Mitch Morse could be an option for Seattle as early as pick #63
Here’s how the first round played out:
#1 Tampa Bay — Jameis Winston (QB)
#2 TRADE San Diego — Marcus Mariota (QB)
#3 Jacksonville — Dante Fowler Jr (DE)
#4 Oakland — Leonard Williams (DE)
#5 TRADE Miami — Amari Cooper (WR)
#6 New York Jets — Todd Gurley (RB)
#7 Chicago — Kevin White (WR)
#8 Atlanta — Vic Beasley (DE)
#9 New York Giants — Bud Dupree (LB)
#10 St. Louis — Brandon Scherff (T)
#11 Minnesota — Trae Waynes (CB)
#12 Cleveland — Devante Parker (WR)
#13 New Orleans — Danny Shelton (DT)
#14 Washington — Byron Jones (CB)
#15 San Francisco — Arik Armstead (DT)
#16 Houston — Melvin Gordon (RB)
#17 Tennessee — Breshad Perriman (WR)
#18 Kansas City — D.J. Humphries (T)
#19 Cleveland — Malcom Brown (DT)
#20 Philadelphia — Nelson Agholor (WR)
#21 Cincinnati — La’el Collins (T)
#22 Pittsburgh — Kevin Johnson (CB)
#23 Detroit — Eddie Goldman (DT)
#24 Arizona — Randy Gregory (LB)
#25 Carolina — Andrus Peat (T)
#26 TRADE St. Louis — Cam Erving (C)
#27 Dallas — Marcus Peters (CB)
#28 Denver — Ereck Flowers (T)
#29 Indianapolis — Benardick McKinney (LB)
#30 TRADE Oakland — Phillip Dorsett (WR)
#31 New Orleans — Shane Ray (DE)
#32 New England — Eric Rowe (CB)
There were four trades in round one. The Baltimore Ravens now own the #41 pick (from St. Louis) and the Green Bay Packers are at #35 (from Oakland).
I haven’t included trades in the second round because there’s a danger things become too convoluted. We saw a cluster of second round deals a year ago and that could be the same this year. It means the Seahawks stay at pick #63 even though I think there’s a reasonable chance they’ll try to move up. There’s a significant drop off in talent from around #48-55. The quality depth on the offensive line in the mid-to-late rounds could also encourage a move up the board.
Without trades this projection forces us to consider a scenario where a move up isn’t possible. It doesn’t stop us, however, considering some of the possible trade-up targets that might be available.
#33 Tennessee Titans — T.J. Clemmings (T, Pittsburgh)
In this mock the Titans acquired Philip Rivers and drafted Breshad Perriman. Adding a right tackle completes the revolution on offense and sets Tennessee up for a bounce back year in 2015.
#34 Tampa Bay Buccaneers — Cedric Ogbuehi (T, Texas A&M)
The Buccs could consider moving back into the first round to get a tackle. They need to protect Jameis Winston. They have enough weapons at receiver, now it’s about the O-line.
#35 Green Bay Packers — Eric Kendricks (LB, UCLA)
Just a terrific football player. Not as athletic as his brother in Philadelphia but a cornerstone prospect who will set the tone on defense.
#36 Jacksonville Jaguars — Tevin Coleman (RB, Indiana)
They don’t have a playmaker at running back. If they go defense in round one this appears likely. They have to keep building around Blake Bortles.
#37 New York Jets — Eli Harold (DE, Virginia)
Terrific football player who finishes off a formidable looking defense in New York. Could easily be a first round prospect.
#38 Washington Redskins — Jake Fisher (T, Oregon)
They have many needs. Having gone for a big athletic corner in round one, they add a big athletic tackle prospect here.
#39 Chicago Bears — Damarious Randall (S, Arizona State)
He’s being tipped to be the first safety off the board. What’s happening to Landon Collins’ stock?
#40 New York Giants — Mario Edwards Jr (DE, Florida State)
The Giants move him inside to the three technique and address a big need.
#41 Baltimore Ravens — Dorial Green-Beckham (WR, Missouri)
Having traded down from #26, the Ravens answer their need for a big, athletic receiver.
#42 Atlanta Falcons — Landon Collins (S, Alabama)
If he lasts this long the Falcons will be getting excellent value.
#43 Cleveland Browns — Denzel Perryman (LB, Miami)
Not the biggest or fastest player but he brings a high level of intensity and can start immediately.
#44 New Orleans Saints — Devin Smith (WR, Ohio State)
Having missed out on Phillip Dorsett at the end of round one, New Orleans comes back for chunk-play specialist.
#45 Minnesota Vikings — Grady Jarrett (DT, Clemson)
He flies into the backfield like a three-technique but he’s stout enough to be a nose. Really fun player to watch.
#46 San Francisco 49ers — Stephone Anthony (LB, Clemson)
They have to bring in a linebacker. This is a sweet spot for the position and a good time to address the need.
#47 Miami Dolphins — Jalen Collins (CB, LSU)
I had a hard time placing him. I’m a huge fan of his potential but a broken foot at the LSU pro-day could push him down some boards.
#48 San Diego Chargers — Ameer Abdullah (RB, Nebraska)
Imagine an offense with Mariota and Abdullah working the controls. That’d be really something.
#49 Kansas City Chiefs — Jaelen Strong (WR, Arizona State)
His tape isn’t as good as his combine display. He’s a bit overrated. KC see the value here.
#50 Buffalo Bills — Ty Sambrailo (T, Colorado State)
The Bills need to keep adding to their offensive line. Sambrailo is athletic and flexible and could play a number of spots.
#51 Houston Texans — Jordan Phillips (DT, Oklahoma)
This feels very low for a huge athletic mountain. If he lasts this long the Texans won’t believe their luck.
#52 Philadelphia Eagles — Ronald Derby (CB, Florida State)
They still have a need at the position and Derby is athletic enough to provide real value in this range.
#53 Cincinnati Bengals — Michael Bennett (DT, Ohio State)
I’m not a big fan personally but he’s the type of interior rusher the Bengals seem to like in their scheme.
#54 Detroit Lions — Donovan Smith (T, Penn State)
Massive college tackle with the skill set and size to project inside. The Lions could use him at guard or right tackle.
#55 Arizona Cardinals — T.J. Yeldon (RB, Alabama)
Never really lived up to expectations at Alabama but Yeldon is big, long and scores touchdowns.
#56 Pittsburgh Steelers — Henry Anderson (DT, Stanford)
Great length and a superb combine. He can be more than just a great run stopper at the next level.
#57 Carolina Panthers — Tyler Lockett (WR, Kansas State)
The Panthers add a return man and a productive, reliable receiver for Cam Newton.
#58 Baltimore Ravens — Preston Smith (DE, Mississippi State)
After replacing Torey Smith at #41, the Ravens go about replacing Pernell McPhee.
#59 Denver Broncos — Paul Dawson (LB, TCU)
He had a poor combine but on tape he just makes plays. The Broncos have a need at inside linebacker.
#60 Dallas Cowboys — Carl Davis (DT, Iowa)
A little overrated after the Senior Bowl, Davis’ tape is pretty average. Still, he’d provide size to the Cowboys D-line rotation.
#61 Indianapolis Colts — A.J. Cann (G, South Carolina)
The Colts add an immediate starter to their interior offensive line.
#62 Green Bay Packers — Maxx Williams (TE, Minnesota)
He just seems like a great fit. Plays tough, reliable, safe hands, slightly cocky attitude. He’d be ultra-productive playing with Aaron Rodgers.
#63 Seattle Seahawks — Mitch Morse (C, Missouri)
Possible the best fit at center for the Seahawks, they take the top O-lineman on their board.
#64 New England Patriots — Sammie Coates (WR, Auburn)
Someone is going to take a chance on Coates’ incredible upside. He needs to do something about the drops if he’s going to work with Tom Brady.
Thoughts on the Seahawks pick
I still believe we’re looking at a scenario where the Seahawks either move up in round two or take the top offensive lineman on their board at #63. With Dorial Green-Beckham taken at pick #41, it’d take a big move to get him. You’re looking at a deal that possibly involves a fourth rounder and a 2016 third rounder. Seattle hasn’t been afraid to make big trades in the past and they’ve been known to give up third round picks (Charlie Whitehurst, Percy Harvin). It’s still a costly move.
Alternatively they could move up a few spots using just a fourth rounder to target a different player. The Detroit Lions at #54 are a realistic trade partner.
So why Mitch Morse if they stay put?
It’d be a bit of a reach but so was Justin Britt a year ago. The late second round isn’t a great position to be drafting in this class. It’s another reason why they might be willing to move up.
Morse’s stock has rapidly grown over the last few weeks. Daniel Jeremiah pointed out this week that if Seattle wants him they probably have to take him at #63. He isn’t going to last until the late third round. If you want a plus athlete with similar size to Max Unger, Morse is your guy. You let him compete with Patrick Lewis and Lemuel Jeanpierre, just as Britt competed with Eric Winston a year ago.
Yes it’s a deep class for centers but do any fit Seattle better than Morse? He’s tough as nails, strong and athletic. He’s graded in the third round but certainly isn’t going to last until Seattle’s pick. You might suggest moving down before drafting him. I’m not sure you can risk it. Washington at #69 need a center and Scot McCloughan is going to be trying to rebuild that roster to match Seattle’s.
In this range you’re really just taking the player you like the most. Morse has a shot to start for a long time, filling one of the biggest holes on the roster at a cheap cost. His relationship with Britt probably helps and retains some familiarity on a changing offensive line.
The alternative pick I considered was Florida State’s Tre Jackson. Tom Cable went to the Florida State pro-day. He could’ve been watching Josue Matias. However, the Seahawks love size at left guard. Robert Gallery, James Carpenter, Alvin Bailey. All big guys with tackle experience. It’s hard to imagine they’ll draft a 300lbs-er for the position. Jackson is 6-4 and 330lbs. You’re looking at a really solid pure guard who just needs a little guidance. He’s an immediate starter.
This is an interesting read on Morse, from Bob McGinn’s anonymous scouting sources:
“Center is a perfect position,” one scout said. “He kind of grows on me. He’s not a naturally big guy so he’s going to get torqued a little bit. He’s got a degree of toughness about him that shows in his play.” Paced centers on the bench press (36 reps) and the vertical jump (31), and scored 29 on the Wonderlic. Short arms (32¼) almost force him inside. “He’s my sleeper,” another scout said. “This guy is one tough sucker. You talk about toughness and tenacity. You grade him and he just blocks his guy. Their left tackle last year (Justin Britt) went to Seattle and started, and there’s no comparison between the two. His feet are good enough.”
Morse gets the nod this week. We’ll do one more final mock next Wednesday.
I can live with Morse as our first pick. I’m a meat and potato guy and this is a meat and potato pick.
Looking at your 2nd round they may be interested in a small trade up for Henry Anderson or Jordan Philips.
Still, a very good start 🙂
Yeah, I figure we’ve used our draft capital on playmakers (Harvin & Graham) and our cap capital on defense and soon-to-be- 100 mil quarterback….we have 2 glaring holes at center and guard….fill the holes with the guys you like best in this scenario, ie Morse.
BUT If Jalen Collins does fall he’d be an interesting trade up option that we haven’t talked about with the focus being in a WR. I know the Hawks usually go DB later….but Collins could start the year on the PUP because we have enough depth and then learn the position the hawk way….cornerback is an expensive position so if Collins can step in year 2 and be a stud we could cut Cary Williams and save 6 mil that we could put towards keeping Bruce Irvin!
Hey Rob or somebody- how about a list of teams in the high 40s and 50s that don’t have many picks this year? That might help us narrow down potential trade up partners and thus certain prospects that might be within our trade up range!
Wow Ben2!! Great minds think alike!! I literally just posted the same thing on Jalen! Trippy!
Ben and Ben2, I think Jalen Collins has serious problems with his game. He looked bad before his injury. Film shows him being very technically flawed. He has a short history of starts, is raw. All he offers is a frame. If you overdraft him, he is development for two seasons and may not even be starting material after that. I think he is that flawed.
I posted this in another thread, few candidates there.
Nathan says:
April 21, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Teams with the least picks.
6 – Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions, Miami Dolphins, New York Jets, St. Louis Rams, San Diego Chargers
Any chance we nab 48 from san diego?
Reply
Nathan says:
April 21, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Jets 37
Maimi 47
Lions 54
Bears 39
San Diego 48
Bills have no first rounder, and the rams won’t trade with us.
How about Miami as a trade target, they’re going to need some late round talent on their books in the next couple of year, to offset Suh’s contract.
Thanks Nathan!
Detroit has pick 54, and is missing 2 mid rounders from Ngata trade, if we move up I bet it is with them. Plus good relationship between our front offices.
Still has us picking after Philly and Kansas city though. sides who would possibly pick receivers that we’re after.
I’d be happy because it would signify that Seattle got “their” guy that filled a need on the line. Whichever direction Schneider and Carroll decide to go I believe that we’ll be fine. I’m not totally sold that we’ll be picking at #63. I think our FO is going to surprise us with their first pick just like they do every year.
With that being said, I wouldn’t mind Daniel Hunter at #63. I’m LSU biased since my family is from their but I bleed Blue and Green. And here’s another thought, if Jalen Collins does drop, do we move up to nab him and stash him for a year ala Walter Thurmond? He could be a very valuable commodity to this secondary down the road.
Any chance on Devin Funchess? There is a rumor he is one of the pre-draft visitor at VMAC
He had a west coast tour but it was never noted which teams he actually visited.
I’ve watched tape of Funchess and just don’t see much. He’s tall but doesn’t look fast. He’s not aggressive or elusive. I think he’d struggle to make the team, much less add anything to the passing game. I’d much rather see us pick up Dres Anderson or Dezmin Lewis as taller WR options.
Funchess is problematic for sure. I can’t easily dismiss him even so. Let’s say he is taken and he falls short of the hype.
What is the worst case scenario? He is an okay move tight end hybrid who can still be a mismatch nightmare against smaller defenders. He can run a 4.5 40, and his 6.98 3 cone suggests he has some quickness. He can still fill the tall target role, which would be nice to fill with a star, but a contributor would still do.
