As far as stupid decisions go, this one's a corker from Alec Ogletree
In my updated mock draft last week, I had the Seahawks taking Alec Ogletree at #25. He only lasted that far due to possible red flags over a four-game suspension in 2012 for a failed drugs test. His chances of making it into the 20’s (or later) increased this weekend with the news he was arrested and charged with DUI in Arizona a week ago.
Ogletree’s agent Pat Dye told Mike Florio at PFT:
“Last weekend, my client Alec Ogletree was pulled over for speeding and a lane violation in Arizon. After the officers smelled alcohol, they conducted tests and also cited him for DUI. Although Alec regrets this incident terribly, he is thankful that there was no accident and that no one was hurt. Because this matter is still pending, we cannot comment further publicly at this time.”
Quite aside from the rampant stupidity of drink driving, what on earth was Ogletree thinking? He’s currently in the middle of the biggest job interview of his career. You’d expect a person in that situation to be dedicated to their craft, working hard to be 100% for the combine. At the very least, you don’t expect him to be drinking — let alone drinking and then getting into the driver’s seat of a car.
I’m a big fan of Ogletree’s on-field performance and his upside is through the roof. He could be a sensational player in the NFL. Yet stuff like this makes you want to run a mile. Can you trust a guy who jeopardises his college career with a failed drugs test, gets arrested as a freshman on a misdemeanor theft-by-taking charge and now this?
The interview process at the combine just became a lot harder for Ogletree. He’s going to have to explain his actions to anyone who’ll listen. But how do you explain them? Some GM’s and coaches won’t be prepared to listen and will presumably strike him off their boards immediately. If it was a one-off, you might be prepared to see through this. With an ever growing list of incidents, he runs the serious risk of falling much further than his talent deserves.
I suppose the question is, would the Seahawks take a chance? He’s undoubtedly skilled, appears perfect for Seattle’s defense and could be a star at the next level. There just aren’t many linebackers with his range, coverage skill and ability to play the edge as a pass rusher. He’d be a dynamic counter to any team looking to use the read option against the Seahawks while also potentially improving the teams third-down defense. He’s not a perfect player and you’d like to see more consistent effort. Yet there’s still so much to like about his game.
It’s also worth noting that Seattle’s front office hasn’t completely avoided players with perceived character issues. Bruce Irvin and Marshawn Lynch were both considered ‘risky’ investments. The team also coveted Brandon Marshall and had a look at Kellen Winslow and Terrell Owens. John Schneider and Pete Carroll aren’t afraid of a challenge.
Then you compare him to a player like Khaseem Greene — a picture of professionalism, an engaging character and a good enough athlete to usurp Ogletree on a lot of draft boards. Given the choice of the two, I suspect the Seahawks might choose Greene. They’d have to really appreciate Ogletree’s upside to see past the red flags. Greene is a saint in comparison.
Many players have had incidents like this and moved on. There’s nothing to say this won’t be a much needed wake up call for Alec Ogletree. Sometimes a player needs an epiphany moment to get their act together. If he’s willing to learn from this latest mistake and begin to mature and take responsibility for his actions, rolling the dice could prove to be a calculated gamble. He’s a very talented football player. I wouldn’t strike him off my board yet, but I’d want to be one of the first teams to interview him in Indianapolis.
I was going to move Ogletree up to #13 in my updated mock this week, but I’m going to have to consider that idea. Round two isn’t out of the question now. The one saving grace might be that the Bengals — never a team to shirk away from a guy with character red flags — are in need of a 4-3 outside linebacker. With picks at #21, #37 and #53, Ogletree could be saved by Cincinnati. It’s a shame he might have to be saved by anyone.
The other saving grace will be the combine coming up so quickly after this news became public knowledge. Ogletree’s physical qualities should shine in Indianapolis. He could be one of the star’s of the show. If he turns up and dominates in a lot of drills, he’ll take back some momentum. He’s got a lot more work to do though to convince teams he can be trusted.
