John Schneider and Pete Carroll were quick to highlight Ethan Pocic’s versatility and ability to play multiple positions. This is already being construed as a negative by some of the media. ‘Why can’t they just put a guy in a position and keep him there‘. It’s a legit question to ask overall — but arguably not so with Pocic.
The Seahawks are facing a bit of a dilemma over the next 12 months. Justin Britt played very well at center in 2016 and there’s no reason to suspect we’ll see any regression this year.
In free agency the O-line market exploded. It wasn’t a big surprise to see Kevin Zeitler get a five-year, $60m contract. What followed, however, was a shock:
Russell Okung — four years, $53m
Matt Kalil — five years, $55m
Ricky Wagner — five years, $47.5m
Andrew Whitworth — three years, $36m
T.J. Lang — three years, $28.5m
Kelvin Beachum — three years, $24m
Larry Warford — four years, $34m
Ronald Leary — four years, $35m
Mike Remmers — five years, $30m
Such is the desperation for even average O-line play, the NFL emptied their wallets in a mad rush of OTT spending.
What did Kelvin Beachum do in his one year with the Jaguars to justify $8m a year? Has Matt Kalil ever looked like an $11m a year left tackle?
Much of this was provoked by a mediocre O-line draft short on solutions. However, there’s nothing to suggest 2018 will be much better. There isn’t a cluster of top-notch O-liners ready to turn pro. Next years spending could be very similar.
For that reason, it pays for the Seahawks to be prepared to lose Britt.
If he has two solid years as a starting center, it’s not improbable someone will be willing to pay him at least $8-10m a year. The Seahawks are very clinical in how they view the value of their own players. They’ve let others walk for less in the past.
They also face a difficult cap situation. According to Spotrac, they’re projected to have $28.5m in free cap next year. They can save another $11m by cutting Jeremy Lane and Jermaine Kearse — but how much of that free room is going to be used to keep Kam Chancellor and Jimmy Graham?
If you take $8-10m off the board to keep Britt, you probably aren’t re-signing Chancellor and Graham together.
There are other players to consider too. If Luke Joeckel delivers on the potential that made him the #2 overall pick in 2013, wouldn’t you want to re-sign him? What about if Eddie Lacy has a big year? Or Bradley McDougald?
There are multiple players on this roster competing for a payday in 2018.
This doesn’t mean Britt is definitely going to leave. If he has a fantastic 2017 season an $8-10m contract could be justified. He might hit the market and find his value is in the $6m range — and that’s totally affordable.
But it’s not the worst idea in the world to have a contingency plan. By drafting Pocic they essentially have a player who could start at guard or tackle in 2017 and be your center of the future by 2018.
If you re-sign Britt, he stays at tackle or guard.
The benefits are obvious. You aren’t desperately searching for a new center in 2018 and facing the prospect of having to start a rookie. You can start someone with intimate knowledge of Seattle’s scheme.
In this instance — it seems like Pocic’s versatility isn’t just a case of being able to move him up and down the line. It’s a case of being prepared for all eventualities with Britt.
Let’s get into Pocic on the field. I watched three games over the last couple of days — Alabama, Missouri and Auburn.
Here are my notes:
— According to PFF, Pocic hasn’t given up a sack or a QB hit since 11/7/2015 (16 consecutive games). He’s a controlled, balanced blocker and his best aspect is his hand use. It’s really top notch. When he locks on to a block, you rarely see a defensive lineman disengage. He locks his hands inside with ideal placement and executes time and time again.
— Because his hand-technique is so adept, he’s quite a ‘subtle but successful’ blocker in the run game. He’ll turn and control the defender and open up running lanes. He has the hip-torque to manoeuvre defensive linemen when engaged and even against bigger, stronger nose tackles he had success opening up lanes right at the heart of the LOS. Many of LSU’s best runs for both Leonard Fournette and Derrius Guice came right up the gut.
— LSU pulled the center fairly regularly, something you don’t often see. Pocic shows good mobility and patience, managing to get to the second level relatively comfortably. When he gets there he isn’t Garett Bolles. He’s not burying linebackers and safety’s — but he’ll wait for his block to develop and execute. If the Seahawks want to get him on the move at the next level as a pulling guard, he can do it.
— Against Auburn, LSU actually pulled Pocic and had Fournette run behind him to the perimeter (using Pocic as a lead blocker). It’s to Pocic’s credit that he looked completely comfortable in this role.
— There were two issues that showed up regularly enough to mention. Against bigger nose tackles he can be pushed into the backfield. When he has to plant his feet and drop the anchor he can struggle. He doesn’t have the greatest power base in his lower body and it’s an area where he can improve. His height doesn’t help and he will lose leverage from time to time. Montravius Adams had a couple of big wins vs Pocic for Auburn, so did the Missouri interior D-line.
— It’s not a lost cause situation — on a couple of occasions he handled Missouri’s massive nose tackle Josh Augusta (who signed with the Patriots as an UDFA) with great hand placement and hip torque to turn the defender out of the play (leading to big runs for Derrius Guice). With a bit of extra strength in the lower and upper body he can make improvements here. Better to need to work on core strength than teach hand placement and technique from scratch.
— The second problem came against elite get-off. He can be a step slow off the snap at times and if a defender can guess the snap-count or just burst off the LOS he has a hard time recovering even with a guard lined up either side of him. This could be an issue if he ends up moving out to tackle.
— I was expecting a bad performance against Alabama because for the second year in a row LSU were completely shut down in the run game. Leonard Fournette only really had two unproductive games in his college career, both because Alabama’s D-line mercilessly dominated LSU’s O-line for four quarters. Upon reflection, the production probably had more to do with a lack of respect for LSU’s passing game than anything the blockers did wrong up front. Pocic certainly didn’t have a bad game. There were multiple occasions where he played beyond the whistle, blocking down and showed a nasty streak. LSU’s handful of good runs in the game came running behind Pocic at center. He wasn’t shoved back once against ‘Bama which was a contrast to the Missouri/Auburn games. This was a positive performance against the best D-line rotation in college football.
— If anyone was wondering if the Seahawks will be adjusting their scheme any time soon — think again. LSU ran a very clear ZBS and Pocic is the definition of a zone blocker. He’s better in space, he’s more mobile/agile than physical/big and he’s a technique blocker. He’s not a mauler.
— We spent a lot of time talking about explosive traits (and with good reason based on Seattle’s recent drafts). Pocic scored a 2.81 in TEF which was good enough to crack the top 10 for explosive traits this year but it’s quite a bit lower than their previous draft picks. It might not signal a sea change in philosophy but it perhaps suggests they needed this type of skill set on their O-line.
— It’s believed they were interested in Ryan Kelly a year ago. His TEF score was very similar to Pocic’s (2.84) and he too was a very technically sound blocker. He’s perhaps a little less scheme-dependant (Kelly could play man or zone, Pocic looks like a pure zone) but it’s possible Seattle has been looking for this type of technical, athletic, agile blocker. It’s perhaps indicative of how raw they feel they’ve been in recent years — taking very inexperienced, physically superior projects and trying to coach them up. Pocic is much more polished.
— Pocic’s vertical jump and broad jump are very similar to Alex Mack’s.
— For some time now Seahawks fans have been asking for this type of player to be picked. If you wanted them to focus on a technically gifted blocker who will carry less of a learning curve but maybe isn’t quite as explosive or with a ridiculous ceiling, you’re getting your wish. Pocic isn’t going to be Lane Johnson at the next level. He might be a more athletic Max Unger.
— What is his best position? It’s hard to say. He has the agility and footwork plus the hands to potentially play tackle. You do worry how he’ll cope against the elite EDGE rushers of the NFL, especially if they can combine a great get-off with an effective bull rush. As an interior player he does a good job opening up subtle running lanes and he seems very comfortable working inside. Guard for 2017 and possibly center for the long term would be my early projection.
A quick note to finish — Seattle’s most expensive UDFA was Purdue offensive lineman Jordan Roos:
#49ers, #Eagles among big spenders in UDFA. Guarantees include $45,000 for KD Cannon. (Note: Not a complete list. May include offsets.) pic.twitter.com/SYVapDO49O
— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) May 1, 2017
Carroll and Schneider spoke very highly of Roos immediately after the draft, stating he had a draftable grade.
He scored a 3.38 in TEF so there’s a lot of athletic potential here. He would’ve been the most explosive O-liner at the combine (topping Forrest Lamp’s 3.23). His score is so high because of a terrific performance in the bench press at his pro-day:
See for yourself Jordan Roos's 41 reps today on the bench press at Pro Day. #BoilerUp https://t.co/NwMvvMKiKc
— Purdue Football (@BoilerFootball) March 7, 2017
But perhaps the most interesting thing about Roos is the way his appearance changed so dramatically during his time at Purdue:
Carroll and Schneider were very positive about his potential. He’s a name to watch in camp. Seattle might lack a big name, top of the range left tackle. They have a lot of solid competition on their O-line overall though.
Tomorrow I’m going to write-up Malik McDowell and Nazair Jones.
Here’s a nice video breaking down what Pocic does well:
At first I took the drafting of Pocic as a signal that Britt was gone, but once I got to look at some tape, hear from PCJS and think about it, I couldn’t agree with you more Rob. You HAVE to hedge Britt because he could command either a lot of money in FA or a crazy amount in FA. I love the Procic pick for the exact reason you said, I am one of those fans who has wanted a more technique sound, pro-ready offensive linemen over a raw/flawed athletic monster.
I like the idea of offering Britt a solid contract extension this preseason to see if he will take it (never know if he wants to stay here in SEA and wants to play it safe and take the solid offer rather than play 16+ games and hit free agency, risking a big injury like Shead had which can majorly impact his offers in FA). What (if anything) would you offer him as an extension? Something in that $6M APY range?
If I was a betting man I’d say that the FO wants to re-sign Britt but had to hedge him in-case he wanted to leave or took an offer SEA just couldn’t match. But there is another scenario which you touch on, who will have the more starting-ready depth behind them? Britt, Kam or Jimmy? If we can only keep two next year and Procic looks like a quality starter who can take over at center but Vannett and McDougald/Hill aren’t good enough to take over as starters, then you gotta let Britt walk I’d imagine.
——————
We obviously need to see Jordan Roos and all the other linemen play, and who knows what happens due to potential injuries, but I wonder if Roos wouldn’t be able to crack the 53 (likely) but would take Will Pericak’s spot. Pericak was undrafted in ’13 and is 27 years old, I believe Cable loves him as a project but I imagine his ceiling has been reached, and he’s never cracked the 53 once. Move on and make Roos the #1 inside Olinemen developmental project.
If what has been said elsewhere is correct in that Roos has both C and G experience, I think that could parlay into a very competitive chance to make the 53. For the rest of the line, I think Fant, Hunt, and Odhiambo might almost be locked in at depth, with Aboushi in contention for a possible starting spot. Overall, I think 2017 is at last the season that Pericak is the odd man out and ousted.
I would actually think that Hunt is now fighting hard for a roster spot. Pocic and potentially Roos would also be capable and fighting for the backup C role. Given that Hunt is ONLY a backup center and too small to play any other O-line position, he will have a harder time to crack the roster than a player that can backup multiple positions (ie Roos).
That’s very true. I didn’t want to include it, because for the life of me I couldn’t remember if the team ran with two or three C last season.
Two (Britt & Hunt) but Pericak is listed as a C/G on the practice squad.
So it almost seems, then, that the real question of who is going to be the #2 C is who will win at RG: Pocic or Aboushi? If Aboushi wins at RG, it will be difficult then for Pocic to take on Glowinski at LG. That would then leave the T positions, which might be difficult. Because at RT, it sounds like Pete and John *really* want to make Ifedi work there, as was supposed to be the original plan. As for LT, I think Joeckel has been the first-look there since his acquisition.
But with this front office, there again, who knows…
Exactly true.
To keep Hunt a few things would have to happen (not necessarily all together):
1. They’d have to LOVE Hunt and want badly to keep him.
2. Roos would have to be underwhelming and not impress at center for a backup center roll.
3. Pocic wins a starting job on the OL, removing him as a utility backup whose best spot would be center.
4. Pocic is our utility backup but the staff isn’t comfortable with him being the only real backup RT and the only backup center.
If Roos looks like at minimum like a backup G/C then I think right away Hunt is in BIG trouble. Pocic gives you a quality backup center (highly likely better than Hunt already) and that leaves you with asking yourself: “Why would we keep Hunt instead of Roos?”.
One answer I can think of off the top of my head: Roos would probably have a good chance of making it through waivers and onto the practice squad, where as they might feel Hunt would be claimed or may even be ineligible depending on who else they have on the PS.
I think Hunt would be safe through waivers as well. Very undersized. Smart, but small. I think if the Hawks didn’t draft him, he would have gone undrafted.
Rob, all very good points here.
As mentioned earlier, the current NFL FA market for O-linemen is starting to become shenanigans for total dollar amounts. What’s even worse is that it doesn’t bode any better for the future with an ever-increasing salary cap. Who among us could have foreseen the salaries that the likes of Carpenter and Sweezy would command on other teams?
And how do these departures, like others, compare in talent levels to the likes of Britt?
Not well.
So what we’re looking at is a real prospect that in the 2018 off-season, the Carroll-Schneider regime will see what might be their best O-lineman hit the market (perhaps just short of Okung…perhaps). What makes it all the worse is the specific demand for centers in the league. All in all, it isn’t a good situation to be in.
