Thoughts on the Seahawks trading Percy Harvin to the Jets

October 18th, 2014 | Written by Rob Staton

Percy Harvin on the day he joined the Seahawks

1. Seattle is clearly cutting its losses
Albert Breer says Percy Harvin has anger management issues. Mike Freeman quotes a Seahawks source suggesting Harvin “didn’t want” to be in Seattle. Lance Zierlein reckons Harvin could’ve brought down team chemistry “single handed” and that Seattle had concern for Russell Wilson after he challenged the receivers attitude. Jason Cole suggests Seattle’s locker room has been “oddly tense” since March. Bob Condotta reports Harvin didn’t travel to the final pre-season game in Oakland after an altercation with Doug Baldwin. Jay Glazer, who broke the story, says it was simply time to move on.

Forget ‘no smoke without fire’ — there’s flames everywhere. Reporters are lining up with information on a bad locker room dynamic with Harvin at the heart of it all. There’s probably a little team PR involved. Why not? This trade is even more shocking, even more headline grabbing than the deal that took Harvin to Seattle in the first place.

To give up on a player who cost first, third and seventh round picks after just eight games is unheard of. Reports are suggesting the Seahawks will receive a conditional 2015 pick in the rounds 2-4 range. Nothing more needs to be said. Seattle clearly saw Harvin as a cancer in that locker room and they’re moving on.

2. The trade was a disaster
Not only did Seattle give up costly first and third round picks, they also coughed up a huge salary on a new contract. Money that technically could’ve gone to Golden Tate or Breno Giacomini or keeping Red Bryant and/or Chris Clemons. It’s not hard to imagine a fractured locker room after losing integral veteran personalities this year at the expense of what appears to be a great big pain in the ass — an outsider earning the most corn. It’s a recipe for disaster.

There’s nothing to say the Seahawks would’ve ponied up for Tate or kept Bryant and Clemons. But they would’ve had the option.

Making matters worse is the sheer background knowledge Seattle had on Harvin. Pete Carroll recruited him. Darrell Bevell worked with him in Minnesota. Sidney Rice and Tarvaris Jackson played with him. They had as much information as anyone. Everyone knew about “Percy World”, the nagging injuries, the attitude. Seattle were drawn in by a decidedly poor draft class and took a punt on a spectacular athlete. They aren’t the first franchise to make a deal that flopped and they’ll be praised for acting decisively and not compounding the issue. But it’s only fair to note this one as a gigantic bust and question whether they should’ve known better given the depth of their background with Harvin.

3. What does it mean for the future?
In the immediate, Paul Richardson and Kevin Norwood will get more snaps. The Seahawks could acquire another receiver — but dealing for another hot-head like Mike Williams seems like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

The offense could take a hit. They clearly worked hard to implement Harvin and he had a significant impact in all three of Seattle’s wins. Now the Seahawks don’t have any unique size at receiver and they don’t have an explosive athlete who doubles as a major production machine and kick return specialist. Yes, it’s still a Super Bowl winning offense. They’ll have to play like one over the next few weeks.

Crucially the main question is — does this repair the locker room? With all these reports claiming Harvin was clashing with other receivers and the quarterback and struggling with anger issues — he’s still received support tonight on Twitter from people like Marshawn Lynch. Are their divides? Is their any ill-feeling? Can they go back to the band-of-brothers style mentality that helped this team win a Championship?

The wide-ranging value of the deal (conditional R2-4) suggests it’s probably unlikely they’ll see a second rounder. Who knows. Maybe it requires the Jets to make the post season or something else ridiculous (they’re 1-6). It brings receiver back into the debate moving forward. Jermaine Kearse is a free agent in 2015 and there’s no guarantee Kevin Norwood has the kind of impact their hoping for (or Paul Richardson for that matter). We’ve talked about him a lot but keep an eye on West Virginia’s Kevin White. He’s in the 6-2/6-3 range, he’s extremely competitive on the field and he’s having a Biletnikoff season for the Mountaineers.

This might have a lasting impact on the number of high profile trades within the NFL, which is a shame. Both big deals ahead of the 2013 draft (Harvin to Seattle, Darrelle Revis to Tampa Bay) backfired. Neither player lasted more than a season and a half before being moved on.

The Seahawks now have a lot more cap room for 2015. That’ll help them tie up long term deals for the likes of Wilson, Wagner and Wright. They will have the money to retain Cliff Avril if they want to. They could make a splash in free agency — with the likes of Ndamukong Suh hitting the market.

4. What could’ve been?
The 2013 draft class provided better value outside of the first round than it did in the first frame. It was understandable at the time why Seattle took a chance on Harvin and hey — he’ll always have that kick return for a touchdown in the Super Bowl. If it was his only meaningful contribution, it’s a lasting one.

People can point to Cordarrelle Patterson and say he was a cheaper alternative with the #25 pick Seattle dealt to Minnesota. Patterson is a complete enigma. Yes he’s explosive and physically excellent. He also can’t run a proper route, shows inconsistent effort and cannot be trusted to have a wide ranging role in the Vikings offense. It’s no fluke he’s disappeared since a productive opening week performance against St. Louis.