From what I’ve read about him and seen of him, I think his biggest impediment to success is his lack of fire. I don’t see an athlete who loves to play the game. I see someone maneuvering for as big a pay day as possible.
That in and of itself doesn’t mean he won’t be successful. But it sure won’t help. I just don’t see a Seahawk in Funchess.
As an outside-the-box option, I think the Seahawks would consider Shaq Thompson if he falls to #63. It’s a risk because he’s a luxury pick and it’s still not clear what position he ends up at in the pros, but he has so much talent and could take over in a year or two at OLB, or backup Kam at SS and play in big nickel packages, or even end up at RB and KR…and I have to think this staff would look forward to the chance to mold him into the player he could become (like with Bruce converting to LB or Sweezy to G). And if the board falls so that there’s no good value at WR and if they’re comfortable waiting a couple rounds on OL to grab an similarly-talented guy in the 4th, they may be looking for best upside available at some unpredictable position.
I agree that Shaq is probably high regarded by the Hawks. They love athletes like him.
I would’ve included Thompson as a wildcard, but he ran a 4.64 at 228lbs. K.J. Wright ran a 4.75 but he weighed 246lbs at his combine. So Wright is .11 slower but he’s also carrying an extra 20lbs.
I’m just not sure Thompson is athletic enough at that size. And he had a really tendency to coast in games at times (admittedly, offset with some real blasts of playmaking brilliance).
And KJ went in the 4th round not the 2nd
A Khaseen Greene kindia guy. His stats were out of this world good but he disappeared because he was much slower than people thought.
Maybe he should be playing safety instead of linebacker.
After today’s mock & the DGB POST, I imagined how id feel if they took Morse – it’d be a warm, safe feeling but not one of redhot excitement. So here is a thought, my top 10 reasons to go get DGB:
1 He could be great
2 He fits our offensive philosophy
3 He creates mismatches
4 The negatives are also a positive, he wouldn’t be available if he was squeaky clean
5. There are no certainties, but he has a better shot to be a #1 WR than anyone post R1
6 JSPS tenure has failed to yield a #1 WR via trade or draft but need to keep taking chances
7 It’s a gamble that is good value looking forward too, SEA will find it hard to have enough capital to acquire a #1 WR post-Wilson’s contract
8 The cost to trade up and acquire DGB if he turns into a #1 will be laughable
9 O-line is available later in the draft and the drop-off in talent is negligible
10 It could be the final piece to make the offense as scary as the defense
Those are some good points! We get a lottery ticket on a #1 WR.
I still see Tyler Lockett as a great fit as well… DGB isn’t a pr/or…
But if we land DGB, then we will scare people on offense, no doubt!!!
If they can get at DGB I think they really consider it. Tony Pauline’s report this week backs up that thinking.
Rob. You’re posting great narratives. I’m in your movie. DGB or bust for me.
Ukhawk, I’m in full agreement. I’ve read this debate from afar the last two months and you captured many of my thoughts. This scenario is a perfect blend of high-end player, need, potential reward, and ability to make it happen. Critical is our ability to spend the picks necessary to make a move, and yet still have the picks to address our other needs. That luxury just won’t be there in most drafts. And as much as trading a future asset isn’t usually a good idea, I really couldn’t fault them if they decided sacrificing a future 3rd would do it, in light of regaining that 3rd with a Maxwell comp pick.
That’s a great point there sdcoug, with the big contract that Maxwell got, he will definitely be a 3rd round comp pick next year… As we expect to be the champs or close, then our traded pick would only be a few higher up…thus we don’t really ‘lose’ a 3rd rounder, we just shift it into a #1 WR, we hope!
Rob it makes a lot of sense and a realistic option but I just don’t see us taking a guy like Morse with our first pick as there is so much OL depth in this draft and C/G is such a low value position. I am not sure Morse even beats out Lewis as a day 1 starter.
If we go OL and D Smith is gone I prefer Laken Tomlinson or Tre Jackson to start at LG or Grassu at Center. All 3 would at least give us a Day 1 starter with our first pick.
This Mock really hi lights the need to trade up in Rd 2 IMO.
If you are going OL.. swing for the fences and draft Ali Marpet. C/G and has upside. I disagree about guard being a low value pick…. think about when they had Hutchinson at LG… his value to the rushing attack was immense.
If a guard or center or any other player is highly ranked by Seattle, and available at #63, you take them without hesitation.
I’m personally coming around to a WR or TE being selected in the second for Seattle, but I have very little faith the pick with be DGB. I would actually be very disappointed, because I feel it would have been a completely wasted pick short/medium term. More immediate needs could be addressed. Heck, if you can draft a 5-7 year starting LG, sign me up
Hi Charlie I like Marpet too but he is definitely a boom or bust guy. Not sure that make sense with our 1st pick but maybe.
As for Guard being a high value pick I completely disagree. How many Guards are every drafted in the 1st round. If they are they are potential pro-bowlers usually. It is just easier to find good mid round guards. As for Steve Hutchinson. You can’t compare a guy like Marpet or any of the guards in this draft to him. He was a 2 time All American at Michigan before coming out and a true can’t miss prospect. He was not a Guard from D3 Hobbart who had good combine #s lets get real.
I couldn’t agree more Trevor. Hutchinson was a generational guard prospect just like Andrew Luck was a generational QB prospect. Each was considered the best prospect at their position in a decade. Those types of players are indeed rare.
I think it is wiser to draft an experienced center to play center. Marpet will be a good guard. Has anyone explored combo center and long snapper duty? Saves a little money and adds a position to the starting 53.
Teams have migrated to a 250 lb long snapper because of the need to get the man down field in coverage.
A TE will definitely not be chosen by the Hawks in round 2
… or in this draft at all.
Harold Spears – PUDFA.
Why is Marpet any more appealing than Morse?
Marpet has the athleticism and foot speed to block down field along with the power to be a mauler and anchor on the inside. This is a Pro Bowl combination. Usually you get one of the other.
How do we know this? He played for Hobart. With respect to Marpet — he might be all of the things you say. But he’s an unknown quantity who performed well at the combine. And for me he’s a little overrated because his story has received such a lot of publicity.
Finally someone says it. Thank you Rob. He is a little overrated. I see the appeal for sure though.
I can think of a few reasons.
Physical dimensions:
Marpet is 2 inches shorter than Morse. Aside from lower center of mass, it’s also easier for Wilson to see over. Carries his weight very well.
His length is far superior despite the height disadvantage. Over an inch in arm length and 4″ in wingspan. In terms of versatility, Marpet has a stronger potential to add relief at OT.
Speed. Marpet was significantly faster than Morse. Not only in long speed, but far quicker in his 10 yd split. His 3 cone was also significantly better. Much better change of direction skills. Important for a ZBS OG and OT. Less so for OC.
Marpet is kind of unique, in that he should come into the league with more to prove as a D3 guy. And I think the Senior Bowl brought that chip on the shoulder attitude out. Marpet’s value will likely be somewhat depressed due to competition level concerns. So from a value standpoint, you could easily be getting a better player than draft position as a result.
However, even if I were to concede the competition concerns as real, I would even be more bullish on Marpet. Considering how quickly he adapted to a huge leap in competition level in Mobile, I’d expect him to perform even that much better with pro level development. Were he so handicapped by his college experience — for him to perform that well despite the disadvantage should indicate an even greater ceiling than he may have given a glimpse to.
I don’t by any means think Morse is necessarily unworthy of being picked at #63. But I do think that if it came down to Marpet or Morse, I’d side with Marpet every time. I don’t have inside insight to how these two matched up in the interview process — so I can’t know if either is ‘our kind of guy’. From the outside though, I think there are numerous advantages that Marpet enjoys relative to Morse.
Just one guy’s opinion but ESPN’s Louis Riddick said via twitter:
He’ll move inside at #NFL level, but Mizzou OL Mitch Morse is a better tackle than plenty slugs that have started games at OT in the league. –@LRiddickESPN
Marpet’s small school experience does not cause me any concern. He performed well at the Senior Bowl against Power 5 conference guys. If the level of college competition was a significant criteria then Jerry Rice would have never been drafted out of Mississippi Valley State. What should we say about Dorial Green-Beckham who failed at Missouri and hasn’t played since he was a Sophomore?
DGB didn’t fail at Mizzou he got kicked off the team. The Jerry Rice one is a bit of cherry picking, if you want examples of small school guys and the Seahawks history:
Konz, kent state
Legree, Appalachian state
Toomer, Idaho
MIchael Bowie, Northeastern State (OK)
Then the positive:
Wagner, Turbin, Lane, plus some guys like Staten and Smith who have yet to do anything….The rest of the team as far as draft picks is by far and away guys from big schools or at least big programs.
Level of competition does matter and yes Rice was/is a generational talent who worked harder then basically anyone before or after him has.
As for the Oline the seahawks have regardless of anything else thus far shown a preference to both draft and play players from power five conferences with notable exception to Garret Scott out of Marshall…another athletic freak who was drafted in the 6th round…..
Wagner and Turbin both played at Utah State. May not be a powerhouse program but is still in the top half of the mountain west… the top mid-major conference, and one that has sent multiple teams to BCS bowls (where the have had a lot of success against the big boys). I understand what you are saying, but you can’t quite compare USU with Hobart…and no – I’m not a USU guy.
Peter – you didn’t compare Hobart with USU… I was responding to the “small school” comment. Sorry man…didn’t quite come out right
Tj- no worries…i was trying to say in the positives there were a few exceptions with small school success but its a little less then 50/50.
I am intrigued by Marpet, but if the choice is Marpet or Morse, I would go with Morse. He is just a solid option, likely immediate fit, I see very little potential downside.
If it would be possible to grab them both, that would be ideal. Before the boards shot up in recent days, some of my mocks featured this exact scenario.
Morse started his college career at C before moving outside to OT. He was Britt’s teammate for 3 years at Mizzou. As Rob said, he’s tough as nails, fairly athletic (SPARQ-wise) and very strong (36 reps on BP). But if SEA wants him, they’ll probably need to take him at 63.
Depending on where he ends up going (anywhere from R3-R4), the best OL value in the draft is Glowinski. Tied for 3rd highest SPARQ, terrific run game mauler with a nasty attitude. Draft this guy at 112 and lock down the LG position for the next 10 years.
I think Tomlinson is just too average for Seattle. Jackson has more upside which is why I considered him. Morse is ultra tough and athletic and I think that will appeal more than anything. If they’re going to go for their favorite OL at #63 it could easily be Morse.
I have to agree here. In fact, if I’m looking at Tomlinson or Shaq Mason — I think I would even prefer Mason straight up even if he were a 2 round reach.
While I don’t necessarily think we’ll take 3 OL, if we were to somehow come out of this draft with Marpet, Morse and Mason — I would be absolutely thrilled. Any one (or all three) of these guys could be starter quality players almost on day 1. I’d consider the OL entirely fixed with that group. I’d be similarly excited with a Marpet, Glowinski, Mason trio.
If we weren’t satisfied with the WR options, I would just as soon we just put the finishing touches on the OL group for the next few years. Freeing up drafts in 2016/17 to focus on other positions.
Still think your missing out on the Glowinski train…very good tape out there of him and all the measurable.
?? I’ve been impressed with Glow since before the combine. Although at that time, I considered him a late 6th gem. I didn’t see his combine #s on tape, but admittedly, I find it difficult to really see that kind of measurables at that position. He was clearly agile and had good movement. Tape wise, I saw a guy worth drafting and pre combine, the kind of name nobody would know when the Seahawks made that call.
“This Mock really hi lights the need to trade up in Rd 2 IMO.” Trevor
I completely agree. Trading up to #54 with Detroit makes a lot of sense. They lack picks in rounds 4 and 5, so recouping a 4th for moving down 9 spots has to be inviting for them. I’d love to see us get Lockett at that spot, but would be happy with either Carl Davis or Henry Anderson maybe even Preston Smith. The big trade up for either DGB, Collins or Phillips would be exciting, but it might be a little too much to give up. I’d be cool with it, but it’s not the type of big draft day trade we’ve ever made before.
If Morse is the guy we really want at #63 I would have no problem with it. The depth at OL in this draft makes this seem like a bit of a reach for need. Guess I’d like to see a more exciting pick, but I can’t argue with a day 1 starter with versatility along the OL. Solid pick.
While I agree that it is a deep OL draft – we need a center with Max gone. Maybe Patrick Lewis is okay, but if you think you have a starting center available at 63 you almost have to take him.
I have no idea who the best center is for Seattle – but it is a need.
How is it a need? Ive seen all off season this desire for a center but I never once saw it in games where Lewis’ play significantly changed the paradigm of the Seahawks offense. I know all about the week 6 stat about Unger and the run game being a yard better, taken way out of context as that stat was first revealed at week nine so there is no viable way to extrapolate data from that not dissimilar to saying a QB is on pace to throw for 100 td’s after week one.
It seems to me teams around the league are increasingly willing to start a. Rookies at center and b. pick centers at much lower rounds.
Plus it seems fairly like a gamble to believe that say Grasu or any center for that matter will be significantly better then Lewis without having seen their game in the pro’s as well as assuming that every available center doesn’t get drafted before Seattle’s pick in any round and that a 5th round center per example is better then a guy that started already multiple games.
I guess my thought process could be applied to any positional group but with a center there is one person that you improving with another single player. A positional group like WR has multiple spots allowing multiple ways to improve.
In all honesty I would love to hear from anyone as to why Center is a need…not just CC who I replied to but didn’t mean to single out
It’s all in how you define need.
Was there a drop off in SEA’s offensive performance with Unger out? Yes, some. Did they lose any games because of that drop off? I don’t think so.
If SEA didn’t lose any games because they had Lewis at C vs Unger, how much of a need is C?
Enough of a need to add competition to the group, but not necessarily in R2 generally speaking, and not in R2 of this particular draft so deep in the position.
Competition sure. If they can find a great player or Lewis becomes that I’m interested but I think last year worries about Britt were greater then Lewis and there’s always concerns about Okungs health and Carp’s general play positions that more acutely need improvements.
I was addressing SEA’s “need” for a C. OT and OG are different situations.
Let’s also keep in mind that Chris Myers is still an option.
Chawk-
In your opinion of the three spots I referenced which do you think is a greater need?
