Schneider extension & possible draft targets for the Seahawks

January 12th, 2021 | Written by Rob Staton

The Seahawks needed to be pro-active here — and they have been.

On Sunday I wrote the following:

If the Seahawks want Schneider to stay, why haven’t they committed to him in the form of a big new contract?

Have they tried to?

Is it about money? Is it about control?

Does Schneider genuinely crave the kind of overall power that he would get somewhere else?

The Seahawks can nip this in the bud pretty quickly. They can make him an offer he can’t refuse, just as they seemingly did with Carroll.

Eliminating this as a talking point was vitally important. We couldn’t have weeks of wondering what the future holds.

This is decisive action.

On that note, let’s look at some of the players Schneider might target in the draft.

We now know the Seahawks’ first pick in the 2021 draft will be #56 overall.

Pete Carroll says the priority is to improve the running game. He specifically called for improvement at left guard. Therefore, I’m going to start my list of possible targets with a running back and two offensive linemen.

Players who might be available

Javonte Williams (RB, North Carolina)

He fits Seattle’s size preference (5-10, 220lbs) and more importantly, he completely fits their ‘type’ of runner.

Williams is a yards-after-contact machine — breaking tackles, extending runs and finishing. PFF gave him a 95.9 rushing grade — the highest of the 2020 season and the best they’ve ever recorded at the running back position.

He ranked #1 in the NCAA for broken tackle rate (46.5%).

Every now and again you watch a player and you can just tell straight away — that’s a Seahawk. Williams fits that bill.

With Chris Carson and Carlos Hyde both out of contract, running back could easily be a target position in the draft. Williams stands out head-and-shoulders above all eligible runners in terms of Seahawks fit. He’s currently being projected anywhere between rounds 2-4. If he’s there at #56, he could be the pick.

See for yourself…

Aaron Banks (G, Notre Dame)

Carroll said they need to improve at left guard. Aaron Banks would be a fantastic choice to deliver that improvement.

He’s a monster of a blocker — listed at 6-5 and 330lbs. That’s the kind of size Seattle has coveted on the left side since Mike Solari’s arrival.

For the last two seasons Banks has been playing at a pro-level, dominating up front with a combination of brute force and surprising athleticism. He even filled in at left tackle against Florida State when Liam Eichenberg picked up an injury. The FSU game was a major highlight — on two occasions he slammed defenders to the ground. He constantly plays with that edge.

I’ve been projecting him as a top-50 pick but I felt the same way about Damien Lewis and he lasted into round three. If the Seahawks were to secure Banks, they’d have two stud guards locked up for the next several years.

Landon Dickerson (C, Alabama)

It’ll be interesting to see what the Seahawks do with Ethan Pocic. His PFF grade for the season was actually quite poor — a 59.8 overall with a 57.8 pass blocking grade and a 59.4 run blocking grade.

Seattle’s other four starting offensive linemen all faired much better and received high grades.

Pocic only turns 26 in August so has time on his side. He could be retained, presumably, without breaking the bank. The Seahawks might also seek to add some young competition to the position. Or they could just go out and sign a veteran such as Alex Mack.

Landon Dickerson enjoyed a fantastic 2020 season. He didn’t give up a single sack and he only conceded one quarterback pressure. According to PFF, he was the most valuable O-liner in college football per ‘wins above average’.

He’s also very athletic — scoring a 100.05 at SPARQ. He was the #64 overall High School recruit in 2016 per ESPN.

If he was fully healthy he likely would be pushing to go in the top-40. However, injuries are an issue.

He recently suffered a knee injury in the SEC Championship game. In 2016 he tore his ACL. In 2017 he had surgery on his right ankle. In 2018 he missed the whole season due to complications over a high ankle sprain. He then transferred from Florida State to Alabama and suffered this knee injury at the end of the year.

Given Seattle’s history with injuries recently — especially with Darrell Taylor — Seahawks fans might be wary of making an investment here.

That said — if they do the medical checks (thoroughly, this time) and the injuries are deemed to be more unfortunate than anything else, he warrants some consideration. He’s a heart-and-soul blocker who helps set a tone up front. Dickerson has the potential be a 10-year starter if he can stay healthy.

Elijah Moore (WR, Ole Miss)

One other area Carroll talked about improving was third downs. It was a major issue at times this season. Adding a dynamic slot receiver would help here.

I’ve only recently studied Moore. Lane Kiffin thinks he’s destined for round one. That’s certainly possible if he runs well. This is a loaded receiver class though and there’s a chance one or two players could last deep into the second frame.

He’s only listed at 5-9 and 185lbs but unlike Tutu Atwell (see below) his frame looks fairly solid and durable. As you’d expect he’s extremely dynamic working his routes, getting downfield and he dominated several games in 2020.

Even Alabama couldn’t get a handle on him — Moore recorded 11 catches for 143 yards. He reached +200 yards on three occasions — against Florida, South Carolina and Vanderbilt. He finished the season with 86 catches for 1193 yards and eight touchdowns at a pace of 149.1 YPG.

He plays with a degree of toughness for his size and he’s clever with his routes, knowing how to sell plays to get open. He’s direct and shifty with superb change of direction skills. He can high-point, win contested grabs and just about do anything.

He’s going to need to learn to handle press at the next level but ultimately he’s a player you want operating in the slot where he can attack seems, find mismatches and run across formations.

The Seahawks badly need a third receiver who really challenges opponents.

Tutu Atwell (WR, Louisville)

Like Moore, he’s smaller at 5-9 and 190lbs. Louisville has been creative with Atwell — using him on sweeps, as a deep threat and a mismatch weapon.

Reportedly he can run a 4.26 forty and a 3.9 short shuttle. That’s the kind of speed necessary in the modern NFL. You need a receiver who can sprint like this — and the Seahawks could surely use someone with this kind of raw speed to complement D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett.

He’s also tough and explosive — capable of benching twice his body weight (which is insane) and squatting triple his body weight.

It used to be said that receivers need time to adjust and adapt to the NFL. This is clearly not the case any more. Teams are drafting impact receivers early every year.

The most dynamic offensive schemes in the league utilise multiple weapons. The Seahawks need more and Atwell could provide it.

Kellen Mond (QB, Mississippi State)

This is a mischievous suggestion but hear me out.

A year ago two teams — Green Bay and Philadelphia — spent high picks on quarterbacks, despite retaining existing (and highly paid) starters.

The Packers selected Jordan Love in round one and the Eagles took Jalen Hurts in round two.

The Love pick motivated Aaron Rodgers to a MVP season. The Packers could easily return to the Super Bowl this year. If he needed a rocket, he got one. And he has delivered.

The Eagles shocked the NFL by drafting Jalen Hurts with the #53 pick. Nobody really knew what to make of it, given the franchise was tied to Carson Wentz and his big contract.

If it was used to test Wentz and see if he could respond, it didn’t work. Reports have suggested he feels he lost confidence after the pick. His form collapsed and eventually he was benched. Prior to Doug Pederson’s departure it felt inevitable he would be traded.

I’m not sure the Seahawks want to start getting involved in any game-playing like this. However, Russell Wilson has just endured the worst stretch of his career. If that continues in 2021, we might be having a much greater conversation about his future.

Drafting a young backup with cheap club control might light a similar rocket under Wilson. I think that’s more likely than a Wentz-esque crisis of confidence. It might also piss Wilson off though — setting the table for a divorce.

It could also provide the Seahawks with something they don’t currently have. For starters — any kind of alternative for the long term. Secondly — a cheap, club-controlled backup who might actually be capable of filling in and winning you a game.

You only make this kind of move if you really believe in the player who is available.

I think Texas A&M’s Kellen Mond has something about him. He has a tremendous arm. He’s been a lot more consistent this season. You see evidence of occasional hesitation, an extra unnecessary hitch or a bit of indecision. I think you can live with that when you also see him arrow accurate passes into tight windows, deliver on-target throws under pressure and launch the ball downfield like he does, right into the hands of a receiver.

I’ve just got a feeling that there might be a bit of Dak Prescott about him. A rough diamond in college football who is somewhat overlooked in the draft and plays well beyond his draft placing. Regardless of any motivational reasons relating to Wilson — he’s the kind of player I think is well worth investing in as a backup and possible trade-chip down the line, if not a future starter.

He will be attending the Senior Bowl.

I think we’re at a stage now where looking at players like this isn’t a waste of time any more. Seattle’s total lack of draft resource might make this unlikely in 2021 — but it depends what else they’re able to get done pre-draft.

Mond isn’t the only quarterback option either. Stanford’s Davis Mills, North Dakota State’s Trey Lance and Alabama’s Mac Jones have all shown potential beyond the ‘big three’ at the position. Mills in particular has the recruiting pedigree and talent to be very interesting. Jones was highly impressive in yesterday’s National Championship game.

Ambry Thomas (CB, Michigan)

The Seahawks have avoided drafting cornerbacks early and I don’t think that will change this year. I suspect we’ll see one of two things happen — either Shaquill Griffin will be re-signed or Richard Sherman will return. Or both, depending on cost.

That said, if there’s one cornerback that I think has a chance to really shine at the next level from this class without necessarily being a top-20 pick it’s Ambry Thomas.

He’s adept at press coverage and despite not having massive size (6-0, 182lbs) he’s certainly capable of playing a really competitive brand of football, mixing it up with receivers to reroute and challenge at the snap.

The Seahawks have always liked corners who can tackle and he does that very well. He gets involved and isn’t afraid to get stuck in. He produced three interceptions in 13 games in 2019 and has special teams value as a returner — scoring a 99-yard touchdown against Notre Dame in 2018.

Athletically he has major upside. At SPARQ he ran a 4.43 and a sensational 3.90 three cone. His vertical jump of 36 inches is also impressive.

I’m not sure what his arm length will be and we know the Seahawks have really focused on that (although maybe D.J. Reed has led to a change of heart).

Thomas has the competitive nature, the talent and the athleticism to be really good at the next level. He’s attending the Senior Bowl and that will be a great opportunity to impress.

A whole collection of defensive tackles

At the end of December I wrote a piece discussing several potential defensive tackle options for round two. It’s a good looking class in terms of the range Seattle is drafting in and this could be a group they tap into.

To read the piece click here.

It’s worth noting that, surprisingly, Georgia’s monstrous nose tackle Jordan Davis has opted not to declare.

Players I am higher on but are being projected in-range by others

I’ve been projecting Dayo Odeyingo (DE, Vanderbilt) in the top-15 throughout the college football season. For me he’s an absolute terror off the edge and has the size (6-6, 270lbs) to work inside and create pressure. I haven’t seen anyone rating him as highly as I have and if he lasts into round two, he’s definitely one to keep an eye on.

Walker Little (T, Stanford) missed most of the 2019 season through injury and then opted not to play in 2020. However, you only have to watch his Rivals recruiting tape to see he’s a natural left tackle with great size, length and agility. There just aren’t many 6-7, 309lbs left tackles who run 4.40 short shuttles — therefore I think he’ll eventually find a home in round one. If he falls (out of sight out of mind) then it would be an absolute gift.

The same goes for Alex Leatherwood (T, Alabama). His stock is all over the place. Some think he’s a top-20 talent. Others, like Todd McShay, have him in round three. He does have some athletic limitations but let’s be right — he’s just a total BAMF. He’s not going to be peak Tyron Smith but he might be the closest thing to Duane Brown to enter the league in a long time. If he’s there in round two, go get him.

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361 Responses to “Schneider extension & possible draft targets for the Seahawks”

  1. I am just watching Williams highlights. If i would need to place a bet who will John take with 2nd round pick it would be him. Perfect Seahawks RB.

    • James Kupihea says:

      I agree, looks like the right fit. Like a less jiggly Rawls. Are there any RBs from a small school who don’t really like contact, and don’t have a high ceiling? We’re #%(#@ if there are…like moths to flame…

      • James Kupihea says:

        I wanted to add that Williams is able to shift between power and quickness at an elite level. He can stop, throw a stiff arm, and reaccelerate to his UPPER gear. He can run full speed, downgear, make a move, find balance, and reaccelerate over very short distances. The kid has some skills.

    • BobbyK says:

      They’ll take a faster RB who likes McDonalds.

  2. Denver Hawker says:

    I hope part of Schneider’s deal allows him to take the wheel in the draft.

    I’ve come around to this preferred approach re: O-line, running game:

    – Sign and legit veteran LG, doesn’t need to be Scherff, but invest some coin here. Serves a couple purposes- 1) a trusted vet next to Duane, 2) would help Pocic develop and learn more of the trade.
    – Let Carson walk
    – R2 goes to RB

    I think we need more veteran experience on the line, not youth, to improve the offense. Just my take.

    • Elmer says:

      How about this as an alternative? Extend Carson, draft a RB like Williams to pair with him, let Hyde go, see what you can get for Penny.

      Hope what they do is targeted and decisive. Move quickly but don’t hurry.

    • BobbyK says:

      I would also prefer a legit veteran LG and draft a rookie RB in R2. They need a stable of capable backs. Not a stable of bodies in the backfield. Big difference. But it won’t matter nearly as much if they can’t take care of LG.

  3. SeaTown says:

    Honestly not sure how I feel about the JS extension. Part of me was kind of hoping he would walk. I am a little surprised he decided to stay and try and clean up the mess he’s created. Do I trust he can draft us back to prosperity? Nope. Do I trust his trading ability? Nope. Just so much loss of faith in both JS and PC. I feel we are going to be in store for a five year period of sliding down the mountain.

  4. Rokas says:

    I am not anti RB like these self called analysts on twitter, but I think i might start crying if they select a RB with our first pick, when we have 4 picks with very little possibilities to accumulate more.
    If big Chris gets too expensive and we fail to keep him, than sure, go ahead draft a RB. Otherwise, Left guard? Hell yeah.

    • James Kupihea says:

      Chris Carson’s average games played per season and propensity to get bottled up by good run defenses makes me feel like he’s not worth keeping. We need a reliable RB to flow the offense through. We’re playing Pete Ball for five more years unless Pete says otherwise. I pray they don’t hamstring themselves with a procession of injured ball carriers, again, again, again, again.

      • Rokas says:

        He gets bottled if our Oline gives him nothing, and sadly that’s not infrequent the case.
        Durability is an issue, so this might prevent a longer term deal, but if we can bring him for about 8 mil per year, for let’s say 2 years, I am all aboard.

        • Jordie says:

          With due respect to Carson, who i really like, given the injury history i would say the deal should be heavily incentivised. But 8mil a year is too rich for me… i would say 3mil plus 100k per game day plus 400k for 1000yards… that gives him the chance to get 5mil a year, but only if he plays well every game.
          I like the idea of Mond, but surely that is a 6th rounder give the lack of draft capital.
          I also think that at the moment the Seahawks look to trade down to sat pick 12 in R3, hopefully getting a 4th, 5th or 6th…

          • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

            Yes, pay Carson around $6-8 million for a good year with incentives. How about a grand for every yard after contact?