The Seahawks could’ve drafted DeAndre Hopkins (who landed in Houston) — a player now famous for a poor attempt at a fumble recovery against the Colts. It’s worth remembering Hopkins was ultra competitive in college and looked like a fit on this team. But again, you can see why they made the deal. There’s not an obvious alternative who went in that 25-32 range at the end of round one. I guess they could’ve tried to move up the board using the third and seventh they spent on Harvin. I’m not convinced that would’ve been enough to get up to the #13-14 range where Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotulelei were taken. The Seahawks need an interior pass rusher.

The ‘what could’ve been’ scenario lends itself more to maintaining the existing group together as discussed earlier. Right now it’d be good to have Golden Tate back in the roster, that’s for sure. Let’s be brutally honest here. After Seattle moved for Harvin, San Francisco traded for Anquan Boldin. Seahawks fans scoffed at that move. The 49ers now have probably the most clutch receiver in football, Seattle has a conditional mid round pick.

5. What now?
Winning will make people forget about this story. The onus is now on the remaining offense to step up, starting in St. Louis on Sunday. And they’ll need to step up with so many injuries on defense (Jordan Hill and Cassius Marsh the latest setbacks) If they muddle through the season then there’s no getting away from it — the whole Harvin situation will be discussed and debated and people will ask about the long term impact. If this trade repairs some of the reported internal damage and helps get things back on track — everyone will move on.

Yet there’s no getting away from it. Forget Charlie Whitehurst. Forget Matt Flynn. This trade will go down as the biggest flop of the Pete Carroll/John Schneider era.

85 Responses to “Thoughts on the Seahawks trading Percy Harvin to the Jets”

  1. Colin says:

    Bob Condotta is reporting that Percy Harvin refused to go back into the Dallas game, and that was the final straw. He missed 11 of the final 17 snaps. Unbelievable. What a selfish little S***head.

    Total flop. Forget the draft picks, losing Tate and Clemons is the real loss.

    We’ll see more Derrick Coleman with Russ under center tomorrow.

  2. Cysco says:

    nice write-up Rob (as usual)

    The whole Harvin thing was a disaster, no doubt. It shows that the front office is not too afraid to risk making a mistake. They knew full and well that the deal could blow up on them. They were willing to risk it. I give them credit for trying, and more credit for taking care of the problem.

    It’s easy for us to look back and “what if”. I seriously doubt PCJS are doing the same. They’re looking forward, figuring out how to make the team better. In a little time, the fans will be too.

    I still have the utmost faith in the front office. This team is too good and our front office too smart not to survive this. Next man up.

    • neil says:

      You have faith in the front office ? I dont. They supposedly did extensive research into Harvins physical and personel backround, RIGHT. Hip surgery right after he got here, and they had Rice and Bevell to tell them about Harvins corrosive and disruptive lockerroom behaviour. geniouses ? I think not. 3 picks for Harvin , 2 or 3 for Whitehurst, 2 or three for Flynn, Come on man. I think the Cowboys would tell you of the value of first round picks, three of them on that terrific o line. With the 67 mill they were going to pay Harvin they could have kept last years team in tact. Tate, Clemmons, and Giacomini could still be here. Yes Giacomint ! I believe the miss him more than they thought they would. He was the tough guy, enforcer, on the line. Yes he had some inopportune penalties { so does Okung} but I never saw him get physically picked up offf the ground and thrown back into Wilsons face like I saw this year with Britt.

      • AgentJ says:

        Pete was probably hoping he could fix Percy’s issues. It’s worked in the past. That kind of talent was worth taking a risk on.

      • mrpeapants says:

        wsnt Flynn a free agent? and I think we only gave up 1 pick for Whitehurst and traded 2s.

        other then that I believe your spot on. especially giacomini

        • Ben2 says:

          Yes Flynn was a free agent and I believe we swapped 2nd rounders with San Diego for white hurst …getting Golden with the 60th pick (the lower 2nd rounder from SD)

      • Coug1990 says:

        Neil, your right. John and Pete will never win a Super Bowl. They are awful and should be fired. If we cannot have confidence in them, then they are useless. Do you have any Ideas who should be hired instead of them.

    • JeffC says:

      I don’t have the utmost faith. But I have faith. JS and PC are human. They will win some and lose some. But this was a big big loss. This one will sting for a long time and will be remembered like the bosworth pick is remembered

  3. SeaTown says:

    Apparently this guy has the locker room divided. Amazing any player would side with this idiot. But if that is true, this team is done for the year. The team is fractured.

  4. mj says:

    Is it out of bounds to think Baldwin is an issue as well? He seems like he’s always in the middle of stirring the pot.

    • Hawkspur says:

      Wouldn’t surprise me at all. He’s the one player I find myself wanting to shut his mouth and get off twitter etc.

    • Bob Johnston says:

      ADB seems to get angry with guys not doing their best to make the team better. That may piss off the guy who’s being pointed out but I think most of the guys on the squad who were staying on the sidelines over the matter, despite probable growing resentment are probably going – “Whew, I’m glad someone finally said it”.