For me projecting a LG is a greater need then Center. Then attempting to find someone to effectively back up Okung/ be his replacement for cap concerns in the future and to be prepared for injury (persistent or at least consistent.) I’m a big fan of Bailey but weight comments as well as utilizing him strictly as a backup and getting starters back out on the field instead of playing him as well as paying bowie over him suggest to me he is a career utility player.
Marpet as LG purely with possible hopes of playing other positions is fine, but rather it be that he comes in for LG and if someone is injured their back up plays and the line stays more consistent. Personally and this is the old eye ball test here so its not grounded in anything but my gut…I hate it when they used to have an outage, then move someone on the line, then replace that moved person….that to me is a recipe for crappy oline play regardless of how versatile that person is.
I agree with your order of priorities for OL – LG first, then a LT prospect, then C.
No worries Peter – the way I look at it is that they wouldn’t have been courting Stephen W if they thought they were okay at C. Not sure if we need a C at 63, but somewhere you draft one. My point being that IF you think you have a starter C at 63 it makes sense to draft him.Basically, you have JLP who is back after an injury payout and Lewis. To me, C is a need because you need depth and no way to know how healthy JLP is.
But perhaps the FO views it as a backup position/ competition with Lewis as the starter, that would allow you to look at much later rounds. I like Grasu quite a bit think he can be had in third. I do wonder if Seattle is looking at Fischer and thinks he may fall for whatever reason as a LG/LT after they attended Oregon’s pro day.
CHAWK, I agree completely about Glowinski. I have him at no. 94. He could possibly be the LT of the future too. Has the length for it and is a former tackle.
He’s certainly athletic enough. So is Sambrailo, although Glowinski already has enough upper body strength. Both need to develop more strength in their legs.
He’s a bit on the shorter side for tackle – at least LT. Compare his wingspan of 78.75″ to say Rob Crisp (82.5″) or Laurence Gibson (85.88″). But he’s longer than Morse (76.75″). BTW, I think Morse and Britt have the same wingspan. But he certainly could play RT if SEA was of a mind to move Britt inside.
Very possible that Lewis is viewed as the starter, I’m looking at it as possible starters/competition and depth.
We are a week out I’m gonna call my shot and say the Seahawks take Sammie Coates @ 63. Get him on the Jugs machine and he will be fine.
I feel like route running can be taught and improved….hands maybe a bit but it just seems like some guys are natural hands catchers – just pluck that ball! Is that teachable? I’m not so sure…..
I think it is, when i was younger i watched a feature on the baseball player Ozzie Smith and he said he got so good by throwing a ball wghen he was in bed, and it helped him improve his hand-eye coordination immensley, it helped me, something similar could be taught to coates. Id prefer Coates over Morse in Round 2.
A tennis ball at the wall AND catching it*
Nowadays guys are taught they have to catch only with their hands, and it used to be taught ‘just don’t let the ball hit the ground.’
I feel the same way about Coates as Funchess. Both risky investments, but even in a worst case scenario, both guys would still contribute —-something.
There is no doubt Coates has game breaking speed. He’s a good run blocker. He seems to be making an honest effort at improving his hands. Let’s say he never learns it and drops balls all over the place. Then he is Kearse, with more speed. Maybe Coates can be a returner, if he can catch punts and kickoffs.
I’m seeing Ali get so much hype, it feels we could only get one or the other, with morse having less upside. Agree with above comment, but also makes me consider trading a 4th and a player to get both.
I think picking Morse will not get the fans excited on draft night but once they see him play they’ll love him. Rob said it perfectly he’s tough as nails and just seems like the perfect addition to a Tom Cable coached OL. Plus he played all over Missouri’s OL during his time there so you know the Hawks love the fact that he’s versatile.
There are at least three possible scenarios in play at 63.
1) Trade up if they see a guy in what they’ve defined as striking range that provides clear value. (The Jesse Williams scenario)
2) Stand pat if the picks ahead of them don’t go their way and there is a guy who is clearly rated higher than the others on their board. (The Justin Britt scenario)
3) Trade down if there are a couple guys they like equally and would be fine with either option. (The 2012 Wagner & Kendricks scenario)
I’m going to put on my JS do-what-they-don’t-expect hat and say they trade up for a defensive player who is still there. In this mock maybe Michael Bennett.
I would agree with that scenario. A trade up for a D linemen seems more likely than for a position like WR that is very deep. Carl Davis, Bennett or Jordan Phillips would do.
I’m kinda a fan of Grady Jarrett for 3-tech….Rob has him going pretty early. I can see him sliding a bit past where Rob has him and I’d be fine with a trade up for him in that case.
I think an ideal pick at #63 would be a player who could start at LG and be a candidate to replace Okung at LT. I don’t think we are going to re-sign Okung. Sambrallo is one we’ve talked about. He’s gone in this mock but could be an option on draft day. Maybe Donovan Smith can fit that same role? Also gone here. Who are some players with tackle ability that are still on board here?
Morse does not fit that role I described, right? He would probably be a center only?
You mean like Alvin Bailey? Same thing with the center position. I think we may be underestimating how much the team likes Lewis at center. The more I think about it the more I feel it’s a certainty that they don’t go Oline until the fourth at the earliest. It’s got to be a WR or an impact defender such as Jarrett, Phillips, or Shaq Thompson.
Yes, Bailey fits that description, but I think Hawks are looking for a higher ceiling player. One who could be long-term solution at LT. I would not feel great about heading into 2016 with Bailey as starting LT. And I think the team likes him as the versatile back up to multiple positions, not the starter.
@williambryan, my thoughts exactly, i dont think we trade Unger if they didnt see something in Lewis. To me, LG, or a T prospect would be first priority on the line. Add to that the oline and wr depth is so much deeper then defensive talent, it creates an interesting scenario, i will not be happy with morse in round two, but if hes around in round 4, id be me comfortable taking him there. Max Unger was a 2nd round C, Mitch Morse is no Max Unger
They had no problem trading Unger because despite him being a pro bowl C, SEA didn’t lose any games without him in the line up.
How about a trade up for Fisher? Could be LG this year and take over for Okung next year and create a lot of cap savings….but like with DGB it would be a pretty significant trade up
I was wondering that as well. Plus I may not be listening as it were but whereas Kyle Long had a ton of movement just prior to the draft it seems that Fischer is one of those fairly discussed prospects relative to how highly I see him mocked. (in certain places)
I think that is the ideal pick. And it makes Ogbuehi a prospect to watch/consider.
Although I also think that kind of OT still continues to be overdrafted. Really, if you’re looking to get a 35″ arms OT prospect, then you have a couple sane options. You get a pick before the late teens overall, or you take your chances on a late day 3 project and try to develop him. It doesn’t appear there are many really good mid round options year to year.
Occasionally, you get a Terron Armstead project who looks like he may now be developing into a player after 2 years. But that was a 3rd round pick who pretty much has developed as a late day 3 guy would hope to be. So it happens, but it’s typically rare. Generally, I see poor value in this range for OT projects. And that is difficult to swallow, when there are plenty of other positions where you can get quality starters early and reliably in this 60-120 overall range.
But in some regards isn’t that the whole construct about Marpet. Similar situations…extremely athletic, minimal experience against higher division/caliber players. I guess my concern with Marpet if people are talking needs comes back to an Armstead. High, high, high ceiling but will they ever reach it and if so how long will that process take? And is the team better off getting a Morse let’s say who is probably tapped out (I don’t know) but allows the team to plug and play now.
Seattle’s oline philosophy is so hard to rate because of this. Almost no upside players with exception to Sweezy who has now gone on to improve every year after making the switch in the pros. I think Britt if he balances out his overall game could be good for quite some time but a former LT playing in the SEC going into the right tackle spot I dont’ really see as a move you are making based on potential
Matt, I think Morse is versatile, can play G,C and T. He looked solid playing LT in the tapes I watched.
Drafting a tackle to start at center as a rookie seems about as risky as drafting a more talented OL from a DIII school. Not against Morse, not for Marpet… will root for either/both if they become Seahawks.
We’ve heard over and over again that Schneider doesn’t like to “fight the board.” It seems that taking an OL like Morse is fighting the board at #63, unlike last year when the reached for Britt due to the lack of OL depth and lack of a 3rd round pick, too.
More is a legit R2-3 prospect based on all the noise coming out of the league. Look at what the anonymous scout told Bob McGinn, or Daniel Jeremiah’s remarks.
I think there are 2 areas of focus in this year’s Seahawk draft: (1) get more weapons for Wilson, and (2) try to get some less-expensive draftees to replace some more-expensive veterans who are approaching the ends of their contracts.
The trade for Graham has certainly addressed area #1. And, more weapons can be gathered either by moving up in the draft or by using later picks.
Regarding area #2. I see Okung’s looming 2016 free agency as well as Mebane’s as opportunities where we could draft potential replacements this year and then give them a year to compete. I know there are other players on the depth charts who might have the skills to step in. But, at #63, is there an OL who can start this year at G and then move to LT as a replacement for Okung? Similarly, is there a DT who can be groomed as a potentail replacement for Mebane?
Totally agree with points about Okung and Mebane replacements–looking now and question is whether viable options are there at #63.
That is why I think Donovan Smith falls to 63 he would be a great pick as he has the size, length and physical skills to be a Tackle.
I’m a big Smith fan. I won’t be butthurt if Morse is the pick at 63 but I’d rather have Smith. I think he has the potential to be special. It’s possible in two seasons we could have all Penn State bokkends on the OL in Smith and Gilliam.
This is just what I’ve heard, so please don’t read too much into it and just take it for what it’s worth, but I’ve heard that Donovan Smith has no ‘fire in his belly,’ bad practice habits, and doesn’t like to compete.
I’ve heard some of that stuff to and, though I don’t know for sure either, I have the impression it’s probably overblown somewhat. He dominated at the senior bowl which is where he first really caught my eye. He has a twitchy lightness on his feet for such a huge man that is marginally reminiscent of Walter Jones. To my eyes he has a chance to be a genuinely elite LT, unlike Okung, and finding something like that in the second round would be as big a jackpot as finding Kam and Sherm in the fifth.
My vote is if we can’t get DGB , pick offensive line and fix that line for the next four years. With two positions open this year and left tackle a need next year, the Seahawks need to find their players for the next four years. Maybe those guys are on the team, or maybe they are drafted, they just need some good offensive linemen. While some of the Seahawks needs are hard to fill – there is no reason why they can’t draft 2-3 excellent offensive linemen this year.
Rob – question about your selection of Devin Smith to New Orleans. Do you think Smith is the same type of player as Brandin Cooks whom they drafted last year?
I think Smith is a downfield threat, chunk play specialist. Cooks better on the short to intermediate stuff (and YAC). I think they are similar in stature but ultimately different. Lot of talk they like Dorsett at #31. If they’re shopping in that market they could target Smith as an alternative.
Rob, I have heard rumors about Devin Smith dropping recently. Any validity to this?
I’ve not seen those rumors to be fair. I think he goes mid to late second.
I would love to see Seattle get DGB, most likely by trading up. If not, I personally think their are other OL I would rather take than Morse at 63. At 63 A Cann is a good fit if he’s around as is Jake Fisher. Again if he is around. I think center should be a fairly easy fix in round 4. Another interesting prospect that has been discussed on the boards is Funchess. I’m not sold on him as a 2nd rounder although his size and bulk would cause problems for smaller dbs. I’m just not sold on his separation right of the line. Other interesting prospects would surely be Washington LB Shaq Thompson. A luxury pick as I’ve seen posted.
I can also see Seattle looking at WR’s Ty Montgomery as discussed as well as Stephen Diggs of Maryland and even Steven Hill from Arizona. The first two as special teams and Golden Tate types and Hill as a tall target if it’s not a dressed earlier.
I think this draft will be very interesting and have plenty of trades. Seattle can easily take a step forward again in its division by having a great draft. We may not see immediate returns for 3 to 4 years but leading the league in rushing again and having an extra passing dimension would be tell tale signs.
Rob have you heard anything special about Clayton Geathers a safety from Central Florida. 6’1 210.
I have not Clayton — sorry.
Geathers is my favorite safety prospect in this draft. Ive watched minimal amounts of his tape but he just lays it out on the field like a member of the LOB to me. I know there are flashier or more preferred ball hawking players out there but sometimes I just want to see a SS lay the wood and have mostly good tackle technique and awareness. Which I saw I Geathers
I like the athlete Damarious Randall, if not so much the actual FS Randall. Certainly not enough to make him SEA’s first pick.
As far as on field performance vs value, Jaquiski Tartt is it for me.
I like tart quite a bit. Randall I haven’t even pretended to focus on because IMO he will be drafted near Seattle’s first pick and while planning is always important I don’t think he’s that far above later prospects and as a hedge against the future it would be a wasted pick to me…
Minneaota S Cedric Thompson. Available late, great back-story, plays with tremendous speed, communicates very well, can line up a defense, workout warrior/fiend, and a SPARQ demon.
Clayton, both Ty Montgomery and Stefon Diggs would be huge reaches at the top of the draft. Montgomery is likely rd. 4-5, Diggs rd. 5.
Diggs doesn’t strike me as special in any way. Just one of dozens of decent slot receivers. Doesn’t do anything Doug Baldwin doesn’t already do.
Rob – very credible mock.
Seeing DGB go to BAL is right in the range that I see him going. That is why I don’t see SEA trading up to get him. Boom or Bust – but the Ravens need to do something to affect getting back to the big show and they all watched what Chris Matthews did against NE in the SB. With Browner moving on, NE doesn’t have the DBs and DGB could make a big difference. I think SEA is going to avoid the taller WR in this draft and play it out with Matthews – and focus on a returning WR and a deep threat.
I like the Morse pick – I think it would help Britt to have Morse there too. Morse had to go against top competition – that is why I like him over Ty or Ali at 63.
If we go C at 63 – what does everyone think we go at 95? I’m thinking we could look at DL at 95 and then take Ty Montgomery in the 4th.
It makes sense that the Ravens would target DGB. The question is, will they accept the off field red flag, after declaring that they would avoid such types?
If the Ravens take DGB, fine. They also seem to love Dezmin Lewis. So the Hawks can take Lewis in rd. 4.
