Instant reaction: Seahawks lose, fall to 5-3

November 5th, 2017 | Written by Rob Staton

There’s usually one characteristic saved for good teams. You have to play your best game to beat them.

The Seahawks, strangely, have never quite lived up to that.

The Pete Carroll era, predominantly filled with successes and exciting wins, has also been known to throw out an occasional ugly loss.

The Redskins and Kirk Cousins deserve credit for the way they won it at the end. That’s a terrific drive with the odds stacked against them. Two big pass plays to win. That’s not easy against any opponent in that situation.

But really they had three good drives — their scoring drives — and struggled mightily the rest of the day.

Seattle dominated yardage, time of possession, first downs, yards per play, sacks.

That should’ve been enough to secure a win. It wasn’t.

The 16 penalties, the three missed kicks, the two failed two-point conversions, the slow start on offense, the big drive conceded at the end by the defense.

It was one thing after another until the very end.

It was, it has to be said, a bit of a mess. A blown opportunity to go to 6-2 and stay at the top of the NFC West.

The Seahawks under Carroll love to play chaotic games. They often thrive in such a dramatic setting. The problem is, such a scenario can easily lead to a performance and result like this — even against an injury-ravaged Redskins team.

Had a loss like this been coming? Was the four game winning streak a bit of a mirage? Maybe. They’d made hard work of all four of those previous wins. Today, their luck ran out as they tried to kick and scratch to a fifth.

It’s a significant loss if you were hoping the Seahawks were going to stride forward and become the team to beat in the NFC. They fell further behind the Eagles and are now relying on the NFC East beating each other up to bring Philadelphia back into range. The Rams continue to march forward — both Philly and LA today rolled to the kind of easy wins Seahawks fans must crave.

The Rams, rightly, will now be the favourites in the NFC West.

Despite all of the aggressive moves and the determination to win now, Seattle unfortunately looks a bit too disjointed to take seriously as a contender. That can change, of course. But the margin for error is almost completely evaporated.

In 2013 they only lost three games in total. In 2014 they needed a Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton injury plus an incredible winning streak to overcome a difficult start.

At 5-3 at the mid-way point this Seahawks team looks disappointingly similar to the two previous years. Destined to win about 10 games, make the playoffs but face a difficult road game.

It’s a shame to have to write that — but isn’t obvious? The Seahawks have games coming up that they can and should win. They also have games on the horizon where you can foresee struggles.

Right now they’re closer to the boom or bust Panthers than the clean, functioning Philly, LA and New Orleans.

Pete Carroll has to get this team playing clean football. At the moment they aren’t playing at the kind of level befitting the big names on the roster. They need to get out of their own way.

There is some good news from today that I wanted to share with you. I was very kindly invited into a suite for the game today, meaning I had spare tickets. With the help of Brian Nemhauser at Hawkblogger, we made the Club Level tickets available for a donation to Ben’s Fund — the charity set up by Traci & John Schneider to support the following cause:

…to not only provide grants to families to help them obtain services for their children on the spectrum, but also to connect families to FEAT so they will be established in a larger community to receive ongoing guidance and assistance as they continue their journey with autism.

We raised $400 for the charity today.

If you’d like to make a donation yourself, here’s the link.

174 Responses to “Instant reaction: Seahawks lose, fall to 5-3”

  1. AlaskaHawk says:

    Tough loss. I was traveling and could only check in occasionally. I guess I won’t watch the recording when I get home! Really a shame to lose against an average team.

  2. Greg Haugsven says:

    It was ugly but only 1 loss. Hopefully we can get this bad taste out of our mouth in 4 days. To bad you had to see this stink bomb Rob and your trip wasn’t a week earlier.Let’s stay positive and take it out on the Cards.

  3. Elliottatk says:

    Call this a hot take, but at what point should we start questioning the coaching of this team. I know Bevell, Cable, and Richard all get there fair share of flack. But I really am beigining to wonder how much of the blame is on Carrol at this point.

    It’s so frustrating seeing this team just squander so much talent.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      The right time is the end of the season. Talent wise, the squandering is mostly on the defensive side. There are only a few offensive players I would consider above average.

    • Rob Staton says:

      More focus should be on Carroll than the coordinators. At least in my opinion. Seattle is too talented to be playing the way they did today.

      • C-Dog says:

        +1

        Seattle was not the fundamentally more sound team on the field today. An inferior Washington team executed better. Carroll wasted no time acknowledging in his presser that he needs to do a better job getting his players to clean this stuff up.

      • Drew says:

        His comment after the game about thinking they had addressed the penalties….this happens every hear and is always a probke.. Something has to change. So much indiscipline, the most penalties Seattle has had in 33 years.

      • RealRhino2 says:

        Although I’m sure my negative attitude toward Cable has been noted more than a few times on here, I think you are right, Rob. Ultimately the buck stops with PC. He’s let this go on for too long. The penalty issues, the seemingly blase attitude about mistakes/poor choices from Cable, Bevell, Russell, Richard, etc.

        I don’t think the assistants we’ve brought in or promoted have been as good as what we’ve lost. I think Pete’s message of letting players be who they are has morphed into letting them escape accountability for dumb, repeated mistakes. I think his and Russell’s “positive” (i.e., Polyannish) attitude has let them ignore Russell’s glaring shortcomings. Pete thinks everything is just one tweak away from being great, that all these guys that have barely sniffed the field in two years are “real close” to being something special (they aren’t; your evaluation sucked, they suck), that a miracle is right around the corner. The problem with that way of thinking is that it makes you play in ways that require a miracle and you don’t find solutions to real problems.

        We wasted the entire first half or more of this game trying to hit deep shots down the field, when we probably could have easily averaged 6-8 yards on 1st down just throwing short passes that were available all game long or having Russ keep it and scramble instead of holding it until he had to throw it away.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think you raise some fair points.

        • Tien says:

          Agreed, RR. Russell has made so many miraculous plays to help us win games but he still continues making incredibly bad throws (overthrows & underthrows to open receivers or floating a ball to a receiver when zipping it is needed to get it completed in a tight window etc) or just having bad judgment that you don’t expect from a veteran with that many starts under his belt (throwing to a receiver even though it’s so clear that he’s blanketed or regularly going to for the deep pass when the smarter play is to hit the open back or receiver for a shorter gain to move the chains). He had two interceptions today but could have had at least two more by apparently not seeing the defenders when he threw to a receiver and he was saved by the defenders dropping the ball. Russell is a legit franchise QB and we wouldn’t have won the SB and be contenders every year without him on the team but I always cringe when people start throwing the term elite around. He definitely has potential to become elite but until he improves the faults I noted above and can throw effective slants & screens on a regular basis (for some reason we can’t execute these plays and they’re the easiest way to relieve pressure from rushers and gain chunks of yardage to keep the chains moving), I can’t consider him elite.

          I also agree about needing to hold coaches accountable. The 16 penalties are totally unacceptable and despite how great and dominant our defense can and has played at times, whenever the opponent has the ball with a minute or two left to tie or win the game, our defense more often than not fails. I don’t know what the issue is but a truly dominant defense has to shut down offenses in those situations and our D frequently does not. And I also share your frustration about the first half when it was clear that our OL was not able to handle the Redskins’ pass rush and instead of calling quick throws or designed bootlegs/scrambles by Russell, the plays have him just stand back there and go for a deep pass, which usually failed because Russell was running for his life and the receivers couldn’t get open in time.

          I’m still not convinced that there’s any great team in the NFL so if we can just get our act together and get the #1 or #2 seed, we can still make a deep playoff run but if we have to qualify as a wild card and win three games on the road to get to the SB, I’m not optimistic about that happening.

          • Ty the Guy says:

            Tien,
            “…until he improves the faults I noted above and can throw effective slants & screens on a regular basis (for some reason we can’t execute these plays and they’re the easiest way to relieve pressure from rushers and gain chunks of yardage to keep the chains moving)”

            Amen.

      • Joshua Smith says:

        The one thing that drives me nuts – and nobody complains about this for some reason – is our insistence on running the ball out of the endzone on kickoff returns. That has killed us this year. I bet that if you ran the math, it would reveal that we are putting ourselves on average 5 or 6 yards back of the 25. It seems like its a lot more when I watch the shenanigans in real time.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think it’s time to take a knee whenever it goes into the end zone. The 25 is good starting field position and Lockett doesn’t look remotely capable of taking one to the house.

          • Ty the Guy says:

            The Evolution of The 2017 Seattle Seahawks Offense:

            “We are going to get back to smashmouth football and have a dominating run game.”

            “We are going to put the ball in our best playmaker’s hands and let Russ run this offense.”

            “We are going to try to throw it deep, so our WRs can show they are all Randy Moss and if not then Russ will run as far forward as he can.”

            I do not have the answers, but I know something is wrong here. There is no reason we should be consistently not scoing in the first half. The big play/deep throw style only works if you can get the defense to commit to stopping the run with 7 or 8 defenders. I think Rawls should get more opportunities (he is the only one left at this point) and if that is shut down, we need to have Russ play a little more like Hasselbeck and hit some timing routes/quick hitters. Just take what the defense gives. Baby steps. Sustain drives.

            16 penalties? C’mon Pete.

            This team is too talented to lose a game like this. It’s on Carrroll, Bevell, and Russ.