        • James Kupihea says:

          That’s far too high for a guy that couldn’t give us 100 yards in a game this season, and hasn’t given us a complete season in his career. I have to agree with Jordie on an incentivised contract. However, I think another team will give him an offer he can’t refuse, and be happy to get 12 games of hard running for a few touchdowns. Carson is attractive to a lot of systems.

          If he’s not going to get full time duty in this system anymore (evidenced by his pitch count this season), that’s fine. But again not for 4 mil a year.

          • Thisthat says:

            100 yards in a game is tough when you didn’t give him the rock in any game more than 17 times. And that was only once, I think twice he got 16 carries and all the rest 15 and under. I liked that he fixed the fumble issue of last year with only one and that his 37 receptions shows is he concentrated on a few of those drops a bit more, he can be a weapon in the passing game too. At 26 years old, I hope they find a way to keep him at a number that works for both sides. He figures to be a tough guy to replace even tho many think rb is plug in play but I watched this team struggle pre and post Marshawn until CC showed up.

            • Ben says:

              They didn’t give him that many carries because Carson has proved that he’s injury prone, along with Penny.

              • Thisthat says:

                Is he though? 2018 played 14 games, 2019 played 15 games. Sure in 2017 he broke his leg and only played 4 but not sure that’s injury prone? This year they gave him 140+ less carries than last year in 3 less games. So not sure had ge played the whole year he was going to 33 carries a game to match that total from last year.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  He had injuries every year including college. They had to baby him through the end of this season to protect against injuries.

                  • Thisthat says:

                    Missing 3 games outta 32 Isnt injury prone and can’t be argued as such. Agreed they babied him this year to avoid last years disaster of all 3 guys going out in week 16 with no one available for playoffs

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    You are not going to win an argument about Carson’s health.

                    Whether you want to admit it or not — he cannot be trusted to stay healthy. That’s a fact.

                  • Thisthat says:

                    Also looking around the league, not many guys don’t get hurt playing RB in the NFL : Saquon, Zeek, Kamara, Dalvin Cook, Mccaffery, Adrian Peterson, Gurley, Mostert etc.. Hard to say CC is an exception when most the leagues backs have injury issues.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Those backs are not hurt every year, including college, and need to be babied throughout the season to be ‘saved’ for a playoff run.

      • Elmer says:

        I’m with you. Tired of injured FA’s and draft choices. Supposedly gambles to get more value for the money, sometimes it works out, often you outsmart yourself.

      • Adog says:

        To me it’s difficult to make any evaluations on offensive skill players on the Seahawks 2020 team due to the erratic mind numbing play of Russel Wilson. Not gonna rehash the cook and cool of his performance and the play calling. We saw the defense improve over the course of the year…and the offense fall apart. The last guy I would let walk is Carson. His play aligned with the rest of the offense… started great ended poorly. If there was a power struggle between Carrol and Wilson…kinda seems there was…as noted by the media commentary… Wilson lost. And certainly played like a sore loser… horrible pick sixes… misreads…and gunning down his tight ends like Tiger Woods. The biggest problem to get fixed in off season is Russel Wilson’s head.

        • James Kupihea says:

          I do love Chris Carson as a player. If you include his 170ish yards and 3 TDs through the air through the first 8 weeks his production is…still 2nd string filling in for injured starter-level this season. The below suggests things weren’t ever great on the ground for Carson this season.

          wk 1 6-21 0TD
          wk 2 17-72 0TD
          wk 3 14-64 0TD
          wk 4 16-80 2TD
          wk 5 8-52 1TD
          wk 6 5-34 0TD
          wk 7 13-65 0TD
          wk 8-11 injured
          wk 12 12-76 1TD
          wk 13 15-63 0TD
          wk 14 16-69 0TD
          wk 15 11-44 0TD
          wk 1616-77 0TD

          These are Mike Davis level numbers. I also really like Mike Davis. Can carson put up 1000 again? Who knows, but he did that behind pretty mediocre lines then too. The point is, it’s not one thing. Its systemic. From team building, coaching, play calling, to execution. Things need fixing. Carson is/was the first bit of hope at the position we’ve had for a while. This is however, the league of “what have you done for me lately…”

          • Chris says:

            Carson is great when you look at just highlights. But as someone once said, the most important ability is availability. There are lots of backs who can deliver what he did this year (and his whole season). The idea of spending our first pick on a back makes my mind explode when the analytics are pretty clear that the quality of your OL determines how well your backs will perform.

          • BobbyK says:

            I think Carson is as close as we can hope to get to a Beast Mode type back when he’s healthy and therein lies the biggest problem of all. You can’t count on him. You know he’s going to miss time. It’s simply a foregone conclusion prior to the start of each season.

            Carson is a guy that can turn a 3 yard loss into a 1 yard gain. That’s an underrated quality about him. He’s also a guy who generally falls forward. That’s also important. He’s physical. He had a fumbling problem, but really cleaned that up this past year.

            But when it comes to giving him the ball 25 times per game like a Marshawn Lynch, he can’t do that (see injury prone career). Not many can. We were so spoiled when we had Lynch and I think I took that too much for granted.

            A Carson/Hyde backfield is solid. There’s a huge difference between Carson and Hyde though. We saw that this season.

            Sadly, we also saw there was a big difference between Hyde and the other bodies that attempted to play RB. But if this team is going to commit to the run and know they can only give Carson the ball 15 times per game, they’d better get another young option. Not some veteran stopgap at the end of the road. They need a young talented guy.

            I know they have Penny, but how much can they/we really trust him? If you are promising to commit to the run, you can’t go into a season with so many questions marks with your RBs.

            Carson – injury prone
            Hyde – old/solid, not exactly the picture of health in ’20
            Penny – talent, but can he be counted on…

            Even if they go into next year with those 3 (all could be FAs after 2021, too – depending on the Carson contract), I firmly believe they need someone else who can carry the load.

            Teams that want to throw the ball had better have receivers who can catch it. Teams that want to run the ball had better have a stable of RBs who can make the most of their carries. It amazes me the amount of times backups come into a game and waste snaps. There are only so many snaps in a game and if you’re going to run – you better maximize every single running play by giving the ball to a quality RB. Long gone are the days of having a LOB team where Robert Turbin could spell Lynch a series or two each game and waste carries.

            I think the odds of finding a veteran LG are much better than finding a RB. I like OL with a bit of experience and I like the youthfulness of young buck RBs who run with passion.

            • God of Thunder says:

              “ I think the odds of finding a veteran LG are much better than finding a RB. I like OL with a bit of experience and I like the youthfulness of young buck RBs who run with passion.”

              Exactly this.

  5. BigSmooth13 says:

    Love this stuff Rob! I like picking up the QB to motivate Russ. I think he had to have played hurt in the 2nd half of the season. As durable as Russ has been, this would also give us someone who might be able to win some games if he finally does go down.

  6. Uncle Bob says:

    Now we need to see if any details of JS extension leak out. If he had any genuine dissatisfaction with his role/power status, this negotiation would have been the time to fix it to his satisfaction. If no changes were made then he was good with his role and any perceived limitations…………..and we need to be prepared for same-o same-o.

    The Mond commentary is on target conceptually, it’s good to have an ace in the hole so to speak. I’d feel even better if they’d bring on a highly skilled qb coach like Pep Hamilton, who is looking for a job if he hasn’t already agreed to one that’s unreported. I suspect he’s looking to get an OC job and move up the career ladder so he might not see any future in Seattle, but Russ needs some help, if he’s open to it, to evolve his game to fit his physical changes as he ages, and a young prospect like Mond could get his rough edges polished as well. I don’t expect any of that, just wishful thinking.

  7. WallaSean says:

    i like the idea of a RB pick. I think the offense started its decline this season because of the faltering running game when Carson was injured. This allowed defenses to try different things against our passing game and when those new schemes worked (per Lockett) they struggled with the passing game. This offense can’t afford to run out of quality RB’s, At mnimum they need Either a 1B type to go with Carson or a three way real competition for the no 2 back. I think Carson is close to a must sign, but they need someone who is similar to Carson to lean on when he can’t go. I think the OL tight end should be reprised and we need a real FB that can be on the field more. That is a lot of pieces we don’t have at this time, but we need them. Russ is no chef, but he can do some cooking. He needs only one spice, the running game, and if he runs out of it, it’s a dogs dinner for all of the fans.

    • Chris says:

      I don’t mind signing Carson, but not at $8m or whatever figure people are throwing around. He just can’t consistently deliver. I’d much rather the pick be spent on OL. Carson is going to find the FA market very soft for a frequently injured back so we might be able to get him on a team friendly deal. Anything over $4m/year I pass on.

    • IHeartTacoma says:

      Me too. A cheap young RB, spend the money in FA on offensive linemen. The line play makes the running game work, just ask the Shanahan family. No need to pay star money for an RB.

      I’d take any of the players Rob mentions above. Write their names down now: We’ll be looking back on them fondly in a few years, a la Bitonio, McLaurin, and Chubb. Rob is really good at this.

      I’m down for the QB idea too. Maybe you strike gold and can free up even more money in a few years.

  8. Tony says:

    Love williams as the pick. But the way they were completely hammered by some dlines, plus the 9ers next year will be healthy there again, i gotta believe we go G/C. Brown is getting older and they are obviously not pleased with iupati. They could spend on mack, and grab a guard. Would be a great vet/youth mix up front. A vet at C would be ideal to help a rookie on the left and a 2nd year guy on right.

    Ankther thing they could do is extend dunlap a couple years and move some cap around. They have to find a bettwr recieving TE and bump dissly to a really good #2 TE. So many holes to fill and do with little space and resources to do it.

  9. Rohan Raman says:

    I really like Elijah Moore. He’s incredibly fun to watch and is a great route runner.

    Also, just a guess, but I can’t imagine DK being anything less than pysched to reunite with his Ole Miss buddy.

  10. uptop says:

    Rob, do you think there is any chance that Elijah Molden would fall to us, I feel like hes the kind of player that if he is around where we’re at you have to pull the trigger.

  11. NickW says:

    Sometimes Rob, I really dislike you. Lol! You post a video of a running back who just gets me excited if the Hawks were to draft him. I hate to say he reminds me of someone, but he does, only with more burst when he decides to go. Dude appears to be just as hard to tackle as the man I dont want to compare him to. Javontae Williams appears to be an absolute beast. But, I don’t watch college ball so I have no idea how the level of competition is that he is facing. I sure would not complain if the Hawks drafted him though that’s for sure. Now to go finish reading the rest of the article. Thanks Rob for all your analysis and insight this year.

  12. Scotty J says:

    Rob, I would be interested on what differences you see on film study vs the PFF grades. I’m not a pro scout, but I’m awful surprised sometimes with a PFF grade on a player I’m familiar with. Thanks and keep up the great work!

    • Rob Staton says:

      In fairness I’m not studying tape. I watch the games then sometimes watch them again. I haven’t watched the Rams game again. So I’m only basing my views on that.

  13. Silly Billy says:

    Jermar Jefferson, Oregon State , may be a later-round “budget” version of Javonte Williams. Similar in size, powerful and and a homerun hitter. Great #’s this year on a bad team.
    I’m surprised he isn’t higher on draft lists @ RB, but also that’s probably the “homer” in me (Go Beavs)

    Speaking of Beavers… Hamilcar Rashed Jr also is noteworthy. Profile wise, very similar to Bruce Irvin. Had a crazy 2019, but a pretty weak 2020 (nursing some injuries), so his draft stock may fall, but could be another later round steal.

  14. OP_Chillin says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY7KxTxhXho

    Skip to around 4:30 for specific commentary on Russ and the game film.

    This doesn’t leave me with much hope for a SB. Whatever improvements to pocket management that were made since 2017 completely evaporated by the end of the season. If you can’t rely on your top of the market QB to hit the meager opportunities that will be there against elite defenses with any level of consistency, it’s really going to be difficult to win in the playoffs.

    • pdway says:

      or maybe he just had a bad stretch?

      He has a pretty good track record over the past 9 years, including the first half of this year. Wouldn’t that be the more likely scenario than he is suddenly a mid-level QB?

      I know what we all saw in the second half of this season – I saw it too – but I also think slumps happen, and it’s not an unfixable scenario.

      • James Cr. says:

        I think Russ is naturally better off-script obviously. There is a part of me that thinks Pete has drilled it into him so much not to turn the ball over that he is just playing so tentative. I think it goes to show on that video too, there are plays where our OL has it perfectly blocked, our WR or TE is wide open, and still Russ doesn’t throw it.

      • OP_Chillin says:

        I wanted to believe this too man, but these issues have been there and most notably in 2017. Lots of people were dismissed for calling them out such as Cian Fahey, Andy Benoit (ugh I don’t like his analysis in general), Betz, and members of the general fanbase. Essentially the balance between passing up opportunities to keep the offense on schedule breaking the structure of plays and creating big positive plays is a very delicate one and creates a very high variance offense. Thus you get stretches like the end of 2015 and first halves of 2019 and 2020 where everything is amazing because they’re hitting explosive passing plays and catching the positive side of variance on out of structure plays. Alternatively you get stretches of bottom-tier offensive production because you miss the low-percentage explosive pass plays or eat too many negative plays (usually sacks or 3rd down failures) to produce a good offensive output.

        Guys like Matty Brown and Griff (cmikesspinmove on twitter) came onto the scene more in the past couple seasons and have reiterated these issues and provided numerous examples throughout those years. I’m afraid we’re going to live and die by the variance as I believe it’s too late for Russ to develop the skills to play within structure – his instincts are clearly to do the exact opposite and it’s massively difficult to overcome that.

  15. Matt says:

    Javonte or Elijah would be absolutely ideal at 55. I think that’s the best “bang for the buck” when it comes to help fixing this offense.

  16. BobbyK says:

    I wonder how much Pocic can improve?

    Positives: It was only his first year as the starting center. To his left he had a revolving door of left guards, led by a very old Mike Iupati. We saw Jones, Simmons, etc. there, too. To his right was a rookie. There would seem to be plenty of room for improvement if the LG situation was manned by a singular good/solid veteran (or talented/powerful/agile rookie). Seems the all-important continuity with Lewis at RG be huge moving forward. Lewis won’t be a rookie anymore and having a season next to Pocic will only help both moving forward.

    Negatives: Not real good grades in run blocking or pass protection. He’s not powerful. If you want to impose your will on defenses, this is not the anchor of your OL. Although he was only a first year starter at Center – he’s also been in the league for 4 years. There’s not much of a ceiling.

    Final Analysis: You can live with a finesse center if you have guards on each side of him who are men who can mash. Lewis can do that at RG moving forward. They desperately need a good/powerful LG if they want to impose their will on defenses with a finesse Center.

    • Matt says:

      2nd Round player with a ton of college experience who couldn’t see the field for 3 seasons. He had a below average season.

      He is what he is, at this point. Another one of our flush a high pick down the toilet moves.

      • James Kupihea says:

        Pocic has the distinct honor of being able to describe the ceiling of any stadium they play in…with great detail…

  17. BobbyK says:

    I wish there was someway they could draft both Williams and Banks.

