Is Devin Funchess a possible alternative to Dorial Green-Beckham?
Trade up for a receiver? Stay put? Draft the best offensive lineman on your board?
Our conversations over the last few weeks have been dominated by these questions. This weekend, two different seven-round mocks highlight the possibility that Seattle’s front office will be having the same debate.
Evan Silva and Josh Norris have put together a list of needs and a seven round Seahawks projection.
Silva: “Seattle’s offensive line could afford upgrades, beginning with center and left guard…. The Seahawks have one of the NFL’s weakest receiver corps.”
Norris’ mock has them taking Devin Funchess at #63: “The Super Bowl and acquiring Jimmy Graham makes it seem like Seattle is putting an emphasis on contested catches.”
Funchess is an interesting case. It’s logical to expect the Seahawks will target size. They already have one of the better slot receivers in Doug Baldwin. They’re likely to add a smaller receiver who can return kicks on day three (more on that later). Outside of one-game wonder Chris Matthews there’s a distinct lack of size on the perimeter.
They went away from this last year, seemingly believing speed and the intermediate game would mesh nicely with their power-run attack. Let’s call it the ‘Percy Harvin blueprint’. When Harvin departed the Seahawks lacked the punch to make it work. Having already lost their best contested-catch maker in Golden Tate, they didn’t really have a red-line winner who could make the tough grab.
The reported interest in Vincent Jackson before the trade deadline suggested a change in philosophy. In fairness to the Seahawks, nobody can argue they’re stuck in their ways. They’re willing to evolve.
This probably doesn’t stop with Jimmy Graham. It’s not about one player, in particular a player who’s going to work the middle exploiting match-ups against linebackers. They need that taller outside threat — and they’re unlikely to thrust all their hopes solely on Matthews based on the Super Bowl.
There’s a reason Tony Pauline is reporting interest in Dorial Green-Beckham and a reason why we’ve spent so much talking about him as a possible trade target. Seattle’s offense will always be run-first — but that puts more pressure on the passing game when you do throw the ball. With Baldwin in the slot, Graham working the seam and a dynamic big target outside — the Seahawks can finally field an offense as potent as the league-leading defense.
If they can’t get into range for DGB — the closest alternative is Funchess. He’s slower, less sudden and has nothing like Green-Beckham’s upside. There are question marks about his drive at Michigan. He certainly underwhelmed. But he is a big target who can make plays downfield, box-out defenders and win contested catches.
He wasn’t always reliable at Michigan. It kind of makes this performance against Ohio State all the more frustrating:
He’s making tough grabs, he’s finding ways to get open. He has a chunk play downfield. He looks good.
We just didn’t see enough of this in college.
He’s definitely a build-up speed runner but he can eat up space with long strides. He has one of the best head-fakes you’ll see, setting up a corner to the inside before a nifty little double move to create separation.
If the Seahawks just want a big target they can work with, Funchess could be a consolation prize if DGB ends up elsewhere. He isn’t too dissimilar to Mike Williams. That might put you off — but clearly Carroll has time for that kind of receiver.
Funchess didn’t have a great combine, running a 4.70 at 232lbs. You’re not drafting him to run by people though. You’d be drafting him for this:
The great thing about Green-Beckham is the rare gliding ability at his size and the YAC potential. He’s a downfield threat at a playing weight of around 225lbs. That’s insane. Funchess isn’t the same smooth athlete. He can go up and get a football though — and he has underrated ball-skills and the ability to work to get open.
There are divided opinions on him. Lance Zierlein has him down as the #88 player in the draft. Bob McGinn’s anonymous scouts have him right behind Green-Beckham with an early second round grade: “I wouldn’t take him first (round) but I’d take him early two.”
It’s an alternative option that could be a possibility at #63 or with a small move up the board. Make no mistake though — he’s no DGB. Is he ‘Seahawky’ enough? Is he the gritty determined character they want at the position? Or is he just a slightly passive big target without the offsetting speed and dynamism DGB provides?
Norris has the Seahawks taking Frank Clark at the bottom of round three: “Clark is an outstanding athlete who flashes bend and a conversion of speed to power.” If you’re looking for an impact D-end in the middle rounds, Clark’s probably the best bet (if you can live with the character flags).
You can see the mock for yourself but Norris also gives the Seahawks guard Mark Glowinski and center Shaq Mason in round four. My only question here — is Glowinski big enough? Seattle has used major size at left guard under Tom Cable. Ty Montgomery is also taken in round five.
Increasingly Montgomery is being paired with the Seahawks. He’s tough and plays with grit. He can be more than just a kick-return specialist — although he excels there. Character wise he ticks all the adequate boxes and seems like he’d fit right into Seattle’s ultra-competitive locker room. I’d almost be surprised if he wasn’t taken in round four or five. Whenever they can get him.
The Seahawks need a productive kick-returner who can contribute. Special teams is the one unit on the roster (kick returns specifically) that can dramatically improve in 2015. It’s going to be a priority. So much so — don’t be shocked if some of Seattle’s later round picks or UDFA’s carry specific special teams qualities.
Interesting: Of all his pre-draft visits, @StanfordFball WR @TyMontgomery2 said he enjoyed @Seahawks the most. @SiriusXMNFL @JackOnSports
— Alex Marvez (@alexmarvez) April 26, 2015
Lance Zierlein and Chad Reuter have also put together a seven-rounder for Seattle. They have the Seahawks taking Hroniss Grasu at #63, Tre McBride in round three and of course Ty Montgomery is a fourth round selection.
Both scenarios make a lot of sense. The Seahawks can take the big receiver early and address a defensive need (or even running back) in round three because the depth is so good on the O-line this year. Yet if the options at receiver don’t match up at #63 (and a trade up isn’t possible) taking the top offensive lineman on your board in round two makes just as much sense.
Grasu is intelligent, athletic and just a really solid prospect. You have to be comfortable with the injury history (could be a difference maker given Max Unger’s health issues) but nobody is going to be left scratching their heads if the Seahawks take Grasu at #63. McBride isn’t a big, physical mismatch like DGB or Funchess, but he’s ultra-competitive, wins the contested catch, is certainly athletic enough with special teams value and he’s a great character guy.
You can easily imagine both players in Seattle.
Again, there’s no right or wrong answer here. Everyone will have their own opinion on what they should do — but for a while now it seems like the options are:
1. Trade-up for a receiver
2. Look at the remaining wide-outs at #63
3. Take the best O-lineman on your board
These two seven-round mocks are a further example of that situation. I think we’ll almost certainly see a power running back drafted in rounds 3-5 (neither mock has considered that scenario). Mike Davis remains an option. It’s interesting that in some quarters he’s rated as high as a third rounder — and yet Bob McGinn’s poll of scouts had him outside the top-12 for the position. If the Seahawks can get him in round four — keep an eye on that. With Todd Gurley now expected to go in the top 10-15 and Melvin Gordon likely to follow, we could see the entire class jolted upwards slightly.
The Seahawks have had a lot of success finding cornerbacks in the fifth and sixth round range. They’ll surely add a corner at some point — but it’s probably unlikely to be early unless a big name suffers an unexpected fall. It was good to see SDB favorite Damien Swann projected to Seattle in Norris’ mock. He lacks ideal arm length but he’s a real playmaker.
A heads-up for the rest of the week. We’ll have a podcast on the blog on Tuesday, with a final mock draft on the Wednesday. I’ll probably do two rounds and cover rounds 3-7 for the Seahawks. On Thursday I’ll be doing a live Google Hangout for the third draft in a row with Kenny and the guys at Field Gulls.
Can’t wait for the google hangout. Those are always a lot of fun to watch.
The Google hangouts with rob and fielfgulls are the best! No offense to fieldgulls but they just don’t have the same substance without you rob!
Agreed!
Nice write up as always!
On Funchess – prior to his pro day/combine and getting Jimmy, I thought Funchess was a possibility, but not anymore. Taller receiver – yes, but I don’t think Funchess is Seahawky enough to be drafted by Seattle. It will be interesting to see what happens if he is there at 63. I’m not sure Funchess give you anything more than Chris Matthews does. Matthews ran a 4.5-4.6 6’5″ and already knows the system and can play on special teams. Am I missing something?
McBride and Ty would be a nice combination of draft choices. But I keep thinking about Kevin Norwood – can he stay on the field and be healthy enough to grab a spot? McBride and Norwood are very similar in size and stature and times – Norwood a little taller and McBride a bit quicker – but both are good route runners and catch the ball well. What does everyone think about Norwood vs drafting a good WR in this draft?
Just so you know, I’m not advocating for Matthews or Norwood, just thinking that maybe we have the tall WR and the solid pass catcher already on the team. I do think we need a returner either as WR or RB.
I am assuming DGB isn’t available at 63 – so we’d be down to the next tier of WRs.
If DGB and Funchess are gone, I think Seattle targets Tyler Lockett. He is a very good ST player.
He is possibly the best KR/PR in the draft, then add in the production and NFL bloodlines…the workaholic tendency, and I think the Seahawks would love to add him… at #63, or w a small trade up…
I think a Funchess pick at #63 would be a sign that they’re forcing the ‘big receiver’ thing a little. Not that he can’t be effective, but he’s nowhere near as explosive as DGB. On Matthews vs Funchess, I didn’t study him at Kentucky so can’t offer a detailed view.
Rather than shoehorn in a tall receiver early, I’d just wait till the end of the draft and take a player like Blakeney. Probably not much functional difference between the two other than name recognition. And of course there is always my man-crush of this draft, Darren Waller, but I don’t think he will last till day three.
The more I think about it the more I want Donovan Smith at 63. Getting a player in the second round who can cheaply replace Okung next season and has the potential to be an actual, elite LT would be as big as any draft jackpot hit in the PCJS era.
I don’t see us forcing a big receiver at all. Last year, we passed on both Jordan Matthews and Martavis Bryant. Two players I’d consider far better prospects in college to Funchess.
Pete said at the time that we didn’t like the size/speed combination at the big WR pool. Obviously in Bryant’s case, there was something else that dulled our interest in him. But Funchess is nearly glacial compared to the big WRs of last year.