          • pran says:

            well said and also avoid some penalties

  4. JC says:

    The Houdini wins that built most of the 5-2 start was bound to have some reversion to the mean. There’s not been enough games like those enjoyed by the Eagles and Rams today. I expect to see more bringing of the pressure on Thursday by the Cards… hopefully it can be handled better than most of today, or the Jets and Texans will enjoy a sudden jump up the draft boards on our backs.

    • Joshua Smith says:

      Luck has always played a role in the NFL. By right, we should have won the Packers game. We also got hosed by the refs in Nashville, but its up for debate if that cost us the win. Yesterday there were some questionable calls against us as well I thought. Definitely we should have won the Packers game though, and if we had we would be sitting at 6 – 2 right now.

  5. drewdawg11 says:

    So many issues with this staff today:

    1. They had our limited offensive repertoire scouted. They saw the play action let, boot right plays last week and they had to sniffed out every single time. One of two defenders waiting for Russell. Our offensive game plan was weak.

    2. We were running the ball much better today, so naturally, we abandoned it like we were down 20 instead of down one score. Why can’t they just be patient? Also, running the ball limits the penalties in pass protections. When we booted, they had the edge and our guys grabbed.

    3. False starts twice coming out of a timieout. How…? Just a lack of focus or something, today.

    4. Lack of a kicking game was unexpected and it threw off the playcallig. Going for two twice was a little unnecessary and they couldn’t execute those plays.

    5. They had to go 70 yards in a minute and a half and it took two passing plays. They went man and got beat easily both times. Was Earl’s absence what caused the strange defensive calls? If anything I would have gone cover 3 and forced them to sink and dunk.

    6. The choke factor of this team has always been up and down. Today they were beaten by an inferior roster. We aren’t tough anymore. The whole “we want to run the mall” speech is lip service. Don’t buy it anymore. They want to be a passing team now and we don’t have the line for it.

  6. Smitty1547 says:

    We stunk are Offense, Defense, Special teams and coaching at every level
    Why were we in press coverage at the end of the game especially when your HOF safety is out.
    Why do you have 15 penalties and continue to drop passes.
    Why does an offense line that was bagging groceries 2 weeks ago outplay are offense line.

    Wagner, Baldwin and Feeney balled out the rest of the team stank it up and would have lost to E Washington today, such a disappointment.

    When we added Richardson, i thought we were SB bound, then Brown great are one week spot. The only place the hawks are going to is a wild card playoff game on the road this year. The talent is there something else is missing. to many clubhouse lawyers time to clean house with new blood.

  7. neil says:

    What a terrible game! You could put the loss on Walsh, but it was a team effort. 16 penalties for 138 yards, it’s hard to win with stats like that. The sad part is it never seems to get better. The glaring difference between Carroll and Belichick is Belichick demands discipline on the field from his players. I had hoped this team could recreate the 2013 or 2014 seasons, that doesn’t look likely. I am sure RW will put a happy face on it this week though.

  8. Preston says:

    Maybe I’m just frustrated in the moment, but this game seems to put the last excuse to rest for Bevell.. with so many stars on offense, I can’t help but think what so many other offensive coordinators could do with this talent. Before it was always the oline as the scape goat for ineffective drives. Sure, there isn’t much of a run game, but GUESS WHAT? The redskins just beat us with reserve players all over their offense. I just don’t see why we have kept this guy calling our plays for so long!

    • Rob Staton says:

      I’m not sure why it comes back to Bevell specifically today. The stupid, avoidable penalties had a huge impact on the offense. They got into position in horrible conditions to score three times, all three missed kicks.

      It was another offensive struggle for sure — but everything was horrible at one point or another. The offense, defense, special teams, the penalties. When a team is that bad across the board the responsibility falls with the HC.

    • joel says:

      Bevell had nothing to do with receivers dropping the ball or Wilson throwing interceptions or an O-line that can’t block. I guess we can blame Bevell for not scheming receivers open more but he still can’t fix the drops and Wilson’s inconsistent passing.

      We surely can’t blame Bevell for all the penalties, or the horrible blocking on special teams, or the inexplicable poor kicking from Walsh.

      We surely can’t blame Bevell for the absurd luck that Cousins had on a few of those passes, or the horrible coverage to end the game that allowed Wash to score as time was running out.

      Blame Bevell for the bad 2 pt conversions plays, but those should not have been necessary if the team was actually functioning at the level it should have.

  9. BobbyK says:

    I would love to see a stat comparing false start penalties over an X number of years (and this year). We know Carroll teams are heavily penalized. That’s a given. But the excuse is always how they are so aggressive on defense. But I don’t know how much that can be true when it seems we always have so many false starts (or holding) penalties on offense (or something stupid on special teams).

    This is just the frustration in me tonight, but this is what I think of with this team this season… Tyler Lockett returns a kick-off 394 yards back in the end zone and gets tackled well short of the 25-yard line. And then there’s got to be some penalty to bring it half the distance. I’m over exaggerating, I know, but that’s what’s in my head when I think of this team right now…

    The positives: You don’t win the Super Bowl in November and I know they can still do this thing. I’m excited to see experience on the left side when Joeckel returns. And Freeney is already our best pass rusher in crunch time. The sky isn’t falling, but they don’t have the room for error they once did either.

    • Rob Staton says:

      The margin for error has all but gone now at three losses. If they want a playoff bye, and that had to be the target at the start of the year, they can probably ill-afford more than another loss. Two maximum.

  10. Nolyon says:

    I know this game was bad. But for me, 5-3 doesn’t seem like the end of the world. We have seen this team have slow starts in seasons a lot. They get hot at the end.

    We have seen the defense be dominant. We have seen Russell be dominant. It’s still there.

    I know we are behind the Eagles and the Rams but we get to play both of those teams still this year. Winning the west and the NFC is still in front of us.

    It’s weird how fast this fan base goes from NFC is wide open no one is that good to. The rams and eagles are world beaters we have no shot.

    It’s one game and two games back against two teams we still get to play.

    I’m not sure it will happen. But this team feels better than 10-6 to me. The grit is still there. I actually think a tough December is good for us. This team has a history of playing up to good teams and down to bad ones. Give me a difficult December. Let every game be a monster. That’s when we play best.

    Go. Hawks.

  11. Drew says:

    This makes me sad to say, but is this Kam’s last year in Seattle? He’s been assignment correct so far this year, but hes been inconsistent in pass defense and has missed some tackles (got his ankles broken by Nuke Hopkins last week). Hes clearly a step slower and no longer the difference maker he used to be. When was the last time he made an impact play?

  12. Ishmael says:

    That was a shocking, sloppy, mess of a game.

    They were never in control. Even when they finally got something rolling they’d ruin it with penalties, bad decision making, or a missed field goal or three.

    Felt like that game was more on the coaches than it was the players. They need to get a better handle on things asap.

  13. Rawls says:

    Why does the team continue to throw deep play action passes? Why can’t we use checkdowns and hit medium passes like all the other great offenses?

    • Drew says:

      Russ threw it deep 13 times (most this weekend) and only completed 2

      • C-Dog says:

        IMO, I think Wilson got caught being greedy today. I think there were checkdowns and underneath stuff there. If you remember any cut away shots of Bevel on this sideline, he looked caught somewhere between depressed and annoyed a few times.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Did anyone get a count on how many deep routes had two receivers in same place? I’m just curious.

  14. nichansen01 says:

    FIRE WALSH

  15. C-Dog says:

    1. Not going to take anything away from Washington, or the grittiness of Kirk Cousins on their game winning drive, but I think Seattle got caught playing down to the level of their opponent after coming off the big shoot out win agains the Texans. 16 penalties and three missed field goals is inexcusable on a day the offense turned over the ball twice. Seattle should have won this game period. But in my glass have full way, maybe this is a good game to loose at this point of the season.

    2. I’m not anywhere ready to acknowledge that this team is destined for a 10-6 season. They have just acquired their new left tackle who just played his second game of the season, and I think things get better there. While the Rams and Eagles feel more complete, Seattle hosts both teams, and already beat the Rams once. Speaking of which, this gimpy Washington team beat those pesky Rams earlier in the Season. The NFC is still up for grabs. Seattle just needs to stop beating itself.

    3. Speaking of which, not a great game by Russell Wilson by an stretch, but I did like his press conference, and maybe for the first time during one, a sense that he might be a bit pissed off, like he knew he wasn’t his best and they let one get away. A little more pissed off and urgent RW could be a decent shot in the arm. I thought today he got kinda greedy waiting for the big plays and didn’t take easier stuff in front of him. I think he bounces back against the Cardinals.

    4. Nice to see Thomas Rawls get going more. Hopefully the addition of Duane Brown will give him more confidence as a runner and he will feel that he can be a bit more patient. Will be interesting to see if they activate Mike Davis if Lacy can’t go on Thursday. Could Rawls be a story of redemption moving forward?

    5. Really nice play on the by the young DTs with Richardson out in Naz Jones, Jarran Reed, and even Quenton Jefferson getting a sack. Could Naz Jones actually make Sheldon Richardson expendable?

    6. Terrific play from the defense most of the way. Really wish they could have finished it out. Can’t blame the offense fully for this loss when the defense can’t put together the stop it needs to do in the last minute and a half. That said, I think they take it out against the Cardinals on Thursday.