  18. pdway says:

    I mentioned this thought in another post – but don’t you guys feel like a third target is essential to making this offense go a bit?

    Assuming re do re-sign Carson (and I know that’s not a sure thing, but assume it for the moment) – does anyone think our 2nd rounder might be well spent on a slot receiver or a small/quick type RB who can catch passes?

    • Matt says:

      I sincerely think a bonafide 3rd receiving option would do more than a marginal upgrade on the OL (the OL needs to improve). Simply talking bang for buck – I think Elijah Moore would be a homerun.

    • Elmer says:

      Yes it would help but if Lockett is a UFA they need to worry about that first. Figure out your critical re-signings and don’t fart around getting them done.7

  19. Kendo says:

    Rob your last three articles were really good and spot on. I remember being filled with such optimism at the start of the last offseason but now I am filled with dread. We got lucky this past season the injury bug hit our division harder than us and we can’t count on that again. Plus this front office really screwed things for the next couple of years.

    Next we need to figure out the cap situation. Can you write on this next since we have some tough decisions ahead of us?

  20. Henry Taylor says:

    I said on the last post, I want the Seahawks to keep Carson (cost permitting) and draft Javonte Williams. Watching the Browns, as well as feeling physically sick they passed on Chubb, I’m envious of their 2 pronged rushing attack headlined by two elite runners that can both break tackles and create yardage.

    • BobbyK says:

      Exactly. If you are going to commit to the run, you’d better have the horses. The Browns have two stud RBs they can count on – the Seahawks have none (insert Chubb/Penny joke – or cry like me). The Browns also invested heavily on their OL. So if the Seahawks want to do this right, they better get a young buck RB and a good LG somehow. I don’t have a problem running the ball a lot if they have the personnel to do it properly. I do have a problem with it if they’re going to give a bum like Hyde 15 carries a game and have a 98-year old Mike Iupati at LG.

      • IHeartTacoma says:

        Right on. Watching Cleveland I marvel at the holes the RBs have to run through. I think Carson would look pretty damn good in Cleveland.

        Disclaimer: I was watching Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh, so maybe a best-case sample…..

  21. Duceyq says:

    Banks would be an awesome add. The Saints prioritize the interior OL because Brees height and it would behoove Seattle to do the same with a young interior that can grow together at an affordable price.

    Love these breakdowns Rob! Your draft analysis is what brought me to your site. Thanks for all the work you put into these.

  22. dcd2 says:

    I doubt we’ll stay put and pick at #56. That’s our only hope to move down and get more picks. I just can’t see John leaving a draft with 3 guys. More likely that we move down 10-15 spots and add a 4th. Then probably -down again.

    So depressing to have such little draft capital with half of our team heading to FA.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Eventually though you have to pick someone.

      For me trading down is fine but I also can’t see them deciding a good idea is to not draft anyone in the top-75.

      • dcd2 says:

        75 is right about where I’d put the over/under for our first pick. I think they can move down twice and add two picks to get to 5 or 6.

        On the bright side, UDFA’s have to like their chances at sticking with a team that only picks 3-5 guys and no one in the top 50.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I can’t see it. I don’t think you can afford to trade down to 75 to pick up day three picks. They’ve got to try and acquire some picks.

          • dcd2 says:

            If they trade a player(s) for picks then I agree, there isn’t the need to trade down so far. I just don’t see who we move that has any value AND would be traded. John taking only 3 picks doesn’t seem likely though.

      • Matt says:

        Don’t understand this team’s ability to turn a $100 bill into five $10s and one $20.

  23. Rob Staton says:

    Just read a new mock draft on a big website.

    I have no idea what some of these people are seeing.

  24. Mark says:

    Brian Schottenheimer is a fantastic person and coach and we thank him for the last three years. Citing philosophical differences, we have parted ways.

    Wow.

      • Rob Staton says:

        “After meeting last night, it was evident there were philosophical differences between Schottenheimer and HC Pete Carroll.”

        Which basically means, Schotty doesn’t want to run Pete-ball.

        • Trevor says:

          Wonder how Russ feels about all this?

            • TO says:

              Russ to the Jets for Darnold and draft picks?
              Enough draft capital for Banks, Williams and more.

              • Rob Staton says:

                I’ve no interest in Darnold really. Let the Jets trade him somewhere else for a second.

                A lot of people get sniffy about these conversations but why not talk about it? Let’s go there.

                If they’re dealing with the Jets, get #2 and #23 and a high pick in 2022. That allows the Jets to get Wilson and they still own pick #34, #66 and whatever they can get for Darnold.

                Then you’ve got the option to draft Zach Wilson or Justin Fields. Or you can draft Penei Sewell as an heir apparent to Duane Brown. You can do that if you see something special in Trey Lance, Davis Mills, Mac Jones, Kellen Mond etc.

                You would need to add a veteran as competition if the rookie doesn’t come in and hit the ground running. Marcus Mariota and Alex Smith could be options there. I actually think Smith would be ideal for Pete’s scheme.

                With the massive saving you make in terms of QB salary, invest in a top left guard and center. Joe Thuney, Brandon Scherff, Alex Mack etc. Re-sign Sherm. Add another D-liner with proven sack numbers.

                Make sure you come out of the draft with a dynamic bell-cow running back.

                That’s the alternative.

                I think Miami might be even more appealing because they are ready to win now. And they have the #3 pick and multiple firsts too, plus a QB they can trade for another high pick (Tua — who I wouldn’t want in Seattle).

                A gamble to move on from Wilson? Undoubtedly yes. Could be a disaster.

                Could it also work out? Yes, yes, yes.

                • TO says:

                  I’m likely in the minority here but I’m in total agreement with trading Russ and doing it now. We need picks and a shot at drafting early while adding premium talent. I’d love to get Zack Wilson, Banks and Williams, we would a power running game that resembled 2012-2014.

                  Russ doesn’t want anything to do with Petes running offense. The last 5-6 games this season he didn’t look right. He held on to the ball too long, he looked a step slow and he turned the ball over far too much. I’m not blaming the teams failures on him but, I think he has outgrown so Petes offensive philosophy. Pete tried to change for the first 6 games and let “Russ cook” then after rebooting we saw the defense came back while the passing less. Is 35m per season for a “game manager/ point guard QB” money well spent? One can be found for far less while adding other critically important pieces.

                  The Seahawks went to two Super Bowls when Russ was the game manger in Petes run/ play action pass offense fmaking 500k per season. Dial that same formula up again because this isn’t working (winning Playoff games let alone conference championships). Russ will forever be an iconic all-time Seattle hero.
                  Let him finish off his career throwing the ball around. Sell high.

        • pdway says:

          or it’s just a respectful way to let him go . .. and it’s a recognition that a change was needed, and it was done early enough that we can get in on the better candidates.

          This is a GOOD thing.

          • Rob Staton says:

            Give over.

            Look at the report.

            They’re now being linked with Shane Steichen — who ran the ball to the point of laughter this year and nearly cost himself playcalling duties in LA.

            This is Pete insisting on control. He’s doubling down. He wants to run the offense his way. And he’s going to get someone to do it. That’s it.

            If you think that’s good news, then we aren’t going to agree.

            • pdway says:

              I’m a little confused . . . we knew PC wasn’t going anywhere. Did we want Schottenheimer to just run it back?

              • Rob Staton says:

                I don’t know what you’re responding to.

                You said this is good news.

                It isn’t good news.

                This is Pete Carroll saying he doesn’t want anyone to challenge his vision for this team. So the offensive coordinator has to go so the next yes-man can come in and do everything Pete wants.

                What Pete should be doing is appointing someone with a track record of success who he is willing to let coach the offense. Just as Saban does in Alabama.

                He isn’t doing that. He’s going to appoint someone who will do things like insisting on throwing to two-deep safety looks because that’s what Pete wants.

                • pdway says:

                  Isn’t that making a big assumption? Maybe i’m not seeing the same reports.

                  Citing ‘philosophical differneces’ is just a standard generic way to politely fire someone, it doesn’t have to be completely literal.

                  I didn’t want to run it back w Schottenheimer after this season, and I guess we can say it was all Pete, but i’m hopeful we bring in someone who can change what was a sleepwalking offense the 2nd half of the sesason.

                • STTBM says:

                  Might be your best comment ever. I agree so hard it hurts. Jodi Allen has sunk all hope by allowing Carrol God Power with this team, and it’s so over. If I’m Wilson, I’m hiring Rosenhaus as a consultant to get my ass out of Seattle Poste Haste…

                • Hawkdawg says:

                  Actually, that’s exactly what Pete just said he did NOT want. He said he wants a running game that forces one safety down into the box, so Russell can throw into defenses more likely to give up explosives.

            • Big Mike says:

              Totally agree with this assessment Rob. Exact,ly what I’ve been saying all year about the man’s personality.

              • Big Mike says:

                And I’ll add that one of our posters said he felt Pete sabotaged letting Russ cook mbecause he was pissed that a player would dare to want things done his way. I have ZERO doubt this is entirely possible.
                If I’m Russ I want out now.

        • TomLPDX says:

          Schotty just good screwed. He probably told Pete to stick his Pete-ball up his ass. If he won’t let Russ be Russ, then to hell with it.

          • Chris says:

            So now we’ll get some cro-magnon/neanderthal OC who thinks the forward pass is “newfangled.”

            Great.

          • Jeff M. says:

            Schottenheimer *is* Peteball. It’s what he was hired for. Bevell (!) was too creative and modern and dynamic and they sought out the most milquetoast, yes-man retread they could find to run, run, run to Pete’s heart’s content.

        • Tony says:

          Doesnt have to fully mean pete ball. Could be as simple as taking pressure off russ with taking what defenses give him. They kept running deep routes vs 2 high safety looks. They could have done some peteball when the defenses eased up in the box. Then transitioned back to play action when you fed carson.

          Fact is schotty was very much apart of the problem in the 2nd half.

          • TomLPDX says:

            Pete was the problem in the second half of the season, not Schotty.

            • Tony says:

              And how are we to fully know. Its not to excuse pete in his handling of this or his part in it. But to say pete was the sole reason? Thats ridiculous..schotty calls the plays, russ can change them as well. But gameplan was schotty. Pete saying we gotta reign back due to turnovers isnt the reason we turned to crap. We turned to crap becuase defenses adjusted. And we didnt have an answer.

              That is on schotty. Some blame to russ and pete too. But 100% on schotty as the main problem.

        • BruceN says:

          That’s how I read it. So anyone having thoughts of getting a more creative OC is Pushed further away.

  25. John_s says:

    Schotty’s out

  26. pdway says:

    wasn’t sure Pete had this in him ….as much as we realize the issues here, they did still go 12-4 and score a team record # of points this year.

    I’m pretty happy about this.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Of course Pete had it in him.

      He’s hell bent on doubling down on HIS way of doing things — the way that isn’t getting this team anywhere.

      I have a ton of respect for Schotty saying ‘NO THANKS’ and falling on his sword.

      No respect for Carroll on this, who completely refuses to cede any control.

      • TomLPDX says:

        This!

        Second your comment, Rob. Pete shackled Schotty and Russ in the second half of this season and it will now get worse.

      • OP_Chillin says:

        I don’t get this, Schotty was supposed to be “that guy” to allow Pete to reassert control in 2018… Rex Ryan went on record saying Schotty will do whatever the coach tells him to and is intensely loyal.

        I don’t think Schotty was elite but he was easily an above average OC who is a scapegoat now. Are we going to bring in his dad to run the offense? Mike Mularkey?

        To me, the tension is between Pete and Russ and I don’t see how that’s resolved with an OC change unless Pete brings in some up and comer and lets him have 100% control of the offense with Russ.

      • pdway says:

        I don’t understand how you are so certain here. Can it not just be a recognition that a change needed to be made? And being proactive about it?

        • Rob Staton says:

          No.

          It’s 100% clear this is about Pete wanting control and Schotty falling on his sword.

          Look at the first name to be linked. Guess what? Schotty was the first name linked last time. They’re probably finalising talks with Shane Steichen as we speak.

          It’s so clear what’s going on.

      • James Z says:

        The idea of ‘doubling down’ when anyone in power is questioned is oh so rampant in more than just sports. In business and politics the tactic is used time and again by those who can’t or won’t cede control. It’s now a given that PC is champion of the same pathology. I’ll have to assume that JS is OK with this based on his recent signing till 2027. I doubt seriously that JS was given much if any more control then he already had.

      • STTBM says:

        Yes, Yes, a thousand times YES! He’s Holmgren, Landry, Noll, Knox, only drunk on absolute power…

    • Ky Swift says:

      I’m not sure how I feel about this. I definitely wanted to see a change, but firing Schotty is not going to be the change we are all wanting. This will still be Pete Carroll’s offense. It would be nice if we could find some young creative offensive coordinator, but in the end I don’t see this making a huge difference.

  27. Rob Staton says:

    Pete Carroll surrounds himself with yes men.

    He doesn’t have anyone challenging his approach.

    That’s the reality of the Seattle Seahawks.

    And it’s not good.

    • TomLPDX says:

      If I’m Russ, I’m looking for the exit. Pull a Deshaun Watson on Pete.

    • Matt says:

      The doubling-down is beginning…and he’s going all in on it. I now think the RW not being on this team by 2022 is a near certainty and I think this spring just got a lot more interesting.

      I mentioned it yesterday – Pete is not going to end his coaching career doing things anybody else’s way than his.

      Man…I feel so deflated about this team.

    • Chris says:

      And Russ will have to learn a new OC’s system. That compounds the issue even more.

    • OP_Chillin says:

      My only hope is that they hire Doug Pederson as he is the only option who is clearly superior to Schotty as an offensive schemer. I highly doubt that, it’s a pipe dream but oh well.

    • Trevor says:

      Plus ownership is not strong enough to challenge him. Change the top needs to happen before the Hawks can be contenders again.

    • Matthew Martin Johnson says:

      Rob is it possible he’s going to find a coordinator more in the mold of mcvay or shannahan? Both those guys are run first play callers who set up interesting and exotic looks. Perhaps the staleness of the run game was the issue affecting Russell?

    • Ky Swift says:

      It’s so hard to be optimistic about this off-season. Sounds like we might be taking a look at OC from LA Chargers per Garafolo and Rapoport. Run first guy.

    • John_s says:

      Pete said in his presser that he doesn’t have anyone to challenge him like he had in the past and he needs to be coached up like anyone else. Carl Smith would challenge him, Brennan would challenge him.

    • Henry Taylor says:

      Pete did say he wanted to be challenged more in his presser, fair enough if you dont buy it, I dont really either.

      And honestly they needed to move on from Schotty regardless, their inability to adjust offensively throughout his tenure had to come to an end. Doesn’t mean things will get better, but they also arent certainly going to get worse.

      • Rob Staton says:

        Pete did say he wanted to be challenged more in his presser, fair enough if you dont buy it, I dont really either.

        He danced around the topic and said his son and ‘Tater’ were people who keep him accountable.

