with Hassleback as their QB.
The 2011 team had Tarvaris Jackson and Clipboard Jesus at QB. Whitehurst started 2 games, Jackson the rest.
Good catch. Hassleback was there in 2010.
“Rob was way out in front on this”
…as usual!
Carr is like Matt Hasselbeck in terms of being a solid starter if there are good enough pieces around him.
Mariota isn’t good in any scenario. He can show flashes here and there, but he’s not good.
In the NFL, crazy accounting practices take place all the time to maneuver around the cap. In the bylaws, Wilson can pay back $30 million of his signing bonus and have that returned in a restructured extension with the team trading for him. This makes sense for a team like the Saints who kick the can down the road yearly and have a substantial hit on their cap for Brees this year already. Give me your 1st this year along with your 3rd and 2nd next year with escalators attached that could make it a first if said escalators are reached. The Saints would also have to include Marshon Lattimore, Andrus Peat or both. Teams like the Dolphins and Jets can make it happen with just draft pick compensation and their current QB. This also sets the stage to be able to move Bobby or get an extension done to lower his cap. Though a marvelous person and player, over $20 million committed to just two LBs is kinda obsurd and not how you want to go about building the team foundation for the future.
Ryan ramczyk Would work as well!!!
God, what a shitshow. I’m losing faith in both Wilson and the FO at this point for letting things get this far. I do think Russell could succeed in a Waldron offence, but it seems that there’s a real lack of trust that might have pushed the situation past fixing.
In terms of a trade, I’m not excited by anyone other than Watson, and even there a couple of big injuries freak me out. Maybe into one of those top two draft spots to get one of the top guys? I’m not really an expert on them.
Feels like there are 3 options
A) Give Russ more input over playbook and personnel
B) Trade Russ
C) Keep Russ and bet on “but PC can smooth over any rough edges with his magical culture”
A and B are beneficial to the Hawks, C is the muddiest, harshest path. A and B require some PC/JS ego-checking. C does not.
Would love to keep Wilson.. but not optimistic about Carroll changing his views.
Plus how much confidence can Wilson have in Carroll. He took back everything after two games last year and would likely do it again. This just feels like it is going to be B as lomg as Carroll is here, and we all know Pete is here until there’s an ownership change.
Option D. Fire Carrol & hire Leftwich or Bienemy. Go all in on Russ. I think the drop off from Russ to any non-Watson QB would be worse than the drop off from Pete to another coach. Not that I think this will happen.
Rob an amazing amount of detailed content. Thank you for that. Always love the bogboard as well.
The podcast with you and corbin was outstanding. Great debate on two offseason plans. I still believe your way with trading Adams and Wagner is best.
Even if Wilson is traded, i still believe trading Adams and Wagner should follow.
Still build the trenches for whoever the new QB will be.
The Athletic article only points out what you have been saying since before the 2020 season even started. You were so far Ahead of all of this.
It has been great to be able to have your site which always seems to be ahead of the others and puts an unbiased opinion out there for all of us to debate.
You have created a great home for the true Seahawks fan to be able to discuss the team in a real un watered down environment. To the point, fact written pieces along with all the other content just continues to evolve. The added pieces from Cha, and separate with Robbie have been wonderful additions as well.
Now we get to add 4 destinations possibilities to the discussion. Thanks for all your hard work, it’s greatly appreciated.
thanks Scot
Excellent write up Rob, great points made about how this really is a fluid situation that could go either way. I kept thinking that Pete & Wilson would hole up in a room and work it out because it’s in both of their best interests to do so…but after what has been put out this week, I’m not sure anymore. I truly think that Russ is being pushed by those in his camp to make something happen now, where as in the past he may have been willing to let things go for the sake of winning.
But you are right, they can’t go into next season as it is with just patching things up some. There needs to be a clear path for both QB and team to coexist or they need to part ways now. Crazy to think that! So while I still think they figure it out together, we are closer than ever to a split!
If they do part ways, I think the two most logical scenarios are these:
1) The Raiders just make too much sense if it’s a straight 2-team trade. The Seahawks would get a good haul back plus their choice of serviceable QB’s (Carr or Mariota) to run the offense. If they got enough compensation, they could even build up the OL & DL and still be competitive in the NFC. And we know Gruden loves Russ! LV would offer everything Russ could want as well. I think this is the most likely scenario if a trade happens…
2) Some type of 3-team deal where Russ ends up with the Payton & the Saints. The Saints don’t really have the resources to make a straight deal for Wilson, and they are in cap hell. But, they are a smart group and could find a way to make something come together…remember last year when they tried to get really creative at the last minute to get Clowney! I could see Payton doing something crazy to make it happen! And Russ would be thrilled to play in that system and for him.
Please not Mariota.
Whether true or not, the narrative has become Russ vs. Pete.
If Russ simply wanted to move on to a bigger market, it’d be easier for me to get on board with a trade.
But if the only reason he wants out is because he has lost faith in (as Rob puts it) a nearly 70 year old coach, and Russ is happy with the Seahawks otherwise, then this just becomes frustrating and annoying.
Imagine a world where Pete retired or moved on, and Schneider hired his own coach that would enact his vision over the next 5 years.
Instead we are stuck with Pete controlling everything, including alienating his star QB and potentially running him out of town.
It feels so unnecessary.
Sadly this is it : Russ vs Pete. And the thing is things have changed for Russ on multiple fronts : his on field ability to ‘escape’, his willingness to do whatever it takes to win(set aside his own thoughts etc), and now finally speaking out(directly and indirectly) both for his own interests and against some of Pete’s ways.
Pete hasn’t been changing. Same philosophies on team building and towards wining with Pete ball.
Usually in life these types of relationship scenarios end up parting ways as one person is increasing frustrated and unhappy and the other person is unwilling to see things and make real changes that benefit the relationship moving forward.
The problems are twofold 1) Pete doesn’t seem like the type to set aside his ego and his philosophies and make real significant changes moving forward, 2) there are real obstacles to overcome even if the two do want to part ways – salary cap implications, Pete’s legacy, the Seahawks near term winning prospects(and if we have some poor seasons we give away our next two 1st round draft picks…), Russ having to uproot personally/family and with local charity/business ties as well, trade compensation prospects, and more to be sure. Point is it would’nt be easy and I’m sure both sides know this.
Even with all of the real issues being exposed I still think positive Pete will think he can appease Russ and place his hopes upon getting some O-line help and a new TE along with Waldron. Will it be a success? I doubt it – this team has too many holes/lacking talent and not enough resources and Pete and John have never shown either the aptitude nor the willingness to do anything but piecemeal roster changes and often enough of late not even for the better.
I think it will be a full season of apprehension and waiting for anything bad to happen on or off the field and at some point things will crack and start to go sour with more media speak/tweets flying around until next off-season where Russ realizes he has to come out and demand a trade because Pete is Pete and our team isn’t that good and he wants better from both his head coach and the talent around him on the football field.
Great piece, Rob. I completely agree. In reference to the cap hit, don’t we also need to factor in RW’s replacement? I mean, unless they’re going to play a drafted QB (unlikely, I think), we’re probably looking at a FA signing to start in ’21?
Also, interesting that he mentioned the Jets as an option for trade. A team that is not close to competing. How does that play into this ‘legacy’ thing? I don’t think it does – I think he knows they have resources and that’s enough for him. That’s telling with regards to how desperate this is for RW.
I’d trade RW for Darnold and two firsts. I, for one, think Darnold is being held down in a bad situation year after year. Would need to beef up the OL, of course, but that’s regardless of who’s taking snaps.
So you’re saying 2xR1 and a mediocre player?
I know it’s early R1s but still…we gave up 2xR1, R3 an OK player for that bloody Adams…I’d cry
1. I don’t think Darnold is mediocre. No one would have been successful on that team in that situation. In his first 3 years he’s had 2 head coaches, 3 offensive coordinators, illness (mono), bad shoulder injury, and a bottom 5 OL. Peak Aaron Rodgers would’ve struggle in that situation. I think new surroundings would be huge for him.
2. Our terrible and desperate overpay for Adams doesn’t mean anything when it comes to what RW’s value. I mean, i could remind you that Hopkins was traded for a RB and a R2. But past deals don’t mean anything.
I don’t think you deal him to the Jets for anything less than Darnold plus #2, #23 (our own pick), and our own pick back in 2022. Lots of options with that #2 as teams will definitely want to trade into that slot for one of the QB’s after Lawrence!
I’d do that trade yesterday, but I fear that’s asking too much. I hope I’m wrong.
Maybe so, but I think the Jets relationship with Darnold isn’t great right now so they might look at him as a throw in. Then they give up only one of their own native picks, albeit a high one. The other two weren’t their original picks, and a trade like this still leaves them with considerable draft capital.
Russ gets more say in the offense and personnel, while he and Ciara get to live and market themselves in the Big Apple!
Could work Ross!
I would join Dani in crying also if we traded Russ to the Jets for only Darnold and two R1s.
Darnold hasn’t proven anything yet and I bet if the Jets tried to trade him now, they’d be lucky to get a 2nd round pick. To me, he’d be a nice throw in to the picks that we’d want.
Given that Wilson is a proven established for his 9 years in the NFL (even if he’s not quite elite yet), I agree w/Simo that the baseline has to be the # 2 pick this year and our two 1st rounders and maybe another pick. If Darnold gets included, it’s fine but he’s not a make or break piece of a deal.
The main problem, is you could have two #1 overall picks (which we obviously wont be getting that), and you still are very unlikely to find a QB of Wilson’s caliber. That assumes you pick the right QB too. There’s only a QB like him every couple of draft classes.
Assume you trade him for a haul of four 1st round picks. Even from a historically bad team, maybe that buys you a 4% chance of drafting a QB of Wilson’s caliber. Optimistically, in a best case scenario. Dont forget, those picks are gonna be less valuable after year 1, because wilson is gonna at least make that bad team respectable and pick in the middle or latter end of round 1, outside of the good QB range.
Mike – I understand your point but we don’t have to hit on a great QB. IF Pete/John draft well with their bounty of picks and build another tough D and dangerous running game, we already have DK and Lockett so the next QB just have to be competent and not lose us games.
I agree with Rob’s premise. If the relationship is broken then we should trade Russ for what we can get and try to build the team to match what Pete envisions.
A tough D and running game are no longer a guarunteed recipe for NFL success. A great quarterback always gives you a chance to compete. Trading an elite quarterback like Wilson and replacing him with a competent quarterback protected by this offensive line gets us nowhere. And if Wilson couldn’t deliver with Lockett and DK for the wildcard game, what makes you think a lesser quarterback will do any better? We had a great D and Marshawn Lynch in 2013. Do you think we would have won Super Bowl 48 with Matt Flynn at quarterback?
While not a fan of losing Russ, atleast the 4 teams he listed can provide reasonable return.
I did a offseason start for all 4 before today. Here’s the Raiders option.
