The vertical jump is a key test for offensive linemen at the combine
What is TEF?
Last year we put together a formula (detailed here) based around Tom Cable’s self-confessed ‘ideal’ physical profile. We called it TEF (Trench Explosion Formula).
What exactly does it calculate?
Cable stated two years ago that a prospect would ideally achieve a 31-inch vertical, a 9-foot broad jump and 27 reps in the bench press. TEF uses these numbers to create an overall score for each individual offensive lineman:
1. Vertical ÷ 31
2. Broad ÷ 9, then cube the result
3. Bench ÷ 27
4. Results added together = TEF
How do you judge an ‘ideal’ explosive athlete?
A prospect achieving the exact Cable ideal (31 — 9 — 27) will score a 3.00 in TEF.
How do you know it’s a worthwhile exercise?
We went back and put Seattle’s recent draft picks/UDFA’s through the formula and this is what we found:
Mark Glowinski: 3.34
Terry Poole: 3.12
Kristjan Sokoli: 3.75
Justin Britt: 3.00
Garrett Scott: 3.27
Ryan Seymour: 3.10
Jared Smith: 3.35
J.R. Sweezy: 3.13
Gary Gilliam (UDFA): 3.09
Germain Ifedi: 2.97
George Fant (UDFA): 3.35
The Seahawks also passed on a collection of players scoring below the 3.00 threshold.
Seattle’s starting O-line in 2016 consisted mainly of:
LT George Fant — 3.35 TEF
LG Mark Glowinski — 3.34 TEF
Justin Britt — 3.00 TEF
Germain Ifedi — 2.97 TEF
Garry Gilliam — 3.09 TEF
They were young, they were raw and for the most part they were overmatched. There is no doubting, however, how much the Seahawks are focusing on developing explosive traits to try and create a productive O-line for the future. The evidence is right there — and it’s clear.
What are the TEF scores for the 2017 combine participants?
Forrest Lamp — 3.23
Nico Siragusa — 3.13
Garett Bolles — 3.00*
Isaac Asiata — 2.96
Dorian Johnson — 2.92
Antonio Garcia — 2.89
Sean Harlow — 2.87
Taylor Moton — 2.86
Will Holden — 2.84
Ethan Pocic — 2.81
Jessamen Dunker — 2.77
Corey Levin — 2.76
Erik Austell — 2.75
Dion Dawkins — 2.75
Conor McDermott — 2.73*
Dan Feeney — 2.68
Ben Braden — 2.67
Cam Robinson — 2.67*
Nathan Theaker — 2.64
Danny Isidora — 2.56
Ethan Cooper — 2.52
Adam Bisnowaty — 2.51
Jordan Morgan — 2.49
Daniel Brunskill — 2.48
Julie’n Davenport — 2.48
Dan Skipper — 2.45*
Kyle Fuller — 2.39
Jon Toth — 2.39
Collin Buchanan — 2.38
Damien Mama — 2.38*
Justin Senior — 2.38*
Sami Tevi — 2.37
Jerry Ugokwe — 2.37
Pat Elflein — 2.34
Cameron Lee — 2.28
Chase Roullier — 2.28
Zach Banner — 2.19
Chad Wheeler — 2.14
Avery Gennesy — 2.13
David Sharpe — 2.09
Aviante Collins — DNP in the broad or vertical
Jermaine Eluemunor — DNP in the broad or vertical
* Garett Bolles, Cam Robinson, Damien Mama, Conor McDermott, Dan Skipper and Justin Senior did not do the bench press. They are given a projected score based on the average bench rep number for this draft class (24 reps).
What does this tell us?
If the Seahawks wish to continue drafting explosive offensive linemen, the options are limited.
Garett Bolles is expected to be off the board before the #26 pick. That could also be the case for Forrest Lamp.
TEF suggests that would leave two guards — Nico Siragusa and Isaac Asiata as possible targets.
What about weighted TEF (wTEF)?
This tweaks the formula and accounts for the players with enormous size (eg Germain Ifedi) who perform well in the broad and vertical jumps. Why is this worth considering? It’s simple — jumping a vertical at 320lbs is considerably more difficult than jumping a vertical at 295lbs.
Here is the calculation we use:
Weight x TEF x 0.1
We can give players a score that sufficiently emphasises their unique size.
Germain Ifedi — 324 x 2.97 x 0.1 = 96.1
Spriggs, Jason — 104.9
McGovern, Conner — 101.4
Ifedi, Germain — 96.1
Shell, Brandon — 94.4
Vaitai, Halapoulivaati — 93.8
This helped us determine Ifedi was a distinct possibility for the Seahawks in round one and ultimately they drafted him with the #31 pick a year ago.
wTEF scores for the 2017 draft class
Forrest Lamp — 99.8
Nico Siragusa — 99.8
Isaac Asiata — 95.6
Taylor Moton — 91.2
Garett Bolles — 89.1
Will Holden — 88.3
Jessamen Dunker — 88.0
Ben Braden — 87.8
Dorian Johnson — 87.6
Antonio Garcia — 87.2
Ethan Pocic — 87.1
Sean Harlow — 86.9
Dion Dawkins — 86.3
Cam Robinson — 85.9
Corey Levin — 84.7
Conor McDermott — 83.8
Nathan Theaker — 83.1
Erik Austell — 82.7
Dan Feeney — 81.7
Ethan Cooper — 81.1
Damien Mama — 79.4
Julie’n Davenport — 78.8
Justin Senior — 78.7
Danny Isidora — 78.3
Zach Banner — 77.3
Jordan Morgan — 76.9
Adam Bisnowaty — 76.3
Dan Skipper — 75.7
Collin Buchanan — 75.2
Sami Tevi — 73.7
Kyle Fuller — 73.3
Jon Toth — 73.3
Jerry Ugokwe — 72.7
David Sharpe — 71.6
Cameron Lee — 71.1
Chase Roullier — 71.1
Pat Elflein — 70.9
Daniel Brunskill — 67.7
Avery Gennesy — 67.7
Chad Wheeler — 65.4
What does this tell us?
It reinforces the physical profiles of Forrest Lamp and Nico Siragusa. wTEF also boosts Isaac Asiata into the #3 spot in this class, overtaking Utah team mate Garett Bolles.
Taylor Moton — ranked #8 in TEF with a 2.86 — also overtakes Bolles and several others to become the #4 most explosive athlete in the class.
wTEF also highlights how poorly the likes of Zach Banner, David Sharpe and Damien Mama performed. Despite all three weighing considerably more than most other offensive linemen in this draft — the extra size barely gave them a boost in terms of physical profile.