      From the outside looking in, this Hawk team is all about working together for the common good, a guy like Harvin who had the support of some but not all and obviously wasn’t a team player simply wasn’t going to fit. ADB is the complete opposite of Percy (again, from the outside looking in), team first and pushing guys to play to the best of their abilities. I’ll take one Baldwin over 10 Harvins any day of the week.

    • Rob Staton says:

      I suspect not given they rewarded him with a new deal. I know they paid Harvin too, but that was necessary after the trade. They knew all about Doug and still decided they absolutely had to keep him.

  5. Hawkspur says:

    I’m kind of surprised that they didn’t trade him in the offseason when his stock would surely have been higher. Looking at last season with the hindsight afforded by yesterday’s trade, the front office can’t have been happy about his decision to get surgery, his decision to make himself available only when the IR hammer was dropping and then apparently punching Golden Tate in the face just before the Superbowl.

    I can only guess that he’s ratcheted up his crapness since camp began this year to convince the FO to cut bait.

    Now we can only hope that there’s a Geno Atkins sitting there in the 3rd-4th round to take with the pick from the Jets to soften the blow.

    • Beanhawk says:

      I’m not sure his stock would have been all that much higher. If you were another gm, wouldn’t you be a little concerned if Schneider came to you asking what you might give for a finally healthy Percy Harvin?

      Also, it does sound like the final nails in the coffin have come over the past two months.

      But yes, let’s wish for a healthy Geno Atkins! I’m all onboard!

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        His stock was at the highest level after the Super Bowl. Any manager would understand if PC had said he was dumping salary. What is especially irritating is we aren’t even getting a player back, despite numerous needs.

  6. Cameron says:

    Good write-up Rob, and couldn’t agree more. Worst PCJS move than all the other bad moves combined, IMO.

  7. Mylegacy says:

    Rob, at best – addition by subtraction, at worse – capitulation.

    However, it clearly shows how significant the Cap is. If no Cap then we just bench the guy and use him in those situations when it’s clearly in our interest. Because of the Cap we “need” the few millions he liberates this year, by being traded mid-season, to be added to next years Cap – and the few millions it frees up then (after the sunk costs) to get guys like KG and Maxwell signed.

    With only Carp, Sweeney and Britt healthy on the OLine (Okung, Unger and Miller out or nearly so) I can see no short term potion to turn this ship around – unless…

    Pride – and a return to Baldwin and Kearse getting their catches like last year. Add in Lockette’s vertical speed and either Richardson or Norwood playing a Tate(ish) role and the flickering light at the end of the tunnel might, with luck, not be an oncoming train.

    I really do like that this team is prepared to think big, gamble big and still know when to “walk away, know when to run.” Speaking of which – time to get DaBeast the ball and find out if Michael has any (balls that is). If we overcome this challenge then Pride will have played a big role. What we need now is: Internally generated, externally applied – good old fashioned Pride – the kind all champions can use to get themselves past their problems and successful at the next level.

    I do love this game.

  8. Matt says:

    Golden Tate is laughing, but he wishes he was back on the hawks

    • BugJuice says:

      He may or may not wish he was with the Hawks but I wouldn’t bet on it. Lions are playing some good ball and they are in a much easier division. They are going to be players to the end

  9. M says:

    Ultimately, the Harvin trade is a complete fiasco for Seahawks

    It’s not the Jets that didn’t do their homework, it’s the Seahawks and this reflects poorly on Bevell who should’ve had the most insight into the situation.

    Harvin balking at going back into the game at a crucial point when his playmaking skills could’ve made all the difference. That can’t happen ever and when off-field became on-field, Carroll made exactly the right move and sent the right signal…zero tolerance and team first.

    Don’t think shipping out Harvin instantly solves the reported chemistry issues either but it probably stops the bleeding. The Baldwin incident and PC’s more pointed than usual response speaks volumes in this context.

    The Rams road game now takes on an interesting subtext…how well the Seahawks can put all this behind them.

  10. CC says:

    Tomorrow we see where this team is – are they “all in” or are they divided? Do they want to win, or are they unhappy and has Pete and or RW “lost” the locker room.

    I expect this team to respond and make a statement and a big win!

    It seems like the Seahawks did everything they could for Percy – much like a few other guys who put there own interests above the TEAM – and Percy didn’t figure out that it wasn’t all about him.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Tomorrow is such a fascinating game. San Fran thrived on the Harbaugh chatter and won three in a row. Can Seattle battle through a controversial story?

      • SeaTown says:

        Probably not. A house divided cannot stand. Plus the injuries. Tomorrow will be a disaster. ūüôĀ

        • CC says:

          Sea – I don’t think we know if they are united or divided yet – I’m not sure they are. But even if they are, we’ll have to see if it will be a disaster.

  11. jw says:

    Total fiasco of a trade.