I’d much rather this regime be prepared with a successor (with a rookie season of experience and growth, at that point) than not. Again, as Rob also mentioned, who would trade the prospect of re-upping Britt over Jimmy and Kam?
Going on to Roos, what strikes me as most interesting about him as a prospect is the fact that (from what I’ve heard from Twitter) he’s got both C and G experience. I imagine that retaining Glowinski shouldn’t be too difficult of an affair, so it’s very well possible come this time next season, LG, C, and RG are all tied up and accounted for. This brings us around to whether or not the Ifedi T experiment could, after all, pan out.
In terms of depth, I know I feel a lot better about the options going into this 2017 season than 2016–there is no Sowell, no Webb. So at least the beginnings of getting a foundation set on the O-line might at last start coming together this season.
>In terms of depth, I know I feel a lot better about the options going into this 2017 season than 2016–there is no Sowell, no Webb. So at least the beginnings of getting a foundation set on the O-line might at last start coming together this season.
Agreed.
LT: Joeckel vs Fant vs Odhiambo vs Senior
LG: Odhiambo vs Glow vs Roos vs Aboushi
C: Britt’s job (Hunt vs Ross for backup)
RG: Glow vs Aboushi vs Roos vs Odhiambo
RT: Ifedi vs Pocic vs Myers
On the fringe: Roos, Pericak, Myers, Ross, Senior
Barring injuries I see the only big question mark at RT. Is Ifedi a competent right tackle in the NFL or is he Britt 2.0 at the position? If he is, is Pocic a competent RT in the NFL?
—————————
Ideal OL on 53: Fant, Joeckel, Odhiambo, Aboushi, Pocic, Britt, Glow, Ifedi, Roos or Senior
LT: Fant with Joeckel backup (Fant beats Joeckel, shows big improvement over his ’16 play, is a solid LT his sophomore year)
LG: Odhiambo (Aboushi & Pocic backup)
C: Britt (Pocic backup)
RG: Glow (Aboushi & Pocic backup)
RT: Ifedi (Pocic backup)
PS: Roos / Senior
I don’t know if the staff would feel comfortable without Hunt, but the idea is that Procic is a utility backup and by cutting Hunt a Olinemen can be stored on the 53 to avoid poaching, whether that be Roos or Senior. Senior would give you a little bit more depth at OT and Roos would give you more depth at OG but more importantly, with his center experience he’d give more depth than Pocic at center. But if both could make it onto the practice squad then keep Hunt (if they like him).
The reason why I don’t think it is ideal for Aboushi or Pocic to win a starting job in the interior is because they are new to the team. Glow and Odhiambo know Britt and Russell, them winning the jobs over Aboushi is ideal for that reason. If Aboushi won the job, not only would he be new to our team/line and Russ, but if he played well we we’d have to deal with our good ’17 RG hitting free agency in ’18. Glow is under contract until ’19. Odhiambo is under contract until 2020. If they win and play well we own them on the cheap.
I think Senior is almost guaranteed to get cut and go straight to the PS. Whereas he’s got some measurables I can see the coaching staff liking as a developmental project, most I’ve read about him is that he just put on too much weight in his last season–with a rookie season developing on the PS and with proper strength conditioning and professional nutrition, however, he might be a legit contender as the backup swing T next season.
As for Aboushi and Pocic, I think with both Pocic’s pedigree, flexibility, and draft status (competition be damned, to a certain extent–there is a *reason* he became a 2nd rounder), he’s a close lock *somewhere* on that O-line.
Aboushi, on the other hand…to be honest, I just don’t know enough to be either confident or not on his chances. The highlights I’ve seen on him were quite hot/cold. If he was in more of a T build, I’d like his chances far more given what the competition there is (Fant, Ifedi, Joeckel), but the fight at G is going to be vicious.
To me, Pocic is a Max Unger clone. If you remember, Unger played LT at Oregon before settling in as the Center. He then was used as an OG in Seattle before again settling in at Center. I can see a similar path for Pocic. He may play RG to start with great versatility to play C and tackle, then once Britt gets his pay day, Pocic slides into Center. He is also a leader and personality similar to Unger. Probably more of a natural vocal leader than Britt. I can easily see a future line of:
Joeckel/Fant – Odhiambo – Pocic – Glowinski – Ifedi
Roos beats out Glowinski. Roos can play center also. Hunt is PS fodder. I watched a lot of game tape today on Roos the guy is an animal and a good technician. He does not get pushed back. He had a good game against Michigan St., Notre Dame, Indiana, West Virginia, and Texas.
One thing re: extending Kam and Graham: The TE market seems to dictate his next contract might be lower. With a top talent like Bennett getting $6m/yr, I’m guessing his extension might be closer to $7.5m/yr. Worst case, they tag him for one year, which, for a TE, would be around $7m. Kam is going to be on the wrong end of the age spectrum. I doubt he will get a raise, but rather guaranteed money up front as a signing bonus. Next year’s cap casualties will be the middle class. Many of the young players will assume the bit and backup roles that some of the older ones have. Add to it that we will not be paying a $7m insurance policy called Joeckel that likely was not be resigned when Fant has a second season behind him. Kearse and Lane will likely be gone, although some of the savings will go to Shead.
Why tag someone you barely use?
I like the writeup, thanks.
It’s nice to have a technician. Unger was deemed a player who needed to get stronger, as well. This pick should work out just fine. We have a good amount of competition across the line now.
I went from short cut hair and clean shaven to long hair and beard, myself, so liking Roos is automatic. 😉
How do you see Pocic starting at LG or RG.
I doubt they picked someone in the 2nd round as a hedge against re-signing our only good o linemen.
Not adressed in this article is that if you pick a player as a futures hedge you will then have to hope an existing player who is a backup becomes worthy to start as the line shuffles again or yet again are looking now for the spot vacated by Pocic upon his shift to center because you don’t want to pay a good center after letting him be a bad everything else.
Instead of sweating through your shirt couldn’t you just have looked for a center next year?
Or if Pocic does league average as a tackle that’s actually better than a hedge for the future but then are you really moving him back to center when our tackles have sucked?
I think the real hope is he owns a spot and all the db picks are the financial protection to resign Britt and Graham. Love Kam and Sherman but there won’t be any reason to extend them by more than two years guaranteed after this season.
“Instead of sweating through your shirt couldn’t you just have looked for a center next year?”
Easier said than done Peter. Good center’s aren’t lasting long in the draft these days. There aren’t that many in college either. Plus you might have to start a rookie in 2018 or another project. Better to have someone who has a year of experience under his belt and knows the scheme — and is equally adept at playing guard or tackle if you do end up re-signing Britt.
I agree it’s better to have someone that knows the system than someone who doesn’t absolutely. I am still going to remain guarded about this pick for about two years. It seems that’s the average time to know if any of Seattle’s Oline plans work out.
Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm folks for this pick. He does look good upon further review and maybe, just maybe he’s the keystone that starts to turn the mediocre play around.
Why would we devote a large contract to the center position if we have a young, good center on the roster with a year of development and the cost of a second round pick? The front office also wants a cheap line and cap money freed up for difference makers.
Britt is a good center on a mediocre and young line. He’s not a left tackle. And not a change the field kind of player either. He’s the kind of good but not great player you let other teams sign for a lot of money and you take the comp pick.
Seventies:
Here’s the logic for me:
Pocic plays, any position doesn’t matter which.
Then you let Britt go because of contract costs.
Then you now have to find a replacement on the line for the spot Pocic was playing leaving you filling the Center spot but still down a functional, whole, Oline.
What I’m hearing from the comments is that, that prospect either doesn’t matter and we’ll get there when we get there. OR that a player who was not good enough out compete Pocic this year will then be good enough to reclaim whatever spot Pocic played on the Line.
You’re saying Pocic is a developmental player this year so he doesn’t play? And then we really don’t know if the second round pick from this year can play until the following season? Or he does play this year but then still eaves a void when/if he moves from whatever position on the the line to Cneter.
Two last points about Pocic and this situation: You mention cap savings to free up money for difference makers but who are those difference makers that need to be paid? The old LOB? Running backs that can’t stay healthy? LB’s that are old? I’d argue moving forward that it may be time to pay Oline players even if it’s just two since there aren’t currently young difference makers on the team. As per comp picks I don’t see how it’s worth it to have spent a 2nd rounder on Britt, wait for him to become adequate, spend another second on his possible replacement, to receive a third round comp…
LBs are old? I’m sorry, did BWagz not just turn in a DPOY worthy season? KJ only gets better. What’s with this narrative? Since when was 27, 28 old in the NFL?
It makes perfect sense to draft Pocic as a hedge for Britt, as detailed in the piece.
It’s entirely reasonable given their cap situation that they might not be able to (or wish to) re-sign Britt. Having a backup plan just in case makes sense. I’d agree with you, it’d be a mistake if Pocic was ‘just’ a center. But that’s the point of highlighting this in the article. He isn’t just a center. They’re actively talking up his versatility. So if they need him to be the center in 2018, he can be. If they need him at guard or tackle instead, he can do that too. It’s a hedge plus.
Rob, is there any chance we could franchise tag Britt instead of Graham? I don’t know the #s for center but I imagine it’s around the same as TEs
NOPE. 2017 tag for O-line is reportedly $14.271m while a TE is $9.780m. O-line is much closer to WR tag numbers this year ($15.682m).
Graham currently is on WR number’s when he singed his contract in NO.
Hopefully we extend Graham, Kam, and use the tag on Britt. I’d also have to see the cap numbers. It may be tough to extend Graham and Kam in same year, but the next year we have Clark to deal with, too.
Where would Graham’s value be if he were a bit younger and in this draft? We all saw where Howard, Njoku, and Engram went. Plus, this year’s TE class was the best since the class of Graham, Gronk, Hernandez, Pitta, etc. Graham is a HoF talent. We have to keep him.
We are set at Safety it would seem, if we don’t get a reasonable deal with Kam done. If it came down to it, I’d rather keep Graham and Clark above Britt or Kam.
+12M Clark is a massive priority, Graham is a unique talent and I think we’d be wise to keep him, If not we risk becoming 1 dimensional again. Graham is a game changer and routinely tilts the momentum in our favor. So does Clark. Kam does it less often than he use to, Britt would be really nice to keep but it might just not work out
We’re truly in our first big transitional phase, our big contracts are coming up and we gotta choose who to pay next. I think this draft goes to show it won’t likely be Kam, Earl and Sherm (or at least not all of them) Clark is a cornerstone for a franchise and we need to keep him and McDowell for as long as we possibly can and build around them.
We drafted and signed players that could potentially replace (albeit at a lesser level) Chancellor should his price go too high (see Hill, Tyson, McDougald). Same with Britt (see Pocic). We don’t have that for Graham at all. I think that we HAVE to franchise tag Graham in 2017 unless he gets signed to an extension. If Clark balls out next year, he’d be a candidate for a franchise tag in 2018. Both are unique, impactful, and without adequate replacement. Chancellor and Britt would likely be offered good and fair contracts, but be allowed to walk if they are looking for giant contracts.
Clarkwont hit FA for 2 more years. I imagine they try to extend him before he could hit FA.
I doubt they go the franchise tag route with Graham. And I do think he gets signed for another two to three years at around $9 to $10 million per year. We’re not getting him back on a discount. But I do think he’ll be with us beyond this season.
Love Graham…but paying big money for him beyond ’17 doesn’t seem worth it to me. Should be plenty of lower cost options..
I might feel that way if Gaham’s name was Gresham or Willson. He’s hardly an easily replaceable player.
Britt’s tag would be astronomical so it’s highly unlikely. Graham’s tag could actually be cheaper than his 2017 salary.
absolutely
Graham at $9.8M is a no brainer.
he gives you WR production at a much lower cost. This is why I never understood the “trade Graham” crowd.
I am on board with the Pocic pick just from the standpoint of he is technically better than most of their recent o line picks. The game is too fast for on the field training, and the last 2 years have shown the value of a decent o line.
I am confident that this year the Hawks can have a mediocre to average o line. And an average to above average one the year after. And if they don’t, then we have to look at who is coaching them, because I think there is enough talent and skill there now to not be one of the worst 5 lines in the league.
What is Graham doing for us that’s worth 9.8 million? I know most of his lack of production is due to how we use (or more correctly don’t use) him. But we haven’t figured out how to make him productive in this offense in three years. So what is going to change to make a TE who can’t block worth $9.8M next year?
Fant/Joeckle – Pocic – Britt – Aboushi – Ifedi
Plus, Joeckel or Fant can compete at RT and Guard, too. The best 5 linemen scenario is likely.
I think the guards would be switched, media types said that Pocic is probably best at RG and I believe Aboushi played LG last year. Other than that I agree, this is the line i want. Ideally Glowinski beats out Blank and gets the experience too
God autocorrect is killing me lately lol. Aboushi* not blank
M logic was that Aboushi’s natural spot is RG and Pocic doesn’t have a natural spot outside of Center. Plus, Glowinski may be the first guy to hit the bench from last year. Just guesswork.
I think Glowinski id the guy to be benched. Granted the whole line was a mess but he didn’t ever really try to overcome the crappiness of the situation.
I was not aware of Aboushi’s natural position, all I knew for sure was he played LG last year, i agree with you in that case
I think Glow is a perfectly serviceable OG, but one who is already at, or very near, his ceiling.
It already kind of feels like Pocic is better than Glow. So he could be the natural next guy at one of the guard spots. The question for me is, do we want to slot a known quantity like Glow or Aboushi in the other guard spot – or do we want to go with the higher ceiling in Odhiambo?
