Bobby Wagner is being released by the LA Rams
Why it’s a ‘no’ on Bobby Wagner for me
Seahawks’ media and fans alike are buzzing on Twitter, calling for the team to bring Wagner home.
I can understand why. He was a very popular player, liked by everyone. The Seahawks have been known to keep bringing back their own players — almost to a fault. Bruce Irvin, Benson Mayowa, Luke Willson and several others spring to mind. They are very comfortable with familiarity so I can see why some people expect this might happen.
For me though, it’s an emphatic ‘no’.
Let’s not forget we’re only a year removed from the Seahawks cutting Wagner. There was a reason for that and we can’t just put it down to cost. They are paying Quandre Diggs and Jamal Adams similar salaries this year. They could afford Wagner if they wanted to — they chose to part ways instead.
Going into the final year of his contract, it would’ve been fairly easy to negotiate an extension and lower the 2022 cap-hit. Again, they chose not to.
I don’t think people ever really embraced what Wagner was showing on film towards the end. It’s not nice to say and I appreciate any time you criticise a franchise legend, you’re going to get a pushback. However — it was very clear on tape that Wagner appeared to be increasingly avoiding contact. He was not hitting his gaps with any kind of urgency. There were screen passes where he was riding downfield rather driving to the ball-carrier. He was hesitant.
The play that really encapsulated his 2021 season was having a target right in his path against the Rams, remaining extremely static and watching Darrell Taylor chase from nowhere to deliver a massive hit while he stood and watched:
Nice hit by Darrell Taylor pic.twitter.com/p3hbvR2MyN
— Billy M (@BillyM_91) December 22, 2021
There were no big plays, not enough of the old Wagner and he could no longer justify a good contract.
The team didn’t make that call on a whim. You don’t just cut Bobby Wagner. That will have been a difficult but necessary decision. Few saw it coming, apart from those of us who were willing to embrace what the tape was actually showing.
He was released on March 9th and was immediately able to negotiate with new teams. He didn’t sign a contract until March 31st. He endured a relatively cold market. A bit of interest from Baltimore, a bit of interest from LA. There wasn’t a lot of buzz. Eventually he signed a deal with the Rams that was announced as a ‘five-year deal worth $65m’ but as soon as the details came out, we could all see it was likely a $10m contract for one season and then see what happens.
Despite being PFF’s top-graded linebacker, the Rams are moving on after one season. For the second year in a row, he’s being released.
I only watched the Rams closely twice in 2022 — against the Seahawks. I thought Wagner played very well in those game. I also think he was highly motivated to play well against his old team and might’ve played with that bit between his teeth all year.
I’m not interested in signing a 33-year-old Wagner to a contract similar to the arrangement he had in LA, just to find out whether he’ll play like he did in 2021.
The Seahawks only have $15.9m in effective cap space (and that doesn’t include the Nick Bellore contract). That will rise a bit when they cut Gabe Jackson. With major holes in the trenches — and no quarterback signed to the roster — now isn’t the time to be spending around $10m for the feel-good-factor of Wagner returning, to play behind an inept D-line.
Imagine if the team did try and re-sign Wagner. What does this mean? That they’re trying to re-create the 2019 Seahawks? With a quarterback earning a salary in the $30-35m range and an ageing Wagner leading the defense?
I thought the whole point of last year was a fresh start? New heroes to find, a new era for the team? Not trying to roll back the years.
Are we really, 12 months on, going to hope for a team led by Geno Smith on a Russell Wilson sized contract, with soon-to-be 33-year-old Wagner on the other side of the ball?
I want a new direction. I don’t want to hold on to the past, or a plan that didn’t work three or four years ago (so why will it work now?).
I voiced my disinterest in re-signing Wagner on twitter and people have quickly retaliated by pointing out that I said I had interest in signing Lavonte David. It’s a fair challenge to make and one I should answer.
Firstly, I am hardly awash with NFL sources and contacts but from time-to-time, I am able to exchange ideas, thoughts and opinions with people who played the game. It was during a conversation about Wagner’s play in 2021 that the play of David was highlighted in comparison. I watched his all-22. It was the complete opposite of what Wagner was showing on tape.
To put it bluntly, Lavonte David chooses violence. There was no shirking anything. He continues to play like lightning to the ball-carrier. His intensity, physicality and speed is as good today as it was in his late 20’s. He is a thoroughly impressive, tone-setting player. He is someone who deserves more praise than he gets.
To me that is what Seattle badly needs. While I’d be worried about Wagner settling back into Seattle like he’s putting on a pair of favourite slippers, I’m not sure David has any other mode than ‘attack’.
I am not tied to the thought of signing David, either. It was a suggestion among others that included improving the trenches first and foremost. That needs to be the priority before anything else. I want to see reinforcements up front and if that means settling on a cheaper linebacker, so be it.
Over the years, we’ve been able to work out the types of player Seattle likes at certain positions. Their process at linebacker makes sense. Yes, Cody Barton has been a disappointment and Jordyn Brooks is yet to truly justify his investment. Yet the same physical traits they covet also helped us identify Fred Warner and Dre Greenlaw as potential targets for Seattle. Both, obviously, now excel in San Francisco.
I think sticking to those preferences and taking shots on fast, explosive, agile linebackers in the middle and later rounds is the way to go. I’d consider an exception for Drew Sanders, who I think should be a possible option at #20.
For the most part the bigger investment should come in the trenches, though.
I had a Twitter exchange earlier with someone who suggested it would be a plausible consideration if Wagner was willing to take an unrealistic salary, such as $5m. We need to embrace what is actually likely to happen here.