Players like Ogletree only ever fall because of issues like this and good teams have benefited in the past from overreactions to off-field concerns. It’s not like past and present Seahawks players haven’t dealt with similar issues. You could end up with a defining talent because of stuff like this. I’d recommend keeping an open-mind. As ridiculous as this news is on the players behalf, it could be a turning point. I hope so for his sake that proves to be the case. Ogletree has so much upside and potential, it’s still hard to imagine passing on him.
I started out the season with offense in drafting DeAndre Hopkins then I was looking Zache Ertz getting the big Receiver and blocking since we was a running team. I think defense needs more help. The offense took some time to get started but after the Chicago game they had open the playbook and was doing fine. That doesn’t mean we don’t need to help the offense.
I’m all in on Khaseem Green, want that aggresive speed of a player thats only going to get better. Maybe next year we ain’t talking about Seattles secondary but start talking about the linebacking squad in doing so we won’t need to worry about WILL spot like its always been. I think Zavier Goodsen would be a steal at pick 131 in the 5th round also to push Malcolm Smith who injuries leaves me with concern. I never considered Alec Ogletree because he wasn’t going to fall to us and I still don’t think he falls outta of the top 24.
What ya think Rob. Shariff Floyd 25 and Alec Ogletree at 55?
I don’t think it’ll happen but what if Kawan Short falls to pick 55?
One of reasons i was grabbing ROT Oday Aboushi was he’s a mauler on pass protection and i thought he was to good to pass uo at 55. What your opinion on him Rob and what kind of contract do we have with breno?
I was thinking it was 2years 5 million but for the life of me i can’t remember.
From what I’ve seen of late it looks like Floyd might be a top 5 pick.
I think Sharrif Floyd will be a top-five pick, possibly top-two. Unlimited upside, amazing off-field story and character. I suspect if they want Ogletree they’ll have to take him at #25. I really like Kawann Short but it’s not unbelievable he falls to round two because he’ll be 24 this year, he’s not a relentless pass rusher but has some technical skill. Aboushi another good player but personally I think Breno is one of the ten best right tackles in the league.
Prior to the 2012 season, Breno signed a two-year, $6 million contract w/ an additional $1 million available in incentives. His 2013 salary is $3.5 million and he will be a free agent in 2014. If he has a good offseason, I would expect the front office to begin negotiating an extension, something around the $4-5 million range that takes a large cap hit in the first year to keep space open for 2015-2016. It’s reasonable to expect he makes it to FA, but I can see Breno wanting to stay with Cable and get a deal done in Seattle.
I really like Breno, his aggressiveness as a run blocker is perfect for this system and his pass protection shortcomings are mitigated by Russell’s elusiveness. His physique fits what Cable looks for and with Carpenter on the roster the team already has a backup RT with some talent who could probably play in a pinch once he gets back into playing shape (I know, I know..). It’d be nice to have another stud tackle, but capwise it just doesn’t work to put that much into the position when you already have a franchise LT.
Pete came out and said the team didn’t have the locker room capable of taking in a talented headcase like Jimmy Smith a few years back. I highly doubt he’d make that same assessment now if it came down to Ogletree. Not only is the defense rock solid, but the linebacking corps has two young, ascending talents who have done a ton in comparison to any rookie, yet would probably be able to relate well to Alec. Take him I say!
I think Alec did this on purpose. He wanted to go later in round one to be on a better team:)
If he just wanted to do that, all he’d need to do is skip the combine and pro day workouts. Or he could pull a Burfict and just fail all his interviews and run slow. There are many ways to downgrade your stock.
Lol
After I read this my first impression was to say forget this guy….then I went and watched some film and said well let’s get to hasty. Lol
Anyone say Janoris Jenkins?
Hey Rob, are there any guys you like for the LEO in the later first round or later third round, and do you think we will target the position in the draft at any point due to Clemons’ injury?
I think it’s a possibility, Nathan. In terms of LEO’s in round one, I think Barkevious Mingo might be the most obvious LEO. Dion Jordan is a freak of nature and could play the position but he’ll be a top-ten pick. I don’t think Alex Okafor is quick enough at the snap to be a natural LEO – he’s better using his hands than relying on speed and lean. Quanterus Smith, Cornellius Carradine and Travis Long would’ve all been options but all three suffered similar serious injuries before the end of the season. I’m not sure you’re pinning your hopes on Clemons and a rookie getting back. Keep an eye on Corey Lemonier in round three, Michael Buchanan a little later than that, Devin Taylor, Armonty Bryant (not seen him myself but others like him) and Brendan Kelly at Wisconsin.