    I was very disappointed they didn’t draft one of a number of WRs in that draft- I was surprised an athlete like Patterson was still around in the 20s, Hopkins, Hunter and Wheaton and Keenan Allen and even a weapon like Goodwin later. Trading back to get some of those guys, or taking Patterson or Hopkins or Hunter with that pick would have almost undoubtedly worked out better. BTW, I think it’s unfair to look at Patterson’s disappearance as a reflection on him. He’s a raw talent on a terrible offense- essentially their only weapon on a team that’s scored 13 pts over two games. If he’s an enigma, what was Percy? An enigma wrapped in a migraine. I really shook my head at taking Harvin over him- they’re very similar tools in the offense in the way they’re actually used. Patterson, Hopkins, and Hunter have been relatively productive and stand out in that draft class. What’s interesting is it’s such a departure from their general approach of trading away picks. I’m left wondering if there are lessons learned here for them.

    I do respect their ability to move forward and avoid sunk costs. Usually when a trade like this goes down, between a good organization and a bad org, the well run org wins. I suspect that will be the case. Percy will probably never achieve close to his potential and he’ll cost a fortune doing so.

    • Rob Staton says:

      Patterson just isn’t getting it though. On kick returns he’s fine — head down and run. Technically he’s all over the place. There’s more to his disappearance than simply a bad offense. They choose not to use him. That’s telling.

      • CC says:

        Agreed – I don’t think it does any good to try and guess who Seattle would have taken with that pick anyway – it likely wouldn’t have been a WR. And hindsight is 20/20 – there is no guarantee that any other first round pick would have done more than Percy (our first rounders except Earl have been so so.)

      • Ryan M says:

        How good would Datone Jones or Gio Bernard have looked on this team? What a shame…

      • Coug1990 says:

        Patterson has 17 receptions this season on 33 targets with zero TD’s.. That is horrible. He is not anything to write home about.

    • usually lurks says:

      It’s unfortunate that there’s (to my eye on Twitter and the likes of FieldGulls chat) an emerging consensus that gambling huge on Percy’s “upside” was still heroic, even if failed.

      I desperately hope that the front office doesn’t see it that way.

      The trade had a core process problem that entirely supersedes the specific result we see this week, even as catastrophic as the latter has been.

      Percy’s huge upside was always a mirage. Not that he’s not excellent at what he does — not that he’s not freakin’ electrifying! in his moments. But grant that he’s healthy and cooperative and on-point from day one throughout the life of the contract and his substantive contribution to the offense was still never going to justify what they paid for him. Seattle paid sticker price+ for a guy who’s an amazing athlete but just does not have the physical profile of a #1 receiver, on a team that desperately needed (and still needs) the latter, and at a time when they knew they were nearing cap crunches that should have caused them to value bargain contracts and draft capital far more highly. If considering Percy Harvin, Seattle should have been starting from a much lower point as the “ceiling” of his value, and then deducting from there a risk calculation based on his injury history, malcontent streak, and the opportunity cost of his contract. Maybe he’d be worth a throwaway day-three pick, like the Jets just paid for him.

      To some extent it’s less about the specific player Seattle would have drafted in 2013: hit or miss, they would have had a guy on a rookie contract to compete as depth at his position. (But there were plenty of hits: other players frequently mocked to Seattle include Zach Ertz, Kawann Short, and Alec Ogletree, all of whom were available and would look mighty fine right in a Hawks uniform right about now.) But there’s been much pooh-poohing of Cord Patterson to get 12s through the last 24 hours and that too is off-base.

      The minor reason is that *for the way Seattle actually used Harvin* — as a kick returner and as an in-space guy to catch screens and run end-arounds — Patterson’s skill set is actually just fine. Not up to Percy’s level? Who cares? He makes 10% of Percy’s salary. He comes with a free Golden Tate!

      But the major reason is that DeAndre Hopkins clearly looked (from physical profile and college production) like the top receiver prospect in that class and he was right there for that pick as well: just because the Vikings blew their pick on Patterson doesn’t mean Seattle should have. Hopkins is progressing nicely towards being a #1 receiver and the Andre Johnson heir apparent for the Texans. (Next WR drafted was Justin Hunter, who blew up the preseason. It’s hard to tell now where he is considering the suckiness of the Titans but tell me you wouldn’t trade any Seattle bench WR for Justin Hunter right this minute.) 2013 Seattle would have been in great position to bring Hopkins along as a 3rd or 4th WR behind their veteran starters, evaluate his progress with ADB and Tate heading into free agency, and have a lot of flexibility at that position.

      The core process failure in the Percy trainwreck is Seattle’s piss-poor approach to the WR position. To judge by the 2014 draft that approach has not changed: Paul Richardson might beat the odds to be the next T.Y. Hilton or Marvin Harrison, but he simply does not physically profile as a probable lead receiver for an NFL team. Dude weighs 175 pounds. And this is after a season where finishing in the red zone was a visible problem for the team — and after a previous draft where the Rams pantsed themselves by overpaying to get a speedy jitterbug type who hasn’t done anything for them. I realize Richardson is supposed to have amazing intangibles — was this just overcorrection for the Chris Harper miss?

