A Seattle-type of receiver
It’s very easy to see why the Seahawks liked Amara Darboh.
“He was one of those guys that we were laying in the weeds on him a little bit… They give you so much information on him and he checks so many boxes that he was one of those guys that you didn’t really have to spend a ton of extra time on.”
Those were the words of John Schneider shortly after the third round concluded.
When you run through ways to define a Seahawks receiver, Darboh ticks all the boxes:
— Gritty backstory
— Battled adversity
— Good route runner
— Willing blocker
— Good awareness when working back to the QB
— Ample size
He’s also clearly the best overall athlete they’ve drafted at receiver. His SPARQ score was a 127. PauL Richardson was previously the best athlete they’d drafted with a 118. All of Seattle’s drafted receivers apart from Kenny Lawler have been in the 111-118 range for SPARQ. That translates to the 50-60th percentile range in terms of NFL athleticism.
Darboh is in the 84th percentile.
According to SPARQ he’s the most athletic receiver they’ve had since Ricardo Lockette. Not the quickest or the most sudden — but the most athletic overall. Will he be tasked to fill Lockette’s shoes? Someone who can make the occasional big play on offense but more importantly provide an immediate intensity on special teams?
There are similarities between the two. Lockette is 6-2 and 211lbs compared to Darboh’s 6-2 and 214lbs. Lockette’s forty time (4.41) is marginally quicker than Darboh’s (4.45). There’s a three inch difference between their broad and vertical jumps.
The Seahawks spread their targets around but everyone knows Doug Baldwin and Jimmy Graham are going to get the lions share. Jermaine Kearse, Paul Richardson and Tyler Lockett are going to eat up most of the rest (health permitting). Darboh’s primary focus in 2017 could be special teams and trying to recreate everything Lockette brought to the roster despite his minimal role on offense.
So what do you see on the field?
On occasions he was let down by an inaccurate quarterback at Michigan. The Ohio State game was a classic example of this. It felt like he was constantly having to adjust to catch the football. Throws behind, throws too high or low. Initially he showed great concentration to haul in a couple of circus catches on poorly thrown balls but eventually his luck ran out.
On one route he perfectly dissected the Ohio State secondary to find a soft spot in the zone. He was wide open — but the throw was high and wide to his left. He tried to adjust and got both hands on the ball but it fell incomplete. On the next drive Wilton Speight tossed an ugly interception with a minute to go in the third quarterback. Ohio State rapidly turned the pick into seven points on offense and a straight forward 17-7 lead suddenly turned to 17-14 in a flash.
How would they respond? A quick three-and-out after the Speight threw an easy slant on third down behind Darboh for an incompletion.
The good news is Darboh was clearly the go-to receiver for most of the game. He had a handful of vital third down conversions and the play of the game from a Michigan perspective.
Ohio State had a seven point lead in overtime and it was fourth down for Michigan. Fail to score a touchdown here and it’s game over. Darboh was being covered by this years #11 overall pick Marshon Lattimore. He absolute destroys him with a clever side-step to the outside before firing inside on a slant. He creates immediate separation and gets open for the touchdown. It’s not a great throw (low and awkward) but he brings it in with two hands.
If he can make it look that easy against Lattimore — Darboh has a shot in the NFL. Any scout who was banging the table for Darboh over the last few months probably went to that tape over and over again.
What else did he show in the three Michigan games I watched for this piece?
Concentration is the thing that stands out — catching the awkward throws and the savviness he shows in running routes. He isn’t particularly sudden and he won’t create separation sprinting downfield on a go-route. He wins with instinct and technique and his route transition is very good.
Working back to the quarterback is so important in Seattle’s offense, especially on the scramble drills. Darboh gets nice depth on his routes and reads the situation before reacting to provide his QB with a target when the play breaks down. This is a big plus for the Seahawks.
He had a fantastic route working the seem vs Illinois. On this occasion the throw by Speight was perfect, dissecting three defensive backs. Darboh lined up in the slot, sprinted to the gap in the zone coverage and made a difficult catch in traffic while anticipating a big shot.
He sells the deep route well before breaking it off to work inside. Nice depth on his routes allows him to assess the best way to get open.
For Seattle’s offense it was also good to see him motion across the line (ala Doug Baldwin) on the option pass (although he was levelled by a defender on one of these vs Northwestern).
He also had some spectacular grabs at the sideline, showing off excellent body control to torque and make the completion while getting both feet in bounds.
There are some weaker areas too. There was very little evidence of any YAC potential. He’s not a sudden athlete and he’ll need to battle and be physical to get open at the next level as a consequence. His best routes were down the seem and the inside slant — he’ll need to find a way to be more effective down the field and perhaps try and become a bit quicker to nail the intermediate routes.
What does the future hold for him? The Seahawks can save $5m by cutting Jermaine Kearse in 2018 and they might feel that’s a necessary move to save money. If that happens — he has a year to show he can take on Kearse’s semi under-appreciated role. He’s a valuable blocker in the run game and while 2016 was a down season for Kearse — he’s had some of the biggest catches in franchise history.
It’s easy to look at Darboh’s size and physical profile and imagine this is a case of planning ahead. For now, he needs to show he can be something akin to Ricardo Lockette and help Seattle’s special teams take a step forward in 2017.
Shaquill Griffin — lot’s of potential but lot’s to learn
Seattle’s turnover numbers are shrinking. In 2016 they had 19 takeaways, one less than bottom dweller San Francisco and good for 22nd in the NFL overall. Let’s compare that to previous years:
2012 — 31 takeaways (#5)
2013 — 39 takeaways (#1)
2014 — 24 takeaways (#20)
2015 — 23 takeaways (#16)
2016 — 19 takeaways (#22)
It’s not a surprise that the numbers have fallen. The peak occurred when Seattle was on the rise and teams didn’t really have an answer for their defense. By week two of the 2014 season, Philip Rivers drew up the blueprint to slow down and limit the unit with a highly conservative, short passing, zone-busting antidote.
We may never see 39 takeaways again in a season with this group because teams just don’t test them in the same way anymore. And in fairness, they don’t need 35-40 turnovers. They do need more than 19, however, if they want to be better in 2017.
This draft class seems to be something of an attempt to rectify the situation.
For starters, the best way to create more opportunities for the secondary is to improve the four-man rush. Malik McDowell should provide some help in that regard and the upgraded D-line rotation should keep Seattle’s pass rush fresh and relatively consistent.
The second plan at a revival seems to be better depth in the secondary and adding playmakers.
Here’s the top-four defensive backs in college football last season in terms of passes defended:
#1 Tedric Thompson — 23
#2 Ahkello Witherspoon — 22
#3 Rashard Fant — 20
#4 Shaq Griffin — 19
Seattle drafted #1 and #4 on the list.
Thompson and Griffin shared 11 interceptions in 2016 and 31 PBU’s.
It’s probably not a coincidence they’re now both in Seattle.
There’s not a ton of Griffin tape available on Youtube. You can see him against Arkansas State and Michigan and quite frankly, watching either game is a bit of a waste of time. The UCF defensive scheme, if you can call it that, is one of the worst you’ll ever see. I can’t work out what they were trying to do. It’s maddening.
Hugh Millen did a good job summing up the problem on 950 KJR:
“I watched this kid. Good body, good frame, runs well. I think he’s been coached poorly.
He gives up the inside too much. The way he plays press, he has his hands-up at the line of scrimmage. Well, the Seahawks teach ‘hands-down’. He’s head-up or outside, why is he doing that? Seahawks teach ‘inside-eye’. There are a lot of things they’re going to do with him from a techniques standpoint.
He doesn’t process route concepts in front of him, he gets beat where he is stuttering his feet, and you ask ‘why is he doing that?’ He doesn’t understand how the slot receiver is impacting him even though he is covering the outside receiver. So there are a lot of signs to me that he doesn’t have the polish mentally about playing corner.
I think what Seattle feels like is ‘we’ll teach him the Seahawks way’. There are a lot of things he’ll do [differently] in their channeled outside coverage, like, he’s going to turn his ass to the QB, and he’s going to be playing inside-out, trying to stay on top, and he’ll never have to worry about deciphering those concepts.
So there are a lot of reasons for them to feel that this guy can play their brand of cornerback.”
Here’s what I saw watching the two UCF games. Time and time again Griffin would line up way-off in coverage, offering this enormous cushion to the receiver. He’d consistently give up a free release then show the receiver inside inviting him to attack this huge zone of open space. It made the safety isolated and asked so much of the cornerback to recover and play the ball.
The best way to describe it is it’s the polar opposite of the way Colorado’s much more effective defense plays. Colorado challenges the cornerback to win at the red-line narrowing the strike zone for the receiver and putting the advantage on the playmaking free safety (Tedric Thompson) to play the ball.
UCF’s safety had no chance. They were caught in no-man’s land. And it’s virtually impossible to judge Griffin based on this tape because of the way he’s asked to play.
Furthermore — you see blown coverages, DB’s running into each other, bad angles from the safety. The secondary is a mess.
In the Arkansas State game Griffin gives up one of the worst touchdowns you’ll ever see. He offers a free release on an inside slant. The receiver just runs into the space between the safety and cornerback, it’s an easy pitch-and-catch and the WR just saunters in for the score. They never even give themselves a chance.
There are a couple of occasions where he really flashes as an athlete. On one free-release over the middle he makes up so much ground to undercut the route and the play the ball. On a deep ball he ‘ran the route’ as you often see with Richard Sherman and made a nice PBU. He can hit and his frame is quite stout for a taller, longer cornerback.
It’ll be really interesting to read the first few reports from training camp on how’s he picking up the technique because this will probably be a complete ‘start from scratch’ situation. It’s hard to be optimistic about his chances of starting as a rookie but he is a 4.38 runner at 6-0 and 194lbs with an 11-0 broad and a 38.5 inch vertical. He’s a special athlete. Hopefully that will give him a leg-up in the pro’s.
Looking at their previous draft picks at cornerback — Griffin is by far the most athletic they’ve added. It’s no coincidence he’s also their earliest pick at cornerback too. The potential is enormous in terms of physical profile. This coaching staff has worked its magic on DB’s in the past. It might take a little time for Griffin to be in a position to start but when he gets there, he has the upside to be a very interesting player.
Per Pauline: “I’m told the Seattle Seahawks are overjoyed with their draft, as seven of the players they selected graded as first- or second-rounders on their board.”
http://draftanalyst.com/2017-nfl-draft-end-notes
Really excited about the potential for Griffin. It is amazing to me he can be #4 in the country in passes defended despite all the poor coaching/scheme that has been mentioned by Rob and Hugh.
Makes you wonder what his stats could have been in Colorado/Washington’s secondary?
Tasked to fill Lockette’s shoes? In 2017? sure. In 2018? I hope not. I hope he is ready to step into that Jermaine Kearse role in ’18 after we cut Kearse to save cap space.
The thing I keep coming back to Rob is Darboh didn’t even really know what football was until he started playing it in high school, I believe his senior year. He then played about three years of football in college, while there for four years. What is my point? As John said in his presser:
>Amara Darboh is young in football but he looks like a professional wide receiver.
Some sites pre-draft call his hands average (fans of his college team proclaim otherwise) but he’s been catching footballs for what, five years tops? Most WR’s in the NFL have been catching footballs since they were in Pop-Warner football (5 years old). Almost all had at least played multiple years of WR in high school before playing more in college. He has at least four fewer years of ball catching than almost all WR’s in the NFL. It’s very possible most WR’s in the NFL played in Pop-Warner through high school (13 years) before playing two-to-four more years in college. Yet Darboh only has ~4 years experience.
That excites me, because after watching his film and reading up on him I believe there is still a higher ceiling there than Kearse has. I believe he could not only replace Kearse but be an upgrade over him.