Putting aside the issue of Britt’s contract extension, after the Webb/Sowell experience who can quibble with more Oline depth? These guys get hurt pretty regularly particular given our style of play and now you have a backup center which means you don’t have to carry Hunt on the 53.
Because Schneider sweat through a shirt waiting for Pocic to drop to them at 58, you know they think he might be special. Fant is starting. They like ReesO. You never know – maybe one of these guys will finally pop. I don’t remember a lot of optimism on Britt’s switch to center here last year. This line couldn’t be as bad as the last two years, could it?
DON’T JINX IT!
It’s not possible to be that bad when everyone is still so young, have competition for their jobs, and the talent is there. Them simply aging a year will make them better.
https://youtu.be/ZXzy0fosJSc
Solid breakdown of Pocic – worth watching imo 🙂
Thanks Rob for all your hard work and insights! I hope you have a great time away from the draft to spend time with your family.
I think you bringing up Pocic not giving up a sack in a long time ties to why I was hoping for TJ Lang (who like Britt didn’t give up a sack this season) this offseason – if we want to grow Wilson as a pocket passer then he needs to feel comfortable up the middle. If we line up Britt and Pocic next to each other, they have a really good chance at holding off pressure, allowing Wilson to step up in the pocket to make that deep throw to Lockett or Richardson racing down the sidelines. The emphasis to improve guard play is crucial in reducing pressures up the middle.
Imagine if we did get Lang instead of Lacy, our interior line would be nasty.
Lang, Britt, Pocic, that might be able to slow down Aaron Donald. What could have been, right?
I’d rather have Lacy.
Lacy picking up yards after contact and grinding a defense down the way he has at times in the past is also a good way of slowing down the Donald
I was really hoping for Lang instead of Joeckel, actually. I’m fine with the Lacy signing.
Then my ideal OL –
Fant – Pocic – Britt – Lang – Ifedi
If Britt could’ve gotten an extension as well, then the entire O-line would be under contract (Fant if given 1st/2nd round tender) for the next 3 years minimum at less than $65M total (under $22M APY) for the whole group.
Alas, it was not meant to be.
I know this isn’t a Malik McDowell thread, but others of you may also enjoy Matt Waldman and Doug Farrar do, a breakdown (film) of him. Great stuff. Farrar says he saw him win in every gap on the Defensive Line. Bananas!
https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/04/18/rsp-film-room-no-112-dl-malik-mcdowell-michigan-st/?utm_content=buffer6ab0b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
just watched it. Highly recommend it
Pretty excited to now see him working with Bennett and the Hawks coaches
I can see this kid becoming a stud 3 tech.
Doubt he sets the world on fire in year one, but look out in 2018
Crazy how many times they mentioned he needed to learn from Mike Bennett…..I can’t help but value that opinion! They seem to believe this kid is a “generational” talent!
hanks watching it now. McDowell is gonna be huge, this was the best pick I can remember since Russell Wilson. I think he’ll be better than Frank Clark, better than Salomon Thomas, he’ll start at least half the season and dominate by the time the playoffs start. he’s so solid anchoring against the run, he has his bread and butter move, knows how to bullrush, just needs to do it more and learn a counter inside or 2.
What a phenomenal draft we just had.
In retrospect it was a great pick. He has the potential to be the best rookie defensive player this year and a perennial all-pro in the future. And we traded down three times, picking up 5 extra picks to get him. Say what you want about Kevin King but this could go down as one of the best moves Schneider’s ever made.
Agree 100% and not that high on King in R1, vs Griffin in the third. McDowell was a unique opportunity although he was the second in 2 years. Stoked that they pulled the trigger this time and McDowell will be an even better player than Chris Jones IMO.
Haven’t gotten through the entire article yet.
Although I’d qualify the media criticism some. Jim Moore is generally understood here locally as the local idiot on the airwaves. Not even sure why he has a job at all frankly. Other than to really just be irritatingly provocative in a stunted/imbecilic way. He likes to be obnoxiously contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
He’s also the reporter that Sherman got into the beef with last year. Not that he didn’t have a point. But he can definitely belabor issues and otherwise ignore responses entirely — simply regurgitating queries hoping to elicit an emotional response.
Dude knows practically nothing about football at all.
I have a lot of time for Jim to be honest. Some of his takes are a bit reactionary and he’s generally unqualified to remark about who they should/shouldn’t have drafted because I’m guessing he hasn’t spent any time looking at the class.
That said — I saw that tweet because Danny O’Neil retweeted it — and O’Neil wrote a whole article basically saying the same thing. So he’s not alone.
Jim Moore is the hired heel…. like in WWE.. to create a little tension within the radio show.
If everyone says or believes the same thing, then the show is boring. The Groz is the same way.
The Groz is a thousand times better than Bob Stelton.
Moore is a Putz and always has been. The most negative writer ever. He has been bashing the Mariners for year’s.
The Mariners have deserved bashing for years.
Have to echo the thoughts here.
As soon as I heard his name, I was really kind of pissed. Particularly given the talent still on the board, and the talent that was easily within trade reach.
After a short while though, it immediately struck me the strategy going into this draft.
This draft was all about hedges. In almost every way. Malik is Bennett succession hedge. Secondary hedges. Kearse hedge. Rubin hedge. Three late round S hedges for Chancellor.
Pocic is Britt hedge. But with the added value of being Aboushi/Joeckel hedge. Allows Seattle to resign one or two of the three (Joeckel/Britt/Aboushi). Depending on who prices themselves out of next years’ market.
I also see it as a somewhat damning indictment of the Odhiambo selection, who if he were viewed as part of the future, would not have necessitated a R2 pick in order to hedge potential loss.
I think you’re right about Pocic being a hedge of sorts for Britt. He wasn’t drafted just to play a position on the OL, but also to provide insurance if Britt ends up moving on.
Maybe Tedric and Delano are a hedge of sorts against losing Kam and/or ET3. Let’s face it, as long as Kam and ET3 are under contract and able to play, neither Thompson or Hill will see much playing time.
And it’s possible Griffin is a hedge against losing Sherm, although I think they’ll want to keep Richard going forward. In that sense, Griffin is more of a compliment than a hedge.
But I don’t see it for the others. Darboh is a Kearse replacement, not a hedge. They want to shed Kearse’s $5m cap hit for 2018. Tyson (and Griffin to an extent) is a replacement for Lane, so they can shed his cap hit too (interestingly with Lane, they would save the most by releasing him after June 1st next year – $6m).
And for Malik, he’s not a hedge against Bennett. Bennett is signed through 2020, at which time he’ll be 35 and likely done. The hope for Malik is that he’ll be a core player in his own right for years to come. A compliment to Bennett, as opposed to a hedge.
McDowell is our typical ‘swing for the fences’ first pick, chasing prototypical traits
Then a bunch of hedges, order of which arguably follows positional strength:
Pocic > Britt (will be expensive next year, weak position group, hence a high investment)
Griffin > Lane (can cut next year to save $$, shaky depth at position group, high investment)
Hill > Chancellor (another candidate for loss in ’18 due to both age and $$, shaky depth at position)
Dogbah > Kearse (need that reliable mid-sized receiver who can run block, looks like a clear upgrade on paper)
Jones > McDaniels/Rubin (replacing medium class vets with rookie contracts… or… sounds like gets decent push up the middle too, I kind of wonder if Jones and Dion Jordan are partly hedges for McDowell)
Thompson > ET (relatively low urgency, intriguing upside, possibly in the mix for big nickel?)
Tyson > Shead (or even Sherman . . . either way our obligatory developmental corner conversion project)
Moore > Dogbah?
Carson > Injury-prone RB corps
Picks 2-6 all hedge players with a high chance of leaving in the near future, either due to decline in play or cost. I’m sure more went into the decisions, but
(oops sorry for sloppy formatting)
it also seems like a good way to try and get ahead of the curve a little in terms of allocating money over the next couple years.
Considering the sorry state of the offensive line, Pocic is a hedge at all positions. I wouldn’t get too locked into where you think he should play. Most likely he will enter the team as an equal in abilities to Britt and Glowinski, not as strong as Ifedi though hopefully better at picking up stunts, and certainly better than last years tackles.
He is simply a very valuable player that was known for his blocking ability and finishing plays. Both are outstanding characteristics that would be valuable at any position.
I don’t think the Pocic selection means anything about Odhiambo. They were going to take an O lineman this draft. And they selected the player they believed would offer multiple options with regards to expiring contracts. In Ifedi, Odhiambo, and Pocic they have three young cornerstone players.
The Ethan Pocic selection is one I keep on warming up to. Honestly I would rather have a player of his skill set and quality on board than that of Bolles.
Two other picks that have also grown on me are Amara Darboh in the third and Mike Tyson in the sixth. These players, in my mind, can replace Jermaine Kearse and Jeremy Lane, both mediocre players with big cap hits.
I hope Lane and Kearse both miss the roster. Or at least Thorpe.
I would love to see all four defensive backs drafted make the roster.
For example:
Outside/Slot Corner:
Richard Sherman
Shaquill Griffen
Deandre Elliot
Mike Tyson
Outside/Safety Hybrid:
Pierre Desir
Delano Hill
Safety:
Kam Chancellor
Earl Thomas
Tedric Thompson
Bradley Mcdougald
I’d also like to see Elliot and Tyson or Thorpe make it over Lane. I like the idea of letting Kearse and Lane go now, we won’t get any cash this year, but we can keep more of our draft picks that we think can contribute down the line. This draft really set us up to get the best players on our 53.
I know you’re looking at it from a roster-room perspective. But the $$ doesn’t make doing that a good call.
Cutting Kearse now would save only $366K against the cap for this year. Cutting him after June 1 would increase the savings to $2.2M. Waiting until next year doubles the cap savings to $5M.
With Lane, cutting him at any time this year results in no cap savings. The only way to get any kind of cap room from Lane is by trading him. Not likely to happen given his contract size and rather lackluster performance last year. If they cut him next year, it’s best to do it after June 1, when the cap savings would be $6M.
Yeah, barring something incredibly unforeseen we aren’t cutting either Lane or Kearse this year, let alone both.
When cutting, it’s important to consider the impact to the ongoing cap (given it rolls over). Playing Kearse this year and cutting him next year will result in a cost of $5.8M to us. Cutting him now would cost us $3.7M. So by cutting or trading him this year, we would save $2.1M to our cap. After accounting he would be replaced by a rookie contract, the net savings would be around $1.6M. There are also far too many WR bodies that need the spot. Baldwin, Lockett, Darboh and Richardson are pretty much locks, with McEvoy and Grayson very likely to stick as well. None of those could be snuck onto the PS. That would use up all the spaces on our roster for WR. Kearse simply would be the odd man out, as he has no developmental future and fiscally would be prohibitive. I personally am a fan of Kearse ever since 2013, and I hope he goes somewhere and excels, but his roster spot just doesn’t fit with the desire to “win forever”.
Cutting Lane would save $0. Given that he’d be replaced by another contract, it would actually be a noticeable loss. He could be cut next year, but not this year. Also, last year we held 17 LB + DB. We’re probably only going to have 4 LB as opposed to 5 last year, so that gives 13 roster spots for DB. There’s space for an established and healthy starter, who is not great but not bad. He is easily worth a free roster spot.
CB: (7)
Sherman, Lane, Shead, Thorpe, Griffin, Elliott, Desir
S: (6)
Thomas, Chancellor, McDougald, Hill, Tyson, Thompson
They have spots for all their rookie DBs even with every starter from last year. They may end up reducing the total number of DBs down to 12, placing 9 roster spots for the DL, but that would likely via a trade of one of the CBs.
Cutting Lane this year makes no sense. He was playing out of his natural position last year. The position is depleted with experienced players. And the young guys will need at least a year in the system.
Cutting Kearse this year is at least plausible but only if one of the young guys is too good to let go and / or McEvoy has improved and can fill his role for at least half his snaps.
I read nothing but negativity about Jeremy Lane. I get it, he had a bad year. But I understand it is common for players recovering from the ACL injury to not get fully back until year two. I’m expecting a much improved ’17 from Lane, making those ’18 roster decisions even that much harder.
This is what I keep coming back to in my mind…the two year recovery. Its a real thing, and we may very well see a lighter, quicker, more confident Lane this year
+1
Lane was healthy he just is not a good corner….just a good athlete! Always trailing the play…. I can’t understand for the life of me how a guy with his speed and size can’t knock a ball down!
Lane is also a better outside corner than in the slot. His perceived performance will improve merely from making that switch. Improved health coupled with pressure to perform better than last year should help as well.
In regards to TEF, I have a few random thoughts floating around in my head. Forgive me if I’m not fully informed, I haven’t been able to keep up with draft stuff as much in the last couple years.
Anyways, I know a 3.00 TEF is considered the benchmark for potential Seahawk o-liners based on comments made by Tom Cable about what he looks for. Are TEF scores normalized (not sure if that’s the right word?) across the entire group of offensive linemen, or do they even need to be? A 3.00 TEF is a benchmark, but does it represent a completely average o-lineman in any given year?
I guess the only way I can explain better is in terms of baseball stats, like OPS+. An OPS+ of 100 equals the average for all players in the league. Any point above or below equals a % better or worse than that league average. Does the 3.00 TEF represent an average, or just what we think the Seahawks look for?
My thought is that Pocic may have gone overlooked by us since his TEF was under 3.00, but maybe relative to his peer class the TEF would have been some % better than the average. Sorry if I’m rambling, I just have been trying to get my mind wrapped around these concepts again..