    7. Credit the Washington defense for scheming well against RW in the passing game sending inside pressure and keeping a spy on him. Didn’t seem like Pocic or Aboushi had the best days under the circumstance. Didn’t think Seattle adjusted fast enough.

    8. Germaine Ifedi needs to settle down, sure, but that was also former pro bowler Duane Brown with a false start. Lots of blame to pass around, don’t be shy. Picking on one player or facet gets stagnant. False starts, illegal motions, inaccurate passes, dropped balls, jumping offsides, personal fouls, giving up explosive plays, missed field gulls, dropped INT opportunities. Yeah, you tend to loose games when a lot of this happens, and Seattle still could have won.

    9. Even if Seattle were to finish with 10 wins and a wildcard spot, that would continue a heck of a stretch dating back to 2012. That said, I think they end up with more.

    10. Mock Draft Post Washington Game

    26: R1P26
    G BILLY PRICE
    OHIO STATE

    Seattle follows the Dallas model and grabs Best OL Available.

    R2. SHELDON RICHARDSON

    I think Seattle extends him

    128: R4P26
    TE DALLAS GOEDERT
    SOUTH DAKOTA STATE

    Seattle probably looses one of JG or Luke Willson, if not both, and probably drafts a TE at some point.

    145: R5P7
    DL RASHEEM GREEN
    USC

    Seattle has been scouting USC. Might this be the Trojan they like?

    151: R5P13
    RB SONY MICHEL
    GEORGIA

    Seattle drafts a RB to complement Chris Carson

    166: R5P28
    CB KEVIN TOLIVER
    LSU

    Seattle drafts another outside corner.

    228: R7P6
    LB KEISHAWN BIERRIA
    WASHINGTON

    Seattle drafts a Husky LB

    251: R7P29
    QB KENNY HILL
    TCU

    Seattle drafts a developmental QB

    254: R7P32
    OT DAVID BRIGHT
    STANFORD

    Seattle drafts another OT to compete.

    • neil says:

      To get to 10 wins they can only lose 3 more. Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, Rams { the second time wont be any easier than the first} Thursday will determine their fate this season, as I see it, Remember Stanton has played well against the Hawks in the past.

      • Pran says:

        Hawks win against mediocre QBs. So Stanton wouldn’t stand a chance. Only game we won against good QB is Watson unless you count Goff.

        Tough games on slate wentz, dak, matt Ryan. Here we go 10-6

      • C-Dog says:

        It’s going to be a big matchup this Thursday, for sure. I gotta feeling that they will rebound against the Cardinals.

        This was a rough loss. It’s totally understandable for doubt in the team to creep back in. However, Seattle beat themselves. Their penalty yardage was more than the yardage the Washington offense gained. I’m going to call this a bit of a misnomer

        I don’t know what the stats of this is, but I seem to recall Seattle tending to bounce back quickly from games like this in the past, especially in a short week. There’s literally no room to dwell on it.

        Of the remaining games left on the schedule, the one that worries me the most is the one at Jacksonville. Does Seattle lose another game or two? Sure, they likely do, but when the schedule came out, I saw about an 11-5 season. I saw probable losses at the Giants and Rams, and they won those. So they lose to the skins. S*** happens in the NFL. They just won four in a row. They can go on that kind of run again.

        • Pran says:

          My point is.. we are not measuring up against good QBs. We lost today because its cousins on the other side, any other ordinary QB we could have won sloppy. In playoffs we won’t be lucky to face ordinary QBs

          • C-Dog says:

            I was responding to Neil. But, IMO, if Seattle does what it’s capable of, it doesn’t matter the QB. I wouldn’t say Cousins beat Seattle more than Seattle beat Seattle, was really my point.

            • AlaskaHawk says:

              When Seahawks beat themselves in mid season, and the short week doesn’t allow much practice time – that’s a problem. One thing not discussed was that Thomas and Richardson weren’t playing. I have to think the defense would have shut Cousins down if they were there.

              • Rob Staton says:

                Possibly so. The reason I didn’t mention Earl or Sheldon in the piece was because the Redskins fielded 43 players and had many more key starters absent. As significant as Thomas and Richardson are, the Seahawks should’ve had more than enough to beat Washington at home.

                • C-Dog says:

                  Precisely.

                • AlaskaHawk says:

                  Yes I agree. I wonder about the psychology on the team when you rest key players. One message is that you think the rest of the team can handle it. Another is you think the ppponent is week – so maybe they don’t prepare as hard.

              • C-Dog says:

                Maybe it’s me and my own rosey glasses, but I seem to recall a few times in recent history where the Pete Carroll Seahawks essentially pooped themselves on Sunday and then turned around in a short week to have a solid bounce back game on Thursday night. I think there is possibly something in that short preparation where the players don’t have time to dwell and have to zero in, especially with a quarterback known pick it up in the crunch, when urgency is needed.

                They will look at tape. Russ will see 13 shots down field with only 2 completions and underneath stuff available. Pete will probably spend what little extra time they got emphasizing the need to stay on schedule presnap and cleanup the slop, but then they got to go. Urgency might be a benefit here.

        • Smitty1547 says:

          Jacksonville has become the bully we use to be, they embarrass are whinny soft ass, even if the game is at home which it’s not. I expect about 5 personal fouls from are undisciplined team when the lose there cool after getting beat on all day.

  16. Ishmael says:

    I’m not usually a fire the coaches guy, but games like this do push you to your limits. When you can watch a silky smooth offense like the Rams peeling off yards for fun, an offensive line made up of street free-agents matching the Hawks, defences and special teams around the league that manage not to give up penalties every second snap…

    Honestly, it’s just not a well coached team from top to bottom. Outside of maybe the secondary. Closest parallel I can think of is maybe the Cavaliers in the NBA. Make the game as simple as possible, let your stars out-talent their stars. Works most of the time, because the players are good enough, but man.

    I’ve got no way of knowing from the outside, but you look at the names on the coaching staff and it’s hard not to think the claws of nepotism have started to sink in.

    • mishima says:

      Agree. This team is a mess and that falls on the coaches and FO. Gripe supreme: Running game.

      Lacy (slow), Rawls (runs stupid), Prosise (broken), Carson (inexperienced). Always compete? Lacy beat out Brooks? Right.

      Joeckel (injured) Aboushi (weak) anchoring the interior… Fant (inexperienced) holding down LT… Joeckel is out, Aboushi is getting stood up, blown up, Fant is our new great LT hope. Sigh. It shouldn’t have taken Fant getting injured to get JS on the phone with Houston.

      Half measures. We should know better. Without a run game, we’re not going anywhere.

      Own it, change it, move on.

  17. JC says:

    So win percentage wise, Baldwin should have slid at the 1. 3 kneel downs and put the game on Walsh’s back, which obviously is the complicating factor. 1:34 timeout #1, 1:33 timeout #2, kneel, kneel, :12 FG attempt. Up 1, 11 seconds, WAS with 0 timeouts. More here:

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21307407/seattle-seahawks-late-touchdown-cost-win

    • Awsi Dooger says:

      Definitely. I thought about that while watching the game, that Baldwin should have given himself up. The players simply aren’t schooled to think that way but percentage wise one team after another makes the familiar mistake.

      I learned about it the hard way as a Dolphins fan as a kid. That 1974 Miami/Oakland playoff game is very famous, the Sea of Hands game with typically stone handed Clarence Davis making the grab in the end zone to give the Raiders the 28-26 victory and essentially end the Miami mini dynasty. What isn’t remembered is what preceded it. The Dolphins trailed 21-19 and were methodically driving for a winning field goal. That’s what everyone in my household wanted. Dolphin players themselves wanted it. But a rookie running back named Bennie Malone could break tackles far better than he understood game strategy. Malone took a sweep to the right and busted through 4 or 5 tackle attempts into the end zone from maybe 20 yards out. He spiked the ball in defiance. But it left Kenny Stabler slightly more than two minutes. Dolphin fans were collectively nervous. Bob Griese said later that as Malone was making that run he was thinking to himself, “No, Benny…don’t do it. Come back.”

      • Old but Slow says:

        Great story. I was a big Stabler fan. That lefty could throw it from all kinds of angles, and he wasn’t called the snake for nothin’. He could run and hide, but injuries slowed him down and he became a magician.

        Too bad he is not an announcer, a great voice and a great talent.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      when your FG kicker misses 3 in the game, you are taking the TD.
      And, the D should have held up. That seemed like a DC problem, he should have had the D set to let nothing behind them and force them to dink and dunk

      just a disappointing loss. When you lose to an undermanned Washington squad at home, it seems to point to this being a flawed team that will not be in the Super Bowl. They have a kicker who we knew might have a melt down, they get way too many bad penalties and the d gives up too many big plays. And Russell did not play like an MVP. He could have had 4 interceptions today, he was not accurate. Cannot keep waiting until the last minute to turn up your game.
      Just does not seem to be their year. Only half way through, but they have things to fix fast, or we they might not even make the playoffs.

  18. nichansen01 says:

    Coaching philosophy is flawed. Personnel isn’t the issue, though the drafting has been flawed.

  19. GerryG says:

    The game plan was suspect imo. So many slow developing plays and deeps shots. Where the quick play to combat an aggressive rush?

    Why did they quit running in the middle of the game? Seemed a little more effective than it had been this year.