        I thought it was a depressing answer to the question.

    • Easy Answers Hard Choices says:

      This won’t change until Jody Allen gets around to selling the team.

      She clearly has no interest in running an NFL franchise the way her brother did. No criticism of her – she simply had the misfortune of being the sister of one of the richest men in the galaxy, and quite naturally their individual interests and passions didn’t align perfectly – just like any typical family. So she’s thrust into a position she never wanted – that of an NFL owner. Not to mention that most of her time is probably consumed managing Paul Allen’s considerable wealth – most of which is tied up in ventures NOT named the Seattle Seahawks. To venture a guess, I would also say she has no interest in hob-knobbing with OWG owners like Cal McNair and his ilk.

      While everyone here consider the Seattle Seahawks fate of utmost importance ( I completely agree), Jody Allen probably considers them a nuisance. And unlike most of Paul Allen’s “regular” businesses that have real competitors and need active and competent management to remain profitable, individual NFL franchises are more like different performers under the same circus tent. From a business perspective they don’t “compete” with each other. Given the enormous, reliable revenue stream generated from television/media, an NFL franchise is simply a license to make money both in terms of cash flow and enterprise value – regardless of any team’s on field “success”. The Seahawks are a classic low-risk, high return business enterprise, and given all her competing interests there is really no downside if Jody Allen engages in “benign neglect” regarding the Seahawks franchise.

      In this context, JA made the most expedient and logical choice available to her when she extended coach Wonka and his sidekick JS. One that allows her to kick the aforementioned “nuisance” down the road. From a long-term perspective the wise “football move” would have been be to hire an outside football consultant , which correctly would have led to the dismissal of coach Wonka and a complete overhaul of the franchise. But this would require JA to devote a tremendous amount of time and energy toward re-vamping an enterprise she has no interest in, and it would have no impact (good or bad) from a business perspective. So the default choice was to re-up PC for five more years. Unfortunately, the NFL game has passed PC by, and the team’s on field success will suffer badly as a result. But it will allow Jody Allen to focus on more important things…

      • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

        Disagree…first thing I thought when they were knocked out of the playoffs is that ownership would force Pete to fire one or both of the coordinators. ( I listened to Pete through that filter and I think what he said agreed with that possibility. ) That may be the case here with just the opposite of the above sentiments being true. I think Jody cares more about the team than most of the commentators, and this is one of the only possible moves that makes sense from a financial standpoint.

        • Easy Answers Hard Choices says:

          You’ve missed the point completely. Peter fired Shotty because he knows doesn’t have to operate under the facade of involving qualified and competent assistants. Shotty disagreed with Coach Wonka’s “my way or the highway approach, so he was fired and made a scapegoat at the same time. Very convenient for Coach Wonka. The only reason KNJ has a job is he because he remains happily subservient to PC. While she may not like running this franchise, Jody Allen is not stupid enough to believe that the assistant coaches were the problem. Coach Wonka’s meddling in all aspects, and subjugation of his assistants is well-documented.

          And it is laughable naive to suggest the hiring or firing of assistant coaches has any impact financially on the Seahawks franchise. Give me a break…..

      • Big Mike says:

        Outstanding and absolutely spot on post. You have succinctly assessed the situation and presented it in black and white in way that anyone without a lot of business experience like myself can fully understand. Bravo.

        Oh, and “Coach Wonka” was brilliant.
        😀

  28. Mike says:

    I wonder if russ is okay with this. If he wasn’t and Pete’s just gonna hire a guy who wants to run he might not be happy

    • Tony says:

      Rob, Im seeing some of your take on the schotty firing. Im a little surprised you’re upset with it. Is this pete getting more a guy his mold? Or is it firing a guy wbo couldnt adjust? Cause we didnt even run a true peteball. Pete ball is establishing run. Yet carson never touched 18 carries a game, even when he was running 5yds a carry. The seahawks were still a pass first team by every measure.

      I see the firing as schotty not able to adjust against what the defense took away. This is a needed change. Even if it returns more balance, which we needed at the end. Maybe true peteball doesnt fully return. Id like to see the OC before we hail this a failure on pete or him takimg all reigns from russ.

      • Matt says:

        “Philosophical Differences.”

        More than likely, Pete gave Schotty an ultimatum. Schotty said pound sand.

        Pete is doubling down. He is at the end of his career; he’s going to go out on his note which means they are going to run a bland offense and he will have a yes man at OC.

        That’s what this is about. It’s not about Schotty, per se.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I think Schotty knows what Pete wants to do next year and he just said… not for me.

          • Matt says:

            I’d bet a lot of money Pete flat out said, “this is how it’s going to be.” Not even implied – flatly said.

        • Tony says:

          I guess i just dont have the same take on it. Pete wasnt going to come out and say schotty sucked, hes fired. Philosophical differences could be any easy way out of slamming the guy. But the hiring will say a ton.

          I just wasnt impressed at all by schotty. Nothing in his past said he was going to be special and he ended up not special. Pete had to move on, and him saying any reason means nothing to me. Our offwnse turtled up 3/4 of the year. Russ his worst stretch and completely out of sync. If pete kept schotty, we’d all.say he has no balls and only wants yes men. But he fires him and we basically say the same thing.

          So its become pete cant do right on anything. Whatever he does.

      • Rob Staton says:

        It’s 100% Pete wanting to run the offense his way and Schotty falling on his sword.

        It’s completely and utterly about bringing someone in who will do whatever Pete Carroll wants.

        • Tony says:

          Maybe it is. Or maybe schotty just isnt trusted to fix this issue. He couldnt fix it last 3 months. Keeping him would only be walking into the same thing next year. Firing him is 100% needed to attempt to fix it.

          • Matt says:

            I don’t think neither Schotty nor Russ was given the chance to “fix things.” I think it’s abundantly clear that PC inserted himself on that side of the ball for the second half of the year. And unfortunately, he feels validated because he faced terrible offenses making him think his defense was elite, and not just a byproduct of a joke of a schedule.

            • Tony says:

              But if pete wanted his way, why dodmt we ride carson. I saw very little r,r,p, punt. Pete is run first, we passed well over 50% after he butted in. Saying we shouldnt throw 45 times a game isnt peteball. Pete would have lined up power heavy and pounded teams till the 4th. We passed early and often.

              Pete will always trust his d, and he has his faults. But if you want to condemn him for firing a bad OC, i just cant agree. I also dont like petes archiac philosphy. I hope we see a better OC and hes given more rope.

              • Matt says:

                I’m talking about putting the clamps down on taking chances. RW CLEARLY played scared during the second half of the year and was clearly second guessing everything. Passing windows in the NFL are miniscule – so if you beat into a QBs head to not take a chance; it’s going to make a QB look scared to pull the trigger and an OC look inept.

                I think they needed to move on from Schotty…but this whole thing wreaks of PC doubling down on a philosophy that doesn’t work.

                • Tony says:

                  I agree. Pete did meddle. Russ was super hesitant. And schotty needed to be fired. Dont mistake my take on schotty with an excuse for pete. He is frustrating in many instances. And i hope we stumble on some prodigy. That gives me better hope than schotty fixing everything.

                  • Rob Staton says:

                    Here’s a better idea than ‘hoping’ Schotty fixes things or ‘stumbling’ into a prodigy.

                    Appoint someone capable of running a good offense. Their offense. Not the offense of the 69-year-old defensive coach.

          • Rob Staton says:

            Yeah… they need the much more trustworthy Shane Steichen instead.

            • Tony says:

              Maybe. I dont know him enough to make a judgment yet. But its not what i watched the last 3 momths with this offense. Hope they find a good solution and allow the guy to run it.

        • Ashish says:

          He can have 2 clone 1 as DC and 1 OC. Pete needs perfect “yes sir ” guy like Kenny (DC). I think Russell with too many interception screwed the season and scotty.

      • pdway says:

        agree w this. The take on here may be proven right – but for the moment, it’s looking at this move in the most negative possible way. ‘philosophical differences’ is a meaningless term, it’s a whole lot more respectful than saying, ‘he’s fired because he failed’, or something like that.

        I didn’t think Pete would fire Schotty, I thought he would think the status quo (12 win season) was good enough – – instead, we’re going to get new blood. We all thought the offense needed to be better, the chances of that w Schotty running it back were likely close to nil, now at least we have an oppty for someone else to come in and take a crack at it. I don’t get why folks here are immediately jumping to that being a bad thing, based on minimal information.

  29. Rob Staton says:

    https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1349150843803725824

    Thank you to those who were quick to provide me with #Chargers rushing stats. Not sure what to tell you. Not stumping for Shane Steichen. All I know is he’s under consideration for the #Seahawks, who believe his philosophy meshes.

    Shite.

  30. Matt says:

    Oh my God there are now reports that Brennan Carroll could be an option as he has not formally accepted the Arizona job…Jesus…

  31. ElPasoHawk says:

    Look, Pete Carroll needs to be true to himself. He is a defensive coach who wants an offense that is about ball control and hit em deep when they sell out to stop the run coach. They threw the ball over 60% of the time, that wasn’t his style of offense and as much as he sticks his finger into everything he doesn’t call the plays. I know I’m the minority but I’m ready for some smash mouth football. My biggest problem with Pete and Schneider are the head scratching trades and draft picks that don’t fit this style.

  32. Mike says:

    Adam gase lol

  33. Nate says:

    My initial reaction at the Schotty news was to one of excitement, but after seeing some of the subsequent tweets from people like Schefter…looks like Pete is really doubling down on his archaic 80’s style football philosophy huh.

    Based on some of the names we’re seeing thrown out there, I would have actually preferred to keep Schotty. Seriously, Steichen? Guess this development matches what we’ve seen throughout the last couple of years under Carroll – no foresight, no innovation or adaptability, no accountability. Just plain old stubbornness and doubling down. The Martingale method only works if you have unlimited funds, and the Seahawks clearly do not have that.

    What a horrible way to start off the offseason and the ink is barely dry on that playoff loss.

    • TomLPDX says:

      Actually, the offseason started by signing JS to a long term deal through 2027…2 years after Pete’s expires. Now this. JS is bought into the system for now.

      If I was Russell Wilson, I would RUN, not walk, to the nearest exit. Your career as someone who will set records as a top tier QB are over until YOU decide to do something about it and take matters into your own hands.

      • Nate says:

        I honestly had some hope after the JS extension that he would claw back some measure of control since his contract length was longer than PC’s, but with the Schotty firing coming in quick succession it seems very clear that this team continues to have no accountability at the coaching level and will ride or die under Pete’s philosophy.

        I will continue to hold out a miniscule amount of hope for a promising hire on the offensive side, but at this point I’m praying that Wilson finally stops being a good guy for at least a little bit and starts making some demands.

        • TomLPDX says:

          I’m about as optimistic as you can get, always trying to see the best side. This time however, is so obviously skewed that I’m now pessimistic about our future as a contending team. I hope we get 8 wins next year…I’ll count that as a success for Pete, not for Seahawk fans.

  34. Hawk562 says:

    Which player on the roster is most likely to be traded to restock draft picks in the middle rounds ala Frank Clark? Adams? Reed?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Well I know which way I would answer this today

      • Mike says:

        I doubt they could get much for reed for it to make sense, but i bet they would if someone offered substantial compensation. Maybe Lockett. Or Wilson since he’s probably pissed. since there just going to run the ball a bunch might as well get some picks draft large offensive linemen and 3 running backs haha.

      • Ryan says:

        2027 is enough time to rebuild around another young QB.

    • Matt says:

      I’m thinking Russ and DK could fetch quite a bit.

      And now I have ZERO doubt that Jamal Adams is absolutely not being traded. No way is PC going to make it look like he made the wrong move on that one.

    • Silly Billy says:

      This may be a little out there- but I think Wagner could be on the trade block.
      Given how much they’ve invested at the LB position recently; you can reasonably imagine it’s been in the cards.

      Draft picks Brooks/Barton/BBK + maybe FA Wright/Irvin is a decent LB Core.

      It’s no Bobby – but maybe the downgrade would be worth an early 3rd Rd and some salary cap relief?

  35. Submanjoe says:

    Glad he’s out. I’ll reserve judgement until when I know who the replacement is, and if Russ had any say in this whole thing.

  36. Ok says:

    Out of Pete, Russ, Schotty….this is a bummer because it’s fake change. I do not have faith that there will be better results.
    The team is probably worth more money with Pete and Russ and John, no matter what the playoff records are.
    Bummer.

  37. Jordan E says:

    Schotty fired!! Theres hope!

    At least they are doing something.. the hire will be very important to see if Pete is ready to upgrade

    • Pran says:

      Firing Schotty before KNJ says something… need yes men!

      • Jordan E says:

        Defense looked decent at the end of the year. Frankly, Norton has done enough for me for him to stay.

        Im actually okay with the running offense Pete is saying. Think about ARod who will prob win MVP this year benefits from an amazing running game. The saints have a great running game as well. The only exception really is Mahomes and offensive coordinators like that dont fall on trees.

        We absolutely need to sign or draft a superstar RB for this offense. One who is explosive enough to go far as well as catch passes. Carson is a tough mofo but he is too slow and unreliable with injuries. Need an explosive power back with hands ideally. Does anyone know any big FA RBs this year?

  38. Matt says:

    From Russell’s Twitter…

    “Schotty… I’m grateful for how much you meant to me over the past three years. God blessed me with you, we won a lot of games, threw a lot of touchdowns and had a blast in meetings and our bible studies. The best days are ahead for you. Go be Great. God first.

    Love. 3.”

    That’s not just a thanks for your time message. I think the fireworks are just beginning.

    • TomLPDX says:

      Russ had a lot of respect for Brian and this confirms it. I can imagine an upset Russ at this point.

      • Pran says:

        Russ is always like that with everyone…no need to guess.

        • Matt says:

          Ehh…yea, Russ is always a nice guy; but that note seems intensely personal.

          • DJ 1/2 Way (Sea/PDX) says:

            Almost like Schotty already has a head coaching job lined up and a trade for Russ. Maybe the Chargers, with the QB and best defenders changing teams and draft picks to balance it out? Far fetched, but would you do it? Wagner for Bosa and Russ for Hebert?

            • Nate says:

              I mean as a Hawks fan, I would take that trade in a heartbeat, but why would the Chargers ever do that? They would be trading a relatively cheap franchise QB and a pass rusher in their prime for 2 expensive stars who are on the wrong side of thirty. You would need to entice them with at least 1-2 first rounders and I’m not sure even that would be enough.

          • BC_Hawk says:

            It was probably the fact that both were men of Immense faith, to the point he even referenced that in his eulogy above. I think Russ loved Shotty, but football is a business; my GUESS is that Russ was involved in this discussion.

            • TomLPDX says:

              BC_, no way Russ was involved in this discussion.

              • BC_Hawk says:

                Well, then we can agree to disagree. “Pete ball” or not; Shotty called the plays, and shotty made the adjustments. Pete referring that he overrode a play here or there does not get Shotty a free pass. I even wonder if it honestly was him overirding or just covering for overall poor clock management by all involved. Russ showed no sense of urgeny either.

