Podcast, Schotty & Russell Wilson’s future

Today, to coincide with the podcast, I wanted to spend some time discussing Brian Schottenheimer’s departure and the future of Russell Wilson.

I think the mutual nature of the parting with Schottenheimer, as announced by the team and reported by Adam Schefter, isn’t PR or some polite way to mask a firing.

I think it’s genuine.

Pete Carroll made it clear in his final press conference that he intends to run the offense his way.

They tried something different at the start of the season. At the first sign of trouble, Carroll re-took control and there was a marked difference in the approach.

Now, Carroll is doubling down.

Since the reset started in 2018, the man at the top has set out to do things his way. He’s surrounded himself with his men. He moved on any dissenting voices either on the staff or in the locker room.

Carroll’s coming to the end of his coaching career. It’s the final flourish. Rightly or wrongly, he is asserting his authority and dictating everything.

He’s going out on his terms with seemingly no regrets.

I don’t think it appealed to Schottenheimer to continue working in this setup, with a Head Coach dictating so much of the style and vision of the offense. I doubt there was any animosity or crossed words. Just two people deciding a change was best in terms of their own personal priorities.

Schottenheimer will now seek another opportunity. Carroll will go about finding someone willing to run the offense he desires and ultimately controls.

Only one name has been linked so far — Shane Steichen, the LA Chargers offensive coordinator in 2020. I don’t know about you but there’s a sense of inevitability about this.

I’ve seen people suggesting or hoping for a Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan disciple — such as Mike McDaniels, Mike LaFleur or Shane Waldren.

Let’s be serious here. A candidate from San Francisco or LA is not going to go to division rival Seattle to run Pete Carroll’s offense. They would be coming from highly successful, highly coveted offensive schemes. They will want to run what they want to run. They will want to set the table for Head Coaching opportunities in the future.

They are not coming here to be overruled on fourth and 1 or have the identity and style of the offense dictated to them.

Carroll would arguably be better off ceding control, trusting someone from a diverse, creative and ultimately run-centric system to operate their own scheme. All with the promise that you might be the heir apparent to Carroll.

Throw in a fancy title. Give them a huge salary.

That’s not going to happen though. This will be the offensive version of Ken Norton Jr instead. Someone simply willing to install whatever Carroll wants.

Jason La Canfora reported the following today:

I’m told things finally fell apart between Carroll and his offensive play caller during season-review meetings when it was clear their philosophies as to how to right an offense that went south in the second half of the season were far apart. The mandate was essentially to find ways to keep pounding the rock, and a change that was not originally planned went down quickly.

There is definitely some skepticism in the coaching ranks as to how attractive this job is, even with a talent the likes of Russell Wilson to work with (and those receivers). If I was the Seahawks I would reach out to Chiefs quarterback back Mike Kafka and Ravens quarterbacks coach James Urban and Clemson offensive coordinator Tony Elliott. I’d be looking for the most inspired choice to find ways to attack all quadrants of the field through the air and tap into Wilson’s unique skillset. But it’s fair to say there is skepticism within the industry about this search actually playing out in that manner.

So there you have it. If you were wondering if Schottenheimer was simply fired for bad performance, you now have your answer. He didn’t agree with Carroll’s ideas on the way forward. A parting wasn’t expected or planned, it all happened quickly.

This isn’t encouraging. It means the search for a replacement effectively becomes about finding someone willing to do what Schottenheimer wouldn’t. Not about finding someone who is necessarily proven, dynamic or ready to take the NFL by storm.

Ultimately this will lead to more of the same. And let’s appreciate what that truly means. One playoff win in four years, against the Josh McCown-led Eagles.

Look at what Mike Tomlin is saying after a ‘winning’ season in Pittsburgh where his team won a division title and 12 games:

“I understand we better make some changes in what we do — schematics, personnel. I’m committed to doing it.”

Carroll instead called the 2020 season ‘excellent’ and is doubling down, not changing anything other than the people who aren’t interested in doing things his way.

Recently we discussed what this might mean for the future of Russell Wilson. I know I say this a lot — but if you haven’t already, read the article. I don’t want to just repeat everything there and I think there’s a lot of information and reporting from established sources that needs to be noted.

Mike Florio, who as recently as last summer cited sources who believe Wilson will eventually be traded, said the following today:

Florio’s source is Mark Rodgers, Wilson’s agent. Rodgers has appeared on Florio’s show in the past. When he reported the ultimatum at the start of the season, nobody disputed or denied it.

When he says he’s trying to get you ahead of the curve, he’s spelling out what is going on here.

Wilson’s wants and desires do not match Carroll’s for the offense. As I said in the piece recently — the only way to make this work was to win. They didn’t win. They lost, emphatically, in the playoffs.

I’m willing to speculate with confidence that I don’t think Wilson has faith in this brand of football producing different post-season results in the future. Neither do I think he has any love for this style of offense. I sense he sees himself as a peer of Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers, not Ryan Tannehill and Baker Mayfield.

So I think we’re moving into a very interesting period in Seahawks history.

I don’t know whether anything will happen this year. It’s a very difficult situation for either party to instigate, unless they both — a little like Schotty — decide a mutual parting is best.

I think we might well be witnessing the early stages of a parting though. We’ll see what happens. I think anyone believing Wilson is just going to go along with whatever Carroll decides is being naive. Especially given how legacy-conscious he is and knowing he turns 33 this year. The clock is ticking for Wilson and his peak.

Frankly Carroll might be having similar thoughts. This is a coach who is used to churn. He’s gone through a reset in Seattle. He had to do it every few years at USC.

He may well be more comfortable with a quarterback who is happy to run his offense, just as much as he wants a coach to run his offense.

After all, the Seahawks won a Super Bowl while paying a quarterback $526,217. They invested money elsewhere on a loaded roster — spending more than any other team on their O-line and having so many pass rushers and defensive backs. The quarterback was young and willing to play within the scheme — with no expectations to win MVP awards or play a certain style.

If Carroll wants Russell Wilson to be his guy until he retires — he should be appointing a coordinator who wants to max out the $35m a year you are paying him. Otherwise he might as well get picks, draft a replacement or sign a veteran QB, invest the $35m on the O-line and defense and do things his way.

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  1. kevin mullen

    It’s looking like an eventual parting of ways, especially if Russ views himself in the “Tom Brady, Drew Brees” ilk. I can tell you this, he needs to learn to step into the pocket, and quit the “Fran Tarkenton” spin move he keeps doing.

    That said, how much draft picks could RW net? Even with a subpar 2nd half, I can’t imagine we couldn’t not get at least (2) 1st rounders???

    • BobbyK

      If you’re going to trade a QB you’d better get more for that than you traded to get a strong safety.

      • Glor

        Does anyone think that trade was worth it? More mismanagement is all that was. I mean, the philosophy that since we suck at drafting with our high picks we should instead just give them all away on another rental? How about you just trade down and get more picks instead, I mean even an idiot can select a decent player 5% of the time.

        • Silly Billy

          Mismanagement… or a bidding war with another team

    • LC Blaise

      I suspect they could get a couple of firsts from New England. Given how often Belichik trades away picks I don’t think he’d balk at that price tag, that said the second pick would probably be at the back of the first round. Given the present situation, perhaps the Eagles would be willing to trade Jalen Hurst and a third round pick for Jamal Adams. Those two deals would likely get Pete and Co. out of this salary cap/draft pick hole and put them closer to the early years of Wilson’s career. This of course assume Howie Roseman values Adams that high.

  2. Jeff M.

    The only thing that doesn’t make sense is that Schottenheimer *was* the offensive version of KNJ. He was brought in to be a yes-man and run what Pete wanted to run on offense and not challenge him at all (and Peteball was exactly what he had done at every other stop in his coaching career). The move to emphasize the pass at the start of this season didn’t come from Schottenheimer; it came from Russ.

    • Rob Staton

      I think it also came from Schotty.

      Thus — I think Schotty came in like you say, to run Pete’s offense. And he no longer wants to do it.

      • OP_Chillin

        That’s the thing I don’t get. 2018 was supposed to be Carroll reasserting control. Now he has to do it again after 2020? What is going on?

        • James Kupihea

          What’s going on is that this ship hasn’t been exactly stable since the super bowl loss…

  3. Jeremy Brewer

    As much as the cap hit would hurt, I could see a Daniel Jones and Berkeley type move for Russ. Maybe a 2nd too? If PC could get a big armed QB, and some extra talent and picks, they may bite. Your articles on the matter is logical to me. PC is going to do it his way. I’m not expecting a splashy new age OC signing.

    • BobbyK

      Jones fumbles like Dave Krieg did. No thanks.

  4. Robert

    How much do you think we could get for Russell in a trade realistically?

    • Rob Staton

      That’s a good question.

      I would assume, two firsts plus something else. Maybe two firsts and a second. Would need to be a team with multiple round ones such as New York or Miami.

      Might be able to get a player thrown in too but we’d have to be realistic about who.

      • Robert

        Then we would have to capitalize on those picks

      • OP_Chillin

        Unless they draft the next Herbert, they will be absolutely screwed if they trade Russ.

        You’d need to hit on a QB who can be 70% of Russ, field a top 5 defense, find an elite running game (from where?), and get lucky to win a SB.

        • Matt

          Hence, many of us saying “build around what you actually have.”

          Pete’s trying to recreate something that was based on 95% luck…yes, acquiring a HOF QB, CB, SS, MLB outside of R1 in the matter of a few drafts is not repeatable.

          • Matt

            **AND trading a 4th rounder for a generational/HOF RB.

            Consider all of that…and PC’s style won 1 Super Bowl. I keep going back to Margin of Error with PC – he doesn’t believe in that principle.

            • OP_Chillin

              Yes! Margin for error has been a huge theme with the Seahawks (or the lack thereof). They actually used to have a pretty big margin (on offense) when they were so talented on defense. Even still, they played a style where the games were close and one mistake could totally cost the game.

              Now, the Chiefs play a high margin for error style, usually. Mahomes can go out and throw 3 picks like he did against the dolphins but still throw for 460 yards on 11.6 YPA put up a bunch of points and win.

              • Matt


                I think the whole goal is maximizing margin of error. Likewise, I think it’s stupid to have the goal of “building an elite offense or defense.” You luck into something like that.

                With the current personnel – the goal should be “we have the seeds of a great offense and a good defense. Let’s find a way to make the offense more consistently great and let’s emphasize a turnover element on defense.”

                Pete wants to will into existence an Elite Defense + a Marshawn Lynch running game. As the saying goes, “wish in one hand; crap in the other – and see which fills up first.”

            • Chris

              ***AND signing both Avril and Bennett…

              • Matt

                LOL yep…So many moves that he will never replicate.

                Pete’s like the guy who won the PowerBall and spends all his money buying more PowerBall tickets. “I mean, I’ve already won it once – why can’t I do it again??”

                • Tyler Jorgensen

                  Excellent analogy.

        • Daniel

          If Russ goes, I’d like to see Marcus Mariota brought on board. He would be a low-risk signing with mid to high reward. 6’4, fast, throws a decent ball, high character guy. He has a year left on his contract for about $10 million. If the Raiders decide to cut him, they’d save $10 million with no dead money. He’d be perfect for 20-25 throws a game.

      • James Cr.

        The Jets actually make a ton of sense to me from both sides. Any chance at all the #2 pick would be in play?

        • Matt

          #2 has to be in play, otherwise you don’t have that conversation with the Jets. It would have to start with that.

          The Jets haven’t had a QB like RW in a loooooong time.

          • James Cr.

            That is what I am thinking, the Jets need a superstar to ignite the fanbase. Zach Wilson or Fields isnt going to do it.

            • Matt

              Yep…they need a bonafide star and honestly – they’d probably let Russ dictate a lot of things.

              • Simon McInnes

                Would Russ want to go to the Jets? There are a lot of ex-Jets on the roster to remind him what disorganised mess it has been there.

                • Rob Staton

                  I think he might prefer Miami

                  • Dave

                    Was thinking the same. Tua (if JS likes him), 2021 3rd overall, 2021 2nd rounder, 2022 1st or 2nd rounder.
                    Miami immediately becomes AFC East legit & Seattle has reasonable shot to stay good

                    • Rob Staton

                      No thanks on Tua

                  • SeaTown

                    Plus some interesting talk today out of Miami about unnamed Dolphin players not being sold on Tua. Get some picks and Tua from Miami. Move Russ now. Get it over with. That’s where it’s heading.

                    • Rob Staton

                      Get the picks. Leave Tua in Miami so they can trade him somewhere else.

                  • Scot04

                    If Miami; Possibly picks #3, 18 and Tua for Wilson.
                    If we can get them to add a 2022 3rd great. But I’m guessing the above would be max return.

                    • Rob Staton

                      No to Tua.

                      Can’t see JS being a fan either.

      • bmseattle

        Miami is intriguing.
        Pete probably loves Tua, too.

        • bmseattle

          oops… sorry. I posted before I saw all the Tua discussion.

        • Rob Staton

          I don’t think Pete or John will like Tua.

    • Matt

      I think a Jamal Adams like return is probably what it’s going to be. Simply substitute Late 1s for Early 1s with the same extra 3rd rounder.

      I don’t see any teams giving up more than that, in all honesty.

      And the Seahawks should take that deal. As Rob eloquently stated – Pete doesn’t need a Ferrari at QB and resources are capped – so it’s better to spend it elsewhere. Pete is trying to have his cake and eat it too.

      • BobbyK

        If I’m a team like the Bears I’d make a trade like that in a heartbeat. Bears go from middling to an NFC favorite.

        Trading Bruce Irvin, John Moffit, and Germain Ifedi for Russell Wilson. lol

        • BobbyK

          Trading Okung, ET, and Shaq Griffin for a franchise QB is still stupid, imo.

          • Matt

            Agreed…but it’s equally stupid to spend 20% of your cap space on a game manager who throws the occasional deep ball.

        • Matt

          I think Miami is the real sleeper. Flores is going into Year 3 and Tua is merely a game manager.

          Heck – get Tua, #3, and #18 and run with it. Tua can absolutely do what Pete wants. Grab Sewell at #3.

          • Robert

            I like that idea

            • Matt

              I sincerely think that may be the best option. Grab a QB with some experience but still young. Heck…I think I’d almost be willing to pass on #18 to grab their 2nd Rounder and maybe a 2nd the following year.

              Pete could trade up to grab Najee or still grab a Javonte. That’d jumpstart Pete Ball. I could actually get on board with that because at least the resources would better align with what he wants to do.

          • Chris Wood

            I don’t think Seattle would swap quarterbacks unless they thought he was their guy. Darnold isn’t it since they had ties to Josh Allen and I don’t think they were enamored with this last QB class.

            • Matt

              The only reason I bring it up is that it would allow for Seattle to grab a player that helps jumpstart what they want to do…Penei Sewell.

              Pete has to make a choice. He can’t just have the QB he wants without sacrificing cap space or picks. There is a trade off he has to make.

              • Matt

                I sound like a broken record – but Pete is really existing on the margins and it’s not sustainable. He’s not going to find another RW…not even in R1, most likely – let alone later in the draft.

                So again – he has a choice: play with your $35M QB and maximize his strengths or play Pete Ball and not win the way he wants because the resource allocation is all out of whack. OR – trade RW and gather the pieces that make sense to play the way he wants.

                • Chris Wood

                  I agree with the jump start approach, ie… sewell.

                  But JS or PC almost did make that choice by trading Wilson for Allen though. I think if they were/want to trade Wilson this offseason, they will have to view an upcoming quarterback this year in that same vein as a Mohomes or Allen ceiling.

                  • Matt

                    They probably would…but I’d contend that’s stupid because Pete wants to play a certain way and again, he can’t have his cake and eat it too.

                    I’m sure Pete would die to have Pat Mahomes be his QB and would love to limit him to 25 throws per game.

                    Again…I think PC lives in a la la land based primarily on a fluke 3 years of drafting HOF talent that’s not repeatable.

          • icb12

            If it went down like this..

            If Wilson is there at #3 you take him. Let him and Tua battle it out. Then you take either a WR or OL with 18, whichever is better. Probably Leatherwood or Darrisaw or maybe Little. Explore offensive weapons after that.

            If Wilson is gone #2, then at #3 you take Devonta Smith without hesitation and look at OL at #18 for sure. Then 2nd round pick seriously consider QB.

          • BobbyK

            What are we going to do when Tua and his skinny frame gets hurt and misses 4-6 games next season?

            Even if Russ is a game manager for three quarters, he’s pretty special late in games. The way Pete wants to play – there’s going to be plenty of games close late. That calls for some heroics.

            • Matt

              Oh I don’t disagree with anything you are saying.

              Again…Pete lives in fantasy land. He wants to play 2013 ball not realizing that the same QB he had then, costs $35M now which means he doesn’t have those other pieces.

              Pete needs to be realistic about what he has, in hand.

          • OP_Chillin

            I really don’t want to watch Tua at QB for the Seahawks. Forget about quality, he flat out isn’t fun to watch.

