Russell Wilson & Sean Payton, together at a Pro Bowl
Plan A
— Trade for Sean Payton
Your Plan A should always be overly ambitious.
Hear me out on this one.
Paul Allen revolutionised the Seahawks by appointing Mike Holmgren and Pete Carroll.
My Plan A would see Jody Allen taking inspiration from her brother and going for the hat-trick.
I would target a proven winner and one of the best coaches in the NFL. I would contact the New Orleans Saints and discuss a trade for their Head Coach.
There’s increasing chatter about his future amid rumours linking him with the Chicago Bears. Payton has talked to the Colts and Rams in recent years about a switch. Getting him out of New Orleans might not be as improbable as some people think.
It would be daring, it would shake up the franchise and give it a fresh direction with an established, respected leader at the helm.
— What it means for Russell Wilson
I have studied the 2022 draft class and the quarterbacks in college football extensively. A lot of the people calling for a complete refresh haven’t done this.
To me, saying you want a big change at quarterback or want to blow things up for stock in the 2022 draft without studying what that actually means is a bit like saying you’re going to sell your house without looking at the next property you intend to buy.
In a different scenario — with a rich draft class forthcoming and a talented crop of quarterbacks set to enter the league over the next couple of years, I’d probably have a different Plan A.
That isn’t the case though. This is a really troubling draft class at the top end. Players are going to be selected in the top-10 who would be late first round or second round picks in other years. We might not see a quarterback drafted until day two and for some players, even that might be a reach.
Don’t take my word for it though. Here’s a quote, courtesy of NFL.com, from an unnamed NFC GM:
“The problem is this: Good luck finding a better option at the position. It’s not likely coming through the draft this season, as far as immediate returns. This class reminds me of that 2013 year (when EJ Manuel was the only quarterback selected in the first round). Moving a franchise quarterback usually only works when you’re in a position to grab another can’t-miss prospect at the position in a deep draft, like when the Colts got Andrew Luck after Peyton Manning’s injury or the Packers got Aaron Rodgers in anticipation of replacing Brett Favre. You can’t even create a situation like the Chiefs had with Patrick Mahomes and Alex Smith (in 2017), because the talent just isn’t there in this class. It’s not even like it was in 2018, when you had unfinished products with rare physical skills like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson available.”
Wilson hasn’t played close to his best since returning from injury and I’m not ignorant of his frustrating end to the 2020 season either. The finger issue has had a significant effect on him, in my opinion, but he still needs to play better irrespective of that.
However, I still want to at least see if his career can be given a new lease of life with a different, offensive-minded Head Coach.
Payton has shown to be adaptable in the past — adjusting to different quarterbacks and despite what happened yesterday with Ian Book, he’s been able to win games with Teddy Bridgewater, Taysom Hill, Trevor Siemian and Jameis Winston.
I don’t think Payton and Wilson are a good fit because Wilson happens to be a shorter passer like Drew Brees. I appreciate they are different players. I think it’s a good fit because I believe Payton will create an offensive structure and game-plan tailored for Wilson.
I’d be prepared, as ownership in Seattle, to take a chance on this partnership working.
— Shift resources to the trenches
According to OverTheCap.com the Seahawks have a projected $43,426,337 to spend in the off-season.
I would create another $16.6m by cutting Bobby Wagner, with the intention of re-investing that money in the lines. I would also save another $3.4m by cutting Chris Carson.
That would leave you with a healthy $63m to spend in the off-season.
I would look at the draft to replace Wagner and Carson by targeting Georgia’s Channing Tindall and Florida’s Dameon Pierce, should both players be available in the middle rounds.
I would prioritise the offensive line in the veteran market. Terron Armstead, Brandon Scherff and Ryan Jensen are all free agents.
If possible, I would look into the possibility of trading back into the late first round if there was a chance to draft one of Trevor Penning, Bernhard Raimann or Abraham Lucas (who I think will rise during the process). Or, I’d be looking at Tyler Linderbaum (who I think is overrated by draft media).
I think there are quality defensive linemen who could also be worth moving up for — such as edge rusher Jermaine Johnson or Houston’s inside/out rusher Logan Hall.
If you start the 2022 season with reinforcements to the O-line, Sean Payton calling offensive plays and you give Russell Wilson a running game and targets like D.K. Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, Gerald Everett and Dee Eskridge — I think you can win a lot of football games.
I’m not for a second saying it’s a flawless plan. I know a lot of people will just dismiss this outright as unrealistic. Yet the more you think about it, the more plausible I think it is. And at the end of the day — your Plan A should be ambitious. You should aim high. Even if, ultimately, you can’t pull it off.
Plan B
— Attempt to emulate the Green Bay Packers
I’ve written in the past about the Packers providing a blueprint for a possible way forward. I still believe it holds some merit.
Plenty of people have poo-poo’d this idea but never seem to offer much of a rebuttal other than ‘Wilson isn’t Aaron Rodgers’.
I don’t think anyone has ever tried to argue that he is. Rodgers might be the most naturally gifted quarterback to ever play the game.
However, there are comparisons to be made in terms of statistics and the fact they both won Super Bowls and then hit a challenging stretch.
I think some people pretend to be open-minded about Wilson when in reality, they’re anything but. At times it feels like the idea that Wilson could return to his best form, or enjoy a purple patch over the next few years, is virtually dismissed.
There’s also a lot of recency bias about Rodgers. He missed nine games through injury in 2017. He struggled in 2018 and didn’t take to Matt LaFleur’s system in 2019 with arguments about how much control the quarterback should have pre-snap. There’s a reason why the Packers drafted a quarterback in the first round in 2020 and it goes well beyond Rodgers being ‘challenging’ to manage.
It’s easy to sit here today, with one MVP in the bag, three great Packers seasons in a row and two NFC Championship game appearances and act like Green Bay’s return to success can’t be achieved in Seattle.
I think it’s convenient for people to dismiss this suggestion as folly. It warrants consideration. Wilson doesn’t need to be 2020-21 Aaron Rodgers to justify the plan. If you shift resource to the trenches and create the environment Green Bay have done — an effective quarterback can win you a lot of games.
— Structural changes at the top
My Plan B involves moving on from Pete Carroll and John Schneider. You introduce a new GM — such as Ed Dodds with the Colts — with the intention of drafting better over the next two years while investing in the trenches and producing a much improved running game.
Brian Gutekunst hasn’t got everything right as Packers GM. The decision to draft Jordan Love, after all, almost created a mutiny.
However — he’s spent draft picks wisely on the offensive line. He’s revamped Green Bay’s secondary. He pumped resources into the pass rush. He’s delivered Rodgers a proper running game and invested in talented running backs.
The Seahawks should look at what they’ve done in Green Bay with their roster and try to learn from it.
Carroll, like Mike McCarthy in Green Bay, would be replaced by a progressive offensive-minded Head Coach. I believe coaches have a shelf-life. McCarthy reached his in Green Bay in 2018 and I think Carroll has reached his in Seattle.
Replacements could include Nathaniel Hackett, Kellen Moore, Doug Pederson or Eric Bienemy. Pair them with an experienced defensive coordinator. If the Broncos fire Vic Fangio, as many people expect, he would be an ideal candidate.
Some of the ideas included in Plan A such as creating cap space, investing in the trenches, replacing the likes of Wagner and Carson in the draft, would remain.
The skill position talent at receiver — and I think it’s worth retaining Gerald Everett — would provide a foundation for your passing game.
And if you’re willing to make difficult decisions on players such as Wagner, you will have the money to attack the key areas of your team (OL/DL).
Plan C
— The total rebuild
I’m not opposed to a complete restart for this franchise. I have written many articles discussing what a Wilson trade would look like, who could be interested, what the consequences are and I’ve written in detail about the quarterbacks in the draft.
While my preference might be to place some faith in a new start for the quarterback — I’m not against the alternatives.
If Wilson is to move on — I would seek clarity on that situation within a week of the season ending. I would then communicate to the rest of the league that if you’re interested in doing a deal, you need to send your best offer before the end of January.
That way, the Seahawks know whether they’re planning around the Senior Bowl and combine with high first round picks and no quarterback — or whether they’re continuing with Wilson after all. The situation can’t drag on into March and April.
If you’re going down this route — I think you need to change the decision makers in Seattle. The reset since 2018 has been a disaster. Wasted draft picks, squandered resources in free agency and a Jamal Adams trade that has been a horror-story.
Again, I think Ed Dodds with the Colts would be a good choice moving forward at GM. He knows the franchise well, having spent 10 years in Seattle. Chris Ballard, one of the best GM’s in the NFL, trusts him enough to be his right-hand-man. He has a reputation for being a top talent evaluator. That’s what the Seahawks need if they’re embarking on a huge rebuild with draft stock to spend.
If you’re restarting from ground zero I’m open-minded about the next Head Coach. I think it would need to be someone with experience as a Head Coach, with a clear vision on what the next era should look like on the field. They need to be able to set out a clear plan for both sides of the ball and put together a top-notch coaching staff.
Doug Pederson, Todd Bowles, Josh McDaniels and Dan Quinn could be options. Pederson and McDaniels both have had success developing young quarterbacks who start quickly. They have won Super Bowls — as a coach (Pederson) and a coordinator (McDaniels). Bowles has a history with Jamal Adams and could help salvage that trade. Quinn has enjoyed a renaissance in Dallas but I think he’s a bit of a lucky coach — benefitting from the Cowboys’ and Seahawks’ defensive talent as a coordinator and Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan’s working relationship as a Head Coach in 2016.