From Feb 25th (baltimoreravens.com)
The Ravens will specifically shy away from drafting prospects or adding free agents who have any history of committing domestic violence.
“The one area we will definitely take a hard look – and it will be tough for us to bring a player to Baltimore – is someone who has domestic abuse in their background,” Newsome said at the season-review press conference Tuesday.
“We will have good information, but just as our boss [Owner Steve Bisciotti] has already said, someone that has domestic abuse in their background, it’s going to be tough for them to be considered a Raven,” Newsome said.
Wouldn’t expect the Ravens to say anything different.
And I’m sure they’ll have a nice quote if/when they draft DGB or anyone else with a similar background to his.
I’d hate to write that press release…on the other hand, could make for some great cartoons.
Rob are you just screwing with me or what? I finally talk to myself in to drafting Tyler Lockett and in this article he gone at 57.
Strengths Good play speed. Has twitch at top of his routes and gets separation for quarterbacks to make open throws. His father was a standout wide receiver at Kansas State and played in the NFL. Intelligent player on field who has clearly learned from his father. Nuanced route runner with ability to sell. Will vary route speed and is proficient with double moves. Scouts say his personal character and football character are top-notch. Has a knack for making explosive plays as a receiver and return man. Steps up his game when matched up against top competition across from him. Likes to block
Strengths Good play speed. Has twitch at top of his routes and gets separation for quarterbacks to make open throws. His father was a standout wide receiver at Kansas State and played in the NFL. Intelligent player on field who has clearly learned from his father. Nuanced route runner with ability to sell. Will vary route speed and is proficient with double moves. Scouts say his personal character and football character are top-notch. Has a knack for making explosive plays as a receiver and return man. Steps up his game when matched up against top competition across from him. Likes to block
To me he’s much more than just a returner.
I had Mitch Morse for my center at pick 95 but I can see what your saying. With the run on receivers early there will start to be a run on OL starting after the 2nd. I had already decided that 4 OL for Cable this year was in the cards. We lost Scott (medical), Schilling (retired). Ungar (traded), and Carpenter (FA) its time to restock the line with 2 starters and 2 depth and get back on track. I think Cable still likes the big LG and I think Jarvis Harrison at 130 would fit at LG as a starter.
Strengths Burly lower body made for the guard position. High school basketball player who displays rare foot quickness for a man his size. Glides to second level using proper angles. Utilizes power step to shut down inside moves. Has feet and balance to mirror in pass pro pre- and post-contact. Maintains good posture at punch point. Comfortable finding and hitting targets in space. Technically sound in run game and pass pro. Has filled in at tackle and might have swing potential in a pinch.
You want a LG with LT experience here he is. I listen to what scouts say about his motivation but the game film tells me a completely different story of just how good he really is.
Maybe this is the year we go OL and we break the Bitinio curse.
Mad – this is the best part of reading this blog – we fall in love with guys that Rob points out and want them to be drafted – then some other team takes them! I was so bummed last year when guys Rob had highlighted went somewhere else. Looking forward to the draft!
Yeah, I was bummed out we didn’t take Bitonio. Rob really sold me on him….and he was spot on.
The thing is I don’t like Lockett but for some reason I just feel he’s on Seattle’s radar. I also feel he’s a late 3rd round pick that Seattle would reach for in the 2nd. I also notice Carl Davis at 60 and I just don’t see that happening.
Rob is diabolical. Last year he soent months promoting various WRs for Seattke R1, then every mock draft he published always had every single on of them taken before our oick… did the same with Bitonio. He is just playing with you. Be at peace… this year there is no way he can take enough OLs off the board by #63 to leave us bereft.
* spent… pick. Sorry bout that.
The rob effect. Every player will be analyzed and discussed, and those you like will be drafted before the Seahawks pick. The numerical value of the rob effect is inversely related to how close your player was picked before the Seahawks pick.
I am wise to Rob’s ways. I’ve been over playing the Tyler Lockett pick at 63so when I finally do put my last draft out. No one should be surprised. I’m keeping it close to the vest for now. Like I said before. I absolutely hate the Pick.
Grady Jarrett to the Vikings – shades of John Randle. Unlikely he falls to #63, but I would love to see him in a Seahawk uniform next year.
I would love to get Jarrett with our 2nd round pick rather than gambling on potential-oozing WRs and he makes the loss of Mebane easier to deal with at a huge reduction in salary.
I think the last three years have proven that a strong run game + a historically great defense win. Drafting at the bottom of each round leaves you with slim pickings at the offensive skill positions so for this year’s draft, better to keep restocking the defense and OL. Try to find a franchise back in 2016.
Improve the OL to buy RW more time and open holes for Marshawn. I think drafting an OG makes more sense than a C so I’d target Glowinski in Rd 3 and a C in Rd 5.
I think Graham’s impact this year will be huge and lessens the need for a stud WR. Kearse is going to have to prove he’s worthy of a roster spot in 2016 so hopefully we see more of the 2013 version of him. Matthews won’t be a world-beater but he’s an interesting option. There’s so much value at WR this year that players like Coates and Funchess are much greater risks than we should take.
Do you guys think Washington could be a trade partner for us? Our pick at 63, one of this years 4ths, and our natural 3rd next year (which would be “replaced” by a comp. pick) – if Mcgloughlan wants to copy the Seahawks way maybe he’ll pepper the mid rounds for success like we did…and Washington does have a lot of holes. This would get us WAY up in rd 2 for almost ANYA rd 2 prospect – Fisher, DGB, Jarrett, maybe Eli Harold….some darn good players!
Ben if Washington would do it I think that would be an awesome move up for the Hawks and really opens up the options available with our 1st pick! I think it would take more to move up that far though.
Well we seem to not value first round picks, so how about just giving #63, 2016 1st rounder, and then they swap 3rd round picks with us too… Then our 3rd rounder would be much higher to target OL.
We get DGB, OL we want early 3rd, and continue the trend of no more 1st round contracts…I think they want value, and a late 1st rounder with its’ paycheck isn’t worth it at #32-31-30…
They seem not to value late R1 picks, especially when presented with a veteran alternative.
Chawk – I agree. As I’ve posted before, I would not be at all surprised if our 2016 #1 pick is used to trade for a veteran WR.
Hey Rob,
I saw you had DGB going at 41 to the Ravens, I know they need some receiving help but do you think they’d take him after their GM’s comments that basically said they dont want to draft any players with DV backgrounds? Do you think thats just smoke and mirrors on his part?
I don’t know for sure but it’s my understanding this won’t be an issue for the Ravens. Doesn’t mean they take him, but I believe they are willing to.
Personally, I think I’d rather take someone other than Morse if we’re putting him at center. There are other options later I’d consider. Take Jackson then someone like Grassu or the GT, BC guys. That’s if DBG isn’t viable.
Is there any center out there that can also long snap? It would be great to fill two positions with one player.
They signed Greshem to an extension so probably wouldn’t do that.
That would be a tough double duty. Mainly because the two types of snaps are so different. The regular snap is a one handed snap, while the long snap is a two handed pass. The first is with the head up and looking at the defense and the long one is with the eyes looking at the target.
2nd Smith (OT)
3rd Jarrett (DT)
4th Conley (WR)
4th Morse (G)
4th Montgomery (WR)
5th Mason (C)
5th Riddick (LEO)
6th Zenner (RB)
6th Irving (DE)
I like this. I would think about taking Dres Anderson in the 4th in place of Conley, though.
Ty Montgomery is a great KR/PR, but why not get also a competitive and successful WR all in one with Tyler Lockett. If DGB is taken too early, look maybe for a smaller move up to get Lockett. Say we use our 4th rounder to move a few spots, but keep our NO traded 4th rounder…
Lockett is worth it!
Montgomery is a much better receiver than given credit for. Yes, his hands need work, but he’s not that much different than Sammie Coates when it comes to upside as a WR. Montgomery has better technique IMO.
Yes. I am also leaning towards Dres Anderson in place of Conley, although Conley would also be fine. Anderson seems to have an innate feel for the game, and a swagger. Conley seems to be working to overcome the physical aspects a bit more.
Agreed about Dres. Special player, ‘swagged out,’ unique character, touhgher than he looks, a better deep threat then Devin Smith IMO, great bloodli nes, broke numerous records at Utah, good SPARQ score, explosive.
Nope. Keep the dres talk quiet! He’s my one secret draft choice who I think can be had in the 6th (but take in the 5th) who was on pace to be one of the more explosive recievers in the class. Not on montgomerys level as for returns but has a bit of experience at it….probably imho one of the least analyzed players in this draft
Sorry Peter, the secret’s out on him. He’d be great value in the 5th or 6th, but I’ll be shocked if he gets out of round 4. He’s not a retuner, but I see what you mean.
As for returners I’m looking for every possible angle in case a specific returner doesn’t fall to seattle…the list of guys with chops is really pretty small:
Montgomery, Agholor, Goodley, Alford, D. Johnson (RB NIU) I’m listing the guys the have had significant impact in the return game not just stood back there because…I actually hope it was a function of bad blocking because past Montgomery the list is even smaller and we may be in for another season of fair catches
Don’t forget this kid from Maine? WR Demarr Aultman.
They’ll fix the return game, Seattle knows how important/wise it is to fill or draf for specific roles.
It’s why I’m so high on Montgomery as you mentioned. Best returner in this class besides Lockett, Anquan Boldin esque size, RW type character/personality, Percy Harvin type weapon, and actually quite comparable to Sammie Coates in terms of receiving skill, extremely physical, great run blocker, and some really nice swag and confidence.
Yeah, Conley plays like he’s scared of contact. None of that from Dres. He’d give it right back to the LOB.
Looks good Ed – sign me up today and I’d take this list!
That would be an awesome draft for us Ed!
Rob, although picking at #63 is not a good position for landing a SE, I would argue that it is an excellent position for landing a top OL, especially a G/C type. As your own mock shows, even with a run on the 2d tier OTs: Ogbuehi, Fisher, Sambrailo and Smith, and even with Cann off the board, the Seahawks are still left with several outstanding prospects. In addition to Morse, as indicated above Tomlinson, Jackson and Marpet are still available. All will be gone by our pick in R3. Given Seattle’s need for an OL, we are in great shape at #63.
I agree that the clues point to Morse being Tom Cable’s pick, over Tomlinson or Jackson. Morse is more versatile and just has the attributes that Cable seems to prefer. However, the more I hear about Marpet, the more he appears to fit the “unique talent” profile preferred by John and Pete, instead of Cable’s preference for a run-game mauler… I just believe Marpet has Seahawk written all over him. My money is on him being the pick if available. We can be glad because any one of Morse, Marpet, Tomlinson or Jackson would be a great boost to our OL, so how can we go wrong? Add the possibility that it might also be Ogbuehi, Sambrailo, or Smith, and the big uglies are looking prettier every day.
Re the Center position, Hroniss Grasu also fits the unique-talent profile, for rarely do you see a C with such quickness, but I think his appeal is limited to just a few zone teams. Most teams are not going to be that attracted to a 295 lb center, who might struggle with 350 lb monster nose tackles, but the Seattle zone scheme is a great fit for him, and it would not surprise me that Grasu might fall to our pick in late R3, where we would gratefully grab him.
I continue to argue that Pete’s eternal hunger for the tall #1 red-zone receiver has been met in Jimmy Graham, though he will primarily play H-back, not SE. (I have also argued that having your #1 receiver at H-back, and therefore covered by a LB or a S, instead of at SE, and covered by the CB, is a benefit.) Therefore, the WR we pick in this draft will be the guy to primarily be the punt returner, and for that reason, I believe it will be McBride or Montgomery in R4 (and I much prefer McBride).
Re the projection that Seattle will take a RB at some point, there is no room on the 53-man for a 4th RB. They would have to cut Christine Michael in order to carry one, and I just don’t see that happening. Any RB drafted this year will be late round, someone who can be carried on the practice squad for a year.
” All will be gone by our pick in R3.”
This suggests to me that a trade back at #63 for an extra pick and then a subsequent trade up at #95 would put us in the sweet spot to get two of our preferred targets. There are prospects after #95 but the chances of them starting in 2015 is much lower, IMO.
I think if Morse, Marpet, Grasu, Tomlinson, and Jackson are all on the board then I think it a slam dunk they trade back to late 60’s- early 70’s.
In doing so, they probably pick-up any early rd 5. Then I think they trade their #3 (#95) and newly acquired early #5 to move up into 80’s for WR Tre McBride. He gives them speed, grit, return ability, swagger and chip on his shoulder (being from small school) to fit in the WR room.
You would have 2 impact players and still 3 #4’s to address RB, OG/C, CB or DE.
IMO it’s not worth missing out on your preferred lineman for the sake of another fifth round pick. They already have three.
Jon is saying to trade that new #5 to move back up in the 3rd. So essentially you could get two of your lineman (if they are all still there) while not giving up anything substantial
You’re risking missing out on a guy you really like for the sake of being able to move up in round three. If there’s a guy you have to have in round three and it takes a 5th to move up, just take your guy at 63 and move up anyway. They have three 5th rounders as it is. They don’t need another 5th to move up.
If the “trade up for DGB” does not work and he is picked in round 1, the best option, in my opinion, would be picking Grady Jarrett at 63, then take Mitch Morse at 95 (i think he will be there) and Ty montgomery, Frank Clark/Shaq Riddick and Steven Nelson at round 4. In later rounds, SEA could pick a big guy like Dezmin Lewis and others OLineman.
Grady Jarrett long gone in this mock.
I know, but i dont expect him to be picked until 3rd round.
DGB has to be smoke and mirrors every year are first pick is top secret and comes from no where, been to many hints and clues this year that hes are man. I for one would love the pick, I just don’t see it happening he’s Seattle red herring this year.
Pauline well sourced. Doesn’t deal in smoke and mirrors.
Perhaps DGB is the red herring. The actual pick could be something infuritating. Like Mike Davis.
They talk a lot about players they like when it’s becomes clear they will be gone. I doubt it’s smoke and mirrors, they just don’t think they have a shot at him.
While I agree it’s possible that both BAL trades down from R1 and DGB gets drafted right around 40, I don’t think it will be BAL that drafts him.