            • Matt

              Oh I don’t love him by any means. I’m simply trying to provide realistic options for this team and how Pete wants to play. Tua would absolutely not provide the spark that RW has but I think he would have less catastrophic stats. Sark speaks very highly of Tua’s intelligence.

              I joked in another comment – of course Pete would want Pat Mahomes to be the best 25 pass attempt QB.

              • OP_Chillin

                I get you man, it’s more a commentary on how depressing it would be to start over at QB. Tua’s had some pretty bad days though, essentially the same as what we were getting from Russ with lots of sacks and the offense doing nothing.

                • Matt

                  Totally agree…it’s frustrating that the Head Coach is only willing to make changes based on a bad trade and making sure he doesn’t look bad – ie Jamal Adams and scheming a bunch of cheap sacks for him.

  5. Dales

    Hi Rob – Excellent read as always and I agree we could be slowly watching a train wreck occur between RW’s camp and the Hawks.

    It seems the local media has differing views on what running the ball more means. KJR has been floating the idea that running the ball more includes quick passes and involving the running backs in the passing game more and not just “downhill” running. Sure, PC wants to rebalance the offense away from 60% of offensive plays being passing plays, but the bigger issue was not adapting to how teams defended the deep ball and game planning for getting the ball out of Russ’s hands quick (i.e. short passing). Looking forward to listening to the Podcast coming out soon.

  6. Ashish

    Rob, please don’t remind 4th and 1 punt team is ready 🙂 or cha mention run-run-pass-punt. But it’s coming.. like it or not. First time i feel, Russel may be traded if they get a good /avg deal since PC is our coach. I’m / was ready to have new coach rather than new QB.

    • IHeartTacoma

      run-run-delay of game-sack-punt

  7. Jonny

    Players (like coaches) that challenge Pete don’t stay long thereafter in Seattle. I agree that there is inevitably going to be a split here. And it doesn’t seem like Pete will be the one to go.

    I wonder what teams Russ would actually accept a trade to? And how does that match up with teams willing to give up market value in draft picks?

  8. hobro

    “Otherwise he might as well get picks, draft a replacement or sign a veteran QB, invest the $35m on the O-line and defense and do things his way.”

    Invest the *$22 million* on the O-line and defense and do things his way. Wilson’s departure would leave a $13 million cap hit in each of 2021, 2022 and 2023. And Daniel Jones has a cap hit of $7.2 million this year and $8.4 in 2022, so if he were swapped for Wilson the net cap benefit would be about $15 million/year. It’s not chump change but I can’t see it being life changing for the franchise.

    • Chris Wood

      I don’t know if you’ve seen interviews with Joe Judge the Giants HC, but he is not a coach Wilson could have his way with. Judge follows the Belichick views as a intimidator, not a player friendly coach.

    • Rob Staton

      Hobro — not sure where you are getting those numbers on the cap hits. If he’s traded pre June 1st they take on a bigger dead hit this year and then that’s it.

      • hobro

        Are you sure, Rob? The collective agreement is clear that the cap liability for signing bonuses that have not yet been accounted for stay with the original team: “… the Team Salary of the player’s new team will not include any portion of the signing bonus” (Section 6(b)(ii) – link below). That makes sense, because the bonus has already been paid.

        If RW were traded (or cut) prior to June 1, the entire unpaid amount of his signing bonus would accelerate into the current year. That’s what the OTC cap calculator shows for RW: a pre-June 1 trade would leave the Seahawks with a $39 cap hit this year.

        According to OTC, if they traded him post-June 1 they would incur cap hits of $13 million in each of 2021, 2022 and 2023. You could read that to mean that if they traded him in 2021, they would incur a $13 million hit in 2021 and only 2021, and similarly if they traded him in 2022 or 2023, but I don’t think that’s the correct interpretation. Look at the calculation for a post-June 1 cut. It also shows $13 million cap hits in 2021, 2022 and 2023, and in the case of a cut it’s absolutely clear that the Seahawks have a cap liability.

        source: https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/website/PDFs/CBA/March-15-2020-NFL-NFLPA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-Final-Executed-Copy.pdf page 110

        • hobro

          Sorry – I just read you comment carefully. We’re in agreement that the bonus would accelerate into 2021 if he were trade pre-June 1. But I don’t see how a $39 million cap this year would be manageable or helpful for the team.

          • Rob Staton

            Well I think the cap structure as we know it is finished.

            If New Orleans can go into 2021 $100m over the cap, then anyone can do anything.

        • Rob Staton

          Yes — that’s what I said. The dead hit is in full pre-June 1st.

          You can’t trade Russell Wilson in August (post-June 1st). You won’t be able to replace him. Thus you can’t spread the money out like that.

          • hobro

            Yes, Rob, I apologize for the confusion that my misreading of your comment created. It’s always a good idea to be clear what the other guy is saying in a debate.

            But teams have the option to designate up to two contracts as being “post-June 1”, even though the transaction occurs before then. This means the Seahawks could trade Wilson before the draft but take the cap hit over three years. I just can’t see how giving up $39 million in cap space, whether as a lump sum or amortized over three years, would be helpful.

            I wouldn’t assume the cap is dead. The Saints are currently forecast by OTC to be $99 million over in the 2021 league year, but there is a path, albeit painful, for them to be in compliance. If the league judges it to be too disruptive for teams to deal with the currently envisioned 2021 cap, it is far more likely in my opinion that they will deal with it by borrowing money from future years than it is that they will tell teams not to worry about it.

            • Rob Staton

              No — the rules specify you cannot designate a player as a post-June 1st trade.

              They could cut Wilson and designate him as a post-June 1st cut.

              You can’t designate post-June 1st trades.

  9. Jace

    That last paragraph perfectly describes the current situation. Is it really worth it to pay Russ that much money to turn back into a game manager? And then use his skills to make plays and ‘win’ the game in the 4th quarter?

  10. BobbyK

    I can handle trading Russ to the Jets for a pair of second round picks due to the fact that they have the 2nd overall pick. If they don’t like Wilson at #2 – they could trade down and try to accumulate a haul of picks for now and the future.

    Maybe Andy Dalton could/would be the game manager next year.

    • BobbyK

      Pair of 1s, not 2s.

      • Chris Wood

        I like this approach too, I could see them trade down quit easily and pick up Mac Jones later in the 1st or early 2nd (where ever he seems placed)

        He’s not flashy but he’s super accurate and fit in well with Alabama’s system.

        • Volume12

          Davis Mills. Jones IMO would be plan B.

          • Chris Wood

            Really? May I ask why? I don’t watch much CFB so I’m only going off of highlights.

            Jones has played in the “big games”. Granted he had Saban, Najee, and Devonta. But he looked pretty well poised and had great accuracy.

            • Volume12

              Jones is the big armed, competitive, game manager that Pete would probably like. I agree about that.

              Mills has fantastic size, can throw from the pocket or on the run, can make the big throws downfield, can make throws w/ touch & accuracy. Did not have the offensive skill players around him. If there is a combine, I think he’ll rise like a Mahomes or Allen.

            • Volume12

              And I think even though Jones probably lacks athleticism, he’s being overlooked in this class w/o a doubt.

              • Chris Wood

                I guess you have to weigh level of competition and production with each guy.

                I just wonder what made Mahomes and Allen appeal so much to JS, neither was touted as the number 1pick. I wonder what he saw and I hope he continues to see.

                • Matt

                  Mobile with great arms who played on teams that weren’t juggernauts. Remember, RW had to carry NC State for 3 years.

                  That would be my guess to their appeal. Also, I’m sure there was an element of “tehese guys are clearly undervalued because of scheme or school.” The big knock on Mahomes was Air Raid and risk taker. For Allen, it was small school and accuracy.

    • Trevor

      The Jetsnext two #1s, a 2nd and Sam Darnold?

      • Rob Staton

        No that’s too much

  11. Marcus


    Thank you for what you do. You consistently tackle challenging, relevant topics without ever resorting to click bait or sensationalism. Wether it’s analysis, commentary, or speculation, your work is always rooted in sound logic and a passion for the team.

    That said, I’m curious to know your thoughts on a couple of things if you have the time.

    Do you think irreconcilable differences between PC and RW would spur ownership (Jody Allen, etc.) to get involved? And if the answer is yes, who’s side do you think she would land on – particularly, if a key goal is to keep potential buyers interested in the team?

  12. L80

    I posted in the Rams loss thread I was in the dump Schotty camp. Kinda glad they did, but not happy hearing PC talking like this is 2013.

    It’s great they re-upped JS, however when we look at the state of the team (FA, Cap, Draft) it looks abysmal.

    Couple that with zero playoff success and there are way more questions than answers.

    Basically they fired Bevell, and hired Bevel 2.0. So we had a little success but wasted 3 years of a franchise QB……We don’t even know the input of the OC vs. PC’s decisions. That is also maddening..

    This whole last few years had good intentions but just seems empty especially looking forward except for coach and GM.

    I decided to step way back but I wanted to say, I appreciate a forum where I can say my little piece without being torn to shreds for the way I feel and I once again thank Rob for that,

  13. El Cavito

    I don’t mind the idea of Russ to Miami for Tua and picks. Tua has a little more pep in his step than does Russ at this point. If “Pete Ball” is the plan, then use whatever the additional pics are to pad the O-Line and RB position.

    • Matt

      Yep. Funny enough – I think while many of us disagree with Pete’s approach; we would be much more inclined to get on board if he actually took the steps to get the players to run that style as a best as possible.

      That’s where the frustration comes in – square peg, round hole. I don’t want them to play run first, trade RW, etc…BUT if they do – then do it right. Get a stud RB. Build that OL. Get that defense to great, not just good.

      And most importantly, don’t pay your QB $35M to be a care taker. That’s just dumb.

    • Rob Staton

      Hard pass on Tua

  14. Mo'hawx

    All very good points Rob. I have been reading your stuff daily for years and appreciate your perspectives. Well done!

    The hawks averaged a 60-40% split pass to run this year as it ended up. It’s evident they struggled to adapt the offense as they did with the defense throughout the year. I am no expert, but game plans are developed based on many factors and seem like they must be schemed from week to week. I saw the struggle lie with scheming to get playmakers involved early and play to their strengths. For example, Alabama destroyed OSU and lit the world on fire scheming to get the ball into their play maker’s hands, Smith & Harris and look how that turned out. What is the point of drafting specific talent, size and football character guys if the conditions aren’t set for them to succeed and contribute? You know, you assess and evaluate players every year and identify which players based on their attributes and traits are fits into Seattle’s schemes. It begs the question, has Pete seen his team lose what he thinks is there identity, therefore, doesn’t allow the ability to use the players they specifically drafted for a scheme that never emerged?

  15. James Z

    It appears that if PeteBall is on the agenda for next year and RW is still under center, it will definitely be RW last year. I’m not sure how all of that plays out with RW’s contract and dead money hits. While RW won’t exhibit the classic disgruntled nature of other high profile athletes, it will show up in his play on the field. I’m already NOT looking forward to a year in which their is a dyed-in-the-wool head coach doing it his way and a passive aggressive QB wanting something better but handcuffed to do anything about it in a system that does not play to his strengths.

    • Matt

      I will add…it will also affect DK, in a big, big way. DK is not going to sit idly by while the team limps into the playoffs and he’s catching 60 balls a year. No chance that sits well.

      My simple request is that if Pete wants to go this route – go all in. Don’t put this thing together with chewed bubblegum and paper clips – sell out to get what he needs to make it work because I won’t be able to handle watching RW go back to game manager while DK is going 4-6 for 57 yards a game.

  16. Gohawks5151

    Doubling down is a term used a lot lately. I assume many read it as all run, all the time. But when Pete talks about returning to the run could he not be talking about 2019? The year where we were a few injuries away from beating GB and having round 3 with SF to go to the Superbowl? A year where Russ still threw for 31 TDS and 4100 yrds and was in the MVP conversation until HE seemed to fade late in the year. The fade did seem in part to be the decimation of the run game as well.

    I am as nervous as the rest but a slight rewind would not spell gloom and doom.

    • Matt

      Here’s the rebuttal…the style that Pete wants will (and has) inevitably fallen short because the resources are not properly allocated to get the personnel commensurate with what’s needed to succeed. That’s really the crux of the problem.

      Pete Ball, while I don’t agree with it, is fine assuming he has the right personnel. He doesn’t have that. If Pete can’t get RW to take a $34.5M paycut and convince him to be a game manager, then we will continue to see the predictable failures.

      And I don’t like the “injury” argument. Every team deals with injuires – it’s a physical sport. I’m wholly willing to give the injury pass if your QB isn’t playing. Otherwise, business as usual. Packers lost their LT for the playoffs. A lot of examples of teams dealing with that.

    • Rob Staton

      Doubling down is nothing to do with the run. It’s used in reference to Pete’s total and utter control of every aspect of the team with no control ceded whatsoever.

      • Ok

        Sign me up for a running game like SFs! Running isnt the problem, Pete the problem.

  17. John_s

    If you’re looking at the QB’s in the NFL that fits what Pete wants to do is the Tennessee Titans version of Marcus Mariota. He’s a game manager who takes care of the ball.

    He was pretty good in his one game in relief of Derek Carr, but the most impressive thing is that he still has his running ability. He kept the ball quite a few times on the read option. Overall, he looked healthy and had zip on his passes. He would fit with returning to a style of running that Pete prefers.

    He’s under contract with Las Vegas for 2021 @ $10mil. Las Vegas will have to make a decision regarding Carr, releasing him frees up $19 mil. If they decide to keep Carr, then Mariota would most certainly be available.

    In theory if you can get #2, #34 and 2022 #1 for Russ you have to do it.

    Swap your natural 2nd for LA’s 3rd or 4th + Mariota
    Draft Sewell or trade the pick to Det/Car for their 1 and 4 + 2022 1st and take BPA. This sets your up with either Sewell, #34, 3/4, natural 4 or #6/7, #34, 3/4, natural 4 + 4.

    If you really want to get crazy, you call Cleveland and see what they want for Kareem Hunt who makes $5mil.

  18. Blitzy the Clown

    FWIW I’m very intrigued by Kellen Mond. Watched a couple of TAMU games this year, including the Orange Bowl and color me impressed. I’d like to see what he could do in Carroll’s scheme.

    I love Russell Wilson. He’s clearly the best QB in Seahawks history. But if we aren’t going to scheme for him, then what’s the point of paying him $35m per year? Better off trading him for some high picks, investing those picks in OL, RB, WR and installing a point guard QB to run Carroll’s offense.

    Either that or move on from Carroll. And that obviously isn’t happening.

    • TomLPDX

      TAMU had some amazing weapons on offense this year. Our TE, Wydermyer (will be a JR next year) is my favorite player but we also had 2 excellent tailbacks (Ainias Smith, Isaiah Spiller, both JRs next year) and the receivers as a group were all good. To top it off, the offense line (known as the maroon goons) were probably one of the best in the SEC this year. Unfortunately the Goons were mostly SRs and will be gone next year.

      Mond was a solid QB this year and fairly accurate with a strong arm, could run and stood tall in the pocket and released just when he would get nailed, proving his toughness and throwing into tight coverage. I’ve been harsh about Kellen because he drove me crazy in the early years with his dumb moments but he has definitely grown as a player each year as those moments are fewer and fewer. Rob likes to comp him a little bit to Dak Prescott, which is fair, but I think Kellen is more mobile than Dak is but Dak has a more polished arm…perhaps Kellen will continue to develop that part of his game and get even better.

  19. Big Mike

    Real briefly I’d like to say something about 710 ESPN in Seattle. Someone mentioned on the previous thread that O’Neil was defending Pete all morning which is no surprise from the things I’ve read here about his fawning all over Pete on several occasions. However, it isn’t just him at that station. Yesterday I was driving through Tri-Cities on my way back from Spokane to my home in Vancouver (WA not BC). This was before the news about Schotty came to light so that wasn’t dominating the convo, the new contract for JS was.

    The guys on air at the time were Wyman and some guy named Bob. They were touting JS for not re-signing Clowney in the offseason but of course made no mention that even if you can say that was right in hindsight, the d-line was not in a good space. Regardless, I texted in to them and said that while JS could be lauded for not signing Clowney, the trade for Adams was an absolute and unmitigated disaster because they “paid an enormous price for a guy that is an obvious injury risk, a poor scheme fit and a liability in coverage…….in my opinion, Adams should be traded this offseason for whatever can be recouped rather than paying him in the 18 million per year range it appears that will be the benchmark for him”.

    My text was as much me venting as anything but much to my surprise they read it on the air and used it as an example of “fan overreaction” with no discussion of the role or cost or injury history of Jamal Adams. At that point I texted them back and asked them how my text could be an overreaction considering he missed 4 games and was limited in several others due to injury, more importantly was the 45th rated safety per PFF and rated over 100th by PFF in coverage. I also mentioned that I’d really appreciate it if they’d comment on those FACTS on air. Needless to say, they did not nor did they respond back to me via text. Bottom line guys, if you’re listening to 710 (I don’t get it down here) you’re listening to nothing more than the mouthpiece for the team with apparently no critical thinking as it relates to how it is run or how players perform.