What else did we learn?
Cam Robinson, one of the biggest names in the draft, is ranked #14 in weighted TEF and #18 in original TEF.
There was quite a lot of buzz around Robinson’s reasonably fast forty time (5.15) but simply put — he is not an explosive athlete and if Seattle drafts him in round one, it would go against everything we’ve discovered over the last five years.
The lack of explosive athletes in this draft class also, yet again, proves the ever growing disparity between O-line and D-line prospects entering the NFL. We’ll put the defensive line prospects through the system on Sunday and it’s absolutely certain there’ll be more than three players scoring a 3.00.
Can anyone else add their name to the list of possible options for Seattle?
Absolutely. For example, George Fant scored a 3.35 at the Western Kentucky pro-day and started at left tackle for the Seahawks during his rookie season. Players who weren’t invited to the combine will get their chance to impress on the pro-day circuit.
Meanwhile Ryan Ramcyzk didn’t workout at the combine as he recovers from labrum surgery and Roderick Johnson didn’t compete due to illness.
What are some of the differences between the 2016 and 2017 O-line classes?
Players scoring a 3.00 or more: six (2016), three (2017)
Players scoring at least a 2.85: nine (2016), eight (2017)
Here’s the top-10 from 2016 combined with the top-10 from 2017:
Jason Spriggs: 3.54
Connor McGovern: 3.29
Forrest Lamp — 3.23
Nico Siragusa — 3.13
Alex Redmond: 3.10
Joe Haeg: 3.06
Joe Dahl: 3.05
Joe Thuney: 3.04
Garett Bolles — 3.00*
Halapoulivaati Vaitai: 2.97
Germain Ifedi: 2.97
Isaac Asiata — 2.96
Dorian Johnson — 2.92
Brandon Shell: 2.91
Antonio Garcia — 2.89
Sean Harlow — 2.87
Taylor Moton — 2.86
Will Holden — 2.84
Ryan Kelly: 2.84
Ethan Pocic — 2.81
Do you have any predictions based on this data?
— Unless Garett Bolles or Forrest Lamp are available at #26 the Seahawks will not draft an offensive lineman in the first round.
— The Seahawks might draft Isaac Asiata, Taylor Moton or Nico Siragusa beyond the first round.
— Garett Bolles will be drafted in the top-20 and Forrest Lamp will also be taken in the first round.
Any thoughts on the running back class?
— There’s a lot of talk about Leonard Fournette’s performance today — but here’s some perspective:
Zeke Elliott (225lbs) — 4.47 in the forty yard dash
Dalvin Cook (210lbs) — 4.49 in the forty yard dash
Leonard Fournette (240lbs) — 4.51 in the forty yard dash
Fournette is 0.02 slower than Cook but weighs 30lbs more. He’s 0.04 slower than Elliott but weighs 15lbs more.
He might not be explosive in the vertical or broad jumps (a surprise) — but let’s appreciate his speed/size combo in relation to Elliott and Cook.
— The Seahawks haven’t drafted for speed at the position in the Pete Carroll era. They’ve consistently taken running backs in the 4.47-4.55 type of range. Explosive athleticism, physicality, size (approx. 220lbs) and running style are the key aspects.
Of the running backs competing today, the following stand out:
Christopher Carson — 6-0, 218lbs, 37 inch vert, 10-10 broad
Brian Hill — 6-0, 219lbs, 34 inch vert, 10-5 broad
Alvin Kamara — 5-10, 214lbs, 39.5 inch vert, 10-11 broad
Joe Williams — 5-11, 210lbs, 35 inch vert, 10-5 broad
Disappointingly, Elijah Hood didn’t compete in any drills other than the bench press (18 reps) and he was heavier than expected (232lbs).
— This looks like a ‘play-it-by-ear’ running back class. If there’s value at the end of round three or between rounds 4-7, perhaps they consider adding another back.
Otherwise, pass.
The options aren’t great and with a host of top defensive talent available this year, this is already looking like a defense-minded draft for a team like Seattle that values traits and specific profiles.
The first day of the combine arguably suggests that if the Seahawks are going to make additions to the offensive line and at running back this off-season — those additions will come in free agency.
You were saying that the Seahawks haven’t drafted for speed – the exception being trading a first rounder for Percy Harvin who was mostly used as a running back and bubble screen guy. He was very fast, can anyone dig up his combine numbers?
They traded for Harvin as a receiver, not as a running back.
He was never used as a RB in Seattle.
Yes but they never used him downfield. One of my pet peeves about how they used him.
Sure, but you made reference to me saying they don’t draft for speed at RB. However they used him, they didn’t add Harvin to play running back.
Okay I found Percy Harvin, he ran a 4.41 and benched 19 times. He weighed around 192 at the time.
And he was a receiver in Seattle.
Both of you are correct. Percy was brought in as a receiver, lined up as a receiver, and played as a receiver, but as AH says he was rarely used as a conventional downfield receiver. I agree, what a waste of talent. Having said that, I think Percy in Bevell’s offense and on this team was doomed from the start.
The question is why did they acquire him not how they ended up using (or not using) him as we are discussing what the Seahawks look for at the RB position. They acquired Harvin to be a receiver and force the defense to cover 100% of the field. I suspect they did not use him downfield receiver because of the personal battles that were going on, i.e., he was partially benched, we are not going to throw you the ball until you do it our way.
I’d be surprised if they drafted Lamp in the first round… A ‘come in and complete’* guy does not seem like the directional go with their first pick. I would venture to guess would be a guy they are very confident can come in and start.
*Yes, I know Pete’s mantra
Hmm, are you saying you dont see Lamp as a plug and play starter at day 1?
They may or may not draft him — but the data suggest he’s one of a select few they might.
Data suggest that for sure. What we heard from Pete and John suggests they felt they were too young on the o-line last year. I would be very surprised if they selected another o-line early. They will select one or two later in the draft but I truly believe they want to stick with the core they have and add free agents to the mix.
I tend to agree with you — but wouldn’t rule anything out either.
Can run through some free agent OL possibilities and check out their TEF scores?
What he said. Also, what Pete said about the linebackers and cornerbacks.
Lamp might be gone by #26 and has relatively short arms but he’s capable of playing LT, LG, RG, RT. He looks better at present than anyone we have at any of those positions currently. So starter material? Pretty good odds.