I don’t see really any way he’s on our board at all. I don’t even see us pulling a Jesse Williams type move to take a guy who fell way below value. Mostly, because I think by the late 4th/5th round, we’re going to load up on defense in that range. Probably get 2 of either DL/DB, with 1 of the other. I don’t think we’ll pass up defense or OL in that 4th through 5th round range.
I think he’s too slow. And I think that lack of speed is pretty evident on film.
Seattle loves speed.
Funchess ran a ~4.5 at his pro day, so let’s no discount his “speed”. I like the idea that he could bulk up a bit, then you can have him and Graham motion / having interchangeability on offense, while playing at the same time.
This can potentially warp the defenses and create holes and mismatches for either the rush or the passing game.
Funchess was viewed as a late 1st rounder, until the combine, then tumbled. Value pick.
Charlie – Funchess and Matthews time is pretty much the same – I guess I’d like to know why drafting him is better than sticking with Matthews? And again – I’m not saying Funchess isn’t better, just looking at this from a personnel standpoint.
CC, the reason for another big WR is twofold.
One is to create a nightmare Triple Towers formation of Graham, Matthews and Rookie Taller WR. As EranUnger has advocated extensively here at at FieldGulls, having that third Tower leaves a extra mismatch for defenses. Two Towers is dangerous by itself, but three is far worse. We want this.
The second reason is insurance. How do we know Matthews is the real deal, or a one-hit wonder? Will he be the Matthews of the Super Bowl and the Winnepeg Blue Bomber who was CFL Rookie of the Year, or the guy who couldn’t follow up on that promise and wound up working at Foot Locker before the Seahawks found him?
In fact, therefore, it would not be “forcing the issue” at all if they got two more taller wideouts in this draft. Not necessarily giants, but taller than 6-1 and capable of an above the rim game.
That, as well as opening camp with quick and fast smurfs at WR and at RB.
Always having options—the ability to go all big, all small or big plus small depending on the opponent—is, I think, the key to an offense that is unstoppable.
It is time to stop being predictable.
What do you mean “couldn’t follow up on that promise”? You make it sound like he was cut from the CFL and ended up working at Foot Locker to survive when he was added by the Seahawks. He battled a turf toe injury and only played 4 games his injury plagued 2nd CFL season if that’s what you’re talking about.
He was working at Foot Locker during that offseason when the Seahawks added him mere days after their SB victory. The CFL season had concluded at the end of November.
Steele – are you deliberately omitting Willson from your “triple towers” scenario?
I am on the Matthews bandwagon. But after the super bowl I stopped paying close attention to the team for awhile. Has Carroll or Schnieder commented much on Matthews going forward???
I have not heard anything about Matthews. The last news that caught my attention was that when most of the veterans went to Hawaii on their team building trip, Matthews caught up with them later. I don’t know if there is anything to read into that.
Matthews was with them in Hawaii. He just happenedo be playing golf on a spectecular course during the photo op.
Should we also read into the fact that the Roadrunner aka ET, Beastmode, and Black Santa weren’t there too?
I saw Matthews in the group photo. He’s the tall one in the back row. You can’t miss him.
I’ve heard Pete mention Matthews in radio interviews since the SB when recounting how they’re moving forward and how he was thrilled about Matthews having his “breakout” game, Jimmy, and all that. Just basic Pete-speak that you’d completely expect to hear him say.
Nice to know, thanks Arias. I fully expect ‘Hardball’ aka Chris Matthews to be a big part of this team going forward.
Ah yes, the remarkable improvement of a pro-day.
4.7 to sub 4.5. He plays like a 4.7 guy on tape.
Why the 40 isn’t timed electronically and standardized baffles me. It makes what should objective subjective.
Charlie, yes. Additional big targets “warp defenses and create holes and mismatches”.
Funchess. (Sigh.) What a tough one. He would seem to fit the job description. Seems to have the speed. Seems is the word. Does he have the intensity and the hunger to play up to his potential? Do we get the 4.5 Funchess or the 4.7 Funchess, and why doesn’t the 4.5 version show up all the time?
He is a value if the better version of him is what a team gets.
If not, Dezmin Lewis can be the guy followed by the very raw Darren Waller, Isaac Blakeney, Kenny Cook, Ian Hamilton. There are also reasonably big but not giant WRs at 6-3: Tyrell Williams, Lance Lewis, Deontay Greenberry.
If they miss out early — I think they leave it. Seattle has enough project wide outs. If they’re going to add another WR I suspect it’ll be an impact guy taken as early as possible.
Here a more in depth scouting review on Devin Funchess.
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/devin-funchess
I mention in last article that Seattle is looking and needs that split end receiver and there is quite a drop off after DBG leaves the boards. Theirs only 2 split ends on the roster right now and that’s Clay Mathews and Paul Richardson.
Clay?
I’m sure his hair has ‘split ends’.
We have allocated much more of our Cap Space to defense than offense. Why not focus on offense this draft. If we want to take our offense to the next level with the addition of Graham why not go all the way. The more I think about it a trade up with our regular trade partner Vikings gets us in front of most teams looking for a wide out in the 2nd round.
I think we trade our 2nd, our 4th (original no the one from NO) and a 3rd next year to move up and grab DGB.
Then take Grassu with 95 as I think he slides into that range with injury issues. Then take Poole, Morse or Glowinski at 110. Then Montgomery at the end of round 4.
We could then focus on Defense for the remaining 6 picks.
Preach. Totally down with this if it’s possible.
Not to poke holes, but I don’t see MIN making that trade, at least from a point value perspective.
It doesn’t add up even if you use the R4 from NO instead of their original. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it, but I wouldn’t expect it to be easy.
chawk what do you think it would take? I don’t know if they would do it either but if they would I think it would be worth it for us.
I don’t you were far off. Using your example of MIN, my guess is 63 + 112 + 2016 R3 for 45.
Points-wise it looks like: 276 + 70 + 64 = 410 in exchange for 450. This point scale isn’t exact, although I’m sure teams use it as part of their trade evals. It’s within 10%, and this is a rich draft at several positions in R4. I don’t see why MIN wouldn’t do it, unless they had someone they felt adamant about at 45.
If we trade with ATL or CLE (or even NO, stranger things have happened), then replace 112 with 95. It still doesn’t quite add up, but again, it’s probably close enough.
Of course there is the possibility of a player-pick package.
If you have to look for a RB. 45 wouldn’t be a bad spot could get a Jay Ajayi, who I would grab in a heartbeat there.
I see a mini run on the position in R2. After Gurley and Gordon go in R1, could be another 3 RBs off the board by the end of R2.
I would rather Waller or Dezmin Lewis.
As far as cb, Rob what round are you hearing Ron Fields go?
I love Morse at LG, than Center. Marpet, Cann, Burwell and Liedtke are better suited for Center imo.
STILL think Chris Conley is perfect combo of tall enough receiver and KR, which would allow you to draft another WR of PCJS liking. Whether they want a tall receiver, or all around receiver like Coates first, then Conley. I just don’t see the need to waste a pick on specialist when you can get Conley?
I would unequivocally take Clark over Funchess. Super Bowl showed we need another pass rusher opposite Avril. Bennett better inside at 3T.
Nate, the Hawks need a lot of things on both sides of the ball. If they play it right, they can get most of the needs met. I think it would be possible to get both Funchess and Clark, if that is what they want to go for. They are not my favorite options at either postion.
I wouldn’t be a huge fan of picking Funchess but one thing to consider is how poor his QB play was. Devin Gardner was a fun college player to watch because of his athleticism but had little clue who to distribute the ball to at the right time.
Good point. The same might be said in rebuttal of the arguments against Waller.
Some people may remember me posting the first 2 rounds of a 7 round mock that myself and 31 others took part in. A team each, trades allowed, 7 rounds. Took about a month to do, so obviously some players will have dropped/risen after some were picked. Here’s how my Seahawks picks ended up:
2.31 – Ty Sambrailo, OT/OG, Colorado State
3.31 – Henry Anderson, DE, Stanford
4.13 – Andy Gallik, C, Boston College
4.31 – Kenny Bell, WR, Nebraska
4.35 – Clayton Geathers, SS, UCF
5.31 – Ryan Russell, DE, Purdue
5.34 – Dezmin Lewis, WR, Central Arkansas
6.05 – Kristjan Sokoli, DT, Buffalo
6.33 – Terry Poole, OL, San Diego State
6.38 – Tye Smith, CB, Towson
7.31 – Rob Crisp, OT, NC State
We did extend it to UDFA too, but I reckon only half the teams took part in that. But still, here’s a couple I managed to pick up during that:
Thomas Rawls, RB, Central Michigan
Cameron Clear, OT/TE, Texas A&M
Dillon Day, C, Mississippi State
Kenny Cook, WR, Gardner-Webb
Neal Sterling, WR, Monmouth
Chris Harper, WR, California
John Timu, LB, Washington
Matthew Wells, LB, Mississippi State
Darryl Roberts, CB, Marshall
Harold Spears, TE, UNH
I like your UDRFA alot….. some are prob 6th rounders, but I like the names involved
Didn’t Seattle work out Sambrailo extensively/only at the C position?
Was it exclusively just at C?
Either way, by the time that information came about we’d already got down to the seventh round.
Timing is everything on this, Sokoli could have landed to me in UDFA or even 7.31, but around the 4th round was when he was getting a bit of buzz around the internet so I didn’t want to risk him going elsewhere.
You have Sokoli in the same spot I do. Nice.
Just playing Devil’s advocate, but we can’t entirely rule out a trade down from 63.
Not simply for an extra Day 3 pick though. I could see a round swap type of thing where SEA trade 63 + 130 to ATL for 73 + 107
SEA end up with 73, 95, 107, 112, 134, 167, 170, 181, 209, 214, 248
I think this is a very likely scenario. There is a risk of being too cute, but if there are 4 guys of equal value and you move back a few spots, gaining some draft position later in the draft…. I’m for it.
I like how lance zerlien (sp?) appeared to do his mock for Seattle with the greatest range of “huh?” Picks he could squeeze into.
Alternately I was thoroughly impressed with norris/silva’s mock paying deference to Seattle’s physics requirements.
I think Norris and Silva are two of the best in the ‘biz. Very informative and I always feel like I’ve learned something new or my ears perk up after I’ve read their stuff, watched/read their breakdowns, x’s & o’s stuff, etc.