I believe it’s what Tom Cable has said they specifically look for in each drill. It’s just their benchmarks averaged. If I remember correctly, a 3.00 can be achieved if they test exactly at our benchmark in each test
It’s explained in detail here: https://seahawksdraftblog.com/tef-results-2017-what-did-we-learn
The best way to explain TEF is it’s a formula created from Tom Cable’s self-confessed ideal physical profile. If you hit the marks (31 inch vert, 9-0 broad, 27 bench press reps) you’ll score a 3.00 and match Cable’s ideal. It’s not a clause-all thing where they’ll only take players who score 3.00 or higher — it was interesting though that for three consecutive drafts they stuck to their ideals emphatically.
Equally interesting is the comment made by pocic. He said he didn’t even speak to cable before being drafted. Maybe they took Cable out of the equation this offseason……maybe.
You think they drafted Pocic without Cable’s input? That seems highly unlikely and not how our FO functions. Their process is collaborative with their scouts and staff. PC and JS have the final say.
Yes this!!!! They have said so in the past. But, many people still think that Cable scouts and drafts every offensive lineman. He has a lot of input, but the buck has always stopped with Schneider and Carroll.
Cable didn’t work Pocic out because they did not want other teams to know how high they were on him.
Exactly Coug.
I think the Seahawks are trying to hide there hand with Pocic a little bit.
I remember a couple years ago he worked out Juwan Johnson at Tennessees proday and it seemed to me that got a lot attention and it made Johnsons stock rise enough to wear he was out of reach for us.
Most draft specialists started slotting him a half round higher then where he was before that
We might have the most complete roster this year in the NFL, especially if someone can step up and be a serviceable SAM
CASH or dion Jordan
They might not have anyone there. It just feels like they dont care. Maybe Kam rolls up in there a little with McDougal on the field as well?
Agreed I don’t see a SAM on the roster as of now. I think the talk of 4-2-5- is really a thing. Drafting Mcdowell and Reed last year, spending high draft picks and not just FA types on the dline, plus the DB haul this year.
Seattle isn’t getting killed in the running game, and they are still geting great pressure with Bennett/Clark/Avril but getting killed with the short passing game from teams that have the personal and when QB’s can step up.
Jordan is 280+ lbs Pete said his position is D line not linebacker.
Rob,
Thanks for the great write up. I hadn’t heard much about Pocic until Seattle picked him. The more I read, the more I like the pick. I think he’s Seattle’s starting RT this season.
LT: Fant
LG: Joeckel
C: Britt
RG: Ifedi
RT: Pocic
That gives 3 out of 5 returning starters who remain in their 2016 positions, and upgrades the other two spots. Joeckel was playing very well at LG last season prior to injury, and Pocic seems like he’d be a great fit at RT. Am I crazy for actually liking the look of that line?
I imagine that they’ll only carry 9 O-Linemen total, so the competition for the 4 back up spots is going to be pretty fierce. Versatility is the buzz word, and that may unfortunately leave a guy like Hunt off the team, since he really only plays at C.
I think your line-up might be right — but suspect considering they mentioned Ifedi going to RT that it’ll still happen with Pocic at RG. I think he’s best suited working inside but he might get a shot at tackle.
Also they keep talking up Odhiambo. So he might end up in the mix too.
I like Odhiambo, and Seattle thought enough to draft him in the 3rd round last year. He seems better on the left side. They even put him out there at LT for a spell and he didn’t do too horribly. My stab in the dark says he backs up LG/LT this season, and starts at LG in 2018, while Joeckel gets overpaid somewhere else.
I do remember Pete saying Ifedi would get a look out at RT. I just like the idea of leaving Ifedi in place at RG to continue to grow and improve. One of Pocic’s “comps” was…Justin Britt – and he started out at RT. I don’t know why, but I think he just might be better out there than Britt.
Again, call me crazy for being optimistic about this line. I guess I’ll never learn.
I’m looking forward to your write ups on our new DTs.
You have more reason to be optimistic. The kids have a year of experience now. That means they will naturally improve (although the pessimist will say they can’t get much worse). The talent is actually there. This looks like a really good line for 2018. However, I’m most worried about 2017 at the moment. That is the gray area. The talent is there – they need to put it together.
Thinking back to Ifedi”s college tape I never thought he would be good at guard. I remember watching his tape thinking this kid is an absorber not a mauler. He should be much better out on the edge!
” I don’t know why, but I think he just might be better out there than Britt.” Pocic’s technique is miles ahead of Britt’s at this respective stage in Pocic’s career
Don’t you typically want a mauler-type run blocker on the right side? That’s the opposite of Pocic. Maybe it’s just because he’s so tall, but looks like he could put a bit more weight on his frame.
They love Rees. I kinda like him too. 🙂
Our coaching staff doesn’t like to start rookies at tackle. Britt was a case of necessity and the following year was shifted to guard. I think Pocic has to beat out Glowinski or Odhiambo to start this year. And even this year I doubt he starts week one.
I think Pocic is our starting center next year. I think there is no chance our FO pays more than $8 million for a center if there is a young Max Unger type player already on the roster.
They started Okung at LT and Britt at RT. I think they are fine starting about any position as a rookie.
And kept Fant at LT when both Sowell and Gilliam were healthy.
I hate this idea.(but I know they would chose it)
Britt is their only deed in OL.
and releasing him means they shuffles OL every years.
He who is young and excellent should have top priority.
They keep players who are great. Guys who are legitimately among the best of the best in the NFL at what they do (Chancellor, Thomas, Sherman, Wagner, Wilson…). They let players go who are good, yet can’t say they are among the best of the best at their position in the NFL like Tate, Irvin, Okung… yet will get paid highly. KJ is one of the only ones they’ve prioritized of this nature. If Britt becomes a Pro Bowl center, I bet they resign him. If he is simply good, he’ll probably walk.
I personally feel resigning Britt is a must. He is our best offensive lineman and as he showed last year he has the potential to be one of the better centers in the league. Letting him walk would put our offensive line back to square one. It’s often brought up that cohesion is one of the most, if not the most important part of a good offensive line. So not resigning Britt just seems like a repeat of past mistakes, which is what resulted in our woefully inept and inexperienced O-Line in the first place. We will never have a good offensive line if we continue to let our best players walk right as they are hitting their stride.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
With O linemen getting paid more each year, will we soon see a shift at college level, i.e. will guys who had played D line be switching over to O thinking there will be less competition for the big bucks?
Possibly. I think the best athletes want to play defense though. More glory, more stats to your name, more exciting position.
I concur.
Seahawks helped bring back the “sexy” of playing defense. And defensive play-makers get paid, no matter the position. OL, you have to play 60-80 plays a game… many defensive players in college rotate in and out…. so they sta fresh, where as a an OL player… you have to love the grind / pain / physicality of the position. I’m not saying it is a generational thing, but perhaps the youngins just aren’t into that any more….
The pass rushing D liners are making more than the O liners.
How about Derrick Nnadi in the first next year? As a Rubin replacement? (Rubin will be a free agent)
I think they bring back graham. 2018 is a not so great class for tight ends.
I think Naz Jones is Rubin’s replacement in 2018.
Naz is more of a Tony McD replacement. Rube is a different player.
I would agree with Eric but still like Nnadi. Rubin is actually under contract through 2018.
Would be a bad pick as he could push the pocket from the 1 tech. Alternatively Daylon Mack if we go that direction.
Sorry…”Would not be a bad pick…
Morgan Moses got a nice extension too.
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
On draft night, the #Redskins signed RT Morgan Moses to an extension, and it’s a big one. 5 years, $40M base, $42.5M max, $20M guaranteed.
I’d be ecstatic to get Britt on this deal.
One thing to consider is that Sherman would save 11 million on the cap if he’s cut/traded at the end of the year.
If Sherman has the same year with his comments and distractions the team could decide that it’s more important to have 11 mil in cap room than to have Sherm on the team.
Also, it could be a better to cut him early than too late situation.
He could also have the kind of season we know he’s capable of — and a year ago, I don’t know about you but I kind of thought he’d retire in Seattle. Still hope that can be a possibility.
I would love to see Sherm spend his whole career as a Seahawk. He’s been stellar on the field. I just hope that everything else doesn’t determine his fate.
Question Rob; it really seemed to me that Sherm guessed on routes this year much more than in the past. And it subsequently resulted in more completions when he was wrong. Is it just me, or does that seem accurate to you or anyone else here? And if so, was it a matter of losing a step and trying to compensate? Was it the knee? Increased feelancing?
Your wright. He did have a knee issue…
I think Sherman had to guess a lot because of the uncertainty at the safety position. They always say who got my back….I got your back. But I don’t think that is the truth when kam and earl arent back there. They truly are all only as strong as the weakest link in the secondary when playing the zone 3 concept!
I think the knee had an impact for sure. Also the loss of Earl seemed to impact everyone.
Leonard Fournette only really had two unproductive games in his college career, both because Alabama’s D-line mercilessly dominated LSU’s O-line for four quarters.
I was going to correct Rob by reminding him of how Wisconsin shut down Fournette last year..then I looked at his game stats..
23 cars…138 yrds…6.0 avg…30 long
well..kind of felt like we shut him down … 🙂
I was looking at our NFC West rivals draft, it is interesting how many offensive linemen they drafted.
Arizona drafted
Round 4 (115th overall): Dorian Johnson, Guard (Pittsburgh)
Round 5 (157th overall): Will Holden, Tackle (Vanderbilt)
49ers didn’t draft any offensive linemen.
Rams didn’t draft any offensive linemen.
I guess the last two didn’t see anyone that would improve on their lines?
Cards made a really solid pick with Johnson
49ers had so many needs.. you needs 2-3 drafts to get them all somewhat filled. What they did draft were some good football players and they have the arrow pointing up (5-6 wins), instead of down (into the toilet at 1-3 wins).
They will improve if they can figure out who their starting quarterback will be. Lets see they have Hoyer, Barkley and Beathard. The first two are experienced retreads with a decent chance of getting the team into the playoffs. Beathard is the great unknown but could be good.
Chad Kellys might be the one to rise to the top….. sooner than later!
Lol yeah right
I’m actually a fan of Barkley and think he can be a decent starter. Not a guy that you can put the game on his shoulders, but can be productive and limit mistakes in Shanahan’s system.
I wonder if we don’t try Glow at center as a hedge for Britt.
There’s little point now, they just drafted a guy who played a lot of center. If they need a hedge, they have one in Pocic.
Glowinski as a back up to starting center Pocic in 2018 sounds like a fantastic plan haha! We’d have a young group of Fant – Odhiambo – Pocic – Glow or Roos – Ifedi if everything works out ideally. Senior would be in better playing shape and the swing tackle. One can only hope!
UDRFA Roos is the OG to watch.
He could be the diamond in the rough for an OL needing some diamonds in the rough.
My problem is trying to figure out how they can fit all of these guys into the OL. I assume 10 will make the roster, but maybe only 9. If the drafted and UDRFA make the team, then someone they paid some coin to as a FA doesn’t make it….. but who would that be?
They have tried turning tackles into guards, time to try guards at the tackle position.
Roos is an outstanding RG who can also play some center. I watched a lot of game tape on Roos today. He play’s with an edge. Watch the Michigan St. game. IMO
Jordan Roos and Justin Senior could both make it if they both beat out Hunt. Roos will have to show he can also play center.
Britt, Ifedi, Odhiambo, Fant, Joeckel, Aboushi, Pocic and Glowinski are the locks. That leaves only one or two spots up for grabs in camp.
I don’t think Aboushi is a lock. Has anyone seen him play?
Lets see he started 10 games for jets and then let go because of a marijuana charge. Played for HOuston Texans. They must have let him go. Aggressive blocker. Awesome Lip Snear.
Hmm
I’ll reserve judgment here on the FA acquisition and just reference Breno Giacomini….I think a lot of us would have liked to have kept him around a bit longer if it was financially possible and he was a cast off, basically nobody before he came here.
In hindsight it would have been nice to keep Giacomini and Unger. They just haven’t been able to fill right tackle since. It seems like things went downhill after they traded Unger and couldn’t find his replacement.
Even if they could have kept one of them I think things could be different for the better now. It’s strange because I love Graham the Player but I’m not sure what he brings is greater than having a stable Oline.
I guess I’ll gladly be wrong this year if the WR corps is not just Baldwin for the whole season leaving Graham double teamed. It just seems like bad luck that since he’s been here Kearse fell off a cliff and Lockett/Prich got injured. OR that….the elephant in the room….the Oline has sucked and especially last year Seattle couldn’t establish a run game to limit Graham’s targets but increase the value of the targets when he got them.
Never post here but have read it for as long as I can remember… thanks so much Rob for making the most enjoyable, smart, consistently engaging sports website I have ever read!
One off topic (to this thread) thought:
Anyone notice how dejected Pete looks in the post-draft press conference? The guy actually looks depressed. Maybe he’s just tired but something about his press conferences and the live draft day footage of the war room (not to mention John’s statement that “sometimes you have some upsets”….something he’s never said before) suggests that they missed someone big that they were counting on like when they were gunning for Russell that year. Anyone know anything more about this or have any thoughts about this?
Perhaps he was just worn out from tension.
My personal opinion was their number two pick was supposed to be Melifonwu, especially once King was gone and they got McDowell. I think they fully intended to take him over Pocic, and then planned to trade up for him a bit later if necessary. Doubt JS made his comment in reference to missing a player after Pocic.
I’m not sure it’s anything too significant here. They might’ve been hoping for Bolles to fall in R1. There were some people suggesting they were hoping to get Moreau in R3.