    • Matt

      710 is really falling from grace lately. Once Brock and Salk went off air – it went downhill.

      I think Jake Heaps is EXCELLENT when not defending RW. He’s really bad when he acts as the praetorian guard.

      I like Wyman and think he offers great insight, but I think in the current climate, he definitely errs on the side of not upsetting the apple cart.

      Danny is basically PC’s Personal PR – it’s pathetic.

      The best voice on radio in Seattle is Hugh Millen – 710 would be wise to try to steal him away and give him his own show. He’s going to rub a lot of rose-colored glass fans, but I think he would be a great offset to the DPRK-like adulation with the other shows.

      • Big Mike

        Only thing about Millen that I’ve heard is that he was very anti-RW for the longest time which is horseshit too. We all see what Russ could be with the right team and system (Sean Payton’s in NO imo). You tell me if that’s legit Matt cuz like I said, I don’t live in the Seattle area.

        • Matt

          Millen was very anti-RW for the first 2 years but has definitely come around – that is absolutely true. He was unfairly critical of him earlier on in his career and I think a lot of it had to do (unfairly) with Flynn being very much a Hugh Millen (career backup getting his chance) guy. Again, he was unfair and would never dispute that.

          I think Millen is one of the few voices who a) actually knows the game and b) is willing to say the things others won’t. Recently he made a comment about RW’s struggle with reading basic concepts – I think that’s fair and I don’t think any other radio personality would have had the guts to say it.

          Millen is not perfect, at all. He’s an old stubborn guy – but I appreciate his knowledge and willingness to not hold back.

          • Paul Cook

            Hugh Millen was initially wary of RW mostly because of his height. He thought he would suffer from not being able to consistently get passes over the line.

    • Chris b

      Dave Wyman has forgotten more about football than any of us will ever know.

      • Rob Staton

        He’s also employed by the team in fairness and if I were him I’d be choosing my words carefully too

        • Matt

          Dave’s great but there is definitely an element of hostage taking on his takes…it’s like you know exactly where he’s going and then he pulls back into, “North Korea has treated me very well. Stop asking about it.” LOL.

      • TomLPDX

        That doesn’t really mean anything though, Chris. I love Wyman and watch his FB101 videos and read his stuff but he is a Seahawk homer and will defend the team to the bitter end.

      • James Z

        Wyman also indulges in homerism that renders his knowledge parochial. He’s a team guy all the way. Brock Huard does a much better job of keeping it ‘honest’ and uses his knowledge of the game much more objectively when commenting of the Seahawks.

        • TomLPDX

          I really like Brock. Glad he is getting into the national scene.

        • OP_Chillin

          Brock keeps it about as real as one can while remaining polite and gracious.

  20. Hawks_Gui

    Clemsons OC also drawing interest, aside from pep hamilton


    • Rob Staton

      Josina said he ‘may’ draw interest, not that he is.

      Good old JA.

      • Hawks_Gui

        LOL josina don’t stop kkkkkk

        • TomLPDX

          She heard it on the grapevine…

    • cha

      Sounds like she read the LaCanfora piece and decided to call him her source.

      If she had anything she’d make sure we knew she talked on the phone.

  21. MyChestIsBeastMode

    If Pete wants to run, run, pass then yes, Russ should not be the QB. If we were to trade him away, my bet is that we use those picks to bolster the D line and positions other than QB. Then we sign a free agent QB.

    FA QBs 2021:

    Dak Prescott – good but too expensive
    Philip Rivers – decent but OLD
    Ryan Fitzpatrick – see ^^ + erratic

    Maybe worth a look:
    Jameis Winston: Has the arm, but a TO machine
    Mitchell Trubisky: probably remains a Bear. Regardless, meh
    RG III: Not worth it IMHO
    Andy Dalton: Not exciting but can make most throws
    Cam Newton: eff that flag pulling monster (I kid)

    Most likely (imo):
    Tyrod Taylor: Team guy, can manage and dazzle at times
    *Jacoby Brissett*: Rumors were we wanted him a while back and now he’s available and can be had on a team friendly deal. He’d be my pick if RW’s ship sails away.

    Interested to hear your thoughts Rob and others?

    • Mick

      I don’t think any of these names is an option. Should Russ go, which I still hope will not happen, I’d rather have a younger QB or a rookie.

      • TomLPDX

        I tend to agree with you Mick. I’d rather we bring in a good draft pick and get a better backup than Smith.

  22. Trevor

    Russ to the Jets for #2 and the 3rd this year + next years s #1 and Sam Darnold.

    I think Darnold might thrive as a game manager on a run heavy team till the Hawks find their QB of the future. It would give the Jets a true star and still leave them tons of draft capital and cap space to add weapons for Russ.

    • Seaj253

      Trevor, I’ve thought this too and I think it’s a trade both sides would consider. However, I’m not sure Russ would waive his no trade clause for this. I know all of the New York speculation that was coming from 3’s camp last offseason but that had to be to the Giants ha. The Jets are such a train wreck, but hey, maybe Ciara would force the issue.

      I’m not ready to give up on Sam Darnold. I was impressed with him in college and I think there have been 3 QB’s that have really caught Schneider’s eye over the last several years with Darnold being one of them (Mahomes and Allen the others).

      • Trevor

        Grest point about JS seeming to really like him coming out and I agree in the right situation I think Darnold has potential.

    • Bertelli

      Why not just go for the #1 pick? Wilson to JAX for their two #1 picks this year. Take Lawrence and pay him on the cheap for 5 years or trade the pick for more picks. I see they’re hiring Urban Meyer, who wouldn’t want to start with a Russ at QB. Just my two cents.

      • Rob Staton

        Jacksonville has hit the jackpot with Lawrence.

        There is 0% of them even picking up the phone.

        • Bertelli

          You’re right, I just hadn’t seen that scenario brought up before. Lawrence would probably be wasting his talent in Pete’s offense anyway. If they are going to move him, I hope it’s to an AFC team that we don’t have to face in the near future. You’re spot on with guys like Tua and Darnold, I wouldn’t want them, I’d want the picks and try and sign someone like a Tayson Hill, he seems like a perfect Pete guy. Use the additional picks for Def and OL and I think we could be on to something. Thanks for responding.

  23. DC

    Feel for Schotty. Took this offense and set all kinds of franchise records, and when he had free reign RW was on pace to set NFL records and was the clear MVP. Once Pete took re-established control of what he wanted on offense is when the offense really sputtered.

    I think Schotty did a great job. Could he have done better and made more adjustments in the 2nd half of the season? Of course…but when you have a HC demanding to throw downfield against coverages that negate that, you only have so many options.

    Hopefully he’ll catch on somewhere else quick.

    • Mick

      Not trying to defend Pete here at any cost, but why do you think he had to mix up in the first place? The offense started coughing. I don’t know if this is the right word, but we stopped playing smart. The touchdowns with Falcons were well designed football. From there we went downhill.

      • TomLPDX

        I think we started playing desperate. D wasn’t doing it’s job and Russ had to try to get as many points/game as he could so he started forcing it. It was a vicious cycle. Schotty’s issue was he wasn’t adjusting and counteracting the new schemes teams were throwing at him.

        • DC

          I think some of RW’s limitations played into as well, difficulty getting throwing lanes over the middle of the field really limits what he can do when stuff of the top is taken away.

      • Daniel

        I’m of the opinion that we just simply failed to consistently establish the run well enough to make play actions passes as effective as they could have been. Week after week for the second half of the season, Pete commented on how he wanted to see more runs mixed into the play calling. Because of incomplete passes on early downs, sacks, and penalties, Seattle was towards the top of the league in 3rd and 10+ situations. Being in that situation almost always dictates a pass. I’d rather have 3rd and 4 with a wide open playbook.

        I liked Shotty, but he deserved to be fired for the game plan and lack of adjustments in the playoff game alone. Pete isn’t going anywhere, and they aren’t going to cut Wilson. Something was going to give.

  24. Hoggs41

    If it comes down to choosing your head coach or your franchise QB its bye bye Pete. The players always gets chosen over the coach.

  25. Chris b

    If pete would have taken control of the offense we would have run the ball more.

    • Rob Staton

      He took control.

  26. Chris b

    That didn’t look like pete ball to me.

    • Rob Staton

      He took control.

      If you’re denying that, then you’re trying too hard.

      It’s not just about ‘running’.

  27. Chris b

    Im not saying he didn’t meddle some but I know what it looks like when pete takes over just look at the 3rd game of 2018 and the rest of the season.

    • Matt

      You’re confusing play calling with putting the reigns on Schotty/RW. It’s quite clear that there was a mandate to play risk-free after the rash of turnovers. Your passing game is going to inevitably go to shite if the primary focus is “don’t turn it over.”

      RW played terribly, but there was clearly an element of timidity with pulling the trigger. That goes back to PC.

      • Chris b

        So you think calling deep shots constantly is pete telling schotty to dial it back?

        • Rob Staton

          I know I heard Pete say that was his plan against LA when he spoke after.

          • Daniel

            Pete contradicts himself. Part of the problem is that at times he is more of a politician than he is a coach.

        • DC

          Pete stated he wanted to throw it deep. They faced more coverage 2 defense in the 2nd half which is not a defense you throw it deep against.

        • Matt

          “I want you to hit home runs but you better not strike out.”

          So yea…Pete wanted the big plays without the risk of actually making those big plays.

  28. Chris b

    Shotty made the same mistake bevel did and thats trying to throw the ball all over the yard with a uncomplicated offense. It works for a while but its easy to figure out.

    • Rob Staton

      Stop posting the same thing over and over again as new comments and ignoring the responses.

      • Chris b

        Im not ignoring the responses im stating my opinion just like you are. I apologize if im trying to bring a different point of view into the discussion.

        • Magmatizer

          In the case that the offense was made to be “uncomplicated,” wouldn’t that also be conducive to the mantra of “Don’t turn the ball over?” The offense being simplified makes it easier to assess open reads and prevent mistakes from being made. Seems like a Pete-ball design to my eye to dial back the spread looks and more complex route combinations in favor of deep shots and extra pass protectors. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work when defenses are making a concerted effort to neutralize those.

        • Rob Staton

          You’re not though. You are spamming the comments section by posting separate individual statements that are all the same.

          Make the point once then discuss. You don’t need to post the same thing worded differently eight times.

  29. DC

    From Joe Fann’s twitter

    Pete Carroll said he was “fighting the (play) call” on the 4th-and-1 that resulted in a false start. That feels pretty notable to me.

    Pretty sure Schotty doesn’t want a HC meddling in his play calling anymore

    • Brett

      Given Schotty’s track record before the Seahawks, I think we should all want somebody meddling with his play calling.

      • DC

        And what about his record with the Hawks? Set franchise records and had Russ on the path for MVP when he got to open it up.

        • Daniel

          Yes, but our 12-4 team didn’t look like a 12-4 team for much of the season. We were ATROCIOUS on 3rd down conversions all season. I feel like we owe the non-playoff teams an apology for our playoff showing. We didn’t look like we belonged.

  30. dm594

    If I’m Metcalf and offered an extension, i’m not taking the offer. why would a superstar *in the making* WR want to stay with a run first team when he could go to a KC, GB, BAl, and set NFL records and become the top tier WR in the NFL with a stud QB and a team that wants to throw the ball, and is exceptionally good at it.

    • TomLPDX

      I honestly don’t think we can afford DK anyway when his contract comes up.

    • Malc from PO

      Rob has said why when talking about Wilson: if you are winning Super Bowls. Otherwise, boring football that gets you dumped out of the playoffs the first time you meet a good team isn’t going to cut it

  31. Denver Hawker

    Russ will not be traded this year. Full stop. Ken Florio (Russ agent’s mouthpiece) said as much. He’ll give it a year to survey the landscape. There will need to be progress though and not regression. The available cap and draft picks will make it hard to progress. I think there’s at least a 50% chance he requests a trade this time next year.

    As for this season, the only solution I see for JS is to extend/restructure some contracts to free up cap. Maybe he can trade back in the draft to grab another pick, but this will be a year to live with what they have.

    We can fantasize about trading Russ or Jamal for picks, but I haven’t seen any evidence this organization is willing to swallow their pride and do the right thing. They’ve made their bed this year and will sleep in it.

    • Mo'hawx

      Keep in mind, picks are great, but are not a guaranteed hit. Over the past several years, aside from last year, the drafts of JS/PC have been meh.

    • Rob Staton

      But people assume Wilson won’t be traded due to the dead hit.

      And then in the next segment they’ll talk about Matt Ryan or Carson Wentz being traded, by teams in much worse financial ruin than Seattle relating to the cap.

      Wilson’s dead hit — $39m
      Ryan’s dead hit — $49.9m
      Wentz’s dead hit — $59.2m

      So if Ryan & Wentz can be dealt, so can Wilson.

      • Pran

        31 other franchises will readily trade for Russ. He is MVP caliber with a right coach and system. Cap can always be worked out by including other players in the deal.

        • Rob Staton


          I think Kansas City are pretty set TBH.

          • CHaquesFan

            probably 30 because i doubt GB trades Rodgers for Wilson

            • teejmo

              Jacksonville with Lawrence… Bengals with Burrow… Chargers with Herbert… Lamar in Baltimore… Allen in Buffalo… maybe Cardinals with Kyler…

              And let’s face it: after letting Russ cook for awhile, some meals were starting to get burned.

      • Denver Hawker

        I’m not in the camp that sees the dead money as prohibitive to a trade.

        There are few teams with the needed draft capital to make the trade AND that he would approve with his no trade clause.

        I also don’t think he’s ready to pull the plug yet. He has weapons a LT he trusts and very likely still takes his leadership role with the young players seriously. He’s not going to abandon ship yet to roll the dice somewhere else with a whole new cast of characters and culture. However, if there is regression, that’ll change his outlook considerably I’m sure.

        • Rob Staton

          The evidence that we have to work with is he issued an ultimatum on the way the offense needed to be run this year. And now Carroll is doing everything in his power to run the opposite of what Wilson demanded.

          Meanwhile a reporter connected to Wilson’s agent keeps suggesting he will be traded eventually.

          That’s all we have to work off.

          • Denver Hawker

            And I don’t disagree there’s a better than zero chance that he’s traded before he’s extended for all the reasons you’ve brought up. I just have a hard time believing it happens in the next 4 months.

      • Jordan E

        Matt Ryan is washed and its not certain that Wentz will be traded. Both have played far below Russell Wilson’s level as well the past few years… If not for the last half of the season Wilson was regarded as a top 3-5 QB this past 3 years or so… And on that note- Falcons are definitely in a hole and will be in a bigger one if Ryan is traded. Eagles are in cap hell and at least have a Jalen Hurts as a backup. Personally, I think Wentz will stay because of his contract and upside as Peterson was the one to get the boot.

        • Rob Staton

          That’s not the point though is it? We’re not talking about how they’ve performed or their age.

          I’m simply pointing out that while people say the Seahawks can’t move Wilson due to his dead hit — well the Falcons and Eagles are deep, deep in the red for the cap in 2021 and people seem to think they can move Ryan and Wentz. So if those two players can be moved, then Seattle can do whatever they want.

  32. Brik

    I think Russel is severely limited, he’s not able to step up in the pocket and throw anywhere, especially over the middle. I would be happy if they planned for the future without him. My favorite idea is trading him for Deshaun Watson, but that would cost a lot.

    • BobbyK

      If you were Russ and had a no-trade clause is there any way you’d accept a trade to the Texans? Their team sucks, isn’t in a market like Dallas or New York, and have no draft picks to actually get better.

      • Brik

        Russell already has a super bowl, and if he wants to be considered the best it would look good taking a bottom team to the top. Texans are going in a new direction. If they give Russell the the reigns he might be all for it. They have young talent, and could entice some free agents like Juju.

        • BobbyK

          Would you want Houston if you were him? No draft picks. Not a lot of talent. They even have a franchise QB and ended up the 3rd worst team in the NFL and some of their key guys are set for free agency.

          • Brik

            They have a pro bowl level LT who should have a lot of years left. They DO have talent on that side of the ball, which is why they had a top 5 passing offense led by Deshaun. If they get better at running the ball they turn into a contender. That’s what Russel wants right? He wants to throw the ball, and that is where it can happen.

            • BobbyK

              People complain about Russ because he makes $35 million per year. Just because they have a Pro Bowl LT doesn’t mean it’s a good value. They’re paying him $22 million per season. That’s almost $60 million for a QB and LT. Their best deep threat is Will Fuller. He’s a free agent. They aren’t going to have a lot of room in FA when they’ve got Wilson/Tunsil taking almost a third of the cap between them and they have have limited draft picks to get those all-important players on rookie contracts. They’re screwed, imo.