Let’s have Darboh fill that Lockette role this year and then next year he replaces Kearse and Moore can get promoted off the practice squad (6’1, 220lbs, 4.35-4.42 speed, 26 bench reps) to fill that Lockette role that Darboh had filled the year prior.
All sounds good, especially if my Tanner McEvoy shows up and has taken nice steps forward in his development so he makes the 53 and is a real nice weapon this season. I want our own Terrell Pryor.
When I watched his tape last week he actually reminded me of a slightly bigger Kearse. Not a blazer and not real sudden, but crisp into his routes and a very smooth runner, almost a glide. He was very effective running the slant and looks like Michigan went to well repeatedly on that. Hope the hawks are watching as I’ve felt for a long time it’s underutilized in our O. High hopes for this kid as a chains mover with the occasional splash play or circus catch
Oline based off what pete said on radio today
LT Joeckel – Fant – Senior
LG Odhi – Aboushi
C Britt – Hunt – Roos
RG – Glow Aboushi Roos
RT – Ifedi Pocic Senior
Funny you say that because what I heard and the SEA-Twitter talking heads heard was that JS thinks Joeckel is at his best at LG and Pete’s comments imply Fant will get the first look at LT. Now granted that is going to happen no matter what because Joeckel is still recovering from his injury but it sounds like they are high on Fant, expect him to make the biggest leap from last year of the players on the team and it is his job to lose.
I don’t doubt that’s what he said, but I really don’t like that lineup at all. They need to quit playing musical chairs with the line. That lineup you posted; the only returning starter in their 2016 position would be Britt. Talent isn’t their problem, lack of experience and continuity is the problem.
I’m really hoping for this to be the starting line:
Fant-Joeckel-Britt-Ifedi-Pocic
This line provides 3 returning starters (Fant, Britt, Ifedi), and allows them to continue to master their positions. Joeckel is an immediate upgrade over Glowinski, and Pocic should be an immediate upgrade over Gilliam. There’s no need to get cute.
I believe that line can be a competent line right out of the gate, unlike the train wreck experiments we’ve witnessed the last two seasons. Too much deviation and/or shuffling around from that (like the scenario where Britt is the only returning starter to remain in their 2016 position), will again result in early season growing pains and close losses in games they should’ve won. Time will tell if the braintrust has actually learned from their mistakes. The selection of Pocic is a good sign. Now let the guys gel fellas.
I don’t believe there’s any way Pocic outperforms Glowinski as a starter in 2017. I always thought Glowinski should have stayed at RT, too. Glad he’s back there. I think he’s going to win that competition at RG and have a solid year there. I think the team is better with Glowinski at RG and Ifedi at RT than it is with Ifedi at RG and Pocic at RT. My $.02.
Glowinski “should have stayed” at Right Guard (not RT).
Agreed
Chances are there will be three returners on the o-line. Fant, Britt and Ifedi. While I hope that Glow can win the job I think it will be tough with the money spent on the free agents and big competition from the two rookies and Odhiambo.
What is a best case scenario? I think the Odhiambo can back up both LT and LG while Pocic can back up center, RT and RG. That is, of course, if they do not win the starting job.
The next part of the best case scenario? To be specific, the very best case scenario is if the two free agents look great and get beat out late in the season. Then Aboushi and Joeckel still get big free agent deals in 2018 and the Seahawks get comp picks while retaining the less expensive players who beat them out.
Do not forget that every year some UDFA make the team. I am betting on Roos getting a chance and competing with Hunt and Glow for the last OL spot. Sure would be nice if one of these guys could also long snap.
In any case, it sure looks better than 2016.
That isn’t quite what I heard.
He said Joeckel would play at LT & LG as would Odhiambo.
He said Fant was “their guy” at LT.
He mentioned Glowinski moving back to his college position at RG.
Also that Ifedi was at RT.
He didn’t mention Pocic or Aboushi from what I heard.
As of this moment it sounded like,
LT Fant
LG Odhiambo
C Britt
RG Glowinski
RT Ifedi
I would be fine with that OL. I would hope Joeckel and his $8 mil price tag beats out Rees at LG however. I also think Pocic and Glow will be a great battle at RG.
You for sure need to re listen to what pete said.
RT is solidified as Ifedi with Pocic pushing him in competition.
RG Glow is moving back there to his 1st position/college position with Oday behind him (we are adding Roos even though unmentioned)
C Britt (assuming hunt backup)
LG they are incredibly high on Odhiambho and they like Joeckels ability to play here to but realistically if you think we are payhing him 8 mil to be a backup idk what to say.
LT Joeckel with Fant learning and backup.
But can Darboh match Kearse’s output when it comes to OPI calls? #aargh
Rob, watch Darbohs highlight video (the chronological one); he does have some RAC ability, and while he’s not a fast-twitch athlete like Harvin, or a long-speed freak like Lockette, he is much stronger than those two in his legs and torso. Darboh is fairly quick, very strong, and has decent long speed. He’s sneaky-fast, and really excels at faking outside then turning in–or visa versa–reminding me of a slightly shorter, much more physical Sidney Rice.
He fits Bevells apparent ideal–smack between Kearse and Rice: 6-1, 215, 4.47 40. Like Rice, he excels at one-handed catches and sideline tip-toe catches; unlike Rice, he appears unfazed by contact/hitting the turf hard. He’s a cross between Tate, Rice, and Kearse; everything Chris Harper was supposed to be.
I watched the Ohio State game live and this kid was a beast–don’t know how I forgot about him! I’m really excited to see him in Preseason!
He’s more Big Mike Williams at his best than Lockette–stronger and tougher and harder to knock off his feet than Lockette, though slower than their respective 40 times would indicate, but much faster and quicker than BMW.
I haven’t watched the highlights, just put the video at the top for people who wanted to watch them. Based my thoughts on three games I was able to find.
I’m not sure these are Bevell’s ideals either. I think at the heart of everything is the man at the top. This is his project. His vision.
I watched a chronological highlight video I found on YouTube–not sure if it was the one you posted. Probably was.
As to whether the height/weight/40/whatever is Bevells ideal or PC’s, I’m not sure; it just struck me that Seattle has ignored WR’s of larger size/different attributes, and sought out guys like T Slavin who all fit a couple molds; kind of like TEF for Oline guys. Don’t know if it’s Bev or Carroll, but I think they are looking for two types of WR’s plus the special guys like Lockett and PRich; 6′-6’1, 195-220, 4.45, great blockers, great route runners, sneaky not straight-line fast; and 6-2, 210-215, with sideline tiptoe skills.
Passes defensed for a corner can be a double-edged stat: it could mean the corner got picked on a lot because he was a step slow etc. Hope this kid can learn quick, sounds like he’s got a long way to go. An athlete, but not a football player yet. Hope he isn’t to this DB draft class what Paul Richardson is to his….
Yeah I think if Darboh is the next Ricardo Lockette, that would be a huge disappointment. I expect him to be a poor mans Julio Jones. Big bodied strong and fast, able to make plays deep. Reliable hands and toe tapping sideline ability.
I see it in the highlights. He’s still developing, I think he’s going to be really good for us. My hope
Is that he blows kearse out of the water with his run blocking ability. Anything less would be a disappointment.
Yeah, it’s so funny bringing Ricardo Lockette’s name up when discussing Darboh. Go back and look at Lockette’s draft profile, or his college experience. He went to something like Idaho Valley State, or some such, and hardly played WR. He couldn’t have been more raw at the position, completely unlike Darboh.
But thinking of Lockette reminds me of his favorite play — On the Beast Quake run, you can see him sprinting ahead of Marshawn and blocking on three separate occasions. That was awesome.
When i think of lockette all i think is the Super Bowl 49 interception…
I choose to remember the good, like reaching over a defender against CAR I believe to haul in a TD from Wilson, after being passed back to by Lynch. Or leveling kick returners less than a second after touching the ball. Or yes, clearing out a couple different defenders on BeastQuake 2.0.
Lockette was good in a very limited role. I hope that Darboh’s play far surpasses Lockette, so he can both contribute consistently on Offense (taking Kearse snaps) while also doing ST coverage.
That was Beast Quake two, and I think it was four blocks (even though he did not really need the last one!) and an amazing demonstration of speed and effort.
I believe the Darboh/Lockette comp was for the upcoming season only and not the future after that. It makes sense – Darboh isn’t likely to take many snaps away from the established receivers in 2017. Spot duty as a receiver and carving out a valuable role on ST is what the goal should be for him in 2017. Anything more would be a bonus.
Griffin is essentially what Melifonwu would have been just better value. Both are really athletic with a lot of technique issues that need to be cleaned up before they can play outside CB in the NFL.
Griffen is faster than Obi but smaller. He plays more aggressively though.
Thought the same thing Leo. When watching tape of both Quill and Obi it’s hard not to think ‘WTH kind of defense is this?’. Both are supreme athletes who need to be rebuilt from the ground up, as far as learning the Hawks LOB way/technique.
different player, but i read an interesting comment from Pete Carroll about Malik McDowell
said he played last year with a high ankle sprain and that he loves football.
Hope he loves football because you can’t last too long in the trenches if you don’t.
And a high ankle sprain would be a good reason why he “got lazy” last year and took plays off on a real bad team
Malik’s play visibly slowed down in the second half of games. This is more of a conditioning issue than laziness. It’s difficult to maintain the level of conditioning needed to play 60+ snaps dealing with a high ankle sprain.
Go back and look at the offenses that they faced in 2013..there’s a reason they had so many turnovers. We’ve never had as easy of a schedule since. We obviously aren’t the same team rushing the passer either.
Rob,
If Shaquill Griffin is the starter (in the place of Shead), do you think Seattle would change their coverage scheme to play Cover 3 exclusively? Seattle does not seem to hide the fact that they either play press or Cover 3. And it does not appear that Griffin played or knows how to play press the Seahawk way. Also, in their post draft conference, when PC and JS were asked if it matters whether Griffin did not play press, they said that it did not matter. Knowing that they are going to play Cover 3 could also be the reason why they chose to draft so many safeties.
The Hawks already do play cover 3 exclusively but throw in base/cover 1 which is what you mean by (man) press and cover 2.
The Hawks imo have been sandbagged from using cover 3 press, because of new PI rules, after winning the SB.
Now they play a weaker Cover 3 buzz..which is why Sherm will act to press and then quickly bail or just bail.
Now they plan to go to a nickel strong or 4-2-5 in where a third S as opposed to cb is used.
So, I like this draft class. I think there are some stars in the making. I’m high on malik due to his tape from 2 years ago. He is exactly what we need. And if he needs others to be good for him to go all out, what better line is there besides maybe Huston? Rams? So that is promising and I’m giving him the PCJS benefit of the doubt.
Darboh is one who I watched mid season just by chance and was blown away. I kept saying, just throw it to darboh and your offense will move. He abused the secondary all game. They kept running the ball and getting stuffed on 1st and 2nd down and then would just throw his way for a 14 to 38 yard game kinda deal. I was stoked to get him.
Shaq, I haven’t seen any football of but from the way you guys are talking I’m happy with the pick. Would have preferred we get someone we talked about but again, we don’t know all, rob might, vol 12 right behind him, but for me it was just familiarity thing. So if he can polish up and get tutelage under PCKR and then sherm earl and kam then we could have a really athletic CB on our hands.
It will be interesting to see how rookie mini camp and tc goes for some of these guys.