                Russ wants to win, and if Shotty can’t game plan or adjust in the system, change is required. “Shotty Ball” died with the emergence of Cover 2 and 4 by our opponents, and a horrendous amount of turnovers.

                • Rob Staton says:

                  People are overthinking this way too much.

                  Schefter’s report, and Seattle’s tweet, made it clear. “it was evident there were philosophical differences between Schottenheimer and HC Pete Carroll.”

                  You don’t need to speculate on what happened. We know.

  39. Volume12 says:

    Chargers OC Shane Steichen? 35 years old.

    Why is this a bad thing? They aren’t settling & know they did to do better.

    • Matt says:

      Because this is all pointing towards a “Yes man” who is going to run exactly what Pete wants. He’s clearly doubling down.

      • John_s says:

        LAC was 57/43 run pass. He developed a rookie QB to one of the greatest rookie passing seasons ever.

        Not sure how he’s a “yes man”.

        • Matt says:

          What was the Chargers record?

          • Matt says:

            Looking at Run/Pass splits is lazy without digging deeper into the numbers. The Chargers were a bad team. They were behind the scoreboard quite a bit. That means more passing at a macro level.

            Steichen, by all accounts, is a run guy.

    • Rob Staton says:

      1. Because Shane Steichen has no pedigree to speak of to warrant this job.

      2. Because clearly the Seahawks are now planning on running an offense that not even Brian Schottenheimer wants to be part of.

      3. Because despite for weeks of us talking about how necessary it is for Pete to cede some control, he’s instead doubling down. And this has a serious air of a ‘yes man’ appointment.

      • Submanjoe says:

        I can’t argue with this. But is it possible that Schotty and Pete just can’t work together? Russ wouldn’t be caught off guard by this. And Pete must know Russ has to be accommodated.

      • OP_Chillin says:

        Also, did people watch Justin Herbert film? A lot of ridiculous out of structure or insanely tight window throws. Plus they would run the ball into a brick wall when Herbert was going off at times – I remember against the Raiders on TNF they were getting nothing on the ground and Herbert was shredding them. Only reason the Raiders were in the game.

    • pdway says:

      OC for a chargers team that threw it 627 times against 466 rushing attempts in ’20, and that had an obviously hugely talented, but still a rookie QB throw for 4336 and 31 TD’s – on a team that was without it’s RB1 (Ekeler) for most of the year.

      if you’re going to take a shot on a young OC, he’s not going to have the same pedigree. maybe you’re going to end up being right – but our offense was terrible and our QB just had the worst stretch of his career – – I think a change to the OC is better than running it back w the same staff again next year.

      Probably doesn’t lower our floor, and almost can’t help but raise our ceiling.

      • Rob Staton says:

        They threw it 627 times because they were down in nearly every game.

        Look, if you want to be happy about this news then go for it.

        I’m done for the night.

        After weeks of hoping for Carroll to cede some control, he’s doing the total opposite.

  40. Pran says:

    This is Schotty asking for more freedom and control. Pete says you’re fired!

    After all, Schotty agreed with Pete’s vision for offense. They just could not figure out to how to utilize Russ while defenses sold out to take deep ball and pressure.

    • pdway says:

      or….this part: “They just could not figure out to how to utilize Russ while defenses sold out to take deep ball and pressure” — is a problem that the OC’s job #1 is to figure out, and he didn’t.

      • Pran says:

        by all means.. if Pete does not interfere. like that 4th and 1 mess

      • Rob Staton says:

        pdway — you are doing an admirable job of trying to find the positives in all of this.

        But the statement literally says they parted because of philosophical differences.

        This is purely because Carroll and Schotty don’t want to run the same offense next year.

        And a quick reminder — it took two losses for Carroll to decide he needed to wrestle control from the OC and QB and run things ‘his way’ again on offense.

        So let’s remember that please. They were running his offense in the second half of the season.

        • Alex H says:

          Want to know who else was let go for “philosophical differences”? The young hot shot Jeremy Bates.

        • pdway says:

          look, you could for sure end up being right . . .I just felt like going into ’21 w Schotty (and KNJ) would feel like Groundhog’s Day, w not much hope of any different results. so i’m a little hopeful that they at least did something, and are not just accepting the status quo.

          I admittedly did not watch any Chargers games this year – so hard for me to know much beyond the numbers.

  41. Gohawks5151 says:

    Let it play out. They are moving fast

  42. Rob Staton says:

    Meanwhile, Josina has dusted off the old phone and called KJ Wright for some friendly media bargaining.

    https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1349159311109455876

    • Submanjoe says:

      KJ is great. He was on a team that went 12 & 4, he made great plays. KJ was on a team that lost in the wild card round. Love to have him back. KJ isn’t winning us a Super Bowl if he is making 7 or 10 mil a year…

    • Big Mike says:

      KJ was an All-Pro this year, even if sportswriters couldn’t see it.

  43. SeaTown says:

    It’s a shame. Carroll was set up to be a Seattle legend. I fear he will be hated by the time he leaves. But I survived Tom Flores and Ken Behring. I’ll survive this. What a shame. Paying a QB 30 million to play football like it’s 1972.

  44. Utah Gross MaToast says:

    After game 5, who would’ve had Schotty leaving before KNJ? Yet, here we are. KNJ is likely to stick, but the offense will be reined in. It’s going to be tough watching.

    I follow the Longhorns and have followed the Sark hiring for the past few days. In one interview, Sark mentioned Pete and the parting words Pete had for him coming off the field at the Rose Bowl, “we just got done beating Penn State — and he said, ‘Sark, just one last thing: Go be you,’ ” Sarkisian said. “He said, ‘Because at the end of the day, when adversity strikes, the real you is going to come out.’ ”

    Carroll hammered the point home. “You don’t want people looking at you, whether it’s players or administration, saying, ‘Who’s this guy?’ ” Carroll told him. “So, go be you from the beginning.”

    Adversity has arrived and Pete is going with what he knows. Agree or get out.

    The big unknown is how Russell feels about this. Was he consulted? Did he have any input? I’m guessing that he didn’t and I’m guessing this might not be something he finds to his liking.

    Things could get very interesting over the next few weeks.

    • Chris says:

      Exactly. I remember when it seemed like PC had found religion and embraced LRC. I was amazed, and then he proved that as soon as trouble arose, he reverted to his prior behavior. The leash was very very short.

      • BC_Hawk says:

        In Pete’s defense, I don’t think it was the LRC that bugged him; it was the ridiculous amount of turnovers. Whether Russ was trying to force stuff because of the piss poor D OR forcing plays that Shotty called into Cover 2s and 4s, the results were turnovers.

        When we watch truly dynamic offenses, they just seem to find ways to adjust and adapt to the opponents via game plans and in game adjustments. This just never seemed to happen with Shotty. Now, I am sure he was getting the “Pete Ball” mantra thrown his way, but it doesn’t explain how we continued to march out ineffective plays; Shotty had at the very least an opportunity to run a creative form of “Pete Ball”. What we saw saturday was Shotty in my opinion, and Pete just protecting his guys.

        Personally, I look forward to the change.

    • Utah Goss MaToast says:

      Interesting response:

      “Schotty… I’m grateful for how much you meant to me over the past three years,” Wilson tweeted. “God blessed me with you, we won a lot of games, threw a lot of touchdowns and had a blast in meetings and our bible studies. The best days are ahead for you. Go be Great. God first. Love. 3.”

  45. pepoandart says:

    Sadly you are probably correct about this being a power play Rob. But for fun are there any names you think would make sense to consider?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Anyone with serious coaching experience or a track record who can be trusted to control and look after the offense.

    • Gohawks5151 says:

      Get Doug Pederson in the building. He grew up in Washington as a Seahawks fan. Present it like Nick Saban does. Pederson was last seen tanking the last game. Sell him on being OC for 2 years and rehabbing his image with a true super star QB. Let him bring some assistants too.

      • IHeartTacoma says:

        Not a bad idea.
        Can Russell Wilson run a ‘modern’ offense? Can he throw the short, quick stuff? Is he really the best QB ever and just has a crap line?
        Interesting to see if Schottenheimer is the only casualty on offense.

    • Rushless pass says:

      Jim Caldwell, pep Hamilton, josh mcdaniels? Mike lefleur would put some panties in a twist

  46. Rob Staton says:

    The Athletic’s Daniel Popper has stated repeatedly that Steichen is regarded very highly within the Chargers building. This is technically his first season calling his own plays, but it has not gone well. Lynn has taken the brunt of the blame for the Chargers various clock management issues, and rightfully so, but Steichen deserves a larger portion of blame than he is getting. As the offensive coordinator, he is responsible for calling the plays and the Chargers execution in situational football has suffered because of his play-calling, specifically against the Buffalo Bills and Atlanta Falcons.

    Steichen shows glimpses of being a very creative and smart play-caller, but when looking at this season as a whole he has been inconsistent at best. The Chargers offense we all watched against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and New Orleans Saints is completely different than the one we saw on Sunday against the Denver Broncos, or the one from a few weeks ago that couldn’t move the ball against the New England Patriots. There is some debate as to how much of the vanilla play calling is due to Lynn’s conservative philosophy, but it’s still Steichen’s responsibility to call a quality script.

    https://www.lafbnetwork.com/potential-coaches-to-replace-chargers-oc-shane-steichen/

  47. Denver Hawker says:

    As an executive in the corporate world, it was evident to me there needed to be a head for this post season performance. Schotty was the likely fall guy.

    Call me unimpressed with whomever they hire from here though.

    Russ doesn’t show his cards much, but I can’t imagine he’s happy. It would shock me if he publicly expressed any discontent. Suspect Cowherd will be beating a drum to trade Russ now.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I can’t agree that Schotty is a fall guy. The statement spells it out.

      Schotty wants to be a HC one day. He isn’t going to get there running Pete’s offense, as laid out yesterday. It’s clear he doesn’t want to do what Pete wants to do. So it’s a mutual parting.

      No firing. Just a coach falling on his sword for the sake of his career. And Pete is now going to appoint someone who will do exactly what he wants.

      • Denver Hawker says:

        I agree the parting was likely mutual, as stated, but it’s still Pete saying, “I want you out”. I’ve fired people that later told me they were unhappy for awhile and just didn’t have the gall to leave on their own volition.

        “Philosophical differences”, “going in another direction”, it’s all courteous PR to fire someone with dignity to me.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I just don’t see it that way at all. “I want you out” is not mutual.

          And sure, that language is used in that way. But to me it seems like it’s just what has happened here.

          Carroll wants to run his offense and Schotty doesn’t.

        • Matt says:

          I imagine the conversation was:

          Pete: “Schotty, this is how we are going to do things next year.”

          Schotty: “I don’t think that’s how we should go about it. We can learn from the second half and have a counter punch.”

          Pete: “It wasn’t a question.”

          Schotty: “Then I’m not going to be a part of that.”

          *We have parted with OC Schottenheimer due to philosophical differences*

    • 12th chuck says:

      My guess is we will find out how Russ feels via cowherd

  48. Submanjoe says:

    Schotty’s offense was predictable, it was obvious. And he was hired as an oc known to run the ball. Schotty changed. And this year the offense after the first five weeks became so obvious, the running game became token. The deep pass became must have, whether because Pete or Russ or Schotty, I do not know, but we were all waiting for it, and so was the other teams. No running back getting the ball twenty times in a single game all year, ridiculous. I don’t know what the plan is, it’s hard to guess another mans ambition when he’s only 35. If Pete thinks he’ll be a yes man, then we’ll be having this same conversation in a couple or three more years. But if he can disguise plays and and adjust the offense to attack the next team they play, that’ll be a step forward.

    Also, I get that Pete is an interferer. But he cannot be interfering in every play that is called, the bulk of that is on the OC. And maybe Pete knows Russ’ limitations better than Schotty did.

  49. STTBM says:

    ….And Ken Norton Jr is still employed, while Kris Richard, Dan Quinn, and Gus Bradley are either recently hired by other teams or not on speaking terms with Carroll.

    How can anyone see anything other than Carrol becoming Caesar…he’s a God now…

    Goodbye Russell Wilson and winning, hello the end of winning football.

  50. 12th chuck says:

    so much for smash mouth football around here for awhile. Pete’s is doubling down on his beliefs, and he wants unique athletes which translates to players that cant stay healthy all season, miss games etc. At the very least, this offseason I wanted ,at the very least, pete to quit meddling with the offense, and it apparent the opposite has happened. going to be a long offseason

  51. Wild Bill says:

    Not sure I agree with all the defending of Schottenheimer. His offense worked against early covid impacted defenses, the league caught up, and it didn’t work as well. I think before Pete interceded and even after there was a lot of 7-step drop, wait for DK, while the pocket collapsed and everyone watching is yelling throw the DAMN BALL!.
    I have yet to see a competent screen play out of this coaching staff.

  52. GHouse says:

    Maybe I’m reading too much into this but considering that’s what most people are doing so far this off-season. I’ll just bring up that Russell “liked” this tweet.
    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1349146332783665154?s=19

  53. Chris says:

    Making russ look like mark Sanchez isn’t likely to make you a front runner for a head coach.

  54. Chris says:

    Im not saying this is a good or bad thing I don’t really know what happened behind the scenes and neither do any of you. But I remember pete saving our season when schotty was first hired by making him run the ball. The fact is schotty just liked taking deep shots without using the running game to set it up. I for one is glad he’s gone.

  55. Ryan Purcell says:

    They are not getting rid of Russ or Pete – who did that leave if we want new blood? I’d love to have an OC who might make an in-game adjustment or two. They are moving fast and realize that what they had was not good enough. This is good news.

  56. charlietheunicorn says:

    Bold moves within about 24 hours

    Resign the GM
    Fire the OC (I read it as a firing)

    The OC was not a huge shock. The constant poor 3rd down production really “grinded my gears” and caused many a drive to stall out the last 2-3 years…. leading to the defense getting exposed to time of possession fatigue later in games. If you do not fit what the HC wants, you are out. Decisive is better than indecisive when it comes to leadership.

    Can you imagine if they had the gall to bring back Bevell??? LMFAO

    I think Pederson would go to one of the HC openings, with the lean towards the Chargers. No way would I take a job with the Jets or Jaguars….. no way.
    It sure sounds like the lean is towards Steichen right now. Maybe a guy out of college might be flying under the radar…. but I liked what he did with a slightly outgunned Chargers offense overall. As Rob mentioned, they threw the ball because they were CONSTANTLY down to every team big time. The defense was toast. What the upshot is that he has more creative passing offense and rushing offense than was demonstrated the 2nd half of 2020 from Seattle. No reason not to bring a young whipper snapper in and inject some new ideas into the offense, within the frame work of 50/50 split passing/rushing.