      Seattle traded back out of pick 32 and could have had Jordan Matthews at pick 40. They traded back out of that pick once again and lost Matthews, but when they picked at 45 they took Richardson ahead of Davante Adams, Cody Latimer, and Allen Robinson, who were the next three receivers selected. Matthews, Adams and Robinson have all already flashed on Sundays; Latimer has not but his bona fides were discussed heavily on this site in the spring. Even if Latimer turns out to be an outright bust (and not just a guy who’s buried for the moment on a veteran team), his selection would have been a much more defensible process as a guy who actually could become a #1. Hey no worries guys. Deepest wide receiver draft class in years, but only squares reach down to pick up the money lying on the ground in front of them.

      The idea that even sans Golden we could, with no magical Christmasland thinking at all, be rolling ADB-Kearse-DeAndre-Davante in four-wides AND have re-signed a key defensive contributor or two AND have had an extra mid-round pick to spend wherever — why, it’s enough to make stones weep. As it is, we’ve spent a 1, a 2, a 3, and two 4s on the WR position over the past two seasons and currently what we have to show for it is two guys who have generated nothing better than training camp highlights.

      But the point is that these costs were predictable, and Harvin’s amazing “upside” in the context of Seattle’s offense was a guy to go 60-700, add a couple hundred on sweeps, and bust a couple of kickoff returns a year — a fine contributor to have on the team but not the sort of thing to mortgage the future for. All the (now-ironic) talk about his transformative effect for everyone else on the offense was always a lot of self-delusion while the fan base talked itself into getting behind this lemon of a deal.

      Anyway. Done is done. You can’t unring the bell. The question going forward is whether PCJS think they just happened to miss on one Percival Harvin, or whether they get their shit straight managing the team’s resources as they try to restock a dwindling pipeline behind all the contracts coming due. There’s a good chance this cluster* slammed a championship window shut, but they have enough pieces in place that they could pry another one open if they stop clowning around.

      That kickoff return was pretty sweet though. We’ll always have East Rutherford, Percy.

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        I’ll add that when we brought a stranger in and paid them top dollar it has the effect of telling out wide receivers and running backs that they aren’t worth sh*t. Now we get to argue about Baldwins contract and we already lost Tate. It is bad for morale to watch someone get paid 10+ million and then struggle with the front office to get 4 million out of them. Knotholes Boldin and Welker were only getting 6 million but for some reason the Seahawks got to overpay and give up 4 draft picks.

  12. Jianfu says:

    Harvin has a well-documented history of clashing with coaches, authority figures, and teammates, going all the way back to high school. I’m a Vikings fan, and while I’m not sure if they would have paid him (I think they thought, perhaps correctly, that while he’s an explosive returner and.effective gadget/change-of-pace guy, he’s too limited a pure receiver to pay him like one, particullarly with other salary commits at the time) they dealt him because he was a petulant pain in the ass. Granted, Minnesota’s culture then was way too meek with Les Frazier as coach and Christian Ponder at QB for someone like Harvin, but they also invested a ton of time in him (for example, he had severe migraine issues to begin his career that caused him to miss a ton of practice and even a couple games, and the Vikings worked with him to develop completely new diet and lifestyle habits that apparently were effective), and the team felt a lot of his act came off as ungrateful.

    At any rate, at the time of the trade, I thought it was good for both sides as minny got a nice haul of picks but Seattle got the modern day Eric Matcalf to work into a contention window, and I thought if there was a culture where Harvin might be willing to mesh with, it would have to be Seattle with Carroll and company, but apparently not. I wonder if there is a locker room at all he can fall in like with at this point.

  13. mrpeapants says:

    makes me wonder if the talk during the draft about making sure the players will mesh, and looking more in character had anything to do with percy?

  14. Chris A. says:

    I truly hope this brings out the best in Baldwin and Kearse. They’ve both made huge plays since they’ve been here, but now is their time to show they’re not “pedestrian”. I’m still worried about this offense, especially with the rumored divide of the locker room on the trade, Lynch supposedly didn’t want to get on the bus after hearing about trade. If the Beast isn’t happy, this team is, well, screwed.

  15. CA says:

    I just find it so peculiar that amidst the crescendo of Percy turbulence that he gets 3 TDs called back in Washington, nothing was going to allow him to continue to help this team out. It was simply his time to go. Its just funny how the universe works, that’s all.

    Now if only we can get this pass rush revamped.

  16. Chris J says:

    When I first heard this the reaction was one of what are we doing? But on reflection is this really going to make us worse on offense? You guys and Rob are infinitely more clued up than I, but it appears to this casual observer that, Superbowl notwithstanding, all PH has really contributed this season by being healthy has been to rewrite the playbook and take us away from what made us successful during his absence in 2013. I don’t have the stats to hand, but I’m sure he had a woeful number of receiving yards through 5 games? PCJS have shown they aren’t afraid to shake up the roster before and look how it ended. In their judgement we must trust.

    • SeaTown says:

      With all due respect to you (and ADB,) but yes this will make us worse. This offense will struggle (as it did a good portion of last year) because we do have a pedestrian group of WRs, a RT who gets blown up every week, an injured Zack Miller, an Max Unger, and now a pissed off Marshawn Lynch.