OL im predicting a starting show of
LT- Fant, luke, senior
LG- Odhi, Luke(if able to play in tc probably start here), roos
C- Britt, Pocic, roos
RG- Pocic, Aboushi,, Glow, roos
RT- Ifedi, Senior, pocic
I think Ifedi is best suited to RT where he can use his strengths, Pocic they are high on and he knows the position so I think he can start quickly and make the right side of the line monstrous, Britt no question starter, Odhi they rave about and I was happy for his spot starts last year besides the toe stomp on russel(but he is used to moving his left foot back first so I give him a pass and put him on his natural side)- Luke has a chance to start here if healthy but mid tc… maybe even late TC depending on rehab, Fant has the athleticism for the position and they are saying he is making great strides at the position. call me a dreamer but I really would love to have found our Franchise LT in a guy the league thought nothing of while he came from no background of OL play. Would absolutely love it.
This is my projection:
LT… Fant
LG…Joeckel
C….Britt
RG..Glowinski
RT…Ifedi
I think they will keep 8 total OL and the back-ups will be:
1. Rees
2. Pocic
3. Hunt
If they have Pocic and Rees active on Sundays, I see Hunt being inactive for all the games. Pocic and Rees are more versatile and Pocic can play center, too.
I could be wrong on Hunt, but I don’t see Aboushi staying on the team if he doesn’t win RG (keeping Hunt over him saves some money).
I see a guy like Roos on the PS.
So much of this depends on the development of everyone and this team is now in much better position to withstand an injury or two, too.
Carroll has not spoken of Hunt in a while, it seems like he could be the odd man out soon, since he only plays C.
Aboushi has multi position versatility, and so I think he stays to potentially backup RT.
+1 Hunt good as gone. Should be another ghost roster member, able to be called on if needed.
They usually keep 9….
Hunt= PS if he clears waivers.
I think they take Shelton in next years draft (UW) to back up Pocic.
I agree Bobby about the starting OL of Fant, Joeckel, Britt, Glowinski, Ifedi and that could be our most solid group in years if Ifedi and Fant make the expected year #2 improvements.
I think they keep Pocic, Aboushi, Roos and Rees as the backups for 9 total. The 9th spot will be between Roos and Hunt likely.
I concur
The DBs and OL from this draft lead to an interesting discussion. One of Seattle’s strengths relative to the League is the ability to find starters/pro bowl/all-pro in later rounds and develop them. This gives them a competitive advantage.
In contrast, Seattle has drafted more offensive linemen in the Pete Carroll/John Schneider era than any other team in the NFL and this use of draft capital (including 3 firsts and 2 seconds) has produced very poor results. This has put Seattle at a competitive disadvantage. So, what is the problem; talent evaluation or talent development or maybe scheme? Cable has a great reputation among other line coaches. I have been told that Seattle’s version of the ZBS is a bit more complex than average but I don’t know if that is true.
One thing that Seattle seems to do more than other teams which might be responsible for slow player development is the constant shuffling of positions. I am not encouraged after hearing Pete Carroll talk about the line this morning. Britt may be the only starter in the same position as last year. And last year Gilliam was the only starter in the same position from the year before. I really believe that this shuffling limits the opportunity for players to learn their position to the best of their individuals ability and limits their opportunity to become familiar with the guys playing alongside them and increase the group effectiveness of the unit.
Fant & Britt will be at the same positions as last year with Glowinski & Ifedi going back to the positions they were drafted to play.
Glow may start the season at RG, but I would bet he doesn’t finish there.
We may have drafted more OL than any other team but we really haven’t “missed” on too many that were available when we drafted them. I believe we draft so many because we’ve “hit” on so many other guys on other positions that we’ve had to pay them big money to keep them. NOW…we have no money left for good O-lineman in FA and are hoping we hit on some in the draft. We might be drafting a bunch of O-lineman in the future too because of this.
I’d agree but moving forward kam, sherm, bennett, avril, maybe even Earl….are any of these five going to command their current salaries? Maybe. Are all five? I sure hope not or Seattle is going to get into cap hell with old, injured players at the expense of building their roster.
In the future, I could easily see paying Olinemen now that cap space is going to free up with aging D players.
Can we put the “more draft capital” talk to bed? Yes, Seattle has drafted quite a few, but that’s if you go pick count. However, what was the value of those picks? If one was to use the Johnson chart and look at the value of each spot chosen, I’m willing to bet that we’ve spent less than a lot of teams. A 7th round pick might count when counting picks, but is nowhere close to the draft capital of a 5th overall pick. Many of our picks come from trading down and accumulating picks. If you count high probability picks (drafted in first 2 rounds), we have used 4 picks. Each of those players are still in the league. Failure to retain is not the same as poor evaluation. Are they the best evaluators of OL talent? No, but they are hardly as bad as people claim. We haven’t used a high value pick on an OL spot and watched them flame out.
Steve Nelson : You have a right to your opinion. I have a right to disagree with your opinion. Glowinski, Ifedi, Fant ,Odiambo and Hunt now have a year of experience behind them. Plus Britt now has a year of experience at center. Plus the Hawks have added Joeckel, Aboushi, Pocic Jordan Roos and Justin Senior. The Hawks have NEVER been DEEPER at the offensive line position. I was happy when Luke Joeckel was added. Since then they have added Oday Aboushi, Ethan Pocic, Justin Senior and Jordan Roos. What more do want. Get a grip. Plus the Hawks are DEEPER at Running back. The Hawks have added Eddie Lacey. Plus Rawls, Prosise and Collins now have a year into the system. And don’t underestimate Chris Carson their 7th round pick. Carson is a tackle-breaking machine. This guy breaks one tackle after another after another etc. etc. Carson is fast and he breaks tackles.
Seems like Nelson has a decent grip. For whatever reason, the offensive line has been the weakest unit on the team for some time, even after spending more draft capital on the position than anybody else. It’s an interesting question, and one worth pondering.
As to this year, we have reasons to be optimistic, yet it comes as no surprise that some fans will remain skeptical, given the history.
In other words, this seems like a reasonable issue to discuss, and opinions are bound to differ. All to the good, I’d say.
I agree with parts of both of your sentiments. It does feel as if Seattle has perhaps squandered resources on the Oline, then again strategically it makes sense to pick them early and often since you’re not going to retain them with second contracts since you can’t afford them.
On the other hand it’s now two full seasons where the positional starter DOES NOT start in their previous spot. That’s Horrible.
The team desperately needs continuity. Bottom line. Players need muscle memory and repetition. I have never heard a former Olinemen speak on the radio or TV about how great it is for versatility. If you want to get up out of your stance, and stunt, pull, and drive how are you going to do that when you’re in a different spot and better yet the guy next to you might be as well.
My hopes for the line:
Fant- all upside and again Joeckel hasn’t been a good tackle and Fant’s not getting better by watching.
Joeckel- Could potentially help Fant with pre-snap adjustments, smarts to help navigate the left side, not as athletic as Fant so he gets “protected,” moving in. Glow is maybe, unfortunately, a JAG?
Britt- First player who gets paid by the FO. Played very well considering all the BS around him could play better with second year in the system.
Ifedi- built like a RT. Played in a spread system and his skills as RT were pretty hit or miss. Has MASSIVE size for inside not unlike NO Saints for Brees, could be an exceptional road grader if he doesn’t have any more nor has to heal from a high ankle sprain.
Pocic-multi sources speak to his versatility, plus once upon a time ability to play tackle. The team worked him out allegedly at tackle. Turns out the team doesn’t have a tackle. Heady, smart player, hopefully, anything is an improvement from last year. I actually hope he stays at tackle and will be super bummed if Britt plays well and Seattle lets him go to move Pocic causing Pocic to relearn the Center spot and just for laughs open up a hole at a spot Seattle is constantly trying to fill since not having the money or desire to retain Giacomini. Ultimately I am hoping for Pocic to be a “Free,” RT in that teams slept on him and his ability and perceived him as a purely inside player… which typically has lesser value.
People forget that from 2012-2014 the line oscillated from average to horrible, even with Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, and Giacomini. Go look at PFFs offensive line rankings for those years. It was mostly Marshawn and Russ making something out of nothing, us scoring on defense, and playing good special teams that carried us through to the promised land. Giacomini was terrible. James Carpenter played LG is whole career, and now he has gone to the Jets and had his best two seasons back to back for them. Of course we all know that the line gotten way worse the last two years in the meantime, and the scary part is we’ve had one of the healthiest O-lines in the NFL over this same time frame. A lot of other teams have backups better than some or most of our starters it seems.
The Seahawks’ starting O-line in 2012 was Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy and Giacomini
The Seahawks’ starting O-line in 2013 was Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy and Giacomini and they won a Super-Bowl.
Individually, none of these players ever approached the level of performance of some of the DBs who were drafted behind them. The best was Unger who played at a Pro-Bowl level when healthy. I believed that they played better as a unit than their individual level of talent. And I believe that their 2013 level of unit play benefitted from the continuity and experience they had all playing together at the same positions the season before.
I think playing musical chairs with the offensive linemen since 2013 has hurt both individual player development and overall unit cohesion/effectiveness. Some of that turnover has been unavoidable. Seattle has had draft cap issues to manage beginning in 2014 and chose to keep their core players. I agree with those decisions. But, I also think that some of the turnover has been unnecessary. Would Glowinski have been better off staying at RG last year and competing with Ifedi while Jahri Evans played LG? Would Gilliam’s development have been better off staying at RT throughout training camp instead of playing LT?
It would be an interesting research project to compare O-line continuity with championship success. If no team has ever won a championship with starter turnover at 3-4 offensive line positions, is it reasonable to expect Seattle to do it in 2017?
I’m not hating on the offensive line; I am rooting for them and Seattle to succeed.
I hope Fant improves. I hope Joeckel plays better for us than he has so far in his career. I hope Aboushi is able to show he is more than a backup. I hope Odhiambo is able to compete. Pocic looks like a good player and Seattle has demonstrated they are willing to start rookies so he could play this year. I still think Ifedi can become the next Kelechi Osemele.
I think the most reasonable scenario for Senior and Roos is that they earn jobs on the practice squad. Hunt may be cut if Pocic isn’t starting.
But, remember a year ago we were hoping/expecting Gilliam and Glowinski to continue their development and they did not. I wanted Seattle to draft Ifedi. But, I expected him to play better. I love the Fant story but his play was terrible. The free agent signees were terrible. Britt’s play at center was the only positive from last season.
Taking the rose-colored glasses off, Joeckel isn’t healthy, may not be ready to play by training camp and hasn’t played well for three years. He could become a starting guard or he could be the 2017 $8 million version of J’Marcus Webb. Fant could be the starting LT or the 2017 version of Gary Gilliam; an athletic project who isn’t able to make the jump to NFL-caliber play. Glowinski could be the 2017 version of Glowinski. Aboushi may be just a backup like Bradley Sowell showed us last year. Ifedi has to improve his level of play and change positions. He may have played RT in college but he didn’t play in a ZBS.
Kind of crazy how the Oline is so up in the air.
Just to share my prediction:
I think the starting line up will look like:
Fant
Joeckel
Britt
Pocic
Ifedi
With the second string line being:
Odhiambo
Glowinski
Roos
Aboushi
Senior
I actually completely agree at every position. Though I think they’ll end with 9 O-linemen, with Senior going to the PS.
I think by the start of the season it might be:
Fant
Joeckel
Britt
Glowinski
Ifedi
Either way…..We should be better this season. How can we be worse?
Carroll said today that Glow is going back to the right side.
I think Joeckel starts the season on the PUP list. Just sayin. He is recovering from a pretty significant injury. they are saying they are going to bring him along carefully. (acl +mcl) It takes a full year to recover from that type of injury. In other words I think Senior makes the team, to start the season anyway. That’s if he can get his weight down and have a good camp. Who knows Meyers might pop.I know they licked him enough to bring him in,
liked. LOL 🙂
They are paying Joeckel $8 mil on a 1 year deal. He better be ready to play day #1. Still a mind boggling signing IMO.