I posted in the previous thread Lamp and Zach Martin’s measurements and test numbers and they are very, very close. Martin has Lamp beat in arm length by about a half inch, Lamp has much bigger hand size, height and weight are almost identical. Lamp actually beat Martin in just about every athletic test except for vertical (I think Martin was a half inch better) and 3 cone (by three hundredths of a second). Lamp’s 40, broad, 3 cone and shuttle all outstanding. A lot of evidence that Lamp can step in day one and be a very good player, but as a guard. The question then becomes do the Seahawks view the positional value high enough (they already have an at least serviceable starter at LG as well) to pull the trigger in the first, cause they wont get a chance in the second. Lamp may not even last to 26 now.
He would be a plug and play starter if Ifedi moved to RT
Pete and JS were both firm and clear that Ifedi is not moving to RT.
Lamp could certainly push Glowinski and might even replace him as a rookie. But, Odhiambo can do that too. So, thebpositional value of Lamp is limited. He is not a LT or RT.
He is a possibility but I think the positional value of the defenders in this draft cause Seattle to look in a different direction at 26 if Lamp is even still there.
Hmm my favorite combo running back receiver is Christian McCaffrey, but he barely beat Fournette’s time and is a flyweight compared to him. None of those times seems that fast considering its their job to run the ball. I guess it is more important that they be elusive and powerful, and not lose their footing when they are hit.
I think every team that meets with him are going to fall in love.
He’s the real deal. No one impressed me more or had a better day than him. He’s a throwback runner between the ears and style wise (his patience), but with a modern era skill set.
His patience is Leveon Bell-like
He’s special.
So smooth. His vision, his feet, his hands.
I’ve seen every single in game snap he’s had since he left high school and he still impresses me.
My thought: track is slow. I think we can forget about any of the speed guys challenging CJ2k in the 40 if the RB group can barely get a handful of guys under 4.50.
But I think RB is one of those positions where the 40 might be pretty unimportant, ironically. Vision and the ability to make quick cuts in small spaces is so much more important.
So nobody is getting their own island this year? That’s too bad.
Curious: When you factor Lamp’s 31 1/8″ arms do you think he’s even a likely candidate for the hawks at 26?
He was re-measured at the combine and has 32 1/4 inch arms.
It might be a deal breaker for them for sure — but he’s clearly the #1 in TEF for this OL draft class.
Thanks! must’ve been looking at Senior Bowl numbers that haven’t updated yet. Still 32 1/4 is pretty rough. Have you ever done any looking at OL arm lengths for Hawks, like you have with CBs?
Yes — they’ve only drafted one O-liner with sub-33 inch arms (Joey Hunt).
So it might be a factor for them. But his athletic profile matches what they like.
Hey Rob, I posted this in an old thread, but thought it might be interesting, and add more predictive value (since it explains why the Seahawks picked Ifedi over Spriggs in addition to the last five years of OL picks).
This formula takes base expectations or assumptions for each weight, arm length, bench press, vertical, and broad jumps.
It then takes the player’s results and divides by the baseline. Both arm length (since arm length is not something that can be modified or trained, and is incredibly impactful on NFL play) and broad jump are cubed.
Baselines:
Weight (W): 310 lbs (I took the average weight of O-linemen, this can be modified; this was taken in order to account for lighter O-linemen naturally requiring less explosive force to jump further.
Arm Length (AL): 33 inches
Vertical jump (VJ): 31 inches
Broad jump (BJ): 108 inches
Bench press (BP): 27 reps
100*((W/310+(AL/33)^3+BP/27+(BJ/108)^3+VJ/31)/5)^3
This would give every player the Seahawks have drafted recently a score of over 100. Ifedi scores at 119 using this metric, while Spriggs (lighter, shorter arms) scored a 104.7. Every Seahawks OL pick has scored over a 105. Most OL in general score below 100 (Decker for example scored a 74).
Again, not necessarily a predictor of success, just a physical profile metric.
Thoughts?
It’s an interesting formula and thanks for posting.
I wanted to just focus on the explosive tests personally and the weighted TEF was an add-on to it to accommodate unique size.
It’s worth stressing — I don’t think they set out to draft the ‘top scorers’. Their decision to draft Ifedi over Spriggs, for example, wasn’t about a highest score. The markers (eg 3.00) just help us determine who will be considered and who won’t. The actual decision to draft or not draft a player is then based on other factors eg body type, playing style, tape, length etc.
Yeah true, obviously it’s not just score based. But I thought it might be a good analysis of strict physical profile. As a predictor though, it does fit how they’ve drafted (exceptions being Joey and Rees, about whom we don’t have data).
For this year, for what it’s worth, it gives Lamp a 109.2, Asiata a 104.4, Bolles a 103.1.
Obviously, game tape and performance will play a huge part in selections, but it does tie size to physical performance tests to give a numeric value profile for a player’s explosiveness at their position, and does correlate well (not causally) to the Seahawks OL draft picks
Personally, I would love to see the results of these additions to TEF with Pro Day numbers
I was a little disappointed with Moton’s BP number. It really drags down his TEF/wTEF (and also puts him below 100.00 on Redhawk’s formula).
He was pretty impressive otherwise, especially in movement drills. He looks fluid enough to play outside at RT.
I’d feel a bit better about his appeal to SEA if he can improve his BP at his pro day.
Honestly though, what does the BP seriously tell you? It’s a very poor way of measuring functional strength, especially the way they choose to test it.
At this point, I’m thinking that Seattle will go defense with their first two picks, maybe first 3. If Asiata or Siragusa are available when Seattle is on the clock with one of their 3rd round comp picks, I would happy with either of those two. Bolles would be great to draft, I think he is everything a coach and GM would want in an NFL tackle, but I’m not holding my breath that he’ll be available at 26. With that being said, I still think any of: Reddick, Cunningham, and Melifonwu are my favorites, for Seattle at 26.
I think your right. The early strength of the draft is defense, and the Seahawks just happen to need at least 4 defensive players. Two secondary, a linebacker, and a defensive tackle. They may not fill all those spots, but they will be halfway there if they pick defense the first 2 to 4 picks.
Also factoring in that I don’t see how the Seahawks can get that first round left tackle that they want. Too many teams looking for that.
I don’t think it will hurt the fans feelings to rebuild on defense. Seems like it is a consensus that everyone wants the Seahawks to have the best defense in the league.
I would like Takk McKinley as well. He just seems like a nice fit at Leo/Sam if he’s still on the board.