Offseason pre draft start option with Russell Wilson trade to Raiders:
Seahawks get huge haul to take 39M cap hit
Wilson to Raiders for Derek Carr, Josh Jacobs, 2021 picks 17 & 48, 2022 1st, 2023 1st
Bobby Wagner to Jacksonville for 2021 picks 65 & 146
Jamal Adams to Baltimore for Orlando Brown Jr. & 2021 pick 104
( Trade made with extension & agreement to play RT for 2021. )
Franchised Griffin to Cleveland 2021 pick 110
Seahawks make agreement to resign Carlos Dunlap to 3 year 30M
Seahawks extend Jaran Reed
Seahawks extend Tyler Lockett
2021 Draft Picks
17, 48, 56, 65, 104 110, 129, 146, 160, 209
Seahawks pay up early to get O-line done early
Free-agency
Seahawks Sign Free-agent Center Corey Linsely to 3 year 35M (18M Guaranteed)
Seahawks Sign Free-agent Guard Joe Thuney to 4 year 58M (30M Guaranteed/15M signing bonus)
Offensive Starters:
LT: Dwayne Brown
LG: Joe Thuney
C: Corey Linsley
RG: Damien Lewis
RT: Orlando Brown Jr
QB: Derek Carr
RB1: Josh Jacobs
WR1: Tyler Lockett
WR2: Dk. Metcalf
TE1: Will Dissley
WR3: TBD
Appreciate all you put into that and some good stuff there, but the Pete would never decimate his defense like that. That team would get absolutely hammered defensively and have no leadership at all. I think if you are trading Wilson for a huge haul like that, then you extend both Wagner and Adams to lower their cap hits for this year. Then resign Dunlap and Reed to extensions, add to the OL through the draft & FA.
Carr or Mariota could be good enough to run the Waldron offense and the defense would stand a chance to be good…
I do think the Raiders make a lot of sense if a trade happens.
I guess that’s fair, but I don’t see trading Adams and Wagner as decimating your defense.( Especially Adams)
The additional cap space still available and draft capital would fill out the defense with hungry vets and an infusion of youth mixed. As stated, that’s offseason pre draft start to offseason.
I think Pete (and KNJ) really want to see if they can make the defense great by combining Wagner and Adams this coming season. I feel like everything was just a mess for the beginning of last season and it took a while to figure out. There were so many factors that made it really hard for the defense. And I will agree that they played inferior offenses in the second half, but they did get better. Still a long ways to go but I think they have some pieces on defense now. Taking Adams and Wagner away from it, will just set them back further…Pete wants to win now, not in 2-3 years.
Sadly agree that’s possible and will likely be the reason they lose their Franchise QB.
Crazy how many resources put into LB and Safety, especially if it costs you Russell. Remember Carroll has a losing record without him.
Wouldn’t that be ironic. All RW needed for the Hawks to get the line he wanted was to get traded!
No kidding right!! I’ll bet Derek Carr would be happy with that OL though!
https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/1365003647692726279
RW image could be taking a bit of a hit
https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/1365003335728791553
“PC regards himself as a problem solver, and he’s not looking to rebuild. This was a source of tension all season. Belief in the building he had MVP fever and was forcing things.”
I think that too…Russ wants to be the best, he wants to win SB, Russ wants to win MVP. He doesn’t think as a team…obviously every player wants to be elite/legendary in their own rights, but I feel it’s shifted for Wilson and he would sacrifice team interests for his own gain.
I’d love to know what D.Brown, Lockett, DK, Carson thinking about the situation (not the nice comments they make in the media, but truly)
Really peeling back the layers of last years disfunction. Storming out of a meeting?! Yikes. And it makes sense given how much Wilson’s camp is talking. Russ it pissed. Freaking Pete Carroll! Maybe Jody Allen will fire him and give Shannahan a dump truck full of money.
In the end I just don’t see Pete giving up anything. But he needs to. How does he want to end his legacy? An old stubborn man who lost a HOF qb, or a wise old man who realized the reality around him, adapted and won another ring.
All those people insisting this was a whole load of nothing sure look smart right now…
It’s OK, one reporter’s decided to play the victim…
https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1364993544436465669
OMG
That is one of the stranger comebacks I have seen. Airing family problems for all the world to see is never a good idea.
Luckily he has time to rebuff people on twitter amidst all he has going on.
VERY good point. What a tool.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1365005783486840834
Rapsheet confirms the details of the Athletic story.
‘During SB teams sensed things in SEattle not great, started calling JS. To my knowledge, not much engagement by JS. More than 10 teams have called.’
I don’t think the Seahawks would trade Russ this year. But even if they were inclined to, I don’t think they can. Recall that Russell has a no-trade clause; you have to find a team that can offer a deal that the Seahawks like but would *also* put Russ in a situation he likes.
On his podcast, Michael Shawn floated the following possibilities:
* Jacksonville: Seahawks get the #1 pick plus some other stuff so they like that. But Jacksonville is a bad team and they’re more than a QB away from being a competitor, and Russ wants to compete. So why would Russ do this deal?
* Vegas: Apparently on the list of teams Russ would be willing to go to. But why would the Seahawks do this? To get Derek Carr? To get a pile of mid-late picks (Vegas picks at 17 this year and with Russ they’d probably have picks in the 20s for the next few).
* Houston: this is everyone’s favorite fantasy trade, but why would Russ want to go to an obviously dysfunctional team that’s completely bereft of draft capital?
* Dallas: you could imagine Dak signing a franchise tag and then trading Dak for Russ. But the Seahawks would have to sign Dak to a contract that probably makes him even pricier than Russ, and Russ isn’t as good. So why would the Seahawks do this?
I’ll add one more to the list, the one I think would be the likeliest: the Jets. They have four first rounders over the next two years, they could probably package three of them with Darnold which I think the Hawks would take. Meanwhile they’re a team with a stud at LT who also have a ton of cap space to build a line and get some weapons.
This will not be an issues… at all.
Vegas, Miami, New Orleans.
They are three teams to monitor, IMO.
Read the rest of my post? 🙂
None of those teams have the draft capital to make a deal worth it from Seattle’s POV, I think. Of course this assumes the Seahawks are behaving rationally; if they’re just in full-on YOLO mode then all bets are off.
Assume Russ improves any of the above teams (except maybe the Saints), so the 2021 pick number is sort of a floor on where you expect to land with any first rounders.
Vegas can offer Carr and the 2021 #17. Miami is intriguing but per the stuff from his agent Russ isn’t interested. New Orleans can offer 2021 #28.
Are the Seahawks willing to part with Wilson for a bunch of picks in the late teens and twenties? Seems unlikely to me.
I did. I often only reply to specific quotes to shorten messages.
Anyone has the capital.
If the Bears offer Khalil Mack and three first round picks, maybe a second too — that’s a good deal.
If the Saints offer three picks, Thomas, Cam Jordan and second rounder, that’s a good deal.
If the Raiders offer Carr or Mariota, three firsts and two seconds, that’s a good deal.
etc etc
And if Wilson asks to leave, I’m sorry but it’s over. You get the best deal.
Yeah, if you’re willing to throw in players to sweeten the pot that changes things quite a bit. Though in 2/3 cases above you’re left without a QB and without a viable way of finding one. Unless you’re going to draft a guy with the 28th pick and start him which I think falls under the full YOLO mode scenario.
But the crux of the deal, if Wilson asks to be traded and the position become untenable, will not depend solely on getting a legit starting QB in return.
That would be nice. But it is what it is.
It might mean trading for someone else. Or drafting a QB. Of which there are two options I think might be available outside of R1 who have a shot to make it.
This is the cost of not ceding to Wilson. It’s the choice Seattle has. Make him happy and PC concede your iron grip on the offense and team philosophy, or you’re going to have to try and find a replacement.
And right now, it doesn’t seem like Carroll is going to cede anywhere near enough.
The grim part of a scenario that has our Hawks not getting a proven QB back is we gave up the next two 1st round picks to the Jets and if we play losing football (which we surely would with a subpar/rookie QB) then we lose huge team building draft picks. Pete and John would have to be aware of this.
Yeah I agree the question here is ultimately Pete and his awareness / stubbornness.
Like the most likely scenario for the Seahawks post-Wilson is a few bad seasons. Does Carroll really want that to be his legacy? The guy who torpedoed his franchise out of pride?
Bleh, frustrating time to be a fan. 🙁
Miami absolutely have the draft capital. They’ve got 3, 18, 36, and 50 this year, and if that’s not enough they could throw in a 1st or 2nd next year. They can make Tua a part of the package, and if the Hawks don’t want him, they could prob get a 2nd back for him.
I think Miami and Vegas are the only two possibilities. Cowboys will re-sign Dak, Saints can’t afford him (no interest in a bunch of picks in the late ’20s). But Miami makes the most sense, they’re a guaranteed playoff team with Russ and they don’t have to mortgage future picks to get him in.
Davis Mills with one of those first or second round picks and we’re cool.
I would be so happy to move on from Wilson to Mills.
He’s a calculated risk from lack of ‘tape’ in college as Rob has pointed out, but Stanford’s been a top QBU over the years, and his ceiling is worth the risk. Also trust David Shaw on his blunt opinions. He’s straight up on evaluations of players.
Bottom line is the package to make it worth trading Russ for , isn’t a package teams are going to offer IMO. Guess time will tell if I’m right or not. Certainly don’t feel the four team Russ supposedly said he accept a trade to (Cowboys,Saints, Raiders, Bears) would give him that “ideal” situation he supposedly wants, nor do I see those team ante up the kind of package needed. Russ is going to remain a Seahawk for this season at least. Book it.
Written in December…
https://seahawksdraftblog.com/how-the-playoffs-could-help-shape-seattles-future-with-wilson
prescient
You are always thinking ahead, Rob! Thanks for all you do!
When I first saw this in December I thought no way. Then after I digested what you said I began to worry about what would happen if we lost early in the playoffs and then we lost.
Like a prophet most of what you said has come true, unfortunately. All I can say is I am very thankful for this forum and your great incite Rob keep up the good work it is much appreciated.
Adam Schefter..
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1365007710496948239
“Wilson has told the Seahawks he wants to play in Seattle but, if a trade were considered, the only teams he would go to are the Cowboys, Saints, Raiders, Bears.”
Schefter finally weighs in. Interesting.
It’s not a story though…
“Deny everything, Baldrick.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BxFlmb6S6E
What a programme
Don’t make them like that any more
Gregg Bell posting under the name “Rob Staton”??
?
that meme
Ahhh gotcha
The Bears??? Really? Wow…
As hard as I try, I just cannot picture Russ in a Cowboys uniform…
RW: I need to escape the drama. Trade me to Dallas.
Seahawks: LOL OK sure.
Makes me voimit
That one surprised me as well. Trade Pete ball for Nagy ball? They’re likely losing their only good WR to FA too.
Offensive minded coach
Big market
Likely some semblance of control
Chance to be a hero in Chicago
Does it get cold in Chicago? Also, if he has a stretch like he did the 2nd half of last season, the fans will eviscerated him. He has yet to face the full force of a long established, unforgiving football town.
I also think given he practically guarantees the playoffs every year that starved Bears fans will be simply happy to have him
If Russ thinks the Seahawks line is bad, he wouldn’t enjoy Chicago.
No weapons either, and pretty tight against the cap. Seems an odd fit for him but I’m sure the Bears would happily trade the farm.
Nagy and Pace know they’re gone next year if they don’t put it together.
+ a potential reunion with Ifedi 😀 😀 😀
Would love to see him in the Windy City. Always liked the Bears, but, if he fails to lift them to a Super Bowl for the cost, that’s the Big Leagues press and fans wise.