I like the other OL moves this off season and the attempt to sign TJ Lang but the an injured 1st round bust on a big ticket guaranteed 1 year deal did not make much sense. Hope he is ready to go week #1 and is a solid LG. If he is then money well spent but I have a feeling if he is hurt for training cam p he will struggle to pick up the system and even make the starting unit.
Well Okung got $13M and he probably won’t finish the season. Just the way FA OL goes now.
Rivals the Cary Williams signing as the most mind-boggling. To invest so much draft capital in the OL and still have to overpay for a Joeckel at LG speaks volumes. I think drafting Pocic is a return to big fundamentals and experience.
Nich: I think it is AWESOME. It sure BEATS last year when the Hawks had Sowell/Webb STARTING at offensive tackle.
I know, that was just….something else
I’d flip Ifedi and Pocic. The only reason for me is that Ifedi is built like a RT but, for me, in college relied too heavily on his physicality and did not really develop the day to day skills needed. Spread tackles are pretty hard to gauge their effectiveness. I actually like him quite a bit at RG.
I don’t think Griffen will start his rookie season. I do think that after this year they will let Shead walk and let Griffen be the starting right corner after a redshirt season.
I agree. The only thing is will Lane be better than he was last year? Maybe with an extra year to recover or are any of the players in the wings ready to go?
This is my projection: (from above Bobby K)
LT… Fant
LG…Joeckel
C….Britt
RG..Glowinski
RT…Ifedi
I agree with the starting 5 for right now, but I think they will keep 10 total OL and the back-ups will be:
1. Rees
2. Pocic
3. Hunt (C/LS**)
4. Roos
5. Aboushi
PS
1. Roos** (If they go with 9)
2. Senior
3. Hunt** (if he still has eligibility and doesn’t LS)
4. Burbank
You don’t think Pocic starts?
Seems a bit high to pick up a backup player. Especially in a situation where the line was hot garbage last year. Glow to me has had two seasons and could and should be improved upon immediately.
I still think Ifedi should stay a guard even though Pete said he would be a RT…, it’s moves like that, that make me question if there is even a driver at the wheel sometimes. Like you watched the games with us Pete…did you not see you drafted a RT and played him at guard so then you had both bad guard play and bad tackle play all season…would Ifedi at tackle and Odhi at LG and Glow back at RG not have easily been better than….Glow at LG, Odhi on the bench, Ifedi at RG and Gilliam/Sowell playing RT…I mean in season wiht no draft picks or Street FA’s you had all the pieces you needed to try to make the line better.
You can’t even argue continutity since Fant through Ifedi had never played any of those 4 spots…..
Sorry, not Impressed by the draft picks.
Like everyone else, I was surprised and disappointed in how the Hawks draft went. It has been a week and I am still trying to recover from the hangover after watching the Hawks draft. From the moment after the first pick at #35, we all sat there waiting for the Hawks to use their pool of draft picks to do the smart thing and move up to get another top 40 impact player. And we waited, watching one potential really good guy after another get taken. The first punch to the gut was hearing Green Bay , of all teams, to get Kevin King immediately at the start. Oh well, it will get better. But wait, there is a trade, and now we hear the Hawks traded away what was to become another target in Cam Robinson. And so began the Hawks down fall, getting body punched for 24 more picks while target and target gets taken. Just as I am staggering around the ring, I start to have a glimmer of hope that maybe one last target may be left at #58. I might just survive this after all. Then, # 56, ..” The Raiders select Obi Melifonwu!” Nooooo!!!!!! I don’t know what time I regained consciousness, but I remember regretting waking up too soon since the draft and was still happening.
We can twist it around and try to rationalize the picks, but I believe they did not get all of the guys they were hoping for and targeting. No GM does, but they all say they got who they wanted, which we all know is a lie. I look at Arizona and see Reddick and Budda Baker, Green Bay gets Kevin King and Josh Jones. Of course S.F. gets Thomas, Foster (Thank you Hawks), and Witherspoon.
I believe the NFC West just got significantly better than the Hawks. The draft rankings by score showed the Hawks had one of the highest scores for playoff teams, but that is deceiving, since it was only high because they had more picks than anybody. Calculate the average, and I bet the score is middle of the road.
Did you notice how excited the Arizona staff was after they picked Baker, high fiving and cheering like they just won the lottery. Then compare it to the casual , sad and obligatory golf clapping PC/JS did after taking their guys. They miss calculated and lost some targets and what we see are the Plan B guys. Compared to the guys they could have had if they were more aggressive and moved up, these are JAG’s. There was so much higher talent for them to take, and they had the resources but sat back and got the leftovers. I am disappointed in what could have been. They went for quantity rather than quality. I hope I am proved wrong, I will try to have an open mind, but compared to other teams, like the NFC West, these are average at best.
I couldn’t disagree more with this take to be honest.
If we’re going to judge a draft class on how the draft room responds then we’re not doing it right. Plus if the Seahawks wanted King or the highly overrated Robinson they wouldn’t have traded down.
Furthermore, people in January were asking for a dynamic interior pass rusher, improvement to the O-line and improved depth in the secondary. All of these needs were addressed emphatically.
Donald-I totally get the feeling of initial disappointment on draft day. After all-we spent months doting on some of those names. And Id be a pretty sad excuse for a Husky alum if I didnt harbor at least some homerist sentiments for the Dawgs we passed up. But I have come to feel that Rob is taking the right tack hêre and that a more patient stance is best. The only judgement worth a fig is one supported by the evidence gathered on the field of play.
For my money, I was dreading nothing so much as hearing them call out Cam Robinson at #26 (though I êxperienced the same distress you did as King and Obi slipped away-ditto BB going to…Ack! The Cards?). But as I learn more about *our guys*, I see the logic inherent in those moves. I feel Robs right (as ever), lets trust in the organization. And if we do get our butts kicked up and down the coast this season, Ill dutifully consume my portion of crow and take any we-told-you-sos gracefully.
My biggest disappointment was when GB took Biegle right ahead of us. And when Buckey Hodges was still on the board in the latter portion of the 5th they didn’t make a move up to get him. He needs some work but I think he is going to be a very good TE. He can catch the heck out of the ball. And he is fast.
Buckey Hodges> 6th round (201) My bad…
Its been almost a whole week right? If you cant self evaluate the incredible UW homer bias some have, Or the Blinders towards the awesome DB class that even Rob himself admitted was short sighted and out of character for the hawks to follow the leagues pattern.
Maybe you need to re read the blog article a couple times. Rob does a great job of walking the homers back from the edge.
If our defense stays healthy, malik collapses the pocket, and the oline is slightly better then last year, WE WIN THE SUPER BOWL.
A couple of points you missed or included in your “that a lie” business, is that Pete came up with this story with details about how they were watching the guys picking in front of our #58 who they were targeting Pocic. If we call that story a lie then Pete is quite the liar. He came prepared with details and such to lie when he could have just said nothing at all and avoided lying. Apparently, you believe Pete deceptive. According to your take, they really wanted Obi but fabricated this elaborate story to what? Create a myth that they are infallible? Or they just like to make up stories and fool the public at large? See, that’s where your fantasy that Obi was all along “the one” they wanted.
At this point in the tenure of Pete Carroll and John Schneider, I trust them to make the right calls. I really wouldn’t consider the mood of the Seahawks draft room to be somber at all when watching it… and really… whats the be glum about? The sky is the limit for McDowell who could one day terrorize the rest of the NFL, and the other draft picks all have extremely interesting qualities that have the potential to contribute greatly to this team of stars. Trust the method that brought us our first-ever Super Bowl.
Donald I felt the exact same way after the draft particulalr about the Mcdowell pick but I am really starting to come around. I don’t think this class will have much impact year #1 but they really improve the depth of the squad and if Mcdowell does work out he could be the steal of the draft. Also Pocic is the type of OL prospect I have wanted them to take for a while and Griffin is a Shem replacement after a redshirt year or two.
Thompson is going to be another mid-round DB gem and was one of my favorite players in the draft. Darboh and Hill just seem like Seahawks.
So my initial disgust is now replaced with luke warm enthusiasm and if Mcdowell shows heart and that he loves the game this draft class wil look a whole lot better.
Still really wished we had dipped into this deep TE group and picked up either Butt or Kittle who lasted till the 5th round. They were great value there.
I also have concerns about this draft.
Posed this question on brock and salk the other morning. While I think this draft has the possibility of being good long term it has been mentioned repeatedly our super bowl window is now. So did this draft get enough high impact players for that SB window?
Maybe the first two picks help this year. But sounds like one needs help with motivation. Personally prefer guys with high motors on their own and don’t need help with motivation. And maybe an Oline starter???
I will concede we don’t know whether pcjs thought there were high impact players worth trading up into the 2nd round for.
I don’t know why people say this about the super bowl window….Look no further than the Steelers, the Pats, and the Giants. The common theme is if you have a great QB your window is open as long as they are on your team. Heck manning opened the window for two teams, granted he wasn’t great when they won in Denver but I’m positive my friends from CO aren’t fretting that at all.
If you need rookies to step in and start right away, you probably aren’t a Superbowl caliber team though.
So interesting. As a Seahawk fan, what did you expect? They were never going to meet our expectations on draft day, they never do.
Does that make it wrong? Consider this. When they drafted Wilson in the third, Sherman in the fifth, Kam in the 5th?6th (can’t remember), Wright in the 5th? 6th? Did we know that these players would be core studs? Nope, nobody did (or very few of us, anyway).
The top 7 picks (through 111) had first or second round grades on them, according to sources. Trading back and accumulating picks has always been the practice, making the occasional trade ups (for Lockett, say) all the more surprising.
How many late round picks (Sneezy, for instance) or UDFA (Baldwin, Fant, Bennett) have made an impact? Why? Because nobody knows who will succeed, there are no sure things, and the more opportunities to hit on a player, the better.
PC/JS have a formula. They are looking for players with ‘heart’ (to quote a favorite bad football movie). They want players to compete, to excel, to overcome. And they promise that the players who do so, will make the team, will play professional football.
Those first seven picks were gold. The next four, frosting on the cake. We don’t know who will emerge as starters, or better, but the odds are certainly in our favor.
Make no mistake, the Seahawks scored, and I suspect that this draft and the last one will set them on another round of deep playoff runs.
The counter to this is as follows:
You can’t count Solomon Thomas…turns out you get phenomenal players when you are one of the worst teams. That’s not smart drafting. That’s like The Indy GM getting exec of the year for going 2-14 and drafting Luck.
Oh and they have no QB….so there’s that. And Foster? Really. How’s two LB’s IF bowman is ready to play going to change them. Plus Seattle must have really felt differently about Foster than a lot of posters here to let a rival get him. And Witherspoon. Absoutely great player when the ball is in the air. Not a TO machine but a great technician. Unfortunately Seattle likes TO’s and like guys that can tackle. Look at the tackle stats next draft season for DB’s. it’s an actual thing Seattle looks for.
AZ-Buddha Baker. Every year Husky fans are bummed and every year Seattle isn’t feeling it with UW. AZ as well has no QB. Palmer is sliding off a ridge, getting older, more injury prone, and less effective along the way. Sure they get up for games against Seattle but how about the rest of the year?
I’ll admit the Kevin King thing to GReen bay hurts. But Josh jones? That tape wasn’t really that good. It had it’s moments but it was kind of like Justin Evans, big hits, bad decisions, lost at times.
While the NFC west is going after big name items, Seattle quietly decided they were going to start before it’s broken in rebuilding an entire secondary. That’s pretty genius actually.
To add what Peter says, it takes just one injury, or one bust, to wreck a draft like Arizona’s or SF’s. Take a look at teams like Arizona and Carolina – SB contenders one year, miss playoffs the next. Aside from NE, what other team other than the Seahawks contend every year? Last year was bad (worst O-line in the league, injuries to Thomas, Lockett) and they still won a playoff game. For how many years now? There’s a good reason for that, and this draft will likely extend that streak.