      • JeffC says:

        It’s “rebuild in some areas” time. Back to the ten year plan

      • Coug1990 says:

        Yeah, and St Louis is at full health. Not. The offense struggled at times last season (missing three OL starters will do that), but in most games it was great. All teams not named Denver struggled at times last season. You can whine if you want, but haven’t you watched enough games to know all teams have injuries? Haven’t you watched enough games to know that good teams over come?

        • SeaTown says:

          I’ve watched plenty of games and I’m not whining. Facts are facts. Currently 7-3 Rams and they are in the RZ again about to score. Hawks clearly did not show up today.

      • Chris J says:

        Appreciate the reply but all those factors (Lynch notwithstanding) would be the same with PH. The truth is there has been little production from PH. 22 receptions for 133 yards. 11 carries for 92 yards with 1TD. His pace on KR negated by teams not kicking to him. We have greater issues on the OL line as you elude to than trading away PH. We need to eradicate the pre snap penalties which have plauged us all year for a start. The Harvin deal hasnt worked out, cost us, but we move on.

  17. Adam says:

    Is there any chance that they start to use Paul Richardson in some of the Percy stuff in the offense?

  18. Adog says:

    Lynch is/should be the next to go. If they plan on investing in Russell Wilson …they will need to cut the divas. There can be only one diva and that is Wilson . However he is a diva of team first epical proportions. They need to turn the game plan over to Wilson…as in open up the play book and give him free will to use it. Later lynch … Take your ego with. This is Russell ‘s team .

  19. JeffC says:

    Who knows how this team will respond. I would not be surprised if we go on an extended losing streak then finish the season hot like 1986, but miss the playoffs. I think talk of a repeat at this point with the turmoil and the injuries is probably a fantasy at best. Now we have to rebuild in some areas and be happy that we finally got the Lombardi.

    I hope we go back to the draft to get this team back to what it was

  20. JeffC says:

    Dumb questions made a great point in the previous thread about looking at a guy with harvins history and believing your system can reform him. You see this a lot among all the motivational speaking win forever crowds. In the end after a brief feeling of bliss the person turns back to what they are. The person can only change slowly thru the wisdom of accumulated experience. Percy needed to change if he recognized he was a problem. We see no evidence of this. My hope is going forward that JS and PC don’t commit assets to players of this nature. I’m not for going back to drafting Tim Ruskell choirboys. I’m against spending valuable resources for cancerous tumors

  21. Stuart says:

    This is my first post in several months. SDB is still my favorite site for all things Hawks and the Draft.

    I remember like it was yesterday when the rumors began to swirl about trading for Percy Harvin. The fact is Rob was against before it actually happened. He had a great piece on this site explaining his view point. It was an excellent insight.

    Rob-how can we find it?

    Everyone who comes to this site and contributes, know there stuff. When the trade actually happened, who here was shocked in how much we gave up? No surprise about the first round pick, but when the 3rd and 7th pick were also part of the package, to me, it felt like we over-paid at that time.

    The talk changed from no,no, no, to-well, cool-Percy Harvin is a Seahawk. No matter how any much any of us know about the talent/ability of any player, we don’t know the person, we don’t know how they really interact with other players.

    Yes, in hindsight, FU##!!!!!!!!!

    I will never forget his 1st fly sweep and his kick off return in the Super Bowl. It does none of us any good dwelling on what could have been if we never traded for Percy. We did and we are where we are. If we win tomorrow, the Hawks are back (as if they ever left).

  22. Mark says:

    I too appreciate the effort Rob. Great write-up.

    Like many, I was never happy with the number of picks given up for Harvin. One positive to remember is that the Seahawks won the Super Bowl even with this bad series of events.

    Also, I don’t see it mentioned, but has no one else been very uninspired by Harvin’s kick returns? They’ve seemed pretty consistently poor. I only remember one returned outside the 20 this year. (Although there are probably more.)

  23. Jarhead says:

    I think everyone is missing the point on who we could’ve had with the pick we gave up for Harvin. Amid all the talk of “Let Lynch walk”, Eddie Lacy was sitting right there. And anyone who doubts his ability to step in right away and contribute, perhaps even making Lynch expendable, is just not getting it. The Harvin trade was a failure. But the talk of a fractured locker room is somewhat overblown. This is the NFL. Carroll and Schneider will not sacrifice the their secure leadership on the team over some clown like Harvin. I think the most devastating “what if” line of thinking, is what if we had Eddie Lacy to take over as a bruising downhill playmaker who runs behind his pads and loves violence. In my opinion, THAT is where we lost out big time. In hindsight…

    • JeffC says:

      Which makes me wonder if this is truly lynchs last season with us even though we need him more than ever. With this episode and all the injuries this is the biggest crisis period since PC was hired. A win and it lessons considerably. A loss tomorrow and this could unravel fast centered around lynch most likely

      • JeffC says:

        I say this because maybe this is the sign to the whole team that it is team first and they are probably tired of lynch as well

        • Jarhead says:

          As much as you want to love a guy like Lynch, he is also a head case. And he was brought in from outside. That makes a HUGE difference. Look at the guys who were brought up in house, from draft day essentially, and Lynch is the last great outside guy. He is a transplant. Zach Miller is a “team guy” but he certainly hasn’t been a weapon like Lynch. Almost every single other major contributor is an in-house guy. Except Avril and Bennett of course. I think that Lynch, and his actions, will dictate whether or not he is brought back. I don’t any player has the mantle of “you are indespensible” save for perhaps Wilson and Thomas. But those guys are keystones of this whole franchise

  24. Austin says:

    After watching Lacy multiple times this year I’m not as impressed. He is nowhere near as good as Lynch is and I feel better about Michael honestly. Of course he has to prove it but I think Michael is more talented than Lacy.