Jamon Brown, Louisville 6’4 323.
Interesting LT, RT and possible G – 6-7 round projection. I would like to see in Seattle “Alvin Bailey type”.
I got
63 Special team guy
95 OL
112 OL
130 DL
134 WR(split end type)
167 OL
170 Pass rusher
181 Pass rusher
209 OL
214 RB
248 WR
UDFA 1 will be Doniel Gambrell T division II guy and give him signing bonus of 15k and hope he makes practice squad. 6’6″ 315lbs perfect project.
I would be severely disappointed if Seattle took a pure “special team guy” at 63. That’s our first pick in this draft; I would much rather think they would snag an impact player and grab a special team specialist later on. I know our special teams need some work but not enough to warrant a second round pick on it.
He was actually returner and WR but I already hate this draft scenario cause it lacks. I really need to fit another defensive player with some talent in sooner. I disregard this since I’ve gone back to the drawing board and looking thru mu first drafts before FA and the combine. Sometimes the draft you do back them are more realistic because it’s all about film and stats.
It seems that every year John and Pete do the unexpected. Even when we guess correctly (WR last year) or Pete comes out and tells us (Leo three years ago), we never identify the correct guy. We tracked a half dozen WRs last year and Paul Richardson was never one of them. And same at Leo, we tracked a bunch of guys for R1 in 2012, and Bruce Irvin was never one of them.
Therefore, I almost expect the unexpected. My brain tells me OL, my heart tells me WR, but my gut keeps telling me DL, and illogical as it seems, it would not surprise me if Mario Edwards or Grady Jarrett is the pick at #63. Especially since the tall SE options are not good (Funchess fails John’s ‘competitive test,’ as Rob notes, and DGB will go late R1 or early R2) and since G/C seem plentiful in R3 thru R5.
The safe Seahawks draft is OL in R2 and again in R4. There is a real need, and the prospects appear better than usual at G and C. After all, with Graham, Baldwin, Kearse, Norwood, Matthews and Willson (and eventually Richardson also), receiver seems in pretty good shape for this year at least. And the DL is pretty well set for this year also, with Hill, Marsh, Mebane and Scruggs returning to health (and maybe even big Jesse also), and the very under-rated Ahtyba Rubin coming aboard.
If John and Pete were selecting the OL, then the ‘unique talent’ guys they almost certainly would select are Ali Marpet and Hroniss Grasu. But Tom Cable loves him some beef, and also loves the late round guys, so a more conventional mauler at LG (Cann, Tomlinson or Jackson), or the versatile swing guy like Sambrailo or Morse, may be the better guess? Cable is probably OK waiting until R4 for a C, someone like Finney, Mason or Gallik. If the R2 pick is Marpet or Grasu, we will know that John and Pete prevailed in the war room.
I encourage everyone to watch the tape of Tre McBride and Ty Montgomery for punt returner. I was surprised by how much better McBride looked, in my opinion, and I wonder if others agree or disagree?
Grady Jarrett would be a great pick at 63. Edwards, ehhh I’m not sold on him.
James, I’ve watched the tapes of McBride and Montgomery extensively, along with the film of many others.
If you are saying McBride is a better returner than Montgomery, it’s arguable:
PR:
McBride 11/ 122 yds Avg. 23.1 No TDs
Montgomery 12/238 Avg. 19.8 2 TDs
KR:
McBride 56/1294 yds Avg 23.1 No TDs
Montgomery 91/2493 Avg 27.4 3 TDs
I think either is fine as a returner, and there are others besides these two who can do that job as well.
Both have the character and grit that Seattle likes at the position, not to mention their character is through the roof and both would fit in amazingly inside the Seahawks locker room.
Seattle wants unqiue athletes, but they also want unique/gritty personalities as well.
There’s something fishy with McBrides numbers. 11 returns for 122 yards doesn’t average 23.1 yards. Not even half that. That makes Montgomery far better than McBride.
Last week I said if I had to choose a “lock” pick for SEA that far in advance of the draft, it would be Josh Shirley on Day 3. I reasoned that the LB position group isn’t one of immediate need, so not likely to be addressed early, but SEA probably won’t ignore it entirely. Also, at the time I thought Shirley was the only LB-type prospect to receive special attention from SEA, besides which he’s a very explosive athlete. 1 + 1 = 2, and SEA will probably target Shirley late.
I bet some of you thought: “Shirley he must be joking!” No, and I wasn’t Joshing you either.
Shirley’s a strange fit. He’s a back field penetrator – he made only 6 solo tackles last year for UNLV, and all 6 were behind the LOS – 2 sacks and 4 TFL. Too small for a traditional DE, he projects mostly to SAM. Maybe he’s a LEO candidate? That made me think about another OLB/DE tweener sack specialist that PC drafted – Bruce Irvin.
Irvin supposedly was PC’s “ideal” LEO, but he struggled at that position early. Now he’s developed into a capable SAM, but really he’s a new kind of hybrid OLB/LEO (allow me to use the more general term EDGE from here out). Shirley doesn’t quite have Irvin’s stature. He’s about midway between Irvin and BWags in terms of height an weight. However, he’s every bit an explosive athlete as either of them.
Since last week I’ve come to learn that Shirley isn’t the only LB-type EDGE to have caught SEA’s scouting eye. EDGE Darius Allen, CS-Pueblo, and EDGE Sam Wren, OK ST, both worked out for the team (though neither visited VMAC), and of course EDGE Frank Clark visited VMAC (but didn’t workout). Clark is the odd one here size and role-wise – more LEO/DE hybrid than OLB/LEO. But he’s an EDGE threat and belongs in this group for sure.
FWIW, I don’t know that SEA scouted any traditional LB-type prospects this year. Maybe I’m mistaken and one of my fellow bloggers can correct me. As far as I know, this year they’re interested only in these SAM/LEO and LEO/DE EDGE prospects.
Below is a compilation of data about SEA LEO’s past and present, compared with the current crop of EDGE prospects we know are on SEA’s radar. I included Combine and pro day results for each to compare them as athletes. Additionally, I compared the statistical production for each one’s final college season because we’ve been discussing on the blog the relative merits of Combine performance vs. on-field production in determining a prospect’s chances of success.
Also, I included Shaq Thompson in the comparison. He isn’t a SAM/LEO hybrid, nor is there any information to suggest SEA has looked into him beyond attending his pro day. But he is well known to the SEA coaches, he has an “EDGE” aspect to his game, and he’s a favorite of many SDBers.
Cast of Characters
LEO’s Past and Present:
Chris Clemons – CC – as close to PC’s “ideal” LEO as he’s had thus far
Cliff Avril – CA – current LEO
Bruce Irvin – B I – drafted to be the “ideal” LEO, currently SAM; is he a SAM/LEO hybrid?
Cassius Marsh – CM – drafted for depth at LEO/DE
2015 NFL Draft EDGE prospects SEA had contact with beyond Combine/Pro Days:
Frank Clark – FC – OLB/DE UM – private meeting @ VMAC (no workout)
Josh Shirley – JS – OLB UNLV – private meeting @ VMAC (no workout)
Darius Allen – DA – OLB CS-Pueblo – WORKOUT
Sam Wren – SW – DE/OLB – OK ST – WORKOUT
Shaq Thompson – ST – OLB – WASH – none
Combine/Pro Day Results Comparison
Name HT/WGT 40/20/10; SS/3C; VJ/BJ; BP
CC 6’3″ 236; 4.68/2.75/1.72; 4.66/7/48; 35.0″/118″; 18
CA 6’3″ 253; 4.51/2.58/1.51; 4.31/6.90; 32.5″/117″; 27
B I 6’3″ 253; 4.50/2.66/1.58; 4.03/6.70; 33.5″/123″; 23
CM 6’4″ 252; 4.70/2.81/1.72; 4.25/7.08; 32.0″/118″; 14
FC 6’3″ 271; 4.66/2.63/1.58; 4.05/7.08; 38.5″/118″; 19
JS 6’2″ 234; 4.59/2.65/1.58; 4.45/7.39; 38.5″/122″; 24
DA 6’2″ 229; 4.73/2.72/1.60; 4.30/7.06; 32.0″/114″; 19
SW 6’2″ 255 no Combine/pro day due to injury (knee)
ST 6’0″ 228; 4.64/2.75/1.69; 4.08/6.99; 33.5″/117″; 20
One thing that stands out to my eye is how similar Clark’s numbers are to Clemons. Better in almost every category to be sure, but strikingly similar nonetheless. Clark’s numbers also are very close to Irvin’s. Leaving aside the final 40 time, Clark runs even with or slightly ahead of Irvin at 10 and 20 yards. Their SS times are virtually identical, and although Irvin was better in the 3-cone and broad jump, it wasn’t by much; and Clark crushed Irvin’s vertical. Shirley’s numbers also stand out; he too is fairly similar to Irvin – quicker to 10 and 20 yards, better vertical.
Final College Season Stats Comparison
I hope this makes sense. Games played; solo tackles/assists/total tackles; sacks; TFL; FF/FR; INT/YD; PD; QB HRRY
CC 12; 26/28/54; 1.0; 4.5; 0/0; 0/0; 2; 3
CA 13; 32/08/40; 6.5; 15.0; 3/0; 1/43; 0; 0
B I 13; 27/13/40; 8.5; 15.0; 3/0; 0/0; 0; 0
CM 13; 35/20/55; 6.0; 8.5; 0/0; 0/0; 1; 0
FC 10; 29/13/40; 4.5; 13.5; 3/0; 0/0; 0; 0
JS 13; 06/14/20; 2.0; 4.5; 2/0; 0/0; 0; 0
DA 15; 39/33/72; 15.5; 23.0; 5/3; 0/0; 0; 0
SW 13; 15/10/25; 2.0; 6.0; 0/0; 0/0; 0; 3
ST 14; 52/29/81; 1.0; 2.5; 3/0; 1/36(1TD); 0; 0
Not sure how helpful it is to include Clemons here. His production out of UGA wasn’t bad, but he already had a pro resume by the time PC went shopping for him. However, based on Avril, Irvin and Marsh, a high level of production in college seems to be important to SEA. This would favor Frank Clark, Darius Allen and Shaq Thompson. In particular, Clark’s 4.5 sacks and 13.5 TFL, and Allen’s 15.5 sacks and 23 TFL.