              • BobbyK

                Throw in Brandin Cooks making over $16 million per year and where do they have any money?

                • Brik

                  I thought this was about whether or not Russel would go there? He obviously thinks he’s good enough to elevate any team he went to. I personally don’t care about what’s good for the Texans. If we can convince Russel, and since Deshaun wants out of Houston, we would be golden. The only problem is the dead money. Like everyone said, it would have to wait a year. Those big contracts will look better, and the Texans situation could look a lot better after a season. Things change fast.

      • Daniel

        Maybe a trade with the Patriots or the Saints? Perhaps he would agree to one of those scenarios.

        • Big Mike

          If he’;s smart, he jumps at the chance to go to New Orleans

        • Brik

          In my thinking we’re getting a QB who we can win with. The only guy from either of those teams that I would be interested in is Taysom Hill. I don’t see it with the Pats, Russel would be in the same scenario he’s in now. Definitely possible, especially if Brees looks bad next year and Hill is underwhelming. That would also mean Hill is only a stopgap and we need to draft someone. Saints usually picking in the bottom of the first.

  33. Paul Cook

    “They are not coming here to be overruled on fourth and 1…” That made me chuckle.

    I think you and Jason La Confora have it about right. I never thought I’d say this, but I’d be open to moving on from RW now. Yes, we’d take a CAP hit next year, but why delay what appears to be the inevitable? It’s unequivocally the PC show now and for some time to come. No use arguing that now. You might as well make it best work that way now. Let’s get some draft picks for Wilson, find some vet QB to take the reins for awhile, and move forward from there.

    Anyway…this is prime Hawks soap opera now. LOL

  34. BobbyK

    Patrick Mahomes might win his second Super Bowl in a row. Nice to see the Chiefs finally win a Super Bowl (since beating the Vikings in SB IV) on his rookie contract. If I’m a Chiefs fan, I’m jacked to have had him sign that great big deal. Good things generally cost money.

    I hear many complaining about RW making $35 million per year. I have no problem with a QB making that much. It’s as if the reason the team sucks is because of the franchise QB. Wilson has been a franchise QB for a long time and is still at a good age. That being said, he was pretty awful the last few months. I don’t deny that.

    I remember this team since 1983 and QBs don’t grow on trees. Look at the Bears and teams that have historically crap at QB in our lifetimes. I don’t want to be one of them again.

    I don’t hear any Packers fans complaining that Rodgers makes $33 million. They seem to have put a team capable of winning a Super Bowl together, even though some Packers fans said Rodgers was washed up last year.

    The reason the Seahawks aren’t still playing has more to do with Carroll/Schneider doing more stupid things during this “reset” than good things. For every crap Adams trade; there’s the awesome Dunlap trade. But their mistakes have been more than not (opposite of 2010-2012 drafts). Not taking TJ Watt for Malik McDowell not only wasted their first pick that year, but it forced them to trade away a 2 the next year for Sheldon Richardson. Instead of their poster boy at RB like Chubb, they chose Penny. Those two moves right there have a hell of a lot more to do with the Seahawks sucking than a QB making $35 million.

    I worry about trading RW. Even if he’s the ultimate game manager for 3 quarters, I know he can turn it on when he needs to (usually, not last Saturday). But, does Russ want to be here? That’s a hard question to answer. As much as I want him here – I don’t know if I’d want to be in Seattle if I was him either for stone age football. For the record, I have no problem with stone age football if they greatly improve the OL and get a you stud RB (to go along with others), too. Stone age football is really stupid if you don’t have the talent for it, but I do think you can win a Super Bowl with it if the OL dominates and your RBs are good (not frickin’ Carlos Hyde good or bums like Dallas).

    • Rohan Raman

      Rodgers doesn’t make $33 million. He makes $25 million. When compared to Russ, that extra 10 million is very nice when it comes to paying O-Line guys (which, along with Davante Adams becoming essentially unguardable, is a pretty big part of their success and why they have a good shot at winning a SB this year). All in all, the $10 million difference is a significant reason why most Packers fans don’t have any issues with Rodgers’ contract.

      That being said, I agree with everything else you’ve said. QB purgatory is not a fun place to be in.

      • BobbyK

        Rodgers average salary is $33.5 million. Here’s the proof:

        As we know, Wilson averages $35 million.

        That’s only $1.5 million difference per season. This isn’t much when you consider a bum like Cedric Ogbuehi made $2.5 million this past year.

        • Rohan Raman

          That is my bad.

          I accidentally misread this CBS article about a Rodgers trade that could happen once Love is ready to play: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-heres-when-the-packers-should-trade-aaron-rodgers-based-on-how-his-contract-is-structured/

          You are correct. They have definitely done a better job of spending on the O-Line than we have.
          What is really annoying is also the amount of dead money the Seahawks have tied up (15 million at the moment per OTC). Packers only have 6 million. 9 million in cap space is hardly pennies.

          It will be interesting to see how the Packers manage their 2021 cap situation, as they are currently 22 million over the cap. Hardly impossible to manage, but will be interesting.

          • BobbyK

            No doubt. That is definite mismanagement from our front office/Pete. It’s like getting stuffed on 4th and 2 for no points on the 25 yard line instead of taking the 3 points early in the game. If that makes sense.

  35. Brett

    I can’t roll my eyes hard enough at using Mike Tomlin and the Stealers as some kind of model for these types of resets. One conference championship appearance in 10 years, two losses in the wildcard round, and two losses in the division round. With an absolutely stacked defense for 3 of those years and an absolutely stacked offense for 3+ on the other side.

    It seems like this year its a roll of the dice wither we get an article with glowing praise about Pete and his culture building or he’s a stubborn geezer who can’t do anything right. Its exhausting.

    • Rob Staton

      And I can’t roll my eyes hard enough at someone who thinks me using a Mike Tomlin quote is in any way whatsoever ‘using him as a model for a reset’.

      The point is he’s talking about making changes that clearly need to be made in Pittsburgh. Carroll thinks they’ve just had an excellent season and everything is great.

      • Brik

        To be fair, I think Carrol also said he was keeping Schotty the day before they parted ways. The days of them being up front and honest about everything might be over. I hope he realizes they need change, and just doesn’t want to rattle the fans.

        • Rob Staton

          I don’t think it’s that at all. Carroll was very open in his press conference.

          It’s simply he didn’t anticipate Schotty not wanting to run his offense any more.

          • Austin Slater

            Rob is dead on here and it’s obvious. Pete had no intention of firing Schott and he seemed fairly transparent about it in the presser the day before. Schott saw what a thumb controlled offense looked like in the second half didn’t like that and probably had some ideas on how to fix it and Pete is stuck on his stubborn approach.

            Look it’s hard at 70 to completely change your way of thinking and take on new ideas and also put your trust in someone else with only a couple of years left to coach. Sadly it will be to his demise and for Seahawks fans its likely going to take your team down with it when you lose RW and DK and someone has to come in and do a complete reset.

  36. Jordan E

    I’ll stand by this but I think the concern over running the ball more is overblown. ARod had a career resurgence and has an amazing running game and superstar RBs. McVay offense based on run. N.O. offense also has amazing running game.

    Schotty and Wilson were definitely not getting done in the air. Wilson may be the one who even got his guy Schotty fired for that terrible performance… we do need a running game. Were not going to get a Chiefs offense. Reid is a superstar offensive coach and they have unique superstar players on offense.

    Russ should get 1-2 more years and honestly he should be traded both for his legacy and team perspective if we do not get very close nor win a superbowl. Skip & Shannon did a great talk on Wilson today. He wants to be the franchise legacy guy and as such he rightly deserves criticism too that a player of his caliber should get for playing so poorly.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m not remotely concerned about running the ball more.

      In fact I haven’t made any complaint about that, not once.

      My issue is they are picking a coordinator and at the top of the advert is ‘wanted — yes man’. We’re going about this all wrong. I’m happy to get a coach who will run the ball. Shanahan and McVay want to run the ball.

      What I don’t want is Pete dictating everything to a coordinator who only got the job because he’s willing to be dictated to.

      • Jordan E

        Gotcha. That makes sense Rob. The most optimistic I can say is that we just have to wait on the hire… can only hope that Pete adapts at least a little bit for this year.

      • Dan Riggs


        Rob, do you think there is any chance that John sees the issue and will override Pete on his OC?

        • Rob Staton


        • Big Mike

          John is below Pete in the organization. Everyone in the organization answers to Pete Carroll. Why do people not understand that? It was spelled out in the press conference announcing Carroll as the HC and VP of Football Ops 10 freaking years ago.

          • Austin Slater

            Pete gave it away when asked who holds him accountable and he listed his son and that he bounces ideas off of Wagner and Wilson. That comment alone should have infuriated people and yet most missed it.

      • James Z

        You’re comment is spot-on. It implies, at least to me, that the problem is PC’s managing of the team in-game and his need to have total control. It’s surely a blind spot in his character and is most likely there to stay. Innovation does not register with him. Peteball is an anachronism even if running the ball is a priority as McVay and Shanahan have shown with their use of personal, play-calling and scheming.

    • Jordan E

      We need a superstar RB. Thats our biggest priority imo for this offseason. A. Jones may be available… Lev Bell if he has anything in the tank. Jonathan Taylor would have great looking back at it too

      • Rohan Raman

        Don’t think Lev Bell would be a good fit here, but Aaron jones could be nice if carson walks. That being said, I’d much rather get Javonte Williams. Dude looks like a baller and will be much cheaper.

        • Jordan E

          Just watched some tape on Javonte. Looks explosive and very good with running from the shotgun (which works well with Russ).. And agreed. Aaron Jones would be awesome. Personally, I am very low on Carson.. He is a great player but I don’t think what this offense needs as he lacks explosiveness. Yes, he can break a run for 10-15 yards but he does not have the speed to take it to the house. Add in he is very unreliable in terms of durability and will likely command an expensive contract. So many red flags with huge second contracts for RBs especially with how injured Carson has been..

          Also yeah. Not too high on Lev but willing to take the chance if the contract is fair. Maybe even add a Bell and Javonte and load up. Think there are better combos but would be willing to do it to increase chance for a star RB.

      • Big Mike

        Just a reminder, Taylor was taken with the 41st pick in last year’s draft. Seattle could’ve taken him at #23 or traded down a ways and still grabbed him. Too bad a LB was more important. Yeah Brooks look like he might be good, but if running the football is so damned important to Pete Carroll, why the f does he not draft a workhorse back like Taylor. Any chance it’s cuz it would be tacitly admitting the Penny choice was a mistake?


    The reason why the defense was the worst in NFL history in the first half was because of bad chemistry. They suffocated teams in the second half playing with the same schemes and the same personnel for the most part. I’m sure Pete told Norton: we need go back to basics and play team defense. And I bet Ken said: “yes, sir!”. Apparently, the D had a breakthrough meeting where each player took responsibility and they all got on the same page. So the players, assistant coaches – all the way up to Pete – were in synch.

    On offense, the Hawks took advantage of our weak schedule and Covid at the start of the season. Why not open it up when defenses were behind the 8 ball. But that advantage wore off when defenses had time to practice and were waiting for the Great Russ Cooking Show. I’m sure Pete said: let’s go back to my philosophy that has made Russ the winningest QB in NFL history. Something tells me that Shotty/Russ did not entirely agree. And we saw the result.

    The discord – not the strategy – was the issue. Chemistry is a vibration. Everybody on the team has to buy in for things to really cook. If there is disagreement at any level, it breaks the flow. If the coordinator is not tapping the “All In” sign, Pete is going to let him go.

    The new OC will go back to a more structured, bad-ass run approach. Russ plays with so much more confidence and discipline in Pete’s system. This cooking interlude was instructive in that it revealed the obvious: he is not Rodgers. What team is going to trade for Russ and say “we will let you throw it 40+ a game. And be sure to do that hold the ball for a half hour thing”.

    After the Rams game, Russ had a post-game face like a wet weekend. I have never seen him look more discouraged. You can only serve one master and Pete is that man. He should have a sit down with Mr. Unlimited and ask if he will fully commit to Carroll’s philosophy again. If the answer is not an unlimited yes, they ought to trade him in the offseason.

    • BobbyK

      The emergence of Reed and the Dunlap trade worked wonders.


        Undoubtedly, an updgrade. I’d say every position group was upgraded from last year’s playoff team but still the same result. I remember fearing a drop off in the past rush the game Dunlop missed to injury and we had one of our best games that way. It is not one or two guys. Do they believe in each other and themselves as a group?

        • AlaskaHawk

          Defense sucked early on because there was very little pass rush, the corners (Flowers) were terrible, and the safeties weren’t coordinating yet.
          Once Reed and Dunlap and Griffith emerged, and Adams was healthy again (though played as a blitzer instead of as a safety) things improved.

    • Rob Staton

      The defense sucked for a lot of reasons, not just chemistry.


        My 8th grade softball coach used to say three things: 1) Team, not I; 2) rock and sock those bats; and 3) one non-team player will ruin the best team ever put together. That’s all he ever said; over and over again. That’s all a great coach ever says and when people stop listening, the moment is lost.

        I’m not disagreeing – I’m really saying you are not taking far enough. Russ is already gone. That was crystal clear to me the moment Pete inked an extension. And I think the organization was very wise to go that direction.

        Too much to discuss in a reply. Here’s a thought Rob: invite me on your podcast and I will make a compelling case why everything that is happening is all to the good. Or hit me on skype – let’s chop it up! I’ll squeeze you into my Covid schedule – I’m sure I have a spot between sitting on the couch and staring out the window.

    • Matt

      Is there a reason you go out of your way to say the offense took advantage of a weak schedule while not acknowledging the same, if not more extreme for the defense? I mean…the improvement 100% coincides with facing terrible offenses.

      I get there’s a bit of a Pete vs RW war on this board, but your giving off the impression that the defense had this transcendent moment where they morphed into the 1985 Bears.

      I don’t doubt for a minute that chemistry is important for a defense, but again – they finished 16th in DVOA. So…we are talking about the definition of mediocrity; one of which showed itself quite clearly in a playoff game against the Rams where we faced a Financial Advisor and a handicapped Jared Goff. The defense was not bad. Conversely it wasn’t good, in that game. They were…mediocre.

      Lastly, the reality is, every single player in the NFL wants individual success. To pretend that RW is unique in this regard is wholly unfair. The average NFL career is insanely short and it’s a chance for these guys to permanently change the future of generations of their families. Of course, this works in degrees – but what has PC done to really build around RW? Very few star QBs are in Constant friction with their HC.


        Quite right. I will concede the strength of schedule point on the defensive side. I am just asking myself why they played so much better on D against the same team just a few weeks before.

        You could see that they were not in the flow on offense. For me, the pick 6 was the inflection point of the entire season. After that, you could feel D starting to press and see them start pointing at each other.

        This was Russ’s team. Did you notice that the worst stretch of his career immediately followed all the Russ for MVP talk. When asked about receiving no MVP votes, he said: I want the award, not just votes #unlimited. There is only one answer to that question man; it is all about the rings, boss. As a foot soldier, how do you feel hearing your field general even acknowledge an individual award? It seems like a small thing, but Pete know how you do the small things is how you do the big things. The battle was already lost.

  38. Cysco

    Gut feeling, but keep an eye on Wilson to Dallas.

    I could totally see Dallas doing a blockbuster trade for Wilson. It’s the kind of move Jerry Jones would love to do.

    Dallas has the picks and I don’t think they’re going to want to roll with Prescott next season.

    If I’m a betting man, that’s the trade put my money on.

    • TomLPDX

      Why wouldn’t they want to role with Dak? He’s a good QB and on par with Russ.They need to sign Dak and stop playing their stupid games with him.

      • Jordan E

        Before trading Wilson. Consider how big his salary is and how much of a dead cap it would be to the Seahawks cap space. Trading him makes no fiscal sense at all- especially with the probability he will return back to form which he has done the past 3 years consecutively.

        • Rob Staton

          This is an overrated angle though.

          He’d be off the books by the end of 2021 freeing up MASSIVE cap space. And if the Saints can go into 2021 $100m over the cap, then anyone can do whatever they want.

          • Jordan E

            True. I’d say it depends on how the NFL deals with Saints and other teams going over the cap. I think if the NFL stays with the current rules then it would really make no sense to trade Russ.

            Hmm. I’m not sure how to exactly interpret Russ’s contract (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/russell-wilson-9885/) but it appears the team has an out in 2022. Personally, I’d even welcome franchise tagging him and trying to trade but knowing the Hawks they’d probably let him walk should Russ chose to end contract after this coming year.

            Russ also has a no trade clause on his contract… I assume this would also devalue him in trades by reducing the number of teams he can go too. Add in he is definitely a “buy-low” position right now and has the huge contract, and we lack early draft picks next year should we wish to do a rebuild. Again- I don’t see any real logic with trading Wilson unless the Hawks can somehow can a kings ransom.

  39. Pran

    Russ aint going anywhere unless he demands a trade.