Seattle’s the minor league. Weak critical fans, and terrible critical media. Used to love Bob Condotta when he covered the dogs and was blunt about things good or bad, even in the Don James era. Now he read as a politically correct scribe for The Times. Keep calling it like it is, Rob, an Englishman no less!
This news makes me less worried. My belief is that RW wants to evaluate things for another year, and he knows that 1. if a team trades for him, their roster must already be solid, because they would have to give up players and picks to get him there (not the case with Jets and Dolphins for example) and 2. he’s got a better shot at MVP here with Lockett and Metcalf than anywhere else.
You honestly think he wants to waste another year of his career? Because I strongly disagree.
He wants them to do what he’s made very clear. And if they don’t things can accelerate quickly.
Not playing Carroll ball he hasn’t.
I agree with you, if we sign only a TE in free agency and draft a LB with pick 56, he’s out the door. But if we make the right roster moves and involve him in decision making, he will play 2021 in Seattle and then reconsider his options.
Well that’s bad news for trades. 3 NFC Teams.
Better be hoping you fix things with Russell or Raiders come up big.
With all this drama it feels like a russell wilson is inevitable. We just need to find the right team and capitalize on the return we get. I am pushing for russell to go to Miami.
Any particular reason?
Personally I’m not sold on Tua. Not at all. He’s already had serious injuries and I am not sure he’s stellar let alone solid, even in PC’s system.
I just think that is the best team for russell to go to. Miami is a rising team. They almost made the playoffs this year. And I want to still root for Russ. And I think that we could get a really good trade package from them for Russell.
Its more probable than not that Seahawks do not win another Super Bowl with Russ. Most qbs who win super bowls do so within the first five years of their career. Extremely rare is it for qbs to win Super Bowls with five season or more gaps between wins.
If Seahawks can pull of a trade before this draft with Dolphins or Jets for both 1st round pics this year one next year, a second or third this year and maybe a little more and a player. If they have an idea of a rookie qb they really like, they should do it, assuming the second first round pic goes towards Harris or Williams as a running back. Otherwise they should probably hear Wilson out a bit and give it one more shot.
For me on a trade this year it isnt about the cap hit. I think Russ does want to make it work in Seattle and hopefully Pete and Russ can meet somewhere in the middle. If it just doesnt work out then next year the team will have to choose Russ or Pete. We talk all the time about trading Russ but I think we should also talk about them firing Pete. With professional sports the players make more money than the coaches so its usually the coach that goes. Ive also seen many reports that Waldron was picked by Russ and if that is true why wouldnt he want to give it a shot. Either way I think this is over by the end of April as I just dont see them trading him after the draft. Firing Pete maybe.
I really hope todays news doesn’t overshadow LJ Collier’s defiant statement that he was going to have an amazing third season…
(After his superstar breakout sophomore season, per Nate Burleson)
I mean, why do we care about having a QB at all with such a star in our roster…
Maybe Collier plans to place a near lethal dose of cayenne pepper into his cleats and socks to get that first step peppered up…
I also think this off-season is confirming what a lot of us kind of already knew.
The best days of the Carroll era are gone.
And there’s a reasonable chance we’re entering a shit period of Seahawks football.
You wonder how Paul Allen would have handled this? Just close them in a room and say figure it out? Trade Russ? Fire Pete? Jody is going to have to put her big boy pants on. Personally I think its time to replace Pete, it would help Russ and probably John at the same time. Would our culture take a hit, probably.
I doubt Paul Allen would’ve let it get this far, one way or another
No chance in hell he allows this BS
An argument could be made we’re already there. It’s just people have accepted that they’ve been told it doesn’t stink.
“it’s just people have accepted that they’ve been told it doesn’t stink.”
I guess it depends on what’s your definition of stink? Is it playoffs and division championship (this year) is it 0-16 Browns, it is Detroit Lions, is it anything short of super bowl? Is it mariners missing 20 straight playoffs?
At the end of the day the recipes can be different but it’s the end result that matters.
To me i see a flawed FO and a flawed QB arguing on who’s flawed way is best to proceed.
I’ll step in for BobbyK on this string and say you’re absolutely correct and want to call names but on that I’ll refrain. The end of competitive Seahawks football is nigh folks and it’s 100% on Pete Carroll
At this rate, Waldron better be the next coming of McVay. And Pete’s gotta go the Bruce Arians route of coaching relaxation.
The unlikelihood of both or either of those happening scares me.
We need to get Josina on the case.
Well duh
I bet we could get a good offensive line if we trade this drama queen
I’m literally begging you to come back here after he’s gone and stand up and remind us of this post.
All I know is if we trade Russell is I don’t want to see him in the NFC.
Raiders
Yep the Raiders make too much sense, unless we work a trade for Prescott with the Cowboys (they franchise him and trade him).
I could see that
And my level of despisal for the Cowboys would make me never root for him again. I like the Raiders so would be easier to root for him plus they’re in the AGC so that would make it easier as well.
I would certain take someone like Dak though.
No, a million times no.
1) he wants too much money. And he’ll get it.
2) he’ll want a certain amount of system control too.
Really? Would love to see Russell in the NFC for a haul of early round draft picks. If there’s one offense the current Hawks defense knows how to stop, it would be Russell’s. Ineffective nervous little man in the pocket with olinemen that let him get hit too much. Poor man! They would T-off.
I would be more concerned about Metcalf. Which of our corners could cover him? Buy hey, cut off the long ball and let Pete’s O shiit itself, DK included.
Russell Wilson does not expect to be traded as of now, and Seattle has not approached Wilson with any potential deals, sources say. But multiple league execs believe Seattle will eventually make Wilson available because of brewing tension. This will get nothing but interesting.
Jeremy fowler
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1365014508918476802?s=19
“There’s no benefit from dragging this out for another year and having 12 months of drama hanging over the franchise.”
I agree with this sentence on the whole.
However, one caveat.
The one benefit to dragging it out for another 12 months is avoiding bottoming out in a season when you don’t own your indigenous 1st round pick in the following draft. The Seahawks taking a huge step back in 2021 benefits the Jets, not the Seahawks.
True — but if they’re going to go down this path, they need to have a plan to make sure they don’t regress to that extent
If somehow Dallas can tag Dak and trade him for a high 1st, that paired with their own 1st and then next years 1st, that is a starting point for A Russ trade. Seahawks cannot move Russ without two 1st this year one of them being very high, and then a first next year as well as more. Do we know of any teams yet who have two 1st next year? (Jets!). Point being, Seahawks cannot settle for simply 3 or 4 firsts if none of them are going to be high picks, at least one needs to be top 5 or even 3.
If somehow the Jets were inclined to, they send their two pics to Dallas for a tagged Dak, Dallas sends their now three 1sts to Seattle as well as next years 1st and another player or pic in exchange for Russ. This type of deal could allow Seattle to quickly reload. Other teams like the dolphins or bears or raiders could make similar type moves to suddenly have multiple round one pics this year too, which could entice Seattle. All this has to happen by mid April of course.
You can’t bring in Dak on a $37m franchise tag after that injury.
If Dallas makes the move, make them rescind the tag on Dak or let him walk and get him on a prove-it deal.
I am saying the Jets would be acquiring Dak. And Dallas retains him by tagging him and then sends him to the Jets. And yes, the jets would theoretically need to have a deal lined up for Dak. Obviously, there is a lot unknown regarding Dak and his availability and his injuries. This is all hypothetical, i do not know enough about the jets or if Dak even interests them. But my scenario provides a way for a team (Dallas in this case) to acquire three 1st round pics this year which could go to Seattle (plus more) for Russ.
Dallas may tag Dak and keep him while trying to sign him longterm, much like last year. We will know soon enough what they do. It seems unlikely Dallas just lets him become an unrestricted free agent. But who knows.
Ah.
I think you’re right though — the injury is a big obstacle here. The talk last week is nobody will truly know the extent of his recovery until the summer.
And the Jets are going to run the Shanahan system, which — IMO — doesn’t require a big money QB. I guess we’ll see how that works without Shanahan but I wouldn’t be surprised if NYJ either kept Darnold this year or simply drafted Zach Wilson.
You’re right I am sure about the Jets offense. Mostly my point is a lot of these trades are non starters for me (but I am not in Seattle’s FO…). In exchange for Russ, Seattle needs at minimum, a high first this year and another first this year, and a first next year, and more. I pray PCJS do not trade Russ for a mid or late first round pic this year and a couple more unknown first round pics in the future. That would be disastrous.
Just updated the piece and added the following at the end:
“— Michael Silver, who has close connections to the Seahawks and broke the news of the 2017/18 reset before it happened, reported what the starting point for negotiations was (three first round picks)”
So… slightly more value than what we gave up for Adams…
Wonderful.
3 1st is the starting point
Yes, the starting point is slightly more value than we gave up for Adams…
Wonderful.
In optimal offseason Adams goes in a trade this year anyways yes Seahawks lose in the compensation overall, but sometimes mistakes are made.
The Adams trade was a desperate unnecessary deal.
I agree with Rob that Adams is the best way to add cap space and resources.
Shane Waldron must be so excited to get started.
Almost as excited as Schottenheimer was
Schefter’s most recent tweet repeated what he stated earlier today expect took out the part about Russ not demanding a trade … I guess that likely means Russ has demanded a trade?
I think he just went with a different wording
All i know is if they trade Wilson is that they realize there’s still a need to move resources. I’d still trade Adams and Wagner as well.
Agree completely would love to see a complete rebuild starting with OL / DL and finding the next franchise QB. Wish we had next years 1st though if we are going into rebuild mode. The Adams trade looks worse daily.
That’s fine to say that, but Pete & John are not going to “rebuild” – they are going to want to compete now! So only way I see them doing this is if they get a decent QB back and they can build up the defense and running game to stay competitive. Trading Wagner and Adams makes the defense worse, no matter what you think of those two players…
And personally, I don’t want to root for a young, rebuilding team while Pete is still the coach – that can wait until after he retires!
They can move all 3 in trades without doing a rebuild and stay a playoff team.
I don’t want to be traded. But these are the 4 teams I want to be traded to. Sounds about right for Rodgers and Wilson who are the most passive aggressive player /agent combo in the league.
If they can get (3) 1st + for him and figure out the dead cal hit. I say good riddance and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
I agree. I have to say, I was more excited for Matt Flynn in 2013 than I am for Russell Wilson in 2021.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1365016745073913856
That’s how it is done. You don’t shut things down on spec. Just acknowledge the reality.
Well, neither option is ideal from a cap perspective, as three’s sizable amounts of dead money either way. At least you get to spread the hit into two years with a post June 1 deal.
Trevor the Jets haven’t found a franchise QB in over 50 years, if it was that simple there would be 32 of them right now.
A point that is lost by many fantasy football GMs who say let’s roll the dice.
bingo
There may not be 32 but there are 15 and please don’t compare any team to the Jets.
Well, it seems a trade IS inevitable. I don’t know much about the cap, but if a trade were to happen, would the Seahawks want to trade him as soon as possible or would they wait until that June 1st that Rob has been speaking about?
Trade Him Now Positives: You acquire 2021 draft picks and get your rebuild started sooner. Also very likely you have higher leverage. The longer this drags out the lower the compensation could be. You also have a clean salary cap in 2022.