As I write this, I’m aware that the arguments in favor of SEA trading UP to take DGB are the same arguments in favor of BAL trading DOWN to do the same thing. However, BAL and SEA are in vastly different situations, both in terms of personnel needs and media scrutiny.
To start with the business end of things, BAL need a WR. They also need a RB, a TE who can stay healthy and some serious help in their secondary. In this mock, Gurley and Gordon are both off the board by 26, and there isn’t a TE in the draft worthy of a R1 pick. So if TE and RB aren’t in the running, which way might BAL be leaning in R1?
If their pre draft prospect visit tracker is any indication, their priority is DB. They had multiple pre draft contacts (private workout, interview, Combine/Senior Bowl/pro day, etc.) with the following 4 DBs – Kevin Johnson, Marcus Peters, Eric Rowe and PJ Williams. Johnson is off the board by 26, but Peters, Rowe and Williams are still available. By way of comparison, BAL had multiple pre draft contacts with only one WR – Phillip Dorsett (who also is still available at 26 on this mock).
In addition to the DB group, BAL had multiple pre draft contacts with RBs Jay Ajayi and David Johnson. Neither are worthy of being selected at 26, but either might be at 41, and both are at 58. Keep in mind that the only RB on the Ravens roster is Justin Forsett entering his 8th season. Oh, sure they have a backup RB, but you’ve never heard of him, and with good reason. They do have 2 FBs in Juszczyk and Small, but that’s not going to cut it. They NEED a RB. This might not affect their selection at 26 (only if both Gordon and Gurley are gone), or any possible trade down if they go that way. But it should affect their strategy in R2.
Based on their pre draft moves, and based on the prospects available in this mock, I’d say BAL does not trade down from 26. Instead, they use that selection to draft Marcus Peters. Even if they are set on WR early, again based on this mock, I think they’d take Dorsett.
The foregoing is based strictly on BAL’s personnel needs and pre draft moves. However, there’s even more reason why they won’t take DGB, and why SEA is in a totally different position in terms of media scrutiny.
SEA’s GM isn’t on the record as saying this:
“Someone who has domestic abuse in their background, it’s going to be tough for them to be considered a Raven.” Ozzie Newsome, 2/24/14
Nor is their owner on record as saying this in regards to DV:
“It was my worst year as an owner. I had 14 good years and then an absolutely crappy year.” Steve Biscotti, 2/24/15
“I think it’s changing our draft board.” Steve Bisciotti, 4/1/15.
I’m not sure how either Newsome or Bisciotti maintain any credibility as individuals, or how the Ravens maintain credibility as an organization, if they take someone with DV in their recent past as the first selection in this draft.
I think you are right. But the Ravens are one of the top organizations for a reason. Gaining talent when it presents itself is the goal. Is DGB off the board completely? possible. Can they justify taking a player with the upside of DGB in spite of DV issues? The quotes suggest it would have to be a pretty significant value. Would it be a shock to see the Ravens select him after getting another pick in a trade back? Lets be honest and recognize nothing an NFL organization does should really be seen as shocking. They have info we do not, and honestly organizations do things that sure look silly from the outside. They are human, DGB is human, and we are human. Is there any way we could claim with any certainty that we know what any team will do, especially on draft day? Perhaps this is why all these projected drafts are called mocks, as the smart teams around the league mock what fans and draftnicks have to say.
As hard as it might be for me to justify, I think there is a difference between targeting a player with a DV history like DGB – that is, trading down and using the pick received to take him – vs simply taking the BPA that falls to you.
It may seem like splitting hairs. But I think it makes a difference. In the first scenario, BAL is basically saying “this is THE guy we want in this draft, DV background be dammed” as opposed to taking him at 58 if he fell that far. It’s the difference between INTENT and opportunity. I don’t think BAL wants to display an intent to draft a guy with that kind of background, as opposed to simply taking advantage of an opportunity to take the BPA, who happens to have a DV past.
At any rate, this is the secondary reason why I don’t see BAL drafting DGB. The primary reasons are their personnel needs in combination with their pre draft moves. Multiple pre draft contacts with 4 DBs, 3 RBs, 3 DE/EDGE, 2 OL, 2 WR and 1 TE. (BTW, in my original comment I said BAL had multiple pre draft contacts with only 1 WR (Dorsett). I stand corrected. They also had multiple pre draft contacts with UNLV WR Devante Davis). This suggests, but doesn’t prove, they are focused on DB and RB.
I will quote myself and say “I think you are right”. I just wanted to present an argument so that we are not pretending to be surprised if this type of thing were to happen. Another reason I think you are right is because they do have more needs. It just happens, their various needs may be a more clean argument as to why they may not take DGB after a trade down than the issues with DV (even if their quotes look pretty suggestive as to intent as far as DV is concerned).
I can’t say with any certainty because I don’t know for sure, but it’s my understanding they don’t have an issue drafting DGB. Doesn’t mean they will, but I think he’s on their board.
Torrey Smith is a big loss for Baltimore. Big loss. One way or another he has to be replaced.
Just me talking, but I think their primary target at 26 is Melvin Gordon. If he’s off the board (as he was in this mock), I think their next target is either of Kevin Johnson or Marcus Peters. I might put Peters first if both are available and Gordon isn’t. This assumes Gurley is the first RB taken.
Speaking of Gurley, BAL held private workouts for Gordon, Ajayi, and David Johnson, but not Gurley. Maybe he’s enough of a known quantity they didn’t feel the need. But you’d think they would want to check his knee. Were they put off by the injury? My guess (and that’s all it is), they knew they didn’t have a chance to draft Gurley picking at 26 so why bother?
Besides the DBs and Rbs, they also held private workouts for Shane Ray, Randy Gregory and La’el Collins. I suppose they could take any of those 3 at 26 – they need EDGE help, and even though OG isn’t a need this year, Yanda is a FA in 2016. Ray and Collins are the kind of talent at their respective positions that would be hard to pass up in the back end of R1.
Dorsett is a bit of a wild card. If he’s available, and he probably will be at 26, they may take him. He won’t make it to their next pick – even if they trade down. Dorsett might not make it past Day 1.
One thing I am confident of – BAL is very interested in Dres Anderson. If they can, they will draft him. Preferably in R4 (122 or 125), but they may even do it in R3/90.
Has Gurley been taking any private workouts? I suspect he’s had meetings but not workouts. There’s not much he can do on the knee.
Right. Not workout. Interview.
No, but there’s a video out there of him running on a treadmill. Apparently he’s well ahead of his recovery schedule and could very well be ready dor week 1.
My Brain Hurts
http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/2015-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/category/mitch-morse
That is a really good link – thanks Mad. Reading that he does sound Seahawky.
Rob there does not seem to be as much buzz about Waller since the combine. Where do you think he goes? I think he would be an absolute steal from the 3rd round on.
How many 6-6 guys are out there that have great hands and can run 4.4? I know he lacks polish and needs to improve his route running by my goodness he has everything you look for from a physical standpoint.
Trevor, yes, Waller is a freak and a mismatch nightmare by simply being on the field. The problem is that he is not just raw but extremely raw. Poor route runner. His great height is mostly in stork-like legs, his arms look surprisingly short. He should be much more of a factor than he has been.
That said, he fits the role of freak tall target and, like Funchess, if he can play at all while he develops, it would not be a waste.
Here, he runs around a lot ineffectively, but makes a handful of great plays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jex4aA4BLXI
I prefer other tall WRs, but Waller would do.
33 1/4 inch arms
Better measurements than DGB
He has the same athletic qualities of Vincent Jackson (not the physical qualities). There’s some concern about his love for the game. He’s admitted he drifted in and out of games. As tantalizing as the physical numbers are, they’ll be no good if he isn’t prepared to work at it.
Thanks guys makes sense that it is an attitude issue. If he does not have passion he would not survive in our locker room. It is too bad because we sure could use a Vincent Jackson clone.
The lack of intensity might explain the odd look of Waller’s film. He disappears for long stretches. Same with Funchess.
Both guys have the physique and the talent. Can the drive be instilled?
Not sure if it’s an attitude issue. GT ran the ball 790 times last year, and threw it 203. Their starting QB had a 51% completion rate. If I was a WR on that team I too might have “drifted in and out of games” as Rob put it.
I never want to make excuses for a player but if those numbers are true…yikes! 16.9 passes per game. 8.5 completions per….yeah I can see the drift in and out of games as a real possibility.
Although this would never happen, what would happen if we lost both Okung and Sweezy to injuries this season? What if we had prepared for that(which we won’t)? This would be my dream scenario for the offensive line full of young stars:
Round 2: Laken Tomlinson, G, Duke
Height: 6-3. Weight: 323
Or
A.J. Cann, G, South Carolina
Height: 6-3. Weight: 313.
Although these guys are shorter than other top Oline prospects, they are consistent in blocking. They both are the mauler type of G that Tom Cable loves and they would take the LG spot.
Round 3: Donovan Smith*, OT, Penn State
Height: 6-6. Weight: 338.
Just look at him! He is the type of prospect I want covering RW’s back. He is long and his tape shows some pro bowl potential. He secures LT.
Round 4(NO pick): Mitch Morse, G, Missouri
Height: 6-5. Weight: 305
Or
Ali Marpet, OT/C, Hobart
Height: 6-4. Weight: 307
Both these guys are tough as nails and have real potential. I think both a pretty technically sound and they would seal the deal at center.
Round 4: Mark Glowinski, G, West Virginia
Height: 6-4. Weight: 307
Super athletic, SPARQ God. Looks like a sweezy clone. Plug him in at RG, Simple.
RT: Still Justin Britt
This would mean that your Seahawks would have a line that consists of
RT: Donovan Smith
RG: Laken Tomlinson or AJ Cann
C: Mitch Moorse or Ali Marpet
RG: Mark Glowinski
RT: Justin Britt
Looks pretty good to me.
And before everyone gets mad because it’s unrealistic, let me explain again that this is just a dream Oline. This would never happen in a million years, just something to get my mind off the draft (which is taking way to long to get here). I would love it if we even drafted one of these guys. Go ahead and comment who you like or would replace.
Would be great if they could pull it off!
The thing for me is that’s a pretty wide net the only one I don’t see much in besides what the team just lost is Aj Cann….
BTW, anyone else think Britt and Morse could be related???
http://www.garypinkel.com/wp-content/gallery/mu-vs-georgia/justin-britt-mu-vs-georgia.jpg
http://media.columbiamissourian.com/multimedia/2014/08/26/media/Mitch_Morse_t_w600_h3000.jpg
Morse is Britt’s uncle…man britt looks like such a kid
Rob, Tony Pauline has Morse as a rd.5, Sambrailo and Marpet as rd. 3. I hope things wind being much more like his projections. If so, the Seahawks would land many more of the guys we want for them.
This is what I don’t get. I love Pauline and other draft guys, but so what if he has Morse as a 5th rounder? NFL teams boards look nothing like a draft pundits. Some guys are ranked higher, some are lower. If Seattle feels like a prospect is ‘their guy’ they’re not going to care what his perceived value is.
The only thing seperating for example a 3rd round pick from say a 6th rounder is one team’s opinion.
Volume, the teams will do what they want, paying no attention to us or any of the draft pundits. All we’re doing is having fun guessing.
If Pauline’s projections are closer to the eventual truth than Rob’s, we stand a much better chance landing our favorites. The recent rumors have shot the draft board upwards pushing “our guys” into rd. 1 and 2, but who knows.
Remember Britt was listed as 5th rounder too – and we took him in the 3rd. Schneider said he had something like 16 guys as first rounders – so I think it is hard to know how each team ranks guys.
We took Britt in round 2.
Sorry right
Here is an interesting article about draft boards.. and one persons opinion of what they might look like heading into the draft.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/4/24/8490361/nfl-draft-2015-big-board-visual-aid-for-draft-weekend
Look for your favorite draft crushes and see where they fit the “big board”
Donovan Smith ranked at 65. Right in our wheelhouse. I’d love that pick at 63. Also J. Collins rankd at 67. That would be a decent pick as well. Eli Harold ranked 70? Seems pretty low to me. I woul be shocked and extatic if he was still on the board at 63.
Rob, I know we’ve previously discussed these 2 guys, but do you think Michigan St S Kurtis Drummond or Penn St S Adrian Amos could be had at the back end of round 5?
I think Drummond goes higher than rd. 5. Both good safeties.
I think Drummond will certainly be there in that range. Amos there’s a chance, but he’s athletic enough to go earlier.
Evan Spencer out of Ohio State as a late round option?
Tremendous character, tenacious blocker. Showed good athleticism at his pro day (4.45 40, 1.6 split).
Issue is he is extremely raw and there isn’t a lot of tape on him. But along with Montgomery seems like a guy we would like.
Evan Spencer was used as a utllity/garbage type of support player, hardly targeted with passes. Nobody knows if he can play receiver.
I see no reason the Hawks would like him. There is relatively little track record on which to base an assessment except his workout results.
With literally dozens of other WRs, no reason to consider him.
As a 7th rounder/UDFA. A third or forth WR for the practice squad. Good athlete with the exceptional character to capitalize on that athleticism. We seem to like high character football players.
Check out Ross Scheuerman. Quick twitch RB turned WR in the mold of Edelman. He ran a 4.62/1.65 at the Combine, but a 4.45/1.51 at his pro day.
He’s a UDFA.
I’m not saying SEA needs this kind of prospect in camp. But I’m not saying they don’t.