On paper, Clark looks like a great LEO prospect. His game tape doesn’t necessarily wow (even if he does flash), but you can’t deny his production. If SEA thought Marsh was worth pick 108 last year, certainly Clark is worth 95?
If they miss on him in R3, I expect them to take one of Shirley or Allen on Day 3/UDFA.
Clark is a tough guy to read, draft stock wise (late 3rd – early 7th). He has a DV case in his past and was kicked off the team in college. These are two big time red flags. The knowledge that Seattle brought him in for a visit, shows they might have an interest, despite these transgressions.
My take on it is that if he slips to them in the late 5th round (unlikely), they will pull the trigger. But, not before that point.
As for Shirley, he is projected as a 7th round type of guy. Maybe a 6th max. Late round value would be worth a shot on him. You make a compelling argument and he would have some value at that point for this defense.
Nice summary, CHawk. Seattle very much needs to add another developmental Leo, and I fully expect them to draft one among their three R4 picks. Clark seems the likely guy. Shirley is undersized for the Edge, it seems, more likely a Will LB?
As a comparison to Bennett:
MB 6’3″ 274; 4.86/2.76/1.62; no SS/3C; 36.5″/112″; 24. BTW Bennett is listed at 6’3″ and 6’4″.
FC 6’3″ 271; 4.66/2.63/1.58; 4.05/7.08; 38.5″/118″; 19
Size wise, Clark is another Michael Bennett. Athletically, he’s more like Irvin.
That’s a scary combo if you think about it.
Also, Bennett wasn’t highly regarded in his draft. From one scouting report:
“A bit of a “tweener” who lacks great explosiveness off the edge and great bulk to handle double-team blocking on the power side . . . Lacks great change-of-direction skills in the open field . . . a physical specimen who has never added up to the sum of his parts. He lacks both the explosiveness in the pass rush and anchor against the run to be projected as a starter in the near future. As a project, he does have some things going for him though. His length will allow him to practice at either end of the line, and he has experience at both positions. He has adequate-to-good speed for pressuring the blocker, and he knows how to use his hands in a bull rush, one of his few moves. Not a lot going for him, but enough to stand above others this late in the draft.”
In 2017 Avril will be 31 with 2 years remaining on his contract and a $13.5mm combined cap hit for 2017-18.
Michael Bennett will also be 31, with 1 year left on his contract and a cap hit of $9.5mm.
SEA has yet to pick up Irvin’s 5th year option or otherwise extend him.
Clark has the ability to develop into the kind of player who could replace Bennett or Avril, especially after 2 seasons of experience.
Shirley may be looked at as a development prospect to replace Irvin if necessary.
I’d take Clark and Shirley.
Shirley is unqiue. He’s an edge rusher for sure that will stand up, but he can also play wth his hand in the dirt. I think Seattle will take another one of these edge rushers. They’ll sacrifice size on the defensive side of the ball for speed and unique/dynamic playmakers. Shirley is full of potential.
I agree about Clark as well. Versatile in that he can stand up over the tackle and rush, play LEO, and do some of the same things as Bennett to a certain extent.
James, yes, I think Shirley could be a WILL LB. Darius Allen and Sam Wren are also interesting, and they are all low round or UDFA. I would love to see Pete work some magic with Shirley and make him as good as he was as a freshman. He looked like a first round pick that season.
James, every edge rusher that played the SAM role in college that Seattle brought in or worked out is only 6’2. Darius Allen, Sam Wren, Josh Shirley, Reshard Cliett. The NFL is changing and PC will evolve/adapt with it, unlike a lot of the league.
Just because a guy isn’t Bruce Irvin’s size doesn’t mean we should pigeon-hole them.
Cliett! Dang. I knew I missed one.
The freshman Josh Shirley looked like one of the best college football. Super explosive first step, fast around the edge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO7oFYpLfE8
Is that Josh Shirley hiding somewhere? If yes, I’d love to see him with the Hawks.
I agree with a rd in the mid to late rounds. My favorites in that range would be josh robinson and David johnson. Both check almost all the boxes the hawks ask for with robinson having one of the better back story’s in the draft. Both are high character guys and loved by their teams. If we could add kenny bell in the 4th or later I would be stoked. Bell just screens seahawks to me giving max effort at everything he does. His awareness on run blocking is on another level.
I don’t see a big difference between Josh Robinson and Eddy Lacy, athletically. Except Robinson doesn’t have the character and injury issues that Lacy had coming out. Wouldn’t be surprised if he went higher than we expect.
I definitely think he goes higher then expected. Most people rate him as a 6th rounder but I see him as a 4th
I don’t like Funchess, but love McBride. Smelter, Conley later. I think Strong could drop below DGB and Perriman, making him part of the trade-up conversation. I’m looking forward to the Google hangout. This is going to be so much fun.
I’d go all out to land DGB or Perriman. Future 3rd plus 63 or even richer, if needed. Especially DGB.
That is where I fall too – I like Smelter and Montgomery in the 4th rather than Funchess in the second and someone else later. DGB scares me – talented, but is he a head case? I know WRs are often diva like, but I’d rather not have someone who could act like Percy.
He’d scare me that way too, CC. Except that Bob Stoops is standing firmly in DGB’s corner, vouching for his work ethic and team play. Keep in mind that DGB did nothing for OK’s football program. He never played a down for them. Stoops has absolutely no obligation or pressure to portray him this way. Stoops is one of the more respected HCs in the country. He has the 2nd longest tenure of any coach in FBS. If he’s vouching for DGB in this way, it’s probably true.
CC, Smelter is still injured. He would be a consideration if a team could afford to red shirt him.
You can’t compare Smelter and Montgomery with Funchess and DGB,etc. Different kinds of players. Smelter is more the Golden Tate type, not the tall/big mistmatch model. You are making an either/or argument when they really should be looking at investing in both kinds, if possible.
Smelter is 6’2 or 6″3
6’2″ 226lbs
I somewhat agree with going all out for those two. I think once they leave the board it would be best to wait til the 4th to go receiver. I’m not a fan of strong, I think a lot of his contested catches are a result of bad position that he won’t be able to take advantage of at the next level.
I think we could further shift to add a receiving back. We could add our own Shane Vereen type. I wonder if Abdullah or Duke Johnson could be surprise targets somewhere along the way, however unlikely. Either would help special teams tremendously and add another dynamic element we haven’t had before. The future would be C-Mike and said running back in tandem.
That’s another reason I like david Johnson and josh Robinson. Both are good receiving backs but also fit the mold of backs that they like.
Misfit, I am all for this idea. A change of pace running back who can catch passes would add to the diversity of the offense greatly. As I wrote above, the ability to mix and match big and small weapons depending on the opponent is what Bevell should be exploring. I sure hope so anyway.
I like a back like Corey Grant in rd. 5 or Akeem Hunt in rd. 6-7. Abdullah would be a rd. 2, which complicates the top of the board.
Its probably just me but Funchess reminds me to much of Kris Durham. I just as so not revisit the same scenario again. What a waste of a good 4th round pick.
Can’t help but wonder if things might have been different with him if Russell were throwing him jump-ball dimes instead of whatever TJack was chucking. If this were the 2011 team then Funchess would likely be a bust also, but Russell is what could make a player like Funchess work, and maybe work well.
This is the year to build the offense and add a few depth pieces to a already outstanding defense. The draft this year is primed to build a formidable offense to help the defense which has pretty much carried the load.
Rob- While I agree in principle with your three scenarios, there is a big one you haven’t mentioned: a player at a position other than OL/WR that they have a top-20 grade on is there at 50-63?
What if Jalen Collins’ foot causes a free fall that PCJS can afford to stop?
What if Pete sees Grady Jarrett as a versatile 3-down stud that enables perfect rotations?
What if Shaq Thompson is just too field-flippy, and a gift at 63?
Are any of the above probable? Maybe not… But if the Hawks have shown us anything, it’s that they’re unconventional. In years past, they were clear on their draft intentions (partly be it was so obvious what they needed). This year, not much has been said… Maybe be they are truly going to let the board come to them.
I agree the first pick will likely be a WR/TE, but am
Certainly not willing to say it’s one of the only possibilities I can see.
I feel the same way, the options in these mocks are the most likely way they go. If a defensive player drops that they rate highly I think they jump on it. There’s a huge drop off in d talent from the 2 to 4th and not that big of a drop off from ol/wr if the boards fall the way there expected to. I don’t think it’s likely but I believe it’s not out of the question.
I still think they address their two key needs personally. Players have fallen to them in the past and they haven’t budged.
I guess that’s my point… Just b/c we deem them to be big needs, doesn’t mean the team does.
– Maybe they’re convinced Mathews and Norrell are bosses
– Maybe they see Lewis/LMJP/Bailey as minimal downgrades from Carp/Unger
– Maybe they’re already looking at the 2017 cap and see potential relief in this draft.
They are usually pretty transparent about their intentions… This year, nada. I want to say it’s 80/20 they’ll go OL/WR, but with this franchise, ya never know.
If DGB is gone, which is sounds like he will be, would the followers here be opposed to picking Sammie Coates? He seemed like a hot topic two months ago but has seemed to drop a little now. Could he develop into the #1 type WR that we could put on the outside? Or would you prefer Lockette if he was there?
Then Grasu in the 3rd or Morse?
I just want to gain some knowledge here so I know who to root for when watching the draft this coming weekend!
So, I’m hoping we go WR with the first pick and C with the second.
Do you prefer Lockette or Coates at WR at 63? Or someone else and why?
Grasu or Morse at C at 95? Or someone else and why?
Thanks for helping to inform a fellow fan – Go Hawks!!
I’m a no on Coates and iffy on Lockett. I have somebody else in mind.
Iffy on Lockett? Haven’t you been pounding the table for him?
I just wanted everyone to get use to me harping about a returner. I don’t like the little receiver and I also mentioned I hated the pick. No, I’m not going take Lockett he is exactly what he is and that’s a 3rd to 4th round guy. I want more value for my 2nd pick. would you like to know who.
Madmark, I am not a Lockett fan either. I just think you can get similar players without spending the higher pick for him.