I would be trying to work a deal with the New York Giants for Wilson. The Mara’s run their franchise like the Jones’ run the Cowboys. They are the key decision makers and are under increasing pressure to make a splash. It appears they might promote their next GM from within, meaning ownership will likely dictate whether they trade for a veteran quarterback in the off-season.
If that trade can be completed, the priority would be to add a blue-chip player with your top pick in the draft. That would mean hoping LSU cornerback Derek Stingley Jr or Alabama offensive lineman Evan Neal are available. From there — you build through the trenches the rest of the way and try to just add talent, acknowledging it’s year one of what is likely a 2-3 year process.
I would try to add a quarterback in the draft every year until you have ‘your guy’. In this class I would consider Carson Strong, Kenny Pickett or Desmond Ridder — with UCLA’s Dorian Thompson-Robinson someone I think could provide real value on day three as a superb little project.
I am completely comfortable with Plan C. I would argue for it just as strongly as A & B, if they aren’t possible.
The extent of the change isn’t the issue for me — provided change actually happens.
The one thing that can’t occur is the status quo remaining.
Carroll and Schneider deserve to be recognised as Seahawks legends who built, together, one of the greatest rosters in NFL history. They delivered the first Championship in franchise history and gave us unforgettable moments along the way.
They thoroughly deserved the opportunity to rebuild this team in 2018 and try to recreate the magic.
It simply hasn’t worked, however. They’ve made too many bad decisions and the second iteration of their roster has turned into one of the worst in the league.
It’s time for a new direction.
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All 3 are exciting options. It will be refreshing to see a new regime or new era and begin to pick up on the trends as you did with PC and JS’s drafting tendencies. I remember when they first came and started dealing away some of my favourites (Josh Taylor, Darryl Tapp, etc.) initially gave me feelings of uncertainty but watching the roster and their vision start to unfold after was an awesome time to be a fan.
Plan C isn’t an exciting option but I understand why it may have to happen. If they go down this road, I’ll be mad if they don’t end up with at lease one extra first round pick in ’23 and ’24 and at least another pick somewhere in both future drafts. You either have a long-term vision or you do not.
If they get one of those early picks where you’re almost certain to get a Pro Bowl type of guy, then you stay put and take a great player – especially if you’re getting a guy who could be compared to Steve Hutchinson.
But once you’re after those elite picks and you have others in the 1st/2nd rounds… go ahead and trade – trade – trade down even if it means only getting future picks in return. I’d love to add multiple future 2nd round picks if possible. Such a great round to be in.
If you’re going to do it, do it right. Stock up on future high picks. If that means it negatively affects your 2022 season – so be it. You’re not winning the Super Bowl anyways. It also means the odds are better that you’re going to end up with a high 1st round pick in ’23 – that’s where you might be getting your Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, or whoever you want to be your QB of the future. A great team doesn’t mean much if you’ve got a bum QB. The Trent Dilfer thing is gambling your house in hopes of winning the PowerBall or losing the house.
This is why I want PC gone. Maximize your qb for as long as you can instead of frittering away resources like theres no tomorrow.
Sure pick high in the future for a qb. Denver, browns, and a few others can build rosters and still can’t find that piece. The amount of qb’s taken vs those that win the big game is staggering. And those that win the big one tend to have chances again. Even seattle did. Heck after that loss that had about six more years to rebuild anything that could.
That’s why I said I don’t like that option. I just said if it has to be that – that’s the blueprint I’d like to see them follow.
Pete has no long-term vision and we suffer every year because of it. He was once fresh produce and now he’s rotting and needs to be thrown away. What was once so good is now simply so bad.
Instead of looking to draft a replacement QB, what about trading for a guy like Tyler Huntley? It probably takes a 1st, but wouldn’t that be worth it. If they trade Wilson along with a couple others, they should get a few picks in return. Then you can start the rebuild with a young QB that has experience and shown he can win.
You want to trade a R1 for a backup QB who had one good game?
Everything is fine Rob.
Prez is our first round selection in 2022.
Nothing to see here!
Great article by the way.
He’s been so good we picked him in the first round twice! Sigh.
We must change,we simply must. Carroll is a franchise icon,always will be it’s still time to move on from him as well as Bobby. I love Booby Wagner but,it’s time.
Cowherd on the Seahawks today:
https://youtu.be/xWo_Lutx3Rg
Stick around to hear the Denver media quiz Vic Fangio. It’s worth hearing the kind of questions he gets.
Brass tacks:
Defend pete all fans can…..oline, meh, running game, who cares, russ regressing, on him….how is it that as a defensive coach his defense keeps trending down?
Fangio getting the tough questions and yet they can’t get him a qb. Forget a gunslinger or a freak athlete. Where is denver at with an above replacement level qb?
Meanwhile seattle departs with it’s oc after three of Wilson’s best years because they don’t play the way pete wants all without selecting the players that would make that offense run that way.
I don’t agree with Cowherd that you CANT have a defensive head coach in today’s NFL but important that they would appoint and empower a modern OC to develop a QB and fully control the offence.
But truth on PC. Not keeping up with the evolving game on offence or defence.
That’s the tricky thing. You need to figure out how to win a bunch of your regular season games which lends to offense…but you can’t abandon the defense when you get to the post season. 75% of the last 20 years superbowl champs are top 10 defenses. 50% overall are top 5.
That’s the problem with seattle last year. Russ played mortally at the end but overall high enough to drag the 22nd ranked defense to 12-4. He goes cold for whatever reason and seattle is just a house of cards behind him. This year it’s even worse with a worse defense and a crappier run game. Russ turns in a performamce that is solidly ‘meh,’…and this team is nothing.
I think that’s a very fair and reasonable article. I’m a little less certain on Russell, putting the finger/accuracy issues completely to the side as a temp issue, I’m still worried about his capabilities w his escapability as lessened as it appears to be. That said, it still feels a lot better to give it a go w him, a new scheme and better line – than to start from ground zero. Especially, as you’ve noted, when there is no ready solve for his replacement.
Hope the right people are listening.
Rob, have you taken a look at the crop of potential ‘23 QBs yet? If so, what are your initial impressions? Or a link if I missed an article covering the topic? Been traveling.
I’m comfortable with A, B or C above but I believe the team should start looking for their next franchise QB in every draft until they strike gold. Create a healthy Rodgers/Love type tension if you keep Wilson. Or start the churn now if you trade him. Either way, they should invest steady draft capital on QBs like (I hate to make the comparison) the way the Patriots have.
I’ve not studied the players closely but I’m not a big CJ Stroud guy at all. I’m not totally sold on Bryce Young either.
At the moment, that looks like your 2023 QB class. Players could emerge. But it looks like the well is very dry in college football.
Alabama DE Will Anderson will be the #1 pick next year if he stays healthy.
I think this sounds good on paper but how much capital do you expend per draft? The qb is the most important player but if you look at the Browns they spent a decade doing that still to no avail.
Are you spending a fifth round pick every year? Sure. People point to Jimmy g but that didn’t really do much of anything if they had or had not selected him. Love is another good point. His pick created a fracture and kind of made rodgers look like a baby frankly since Love hasn’t looked worth the bother.
Probably teams should be looking always. Certainly more than seattle has. I’m just not sure if teams are striking gold as much as we may think. Brady and wilson are the only two that come to mind in twenty years. Rodgers, mahomes, roethlisberger, both mannings, all were more or less considered good/great and nearly all played that way.
Brees was considered good but an injury concern. Kirk cousins is almost a gold pick based on value. Jackson, murray, allen, herbert all good. None striking gold. Just good players valued at draft time as good players.
I agree, investing in QB talent does sound good. Some execute it better than others. The Browns haven’t been good, but you can’t knock them for not trying (Seattle hasn’t).
There are different approaches. You can sling high picks and fail like the Browns. You can suck for Luck like the Colts. You can use day-two or three picks like the Patriots did during the Brady years. Or can pounce on falling talent like the Patriots did with Jones, the Chiefs did with Mahomes and GB did with Rodgers.
Personally, I prefer going where the value matches the talent. And keep swinging until you hit. Wash, rinse, and repeat as necessary.
What I can’t abide is doing nothing, which is exactly what Seattle has done. Like it or not, Wilson has peaked. His best days are very likely behind him. A new coach and OC could breath life back into him a la Rodgers (that’s the hope, right) but he ain’t getting younger.
100%. Seattle waltzing around with no back up plan has been terrible. Every year there should be, if you have a true starter, a game simulated competion via pre season or something to vie to be the best back up this team could have.
Rob knows better than me but i think it might be one qb drafted after Wilson in Alex mcgough….not good enough.
rob – what’s your POV on Penny? He’s not getting a giant FA deal elsewhere w his track record, so it’s not like we’d have to match that. Worth signing to a 2-yr deal, or just move on, after all his disappointing history here to date?
Move on
Too many injuries
I will be very interested to see what they do at RB. Neck injuries are scary and I can’t imagine the Hawks paying a bunch of money for a RB coming back from neck surgery. You’ve covered the missed RBs in the past drafts well and it hurts when there are so many talented players we passed on. Life goes on but damn… Someone like Javonte Williams has looked great so far in his rookie season.