Trade Him Now Negatives: Take $39m dead cap number, which adds $7m to their current cap. Means they’d have to cut or seriously restructure some veteran players to get under the cap and their 2021 roster building would be hampered by the lack of cap room.
—
Trade him June 2 Positives: Cap hit for 2021 is only $13m and opens up $19m of cap room. You can bolster your roster with trades or signings more readily with that cap room – or roll it into 2022 to defray the $26m dead cap coming.
Trade him June 2 Negatives: Decreased trade leverage. You’ve missed out on the 2021 draft, so it’ll be a whole year before you see benefit. You don’t know where in the first round you’re picking in 2022 – RW on the new team would likely kick you out of picking in the top 10. Most prime free agents are gone as well. You’ve got over 10% of your 2022 cap spoken for with $26m of dead money.
I think it’s trade him now. There’s little chance Carroll gives into what Russell’s wants in order to keep him.
Let’s get really creative! We agree to a trade with Saints in principal, but not consummate the deal until after June 1st. The Saints can draft the players we want this year and then include them in the deal when the trade becomes official.
So it could look something like this:
Saints get:
Russell Wilson
Seahawks get:
2021 Rd 1 (28) Walker Little, OT
2021 Rd 3 (98) Quinn Meinerz, OC
2022 Rd 1
2022 Rd 3
G Andrus Peat
DT David Onyemata
So two firsts, two thirds, Peat & Onyemata. We would then have to go hard for one of the FA QB’s out there or make a trade. Dak would probably be too expensive, and trading for Watson probably isn’t happening. But there could be other possibilities along with drafting a rookie QB.
Craziness…
Then our draft looks like this:
56. Javonte Williams, RB
151. Benjamin St-Juste, CB
158. Tre Kitty, TE
168. Anthony Schwartz, WR
209. Erroll Thompson, LB
217. Tarron Jackson, EDGE
Missed out on Mond or Mills, so have to get a QB in FA or trade…
Saints draft looks like this:
28. Walker Little, OT (traded to Seahawks)
85. Tommy Togiai
98. Quinn Meinerz, OC (traded to Seahawks)
105. Ben Cleveland, OG
133. Cade Johnson, WR
167. William Bradley-King, EDGE
185. Tyler Vaughns, WR
195. Elijah Mitchell, RB
Your top three picks won’t be available in the range you have them
I know, but they were on the PFN SIM right now…I’m sure there will be quite a bit of changes to that as we move along.
They have the OC on your big board, Michael Menet, list at #316!
Funny Greg Bell had gone silent.
Oh no, now he’s deflecting by playng victim as Rob posted above. You apparently missed it. Here’s the link:
https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1364993544436465669
Too funny he know he is wrong so he plays the victim card after being an know all ass last week.
I can assure you Ciara is all over this decision. I’m surprised she doesn’t like Miami and does like New Orleans. Regardless, he will go where she wants to go first and foremost.
I can assure you that she likes New Orleans because she is addicted to beignets at Cafe du monde.
I can also assure you that she doesn’t like the Dolphins because aqua/orange doesn’t accent her complexion.
Well hell, how silly of me not to recognize these factors.
Seems like she would clearly prefer NY, and the Jets, over New Orleans, Chicago, Vegas, or Dallas! I agree she will have some significant input on where they go, but Russ must also be looking at places where he believes the team will be competitive sooner than later.
Hmmmm, good point. Maybe she only has one of his balls in a jar.
“Modern Lovers” and all (insert vomit emoji).
What’s Wilson’s agent reasoning for coming out in public with teams Wilson would accept trade to ?
Pressure
it really does take it to another level, that’s for sure. makes it WAY more tangible.
Because the FO leaked information regarding teams inquiring and them rebuffing
So Rodgers is retaliating saying “ok you want to let the media know teams are inquiring about Russ well i will tell my media buddies where we would only accept trades to since Russ has a no trade clause”
Part of me thinks he’s just stirring the pot. With the exception of Las Vegas, none of these teams have the stock to trade to the Seahawks to make it worth it. But they are offenses that would suit Russell. So you can throw those names out and get a reaction.
People keep saying they don’t have the stock.
Yes, they do.
It’s not a top five pick or else.
You can trade up to 4 years picks in advance, correct?
For the Bears, I don’t think that is enough. Those picks are going to be late if we deal them RW (a possibility with any of the teams mentioned). Using the rule of thumb that a 1st next year is comparable to a 2nd this year, and so on… It just seems like an underwhelming haul without some decent players in return.
The Saints at least have some players to give back, but the cap is still an issue and leaves us with no QB at all. Dallas is the same problem and I can’t see us getting Dak in return, while needing to pay the franchise tag and forfeit most of the draft capital we might otherwise get.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way, but LV makes the most sense to me if he has to be dealt from a Hawks POV, and RW won’t consider NY or MIA (due to defensive HC’s I assume?)
I proposed a Raiders trade earlier. They have plenty
They’re killing the negotiation for the Hawks…
If that list wouldn’t be public, Hawks could at least listen to offers from all teams, and they could start a bidding war.
For example Denver, LV and Miami are interested. LV would give up Carr plus 2x R1. Miami could say that their R1s are higher, they add Tua and a R2 too. Denver could say they add 3xR1 and 3x R2.
SEA could give back the MIA+DEN offer to LV and say Carr and 2xR1 is nice, but we could get 3 high R1s and R2s. We need more. And LV might say, ok: We can give you Carr, 2xR1, 2xR2 and 2xR3.
In this scenario, Russ’s camp just stole 2xR2 and 2xR3 from the team.
Obviously Hawks could make a bidding war between these 4 teams, but if 2 of them are not interested, that would only make 2 potential bidding teams.
Russ should’ve just say it to the team that he wants out, this is the 4 team he’d lift his no trade clause. And let the team do the rest…bring in any team they want as a smokescreen, but the team would know that the only potential suitors are LV, NO, DAL, CHI
Interesting article about the draft. My guess is if Hawks used Rob, they would be top 5. Little surprised Hawks were that high actually.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-historical-draft-success-for-all-32-nfl-teams
Explains a lot of what I was seeing and wondering about at the end of the season. Russ was so off, that he just seemed checked out, and didnt care at times. It wasnt normal Russ. This rift is real and deep if it actually broke Russ.
If that is the case then they should trade Russ for sure. He falls apart because they did not listen to his suggestions? You think Billicheck always listened to Brady!
Missing the point…PC took away the reigns from RW at the first sign of trouble despite him having a historic start to the season. If you don’t think that has a real impact on someone’s confidence, optimism and subsequent performance….I don’t know what to tell you.
Be pissed yes. Fall apart and loose confidence? Come on man he wanted to be the highest paid player in the league. You think Rodgers, Brady, Brees loose confidence and fall apart because the coach doesn’t listen to their ideas? Really come on.
DK Metcalf said teams had them figured out. Not sure what Russel wanted to do but what they were doing in the first half of the season wasn’t working anymore.
This isnt just the Cook book being stolen after week 7 imo. That’s probably just the tipping point. This is bigger than that. It’s wanting to be relevant again, and 3 seasons of wasted prime, with a subpar roster. We saw Rogers looking disengaged and checked for a few years there too.
It’s over – regardless of whether they trade RW this year or next or not at all. RW is clearly unwilling to continue playing PeteBall and Pete is clearly unwilling to cede control. There seems to be no middle ground. What was RW’s reaction to hearing that Pete thought RW had “MVP fever” and forced things? What does Pete think of RW’s list of teams? It’s an escalation and this soap opera has moved in one direction for a long time.
At this point, for me, the question turns to finding the solution that puts the Seahawks back in the Super Bowl most quickly. Being without a true owner, it’s quite likely that we have entered into a new shit era for years to come. I don’t believe that Paul Allen would have signed Pete to a new contract last year, but it is what it is. Pete ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. I simply can’t see a clear path to the Super Bowl with Pete and a continuation with his guys. The past few years of drafting and free agency have been so poor that you have to question what the hell is going on. It’s been idiot level decision making, no rhyme of reason and it’s decimated this team.
That said, something will happen and I suggested, semi-seriously, about a month ago a trade with Miami – RW and the Hawks’ draft for Tua and the Dolphins’ draft. It’s ridiculous, but in retrospect, why not? Is Tua any good? Who cares? He’s cheap and probably fits PeteBall. It would allow the Hawks to plow money into both lines and add a couple of skill players. It would provide an influx of new talent. Suddenly, you have the opportunity to make things look like 2012 again and it’s a team with a chance to build toward something special. You could also try it in trades with the Raiders and Jets, but I’d want RW out of the NFC and a rookie contract at QB in return. I think this is the best route to a Super Bowl in the next decade, however slim that reality is. More likely, we’re waiting on a regime change and who knows what that will look like.
Rob, you have the best football site going. Fantastic content on top of fantastic content. It’s a joy in a difficult time. Thanks to you and all of the guys who contribute regularly.
Agree with all of this (except maybe the Tua part). Great post man.
I’m just going to speak for myself and not include anything from the article or comments.
I’m TIRED of these “sagas”. It’s sports, sports are not “sagas” it is a frigging game. Unfortunately the game is now about MONEY.
Great, they all want to make as much money as possible, it’s a free society. However, the rest of us are not eligible for the kinds of money these people make. For me personally, they are alienating me from being able to go to games. I used to go to the LA Colessium to watch the Rams as a kid for $1.25 for the cheap seats. Now, games are hundreds of dollars to attend. I’ll never pay that to go to a game.
Not only that but the money aspect makes it very hard to keep a team together and the players have very little loyalty with out their supposed “payday”…
Blech..
It’s worn out it’s welcome with me. I’m not investing a bunch of time getting involved with every aspect of the team anymore. The NFL is losing me and I only watch Hawks football.
I wish them the best but they have slowly eroded my desire for them…Just my feelings.
I wonder what it would take to get Isaiah Wilson from Tennessee?
Just be happy we didn’t waste our 1st on him.
Yep. Malik McDowell 2.0, but without the ATV to blame on his knuckle-headedness. Toss him in the bin with Dwayne Haskin & Deandre Baker.
LJ Collier?
Assuming this can’t be worked out and looking at our options I think the Raiders make the most sense. We get Carr back who statistically from PFF’s view was not that far behind Wilson last year. I am not saying he is an equal. Stop that. You take those middling firsts and a second and third. Trade Bobby and Adams and go young and fast on the defense and bolster the line with proven talent. This is actually a potentially good year to find gems in the draft because the draft picture will be so incomplete. Carr will thrive under Waldron, or at least not regress. This gives us the best chance to remain competitive in my opinion.
The other aspect of Carr that will work perfectly is that he’ll yes man Pete at all times and never demand anything. Pete’s perfect QB.
As dissatisfying as that may sound, it is most likely true.
well – – we’ll see . . I read the athletic article too, and jesus things seem to be escalating really rapidly. Still can’t quite get my head around RW forcing a trade w 3 yrs left on his deal – by I guess, not showing up? Sitting out of football for the season at this point in his career? I know there’s a ton of sword-brandishing right now, but how does it actually look if you play it out?
That’s what Deshaun is doing, but he sort of has a different set of facts he can play, and even still, there’s no solid indication it’s going to work.
I’m pretty torn on this, and how I’m hoping it plays out. Losing all our SB defensive stars in such rapid succession was a real blow, but lowing Russell, and we are immediately in full, win 4-5 games a year, re-build mode.