I like this pick… I’ve been torn on my Hawks Mock taking Morse at #63 or #95. I’d love the value of getting him at #95, but not at the risk of “losing our guy”… Obviously SEA would still take another OL (or 2), but this pick would fill an IMMEDIATE need with a bona fide STARTER. I know OL picks aren’t sexy, but necessary…
2015 Seahawks Starting OL:
LT: Russell Okung (could need replacing after 2015 season)
LG: Alvin Bailey or Rookie
C: Mitch Morse (Lewis can continue to be groomed, LJP is a safety blanket that can play OG as well)
RG: JR Sweezy
RT: Justin Britt
063. Mitch Morse (OL, Missouri)
095. Frank Clark (DL, Michigan)
112. Henry Anderson (DL, Stanford)
130. Corey Robinson (OL, South Carolina)
134. Chris Conley (WR, Georgia)
167. Julian Wilson (DB, Oklahoma)
170. Darren Waller (WR, Georgia Tech)
181. Shaquille Riddick (DE/OLB, West Virginia)
209. LaDarius Gunter (DB, Miami)
214. Justin Varga (RB, Yale)
248. Terry Poole (OT, San Diego St)
I think thats waiting too long to take a WR and theres no KR/PR drafted
Wait, so now we are drafting a 4th-round guard in the 2nd round and that’s an okay thing? My faith would be pretty tested if this came about. Cable’s guys? He’s a good coach, but if he’s the guy that pushed for Carp and Moffitt, maybe he should just be another voice in the crowd. Okung is the only good lineman we’ve drafted since this group came in, with the jury still out on Britt. Maybe Morse can play, but I think I’d rather bust on some guys that might really be difference-makers than overdraft a guy who can be a decent guard or center.
Rhino, you make a good point. As I noted, Tony Pauline and others see Morse as a rd. 4-5. On the other hand, Morse is a great fit.
I think the argument for going for a difference maker instead is supportable, with Andy Gallik, Shaq Mason, Max Garcia available later for C, Poole, Gibson, Crisp, etc. also later.
Tony Pauline isn’t our GM.
There is no consensus in the draft. Teams boards can vary by a lot.
Exactly what I’ve been trying to get across, but you said it much better my man. 100% agree.
I agree. Over drafting a guy like Morse is reminiscent of the mistake they made last year by passing on Bitonio and going after Britt.
Different draft, different personnel, different situation.
Britt held his own. He was a rookie and should improve. Bitonio would have cost the team Richardson (in the eyes of JS), so they had to pass and take the next best OT on their board. Britt will be solid, long-term, so I am pleased. Richardson was looking pretty good late in the year before the injury, so I think it was the right decision at the time.
I agree completely. I like Morse with one of your 4th round picks. But at 63 he is a reach for a Guard / Center Convert.
I really hope we trade up but if we don’t and take Morse at 63 it is exactly like passing on Bitonio and taking Britt. It is just a move that does not make sense. I like Cable as an OL coach but as a talent evaluator I have no faith in him after Moffit, Carp and Britt.
It’s only like last year if you pass on a Bitonio in round one and wait on another prospect. There isn’t a Bitonio to pass on.
1. So we’re writing Morse off because conventional thinking had him in round four a few weeks ago? Remember when Richard Sherman was a fifth round pick?
2. Sweezy has been as good as any guard in the NFC with one or two exceptions the last two years.
3. Center is a huge need. Morse would be a center, not a guard.
I can’t believe so many Seahawks fans are still hung up on perceived draft value. Have we learned nothing? If Morse were the pick at 63, but could have been had much later, it doesn’t matter as long as he works out. But the crux of any pick is ‘will they work out?’ And draft position means very little in that equation. Bruce Irvin, apparently way over drafted is one of the best first rounders from his class. Russell Wilson, a third rounder, is AT LEAST on par with the number one pick that year. Doug Baldwin, our best WR was undrafted. Most picks by the Hawks are examples of this. And God forbid they make a selection like Mike Davis at 63, but if they do, they have earned the benefit of the doubt that they know what they’re doing.
WIlliambryan,
excellent if they work players can be selected anywhere and 1-2 seasons later it really doesn’t matter. Nice tiny bit of bait and switch at the end with Mike Davis! Sure benefit of the doubt but with him particularly it’s not about rounds and value, it’s about at least for me it would be a waste simply because it would be thinking far to forward as to the future as that every year there are new RB’s to look for and regardless of Davis’ 2013 tape…hes’ still not fundamentally such a world beating prospect that when lynch leaves he’s going to carry the mantle by himself…..
People forget Lynch was a first round draft pick for a reason. Davis looks good in 2013. Davis never looks great. And if you ever see old lunch tape on youtube from high school to his “ghost riding the whip” days at Cal he was Beast mode then. I know this is a long tirade about RB’s but hedging against the future with a 2nd or third or even 4th round pick because you couldn’t scout C.Mike better and you don’t want to pay Turbin when his contracts up like 2 million per year would be a boneheaded move from the people who do have the benefit of the doubt but…you know couldn’t see that C.MIke cant’ switch hands when he runs…
Yes, it does matter, because there is an opportunity cost to overdrafting a player. There are going to be guys you like on the board in the 2nd that won’t be around in the 3rd, so taking a guy in the 2nd that you could get in the 3rd, thus missing out on the guys that go off the board after your pick, is dumb, even if the guy you end up picking works out.
I’m not writing off Morse, but there is usually a good reason that conventional wisdom has a guy as a mid-round prospect. It’s because he hasn’t shown enough potential or production to be higher. Sometimes it turns out he’s better than everybody expected, but that’s fairly rare.
I don’t think it’s that rare, especially for this team. That opportunity cost only matters with conventional wisdom and Pete Carroll and Schnieder have made it a point to remind all of us that they strive to be uncommon. And to your example, sure, maybe they could have got Britt later but they wanted him where they were at… Doesn’t that say everything right there?
I’m with Rob on this. What’s ‘overdrafting?’ Because the Kiper’s, Rang’s, Pauline’s, etc., say what round a guy is perceiced to go in, then that means they wasted a pick or took a guy ‘too soon?’ There’s nothing wrong with grabbing your guys a couple rounds early if it ensures you get who you want. It’s actually quite smart, because then your not fighting your board or moving guys up and down the board and re-setting it.
I would say it’s pretty simple. Overdrafting is taking a guy earlier than you had to take him. And there is something wrong with grabbing your guy a couple rounds early, even if you get what you want. Let’s say you have the 1st and 3rd picks in the draft and your board is:
1. Fowler
2. L. Williams
3. Cooper
Obviously, the best you can come out of this is to get Fowler and Williams. If you know (or believe, with very good reason) that the team with the #2 pick has a board that goes 1. Williams 2. Cooper 3. Fowler, then you would be a fool to just “follow your board” by taking Fowler #1, because then you are going to end up with Fowler and Cooper instead of Fowler and Williams. You should pick Williams #1, let the second team get Cooper, then go Fowler #3.
Same thing applies. If you are taking a guy that “everybody else” thinks is a fourth-rounder with your second-round pick, you are missing all the guys between 64-94 that you could have had *in addition to* picking up “your” guy in the early 4th. Even if you are right about your guy, you’ve missed out.
Now, of course it’s all easy with this kind of knowledge, and we are assuming that the consensus of the analyst/mock/scouting world is close to right, and I’ll admit that’s something we just can’t know. Maybe there are a few other teams that really think Morse (for example) is worth an early-3rd or better, so taking him isn’t the wasted opportunity I’ve described. So I wouldn’t complain about picking a guy 10-15 picks “too soon,” because that’s cutting it pretty fine. But if you are taking a guy everybody else thinks is a 5th-rounder in the 2nd round, you are messing up *even if* he really is worth a 2nd-round pick, because you are passing up other guys also worth a 2nd-round pick when you do that.
When Wilson was drafted in the 3rd, I felt like we could have waited until the 4th or even 5th. Turns out, Philly was going to draft him if we hadn’t. When Irvin was drafted in the 1st, I felt like we reached by two rounds. Then there were reports that as many as five teams were prepared to draft him within the top-25. I want JS to get the guys he wants, I’ll deal with the frustration of feeling like we reached, because he’s right more often then he’s not.
Seahawks draft philosophy in a nutshell (based on observation only):
I think JS looks at the deeper positions first. So he can identify if he can wait at deep positions and focus those early picks on the thin positions, especially if they are need positions. So, in essence, he builds his draft from the bottom up. After JS identifies the guys he wants and the guys he must have, he then values them against current Seahawks, then against the rest of the board. Then he takes what he thinks and knows about how other team’s value the guys he’s targeting. All that leads to his valuation of where his guys should be drafted and where they are at risk of being plucked by other teams. Then, he runs 100s of simulations to identify alternate paths and back-up plans in case of contingencies. After he is comfortable in knowing which picks he needs to get the guys he determines are most important, he considers trading partners to either acquire the picks necessary, or gather additional currency to use to deal with future trading partners.
Rob your a great evaluator of OL talent. There seems to be a curse on you in picking OL for Seattle. I hope you break it this year with Morse because I think he was Cable guy to begin with to replace Carpenter at LG. Then the trade for Graham happened and I think Cable played a little part in why we got a 4th in that deal. I think Cable believe he could get Morse in the 4th and he would be perfect to move to center position. I actually think he’ll be a beast at the center position.
Sammie Coates. I am trying so hard to find promise with him. He is impossible. Drops. Body catches. Lucky catches in coverage. If I can find a long series of nice hands catches and technique, I would be more confident, given that he would probably be in range for the Hawks. But no.
He does have speed—the maddening aspects of Kearse, with super athleticism.
Rob, you have him going to NE. That would not surprise me. Belichick has looked at him closely. Brady’s pinpoint passing style would immediately straighten out some of Coates’ issues. Russell Wilson? Don’t think he would.
If Coats is sitting there it will be difficult for the Hawks to pass on him. Not a fan of Morse @63. He’s not a natural center and he may be available in the 4th round. There will certainly be other centers available later. If they go OL I hope they get Sambrailo or Fisher at #63.
I don’t think it would be that difficult to pass on Coates. If they simply don’t think he, Funchess or Waller are worth the extensive development time it would take to fix them.
He won’t be there in the fourth. How do we know he is not a natural center?
Rob, I think you should correct “Ronald Darby” going forward. That’s his name!
Darby would be my pick at #63. You cannot coach that world class speed. With ET needing 6-8 months to heal from his labrum surgery, I would feel more comfortable with a speed burner to keep the top on the defense. Darby could probably play every secondary position but SS for us.
We need depth for the O Line but as Schneider said, we will not go hog wild for it. I interpret that to me he is satisfied with the guys we have coming back. Cameron Erving and Hroniss Grasu are the cream of the center crop. After that there are a bunch of guys with more promise than production. Jared Wheeler might be the guy. At 6-5, 320 he has the size. Patrick Lewis has bulked up to 311. JPL is still hanging around. We may only need a center to come in an compete if the cream is all gone. I would focus on a road grader for the LG position early.
Darby is undersized, don’t think he meet the wingspan criteria. He is a serious liability against the run. And he witnessed the Jameis Winston sexual assault and refused to testify. I would not take him at 63, regardless of his 4.3 40.
Im afraid that Mitch Morse is going to be the Joel Bitonio of this years draft, a guy that SEA passes and turned out to be one of the best OLineman in the draft.
I will go on record saying there is 0% chance that Morse ends up being the top lineman in this draft. He is a solid mid round pick who will likely end up being a league average Guard / Center IMO.
Who are your favorites?
0%?
He Rob I would say 0%. like Morse but when you watch his actual game tape what would make you think he has the potential to be the best lineman in this draft? I am not a pro scout but I just don’t see it. I see a guy who battles and plays hard but lacks functional strength. I don’t see him really dominate in anyway. I think he could be a solid pick but in no way the best lineman in the draft.
I had never heard of Bitonio till you pointed him out but when I watched his tape he jumped off the screen and I was on board right away. He dominated the guy across from him. I just don’t see that from Morse.
Like I said not knocking Morse but I think we need to be realistic about his upside.
0% is too definitive. None of us know how these things will pan out. I bet people thought Richard Sherman had a 0% chance to be elite in 2011.
Fair point if we do take him I certainly hope I am wrong.
While it would be nice, he doesn’t need to be elite. He needs to be active (no injuries) so he can play and gain experience and chemistry. Knock Britt all you want, but statistically speaking, SEA had greater success running behind Britt-Sweezy than any LT-LG combo last year – 4.8 yd average running right vs. 3.7 yd average running left.
I can see what you mean in that Morse doesn’t exactly dominate or overpower his opponent. But I don’t think it’s a lack of functional strength. After all, he performed 36 reps on BP. Like pretty much every OL prospect in the draft, he needs to add some power in his legs.
It looks like a matter of coaching – he needs to learn better hand combat skills, counter moves, footwork, vision, as well converting strength into power; also in the jump in quality of coaching/training from college to the pros.
In the past few years, no college program has consistently produced quality DL prospects more than the Tigers. Good DLs make good OLs in practice, much in the way the LOB makes SEA’s WRs better than they otherwise would be (does anyone else think so?).
Anyway, the Morse-Bitonio comparison isn’t really fair to Rob. If he has a “Bitonio” this year, it’s Sambrailo.
Trevor, on the film I’ve watched, Morse doesn’t get beaten by anybody. Steady, strong, reliable. Technically solid. Smart, solid.
Solid is the word. Not exciting. He is the kind of guy who can be a bedrock of a line, quietly doing the job for the long term.
Isn’t Sambrailo the Bitionio of this draft?
how so? in that I lot of fans want to draft him? maybe….
In addition to needing OL, WR and CB prospects, I think they would like to begin developing Avril and Mebane replacements. They are both expensive players, who are getting older and nearing the end of their contracts. If the right player falls, JS will grab him! Danielle Hunter is intriguing. What do you guy’s think? Tyeler Davison mgiht be a good mid round prospect to groom as a Mebane replacement. Any thoughts?
I have Tyler Davidson on my draft just not sure if he’s at 130 or 134.
I like the guys who play with great effort and have high potential indicated by their physical attributes. He had pretty good production for 3 years and will likely become a solid to great NFL player.
Robert, I think they can find good Mebane replacements throughout the draft. It’s deep for that. As for Avril replacements, it looks to me like a big dropoff after rd. 1, with more interesting prospects in lower rounds and sleepers. I don’t like the names in the middle rounds much. Not a fan of Clark. Shaq Riddickis one of the few.
What is your assessment of Danielle Hunter’s play and potential?
Robert, Rob has covered Hunter, and I agree with him. “Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”. Extremely raw, technically very flawed. Yanks and claws without really executing. No pass rush at all. Just 1 sack for all of 2014.
Obviously he has natural athleticism but he is a long way from being an NFL starter.