    The penalties are unbelievable at this point. A lot of blame goes on Carroll for sure. I’m thinking half our ST returns have penalties. I don’t even remember a defensive penalty today.

    Speaking of the defense they should have been way more disruptive against that OL of replacements.

  20. Pran says:

    Just reset expectation .. mariners feel very very lucky to be a wild card in play offs. Hawks are happy to stroll in to play offs as a wild card, play a game or two return home. Seeing the last 4 seasons, only the teams that consistently dominated the competition made to super bowl ala hawks, pats, broncos, panthers, falcons. This must be the year of eagles and pats (again). We don’t have it this year and may be losing again to another NFC south team falcons in divisional ?

  21. Nate says:

    Is it just me or does this offense not have any killer instinct whatsoever? Say what you will about the Rams, but they blew the doors off the Giants within one half of football. In comparison, it took almost an entire game for us to grind out a win against the same team.

    I believe that much of the blame falls on coaching; stagnant offensive scheme, lazy/conservative playcalling, lack of discipline, etc. If this coaching staff refuses to adapt, I don’t see how the Seahawks make a deep playoff run unless we get extremely lucky.

    With that being said, Walsh missing 3 FG’s today definitely did not help either.

    • peter says:

      okay I’ll say what I will about the rams. Seattle beat them. And a W regardless of how it happens is the most important stat in football.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        Which means the Rams will be fired up the next time we see them. Between the play calling, coaching, and poor performance it is hard to single anything out.

      • Michigan 12th says:

        Yes we won against the Rams, but you have to argue that they beat themselves n that game, just like we are saying that we beat ourselves this past Sunday. If we don’t get five turnovers we don’t win that game against the Rams. If we do not play a lot better than we have been playing we will not beat the Rams in Seattle.

        • peter says:

          but they did get 5 turnovers. why is it when a team gives 5 turnovers that’s an erasable stat line and gets turned into a “if they didn’t do “x” they would have won?” why talk about TO differential at all.

          the rams were at home playing mostly hot and jacked up their game and seattle got the W.

          • Michigan 12th says:

            Because you can not count on getting 5 turnovers every time you play a game. Turnovers are important, and the defense did cause them. Can we count on Gurley to not protect the ball while he is crossing the goal line again? Nope. Cane we count on Earl being there in the nick of time as Gurley is about to cross the goal line? Nope. Can we count on Naz intercepting a pass every time the Seahawks play? Nope Can we count on Sherman having two interceptions every time he plays on Sunday? Nope The Rams played sloppy football, and that’s what cost them that game against us. It’s the same argument we are making for why Seattle lost to the Redskins. Right now the Rams are the better team, and deserve to be mentioned as such until we prove differently. Sorry man, I am a Seahawk fan through and through, but the Rams are playing better football right now. We are not playing winning football. We are getting lucky. I just hope the players in the locker room recognize this before it’s too late.

      • mishima says:

        Sure, but you can’t deny the Rams are building confidence while the Seahawks are losing it.

        If the Hawks don’t evolve/adapt, the Rams and Niners will supplant them sooner rather than later up top the division.

  22. drewdawg11 says:

    This is ridiculous. You don’t want him to give himself up because there’s no guarantee that they’ll score if he does. So you kneel down until the clock goes down to a few seconds and then trot out the guy who has missed three kicks and place the pressure back on his narrow shoulders? I’m sorry, but the players failed to execute a very poorly called defensive scheme and it cost them.

    • Sea Mode says:

      Not ridiculous at all IMO. Walsh missed 49 yarders; from the 5 yard line (after two kneel downs) he would have to try real hard to miss.

      Agree though: our defense should not be allowing deep shots with 1:30 left and 75 yards to go…

  23. vrtkolman says:

    It took nearly three quarters to target Graham, which always confuses me.

  24. Old but Slow says:

    Very forgettable from several angles. Memory: shut off.

  25. Sea Mode says:

    So, honest question here. How is it on the coaching staff to “clean up penalties”? I hear lots of people saying that PC needs to do this, but what is he realistically going to do, get the team together and say: “ok, everybody, no more penalties from here on out. Understood?”

    I can see it for the ST/illegal block penalties. Make a coaching emphasis in practice to clean it up and insist that players rather leave it on Lockett to make the defender miss if they do get beaten instead of the desperation penalty.

    But for false starts, offsides, and many others, it seems like just a string of individual mistakes that add up. I mean, didn’t each lineman except Britt, plus Jimmy each have a false start to their name? Last week it was even RW and the fullback if I’m remembering correctly… Fine them for each penalty or something as an incentive to pay attention to detail and keep clean? What can he do?

    • Rob Staton says:

      I think it’s the sheer number that is problematic, and that’s why Carroll bears some responsibility. When a team makes 16 of these mistakes in three quarters, that speaks to an ill-disciplined situation. That’s not to absolve the players of their responsibility for the mess — but ultimately the man in charge has to find a way to get this corrected. It is not a one-off. The Redskins won that game, in part, because they got out of their own way and hung with the Seahawks. Seattle kept them in it despite a huge difference in yards, yards per play, sacks, etc because of mistakes.

    • C-Dog says:

      Here’s how I see it with the head coach. False starts, illegal shifts, etc with Mike Holmgren were inexcusable. He’d blow gaskets during a game if it happened. For him, they should never happen. If they did in practice, he would have them run the the same play over to assure it didn’t happen again.

      Pete may not be that way. He wants his players to play with an edge, so jumps offsides etc can be a residual of that, and he might be more willing to live with that, to a point. There comes a time where it can catch up.

      Holds can happen. You’ve got a short scrambling QB and a relatively slow footed RT. Russ scrambles right looking to extend for a deep shot and that could force an Ifedi hold. You aren’t going to control everything, but the presnap stuff, the stuff that would drive Holmgren to a sideline explosion, should not happen. They can emphasize that stuff.

  26. LeoSharp says:

    54 pass attempts and 18 deep pass plays. Lacy went down and there was no next man up mentality with Rawls or Mckissic.

  27. H says:

    Credit Washington for playing a great game whilst up against it with all the injures. Defensively their game plan was fantastically played out; send pressure at Wilson, don’t give up the deep ball and Zach Brown keep a watchful eye on Wilson. Also credit to Cousins for a couple beautiful throws I would have otherwise greatly enjoyed.
    Even so Seattle very much beat themselves and should have won that game.
    Call me an optimist but these games happen in the NFL and I am by no means ready to anoint the Rams NFC west champs. We already beat them once and they also lost to the Redskins. So what, they blew out the Giants by more than we did? Big whoop.
    I will admit, we may have faltered a few to many times this season to make up the difference against a Carson Wentz led Eagles, haunting the dreams of Browns fans, but the West, and even a first round bye, can be achieved if we can just clean up some very fixable issues.
    Go Hawks!

    • Sea Mode says:

      Credit specifically to Cousins who stood in there and took some huge shots while somehow getting the ball off accurately. I respect that.

      • Tien says:

        Agreed, Cousins made some amazing throws right before getting crushed by a Seahawk(s)! But we still gave away the game yesterday with so many unforced mistakes, that’s what really disappointing.

  28. Trevor says:

    I think Sherman’s comments about Pete last year when he said the vets have basically tuned out the same old rah rah kumbaya message each year was quite telling and is showing up in play on the field.

    The penalties and mistakes are almost all lack of focus and prep which is inexcusable. The Vets like Kam seemed to keep players accountable but now you have a team of mostly high paid vets and the message is clearly falling on deaf ears.

    I have never thought Pete was a great XOs coach but I thought he was the best motivator and decent game manager. Iif he has lost the ability to motivate this group it may be time for a change at the top this off season. It kills me to say that as I think along with JS and Paul Allen that Pete is the best thing that has ever happened to the Hawks organization.

  29. Hawk Eye says:

    I can describe the hawks in one word: Inconsistent

    Russell is not the same QB game to game. He has games where he is elite and games where he struggles. He usually is good at the end of each half, but he has too many games where he has stretches where he is not accurate. He seems to really struggle against certain defensive coordinators and dominate others. Why does GB stop him and are average with other QB’s?

    The defense gets lots of 3 and outs and then cannot stop a drive. The last drive by Washington is not what a championship team gives up. I know a lot of guys here love Griffen, but I see a guy that gets beat a lot when the other team needs to make a play. And Kam seems solid, but no longer special. The D line has gotten pressure the last 2 games, but had struggled to get pressure in many other games this year. Still a good defense, but no one is afraid of them anymore and they are giving up too many big plays. Houston and Tennessee walked all over them.

    The offensive line has improved, but has too many penalties, has not yet been very good in run blocking and Russell masks their pass blocking failures. Jimmy has moments, but has not had a great game start to finish this year. The only 2 guys who seem to always be productive are Baldwin and Britt. Play calling seems to go from wow to meh.

    Special teams seems average, with too many penalties and the fear that Walsh would lose a game for them just came true. Can you believe in a kicker that does not believe in himself?

    too many penalties, and they are not the penalties that come from being aggressive and trying to dominate the opponent. but rather mental breakdowns.

    not yet time to panic, but also time to realize the truth. There may be too many problems to solve and hope that they can make the playoffs and then have 4 great games in a row and win the Super Bowl.
    I think we can expect to have a few more great games and a few more games like this where they crap the bed.