I hope they stay away from a first round RB in the future unless there is one that fell to them or one that you just can’t pass on. The sweet spot for RBs seem to be in the 2nd/3rd round. Nonetheless, the trenches need to be prioritized. One of the biggest reason why we can’t win on 3rd downs on both sides of the ball and why our time of possession is near the bottom of the league. Big offseason and sort of exciting because something has to happen, you would figure.
Not Rob.
Near vet minimum with a good deal of incentives. I see a guy with a lot of help being very good but just as likely to get a decent offer and check (literally) himself right on out.
Florio & Simms on Carroll:
https://youtu.be/NQIq3piKLDg
I don’t understand Simms. He’s not sure firing Carroll is the right thing to do because…last year Seattle went 12-4 and won their division? No mention of the wild card blowout loss to a backup QB with a busted thumb though.
Or the fact that Seattle fell off a cliff from last year to this. Not a little bit of a decline. Not a moderate decline. They fell off a cliff, landing at the bottom when they gave up a 10 point lead to lose to the 3rd string QB led Chicago Bears at home. Or maybe not. They might yet lose to the lowly Detroit Lions at home this week.
I wish Florio would do a little Socratic method on Chris. Who’s in charge of the roster? Who’s in charge of the offensive scheme? Who is the architect of the team’s rebuild in 2017? How’d that go? Etc.
Sometimes you get lucky.
I have yet to see a detailed analysis that shows our 12-4 last year was truly a measure of a great team. More one that enjoyed some luck and winning a lot of close games. They should be lauded for that, but it still indicated decline that we have seen continue this year.
You already did the analysis.
They got lucky with some crap teams. Injured qb’s. And they scored almost 100 more points than anyone in the division. Thry also surrendered almost a hudred more points than anyone in the division.
Link. But i still found it.
Really fairly astute breakdown of this breakdown the team is in.
Thank the gods that SDB is ever the safe harbor for cogent and coherent Seahawks analysis and discussion.
I think consensus is building around the premise that, no matter what overall change occurs this offseason, one crucial element of that change must be Pete Carroll leaving. I still think Carroll has already made this decision, though you’ll not hear a single whisper of it until he says something himself after the season officially ends for Seattle. I have a hard time believing that someone who almost retired 4 years ago when Seattle had a much rosier outlook, who admitted that he’d have long since been gone but for Wilson, would have any desire to give it one more go under these circumstances. Pride be damned, he’s not delusional enough to think he can suddenly get it all right, especially when the potential cost to him would be his pride and reputation, and the decade of goodwill he’s earned with the Seahawks fan base. And if he is that delusional, someone in the organization knows it and they’re talking about it. But I doubt he’s that delusional, notwithstanding anything he says to the press between now and whenever whatever happens happens.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think there was any specific indication from the Seahawks or Paul Allen that they were going to fire Mora and replace him with Carroll until the day before it happened, which was only 5 days after the regular season ended. Let’s give Jody Allen a little credit and faith that she’s doing something behind the scenes. We should know in a few weeks if that’s the case.
On to the plans…
I prefer plan a to plan b. Payton brings an aura of sustained success and winning culture that players immediately respect and buy into in a way that I don’t think you could get from any other candidate. I also think it’s probably the most effective way to convince Wilson to stay in Seattle.
If plan a isn’t feasible for whatever reason, then a plan b with Pederson would be my second choice. I think Jeff Lurie is a lot like Jerry Jones behind the scenes, which can be hard for any HC. And I think Pederson unfairly got the bum’s rush from Philadelphia, which may be evidence of that. Though I do admire Lurie’s decisive action moving on from Pederson immediately after the season ended.
Pederson has won as many Super Bowls and has a better playoff winning percentage than Payton. Even though I think Payton is THE coach to get, I think Pederson would also be a strong choice. Pederson was backup QB to Favre and Marino, is an Andy Reid disciple, and showed he can win with multiple QBs.
Couple of side thoughts…
I think the GM hire is as important as the decision whom to hire as HC and whether or not to trade Wilson. I like the idea of Ed Dobbs a lot. The Colts have become a franchise to emulate in terms of roster construction. But there have to be other candidates. Some people think John Schneider deserves the opportunity to step out of Carroll’s shadow and make the final decisions on personnel. There’s merit to that argument. But I worry about the last 4 offseasons. Even if the myriad awful decisions were all on Pete Carroll, Schneider was there too, which given how truly bad some of those decisions were, means he assented to them by his silence. And I think owning any part of those decisions renders him unfit to lead the Seahawks.
Also, I’m not sold at all on Kellen Moore. When your offense is top 10 in the League for QB, OL, RB, and WR groups, top 5 for a couple, then you should do well as an OC. I’m of a mind with Rob that his rise is a bit too meteoric for me to hand him the HC chair just yet.
Pederson beat Bill Belichick in a Super Bowl with Nick Foles. Yes, please.
FWIW Pederson’s also from Bellingham
Pederson is from Ferndale. Same town as Jake Locker.
Peterson is interviewing with the Jags today and I think if Khan is smart, he will bring him in as their next coach. I would love for us to get Peterson but I think he will be in demand this year. The whole Lurie thing seems weird to me with Philly and it might just be a clash of personalities.
Still would love to have Payton.
I like the descending order of these options, with the complete teardown as final and necessary barring the viability of 1 & 2.
One would think of RW as the difference maker for Sean Payton, if Payton wants out of NO. Having an established, generational quarterback bests anything available now, or anytime soon in Chicago. I think RW’s primary issues this season in Seattle are the busted finger, which probably should have been a season-ending injury, Pete Carroll, Pete Carroll, and Pete Carroll. Look back at the first five games from last season when the offense was let loose. Russ was very good. Beyond the finger and the mounting frustration, there is no fundamental change – he’s still that guy and Payton could open a can of whoop ass with some of these guys.
The most frustrating part of this is Jody Allen. Who knows what she thinks or how she sees this franchise. It was disconcerting to hear Pete speak of how he and Jody are aligned in their views of the franchise and that there’s no need to start over. Her last public Seahawk-related act was extending Pete through 2025. That was before everything went to hell, but all of the noise about Pete’s time being up started with this blog and now echoes through the media. She may be all too willing to roll this group out for one more year, to once again enact change as they see necessary and that would be Chernobyl and almost necessitate option three in 2023.
Really good stuff, Rob. We’ll know in a couple of weeks.
Free Agent QB’s this offseason:
Tyrod Taylor
Teddy Bridgewater
Jameis Winston
Can Newton
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Marcus Mariotta
Big Ben
Jacoby Brissett
Andy Dalton
Ouch
Yuck. Maybe one guy can win you one game on that list with cam and his legs. Maybe.
They’re either too old, too injury prone, or they suck too bad. That’s a sample of what the 1990s looked like. Bum after bum, year after year. That was so much “fun”.
Which one do u think has the best odds of happening? Do u still believe Pete will retire after what he said Monday?
I’ll be watching Desmond Ridder closely on Friday. He’s elevated that Cincinnati program and has the ‘it’ factor. Regardless of what happens with Wilson, we need to start taking chances in the draft on QB’s.
I like ridder a good deal for this draft.
Bailey Zappe is my chance it guy…if Wilson stays since there’s no draft capital. I think Ridder is a second round pick…and if he shows out and this draft is as bad as it is I think he can push himself into round one.
If Wilson stays, for me, I can’t see parting with a second rounder for a qb with this team right now.
I think plans A and B are totally feasible and enticing. I’m definitely more hesitant of plan C than you are Rob but that’s because there’s so much unknown with a plan like that. I’m curious about your plan B; would you try to extend DK’s contract for next year? I imagine he’s going to want to get paid after this season despite having a bit of a down year.
Jacksonville making the rounds. Have requested interviews for
Hackett
Bowles
Leftwich
Quinn
Moore
So far according to Rapaport and Schefter
Seahawks should be getting on with this too
According to NFL rules, only teams that have fired their coach by today could have started the process. From Pete’s responses to M-S Dugar’s ?s, seems like Jody Allen defers to JSPC in football matters as the experts as she would do to a Dr.’s medical advice. Just let them do what they want – they know better than I do. That’s scary to think they would be unchecked for another year or years if she’s all in with them. But like you say, we haven’t heard from her as she never really says anything about the team in public so we don’t know what she thinks and may not for several weeks or months.
https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1475611006608936962/photo/1
Someone jump into the DeLorean and give us some answers.
These final few weeks are going to be an anxiety-induced nightmare of what ifs and who says what.
Keep up the good work, though, Rob. We need a little bit of sane prognostication to get through this.
Even Kam taking to Twitter to suggest change
“Me and Jody Allen need to have a discussion about the future of the seahawks. #JustSayin”
And he liked a tweet saying:
“Can’t overstate the leadership vacuum that Paul Allen’s death created down at VMAC. PC has carte blanche over the entire show. No accountability, unless Ms. Allen & @bertk decide to flex some executive muscle.”
Wow that should actually make the headlines
Rob what do you make of Kam’s comments? I feel like Pete lost the alpha’s on this team a long time ago and they haven’t been replaced. Where are the dogs that are pissed off for excellence?
I think Kam senses what a lot of us do
Looks like Pete is on the Plan D option – he and John remain with Jody being fully on board.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/12/28/22856454/pete-carroll-jody-allen-on-the-same-page-seattle-seahawks-will-not-rebuild
Of course he has to say this.
I wonder what his game plan is going to be if he thinks the foundation is there and everyone and everyone’s mom knows Wilson is out?