Thanks Rob, hadn’t thought of Lemonier.
No Margus Hunt as a LEO huh? Maybe as a 3tech. He would be alotta fun just to try at different positions. Hey hes fast and tall with a huge wing span, he could be a TE. Yeah I know, he’s an old guy 26? but he is going to be interesting to watch in the pro game.
He did not show well at the combine, and looks to be a situational player. Maybe develops into a starter. Maybe.
Colin must hbe predicting the future the combine hasn’t happended yet.
In discussing players that are potential draft picks, we don’t often comment on intellectual abilities because, among other reasons, it’s difficult to assess them with the limited info that the public has. But with Ogletree, don’t we have enough info to conclude that he doesn’t have the smarts to justify a first round pick? Here’s a guy that’s a week or two away from the biggest job interview he will have in his life, and he decides to prematurely “celebrate” by getting drunk, speeding, and weaving in-and-out of traffic. Some will think his potential justifies overlooking his shortcomings. In making our pick, I think there are too many other talented guys out there who have the smarts to focus on football at this critical point in their lives.
Makes you wonder is Seattle was going to choose at #25 between Ogletree and Greene, would this put Greene over the top??!
PC/JS? Probably…
We might replace Leroy Hill, a guy with some off field issues, with a younger version and with much more time for more off field issues. This is a plan, it still has to be resolved in court, but shit.
I think character is extremely important to PC (and I don’t mean Ruskell-type character). PC wants players who love the game, who will strive to compete to get better. I think he cares less (or has more understanding) of where many of these guys come from (Irvin, Lynch) and can look past that if their football-character is sound. In the case of Irvin and Lynch, it appears to be rock-solid. Wilson exemplifies the extreme case – not just because he is well-spoken and intelligent, but how he approaches the game, his work ethic and competitiveness.
If PC grades Ogletree as a football knucklehead (how he appears at the moment) he passes. It doesn’t matter how physically talented a player if they aren’t going to be available for games and/or practices; if they aren’t going to commit themselves to the game and to improving; if they aren’t going to buy-in to the team philosophy.
For similar reasons (although a different case) I think they never consider Harvin or Avril. These guys want the big bucks (Avril) and Harvin is a bona-fide diva.
I think they probably pass on Titus Young too. (I know – going out on a limb on that one.)
Very solid assessment there.
I don’t know Marshawn Lynch was way worse than olgtree in Buffalo, it gets glossed over now but he ran a lady over , left the scene and then refused to talk to cops for days afterwards. Granted lynch already had proven production and the cost was way less then olgetree would be in the first round. Brandon Marshell who they were after had already been suspended and there was talk his next issue might cause him to loser a year, again his production was proven and I don’t think he was going to cost a first rounder, or atleast I don’t think seattle was going to pay a first rounder. I don’t put Irvin in the same category as olgetree as he had shown he was living a clean life once he got into college and had proven he was willing to work hard for football his majopr issues were well in his past. Leroy Hill has had DUI issues and Domestic Violence issues and to date remains with the team, however he is on a cheap deal and is seen as the most replaceable part. I think if Carrol and Schnider liked him before this incident they will still like him now.
Hill’s contract is expiring, he won’t be back.
We have said that multiple times through out Hills career
Ogletree is now a total pass for me. His tape already looked like he didn’t care to put it all together, and I think the point about possessing a good “football-character” is exactly what Ogletree lacks. Give me Arthur Brown or Khaseem Greene over this guy any day, especially at a position like the WILL. Someone who will be a student of the game that may only possess above average athleticism.
Speaking of, I don’t understand where all the Arthur Brown hype went. Maybe because he had been talked up during the season it’s not as exciting, but I think he is a more physical player and more fluid in coverage than Greene.
I think you may be right. PC/JS put a lot in the interviewing process as well and I just don’t see this guy surpassing others they will be comparing him against, at least not at 25. If he falls like Burefict, maybe they’d take him on as a project but only if he impresses at least in some areas of the interview.