    • Smitty1547 says:

      Inconsistent for sure, one week we could beat the Pats, the next week be struggling to finish off E. Washington, it’s what you would expect from a young team not an old one it baffles me.

  30. YankinTa says:

    This is what I mean when I say this Seahawks Defense is OveRRated. Very disappointing so far.

    Yet so many people were ready to call Watson the next Andrew Luck…. We just saw what Cousins did with half his team injured,, on the Road!!, in our own Home!!….

    There is no way we win the SuperBowl with this Defense. Time to make two coaching changes,, Tom Cable and Kris Richard have got to go. It’s been a long time coming…..

    • Rob Staton says:

      This weeks episode of coordinator scapegoats is brought to you by Burger King

      • YankinTa says:

        lol,,thanks. 🙂

        Actually I’ve been saying that for a while now. I’ve been very underwhelmed by Tom Cable and Kris Richards the past 2 years,, for very good reasons….

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think the Cable hand-wringing is overplayed. I think if people look at what he’s had to work with for three years, they’ll understand why the line hasn’t performed. I suspect with Brown at left tackle and some of the moves we’ve made the O-line will develop into a possible strength, relatively speaking.

          Richard — I get it. But the Head Coach is also defensively minded, and Richard is a Carroll disciple.

          For me I think it’s too easy sometimes to look at the coordinator, especially when the Head Coach is popular. Ultimately if this team continues to underperform — and they are, in my opinion, at 5-3, the responsibility lies with the Head Coach.

          • YankinTa says:

            Rob, I’ll give you one example.

            Last year’s 1st game,, our O-line struggle badly against Dolphins D-line,, RW got hurt. The next game, the same Dolphins D-line played against the Patriots. I watched both game closely. Patriots O-line had 2 Rookies (4th and 5th rd picks playing due to injuries), 1 new starter. Basically half their O-line was brand new.

            How did they manhandle that same Dolphins D-line that kicked Tom Cable and our D-line behinds just 1 week before??

            And please don’t get me started about Kris Richards…

            • Rob Staton says:

              As I said in my other post though, look at what this team had given Cable to work with. Look at the tackles on the roster, look at the inexperience inside.

              At no point yesterday was I sat watching the game thinking the O-line was costing the Seahawks.

              • YankinTa says:

                lol,, we must have been watching two different Seahawks games.. 🙂

                btw, thanks for all your hardwork on the draft. I enjoy reading your posts… 🙂

              • YankinTa says:

                I agree that this team hadn’t given Cable much but the same goes for the other O-line coaches that have done better with late round draft picks. Much better. My example above is a very good example….

                Cable and Richards has got to go or we gonna end up regretting 5-10 years from now on,, wasting away our best players’ prime,, having won only 1 SB in 2013.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  You’ll have to give me some examples of O-line coaches who were given what Cable had at the start of last year. Seattle had by far the cheapest OL in the league.

                  I’m not sure why we have these conversations after every loss. The O-line was NOT one of the big problems yesterday.

                  • YankinTa says:

                    Okay, maybe Cable should be considered Offensive-line Coach of the year then…. His O-line has been the Top 3-5 in allowing QB pressure every year since he came to Seattle.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    I long for the day Seahawks fans don’t just fall back on old faithful — blaming Cable or Bevell — for a loss.

                    So many topics to dissect today. And yet we’re stuck on this. Again.

              • AlaskaHawk says:

                Yes the whole point of many articles has been that all offensive drafts are suffering from lack of quality college teams. Yet some teams continue to field rookies who play decently. What is the difference in methods? It all comes down to draft selection, coaching and injury free season.

                • YankinTa says:

                  Yes, AlaskaHawk,, I think you and I are on the same page, almost. I think that we’ve been trying different things to improve this O-line. How did Redskins D-line/Front 7 with 2nd and 3rd stringers put that much pressure on us?? It’s time to change the one common denominator in Seahawks O-line equation….

                  What did Einstein say about Insanity? “the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting the same result”.

                  It’s time to let Cable and Richards go…..

                • Rob Staton says:

                  This is not true Alaska. It’s just classic grass is always greener thinking that Seahawks fans have become very good at recently. No other team fielded an OL like Seattle’s last year. And teams are, across the board with only a handful of exceptions, struggling up front.

                  The reason I’ve written so many of those articles is purely for this reason. To counter some of these points that keep being repeated.

                  • YankinTa says:

                    Hey Rob, did you notice that RW had to rush the Hail Mary at the end of the game? Redskins called a 1-Man Rush. Our O-line couldn’t protect RW. RW was under pressure. Maybe Redskins should have called 1-Man Rush half of the game, and the results may not have been different…. lol 🙂

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Yes, I saw the Redskins D-liner beat his man on that play, but because it was a one man rush Wilson avoided it with ease.

                    This isn’t the topic to waste time on today.

              • mishima says:

                Agree. I think Cable is a good coach and has had little to nothing to work with.

                That said, JS/PC created that problem and have tried to solve it with players like Joeckel, Aboushi, Lacy. That’s on them. Keep it simple: Draft well (difficult) + sign talent (expensive) or nothing.

                With this FO and coaching staff, it might be better to reallocate money from the D (where they have excelled at identifying and developing talent) and to the O (where they have failed). If you can’t build it, buy it.

                • YankinTa says:

                  Mishima, I’m sorry but Tom Cable being a good coach is an opinion not backed by FACTS.

                  The Facts are RW has been the most pressured QB since he entered NFL. The Facts are we have been an average or below running team (minus RW rushing yards). The Facts are Other coaches have been given little to work with yet they have done much better,, please see/READ my Example to Rob above,, 🙂

          • YankinTa says:

            And btw, in that game, Jimmy Garoppolo had three touchdown passes before leaving in the second quarter with a right shoulder injury, Patriots had to play a Rookie QB (mid round pick) and Both QBs had over 100 QB ratings because O-line had zero trouble with that Dolphins D-line…

      • Smitty1547 says:

        You got to do something or we will one day be watching specials on NFL channel about how a pass in SB blew up are chance of a dynasty.

        Speaking off such play, is it safe to say it should be removed from playbook to never be used again! I know it was not exact play but same concept!

        • Ground_Hawk says:

          Unless it’s drawn up as a QB scramble, or designed run, then yes, it doesn’t need to be a goal-line play. Being lined up on the GL, there just isn’t enough separation between the DB’s and WR/TE, for that play to be highly effective, IMO.

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Don’t forget that Thomas and Richardson sat out the game.

      • Smitty1547 says:

        You do realize they had a garbage man and a dishwasher playing for them right, as they were playing 3rd stringers on there line

    • H says:

      Fire the kit men! I mean seriously how long are we going to stand by and allow Walsh to be sent out there with shoes that are obviously too small for him!!! Does always compete not apply to them!?
      I know, I know, I have absolutely no insight into the particular power structure of those scenarios or what exactly caused whatever issues that may or may not be happening behind the scenes, but so long as its always someone easily replaceable’s fault.
      Fire Kris Cabevvel!!!

  31. Calgaryhawk says:

    Just some thoughts on this years team:

    1) This team has a pair of speedsters in Lockett and Richardson at WR and Baldwin is just plain good. Throw in a talent like Graham and you would think that it is a dream recipe for slants, button hooks and timing routes. Any team that plays the Seahawks knows they have 4 to 8 seconds to put pressure on the QB because the game plan seems to rely on Wilson letting plays develop in front of him. I am probably wrong but I don’t remember one screen play by the Hawks in yesterdays game. Many teams have 6 or 8 different screen plays on their books. Quicker passing plays and screen plays should help with some of the line penalties and frustrate defenses by completing passes to spots they just left. I would also like to see more plays where the play is called in the huddle then one “hut” then the snap. Save longer cadence for when its needed, makes the defense antsy.
    2) Is Richard Sherman on the decline? Don’t get me wrong, he is still a very good corner but I don’t remember him getting so many pass interference calls as this year. Or just getting plain out beat. Never mind his physical skills, he was always so good technically. It seems to me that teams are more willing to throw in his direction.
    3) In hockey, if a player makes a totally bonehead play or takes a stupid penalty, it’s not uncommon for that player to end up riding the pine (as the saying goes) for a period or two. Now over an eighty plus game schedule it’s not a big deal but it does get the message through loud and clear. I can’t remember this coaching staff ever sitting a player for taking a penalty. Coach Carroll says the main mantra is “competition, competition, competition!”. Well let them compete on a discipline level not just talent. Sit the odd player for a series or two if they screw up.
    4) Management has lost its advantage. Teams used to draft college talent, plug them in and if they were good they made the team. If not, they were gone. The Seahawks were one of the first teams to draft on physical abilities and mental makeup then coach them up even if it took 2 or 3 years. Now a lot of teams are looking for the same type of talent. I don’t blame the Seahawks for trying to find talent that they can convert to O linemen but it seems like a yearly project. I have nightmares of the Seahawks drafting a punter so Coach Cable can try and turn him into a guard.
    5) Lastly, I think the Patriots set the template a few years back on how to keep a team in contention year after year. They are never shy about trading a star player before he becomes something less. Of course they used to get a 1st or 2nd rounder for them and now 3rd or later is the norm. I don’t think this team has to make wholesale changes this coming off season but as a fan, I doubt I’d be upset if they let a star player go especially if they got something good in return.