He’s much more general than that. He basically says she has been on board with everything, not specifically his plan going forward. He also states that JS talks to her more than he does. I don’t think this means anything at this point.
I agree. I think people are connecting “I have informed Jody of every move and we work together” and “I’m staying and there’s reason we need a full rebuild” too closely.
Pete really skated the line with his comments. I wish someone would have bluntly inquired something along the lines of ‘so you’re saying you’ve met with Jody, your job is safe, and she’s on board with your plan?’
I’ll be on 710 ESPN tomorrow with Jake & Stacy
Will let you know a time
Be sure to tune in
That’s awesome! I’ll watch for the time.
Awesome. They’re very good about letting you state your points without interruption. Looking forward to it.
Always enjoy those segments, as do Jake & Stacy.
Nice. I’m sure they’ll be interested in hearing about these three plans for the future. (and why it’s definitely time for a change)
Is it too early to bring Kam in as some kind of assistant DB coach and BAMF mentality advisor…?
Kam talking to prospects: so everything looks pretty good. But here on this play you dogged it a bit. Can you tell us why you weren’t trying to take the ball carriers soul?
I greatly enjoyed the scenarios and thank you for putting together such a forward thinking article.
Since Carroll’s talk with 710 yesterday I have been petrified. Petrified that he’s staying and that little will change, or worse, that more bad decisions will continue (“We’re excited to announce a multiyear extension with Penny as our main RB”). That we can fast forward 1, 2 or more seasons and we’ll still be hearing “I need to do better”, “we are nearly there, about to turn the corner” and “nah, no big changes are needed”.
To me the current leadership has lost all credibility, but they are in place until Allen says otherwise. My initial belief that Carroll would willingly step down took a big hit with his tone this week. It could be that he’s outright deluded? That then goes back to Allen, will she cut him loose if that’s the case? He could also be lying to our faces or he knows about as much as we do on what Allen will decide.
Losing to the Bears should make the need for extensive change glaringly obvious and yet it feels like Carroll and other talking heads are pushing back on the need for such changes this week more than before. Is that because it’s becoming so palpable that Schneider-Carroll-Wilson as a trio should not continue?
I’m sure that a victory over the Lions would be used as evidence that everything is just fine (more insults to our intelligence).
And if they lose to the Lions the apologists will say the Lions have been playing better late in the year so that really wasn’t such a bad loss. lol
The Lions are playing better now than at the beginning of the year and I believe they are doing it for their man Dan, playing with more passion. The Seahawks could very easily lose this game.
I have a more pessimistic view of what will happen. I think Seahawks ownership will indeed give Pete and John another year to “prove it” and justify it it by citing the injury to Russell this year. I do think Carroll and Schneider still do hold sway over this organization. I think it’s the wrong decision and will generate a lot of negative things but I just don’t see Pete stepping away (as he should) or the team pushing both Pete and John out this year. I think the plans Rob put forth are, as always, spot on but what makes total sense to this readership rarely comes to pass. The most recent example is seeing the Seahawks waste $60M in cap room and not have anything to show for it. This organization relies too heavily on risk management and prefer to spend on quantity over quality followed by panic trading. Pete and John need to go and if Pete doesn’t see that and thinks they just need small tweaks to get better, I fear we may be looking at a dark year ahead.
Carroll may decide that.
Schneider may decide that.
Allen may decide that (a stupid decision unless she’s freezing things as she preps the team for sale)
But I don’t think Wilson will decide that. I do not think that Wilson has another season in Seattle in him barring major coaching changes.
💯
Although I hope your pessimistic view is totally wrong, I also fear that this could happen! Will Pete really choose to walk away after such a disappointing season? Perhaps not! Will Jody Allen actually fire Pete and/or John? IMO, this seems doubtful! Unless she can convince Pete to retire and walk away a legend, he probably stays! And if Pete stays, John probably stays as well. No change, more of the same, so sad!!
Can the Seahawks afford plan A?
Gruden cost TB 2x first rounders, 2x 2nd rounders, and $8 million. I have to imagine Sean Payton would cost at least that. Can the Seahawks actually afford that? That level of compensation is leveraging the future fairly heavily.
Parcells cost a 1,2,3, and 4 plus cash in 1997.
Bellichick plus a 5 and 7 cost the pats a 1, 4, and 7 round picks. Year 2000.
Paytons last contract apparently didn’t have a buyout, uncertain on his recent extension, and he is under contract through 2026(?) for reportedly approaching 13$ mil/year. Seattle going to have to fork out multiple truckloads of cash, multiple high picks. Can the team afford that?
Payton wouldn’t cost that
That’s not the price that was being touted when he spoke to the Rams and Colts. There was talk of a day two pick.
The New Orleans GM has talked about being open-minded about a trade and he’s been there 15 years.
It wouldn’t cost that.
I’ve heard Payton could have been had for a 2nd round pick. I don’t remember the team but they offered a 3rd and the Saints wouldn’t do it.
Would we rather have Doug Pederson who won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles in just a handful of years as a head coach, or Sean Payton, who went to one Super Bowl in 15 years with one of the great QBs of all-time?
In addition, Pederson could simply be signed and the Seahawks wouldn’t have to trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him.
I think Payton not only delivers you a happy Russ, immediately players like Dee Eskridge and Colby Parkinson get a value boost.
💯
But do you have to trade for him?
If he got a similar role to PC isn’t he allowed to take it without compensation; as it would be a step up from just being HC.
Correct. It would have to be a promotion to leave without compensation.
I’m starting to think Pete and John get 1 more year. If they do, they better not be allowed to trade any draft picks in ’22 or ’23. Management needs to make that clear.
Not saying that’s what I want – I’m just saying that’s what I think will happen. I’d much rather have a real GM who actually likes to keep his 1st round picks and Doug Pederson, who won’t cost anything in terms of draft pick compensation.
I will struggle to do another year writing about the PCJS Seahawks. That to me feels like a real challenge.
I think we’d all struggle unless they could pull off a generational draft like 2012.
I am not looking forward to the article that will be written if we bring everyone back for another shot.
There might not be one.
I can’t keep writing the same things I have for the last two years
Change is needed and if this ownership group can’t see it, why should any of us bother to go above and beyond with this team?
I can live with being a passive fan, if that’s what this franchise wants to turn us all into
Browns draft blog?
Jags
Good call.
Jags draft blog. Khan moves the jags to london. Rob gets job with jags as scout. Writes one last post here dragging everyone that ever said “what do you know you’re just some guy from england….”
I don’t think Wilson will be down for that.
So, if Schneider and Carroll stay Wilson is out.
I think Pete Carroll, Sean Payton and Mike Tomlin are good coaches. I just don’t think they should spend another year where they are. Sometimes you can be somewhere too long.
Then there’s guys like Mike Zimmer who shouldn’t ever be a head coach for anyone. Then there’s the bum Urban Meyer guys of the world.
My list of coaches I’d like to see:
Pederson, Bowles, Payton. I’ve always thought Bowles was a good coach. I think him already having been fired once will make him totally ready for his next job. He’s one guy I have a lot of respect for. He’s the opposite of a guy like Eric Bieniemy who I think gets too much consideration because he has Patrick Mahomes.
I like Jon -Eric Sullivan from Green Bay as a potential gm candidate. I’d also like to be the team that gives McDaniels his 2nd head coaching shot.
Belichick started his great run by stepping into Carroll’s former job at around the same age McDaniels is now. The stars align lol
I’d be content giving McDaniels his second go around.
I think there’s something to be said for clearly talented coaches who make mistakes in a big job, then go away and have success again.
Carroll did it and look how that played out.
Technically, we were Carroll’s 3rd NFL head coaching job. He went 6-10 before getting canned by the Jets in 1994. Then he had that stint in New England before getting canned again.
But that makes a guy like McDaniels and Bowles attractive in my eyes. Would be happy with either of them as well. There’s definitely some talented coaches to be had. It’s not like we have to keep Carroll because nobody else can be any good.
For the record, if Pete gets canned and the Vikings hire him next year – I think he’d do a good job here/there.
I don’t get it. Please explain it to me like I’m 5…in 35 words or less…and post it on Twitter.
😂
😆
I’m all for plan A & B. Have a sinking feeling plan D with same front office and Coaching staff and another year of RW. A beating by Detroit Lions game could go along way towards dismantling that. I’m also for plan C and flipping RW picks for Deshaun Watson. Dump Wagner money and throw it at Metcalf.
Rob, I 100% hear you on the total lack of QB options in the 2022 draft. That said, I think if the team decides (or has their hand forced by Russ) then I actually don’t think they should target a huge draft haul in just one year, but instead try to get a number of first-round picks over the next few years from whichever team they trade with. Hopefully this would allow them to focus on reinforcing the offensive and defensive line in this upcoming draft while maybe signing a passable veteran like Teddy Bridgewater for the 2022 and 2023 seasons while looking for start finding their long term solution in 2023.
My first real year cheering for the Seahawks was 1992, so I’m well-acquainted with how bad things can be without Russ, but at the same time I just don’t see this core of players even reaching the NFC title game, even with better coaching and some more intelligent personnel moves.