It will be interesting to see what teams decide to do with Ogletree now. Like you said, he’s clearly one of the most gifted athletes in this class but he has issues that will probably cause him to fall from the top half of the first round or even into the second now. I think the Seahawks would be one of the few teams that wouldn’t strike him off their board completely. If he gets passed the Bengals at 21, and the Rams at 22 (remember, Jeff Fisher took Janoris Jenkins last year – and it looks to have paid off pretty well so far) I think he could be an option.
Although what he did was terrible and stupid, I like what he does on the field better than Khaseem Greene because he doesn’t shy away from contact like Greene does at times (sometimes I feel like Greene stands and watches when it appears like one of his teammates is making the tackle – whereas Ogletree seems to always want a piece of the tackle weather one or two of of his teammates is already there or not). Ogletree appears to have better size and length than Greene does too.
I think the Seahawks will target a certain two or three players at 25 – I think Etrz, Patterson, Hopkins could all be in the mix on the offense side and Greene, Short, Ansah, and Olgetree (and Richardson if he were to somehow fall) are the likeliest possible targets if they go defense. And depending on how the QB’s get taken and if Seattle’s “guy” isn’t on the board at 25, I could see the Hawks trading down in to the top of the second and having Greene, Olgetree and possibly Hopkins still be on the board while gaining a high third round pick.
Pete and John have given chances to players Marshawn, Bruce, and Leroy so a player like Ogletree should still be on Seattle’s radar.
It would be a bummer to watch the whole first round only to see my Seahawks trade out, but after you said it, if we added a 3rd Rounder to the fold, we would be scary! That early 2nd rounder will have talent there, and an early 3rd would shift our ability to pick our board a bunch…2-2’s, and 2-3’s…could be worth it! We’ll see!
I highly doubt the Hawks would trade out of the 1st round altogether and not get a 1st in return in the future.
I looked it up. Let’s say KC wants to use their first round pick NOT on a QB.
Then they decide to trade up from the 2nd pick in R2 to our R1 pick at #25.
Using the NFL draft points chart, that is a value of ours: 720-(theirs)560=160…
So that 160 point value difference equals on the chart a R3 pick at the 22nd spot…
So the value shift from 25 down 9 spots isn’t really worth a R1 pick.
They would give us their 3rd R pick that would be either 1st or 2nd in the round.
That would add about a 100 point bonus to us in value…(if you strictly use their chart)
Basically it would be a move down around 9 places for an early 3rd R pick added.
They could make that work I’m sure, but only if PC/JS’s most desired players are gone by #25 to begin with. Why trade down for more picks, when we have 10, AND miss a guy you want, for one more pick?
We shall see!?!? Go Hawks!
I think they only go that route if they had 9 guys on their short list when their choice comes up at 25. If they had three guys on their super short list and one or more is left, I think they stay and take him there.
I can’t really see a team giving up a high second and high third to move up 9 spots. It’s hard to imagine for what player and what teams picking in the spots between 25 and #2 conditions would dictate that kind of move.
Teams will have to determine if he is just one of “those” guys who, at times, go too far with things and don’t make good judgements, or if he is just not a good person. I think there is definetley a solid difference. Can you trust the guy? Can you trust him with a bunch of guaranteed $$$? Something to think about.
At the same time…. he is arguably the most athletic player in this draft class. It is so much fun to watch tape of him!
I’m of the opinion that the new CBA makes potential knuckleheads less of a financial risk now. You can’t cripple a franchise like a Jamarcus Russell did with the raiders (though I think that’s a bit of karma there… )
Even though this is a blow in his stock, I’m sure if does fall out of rd1, he won’t get pass the teams picking in the top10 of rd2. Idiot decision but there’s too much talent there that some teams will overlook it quickly, assuming he keeps his nose clean from here on out.
I actually prefer Greene to Ogletree. I just see a lack of instinct and drive in Ogletree. He is good rushing the passer and decent in coverage, but everything else is so blah. He seems to give up on plays if they arent near him. He also seems to take to long to process whats happening in front of him. Maybe that would change if he was at will instead of mike.