    • vrtkolman says:

      I think management is just fine. This year’s draft class is looking sensational. I was fine with both big trades because I thought that would put the team over the top, but it’s clear that this team is really under-achieving. Some of the players just don’t look as focused this as they have in the past. Penalties, dropped picks, running backs missing holes and cut back lanes, cornerbacks letting receivers get over the top in critical situations.

    • C-Dog says:

      It seems to me that Russell was perhaps trying too much to replicate his play against the Texans and was taking too many shots down field when he had underneath stuff available. I’ve been a big time defender of Russ on this board, but I lay blame on him for this.

      That said, I think this team is set up for the quick pass. It should have been the counter for what the Washington defense was doing. I think Russ excels going uptempo with it. It might be counter to what the HC wants to do at times, but at the halfway point, they are what they are. It will be interesting to see what they do moving forward with Lacy now injured and Prosise unreliable. This might not be the year to grind it.

      • vrtkolman says:

        It was a strange gameplan for sure… Attacking the strength of the Redskins D (secondary) and ignoring their weakness (coverage linebackers).

        • C-Dog says:

          Was it the game plan, or was it Russ being greedy, trying too hard to make big plays happen?

          There was one particular cutaway shot of Bevel on the sideline looking fairly upset. Pete was quick in his press conference to say Russ was not settled and couldn’t find rhythm. Pete has been complementary of Russ in earlier games this year when the offense struggled. I’m not sure that was the game plan taking 13 deep shots.

          • pran says:

            with all that…receivers were able to get behind their secondary but russ under threw every one of it giving defenders a chance to make a play. earlier in the year he overthrew for the most part. there is no deep threat from Seattle currently.

            • C-Dog says:

              I disagree. Seattle was pretty on it with the deep pass against the Texans. Yesterday, RW was gittery as heck in the pocket given the way the right side played, and didn’t step up much in his deep drops to go down field. Then factor in a day with inclement weather and wind. Perhaps yesterday was not the day to take 13 shots deep down field to begin with.

          • vrtkolman says:

            That definitely could have been the case.

  32. pran says:

    Rob.. Penalties means poor coaching at first and then poor play calling. coaches need to maximize the talent they have at disposal and put them in a place to succeed not fail. If you think all this is good…then its indiscipline which says players dont care a shit about coaches. why is Ifedi getting a pass week after week? he must have learnt a thing or two from Sherman..

    I know Pete’s program is different but it honestly works well with youth and willing vets. Looks like the program is in need of Arians

  33. Michigan 12th says:

    It is far to early to say how this season is going to go, but it clearly looks like the Rams and Eagles are both better than the Hawks are right now. The rams have been playing lights out defense since the Hawks game, and the Eagles are a very complete football team even without their starting left tackle. We are still a dangerous team, but we are now just the team with a punchers chance. If we get hot we can beat any team, but we are not playing the kind of football right now that sustains long win streaks. We are getting lucky every time we win, and relying too much on late game heroics. This should not be a surprise we have always been this type of team, and now as our players get older and more comfortable, they just don’t have the same drive they used to.

    Every time we talk about our defense playing a good game, they should they are the top paid defense in the NFL. We should be one of the best defenses out there. We also should not be getting beat on a last minute touchdown with a minute and a half to go, against a Redskins team fielding a second rate Offensive line. That is inexcusable. There needs to be some accountability at the end of this year. I still believe the talent is there to win another Superbowl, but if we don’t right this ship fast we will not win another Superbowl with this talent. At the end of the season John Schnieder needs to take a very long and objective look at all the coordinators and think about bringing some in that can scheme better. We still have a lot of talent on defense, but to just keep lining up with the same looks ans say beat us, is not working any longer. We need to scheme to to the teams we are playing and take away their weaknesses better.
    Also I just have not seen how Sheldon Richardson has made this defense better. He is not getting the interior pressure we brought him here for, and has not shown me much. I am not a coach and don’t understand schemes and what his role is, but how can we justify paying him 12-15 million dollars a year for a new contract. He is just not worth it to me.
    We should extend Clark though, he is a beast and I would much rather keep him than Richardson if it came down to it.

    On offense Graham needs to go. I am not saying that he is not talented. He is very talented, but he is just not a good fit for this team. We did fine offensively with Zach Miller in there, we scored just as many points with him. Why pay all the dollars for Graham. They should not resign him. Keep Willson and draft another athlete out of college to play TE.
    Also why was Russ throwing jump balls to everyone except Richardson yesterday. He consistently caught all the contested catches against Houston, let him keep going for the contested catches. We should try to keep him.
    I don’t know whats wrong with Lockette this year, but he does not look like himself to me. I really hope he does not go the same way Rawls has after injury. I really like Lockette but he looks sluggish on both punt and kick returns, and hasn’t done much as a receiver this year either. Someone needs to have a talk with him, and see whats happening behind the scenes.
    Perhaps it’s time to let some of the core players go. It might be time for Chancelor to go, perhaps even Sherman. I know they are still solid players, but our secondary has not been good this year, and don’t try to tell me it’s all because of Griffen and Coleman. We might have to take a page out of New England’s book and let them go. We really need more pass rush, we are just not getting after the QB like we should be.

  34. Michigan 12th says:

    Sorry for the long post, I was venting a lot of frustration.

  35. nichansen01 says:

    Again, I wouldn’t be too hard on the defense. Special teams had a lot of opportunities to give the offense good field position but it seemed like there was a penalty on every single return. The offense had plenty of chances in the redzone where they just couldn’t get it done.

    • Ground_Hawk says:

      Seattle’s offense needs to improve in their Red Zone efficiency. Teamranksing.com has the Seahawks ranked at 19th, so far this year in Red Zone TD scoring; here’s the link https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct. Missed field goals aside, they have not been able to score TD’s frequently enough from this area. They have actually been near the bottom in RZ success for a few seasons now, even the year they won the Super Bowl (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/redzone-passing.htm).

      This aging Seahawks’ defense needs the offense to step up by scoring more TD’s, because it has been nearly 4 years since they won the title, and no one is getting any younger out there, so RW and crew (Blair Walsh included) need to put more points on the board.

  36. nichansen01 says:

    This team should honestly be 2-6, we barely scraped by the rams, niners, and texans. This game was similar to all of those, we just missed those field goals.

  37. nichansen01 says:

    Don’t be surprised if next week goes to the wire as well. Cards always play us tough, just like the rams. There is still a lot of talent on that arizona defense.

  38. nichansen01 says:

    If we cant avoid the penalties, and the missed field goals, this will be a long season. If we clean those up, no reason we can’t go 13-3.

  39. Michigan 12th says:

    Just another crazy thought. Does anyone think Carol could balance out Chip Kelley enough to make him a good fit at OC for our team. He has a run first approach to offense, and Russel Wilson seems to operate better in the no huddle fast paced offense. Maybe Kelley could maximize the spread offense for us, giving our O-line some help and at the same time utilizing Russel’s best talent of making plays out of nothing.

    Probably just delirious after the hard loss yesterday, but there may be something there. Could Kelley actually be the OC we need to help the O-line and at the same time get the most out of Wilson? Could Pete slow him down enough that we would be able to eat up the clock when we need to?

    • Colonel KurtZ says:

      Michigan 12th,

      I like that idea, but that’s not Pete’s philosophy about offense, which is to run the ball to milk the clock and keep the defense rested.

      Pete would be happy kicking five field goals and winning 15-13 but that is seriously in doubt now with a field goal kicker who has got the shanks.

    • C-Dog says:

      I think it’s pretty fair to Pete doesn’t want to build on offense around a hurry up but use it when needed. I think while Russell would excel in a Chip offense, that would put too much stress on the defense. The defense will always be Pete’s favorite son. Always. This game was probably three field goals made and a few less penalties away from Pete saying he was happy with the way the offense fought.

      • Michigan 12th says:

        Very good point.

        • Calgaryhawk says:

          I’m not too upset with Walsh as every player in the league has a bad game. I’m willing to wait and see if he bounces back. With the rain, not the best of conditions for a kicker even if that’s no excuse at this level.

  40. Smitty1547 says:

    Chip would never come here to be OC. Frankly to me it looks like we could run are #2 QB out there for the first half hand the ball off 3 straight times and punt. Then bring Wilson in for last 4 minutes to try to create some magic, then let him play in the second half. Are first halves are hard to watch, I always thought the smart play was to take the air out of the ball and make the game shorter when you are the inferior team. Yet we more times than not are the more talented (less disciplined team) on the field why does Pete always try to make the game shorter and keep an inferior team a play and busted coverage or missed tackle away from a win?

  41. Forrest says:

    As I’ve said in previous threads: I’m apathetically optimistic for the rest of the season. Jacksonville is the only straight up loss that I see. Seattle has a really bad (good?) habit of playing down to lesser teams and losing those games, and then playing up to teams that should be a challenge and winning. In my opinion the three teams that they’ll play up to are the Cowboys, Eagles, and Rams. Winning the West is the most important key at this point, so the Rams game is vital. If it doesn’t happen and they lose the rest of their games I honestly wouldn’t be that upset. This team needs some change on a fundamental level moving forward. Missing the playoffs would probably bring that change about. As is I see this team as a 2000’s Giants team: Mediocre during the season, dangerous in the playoffs. This Cardinals game should be fun! Go Hawks!!!