  57. BobbyK says:

    The Seahawks aren’t going to be able to break the bank for anyone this off-season, but I wonder if they’ll have interest in a 25-year old Cam Robinson. I remember he was a consideration (Kevin King, too) the year the Hawks took Malik. He has four years of experience at LT and he’s the type I could see kicking inside to play LG. That could open them up for drafting Javonte Williams, while getting a big ugly to play to next to Brown.

  58. Chris says:

    Not a bad thought bobby.

  59. JLemere says:

    So can we all agree that the PC extension was a horrible idea?

  60. KD says:

    Pete should just do all the play calling himself then, and no, I’m not being sarcastic. Seriously, why not just do it that way?

    • Rob Staton says:

      Because Pete wants to control the offense, not coach it.

      • KD says:

        So he started his tenure as season 3 Daenerys and now he’s season 7 Daenerys. Yay. We all know where this is going then.

        • charlietheunicorn says:

          GoT went off script around season 7, so not quite the same.
          I appreciate the Dragon Queen however, she is scrumptious.

          • KD says:

            I just meant that she started out as a leader who inspired people to join her, and then she eventually turned into a tyrant who demanded that people bend the knee or burn due to insanity and self righteousness.

  61. charlietheunicorn says:

    I look at it this way, in the modern NFL, you need to limit the touches opposing offenses have…. everything is stacked against the defense already, PI/DH…. If you can burn clock and hold onto the ball, which is what I think PC really wants, it doesn’t matter to him if you rush the ball or throw the ball…. you just need to control the ball more. Rushing the ball is the less risky approach. It might not look elegant, but you can keep the score under 25 most days with a competent defense (top 15).

    When the offense constantly flames out on 3rd downs….. it will not end up well. %/converted
    2020 40.2% (24th), 2019 39.5% (16th) and 2018 38.9% (16th) the last 3 season….. the league improved overall while you got much worse in 2020 compared to average.

  62. Frank says:

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Someone had to be the whipping boy, and while I’m making no apology for Shotty, as I’ve seen no sign of genius in his career he’s just meh, and whatever happened with all the Wilson turn overs certainly he owns part of those. I loathe the idea of Pete having control or influence even on the OC hiring or what happens on that side of the ball.
    It would be a very interesting read to see potential OC or DC profile article written with the same type of analysis as draft picks. I’d personally like to see a creative, younger fresher mind brought in. I’d rather take a chance at someone with a chance to be great, than a retread who’s ceiling is known. Pass vs Run doesn’t matter to me as much as spacing and being able to attack and force the defense to defend every blade of grass equally and unpredictably.

  63. Cysco says:

    I made a comparison between Pete Carroll and Jerry Jones the other day. This just solidifies it that much more.

    Hire coaches that are “yes men”? Check
    Meddle in Personnel decisions causing the team make odd draft choices and free agent signings? Check
    Live in the past, trying to replicate the good old days? Check

    Prepare yourselves for eternal mediocreness. At least the Cowboys are in a terrible division. Maybe we can all pool our billions together and buy the team asap.

    • Gary says:

      This is an amazing comparison. I watched all 8 episodes of season 3 of All Or Nothing on Amazon Prime with a behind-the-scenes look at the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones’s level of control and interference was staggering. Jason Garrett became a sympathetic character because you could see he was just a puppet. Pete Carroll is everything I hate about Jerry Jones. The game passed both men by long ago, they are blinded by ego and hubris and living on past glories. Jones is the reason the Cowboys lead the league in 8-8 finishes and Positive Pete is the reason we will not see a playoff victory until he’s gone.

      • Cysco says:

        Indeed.

        I live in Dallas (originally from Seattle) As a casual Cowboys fan now I’ve seen how a “football guy” with 100% unchecked control over a team plays out. The similarities between both men are very apparent to me. Unfortunately I see the path of the Seahawks following that of the Cowboys.

        They will overpay for players they shouldn’t and embrace a brand of football that is likely not to work. They will have enough talent to be competitive, but not the right talent to have any hope of postseason success. We will find ourselves in a cycle of mediocracy. Not being bad enough for top draft picks, not good enough to make a run. All because one man has all the power.

        Most Cowboys fans will admit that there is little hope for success until Jerry steps aside. I believe the same is true for Carroll and the Seahawks. The franchise needs a fresh start. We won’t get that until new ownership takes over.

  64. KD says:

    Just a reminder that Jonathan Taylor accumulated just under 1200 yards, averaged 5.0 YPC and scored 11 TDs……..and was a huge fan of Carroll’s style…..and wanted to be a Seahawk.

    • Big Mike says:

      But, but we needed another LB far more than a workhorse RB. Brilliant!

      • Scot04 says:

        When we traded up to #48; i thought it was for Claypool, Akers, or Diggs. Was not expecting Darrell Taylor. To me that was more upsetting. Especially now after seeing what could have been after a full season to review those 3 players NFL rookie seasons vrs our Darrell Taylor. Sigh

  65. pugs1 says:

    Parting ways with Schotty was a business decision plain and simple. We all know the Seahawks have limited cap space and very limited draft picks. The only way this team can make real change this offseason is with the coaching staff. IMO this is why Schotty walked the plank and I doubt they are done with changes to the staff. I’m willing to wait and see who they hire before I grab my pitchfork.

  66. Mick says:

    I think it was reasonable to expect if that you give a head coach a 5 years extension, he will have the say on how the team plays. Regardless whether BS did not agree to play what Pete ordered, he still deserved to go for the way the offense performed after the bye. It was on him to make things work and he failed. Besides the awful percentage on 3rd downs, the team also showed a complete lack of imagination, no new plays, no surprise element for the opponent. He is responsible for that.

    I’m happy Schneider stays. Yes he had a few expensive misses, but he also pulled a couple of very nice deals and draft picks. I trust him to keep the good work.

    The big question that we have now is: do we need a 35 mil. QB to run the ball? Will the new OC be able to get both Pete and Russ happy? Is the departure of BS a sign that Russ must go some place where he can play according to his wishes? If BS gets a head coach job, will he try and get Russ there?

    The next thing is how do we establish the run, as Pete requires. Clearly the priority is at RB, where we have no certain solutions. If Carson stays, we need a second RB who can replace him in the likely case of an injury. Penny and Hyde have not been convincing imo, Homer and Dallas are not there (at least yet, but I’m tired of giving guys third chances and watching other rookie RBs bloom). If he stays, we need a first runner and a backup for him.

    The next thing is the offensive line, both for the run and for stopping the huge pressure that our QB has been taking. We need a LT, a LG and competition for Pocic at C (ideally someone who takes his place and makes him backup). Of course a cool solution would be Joe Thuney but there’s no chance this happens.

    Another problem for the O are tight ends. Olsen is an extremely expensive mistake (I’m not sure RW shouldn’t be held accountable for it, I think he pushed for him). Hollister will likely go, Dissly has not been used much but when he was he didn’t look extremely strong, especially in rush blocking. Parkinson is not a solution to me. As strange as it may sound, I wonder if it wouldn’t be an option to go TE with our first pick, if TE is the best player available there.

    On the D, we got Dunlap as a proved solution, Collier and J.Reed have improved too, Poona was a great surprise, Alton Robinson should get more playing time. It’s hard to expect something from Taylor but if he comes back to usual shape he will also contribute. OK, we don’t have Aaron Donald or Bosa, but we can work with this. We need at most depth moves here. At linebacker is where I expect change. KJ wants to be paid. Not saying he does not deserve it, but we are on limited budget and we didn’t invest our first pick in a LB to pay KJ. I believe he will go, and I hope he will land outside NFC West. At corners we have huge problems, and if Pete wants to go to his old style he should seriously consider Sherman. At safety we have enough depth to let Adams go, but this won’t happen. I wonder if having both Blair and Adams on the pitch won’t make things work better.

    Sorry for the long post.

  67. OP_Chillin says:

    https://twitter.com/friscojosh/status/1349166522950844416

    Tweet contents:

    “SEA first 8 games:

    C3: 27.1%
    Man 1: 24%
    C2: 21.7%
    C4: 12.3%

    Last 8:

    C3: 34.8%
    Man 1: 29.1%
    C2: 16.8%
    C4: 7.7%”

    So, apparently, the Seahawks faced 2-high shell coverages on almost 10% fewer plays in the second half slump than they did when they were (mostly) firing on all cylinders! I wonder if this accounts for the pre snap read vs. the post-snap picture as many teams were starting 2-hi then spinning down a safety to play Cover 3 so it charts as C3 but to Russ it looks like 2-hi before the play.

    • Ukhawk says:

      Cool stats and post ! Lots of questions..

      Does a run play then counter both pre & post snap or just one?

      What did more MC in 2nd do – Better if u can protect, worse if not?

  68. GoHawksDani says:

    I’m not familiar with the guy that is rumored to be the new OC, but I don’t mind Pete-ball, IF:
    1, We trade Russ for a good amount of picks (if it’s late 1st then something like 3 R1, 1 R2, 3 R3, if it’s early R1 (top5-7) then 2 R1, 2 R2, 2 R3)
    2, Get a QB who can operate the short-medium passes quickly and well and can throw deep (don’t need to be super good or uber accurate just be able to throw to open guys deep), don’t need to be really mobile, I need a game manager pocket passer who can move some. Like Tyrod Taylor or someone similar maybe
    3, Get a good DE, similar to Dunlap or Clark. Draft or FA can work either
    4, Get one or two good DTs who can stop the run. I wan’t a run defense similar to the Saints’
    5, Get at least one but preferably two good CBs. Maybe Sherm (I doubt he wants to come back, but if he’s open to it, do it) and a rookie. Flowers can be backup, Reed can play nickel, RS and backup outside CB (or let the competition begin for starting job)
    6, Retain KJ for 2-3 more years
    7, Extend Bobby or re-work his contract to limit cap hit
    8, I’m fine trading Adams if we can get maybe a mid R1 and R3 for him. Blair and Neal can likely jump in his shoes, but we can also draft or get a safety in FA that would fit more of the default Hawks D. But I’m also fine extending him for 16-17m APY (lower GTD because of injuries heavily incentivised but not for sacks, instead FF and int, TFLs)

    This would solidify this defense, if it can build from it’s form at the second half of the season.
    We need to stop the run and be able to pressure (even with 4) and good CBs who can help with sacks (coverage sacks) and can force turnovers.
    It’s 3-5 new players which is doable with added ammo for draft and cap space

    For the offense, I’ll need these changes:
    1, Retain Carson for the right price (4m base, with heavy incentives for broken tackles, yards after contact, TDs)
    2, Draft an RB relatively early…similar to Carson (if we goes down or can’t handle the load, we shouldn’t feel any drop)
    3, fix the OL: We need a really good LG and C. We want to run in the middle, we need good guys for that. We can deal with future of the LT next year, but we can get an OK swing OT in the middle rounds (can be a 6th lineman, backup and maybe future RT/LT if he’s overplay his draft position)
    4, Get a good game manager QB (preferably vet) who can easily make 3-7 yard throws quick and is an OK deep passer (nothing fancy but not awful either…he needs to be able to hit DK if he’s 4-5 yards open deep), doesn’t need to be really athletic but should be able to move a little (in the pocket, rollouts, little scrambling…not Russ or Lamar, just OK)
    5, Get a good WR3…if we could get a really fast dude who can run short-middle routes well, return kicks/punts, do some screens and jet sweeps and is fast especially on short routes. Someone like Deontae Harris for the Saints…that would be great
    6, Get a good FB
    7, Get a good TE (not sold on any of our TEs)

    This seems a bit harder than the defense…around 7 guys. But fortunately we won’t need major ammo for it…if we’d wanna draft all these players, probably could look like this: RB R2/R3, C R2-R4, LG R2-R3, QB (I’d prefer a vet, but from draft…) R2-R4, WR3 R3, FB R4-7, TE R1-3
    Only from the draft it wouldn’t work, but we can get QB, LG, maybe C, maybe even WR3 and TE from FA too.
    With good trade backs and smart money management it might be doable. If not in the 1st year, the year after that they could build a team that could win close, low point games (like 20-13, 17-14, 26-20). Schneider would need to make magic and make really smart decisions, but as long as the team wins and have the opportunity to go to the SB I don’t care what type of football we playin’

    • Ok says:

      I’m sorry but I think you are highly overvaluing Russell: hawks aren’t going to get that many picks for him. I also don’t see how they trade trade Wilson. The team is too valuable just doing what it’s doing. The majority of the fans and local media are fine with what’s happening: ‘be glad you are winning’. That point Cha made the other day of the jags and the hawks having the same amount of playoff wins since 2015….
      Seeing as how there is no stopping this Peteball, I hope they truly commit to it. Whole hog. Personnel, coaching, stay the course. I don’t think it will work, but saying say that you want to fix the passrush, and then messing about, well that’s just too hard to watch. If Carroll wants to run the ball and have that type of team, I hope the construction of the team represents that. Again, I don’t think this will work, I think the roster is very far from where it would need to be (both lines are far from dominant, amongst many other areas of deficiency), and there isn’t the resources, draft picks or cap, to get there, but the weekly identity conversation is terrible.

      • Cysco says:

        If they trade Russ it’ll be for one (or both) of:

        Russ forces it – I don’t think any of us would be surprised if Russ says “I’m done with this” and forces a trade.

        Money – If the team isn’t going to use his strengths and just wants him to follow the game plan and hand the ball off, then they’re wasting $30m a year. Just get a veteran backup type QB and spend that money elsewhere.

        Honestly trading Wilson now (even with any dead money hit) is probably the best move. If the second half of the season is a preview of the next few years, his value is currently at its highest.

        • Jordan E says:

          Russ is not going anywhere. Would be a terrible move both for salary reasons and loss of a franchise QB. I’d bet money a team like NE would swoop in and pick up Wilson on some low ball offer since his trade value is less now.

          • Cysco says:

            If I’m in the front office I’m picking up the phone and calling the Cowboys this afternoon. A blockbuster trade for Wilson is exactly the kind of move the Cowboys would make.

      • GoHawksDani says:

        We gave up 2xR1 and R3 and a good player for Adams and a 4th.
        They won’t undervalue Russ, I think the struggle will likely chalk up to Carroll.
        An established, good/elite QB without injury concerns in his prime should net a king’s ransom. Even if he had a bad half of a season.
        Anything under 3xR1 and an R3 would be the biggest failure of PCJS. And that’s without a bidding war

  69. Rokas says:

    Let’s agree on one thing, that if SEA hires someone like Doug Pederson, we have to admit that we were wrong about “yes man” stuff, because you can not have it with SB champ like Peterson. I am not saying that Rob is wrong, or that Pete deserves a benefit of the doubt at this point, but these “philosophical differences” reported by Shefter not necessarily mean Pete needs an obedient dog. Pete is an old liar when it comes to communicating stuff to the media, and we know it, he can say anything and not mean it all, if he believes that it helps to protect the team. Let’s wait and see who do they hire as OC.