The post-McCarthy Packers are a very, very optimistic comp for the Seahawks in the event of an overall of the front office/coaching staff. Rodgers had reached heights (including two previous MVP awards) that Russ hasn’t really touched, and the Packers were much better positioned to be aggressive in trades/free agency because they’d been so conservative prior to that offseason. The Seahawks more remind me of the later-era Steelers, who haven’t really come all that close to true contention as Roethlisberger ages and the team has prioritized trying to remain playoff-competitive instead of fully rebuilding. Though even that comp flatters Seattle a bit because the Steelers were better in 2019 when Roethlisberger got hurt in Week 2.
Hey Rob,
Get yourself back on Seattle radio and sell the idea of trading for Sean Payton.
You are well respected in this area and if you push the idea I bet Jody Allen (or someone close to her) starts to listen.
Inception… Lol
Ian Rapoport is reporting that John Madden has died.
It’s a shame the game that bears his name is now so lame.
All joking aside, RIP to an absolute legend.
Read his book “One Knee Equals Two Feet” many times. I still have the playbooks for the original Madden game for my Commodore 64.
Legend
RIP Big John. You were truly one of a kind.
When Kam speaks on the Hawks, people will probably listen.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KamChancellor/status/1475703002858065926
Rob, what are your thoughts on this?
https://twitter.com/TheMikeSalk/status/1475951511335096322
Russ is around the age where the likes of Steve McNair and Donovan McNabb lost their athleticism and ability to perform at a high level. Unfortunately, there may be something to this.
You’re more the historian than me. Mcnabb however was a sub 60% passer and mcnair was just a 60% passer.
The +5% msy seem like not much but it’s statistically huge for a QB.
Definitely the worst case scenario, but it certainly seems like one that could be unfolding this season.
I’m not really sure what sort of game plan Sean Payton is going to use to bring Wilson back to life. Wilson has never been able to consistently throw from a tight pocket. His athleticism appears to be waning. What if what we are seeing now is all he has left? QB’s who age well into their 30’s tend to be ones that aren’t overly reliant on their mobility to make plays.
Pete needs to move on, but let’s not pretend that Wilson’s poor play isn’t just as big of an issue. Bringing in Sean Payton isn’t going to propel this team to the Super Bowl. It’s only going to delay the inevitable, and set the team behind in the process.
I’m not going to argue that he may not be “done.”
I do wonder where the tight pocket has ever been? If you mean collapsing pocket with soft centers sure I’ve not seen that. If you mean clean pocket then go back to 2012 the last time the line was worth anything. Or Wisconsin when he had a great line and was one of the most accurate passers ever.
I readily concede that he takes too many of his own sacks. If it was all on him then the run game also wouldn’t suck as a pretty easy way to gauge the effectiveness of the oline.
Rob, very curious to hear your thoughts on what Sean Payton might do with our defensive personnel (Adams, Taylor, Brooks, Reed, etc.)? Thoughts?
Hire Greg Williams? Kidding, not kidding. He doesn’t seem tied to a style. He had Williams and Rob Ryan as 34 guys. Spagnuolo and currently Dennis Allen had more 4 down defenses. Will he care enough about Adams to fit a D around him and maximize his value? That has an effect in the rest of the roster too. It could force Taylor into a OLB type role that was hotly debated in the summer. Poona doesn’t really fit as NT or a 5 so where do you play him. 2 of the DCs I listed above were former HCs so maybe a former HC ( Fangio) gets roped in
Hopefully bring in a top defensive coordinator he defers to and get the best out of them
Yes Dodds! Yes Payton! Yes total rebuild! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
Rob-I think your ideas around Ed Dodds are very intriguing and a direction worth exploring. Something you and others have not mentioned (that I saw) is his connection with Jacob Eason who I think could make a reasonably successful bridge qb if Wilson is traded until a rookie or established FA is acquired.
Thoughts?
It’s hard to place any faith in Eason based on what little he has shown. And the Colts did cut him
I have always been curious as to the faith in Eason. Is it the Husky connection, or Lake Stevens?
He hasn’t broken through, after 2 years, to become anything more than a practice squad member. He wasn’t able to elevate his team in college. They were mediocre. He’s a big guy with a decent arm. Nothing shouts “NFL starting QB” to me, yet there are still Seahawk fans viewing him as a viable option.
I don’t see his history pointing to anything other than a guy who will float around the league, picking up practice squad checks, and the occasional elevation to the backups backup QB.
Who says no to this?
New York Giants get: Russell Wilson
Seahawks get: #4 and #8 overall picks in 2022 draft, Azeez Ojulari, and conditional 2023 second round picks that converts into a first rounder if the Giants make the playoffs
Can’t imagine the Giants give up both of their firsts for Wilson, unless a bidding war breaks out. It could happen, but I’d be a bit surprised. I think a lot depends on what Rodgers decides to do.
As Rob and many others have said in the past, Denver seems to be all in on getting Rodgers. They could even hire the Green Bay OC Hackett and make it even more intriguing. The Giants are trying to make a splash and they have other picks available to build the rest of their roster
Why can’t you imagine it? The rams just gave the lions two firsts over two years for all time average qb matt stafford.
The offseason debate over Russ is going to be fascinating. The Hawks will argue that the drop-off in production in 2021 was a function of his injury, and that more time to recover will return him to his former all-pro status.
The counter-argument: he’s lost his elite speed, so his ability to manufacture something out of nothing isn’t the same anymore, nor should you expect him to get it back.
What I keep coming back to is Rob’s point that the QBs available in this draft…there’s really no one out there worth a huge outlay to get. There are many QB-needy teams out there, all chasing Rodgers/Watson/Wilson. Seller’s market.
My guess, the Hawks will gamble on 2022 Russ being healthy, demand a king’s ransom, and say no to this hypothetical offer.
What offer would a team make in order to make a trade worth it? This is the time to trade him. Wait one year and if he continues on his current path he wouldn’t even fetch a day 2 pick. Plus a team would have to negotiate a new contract for him
I agree that this is the year to trade him. What we’re arguing about is the right compensation.
I think it takes five high picks over the next three years to pry him loose from the Hawks. Let’s say three 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders. I’d be willing to modify that if a team included someone who is a game-changer in the trenches, e.g. TJ Watt from Pitt, or maybe Ryan Ramczyk from the Saints. Some rookie with a good 1st season at a non-premium position does not interest me.
Nope for me. 2xR1, 1xR2 and a player? (I have no idea about the Giants, the guy’s stats are nice, but is he an LB or he plays as LB but can used as an EDGE/DE?)
2022 is a weak draft, so #8 might have the same value as a #20 in a strong draft. I’d be happier with 2022 #4, 2023 R1, 2024 R1, 2022 R2, 2023 conditional R2 (if they reach the PO) and Ojulari or another good player with a position of need. I need at least 3xR1 for Russ to even consider
Actually — in the 2022 draft, #8 might have the same value as #40 in a strong draft.
With all these comments about how Pete doesn’t sound like a guy who is leaving, should we also start asking why ownership has squashed this idea of Pete’s job being in jeopardy? Its been talked about for a month or so now.
Do teams need more drama, or wait until the end of the year? If he was so ‘secure’ or loved, why haven’t we heard from ownership that this is true? Why let this fester?
Pete really shuffled around that interview. And with Rob being a journalist, he is better than most in reading between the lines in these question and answer sessions (I won’t even call them pressers since the questions are so bad).
Pete would never come out and say “We need to start over and I am going to step away.” I think he essentially said: “I double dog dare Jody to fire me. If she does, I’m still collecting my money either way, but I’m not going to quit and do them a favor.”
I don’t think that’s what Pete said at all. He’s not some raging egomaniac arsehole who subtexts to ownership “I double dog dare to be fired” through the media.
He’s toeing the company line. Period. The Seahawks’ organizational wagons are circled until the regular season ends.
If PCJS stays, I won’t, I’d put the whole NFL on hold…my worst buy this year was the Gamepass, at least they’d save me some money.
As for any plans, I’m on board if it means tearing down the FO.
And while Rob states that this franchise can be flipped in a year with a good offseason, I doubt that with so many holes and uncertainties…
If we don’t accumulate a ton of resources for the offseason, I’d have these questions:
1, Apart from Lockett, who can give us a good passing attack? I don’t trust DK, I don’t want him to stay long term. He’s hotheaded, his hands are bad and he’s getting lost a lot (not sure that’s on him or Russ or OC). I didn’t see much from Eskridge yet. I have very little faith in Dissly and Parkinson. Everett can be amazing and awful too. I’d try to trade DK and get 2 WRs (one vet and one rookie maybe) and one TE
2, OL needs a massive overhaul. I’m not sold on RT although Curhan doesn’t make headlines which is good for an OT, he might work out. Not sure about Jackson. Pocic needs to go and Brown is close to retirement. We need at least a C and a future LT…maybe an OG too
3, RB group is a mess. We have a ton of mediocre RBs. Penny is not bad, but often injured. Collins can be really good but really mediocre too and sometimes downright bad. Carson is always injured and not a workhorse. Dallas didn’t show much. None of them are bad, but none of them are good. We need at least one RB who can be a workhorse, can run tough, can read holes, can get skinny, has good cuts and vision
4, With Wagner possibly gone, we’ll need an OLB (if Brooks is shifted to MLB). Not an exceptional one, but at least a good one
5, Our backend is a mess. I don’t think Reed is a good CB1. He’s an OK one, and a good CB2 or 3. Jones isn’t an awful CB, but not a CB1 and maybe not a good CB2 either. Brown played well, but only played a few snaps and games. I’d love to get 2 good CBs. Reed, Jones and Brown could fight for CB3 and if one of the starters gets injured, it wouldn’t hit us this bad, as Reed, Jones or Brown could step in a provide a good backup.