And that’s the thing about what many consider as a bad Season. I’m not blaming Haushka at all, but two field goals essentially change from going on the the road to first round bye? With all the trouble and injuries and everything else that the team dealt with. That’s actually a pretty tremendous accomplishment.
🙂
Classic case of someone getting too caught up in mock drafts.
Just because they didn’t pick the players that were linked to them for months leading up to the draft by “experts” doesn’t mean they had a bad draft. Some fans get WAY too caught up in what they think a team should do based on pre-draft hype. There is a reason the Seahawks scouting department and FO does this for a living and we are all arm chair analysts. They know what they are doing.
And based on how P&JS have drafted during their tenure in Seattle, I am still surprised people react this way. They have shown time and time again that they couldn’t care less about what the national media or draft pundits want them to do. They go off their board and do it their way and the result we have gotten is 5 straight seasons with at least 1 playoff win, 2 super bowl appearances and 1 trophy. I think they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt.
I think you got too invested in certain prospects.
I kind of disagree too to an extent, but it dosent matter because your post was funny as hell. I would have loved to have had them draft either Foster or Ramzyck, and then trade up in the second and nab McDowell.
Yeah, I almost just wrote “too funny” and left it at that. But I didn’t.
The fact of the matter is you are looking tape and the games you’ve watched on tv dude. The guys that make all the decisions for the Hawks have actually met these guys and have talked to their coaches and have a feel for their work ethic, character, gritt, and intelligence which all factor into a football player reaching their potential not just physical attributes or flashy plays we see on tape. Obi has the athletic side of things but maybe he is an asshole that’s full of himself. I mean shit, he went to Ucon. That’s not exactly a football power house of a program. I realized something important just recently watching Alex Collins and troymaine pope last preseason. They cut pope and kept Collins and it left me scratching my head and then I had an epiphany that there is way more that goes into player evaluation then just games and measurables. It’s why guys like Julian Edelman and Chris Harris jr have set the league on fire because none of us would ever say one of those guys are going to be studs because you just don’t know til you put them on a team and see how they react to it. So don’t get upset because they didn’t take the prospects you like because in all reality it’s good they didn’t take Obi, king, watt because they got better value in the draft by not selecting those guys.
“Like everyone else, I was surprised and disappointed”
So EVERYONE was surprised and disappointed? Most people here were pretty happy with the draft. I have my doubts about McDowell but love what they did with the rest of the class.
When PC and JS came in they stated the first portion of their draft would be about the trenches on both side’s of the ball. Well they kind of got away from that a bit and it has come back to haunt them some. The Harvin issue I think was an eye opener for them. I think from now on it’s going to be OL+DL for a while. Look at the money these guy’s are making now. Cap space does not allow them to go out and throw big bucks at these guy’s….
Ifedi- Reed then Mcdowell- Pocic in back to back years should really help solidify our trenches with young cheap talent going forward.
After we lost in the playoffs Brock said 1-11 we probably have the best lineup in the league, but 12 – 45 he was not so sure. And as we all saw, the injuries killed us and the guys filling in were not up to snuff. I think this also shows that as our free agent backups are not as heavily sought after like a few years ago.
Now? That depth should be there. I wanted King, but I never expected him to start. Rarely do rookies have major impact from day one. McDowell could get only 1-2 sacks all season as a rookie and have a major impact just by providing a quality talent in the rotation. Same with Pocic.
I’ve come out of my initial disappointment with this draft after looking at it over time. Like the majority, familiarity with who is on tv and who is talked up leads to preferences for players that might not work out. Like Marlon Humphrey. Really a cover 2 guy more than a cover 3 guy. Maybe he never was even on their draft board.
I’m starting to get pretty stoked for next season. Last year’s class gaining one year in the system, and the added talent this year should give us a lot better shot to win a championship than 2015 and 16, and they don’t even have to have a single early (rookie) starter from this mix to do so. Just the depth alone, could give us the hedge against the injury bug that hits every team.
I was just doing some early prep work for the 2017-2018 College football season and wow a couple of guys jump off the screen as guys to monitor for Rd#1 next year for the Hawks.
#1 Derwin James (S-FSU) He looks like the best Safety prospect I have seen in years and the comp Sean Taylor which sounds ridiculous I know. He is 6-3 and 215 with great speed and explosiveness. He plays the run and pass and is a great blitzer. He is the first CFB player I have seen I think could not only replace Kam but be an upgrade.
If the Hawks had traded Sherm it should have been for a 2018 1st rounder to target this guy. I think Darnold goes #1 next year but this guy will be the 1st defensive player off the board is my projection.
#2 Mitch Hyatt (OT / Clemson) I hope Fant and Ifedi make huge strides in year #2 and that OT is no longer a huge need. If not then keep an eye on Hyatt. He was awesome in the Bowl Championship and has great feet and hand usage for such a young guy. He may not have the upside of some othe OT prospects in this class like Orlando Brown but I think he will be a day #1 plug and play guy.
#3 Christian Wilkins (DT / Clemson) He is the best interior pass rusher in this class and has dominated since day #1 as a freshman for Clemson despite getting moved all over the line. With the pick of Mcdowell interior pass rush may not be as big a need but I think this guy is going to be good.
#4 Vita Vea (DT / Wash) Rob has touch on this guy a lot already but he would be an awesome guy to tean with Reed to form our base DT rotation of the future.
#5 Milk Jefferson (LB/ Texas) If the Hawks can’t extend KJ then Jefferson might be an ideal replacement. He does not have KJs length but is faster and has the same type of versatility.
#6 Edge Rushers – I think the Hawks 1st round pick next year is likely to be an Edge rusher given Cliff’s age and contract. This does not seem like a great Edge rush class. Some guys I will be watching are Bradley Chubb (NC St.), Sam Hubbard (Ohio St), Arden Key (LSU), Harold Landry (BC), Clelin Farrell (Clem), Josh Sweat (FSU), Duke Ejiofor (WF)
I hope seattle is nowhere near the range to draft Vea, Chubb, or Jefferson…..to me that would mean Seattle has had a season that blew up in their face!
BTW I love all those players.
+1 I hope not too! But I think we are a Russ-out-for-the-season type of injury or a couple out-for-the-season type of injuries on defense away from going 8-8 or worse.
Yeah, let’s hope we need a breakdown on players in the, oh, 28-32 range.
Yeah Hyatt, Vea and some of the Edge guys could be there the end of Rd #1 but the rest no chance. With our backup Qb situation if Russ gets hurt we are picking early so you never know.
Vea is probably at least a top 10 pick. Unless he has a catastrophic injury or something.
Vea was essentially told by the draft committee go back to college and become top ten lock barring injury. To me if he
To me if he falls into the mid twenties its injury concerns like bad knees, a season ended, or smoking pot.
2018 draft we go 1st pick RB,LG,DT We pass on high DE pick. As far as trading our defensive stars as long as their play doesn’t drop it makes sense to draft back ups with huge upside to replace vets when Wilson get his new contract. We know our current roster is full of champions as long as they perform & have right attitude why make sure the position is in good hands before we let champs go. Our goal is Super Bowl every year!
There’s more, Walter Football 2018 – 2rd. mock. check it out. I watched Longhorn tape the other day and man does that Malik Jefferson really jump out at you.
I like Walter Football. I find some of it entertaining. I am not one of those snobs who thinks because they were wrong about something that you turn up your nose at them forever. But I just read the 2018 mock you referenced, and stuff like what they wrote for our pick drives me nuts, because we saw it all this draft season, too: “At some point the Seahawks have to address their horrible offensive line.”
We did! We have! We spent a #2 pick on an interior OL this year, we spent a #1 pick on a tackle last year. We signed two in FA. Just how much are we supposed to address it? Spend every pick on OL?
We just need to *play* better. That’s on Cable and the development people.
I don’t pay to much attention to what team they are projecting a certain player to, other than the prospects themselves. And the range where they are projecting them to go, just as a baseline.
I keep in mind the East coast bias, as walt is a Penn. State alum. Draft Teck is SEC bias.
Until Seahawks offensive line shows improvement the draft boards will continue to call for offensive linemen. I like the effort to find offensive linemen this year, lets see if it amounts to anything.
Not sure who said it or when (may have been Schneider on KJR the other day), but when talking about Darboh he made a comment to the effect of “he can run a really good slant route”. Could have been a dig at Lockette’s effort in SB49, or an actual compliment about Darboh’s size. He may not be a burner for go routes, but the dude has good size and is thick. He should be able to box out DB’s and get those quick slant/arrow routes that they try to keep forcing to Kearse.
I dont think its a dig at Lockette or anyone else–just a nod to something they really need an noticed in Darboh’s game. Tate ran great slant routes too, but RW cant throw them all that well, for whatever reason he’s often off-target. Darboh just runs great slants and Post routes, and his size helps box out the defender very well–which should help RW on those throws. I know Lockette and Darbohs height/weight are similar, but Darboh just looks thicker and stronger than Lockette ever did–and he plays much more physically too.
Russell honestly seems like he can’t see over the line on slant routes, which i hate to say but thats just what it looks like. Its one of the few passes I’m willing to give Darrell Bevell
Agreed, he’s a big dude. I’m interested to see Moore since there’s very little tape on him at all.
Hardly s pass for me. Don’t call the slant because your qb is short, wr is middling and other wr likely losses critical block on browner to screen Lockett s defender. Wretched call, but I give Bevell a pass for being human.
I was speaking less to that play, more to slant routes in general. But yeah that was a bad playcall mostly because we expected Jermaine Kearse to block Brandon Browner. It is also Russells fault, even if it was a designed play if he would have read the defense better or just glanced to the flat, he sees Marshawn Lynch open and we are superbowl champs, which i think we cam be this year. It feels like the depth is back.
Also screens. With the d-lineman in his face, RW seems to have trouble getting the ball to the RB.
The Carolina divisional playoff was a memorable occurance of that.
I too was initially disappointed (no, disgusted) with Seattle’s Draft. But I am just barely smart enough to know Seattle’s FO and scouts know a lot more than I–and I didnt watch all that much video of the thousands of college players out there. I just watched some of the players that intrigued me or seemed to fit Seattle’s ideals. So what do I know? Not a heck of a lot.
That doesnt mean I am blindly going to trust that our FO is perfect; they’ve screwed up bigtime both in trades, by cutting players they should have kept awhile longer, and in entire Drafts. But more often then not, they do just fine. Sure, they havent nailed a late-round pick in some years (though we wont know about last years draft for another year or two), and their early picks have been a mixed bag, and we all know their struggles to find long-term or even short-term successful OL. But overall, theyve done a really good job in FA and the Draft, so they’ve at least earned a wait-and-see.
What I really like is that their picks seem to show a shift in how they evaluate players–they didnt draft a TEF workout warrior OL, they drafted Pocic; a versatile guy with middling to not great measurables but heart, grit and technique; a guy who can likely contribute very early, at least as a swing backup. In past years it appears they might have overlooked Pocic. Same with Delano Hill–he’s not a crushing tackler, nor is he super-quick or straight-line fast. He’s fast enough, and he’s got heart, football smarts, and good technique. In past years I think they might have gone for a flashier athlete and not taken Hill. Tedric Thompson is another case in point; he’s got a terrible 40 time, but plays smart (takes great angles), has excellent ball skills and tackles well. Yet another guy they might not have taken in past years, IMO.
The shift that I see in their drafting seems to emphasize competitiveness and heart and football smarts alot more, and to not focus quite so much on elite athleticism. Griffin is an elite athlete, as is McDowell, but you cant say that about Pocic, Hill, Thompson, Jones, etc. They didnt only draft crazy special athletes with their late picks, they drafted mostly guys who should contribute something right away–even if thats just ST’s and backup.