According to Spotrac, Wagner has earned $92m in his football career alone. He was named 2nd team All-Pro in 2022 and got the highly publicised ‘top PFF grade’ for a linebacker in 2022.
He acts as his own agent, which typically doesn’t create the smoothest negotiation. As mentioned already, a year ago it took a while to get a deal done.
Wagner doesn’t strike me as someone who will take any old contract to carry on playing and might even sit out on a point of principle after everything he’s achieved. We’ll see. I can’t imagine him carrying on for a Phil Haynes salary. There may well be teams with a lot to spend — Atlanta, Chicago and Vegas for example — who are willing to invest in his experience.
More than anything though I’m just ready to look to the future and not be sentimental for the past. Wagner will always be a Seattle great. Yet he was cut for a reason 12 months ago and a revenge tour season in LA shouldn’t push the Seahawks towards going back for more.
They don’t have much to spend. What little is left should go on other areas — namely quarterback and the trenches.
Another important note on character
I’m always looking for little nuggets of info and this felt like an interesting one. On 710 Seattle Sports this week, Dave Wyman had the following to say about Kayvon Thibodeaux — a player the Seahawks supposedly wouldn’t have drafted a year ago:
“That was a guy that they just weren’t going to draft. Probably in the second round or at some point. That was just a guy they weren’t very high on”
Wyman doesn’t detail why they wouldn’t have drafted Thibodeaux but it’s worth remembering some of the talk about him pre-draft. In all of his interviews he talked about his ‘brand’ and how being in the NFL would help his ‘brand’. He constantly talked about money and how being in the league was simply a vehicle to achieve financial success.
Closer to the draft it emerged he’d also been saying similar things to teams and a few found it off-putting. In mocks you started to see him drop. Right before the draft, Peter King even mocked the Seahawks trading down to #13 and taking Thibodeaux.
When Schneider spoke immediately after the 2022 season ended, he spoke about the added emphasis they placed on character last year. You can see that in the players they drafted — all were very mature, focused players.
My hunch is they were one of the teams who were put-off by Thibodeaux’s relentless desire to talk about his ‘brand’ and entrepreneurial ambitions.
I appreciate there’s some dot-connecting here but John Schneider recently started a weekly radio segment with Wyman. Recently, we’ve seen this comment on Thibodeaux and a note that Geno Smith is asking for $40m a year. Draw your own conclusions but personally when Wyman speaks these days I’m going to listen.
The reason I bring all this up is because of Jalen Carter. As talented as he is — and he’s very talented — there’s no getting away from the character concerns. Todd McShay questioned whether he’s someone you’d want to bring into the locker room. Lance Zierlein noted maturity issues in his NFL.com scouting report. I understand he basically did what he wanted at Georgia.
This could all be fair and accurate and he could still have an amazing career. You don’t need to be the ultimate pro to succeed.
And let’s not forget — the Giants took Thibodeaux at #5 despite all the chatter. I think Carter will similarly go very early.
I’m not convinced, however, that he’ll be on Seattle’s radar unless he can convince them otherwise over the coming weeks.
On the other hand, Will Anderson is constantly raved about by Nick Saban for his character and attitude. It’s also worth noting that Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud and Will Levis are celebrated for their amazing character. I’ve interviewed Levis and have spoken to people at Kentucky about him. He is loved over there. I’ve also heard good things about Anthony Richardson, just not to the same extent as the other top-three quarterbacks.
This is all worth remembering if character plays a big part in Seattle’s key decision with their top pick.
Two receivers I’m eyeing for Seattle
I’m very much looking forward to the combine and will be publishing my big combine preview on Sunday or Monday. I can’t wait to mention two receivers though.
The Seahawks might go in a different direction with their high picks and we need to see how they test. However, Josh Downs and Jonathan Mingo just scream ‘Seahawks’ to me.
Downs is just the ultimate. He reminds me so much of Tyler Lockett it’s uncanny.
His ability to high-point the football at his size is truly remarkable. He creates subtle separation with suddenness to clear coverage. He can make the big play downfield and deliver on the quick-hitters inside.
Personality-wise he is a 10/10. He already speaks like a seasoned veteran. His dad played in the league and his uncle is Dre Bly. He’s grown up around coaches and players and it shows.
He is also immensely productive and explosive — a constant threat.
It won’t be a surprise if he ends up being a ‘must-have’ for Seattle. He’ll need to prove his speed at the combine but this is the player I would put a ring around pre-Indy.
Mingo, meanwhile, is one of the most underrated players in the draft. He’s well sized with a fantastic frame. He has the quickness to get downfield and take the top off a defense but amazingly at 6-1 and 225lbs he’s brilliant in the slot. He’s technically adept and knows how to get open, present himself to the ball and he shows his hands to the QB and catches away from his body. His ball-tracking over his shoulder and on deep and contested throws is first rate.
He can make spectacular one-handed grabs, he can ‘Moss’ defenders and he runs terrific routes. He can pretty much do everything and he plays with an aggression and physicality teams will love.
I’ve watched every rep he had at the Senior Bowl and he was as smooth as silk. His ability to leap and catch away from his body was there for all to see and he deserves way more attention than he’s getting for his showing. I think he’s a second round lock but let’s see how he tests.
The fact Seattle trialled Laquon Treadwell as a bigger WR3 makes me think they’re open to that type of player. If Mingo’s there at #53 — he could end up being a steal.
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https://twitter.com/49ers/status/1444802258453995522
Watch Wagner.
Watch Jordyn Brooks.
Great example…Bobby basically just treated 2021 as a business decision…that doesn’t take away the fact he has an amazing career with us and was an all time seahawk great but 2021 was not his best, and he didn’t appear to have that fire (which he regained with LA)
2021, 2020, and 2019.