    • Jarhead says:

      Really? You feel better about a player who has yet to have a meaningful carry in his whole career? Wait, a player who has been a healthy scratch for almost every single game he has been on an NFL roster??? Wow… Just wow. Compared to last year’s OROY and probably the best between the tackles runner not named Lynch or Peterson. That is just irresponsible. I know Michael has his major honks, but come on, man. Lacy is the feature back for one of the NFL’s best offenses, of which he is a major contributor. And as much as you all love to complain about Turbin, the guy gets all of the meaningful carries that don’t go to Lynch. So Michael is not even about Turbin on our depth chart. Just wow. Anyhow, I strongly disagree that Michael is even in the same building as Eddie Lacy talent wise. Go back to the old adage that talent will show itself best on the field…

  25. Coug1990 says:

    Did any of you read the article Rob wrote only a few days ago? From reading what many of you think, I would have thought your dog ran away and that your son told you he was engaged to a Kardasian.

    As Rob wrote, nothing is won in October. They may or may not play better without Harvin, but the Seahawks still have one of top 2 or 3 rosters in the NFL. Almost every team would kill to be the the position the Seahawks are in right now on October 18, 2014.

    I don’t know if the Seahawks will win the Superbowl because winning one is hard, real hard. However, even today I do not know that they won’t raise the Lombardi once again.

    • JeffC says:

      You are right but at the same time you can’t look at this as anything but a major crisis. Lynch not wanting to get on the bus shows there is more to this than just harvin

      • Coug1990 says:

        It is yet to be determined if this is a major crisis. Some were calling the situation in SF “major” and now they are on a winning streak. Fans over react. They almost always do. If this team misses the playoffs, then OK it was a major crisis. However, as far as I know, the Seahawks haven’t been eliminated.

        • JeffC says:

          Fans should overreact that’s why they are fans and spend too much time on blogs. It’s why they scream and yell, paint themselves in team colors and create earthquakes. The emotions of fans follow wave theory.

          SF has reacted well but they also have the stigma of needing a Super Bowl win and I suspect that is going a long way to their present success.

          This team is not out of it, but it could snowball in a hurry. We will see. I’m glad they cut the cancer but I Also hope this regime never risks so many resources again on any player with such a history and for the record I was a fan of the trade, but then again, I’m a fan. I think their work is not done. If florio is right, then the locker room may still have a serious schism

          I’m not sure about this year, but I’m pretty confident that next year we will see a reenergized effort to rebuild depleted areas and a better team going forward.

          • Coug1990 says:

            Really? Fans “Should” overreact? Fans should by definition should be stupid and illogical? Sorry, you and I have way different ideas of fandom. Cheering, painting faces, etc., is a positive emotional response. There is no overreacting about that.

            I am not sure I get your logic about SF. People said they were in major crisis. They are winning. Winning the SB cements their legacy. If they make the playoffs, was it really a crisis?

            You wrote “we will see.” That is correct. We don’t know now. Heck, when I was a very young kid, I was a fan of the Oakland A’s and Reggie Jackson. They made what is happening here look like a Sunday church social. They won three WS in a row.

            • JeffC says:

              Yeah we have a way different way of looking at this. You are overreacting to the overraction. I have no problem with the positivity of sunpathpaul nor the doom of Neil. Stupid and illogical? You’re looking for logic at a football game? This sport became a multimillion dollar industry on the power of elation and despair. Do you ever read the game threads on fieldgulls? The stupid and illogical money is just as green as your “good fan” money and is just as responsible for this sports success.

              You have your right to your anger at stupid and illogical fans but you’ll likely have as much success of changing them to your way of thinking as Pete did at changing Percy.

              • Coug1990 says:

                With your answer, I think you made it a little personal. OK then. Yes, I do look at things logically. Why? Because it is right most of the time. Most people that look at things emotionally and illogically end up being wrong and looking back and wondering why they were so stupid.

                Rob wrote this article by looking at this logically. He didn’t rant and rave about how idiotic the Seahawks were and that they will collapse.

                Sorry, but doing and saying something stupid is always stupid and not excused just because you or anyone were thinking solely on emotion.

        • SeaTown says:

          14-3 right now to Austin Daavis and the pathetic Rams. Yes, this is a crisis.

          • SeaTown says:

            21-3 sacks piling up and getting embarrassed on ST. Yeah full crisis mode from where I’m sitting.