So, basically Mitch Morse but at a premium position….. 😉
Dream Draft
2. Dorial Green Beckham WR Oklahoma
3. Danielle Hunter DE LSU
4. Max Garcia C Florida
4. Ibraheim Campbell S Northwestern
4. Mitch Morse OG Missouri
5. Dres Anderson WR Utah
5. Karlos Williams RB Florida State
6. Nick Marshall DB Auburn
6. David Irving DT Iowa State
6. Ryan Russell DE Purdue
7. Reshard Cliett LB South Florida
I like this draft. It would be great if you could squeeze Ty Montgomery into one of the round 4 picks as a projected pro-bowl-caliber returner. If DGB, Dres Anderson, and Montgomery ended up as Seahawks, I think Kearse and Lockette are out of jobs.
Yeah, I’d squeeze out Campbell and take Montgomery there in the 4th. Then take Eskridge or Campbell instead of Karlos Williams in the 5th. Just my preferences. Can pick up maybe John Crockett or Michael Dyer as UDFA for competition at RB.
Let’s go ahead and call it… Seattle will drop back 10 spots.. grab an extra 2016 pick.. and still get their man.
I suspect your right and may be on to something.
If their man is DGB, they won’t get him that way. But I could see them throwing up their hands and trading down.
If Jalen Collins slides in the draft he is my pick to trade up for. It’s a dream to have a Richard Sherman clone on the other side of Richard Sherman. I would pick a couple O Lineman in round 3/4/5. If everything I read here is correct (I have no reason to not believe. A ton of smart people here) that is a sweet spot for O Line. Worry about WR next year. We have Graham now. Reasonable stop gap for a year I would say.
Collins appears a little stiff in the hips to me. Have you seen this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU-H3R4rTUA
Roberts looks good, but I always wonder as silly as this may be…whats his length? 5’11” (?) looks very strong possible nickel corner back?
I cannot find his length anywhere and his listed height varies from 5’11” – 6’1″. But he sure looks like he has great speed, quickness, hops, run support, ball skills and telescoping arms, judging by the way he knocks balls away. Walter Thurmond was 5’11” with really long arms. Roberts can play outside, but looks to me like potential dominator as a nickel back.
You are bringing him on, to stop guys like Edleman
True about Thurmond…Lane as well has the arm length that is required on a 6′ frame.
Collins looks very stiff. He is a long way off. I would not take him.
If you want a Richard Sherman clone, you want Tony Lippett. So close to Sherm, it’s scary. And he’s a pretty good WR, too. Rd.3.
Lippett is a better upside corner than Jalen Colinns? SMH.
I think he is. Jalen Collins and Tony Lippett are very similar in athleticism and size, Lippett is actually bigger and longer. Lippett absolutely has superstar upside, the Seahawks coaching staff and locker room will get the most out of his natural gifts, since he is a hard-worker and team-first guy. Collins has some maturity issues, so his AVAIL-ability could be a question-mark.
Sherman also looked ‘stiff’ at Stanford.
I like both Collins and Lippet I think both will eventually be great cover corners and would be huge additions to LOB.
Rob do you think with the injury and failed drug tests there is a chance Collins could fall to us? I love his upside have you heard anything about his character etc? I am dreaming that he could fall into the late second?
Also Rob what are your thoughts on Lippett at Corner?
Hard to judge Lippett as a corner without seeing him play there. Will Collins fall to 63? I doubt it. I hope he does.
Lippett played corner the last 3 games of the year for Mich St. He gave up 1 catch for 13 yds and was targeted 8 times. Very small sample size so he really is a projection. His coach Dantonio compared him to Chris Gamble who he coached and said did the same thing. He said he wished he had played Lippett at Corner more but that he was too valuable as their top reciever.
As for Collins it would be awesome if he fell for some reason. After you profiled him I watched everything I could find on him and while a little stiff he has great movement skills and is a solid tackler as well. I think he would be an incredible addition to the LOB and outside of the Earl would be the most talented guy they have drafted out of college. I think with a year in our system he would be the starter opposite Sherm.
When I watched him I thought his stiffness was an attribute more of his lack of playing time then an actual physical situation. That he was a bit tentative in switching his hips, but if he falls to 63 I hope Seattle chucks out whatever plan they have and goes for him…. WIlliams is a great addition even with his attitude problems (real or otherwise) but my issue is he’s 30 or right there at it and Collins has potential plus youth on his side.
Lippett looks very good at corner on film. More importantly, Lippett has a strong feel for the game that finds him outperforming despite having measurables that are not top notch. He is only beginning to develop, yet he has won in major college games, in big moments.
His ball tracking is especially outstanding.
I would take Lippett over Collins straightup. His ability at WR, which is very underrated, adds to his value.
I agree with Rob. There are lots of teams in dire need of CB help and not a deep draft for them. They will go early and often.
Really, I Disagree. Watch draft breakdown tape of him vs Alabama. He deals quite well with Amari Cooper arguably they best WR in the class. Turns and defends Cooper well IMO. Watch tape at 2:55, 3:05, 3:23, 3:45 and let me know what you think. LSU #1 defence vs pass at that point. LSU allowed 7pts at the half.
I like the kid – tons of ability, great attitude, plays press or off…and he’s a true soph?!
Reply
Really?
I Disagree. Watch draft breakdown tape of him vs Alabama. He deals quite well with Amari Cooper arguably they best WR in the class. Turns and defends Cooper well IMO. Watch tape at 2:55, 3:05, 3:23, 3:45 and let me know what you think. LSU #1 defence vs pass at that point. LSU allowed 7pts at the half.
I like the kid – tons of ability, great attitude, plays press or off…and he’s a true soph?!
Funny, UKHawk. Looking at exactly the same matchup, I think Amari Cooper owned Jalen Collins.
So does this analyst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RNWpmncaM
I didn’t see an owning personally.
They could do that and still go after son interesting WR’s…dres Anderson, Conley I think will be a fifth rounder or our last pick in the fourth. Many disagree but I think McBride will be a late fourth rounder. Durant whom the hawks brought in could be a udfa, Waller will realistically be a 5th or later…Smelter who has some exciting tape could be a 6th/7th….and for the homers kasen Williams who if he gets right I think could have battled jaelen strong for a similar role as a high pointing specialist and that’s coming from a non huskies homer
Peter, both Smelter and Kasen Williams are injury concerns. Kasen Williams clearly lost a step after his 2013 injury and had little production in 2014. Don’t know if he will ever get back on track. Smelter more recently injured, and that is another one to monitor.
True but if they’re looking to go to camp with 12 WR’s…..got to find them somewhere
Couldn’t agree more.
Only 3 guys I would possibly trade up for who are projected late 30s to late 40s: DGB, Collins, Harold in that order all of which discussed by Rob
Couldn’t agree more.
Only 3 guys I would possibly trade up for who are projected late 30s to late 40s: DGB, Collins, Harold in that order all of which discussed by Rob
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and grady jarret
Love me some GJ. If he’s available at #63 there isn’t any other player I would take. No question. Also worth trading up for, but I’m thinking he might slip a little bit from where Rob has him mocked
Dion Jordan for Christine Michael trade???
To clarify, there is no news to that effect. I just wondered if JS might make a call to explore the possibility of a win win exchange of 2 disappointing players that might benefit from a change.
This won’t happen… no way, unless other draft picks involved.
I am totally neutral on it largely because I know very little about what is really going on with either CM or DJ. But you seem to have a solid opinion…why do you think there is no way?
Dion Jordan was a first round pick.. they gave up a lot to acquire him. He has flashed, but has not put up production. There are rumors he doesn’t have the focus and heart to elevate his play consistently. If this is half true, no way Seattle will take him on. He also has a bigger cap hit.
Part 2, Micheal has no value as a trade chip…. well ,very low.. which means you would have to sweeten the pot. The sardines could also pick up a RB in the draft any round, which might be more productive for them long run.
Rob called out Dion Jordan super early on that year but too me he never warranted that level of pick. And now there’s rumors of him going to the big ducks house in the sky….philly?
I’m pretty stoked to watch old Chip get the band back together out there. I actually find it really fascinating that Pete Carrol didn’t draft a ton of players from USC and instead focused on the ones that got a way as opposed to Kelley’s approach. I’m interested to see where it takes him….
That said I think Kelley has the mind of a true executive corporate business man but I’ve yet to see the football genius at work.
His offense allowed nick foles to have a ridiculously good statistical year. Also lead the league or were near the top in many categories.
Okay…but he has yet to win the big one on any level…and helfrich showed that so much of oregons success was him finding mariota and continuity of coaches and trainers starting from belloitti.
Also nick foles regressed and was traded for three career backups. Perhaps Kelly is the smartest man in the room or perhaps he just thinks he is…
All this Chip Kelley adulation is grinding my gears. What has this guy done? Ever? A national champion wannabe in college a couple times and absolutely squat in the pros. In the mean time, all Pete Carroll has done is win multiple college national championships and build a Super Bowl winner from the ground up in his fourth year as an NFL head coach with only four players from the original roster when he arrived. (Props to you too, JS.)
But…ooooooh…Chip Kelley has a system that will rack up lots of fantasy points, because, you know…fantasy! And PC has a boring old ground ‘n pound attack and a defense that prevents fantasy points from the star players on the opposing team. That’s the difference. Kelley gets the love because his system has the rep of being a wheels-off, fun ‘n gun, air-raid fantasygasm while Pete gets yawned at for clinging to archaic, 70’s-era ideals that have only proven to win championship for like, forever.
Granted, Kelley has had only two year as a pro and Pete wasn’t rocking the world after two years either. But neither was Pete sniffing anywhere near the unwarranted hype Kelley has thus far for no other reason than it might win a bunch of fantasy leagues.
/endrant
Here here!
God Bless you BigDHawk!
This is the NFL, not fantasy
With the exception of the 2010 draft where we got ET (I wanted ET & Trent Williams), I’m going to prepare myself to not necessarily be disappointed but ready to scratch my head and ask myself who is this guy and why did they pick him when someone I want is still on the board… The life of an NFL team fanatic.
Here are the first 3 picks.
2nd
Who I want: (to trade up into 40s for 63, 112, 2016 3rd) DGB, Eli Harold
Who will be picked: Damarious Randall
3rd
Who I want: Marcus Hardison, Frank Clark or Hroniss Grasu
Who will be picked: Mike Davis, Danielle Hunter
4th
Who I want: Mitch Morse, Mike Glowinski, Stefon Diggs
Who will be picked: Tre McBride or Chris Conley
Let me add a few more names
2nd
CB Rollins, WR/TE Funchess, DT Bennett, OG Marpet and OG Jackson
3rd
LB Tull, RB Davis, S Eskridge, OT Havenstein
4th
OG Glowinski, CB Roberts, CB Cox, WR Bell, WR Waller, OT Gibsen
If we got Hunter at the end of the third I’d be pleased.
I can handle hunter in the third. I like way more players then him but I can see the appeal.
Kuya, I think you are being optimistic. It might be a screamer along the lines of:
2-Damarious Randall, overrated safety or Mario Edwards, who has no pass rush skill
3-Mike Davis, a backup type back with no moves
4-Vince Mayle, a slower Kearse clone
Prepare to throw things, break things.
I can see that the mysterious PCJS draft board has made us all very pessimistic lol. Maybe this is the year we celebrate, instead of googling names of players we’ve never heard of before.
Steele, I’d be throwing things if we traded up to get Randall if a couple players I want are there. Not really a knock on Randall cause I think he fits the scheme but just not a popular pick compared to DGB or E. Harold, among others. Just like what Peter & CHawk Eric I’d also be questioning ETs health going into the season.
Prepare to throw things, break things.
lmao
I’m hoping logic holds on draft day and they don’t draft a 2nd round safety because ET may miss the first month, then have him ride the pine for what the rest of ET’s career? I’m all about constantly drafting one safety either SS or FS every year to hedge against injury to Kam and Earl as well as competition for their back ups and some of those backups will move on when it’s their time. Randall is very fast. But he doesn’t fill Earl’s shoes any better then anyone else on the roster (shead, pinkins, bailey) would meaning to me the whole scheme goes out he window without Earl.
If they do take a S first, it will say a lot about ET’s injury prognosis.
True. ET’s very young still and already in rehab so I hope it works out. Torn labrum is a pretty brutal injury but if he’s slated to even miss a month heck 6 weeks a safety early seems like a bit of a misfire when minus ET of course this team has been excellent in coaching up players. I’d rather see what the current back ups can do, or one of the mentions like Drummond, Eskridge, Amos, et al can do. A safety at 63 says to me the worst like ET has degenerative cartilage damage, or something worse and they are gearing to move on.
Shead, Pinkins, Dion Bailey. Can they cover ET’s spot while he recovers?
I’m not sure how anyone’s supposed to match his speed. If he’s out they might have to switch up schemes and go cover-2.
I would hope so or some facsimile of covering ET’s spot. If not then what was the point to drafting any of those guys? You have to trust your scheme for eventualities and hope et makes a speedy recovery. Otherwise you draft a guy high, et comes back and the you have say a second rounder playing on the coverage unit exclusively while et remains one if the best in the game? Man I hope it doesn’t play like that.
I see Dion Bailey taking Jeron Johnson place he was really close last year to getting a roster spot.
I disagree. Randell immediately fills the truck-sized hole at slot CB. Randell also would be the day one starting returner. Emergency backup solution at S is the afterthought. If we remember, Seattle was prepared to draft Eric Barron in the 1st round if he’d fallen to us. I believe they have a plan for a 3rd S and it’s not just moving Kam to WLB.
*Mark Barron
Okay nickel corner but why would kam play wlb? He’s at a nearly always all pro level at ss
My bad read your comment wrong
They also really liked Wazzu S Deone Bucannon last year too.
Guy, I think there are many ways to fill the hole at slot CB.
It is something to address, but it may not be truck sized unless you have zero confidence in Burley, Will Blackmon, or Lane’s recovery. PC moved quickly in “emergency mode” by getting Blackmon and Cary Williams for the shorter term band aids, for better or worse (in the case of CW).
I think Randall if overrated, especially when you can get a S like Kurtis Drummond and others without the high pick. There are fine sleeper corners at the bottom of the draft.
Bingo. I have no confidence in Burley, Blackmon or Lane’s recovery.