6, We need to retain Diggs, or find an FS at least as good as he is. Not sure about Adams…can’t get rid of him, but he’s a liability sometimes too. Maybe if we could use him as a specialist and more like an LB. I love(d) Neal, but he’s not a good cover safety (I miss McDougald), Neal is more like a box safety who can manage some zone, but more like a shallow zone and definitely not man especially for long routes
7, Our DL is not good. Ton of good backup level players. Woods is good, but he’s not a young dude, we need someone like him just maybe younger. Taylor is showing potential. Green is a decent rotation guy. Ford got totally lost this year. Robinson can flash but also be a liability. Dunlap is OK, who can flash in some games, but also getting old. I’d like this team to get a good, younger DE, and 2 DTs. Taylor and the new guy could start on the edges with Dunlap, Green and Robinson rotating in some. In the middle I’d start 2 new guys maybe one vet and one rookie with Woods and Ford playing some also
8, Not sure about Myers…kickers can have tough games or even periods. He is automatic sometimes, but can lose games. I think I’d keep him for now, but maybe need to change him in the future
This would mean 6-8 players on the defense (2-3 DTs, 1 DE, 1 FS/re-sign Diggs, 1-2 CB (preferably 2), 1 LB) and 6-7 players on offense (2 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB, 1 C, 1 LT and maybe 1 OG too).
That would be 14 starter level guys and didn’t even count our FAs we need to either retain or sign someone for their positions.
Sure, we don’t need every player on this list to be a potential SB contender, but I think at least 8-10 players needed to even have the chance to do that (1 DT, 1 DE, 1 CB, 1 LB, 1 TE, 1 RB, 1 C, 1 FS/Diggs).
Sure, we can make like 63m CAP, but minus draft, minus IR and that’s only 55m
Retain ERFA, RFA guys and some smaller FAs and that’s 45m
45m for 8 players is less than 6m/player API. When we’d need a DE around the 13-20m range. We’d need a DT of a 10-16m range caliber. A CB who plays like a 12-18m CB. A pretty good TE usually cost more than 6m too. A good LB makes around 10m or more and even a C and an RB is making either that or more.
We can draft to save money, but with only an R2 pick, I’m not sure we can get a great DE or DT or CB, so while we could save some, not the big bucks.
Might be doable with smart FA moves and amazing draft, but I think it’d be more like winning the lottery. I think it would take 2-3 years even with a good GM most likely to get a roster together that can compete for the SB win.
Obviously plan C would also take at least 2-3 years if not more, but maybe it could give the boost to the running game and defense to elevate those.
We will see…at least I hope this FO gets removed (not sure they’ll wanna go) and we can see what can happen 🙂
Same here. I’ve purchased Gamepass for the last 15 years to watch the Seahawks. This year I’ve maybe watched 5 games total.
If Pete isn’t gone next season. I won’t be renewing my subscription. It’s a waste of money.
Thanks for all the work writing this comment up! I was gearing up for writing something really similar… To me Plan C absolutely should have been implemented last year, or at least prepared for it likely occurring this year.
The roster is littered with long term holes- if we look ahead to “competing” in 2023, with hard reset in 2022, there aren’t a ton of players that are gonna be here. Like you say- the defense needs 6-8 players, and the offense isn’t in that much better shape.
Moving on from Russ should be a doable risk. 2-3 first round picks in year 1, one extra next year should be attainable with the number of teams needing QBs and draft capital for NYG, Philly, Jets etc.
I’ve felt Russ and Lockett would be a good package, but apparently he’d have a huge cap hit to trade… And I agree that DK should be traded, he won’t be a great fit on a rebuilding team or for a young QB, and he’s a valuable asset. Seems like a late first+ would be a decent return.
Moving on from Russ, DK, Bobby, Meyers, Gabe Jackson, and Hyder would get us up to ~90k in cap space.
The cap space could be used in FA to add 1 youngish bluechip FA, 1-2 more upside FAs, and then throw things at the wall. If we could swing taking on a bad contract or two for talent/picks that’d be great. Then roll over 20 million or so.
Get 4-6 picks in the first 3 rounds in 2021 and go BPA, get some future picks for 2023.
Cross your fingers and hope you fall into a QB.
And there’s the problem
I love real football. I don’t follow cricket. I’m barely aware of hockey. You’re the journalist…..is the QB the hardest position to find in sports?
Probably
Therein lies the rub indeed…
After deciding whether the GM and Coach can find the right players and lead the team. It comes down to this:
Making a bad team good around a great QB with limited resources.
Or
Making a bad team great and finding a good QB with lots of resources.
If one thinks Russ is no longer great, and someone else does, you should make a trade. If Russ is still great, and wants to stay through another year reset then sure keep him.
Oline: there are upgrades available for free agency in order to save draft capital.
Dline: there are good and maybe interesting/great Dline players in this odd draft available in the second round.
CB and LB: I’m not sure what the answer there is. Cut Bobby. Move brooks back to middle. Draft Darian Beavers, Cincinatti. He’s not the best player in the draft. He’s not the most interesting. He is however a former lanky WR, then Safety, then transfer who bulked out to be a big strong LB. I think he’s the faster second coming of KJ wright. And i think he could be had in the same area. I get it’s not sexy or interesting but I am way over watching teams convert third and mefium long to soft zones on this defense and having no one out there to snuff it out.
Plan A- Sean Payton isn’t leaving New Orleans for Seattle. So it’s not “ambitious”, it’s unrealistic. Not to mention that emulating the Packers means not winning a Super Bowl for another 10 years despite having Aaron Rodgers and being in the weakest NFC Division? The Seahawks model is better than that model. Move on from Bobby? He’s a Pro Bowl linebacker, and those don’t grow on trees, we have drafted linebackers in every draft and only found one Bobby Wagner. Is he in his prime? No. But if you cut him he won’t be replaced and you’ll pretend you didn’t say that we should cut him. He will be first team all-pro next year, here or somewhere else.
I’m NOT a huge Pete Carroll fan, but I can’t argue with his system. My beef with Pete is that he is too loyal to bad coaches. He kept Bevell around too long, and he is the only Head Coach that would allow Ken Norton to be a DC. Now he has Waldron and Waldron is like anchor when you are swimming in the deep ocean. He sucks. Literally the worst offensive coordinator in the league.
Saying “invest in the trenches” is obvious, that’s not a plan, that’s a requirement regardless of the direction they take. Brown was a stop gap and he’s been average at best, which is ok. But they need to find the long term answer. The glaring hole on the OLine is at Center. Pocic just wasn’t ever going to be the guy. Schneider has shown that he sucks at picking Free Agents. Harvin, Graham, Adams, Everett…all perfectly useless. What he gave up for Adams was criminal.
Plan A- Keep Russ, Bobby, and Pete for one more year. Move on from Waldron(ASAP), Norton, and Schneider. Do NOT let a primadonna QB make organizational decisions…ever. Get a vanilla offensive coordinator, not one of these gimmick offenses. With Lockett, Metcalf, Dissley, and maybe Everett, we don’t need gadgetry. The offense will be top 10 in scoring, and be ball control with almost any offensive coordinator besides Waldron. Spend the money on the O Line, and draft O Line. We are stuck with Adams, but keeping Diggs is a priority. Wagner will hold it together for one more year. Pete’s defense is brilliant with a competent DC. Norton has never been competent. Look at his record. If they could get Quinn back with a promise of taking the job after Pete leaves next year, that is Plan A. Fuck Sean Payton. Defense wins Championships.
I see you’re coming in hot. The tone of your first sentence gives you away as an angry person who hasn’t listened to any of the arguments.
He held talks with the Colts and Rams. He’s being linked with the Bears.
You are in no position to say what Payton would or wouldn’t do.
I’m pretty sure you might’ve said the same about Holmgren and Carroll before they were appointed. If you make a job attractive enough, people listen.
Here’s their record over the last three years:
13-3 — NFC Championship game
13-3 — NFC Championship game
12-3 — pole position to earn the #1 seed
Would I take being as competitive as that? Yes, absolutely.
And you would too.
So please, at least argue honestly.
Based on what? Wasted draft picks, bad trades and blown resources, leading to a 5-10 record?
One playoff win in five years?
Yeah, great model.
They literally spent a first round pick on a linebacker two years ago. A player who played middle linebacker in college.
I’ve explained why Wagner’s play has deteriorated and there is no justification for paying him $20m a year.
Linebacker is not a premium position in the league and the Seahawks would be best served re-investing that $20m in other areas.
If you can’t embrace that, then you’re kidding yourself.
I’m sure if you try a bit harder you’ll find a way.
Yes, it literally is a plan.
There is no chance of this happening. You know that as well as I do. And you know why.
What a compelling argument.
I mean this with the greatest respect — in this community, we don’t have handle our business this way. There are plenty of other communities that allow this level of debate. Not at SDB.
A gentle, but final, warning. I don’t have a lot of patience when it comes to comments like this.
Brooks has just 14 less tackles than Bobby, yet has 5 more TFL.
When your two starting LBs account for 326 tackles, there is a serious problem with the front four talent, scheme and overall coaching philosophy. Moving on from Bobby allows for a lot of flexibility in roster construction.
Why do people not recognize the writing on the wall with this situation?
And what is with the hatred for Sean Payton?