    If its for a successful business, they need Russ or a top draft QB. Fans wont come to stadium to see PC. There is no Marshawn, no LOB and no Russ now?

  40. BobbyK

    Rob – Any thoughts about a guy like Cam Robinson for LG? He’s young (25) and is an average LT. He’s a big people mover who could possibly be signed to eventually replace Brown at LT, while manning LG until Brown gets injured or retires. I think he would make a better LG than LT though. Not sure he’d want to do that, but it’s a thought.

  41. DC

    I will always be grateful for the championship that Pete has delivered to Seahawks’ fans. It fulfilled my life long fanatical fandom & was worth the wait. That said, he seems like the kind of guy that believes rules don’t apply to him & is above questioning or critique. I didn’t like him at NE & I hated him at USC & rather than go down with the ship that he set on fire he jumped ship to the Seattle. Am I calling for his head? No. But I certainly hope he is humble enough to grow, adjust & refocus his vision to adapt to the ever changing present. I hope that Russ stays here for the rest of his career & wins that elusive second championship.

    I think of the trajectory of the Star Wars saga and overlap it with the PC/JS/RW Seahawks. Two incredible movies for a rising franchise, (episode IV/ 2012 & episode V/2013) & then a long, slow decline living primarily on diminishing passion from the past. All the while, no one had the guts to tell George Lucas/Pete Carroll that Jar-Jar Binks was a shiiite Left Guard, or if they did they were offed.

    What we need now is ‘A New Hope’.

  42. SeattleAztec

    “I would love to own the Seattle Seahawks one day,” 32-year-old Wilson told Cuban during their conversation. “The city is so special … That would be one of my biggest goals in life.”

    He’s already a part owner of the Sounders.

    He’s not going anywhere and I think it’s silly to discuss him trying to force his way out by trade.

    • Denver Hawker

      Owning the team and requesting a trade are mutually exclusive.

      Do you think he’ll stay if he’s losing and throwing 20 passes per game?

    • Rob Staton

      So it’s beyond the realms of possibility that he simply doesn’t own the Seahawks after all (which is highly unlikely anyway) and retains a stake in the Sounders while playing elsewhere?

      Come on. You have no right to call this fair discussion silly based on such a weak counter argument.

      • SeattleAztec

        Your “fair discussion” revolves around an assertion Mike Florio made and your own speculation that he wants to be more like Mahomes and have that style of offense. I understand the connection between he and his agent, but Florio/PFT are notorious for clickbait and I think anything Rodgers is passing along is meant for leverage, not to lay the breadcrumbs that Wilson wants out of Seattle. Wilson has repeatedly said he wants a legacy of being the greatest winner of all time / the best to ever do it. He’s the only QB in NFL history to have a winning record to start his first 9 seasons. He joined Manning and Marino as the only QBs in history to throw 250+ TDs in his first 9 seasons. He joined Young and Newton as the only QBs in history to have 30,000 pass yards and 4,000 rushing yards. He’s won a super bowl and been in another – that’s more than Brees or Rodgers can say currently – though I’m sure he wants to win more. So it seems like he’s on path to cementing his legacy while becoming the most iconic athlete in Seattle’s history, and while another offensive system could take him higher, I’m sure he knows going to another franchise is also a gamble.

        Outside of all that, though, Russell Wilson extended his contract in 2019 at the age of 30, coming off a season where they were the most run-heavy team and were bounced from the playoffs because they were so adamant about running it. Despite that, despite the rumors he wanted out of Seattle and Ciara wanted him to go to New York, he re-signed with his agent saying they made some compromises because he loves Seattle. If Russ was really upset with Carroll’s style/vision for the team, wouldn’t he have forced his way out then? I’m just going to end this with some quotes from Russ after he signed his last extension:

        “I told him what was most important was I just turned 30 years old,’’ Wilson said. “I think the next 10 years of my life, the next deal was going to be the place where ‘Hey, if we’re going to be in Seattle, wherever it’s going to be, I want to make sure that’s where I’m going to be for the next 10-12 years hopefully.’’’

        “It’s just because really from the beginning of my professional career, it started here and my goal was to end it here,’’ Wilson said. “To leave a lasting impression on this city. … I want to be a Seahawk for life. That was kind of my mentality.’’

        “The guys I’ve always admired in sports, the guys that played at (their) locations for 15-20 years, guys like Derek Jeter, I want to be like that,’’ he said. “I want to be remembered in that sense of what we want to do here in Seattle. So we’re just getting started.’’

        • Rob Staton

          Your “fair discussion” revolves around an assertion Mike Florio made and your own speculation that he wants to be more like Mahomes and have that style of offense. I understand the connection between he and his agent, but Florio/PFT are notorious for clickbait and I think anything Rodgers is passing along is meant for leverage, not to lay the breadcrumbs that Wilson wants out of Seattle.

          Putting the words ‘fair discussion’ in quote marks and accusing Florio of clickbait doesn’t counter any of the points made.

          Plus if you’d read my previous article on the Wilson situation you would also know that Florio’s reporting is merely a continuation of what we’ve heard from people such as Adam Schefter, Chris Mortensen and Mike Garofolo in the past. So unless they’re all just clickbaiting their way through life to reel in unsuspecting bloggers like me, maybe you should simply accept that what I have written so far is fair game.

          Wilson has repeatedly said he wants a legacy of being the greatest winner of all time / the best to ever do it. He’s the only QB in NFL history to have a winning record to start his first 9 seasons. He joined Manning and Marino as the only QBs in history to throw 250+ TDs in his first 9 seasons. He joined Young and Newton as the only QBs in history to have 30,000 pass yards and 4,000 rushing yards. He’s won a super bowl and been in another – that’s more than Brees or Rodgers can say currently – though I’m sure he wants to win more. So it seems like he’s on path to cementing his legacy while becoming the most iconic athlete in Seattle’s history, and while another offensive system could take him higher, I’m sure he knows going to another franchise is also a gamble.

          So why did he issue an ultimatum to the team prior to the season starting on the way they needed to play on offense? Why is his agent telling Florio he expects a trade in the not too distant future?

          I also think he’s perfectly willing to take a gamble.

          Outside of all that, though, Russell Wilson extended his contract in 2019 at the age of 30, coming off a season where they were the most run-heavy team and were bounced from the playoffs because they were so adamant about running it. Despite that, despite the rumors he wanted out of Seattle and Ciara wanted him to go to New York, he re-signed with his agent saying they made some compromises because he loves Seattle. If Russ was really upset with Carroll’s style/vision for the team, wouldn’t he have forced his way out then?

          Maybe, maybe not. Things change. DeShaun Watson signed a new contract a year ago. He wants out of Houston.

          “I told him what was most important was I just turned 30 years old,’’ Wilson said. “I think the next 10 years of my life, the next deal was going to be the place where ‘Hey, if we’re going to be in Seattle, wherever it’s going to be, I want to make sure that’s where I’m going to be for the next 10-12 years hopefully.’’’

          “It’s just because really from the beginning of my professional career, it started here and my goal was to end it here,’’ Wilson said. “To leave a lasting impression on this city. … I want to be a Seahawk for life. That was kind of my mentality.’’

          “The guys I’ve always admired in sports, the guys that played at (their) locations for 15-20 years, guys like Derek Jeter, I want to be like that,’’ he said. “I want to be remembered in that sense of what we want to do here in Seattle. So we’re just getting started.’’

          I’m not being funny but what exactly did you expect him to say immediately after signing a new contract?

          • SeattleAztec

            I did read the other article and Florio and Schefter were talking of a trade in 2019 before Wilson signed his contract extension and it’s currently only Florio reporting that or I’ve missed Schefter’s more recent statement. I think the idea that Wilson or the team were putting that out there for leverage is equally likely to those talks being substantive. So I’m not denying there could have been trade talk, but I strongly believe that ended when he signed his extension.

            Unless I see Russ say it himself, I don’t believe Florio’s assertion that Russ made an ultimatum (which Florio admits wasn’t an outright ultimatum, but close to it). Florio is the media and he’s more concerned with generating buzz to drive clicks and views to make more money than he is with honest reporting.

            The Deshaun Watson comparison is lazy. There’s been numerous articles and pundits describing how dysfunctional and chaotic Jack Easterby has made the franchise. The Texans told Watson he would have input on the GM and HC hiring, but was never consulted. That means Watson can’t trust the franchise. Way different situation than Russ finds himself in.

            He could talk about how much success they’ve had, how he wants to continue to win, how much he loves his teammates. He didn’t have to go down the path of talking about ending his career and leaving a legacy in Seattle.

            Russ just got done with his presser. He talked about wanting to be involved in the process of finding the next OC and that he, Pete, and John have already had talks of what they want. If he wants out of Seattle, why make that demand? I will grant you this – if the Seahawks don’t involve him in the hiring decision and he hates who Carroll chooses, he could sour. But until then, I’m standing firm that there’s nothing substantive to suggest Russ wants out of Seattle.

            • Rob Staton

              I did read the other article and Florio and Schefter were talking of a trade in 2019 before Wilson signed his contract extension and it’s currently only Florio reporting that or I’ve missed Schefter’s more recent statement.

              The point is, the leading NFL insiders were all talking about a trade two years ago. A year removed from other talks of a potential trade. The new contract doesn’t make any difference here. There’s been a common theme of ‘trade talks’ and it’s not just limited to Mike Florio.

              And by the way, nothing that Florio has reported about any of this has ever been disputed. He has legitimate sources and gets info, whether you want to accept that or not.

              I strongly believe that ended when he signed his extension.

              Well I’m afraid you don’t get to dismiss Florio’s reporting, when we know he has a source close to Wilson, and then get away with an unsourced assumption of your own.

              Look — you don’t have to like Mike Florio. But you don’t have to dismiss his reporting when it doesn’t suit.

              Unless I see Russ say it himself, I don’t believe Florio’s assertion that Russ made an ultimatum

              Presumably then you never believe anything reported ever? Unless it’s from the horses mouth?

              Florio is the media and he’s more concerned with generating buzz to drive clicks and views to make more money than he is with honest reporting.

              Yeah, it’s the evil media.

              Florio needs the clicks and money, because clearly NBC don’t make much for him to be on… SNF… every week.

              And that’s why guys like Tony Dungy associate with him.

              Look — there are some websites who rely on clicks to survive. As a member of the media myself, I’m telling you — if you think Florio with his NBC contract and PFT need clicks, you are SO, SO, SO wrong.

              That’s probably the most visited NFL site in the world. They are just fine.

              The Deshaun Watson comparison is lazy.

              Well of course it is. How very convenient for you.

              There’s been numerous articles and pundits describing how dysfunctional and chaotic Jack Easterby has made the franchise. The Texans told Watson he would have input on the GM and HC hiring, but was never consulted. That means Watson can’t trust the franchise. Way different situation than Russ finds himself in.

              Yes it’s a different situation. I never claimed it was similar.

              The point is — he clearly didn’t think it was too dysfunctional to sign a long term contract a year ago. This idea of yours that players sign a contract and can’t still move on shortly after, is wrong.

              Just because he signed a deal two years ago doesn’t guarantee anything.

              He could talk about how much success they’ve had, how he wants to continue to win, how much he loves his teammates. He didn’t have to go down the path of talking about ending his career and leaving a legacy in Seattle.

              He also could’ve talked about those things and it could be just typical words at a press conference after signing a new deal. You know that, and it’s OK to accept the point I made there.

              Russ just got done with his presser. He talked about wanting to be involved in the process of finding the next OC and that he, Pete, and John have already had talks of what they want.

              He made it very clear he wants to be involved, yes. So they better involve him.

              If he wants out of Seattle

              I never said he ‘wants out’. I talked about a scenario where that could become a possibility. And it will become an increasing possibility if they don’t properly consult him on the OC or appoint someone he doesn’t approve of.

              But until then, I’m standing firm that there’s nothing substantive to suggest Russ wants out of Seattle.

              Again, I never said he ‘wants out’. You’re arguing against a position not uttered once.

              The point is he has ambitions, goals, aims and a vision for this offense. If Carroll goes in a completely different direction, it will set the wheels in motion for a possible divorce.

              You’re acting like I’m suggesting he just wants out at all costs because he doesn’t like the weather or something.


    • John

      Lebron left Cleveland and Brady left New England so I don’t think it’s still at all to discuss his future in Seattle.

      • SeattleAztec

        Lebron became a ring chaser, likely due to all the MJ talk. I don’t think he’s an apt comparison for Russ. Brady is though, and I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Russ went out like him – spending his last 1-2 years with another team before he retires. But I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea that we’re about to see Russ force his way out by trade.

  43. Ryan Purcell

    I think they have moved pretty decisively since the season ender. Signed Schnieder. Moved on from Shotty. Two good moves to my mind. Could we really have a reset of the offense with Shotty still in there? No way. They had to get rid of him and they have to get someone better. That offensive scheme was out of ideas – they never recovered their mojo from early in the season – that is not ALL on Pete. Russ is going nowhere with his dead cap hit and neither is Pete. They moved on from the guy they could move on from and we can hope for a more dynamic offensive scheme to come. I can understand some apprehension over the upcoming hire but don’t get the hand-wringing. I don’t ever want to see the offensive scheme we saw in the Rams game again! Does anyone??

    • Rob Staton

      Why are you commenting on an article you clearly haven’t read?

      The Seahawks didn’t ‘act decisively’ and had no plans to move on from Schottenheimer. They had an end of season review and he decided he didn’t want to run Carroll’s offense, so they parted.

      This idea that the Seahawks simply ‘moved on’ for someone better isn’t reality.

      It might be what you wish happened — but it’s not what actually happened.

      • Ryan Purcell

        Did read it. I read all your stuff! In regards to the Schneider signing I’m practically quoting an earlier post of yours! But if you think they were happy with the offense that showed up during the second half of the season I’ve got a bridge to sell you. What did the conversation look like? We don’t know exactly but I’m sure there were some hard truths tossed around. Shotty could not adapt and make it work so he’s gone. Would ou have tried to keep him around?

        It’s an open question really, but here it is – how are we supposed to improve and move in a more dynamic direction with the same old OC? Not going to happen. We had to get rid of him.

        • Rob Staton

          If you read the article you’d see the quotes I posted from a report stating implicitly that they weren’t planning to move on from Schotty until he basically said he didn’t want to run the offense Pete wanted to run.

          They were going to keep him around.

          They didn’t ‘get rid of him’ like you are suggesting.

          • Ryan Purcell

            Hmm… I seem to have missed that bit, and that’s my bad! Apologies for being a dummy. Still, I’m not unhappy they are moving on.

  44. SeahawkeyezSubj80

    Rob, What is your idea of Pete’s offense? Run middle Run between the guards/tackle, or stretch run. Than if those defended put in Russell’s hand to get the third down completion. Like the Marshawn Lynch days. Problem is their will never be another Marshawn Lynch. I am not saying that’s what you want, just your interpretation of what Pete wants.

    I am in complete agreement that Pete should bring in a innovative running strategist like Sant Clara’s running coordinator pay him a handsome salary, promise of keys to the future of this franchise. Your following printed words:

    Let’s be serious here. A candidate from San Francisco or LA is not going to go to division rival Seattle to run Pete Carroll’s offense. They would be coming from highly successful, highly coveted offensive schemes. They will want to run what they want to run. They will want to set the table for Head Coaching opportunities in the future.

    They are not coming here to be overruled on fourth and 1 or have the identity and style of the offense dictated to them.

    Carroll would arguably be better off ceding control, trusting someone from a diverse, creative and ultimately run-centric system to operate their own scheme. All with the promise that you might be the heir apparent to Carroll.

    Throw in a fancy title. Give them a huge salary.

    That’s not going to happen though. This will be the offensive version of Ken Norton Jr instead. Someone simply willing to install whatever Carroll wants.

    Why is it completely out of the realm of possibility that Pete/John does not entice a young upcoming coach. Someone with enough ingenuity to install his vision of running the ball more. But more importantly “Run more effectively” . Bonus if we can grab someone that weakens a division opponent.

    Otherwise based on your view sounds like we maybe we should call Schotty’s dad Marty instead. Hell lets bring back the Veer offense. LOL

    • Rob Staton

      Rob, What is your idea of Pete’s offense? Run middle Run between the guards/tackle, or stretch run. Than if those defended put in Russell’s hand to get the third down completion. Like the Marshawn Lynch days. Problem is their will never be another Marshawn Lynch. I am not saying that’s what you want, just your interpretation of what Pete wants.

      I’m not sure why you’re telling me what my view of Carroll’s offense is, when I haven’t expressed any opinion on it.

      Why is it completely out of the realm of possibility that Pete/John does not entice a young upcoming coach. Someone with enough ingenuity to install his vision of running the ball more. But more importantly “Run more effectively” . Bonus if we can grab someone that weakens a division opponent.

      Because they will want to run their offense. Not Pete Carroll’s offense.

      • SeahawkeyezSubj80

        I wasn’t trying to tell you what your view of Pete Carroll’s offense. I was simply asking your “opinion because you did not express it” Merely giving examples of possibilities.