IMO RB is still a serious reality later then the 4th with Joe Mixon. If he is there late enough I think we strike the iron of a high caliber player that can really benefit from the culture and accountability on our team.
If your willing to accept the idea of Seahawks picking him, it should probably be with the end of third round compensatory picks. I think he will go even higher than that.
If any team considers him it’s Seattle.
That’s just our culture. I don’t think they’ll like what they find, though.
If they want him then yeah I agree that’s where they’d take him.
I might be wrong on this — but I suspect there is 0% chance Mixon lands in Seattle or goes as early as some are asserting here.
Tony Pauline says nobody will draft him and I tend to agree with that opinion.
I’ve been of that opinion since you cited it.
If we deemed him draftable I think they would pull the trigger in that range,though
When Schneider was asked point blank last year, if the Seahawks’ position was still never draft a women-beater, he said “yeah”. That was asked about Frank Clark — everybody assumed that Schneider basically said he didn’t believe Clark was a woman-beater — but Mixon is on tape as a woman-beater. Schneider already said the Seahawks wouldn’t take a woman-beater. He said “yeah”. No if and or buts. Seriously, I wish somebody would ask about Mixon. I’m convinced he would say no. Some people say Seattle would take Mixon because Clark. They are very, very different cases. Let’s put this in a different paragraph:
Frank Clark and Joe Mixon are very, very different cases. If you think they are basically the same, I’ll bet Schneider believes they are different. So much so that I’m not even close to thinking the Seahawks are thinking about taking Mixon. I wish Seattle fans would stop bringing it up, because Seahawks fans should know better.
Scraps is correct here IMO.
And I think if someone point blank asked Schneider, he will either say Mixon is not in consideration or he won’t disclose. He will not say, as the Lions GM did, that he is on their board.
I dont rationalize Mixon because of clark. If you want equality then both parties of the incident are equally to blame. Everyone deserves a second chance, if they didnt we wouldnt let criminals out of jail.
He took his punishment and is working to be a better person, and the healthy culture here would be a great reinforcement for him as a human being.
It’s time to move on. Both parties are NOT equal blame and the matter is closed.
I think the second chance philosophy is gaining a bit of traction even among domestic violence advocates. But is isn’t “”everybody” it is more appropriately “everyone who has accepted responsibility for their action and demonstrated growth.”
That is where Mixon is apparently falling short. The way he handled the civil case and interviews apparently have raised continuing concerns about his maturity and degree of sincere remorse.
Not one team that has spoken to him has said anything positive publicly about his responses which would be a way of testing potential fan response to signing him. That could change as teams meet with him at his pro day. It will also be interesting to see which teams (if any) fly him in for an interview. I think he is 100% off of Seattle’s board unless we hear something different from the FO than we have heard so far.
I agree Jujus, his response was disproportionate but it was a response to physical and allegedly verbal agression. It shouldnt be taboo to say that the other party deserves blame too. He has been pubished, is continuing to be punished, and will always feel the repercussions of that incident more than likely. If he had clocked a 110 lb guy after the guy got in face, shoved him, and then slapped him would anybody care? No, they wouldnt. Draft him.
Of women I talk with in my family, work, and friends all seem to have a different opinion then all of the seattle-ite men I follow for Seahawk talk. Women want equality. That means there isn’t a double standard regarding violence between 2 people. This wasnt the kc guy beating his preagnant girlfriend. This was her starting the violence and him making a poor decision in his reaction.
This has to stop now Jujus.
There is never, ever any justification for hitting a woman. Anyone wishing to assert any blame to the victim in this instance will not be making that point on my site.
Besides, I think Jay Glazer sums it up well here: http://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/onair/jt-the-brick-46868/jay-glazer-on-joe-mixon-not-15614320/
Again, Schneider said, and then repeated, the Seahawks will not draft a woman-beater. Mixon is a woman-beater, with film. Why you keep ignoring this, I don’t know. You say “draft him”. Schneider says he won’t. Move on.
I never thought they would.
Ive maintained all year he’ll go undrafted
*Edited by Rob*
I’m not going to allow any more victim blaming on this Joe Mixon issue. It is time for everyone to move on. There are better things to discuss — like the combine.
I’m actually not all that bummed about the dearth of suitable testing talent along the OL this year.
I’m of the opinion that Seattle has already invested/added young athletic talent. And that talent was admittedly raw last year. Kind of what we should have expected.
Had there been equally good talent this year, it’d be hard for Seattle to resist spending more top draft capital to add to the OL. In this case though, Seattle is almost obliged to patiently let the current young talent play out.
Seattle *should* not need to add anyone in order to achieve improved results in 2017. Although that’s a qualified should. We similarly expected Gilliam to make that next step up in 2016. Only to see his development almost entirely plateau. But just as we should have expected a tough year on the OL last year, we should expect an improvement this year.
This draft class pretty much seals a strategy of signing modest hedge options in UFA, and to develop the investments we’ve already made. I know that Schneider emphasized that we were too young last year. But I don’t see that as necessarily meaning we’re going to add a lot of veteran talent now. Because those too young guys are now 2nd year veterans in their own right. I tend to think that he was more or less talking about incurring too steep of a growing pain in 2016. Something that we should not have next year. The names may well be all the same on day one. But the play could be unrecognizable.
It’s almost as if the draft gods have forced our hand in a deliberate way. Which could be a really good thing.
Perfect assessment. I completely agree and expect them to lean heavy towards CB/S/LB in the first few rounds.
Well said…
I would also like to add that another reason why Seattle don’t really have a beast O-line, might be because last year was the first year since 2012 (i think) we had a first round pick. We’ve traded for Percy and Graham for first rounders. And we also have been picking very late these past years.
We did have a chance for Travis Frederick for example, if we didn’t trade for Percy.
One of the few negative things about going far into playoffs : Late picks. Unless we trade up, we kinda just gotta accept that the best O-line players will go before us.
Great stuff as always, Rob.
The lack of explosion among this year’s OL is disappointing, but not too surprising. It’s looking more and more like SEA will bring in some veteran OL competition in the 2nd to 3rd tier range while mostly banking on improvement from their athletic, but inexperienced line. I forgot that Fant’s TEF was 3.35 – definitely helps explain why SEA is willing to throw him into the fire when he has such a high athletic ceiling.
I also found this in Wiki: “Offensive line coach Tom Cable had to make the decision between Fant and another offensive line prospect but chose Fant because he was a “long-armed athlete”.