Get a vanilla offensive coordinator? We already have one. His name is Pete Carroll.
FG’s is the site you were looking for, mate.
You said investing in the trenches is obvious and not a plan.
Really?
Well it’s definitely not obvious to PC & JS, just look where our resources are going. LB & Safety.
Bad O-line & a D-line that hasn’t provided any pressure for several years.
I think any scenario with PC still here is a bad one.
Preferably we move on from both PC & JS.
No idea why you think it’s impossible to get Payton, when it was reported in the past the Saints entertained offers for him.
Why would you think bringing in Payton won’t improve our defense?
As I said our defense has been bad with a horrible passrush for years.
He would bring in a new defensive coordinator, & be honest this defense can’t get much worse.
We need change & if you read what Rob wrote, & I mean really read it; you would see all 3 options are realistic.
I personally like plan A, but would love to see it implemented with Dodds as Gm.
How much draft capital would it cost to make a trade for a coach like Sean Payton? I know trades for coaches have happened (e.g. Gruden) but I still wonder how much we‘d have to give up and how likely such a scenario is, especially with our limited capital.
I think the asking price in the past has been a day two pick
Rob, if they go plan C and make a trade with NY. Would you take Daniel Jones as part of the trade? I see him as the stop gap and the Giants wouldn’t need him when taking RW on the roster. He has had moments of good play.
Only if he’s an extra. I don’t want him instead of extra draft stock
Following the Hawks on AM radio (710 and 950), reading comments on various sites, I am dismayed by the frequency and level of disdain for Wilson’s talents and accomplishments. Years and years of brilliant play seem to be forgotten – including 40 (!) TD passes last year, and a decent start to this year, pre-injury. Wilson’s SEVERE injury to an ESSENTIAL finger is given lip – service, but then forgotten, as his woeful lack of accuracy is bemoaned. It’s almost as though some people are talking of BLAKE BORTLES, not Wilson. Only occasional mention that Wilson has labored for years with a bad OL, and Stone Age play-calling and scheming. He is NOT a broken-down Unitas or Namath that needs to be shuffled off. One off-season of rest should do wonders, one would suppose, for the finger/inaccuracy issue. If Wilson leaves and Carroll stays wisdom will come too late for these fans. I just listened to Salk, so I’m blowing off a little steam, here. Thankfully SDB stands tall as a beacon of sanity and civil discussion … which certainly can include the pro and cons of trading Russell Wilson – who resembles Bortles not in the least.
The latest podcast was a little bit better.
Salk was railing on Russell – and let’s be fair, he’s not playing up to his standard – but he literally ‘yeah the defense stinks, yeah there’s personnel problems, but Russell isn’t saving the Seahawks’ butts like he always has’.
Brock calmly took him through the relationship and the structure of the team. That Jody has to talk to Russ and ask him point blank if he trusts Pete still. And then point blank ask Pete if he thinks he can do better than Russ as our QB next year. And move forward. (He also mildly busted Salk for cutting him off in previous casts)
Salk paused, took a breath and basically said ‘yeah you’re right. But I think Russell’s play has been so bad I don’t want to hear it.’ and then trailed off into Russ wants to be a media blogger superstar and and and…
All I’m saying is at least Brock got a chance to articulate where he is and it’s far, far, more nuanced than what Salk is peddling.
Missed Brock’s good take, thanks for filling me in, cha.
Blow off steam. I’m with you. The constant need to backwards engineer how Wilson sucks w/o clear break downs of all-22 to validate claims and a total lack vía Salk particularly to breadown how the defense gets worse and worse over five years is maddening.
I’m a fan of the hawks. And i’m a fan if Wilson. Not the goofy guy. But the player. If he’s really done then someone please do a Curtis Allen breakdown and show me, not tell me that it is a FACT that Wilson refuses ro do x,y, and z in regards to reads, routes, etc. Bad year? I’ll buy it. I’ll completely agree. But he’s completely washed after a 40 td season and a near 70% completion rate? How about the year before with 35 tds and a 5-to-1 touchdown to interceptions….this is the guy holding the team back?
Good points. Even this year’s TD/Int ratio of 18/5 is solid. It’s like some fans have a death wish – at least it seems that way to me. No one except Brady plays to 45 … but at 33/34, Russ should have maybe 3-5 more great years left, and a perhaps a couple of good ones after that.
11am for the Jake & Stacy segment
Looking forward to it.
Ditto
Nice! I’ll be tuning in.
Speak some truth for the masses…
And plug your blog…
And I’m an occasional radio listener, but would listen religiously if you were working for them. Tell them it’s past time they hired you for a segment or at least a contracted regular contributor. Stacy is sharp, but outside of Huard they’ve lacked consistent entertaining while also critical analysis. Something you offer in spades, Rob.
Thank you
Great stuff Rob.
Don’t hold back. Lol.
It’s interesting, and possiblity telling that Pete is not on this ESPN hot seat tracker. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in Jody’s (or whoever is pulling the strings) on where they stand with the coaching & personel decisions going forward.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32917485/nfl-head-coach-firings-hirings-openings-latest-news-rumors-interview-candidates-jaguars-raiders-jobs
*fly on the wall in Jody’s *office* (as opposed to “in Jody” as my phone typo states above). Don’t want to give the wrong impression! 😅
In a mock draft on cbssports.com, someone named Chris Trapasso has the Seahawks trading RW to the Giants for just one first round pick, the #5, and using that pick to select Malik Willis, “the most naturally talented quarterback in this class.”
On top of the fact that I don’t want Malik Willis under any circumstances, wouldn’t he be available in Round 4? Maybe 5?
It’s strange Rob does this for free and others get paid to make whacky statements. Willis sucks. He’s not a good qb. And he’s I guess a good runner playing for liberty which I assume is a school.
That’s one of those blake bortles circle the drain style picks that takes your team right off the map of contention in the first round.
I think it’s a southern baptist school – either that or the insurance company with the emu. I’d rather draft the emu. Get him the ball on a counter trey and Boom! (RIP Madden)
Actual lol. Draft the emu…nice
Yeah funny as hell Gross
If they can’t get both of the Giants 2022 1sts you don’t make the trade.
I would be asking for their top 3 picks in 2022, their 2023 1st & 2nd round picks.
Will they get it, who knows.
I do think their top 3 2021 picks, a 2023 2nd & a player is realistic.
I would start there + Barkley and Jones.
I don’t think they would trade Jones tbh. He’d be a good back up on a cheap deal still. Plus as good as Barkley is do we really want another back who can’t stay healthy?
Typically, when a team moves on from a QB, they don’t keep him around. Plus, if you want RW, your backup QB is, at best, an afterthought. I don’t think they would hesitate. in a trade for Russ
And, yes, I would absolutely want Barkley. He’s the more difficult get, I think.
JS was on record last year saying any trade starts with 3 1sts minimum. I can’t imagine that’s changed. Unless RW absolutely wrecks the Hawks by rigidly demanding it regardless while weakening Seahawks position in trade talks (similar to what Griffey did to Mariners).
In the end, we don’t HAVE to trade RW, and certainly not for less than perceived market value.
And yes, we are all too damn lucky for this world to have birthed a guy named Rob Staton who can 1. Write and think critically, 2. Loves sports, and 3. Has a passion writing about the Seahawks and NFL draft.
There is a possibility that Pete Carroll has already decided to move on at the end of the season and made his feelings known to ownership. Even though I feel he has a very little respect for the opinions of fans and local media, he’s no doubt aware of the negative things being said about him. It has to bother him at least on some level. And despite what he says publicly about the state of the team, he has to known privately that the team overall is a mess. These things coupled with his age and possibly just being tired of dealing with all the responsibilities of running a NFL team could be motivating factors pushing him toward retirement.
On the other hand he is currently saying all the things you want to hear from a coach who intends to stick around and fix things. He’s still energetic and seems enthusiastic, and may not be ready to hang it up. If he decides to stay I just can’t see any strong motivation for ownership to fire him. But its anyones guess as to what will happen at seasons end and we’ll just have to wait and see.
Plan A – This is a very interesting plan and one I’m sure most Seahawks fans could easily get behind. I mean who wouldn’t want to see the Sean Payton coaching the Seahawks! The coaching staff he would bring in and the offense he would design around Russell Wilson, truely a dream scenario. But there are a few things to consider for this to work. First off this requires that Pete Carroll is gone and we just don’t know how thats going to play out yet. Secondly this would be a very bold and decisive move by ownership and thus far they haven’t given any indication they are capable of any type of decision on this level. Lastly, whats not mentioned in the arcticle is the cost of making this happen in what would be a sellers market. The Seahawks don’t have a first round draft pick to offer and what would they have to give up to entice the Saints to trade Sean Payton? Could a team so desperately in need of an influx of talent even consider giving up the draft capital necessary to make this happen? This plan is very overly ambitious and probably only happens in fantasy football. But there’s nothing wrong with dreaming big!
Plan B – I would say without hesitation that most teams in the NFL would like to emulate what the Green Bay Packers have done the past few years. Draft well, invest in the trenches, produce a good running game, build a good secondary, have a good head coach and coordinators. And of course it really helps having an Aron Rodgers at quarterback! As outlined in the arcticle, I believe this is a very good path for the Seahawks to follow. It does require that not only Pete is gone, but John as well. And again, we just don’t know how things are going to play out on that. On the down side, there are just so many moving parts in a plan like this making it difficult to achieve, but still worthy of emulation.