He lost his edge when he got paid, no more grit – its actually quite natural. He only played well vs the Hawks, which just proved the Hawks were right to cut him.
That is categorically untrue, he was first-team all-pro in both 2020 & 2019. Led the NFL in tackles in 2019, had 7 TFL in both years, and 3 sacks in both years. You can say that maybe he didn’t show as much grit in 2021, which I could argue is more about making business decisions to protect his body. However to lump the previous two years into that, and then say it was because he got paid, is not based on anything other than your own bias.
Being named all pro these days is becoming as easy as getting a pro bowl nod. Reputation matters more than performance.
Tackles are not a stat worth paying attention to at LB.
I would hope for more than seven TFL’s and three sacks a year for $18m per season
Yes, not the greatest effort in a two-score game you’re leading with 90 seconds left in the game. Questioning a professional player’s desire/heart is a slippery slope in my opinion. Things like this remind me of people who get pissed at a baseball player for not running hard to first base when it’s a routine ground ball. Not every play in a game means the same.
I think it simply comes down to two things. Would Wagner make the Hawks a better football team? After watching a season of Brooks & Barton, yes he does in my opinion. Second, should the Hawks pay for what likely Wagner will want? No.
As cool as it would be for some to have a reunion, it just doesn’t make sense financially & with the direction, things are going. Keep acquiring cheap, talented young players. Not a 33 y/o middle linebacker.
Well said
Here’s my mock draft before the combine.
1st Round:
P5: QB- Anthony Richardson (Florida)
P20: DL- Will McDonald (Iowa State)
2nd Round:
P38: DL- Keeanu Benton (Wisconsin)
P53: WR- Jonathan Mingo (Ole Miss)
3rd Round:
P85: OL- Jordan McFadden (Clemson)
4th Round:
P122: LB- Owen Pappoe (Auburn)
In the first round they go for the massive potential and upside in Richardson and McDonald. In the second round I have them getting two players who could provide impact from day one. In the third round I could see them loving McFadden; I also never realized how much he’s been praised at Clemson (I’m also predicting he’ll have a great TEF score). In the fourth round I am all in on the Seahawks taking the fastest and most athletic LB available, so Pappoe definitely fits that bill after being on Feldman’s Freaks list.
That would be a really solid draft.
I like this quite a bit.
Would love this.
Funny, I was about to come on here and ask iif we should be talking about Owen Pappoe a lot more.
I don’t see Pappoe being there that late, but had to drop a note here to say I would lose my shit if this is how our draft turned out. Love every one of these players.
I’m really starting to hope that Carter gets selected ahead of our pick so we don’t have to make a decision on him! Suppose the drafts goes like this:
1) Indy CJ Stroud (Trade w CHI)
2) Hou B Young
3) Car W Levis (Trade w ARZ)
4) CHI J Carter
5) SEA W Anderson
Now lets say P Richardson falls to pick 10. Would you trade 20, 51 and 121 to move up and grab him?
I would also be curious to know what you think it would cost to get D Payne? Would #37 be too much or too little?
I realize my scenario depletes a lot of draft stock, but I think I could get happy with the following haul….
#5 W Anderson
#10 P Richardson
Payne
#83
#151
#154
#195
#238
Any thoughts?
Is Paul Richardson eligible to draft again? He was pretty good once he left town. 🙂
I would definitely make that trade for Anthony Richardson. Two top five players in one draft? Sign me up
Sorry, meant A. Richardson LOL
So you want A Richardson, not THE Richardson 😉
Love the idea of Josh Downs at 38! Or maybe a bit sooner if they trade back from 20. He is a guy who could well be the best WR to come out of this class when we look back at it 4-5 years from now.
I agree with you Bobby shouldn’t be back. I think in the lineback and secondary, the young twitchy athletes are the best way to go.
A lot of the vets they bring back at an older age tend to play on the lines (especially d line) where they don’t have to play every snap and even if they’ve lost a step they can still hold up.
This is also why I disagree with bringing in an aging Lavonte David.
Mentioned it in your live stream but I think Azeez Al-Shaair looks like a young hungry LB that is looking to come out of the shadows of the Niners LB core. 6’2, 228 lbs at only 25 years old I think he might fit perfectly with what we are trying to do, also seen reports that seem to think his market is around 5-6 million a year which I think is perfectly doable given our cap situation
I enjoyed the write up and absolutely over the piece when you wrote. I thought the whole point of last year was a fresh start. New Heroes to find, a new era for team. Your take Wagner and David was dead on but I feel David probably wouldn’t be interest traveling across country to lay for Seattle. We are going to have see after this combine what happens Keion White might put himself into 1-2 range zone on your big board.
https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1629276360718819328?cxt=HHwWgICxmfiNrZwtAAAA
Get him out of the NFCW.
💯 👍
I actually liked watching him with the Rams. Maybe just me
When I think about bringing back Bobby, I’m reminded of Coughlin’s Law:
Bury the dead. They stink up the joint. As for the rest of Coughlin’s Laws, ignore them.
But seriously, no thanks to Wagner
The way things ended here, I can’t see any situation Wagner would even consider coming back. Maybe for a huge contract with a whole new front office and coach.
Ok. Do you want Bobby Wagner back and why?
No. But if it came down to a choice between him and Barton, and that was the only choice available, I would prefer Wagner. At the right price.
Love Downs. The comparison to Lockett is right on. Not only physically on the field, but also in that they both have the NFL bloodlines.
I can see the fan signs at Lumen after Josh is drafted and becomes a solid contributor for the Hawks:
“We all have DOWNS syndrome!”