        I don’t think Carroll really cares how the run game happens, as long as it happens. First and foremost, because it leads to less exposure to turnovers than the passing game. Keeps control of the game. Slows it down. Just my opinion.

        Good day. Live Long and prosper. Go hawks! Peace out.

        • austin slater

          I wouldn’t assume Pete doesn’t care how the running game operates as long as it does. I think Pete at this stage of his life and career wants it done in a way that makes sense to him hence “his way”. I’m with Rob on this….I don’t think it matters because no one wants to kick off their resume with a situation where you can’t show what you can do. It will be a retread or someone who will operate like Norton and do what he’s told.

  45. GHouse

    So we just gonna pretend that Russ didn’t “like” the Adam Schefter tweet announcing Schottys firing?
    I could see a scenario where both Russ and Pete didn’t agree with Brian. After all it was Russ who pushed for passing more right? And when the offense stopped working it becomes a matter of whose getting the blame.

    • Rob Staton

      Yes, I’m sure Wilson was liking that so we could all read so much into it and discuss it on here.

      Wilson is a serial ‘liker’. He liked one of my tweets a year ago. It doesn’t mean anything.

      He also posted a gushing tweet saying how much he loved Schotty.

      • GHouse

        Of course it could mean nothing. Serial liker though? Didn’t you also call him a social media addict?
        Ultimately we’re both speculating here. I think all your points and theories have validity to them. But some of your theories have less evidence than this.
        I’m just throwing this info into the pile. I thought this blog wanted divverse, measured discussions.

        • Rob Staton

          Wilson liking that tweet means nothing at all.

          He literally posted a gushing, praising post of Schotty.

          My theories have far more evidence than ‘Wilson liked a tweet’. That is silly to be fair.

  46. Rob Staton

    The podcast is now live. Apologies for the delay, it’s YouTube’s fault.

  47. Frank

    I wonder at what point of the offensive collapse Carroll stepped in with wanting Pete ball? The amount of leash that was given matters quite a bit in who to blame, and how compelling of job opportunity could be, to a young OC. The story of 4&1 is an absolute horror show, almost hard to believe but exactly what it would take to turn a young hotshot OC off Seattle. Had the same idea as Rob on the offer a young OC control, big ass salary, and a fancy title like assistant head coach, but sounds like Pete’s dug in for his last stand. Bobby pretty much express how i feel about the Wilson situation, so no need to rehash.

  48. Mike

    Interesting article. I think youre right that guys like florio know something from sources, this isn’t something that those guys just say without there being something going on.

    Colin cowherd had some interesting comments today basically saying that Pete just wants to run the ball, but said it doesn’t make sense to do so with there running backs getting beat up, offensive line being poor and Wilson being one of the best quarterbacks in nfl.

    Cowherd also talked about how Pete wants to play like the browns and criticized the hawks for passing on Chubb, but i think your right Russell Wilson isn’t going to want to be baker mayfield at this point in his career.

    I think what’s going on is a quieter version of what’s happened with Brady and rodgers with their former coaches. It seems like the franchise has chosen Pete over Russell for the future though with the new contract Pete signed.

  49. OP_Chillin

    One thing that doesn’t make sense to me about the Pete reigning in the offense idea to me – the pass rate remained very, very high even in neutral scripts (dropped to 6th in the second half of the season, was 1st in the first 8 games). I would have thought if Pete was dictating the offense, they’d have run on close to 50% of early downs in neutral scripts.

    If you look at the film, Schotty was still calling concepts with intermediate options against 2 hi that were coming open pretty consistently but a combination of Russ and the pass pro declining meant they weren’t hitting those with any consistency and it killed the offense. Back in 2018, Pete stepped in and they dropped to 32nd in pass play frequency. Why didn’t anything close to that happen when allegedly stepped in this time?

    • Rob Staton

      One thing that doesn’t make sense to me about the Pete reigning in the offense idea to me – the pass rate remained very, very high even in neutral scripts (dropped to 6th in the second half of the season, was 1st in the first 8 games). I would have thought if Pete was dictating the offense, they’d have run on close to 50% of early downs in neutral scripts.

      We need to get out of this mindset though that Pete-ball means running more in neutral scripts.

      It’s not just that at all. It’s about this whole mentality to ‘win 17-14’, to avoid turnovers as a priority, to be safe and keep things close, rather than attacking teams to apply scoreboard pressure.

      • OP_Chillin

        Fair enough, but looking at the film, there are guys open who aren’t getting the ball pretty consistently.

        Unless you’re saying Peteball is to just have a crap offense, which, uh… you got me there.

        • Rob Staton

          I think Pete’s ‘vision’ is an offense that essentially doesn’t turn the ball over.

          It’s as basic as that.

          I think he believes if they protect the ball on offense, that his defense can win the turnover battle and thus they will win the game. On top of that, I think he wants to win the explosive play battle on both sides of the ball.

          That’s his vision IMO. Not running X amount or passing X amount.

          And the problem with this vision is it relies on you avoiding mistakes (which happen to EVERY team, however good). And if the game gets away from you (as we see every year in the playoffs) — you’re left scrambling around for answers, looking completely lost.

          • OP_Chillin

            In a bizarre way, that mistake-averse style of football actually evaporates the margin for error as it limits the offense’s ability to create what you’ve called “scoreboard pressure” unless the opposing defense is just awful or makes major mistakes.

            • Rob Staton


              • Hoggs41

                I think for sure his number one objective in a football game is to not turnover the football. That also means you are playing scared which is no way to play any game.

                • Matt

                  Totally agree. I made the analogy yesterday – in baseball; Pete wants his players to hit home runs, but by God, they better not, ever strike out.

                  Good luck with that mentality.

          • McZ

            Essentially, this is what McVay is doing. He plays intelligent low risk football on offense. The only difference to PC, who wants to be the bully, is his preference for health over physicality.

            The Rams have the most intense, rejuvenated defense in the league. They have the #1 DL, a developing young LB core and one hell of a deep secondary. Last season, their OL was crap, they fixed it with young mid-rounders. They got a perfect kicker for a bargain.

            I grow green with envy watching the Rams hitting with almost any pick in the 2020 draft.

            It’s all what PCJs aspire to do and fall short of. No chance for the Seahawks to mimic this kind of development. We haven’t seen this kind of coherent methodology and analysis for years. It’s more or less make-do style, under a big chop of feel-good-talk-sauce.

            And this is why I don’t trust PC to manage a rebuild. This franchise will bleed dry.

  50. JC3

    How are you going to pound the rock if #1 RB Rashard Penny can’t take the pounding?

    • Rob Staton

      You get a different RB

      • Big Mike

        And admit you made a mistake drafting Penny in the first place? Maybe since he got injured. Maybe.

  51. SeattleLifer

    Huh. And now Pete is doubling down on Pete ball and ran his mediocre o-coordinator out of town. I’m with you Rob, it’s going to be a yes guy and probably the only one that’s been mentioned (unless he does’nt even want to come here…). I’m just pissed that we’ve given so much draft capitol away because with how things are looking I could see a couple of years of regression in wins, we already gave up pick #22 this year and if it were to drift down to something like pick 16 next year? Rrrrg!

    I just see this team/franchise doing things just as they have done all along post Super Bowls. John’s been resigned, Pete’s on board for years, Russ I think is kind of stuck here for a few years at least with the cap hits and the fact that I think he really would’nt want to move his family/connections in the area. But this coming season may well bring things to an uneasy place if Pete and John’s ways prove unsuccessful and irritating at the same time.

    Unfortunately I also see it all bleeding over to free agency. John and Pete have shown a penchant for over paying their own and just making unwise decisions to keep at all too often as well.

    Carson – I’ve said for years he’s too injury prone and whether it was a) persistent injuries concerns or b) just him starting to decline a little, he really did’nt look the same on the field for many of the games he played after his early injuries. But Pete loves him and if they don’t pay him then they almost have to take a RB with their 2nd round pick – but do they trust they could get a suitable replacement at that point in the draft? If not then they get fearful/a little desperate again and maybe they just pony up and resign him before free agency to a too expensive deal. For me? Hard pass unless like you said Rob a cheaper 1 year deal at most.

    Shaquille. I’m frankly done with the guy and the only way I see bringing him back is if you do get someone like Sherman to man the WR 1 side of the field and then you move Shaq back to CB 2 but again only on a cheapish deal and for no more than 2 years, say 2 years 12.5 million. Take it or leave it. Buuuut we all know Seahawks CB’s are kind of specialist for ‘our’ system and not entirely easy to replace – Pete loves his familiarity there and after being burned by Williams and such will they again act out of fear/some desperation and sign him before free agency to lock him up (and for far too much?). Wouldn’t surprise me.

    KJ Wright. Consummate pro, great locker room guy, intelligent, playmaker. I’d like to resign him but only to a 1 year deal myself. His one issue is speed and that could get significantly worse at any time with age. I am quite leery of giving him either solid money or 2-3 years. I think for me 1 year at 6 million would be the highest you should go. He’s claiming he wants his monie$ and he should but I’m with Kevin – let him test the market and maybe he realizes there aren’t as many teams as he thinks looking for aged LB’s that are slower and are liabilities in coverage. And now back to Pete and John’s world : they don’t really have a good option for a 3rd LB if KJ leaves so will they feel they have to (yes because they are comfortable with him and they aren’t prepared for life without him) and thusly over pay him too on a 2 year deal.

    Pocic. I could see them trying to get him back as their backup center. But here we play the same broken record – they have no one in line better to take his place. Do they hit free agency and hope to find another BJ Finney? ( Sorry could’nt resist). Not enough draft capitol to take a day one starter really so we’re back to how much do Pete and John value him because there has been a whole lot of times where their valuations of players in house seems a lot higher than professional evaluators and the rest of the league much less opinions of us in blog land. Scarily there might even be a chance they go with him as well especially if they think they can pay him a little bit cheaper than other starting centers in the league, but for me he isn’t starting material at all and at best gets paid around minimum to be a backup. We’ll see.

    I just wonder how many malcontents there will be on this team by say week 13 next season. Of course you’ll have the Wagner types willing to punch the clock and try to make their keep and the rookies (minus DK?), but how many of the other guys will be happy if we are losing and everything is fractured? I think Pete is doubling down on his way in part because he realizes he could be on the precipice of a really bad team vibe next year if he doesn’t try and reign things in and weed out any body who isn’t fully on board(or paid so much that they know they should just shut up and play). This regime already went through a purging of malcontents and you have to question why that could be on such a player friendly team with such a supposedly great culture building coach. Could it be they saw through it all even better/quicker because they were on ground zero day in day out? All I know is it’s clear that Pete (and to a somewhat lesser hard to gauge extent John) are at the crux of it all and it’s just flat out lame that he’s been extended because every molecule in my mind says it’s time at least Pete goes asap.

    But alas we are stuck with him and ‘his’ yes guys and his decisions on the field and in the office. And an off-season with excruciatingly poor draft capitol and little cap room to boot(with current projections…). So even the off-season and free agency have the potential to really suck. Uhh what a time to be a passionate Hawks fan that can see the writing on the wall.

    • Rob Staton

      I think one thing that’s lost among all the talk at the moment is just how bad Seattle’s off season was a year ago.

      They wasted money, didn’t address needs. Made a series of head scratching moves.

      Right before the season they blow the next two drafts on a blitzing safety.

      None of this makes sense.

  52. cha

    If they’re going to commit to Peteball, there are just many questions to be asked of the defense as the offense.

    The two weeks that supposedly motivated Carroll to wrest control of the offense – week 9 at Buffalo and week 10 at LA?

    The defense gave up scores on the first 3 drives. 17 points early in the game. How does that not factor in how much the offense was pressing?

    Buffalo game, the Seahawks went for it on 4th and goal. That requires a degree of confidence in your defense to make it stand up if the offense isn’t successful. They didn’t. Buffalo scored on the ensuing drive.

    So it’s obvious you’re not going to win it in the classic low scoring grind it out manner Pete envisions.

    Curious to know how the defense seemingly got a pass but the offense has to be taken back to formula.

    • Big Mike

      Spot on cha. Problem is if Petey admits the whole disaster in those 2 games began with the D and led to RW pressing, he tacitly admits his own failings as a “defensive” coach AND tacitly admits his offseason “plan” was shite and his trade for Adams was a desperation move to try to make up for said shite offseason. Far easier to blame it all on Schotty and Russ dontcha know?

    • GoHawksDani

      I think the defense got taken back by PC too. I doubt KNJ out of the blue found the formula to limit offenses. I think Pete take back everything when he saw that defense is bad and offense starts to look bad. Defense became better and offense regressed totally

      • cha

        “Better” is relative.

        They couldn’t stop colt mccoy.

        Dwayne Haskins nearly stole one from them.

        They couldn’t stop Akers and got beaten by a backup and then Goff with a busted thumb in the playoffs.

        • Rob Staton

          The defensive ‘resurgence’ was overrated.

          They stopped being historically bad. That’s the gist of it.

          They played a bunch of bad or backup QB’s.

          Still a lot of work to do.

          And for me, they’d be better off ploughing resource into the DL. I’d rather spend $18m on a top-class interior pass rusher (Leonard Williams looked a terror in 2020) or edge than Jamal Adams. Or I’d rather sign Brandon Scherff and another rotational proven pass rusher.

          • OP_Chillin

            They still only finished 16th in defensive DVOA – not good enough. They haven’t cracked the top 10 since 2016, so if they can’t get back there by next year, it’s simply not up to snuff.

          • Austin

            Rob you’re completely right but sadly I don’t think Pete sees it that way. I truly think he believes his defense is every bit as good as it played late in the year. I think he’s crazy to assume the results of playing a string of terrible QB’s and bad offenses translate to good offenses. People cite the Rams team as proof but Goff was broken in the first game and we know the circumstances of the playoff Rams.

          • cha


            If you’re walking the line of deliberately alienating your franchise QB, you might as well go all in and rebuild the defensive line.

            Benson Mayowa v2.0 isn’t going to cut it.

            • Matt

              100%. I don’t like Pete Ball – but c’mon Pete…if you believe in it so much – then go all out. Show conviction. This half-assing it makes me question his conviction in his philosophy or his downright delusion that it can work regardless of personnel.

              The harsh reality is that the NFL puts an artificial cap on team resources via salary and draft picks. Pete has to pick and choose what he wants to do. He’s an absolute moron; yes a moron – if he wants to pay RW $35M to be, in the wise words of Rob, “Ryan Tannehill.”

              That’s just dumb. Let’s just be blunt about it…it’s stupid and a waste of finite resources.

              • cha

                A huge piece of this is their handling of the salary cap.

                Very conservative in some areas, very aggressive in others. And they don’t seem to be the “right kind” of conservative and aggressive. They rarely get it right, so they end up handcuffing themselves by spending on Bruce Irvins and Greg Olsens, when division rivals are out there adding a Trent Williams or a Deandre Hopkins or a Michael Brockers – players that actually make a difference.

                • Matt

                  PC/JS are able to turn a $100 bill into four $20s and one $5. I’ve never seen a group do so many great things followed by flushing picks or money down the toilet.

                  The money spent on the TE room was flat out embarrassing. I hate the hindsight stuff…but they could have just signed Jack Conklin and had a stalwart at RT for the forseeable future who could probably play LT at a decent level.

                  I’m so anti-resigning Shaq Griffin because he (IMO) is the epitome of an average starter who will be paid like he’s a difference maker. And that’s what bad teams do – they pay average players like they are great ones.

                  Perhaps my biggest source of frustration – why is PC so reluctant to really play young guys? Remember when you had young guys all over the place? They don’t do that anymore. Don’t re-sign Shaq – let a young draft pick have a chance. He will probably be worse at the beginning…BUT, he could be better in the long term.

                  • cha

                    Quite right. There’s a lot of discussion in this area to be had, and in the pieces that are forthcoming.

                    There’s a lot of talk about Russ’ $39m dead cap being an impediment or not. I’m not certain that Pete would make that move on his own. If Russ forced it, they might feel they have to move quickly to get max value and yes they’d eat the hit for 2021.

                    But counting on Pete to go all-in and trade Russell and eat that massive hit? Harder to see.

                  • Submanjoe

                    Doesn’t Russ have a no trade clause? Hence, Pete cannot initiate trading Russ, Russ has to want to be traded, and probably to a handpicked destination. Most likely this would happen and be done and we would find out all at once together.

  53. CL

    Maybe it’s possible that Wilson’s departure is more imminent than we think?

    Wilson and his agent should know, by now, how Pete wants to play football.
    They should know that he will never be allowed to do things that other QBs do regularly.

    If Mark Rodgers now talked with Florio, what was their intention?
    Again, they should know that Pete isn’t doing an 180 and throw away his peteball plans, just because they talked about it via Florio.