Plan C – If it involves trading Russell Wilson I just don’t see this plan working at all. You just don’t do a plan like this unless you get the draft capital to draft his replacement and his replacement is available in the draft. Per the article, there are no great quarterback options in college football for the next two years. And anybody thinking you go get Aron Rodgers or Deshaun Watson good luck with that thought. I certainly do not want to suffer through what will most definitely be a several year search for a franchise quarterback. Been down that road before, very ugly! And again it calls for both Pete and John to be gone. This plan literally has you starting from scratch and hoping for the best. Think Lions, Jets and Jaguars and think to yourself, “I will enjoy watching this team every Sunday”, and just keep repeating it over and over…. If you start believing it, than this is the plan for you!
Unfortunately if JS is still here C is the most likely outcome. I’m with you on no more PC or JS.
Sounds like Rob’s appearance pushed a bit back as the news of Kyle Seager retiring just hit.
Now at 1pm
Crap
FYI Pete Carroll’s Wed press conf at 12:30.
If you’re busy Cha I pre-transcribed it for you:
– still battling
– just got to clean up some things
– bobby’s looking great
– who is Alton Robinson
– left some plays on the table
– maybe the punts are too long? Got to look at the tape
– if we had scored more than the Bears we probably could have won
– AP is looking great
Most of it was about John Madden.
But at one point Pete said he guessed that Detroit purposely jumped offside on a 4th and 1 play to set up a fake punt on 4th and 6. “I don’t know for sure that’s what they did, but if they did that would be really cool.”
For some reason I can never get the live broadcast. Hopefully someone will post a link to the conversation when it becomes available.
I’ll post the embed audio on the blog when it’s available (which I think is an hour after the show finishes)
Thanks Rob, looking forward to hearing it.
http://mynorthwest.com/streams/stream_kiroam.php?ref=reg
Maybe try this one online next time Tom.
That’s the one I keep trying..and it continues to fail. I’m using Chrome. Are you using a different browser? Look forward to hearing the interview.
Literally laughing out loud. Your pre-transcription nicely summarizes why I stopped listening to the senile ramblings of Pete-speak years ago!
Hat tip to the legend that was John Madden. And Pete literally saying we’re still battling lsst week after being bounced from the playoffs.
Listened live. Rob was direct and firm in his feelings as usual. He got little in the way of push back tho Jake did bring up the cost of sending PCJS down the road considering they recently signed extensions. It’s a valid point and he was doing his job as well. There was no pushback on the Sean Payton to Seattle suggestion cuz it’s well reasoned out.
My only wish Rob is that when you were listing off some of the players Seattle could’ve had in the draft that you would’ve also mentioned Creed Humphrey. But you killed it man.
I wish I’d answered that question better and just said:
They should’ve drafted for the lines and they didn’t.
Clearly, Stacy’s not buying it.
But I think Jake is eating it up with a spoon – even though his responses were diplomatically neutral.
I’m betting it gets back to Russel.
Good job, captain.
.
I didn’t get that impression from Stacey but I don’t listen to them regularly. Why do you feel that way?
Hi Mike,
In a convo with Jake a few minutes later Stacy was pretty adamant that big changes were unlikely. And she seems in line with that.
Overall, I feel Stacy and Salk are the main PC apologists and want to protect the 710 ESPN relationship with the current Seahawks setup. I see Jake as wanting the change, is in line with Russel and because of his upbringing doesn’t want to be seen as the one rocking the boat particularly. It’s part of his upbringing and style of personal responsibility.
Likewise, I see Brock knowing that there needs to be big changes and retaining Russel is key. again, I don’t think he wants to be seen as outwardly rocking the boat with station hierarchy.
.
OK thanks man. I shut it off after the interview with Rob and as I mentioned, I rarely listen to the station as I am in the Portland market (boring!). Thanks for explaining. If that’s who she is, shame on her. One Salk is one too many.
After Rob’s spot they started talking extensively for several minutes about their favorite sitcoms on TV.
What the heck does that have to do with football, much less sports, are they serious? They are a waste of time mostly, probably why I don’t listen to them much. I also think of them as shills form the organization and they provide only very basic football information and are there for purposes of entertainment more than substance.
I must admit I likely would have taken Meyers over Humphries at the time of the draft.
Still I did understand the reasoning behind Eskridge.
Eskridge was the player I was hoping get our pick, didn’t expect Meyers or Humphries to be there.
I have far more issues with previous drafts than our last one.
I actually had 0 problems with last years draft; other than we should never have been missing our 1st rounder.
That Adams trade is tough to get by, & I’ve been trying hard.
To think of not just the wasted picks, but wasted cap space.
Hoping a new DC can make it feel less painful.
Loved how your last several pieces all seem to seamlessly work together.
In the past few seasons I’ve just been prepared to be disappointed by what PC & JS do.
Not exactly fun as a Seahawks fan since the early 70’s.
The only hope I have is Jody moving on from both PC & JS.
At this point I think if she did that; the Seahawks would get my attention again; only difference is I would have some hope.
I think that’s why I enjoy SDB so much. No BS, just well written, thought out pieces.
Nice Job on Jake & Stacey
I think you got your points across. I must admit it must have been difficult with the part about PC & JS staying because of their contracts.
If Jody doesn’t think they’re doing their job; which I don’t see how she could think otherwise, she needs to move on regardless of the money.
On the contracts I would say PC’s was signed when they’re 6-1 and JS’s when they’re 12-5.
So a lot has changed. And money is no object for JA.
Does the JS contract, being –several years longer– than PC’s, indicate that there was, at least at that time, a succession plan? If so, maybe JS stays around? If not, the 100% rebuild of everything would seem to be viable.
Bottom line, “old” PC has got to go to avoid MANY more years like this last one. -IMO- RW’s retention or trade should be completely left up to the new coach to decide. Let him make his own bed & live with the results.
More likely full rebuild if JS is still here.
If both he & PC go we might have a shot at keeping RW.
Possibly so
But if Schneider stays, Wilson will go IMO
I’ll also say this.
Me pitching for Sean Payton in Seattle is an idea. An ideal. One plan of three listed.
It’s not a hot take or a prediction.
I think it would be great and I would go after it.
That’s it.
You’ve certainly made that clear here and I felt like you did on air with them today too.
Oh, and a splendid idea it is imo.
Thank goodness for Brock, BTW
Allow me to blow the minds of those who think of me as a Russ apologist. If he played like this, with or without injury, and every year since the rebuild PC was able to retain a top 10 defense and a top 10 running game, heck make it a majority of the years, and the Seahawks were literally not winning because Russ….
And not,
….since Russ doesn’t fix the warts it’s his fault, but…
Russ was the fault(s) I personally would be calling for him to go and not the other way around.
The first year of the reset seattle had a top 10 defense. This year may end bottom five overall. In that time russ got better while the team got worse until what week 13 of last year? So PC’s bread and butter has been getting worse for four straight seasons including the Adams trade. which might be a franchise killer. And Russ has been bumming around for 16 games.
Who is more likely to turn it around first?
Of note is PC said today talking about the poor stretch of games in the 2nd half last year “we didn’t adjust well to what other teams were doing”
No kidding.
You went into Buffalo with a pass defense putting up historically bad numbers and expected them to run the ball.
Playing Quinton Dunbar on one good knee and letting Linden Stephens, Jason Taylor, Ryan Neal and Damarious Randall sit on the bench.
And then getting told the next morning by O’Niell that we’re sorry he had to endure such a harsh loss, and he deserves his contract extension because he’s such an inspiration to us all.
This realization only took one year.
Count me among the inspired.
Totally understood…
There was only so much time to develop your themes. You were wise to pick one and spend your effort there.
I thought Stacy saying that ‘maybe we’ll get you on again during the draft period’ was a shove off.
I think what people would like to see is you coming back ‘as things develop’.
.
Honestly this is what Rob excels at. This is one of the best sites/resources to go for the draft or for analysis. Rob single-handedly helped me understand how/what/why of the Seahawks process. Honestly, The Athletic or someone other website can use what Rob brings to the table. The analysis and honestly is gold. Often Rob brings someone new and fresh that no one talks about. Cheers bro! Hope 2022 brings exciting things to you!
Thank you, I really appreciate that
Well Rob I heard you talk about the Seahawks on 710b KIRO Radio today at 1:00 pm here in Seattle area. I got to say your a great commentator. It’s absolutely all about the British accent but its more. When you came out with this website we became better at understanding the game including the draft and what we need and what we want. Shawn Peyton as head coach. I absolutely love that Idea but I think we keep J S as the general manager. You give Peyton the same power as the last coach and believe Snider will work with him.
Lets face it this is a time for Offenses to thrive with the rules we have.
Thank you
Awesome analysis as always, of course the response of “this team sucks trade everyone” is checkmate
Any chance we see Bobby Wagner get traded instead of cutting him?
16 millions on the last year of contract for a 8 times All-Pro, will a younger team that have lots of cap room be interested? The team may also have a chance to get a mid-late round compensation if he left after 1 year. Will any team buy it?
I think it’s very, very doubtful
If we keep Russell Wilson then I hope we can sign the following three players. LT Terron Armstead, OC Ryan Jensen, and CB J.C. Jackson. Jackson has 21 interceptions in the last three years. Cutting Wagner would give us more than enough money to sign these three players and still be able to re-sign Everett and Diggs. Then target a RB and DE in the first few rounds.