I thought the draft was a good mix of swinging for the fences on elite athleticism and rare traits (McDowell, Griffen, Tyson, Moore, Carson), risky picks of less than elite athletes but highlighting football smarts, grit, and technique (Pocic, Hill, Griffen again though he is an athlete too, Thompson, and Jones). And then you have Senior and Darboh; Senior is an interesting case, a guy who played better in previous seasons at lesser weight–if he can regain his former weight and form, he too could be a fine athlete and a solid technician.; and Darboh is a unique player with special attributes, though he isnt exactly an elite athlete. I think he’s my favorite pick, a guy who can make tough catches on the ground and up high, in traffic and one handed, who can tip-toe catch along the sideline, someone with decent height and great strength and heft who has enough wiggle and speed to project as a fine #2 WR someday, and contribute early.
To my eyes, Seattle is adjusting as they go, both in the personnel evaluation (FA/Draft/etc), and scheme (Cable’s changes to the RG and LG scheme last year). THat is something heading into last season that I didnt necessarily see them doing, and Im pleased to see them doing so. You cant stay the same year in year out in the NFL–teams will figure out how to stop you. Seattle may not be reinventing the wheel, but they are adapting and I salute them for it.
Now lets hope this Draft Class works…
Nice post. I agree they keep adjusting every year, but they have to. When you draft in the low 20s/30s for 5 years in a row, you have to evolve to try and stay ahead of other teams. If you just make the safe picks every round, every team drafting ahead of you will get better than you from a talent stand point. The 49ers and Cardinals had great drafts but frankly they should have when drafting in the top half of each round.
Love some of your points but for me the best one is (pardon the paraphrasing) is that it feels like they really focused on drafting “football players” from top to bottom
Very nice post, and I think you are right. Being a good football player, with the right attitude, is worth a lot, and if you can find those guys throughout the draft, some of them are going to be special.
Meant to reply to STTBM
Pete Carroll on Maliks position.
He will play 5 Technique just like Mike B, and featured inside on nickel and passing downs.
Sounds like Red Bryant Role with actual pass rushing talent.
5 T is on outside shoulder of a tackle. 3T will be the nickel and pass rushing downs.
Passing rushing DT in the nickel, and spells Bennett at 5 tech in the base run downs. Pretty munch confirming what many thought that he was playing WAY out of position at the nose in CFB last year, and allowing him to play to his strengths. Pretty cool stuff.
Sounds like the perfect role for him
Agreed. Who better to learn from than Bennett?
Excellent. I actually think he could be a better outside player than inside. He’s great at both though.
His CEILING is as a TERROR across the entire front four. Someone who requires audibles to protect against and that creates mistakes and open lanes for others. We may no longer have a LOB, but we need a name for this emerging DL that will decimate QB’s. Remember the “Purple People Eaters” and the “Iron Curtain”? The Rams had a named DL as well. This one will be equally historic. The Blue Wall or something much better. I feel a contest brewing. LOL.
Legion of Doom!
The blue wall doesn’t really do it for me.
Blue Wave
The Blue Wave was going around in the Kennedy, Kerney, Rockey Bernard era.
Blue Collar Beasts
The 12th infantry
I’m looking forward to 6’6″ Malik and 6’5″ Naz Jones batting down a lot of those dink and dunk passes (e.g short crossing routes) that teams seem to be so frustratingly successful against us with..
Imagine having a 280 lb sam in base defense…
Basically can’t happen…
Teams shredding him in coverage?
Well we covered gronk and Calvin Johnson easily enough.
If he thrilled if David Moore made the roster.
Let us remember how successful the JS/PC ‘win forever’ era has been. They’ve been running the show for the last 7 seasons out of the franchises 40 years.(17.5%). 1 Lombardi trophy. 2 of 3 SB appearances. 9 of 16 playoff wins(56.25%). 70-41-1 regular season record(62.9%).
Before JS/PC (82.5%): 1 SB appearance. 7 playoff wins(43.75%) 253-275 (47.9%).
This is the golden age of Hawks football! This needs to be remembered when gauging how well our 2017 draft went. It’s difficult to find day 1 starters on a well rounded roster. While the 49ers, Cards, Panthers, Saints etc. may have drafted more immediate impact players, there is more room for impact to be made within rosters with more holes than the Hawks have. Also the Hawks didn’t lose many quality snaps in FA from either their O or D units. This draft clearly improves the quality of depth of the roster 1-90, and more importantly 1-53.
+1
Those teams should draft better than us, they all picked at worst 12th in each round. It would take a complete moron to screw up SF’s draft this year.
I love this draft class. Seems like JS and PC were thinking beyond next season, as one clearly should. And as someone above nicely noted; If a rookie stands out as one of the teams best players, that team had some serious issues.
The comment about rookies standing out, and then starting over veterans, is why the drafting of Pocic is intriguing.
Kyle Shanahan’s comments the other day regarding Foster –
“Our doctors do a great job,” Shanahan said. “They looked into everything with Reuben and met with him. Our doctors felt good about his shoulder. They thought it was recovering well. They didn’t have the same report a lot of other teams did.”
Are you kidding me? Their doctors had a different report than 31 other teams?
Even with this “blunder” I thought Lynch really nailed the draft. Way more competent than the prior big cheese in SF. And if he does get back to form…. it is a HR pick. Foster is THAT good when 100%.
Before I read any of the comments I want to say that was a great and inspiring write up today Rob. But….LOL…there’s always a but otherwise, I’d just praise you and that get’s boring.
As polished as you say Darboh is, I think your projection of Darboh as at best a fifth WR option who excels on special teams is low. Darboh will compete, and since his skills are high he will have every possible chance to replace Kearse this year. With any injuries at all to the regulars, Darboh would get a chance to shine and from there he writes his own story. All this might happen before we are out of pre-season games. The slightest injury to Baldwin or Kearse or Richardson will instantly give Darboh his chance in the pre-season.
He’d have to perform spectacularly for pre-season performance to push him past Kearse, perhaps. Yet, I hope for exactly that so we improve the position. Kearse as performed admirably for an UDFA, but if he had been drafted a second round pick he’d be viewed as a mild disaster. I’m willing to bet Darboh had one of those second round grades we’ve heard about. I expect him to perform as such.
In fairness, I didn’t rule out him earning a greater role in 2017. I think, however, in year one as we stand here today it’s most likely he will end up being a core special teamer as a rookie with the potential to become a more regular feature in the passing game down the line.
Agreed. Having little bets with myself on the side as to who will do what makes being a fan more fun, and the information you give us, Rob, allows us to make more informed bets with ourselves. Thanks, again.
Thank you Rob for the fantastic intel on our new Hawks – especially the back stories that highlight the character of this draft class, They’ve got tenacity and some have already demonstrated ability to overcome adversity in life. While maybe not so flashy they appear to have mental toughness/grit . Happy to see them add competition to our roster. Hopefully this influx of new talent will provide the “spark” some of the vets need to reenlist in PC’s Win Forever system
Haven’t commented in awhile and want to add some thoughts on McDowell –
I live in a college town where students outnumber residents 2 to 1…Thus, spend an inordinate amount of time with 20 yr olds – employing them in my business, advising them in the student organizations…. Sure they can be entitled, obstinate and lazy at times. Often they think they know so much more than they really do…. but trust me 20 is YOUNG! Usually what they really need is support, encouragement and can be coached up. Typically they need more mentoring than they care to admit.
Malik’s body language is very telling and IMO he must have been very poorly coached – wrong position, playing hurt… who knows what else? He should blossom under Pete. Perhaps even more important will be his relationship with our vets. – especially Bennett and Avril. Both pretty awesome guys who want another SB ring! Last offseason MoosBeard took J. Clowney and a few others under his wing. His offbeat style will likely be really appealing to a 20 something and Malek is going to want MiekB’s approval. So hawks have the right coaches and locker room for Malik to become truly special. It’s up to him to seize the opportunity – if he does he could be DROY sack machine!
DROY for McDowell is entirely realistic
Possible, just wonder if he will get enough snaps.
The Ed Orgeran (LSU head coach) radio interview was interesting (discussing Pocic). When asked where he saw Pocic fitting in with the Seahawks..he said center..because it’s rare to find someone who can handle nose tackles one-on-one..which he proved he could do playing every week against the best in the nation at LSU.
I said it before – I expect old fashioned competition for each position on the OL, and I won’t be surprised if SEA roll with Pocic at C and move Britt to G.
Could see a starting OL of:
Fant–Joeckel–Pocic–Britt–Ifedi
not sure they would do that to Britt in his contract year though (move him for the third time). More likely they let him play out his contract as starting center…and then move Pocic in next year after Britt has rung the cash register somewhere else.
I have no idea whether Pocic is better than Britt at C but if he does win the job in training camp then Britt needs to be moved to G. PC/JS want to put the best team out there so there shouldn’t and I doubt there will be any consideration about the fact that this is Britt’s contract year.
Pocic does very little for me anywhere other than C to be honest.
Sometimes he can fire off the line and get a block in the secondary, but it was rare to see. He’s such a technician that I guess I could see him at LG, but we’re stacked there. Glow back to RG, Ifedi to RT, Fant at LT.
Can’t count out Odhiambo and Aboushi, yeah.
After reading the comments, a couple of thoughts, and an assertion about where the draft left the Seahawks weak.
A lot of comments about the need for continuity in the o-line. There might be more continuity than we initially thought. Take, for instance, the possibility of starting (left to right): Fant, Joeckel, Britt, Glow, Ifedi. This projection (not original with me) is based on Fant taking a big step forward, Glow returning to his natural position, and Ifedi playing the position he was drafted to play. If this projection holds, a couple of interesting implications:
1 – four of last years starters would return, with two of them at the same position, and the lone FA playing the position he played last year (for another team). That’s a decent amount of continuity
2 – Pocic doesn’t start. Imagine that, the team doesn’t need to start a second round pick, even if he is the best O-Lineman as a rookie. There is too much talent along the line, and for the first time in awhile Seattle doesn’t start a rookie on the offensive line.
3 – this line up would provide for excellent depth, with Pocic, Aboushi (if he makes the team), and Ohdiambo. Not counting Roos (who might make it over Aboushi), Hunt and Senior (if he can get into shape)
4 – 2017 sets up for a young group starting in 2018 and beyond, whether Britt gets resigned or not, with Pocic or Ohdiambo replacing Joeckel.
So the o-line is looking okay for 2017 and beyond. The d-line looks tremendous, both in 2017 and beyond, with young studs Reed, Naz, Clark and McDowell playing alongside Rubin, Bennett and Avril.
As for the secondary, 2017 will be fine unless Thomas, Kam or Sherman get injured, or seriously regress. Shead will start at some point, returning all the starters, while Lane (or someone who beats him out) playing RCB, and McDonogugual (sp) manning the big nickel. So many talented youngsters in the wings, the future looks good, without having to start a rookie anywhere in the secondary.
At TE, reports on Graham are great, and maybe Vannet emerges as the number two TE, with Willson still there. An extension to Graham solidifies the future at the position.
Seattle is stacked at RB, with quality throughout. A young group and definitely part of the future.
Which leaves two position groups – QB and LB
If Boykin wins the back up QB, at least he’s not a rookie, but fans can’t feel too comfortable if he has to start. I don’t see any good options, or at least anything that would truly represent a viable back up if RW was injured and missed time.
LB is a different story. The latest is a couple of the FA LBs will compete for SAM. That’s all well and good, but that position has been minimized, and we won’t lose much sleep over the staring SAM. Back ups to Wright and Wagner, however, is a different story.