I agree with lady t, there are things in ogletree’s tape that I really don’t like. He has an alarming habit of turning his shoulders at the point of contact to deliver a blow instead of wrapping up and driving thru the opponent. Also I think his motor runs hot and cold on far to many plays. I felt greenes effort was far more consistent in all the tape I watched. Suspect technique, inconsistent effort and questionable character and a very incomplete résumé vs outstanding character , outstanding production and leadership skills??? This one is a no brainier for me!
If there ever was a year for PC/JS to move up in the draft, this is it. Essentially, if we miss out on getting an elite 3 tech in free agency, the position becomes extremely important in the draft. Say Richardson is still on the board at 17 for the Steelers. IMHO, it is very likely that Dallas would take Richardson at 18, so the move up would likely happen there. The cost would be high, but not as high as coming up into the top 12 for Richardson.
My opinion is that the offense is fairly well established, but the inside pass rush needs to be improved. From a value standpoint, a WR will likely not do much in 2013 (or for 2 years) but a DT could make a huge difference to the team in the short term. also, getting a good slot CB is very improtant. This two moves alone could be enough to put the team over the top to the Superbowl.
You’d have to think a lot of teams would be happy to move back in the first round since there is such minimal separation of talent throughout the entire round.
It depends on which wide receiver or tight end we get. If we have a really good one it would make a difference from day one. Patterson is a game changer. Ertz will consistently be a target that will move the chains.
I like defense, I hope we go defense in the first round. But we have definitely traded off having a super receiver for other positions. Only one high round receiver chosen in 3 drafts.
I’d love to add a top talent at WR or TE but at the end of the day, I don’t think that would necessarily add to our offense overall. It’s still going to be built on a foundation of a smash mouth running game. It was exciting last year and it will be just as exciting this year even before you consider that LG Carpenter and improved Sweezy and Giacomini could add yards to the running totals for the year (how about 1500 Beastmode, 1000 Hulk, 400 Robinson, and 600 Wilson?).
While a great OLB or nickel corner or safety would also add to the strength of the defense, the biggest gain can be had by improving the pass rush. I don’t care if it comes via free agency, high end draft, middle of the draft, end of the draft, or even undrafted or CFL veteran; we need another high end LEO and a pocket crushing DT, even if they re-sign all of the DLine we had last year.
Ogletree would be worth a risk in R2, even though he is already a 3-time offender and seems better than 50/50 to be a total bust due to character issues. However, there is no way I would risk the R1 pick on him, not with players like Kawann Short, John Jenkins, John Hankins and Sylvester Williams possibly available. I also believe there is a chance Dion Jordan could fall because he is neither a 4/3 DE nor a 3/4 OLB, but is primarily a Leo/wide 9.
Totally agree with you on Ogletree. Like Rob said too, this is the most important job interview of his career, heck maybe the most important time in your life and you can’t go through a few months without screwing up? And a DUI at that. Which to me out of all the “character concerns” is the big one. Shows extremely poor judgement and disregard for yourself and others
Plus the fact that when the story broke and it was Ogletree’s name that popped up and I wasn’t that surprised I think says something. Dude needs to get it together. He might be a guy that doesn’t really put it together until his second or third team.
One comment I read here had a good point on that alot of times Ogletree seems to not read the play at hand very quickly, which seems to be more of an instinct/mental thing than a physical/talented thing. This is precisely why I like Arthur Brown. Arthur may not be as physically gifted as Ogletree or even Greene but his instincts and quickness to the play at hand are exceptional. Seems like Arthur would be the guy we would want to quickly read what Kaepernick and company will be pulling on us next year and beyond.
After watching just the ole miss tape, I must say I don’t see it! He made 1 good play in the whole game for a safety because the RB chose the wrong lane. He had an interception, but that was not because of his skill, but because the QB under threw in duress his WR by 10-15 yards!!
Now add in off field issues?? No way a R1 player IMO.
I will admit as Rob pointed out, I am NOT a scout, and have very little experience watching defensive tape, so maybe I’m missing something here… He rarely made a tackle, seemed to be walking around some, and got beat BAD for a few plays including a TD… GREENE!!!!!
Did you watch the other videos?