I thought Pete just looked normal to be honest. He is in his mid 60’s now!
Yes I also wondered about age for a second but I guess I’ve gotten so used to his ageless leprechaun persona that I just dismissed it!
I also wondered the same thing (ie staying put at 56 for Pocic BUT trading up regardless for Melifonwu) and thats interesting re: Moreau.
The player I was specifically wondering about is Witherspoon. I really thought they were going to trade up for him in mid third.
You may very well be right Rob. I’m not claiming any special knowledge, that’s just what I think–and Lord knows I’ve been wrong before! Carrol didn’t seem pleased when Raiders picked Melifonwu, or particularly happy when they took Pocic; add to that the comment about “upsets”–which I think likely wasn’t in reference to losing out on anyone after Pocic, and you can hopefully see where I’m coming from, even though you disagree with my take.
Doesn’t really matter, I’m just bummed we didn’t get Melifonwu, and Hill, Tyson and even Thompson don’t soften the blow; would rather have Obi than all three of those guys.
Overall a good draft. I like the McDowell and Jones pics, as well as Pocic..Roos is a good UDFA pick up…football is a big mans game. If you don’t control the line of scrimmage you won’t win too many games of football. I was hoping for some splashy DB’s but I like the ones we drafted. They all seem like willing tacklers which JS/PC demand
Amara Darboh is going to upgrade Kearse spot by actually making the defense respect him. Kearse never posed a three to the defense therefore he was always single covered and that’s why he got so many balls thrown his way!
I’m excited about Darboh, nice to have a bigger receiver to throw to. It would be great if both receivers made the team.
Draft Stat:
9 out of 14 Seahawks first and second round selections have either been offensive or defensive lineman. Just for future thought when we try to predict. The five who were not. Golden Tate, Christine Michael, Bobby Wagner, Paul Richardson, and Earl Thomas.
Wow! Great stat. And definitely something to consider for the following years.
Cool stat. Tells me to be always focused on the Lines.
Also tells me that Seattle may be better picking players that aren’t Oline men? …..?….I mean Earl, Wagner, and even Tate might all be better than everyone of the Olinemen not named Okung.
Jokes aside I’m going to watch more tape next year just to get a bigger feel for possible candidates. They’ve done a great job moving forward but I doubt the Oine isn’t going to need one piece at least come draft time. And the Dline will still need great players as Bennett/Avril and others age up and out of their peaks.
And all but 1 of their first or second round picks amongst the O-line, Okung was it, are from the SEC.
The D-lineman come from the BIG 10 or SEC, but mainly BIG 10?
Why? Big boy football.
True. Plus until the “tide,” changes, pun intended when you look at Pocic per example even his Meh moments come against the best D in the whole country years running.
I am a pac-12 honk but if you’re an linemen playing in the pac-12 you see one great player every few weeks? UW’s dline last year and maybe this year as a whole unit is the closest you get to a SEC outfit.
As for the Big-10 I think you get the advantage for Defensive players that a lot of those teams run very close to pro-offenses and a lot of ball control so Defenses have a chance to work against NFL like schemes. Honestly I think it would be hard to project a DLinemen who goes against Spread Offenses primarily because how would you rate “gap control,” when it’s all gaps?
Your the man rob great work
Interesting connection here regarding McDowell. We added Clint Hurtt, former OLB coach for Chicago Bears, as a defensive line coach at the start of the offseason. Per Condotta’s article about Hurtt’s coaching experience: “Among the players [Hurtt] coached at Miami is standout Arizona defensive lineman Calais Campbell . . .”
We’ve heard both Pete and John comp McDowell to Campbell, I wonder how big of a role Hurtt has in the development plan.
Nice connection. Can’t hurt having Hurtt teach Malik how to bring the hurt.
Seattle made a good pickup in Clint Hurtt. I remember him as a player for the Canes and also as assistant coach. Very highly regarded including as recruiter. The Dolphins tried to sign him as defensive line coach last year but the Bears prevented it. I have no idea why John Fox moved Hurtt to linebacker coach from defensive line. Misfit. The Seahawks recognized it this year just like the Dolphins did a year ago.
Hurtt probably would be further up the coaching ladder if not for the Nevin Shapiro allegations. Hurtt was prominent in that investigation. He left the Canes as a result, and ended up at Louisville, which is somewhat of a rogue program willing to take chances on guys like that.
Also, I had no idea Josh Augusta signed with the Patriots. That team is simply ultra smart, especially at key positions. Augusta looked great as an underclassmen. He actually helped cover some bets for me with key late sacks. Then he continued to get heavier and heavier, to the point of absurdity. I didn’t understand it. His play really suffered. Then it turned out he had an undiagnosed physical problem which caused the weight gain. Now treated with proper medication. If he can regain his prior weight and form the Patriots have a major bargain.
Good stuff man, love having you here for the outside perspectives
Greenbay cut Christine Michael today. The pundits think some other team will pick him up for less than a million.
Oakland should get him, he’d be a nice change of pace from Beast Mode, since he’s revived his career.
53 Man Roster Projection:
OL: Ifedi, Britt, Pocic, Fant, Glowinski, Joeckel, Aboushi, Senior, Roos, Odhiambo (10)
DL: Bennett, Avril, Clark, McDowell, Rubin, Jefferson, Jones, Reed, Jordan (9)
LB: Wagner, Wright, Brown, Wilhoite, Garvin, Marsh (6)
DB: Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Shead, Griffin, McDougald, Hill, Thompson, Elliot, Thorpe (10)
RB: Rawls, Lacy, Prosise, Carson, Brown (5)
WR: Baldwin, Lockett, Richardson, Darboh, Moore (5)
TE: Graham, Willson, Vannett (3)
QB: Wilson, Boykin, (2)
ST: Ryan, Walsh, ?LS? (3)
Letting Lane and Kearse go 1 year early to keep promising/ high upside players from getting poached. If Dion Jordan doesn’t make it we could add Kearse or Lane back, maybe Skylar Howard. I think we’ll carry 2 QBs again, just let Boykin and Howard battle it out. I put Boykin cause he has a year with us already and probably wouldn’t clear waivers.
I like seeing Kearse and Lane OUT THE DOOR
Me too, only thing about Kearse for me is we might need to start the year with 6 receivers since Lockett likely won’t be ready in time
I think the Seahawks can do better at both positions. The players have got to step it up this year and win those spots for themselves. Seems like the Seahawks have lots of defensive secondary to sort through. Hopefully they will find a couple wide receivers too.
We aren’t cutting Lane. The new players need a year in the system before they can be relied upon. Lane will start the year as our outside corner. Mid season is the earliest I think he is replaced.
We also will carry six receivers. OL will be nine players. LB likely five players.
This projection is also just extremely top heavy with unproven rookies about whom not enough is known. Our FO isn’t likely to go that route. And even a very good rookie class has a 30% failure rate to make the team.
I agree with your TE and DL projections. Think your OL, WR, DB, LB, RB projections are wishful that pretty much all new players will beat out last year’s draft and udfa class who didn’t develop completely in year one (Collins, Poe, McEvoy) and players you want gone (Lane, Kearse) before their replacements are ready.
Who’s to say they aren’t just better than the guys we got last year? Carson has a chance to be a special player, Collins a goal line back at best, Pope a prosise type, not one to carry a big load. McEvoy hasn’t proven anything, most of his big plays came on busted coverages. Elliot, Thorpe, Griffin, Hill, Thompson all would not clear waivers to practise squad. Elliot and Thorpe also played better than Lane in limited action as rookies, quickly cracking the lineup, that should mean something IMO. I didn’t leave anyone out of OL except Joey Hunt. LB needs depth and Marsh is the stand-up pass rusher every roster needs.
Also we aren’t accounting for the PUP list, which could afford us an extra 2 roster spots for Lockett and Shead. Kearse and Lane could be cut then, too.
Joeckel might start the season on the PUP list also. JS presser; Don’t know that he will be ready to jump right in when camp starts.
I think McEvoy has proven enough versatility in multiple phases of the game to be kept. I love Darboh’s story and hope he makes it but right now he’s a body catcher who needs to learn to either use his body to shield defenders or remember that he’s pretty fast and strong to go up and get the catch. I do liek that his production improved year to year which is always a good sign.
But right now just on the surface is he really different than most of Seattle’s WR picks and UDFA’s that haven’t done anything? I”m not sure. And that list is starting to get pretty long.
I mean he hasn’t proven anything. Watch all his plays from last year and tell me you CAN’T replace that. Moore could easily beat him out.
Sorry that was supposed to be a reply yo D-OZ
What do you mean McEvoy hasn’t shown anything? He has shown more than Moore. They usually only keep 9 on the OL. I don’t think Glowinski makes the team. I don’t think Tyson clears waivers either. Last year they kept 4 TE’s. I think they try to keep Tyrone Swoops on the Roster. QB/HB/TE/ Wild Cat. The more you can do, right? I’m hoping he make the team.
I think Tyson makes the team. He’s built like a big press corner and they said they are going to try him out there. Kick step or otherwise Seattle needs a someone who can create more than zero TO’s opposite of Sherman and Tyson has pretty good ball skills.
Why would they cut Glowinski? For Swoopes?! No way.. Swoopes will make it to the PS too easy, he’s in the middle of switching positions.
Lanes 2017 salary is guaranteed. We would just waste cap space.
Correct, what we would get though is none of the guys we want to keep beyond 2017 would get poached by other teams while on their way to the practice squad. I’d pick Elliot or Thorpe over Lane all day considering Lane isn’t going to make it past this year. We could keep Kearse over Moore, although Moore seems like he wouldn’t make it to the PS
Greg, Lane is still holding a roster spot. If someone else is better then we should move on regardless of cap issues. 2 cents.
Not when moving on results in $7.5M wasted cap space. And as been mentioned before, 2017-18 will be Lane’s second season post injury. Look for him to improve, especially outside.
We would still get the cap savings next year.
No, we get no savings (actually a loss) if we release this year as opposed to next. We also don’t need to set aside his roster spot – we will likely carry 12-13 DBs and can easily fit all the players we need (no McCray, Cox, or new UDFA). I’ve covered it elsewhere, but our cap space for both this year and ongoing would actually be worse if we cut Lane now before the season. Given all his cap space this year is a sunk cost, cutting him now would give us about $500K LESS cap next year than if he just stuck on our roster. He can be cut next offseason.
Cutting Kearse, after accounting for being replaced by a rookie contract for salary cap, would cost us $4.1M if cut this offseason or $5.8 if next offseason. So JS would have to decide if him playing this one season is worth not playing a different WR + $1.7M more in cap space for next year. We are crammed for WR roster space, so we’d need his roster spot for another player.
I didn’t know we’d lose that cap $, thanks for clearing that up. In that case, I change my mind.. lmao. I guess we’ll just have to risk losing a couple of these guys, I’d rather do that than not be able to extend one of Kam, Britt or Graham
Neither Darboh nor Moore will beat out Kenny Lawler, let alone Kearse. Watch the highlight tape. Darhoh is a body catcher. Everything is against his pads. That will not work in the NFL. This is why he went undrafted. Lawler’s tape is full of spectacular one handed grabs deep down field. There is very little tape on Moore but what does stand out is he was caught from behind after an open grab in the middle of the field at a much lower level of competition. Kearse, has nothing to fear from either of these guys. The question is how much has Kenny Lawler improved in the last year?
All good points, we will find out in about 4 months or so.
Lawler is slow as molasses, we’re going to have to give Russell 5 seconds to wait for Kenny to get deep. The same reason we dont throw the jump balls to Graham like NO did. Darboh and Moore fit our offense. Also, Darboh didn’t go undrafted? We picked him in the 3rd? Also, Darboh can make one handed grabs, so I’m pretty sure he can pick up hands catching.
Lawler is too skinny also. He was on the practise squad last year and we picked Darboh and Moore higher than Lawler in a better class
+1
Lawler’s best chance to make the roster is as a 3rd down/red zone specialist.
Way off on Darboh. He will beat outKearse easily
Body catcher? I didn’t see that on tape. IMO
Tyler Lockett is still a body catcher. Darboh has burner speed and great hands. I think this draft was trimming the fat
+1.
I still have hopes for Lawler also. 6′ 2″ with 33+ inch arms and 10″+ hands (PC has commented on his great hands). His strengths seem to be good route running and short area quickness. Seems his niche would be possession receiver/red zone threat.
This should be fun to look at in September. I’ll take a way too early stab at this.
OL: Fant, Joeckel, Britt, Ifedi, Pocic, Glowinski, Odhiambo, Aboushi, Hunt (9)
TE: Graham, Willson, Vannett (3)
RB: Lacy, Rawls, Prosise, Collins (4)
FB: Algernon Brown (1)
WR: Baldwin, Lockett, Richardson, Darboh, McEvoy, Grayson (6)
QB: Wilson, Boykin (2)
DL: Bennett, Avril, Clark, Reed, Rubin, McDowell, Jefferson, Jones, Smith (9)
LB: Wagner, Wright, Marsh, Wilhoite, KPL, Arthur Brown (6)
CB: Sherman, Lane, Griffin, Thorpe, Desir (5) (Shead PUP)
S: Thomas, Chancellor, McDougald, Hill, Thompson (5)
P: Ryan
K: Walsh
LS: Frese
PS (10): Howard (QB), Swoopes (TE), Roos (G), Palacio (LB), Carson (RB), Tyson (CB), Moore (WR), Senior (T), Pace (DT), Pope (RB)
Cyril Grayson and Algernon Brown are my “dark horses” to stick on the team. I think Pierre Desir makes the roster as the 5th CB, until Shead comes off PUP.