    I’m really starting to think, that Wilson wants to leave this offseason.
    Because what’s the best case scenario considering the fact that they don’t have cap space or draft picks.
    Does Russell really want to stay for something like another WC exit in the best case scenario?
    I kinda doubt it.

    • Rob Staton

      I wouldn’t rule anything out

      • Matt

        I was just re-listening to your video (for the 4th time) – excellent work.

        Here’s something that just struck me regarding Rodgers/Florio speculation…

        If we see an OC hired quickly – I think RW’s departure is imminent (this year or next year). If this is a prolonged process – then I think what is happening is a real attempt to “save the marriage,” and I will feel better that *perhaps* they are actually getting input from RW as to who he is comfortable with and what system he likes best. All speculation of course.

        I think the absolute best point you made in your video, and one I completely agree with, if Pete wants to double-down; just go all in. I don’t love Pete Ball, but I’m much more inclined to buy into it if Pete truly buys into it with his action. This whole half-assing a fix is getting really frustrating. What it shows is that even Pete questions his own philosophy. Or…even worse, Pete thinks his philosophy works no matter the personnel – which is VERY troubling to consider.

        Either way…great video. I think you are incredibly fair with all of your takes.

        • Rob Staton

          Thank you

        • Gohawks5151

          I was just typing up something similar before I got distracted. Timing is everything to me from here on out. I’m hoping for a longer process as well and Russ gets his say. I do think Russ needs to throw his weight around. Not through the back channels but actual stand up for himself. Many great QBs have done it. I do believe he is bulletproof to force change.

  54. Rob Staton

    Alex Leatherwood to the Senior Bowl!

    Absolutely love that.

    Guy ready to compete right after winning the National Championship.

    Total bad ass and that will show in Mobile.

    One of the best things about him? He’s not on F-ing twitter.

    • Gohawks5151

      Love this kid. Its easy to compare him to past Bama dudes like Cam Robinson but I think he showed a little more athleticism than I was expecting and can be a little more. Can’t wait for the senior bowl practices.

      • Rob Staton

        He is limited in terms of athleticism. He might be better off at guard.

        But either way, he’s big and tough and has attitude.

        • Denver Hawker

          If he falls as some mocks project, could be a fantastic pickup to play LG and groom for LT.

  55. no frickin clue


    If you were Pete and trying to get back to desired style of football – would you sign on for the Leonard Fournette Reclamation Project? Admittedly he has missed games in each of his four seasons, but only in 2018 was it significant – 7 games. In his other three seasons with the Jags, it was either 1 or 2 games missed.

    • Rohan Raman

      IMO, Fournette being released by the Jags, who drafted him with a top 10 pick, b/c they liked an UDFA better (granted, an UDFA who is pretty good) says a lot about him. He is a hammer, but has absolutely zero vision. There are so many times that he completely ignores the wide open hole in front of him and plunges straight into the d-line’s arms. If it was for absolutely nothing, maybe, but I just don’t really like him as a player, both in terms of play style and attitude (doesn’t seem to have made any efforts to improve).

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t think he’s shown enough

  56. Rohan Raman


    Interesting analysis done by Sam Gold, a writer/analyst for the Athletic, on the WC game and Russ’s role in the loss.

    • bmseattle

      Thanks for sharing… very interesting analysis.
      Russ missed some plays, but it sounds like Gold blames Schotty most of all.

    • 12th chuck

      one of the first plays he says Wilson shouldn’t be the one to blame for the game as he throws it 30 yards downfield and with a miss, as the video shows a 10 yard wide open receiver he didn’t even look at. just saying

      • bmseattle

        Russ’s vision and awareness (as well as decision making), was lacking vs the Rams.
        He was expecting, and getting, pass rush pressure every drop back.

        Either Schotty didn’t call plays to help him out, or Russ just couldn’t adjust.
        Most likely it was a combination of both.
        It doesn’t seem like these should be issues for a HOF level QB, at this point in his career.

        • 12th chuck


  57. Happy Hawk

    Losing your franchise quarterback would be bad – no other way to look at it. Everyone is trying to find their SB QB – Everyone. Do we really want to go down the rabbit hole of the half-nots and play the next decade searching for another elite QB when we already have one? Love the article, recognize the rationale and facts included in the content – but when I step back and look at what success looks like in the NFL it is obvious it is NOT with average to poor quarterbacking. Carr, Darnold, Cam Newton, Winston, Trubisky, Tua, Jones, Mariotta, T Taylor, Brissett, and others mentioned in the dialogue just simply cannot be the way forward for the Hawks. Really?

    • cha

      Last few Super Bowl QB pairings (and CCG losers)

      Mahomes / Jimmy G (Tannehill / Rodgers)

      Brady / Goff (Mahomes / Brees)

      Brady / Foles (Bortles / Bradford)

      Brady / Ryan (Roethlisberger / Rodgers)

      Manning / Newton (Brady / Palmer)

      There’s a fair lot of mediocrity there

      • Rob Staton

        Exactly this

      • BobbyK

        Newton is mediocre today but he was NFL MVP the year he played in the Super Bowl. Matt Ryan is probably a fringe Hall of Famer (he’s not quite a HOFer in my book) but he did win NFL MVP the year he played in the Super Bowl, too. And Carson Wentz was on his way to being NFL MVP the year Foles took over late.

        I see franchise QBs (Brady, Brady, Brady, Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Rodgers, Mahomes, Mahomes, Brees) greatly outnumbering the clowns.

        Clowns: Jimmy Garbage, Tennehill, Goff, Bortles, Case Keenum, Palmer.

        I’m not quite sure where to put Peyton Manning because the year he won the Super Bowl, he was basically washed up – even though he’s a future Hall of Famer. However, for all the people who seem to think the Seahawks can’t win a Super Bowl because Russ makes too much – they need to understand that average Manning that year made lots of money and took up a good chunk of cap space, too.

        All I know is the only thing that matters is winning Super Bowls and the last 4 of the last 5 Super Bowl winners are future HOFers.

        If anything, that comparison shows you can get to the final four with clowns, but the odds continually favor great QBs over the mediocre QBs. That list is a good snapshot.

        • line_hawk

          And I will add that among the list of clowns – Jimmy Garbage, Tennehill, Goff, Bortles, Case Keenum, Palmer

          Their teams lost because of them. If Jimmy, Goff, Bortles or Palmer were a bit more effective, their teams would have won it all. Its not impossible to get to CCG or Super bowl with a dominant defense. But, once you are there, having a good QB makes a huge difference. Its no co-incidence that 4 out of past 5 SB winners are named Brady or Mahomes.

          • Rob Staton

            Really? So the Vikings weren’t swept away by the brilliant Eagles? Bortles and the Jags weren’t screwed by the refs and/or couldn’t stop the Pats offense at all near the end? Was it Tannehill’s fault he couldn’t out-gun an inspired Mahomes? And Carson Palmer was to blame, was he, for the Cardinals not beating the 15-1 Panthers with the league MVP?

            Come on. You’ve not got any evidence to back that counter up.

            • BobbyK

              I agree the Jags should definitely have gone to that Super Bowl. I do remember him having a near miss late (kind of like Jimmy Garbage late in the SB last year).

              I also know Case Keenum got lucky as heck beating Brees to be on the list (Minnesota Miracle), too.

              I would say that of that list… you have individual guys (Bortles, Goff, Keenum, Jimmy Garbage, etc.) who aren’t good that only appear on that list once. You can get there with these quality guys, but you’re not going to get there with any consistency.

              But part of mine is cherry picking and I don’t want to do that. Guys like Wilson – if he’s as great as we thought he was or could be again – he doesn’t even appear on that list, whereas Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers appear multiple times like the franchise QBs they are/were.

              I made a mistake earlier putting Carson Palmer in my clown group. He was a solid NFL QB who had a pretty good career. Not a bum by any stretch of the imagination, just not a HOFer either. I’d take a 22-year old Carson Palmer for the Seahawks in the upcoming draft if we could get him.

              • dcd2

                That’s the thing though. Where is our $35M man on this list? Having a HOF QB doesn’t entitle you to playoff success. Goff and Baker are still playing, while RW and Deshaun are watching from home.

                If we relied on great QB play to compete, I’d agree that trading RW would be a non-starter.

                Trevor and I argued that RW should be traded prior to his first big contract until we were blue in the face and no one wanted to hear it. The argument hasn’t changed. If Pete is going to play PeteBall we don’t need a $35M, HOF QB. Why pay a QB that much to throw 11 completions for 174 yards in the playoffs? On top of that, he’s our most valuable trade chip, our biggest potential cost savings and isn’t getting any younger.

  58. JJ

    One thing I have been thinking about is how many of these qb’s that have previously won super bowls over the last 10-15 years other than Brady that have gotten paid went on to win another super bowl. Brees, Roethlisberger, haven’t sniffed the super bowl since they won. Manning won, but he was on his last legs and relied on a great defense and running game.

    They have all been successful for the past decade, but their teams haven’t taken that next step.

    I don’t want to see Wilson go, but maybe a change of scenery for all might be best for all.

    • BobbyK

      Rapistberger has been to a pair of Super Bowls after he won his first. He won another and lost. That’s more than sniffing. Brees has been close a few times, too.

      • Jordan E

        lmao rapistberger.

        On a related note, talked to a bears and bills fan today. They were absolutely shocked at the idea of trading Wilson. Bears fan said he would happily trade multiple first round picks for him. Franchise QBs don’t grow on trees. Maybe only trade Russ if we get a kings ransom. He is definitely a “buy low” guy right now.

        • Matt

          Weirdly enough…a “buy low” scenario probably helps the Seahawks in the sense of getting more teams involved. It’s prohibitive, in a way, to basically have only a team or 2 that could truly afford to do a deal like that.

          I think Miami is clearly the top destination when you factor resources, location, quality of team and coaching staff. In fact…if Miami brass is smart – I’d be going to the Seahawks and saying we are happy to part with #3 and #18 for RW – at least start the conversation.

          • Jordan E

            #3 and #18 would be worth it. Especially if we could land a Justin Fields then to this team.

            • Matt

              For what Pete wants to do – there are 3 legit options: Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Trey Lance. #3 obviously guarantees one of those guys. And if they were willing to risk it – could probably get Trey at #18 or a slight trade up.

              • Rob Staton

                I think a lot of QB’s can do what Pete wants to be fair.

                I think Davis Mills, Mac Jones and Kellen Mond could work in this offense.

                Pete’s had a lot of different QB’s over the years. If you can get it downfield you’re pretty much there.

                • Matt

                  Oh I totally agree with that – I was merely referring to the “top of the draft” options.

                  Mills is a really intriguing one because I think he would easily provide the best value and could see the field right away. IMO, he’d be an incredible “we got the 25th pick from Jacksonville for Jamal Adams and secured Davis with that pick.”

                  *Way too perfect world scenario, but Mills is a stud.

                  Mac Jones is a really interesting one because of the limited athleticism – I could totally see Pete swinging the pendulum to someone like that merely because they can’t get themselves into trouble with huge-loss sacks.

                  • Matt

                    Trevor Lawrence aside – it wouldn’t shock me if Wilson and Lance were the 2 highest QBs on the Hawks board. There’s very much a Josh Allen-Patrick Mahomes feel to those 2…and I don’t mean “NFL studs.” Merely, they were not viewed as “the guys” in their draft. They come from less than ideal college situations – not that BYU and NDSU are bad; both good programs – but they aren’t exactly throwing to a bunch of high picks.

                    That’s the one thing that would make me thing that Mac Jones and Justin Fields are lower on their boards.

                    This whole dialogue is fascinating because none of it seems outlandish.

      • JJ

        He was still on rookie contract for the 2nd super bowl.

      • Big Mike

        Brees would’ve been in a second time rather than Goff if not for the worst no call in the history of the NFL

  59. millhouse-serbia

    Russ will have presser today at 1pm pnw time. He obviously has something to say.

    • Matt

      Wait what?? Is this really happening?

    • TomLPDX

      Here’s the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ZswJhIhJ4

      • Matt

        Oh…thought this was separate. Nothing will be divulged here sans RW’s usual bromide ridden talking points.

    • John


    • BobbyK

      I don’t think this is going to be good. Bad feeling.

      As appealing as it is to trade a game manager, kind of like John Elway was for Dan Reeves, I think I remember too much of Kelly Stouffer, Dan McGwire, Jeff Kemp, Stan Gelbaugh, Rick Mirer, John Friesz, Tarvaris Jackson… those were such miserable years.

      Maybe we can dump Wilson and his $35 million for a bum like Teddy Bridgewater and his 3-year $63 million deal. That’d free up a lot of money for other players like Mayowa, Hollister, Finney, Hyde, and Ogbuehi.

      We could get Tannehill and his 4-year $118 million deal. Even Case Keenum got 2-years $36 million a couple years ago. That’s a “pretty good” investment. These crap QBs get paid, too. Even a guy like Goff counted $34.6 million against the cap this year after signing his 4-year $134 million extension. Is this what we’re going to be looking for – scrap heap QBs who will still get paid a lot of money?

      People seem to think that getting rid of Russ and his $35 million means adding $35 million for other positions. It. does. not. First, you have to replace your franchise QB with another QB. Say it’s Bridgewater and his $21 million per year. Great. Then you actually only have $14 million to spend. Would we have been better off using that $14 million on Clowney this past year and Bridgewater over Wilson? I wouldn’t.

      • Rob Staton

        I think this is simply going to be a mundane, run of the mill end of season press conference.

        Wilson will say a bunch of nice things about Schotty.

        He will be ultra positive, he will say they will come back strongly again next year.

        He will end with ‘Go Hawks’.

        And we won’t learn anything.

        But it will be interesting if he expresses a desire to have a say in the OC search. And I hope someone asks him about whether he’s comfortable playing in the offense Pete described, or whether he’d prefer to ‘cook’.

        • BobbyK


        • Ashish

          Russ do you still need press conference? Add some silly questions being asked.

        • cha

          A pint says MSD will ask a completely ridiculous question.

          • Hawks_Gui

            He said on twitter, he was planning on asking if he could join Russ podcast hahahaha

            • cha

              Was he joking or serious?

              ASKING to be invited just seems really odd if he was serious.

              • Rob Staton

                Well, you know, why wouldn’t you go from interviewing world famous celebrities and athletes to… a local sports journalist.

      • Ashish

        Only if we draft QB and trade Russ make sense. Trading to Jet will be ideal to get #2.

        • BobbyK

          The only way I’d be okay trading Russ is if we got the first or second overall pick. That’s it. Unless the haul made the Hershel Walker trade look like small potatoes.

          • Rob Staton

            I would take a top-three pick.

      • Jordan E

        Very good point! Yes, trading Russ requires signing a new QB who will be expensive- in addition to huge cap hit of Wilson- and we would need to have a very high draft pick for QB.

  60. Doug M

    The part that I don’t understand is the contract extension for Carroll. Ownership, even while dealing with the passing of Paul Allen, must’ve known Wilson and Carroll are not on the same page with the offense or their legacies. In extending Carroll, they effectively made it a one or the other situation. Why would you side with the 70 year old over a franchise QB with potentially a decade of football left, unless there are plans for Carroll with the Seahawks after coaching?

  61. ElroyNumbers

    Schotty mutual parting ways. The consensus thought is it relates to Carroll wanting to run his type of offense – run first with play action deep. Focus on defense and run. Maybe it’s more complicated than that. Anywho to me it seems like Pete was behind trades for harvin and graham. Or at least signed off on them. Those trades seemed aimed at creating a more explosive offense rather than a focus on run game and defense. Maybe we got it wrong regarding Pete being solely focused on run game and defense.

  62. Rob Staton

    There are some really crappy mock drafts out there in the draft media right now.

    • JJ

      Who do you typically follow for mocks?

      • Rob Staton

        None really. I just see whichever ones pop up on my timeline.

        This years crop are really bad. Just don’t get what they’re seeing.

    • BobbyK

      Most of these mocks are crap each year. It seems most just piggy back off of what others say.

      You are unusual in that you have plenty names that end up going early that most people don’t have in their early mocks.

      You’re really just that much better than most.

  63. Rob Staton

    Classic Josina.

    Touting her friends for jobs… and then 24 hours later reporting that her friend doesn’t want the jobs…


  64. cha

    Anyone else getting a strange feel from RW wearing a SB48 hoodie for his interview?

    • Rob Staton

      I just hope some proper questions get asked

      • Rob Staton

        So far Wilson talking as much guff as Carroll

        • Rob Staton

          “Do you see your long term future with this team, playing in Pete Carroll’s offense?”

          I dare someone to ask it.

    • cha

      Buffalo game – ‘we didn’t get the ball in the first quarter much, didn’t get the ball until late in the 4th quarter, 2nd and 3rd we did quite a lot’. Translation: Defense stunk in the Buffalo game. He’s not wrong.

    • downtownjewelrybryan

      his style coach told him to put it on

  65. Magmatizer

    Kudos to Ian Furness on broaching the topic of Russell having input on the OC hire.

    • Magmatizer

      FWIW, he said it is critical that he is involved given where he is in his career.