OK St RB Chris Carson did not disappoint. Maybe a little speed wise, although his game isn’t really speed, but ya gotta think his time would improve a little come his pro day if he opts to run as most of these guys would.
Was never gonna be a high pick or maybe even drafted honestly, but he’d be a nice additioln in round 6-7 if they choose to go that route or even better as an UDFA.
Also, Tyus Bowser has perfect size for the OTTO role.
Excited to see Bowser test Vol
Me too.
All eyes will be on Bowser for sure! He looks ideal for that Bruce replacement role.
Still prefer Reddick, but it’s a comfort knowing that Bowser could be had somewhere in R2 if they miss on Reddick early.
An Obi/ Bowser 1/2 would be exciting and dynamic.
My eye’s will be on TJ Watt. He will be the the biggest mover up draft board’s post combine. I think he will be gone by #26. He is the LB I want for the Hawks.
I don’s know, I think Carson had himself a nice day. And I get that Seattle doesn’t have a pick in the fifth but if they make some goofy trades I’d be more than happy with Carson in the Fifth. The team wouldn’t be banking on too much, but you get the comfort of not having to fool around with UDFA bidding wars.
If they can get him even later all the better but I think his game is a little tough a little finesse which I think helps if either Rawls or Prosise were/are hurt again. Stylistically both of them are so different that it feels like it’s a different scheme between the two and you can’t do “like for like,” substitutions when either is out. Finally on the RB’s I think it may be nice to have a player lie Carson so you cold run two RB sets and keep the defense guessing as to run-pass a bit more.
I have no idea if he has any special teams value which is where a player like him may have to make his bones.
Okay just one more RB thing. Kamara. I know I know they say they are set at RB. But i’ve enjoyed his tape before and now wonder if it makes sense to consider him. You could still get DB’s, LB’s as needed with the quality of depth and give the team another weapon who can effectively split the versatility of the current two. (not totally sold on Alex Collins…yet.)
Jeremiah and Brooks have been talking about Kamara in Rd 1 for a while now, I think he’s going to go higher than a lot of people think.
Would be happy to see Seattle take either Asiata or Moton in the second and go heavy on defense with their other early picks. Haven’t heard much about Siragusa until today; will need to check him out a bit more.
I said it previously in another thread, but Vandy’s Will Holden could very well be the next Andrew Whitworth.
What’s his best tape??
Watched 2015 vs. Ten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lbs1VO0sg8
He does move really well for his size. Very long to get around in pass pro and good at sealing his man in run blocking.
True to his name though, might have gotten away with some “Holden” in there too… guess everyone does once in a while.
Thanks for the tip, Vol.
I wanna see him versus A&M and Bama
Its not holding unless there’s a flag, if you get away with it, its hust as good as doing it right
I may be wrong but I think Mixon will be drafted. In fact John Clayton who gave Mixon an interview. Gave a thumbs up to drafting Mixon in the third round for Seattle. If I was Seattle I would take him in the 3rd round also. Clayton also said that this has to be an ownership decision. But he gave his endorsement. You might disagree with me. And that’s fine. But I do think Mixon will be drafted. This guy is just too good. Will their be a firestorm? Yes! But Mixon will be drafted.
“In fact John Clayton who gave Mixon an interview. Gave a thumbs up to drafting Mixon in the third round for Seattle.”
Oh well if John Clayton endorses it after being granted a rare interview…
Deary me.
I listened to that interview as it happened, didn’t make me feel like Mixon was apologetic, didn’t make me think highly of him or that he is just a kid who made a mistake, he didn’t sound really any kind of way but wanting the interview to be over. When Clayton talked to him about football he eased up but goodness, i want nothing to do with a guy like mixon, why in the world should we bother when we can have Jamaal Williams (who quite frankly i think would fit the ZBS better than any back in the class because i see vision from him that i don’t see much of anywhere else), Elijah Hood (who reminds me a lot of J stew a guy that PC gushes over), and Foreman (230 and fast, didn’t want to butcher his first name). I would take all those guys in the 3rd over a clean wrap sheet version of Mixon in round 2. I feel that ball carrier vision is something i see go by the wayside to testing and numbers on this site at times, which to be honest is what i think the Hawks did with Christine Michael. The Michael selection is the reason i think they’ll be weary of drafting just another athletic profile, i think they’ll be looking more at short area burst and ZBS style vision, which is fairly different from what you see with the typical man blocking scheme running back out of college, they need to be able to see the hole on the other side of the line and break for it. All the guys listed above would have pretty much the exact same learning curve as Mixon without any of the issues or headaches that come along with drafting someone who has a video tape of them punching anyone in the face the way Mixon did.
Volume 12. What round do you think Holden will go?
I saw some of Siragusa last season because I live in SoCal and get Aztec games. Unfortunately I didn’t get to watch as much CFB as I wanted (due to family and professional pressures), but what I did see impressed me. Siragusa was a big part of Pumphrey being the all-time leader in rushing yards in NCAA Division I FBS history.
You’re right about Siragusa, CHawk, he definitely helped pave the way, for Pumphrey’s record year. I wouldn’t mind seeing either Siragusa or Asiata in Seattle next year, so there would be some competition at the guard spot. Pushing Glowinski would be a good thing IMO.
The Seahawks only have two early picks. Their three third round picks are all towards the end of the round. You don’t “bank” on players helping you outside of the early-third, imo. If they can – great. But you don’t “bank” on it. Anything mid-third and beyond is more with an eye towards the future (unless you’re terrible as a team or a decent team at a terrible position).
Now Asiata’s in the 2nd? If they took him in the second I’d be very disappointed. Unless we are moving Ifedi out to tackle, we should be set at OG with Glow, Ifedi and Odhiambo. I don’t want us spending anything higher than a 4th or 5th on a guard.
If either Asiata or Siragusa are there at the end of the 3rd, then I think it would behoove the Seahawks to consider drafting one of them.
If they sign a tackle in free agency and spend one of their three third round picks on competition for Glowinski and Ifedi at guard, that seems fair to me.
Third round would be okay, I guess. I just feel like there are so many greater needs (and greater talents in the draft) than a guard who *might* be a bit better than Glowinski (by next year?) with anything higher.
You’re assuming they’ll only be a ‘bit’ better.
You know what they say about the word assume.
If Asiata was a lot better, it’d be well worth a day two pick.
Based on what I have seen from RB’s today I think they can wait and look in the UDFA market to add depth at the position.
I would like to see them add a TE early. I am still digging Engram.