I don’t disagree with much, Elliot>Desir IMO. If we could get all those guys to the PS it would be great! I don’t think it’s likely, though.
Del Tre, they aren’t cutting Kearse or Lane this year. It makes zero sense. Too much dead $. Sorry guys they’re safe for the year.
You think Roos, Elliot or Moore could pass waivers? I think it makes sense cause if you pick Lane over Elliot and Elliot gets claimed, you’re not gonna have Lane or Elliot in 2018.
I think a guy like Elliott, and I like him, is easier to find then s Lane. That’s just me though.
As for Roos and Moore? Depends on how much or if they play this pre-season. With some of these guys, you don’t want to play too much because then you put tape out there for other teams.
I’d rather see them trade Kearse, wouldn’t mind them keeping Lane, good corners are hard to come by. Lane is better than a lot of people realize. Trading Kearse could get us a 6th or maybe even Josh Gordon
i think the market for Kearse is zip!
The hawks have paid more for players who have produced less
I think it’s something where we’d be happy after the first few weeks of the season but then after the season we feel like we should have kept the young guys. Exactly what happened with Jaye Howard, now most everyone here regrets letting him go
Glo and Hunt to PS.
Glowinski stays on the 53 or is cut. He has too many games to go to the practice squad.
I don’t see us taking 6 Linebackers. Pete C has already expressed his interest in playing much more Buffallo as our base (4-2-5) this year which would mean only having 2 LB’s fielded and 5 db’s. With Wright and Wagner both filling those 2 LB spots apart from in Sub paclages I Imagine we only take 5 LB’s to our 53 man roster maximum
+1
I could have put Marsh at DL. He’s not even really a linebacker, just the pass rushing SAM we must have on our roster
Yeah you’re right I was being a tad nit picky, but I can tell you something we both will agree on. Our DL this year will be giving people fits. 3rd and 6 having Malik in a 3 technique blowing up the pocket with Reed, Bennett and Avril screaming at the QB from the edge. Malik will be moving the QB which is what we have been missing recently, causing panic throws. I see our interception rate going back to 2013 standards
Good call Coleslaw on the final 53. However, Boykin may not be around due to his legal issues. I would look for one of the udfa QB’s to take the #2 spot. Don’t really see a vet coming in for the job.
Thanks man! That would suck, but I wouldn’t mind Howard one bit, he’d be a nice project, huge arm!
Does anyone think they may have a look at Hunt being the long snapper? I wasn’t impressed with Freeze…. Hunt knows the system and they did use him as the tightend in the jumbo package.
Rob, love the blog. Thx for your tireless work.
Can Hunt run and tackle? The situation with the long snapper was such a joke last year for a position you should never even think about.
Some of the Joey Hunt hate is that he was initially listed as 6-0 on the Seahawks roster, that has been corrected and he is now listed at 6-2, pre-draft he measured at 6-16, or just shy of 6-2. He probably looks small lined up with their 6-6+ OL guys. As an OC, I think he is technically sound and his limited snaps seem to have been pretty decent, he uses his shorter size to his advantage in leverage blocking.
Some things I’ve often wondered is:
(1) Why do teams even have a separate player for long snaps, when the OC’s basically have a similar job, why shouldn’t the backup center also train & be competent as a long snapper? The backup OC is usually on the game day roster in case of injury to the primary, so why can’t teams save a game day roster spot and use their backup center is the long snapper? I think Hunt could easily handle long snapping with a little training, he has shown to have a quick, accurate and very fast snap from what I’ve seen.
(2) Why can’t a place kicker also be a punter potentially saving another roster spot? Granted, the two are somewhat different in application but why can’t the place kicker learn 2 jobs for those limited number of snaps involved and plenty of off-season time to cross train for both jobs? The two game day roster positions added could be utilized in many ways and allow a lot of flexibility to the coaches on game days. I’m not sure if there are any previous attempts of kickers doing this, at least in the NFL, but why hasn’t it?
This would be a more efficient use of personnel if it could be pulled off. I have seen, in the NFL occasionally that when either punter/placekicker gets injured in a game where one backs up the other although that hasn’t happened a lot but is indicative of the possibility of one player for both positions.
I think (1) above is more realistic, but there may be some merit to the consideration of (2) but, only If you could find a unique kicker that could do both really well.
I agree with you on combining snappers. Never made sense to me to use a different guy. If it is the backup center that is close enough to combining.
There are a couple reasons teams have separate long snappers.
1) What happens if your longsnapper is playing on special teams or offense and gets hurt? Does your team have a backup longsnapper? If not, you’re kind of up a creek without a paddle on that one.
2) If your backup C is your one and only LS, it takes away from versatility. Now your backup C has to be active on every gameday and takes up a roster spot so that you can’t gameplan accordingly. It’d be especially tough on the Seahawks who proved by drafting Pocic that they’d like their backup C to be versatile playing other spots.
The thing that hurts Hunt is if you only suit up 8 o lineman on game day you need guys who can play multiple positions.remember Rees was playing right guard against the Falcons in the playoff game.he is way more comfortable on the left but that’s what happens
You’ll still carry 9 O-lineman. And let’s be honest. There will be injuries amongst the trenches.
Just nit picking, but does anyone have David Moore’s arm length, hand size, and wing span? Oh, yeah, and how old is he?
Pocic: Does NOT panic. At ALL. Very rare to see in a college O-lineman. Much like what I look for in WRs. Too many of them panic and bail toward the sideline. Pocic does not. Very cool, calm, and collected.
Agree about his lock out technique. Great grip strength. He gets full extension with those strong a** hands and fully extends? Dudes ain’t getting off that.
And his anchor. Could use work, but the thing I like? He can reset quickly. And that’s gonna happen a TON at the next level. These pros will work these rookie O-lineman’s feet. But unlike Ifedi, who’s feet are a mess, Poicic may get beat, but he’ll recover nicely.
Great pick. Versatile, tough, assignment sound, very nuanced on the little things. Might not have been one oif the sexier names, but he’s super solid with the potential to be a multiple year + starter.
Busting your chops alert!!!
We’ll see right? I mean a case can be made that Seattle yet hasn’t picked an linemen that didn’t need two full Seasons to develop only to begin looking for that player’s upgrade in the draft the season they finally get it together…..minus Okung.
I’ve got hopes but they’re way more tepid than most of the posters. I mean Seattle said a version of Pocic’s comments about Britt and how they couldn’t leave the draft without him…..
I like Pocic’s tape, I like his potential and honestly if it had been any other combination of people making this pick I’d probably be more optimistic.
I like the foreward thinking of general manager and coaches. Instead of having their chosen player struggle in two different positions before they find a home, they pick a player that has already struggled at two different positions – and won the battle. Kudos to PC.
Love how PCJS are willing to overlook Pocic’s length because it is offset by iron grip hands and uncanny ability to latch onto the target.
“For some time now Seahawks fans have been asking for this type of player to be picked. If you wanted them to focus on a technically gifted blocker who will carry less of a learning curve but maybe isn’t quite as explosive or with a ridiculous ceiling, you’re getting your wish.”
I have been on record here numerous times expressing the above opinion just to be told that there are no “technically gifted” offensive linemen available where the Seahawks pick and that all that is left is for them to pick TEF warriors and teach them from scratch.
I also stated that as a volleyball coach for decades I have come to believe that learning proper technique and implementing it while in the heat of battle is a trait that some players have and others lack. I stated that after a few years of college coaching, a player that does not exhibit the polished technique his coaches teach will most likely face a long learning curve at the pro level.
After taking some time to learn about Pocic, he looks like the poster boy for “lets try something different” and the fact that TC did not meet him may indicate that he could be a JS pick.
He is the perfect candidate to try and see how the alternative path works. He is both a very technically sound player (amazing hand work and good feet) and a very smart zone blocking player with understanding of the full OL picture and his role in it. He is the closest I have seen to a day 1 offensive line rookie.
If he works out, it may be the start of a change in OL draft criteria for the Seahawks. One that i will personally love to see.
Who cares if he didn’t meet him. If fans think TC didn’t break this guy down, study him and assess then they are highly mistaken.
This thing is quite common. Happens all the time.
After thinking about it, he’s a PC pick. Ed Orgeron anyone?
He was the guy sweating in the Green Room’s pick. The pressure was on Snyder. It was his pick…
I’m sure there was a lot of other input as well.
Good call about the PC-Orgeron connection. I bet they had a long conversation about Pocic that eliminated the need for them to meet the player personally.
I agree Vol I am sure Pete and Orgeron had a nice had about him and no way the Hawks would take him without some quality feedback.
Poker strategy? And what about meeting Obi 4 times and then it comes out Malik was the primary target all along? Great misdirection trolling by PCJS!
I think there’s a temptation to translate every visit that didn’t lead to a player being drafted as a smokescreen or a misdirection.
It’s more likely they spent a lot of time trying to work Melifonwu out as a character and person and simply decided he wasn’t the man for them. Or — that their meeting with McDowell told them he was their man instead.
I typically am successful at resisting that temptation. 4 visits is enough to inspire me to ask the question, but not to assume I know the answer.
This draft really sold me on one huge thing. They’ll take prospects with flaws all damn day. Managble ones. You work around them and secondly it allows you to get value which is what the draft is all about.
For sure! Every time I bag on someone for having a bad trait I just think of Sherman, he’s a mid 4.5 runner, yet the only DBs I’ve seen really give him trouble consistently is Odell and Julio. The dude just fits, we made it work and now he’s the best corner in the league. That’s why I’m particularly excited about Tedric Thompson, he could be really good in some 2 high safety looks with earl, and as a nickel. I think he finds his way onto the field this year somehow. Kris Richard will cook something up for him
The Sherman case is simple –
He is 1-2 tenth of a second slower than the blazing CBs. His mind is 1-2 tenth of a second faster than most CBs. He is able to learn, recognize and react faster, he can see were the ball is heading in flight with a quick glance. That makes him faster to the target.
The Sherman case is mostly built around one vital thing. He will track the ball and fight for it – and he has good enough hands to intercept.
This is a massive difference from some other cornerbacks on the team that choose to face guard instead of tracking the ball. Face guarding can be effective, but usually doesn’t offer the opportunity to intercept unless you can rip the ball away from the receiver.
Yes…Sherm is the master at getting his eyes back to the QB and then all that length and hops as the ball arrives!
Thompson has a shot to be the best backup FS we’ve ever had here behind ET.
And in the 5th round, where Sherm was drafted, it becomes less about speed. Now you’re looking for guys who fit your system and style.
And much like Shaq Griffin, who has some of the most Seahawky tape for a CB outta anyone in this draft, Sherm is perfect for the press and bail technique. Because that initial jam at the LOS or armbar 2,3 yards off the LOS slows the WR down to where you can now match him step for step. Or at least come very close.
Or they release the WR into ET’s third of the field and he’s a roadrunner. Meaning he can cover hash to hash in the blink of an eye.
I read Hawblogger’s take on the draft, and at the bottom of his “meh analysis” he only mentioned Thompson long enough to say that he felt that it would be a struggle for him to make the team.
Really, Brian? Let me counter your meh with a meh on your meh. Thompson is not only making this team, Thompson might be a future starter down the road.
Hawblogger has turn into a nega-fan site for a while now.
Yeah, I would kinda agree with that. He also doesn’t post all that often there any more, another reason I don’t frequent it anymore. His closing words on his analysis I found particularly arrogant, as if he and his analytic buddies know more about these players than Schneider and the organization.
Tedric is like Marsh, but at FS – a player who could start for a lot of NFL teams in his own right.
Of all the DBs they drafted not named Griffin, I think Tedric has the best chance to see significant playing time at slot/Buffalo.
+ 1 I think he is definitely a candidate for that role and could have a real impact given his ability to turn the ball over.
I Thompson was one of the smartest defensive players in the draft with a real feel for the game. He defintitely played much faster than his 40 time. Much like Kam and Sherm who play much faster when the live bullets are flying because of their intelligence and ability to read plays.
Fantastic post Rob, really well put as to why the emphasis on versatility makes sense for Posic, even if fans (like me) who’d prefer starting OL who are good at their regular position, are right.
“Better to need to work on core strength than teach hand placement and technique from scratch.” Great point and if Cable and crew are thinking this way, I’ll be glad for the change. I will say this though, I would prefer Pete and John to emphasis something like hand use, or any other positive attribute, then to say he’s good at multiple positions. Versatility in Posic’s stuation, does seem important but I’d hope that first and foremost they want someone who’s good at blocking. Versatility for some of the other players, I don’t know. I’d rather have Ifedi be so good a RT, that sliding him inside to guard would never be a thought. I’d rather have Glo be really good at LG, than familiar with all 3 positions. I never want to see Paul McQuistan again, he stands out to me as a historic Seahawk, the king of versatility, durability and low performance. The scenario where we keep Britt but move him back to Guard or Tackle would drive me up the wall.
I’m on board for Posic and LOL at the before & after.
They did mention some things. But, you don’t want to give away everything then you lose your competitive advantage when it comes to their scouting.
They liked the way he came off the ball and Rob mentioned that’s what he also saw in this piece about how he easily climbs to the 2nd level.
They did to be sure but the emphasis was versatility. Would rather see them get excited about a OL because of his play but ‘ll concede it makes sense here.
It seems that i am the only one who thinks that Pocic will be starting center in 2017.
No your not. 🙂
Why would he be? What happens to Britt?