Depth at LB must be our biggest concern going into the season (although future injuries could change that). PC wanted to get younger at LB, draft someone who could conceivably give his starters a rest on occasion, and perhaps replace them someday. That didn’t happen in FA, or the draft. The team is now vulnerable – in 2017 and beyond – if something happens to Wagner or Wright. After Thomas, Wagner may be the most important defensive player in the field.
Or am I mistaken? Do the Seahawks have capable LBs to back up either of these players?
I forgot to include the WRs. Pencil in Lockett, Baldwin, Richardson as starters, with Kearse a viable 4th, and competition for the 5th and 6th spot. I like Grayson and Darboh to round out the group, with the possibility of Kearse losing his spot. Thinking through it, though, Kearse provides a viable back up for every WR position, and that might seal it. Or perhaps McEnvoy or Kassin step up and make it. No matter: the position group is solid.
yeah..I think you’ve pretty much nailed the strengths/weaknesses of the roster. Wagner & Wright (like Russell) are going to be very difficult to replace if they miss much time this year. Too bad Biegel didn’t fall to us in the fourth round…that would make me feel better about the LB situation..then again…we’d be worse off at safety depth without T Thompson..
Yep, the most important position in the scheme is free safety.
Stacked RB room?
Sure. Even if Rawls is your starter and Prosise the third down back. Given health, those two could be one of the best tandems in football. Add a better o-line and a healthy RW, and a re-committment to the running game, those two should excel.
That’s not even considering Lacy. If he regains his previous form, he could carry the weight (no pun intended) by himself.
Having three viable starters (Prosise can play every down), each with proven ability, is great.
As for Collins and Pope, they both have potential. Pope may be the more dynamic whereas Collins mostly bread and butter. But even so, viable back ups with future potential.
It would be difficult to add to this group without pushing a talented player to another team.
Personally?
I think we are underrating Darboh.
He can easily be our number 2 receiver behind Baldwin. I like him as a receiver better than Lockett.
Never suggested he couldn’t be the #2 in time.
To think he will be the #2 in year one, as we stand here today weeks before camp is even close, is a stretch.
We might be under-rating him, but I think Kearse better be on point this preseason… otherwise, poof.. gone.
Yes I know it doesn’t make cap sense, but if the guy is better…. and you preach competition… Kearse would be toast.
As for being a #2 WR, I see him as the 3rd or 4th WR…. Lockett is a fabulous WR with many natural gifts. His speed and route running are probably a bit under-rated. Baldwin, Lockett are the top 2 WR…. after that… crap shoot.
Assuming his Tib Fib heals properly and his explosiveness stays. Also those types of injuries can mess with a guy mentally. I hope it all works out.
None of us barely knew who he was a week ago and now he’s better than Lockett as a rookie?
I mean, I knew who he was throughout the fall season. I also think Lockett exceeded low expectations we placed on him.
We talked about the two Michigan WO’s last year. IMO
Chessom being the other.
We talked more about Chesson, but me and Vol were marveling at this guy in October
I think Lockett is the better football player, he’s got all the intangibles and route running and all that good stuff, he’s just always going to be limited by his size. Darboh is as good a route runner and also understands zones and coverages already. They both struggle getting off the line. Ultimately Darboh will surpass Lockett, it might not be year 1, or it very well could be year 1. They’re pretty similar other than the fact Lockett is >6ft and Darboh is <6ft
Initially, I was not pleased with the pick of Naz Jones, but I had not seen film or highlights. Now that I have seen him, he instantly reminded me of Cortez Kennedy. A reach, for sure, but the big butt, low center of gravity, and suddenness are elements that Cortez used to dominate.
6’5″ with long arms too…
Seems like teams have adjusted to Seattle’s pass defense philosophy of “don’t give up the long pass/keep everything in front of you” by working the underneath zones. Adding height and length along the DL will make that more difficult for them…
I gotta a bit of a feeling that while Malik is going to come in with a lot of flash and hype, Naz is going to be one who might pleasantly surprise a lot of the fans with some impressive play. I think he’s going to be a really interesting player to watch. Love the way he explodes into ball carriers. Kinda War Daddy like.
🙂
C-Dog. I am happy with the selection of both McDowell and Jones. Both players are needed. This is also going to force Quinton Jefferson to work his tail off if he has any hope of making the team.
If you study Jefferson, you know he will.
Lunch pail type
Wow. so much talent on the D line. backed by two all pro linebackers and two all pro safeties, with an elite shutdown corner. Should be a great year on defense.
And those special teams?
McEvoy, Darboh, Powell, Elliott, Thompson, Hill, Griffin, MIKE TYSON
Wish we had signed a rookie Kicker
Tyvis Powell is gone
This is definetly the deepest the hawks have been on the defensive line since 2013. We are also deep at linebacker. May not seem like it but I really like guys such as Kache Palacio and Dewey McDonald.
Don’t underestimate the signing of Bradley McDougall. This is really an under the radar signing. McDougall will probably play the Buffalo Nickel role for the Seahawks. With thay said. I LOVE the picks of Shaquill Griffin, Delano Hill And Tedric Thompson.
Sorry but was Darboh the prospect accused of animal abuse?
I didn’t think he was but someone was just hinting at character red flags on him that i didn’t remember coming across
Never heard of anything like that associated with Darboh. If i remember that was Dalvin Cook?
Did some googling and I couldn’t find anything. Everything I have read points to Darboh being one of the highest character guys in the draft
That was my experience as well
I think you may be thinking of Zamora from Baylor
Thats it.
Ha. So many scumbags in that organization it seems
Where did Zamora end up? SF got a steal in UDFA with KD Cannon.
Ice City lol
I thought the same thing!!
I thought of you when I saw it as well haha
Its a good spot for him. He can develop and earn time.
To piggyback off of Trev’s comment up above.
I know Barkley, Guice, and even his teammate Bo Scarborough will get all the attention, but if Seattle is in the market next year for a RB in rounds 2-3, do not sleep on ‘Bama’s Damien Harris. The SEC is loaded with eligible RBs for 2018.
U guys see Todd McShay’s 2018 mock draft?
I did.
Not sure where this Josh Allen love is coming from. #1 overall??
Yea,really don’t see that either.
Yeah, that was a bit baffling. He’s got a lot of potential, but needs a lot of work too. Too much of a gunslinger.
Can’t see how Sam Darnold isn’t the 1st pick unless he bombs or suffers an injury. He’s got a funky motion, but it works. Its never hurt guys like Phillip Rivers or Aaron Rodgers
Thankful we don’t have to worry about QB for a long time…
Just Seattle’s pick big Giant OT from Hmmm, I forget? Oklahoma, Florida, Miami? Didn’t see the rest though.
Oklahoma. Orlando Brown.
Watched a little bit of him last year, but was more impressed by Udub’s Trey Adams, Pitt’s Brian O’Neil, and from a size perspective, Wazzu’s Cody O’Donnell. Big fan of Florida’s Martez Ivey as well.
Saw a little of the Pitt- Notre Dame game, didn’t really focus on O’Neil though. Some good prospect next year, especially if some more Jr’s come out.
Yup. The O-line class should be much, much better.
Without going back and looking, I don’t think Seattle has ever drafted more than 2 jr’s in a single draft class.
I’m also wondering if JS visited W.Michigan back on Oct. 10th for OT Chukwuma Okorafor.
Moton was talented, but not like this dude.
Interesting, V12, that you mention Trey Adams (UW) and Cody O’Connell (WSU). Both are 6′ 8″ offensive linemen, and both played their HS ball at Wenatchee (I grew up there). What kind of team did the Panthers have with those 2 monsters?
Adams is listed @ 6′ 7″
Your right he is listed @6′ 8″…. He sure look’s the same higth as McGary standing side by side. McGary is 6’7″
That I couldn’t tell ya. I don’t really follow HS football except for a little of the GSL which is the league here in Spokane.
Speaking of Wenatchee, just went to Apple Blossom parade yesterday.
O’Connel – 6’8, 380, consensus All American. Really can move for his size. Candidate for the first guard off the board in 2018.
Do you guys/gals have a draft crush or UDRFA that you are rooting for in the 2017 season?
I’ll start. Roos. Not sure how or why, but he is going to make the team. *fingers crossed*
Naz Jones from the draft picks, and Tyrone Swoopes (TE/QB) from among the UDFA.
Mine is Darboh. Just feel like he has all the ability to be a future quality outside WR
I’m a Swoops fan. Hope he makes it too.
Swoopes is also very intriguing. He could be the 4th TE and an emergency 3rd QB…… in a pinch.
Hill, I want him to beat out McDougald and take over the nickel
Same.
Really liked what I saw from Jordan Roos.
Also hope Swoopes develops.
UDFA? Algie Brown.
Cyril Grayson
Skyler Howard!
Draft pick: Shaquill Griffin
UDFA: Skyler Howard
Anyone see this yet? The OL depth chart from Pete Carroll’s mouth.
https://twitter.com/CHawk_Talk/status/860940918924361728
Seems like they really want Odhiambo to start, knowing they could stick Joeckel in at LG and have Fant continue growing
Interesting. Is Joeckel so much better than Fant at LT that it’s worth the downgrade (assuming there is one) from Joeckel to Odhiambo at LG?
Good thing there is you would have 3 guys playing same spot in 2018, 4 if they re sign Britt.
WE TOOK A BACKUP OL IN THE SECOND?!?!?
I HATE THIS DRAFT AND TOM CABLE ALWAYS TAKING HIS GUYS.
THERE WERE WAY BETTER OL ON THE BOARD THAT COUD ACTUALLY START ON WHAT LOOKS LIKE THE WORST LINE THAT EVUR EXISTID.
I’m switching to Oakland. They drafted Obi
Nevermind
There’s no raidersdraftblog .com with a slick British host
😀
NOT A BAD THING WHEN YOU HAVE 0 ROOKIES STARTING ON THE O-LINE
Lets see,
Per Pete; Bust-Bust-Bust-Bust-Bust
Isn’t Oakland just Seattle lite? 😉
What’s interesting about that, is they seem to be keeping that 9th spot open for comp. So not could be Roos, Hunt, someone from the PS, or even a chance of an outside guy not currently on the roster.
it*
I hope it’s Roos and not an outside guy, I want young backups like we used to have with Jeanpierre and McQuistan, Gilliam,
Pocic is Mcquinstan 2.0 he is the token ginger needed to get us back to holding the lombardi.
Not to throw too much cold water on the enthusiasm, but they have around 14 OL right now and a max of 10 will make the squad. They really don’t need more young guys… since the OL already is young. Just need to mature together.
Britt, Ifedi are locks…. Glo, Odhi, Pocic are very likely to make the squad. That si 5 guys right there.
I think Fant might not make it (just a hunch). I guess they could play with the PUP designation and stash a guy or two until week #6… making the OL cut easier. I’m thinking of Joeckel (and his knee) in this case. As always, injuries in preseason might make the choices easier…. currently 12 guys listed for 10 spots… so not many cuts necessary.
There are only 9 OL on PC’s twitter “depth chart”, including Fant, and you think he might not make it?!?
I just feel like the Pocic pick is a chance to start this year but he takes over at center next year. Britt will net us a comp pick. Just my guess.
I think Roos takes Hunt’s spot. Senior may make it if Joeckel is not ready, or has a setback. May go on PUP for 6 weeks. I am really hoping Senior trims down and play’s up to his 2015 form.
I agree about Roos, I think if he shows he can play C and G then he’s the guy and Hunt is gone. I’d let out a huge sigh of relief if we keep Senior on the 53. We need guys who we can groom to start, it would be so nice to have him show up
Wow. Nazair Jones reminds me of Jurell Casey. A lot
A lot to like in the limited amount of game I have been able to find. Earlier I mentioned his body type echoes Cortez Kennedy, although he is taller and not as heavy, but he has a low center, a big bubble, and is quick while playing low to penetrate, but is also able to play tall at 6′ 5. He could be the next generation of the late round gem. I’m a dreamer.