Of the teams Wilson has supposedly said he would be interested in being traded to, the two teams that stick out to me are the Cowboys and Bears. Seattle needs a an average QB to be game manager, strong run game and strong defense.. hard to get all of that in one transaction though…
Wilson to Cowboys
Seattle gets Prescott, 2021/22/23 1st round picks plus ’22 ’23 2nd round picks and ’23 3rd round pick
Wilson to Bears
Seattle gets Khalil Mack, 2021/22/23 1st round picks plus ’22 5th round pick and ’23 4th round pick
Explanation
Cowboys
While Dallas is currently trying to work on a deal with Dak, he’s coming off a serious injury, and that is always a gamble. Trading the house for Wilson there’s no dead money to contend with like the Eagles or Rams are having to with Dak. They’re inheriting a relatively good deal for a top 3 QB. For Seattle, they can use the franchise tag to see if Dak maintains his form coming back from injury. They can always choose to let him walk the following year and get a 3rd round pick.
As Rob has said, this year and next is not exactly loaded with talent like in years past, so emphasis on 2023 picks.
Bears
Trubisky is less of a commodity than Prescott, so opting for fewer picks and get Mack. Besides, it would be hard for Chicago to absorb the cap of both Wilson and Mack. Pete get’s a stud on the D-Line that rivals/equal to Aaron Donald. With Adams and Wagner, Pete would have multiple options to create pressure.
Raiders and Saints I would be less inclined to send Wilson to. He’s likely to thrive with those teams, which just dilutes the value of the picks you get. Need to find a team Wilson will be happy going to, but is not as likely to make it to the post season
RE: The Cowboys – if they got Dak in a trade; I really like him but I would hope that Seattle would simply flip him for more picks.
Just go all in with the rebuild.
Ya, I don’t see paying Dak $38M on the tag as an option, and giving him a contract without seeing him play after that injury is its own huge risk.
Not $24 million?? I didn’t really take a good look.
I believe it’s $37.7M. He was tagged last year at around $31M and it goes up 20% on a 2nd tag iirc.
Wasn’t sure if the tag starts over with new team, not counted as 2nd tag. But I’m sure I’m wrong about that. Thanks
With the proper moves along with a Wilson trade, I like the Raiders. You can put together a playoff team with strong O-line, while restocking draft picks.
While Russ for Dak straight up is also nonsense, but Russ for Dak + 3xR1 + 2x R2 + 1x R3 is just toooooo much. No way they’d make that trade. They could flip Dak for like an R1 and R2 likely, so that’d mean 4xR1, 3xR2 and an R3 for Russ. They wouldn’t give up that much for him.
Mack has like 30-40m dead CAP. Bears won’t eat that. Or if they’d eat it, it’d look like: Russ for Mack and an R1 only. Change Mack to Trubisky in that scenario and it’s more likely
A visual representation of what today’s RW news has been like….
https://twitter.com/WUTangKids/status/1365004499660775431
Cha, you need to back away from twitter for a while! 😉
That was legit one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Had me laughing out loud for real.
I keep hear people saying the Hawks can’t trade Russ because he is a franchise QB and they are hard to find. Of course they are hard to find but since they signed Russ to his first big deal he has one exactly two playoff games in the last 5 years. They are not winning anything anytime soon with him as the “Franchise QB” so why not rebuild and not have all the drama.
Well hold on there.
They decided to pay Russ franchise QB money but aren’t protecting him, giving him healthy running backs or an even passable defense to work with.
And if you put an average QB in his place, you don’t even make it to the playoffs.
If you have an average QB you have $30 mil extra cap space and a completely different roster
Agree, and I’m more than ready for it to happen.
They made him the highest paid player in the league and have won 2 playoff games in 5 years. No team paying their QB the % of the cap the Hawks pay Russ has even made the Super Bowl much less won it. Perhaps that’s why the rest of the roster is not as good.
Sure, it’s got nothing to do with drafting LJ Collier, Darrell Taylor, and blowing $50m of allowance money on players that won’t be on the roster in 2021….
Exactly, last offseason was a pure embarrassment only topped to be topped off with the Adams trade. Sigh…..
Next time, please preface that statement with “THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED” for those not in the know.
It’s both really. It’s very hard to build a championship roster with a huge chunk of cap tied to one player. It is impossible with terrible drafting and roster management.
We’ve done both. Went from great drafting and savvy moves with a rookie QB to awful drafting, dumb trades and a $35M QB.
Agree completely!
This guy gets it! How much you wanna bet the best the Seahawks can do next year is barely make the playoffs (same as last few years). That’s not the goal of the team.
Rob correct me if you think I am wrong but I think the relationship between Russ and Seattle might be beyond repair. You are going into the draft with 4 draft picks.and face it the team isn’t getting better from a talent standpoint. People may wonder why dallas is on the list well no state income tax and where is Russ wilson wife born at that would be Texas. And face it houston is a mess.my guess is raiders .
I think it’s getting close to being beyond repair, certainly
Back to watching the quarterbacks. Ho-hum.
No one better to do that than you, Rob, but I hope it doesn’t come to that … but I rather think it will.
If Russell really wanted a trade, could he restructure his contract to facilitate that?
Yes. He would have to pay back a significant signing bonus. But then he could arrange with the buying team to repay that bonus once the trade is completed.
Does the cap even matter anymore. Seems like teams are always up against it but keep adding guys with not repercussions. I don’t know if it is all the loopholes or what but almost seems like a joke with what the Saints and Eagles etc have done in recent years.
It’s leading to a competitive inbalance, that’s for sure.
When the Saints are massively over the cap, and yet are in on a Clowney signing until the 11th hour, something is wrong with the system.
If the buying team became responsible to payback the bonus I’m guessing the draft compensation would then be lower.
I think Seahawks taking the bigger cap hit invites a larger return as its a better $ situation for buying team; but i could be wrong.
For sure.
How much bonus payout for the new team would definitely affect the compensation coming back.
The Browns deal for Osweiler in 2017 is the closest thing we have to a benchmark to see how much $ would change hands in a trade. They received a 2nd round pick from Houston and in exchange absorbed Osweiler’s $16m cap hit.
That’s not to say in 2021 a 2nd round pick is equal to $16m in cap money. But that’s what the market paid for it in 2017.
Thanks Cha, that’s what i thought when i did my trade proposal. I was basing it on us taking at 39M cap hit.
I’m fine moving on from Russell Wilson at this point.
This smells like the Legion of Boom Fiasco – Part Two and in both parts, Russell Wilson seemed to be near the center of all of it. If he wants to play wannabe GM/OC going forward, then go ahead and fire Pete Carroll, but I’m gonna need Russell Wilson to pack his bags too. All I’m saying is, it’ll be interesting to hear the 30 for 30 from those Legion of Boom teams.
Look, Russell Wilson still has a lot of value right now. Getting a haul for him, might possibly be for the best in the long run for the organization.
Stick with him and I think you get eliminated in the early rounds every year without an elite defense. Interesting he wants to go to the freaking Bears when he’s crying for offensive help. Maybe he realizes how important those defenses were to his overall legacy.
Furthermore, I think he’s going to age very poorly in his late 30s which is not far off at all, you can probably forget about the TB12 comparisons, they don’t play the game the same way. TB12 is an extremely cerebral pocket passer – he’s a master back there. RW3 still plays the game like he’s still 25, boneheaded mistakes and all that other elite QBs seem to limit in their games as they get wiser. What part of his game tells you he’s going to play at a high level until he’s 40? He’s probably got a few years left at playing great football before he starts looking a little funny as his athleticism continues to decline, which his game is very reliant on to this day.
I’ll live either way, but I’d prefer if he just stayed in his lane if he’s gonna be here so there isn’t a ominous Wilson-shaped cloud hanging over my favorite team every year. If he doesn’t like that, then leave while we can still get a haul instead of leaving the team with nothing at the end.
I hope you have the courage to post here next year when the Hawks are 8-8 without Wilson. I don’t recall ET giving Russ the finger, that was clearly directed at PC. I don’t think the end of the LOB had anything to do with Russ. It had to do with injuries and father time.
How is 8-8 with a young rebuilding team any worse than the last 5 yrs with big expectations and 2 playoff wins to show for it. If they get younger and build up a bunch of draft capital I don’t care what the record is next year as long as it looks like they have a clear plan towards being legit contenders in 2-3 years.
I have no faith in PC/JS anymore to come up with a “clear plan towards being legit contenders.” They completely failed this last off-season when they had both tons of cash and a decent amount of picks. They squandered both, setting the franchise back for years. And the first and most important thing for being a legit contender is having a legit quarterback.
The reality is, Pete football will not give you 8 wins without Wilson. RW is a 5.7 WAR player. The secondary is in shambles, the LBs have seen the nest part of their games, the DL is still not good. The offensive side of the ball is a meh OL, two top receivers and a lot more meh everywhere.
And a clear plan, like the last two or three plans they were not able to execute?
No thanks. Raze it to the ground. Get a creative young coach, a football mind, and start over.
I’ve been a Seahawk fan since day 1. Fell in love with Largent, Curt Warner, Ground Chuck, Easley, John L. Survived the Flores/Behring years. Got hyped with Holmgren and our first SB. But when Russ was drafted, I was in heaven. For the first time in my life, the Seahawks were far and away the best team in football, and showed that in their SB victory season.
I’m 56. I had to wait almost 40 years for a championship. I don’t have another 40 years to wait, and losing our franchise QB so that a fossil of a coach can “win his way” makes me sick to my stomach. It’s the same feeling I had when the Sonics were moved.
Valid point Chris, I’d also hate to wait that long again for the team to be relevant. Say they trade Russ, and if the Hawks have the right guys running a rebuild (admittedly a big IF) it shouldn’t take more than a few years of good drafting and wise free agent selections to be competitive again!
You may not have to wait that long Chris. Once Carroll fucks up all but one of the draft picks they receive in compensation, re-signs Jamal Adams to a massive contract who then misses 6 games next year and 5 the following year and so forth because he’s a 225 lb. blitzer while never rising above being the 39th ranked Safety, signs a bunch of low level guys to way too big contacts like last offseason, etc. and the team falls below .500 the new owner will clean house and IF we’re lucky the new regime will find an actual franchise QB in a lot shorter time than it took to find this one and build the team into a Super Bowl contender again.
Of course sadly, it could take 37 seasons like it did the last time and by then you and I will be dead. (I’m 64)
Ship him to the Jets-be done with it Take their two firsts- Quinnen Williams and Denzel Mims.
Not on his trade list
If the Hawks do trade Russ and go in rebuild mode it is critical that they revamp the scouting department as well because they have been dreadful for 5-6 years now.
What I like about him giving team names is now the Hawks know whos calls are worth answering.
Chicago is major market team, who’s best franchise QBs in history are Jay Cutler, and some guy who retired in 1950.
https://www.fanduel.com/theduel/posts/greatest-quarterbacks-in-bears-history-01e93v2hdrg.
Imagine if that town had a superstar QB who wanted to be there.
If I were them, I’d be throwing everything they have at the Seahawks to get them to budge.
x3 1st’s for the next 3 years
x1 2nd this year
Nick Foles
+ throw in some draft swaps for shits and giggles.
Make the Hawks actually have to think on this.