  70. pdway says:

    bottom line to me – is that numerous times – on this blog, during games – rob (or someone else) would note re the offense ‘we appear to have run out of ideas’ – – and I agreed every time.

    during games, it just too often seemed that their defense was a step ahead of our offense – and we seldom had an answer, other than going back to the same old well of plays.

    so, while I don’t take lightly the concerns that this will put the offense even further under PC’s non-innovative thumb – I at least have some hope that we’ll bring someone in who isn’t out of ideas. BS got his chance, and did some good things, but ultimately, it was our offense that failed us in the 2nd half of the season, and crucially, in the playoffs.

    • Rob Staton says:

      But again, the head coach literally took control of the offense half way through the season and started dictating what they had to do.

      You say you wanted adjustments? Carroll said he wanted them to keep throwing deep on Saturday.

      And now Schotty and Pete have philosophical differences. Of course they do.

      It’s staring you in the face what the problem is, guys. It’s the Head Coach. He refuses to cede ANY control on the offense. No coordinator can operate to the best of their ability when there’s a HC meddling ALL the time.

      • Henry Taylor says:

        What if they bring someone in who is capable of running a creative offense within the parameters of a Pete Carrol’s desired philosophy? Someone who can creatively scheme a run a game, who can set up deep shots off well timed PA and getting Russ on the move?

        I think it’s highly unlikely because we don’t get nice things, but two names thrown out there are Mike Daniels and Mike LaFluer, the 9ers run and pass coordinators. The Shanahan scheme would be the perfect way for us to work within Pete’s style and still have a creative offense, plus they smash the Rams on a yearly basis.

        • Matt says:

          Henry – Here’s the problem…as soon as that “creative offense” sputters – PC is going to force his hand on the offense. It’s inevitable.

          He completely overreacted during the middle of this season. RW always has a rough patch during the season and overcomes it. Clamping down on Schotty and RW only made the problems persist because it is near impossible to hit deep shots when you mandate your QB to not turn the ball over.

        • Rob Staton says:

          There’s more chance of me playing for England than either of those two being appointed.

          Here’s the reality. No OC worth his salt wants to run PC’s offense, with him meddling all the time. These guys want to be head coaches. They don’t want to prop up someone else’s vision which many teams see as outdated.

          • OP_Chillin says:

            And why would Shanahan let them get away to a division rival? He’s already said he’ll only let one of those guys go and they’ll likely follow Saleh out of division. The other guy he’s going to promote to OC so he can decline them the ability to interview for an equivalent position at another team.

      • Ok says:

        The offensive strategy looked the same with the last two OCs. Wasnt Bevell, Wasnt Schotty.
        I have never been a big Russ fan, he is too weird/fake, looks asleep. I agree with folks that say he seems to process the game slower, doesnt diagnose. Maybe ive been wrong: maybe he is having to override his instincts on how to play, to do what Pete wants.
        To make Peteball work, they need to trade Russ for draft capital for the trenches. They wont trade Russ because he makes the franchise worth more money. Ownership just reupped on the last 5 years. Expect more slogans, covid competitions, voting discussions. 9-7 to 12-4, no more than 1 playoff win per season.
        so bummed.
        Pete didnt care about the false start on 4 and 1 because he wanted to punt.

        • Matt says:

          Yep, agreed. To me it’s really simple – the NFL runs on a salary cap meaning you have to pick and choose where you spend your resources. Pete wants to play a certain way which means it’s stupid to pay your QB $35M to simply be a care taker.

          He wants to run with a mediocre-below average OL, with a RB who can’t stay healthy behind a defense that is “ok.”

          This is called being stupid with your resources. I posted a clip the other day of Steve Sarkisian – his main point was build with what your players can do – not what you want to do. He went from Jalen Hurts to Matt Ryan to Tua to Mac Jones. Anybody with a functioning brain would know that those guys are all different and require different schemes to function properly.

          Pete Carroll – whether he is looking at a Ferrari or a Honda Civic; wants to race Le Mans. I don’t know Pete…maybe you should use that Honda Civic as a reliable commuter car and go ahead and race with the Ferrari. Stupid analogy, but Pete is absolutely horrible with coaching the talent he has.

          The only time he did that was with Jamal Adams, which is kind of amazing when you think about it. And I think that was *exclusively* about justifying a stupid, big trade that will handicap the franchise.

      • pdway says:

        You really think that PC took full control of all the playcalling? And that he vetoes any in-game adjustments that a good OC might suggest?

        Seems more likely to me that PC did something along the lines of demanding that we cut down the turnovers and establish a run game. Both of which are decent goals – but it’s all about how you get there.

        And we can disagree on whether ‘philosophical differences’ is merely an example of PR-speak, or someone giving the media a fully accurate insight into why a coach was fired.

        • Matt says:

          Dude…nobody is saying Pete took over playcalling. But it’s absolutely clear he gave a mandate about cutting down the risk in the passing game.

          Additionally, he literally said he vetoed the 4th and 1 playcall.

          So, yes…he inserted himself into the process, even if it doesn’t mean he took over playcalling.

          It’s hard to have functioning passing game if your singular mandate is “don’t take chances. Don’t turn the ball over.” Windows in the NFL are miniscule – so I have no doubt that contributed to RW looking terrible, which in turn makes an OC look terrible.

          If you want to have your QB merely not turn the ball over – you can’t pay him $35M. You just can’t. Pete has to accept risk in the passing game if he wants to have explosive plays. You can’t say, “I want an explosive passing game that doesn’t turn the ball over.”

          “I want to eat cake all day and have 6 pack abs.”

          • pdway says:

            it’s fine – I don’t think i’m going to convince you guys – but i’ll just say that a HC having input into what an OC is doing (even vetoing a single/important play) – does not seem that outlandish to me.

            And every coach wants to cut down on turnovers – QB’s w less ability that RW threw less picks this year – so I don’t think that necessarily means that you run a risk-free offense.

            I do think that the offensive scheme had a lack of imagination, a lack of easy plays – that I see when I watch other teams play. That’s why I’m OK w this move.

            • Matt says:

              First – it is absolutely outlandish to overrule an OC during a playoff game, in a critical situation, and wanting to defer to punt which is the wrong move by any standard you throw out there (football instinct, analytics, etc). Pete is not an offensive guy – this is why we continue to say “he clearly wants an OC who will simply do what he wants.”

              This is where we have a disconnect.

              Yes, QBs with less ability than RW threw less picks – how many TDs did they throw? How many of them would have overcome historically bad defensive play?

              This is the crux of the problem…if Pete’s singular focus on offense is “don’t turn the ball over,” then don’t pay your QB $35M. It’s very simple. And if Pete thinks you can have a dynamic passing game and never turn the ball over – then I have ocean front property in Arizona that I’d love to sell to him.

              Football is about trade offs and calculated risk. Pete seems unwilling to acknowledge this. And furthermore, the source of my frustration with Pete comes down to coaching the team he wishes he had; not the one he actually has.

            • Rob Staton says:

              There’s a world of difference between ‘input’ and ‘controlling everything’.

        • Rob Staton says:

          I didn’t say that, did I?

          I said he took control and dictated what they did. And that is 100% clear.

          I didn’t say he vetoed any in-game adjustments either. But he certainly vetoed Schotty on 4th and 1. He admitted to meddling.

          And we can disagree on whether ‘philosophical differences’ is merely an example of PR-speak, or someone giving the media a fully accurate insight into why a coach was fired.

          Disagree if you want. I guess that’s convenient. When the reality is that’s exactly why they parted. Last time I checked the top NFL insider didn’t dabble in PR.

          • pdway says:

            Not really looking to get heated. Don’t really see where my opinion is convenient, as opposed to a different interpretation, based on the premise that people choose the info they want to feed to the media, and it’s a lot nicer to say philosophical differences, than, ‘he failed’.

            • Matt says:

              This is a sincere question because I don’t know – but did they do the same with Bevell when he was fired?

              Genuinely curious because I found the “philosophical differences” comment to be “out of the way,” if that makes sense.

            • Rob Staton says:

              My point is it’s convenient to say the report from Schefter and the Seahawks reveal that the parting was mutual is simply PR.

              Carroll has just come out and told us what HE is doing with the offense next year. A day later, the OC goes citing philosophical differences.

              We don’t need to convolute this situation. Pete wants to control the offense. Schotty doesn’t want to run Pete’s offense. They parted. Inevitably, whoever comes in will be someone willing to run Pete’s offense.

  71. Big Mike says:

    Pete given a new 5 yr.
    Followed by JS getting a new contract
    Followed by BS getting fired
    Likely followed by KN staying

    If you all can’t see the pattern of a despot here, I’m sorry you’re not looking at this critically imo. Despots surround themselves with yes men. That’s what Carroll is doing.

    Furthermore, he will NOT trade Adams despite his obvious shortcomings both physically within his role and in terms of fit within Seattle’s defensive scheme because that would be tantamount to admitting he was wrong and despots don’t admit they’re wrong. I said this exact thing about any possible Adams trade 2 months ago. Instead, he will soon be given a shiny new contract this offseason.

    Seeing who Pete Carroll is isn’t that difficult if you’ve had any training/education is psychology. The definition of the word despot is as follows: a ruler or other person who holds absolute power, typically one who exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way
    Let me make it clear when I use that word I am referring only to the first half of the definition. I do not believe Carroll “typically exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way”………well maybe oppressive but not cruel. Pete is not a cruel man.

    Get out as soon as you possibly can Russ.

    • Matt says:

      Yep…totally agree.

      Said it earlier – there is no way Jamal Adams is getting traded. Pete will in no way admit mistake on that. He is doubling down and step 1 starts with surrounding himself with people who won’t stand their ground against him.

      And when RW throws for 3400 yards and 22 TDs next year.
      And when DK catches 50 balls for 800 yards.
      And when this defense finishes 10th not top 5.
      And when this team is 8-8 and it’s the same sh*t, different day.

      You are going to see guys force their way out. And that’ll start with RW and DK.

      • Rob Staton says:

        The only bit I disagree with is they might get to 9-7 instead

      • pdway says:

        You also said w conviction that Schneider was going to head out the door . . .

        “Matt says:
        January 3, 2021 at 8:21 am
        What seems to be lost on many folks is that guys that work their way up to CFO at a company usually have ambition to be the CEO. JS will always yearn to be the Alpha of an organization. He’s not going to settle for 2nd fiddle. You don’t get to that level, in any profession, without the desire to be “the guy.”

        The naïveté is breathtaking. “Isn’t RW just happy to be considered the 4th best QB?””

        Why does a marketable guy like JS, who clearly has opptys elsehwere, re-up for 5 more years, if Carroll is this power-mad despot? The guy has his shortcomings, no doubt about it, but I’m not with you on this narrative.

        • Matt says:

          I find it very weird that you are tracking my comments, but you do you.

          First I’ll ask – do you know the parameters of John’s new deal, outside of length? Do you know if he has more say in the process? How do we know that John’s demands didn’t include “more authority in personnel decisions?” I do find it interesting that John’s contract goes beyond Pete’s tenure – meaning he is set up to hire his own coach. So…I don’t think this is quite the “gotcha” that you think you have.

          Furthermore, John is a strong family guy with a kid who has autism – I’m sure that plays a massive role in not making dramatic changes. That doesn’t change the fact that JS is absolutely set up to be “the guy” once Pete is done after his contract (Pete’s not coaching past this contract).

          Nobody has said that “Pete is a power-mad despot.” My continual theme has been that Pete wants control and combined with him being at the end of his coaching career – he’s going to double down on his convictions.

          All of this is just my opinion. You’re free to have yours.

          • pdway says:

            ugh. I am not tracking your comments – I just went back to that entry to make a point. And of course i’m happy to have differing opinions on here,, a conversation isn’t interesting if everyone agrees all the time.

            and now, I’m feeling like this is all getting personal w people I don’t really know, which is not my intent.

            So, stepping back for a while.

            • Matt says:

              My apologies…I shouldn’t have said that and know you are not trying to be personal. I’m sure I’ve come across as an ass (not my intention).

              It’s all good…we have a strong disagreement over sports. Life will go on.

              I hope you don’t step back – I’ll do better trying not to be snarky, which again was not my intention.

              I’m only going to add, I have a lot of conviction with my opinions on this because this all felt so predictable.

    • BobbyK says:

      “…typically exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way…”

      I totally see this with the Jamal Adams trade. He traded away a 1 & 3 this year and a 1 next year. I find this cruel and oppressive as a fan to not have any hope in either draft until 2023. That sucks.

      Pete had a long-term vision when he took over. He doesn’t have that anymore.

      • BobbyK says:

        What’s really stupid is to not have a long-term vision when you’re locked up through 2025. OF course, he’s getting old, too.

  72. Big Mike says:

    Well yeah I will go with cruel and oppressive to us as fans considering what was given up and what little hope we have for the next draft. Good point Bobby.
    The only vision I see grom him is a clear focus on having complete and total control of everything.

  73. James Kupihea says:

    I think that Pete believes if everyone is 100% committed to his system and culture that he can win. That if his system is properly executed it can be ran in the face of any modern NFL offense/defense.

    If he’s always going to summarily explain that it comes down to execution…then his system can never be at fault. EVER.

    I solemnly believe he just promotes the new OC internally………..

    • Matt says:

      I think you are 100% right.

      I think it’s great that Pete is totally convicted in having his culture, but I think being stuck with a “system” is very foolish.

      We all know the NFL Draft is pretty much a crap shoot. It is paramount that you build a system and team around the talent you have.

      I’m listening to 710 ESPN (because I’m a glutton for punishment, apparently) and Danny O’Neil is passionately defending Pete – “he wants to play elite defense like he had with the LOB and run smash mouth like he had with Marshawn.”

      Can anybody tell me what the problem is with this statement?…

      He doesn’t have the LOB, nor does he have Marshawn.

      I’ll go a step further…he’s nowhere near having the LOB and likewise nowhere near having Marshawn. So, how dumb is it to be stuck in a system that requires 3 HOFers in your secondary and one of the most intimidating RBs in NFL history, in order to win?

      It’s dumb…really dumb. I’ve said it before – being convicted is great. At some point, convictions turn into shortsightedness which ultimately becomes stupidity.

      That’s where we are at with Pete.

      If Pete is serious about getting back to what he wants – he needs to deal Jamal, RW, and DK to get the capital it requires to build the team he wants to play with. Otherwise, square peg, round hole.

      • Scot04 says:

        DK fits what Pete wants to do. He wants to run to set up the deep ball. He decided to keep throwing deep instead of making changes and adjusting to 2 deep. He wants to see if he can for teams to change their defense vrs making any adjustments to his game philosophy. Unfortunately our current offensive line not setup for what he wants to do, and non of our current RBs under contract are feature backs. Will be an interesting offseason

  74. Hawks_Gui says:

    https://youtu.be/mgvxOGaw6wc

    Florio already pointing out that Russ time in seattle is coming to an end because of PC

  75. BobbyK says:

    I don’t believe there’s any way the Seahawks can deal RW this off-season. Rob has alluded to the cap implications for this off-season AND the Seahawks would suck next year without out him… that will lead to a high first-round pick in ’22 which belongs to the Jets. How horrible would the Jamal Adams trade be if the Seahawks pick in ’22 is top 5? With Russ – the Jets pick won’t be all that great. Maybe 18th? 22nd? That’s an easier pill to swallow than giving them the 4th overall pick in ’22. It could turn out like the Texans giving their 3rd overall pick to the Dolphins this upcoming year – how stupid is that?