Ok
Yikes
One of these days. I will find something to disagree with you about Rob. Today is not that day, though.
Bobby is a legendary player and always will be. I would argue he is one of the best ever LBs in this league. But signing him now, even at journeyman money (which he would never accept) is nothing more than a PR move at this point. The memories were great and he will go into the HOF sporting Blue and Green when it’s all said and done, but I no more want to see him out there on the field for us at this point than Sherman or Marshawn or Avril or Bennett. Those years were great, but he is now into the inevitable out-to-pasture stud phase and I want no part of it. He’ll either sit out next year on principle or finish up with some team that has the cap to make it work like Edgerrin James, Franco Harris, Darrell Revis, etc. did – grabbing that last paycheck before it’s time to move on to the next phase. Just how things go in this young man’s game. No disrespect to the man at all, but if he wants to go man the middle for someone else that needs to sell tickets, I say go get it and God bless. But that’s a token move. One this franchise was happy to deal in during our moribund years, which is still a good chunk of my years of fandom.
As for receiver, could not agree more on Downs. I see him as the consolation prize to Zay Flowers, who I was super hoping could be there for us with a second round pick and now that is looking less and less likely. The way things are headed, he’s going to cost us #20 if he even falls that far. Not a big drop from him to Downs, as I see it. Both very Tyler-like in terms of their ability to create seperation and deceive defenses with their lack of imposing size. All sneaky fast.
Weird to go into this combine hoping guys I love actually don’t test so great so they can drop to us. I don’t pour through tape at half the rate you do, but I see several players who just prove it on the field over and over and fall in love. I hope their hands are too small, their arms too short, their calves too fat, whatever, so that we can scoop maximum value at every pick.
Ha!
I feel you.
But I take heart in remembering that not all the teams have our capital or our needs and wants. For every player Rob scouts some team somewhere is going to say…sure but we need position x over that guy.
Forgot to mention – talk to me about Bobby as our LB coach, and I am all in. Player-coach? No thanks. But I would be pretty stoked seeing him and/or KJ helping coach up the next gen of our linebackers. Especially Bobby. I have no idea if he has any interest in that, but I think we’ve seen for years that his leadership is A+ and when we were getting A+play on the field at the same time, we were feared by every team in the NFL.
If BWagz wants to go that direction, I certainly hope we’d give that a fair look.
Ok
Would Bobby even consider coming back if PC or JS are still here? He seemed pissed off with the way Seattle handled the situation.
Probably not. I’m guessing pride alone won’t let him and if there is any sanity left in our FO, it will not happen. At least, I hope not. I, and probably many of us here, remember all too well what it’s like to dump salary on marquee names – future HOF players that were great for morale and maybe ticket sales but did fuck all to actually have us put a SB-contenting team on the field. For now, I sleep well knowing JS would never go this route, but if he does, you can bet we’re in transitional ownership hell and it’s gonna be another decade before we dig out.
Let’s bring back Steve largent. Let’s bring back Cortez Kennedy. Let’s bring back Walter jones. Let’s bring back Kenny easley. Let’s bring back marshawn lynch.
You just bring washed up old players back on infl
inflated contracts and that’s how you win championships.
A least Walter and Jones are still breathing air. But point taken. At some point, you move on.
A lifetime of Seahawks diehard fandom has taught me this, if nothing else. We do not want to be that team that runs out sme all time greats at the end of their prime, See former Hawks such as Edgerrin James, Franco Harris, Jerry Rice… no bueno running out future HOF’ers in their sunset years.
As a businessman, I do understnad the marquee value that’s implied when you go there. You have to put butts in seats at the end of the day. But we still have a rabid, if largely ignorant, fanbase, If the team were mine, which is 10000% not, I would much rather gamble on the future than the past, even knowing it may cost us some sizzle in the short term.
I haven;t lost my faith in Schneider yet, but if we sign Bobby on a short term deal that is essentially 10M for a year with outs, I will. That is just stupid. I don’t care what PFF says,.
I know you mean Largent and jones.
But walter and Jones is the law firm I’m taking my business to from now on.
Yes, I meant Largent and Jones, but no edit function here. If I’m in dire legal football straits, I would call upon Largent and Jones, or Doornick and Brown, or Easley and Skansi, or Strong and Warner, or Alexander/Hasselbeck partners, or Kreig and Turner PLLC in a minute.
If I’m going down in $1000 an hour flames, I’m going down with the silver and blue homies.
Cortez passed away.
Now bringing back Tez would be a truly remarkable feat.
I was watching Mike Florio. Florio thinks that Washington Commanders might trade for LaMarr Jackson. If that would happen the Commanders would need available cap space. Which means the Commanders would more and more likely need to trade. Making it even more likely that the Commanders would be in a situation to move Daron Payne.
Which is nice but the Bears have so much cap space, thanks to the rookie QB contract deal, that they can sign Payne to a better deal than we could offer in a minute if they choose to. DL is a need for them, as well.
They can draft Carter or Anderson, maybe pick up draft capital this year and next and still get one of those two, and also sign Payne without batting an eye. That team is shitting in high cotton right now.
Rob,
As I watched more and more tape of Jonathan Mingo, he reminded me of someone and I couldn’t put my finger on it. It hit me earlier today… ANQUON BOLDIN. I started watching Boldin tape and I see a lot of similarities with high-pointing the ball, change of direction and physicality.
I would love to get Mingo on the team. Maybe more than I hated playing Boldin
House,
Exactly my thought. That size and his game. Fitzgerald was such an amazing craftsman but boldin was a nightmare to deal with.