Plus the Bears have a GM & coach on the hot seat.
They know that a Wilson trade might save their jobs.
Sid Luckman retired before 1959 😀
*1950*
Either way, the point’s been made that Chicago fanbase would do anything for real QB.
Even if it would mean mortgaging the future.
if you’re a Redditor, go check out r/CHIbears and see how they feel about even the idea of Russ.
“If Wilson comes to Chicago he’s going to get free food and blowjobs for life in Chicago.
I can’t cook but I’m willing to do my part”
Doug Baldwin, Richard Sherman, and Jermaine kearse cryptic tweets are funny.
It would be entertaining to have them on Brandon marshalls podcast to discuss all this, not that they will. It’s pretty clear Russell Wilson isn’t as easy to deal with as his image would portray.
The one thing you could never accuse Sherman & Baldwin of is not being up front with how they feel on a subject.
Russ is very ‘managed’ and deliberate.
It’s not a surprise at all that the two sides didn’t mesh.
I think we all respect Russ for what he’s done but he’s a bit weird and half the stuff he says he says because it’s good for his image.
Yeah they don’t mesh at all. But that attitude sherm and Doug have is missed.
Russ is respected for being a great player, but it’s become clear how selfish he is. It’s always about him and his legacy and it seems he puts out to the media excuses of why they haven’t won. He acts like it’s never his fault.
Its all about his image. I think this annoys guys like Doug because he acts like this team first selfless guy in public, but they have known this isn’t the case for a while.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DangeRussWilson/status/1365034640868741121
Also what is this tweet?
All fuel. It’s not like anyone’s been slighting him. His agent is out there floating stuff. Joel Corey criticized him saying: He needs to either come out and say he is looking forward to playing on the hawks this year or demand a team. None of this both sides crap.
Kind of interesting that the guys who should love Russ the most (the WRs) could care less for him.
It’s about the personality and fakeness of russ they don’t like. I think they all respect the player he is.
Amen.
How about a Russell Wilson-for-Aaron Rodgers trade? send Russell home to Wisconsin?
Interesting. EXOS is hosting a “Combine” of sorts for a good number of players training with them. Sounds like they will publish the numbers, since they were even considering broadcasting it at one point.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/02/25/gameplan-nfl-combine-week-exos-filling-void
Tony Pauline said on his podcast recently that most of the big names who work out at EXOS won’t be taking part in this
I’ll be the first to admit I 100% up to this point didn’t think we would trade Russ. However… IF the rumors are true that Russ has specifically mentioned 4 teams he’s willing to go to than it changes everything my mind to a trade being a possibility this year.
BTW, let’s not mention any other teams but the 4 Russ apparently mentioned in trade talks. He has the control of what teams he is willing to go to so what’s the point of bringing up the Jets or Miami or whoever else isn’t in Wilson’s 4?
This sucks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlMFf7pNT9U
Funny you linked that. I just watched that last night when doing a mock. Pretty smooth.
I really like his internal clock.
Thousand one, thousand two, throw or scramble.
I think he has a TON of potential which is why I’ve mocked him in R1 so much.
Has everything.
Just doesn’t have the starts. Which admittedly is a concern.
After trading Wilson, go and get Mills, Najee Harris, and Quinn Meinerz in the draft and you can play some major Pete football
Yes, please!
https://overthecap.com/looking-at-the-trade-options-for-russell-wilson/
Hmm. I thought for sure Jason would have more imagination than what he puts together here.
I only got as far as this…
And I like Dak… but come on.
Feels like the article was hastily written. Also with a ‘I’m sure I’m going to be bothered with RW questions so I’ll just put this out there so you’ll shut up and leave me alone vibe’ rather than approaching is as a potentially blockbuster trade with cap ramifications for the next 5 years for each team.
But this is like a ‘typical’ fan analysis. I don’t go to OTC for that. Give us some nuts and bolts on the cap please!
I’ve noticed alot of low return options for Wilson. The Article in the Athletic with trades for all 4 teams are all bad. You would just hang up on many of the trades our local reporters are putting up. Seems like the only ones that are realistic come from the destination cities.
Feels like our local sports writers view Wilson’s value about as much as Carroll does. Maybe Adams can Play QB and throw; we all know he can’t catch interceptions thrown right too him.
Either way its gonna be an interesting offseason
If they are going to pull the trigger I would insist on packaging Wilson and Wagner for multiple firsts (Including one in the top 10) along with an established QB and a young pro bowl defender on a rookie contract. Dallas makes sense if they can trade Cooper to clear space and resign Dak to a 3 year 105 mil contract with 15 to 20 mil signing bonus (which they would have to eat) then they get Wilson and Wagner for Dak, Vander Esch, and their next two first rounders, and a second or third this year. Hawks get a look at Dak, replace KJ and Wagner, maybe draft a LT of the future this year.
Raiders.
I went over Carr’s numbers the last 3 seasons and they were much better than I expected. Along with his personality type I imagine he would fit right in with Pete. Raiders have the picks and Gruden wants to win at all costs.
Anybody think Carr + Jacobs/draft picks is the most likely scenario if we actually trade Russ?
I would say they are in the driving seat of the teams listed.
The fact they can trade you a starting QB, on top of multiple picks, makes it palatable in a way the Bears/Saints/Cowboys can’t.
Plus I do think Gruden/Davis are motivated to make some huge splash.
And there’s the Vegas market, the offensive minded coach, the fact they play in the AFC.
Yeah I don’t get all the Carr hate. He’s not going to be an all-pro but he’s certainly not bad. He’ll probably be a top 10ish QB for a few more years.
I think Carr and Jacobs would be a good start for a trade, but we’d obviously need to get one or two more quality starters or picks IMO.
I’m curious what Robert Saleh thinks of Russ. If Saleh likes Russ part of me thinks the Jets will do something stupid like offering Darnold (who I don’t think is the lost cause many others do) three 1st round picks, plus more. Woody Johnson does not seem like a smart man. Now that he’s back full time running the Jets I wonder if his first instinct isn’t to start to meddle to make a deal like this happen.
I realize Wilson’s handlers would likely advise him against going to the Jets, but part of me thinks his ego might override logic when the lure of the biggest NFL market is in the table.
This whole situation is absurd. Russell and Pete are the two bests in their respective jobs in Seahawks history and this can’t be worked out?! Is Schneider completely neutered?! Is anyone listening?! Make shrewd moves. Get better on defense. Let Russ cook. Let Pete coach defense. Let someone else draft. I’ll show myself out now.
Jason La Canfora chimes in:
https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/1365064442669641729
Florio has been touting this post-June 1 thing too. Both connected to Rodgers.
So clearly the Wilson camp are thinking a zany ‘do it now, don’t confirm until June’ move is the way around the dead money.
I’m here for the Phil Haynes to Vegas for three firsts and two seconds pre-draft trade, then Carr for Wilson in June 1st — simply for the LOL nature of it.
I’d want more than that for Haynes.
😂
😂
You, sir, win the thread today!
That would provide some much needed levity to the year man…also I wouldn’t hate starting Carr and adding all them sweet draft pics (if we can actually hit on them)
I would assume if the deal included picks the Raiders would essentially draft who we told them to? Or are there limitations to when a player can be traded after they are drafted?
If you’re doing the June 1st thing, I think you have to come up with an overly convoluted plan that enables Seattle to have picks this year and then come June 1st, the quarterback moves.
https://gfycat.com/academicrawdrake
Clean up on aisle 5
I like your idea Rob. Trade a player for this years assets and Russell post June for the 2022 picks and Carr. Brilliant if league would approve it
Wait, Phil Haynes isn’t worth three 1sts?
Just incredible. Absolutely incredible.
https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/1365096482756558849
I have no idea what Gregg Bell is doing.
Denial, river in Egypt, yadda yadda yadda
He’s obviously going to die on that sword
It would be one thing if he was only in denial, but he’s also just so condescending.
yes, and that’s why he’s doubling and tripling down.
He’s been such a prig about the whole thing, his ego will allow no concessions.
I mainly want this trade to happen just to watch Bell and Clayton’s heads explode.
I just want him to traded so I can hear John Claytons report on “Ruskell Williams” getting traded. I haven’t heard the man get one name right for the better part of a decade.
😀
And you may ask yourself, “well…how did I get here?”
Talking Heads
Nice
Oy my….
NFLonCBS
@NFLonCBS
·
Feb 24
There is only ONE active NFL player who is a 6x First-Team All-Pro Selection and a Super Bowl Champion.
▪️Bobby Wagner
Anything to the lockett rumor to Miami?
No. It’s Chad Forbes. A well known twitter rumour bullshitter.
Thanks Rob
😂😂😂
https://mobile.twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/1365096265873244160
I don’t even know where to start with this, Hawks fan seem split down the middle on whether RW or PC is the problem, this sight has been noticeably pro Wilson, and that’s fine. This is one mans representation of how he views things and ultimately his private space that’s made available for others as a courtesy. I’m glad that the views have changed more in line with my personal belief that you build the trenches and everyone else looks better if we are winning those battles. There are a lot of assumptions that I don’t believe are correct. First the belief that Wilson is still an elite QB, 2 that he somehow deserves input on the direction the team should go, that his legacy is more important than the Hawks legacy, the league is trending toward a player controlled league became it has done so wonderful for the NBA and MLB, that the QB bubble of getting more than their fair share of the cap and control of the team is a ways away from popping.
These assumptions, that I don’t believe are correct are taken for granted bye media types, but the reality is around the league teams are catching on. First, it is nearly impossible to create a Super Bowl Roster with a QB who is good enough to beat bad teams and keep your draft position low, especially if their cap hit nearing 15-20 percent of the cap you better have built the team first and added the QB to a already stacked roster. The last time a team won a Super Bowl with it two highest paid starter taking up more than 21.6 percent of the cap was 1994 Steve Young and Jerry Rice. Put simply RW will never win another Super Bowl with the Hawks or otherwise unless he runs into a Manning/ Broncos situation. I don’t mind the 12-4 season, it’s a win to me and one of the most exciting teams to follow of all time but if you want a Super Bowl you have to start with losing Wilson even if that means a couple bad years looking for the new QB.
The problem here is that trading Wilson in the short term could significantly cripple the Seahawks. Doing so prior to June 1, per Spotrac, would incur a dead-cap hit for the Seahawks of a shocking $39 million and also immediately cause $7 million in additional cap costs. A trade after June 1 this year would spread out that $39 million into split cap hits ($13 million in 2021, $26 million in 2022) and turn that $7 million expenditure into $19 million of cap relief.
From Yahoo!
So it’s more than just the Dead Cap hit, which makes huge change in my mind on why they’re saying it has to be after June 1st. Unless there is some huge change to the contract situation, I’m on the wagon where it’s after June 1st. Basically like they’re talking some fake trade right now, and do the real deal after June 1st. I see it as a done deal that Russ will be gone, we’re just negotiating and seeing what the right choice is.
Dumb proposed trade idea
Seattle receives
2021 1st (20)
2021 2nd (52)
2022 1st
Khalil Mack
Chicago receives:
Russell Wilson
Lj collier
Someone tell me why this is a stupid trade?
I would say no because Mack is already 30 years old. Different story if he was 27.
Yeah you’re probably right, get them to add more picks then.
It seems like Chicago is super desperate so they should capitalize on it.