I’m skeptical that SEA would move Britt to any other position. Then again, they preach open competition in TC, so if Pocic dominates at C, then it’s possible.
I think it is a distinct possibility. Last year, Pete said Britt would have had a breakout year at G or T, not just center because he finally became consistent at keeping his pad level down. I expect much improved Oline play this year and a return of our MIA smash-mouth running game.
While I very much agree with your point Rob (that Pocic is a hedge against Britt getting away, because it’s just the smart thing to do) I don’t think Justin Britt is going anywhere.
1. I think they just really really like him. Has anyone ever heard anyone on the coaching staff give a less than stellar review of him, even when he was clearly struggling? This has to engender some level of loyalty, and I unless Tom Cable goes elsewhere I would think Britt would prefer to stay if the numbers are close.
2. He is their most experienced O-lineman and is constantly praised as being the best communicator in the group. Do you want to rip that out of the middle of things when Pete has plainly stated, “With this young group we have right now we’d like to keep these guys together and really build with them, we think we really have a nice nucleus right now, they’re just so darn young.”
3. They FINALLY found his niche. After all the trials and tribulations he’s finally a valuable asset. It’s just human nature to want to hang on to that asset more than ones that came easier, all other things being equal.
PC also mentioned that Okung, Unger, Sweezy had to go because of cap problem. And the way he said that made me on conclusion that they are already aware that it will be very hard to re-sign Britt.
I think that it is the only reason why they draft Pocic. He will be Seahawks starting center of the future. If they think that they can re-sign Britt, they could use 2nd round pick on some other position and get a better guard(but who can not play center) than Pocic in later rounds.
I’ve no doubt they like Britt — however, they’ve consistently judged value. Ideally they would’ve kept Tate, Okung and others too. But they would rather keep Wagner, Kam, Russell, Bennett etc. And if Britt is in that $8-10m range he’s suddenly one of the highest paid players on the roster which probably is a bit rich. They will have to make a big decision somewhere. They likely can’t keep Kam, Graham and Britt. So they could re-sign him — but it’s no lock. And having a hedge is vital IMO.
What do you think Kam will command given his age and style of play? I have a hard time picturing Britt getting $10, but then again I didn’t think anyone would give Matt Kalil $11 so…
I think Jimmy Graham will either walk or get tagged, which may leave his salary right where it is, or even bring it down a bit.
Possibly as much as any strong safety currently. A deal similar to Jones in Miami.
If it’s between Kam and Britt, give me Britt every time. Kam is going to be 30 by next season and has missed games routinely for the past 3 years. While Britt is only 25 and could be the anchor of our o line for the 5+ years.
Kam is the heart and soul of the team. Seattle’s Ray Lewis.
I to am going with Britt, sorry Kam is breaking down, tough call but that’s why John and Pete make the big bucks. Looks to me Britt is the heart and soul of the line.
Didn’t see any breaking down last season. He was as good as ever.
So was Beast Mode. That last contract was a waste of CAP money…in hindsight. The Patriots always seem to part ways with great players just BEFORE the falloff. That said, I don’t know what PCJS should do. I don’t have the information they have. Their actions clearly demonstrate their thinking and it’ll be interesting and painful to watch them make some brutally hard decisions.
I think we’d all agree though that they had to keep Beast Mode?
It’s very difficult to mimic the Patriots. In fairness to Belichick and Brady — they can pretty much do whatever they want. With those two in town (and with the rest of the AFC East remaining a circus), they’ll always be competitive. Seattle is a very different animal. And losing Kam would have a major impact on the team in a way I suspect even Marshawn couldn’t replicate.
I think drafting OL will be like taking vitamins going forward for the Hawks. Take 1 regularly or at least 1x a higher pick per draft.
I’m guessing this would be good way of consistently having at least 4 cheap starters each year that hopefully most remaining on their rookie deals and are not up for a new contract. Effectively once the pipeline settles you’d have 1 new starter each year which would be good from a continuity perspective. This seems like the only way to manage turnover effectively in what is a very expensive/overpriced, 2nd contract market for the position.
Love that they are doing this in other high cost positions, namely WR & DL.
A deep pipeline from multiple picks also means:
-Depth to address injuries is better
-Learning curve better to teach their philosophy & pass on knowledge from pro-bowl player to rookies
-Cost of depth is cheaper
-Lower risk of overspending or not getting value on free agent ‘stopgaps’
-Less of a future requirement for 1-year stop gap deals
-More optionality to find & produce multiple valuable players, which in turn means more picks via FA comps, trades etc.
I actually think this is the plan that you have outlined. This rotation, because of comp picks. My only wonder going forward is how does this continue if Wilson’s natural projection is to slow down and run less every year. At that point do they prioritize the Oline more?
And does the Oline become more cost effective if the highest paid players age out of their contracts?
I think a lot of this might likely depend on how things shake out with Richard Sherman after 2017.
1. If Sherman and organization have been able to mend up things, and continues to play at a high level, and Britt plays another solid season at center, Seattle might decide to let Britt test a market that he would likely find a price that Seattle might find really difficult to match.
2. If Sherman comes in and holds onto his disgruntled perspective throughout the season, Shaquill Griffin and maybe one of the other young corners start to emerge into players ready to start, and Britt has another really good year at center and is the undisputed leader of an improved offensive line, it wouldn’t be a total shocker if they part ways with Sherman to free up for investing in Britt, and extending one of Chancellor or Graham.
If I were a betting man though, just off of what Carroll was saying the other day in relation to tough decisions they’ve had to make about players they really liked but let test the market, it feels like Pocic is a definite clear hedge for Britt’s market.
Maybe this was already discussed in the comments somewhere, but in hindsight the Malik McDowell pick makes so much sense. Schneider reiterated in his post-draft pressers that they’re continuously scouting guys against their own roster. Keeping that in mind, the difference between McDowell (as an interior rusher) and anyone else currently on the roster is greater than any other position SEA could have drafted. Let’s just look at CB and T, since those were the rumored other choices in Kevin King and Cam Robinson.
Taking CB first, it’s been shown in the past that CBs having an early impact in this defense is an outlier. They need to learn the step-kick technique in order to be trusted. In addition, the defense was actually still very good up until the Earl injury. He’s the true key to the defense, not the shutdown corner. That being said, we still have Sherm for at least one more year and possibly 2 if he plays out his contract. Would it be nice to have another top CB to step in after him or potentially have 2 great corners? Of course. Would this corner really be that much of an upgrade in year 1 over Lane or some of the other guys? That’s debatable.
Heading over to T, how much of an upgrade would Cam Robinson have been over anyone on the roster? We all questioned this ourselves on the blog. Robinson seemed to be similar to Ifedi, only at LT. Fant was not good last year, I think we can all agree on that. Joeckel was brought in as a hedge. Neither of those seem like great options, but is the talent disparity between either of them and Robinson as wide as the interior rusher situation? Again, doubtful.
Pete and John said themselves that they’ve been looking for an interior rusher since they got here. McDowell’s flaws (continuing the discussion from Vol up above) allowed him to be taken in the 2nd round when he arguably has top 10 talent. What other DT on the roster can get consistent pressure on the QB? This is why McDowell makes so much sense. The talent disparity between him as an interior rusher and anyone else on this roster is greater than at any other positon. Hindsight is 20/20.
I’d also like to throw a thanks out to Rob and everyone else on this blog for all the hard work in draft season. This site makes it easy for someone like me who doesn’t have enough time to scout all these guys myself to feel knowledgeable about the likely options available to SEA. Good stuff.
Totally agree, it is a risk worth taking for a potentially great 3T. Especially if they felt the drop off at OL & CB from 26 wasn’t much with respect to picking Pocic & Griffen later rather than taking Ramcyk & King.
McDowell could greatly improve the play of our amazing DEs and overall pass rush, as well. So many times last year, QBs would step up in the pocket to avoid our edge rushers and fire a completion. Late in games, Bennett would often be double teamed. McDowell has the potential to have a big ripple effect impact on our defense!
John just interviewed on KJR and mentioned an interesting scenario. He said the Seahawks had a trade up arranged because they liked two players at a certain position, but his two guys went back-to-back just before the prospective trade up position. Looking at the draft, this is almost certainly where the two TEs Jake Butt and George Kittle went back to back at the top of R5. So John had a trade up in the works to land one of them but just missed. (Were they trading next year’s R4, or would his two R6 picks this year have allowed him to move up to the top of R5?)
That interview was full of a lot of candid information, I suggest everyone listen to it.
In addition to the double TE, there were double OG in the 3rd (Dawkins and Moton) and double WR in the 4th (Reynolds and Hollins). The TE scenario makes the most sense.
Going back to the interview, the biggest nugget I took away was when John mentioned how they had 7 picks in the first 111 and 6 of those were graded 2nd round or higher. Shows how differently they grade than the rest of the league.
Talking about the nickel CB situation, Schneider mentioned Hill and Tyson but also threw Thompson into the mix. He continued to say Tyson is an “outside guy”, but has played nickel before. Schneider also said Hill could be a press corner, unless I heard him incorrectly. The biggest thing for him about the DBs is that all of the get their hands on the ball and have an aggressive style.
Also mentioned RG, RT and obviously C for Pocic. My boss walked in at that point so I missed the rest of the interview…
I wonder who wasn’t. Thompson? (As far as grades)
I was curious about that too. I would lean towards Thompson or Darboh, but I don’t really have a reason to back that up. Just that those were the last 2 picked and you would think they would pick their highest graded guys first. Thompson could still be 2nd round grade though since the DB draft was very deep. Maybe Naz? Getting their highest rated DL left before the cliff, but not necessarily graded higher than their next few picks?
Maybe he was just throwing that out there to make the guys that they picked feel better. He also cotradicted himself when he said something to the effect of wishing that they had had a fifth round pick
How would wishing he had a 5th round pick contradict himself? He clearly didn’t like the long break they had between their 4th and 6th round picks. I’m sure there were a lot of players they liked that went in that range.
“Going back to the interview, the biggest nugget I took away was when John mentioned how they had 7 picks in the first 111 and 6 of those were graded 2nd round or higher. Shows how differently they grade than the rest of the league.”
This is really strange because when journalist asked PC and JS (3rd day press) was there any “steal” PC looked at the paper and said NO.
Makes sense. He also mentioned something about not liking missing a 5th the day after the draft. Probably related.
The more I watch Pocic the more I like him. My initial reaction was an LSU OL prospect Yuck!
He is exactly they type of fundamentally sound OL prospect we have all been wanting them to draft in the Tom Cable era. I think he actually has the chance to start early in his career at one of the Guard positions and as Rob so clearly pointed out is a great hedge in case Britt walks.
I have never had a problem with Cable as a coach but thought he was an awful talent evaluator likely because he thought he could do more with these guys than he really could. It seems pretty clear that while I am sure Cable was on board this was a JS pick. It will be interesting to see how it works out. We have explosive athletes across the OL so him not quite making the TEF cut off does not really worry me.
As I see it know
2017 OL
LT Joeckel / Backup Fant
LG Glowinski / Backup Odihimbo
C Britt / Backup Pocic / Roos
RG Abousah / Backup Pocic Roos
RT Ifedi / Backup Fant
PS Squad Hunt, Senior
2018 OL
LT Fant
LG Odhimbo or Roos
C Britt
RG Pocic
RT Ifedi
I think we’re looking at:
Fant
Joeckel
Britt
Pocic
Ifedi
Glowinski is just a bit of a nothing player IMO. Pretty much the definition of replacement level talent. I actually quite like the idea of having two technically savvy, assignment correct, disciplined, guys on either side of Britt. A healthy Wilson will get the read option going again, as will hopefully a healthy Rawls/Prosise. Hell, even Lacy can seriously bang up the middle. Get the D-Line hesitating just a touch, get the ball out quickly, have guys who aren’t going to completely panic when they see a stunt, and suddenly the whole situation looks a lot better.
The more I think about it, the less I would be surprised if they start Pocic at C, and move Britt to RT or RG.
Gotta say I know Pocic is likely a fall back in case they can’t sign Britt but I really would like them to try and extend Britt early perhaps even this off season to a cap friendly deal.
If he gets to free agency he is likely gone given the way the market appears to be. I think a cornerstone to build around in the middle of the OL is critical in our division with the Aaron Donald, Solomon Thomas etc. If they can lock him up and the two young OT Fant and Ifedi can develop this season we could have a decent OL this year and really solid OL in 2018.
My one wish the rest of this off season is for the Hawks to get an extension done with Chancellor. He would be a great guy to mentor all these young DBs. Also if not it is going to be a huge distraction all season.
If the season starts and he does not have a deal it is 100% he will test free agency and be gone IMO.
How long would you want to keep Kam for though? 3 more years? I tend to agree with you… if we have to pick 2 of the 3 pending FA’s to keep – I would pick Kam and Graham. Britt is good, but he’s not at the top of his position like Kam and Graham. Kam is probably the best SS in football and Graham is top 3.
I would think 3 years $27 million. There would also have to be roster bonuses in there for games played like they did for Bennett.
Hard to imagine him taking $9 million a year when Reshad Jones just got $12 million a year.
Pay is one component, structure is another. They’d probably offer very good $, but the last year of the deal would be very favorable to the cap savings if the Hawks cut him. Just some protection against Kam’s possible decline and provides some roster/cap flexibility.
I was actually hoping they would get Bennett and Kam done at the same time with similar deals.