I don’t think it will happen but if he fell to 63 I would take Jay Ajayi
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/jay-ajayi
I got a returner here at 63 and that is Tre McBride who stock has put in middle of the 3rd round now
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/tre-mcbride
I get my guy to take Walter’s roster spot and he will be in uniform no matter what as a returner. I don’t think he will have any problem finding time on the field as a WR.
Madmark, McBride would make a lot of people pretty happy as both WR and returner, even though he is not a burner, and has a game that is smooth and steady but not field flipping. But I would not take him earlier than rd. 3. I certainly prefer him to Lockett, but I prefer others to both.
Ajayi would be a logical Lynch successor, one of the best of those in this draft class. Matt Jones is the other one.
Matt Jones is physical but he’s not going to take it to the house unless it’s short yardages. I brought Rawl in because he a steal as a 6th round comp and will compete for a job. If push comes to shove I’ll address RB next year in which I hope to use a higher pick to get one. When we traded our first this year we pretty much put our self out of the running for a lynch replacement. Believe me I would have grabbed a Gurley, Gordon, or Ajayi in a heartbeat. I still have a chance for Ajayi but I really think he’ll be farther away than a DGB.
I say OT or DT at #63 if we can’t get DGB. Then C at #94. Then Montgomery, Clark, and either Dres Anderson or Dezmin Lewis in the 4th. Add Blakeney or Waller in 6-7.
Makes sense Rik.
Lots seem to pile on that he drops balls, as if Kearse and Luke Willson don’t. We signed Pete’s WR coach son who could help hands. Coates could eventually become a #1 type receiver.
Newest mocks have us mocked to go Edge like Preston Smith or Frank Clark.
could make sense with supply and demand of edge vs OL and WR.
I’m on the OL bandwagon.. plenty of quality talent around #63. If they must go with a DL or rusher, then so be it.
Coachmattson, haha, I have floated this same “but what you think of Sammie Coates” questions many times. I almost cringe because I know the backlash is coming!
Coates is the defintion of boom or bust. I can’t even tell watching his tapes repeatedly if he can catch. Play after play, I see lucky catches, body catches out of position, terrible technique, no routes. Can’t track balls. But—-he is blazing fast. I just don’t know what to make of him.
A team with a great receivers coach that can afford an experiment could take him and see. Are the Hawks that kind of team?
This is what confuses me. Montgomery flashes better technique and is a better receiver than Sammie IMO, he’s more versatile, more dynamic, can be used or line up anywhere on the field, but one is a ‘2nd rounder’ and the other a ‘4th?’
I get that Sammie’s character is high, but let’s make no mistake about it. Other than Abdullah, I’m not sure that there’s another highly rated personaliry than Montgomery’s.
If Sammie is worth a late 2nd or early 3rd than so is Montgomery in my book.
Volume, I think the difference in opinion comes down to spectacular big plays. Coates is faster, and simply more showtime. He moves like an athletic freak who is raw.
Montgomery is a guy who is developing a polished game, trying to do the technical things well, and is almost but not quite there.
Both played with mediocre QBs.
In my opinion, both should be rd. 4s.
Both are athletic freaks IMO.
I get what your saying about the big plays, but Montgomery was touted as a first/second rounder all off-season and early in the year. And because of drops, injuries, and inconsistent QB play now he’s a 4th rounder? I’d rather take giys loaded with potential instead of guys that are maxed out or have hit their ceilings, and I believe Seattle feels the same way. Take a moldable prospect with not many bad habits, mold him into your style and philosophy, and put your imprint on him. These are the types of selections Seattle will make this year. DGB falls into this category as well.
Lockett.
Along those same lines, assuming DGB is out of reach, what about Henry Anderson of Stanford at 63 or with a small move up? If Anderson was available at 63 and there was an OL prospect they liked but thought might be off the board at 95, perhaps then it would make sense to use one of their 4th rounders to move up in round 3. Thoughts?
If Pete and John want big than by all means, Funchess, Lewis, Waller, Smelter, or Taylor. But if we are looking for a TE, since Jimmy plays 65% outside. I would LOVE to grab either Walford or Heuerman, those are my guys. We need a Miller successor to help take pressure of our OL and right now there is not one single player in that TE room that can fill that void. Both Walford and Heuerman are STRONG Blockers with play making abilities, if either one slips from 112 to the end of 4 I don’t see how we can pass on them. It’s basically like drafting a starting OL that can play a large chunk of snaps because of their blocking, but also have the ability to stretch the seems, wreak havoc on LB’s, and pick up one of the extra men in the box. I really hope we end up with one of these two.
Absolutely agree on Heuerman! I believe he will be much more productive in the NFL tahn most people think. If he were to land with the Seahawks, I’d be super pumped cause I think he fits the system perfectly
Oh for sure, nfl total access reported that in combine interviews and team visits, that Clive Walford has some personality issues. Stating ” Clive acted as if he were doing teams a favor by sitting down with him and visiting”. I read that and don’t think too much into it past, that he’s going to come into a locker room (possibly ours?) and have to earn his spot and respect vs being a key player on a team and expecting respect from his peers. Especially in our building he will get checked into humble very fast being a rookie. If I had the choice, I’d take Heuerman because of his Actual team leadership and his work ethic, in all interviews I’ve watched of him he’s got humor but seems very grounded. But come round 4 I would love to see either Clive or Jeff available.
Jesse James in the 6-7 round. He’s big and will have a chip on his shoulder.
McCoy is supposed to be a functional blocking TE if he can keep his achilles tendons attached to his heels. But the point is well taken, though. A good blocking TE prospect early is not something we have talked much about and could be in play depending on how the board falls.
Rob- What is your take on the reports that the Hawks would take DGB at 63? Since he’s not expected to be there and the fact that they’re a tight lipped organization what is the motive for leaking that info?
SMOKE SCREEN / DEFLECTION from their true target
I think we’re all just overthinking here. Draft, just get here already.
If you had to guess who would be the true target? I can’t imagine a smokescreen needed for any of the dozen oline names mentioned here being if they lost one they could still pick 3 in any other round.
If its really a smokescreen the only thing I could see would be a,defensive player. I know you’re bullish on funchess and I can see some pros to his game but DGB smokescreen to draft Funchess? Maybe but I doubt it
It’s highly unlikely Seattle leaked that info. The league talks, info gets out there. Remember when Chris Mortensen told Russell Wilson he was going to be a Seahawk?
My take is I think they will try to trade up for DGB if he lasts beyond pick #50 — something that seems increasingly unlikely.
I’m going off the reservation, but how about Shaq Thompson from UW. He has natural quickness and there are comparisons to Levante David with the Bucs. Not an obvious fit, but the play making is undeniable.
This would be the 2nd round pick.
Charlie, Shaq Thompson doesn’t fit any role perfectly, but what a weapon to have.
I think if a defense is already fully stocked and just about complete, adding a Shaq Thompson puts an x-factor on the field that would drive opposing teams nuts. They would struggle to account for him. he would be a major irritant to receivers. He could come on blitzes.
Imagine if the Hawks had had him for the Super Bowl. Maybe he makes a key sack on Brady. Maybe he disrupts Edelman.
Bottom line, I see Shaq T as a luxury pick, a fun one. It would not shock me if they baffle us with a BPA kind of pick somewhere. I just think they have to make sure they don’t compromise meeting immediate needs.
I think you already have Shaq in Kevin Pierre Louis. KPL is a better athlete and is more instinctual at the LB position. I wouldn’t invest the Seahawks first pick on Shaq when they have needs at OL, WR, DL and DB
Great point.
Glowinski might not have the typical size, but he is a road grader type and moves so well to in space and quickly gets to the 2nd level. Always buries his guy/finishes them off. I think he has everything, but the size for the LG position. I can’t help but wonder if Seattle leans this way this year in terms of LG. I mean he’s only what 10 pounds away from being 320? Height doesn’t appear to be key, because if it was why the 6’3 1/2 ‘Pig’ Bailey?
Seattle also has really seemed to struggle running behind the left side the past couple years. It may be time to change things up. Interesting that they also brought in another highly athletic LG convert in Chaz Green.
Wouldn’t surprise me to see them stick with mass size at the LG position, but I also think they switch things up, take a different type of O-lineman like they do every year, and add something they don’t currently have at LG.
I’ve been thinking the same thing ever since Rob mentioned in his post Cable’s demonstrated preference for monster LGs.
I mentioned in an earlier comment that SEA averages a yard better per carry when they run to the right behind Britt/Sweezy (4.8) instead of the left behind (usually) Okung/Carp (3.7). I offered it in support of Britt as a decent R2 selection last year, which makes Morse a decent R2 selection this year by reason of extension and association. I mention it again here because Glowinski is about the same size as Sweezy.
What I didn’t mention earlier about SEA’s running game was that they improve their average per carry by another full yard (5.8) when they run in the middle – Sweezy/Unger/Carp. Not sure what that says about the value of extra large LG.
Are they take tired of worrying about if a guy shows up to TC overweight and out of shape?
I’m saying, Sweezy went from gawd awful to overall best OL on the team through hard work, dedication, and staying healthy enough to play and gain experience and develop chemistry.
Even Britt’s detractors grudgingly agree he improved over the course of the season – something he couldn’t have done if he wasn’t healthy and playing.
My post was more ‘just thinking out loud’ about the LG position on regards to being out of shape.
Could it be how the lineman’s frame takes the weight? Some guys can be 310-320 but are still pretty cut whereas others (Bailey) are 320 and look like a bowling ball
Interesting.
With a marshmallow coating…I wish he would melt about 30 pounds of that cheap off!
Spell checker hell…I meant crap.
Funny you should mention that. I was thinking that when they didn’t re up Carpenters 5th round option I think Cable already had Mitch Morse on his list for LG and he believed he could get him in the fourth round. One of the reasons I think this theory has some validity is in the trade for Jimmy Graham what made us take the saints pick in the 4th. Now with Ungar gone its an even better fit for Morse to move to center because he has some skill playing for a year. No matter what he’s a weight room warrior and has put on 125lbs. in 3 years. He won’t be showing up out of shape, I assure you of that.