The more I see and read about Njoku, the more I want that guy in blue and green. He’s probably my top “non-realistic” prospect in this draft (non-realistic in the sense that there’s really no way SEA will go TE at 26).
Agree 100%
Give me the athletic freaks in round one – Njoku fits that bill. Paired with Jimmy would be scary.
Yea scary for 4 attempts thrown there way a game combined
My sarc detector catching a slight reading
I think if he somehow fell to 26 he would have to be a consideration. They don’t make many freak athletes like that on this entire planet.
Also Jimmy is a FA next year and we know JS is always thinking a year or two ahead.
I think he will be a top 20 guy however.
That brings the total on the blog to 40 players who will be taken in the top 20. 🙂
Do you have the other 39 listed, Bobby?
He and Kamara are my favorite non-need picks. Though just to keep it spicy around here I almost thing Njoku at the 26 then followed by a run of defense makes sense. The TE position hasn’t ever really been solved until Graham but he’s only got one more year on his contract. Obviously, it’s a position that they look into as that they have invested time and capital in the position. Willson/Vannett/and of course Graham. I’m not sold on Seattle’s receiving corps relative to health and , sorry, Kearse’s inconsistent production. Opening up the passing game with two serious threats on top of Baldwin with Prich’s emergence and Lockett’s hopeful return to health could be amazing.
Funny as hell Bobby, I was thinking g the same thing. I hear all the time, we won’t have a shot at him because he’ll go top 20. Only 20 guys can go top 20
Looking at this draft class and how they scored compared to our needs, I’m leaning a lot more towards avoiding OL in the first but likely grabbing Asiata late 2nd or early 3rd (if we trade back and end up with an early 3rd). Probably not available in the late 3rd, but I think he’s someone who could come in and do a good job for us. I would see the line (with competition) looking like
LT: Fant v. Odhiambo
LG: Glowinski v. Odhiambo v. Asiata
C: Britt v. Asiata
RG: Ifedi v. Asiata v. Glowinski
RT: Gilliam (since offered new contract) v. Fant v. Ifedi
Entirely possible we miss out on all quality FA O-linemen, with PCJS looking for value with other FA areas. If Gilliam is not signed, they I imagine they’ll spend out for a quality vet RG/RT in the $6-$8M range.
If they end up missing on Asiata, they’ll probably grab just later competition/developmental projects and sign another Webb/Evans in the second wave of FA.
What makes anyone think Rees can beat out Fant after Fant was the rookie who got all the experience last year?
Maybe Tonya Harding is watching that competition closely.
Oh great, you just threw a hubcap at him
Who said that Odhiambo would beat out Fant? I doubt he could. He’s competition and swing backup. But if Fant doesn’t push himself and Odhiambo does, Fant could lose the starting position.
Wish all players would participate in all the drills unless they have a genuine injury. Annoying seeing players foregoing the 40 until their pro day etc. Just run it with a sore ankle. Disappointing when arguably the top two WRs in the class will not be running their 40s this weekend. Mike Williams is obviously afraid we will see how slow he is when he fails to break into the 4.70s on national tv. 😉
Interesting results. Bolles… One can hope. Was very interested in seeing Aviante Collins finish the drills. He seemed like a real candidate to be a TEF star. A lot to like about Dorian Johnson. Also, shout out to Sean Harlow (Oregon State). Put up some decent TEF scores and has played all line positions in his time here but probably will have to move inside. Totally irrational, but I kind of like the Deangelo Henderson kid at RB. Maybe this years Pope as a UDFA.
Note from Pauline today:
“Defensive lineman Terrell McClain is finding a large market for his services. The versatility to line up as a one-technique, three-technique or zero-technique lineman has increased his attractiveness to teams.
As has been reported over the past few weeks, I can confirm the Atlanta Falcons and Seattle Seahawks are interested in approaching McClain once free agency begins.”
http://draftanalyst.com/combine-report-32-free-agency-rumors-more
Per Pauline as well:
“Receiver Alshon Jeffery has said he wants to sign with a contender, but that won’t stop the San Francisco 49ers. Several sources tell me the team will go hard after the wideout once he hits the open market.”
No way they land him, unless they throw stupid money at him. SF doesnt even have a qb! Guess we’ll find out if Jefferey really wants to win, or if he’s just in it for the money, because I can totally see SF backing up the truck for this guy.
Erick Decker may be available, and Marshall is out there too.
I would really like to see Mike Williams in Seattle–6′-4″ and 218?! Plus how funny would that be to have a big receiver named Mike Williams again lol?! Wont happen though…
If you sign with a contender for less money there’s no guarantee that you will win anything. But you ARE guaranteed to make less money.
It’s almost always about the money, and I can’t blame them.
One last interesting note from Pauline:
“One rarely thinks about tax implications when it comes to veteran free-agent contracts but from what I heard today, more and more big-ticket free agents are looking at teams located in tax-friendly states.
The example given today was Ndamukong Suh, who signed with the Miami Dolphins in the tax-friendly state of Florida.
Based on his contract guarantee of $60 million, the Detroit Lions would’ve had to increase Suh’s guarantee to $65 million in order to keep pace with the Dolphins. The Oakland Raiders would’ve had to up the ante to $70 million in order to equal Suh’s after-tax income from the Dolphins’ contract offer.”
I truly feel we will draft an Offensive Lineman with one of our 5 picks in the draft day 1- 2. A Lamp in the Forrest may be able to help our O-line read their playbook! Forrest seems like a likely target for
sure!
Go Hawks
Hey Craig! How you been my man?
I would totally agree with you about Lamp if SEA were willing to move Ifedi outside. But since Lamp is too short to play OT, and SEA seem intent on leaving Ifedi where he is, I gotta think any OL they draft early would need to be able to play tackle from a need/value perspective.
Otherwise, I could see them interested in Moton in R2. Based on his performance in the movement drills today, he looks like he could play RT (and he’s versatile – can play OG and OT). He needs to improve his BP performance to pass TEF/wTEF though.
If they do want an OG, I can totally see SEA taking Asiata in R3 (or maybe even Siragusa).
I always appreciate your enthusiasm, energy and friendliness buddy!
I just watched Moton vs. Wisconsin 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9KMn9I8lzQ
Holds up well in pass pro. Not going to get beaten by a bull rush. Watt beat him just once around the corner and he got away with a blatant hold, and then beat him a couple different times with the push-pull; maybe that tells you he’s leaning forward a bit ala Cam Robinson.