  66. James Cr.

    One thing I don’t get is that Russ wants to play faster tempo, but isn’t that in complete contradiction to Pete wanting ball control, clock control, low scoring close games style?

  67. Matt

    I’m probably alone on this – but is anybody else just kind of sick of RW press conferences?

    Don’t get me wrong – it was endearing when he was an underrated 3rd round pick…I simply find myself being annoyed now and can’t help but fight the notion that he’s just a really simple thinker. I’m not calling him dumb by any means…but, it’s just a bunch of empty fart sounds with him.

    I don’t know what to think about the future with RW and PC…but one thing is for sure – they are both delusional in their optimism. Don’t get me wrong – I’m an optimist by nature; but it rings so damn hollow when there’s never a critical word ever said. And I’m not talking about calling guys out, etc – but a simple, “yea, myself and the offense sucked against the Rams,” would be a welcome quote.

    Instead, we get the “well you know we broke records…fart fart fart. FART. Fart fart fart.”

    • Rohan Raman

      He’s a careful speaker and doesn’t want to offend anyone or stir up controversy. Optimism is also a lot easier for people to stomach, so his detractors have much less ammo to get from his comments. To be fair, Rodgers and Brady are really the only QBs that are pretty blunt with the media.

      And as we saw this offseason, he rarely communicates through the press conferences.

      I would like for him to take more responsibility and make a public commitment to holding himself responsible for the offense’s struggles. To me, that kind of attitude is what is gonna propel us back to the SB (among other things). I’d appreciate him saying “We need to do a better job of game plannning for our opponents and that starts with me as the QB. I’m gonna use this offseason to figure out how I can not only do that for myself, but help those around me do it.”.

      • Matt

        Totally fair. And don’t get me wrong…I don’t want him to be an ass just to be an ass.

        But there is something about the flowery demeanor that doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence with the urgency and willingness to make difficult changes.

        And I get different things motivate different people – but man would it be nice to get a little fire every once in awhile. I was always fiery when I played baseball – so maybe it’s just my own bias but I remember being thoroughly annoyed with college teammates who kind of always had the “everything’s great!” attitude. Get pissed every once in awhile! Show me a pulse, dammit.

        • Rohan Raman

          We need a Sherm typa guy on this team. A dude who speaks his mind and could give a f*** what others think.

          • Matt


            My dad co-owned a very successful home building business. He is the nicest guy you’d ever meet…he would have utterly failed if his business partner wasn’t an ass kicker. Conversely, his partner wouldn’t have succeeded without him putting fires out.

            That’s what this formula is missing. They need a “f!!! you” guy.

  68. Rob Staton

    This Russell Wilson press conference is MUCH more interesting than I thought it would be.

    He’s basically throwing the gauntlet down to the franchise on the next OC and the style of offense.

    He’s contradicting so much of what Carroll has said.

    • Matt

      That’s good to hear! I turned it off after 5 minutes because I couldn’t stand the usual schtick.

      What stood out to you?

    • cha

      It sounds like he’s confirming he did have the conversation last year about getting the offense up tempo and passing more early in the game. He reiterated that desire again.

      Made some strong statements about being involved in the process. ’10 years in the league’ ‘hope to partner in the decision’

      • cha

        Asked about the new OC, he rambled on for a few minutes but mentioned DK and Tyler 3-4 times. Never mentioned a running back or the running game.

        • Matt

          OH boy….gonna have to re-watch this thing. Kicking myself for turning it off.

          • dcd2

            You can click on it and scroll back to where you left off. Youtube streams are great like that. Pause it and make a sandwich… right back to where you paused.

            • Matt

              Taking your word and doing this very thing.

      • cha

        “My goal is to throw for the most touchdowns ever, and win the most Super Bowls”

        • Matt

          Holy moly…ok – so he’s really going for it. Props to him.

          Hoping he and Pete can agree and work it out. If not – then they need to move on and sounds like it’d be mutually agreed to/beneficial.

          • cha

            He denied there is any tension or disagreement between them.

            But he said that about most TD’s right after talking about running the ball. Implication of ‘yeah, we want to run the ball, but also..’

            • Matt

              Oh I would never expect him to admit tension. I mean shoot…he could get traded and still not say a bad thing, in that regard.

  69. James Cr.

    Just not seeing how the PC and RW union can last much longer.

  70. cha

    So he’s said a couple times Schottenheimer leaving was “Pete’s call”.

    Are we talking about Pete made the decision to go back to run heavy (that was his call) and Schottenheimer said ‘no thanks’ and left? Or is he saying Pete fired Schottenheimer?

    Also said he wasn’t in agreement with it. But reiterates desire to get better.

    • Rob Staton

      Well we know per the reports that they didn’t agree on the way forward

    • Magmatizer

      This may be the closest to controversial as a RW presser has ever been.

    • cha

      Also asked if he was most efficient when they’re running well, pointed to the first few games of the season.

      Oh my.

  71. BobbyK

    You can have an offense that runs the ball and a QB who can throw for the most TDs if you’ve got a situation like Pete had at USC with LenWhale and Reggie Bush. You can hammer the rock and have a plethora of splash plays… but you’ve gotta have the talent.

    I think Pete said it best when he said LG was an area to improve, because they seem set at:

    LT: Brown
    C: Pocic
    RG: Lewis
    RT: Shell

    I included Pocic because it sounds like Pete wants him back. He said he’ll improve with more experience (which he will). Their OT play is good. Brown is a stud and Shell is better than I thought he’d be. He’s not as bad as Ifedi, not that that’s saying a whole lot.

    We know Pocic/Lewis will improve. But they need a major upgrade at LG. You can’t pound the rock if you don’t have enough pounders.

    If Pete doesn’t add both a good LG and RB – we’ll be right back here next year with another disappointing season. What we have at both positions currently isn’t good enough for a legit Super Bowl contender. They’re legit contenders to be good, but there’s a big difference between that and being legit Super Bowl Champions.

    • Rob Staton

      Sign a Brandon Scherff type.

      Draft Javonte Williams.

      • BobbyK

        I’m in!

    • JLemere

      Personally, I think RW missed Justin Britt and wouldn’t be surprised if PC also feels the same way.

    • SeattleLifer

      Hard for me to say they seem set if they pick up a left guard after watching that Rams playoff game. I’ll say it with absolute belief that there probably isn’t a QB in the league who could have guided us to a win behind that o-line performance(maaaaybe Mahomes?). We weren’t dominated we were utterly destroyed all game long and anyone who disagrees should rewatch the game and hard focus on the o-line.

      LT Brown, great performance overall this year but he did have his troubles at times against the higher tier d-line players and injuries have been a near constant for him for years now(yes I know this year was better but it’s lurking) and he’s not getting younger either. So solid player but a good amount of risk involved in many areas.

      Pocic, I don’t see how so many thought he did so well. Sure he looked pretty good early in the season when things were clicking when we were playing against a bunch of terrible d-lines but once the competition stepped up he stepped back. He was decidedly mediocre all around and against better players was borderline a liability. He got handled far too often in pass pro and there was a reason why we never ran for important short gains behind him – because he couldn’t push the pile and often was shoved back even run blocking. Hard pass.

      Lewis, everyone raved about him all year and for a rookie he really did quite well but for me he’s another guy that did’nt look as good facing off against better d-liners. His college criticism of being poor in pass pro did show up a fair bit in games as well, a good number of games he received poor to awful pass pro grades (yes PFF but o-line and d-line I think are pretty representative actually). So pretty good player but certainly room for improvements most especially in pass protection.

      She’ll, I’m a bit torn on him. He really did look solid for a good stretch of the season yet had some pretty rough games here and there – especially as the season wore on(and as a recurring theme – as we played better d-lines). In a perfect world we’d have a better player and just where he came from(and how he had played for his former team) in free agency should be cause for caution. I think he’s a perfect backup who should be making around 3.5 million but I think he’s a bit suspect overall.

      I really think we need to look at last seasons o-line in a more critical vacuum – like their body of work over the second half of the season/against decent to good d-lines, to get a real picture of what to expect going forward. For me and just on that playoff game alone I would want changes everywhere but LT and RG and that’s assuming we pick up a semi capable backup LT and Lewis can improve some in pass pro.

      • BobbyK

        I agree with some of what you wrote, but I’m projecting things towards 2021. Not last weekend.

        Pocic and Lewis will both be better next year than they were this year. Each will be a year closer to their prime. Aaron Donald will still be great, but he’ll be hitting 30. Father time is undefeated.

        Brown isn’t improving at LT, but Shell coming back is good. That’s more continuity with Lewis. The OL is set up to improve at C, RG, RT.

      • BobbyK

        You also realize you’re comparing the OL to the best DL in the NFL, right?

  72. SoCalHawkFan

    Are some of you aware of where Adams was taken? If we’d had wanted to trade up to the 6th pick in the draft don’t you think it’d have taken 2 firsts? That’s before you know if the player is a bust or not. I think we can all agree he’s a future HOF if he stays healthy. I think the Hawks and Jets belived we’d go further in the playoffs so they thought it’d be 2-1st round picks arounLd the 30th of the draft give or take a couple spots.

    Another thing I like to touch on is everyone saying we have to resogn Caron. I hope someone pays him all the money so we may get a compensatory pick for him. The question I have is this. Do you prefer paying him $8-10 million and having another LG like Iupati making $3.5 million or spending $8-10 million on a LG and $3.5 million on a RB and letting Penny have a shot at living up to his potential? I think we can all agree a LG plays all 3 downs including 3rd and longs at which point sometimes you go empty backfield? I’d invest in a real C that doesn’t let the pocket collapse every other play effecting the vision of Russell!! If you go back and watch Procic he always gets pushed around. Even at 6′ 6″ and what 320lbs? Let’s get a real C with experience to put with Lewis and all those recent G prospects we’ve drafted and try to come up with a line that can grow together for the next 3-4 yrs as Wilson ages.

    Everyone says Wilson forced them to open up the offense and I believe Carroll let them. He decided to allow them more freedom with the offense and we all saw the effect of that. After all the turnovers after defenses adapred to our NEW offensive play calling he asked them to reign it back and adjust it to counter the new defenses they’d seen and the inability to adapt ut is what ultimately got Schotty shown the door. I believe Carroll will sit down and talk.with Russell and explain he isn’t completely closing down the passing attack but wants to balance it out so the defensive coaches don’t guess pass 75% of the time. Also I think he’d like to see more 3 step drops not 7 step drops. Pass plays shouldn’t all take 4-5 seconds to develope. Remeber when Dissly led the NFL in touchdown catches year before last until he was injured? How many times was he even the ball this year? I’m hoping we get someone with a Westcoast Offensive scheme or someone whom can study the Pats offense when they had Brady and steal 50-60 plays from them.

    Lastly I think we missed Snacks in the playoff game as we missed that run stuffing DT and the Rams saw the Reed injury in the 49ers game the week before and said let’s try to go over his hole double teaming him. They tried it a d never quit. Our interior play doomed us from what I remembered in the loss to the Rams as they really shoved it down our throats. Hopefully we can find a 330lb stuffer in this draft or FA because Mone or Ford couldn’t hold’em up.

    Just a few things I think may be better for next year but I don’t know shut compared to the experts or people within the organization. I’m just a Hawks fan since the beginning. I’m excited for next year and can’t wait to see what we do in FA and the draft. Go Hawks!!!

    • Rob Staton

      Are some of you aware of where Adams was taken?


      If we’d had wanted to trade up to the 6th pick in the draft don’t you think it’d have taken 2 firsts?

      And then we would’ve spent considerable time debating whether it was worth trading into the top six just to draft a blitzing safety with not-great coverage skills instead of a tackle, pass rusher etc.

      I think we can all agree he’s a future HOF if he stays healthy.

      Can we safely say that???

      I think it’s quite an assumption to suggest that Adams is on a Hall of Fame trajectory so far.

      I think the Hawks and Jets belived we’d go further in the playoffs so they thought it’d be 2-1st round picks arounLd the 30th of the draft give or take a couple spots.

      You’d like to think they thought they’d pick later than 23rd overall, after giving up so much for one player in an attempt to reach the promise land. Hopefully they are quite angry about the fact this trade only helped them reach… the wildcard round. Where they were hammered by a division rival in embarrassing fashion.

      Another thing I like to touch on is everyone saying we have to resogn Caron.

      Who is saying this? I haven’t seen anyone saying we have to re-sign Carson. In the podcast yesterday, Robbie & I both said he’s too injury prone.

      I’d invest in a real C that doesn’t let the pocket collapse every other play effecting the vision of Russell!! If you go back and watch Procic he always gets pushed around. Even at 6′ 6″ and what 320lbs? Let’s get a real C with experience to put with Lewis and all those recent G prospects we’ve drafted and try to come up with a line that can grow together for the next 3-4 yrs as Wilson ages.

      I’ve been saying they should do this for weeks.

      Everyone says Wilson forced them to open up the offense and I believe Carroll let them.

      It was reported (and never denied) in the national media that he offered the team an ultimatum.

      After all the turnovers after defenses adapred to our NEW offensive play calling he asked them to reign it back and adjust it to counter the new defenses they’d seen and the inability to adapt ut is what ultimately got Schotty shown the door.

      It’s already been reported that the Seahawks weren’t planning a change of OC and it only occurred when PC and BS disagreed on the direction of the offense.

    • BobbyK

      I believe Adams was well worth the 6th overall pick in the draft. However, when you draft that player – you want him to be good (Adams is that) and you expect him on a cheap contract for 4 years (with a team option for year 5). That’s nice.

      Remember the last years before the new CBA? Nobody wanted to trade up anymore. Why? Those ridiculous rookie contracts! People didn’t want to pay those salaries! Remember how much Aaron Curry got? Russell Okung? Nobody wanted those picks because they didn’t want to pay for the player financially AND with draft picks.

      Well, when the Seahawks traded for Adams… they knew they were going to need to give him a huge contract soon.

      I’ll tell you this. If the Hawks had made that trade last year and got Adams at #6 – I’d be fine with it. He’d be cost effective for 3 more years before his team option. But I’m not fine when he’s going to kill their salary cap. I’m only okay with franchise players killing the cap (like Russ, and as I said yesterday, Aaron Rodgers makes $1.5 million less than Rodgers per year so it’s not like it isn’t possible to win with a QB making a lot of money) but not trading a boatload of picks AND paying them, too.

  73. SoCalHawkFan

    We can always franchise tag Adams and trade him for a 1st like Frank Clark. I’m a firm believer that HC like Carroll will find a way to scheme him into the game and find a way for him to make plays. I think his injuries played a part in his coverages and he’s young enough to learn to be better in coverages. How many DE’s in the NFL this year making $15 million or more had as many sacks as him? I have no doubt in my mind that we could go with a 3-3-5 with him as a LB in passing situations and having a big non pass rushing DE like Red Bryant and payying Adams for his pass rushing ability like a pass rushing DE whom.covers a RB out the back field much better then a DLineman. With an off season and training camp next year I’d like to see them work different coverages into the defense that QB’s haven’t seen before in the NFL. At least if for only 3rd and longs. We can put Blair as the SS or another S currently not on the roster. I love the guy and think he could be a difference maker and even after the limited coverage he had this year he was still an All Pro.

    • Rob Staton

      How many DE’s in the NFL this year making $15 million or more had as many sacks as him?

      You cannot make that comparison.

      A defensive end has to beat a blocker, maybe two, to rush the edge, often in base.

      Jamal Adams is schemed into a free run to the quarterback, often by creating A-gap pressure to draw protection.

      If you asked Carlos Dunlap whether he could get 10 sacks in 12 games if you give him a free run to the QB, he will say I’ll get you 20 sacks.

      he was still an All Pro

      It really doesn’t mean anything.

      Cole Beasley was a second team all-pro.

  74. SoCalHawkFan


    Do you think that maybe PC didn’t expect to let BS go until he’d got together with the GM? I kind of wonder if JS maybe got with him and they decided together to let him go and the differences theme is a smoke screen?

    Who would you like to see them get for C?

  75. SoCalHawkFan

    I believe you could use it like Rocky Long has. You just line him up outside the DE on whichever side you prefer. You force the T to decide to slide out with Adams which many don’t have the agility to do or stay inside with the DE. Once in awhile you loop him inside or even drop him back underneath and brong Brooks or Wags.

  76. line_hawk

    For as much rep as Carson gets for being inured, I won’t be surprised if he goes to a less physical & more creative offense that doesn’t punish him every play. Part of me wants him to leave & try to have a healthy career.

    The Pete Carroll RB is destined to be injured. No back can make the season with the punishment he takes. Happened to every RB since Lynch.

  77. Poli

    Would Seahawks ownership really chose Pete Carroll over Russell Wilson?

    I’d be so bummed if they traded Wilson for what they gave up for the Strong Safety, I’d probably not feel like watching a Seahawks games for a while, or never again.

    Just get Wilson a head coach like the Packers did for Rodgers.

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