That’s the comparison Lance Zierlein made
Rob,
I never saw Lance’s comparison. To know you’ve got eyes on the kid definitely makes me feel better about my view of him.
I was reading that Mingo is probably projected to run around the 4.46. Boldin was projected to run a 4.65 and ran a 4.71. If Mingo runs a 4.5, you think it’s possible he’s there at 52?
He’d probably need to run in the 4.4’s to attract Seattle
Boldin ran a 4.72 at the combine.
🤷 Just saying what Seattle has consistently gone for
I think it was Mad Mark last thread who gave a hint to his age. I responded there, but I will repeat my hint to my age: Born during World War II.
So your close to my Dads age.
Think we resign Bobby …but only to retire as a Seahawk
Amen… and if things work as they should, this is exactly what will happen.
I just can’t find a middle linebacker who I love in this draft. That’s why I liked a one year deal for Lavonte David. Don’t force it. If your guy isn’t there this year, wait until next.
I don’t really love one either. I would say Daiyan Henley might be the best value pick in the 2nd or 3rd.
David makes a lot of sense. I also think a big impact signing but at a lower cost is someone like Anthony Walker Jr.
I keep asking myself would Lavonte even be willing move himself for a year across to Seattle. I know Drew Sanders seems to have lost 2 years at Alabama playing the edge with hand in the ground but moving Arkansas and a move inside he showed he exploded 9.5sacks and 13.5 tfl. I admit he probably could have used another year in college will know more after the combine but I believe he could go to Cowboys at 26 or the Saints at 29. It
Probably not
Then there’s the question about paying for an old veteran who’s not going to be there when you’re ready to compete in 2-3 years. If you pay $10M/per for two years, that’s $20M you could have spent on a player for your championship window. Is it worth plugging a near term hole with the BPA if it’s only a near term fix?
Thoughts on picking up Khalen Saunders? Wasn’t he a blog favorite a few years back?
Adding Khalen and Dre’Mont Jones might be nice under the radar moves:
OLB: Uchenna Nwosu, Will McDonald
DE: Shelby Harris, Dre’Mont Jones
NT: Al Woods, Bryan Mone
DT: Khalen Saunders, Myles Adams
OLB: Darrell Taylor, Boye Mafe
Check out the redraft of the 2022 NFL Draft on 33rdTeam.
Love seeing four Seahawks taken in the 1st round. Quite a draft last year. Let’s hope we see that again.
https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/nfl-draft/2022-nfl-draft-do-over-sauce-gardner-goes-no-1-jets-land-new-franchise-qb/
But how did they leave out Jamal Adams?!?
Penning going before Abe Lucas and Kenny Pickett at 6? Even with a year of play in the league I don’t agree with peoples mocks! Lol.
Just listened to Pauline’s weekly pod cast and he went over his mock. Picked Murphy. Not even a thought toward potential of a QB being taken.
I’ll take the return of Wagz at $4 million over that for an old special teams player at the same salary.
There’s always a price.
I echo what many have said… sick and tired of the Russ hate.
Yes – I rooted against Wilson last year because our draft pick(s) benefitted, but I’m sure as hell hoping the best for him moving forward. If the Broncos play in the Super Bowl and the Seahawks don’t – I’m rooting for him! Why wouldn’t I? And what does it say about you if you’d purposely root against the only Seahawks QB who ever helped deliver a Lombardi to us?
If any of us were Wilson and had seen how horrific the Seahawks drafts had been for the last half decade, would any of us seriously wanted to remain in the same worthless work environment? Be honest with yourselves. Maybe you just don’t care and punch the clock for the paycheck. If so, good for you and I’m sorry you live life that way.
Thankfully, it seems Schneider wears the big boy pants now. That’s our biggest saving grace. Mine anyways, because Carroll had too much pull. There’s no way a sane GM would have allowed the Jamal Adams trade. I can only speculate, but it’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.
“….what does it say about you if you’d purposely root against the only Seahawks QB who ever helped deliver a Lombardi to us?”
That we don’t root for players not contributing to the success our team? He’s also the only QB that cost Seattle a second SB win, if we’re being fair.
Honestly, Russ hasn’t become the villain for Seattle that A-Rod was in 2000 for signing with the Rangers (missing out on a generational talent in his prime was heartbreaking, even if he was/is a douche) or Clay Bennett (inbred, scum-sucking carpetbagger) but he is a massive disappointment, as many of us foolishly initially believed he was the decent man with a generous heart that he outwardly manufactured. That may make us naive but as time has gone on, I realize that he must actually have an emptiness inside of him he’s trying to fill by incessantly himself showcasing being “the Good Guy™.”
At any rate, once we use the picks we acquired for dumping him, I won’t wish him harm but won’t pull for him anymore than I would any other squad not in Blue and Green.
Yep.
Grateful for his time in Seattle. Thankful for the top 5 pick. Just another NFL quarterback for me moving forward…
“Clay Bennett (inbred, scum-sucking carpetbagger)”
the villain was Howard Schultz. He knew he was selling to someone who would move the team and stuck the knife in Seattle
Howie was absolutely a culprit. He, however, didn’t lie about keeping the team in town when he bought it, meanwhile making plans to sabotage the market ASAP. That was Clay and Aubrey. Aubrey’s dead. Still waiting for Clay to drop.
Cognitive test predictive of QB success in NFL?
https://theathletic.com/4226466/2023/02/24/nfl-quarterbacks-s2-cognition-test/?source=freeweeklyemail&campaign=602288
This is really cool. I’ve always felt like the in between the ears stuff is what really matters, especially with qb’s. Everyone drafted and a lot of guys who aren’t have the physical capabilities to play in the NFL. Figuring out who has the brain power seems to be a rare ability for scouts and clubs.