It seems that more are joining the size WR wagon. I fully agree. To create miss matches from a team perspective it is best to add speed(PRich) to speed(Harvin) or size(?) to size(Graham). It enables you to put pressure on the slower or shorter DB, force the safeties to adjust and open the rest of the options.
However, once you understand that this is a role player you do not have to get WR1 type to play it. If the WR1 picks are not there at 63 you can get your tall target role player a round or two later and take the best value pic first.
The more i think about it the more i am sure that C/G will not be our first pic at 63. There seem to be more then enough of them to enable us to do that later too. I think we either trade down and use that extra pick to trade up into the 3rd/4th or we pick a high value pic – OT or EDGE/3 downs DT. Why spend your first pic on a position that costs 4-5M when you can do it later and pick a player at a position that costs 8M ?
We will pick a PR/KR WR. I think that is a fact. I also think it boils down to McBride or Montgomery. Both are capable and provide WR skills. However, i do not see them picking both of those guys. Pick one or the other. (i know who my favorite is…)
Also, JS seem to be evolving with his accumulated experience. The Chris Carter pick made him focus more on mental adaptability and character suitable to the Seahawks locker room. I think that the Hill, KPL, Marsh, PRich experience would add a new factor. I think the Seahawks will shy away from players with health questions or injury history. Medical red flags will be a no no this year. we want guys that can survive and be on the roster in the 19th game of the season…
Can’t wait for the show to begin…
EranUnger, I fully agree. The big target can be a good role player. It is possible in this draft to find really good ones for this role. DGB is the obvious name at the top, and I would even include Jaelen Strong, but there are many.
Bottom line, I don’t see it as an either/or, but three or four additions:
Another big target, perhaps two (one in the main draft, one developmental type in UDFA). A deep threat specialist like Dres Anderson or Conley. And one good punt and kick returner.
Rob, as always you have done a great job crystallizing the latest thinking. Major kudos as always.
A point to clarify. Regarding the need to add a “smaller receiver to return kicks”, why does the receiver necessarily have to be smaller? And why does it have be a receiver? I do think it is more likely that a smaller WR does the job, but players at other positions should be considered as well.
I suppose it doesn’t have to be a small receiver or a receiver at all. It’s just there happens to be a handful of smaller receivers who are also accomplished kick returners in this draft.
Good point Steele.
Check out Darryl Roberts CB. He can probably play inside and outside like Maxwell, but mostly inside like Lane, and can KR.
I couldn’t hold myself back. I just had to throw my draft out there.
31 Jimmy Graham WR/TE
63 Tre McBride WR/PR/KR
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/mitch-morse
95 Mitch Morse C
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/mitch-morse
112 Daryl Williams LG
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/daryl-williams
130 Tyler Davidson DT(1-tech)
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/tyeler-davison?id=2552329
134 Tony Lippett WR/CB
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/tony-lippett
167 Tyrus Thompson T
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/tyrus-thompson
170 Alana Fua OLB
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/alani-fua?id=2552683
181 Shaquille Riddick OLB/DE
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/shaquille-riddick?id=2552584
209 Greg Mancz C/G/T
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/greg-mancz?id=2552244
214 Thomas Rawl RB
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/thomas-rawls?id=2552648
248 DeAndre Smelter WR
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/deandre-smelter
UDFA Doniel Grambell T
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/doniel-gambrell?id=2553167
I would give this guy a 15K signing bonus also. The perfect project for the practice squad.
I love Fanaticalyankee for their very in depth scouting. Unfortunately they mostly do Offensive with a few high profile defensive guys sprinkled in. If you wonder how accurate they are I throw you an example from last year.
Odell Beckham WR
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/odell-beckham
How about one of our guys from last year and the year before that.
Paul Richardson WR
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/paul-richardson
Jordan Hill DT(3-tech)
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/jordan%20hill
They are pretty good at evaluating talent but its not the only site I look at I actually sift thru about 20 different websites as well as Google smaller schools for stand out athletes. This helps with Tape.
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/
It’s pretty fun and I really appreciate this web site that Rob create so I can voice my opinion and hide from the trolls on other sites that have no clue. I”d take any feedback you might have about my draft because I actually respect those that post on this website. Know that I will be looking at all of yours and if you want I’ll throw you my opinion.
I would be happy with this group Madmark!
Thanks Trevor. Looking at what I wrote I have to make correction.
63 Tre McBride
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/tre-mcbride
At this pick I may be able to drop back a few spots for may a 5th round swap but I wouldn’t go any farther then 80. Daryl Williams seems to be going off the board at 112 but he’s going to teams as LT and everything about this guy says LG to me. If he ain’t there I have to consider Jarvis Harrison LG from Texas A&M. Tony Lippet would be a great receiver but he got that size that Pete likes at 6’3″ 190lbs.
I realized that I really went heavy on the offense but really the defense is in pretty good shape and I’d like to see how the DL shakes out at the end of this year. I see more DL and RB next year for 2016.
I think it needs a few tweaks myself. I like the one I did after the trade with the Saints. This one just doesn’t help repair some depth issues on the defense. I’m thinking I need one more defensive player with more then 6 to 7th round talent. I got 2 more days.
What do you like about Thomas Rawl? Haven’t heard anything about him yet. I like Josh Robinson or Zach Zenner in the 6th round.
Weren’t you drafting Mario Alfonso a few weeks back? He seemed like a versatile change of pace guy that could do double duty on kick returns. Any thoughts on him?
Thomas Rawl is interesting. He’d be drafted higher up if not for trouble he got into and has cleared up. He a lot like Lynch as far as his ability to laterally move. He has that stop, jump right, and explode forward movement we see lynch do all the time. When you’ve run out of room he’ll lower that shoulder and put the boom on you. He’s short 5’9″ but he’s 215lbs. with all leg muscle and when he lowers that shoulder if your not lower you’ll bounce off. He hard to see going thru the line and by time you have him he out of reach with agility and spend. His 35th rush in a game will be as strong as the 1st rush of the game. No one is talking about him which makes him a steal at 214. This a year I see 2 RB in the 1st round and a run in the 2nd for the others. I not impressed with any RB after Gurley, Gordon, and Ajayi. I think you replace a Lynch with one of those three guys anyone else your looking for a value deal to replace the depth like Turbin or CM. Lynch isn’t gone and I know if we have to we can get a better chance to get a better back. Hell we might even have a late 1st round pick next year a perfect position to draft a RB.
By next year we can get former first rounder Trent Richardson for next to nothing.
Which is his value as RB. Next to nothing.
I really hope the Hawks do not take Mike Davis.
To those who say, well, you shouldn’t judge his 2014 tape because he was injured, here is 2013 tape:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4OpVfAUUQY
To me, he doesn’t look that much better. Reminds me a lot of Stevan Ridley, who is a marginal NFL back.
He is not a special running back.
Steele I agree 100% I would be very disappointed if we take him. If we take an RB early I hope it is Jay Ajaya and even better if we take one late Josh Robinson.
IMO, Seattle’s interest in him is due to the ability to make plays like the one at 3:26 in the video you posted Steele. Davis appears to have really good hands for a RB. He’s not overly explosive and isn’t going to take games over, but he looks like he gets decent yards after contact and can catch the ball well.
Heh, reminds me of Turbin’s ability actually and perhaps that is where the interest comes from. Turbin’s role as back-up RB and guy that comes in on passing downs is something the team values, but probably not enough to pay Turbin more than his rookie deal next year. Davis might make a good Turbin replacement, not a Lynch replacement.
That’s a pretty good comp but doesn’t it feel a bit wasteful…pick wise to plan for the departure of a guy who gets 10% of the touches? At least in that 3-4th round range. It seems to me when/if Turbin plays somewhere else they could get a veteran on a minimum contract and a couple of 6th round or udfa’s to battle it out for the player who gets 6 touches a game. I say a vet minimum because if they aren’t willing to pay Turbin 2 mil per year or so they would be looking to save money and probably for no other reason then that letting Turbin go
To be clear, I definitely would disappointed if they took him in the 2nd. A little “meh” if they took him in the 3rd. And would shrug and say “OK” if he was taken in the 4th. I do think he has elements that the team would like and that would be a good fit.
I do’t think the team is going to pay to keep Turbin next season so at the minimum, you’ll need his replacement. If he can step up and replace lynch, awesome, but if not, you at least have good depth and some sure hands out of the backfield.
Good hands in the passing game, surprisingly quick at times, capable cut and run back. He had a lot of average games at South Carolina but he’s ideal for this scheme.
Would prefer Zenner in the 6th. Use 2-4 for WR/WR/DL/OL/OL
I STILL am high on Malcolm Brown, rb from Texas Longhorns! He’s probably max bang for buck next to Zenner.
I like Zach Zenner as a hybrid rb/fb like Alfred Morris…could fill the 2nd fb/ST spot.
Absolutely agree. The more I eatch of him the more I like. I actually think he’s the best scheme fit in this draft.
Grinds out tough yards, runs through first contact, balanced, low center of gravity, extremely confident.
He’s not a wasteful pick at all. He’d make a phenomenal back being a part of the RBBC that Seattle will go after Lynch is gone.
This was in response to Rob and about Mike Davis.
I just don’t think the Seahawks will pick a running back until the 6th to UDFA when they are already overloaded with running backs. They barely use Turbin and don’t use Michaels. I’m not even sure you could rotate another running back in on a 50/50 basis without pissing Lynch off.
Ya, we wouldn’t want to piss off Lynch he might not show up for the strength and conditioning program. Snap, neve rmind he never show up for that anyways.
Alaska, we have gone over the RB situation a lot. It’s complicated. Yes, they have depth right now, but Lynch won’t last forever, Turbin is up next year, and nobody is certain what is up with CMike.
You can argue that this is a good time to get another feature back. But you can also justify not doing that until next year. And running backs in general are findable in most drafts, usually in good depth, so there is no rush.
On the other hand, if there is a prospect that is special —-like Gurley—that changes things.
The most compelling reason for a back this time around is to add a different kind of weapon to the offense, one that is unlike Lynch/Turbo/CMike.
A scatback who can also catch passes, who can drive defenses nuts, someone like Sproles or Vereen, would be useful. There are numerous options. I would target the lower rounds.