In run blocking though, he doesn’t move as well as his testing today would suggest IMO. Nearly no chance at getting to a second level defender and kind of jogs off the end of plays after his initial block, which I didn’t really like either. And with all his mass, he only put guys on the ground when they were off balance already chasing the ball carrier laterally.
I’m not going to rule him out by any means, but I wasn’t encouraged by this game. Hopefully someone will be able to see more than I.
His best tape is vs tOSU in 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70QjTg_X0uM
Granted he was at RG in that game, but it was against top level competition. He has some excellent run blocks and moves pretty well to the 2nd level.
The consensus among seasoned scouts is that he’s an OG in the NFL, and that may be. But he moves pretty well for a guy his size, and has acceptable length. I’m intrigued by a RT-RG combo of him and Ifedi. That’s some serious size and athleticism.
Ok, I will check him out at guard later.
The “problem” for us is if they are so dead set on keeping Ifedi at RG, then you would be drafting Moton pretty specifically for RT.
Either way, give me Asiata instead.
I rather like Asiata too. But he’s purely an interior OL in the NFL. At least Moton can, and has, played outside.
I wonder if Asiata hasn’t worked himself out of range for SEA in R3, and I wouldn’t spend a R2 on an OG in this draft. Perhaps Siragusa would be a target in R3.
I agree Eric, seems like the only way we draft Lamp is if I fed moves to RT. If not you have 3 guards for 2 spots. I could see Asiata later because it would be 3rd round. 1st round needs to be starting.
Ifedi
Agree with Chawk. I like Asiata. But Asiana is a guard. What do you do with Glowinski/Ifedi? Hawks need help at OT.
But there are truly and honestly zero tackles that are in Seattle’s draftable range at any round that you can concretely say…”this guy is better than Gilliam.” There are Tackles to draft and HOPE they can be better.
Ik now the combine isn’t the only place to find players but it’s the first spot to look at and right now it’s a desert. Unless Seattle is moving up for Bolles, who then? Maybe, maybe Moton. But even he looks better at Guard. He has SOME experience at tackle. I could be wrong but I think it’s 6 games not in a power five conference. I’m not opposed to drafting him and having an honest battle between he and Gilliam.
Ultimately it’s difficult to wrap my head around what PC and JS meant when they spoke about OL being a need and a veteran presence. When you also go on to say Fant’s your guy and Ifedi’s your RG. Are they drafting a guard to challenge Glowinski? Are they paying (hopefully not overpaying) a second tier Swing Tackle for insurance.
I understand the want/desire to go Defense but, look at the statistics. If we have a reliable offense our defense (which has already been top 5 for 5 year) does not have to stay on the field as much. Dallas’ defense was not nearly the same as ours but when you take TOP into consideration that makes a huge difference. I can’t see us going D, D or even D,D,D UNLESS we get a free agent signing somewhere in the books. And about our depth. If we decrease the amount of snaps on the defensive side is that not the same as adding depth to our line? Keeping our players fresher longer is the name of the game right? Lets correct the TOP. Even if our defense slides to top 7 with a middling to upper middle offense we would easily win 12 games.
If we fail to invest overwhelmingly on defense then we become defensively average. The formula is average offense and extraordinary defense.
We can have a reliable offense if we refocus on the running game. PC suggested in post season comments that the play calling would in fact by modified. It was frustrating to watch them have a successful series running the ball only to have Bevel call nothing but passes on the ensuing series. Against Detroit the o-line showed they could use their athleticism to dominate in the run game using a slightly modified blocking technique. The seemed to abandon that protocol against Atlanta. We have to be able to run even when they play for the run. That’s how you get the “bully” mentality back and how you win the fourth quarter which is Pete’s game plan.
I disagree about their strategy vs ATL. They came out pretty much the same way they did vs DET, with some pretty dominating run blocking. Ifedi’s injury was the fly in that ointment.
Our defense had trouble getting off the field this year, especially on 3rd and longs. It wasn’t all on the offense’s inability to sustain drives. Outside of Frank Clark they haven’t drafted a defensive player that has proven worthy of getting a second contract since 2012 (Jarran Reed might end up being #2). That’s four drafts with only really hitting on one defensive player. All the players on the team are one year older, without the up and coming players on defense to take over when the time comes.
In a draft this stacked on that side of the ball it only makes sense to lean that way in the draft. Just my 2 cents.
Agree. I think we take an offensive player somewhere in those first four picks, but I’d bet we go at least 3/5 on defense to start the draft.
I’m not convinced you are correct. On the other hand, I am convinced a lunch would be coming my way if you accept my bet that they at least go DD.
🙂
The Hawks have a NEED at linebacker. Number 2. Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas are starting to break down. Number 3 the Hawks need another cornerback. Number 4 you can ALWAYS use another guy who can get after the QB. Numerry 5 Michael Bennett/Cliff Avril are not getting any younger. Number 6 can you depend on Rawls/Prosise staying healthy. Number 7 the Hawks biggest need is Offensive Tackle. Number 8 Jimmy Graham has only one year left on his contract. With all that being said why would you take a guard early in the draft?
And Pauline’s latest has Lamp being looked at by Broncos for their pick at 20 …
Works for me. Lamp may be a terrific OG prospect, but SEA can’t afford to spend their R1 pick on that position. They have other, more pressing needs like OT, LB and DB. Fortunately they should be able to find good value at 26 for 2 of those positions (or even after a modest trade down).
Can you add some TEFs for pro bowl caliber players for reference….e.g., where would Walter Jones fit?
Do those measureables correlate to solid players?
I don’t see any point really.
TEF isn’t designed to prove whether a player is good or not. It’s designed to tell us who the Seahawks might draft. The whole formula is based around Tom Cable’s self-confessed ideal physical profile. It’s not a way of determining who will be successful.
FWIW — I don’t think Walter Jones attended the combine.
Well so far it’s an unsuccessful ideal physical profile….[sorry you left the door open for that one]…..
Doesn’t matter.
I’ll say it again — TEF is only here to help us as fans determine who the Seahawks might draft (and it does it well). If people want to discuss their approach to drafting players, that’s a totally different conversation and topic.