    • Rob Staton says:

      I disagree to be honest. I used to think without Wilson, this team would pick top-five. Yet in the second half of the season, Wilson sucked for the most part and they still won a bunch of games.

      Put in someone who can run this offense and I think they can have a winning season in 2021 without Wilson. Especially if you get a bunch of picks to add a major influx of talent.

      • BobbyK says:

        Think the Jets would part with their 1st rounder for him? I’d be fine with Zach Wilson handing the ball off as a rookie (like RW did). I just don’t want to go back to the days of having a clown show at QB (granted, RW himself played like a clown the last part of this season).

        • Matt says:

          I love Zach Wilson…but I would hate to see him in Seattle for the simple reason that Pete would downplay his skill set. I’m thinking someone like a Trey Lance would be the better option which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if such a move was made to a team that wasn’t necessarily in the top 5 picks.

          • dcd2 says:

            Agree with this 100%. Lance is much more up our alley.

            He wouldn’t take a top 5 pick, he threw ZERO interceptions in his 28 TD 2019 season. He’s tall and athletic (like Josh Allen and Mahomes who John scouted heavily). He throws a nice deep ball. His dad was a pro football player (CFL). He played hoops in HS. He led his team to an undefeated title.

            I’m not saying he’ll be the next Josh Allen (who struggled quite a bit as a rookie anyway) but he checks way more boxes than Zach W.

      • TomLPDX says:

        If we do end up moving on from Russ, Mond actually wouldn’t be that bad of a pick. I watched Mond for his entire Aggie career and at first I hated him. But he has continued to grow and improve each and every year. This last year was definitely his best and he shows that he can operate well out of the pocket and run the ball if needed. In the right system he will be a good QB.

  76. JW says:

    PC is the new Jerry Jones… change my mind.

  77. BobbyK says:

    Seahawks “splash” move of the off-season: Cam Robinson to play LG and possibly be future Duane Brown insurance. Sure, I would suggest a stud OL but that person will be expensive. Since the Seahawks can’t afford that – it would be a stupid want.

    But Robinson is only 25 and has 4 years starting experience at LT. I think he’d be a better LG than LT. He’s barely a top 50 tackle so it’s not like we’re talking about a guy who is going to get paid handsomely. This would adequately eliminate Pete’s stated desire to improve LG and allow their 2nd round pick to be a RB. That would do a lot for the running game.

    • Matt says:

      Interesting idea. Seems like an easy transition and could be a great way to investing in the OL without expending the limited draft capital.

  78. Ok says:

    That Florio link above is hard to hear, the stuff Simms says about the Seahawks leaving plays in that just won’t work. As an aside, Simms is enjoyable for me to listen too, he and Rob would be ideal.

    Field gulls poster ‘The Quatch’ posted this article

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/ncaafootball/06ucla.html

    Bummer.

    If the Seahawks resign most players, think they are close, and just run it back next year….won’t be able to watch that.
    If the Seahawks make significant cuts/trades for draft capital and start building the team that Carroll wants for his vision, well at least that’ll be a cohesive plan. I don’t think it’d work in today’s NFL, the amount of stuff that had to go right for the Seahawks in 2013/2014 wasn’t insignificant, but at least there won’t be ‘identity’ conversations.

  79. HawkfaninMT says:

    Maybe I have missed something… What the heck could the philosophical differences have been?

    When BS was signed wasn’t the tune “that makes sense! He runs the ball a ton and has an old school mentality.” Perhaps I am remembering this wrong. But I feel like that was my main disappointment at the time. That the Hawks basically hired an OC to run the Pete-Ball offense.

    So if there is a “philosophical difference” (which is kinda a very broad phrase to me), why do we assume it means PC is doubling down? We know that PC said he wants to get back to an effective ground game. Perhaps he wants zone scheme, and BS wants to run more traditional man to man blocking. That would be a philosophical difference. Perhaps PC wants to use a committee and BS wants to stick to a Bell Cow back? Also a philosophical difference.

    I guess I am choosing to be optimistic here, perhaps foolhartedly. What I would like to hear more than anything else, is that the “Hawks hire “BLANK” as OC. As part of the evaluation/hiring process we consulted with RW to ensure it would be a great working relationship.” I think I care more about that than whomever they actually hire

    • Matt says:

      The problem is that they have very limited resources available to actually establish a dominant run game.

      No RB. I’m not counting Chris Carson because he clearly can’t handle this role nor do I think they should pay him to do so.

      Poor interior OL play including a finesse OC. Damien Lewis is a fine player…by no means dominant. You have big holes at the other Guard spot as well as Center.

      And no draft capital or Cap space to work with.

      The concern here, is that they don’t have the personnel for what Pete wants to do. This is the source of a lot of our frustration. And if you think DK and RW are going to sit idly by while their production diminishes…I don’t know what to tell you.

      *Not my intention to crap on your optimism – just making sure the opposing side is understood with our concern moving forward.

      • HawkfaninMT says:

        All good my friend….

        My optimism isn’t necessarily that the Hawks are going to be Super Bowl bound next year. I suppose my optimism is that this change could potentially mean that the offense will execute better. To me the play calling, execution, and tempo were more problematic than what players were actually playing. That is a coaching issue which I understand PC had a role in playing, and will continue to have this role.

        But can it get worse? Sure, Adam Gase would be a travesty! But is someone new (SD OC? dont even know a thing about him yet) going to do worse? If RW gets a say in the hiring I will feel much better than if they even hire a “name” OC without RWs input. I think my optimism will end there though.

        • Volume12 says:

          Didnt they just hire a ‘name’ OC 3 years ago in Schotty? If he didnt have the Schottenheimer last name, would he be an NFL OC?

          • HawkfaninMT says:

            Right… I am not advocating for hiring a name OC. What I am simply suggesting/hoping is they incorporate RW in the decision making process. This is assuming RW is in their long-term plans.

            I guess to be more direct:

            I would rather them hire “SD OC” with RWs input than “Big Name Hire” with no input from RW.

  80. Volume12 says:

    I wonder if Pete knows Russ is part of the problem here. He cant see the MOF. The only way to get teams outta the 2hi coverages is by running the ball.

  81. Happy Hawk says:

    So many changes so fast – trying to digest the collective wisdom of football insiders, people in the know on this site, and others. What I have culled from all of this is the way forward to Hawk’s success looks like this:
    1. Fire Pete C – he is a despot, stubborn, old man with no coaching skills left in the tank
    2. Trade R Wilson – he is playing scared, fake leader, with declining skills and a bad attitude about Seattle
    3. Dump Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright – too old and too expensive
    4. Trade J Adams – Cost too much draft capital and is not a good fit for this team going forward
    5. Fire Shotty because he is not a yes man
    6. Fire Ken Norton because he is a yes man
    7. Hire an OC with HC experience molded after Andy Reid
    8. Give JS total control of the team’s roster
    9. Have J Allen step aside as owner and cede responsibility to someone who cares

    A lot to process. Not sure what is a way forward to success. Given the above we are in for an epic fall into the cellar of NFL losers. Didn’t think 2021 could be worse than last year bit it seems like the Hawks are done being competitive. Bummed

    • Simo says:

      Nice list, seems kind of depressing to see it all summarized like that!!

      After such a disappointing playoff loss (to the hated Rams no less) of course fans are hurting and as fans we are likely to say anything. And really the entire second half of the season for the Hawks was so puzzling…fix one problem but create an arguably worse one! It’s no surprise that many fans are calling for major changes to the team.

      After processing the playoff loss and the entire season, I have personally been able to settle down some. It is only football after all! Look at all the much more serious issues we are facing as a country, or planet.

      Regardless, I still think this team needs a shakeup, starting with some turnover in the coaching staff and the players. There has been some already with Schotty’s parting, but I seriously doubt many more of the things on your list become reality.

      I’ll continue to remain a loyal fan of the team no matter what happens, and I’ll be happy to have the opportunity to discuss things here on SDB. As a football fan the only alternative is to find a new team to follow, and I can’t go down that road!!

  82. OP_Chillin says:

    Hey I don’t know sh*t about the draft, but I see people arguing over Devonta Smith and J’marr Chase as WR1 coming out this year. What do y’all think? I recall hearing Chase was a top 4 pick after last college season but haven’t kept up.

  83. Duceyq says:

    I think we should all be in “wait and see mode”.

    -I don’t want to jump to conclusions but I firmly believe that a change in OC would “not” have happened w/o RW’s sign off.

    -I also firmly believe that a new hire at OC will come with RW’s endorsement.

    -As reported here by Doug Farrar it seems the like Russ, PC, and others on offense were unhappy with the lack of adjustments offensively to how teams were playing them later in the season. Sounds like RW wanted a more uptempo attack and PC wanted the passing game to be more intermediate than just deep shots.

    DF’s report
    https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2021/01/12/seahawks-part-ways-with-offensive-coordinator-brian-schottenheimer/

    My thought is maybe new blood at OC is a good thing and Shotty’s difference philosophically my not mean more “Peteball” but a simply a more diverse attack. I remember many were upset when Shotty was hired yet now many are upset he’s been fired. His time Seattle has been an upgrade over the Bevell years so it’s possible to upgrade after the Shotty ones too.

    The names floating around shouldn’t be alarming because what they were before under different regimes won’t necessarily be they’ll be under this one. A young OC with fresh eyes might be good but I’m still sure whoever is chosen RW will have signed off on too.

  84. RIP Sonics says:

    I have a feeling Pete and Shotty disagreed on why the offense petered out in the last 10 games. To me the biggest problem was lack of variation in time to snap and poor flow of play calling.

    Second half of the year they just waited to break the huddle until 5 seconds left on the play clock giving pass rushers time to recoup and time the snap without hesitation. This was either by design to keep the defense off the field longer or was an issue with Shotty being slow to get plays in. I would bank on the latter being more prevalent. Shotty has not proven to make good adjustments as yet. For all the crap we gave Bevell, he was actually pretty good at halftime adjustments (just bad at initial game planning). The first drive of that Rams game you could tell the game plan was terrible. Outside run, The reason being is the first drives were often a disaster and poorly planned. They threw the ball almost 60% of the time this year. That is not a recepie for winning football in the playoffs. Just look at the team that are still playing now. Only the chiefs throw the ball more and they were in a ton of 1 score games.

    If Russ wants to be more productive, he needs to take what is given to him. So many times you would see them pick up 3-10 yds on a run only to throw the rest of the drive to stall out or take a terrible sack. Was he waiting on routes develop? Was he getting handcuffed to limit risk? Was he hurt? Were they trying to pad his stats? Maybe some of all these? It just seemed like defenses knew what was coming. If Russ gets to the line sooner he could make more adjustments at the line and adjust protection.

    Russ holds the ball much longer than other quarterbacks in the NFL and it works magically at times and horribly at others. He is capable of getting rid of the ball quickly as we saw in the first Rams match up but most of his catastrophic interceptions come on those bang bang throws. Maybe they weened those out after the stretch of turnovers.
    Russell is at his best he is escaping and running to punish the cover 2. He looked slow and unsure about running making me think he was banged up. If this is the case, adjustments needed to be made and give him easier completions and run the ball to protect him (not that outside rushing we saw against a fast Rams defense). This makes good lineman even more important as his escapability declines.

    If Russ can’t run as well anymore we can’t keep the same playbook. I think he is capable of playing like Brees but he needs a more creative coordinator that can manufacture a unique game plan and give Russ more time and control at the line of scrimmage. I do think this could be compatible with PC. Shotty was not creative enough in the run game and struggled to create easy targets for Russ as a result. Too many identifiers for the defense to cue on (ie. No carson in the back field -> pass, no RB at all -> Pass, not throwing to TE’s let the 2 TE set’s cue on the run and deep ball with max protect). The Rams especially knew exactly what we were running on the screen play.. they knew exactly when we were running the ball.

    First few games we threw to the running backs in the backfield and it worked great. Even with DJ Dallas it worked. For whatever reason that stopped (maybe Pete). Without RB and TE targets, shotty’s offense was shot. Maybe Greg Olsen and Carson injuries were a big reason for this but its the NFL and you need to game plan for what you have. The switch to DK as the primary read also hurt the offense. In the end of the year, Russell wouldn’t even progress to Tyler Lockett in his reads before having to turtle and run into sacks. I think that DK was best when Lockett was the first read and russ looked downfield if that was taken away. When DK was the primary, he wasn’t getting open enough and not sure handed enough for Russ to feel comfortable throwing early. I think another option in the pass game to get open quickly (ei. TE, RB, YAC reciever) and running the ball more effectively and often will bring defenses up and punish the sagging coverage.

    On these lines, it seems the best pick for the Hawks this year would be a RB who can pass pro and catch out of the backfield (and stay on the field), an actual full back who you could disguise passing plays with, and another sudden target who can create after the catch. I nasty Center couldn’t hurt either but I think we could worst case bring in some Veterans to compete at the interior line if a good target doesn’t fall to us. We have a lot of guys returning on defense so I think you go offense early this draft unless a stud drops to you or you can ship some of the middle class guys on the roster for picks.

    My Favorites:
    RB:
    Javonte Williams – North Carolina (he is a stud and has been a stud like you have been saying Rob) – nasty runner but biggest help would be as a reliable pass protector you could leave on the field for all 3 downs and give Russell more time when someone blows past a lineman. We all love Marshawn the runner but Marshawn the pass protector may have been one of the most missed attributes in our offense that allowed crap lineman to be hidden. I think you take him or a Stud Center/Guard with the first pick.

    WR:
    1) Ihmir Smith-Marsette – Iowa (Sr./6-1/183) – My favorite receiver in college football. YAC ability of Percy Harvin with catch in traffic ability of Golden Tate. I think he would fit perfectly. Shows up every game as a receiver and runner, durable and tough. Should go lower because he had less production in a run heavy offense. 3rd round would be a steal.

    TE:
    Tony Poljan – Virginia (Sr./6-7/265) – Solid willing blocker, fantastic hands. Former All state basketball player who showcases that skill set. He is Virginias most reliable receiver and the best blocker in the run game. He is often shifted to match up with the best pass rusher in games. Just looks and sounds like a Seahawk. I think he would be a day 3 pick at this point making him a good option.

    FB/TE:
    Shaun Beyer – Iowa (Sr./6-5/248) – just a tough football player that makes phenomenal plays when targeted and shows up big blocking in pass and run game. Not sure how he is rated so hopefully will be available late or UDFA. He is overshadowed by the other TE on Iowa but he impressed me more.

    Sorry for the long winded post.. thanks for the medium to vent Rob! Always grateful for this page (especially for offseason nerds like myself). Looking forward to your thoughts on the draft and if any of these guys showed up to you.

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