My caveat would be *as long as Mack isn’t substitution for an additional first rounder. If he fills the spot of a 2nd or 3rd rounder – then I’m more in favor of it.
Yeah I get it. They could do three first instead of Mack. They could also get another good young player, I’m not sure whose on there roster who is good and young that they could throw in.
I think a HOF quarterback trade such as Russell Wilson would get more than anyone expects. You could almost demand anything and pin teams against each other.
So… what’s your plan for QB?
I assume that if we trade Wilson we get a QB back, or a high draft pick to pick a QB they like.
I mean it’s not a perfect plan by any means, but ideally you draft a quarterback on the cheap. You don’t need a top 5 pick. A lot of the time the mid/ end of the first round qbs are just as good as the first pick. such as Patrick mahomes, Lamar Jackson, deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, dak presscott, Kirk cousins, etc.
You can always sign a cam Newton, Jamies Winston types short term.
You make it sound like franchise QBs grow on trees. The hit rate in the draft for QBs is pretty low, and FA is no better. We thought Matt Flynn was going to be great…
Won’t happen…Mack has like 30-40m dead CAP. No way CHI would just eat that
Questions for the cognoscenti:
1) 12.5% of the salary cap has been thrown around as a pain point for QB compensation, in being able to build a Super Bowl contender. With Dallas trades suggesting a Wilson-for-Prescott swap as part of the plan, do we think Dak will sign for less than that? Otherwise, aren’t we just swapping QBs and remaining in cap purgatory?
2a) I get that no team wants to destabilize their offense and defense at the same time. Does trading away Russ really make the decision to re-sign Jamal Adams any better? If he isn’t a fit for the defense, he isn’t a fit. Don’t pay him just because we can…
2b) On a separate line of reasoning, does trading away Russ make keeping Bobby better? It doesn’t seem a rare opinion that he isn’t living up to his contract. If we drafted his replacement, do we keep him through his contract? Trade him next year?
3) If the Jets and Dolphins aren’t on Russ’s list, then our chances of drafting a top 4 QB in this class seems to be more remote. Does that change the timing of the compensation that we would look for? Is there any value in seeking more 2022 picks instead of focusing on 2021?
4) If we somehow keep Russ and play through 2021 (however that may end up) only for him to ask for a trade afterwards, does the compensation that we seek in return in 2022 change significantly? Does taking a year off his contract make him more or less attractive to other teams?
Just some questions bouncing around my mind…
1. Yes, I would think that Dak makes very little sense. We don’t save any money (actually lose cap space), he’s coming off a major injury and is a lesser QB. Plus we’re forced to sign him to a major long-term deal with a boatload of dead money (via signing bonus).
2a. I would trade Jamal either way. If RW stays or goes, I think Adams is our best bet to save some $$ and get some picks back. Caveat: I don’t think Pete will agree with this.
2b. I would trade Bobby too. Considering he’ll probably bring back a 2nd at best and his dead cap goes from $7.5M to $3.75M if we wait until June 1, I’d wait. Send him to Cleveland for a player (Greedy, Delpit or some other area of need) and a pick. I’d love to see us take Barron Browning to pair with Brooks. Young, fast, athletic duo that hits the books for less than Bobby’s dead cap.
3. If we trade RW, I say forget the high profile QB. As much as we may love it or hate it, we’re all in on Pete’s vision at that point. I think Kellen Mond and a 2nd and 3rd round pick suit this vision more than a Trey Lance and no other help.
4. I would think so, towards the less attractive side (for a 2022 deal). I’ll say this… If we keep him and next year, he’s asking for a trade, then we’ve screwed the proverbial pooch. As much as I don’t love the idea of paying a disgruntled QB $35M, I do hope we keep him. That has to be a give and take, where he at least feels heard though. If Pete won’t accede to that, then just rip off the band-aid and start the rebuild.
Agree with all this. Build a great OL / DL and run game then go with a young dynamic QB on a rookie deal.
3, Strong NO!
Imagine a team has the #18 for example this year.
Unless they’re totally destroy their roster that #18 this year means likely a #25-30 next year…just because they get Russ. Next years’ picks usually valued less, and adding a franchise QB also makes those picks likely lower and by that decreased in value.
#18 now would mean 2022 R1 + R2 + R4 at least (!) for me
All you guys are already dating other people. I am still clinging to the ‘come on baby, we can make it work’ stage of this relationship …
I know the grass is always greener, and I do recognize that the Carroll regime has gone a little stale – but man, isn’t his whole thing that he’s a players coach? That he builds culture and his players love him? He and RW have had way more ups than downs over this run, you’d hope/think they could work this out over a long, philosophical meal.
But, I also think this point:
“This is where we’re at in the NFL. Possessing a star franchise quarterback isn’t something you just have any more. The top players in the game — Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Aaron Rodgers — are speaking out a lot more than they used to.
…
Brady and the Bucs have changed the game.”
is what’s happening here. I’d add Lebron and KD to the Brady example. It’s an era of player empowerment, and control – and maybe that’s the line that player-friendly, but ultimately old-school Pete Carroll, just can’t make himself cross.
And btw, it crosses my mind – that I’m not all that sure it makes sense for your QB to quasi-run things. Yes, it worked for Brady, but he’s the all-time best, and TB’s defense did plenty of heavy lifting too. For all of the criticisms of Pete (and I’m not saying they’re invalid), he did build a SB winner and a CFB Natl Champion, both from scratch. Russell is a phenomenal athlete, but he’s never built a roster, or an offensive scheme for that matter. So, do we want him doing that?
I feel like i’m rambling, b/c there’s a lot of mixed emotions – but overriding it all is that I will be really, really bummed if it’s someone other than #3 starting at QB next year.
chicago… chasing ifedi?
Believe more than ever if Russell is traded it’s Vegas. And the Seahawks would be smart, if a deal with Vegas was looking likely, to leak it and see what Denver may offer even though they aren’t on Russ’s list. Russell in Vegas means the Broncos are looking at a division with Mahomes, Russ, and Herbert. If that happens, they’re irrelevant and they’ll be desperate. Then let Elway convince Russ how great he and Denver is. At a minimum, it could increase Vegas’ offer. I doubt Davis, desperate to get out of daddy’s shadow, would allow Russ to go to Denver.
The one wild card could be Chicago. I could see them going up to Hershel Walker level compensation because they are so desperate for a franchise QB.
I just can’t see Wilson swapping one old defensive minded HC for another. Denver is a non starter for Watson & Wilson for me, too many better options.
The Bears are desperate. Ryan Pace is on his last legs and will forever be remembered as the guy who passed on Mahomes & Watson for Trubisky.
This is his last chance to change that and save his job.
Can’t say I disagree with you completely. I just think Vegas more than the other teams has the ability to provide Pete with the compensation he will want to win now. I just don’t think Pete’s going to roll with a rookie QB. The exception as you point out is Chicago. They could give such a ridiculous haul the Seahawks can’t say no. A trade could work with Dallas and Dak (for the record, I hope it doesn’t) but I think Dallas will ultimately decide they’d prefer to give Dak a long term deal and keep their draft picks.
So for me, it boils down to Vegas or an insane offer from Chicago. Hopefully, there are two desperate teams bidding against each other.
https://youtu.be/TpV3N26xq_4
For some reason I am reminded of Carson Wentz watching those highlights. Looked impressive running the option keeper for a TD
He sure seems to have a nice quick release, even on deep balls.
Along with the usual caveats of “these are highlights”, seemed like Mond was hitting open receivers while your earlier post on Mills was him hitting guys who were covered.
My amateur eye still likes Lance best. He just seems more dynamic.
What I will say for Mond — that throw downfield, down the seam against Florida, to a covered receiver, with perfect velocity and placement, is probably the most accurate throw I saw last season.
Mond reminds me of a slightly less polished Dak coming out of college. I like him a lot although i am a little higher on Mills. I think he has that factor.
Good luck going to Vegas and winning division against Mahomes and Herbert.
AFC east is open for easy pickings and then NFC east.. If he is hell bent on winning even if it means taking less it’s Saints.
Why not Giants .. if Joe Judge is the real deal and Big apple.
I’m sure that’s what people thought about Wilson & the Seahawks after 2014. Seattle won the NFC West just twice in the next six years and Jimmy G and Jared Goff went to the Super Bowl from the division.
I’ve seen a few things where people are saying it wasn’t Wilson who gave the list of 4 teams, but his agent. Surely though Rodgers wouldn’t do that without consulting Wilson first? Whether it is a true list or not, I just can’t see it like that. Wilson would have had input or at the very least known, it wouldn’t have been independent.
You’re absolutely right
I’d really like to know what the locker room is thinking about Russ. To me he always seemed like a good person, but lots of former team mates aren’t talking that good about him afterwards. Doug Baldwin also tweeted yesterday again. He was quoting a Drake song “pray the real live forever, pray the fakes get exposed”. Sherman also liked that tweet and there were reports years ago that Lynch and Sherm had some issues with RW. Also heard from former players at NC State that he had problems with the locker room and that was one of the reasons why he left and went to Wisconsin.
The coach also committed to Mike Glennon as the starting QB. It was either ride the pine or go somewhere else.
One thing I have always found weird with Wilson is that he seems to have no friends. No childhood friends or even college friends. Just look at who was in his wedding a few years ago. That’s weird to me.
That is interesting. You don’t really see any former team mates talking about him, no real lasting roots anywhere.
It’s possible he’s just been so focused on his life/career that his only real friends are those working with him. But that’s not particularly healthy, IMO.
He seems to be living a stage-managed life in many ways.
It reminds me of Michael Jordan without 5 of the championships. Two of his closest friends were his driver and his security guard. His teammates didn’t personally like him but they respected his game immensely.
Does seem like a red flag…or at least a yellowish flag? I think back to Baldwin’s retirement message and I don’t think he really spoke that much about Russ, if at all? He mentioned Bevell though. And I loved the pic of him, Sherm, Lynch and R. Locette laughing over a meal.
Russ over Pete has been my stance but now after people have pointed out his somewhat “fakeness”, that he’s a bit weird, and no roots makes me wonder. Maybe ditch both and let Schneider and Waldrin cook.
Even as a fan his cheesy antics get old and tiresome so you can imagine what that must be like to have to deal with day to day. It is surprising you never hear any of this old teammates ever come out and say what a great leader he was. Players always talk about his talent and ability not his leadership and that speaks volumes. He is tough as hell and had never missed a practice much less a game so you would think players would give him the utmost respect but that is clearly not the case and I definitely makes one wonder why.
I think the Reid Brady situation is a one off
No head coach or franchise want the qb with that much influence off the pitch, coaches will become less important and that’s untenable within the game. Coaches are professional people and are a key element in becoming champions and this is the battle occurring at the Seahawks. I can’t see Pete or the franchise allowing the coaching and recruitment influence Wilson desires.
Just hope the Seahawks get the best out of the eventual trade, one of my fav players over the last decade is Earl Thomas and that was messy ending. C’est la vie
I’m struggling to think that any of the proposed 4 teams as potential destinations would either, with the exception of the Bears who are desperate beyond belief.
I think the Raiders would rename the stadium after Wilson to get a deal done.
They need to sell the franchise to a new, non-football city/state.
Having a star player, who gets you in the playoffs every year, with the prospects of Wilson vs Mahomes/Herbert for four games per year?