I’m all for a change of pace back. That is pretty much how they used Harvin when he was here. I still don’t see the need to pick a running back until the 6th round considering we have three right now. Many teams have gotten by with less then stellar running backs. Of course it helps if you have an offensive line that can block.
The right time to pick a first round running back will be a year from now with Turbin heading out the door or being resigned for cheap, and the Seahawks making a decision on Michaels. Hopefully when they do pick it will be somebody who is healthy and not injured.
‘Many teams have gotten by with less than stellar running backs.’
I don’t think there’s a team in the league, other than maybe, maybe Buffalo, that values the running game as much as Seattle.
The true no 1 backs in this league are all top 100 selections. But that just may be my opinion.
Houston was run heavy with Foster for quite a few years. He is the Tom Brady of running backs. 🙂
What if Seattle doesn’t go that way though….Zeke elliot?
I don’t see how Mike Davis fits the scheme better than other backs in this very deep draft. There are true feature backs who have everything over Davis.
If you are looking at Davis as a change of pace, even there, there are far better ones for that, far more explosive.
Abdullah is the expensive model in rd. 2. Corey Grant, another example is rd. 5 or so. 4.2. Once he’s in space, he can be gone. And he can return.
For all of Corey Grant’s speed, it’s all staright line. Not very effective in a ZBS.
I have to wonder why he didn’t see the field more in an offense like Auburn’s that loves speed and dynamic playmakers. That says a lot about him to me.
I’m not looking at Davis as a change of pace whatsoever. He’d make an excellent no 2 back and with him only being a jr., could really learn the ropes from Lynch.
Some of the guys in this draft might be more talented, but would get eaten alive in Seattle’s locker room. Davis IMO would fit in perfectly.
Who’s a feature back in this draft outside of Gurley, Coleman, Gordon, Ajayi, and Abdullah that will be available?
My Mock that I am sticking with for the draft.
Round 2 (63)- Dezmin Lewis WR 6-4 213lbs
Round 3 (95)- Mark Glowinski OL 6-4 307lbs
round 4 (112)-Shaq Mason C 6-2 304lbs
round 4 (130)- Stefon Diggs WR 6-0 195lbs
round 4 (134)-Leterrious Walton DT 6-5 319lbs
round 5 (167)-Shaq Riddick 6-6 DE 244lbs
round 5 (170)-Josh Robinson 5-8 RB 217lbs
round 6 (181)-Tray Walker 6-2 CB 191lbs
round 6 (209)-Christian Ringo 6-1 DT 293lbs
round 6 (214)-Nick Marshall 6-1 CB/QB 207lbs
round 7 (248)-Deshazor Everett 5-11 CB 188lbs
Likely FA acquisitions:
Chris Meyers C
Tarvaris Jackson QB
I can see the hawks picking up a veteran C like Chris Meyers to come in and compete with a rookie C like they did with Britt last year. If the rookie cant beat him out then well its a win/win and Meyers will start (a reliable starting center will start for a year and allow the rookie to be groomed for a year at most)
most intriguing prospect I like out of this draft of mine is Leterrious Walton, he is a project but shows good burst and could be an OL convert as he was recruited as a tackle then moved to DT. he’s got great length and a high ceiling. Has the frame to add bulk as well.
You will notice that a lot of these players are drafted ahead of where they’re slotted to go and that’s because a lot of the time that’s how the hawks pick’em. A lot of their draft picks are seen as reaches so that is why my mock is made up of such “madness”.
hope you all had a great weekend! and only 3 more days till the draft.
Love the 5th and 6th round picks. They would be steals if we could get them in that range.
Pretty good mix of players and where you slotted them. I disagree about meyers. I get the thinking but Britt had almost no competition so they brought in Winston. In your scenario Mason may be ready to play now plus Seattle would go to camp with three centers, LJP, Lewis, and Mason. Person all I think that woukd be more then enough for competition.
Bold choice on Lewis in the second! I think that happens but not for us….fir Baltimore but I do think he’s going to do a draft day jump that seems unprecedented
Well Winston was Britts competition in camp. I think they like LJP as a swing lineman (G,C) for depth and would prefer him as that. not saying he couldn’t win the job but I think they would prefer him as depth more so then starting C. Bringing in Meyers to compete with Mason would be a good test for him compared to Lewis and LJP as Meyers is a Pro bowl center who hasn’t missed a game since 2007.
I only suggest Dez Lewis because of the hawks draft history and that is basically “out of left field” picks.
I think the re-signing of LJP makes any additional O Line signings unlikely. They know what LJP brings and he has been a capable backup for a couple years. Meyers is going to want too much money. Any upgrade at the center position will come through the draft. TJack should be re-signed right after the draft.
Eh i dont think Meyers is going to be commanding that much on the market. he is turning 34 at the beginning of the year and his market hasnt been very strong thus far.
He might not command it market wise, but with the enlightenment of health in football today, he might have a number that if he doesn’t hit, he won’t play.
Round 2 (63)- Smith (OT)
Round 3 (95)- McBride (WR)
round 4 (112)- Hardison (DT)
round 4 (130)- Morse (G)
round 4 (134)-Mason (C)
round 5 (167)-Shaq Riddick (DE)
round 5 (170)- Montgomery (WR)
round 6 (181)- Zenner (RB)
round 6 (209)- Crisp (OT)
round 6 (214)- Irving (DT)
round 7 (248)- Daniel (CB)
I think Donovan Smith is a reach here.
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/donovan-smith
I like the McBride pick but I truly think he’s gone before 95 and that 1 reason I took him at 63. I absolutely love Hardison at 112 but we gave up a OL when we got it and think they’ll use it to replace someone there with it. No way Morse makes it to pick 130. Mason would be a steal here but I still think Cable wants Morse for his potential. I have Riddick but he’s really a reach for a project. I have to say just not a Montgomery fan at all. As far as the last 3 guys your guess really is as good as mine we really don’t know but Crisp I think doesn’t slip as far as some might think LT are rare and usually go sooner than later.
Even though we don’t pick until Friday, I can’t wait for Thursday. Does Winston go 1? Who trades for Mariotta? Does Gurley really go top 10? How many receivers go in 1st round?
Perhaps this is why Ed’s mock makes as much sense as any I have seen. Reaches, Players falling, players we have not mentioned a lot. I like the new take Ed. Well Done. I think it is so easy to go with common thought on where players will go in the draft. Clearly Seattle does not abide by our rules of value.
Rob. Jalen Collins admits to multiple marijuana incidents last year. Combined with foot issues, if he drops to 63 is he too good to pass up?
GoHawk, I think Collins is overrated. Technically poor, limited starts, nothing but a prototypical frame. He has a rd.2 price with a late round skill set.
Doesn’t that sound like a Tharold Simon. Quick what’s his psyche profile. Only JS/PC know that. I do however know that Thurmond and Brown are no longer here so what that tell you.
Steele I disagree about Collins when I watch his tape I see a ton of natural ability with 1st round talent. The failed drug tests are my concern if they reflect on his character. The drug test issues are probably why he only had 10 starts.
I think he would be — but SEA doesn’t seem to respond to players falling. They seem to know who they want going into a draft and stick to it.
I don’t see them responding too eagerly. Although they will react to the flow of the draft. Recall in 2010, they did have a trade lined up at #14, but did respond to Thomas falling. Similarly, we moved up in 2013 securing Jesse Williams who fell.
Mostly though, I think they see clumps of players and kind of pick and choose between them. Certainly these mocks by us have all been WR/OL heavy. But I don’t see any scenario where we take 4 OL prospects. I think three is a stretch. But I suspect that most of the names on these 3 and 4 OL mocks are probably in our pool of candidates.
Seattle has moved back (or halted their move back) in response to flow of the draft. Wagner (and likely Kendricks) were seen as two similar players in 2012. We moved back once, and when Kendricks was pulled off the board, we stuck with the pick and took Wagner. I’d bet real money, that if both were available, we’d have moved back a couple picks again — betting on one of those still being available.
And I’d guess that our double move back last year was based largely on the fact that there were no WRs taken between #32 and #39 (Lee). As the flow of the draft at #45 started to highlight WRs still on the board, we stuck at #45 and took Richardson. If Lee and Matthews didn’t get taken before #45, I could have seen us move back a third time. I think the Eagles move up to select Matthews kind of set the pick for us, since Tennessee was expected to take a RB in R2 (which they did after trading back).
Runs on talent, and specific players dropping, has triggered response from us on draft day. If we had Collins as one of the 16 1st round talents on our board — I suspect we would take him unless there was a better grade player relative to our current roster. It’s a lean DB draft. I fully expect we’ll take one somewhere.
Just for the heck of it I decided to go back to Fanspeak and use Matt Miller’s board for my draft. I don’t think most of the prospects I chose will be there when I chose them, but if they are and are chosen, I’ll be extremely happy.
63: R2P31
C HRONISS GRASU
OREGON
95: R3P31
G LAKEN TOMLINSON
DUKE
112: R4P13
OT DONOVAN SMITH
PENN STATE
130: R4P31
OT MITCH MORSE
MISSOURI
134: R4P35
WR TONY LIPPETT
MICHIGAN STATE
167: R5P31
OLB FRANK CLARK
MICHIGAN
170: R5P34
WR TY MONTGOMERY
STANFORD
181: R6P5
OLB SHAQUILLE RIDDICK
WEST VIRGINIA
209: R6P33
RB MALCOLM BROWN
TEXAS
214: R6P38
DT LETERRIUS WALTON
CENTRAL MICHIGAN
248: R7P31
CB TRAY WALKER
TEXAS SOUTHERN
I could see the first 2 picks, I think Smith is over rated, Mitch Morse would be over kill at this point having invested the first 3 on the OL. I also think he won’t be there at 130. I like Lippett I think he’s a very interest Split end WR and as a CB he is 6’3″ 190Ibs. with a very nice wingspan just like Pete loves. The best this is he’s a 2 fer. The problem for me is placement. I think he would in the 5th round but does he project to the middle or the end. There a lot of space between 134 and 167. Franks suffer some off field issues but not that back to be at 167. The best returner in Ty but I just don’t see the talent as a receiver. He’s no Golden Tate. Riddick is exactly where I would take a project like him. Brown will come in to compete and probably not break the ranks. Walton isn’t going to be there at 214 he’ll go much higher and as will walker I’m sure of that. These are just my opinion. Thanks for the draft.