On the interception he’s sprinted 15-20 yards to make a leaping grab. There aren’t many linebackers in the NFL capable of doing that. The safety is a fantastic play where he takes away the inside cut and then buries the running back when he’s forced to bounce outside. He rushes the edge like a pure pass rusher for a sack. He forces a turnover on downs with one of the best read-reacts plays you’ll see all season on a fourth down. He sprints after a breaking receiver and chases him down for a tackle he had no right to make.
The Ole Miss game was one of the individual performances of the year in college football.
Sorry to offend and ruffle feathers…just didn’t seem that great…good. not great…
Like I said though, I’m not very skilled at watching Defensive tape or O-line tape… That is what is so cool about this site is learning more depth about the game at each position.
To be fair, I’ll go back and watch more. It just seemed like Greene was around the ball more…who knows?
If you call it a ‘performance of the year’ maybe it’s time for a beer and a re watch…
I don’t think any feathers are ruffled, it just should be noted that he played a damn good game, and credit is deserving.
You aren’t going to see many videos like that from other inside linebackers.
Paul,
I completely agree the tape was very underwhelming considering the hype. I dont think he is a first round talent at his current position. He fails to take on blockers and his stack and shed skills are very deficient. He plays exactly like a great safety and I could see him being a very successful one at the nfl level. On power running plays (SF) his difficiencies will be very evident. His athletic advantage will likely be masked slightly at the next level. His read and reaction speed seems slow to me. He will be exceptional in pass defense though and he could be very opportunistic if the line consistently keeps him clean.
Rob, what about Armonty Bryant? His video looks sick! Maybe less competition, and it is a highlight reel I think, but man alive!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPxEfFmRESg&feature=player_embedded
Have you seen this guy? Work for Seattle? Round?
I’ve not got access to his tape so I can’t offer much of a take unfortunately.
Did you watch this one posted here? He looks insane
Not trying to disrespect his abilities, but he looks like a man playing against boys — the caliber of the opposing players reminds me of some of the flag football teams I’ve played on. But, he sure looks athletic and has some pass rushing skills.
Bear in mind, it is a highlight reel…
This would be the last straw for me if I was a GM; there is no doubt that ogletree can play very well, but if there is a guy like Khaseem Greene on the board, who has had zero run-ins with the law, is the hardest worker in the draft, and is a good player to boot, Ogletree is off my board.
Agreed.
This draft is deep enough and without that defining talent, why take the guy with trouble when you can have is basic equal with no trouble and in fact has outstanding leadership qualities? Greene is the guy for me if they go LB.
I still think Ogeltree is worth the risk at 25. He’s a top 10 lock if not for off field concerns and probably a top 5 lock if he played a more valuable position.
I can’t help but think of the 2011 draft and CB Jimmy Smith. After PC/JS passed on Smith at 25, a seemigly ideal position/scheme/lenght fit, they explained that our locker room wasn’t ready for a player like that with off field concerns. Maybe now with a clear QB leader and dominate personalities on the D, our locker room could handle a player like Smith/Ogeltree.
excellent post. agree completely
I don’t see linebacker as being a premium position. We did fine with Wagner in the second round last year. There were at least two other players with equal abilities that we could have picked in the second round.
Besides our greater need is up front on the defensive line. Top DT and DE will most likely be chosen in the first round. Players chosen in later rounds are hard to predict if they will have success.
Free agency dictates things. If they go after a proven DT which isn’t unlikely, linebacker becomes a very real prospect. And they won’t fight the board if the BPA at #25 is a WILL.
I’d like to see them get a DT in free agency, draft a 1st or 2nd round DT, and bring in a late round DT prospect. I want a defensive line that is the envy of the NFL. When New England, Pittsburgh, and the New York Giants were winning multiple Super Bowls, they had some of the best defensive lines in the game. Defensive line is what separates elite defenses from good to great defenses.
Who’s going to play LEO?
Part of me wants to pass on this guy; we just got rid of one bad character at that position, do we want another one who is potentially going to be around awhile? Then again, I see characters like Randy Moss and Warren Sapp who were more or less able to keep their noses clean and provide spectacularly on the field. We have a good locker room. I trust Pete and John to suss out Ogletrees character and determine whether he can toe the line of good character.