Typically, I’m a fan of BPA, but I firmly believe that the Seahawks will take a QB with their first pick. I want to believe. It doesn’t make sense to do anything other than to secure the future at the most important position with a high draft pick – a pick that this franchise is unlikely to see again for some time – I mean, it’s been 13 years since they even had a pick in the top ten, so the idea of waiting ’til next year, or that Geno is ‘the guy,’ seems shortsighted at best. This is their shot. I think JS is far more likely to appreciate that fact than is Pete. I also think JS is running the draft now. I think he takes a QB.
Let’s say he’s sold on Stroud or Levis – those guys seem to be in the JS wheelhouse based on his past preferences, but they both seem unlikely to be available at 5. What would it take to move up? What do you give Chicago to get to 1/1? 5 & 20? 5 & 20 & 53? More? What’s the cost? Surely it’ll be enough to make the team trading up ask if this is really worth doing, but it is what it is. The choice is either get your guy, or join the Kirk Cousins Memorial Carousel of Mediocrity for the next decade+.
Whatever the price, I think they have to pay it. The benefits of having a QB on a rookie deal allow a team to build in ways that having a $40m mediocrity filling space simply can’t. Get your guy and go.
And, prepping for pushback, no, there are no guarantees at QB, but that’s true of every position.
This draft is going to be unpredictable for the seahawks. We dont have much history with Pete/John on qb picks. They hit a homerun with their first qb picked in their regime (Russ). And they didnt have to worry about it for 10 years.
My gut prediction is they pick a qb at 5. Seahawks tend to go against the grain in their drafting. Unpredictable. So im really hoping all this talk from the media about them picking Dline at 5 is a smokescreen.
We know that JS liked Mahomes. Russ was perturbed because JS went down to Mahomes’ pro day. We also know that he liked Josh Allen – he was prepared to flip Russ to Cleveland for the 1/1 that became Baker Mayfield. Those guys have turned out okay, so far.
As for the d-line – start with a better DC.
I think we talk about the qb John liked in Mahomes and Josh Allen. But I believed he also liked Andy Dalton. And wanted to draft him in 2011.
Also he signed Matt Flynn, traded for Clipboard Jesus.
So its fifty/fifty on John’s qb evaluation. Positive news is this year there are 4 good qb in the top of the draft.
Great point.
Do we know that, or is that when Pete was calling the shots?
Dalton has been confirmed and Pete said no
To be fair….Dalton was the standard for average QB in the league for years. And that was for a bad Cincinnati team. Would be interesting to see him play/develop with the l.o.b.
2011 Draft QBs:
1/1 Cam Newton
1/8 Jake Locker
1/10 Blaine Gabbert
1/12 Christian Ponder
2/35 ANDY DALTON
2/36 Colin Kaepernick
3/74. Ryan Mallett
5/135. Ricky Stanzi
I’m awarding the point to John.
Yes. Dalton is the second or third best qb in 2011 class. But still he is not that good. Is like saying Geno was the best qb in 2013 class
Dalton had a stacked bengals roster i remember in 2013-2015. Cannot get a single playoff win.
I doubt seahawks would of won a superbowl with Dalton. He is would not escape the niners great pass rush.
” the Kirk Cousins Memorial Carousel of Mediocrity”
{perfect description
I think a lot of folks feel the same as you MaToast, “this is their shot” to get their guy.
Because a lot of us know the alternative may very well be “the Kirk Cousins Memorial Carousel of Mediocrity for the next decade+”
So while I have made similar posts promoting the drafting of a QB, mainly because I’ve lost faith and trust in our front office to do so, I just felt like that wasn’t enough.
I started thinking about other ways I could help our team as its clear Pete has lost his way and its also abundently clear that were stuck with him for the foreseeable future.
So I ordered Pete a copy of “Defending with a 34 Defense: Front 7 Fundamentals and Front Adjustments” by Andrew Fields and its being delivered to Virginia Mason Athletic Center.
Lets just say, it goes without saying that Pete is having a little bit of difficulty with his defense, every year, going back several years. So, as a fan, what better way to help out the team huh!
The book has,
Clear, concise instruction illustrated with animation
Animated adjustments vs various blocking schemes and formations
Animated videos that demonstrate each concept, step by step
Front 7 fundamentals, reads, adjustments vs. all major personnel groupings
But, unfortunately it doesn’t cover basic concepts such as tackling, but you have to start somewhere, right.
I think Greeny from espn calls qb like Maholmes, burrow “force multiplier.” Meaning they make other players better.
With Pete/John’s spotty roster construction/drafting, picking a qb at 5 is a must. If they hit on a elite franchise qb, seahawks can absorbs some mistakes. They dont need a perfect roster to win the superbowl.
With Geno, you need a stacked roster. geno tailed off towards the end of the year because the rookie OT hit a rookie wall. Walker got banged up. And dissly in IR.
Geno to me is like a poor man’s Dak. He is great when the roster has everything.
For now, I agree, but i think it depends in how those FA QB signings go, it’s possible a few of those qb needy teams fill that hole and we end up taking one of these 4 guys a 20 instead.
As much as i love the Seahawks, i am really down on the basic fundementals of team building done the way JS has constructed our roster.
Its so sad but i dont have faith in JS anymore. Its just insane how much we over pay just the recent signings so far.
This means i personally can no longer blindly be just Seahawk homer only.
I am going to split my Seahawk passion with another team.
Between the Lions, Giants, Jets and Jags, which of these teams would you choose to co follow?
BTW, loved Robs write up as always and the mock draft ideas on this thread. Smartest fans anywhere are on SDB!