4 OL in the first 4 picks! Maybe the true smokescreen that we have all missed is John Schnieder saying that OL is a need but they will not go overboard to solve it. Wink, wink, nod, nod. Haha, we fooled the league and used our first four picks on it. Never saw that one coming. haha.
Is this your mock, or Tom Cable’s wish list to Santa? :o) Tom would be one happy man come next week. Lord knows our OL needs a big infusion of talent and depth.
I could see the first 2 picks, I think Smith is over rated, Mitch Morse would be over kill at this point having invested the first 3 on the OL. I also think he won’t be there at 130. I like Lippett I think he’s a very interest Split end WR and as a CB he is 6’3″ 190Ibs. with a very nice wingspan just like Pete loves. The best this is he’s a 2 fer. The problem for me is placement. I think he would in the 5th round but does he project to the middle or the end. There a lot of space between 134 and 167. Franks suffer some off field issues but not that back to be at 167. The best returner in Ty but I just don’t see the talent as a receiver. He’s no Golden Tate. Riddick is exactly where I would take a project like him. Brown will come in to compete and probably not break the ranks. Walton isn’t going to be there at 214 he’ll go much higher and as will walker I’m sure of that. These are just my opinion. Thanks for the draft.
I think Lippett projects as a rd.3-4. Which is unfortunate. That is exactly where the logjam is for many of the names that I think the Hawks should target. Hard choices will have to be made.
Hi guys, sorry if this has been posted already but I really enjoy the work over at 3 sigma athlete and thought this breakdown of CBs for the Seahawks was worth a share:
http://3sigmaathlete.com/2015/04/27/the-seahawky-cornerbacks-in-the-2015-nfl-draft/
P.S. Rob – thanks for your help geeing up The Millers to get a draw with Norwich on Saturday!
My pleasure 🙂
And congrats
Thank you much. I’m very excited to get to see Watford over here (in the states) without going through, ahem, alternative internet methods. Good luck tomorrow versus Reading.
I was reading that earlier and it’s interesting to know that Burley doesn’t have the 32′ inch arm length. I’m also wondering if, like Rob pointed out a couple of months ago, Seattle starts taking corners that have 31.25 or 31 1/2 inch arms.
As the article states, these long corners are going to start costing high draft picks and Seattle’s FO is the type to flip the script once the rest of the league thinks they have them figured out.
Fresno St CB Curtis Riley looks intriguing, but no tape/footage. I thought Seattle would like BYU CB Robertson Daniel. Just a hunch.
SEA have have made a number of pre-draft/draft day trades in the last 2 years.
In 2013
Pre-draft – SEA trade R1/25 to MIN: SEA get Harvin, no picks.
R2 – SEA trade down w/BAL: SEA give R2/56, get R2/62 + R5/165 + R6/199 (-5% points for SEA)
R5 – SEA trade up w/DET: SEA give R5/165 + R6/199, get R5/137 (-4% points for SEA)
In 2014
R1 – SEA trade down w/MIN: SEA give R1/32, get R2/40 + R4/108 (-2% points for SEA)
R2 – SEA trade down w/DET: SEA give R2/40 + R5/146, get R2/45 + R4/111 + R7/227 (-1.5% points for SEA)
In 2015
Pre-draft – SEA trade R/31 to NO: SEA get Graham + R4/112
R2 – ???
Including 2015, SEA have traded their R1 pick – either for a player, for more lower picks, or for a combination of player and lower picks – in 3 consecutive drafts
In the previous 2 drafts, SEA have traded their R2 pick for more lower picks. IMO, in 2013 they had CMike targeted as “their guy” well in advance of draft day. They had already traded their R1 pick, CMike was “their guy”, and they knew they could make a modest trade down in R2 to recoup one of the picks lost to MIN and still get him. They were right
Last year, I think Dominique Easley was “their guy”. But NE beat them to the podium, so they went to the next “their guy”. Just like with CMike the previous year, SEA knew they could make a modest trade down from the end of R1 to mid R2, pick up an R4 and still get their guy. This guy might have been PRich, but it might have been some other intermediate “their guy” who as selected before SEA could get to him. In either case, SEA made a 2nd modest trade down in R2 (dropping from 40 to 45) and took PRich there.
There’s nothing to suggest they would deviate from this model in 2015. I think “their guy” this year is DGB. They know they’ll have to make a trade up to get him. If the board falls in such a way that they can do it, they will. If not, they have a next “their guy” ready to select. And if they think they can make a modest trade down from 63, improve the rest of their draft position, and still get their guy, they’ll do that.
FWIW, I don’t think SEA are willing to trade up for anyone besides DGB. I could be wrong, maybe someone unexpected drops far enough. But my suspicion (based on their past conduct) is that they have a fall-back scenario from DGB, not another move-up scenario besides DGB.
Considering that all the other (2nd tier) wide receivers and offensive line positions could be filled in the third and fourth rounds, it wouldn’t hurt the Seahawks to move down from #63. On the other hand it may not help either.
With how many good OL are avaialble in later/each round(s). picking Preston Smith or Frank Clark (63) is starting to make more sense!
63: R2P31
DE Preston Smith
Mississippi State
95: R3P31
WR Chris Conley
Georgia
112: R4P13
OG/OT Ty Sambrailo
Colorado St.
130: R4P31
WR Dez Lewis
MISSOURI
134: R4P35
OC Mark Glowinski
West Virginia
167: R5P31
RB Malcolm Brown
Texas
170: R5P34
SS Clayton Geathers
Central Florida
181: R6P5
ILB Ben Heeney
Kansas
209: R6P33
RB MALCOLM BROWN
TEXAS
214: R6P38
DT Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Southern Miss
248: R7P31
CB Justin Cox
Mississippi State
UDFA: Nick Marshall – Backup QB & CB, Laurence Gibson – Backup OT, Kristjan Sokoli – backup OG, Tye Smith – backup cb
Oops, I just noticed I accidently picked rb Brown twice…but you get the point
I’d be pretty satisfied if this draft were to play out (especially the UDFA). Wondering who you would have at pick 209 rather than Brown again. The only thing that I would change is ILB and maybe SS since we can get both positions in UDFA. I can see where you are going at for SS since Kam and Earl were injured, but ILB is not needed. I would rather go for a Edge/OLB. Plus I like the chances of Brock Coyle vs a rookie (but then again what do I know that PC and JS don’t). I also think that the Seahawks are going to do whatever is possible to keep Wagner. He literally keeps the defense together.
Maybe Davis Till if luckily he’s still available or Christian Ringo.
I picked SS to replace Jeron Johnson/ST.
Competition at ILB/ST since Farwell is gone never hurts. I like Coyle but I like this guy too.
I like it. Nice work.
This is about the time when John throws his split-finger that buckles the knees. We are all expecting the early picks to be WR and/or OL, so John is about to throw some high heat right past us as we wait on another breaking ball, all in the form of defensive draft picks? For all we know, John, Pete and Tom Cable may like ‘unknown’ guys like John Miller of Louisville, or Mark Glowinski of West Virginia, every bit as much as they like the AJ Cann’s or Ty Sambrailo’s of the world. Those ‘lesser’ guys can be had in R4/5, freeing the draft board for DT, Leo or CB, all positions where depth is badly needed, especially projecting a year ahead. For example, what if a couple of guys fall to #63 like Jalen Collins (drug suspensions in college), or Nate Orchard, potentially an ideal Leo, or Michael Bennett, the next Michael Bennett (haha, couldn’t resist). The only surprise with a John/Pete draft would be if there were no surprises, so be prepared.
I agree.
John Miller had been my sleeper OC for a long time.
I have no idea what round Ron Fields cb is expected to go. Could be next Richard Sherman.
Another curveball would be to trade away CMike and draft Ajayi…since his stock has taken a fall last couple days.
I agree that JS will throw us a curve ball, but I think it might be like what happened last year. We were all hoping and guessing WR since the group was “weak”, and we were right. We just did not expect a speedster receiver from Colorado especially since we had a burner in Harvin. I really hope they go for a OG or C this time and that they know more about him than everyone else does. I hope they have Pro Bowl Potential!
If Jalen Collins fell to #63 I would not be surprised if PCJS drafted him.
I would be. Pot is legal here and too easy to get. That however makes no difference to the NFL. Browner and Thurmond after there little pow wow are no longer on this team. Besides you don’t give a guy 4 million to sit on a bench. They’ll go later and coach them up before they develop any bad habits.
Rob, couple questions for ya here.
1.Since you had Quinton Spain in your last mock, I figured you probably watched quite the amount of tape on him. What do you think of West Virginia OT Michael Calicchio? 6’8, 328-330 lbs., big time personality. Is he worth a 7th as a ‘poor man’s Breno’ to give some depth to the RT spot and possibly the LT spot as well?
2. What do you make of Syracuse OT Sean Hickey?
3. Do you think that OG Mark Glowinski truly lacks the size for the LG position in Seattle’s offense/scheme?
1. From what limited footage I’ve seen, I’m not optimistic. Looked sluggish.
2. Looks like a center convert. Wasn’t overly impressed in the game I watched. Late rounder at best.
3. I think it’s possible They’ve used very big LG’s and Sweezy at RG. I think they’ll go for a big, ex-tackle at LG.
Heaven help me. I’ve got the unholy trinity of must-haves in this draft.
WR DGB (R2)
EDGE Frank Clark (R3)
DT David Irving (R5)
If you have nothing better to do, check out Mr. Irving. He’s one bad…hey watch your mouth!
Eh, even if you do have something better to do, watch him anyway.
Irving vs. Iowa (2013)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoI52N6MPFM
I’m especially fond of the tackle he makes right before 1:00 min mark
Nice INT/TD vs TCU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpaHc8BqPP4
Also, his pro day workout in 2 parts. He moves really well for a big guy. Not greatest strength on BP, but that only makes him more intriguing – he tore up Iowa’s OL without great upper body strength. I can only imagine how much he could improve in a pro conditioning program.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY6MtZEymuk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LonGgqvp4Rg
I really want this guy in a Seahawk uni. Have I sold my soul?
I don’t remember why josh Shirley left UW can some one help me out?