It’s a dream for that franchise.
😂 We’ve forgotten what QB purgatory feels like.
Funny tweet 🙂
Would Gruden concede or defer to Wilson on matters though? It totally works from a face of the franchise though.
100% yes — I think Gruden would love working with Wilson.
And really he’d have no choice. This would be an ownership move.
Gruden could also release his OC in order to save some money, and just let Russ double as QB and OC!
I’m so over the drama…probably it’d be better to keep Wilson, but to me, it’s worth winning only 4-5 games but trending up and after 3-4-5-6-7-8 years go to the SB again, than not winning the SB (but getting into the playoffs) and deal with all this drama all-the-time. And I doubt this team could win an SB even with giving Russ more control, making him more happy…at least not in the upcoming 3-5 years. Roster is mediocre at best, huge holes, no reasources…
So…We know what the two sides think.
4 teams: Vegas, Chicago, New Orleans, Dallas
Raiders picks in 2021: 17, 48, 81, 112, 146, 179, 212
in 2022 they have all the picks one for each round
Bears picks in 2021: 20, 52, 83, 165, R6, 204, 220, 224
in 2022 they have all the picks one for each round
Saints picks in 2021: 28, 60, 98, 105, 133
in 2022 they have all the picks one for each round (except R3, they have 2 there)
Cowboys picks in 2021: 10, 44, 75, 105, 167, 200
in 2022 they have one pick from R1 to R6
In 2023 I assume they have all the picks between R1 and R7
Players who could be added in the deal:
Raiders:
Carr (QB, signed until the end of ’22, limited dead CAP for LV. Around 20m APY contract). He could work for the Hawks. Not elite, but decent
Carl Nassib (DE, signed until end of ’22, around 6m dead CAP, 9,5 and 8m CAP hit). Young, nothing flashy, but he had 6 sack seasons and Hawks could use some DE additions
Mariota (QB, last year of his contract, zero dead money, 11m CAP). Young, a bit underrated. Nothing amazing, but he’s a decent stopgap QB at least. He had up and down moments, but he can scramble, and I doubt he’d cause much trouble
Josh Jacobs (RB, under contract until end of ’22, but he has a 5th year option…but ton of dead CAP, 7m for the Raiders, 3,5m APY contract). Good, young runner. More durable than Carson, but he had some injuries as well
Bears:
(before anyone would say Mack…not gonna happen…37m dead CAP might be OK for an unhappy QB but you don’t eat that much for a DL who is content there)
Akiem Hicks (DT, last year of his contract, 1,2m dead money, 12m CAP). Solid DT who can produce 7-8 sacks from the middle if he play the whole year. Unless we can make his APY lower, I’m not sure I’d re-sign him, but a solid addition for a year
Trubisky could get a 5th year option and traded to us, but thanks no thanks. He’s not that good, and would probably need an extension, and even on the 5th year option he’d cost relatively much. Not awful, but I’d rather get picks instead of him
David Montgomery (RB, minimal dead cap, under contract until end of ’22, around 1m APY). Young RB, seems mostly durable, had a 1000+ yard season in 2020
Saints:
Saints can eat much dead CAP as they need to replace these players and fit RW’s contract and already over the CAP…so no Michael Thomas, no Kamara, no Andreus Peat, no Cam Jordan, Demario Davis, Janoris Jenkins, and not sure about Taysom Hill, and Cook’s total salary is GTD
Malcolm Brown (DT, last year of his contract, 1,5m dead money, 6,5 CAP). Relatively young DT. Nothing really awe-inspiring, but he could be a good rotation next to Reed and Ford
Latavius Murray (RB, under contract til ’22, 1,7m DM, around 4M APY). Pretty durable but played only a limited role, solid stats, hard runner.
Ryan Ramczyk (RT, last year, zero DM, 11m CAP). Makes a ton of sense, he’s a solid young player, Saints lose no CAP
Marshon Lattimore (CB, last year, zero DM, 10m CAP). We need a good CB, he’s an awesome CB, young, reliable…will cost a lot, but to me he’s worth it
Erik McCoy (C, under contract til ’22, 1,2m DM around 1-1,5m APY). Solid C, young, started all games for the Saints, they have Ruiz
CGJ (S, under contract til ’22, 400K DM, around 1M APY). OK young SS. If we’d trade Adams he could fight for starting spot with Blair.
Cowboys:
Tyron Smith (LT, under contract ’til ’24, finished on IR, 9m dead money, around 15M apy, easy out for his last year). A bit older, but solid LT. Apart from last year, he played around 13-14 games lately.
La’el Collins (RT, under contract ’til end of ’24. 12m DM, around 12-13M apy). Younger RT, pretty durable started 15-16 games in recent years for the Cowboys
Leighton Van Der Esch (LB, last year but has 5th year option. 1,6m DM, 4M CAP). Young, stud LB. If the Hawks wants to build a stud D and they trade BWagz, we need someone apart from Brooks for the LBs. Has injury concerns, only started 9 and 10 games in last years, but he’s an awesome LB
Trevon Diggs (CB, under rookie contract til ’23, DM is 2,5m and he has around 1,5-2m APY). Great first year: 3 int, 1 FF, 1 sack, 58 tackles, played in 12 games. DAL likely don’t wanna trade him, but if they want to give us less picks, he’d provide value in a trade
Connor Williams (G, last year, 500K DM, 3M CAP). Young OG, started in all games in 2020 for the ‘boys.
So…
Based on resources, here are some potential trade scenarios:
With Vegas:
1, Carr + Jacobs + #17 + #81 + 2022 R1
2, Mariota + Jacobs + #17 + #48 + #81 + 2022 R2
3, Carr + #17 + #81 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R3 + 2023 R2
4, Mariota + #17 + #48 + #81 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R2
5, #17 + #48 + #81 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R2 + 2023 R1
My favorite would be 4,
With Bears:
1, Trubisky + #20 +#52 + #165 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R3
2, Tubisky + Montgomery + #20 + #165 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R3
3, Montgomery + #20 + #52 + #83 + #165 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R2
4, #20 + #52 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R2 + 2023 R1 + 2023 R3
My favorite would be 4,
With Saints: 28, 60, 98, 105, 133
1, Ramczyk + Lattimore + McCoy + CGJ + Murray + #28 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R3
2, Ramczyk + Lattimore + McCoy + #28 + #98 + 2022 R1 + 2022 R3 + 2023 R2
I doubt they’d go for only picks, and with Ruiz on the roster, it won’t make a ton of sense to keep McCoy with limited CAP. Ramczyk and Lattimore would be likely negative CAP casualties without dead money or traded anyway, so Hawks could use a good young OT a stud CB and a good OC, so this would make the most sense. In return the Saints don’t lose any player they wouldn’t lose anyway and they can keep their R2 for 2021 and 2022 and their 2023 R1, so they have some (although limited) opportunity to fill out their holes
Favorite has to be 2,
With Cowboys: 10, 44, 75, 105, 167, 200
1, La’el Collins + Connor Williams + Diggs + Van Der Esch + #10 + 2022 R2
2, La’el Collins + Connor Williams + #10 + #44 + 2022 R2 + 2023 R2
3, Diggs + Van Der Esch + #10 + #75 + 2022 R2 + 2023 R3
4, One player + #10 + #44 + #75 + 2022 R1 + 2023 R2
5, #10 + #44 + #105 + 2022 R2 + 2022 R3 + 2023 R1
I like the young defenders…not sure how good is Williams and Collins. If they’re solid, I wouldn’t mind the 1, deal. If they’re not that good, I’d be fine with 3,
I go out on the thing that SEA at least wants 3x R1. And hopefully some bidding war would start, so I think/hope 3xR1 and 2xR2 is the baseline here.
Among all trades my favorites would be either the Saints one, if we can extend Ramczyk and Lattimore or probably the Vegas trade (get a youngish OK QB and a good haul of picks)
Nice work, Dani. Thanks for taking the time to put this together in an organized way.
Saints #2 is intriguing to me, although I’m not sure with the players who are going to be cap casualties anyways, maybe you could just wait until they are cut and sign them if you want them. As you say, they are going to be quite expensive though in just 1 year’s time. Would have to think about it. The other downside is that the R1 picks are very late-round compared to the others, plus they are NFC foes.
Vegas having pick #17 is a lot more appealing to perhaps get a fringe blue-chip player. I think you ask for the moon though:
Carr, Mariota, Jacobs, 17, 81, 112, 179, 2022 R1, 2022 R3, 2023 R2
The idea would be to try and flip Carr for another R1 pick: see if the Panthers would give up #8 for him or Washington #19 + #51.
So we get our 3 R1 picks (two of them this year), a good RB for 2 more cheap years, fill out our draft ammo this year, have Mariota to bridge/compete with a rookie QB.
The idea would be to try and flip Carr for another R1 pick:
Carr is what give the Raiders the edge. If the Raiders go all in they can flip Carr for a package equal to or greater than what Detroit got for Stafford. If they managed to get a similar return they would have two additional first round picks and a third. If you take Las Vegas option 2 and add the picks received from trading Carr
.2, Mariota + Jacobs + #17 + #48 + #81 + 2022 R2 + Carr trade R1 + Carr trade R1 + Carr trade R3
In that framework you have the minimum required first round picks. A veteran game manager QB to bridge the gap while you redshirt Mills or Mond and picks to re build.
Don’t know if it will happen but Raiders seem to be in the drivers seat.
Yeah…it’s really hard to figure out what is a reasonable price for RW.
And tbh I don’t really follow neither Vegas or the Bears or the Cowboys.
I rate Carr as a late R1 guy in a trade. Mariota around a late R2.
I fear we don’t have an awesome negotiating position though…
Remove all the media, and lets say the Hawks out of the blue say they want to trade RW because they want to go for a cheaper QB and a really run-heavy O, and great defense.
I think if every team are in play, and the team initiating the talks, Russ could easily net something like this:
R1 pick between #1 and #15
2 or 3 additional R1 picks in either this or the following years
3 x R2 picks
3 x R3 picks
And a pretty good player with 1 or 2 year on his contract
And this deal wouldn’t be really that crazy.
But with Russ and his agent stirring the sh.t, going to the media, telling everyone that the Hawks might HAVE TO trade RW because HE’S not happy, and only THESE 4 teams have any chance…they kill the team’s negotiating starting point. The Hawks are not in control. Russ and those 4 teams are in control.
If Russ would say that he won’t play a snap as a Hawk anymore, and those teams wouldn’t willing to give up anything, and one team would present you a deal like 1x R1 2x R2 and 2x R3 what do you do?
You can either refuse, and get a QB to play while Russ is sitting out and risk that his trade value will shrink even more, or you bite on the bullet and take that awful trade for him. Obviously something like this won’t happen, but it’s hard…and I’m not sure how much PCJS can/willing to try to push their luck. Russ and his agent made this situation a buyer’s market. So while I think they’ll get a nice compensation for Russ, I don’t think they’ll get what they can….but maybe CHI and LV are desperate enough to make a huge deal…fingers crossed
What I really don’t get is, how this whole opera could have been invisible to the guys paying for the show. Late last season, they came to the impression, that only five more years of Pete ball will carry the team.
Fast forward two months of said extension, the house is burning.
RW is basically offering his “come, get me”-list. It is the final straw.