………..
I believe that the Lions need all the support and divine intervention as possible. They have had Barry, Calvin and a lot of losing in the past century.
The Seahawks won’t be any kind of contender as long as they keep paying their own over-the-hill mediocre players instead of trying to improve.
Leaving aside Bellore, which I agree is an over pay, I’m having a hard time understanding the hate for the Haynes deal.
He played in 15 out 17 games in 2022, started 3 of them and played a majority of offensive snaps (51%) while committing only 3 penalties all season long. The primary reason he wasn’t the regular starter at RG is because they were paying Gabe Jackson good money not to ride the bench behind him.
Lord help me for citing pff, but here’s how Haynes measured up compared to Jackson in 2022:
Haynes
Overall — 57.1
Pass Blocking — 60.2
Run Blocking — 58.1
4 sacks allowed in 485 snaps
Jackson
Overall — 55.0
Pass Blocking — 51.1
Run Blocking — 53.8
2 sacks allowed in 667 snaps
So, Haynes is younger and objectively better than Jackson, and he costs at least $1.5m less for 2023. How is this a bad thing?
And furthermore, securing the RG position means the FO can let the draft come to them with respect to OG; instead of being forced to spend an early pick on that position group and suffering through a rookie learning curve (no matter how slight), they can take one of the intriguing prospects like Tippman in R3/4, or Saldiveri/Broeker/Curtis/Scruggs in R5/6 and let them learn behind Haynes for the season.
Please explain how this is an “insane over pay”
Why would the only valid comparison be with an old, oft-injured guard clearly past his prime and due to be cut because he costs too much for the performance he offers? Why isn’t what else is on the market and at what price be a better comparison? It may be that the second sort of comparison involving a broader market analysis weighed in favor of re-signing Haynes, and so your suggestion that the Haynes price point made sense could well be a good one, but that really has very little to do with Jackson.
Some of the roster construction is bad for John. Why pay so much for Bellore?
You can find cheap min contract player for special teams.
Also, why did it take so long to find a kickoff returner? They better keep Godwin.
Mike G’s tweet yesterday was incorrect, as far as which year is larger. @MikeGarafolo
Nick Bellore’s deal is for $6.6 million over two years, with $3.75m this season. A nice pay bump from $2.15m in 2022 for the player the #Seahawks’ press release termed their “special teams captain/linebacker/fullback/comedian.”
It’s finally showing on over the cap.com – https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks
His cap hit is 2.6 this year and 4 in 2024. Still over double, almost triple what any other team would’ve paid for a mid-30s slow LB who’s only good at ST. How we could’ve used that money elsewhere.
It feels like we’ve seen this movie too many times.
A cap hit of $2.6 this year is only $1M more than the veteran minimum. Is that worth it to keep the ST captain? I think all the angst over this contract is a bit overblown.
Finally had a chance to listen to the podcast with you, Adam and Robbie, and it was fantastic. You guys make a great team. Some great content this week, and really looking forward to next week and your reporting of the combine and the big board afterwards adjusted for all the testing results.
Wish ESPN would allow the players to test when it’s most comfortable for them during the day and tape it to show later, instead of make them test live late into the night for ratings. It’s been shown that they’re too tired that late at night to do those tests, and almost half wind up skipping them the last 2 years since they started this.
Can’t always count on the Pro days results being as accurate on their home field faster track and stopwatches. It was a lot easier to compare their results when they all tested at the same time, same track and other comparative testing in Indy, with the digital results on 10 yd. splits and everything else.
In the event that the Seahawks are able to draft QB-Stroud from Ohio St. it would be a GREAT move to select his security blanket WR-Jaxon Smith-Njigba, (84.8% catch rate in 2021, #1 in FCS.) and a QB rating of 141.8 when targeted. His 2021 season at Ohio St. he had a superb (Big-10 record) season with 95/1606/9-TD’s. He then played in only 3 games in 2022 due to a bad hamstring injury. + his historic 2021 Rose Bowl game performance where he caught 15 passes for a record 347 yards just sticks in my memory. IMO-he favorably comps to none other than —> Doug Baldwin, only due to his slightly lesser speed (4.46/40) and soft hands, +agility & he’s great in the intermediate game with occasional long balls. He may be more of a slot receiver that can also play outside a little (unlike Downs, who is likely slot only). IMO. I’d prefer him slightly over Downs, although Downs also returns punts pretty well & I like that. Both are likely going to go late round-1 or somewhere in round-2 — so their current rankings are pretty close.
I’d rather the healthy player in Downs. Either will take a high pick to secure. Jsn has too many questions marks.
I understand coming back from injury, but what other question marks does he have? He was the leading receiver last year on a team that had Garret Wilson and Chris Olave… those two even said that JSN is the better athlete and receiver. I’m hoping we grab JSN regardless of whether we get Stroud. JSN reminds me of a cooper cupp
Coupla Saturday morning questions for y’all
First, do you think there’s a chance Lukas Van Ness could become a Bosa level defender? He has snaps where he sure looks the part.
Second, Byron Young or Derrick Hall?
Is anyone else a little underwhelmed by Will Anderson’s highlights? He’s unblocked on so many of his sacks and/or going up against tackles who simply whiff on their first block. Can he win consistently in an actual battle?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc_ug5N1BfA
His game against Miami in 21 is special stuff. I recommend checking that out
I mean, technically you could say his first step and swim move is so good it makes fools out of lineman, but I haven’t done a ton of tape watching on him.
Dang, that’s rough.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1629558637231210497
This is what we should offer Lock. Why do I have a terrible feeling we’re going to give him like double this amount if Geno signs somewhere else…?