I like Burley in the slot – he’s made of the same stuff as Josh Wilson. He’s tough, quick, and gritty. A good backup nickel and good enough to play the first half of the season and not be a liability. If they do go after a nickel type, I don’t think it would be until late on day 3.
Rob, what do you think about Xavier Cooper, Christian Covington and Joey Mbu?
I like Cooper but has short arms
Arm length an issue for Cooper in SEA (min 33 inches). Covington a bit hit and miss. Mbu I think is more or less JAG.
Rob – forgive me if I’ve missed him, but I don’t see Nate Orchard in either round of your mock. Weren’t you high on him earlier.
I like him as a rush specialist, but always in the middle rounds. Limited speed and didn’t test particularly well at the combine. Role player.
Orchard is frustrating. Routinely touted as a great pass rusher, but I don’t see it on film. He’s okay at it. Can he get better?
I think he’s pretty much hitting his ceiling.
Rob who do you view as the best mid-round 3rd-5th prospects as LEO / Edge Rusher and Interior Pass Rusher?
I like Frank Clark’s on-field work even if the off-field stuff is a concern. I like Markus Golden but don’t think Seattle drafts him. Cedric Reed has some appeal. Shaq Riddick has upside. Inside Rakeem Nunez-Roches is a favorite.
Thanks Rob I really like Riddick and Clark as well! I will have to check out Cedrick Reed.
Given the lack on interior pass rushers in this draft if Grady Jarret is available in the 2nd would you consider him? Or do our needs at OL and WR outweigh our need for interior pass rush depth?
Reed has been ill the last year. Tape in 2014 not great. I like Garrett a lot but I’m not convinced he’ll last to #63 and if he does — I still think it’s likely WR/OL wins the day.
For edge, it’s not a great draft for it after rd. 2. I don’t see a pass rusher in Frank Clark. Doesn’t get around the edge, doesn’t bend. Just a vanilla bull rush.
Lorenzo Mauldin may be there in rd. 3-4. Hard to judge because of the system he played in. I think he’s got what it takes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWC-K7ye73s
I like Shaq Riddick, but not as much film of him as I’d like. Markus Golden is a high effort player who lacks the measurables. Zach Hodges, an early favorite, is a question mark.
I think Pete Carroll is going to give Josh Shirley serious consideration. If Shirley can be brought back to what he was as a freshman, he can be really good.
People seem to doubt that Kikaha can play. But if he medically checks out, a big if, there are not many better at pure pass rushing in this draft.
Kikaha can play against bad Pac-12 offensive lines, but against NFL lines he will have a rough time. He’s slow and doesn’t have long arms. He’s far too slow to be a linebacker in Seattle’s scheme, and he doesn’t set the edge in the run game. That alone would get him benched in Seattle if he was a LEO.
I’ll add to this – his best trait is his relentless motor. That reminds me too much of Darryl Tapp, ugh.
Darryl Tapp would be an upgrade over what O’Brien Schofield was, so would Kikaha. I think Kikaha could play WLB, SLB, or LEO (on obvious pass downs). He’s a nice backup to have with all that flexibility.
Ali Marpet getting some serious love on ESPN today.
Don’t you just wish the noise would stop?
Yes… Until it’s Sunday and the draft is over. Then I’ll miss the noise, because the season is still months away.
Would you guys lose it if the Hawks took Kikaha?
I don’t see where he would fit. He’s like the exact opposite of Bruce Irvin, great technique and production but little athleticism. I think the coaches would rather have an athletic freak they can coach up rather than someone who is going to be limited due to him being small and slow.
But Kikaha plays very fast. Does Kikaha have enough athleticism to replace Schofield? Intensity is not a measurable, and Kikaha has it.
Todd McShay loves him. That alone will push his draft stock up a bit.
Well, if Todd McShay likes him then the rest of the league will too? Is that the gist of your post?
I’m not sure what makes Kikaha a better pass rusher than Frank Clark. They aren’t even close. Kikaha is maxed out and Clark is just scratching the surface of his potential.
I think Kikaha has his issues, but so does Frank Clark. Clark is a starter but has poor technique.
You can work on poor technique.
You can’t work on a 4.8 or 4.9 at Kikaha’s size.
Chris Clemons did a lot more than his size/speed says he should have done. Also, I think Kikaha could play either OLB position. K.J. Wright isn’t all that fast either.
I wouldn’t lose it. I’d be shocked given he’s the polar opposite physically that they go for and would have almost no role in SEA’s defense apart from third down rusher.
I’ll tell you now if Jay Ajayi RB Boise was at 63 I’d run to the podium. I think however that Jax will take him and if not he’ll certainly be taken by the Falcons. You have 2 former coaches, although defensive, who understand what an outstanding RB can do for a team and neither team has that guy.
IF Seattle drafts a WR early, do you see him playing right off the bat? It was really frustrating earlier in the year watching Lockette and Walters get targets while Richardson sat on the bench. I would guess a more polished receiver like Tyler Lockett could start right away, but guys like Chris Conley or DGB might take longer to develop and thus we would only see them for the 2nd half of the season. That’s something to consider because the schedule early on is pretty rough (especially if the defense is still recovering from injuries).
Lockett would start as a returner right away. As one of the many undersized slottish type, I really don’t see him supplanting Doug Baldwin in the slot. Lockett does not have reliable hands. Can he play outside in the NFL? He thinks he can, Rob loves him. I just think he is overrated and there are better options.
Drafting a safety early wouldn’t be the worst idea. Earl and Kam’s long term health is a tad frightening. Kam’s body was breaking down last season and Earl’s labrum injury is very serious. They are both extremely physical players. I think both will miss time here and there next season, a good safety prospect would be a fantastic addition. I thought they should have used Jeron Johnson more last year to replace Kam while he was playing hurt.
Toss around this controversial thought again: would the Hawks trade up for Shaq Thompson? He doesn’t fit anywhere neatly, but does it matter? He could back up or situational at any of the D positions. LB, S, edge.
Want a crazy Seahawks draft that makes no sense at all, but would probably result in some great results down the road? Try Shaq Thompson and Tony Lippett.
I know you’ll disagree, butI think Wazzu WR Vince Mayle is one of the more underrated receivers in this draft and would be a much better addition than Tony Lippett.
Lippett isn’t a bad receiver by any means, but there’s no burst or anything that stands out. Another guy who probably isn’t going to improve.
Mayle is just coming on, basketball background and skill set, gritty, great run blocker, really good size, elusive, explosive, highlyt productive. And yes his production could be a result of the offense he played in, but the same could be said of Lippett. Mayle also just seems like a fantastic fit in the locker room as well with his maturity and amazing back-story.
Mayle is a slow version of Kearse. He is a body catcher. For a basketball player, I don’t see someone good at jump balls.
I think Thompson is a third round pick anyway — but can’t see him in Seattle. Running his forty time at that weight at the combine — would be surprised if he’s even got a third round grade in Seattle.
Ran a 4.46 40, 6.89 three cone.
He ran a 4.64, not a 4.46.
And that’s a 4.64 at 228lbs.
Somebody will drop to 63 that we didn’t really expect to be there. We will be so excited when we hear the NFL Draft “chime music.” With the 63 pick in the 2015 NFL Draft, the Seattle Seahawks select…wait for it…wait for it…WHO…WFT…ARE YOU KIDDING ME???…
JS draft history 101-tough to argue
I just can’t see Seattle drafting a mid-round OL at #63 this year. Not with much bigger needs at WR matching up with a spectacular 2nd round group of WRs.
Last year, Seattle drafted Britt at #64. But Britt had a very good combine and Seattle’s need at tackle was urgent. Right now, every spot on the OL is filled with a guy who started games last season. And none of the options in this draft early on are SPARQ heroes. The most athletic OL prospects this year will probably go off the board in rounds 4-6, and Seattle is loaded with pics there.
I think Seattle is seriously considering trading up to take advantage of this WR class, and even if they aren’t, I think the board would have to fall in a peculiar way for them not to take a WR at #63.
Two things here Kip. Firstly, I suspect the Seahawks will have a high third round grade on Mitch Morse. Considering they pick second last in round two, it’s not a major stretch if that projection is accurate. Secondly, we’ve talked a lot about moving up for a WR but no trades were included here. They can’t force the pick on a receiver when the better options are off the board.
did two mock drafts today playing around… first is from fanspeak.com
63: R2P31 DT GRADY JARRETT
95: R3P31 DT MARCUS HARDISON
112: R4P13 S ADRIAN AMOS
130: R4P31 G MITCH MORSE
134: R4P35 WR CHRIS CONLEY
167: R5P31 DE SHAQUILLE RIDDICK
170: R5P34 RB JOSH ROBINSON
181: R6P5 CB CRAIG MAGER
209: R6P33 G MARK GLOWINSKI
214: R6P38 WR KASEN WILLIAMS
248: R7P31 OT LAURENCE GIBSON
I feel like the fanspeak.com draft list left too many players available where they shouldn’t have been. I would think that Jarrett, Hardison, Amos, and Glowinski in particular will all draft at least half a round higher than where they were available here. Needless to say, this draft would be phenomenal. Jarrett and Hardison would make the DL rotation in the first few games and we could save 3 million on McDaniels salary by cutting him. Amos would provide much needed depth at FS. The combination of Morse, Glowinski, and Gibson has become the holy trinity of “sleepers” here at SDB. CB didn’t fall right on this board, Nick Marshall was off the board in the mid 4th, Shaw and Carter from the Pac12 were gone by 95. Mager is built like Thurmond and makes a good hybrid player to work with for both slot and outside play – he had 6 INTs as a senior and a PR average of 12 yards. Robinson is a Forsett-sized Marshawn Lynch and could be a KR – it’s a ton of value at the position for what is essentially a 6th round pick.
And from first-pick.com
Round 2 Pick 31: Jalen Collins, CB
Round 3 Pick 31: Ty Sambrailo, OT
Round 4 Pick 13: Frank Clark, DE/OLB
Round 4 Pick 31: Traded down for 5.7 and 5.28
Round 4 Pick 35 (COMP): Jeremiah Poutasi, OT/OG
Round 5 Pick 7 (DEN): Stefon Diggs, WR
Round 5 Pick 28 (DEN): Darius Philon, DT
Round 5 Pick 31: Shaquille Riddick, DE/OLB
Round 5 Pick 34 (COMP): Laurence Gibson, OT
Round 6 Pick 5: Justin Cox, FS/CB
Round 6 Pick 33 (COMP): Karlos Williams, RB
Round 6 Pick 39 (COMP): Darren Waller, WR/TE
Round 7 Pick 31: Xavier Williams, DT
This second draft has some character issues, starting with Jalen Collins and his multiple +ive drug tests in college, Frank Clark with his DV issues, and Justin Cox with his own DV issues. The draft was pretty skewed by lots of OL and WR being taken higher than they are currently rated by pundits. It’s actually one of the problems I see with the reliance on getting OL talent in the mid rounds. Other teams will see the talent distribution, and it’s unlikely that there are any 2nd round values left in the 5th round. Morse went right before Sambrailo. Glowinski went off right before Poutasi.
I like to say thanks to rob for the website. I’ve always been a football fan and my favorite team started out being the Steelers because my father was a Cowboys fan. There wasn’t even a team in Seattle at that time. I of course changed my allegiance when the Seahawks came into existence. I’m not going to go down the road on how I feel about Seattle’s 1st Super Bowl in Detroit but I will say because of what happened the Steeler’s are not my 2nd team anymore. Anyway in 2010 I really got into football after finding this website and learning to evaluate players but before you can evaluate you have to learn the positions and schemes Seattle plays under PC/JS. At first it was learning the 4-3 defense they run. Then I started looking closer at the offense they wanted to run to begin with.
The reason Seattle is so interested in DBG is he a athletic freak at the split end position. This team is full of slot and flanker receivers but with Paul Richardson out we really only have Clay Mathews on the roster as a split end. DBG would be the last split end off the board and the talent after that drops quite a bit.
I’ve been grading TE for a long time now. I’m really upset that Seattle took CM because the very next pick Traci Kelce went to Kansas City. He’s become everything I wanted for Seattle to replace Miller. Make no mistake here Jimmy Graham will never replace Miller because he’s a flex TE. Miller on the other hand was a very good Wingback who could lead block the run, pass block, and slip out for that catch on 3rd down. I’m hoping Anthony McCoy who is the only alumni from PC days at USC will turn out to be that guy. The problem here is this just isn’t a deep TE class and considering the other needs of the team I have a hard time of trying to fit a Clive Walford or a Tyler Kroft , the only 2 guys I ‘ve considered. I like a Blake Bell but he’s a project having only played 1 year and I believe he goes higher in the draft than Seattle would like for a project.
Now on to the Offensive line. I’m am a complete Tom Cable fan. Anyone who could take a crappy Oakland Raider team to 8-8 is a miracle worker. Injuries have really hurt our draft picks on this OL. Somehow he’s managed to build a OL with other teams backups to fill in and get us to the playoffs 3 years in a row. The ZBS can make a smaller more athletic guy do very good. In the college ranks however the best OL is usually put at the tackle position with the lesser athletic guys taking the inside positions. So there’s a reason your starting to see Tackles move to the inside in the NFL now. Example Mitch Morse. He’s a little tall for a center but his wing spam and arm length fits. One thing is certain he is defiantly not an NFL Tackle. My next Example is Darryl Williams who played as a ROT. He defiantly not a tackle in the NFL. He however would make a great LG with his length, size, and power making up for the less than stellar athletic ability. This guy has that Breno attitude to succeed where a really athletic big guy like Jarvis Harrison who lacks the passion to play.
All these things I rambled on about I actually learned a great many from Kip over the years since I started visiting this site. So thank you again for the website rob.
Oklahoma State’s Sam Wren was a VMAC visitor. Posted double digit sacks. 6-3 210. Squattier guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC57VuKFZ9k
Correction: he did a workout for them.
I have him at 6’2″ 255. Not sure how much of a workout he could do. He missed the Combine with a knee injury.
About to comment about EDGE prospects SEA has looked into so far.
You’re right. Wren is not 210.
They have looked at Frank Clark, Josh Shirley, Sam Wren and Darius Allen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG88kdJupyU
This is actually a pretty interesting four.