Rob Rang is a local guy and has always seemed plugged in nationally, as well as having excellent knowledge of the Seahawks needs, but I am starting to wonder… His latest mock has Seattle taking Alex Okafor when Dion Jordan and Sharrif Floyd are still on the board. I hope Rob is not laying coin in Las Vegas on his own predictions.
Rang changes his pick for Seattle with almost every update, don’t take too much stock in it at this point.
Rob had Tim Ruskell down to a tee… knew what to look for. Like everyone else he’s struggling to second guess the PC/JS combo.
I see speed. I don’t see reliable tackling, play recognition, staying clean of blockers, constant energy. He seems like a player that if the task is clearly defined in front of him and can be solved by rapid transit, he’s good. If it requires thought, creativity or hard work, he’s not going to get it done. Now you add in the DUI — and we’re all susceptible to poor decisions, it’s just that this one is moronically timed — and I just have to say I don’t think he’s serious about the game of football.
Ask yourself this question….would you let this guy marry your daughter? JK
That might be setting the bar a little high, but your point is well-made. Here’s a guy that gets arrested as a Freshman for “theft-by-taking”, starts the 2012 season with a 4-game suspension for failing a drug test, then gets arrested for a DUI within 2 weeks of the combine. What’s the best predictor of future behavior? PAST BEHAVIOR.
Interesting that so many people are willing to turn a blind eye, saying that his on-the-field abilities outweigh his off-the-field problems. Is this the kind of guy that we want our kids to idolize? What kind of message does it send when we say he deserves a 4th chance because he may be a really good player? What’s his behavior likely to be when he has a few $$ in his pocket?
I don’t know him, maybe he will turn his life around. But, there are too many other talented players out there who are working hard to get to the NFL. Why would we want to denigrate their effort by rewarding someone who seems to be unwilling or unable to make the correct choices in his life? Life is all about the choices we make — no one makes us steal, take drugs, or drink and drive …
Free Agency Strategy:
At this point, I’d be planning on backing a truck full of money to Melton’s house and a pickup full for Fred Davis and then pick up a veteran QB cut by another team for close to the league minimum. If Melton’s number climbs out of reach, I’d go Randy Starks or Desmond Bryant. With another option at QB on the roster, they could then trade Flynn to move up picks.
If they could accomplish those, they’d have more freedom to go Leo, WR, OLB, or even BPA in the draft.
You should check out this article by more Seahawks faithful!
http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analysis/2013/2/15/3992570/packers-release-charles-woodson-green-bay-model-john-schneider
Very smart read! That being said, I would totally be willing to trade the salaries of Branch and Jones for Melton!
Yeah, I read that model when it was originally posted and when it was posted again recently. I think it is an interesting analysis of the trends that happened based on the people they found to add to GB over that period. There are some roles that are hard to fill like franchise QB, double team required sack threat, shutdown corner, game changing TD weapons, etc that can easily evade a master plan done to perfection. So while it is an interesting useful guide to a success model, it is not a binding plan that they should feel married to.
The biggest asset that Seattle has that GB doesn’t is the richest owner in the NFL. He allows them to have more flexibility in their contracts such as heavier cash up front, the glitz they can put on recruiting trips, and the little niceties like workout facilities, planes, food, etc. This plus the lack of a Washington state income tax help the team compete very well despite the long travel required due to the team’s geographic location (a situation that is extremely detrimental to the Mariners). Of course, they must resist the urge to become the Redskins, Eagles, or Jets who have destroyed their team cap structure but I see Seattle as having played the best of both worlds very well. They’ve employed their wealth in the little things while keeping the contracts extremely team friendly.
I’d like to see a healthy Jones as part of the rotation if possible but a new guy would be my priority first. I wonder if Mebane and Red are in the hot seats to bring the shutdown run defense back and demand more double teams that will lead to more pressures and sacks. Sando (ESPN NFL West Blog) did a great analysis of the dropoff that happened during the season in run defense.
I can’t see the Bengals going for this guy, even though they are the Bengals. They tried the talented LBer with off the field problems from Georgia and Odell Thurmon crapped himself out of the league.