Based on the Jones deal which really complicates things, it is going to take at least 3 yr / $30 mil min with at least $24 guaranteed. I think the guaranteed # will be the key. He will want more and the Hawks have to be worried given his recent injury history.
As much as I want him to retire a Hawk I have a feeling given how proud a guy he is that after he held out and got nothing that he said to himself I am playing out my contract and getting every dollar I can in free agency. The only way he is signing early now is if the Hawks overpay likely and that really sucks.
That is why I was open to the idea of trading Sherm and drafting Kevin King as his replacement this off season as I think he is another guy who will be really tough now to resign
If you can only keep two of the three then I agree Kam and Jimmy.
But given the cap space and Kam’s situation I think Britt and Jimmy will be extended.
Graham is the question mark because given the decrease in targets since coming to the Hawks does he even want to stay in Seattle once his contract is done? That is why I was shocked the Hawks did not dip into this deep TE class. Kittle was my ideal pick but even a guy like Hodges would have been some insurance. As it stands now Vannett is the only TE on the roster signed through next year.
I think Jimmy would be just fine here long term. His blocking has come a long way, he could have just said “nah, I’m not going to block. Just throw me touchdowns”, but he showed some grit and overcame some rough moments in that regard. He’s going to be a great player well into his 30’s. His size, hands, and route running aren’t going to fall off.
Feels like one of the reasons the Hawks didn’t pursue a TE harder in the draft is they have plans to extend Graham this summer. Of course that’s based on nothing just intuition.
That immediately addresses the “only Vannett under contract for 2018” concern and moves TE back down the priority draft/FA list.
They still have $5 mil in cap space. Hopefully they roll some of that over or use it for an extension.
No chance they pay him $12 million a year. Bennett got $10 when others got $13-$16 million. I’m betting $9 million is high as they would go. Bennett had $14 million guaranteed, I could see Kam getting around $12-$14.
No I wasn’t exclusively talking just Britt. They could use some of that for Jimmy or Kam too.
Your right. No chance in hell they’d pay him $12 mil.
Does anyone know if there are stats available for how we performed last year with & without Marcel Reece? Thought he performed well last year at relatively low cost, could hopefully see him come back for OTA. Only wondered as I noticed people pencilling in Brown already
On a second point, are there other Seahawks sites people would recommend, this & Field Gulls are my go to of course. Do have a login on Seahawks.net but it’s getting worse each season with people demanding success
I tend to agree with you Reece was vital last year, and he’s cheap! Get er done!
+ 1 would love to see Reece back as well
+2 for Reece.
Not only was he an extra option in the passing game for the defenses to worry about, but his veteran knowhow helped our RBs to make the right read in the running game.
Algie Brown is a huge get for this team. HUGE!
He can essentially be the 4th TE on this team as well as the FB.
I’ll take your word for it, I haven’t watched any of him. Just liked Reece last year, was he vet minimum as well?
Undrafted free agent.
I think this is one of those positions where they are going to try and pinch pennies. Let a rookie win the job before you try to sign a vet like Reece. I think we all like Reece and want him back but I doubt he’s on the roster come training camp. If no cheap rookie looks up to the part, then we can try and bring Reece back.
Lots of good Seahawks Twitter follows. I know Davis Hsu gets mentions here, but a couple of others are @Coleman3SD and @FCCoachSmith. I think @Guga31bb had some good breakdowns during the season.
Cheers, I already follow Davis & Ben(Guga), will look at the other two
Does anyone have a link to the Schneider interview this morning?
Mitch said on Twitter there would be no podcast going up. I only found notes from Condotta:
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/five-takeaways-from-john-schneiders-kjr-am-appearance-a-kam-chancellor-extension-draft-day-regrets/
“Schneider said six of the seven players Seattle selected from 35 to 111 were players on which the Seahawks had at least a second-round grade.”
This is really strange because when journalist asked PC and JS (3rd day press) was there any “steal” PC looked at the paper and said NO.
Good insights from John. Last year, Pete said Britt would have played much better at G or T, not just Center because he finally became consistent at keeping his pad level down. It’s possible that Britt could move to G or T. Love that Fant added weight. I hope he worked hard on his hands. It should be a great competition this summer that translates to improved Oline play this season!
In case anyone cared…
Does anyone? Good to see the Bears committing to getting Mitchell killed before he even has a chance
Bears seem to be in the fast track for the number 1 overall pick next year.
Was just thinking that, besides all the veteran leadership and help from the staff etc., one of the simplest things that should almost automatically help Malik overcome his attitude problems is that, probably for the first time in his life, he will not be “the guy” on his team.
Up to now, he probably knew the coaches couldn’t really bench him anyway for acting up just because he was the best player on the team. If he goes off script at this level, they just send him to the bench for a drive or two so he gets the message.
Amazing how effectively something simple like that can help one grow up.
Him coming in and working in a rotation and not playing 90% snaps at nose tackle will help him out tremendously. He’ll have a lot of 1 on 1 matchups rather then being routinely double teamed.
Regarding Roos’ workout video, there really should be a rule preventing players from bouncing the bar off the chest. It prevents what would be a more accurate representation of arm strength and endurance.
That dude is shredded! Looks a WWE guy.
Maybe he will be if he doesn’t stick? They recruit a lot of ex college football players for their tryouts. In fact, former SEA RB Demitrius Bronson is currently signed by WWE and down at the performance center. I’m a WWE fan too Vol :).
Nice. Finally!
You a RAW or SDL guy? I’m blue brand all the way.
You catch that Triple threat main event last night on RAW?
Tough choice for me. I’m a huge Y2J fan, so now that he’s on SDL it could sway things a bit. Plus, they’ve been consistently more entertaining recently.
Unfortunately, my work schedules don’t allow me to catch much live so I usually end up checking out the recaps and highlights. I was lucky enough to catch WrestleMania in Orlando this year. Helps to have a brother living there who also happens to be a fan!
Damn! I’m jealous of that. Was a pretty good ‘Mania this year. Way better than that sh*t show last year. What was ur favorite match?
I recommend catching that Triple threat.#1 contender match for the IC title between The Miz, Finn Balor, and Seth Rollins. Incredible bro.
I’ve loved Y2J since his WCW days. Interested to see how the Blue brand uses him.
Who are ur favs from each show? And do u follow NXT? They seem like they’re finally back.
It was definitely a good show, even if it was a little long. Fav match has to be the tag team ladder match for no other reason than the pop the Hardy’s got. The stadium basically exploded. Bray’s entrance was something else to see in person too.
I’ve been a big HHH fan pretty much since he dropped the Hunter Hearst Helmsley gimmick, so whenever he gets involved I still enjoy it. Balor and Nakamura are so good, dating back to their New Japan days. Styles, Rollins, Bray, Ziggler. I’m basically naming the whole roster haha, but I see the value in a lot of guys. Truth be told I even like Roman. He would be a fantastic heel if they let him, but then again the more people start to hate him now it will make that heel turn even better.
I’ll have to check out that triple threat, it sounds great. Some of my favorites in there. Miz is such a great, sleazy heel.
I try to keep up with NXT as much as I can. Not sure how I feel about the Authors of Pain, but they do have some cool talent down there. Maybe more soon if they keep getting guys from ROH. And Roode is dare I say…glorious!
Mine was the AJ vs Shane-OMac match. Loved how it went from a brawl, to a striking contest, to an actual wrestle. I mean AJ is the best in the world and could literally wrestle a broom and it’d be entertaining, but McMahon held his own.
Shinsuke is my guy! Love what SDL is doing with him. He’s like a young Brock Lesnar. Meaning, he’s that special attraction ya know? Obviously nothing alike physique or skill set wise.
Losing Miz hurt man. Good lord those ‘Total Bellas Bullsh*t’ spoofs were a shoot! Wow. But yeah that main event was something else. Couple surprises in there and it set up 3 different feuds.
I like Roman, but hate the baggage he comes with. Should a turned dude heel. He had Rowdy Roddy Piper ‘stabbed in the parking lot’ type heat and they dropped the ball with it the next week.
That Orton/Bray feud was amazing up until Randy burned down the compound and then it fell apart from there.
I like AOP. They’ve been part of some of the best matches of the year. That DIY, Revival, AOP trip!me threat was match of the year other than Cena/Styles at the Rumble.
NXT is building up some great characters. Almas is fantastic, love Aliester Black aka Tommy End, and yes Foods is Glorious! You seen that Dylan Mikey dude? Beast!
Anyways, its awesome to have someone on here that also enjoys the ‘E. Look forward to more discussions with ya on it my man.
Roode*
Miley*
This spell check is killing me!
Definitely, man. It’s always nice to find another guy to discuss ‘E with!
That AJ/Shane match was great, you’re right about that.
Shinsuke is just so unique in his movement…like a wet noodle, but in a good way if that makes sense. Charisma for days too.
Agree on Roman, they missed a shot to really capitalize on his heat.
I haven’t seen Dylan Miley yet, I’ll have to check him out.
Whichever show Alexa Bliss is on. She’s not the best wrestler yet, but she is an amazing heel on the mic.
Id rather see them do maxes!
I’m confused.
Why is it a bad thing that most of these rookies won’t start? They didn’t need starters. Couldn’t stress that enough before the draft. If all your rookies are starting, your in trouble. Big time. This was a team that with an injured RW, inconsistent play from the O-line, and a severe lack of depth was 1 game away from the 2 seed in the NFL.
You draft guys a year out, carve out a role for them, and you keep that pipeline of ‘next man up.’ That and ‘always compete’ are the brand of this team for a reason.
Its okay if they don’t start right away, but it would be nice if they stuck with the team until needed.
Take a player like Hunt, he showed some promise. They kept him around a year. He will probably get cut this year, or they will be cutting some of the late round UDFA linemen. So he wasn’t a starter. Even though they badly needed starters on offensive line last year.
Same with tackle position this year. They need two starters. They will either find them in the current players or in the rookies.
I’m going to politely disagree that Seahawks don’t need starters. They do and clearly recruited for starters in the first two rounds.
Right. They got 2 on each side of the ball. As they normally do. They got great depth and some very solid role players.
That’s the thing though. This draft and last season proved it. The bottom fell out from under them. They didn’t have those next man up guys that are needed.
Hunt was a 6th round pick. Those guys are UDFAs. Your drafting prospects in the 6th or 7th that you don’t think you’ll be able to recruit in UDFA.
I’ve grown into thinking that the Seahawks should trade up into the first two or three rounds where the talent lies. Use UDFA to pick up all the long shots. They always have a big group anyway. Plus you can pick threw the cast offs from other teams, or practice squads. There are plenty of opportunities at those long shot players.
Yeah its a good point. We know that JS is a bargain hunter though.
He did mention about wanting to trade up and then said he didn’t like not having a 5th. I’m thinking that’s the round he wanted to get into.
Didn’t he say he didn’t care about not having a fourth or fifth?
No. He said the hardest part of the draft was sitting there w/o a 5th and watching guys come off the board. Someone asked of he tried trading into it and he said ‘yeah.’ This was from the day 3 presser.
Yes, before the draft Schneider said:
“I don’t like it quite as much as I liked it last year. I think there’s different parts of it that I do like and that we want to pick in that range…Last year I just felt like it was kind of thick all the way through and we were willing to pick players all the way through. This year it seems that there’s some gaps in there that you may be able to… which for us not having a fourth and a fifth this year may work out in our favour.”
Clearly that was spin.
He maybe didn’t expect Butt and Kittle to still be on the board in the fifth round.
Right. Clark and Lockett blossomed last year after showing flashes in 2015 as rookies. Here’s hoping the same for the 2016 class this year.
Agreed, however I think Pocic McDowell and Shaquill Griffen could all potentially start. Even Hill could find himself starting.
Something Rob said stuck with me. That Pocic uses sound technique and leverage and maneuvers defenders out of the way rather than attempting a pancake block – and it showed in the highlights. Dave Wyman has commented more than once that one of the problems with Sweezy is that he constantly tried to pancake his guy attempting the spectacular and missing most of the time. He said the guys he hated when he played were the lineman that were always in the way, screening him off so he couldn’t make a play. They didn’t crush him, they were just there, and there was nothing he could do about it.
A good example of that is Bradley Sowell last year. While watching film that’s exactly what he did, he just got in the way. Not that he always did it, and most of the time it wasn’t pretty, but worst case scenario, just get in front of the defenders way.
Last year I was reduced to saying “All I want is for each offensive linemen to block one guy, just one guy.”
Baseless speculation, but does anyone else think that with his freaky long arms and athleticism, Carson could be a Deathbacker convert?
Really liking the Vikings selection of RB Dalvin Cook. He’s a great fit there.
Cook, LaTavius Murray, and McKinnon? 🔥
Yeah that’s going to be an effective backfield for sure.
If their bottom 5 O-line improves, yes.
Anyone know what Roos arm length is? You normally need pretty short arms to get that many reps in the bench press.
I’m guessing less than 33″
My way to early OL projection:
Starter: Joeckel Odi Britt Pocic Ifedi
Backup #1: Fant Glow Pocic Glow Oday
Backup #2: Odi Roos Roos Oday Pocic
IDK Seattle signed Texas A&M Claude George.
They had some sleepers at LB this year with him, Shaan Washington, and one other guy.
6’2, 240- 11.5 TFL, 3.5 QB sacks, 3 QB hurries, and 51 tackles. Nice little pickup.
@RapSheet
The #Broncos have struck a deal with RB Jamaal Charles for 1 year, up to $3.75M, source said
2:23 PM – 2 May 2017
Cards signed Trevor Knight.
I effing love this pick. His feet are beautiful.