2y $9m w/incentives to $13m >>>>>>>>> a massive Geno contract
Obviously.
I’m just saying the same thing we’ve been saying so far: WHO exactly are we “outbidding” for these players’ services other than ourselves…?
Is it possible the Seahawks take Bijon Robinson at #5 and just go full on running game mode? Honestly, I’d like it…
If they somehow feel sure they can get Richardson at #7-9 then a trade down from #5 for Richardson and a trade up from #20 for Robinson would be interesting.
THAT would be full on running game mode with Richardson’s ability added in as well.
That would be incredible. Going more smash mouth run game would make however the QB situation goes easier for however is under center..unless you have Peyton Manning on fumes, Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady on a discount all these Super Bowls are won with QBs on their rookie deals since the CBA changes in 2011. I don’t want to be in QB hell (which Rob has spoken on really well) paying a middling guy top shelf money
I would become a 49ers fan until PC and JS are gone if they pich a RB over a QB at #5
Drafting Bijan makes the same amount of sense as drafting an EDGE player, except this draft is 3 rounds deep at EDGE and Bijon is a unicorn
That’s a good point. If they took AR at 5 and traded up to 10-15ish for Bijan I’d be excited. I know the team needs defense but I could see that offense with 2 feature backs and a potential unicorn qb being like the 19 Ravens and Richardson winning an mvp. I know I’m way ahead of myself but finishing the offense with picks and using this and next off-season free agency plus next years draft to yet the defense to a top 15 unit sounds intriguing to me.
😬
Damn I would love for him to buy the Seahawks, guarantee these dumb ass fa signings and over paying for our own guys would stop.
If we should end up with Richardson developing behind Geno, Lock, or someone, it would be interesting, and scary for other teams to use him occasionally in “wildcat” formation, with a run/pass option. Or even as a wide receiver/TE.
Amazing athlete and great size.
I have to say Seattle’s achillies heal was defense so mock draft and JS is going go completely out of the box. It starts with trade from raiders who get 5 for 7,38, and 109. The next trade happens when Jacksonville trades us 24 and 56 got 20 and seahawk 3rd round pick.
7 Tyree Wilson
24 Keion White
37 Drew Sanders
38 Zay Flower
52 Henson Hooker
56 Keenu Benton
83 Bryon Young
109 Jordan McFadden
123 Chris Rodriguez Jr
153 Juice Scruggs
156 Leonard Taylor
198 Karl Brock’s
Sleepers are Drew Sanders and Byron Young. These 2 really seem to be going under the radar. Sander drop is he has 1 year playing in the inside and Young has 3.5 sacks may drag him down.
I did address the QB spot give him year to fully recuperate from injury, learn from Geno, and Waldrons system. A mock to consider.
I have not been keeping track of such things, but has the Combine organization improved the workout schedules since the debacle of last year? Players skipping workouts because of the timing is not good.
I think the drills are back on their regular schedules instead of in the evenings…
I mentioned in prior comment section that I heard a very impressive interview on Pat Kirwins show with Karl Brooks and how high Kirwin is on Brooks after seeing him at Senior Bowl, i was wondering your thoughts on him
thanks
Short arms make him an unlikely fit in Seattle
I totally agree with you Rob I prefer not to bring Bobby back I would much rather get younger and faster guys with 4.5 speed for example and Rob I was wondering if you have any thoughts on the linebacker from Utah Mohamoud Diabate I know he played 3 years at Florida before his year Utah . He had 13.5 tackles for loss last year.i wouldn’t mind if the Seahawks linebackers played a little bit more downhill . Probably a day 3 guy
In terms of character, I would differentiate the “character concern” of Kavyon Thibodeaux from Carter. I could see Wyman’s comments about off-putting character more along the lines of what Schneider and Carroll probably had to endure with Russell and his “brand” at the tailend of Russ’ tenure. I think you stand a better chance in correcting work ethic and camaraderie in a player, but ego-centricity and selfishness is a higher hill to climb. I’m sure there is still PTSD from Malik Mccdowell, but the “Brand” BS and the Mr. Unlimited BS is hard to shake out.
👊🏻🇵🇷
EB
I don’t agree at all here
You can be money orientated and a hard worker, plus those types tend to be motivated to get more and more money (which means being successful)
If you basically do what you want and can’t be arsed to condition, why are you more likely to get a player to do that when he suddenly gains generational wealth?
Yes, this makes better sense.
I’d bet on a guy who is motivated for personal “greatness” to try and perform at the highest level possible, since it furthers his goal.
I don’t really care *why* a player works hard or performs well, ultimately.
But expecting an already lazy or unmotivated player to suddenly become the opposite, is a loser’s bet.
It seems like a lot of fans take any opportunity they can to shit on Russ. The one thing that should never be questioned is his hard work and dedication. A lazy person wouldn’t come back from that finger surgery weeks before he should’ve.
Love the Mingo pick. Schneider was looking for a WR/ HB type of player when he picked Eskridge. Eskridge is built that way but he hasn’t shown it. He has that percy Harvin body type but I guess lacks the skill to translate to the pros. Mingo is a bigger reciever but seems dangerous in the open field.
Now that WAS DL Daron Payne is Non-Exclusive Franchise Tagged…
Curious of the possibility that SEA tags QB Geno Smith… then works a deal with WAS with basically a Smith for Payne swap (and maybe a swap of draft picks)?
If Payne is worth a 2nd rounder… what’s Smith worth?
Would this be fair?
Payne + #97 for
Smith + #83
NFL Draft Value Chart shows #83 worth 175 pts and #97 worth 112 points… that 63 point difference is equivalent to pick 115/116… so a mid round 4th.