  26. SunPathPaul says:

    I don’t think we should panic. I feel we can believe in Paul Richardson & Kevin Norwood!

    They are the only “drafted WR’s” on the team, and they have great potential‚Ķ

    What no one is saying is this: Technically, Paul Richardson is FASTER FASTER FASTER

    FASTER than Percy Harvin. FASTER !

    He ran an electronic 4.28 in January before training for the draft. Check the video…

    Also Kevin Norwood was considered super solid in OTA’s, etc, before he had surgery, not an injury, but surgery for bone spurs. If they knew they liked Norwood, and they were looking to move Percy, no wonder they had Norwood have the surgery to get ready for a long term replacement of Percy if the trade happened.

    They are rookies, I get that. But our saving grace is that Russell Wilson protects the ball, so when they are open, BOOM, they r the answer, and next Generation of Seahawk WR talent…

  27. Rock says:

    Even if Harvin had been a Boy Scout his production did not match the money he was paid. Before this announcement I would have bet that Harvin would be gone at the end of 2014. We needed his salary to pay Wilson. Apparently, they were trying to trade him. The refusal to play against Dallas forced their hand and they unloaded him immediately. If they had done anything else, Pete Carroll would have lost the locker room.

  28. Jarhead says:

    I am at work so I can’t actually watch the game, but we are baaaaad. Wow. I can’t actually see what is going on, but we are getting whipped but a far less talented team. From the douchbag facebooker comments it sounds like we are listless and committing more penalties. This season is turning in to a disaster. We need to come up with an answer fast, because the helium in our Hindenberg is catching aflame…

    • AlaskaHawk says:

      Here is a summary of first half 6 to 21. Offensive line playing poorly with numerous missed blocks and false starts. Wilson manages to run out of time on Rans 6 yd line despite having 2 time outs. Rams get more sacks then they have had all season. High points would be Helfet and Baldwin catches. Seeing the rookies in the game including Michael and Richardaon.

      Special teams give up a 90 yard punt return and one good kick return to midfield.

      Defense brings Simon back as corner and he looks like he is holding on every play. He manages to rip a players helmet off while face masking him. St. Louis running pretty well on us. Bennett and Thomas the only players having an impact. I don’t think they are throwing toward Sherman.

      Looks like we are 4th best team in NFC west.

      • SeaTown says:

        A house divided cannot stand.

      • Jarhead says:

        Yeesh. That honestly sounds about as bad as it looks from the game tracker on nfl.com though

      • AlaskaHawk says:

        We aren’t divided. The team played well considering our offensive line sucks and the defensive secondary hasn’t played well. Both are at least partially due to injuries. Also to many penalties.

        • SeaTown says:

          You really think this team played well today? They were embarrassed on both defense and ST.

          • AlaskaHawk says:

            St. Louis is better then there record- especially the defensive line where they have used high draft picks. Considering we totally changed our offense we did okay. The defense just hasn’t been as good this year so we lose the close ones. Kudos to the rams for throwing on 4th down to ice the game- they played to win or go down in flames.

            • jw says:

              yep. nothing wrong with the O line. Nothing to see here. Pay no attention to the dumpster fires on your left, center, or right. Move along….

            • Rob Staton says:

              The Rams are starting their third string QB and the pass rush you’re talking about had one sack coming into today. They were a deserved 1-4 team coming into this week.

              • AlaskaHawk says:

                I am the last person who will defend our offensive line. In my comments above I said they suck. But they have sucked all year so nothing new there, except we had another injury at center and Carpenter looks even worse. The biggest change was bad special teams play – they gave up over 150 yards and a TD.

  29. Forrest says:

    No excuses. The Offense made up for a bad first half, but the defense looks really lost…and special teams giving up that punt return AND the fake punt conversion thingy…just great plays by the Rams, but we should have known that they’d try and convert on that punt!

    Honestly the offense looks like it can hold its own, and special teams looks fine (The Rams just had the better one today). The defense however is clearly not performing that well: The secondary looks sluggish and isn’t producing turnovers, the linebackers look terrible, and the d-line looks gassed every game.

    Offense will get sorted out soon, but the defense needs some major tweaking…

    Also poor officiating, but the o-line was once again what killed the offensive drives (something like 3 times this game)…Injuries were also an issue…

    Thankfully the Hawks (imo) play better later in the year, so I still think we could win the West (only if the Cards unravel), and I think the Hawks will make the playoffs either way with 11-5 or 12-4…losses being KC and @SF, and possibly PHIL (depending on how they are playing).

  30. Hawk and Roll says:

    Well have to agree a house divided is a house that falls. Coming off the near miss is DC and then falling completley flat with Dallas in our house and then….. the Rams loss… Major repairs need to happen fast. No house is without controversy however what really matters is how as a team the get it together… Come on hawks we are behind you play like the CHAMPIONS you are.

  31. smitty1547 says:

    Im really surprised about the house divided, im shocked that people like Lynch who is known to have his own issues. Would have any support behind a player that has quit on them, refuses to take the feild and help u win a game. I dont care how much dope u smoked with me in my living room after the last game, I would be done with you PERIOD !!!