Honestly, I don’t know what exactly you see in Ogletree that stands out so much. He looks the part and moves well and can crash into space, but beyond a couple of stand-out plays a game, he looks pretty pedestrian. I’m not trying to knock your scout skills but he tends to wait for the play to come to him in the run game, and isn’t the best linebacker I’ve seen this year in coverage either. His teammate, Jarvis Jones shows up huge on tape, and is the true standout of that defense. The guy is a solo wrecking crew.
Ogletree doesn’t seem instinctive, and plays uphill in a reactive manner. Leroy Hill’s college tape is what a WILL should look like. He’s obviously not the same guy anymore and won’t be back, but a 1st round pick for Ogletree seems like a reach and one that this regime wouldn’t make under any circumstance.
PCJS just don’t value linebackers the way other teams do. Wagner being the exception that proves the rule.
Ogletree has had some big games, I don’t think we can underplay that. Sometimes I think there’s a danger of expecting too much. The only 4-3 linebacker I’ve ever watched who flashed consistently was Aaron Curry. Sometimes it’s more important to see beyond that and picture what a player could be. I suspect had Ogletree been playing weakside backer in a 4-3 he would’ve had an insane season. Instead he played MLB in the 3-4, a role that doesn’t suit his skill set.
Could you elaborate a little bit on why Curry “flashed consistently” yet you and Kip were not fans when we drafted him? I’m curious what the difference is now, that’s all.
My issue was how unnatural his role was at Wake Forest compared to what it would be in the pro’s. He played so deep, but not in a coverage sense. He let everything play in front of him. And he managed to have an impact by physically being superior. Yet there were examples of a lack of instinct, feel, recklessness. Nobody could ignore the physical aspects to Curry’s game, I just felt like at the next level when he was going to be asked to do so much more, he’d struggle. But if you dig out 2008 tape on Wake Forest you’ll see Curry making ferocious hits and looking amped. I think this is the complaint with Ogletree — he doesn’t look enough like a ‘beast’. Curry was a beast and it didn’t translate.
Thank you. I personally am not concerned with Ogletree’s “beast look” because the man can hit- plain and simple. The hit he puts on Eddie Lacey at the goal line in the SEC Championship game is a thing of beauty, and his coverage skills are above average. I don’t like his lack of aggressiveness when it comes to taking on blocks, but he’s such an athlete I think he would be an extraordinary player at the WLB spot. He does seem to lack effort at times, but you can see the potential.
Definitely.
If you look at the last decade plus three years, the teams with some of the best defensive lines won multiple Super Bowls. The years New York G won they had the best pass rushing defensive line in the league. Pittsburgh’s defensive line stuffed the run and opened things up wide for their pass rushers. When New England was winning multiple Super Bowls, their defensive line was anchored by Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest. You have to have at least a couple of elite defensive line guys to have an elite defense. We’re lacking on the defensive line.
Linebacker like Ogletree is nice. But you can find good LB candidates in later rounds. I want a strong focus on the defensive line unless Chance Warmack falls to us. Then I want us to draft him.
Totally agree.
Waste a first rounder on LB when we got more desperate needs in DL. I think our DL is the worse in this division and we need more talents both inside and outside to over-taken the 9ers since we are so close now. The game has always won on the trenches and LB is just a luxury pick if your DL is frauded.
I don’t expect JS to take his chance with the draft and will pick up some DL in FA, and I just hope and my fingers cross we don’t re-sign perenial 6 games handicap Jones. In that case, I would prefer we pick up a joker TE to pair with Miller and give Wilson more weapon to work with.
It won’t be a waste if the linebacker fills a hole and starts for the next 8-10 years. Yes, DT is a need. But you don’t reach to fill a need for the sake of it. They don’t ‘have’ to draft a defensive lineman in round one and let’s remember, free agency will also play a part.
I just can’t wrap my head around the idea of a 3-4 linebacker in the first. I’ll live with it given we have a later first round pick. I would much prefer to see us draft a higher value position. WLB has not been a weakness in our scheme.
You could also argue WLB hasn’t been a need for the team and the value hasn’t matched up in the draft. Perhaps both issues make the position an area of greater importance this year?