  42. Jim Q says:

    It’s always a blue Monday after a Seahawks loss.
    After every loss we hear: the same blame game and projections of gloom and doom. The OL, the RB’s, the receivers, the QB, the defense and the coordinators are all a steaming pile of poop. We won’t make the playoffs, the SB window closed, Fire everyone & start over, etc.

    After every win we hear: Everything is just fine and dandy. We’re Super Bowl bound, RW is elite and having an MVP type season, just need to make a few “refinements”, dynasty, we’re one of the best teams ever, etc.

    Football is very much a team game and to be successful a team must play together as best they can, -every- snap. When mistakes happen, and they do so with every team, it’s the coaches responsibility to properly motivate and correct those mistakes. All teams have the occasional “bad” game, it’s on the coaches, especially the head coach to fix the problems and get the team back on schedule. I think PC may need to have private conversations with the players most culpable of these mistakes and get them right. The old “praise in public, criticize (with great emphasis) in private” – could help correct at least some of the mental mistakes made by many different players lately.

    One major fix I can see after this game, they may want to bring in some kickers for tryouts, missing 3 in one game is crappy kicking and likely cost the Seahawks in this game of errors.
    I never have thought very highly of BW as a place kicker, now I know why. Go Hawks.

    • Volume12 says:

      That’s to be expected when fans dissect and over analyze every little detail, every position group needs to upgraded, and its always Befell, Cable, or someone else.

      Why is no one mentioning the fact Kris Richard went into man coverage that last drive? This is what most fans want. Different coaches and different schemes.

      Careful what ya wish for.

  43. You know those offense off side penalty at home are very frustrating to me.those throws cousins made on the last drive were pretty incredible. By the way have anybody notice how good the saints draft was Lattimore hit.ryamczy and Marcus Williams hit then Alvin kamera hit .the saints had a great draft

  44. Dingbatman says:

    I’ve read here that the Seahawks offense is run by committee with Cable in charge of the run plays and Bevell in charge of the passing game? I’m not sure how this works but it certainly looks to be the case on the field. It might explain the apparent lack of continuity on offense. How do they divide the plays? Does PC not have enough confidence in Bevell to give him total control?

  45. WALL UP says:

    It is a long journey and with it are certain challenges or learning experiences. That being said, this game has put a better taste in their mouths after this loss. Frankly, this is just might be just what they need is to gain ‘that edge’. I’m sure PC will use it as a teaching experience for the remainder of the season. Let’s see how they respond Thursday.

  46. WALL UP says:

    ‘This might be’, actually it was just what they needed.

  47. C-Dog says:

    Half way point fun facts.

    1. Seattle is on pace to go 10-6, and if the season ended today, this team would not make the playoffs. They would loose the wildcard battles to Carolina and Dallas.

    I picked this team to finish 11-5 when the schedule came out. Right now I am sticking to that.

    2. Quarterback play

    Russell Wilson is on pace to pass for 4610 yards, 34 TDs, and 12 INTs at a 62% completion rate. Not too shabby #s when you look at it, but he is also the team’s leading rusher at 271 yards.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that if a QB that on pace to run for 542 yards for the season is the team’s leading rusher, that isn’t a good thing. IMO, Seattle has to get better at the RB position, if not during the second half of the season, during the offseason.

    RW is also on pace to be sacked 36 times. Not great but numbers were looking worse a few games again.

    3. Receiver Play.

    Doug Baldwin is on pace for 98 receptions, 1076 yards, and 6 TDs.

    Paul Richardson is on pace for 50 receptions, 830 yards, 10 TDs.

    Jimmy Graham is on pace for 66 receptions, 656 yards, and 8 TDS.

    Tyler Lockett is on pace for 56 receptions, 710 yards, and 0 TDs.

    Luke Willson is on pace for 18 receptions, 214 yards, and 6 TDs.

    JD Mckissic is on pace for 18 receptions, 212 yards, and 2 TDs.

    Amara Darboh is on pace for 10 receptions, 110 yard, and 0 TDs.

    Tanner McEvoy is on pace for 4 receptions, 126 yards, 0 TDs.

    Nick Vannett is on pace for 10 receptions, 66 yards, and 0 TDs.

    Some impressive numbers from the top 4 receivers showing that this is definitely a passing team in 2017, and some quality numbers from McKissic and Willson, as well.

    Your second, third and fifth most productive receivers are all free agents after the season. Who do you prioritize? Probably not keeping all three.

    Do you try to keep PRich and JG, and hope to also figure out how to hang onto Sheldon? Do you let one go in the hope of also being able to retain Joekel? Do we feel good about the potential of Darboh, Vannett, and McEvoy?

    3. Running Game.

    We know RW is on pace to run for 542 yards on 92 carries, and 2 TDs, on a 5.9 average yards gained.

    Eddie Lacy is on pace for 256 yards on 96 carries, 2.7 yard average, 0 TDs

    Thomas Rawls is on pace for 196 yards on 78 carries, 2.5 average, 0 TDs

    JD McKissic is on pace for 132 yards on 18 carries, 4.1 average, 2 TDs

    CJ Prosise is on pace for 40 yards on 16 carries, 2.5 average, 0 TDs

    Tyler Lockett is on pace for 88 yards on 14 carries, 6.3 average, 0 TDs.

    Russell Wilson, JD McKissic, and Tyler Lockett have been the most dynamic runners. Seattle is on pace for 4 rushing TDs compared to 34 passing TDs. As promising as Chris Carson was (208 on 49 carries, 4.2 average), Seattle has a running back problem. I think it might be the biggest problem. Let’s see how things shake out in the second half because the first half was putrid.

    4. Sacks

    Michael Bennett is on pace for 13 sacks.

    Frank Clark is on pace for 9 sacks.

    Dwight Freeney is on pace for 6 sacks.

    Jarran Reed, Marcus Smith and Bobby Wagner are on pace for 3 sacks.

    Naziar Jones and Q Jefferson are on pace for 2 sacks.

    Sheldon Richardson is on pace for 0 sacks.

    The Seattle defense is on pace for 46 sacks in 2017. Not too shabby. I think Sheldon Richardson stirs the drink up front with numerous pressures, and looks like the NFL stat department robbed him a sack and is a priority resign, but if Seattle were to let him depart, do we feel pretty good about Jarran Reed and Naz Jones? How good has the new DL coach Clint Hurtt been? How does Malik McDowell factor in the future, is he a DE or DT? And why do people even entertain the idea the Mike B is slowing down?

    5. INTS

    Earl Thomas is on pace for 4 INTs.

    Richard is on pace for 4 INTs

    Bobby Wagner, Nazair Jones and Sheldon Richardson are on pace for 2 INTs. I don’t know about Bobby, but that’s some athletic playmaking magic coming from the DT spots.

    Seattle is on pace for 16 INTs compared to 12 TDs thrown. That’s a plus ratio.

    6. Offensive and Defensive team scoring production.

    Seattle’s offense is on pace to score 378 points, and the Seattle defense is on pace to give up 298.

    Seattle’s offensive scoring is eleventh best, and 4 teams that have scored more than Seattle have losing records.

    The only defenses that are giving up less points than Seattle are Jacksonville, Pittsburg, and Minnesota, and the Seattle defense is tied at 4th best with Buffalo.

    7. This is all stat scouting, of course, but the numbers kinda are what they are. Seattle still has a top level defense. It also has the pass game that is explosive, but it is sputtering to find it’s run game. If Seattle does find it’s run game more, it can make a pretty decent run. There were signs of that with Rawls and Lacy on Sunday where they have really struggled in the past. This is where the trade for Duane Brown could really end up being huge down the stretch.

    • Volume12 says:

      They’re also on pace for 164 penalties which would be 26 more than the record in 2011.

      • C-Dog says:

        Penalties are definitely a killer, but this is something that I think is correctable, and they have a full second half of the season to improve there.

    • Volume12 says:

      Yeah, they ran the ball pretty well yesterday. Rawls showed some flashes of who he used to be.

    • WALL UP says:

      There’s still room for growth with Naz running past plays and opening up lanes. That will come from experience. Pocic needs an off season of conditioning to gain the strength he needs to not be ran over in bull rushes. Shaq may need a full season to have his technique engrained in him to not get beat deep. Ifedi or Aboushi will sit if unnecessary penalties continue. I think Pete has had enough.

      This was a great teaching game for the whole team. Just what they needed.

    • Alex says:

      Nothing to worry about.

      The 2017 version of ‘Americas Game’ will go ‘the turning point for the 2017 Seahawks was an ugly loss to a below par Redskins team’…….believe!

  48. Volume12 says:

    PC is dangerously close to doing the exact same thing he did at USC. Its honestly not surprising one tiny bit. When it’s good it’s great. When it’s not good? Pete thinks it’ll always be A o.k.

    He sunk the ship at USC because of his desire to promote from within when it came to his coordinators and made awful coaching staff decisions.

    He’s still a great coach and has forgotten more about this game than most NFL coaches will ever know, but how much desire does he have left to ‘coach ’em up’ anymore?

    I can’t for the life of me figure out why he thought going to man/bump & run was a good decision on that last drive yesterday. Was it because ET was out and he thought that’d hamper their ability to play 3 deep? Had to be more than ‘our pass rush will get after it.’