I’m with ya OBS. He’s gona be a good one!!!
Was watching some games with Skyler Howard QB udfa that we signed, and he is very interesting. A bit short, under the radar, but West Virginia is not a punk program, and the guy has an impressive resume. Notable, though, is his deep accuracy. The highlight video, while a highlight video, showed an amazing number of long passes, but what struck me was that they all seemed to be right in the basket. No diving, reaches, leaps, but just catch the ball in stride.
Pete calls him a “mad bomber”, and it is apparent.
For this moment, he is my favorite to back up Russell, and maybe in time press him some.
I really think Skyler has a chance. PS at least. Smart kid who love’s to compete. Nice story-line also. Smart scrambler who will hang in the pocket til the last second with good field awareness. Makes good read’s and will throw his receiver’s open.
Skyler Howard; If you want to watch something cool, watch Skyler Howard’s/ Sky is the limit Jr highlights. From his first game that season to the Cactus Bowl where he threw for 532 yrd’s and 5 Td’s you could see the vast improvement. He had 3,145 yd’s and 26 Td’s on the season. The first few game’s I watched his ball was a little wobbly at times, by the end of the season there was no such issue. He has been playing in a pro style system for two year’s now and is very proficient in the read option. He does 3,5 and 7 step drops from center and does it well. When things break down, he pull’s the ball down and patiently looks for a blocker and always goes forward. Love that.
I have watched full game’s of Iowa, Texas Tech. AZ. St. and Texas. I will say this about Boyken, he is a goner. No way he can compete with this kid. Boyken makes bad decision’s off the field that I have already seen translate on the field. Not even in the same wheelhouse man!!!!
Let me go a little further here, Skyler will push Russel Wilson, For his job down the road. GO HAWKS!!!
Howard and Boykin ought to be a good competition in camp. We have our choice of all of the undersized guys coming out of college. Because they are too short you know they bring a lot of the other skills that are needed to play the position including having overcome a lot of doubters. I would like to see both Boykin and Howard make the team with one of them on the practice squad. I think it will come down to how they perform off the field in the locker room and QB room, film study and the ability to learn the playbook and improve from snap to snap. They can certainly play.
Skyler is 6’0″”/210 and working out to make himself stronger and faster. He is working with a QB guru to improve his technique . He play’s with an over the top delivery, with a Brett Farve sidearm whip on the scramble. He actually play’s taller than he is. He doesn’t seem to have much trouble seeing over the line. I noticed WVU has a pretty good sized line. Because of the way he was able to get the ball off it didn’t seem to bother him at all. He moves around in the pocket very well. He reminds me of a more athletic Drew Brees. Or a shorter Farve.
When I was watching tape of him this morning my wife was giving me grief because I was getting all choked up with tears an all. LOL. True story… Good heartfelt stories make me cry like a baby.
I am 66 yrs. old and have been following the Hawks since their inception. Bought season ticket’s when they drafted Kenny Easley. I had been following the draft when Kenny was a freshman. I was the happiest fanatic in the world when the Hawks drafted him over Lott. Boy was I sweating that one out.
In today’s NFL you are not allowed to hit like he brought it. And boy did he bring it!!! One aspect of Kenny’s game that I was amazed with was his range, able to go from one side of the field to the other to make the game winning INT. This is what drew me to OBI. He has the same kind of range. The Raider’s got a good one there.IMO. GO HAWKS!!!!
was skyler the qb while glowinski was there?
I’m thinking not. Pretty sure 2015 was his 1st season. He transferred from some Jr. collage, who uni’s exactly like the Bengals.
Great vid. Link:
Sky Is The Limit (Skyler Howard Junior Highlights)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzsTzge4Y_c
When it comes to the starting offensive line. Below is 9my best guess at the moment.
Left Tacke
Fant
Left Guard
Joeckel
Center
Britt
Right Guard
Glowinski
Right Tackle
Ifedi.
Bench
Pocic
Aboushi
Odhiambo
You then have three lineman battling for one spot. Justin Senior, Joey Hunt and Jordan Roos. Don’t count out Roos. Just for the record no guarantee Odhiambo makes the team.
Agree with the likely starters, but think they like Odhiambo and likely to make the team. He also has a shot to start (see PC’s Oline depth chart above).
I expect Senior to make the practice squad and Hunt as the ninth Lineman, again, based on PC’s depth chart. Roos is the wildcard. A TEF demon, he might emerge to push the starters, wind up on the practice squad, or be simply cut. Hard to say.
Somebody talk me off the ledge, but I am feeling inordinately optimistic about this group, with the expectation that Ifedi, Fant and Odhiambo make big second year leaps, and that Joeckel and Aboushi are at least league average at their positions. Projecting a second round pick to sit his first year is crazy good.
Aboushi is a good lineman and he will start. excels in pass pro. We need some of that on the interior. Hunt will not make the 53 regardless of what TC thinks or want’s. I think the Hawks brass is done with the project’s. Snyder signed a long term contract. This is his team now. He is beginning to put his fingerprint on this team now. Which should resemble the Green Bay dynasty of years past. Only I think he will do it better.
who is snyder?
I’m thinking John Schneider.
I’m thinking John Snickerdoodle?
Snyder is the owner of the Skins, so using that as a short hand for our godlike GM is misleading.
Schiedz or JS are the short hand I recognize.
I really like the draft. A little different in the rounds projected, but generally what the blog talked about position wise. They played the board. They knew they could get relatively similar DB’s in 3rd instead of 1st and 2nd. So, they drafted the #1 DT (when he is motivated), the #1 C (can play guard and tackle) and solid #2 after 2017 because (Richardson/Kearse and maybe even Lockett may be gone). Then they loaded up on players that will grow and hopefully take over for Kam/Sherm/Lane/Shead
I was reading something on the Falcons draft and the coach (ex-Seattle) brought up a “competitive toughness grade”. It made me think that is an element missing from the Seahawks Pre-draft process this year. Yes, it may be hard to identify or evaluate from the outside. Although we did pan guys like Witherspoon in instances when it was a giant neon sign, as I look over the players we chose I can’t help but think something like that is used in Seattle and it’s weighted heavily. We often picked guys with hunger and drive-developing backstories. Tough, physical, driven players who come with a huge amount of what could be boiled down to a resulting, specific trait:
“competitive toughness”.
I think Rob sort of already factors that in to his process. He seeks out prospects with gritty back stories –
individuals that have built character on and off the field by overcoming trying circumstances. It is indeed very difficult to quantify such a trait but the Seahawks (and the Falcons too by way of the Carroll coaching tree) clearly value such players.
I certainly didn’t discount Rob’s analysis – he did a fantastic job. What I’m getting at is really just that I think the Seahawks weigh that stuff more strongly than anticipated. So many guys we took weren’t popular, easily identified, or common among us fans and many draftnicks. Almost our whole class are gritty, forged players who will bring the iron bully talent infusion to our team that’s needed. They did it by identifying players who have the ‘it factor’ in spades. Really cool stuff.
🙂
That’s why guys like Joey Hunt are players who they couldn’t leave the draft without last year. Normally, they like the TEF stars late, but the drafting of Hunt and what they said about him last year (having to have him) gives a big clue there’s another side to players they want/need besides the gritty stuff too.
Not to nitpick, but I’ve consistently seen this reference to the Hunt pick and them having to have him, and I think people have misheard and misunderstood what was said. What JS and PC said wasn’t that THEY had to have him and not wanting to leave the draft without him, but that CABLE liked him so much that they might not have been able to leave without him. The implication was (jokingly, I presume) that Cable would beat them up if they didn’t draft Hunt.
In the 6th round, it’s probably more the case of taking a flyer on a guy one of your key coaches really likes than saying something about what JS and PC focus on.
KD Cannon cut by the Niners? Interesting competition for camp if the Gawks want him!
Can anyone it and lighten me on how that would happen so quickly? The word on the street was he was one of the great UDFA signing as many people had him On their big boards?
What happened and why wouldn’t the Seahawks want him?
http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/5/7/15565384/49ers-released-kd-cannon-tweets-reports
Comments paint it as an attitude thing
I too would be sour to join a dumpster fire like the 49ers. 🙂
No thanks, this guy sounds like a head case. The whole Baylor program is rotten to the core.
Well? I don’t think they will? Just sayin…
We’re going to have some interesting 2 back sets this year, I think. We could use Lacy as a lead blocker for Rawls or Prosise, or pair Rawls and Prosise for some slippery receiving targets that the linebackers have to account for, opening up space for Jimmy Graham and Doug Baldwin. Lacy and Prosise would be really nice for a play action read, where RW could decide whether to hand it to Lacy or keep it and have Prosise slip out or while Jimmy is running past his guy. Play action in general this year should be killer, especially if Richardson can be a consistent deep threat.
If Rawls can stay healthy and gets back to form = he will be a tremendous running back. If he keeps getting injured I’m going to be left with that sad feeling of another missed opportunity. It is frustratingly hard to identify good players, and then when you do get one, if he doesn’t work out, it just feels bad.
So here is hoping Rawls and the rest of the running backs can stay healthy this year.
Man, Pauline already putting up a 2018 mock if anyone is ready for some names: http://draftanalyst.com/2018-nfl-mock-draft
#takeabreak
If Derwin James last until 17, I would hope Seattle trades up to get him. Superstar at the next level.
+1
Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet · 54s54 seconds ago
Source: The #Seahawks were awarded former #49ers RB Mike Davis off waivers. Stays in the division with a team that pounds it.
Very average player. I guess there was some truth about Seattle’s interest in him when he was drafted.
Bizarre. We have so many running backs and Davis is one of he worst runningbacks of all time. I think he holds a record for lowest yards per carry over a certain amount of carries.
Since Rob is gone for awhile – I’m going to start something for us.
Which team in the NFC West is our greatest threat this year and why?
Which teams in the NFC West and in the entire league do you think will be most improved?
My thoughts, biggest threat is Arizona Cardinals. They have a dynamic team with good passing game and tough defense. But it’s all dependent on Carson Palmer staying healthy, they don’t have a good backup. Did they pick up any QBs for competition?
Most improved, over the entire league I’ll say Cleveland Browns based on shear number of picks. I’m not sure within the west.
Agreed.
If Palmer stays healthy, with that improved defense that was already good, and their coaching staff along with superstar David Johnson, they are still our team to beat in the NFC West.
SF, STL have much still to sort out. Worst QBs in league makes it easy, though Goff ‘should’ improve.
I found the Cardinals UDFA list. They signed Trevor Knight, QB for Oklahoma and then Texas A&M. A real long shot, his highlight was winning MVP of 2014 Sugarbowl.
This is predicated on a pretty substantial “if,” but IF the Rams can get anything out of Jared Goff, I think they could mount a sustainable threat to the Seahawks in the NFC West. Gurley has potential to be a force on the ground, and we have seen what their front seven can do on defense. The Rams are a real question mark this year with the new coaching staff and coaching schemes–I think they are switching to a 3-4 if I remember correctly–but if Goff can actually start playing like a legitimate franchise quarterback rather than a substantial first round bust, watch out for LA this year.
The Cardinals are going to be the most problematic. I don’t think we struggle with the Rams anymore, they don’t exactly have a good offensive line, receivers, or really any skill position players.
The Cardinals will give us trouble because of the defense but I expect the run defense to improve as Jarran Reed improves. I think AZ is also very short in the secondary so we might see JFG moved around to try and force Tyrann or Baker to stay on him in coverage. Without Calaias i doubt AZ is as effective while blitzing.
3000 NFL Mock Draft: A closer look at the Seahawks 2017 rookies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLLAZVI0Wfg
LIVE LISTEN!!
Bonus monday listening! Jump on here fellas
Hubba hubba