    • vrtkolman says:

      Ugh, I hope that isn’t the case.

    • mishima says:

      Was just reading old articles about Carroll’s last few years at USC. Eerily similar: Monopolizes talent, builds a culture, promotes from within, loses control, fails to adapt/evolve to the competition, walks.

      Can you imagine a new coach taking over that locker room. Mutiny. I think you’d have to do a complete rebuild.

      • C-Dog says:

        Some contention with a few of those issues.

        I don’t think Pete has lost control of this team. I don’t think he has failed to adapt to the competition, his team just went down to LA a few weeks ago and beat the upstart Rams who some seem ready to give the division crown to half way through the season. And thus far, Carroll hasn’t walked from Seattle.

        I think Pete is probably going to coach in Seattle as long as he wants the job. Whoever Paul Allen brings in next, if you look at the successful hires of Holmgren and Carroll, that coach is probably going to have a fairly high profile, and if players don’t adapt, they will surely be shipped out. I don’t think Allen tries another hire from within like they did with Mora Jr. I think looks at track record, and pedigree, and pulls out the checkbook and asks “How much?”

    • WALL UP says:

      Pete was pissed, I’m sure you noticed. His staff has noticed as well. We’ll see how that translates on Thursday.

    • C-Dog says:

      I still have trust in Pete to make the necessary adjustments that will have them playing well down the stretch. He’s a really good football coach.

      There has been some promotion within, someone suggested nepotism, but I think the outside addition of Clint Hurtt was a really good move for the defense. They are getting markedly better production from the interior d linemen than what’s been there in a while, and one player is a rookie who was almost an afterthought at the end of the third round last spring.

      If we step back a bit from this loss, this isn’t something we’ve never seen before during his tenure in Seattle. Seattle played a big time, dare I say iconic, game against the Texans that ended in a dramatic win. Washington was coming into Seattle gimpy as all get out, and playing for their season. They had to win this game. IMO, I think they caught Seattle napping in the sunshine of last week’s win. They had a good game plan against RW, and Seattle was slow to adjust.

      When you have a head coach that has a mantra about winning in the 4th quarter paired with a quarterback who believes he can magically make things happen in the 4th, and by all accounts, does what is needed to win at in the last two minutes, only to have the defense inexplicably give up three quick plays to lose it,.. when you have that result that ends with an L, as I suggested above, it may not be a bad loss to have. I think history has shown them to bounce back from these games. If they don’t and they narrowly miss the playoffs for the first time in the RW era, then I think this discussion is something to have more of.

  49. mantis says:

    I am not on the fire bevell, cable, or richard bandwagon but i believe one of the problems is pete not changing with times. All of us have watched as pete and bevell have slow starts to games. It caught us sunday as well as the last 2 divisional playoff games. It is time to change to more aggressiveness in the beginning. If Russ and Bevell can call those great plays in the 4th qtr why can’t they do it in the 1st qtr.
    I know he wants to shorten the game and keep defence rested but a good coach has to adjust to different things. I believe if the hawks were up 14-0 the skins would have quit as a lot of mediocre teams would as well.

  50. neil says:

    No q uestion the Hawks should have won. I hope there is a realization the last minute heroics do not work all the time. Give Washington credit though, they executed the formula to defeat the Hawks well. It seems quite simple though not all can pull it off. Run your wide outs deep as decoys and throw underneath to your tight ends. On defense, pressure up the middle. Many here do not have much concern about the Arizona game, I do. Arizona needs this game desperately. Arizona has had more success against the Hawks recently than the Rams. Stanton has played well against the Hawks in the past. If the Hawks lose this one, 9@7 is a real possibility with the remaining schedule.

  51. Hawk Eye says:

    the season can really go either way at this point. Sometimes you get a couple of breaks and win games you should not and sometimes things just do not go your way. An inch either way in a few games is the difference between 11 wins and 9.

    I can’t help but think at this point the one player that can come in and solidify things is a healthy CJ Procise. Not saying it will happen and we all know the odds of CJ being healthy for the next 8 games.
    But he would really be the thing that is missing on offence. A runner who is a great pass catcher, similar to David Johnson. They have similar size and speed, pass catching skills. CJ was a good runner when healthy last year (stop snickering). The O-line is almost average at this point minus the penalties).

    maybe clutching at straws here, but a drowning man will grab for a straw…..

  52. Ground_Hawk says:

    This is from an earlier post of mine, about Seattle’s Red Zone struggles. It’s something to consider:

    “Seattle’s offense needs to improve in their Red Zone efficiency. Teamranksing.com has the Seahawks ranked at 19th, so far this year in Red Zone TD scoring; here’s the link https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct. Missed field goals aside, they have not been able to score TD’s frequently enough from this area. They have actually been near the bottom in RZ success for a few seasons now, even the year they won the Super Bowl (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/redzone-passing.htm).

    This aging Seahawks’ defense needs the offense to step up by scoring more TD’s, because it has been nearly 4 years since they won the title, and no one is getting any younger out there, so RW and crew (Blair Walsh included) need to put more points on the board.”

    • Hawk Eye says:

      yep
      no one is complaining about the d giving up the last TD if they scored TD’s on 2 of the 3 FG attempts instead.
      The defense can play better when they have a big lead, the other team gives up the run and just passes.

  53. GoHawks5151 says:

    Tough, unnecessary loss. It was a team loss in every way, though not getting points on the board will always hurt the most (jeeze Blair..). But we keep talking about parity in the NFL and the Eagles and Rams still have to play the rest of their schedule with bulls eyes on their backs. Guess we’ll see what happens with the burden of expectation.

    A few things:

    -Why are we in man coverage when they need to go 75yrds and score? Make them earn it at least. K Richard will have to answer that one. He still seems to not have a play calling feel for the moment sometimes.

    -A lot of people think Doug should have stopped on the 1 rather than score but it isn’t that simple. Besides the competitive bravado of scoring, there is no guarantee you score. Besides the fact that Walsh was having a shit day, there are also possible QB snap exchange issues on early downs or long snap – holder issues in a cold wet environment. Also its a game of 22+ team mates and the offense had no hesitation putting it on the D to win.

    -Man these guys… They do this every year, playing down to their competition. The only surprising thing is when they actually lose them. They ride the line a lot and lose weird ones more than we care to admit (Indy/AZ in 13, San Diego in 14, and too many stupid Rams games to count). WAS is actually OK and beat the Rams. At the end of the day we are a playoff team that has the guns to beat anyone, anywhere, any given day. We are not the 2013 team but we were never going to be. That team was the best team in the league from week 1 to the SB. No team is like that this year. This is one of those NFL years where the team that gets hot late will win it all i think. As a team that’s still finding its best game that could very well be Seattle.

  54. C-Dog says:

    A few things from the Pete Carroll afternoon presser.

    1. He clearly not happy with the play of Germaine Ifedi, and mentioned an ongoing issue there that hasn’t worked itself out, thus far. Said he hasn’t gotten a feel for Russ, and the false starts are do to trying to get a head start. Could be lighting a fire, but might also signal a change in the future.

    2. Felt that Russell abandoned the pocket early a bit here and there, but noted that there is give and take with that, and some positive plays were a result. Said blocking for Russ is presents an extra challenge for linemen. So for all those who want to beat the drum for Seattle to draft another quarterback, there you go.

    He credited solid play from the left side of the line with Brown and Pocic, but noted again the pressure given up on the right as to what effected Russell.

    3. Was generally happy with what was shown out of the run game, and Thomas Rawls going forward into the next game.

    4. Said the decision to go man coverage at the end was to put more pressure on Cousins, as they had been doing, but Griffin got beat over the top which is the one thing not to do.

    • C-Dog says:

      He also alluded to things that they saw on film regarding Russell and pressure that they will go over with him. Sounded like things Russell could have done.

    • Rob Staton says:

      He seemed particularly agitated with Griffin and Ifedi.

      • C-Dog says:

        Yeah, he did.

      • Michigan 12th says:

        I think Griffin can get a pass as a rookie, but he must do better in the future. I think he will learn from this, but Ifedi, that guy could be called for false start on every single play, except for the ones when the DE has a free play to the QB. Is he too slow to play tackle in the NFL? I say give Tobin a chance over there.

  55. Greg Haugsven says:

    I sea a lot of people saying we should have won and maybe they are right. You could argue that we probably should have lost the week before. Could be 2-0 is those games but could also be 0-2. 1-1 is probably fair.

  56. Greg Haugsven says:

    Seahawks offense ranked 4th in the league. The defense ranked 13th. Both in total yards.

    • Hawk Eye says:

      and tied for 5th in points allowed and 10th in points scored

      so the defense gives up more yards and gives up fewer pints than they should, and the offense gets more yards and does not score as much as they should

      ying and yang

  57. nichansen01 says:

    Scratch that… we are carrying 11 defensive linemen…

  58. nichansen01 says:

    Another interesting stat:we now have eight first round picks on the roster.

  59. nichansen01 says:

    This roster has too much talent to finish 10-6. Let’s turn this ship around.

  60. Greg Haugsven says:

    Tim Jernigan signs 4 year $48 million extension with the Eagles. That’s a good measuring stick for what Richardson could get.

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