I don’t want this the comments section in this thread to become another long-winded debate about their approach to drafting O-line. But I’ll leave with this — because it’s important. Anyone who thinks the problem in Seattle is the concept of drafting with the intention to develop explosive athletes is mistaken. The reason why people believe they are getting it wrong is because they assume the Seahawks are constantly passing on weaker athletes who ‘play well’ in college. In reality, college football is one titanic void when it comes to ‘good play’ on the O-lines. Spread offenses and High School athletes using their preference to play defense as a recruiting tool is killing O-line play. The good O-liners go early and the teams are doing a good job identifying them (eg Jack Conklin). If you pick at the end of every round like Seattle, YOU ARE NOT getting anywhere near a player like Conklin. And you have to find an alternative.
Drafting explosive, highly talented athletes with the potential to be great is not a bad alternative. It makes perfect sense. And if people are willing to finally accept how raw, green and inexperienced that 2016 unit was — they might start to appreciate everything Schneider and Carroll are saying about the future of this group.
+1
Also teams that continually draft at the end of rounds appear to be doing something right. Just getting the top prospects doesn’t equal wins.
+2
+3
TEF might be a way to determine who Seattle might take in the draft. If that is their formula they have to take a look at their method.
We’ve been over this SO many times.
There is a complete DEARTH of offensive line talent in college. They are doing what they are doing because they HAVE to come up with a solution.
If people think they’re passing on good O-liners ‘just to get athlete’, that is a mistaken opinion.
+100
True (as many have talked about before), but more times than not, the higher the TEF, the higher your ceiling. And as Rob has pointed out, the Hawks are all about athletic ability and ceiling. I am with you too a point though, sometimes I think they use this too much and void solid OL that have experience. I would love it as a tool, but not sure as the main thing, not too fond it.
Another statistic was the number of pro bowlers and a vertical jump over 35″ (I think it was 35). Explosion number that Rob constantly talks about.
Rob more or less says it is a tool to eliminate a bunch of guys who do not fit the “Seattle” scheme they are running. Then, you are left with guys who you can focus in on… explore/research more headed into the draft. I think it is very useful when you start looking for or at the late round guys… why they pick who they pick in the 6th/7th rounds.
Open question: Defensive lines are a rotation of a least six or seven players. One of the reasons for rotating is to keep the DL fresh throughout the game. Nobody seems to have a planned rotation for the offensive line with freshness in mind. Doesn’t that put the offensive line at a disadvantage later in the game?
For the offensive line, established communication is more important than on the defensive line. New England did experiment with a rotation in 2015, but their o-line was pretty bad then. It’s pretty much about communication.
Which is why outside maybe 1 spot, I think the OL will do much better with chemistry. Let them grow together. Go defense first 3 rounds, then some competition.
The genesis of my question is the running game. If your line is spending most of its time pass blocking then communication is critical and it’s physically easier to hold position than to be the aggressor. However, the run game and specifically the Hawk’s run game, is more physically demanding and creates more injuries among the o-line group. It seems to me that a young, physically talented o-line would benefit from a more aggressive blocking scheme that maximized their physical talent and minimized their reliance on communication skills. If you’re going to do that then people are going to get worn down unless you rotate them.
I’ve thought about that before Dale. Only answer I have is that the Oline needs contiunity where the DLine doesnt. But it still doesn’t seem right
Last year New England used a “rotation” at OL to start the season. The reasons had more to do with injured vets than philosophy. The initial results were more positive than expected and you can google a couple articles written at the time including interviews with the O-line coach. But, after a short time the results began to decrease and as soon as the vets could play again, the rotation experiment ended. I haven’t seen anything since then giving a look back at the lessons learned.
Alvin Kamara — 5-10, 214lbs, 39.5 inch vert, 10-11 broad
This guy got himself into the 3rd round based upon these measurables. The off the field stuff will need to get sorted out, but very impressive numbers today.
As for wTEF….. 2 guys really are the major targets for Seattle in the bottom of the second round.
I’m not terribly familiar with Siragusa, but he had a very solid pro day. I’m thinking he is a third round OL pick for a team.
Nico Siragusa — 99.8
Isaac Asiata — 95.6 (I got my eye on you)
I think Kamara will go in the top-45.
John Clayton mentioned on local radio that at least 3 teams have him totally off their board to draft. He doesn’t believe Seattle ownership would sign off on drafting him, but isn’t 100% on that. He personally would draft the guy, but the NFL (owners) are a bit sensitive right now with off the field problems.
Clayton was talking about Mixon.
Wow, really like the tape on Asiata vs. a talented Washington defensive front.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTMcR9ahtq0
He’s got this neat little lateral hop-skip when he pulls that is amazingly fast for a guy his size. One time he even got to the other side so fast he ran right past the defender in front of him.
He and Will Holden are my two favorites for the moment. Targeting Asiata in R3 might be better value than Moton in R2, if that’s how it seems likely to fall. (Pauline said Moton would be a top 45 lock if he tested well in short agility tests, which he certainly did- 4.58 shuttle and 7.73 3C. Very impressive) Still need to watch tape of Moton at G, Siragusa, and Aviante Collins, who seems would have likely qualified per TEF.
As a side note, I like what RB Joe Williams brings to the table, but anyone who takes him needs to remember what kind of line he was running behind. A straight line speed guy like that needs some holes in front of him.
Good point especially considering that on this site alone we are debating the merits of two of their Linemen and I’m pretty sure even Tevi will find a home come draft day, so possibly 3 draftable linemen two of which could easily go in the first two rounds. Pretty good line.
I do wonder about Williams with the straight line speed which is great how that would work in Seattle’s version of the ZBS. If they ran power predominantly like the Detroit game I’d see no conflict
I am intrigued by what Christian McCaffrey would do for this Offense. RW might end up loving him. Baldwin, Graham, Lockett, Richardson & McCaffrey would stretch & stress any defense (assuming we can block for a few seconds).
He could co-exist well with Rawls & C.J. imho. Also brings that special teams ability. We have a “type” at RB for sure and he’s not it but he’s got a very interesting tool chest.
Have you heard his interview with the press. Talking about being disrespected / under appreciated…. he sounds a bit entitled to me. Not a good fit.
To be fair, you can also hear his interviews as he plays with a chip on his shoulder and knows he’ll need to prove himself again in the NFL. Pretty Seahawky attitude really.
I think he’s a little small to use a top 45 pick on, but he could be a dangerous Prosise-like RB/WR matchup for an offense. And due to their love of scrappy white guys, the media loves his fit with NE.
And why shouldn’t he be?
He’s a baller. They asked him if he feels slighted and he says he always has a chip on his shoulder.
Characters a big positive imo
We need competition in that RB room
Christian is a smaller prosise. It makes no sense to draft him.
Brock Huard is really high on McCaffrey. However he said the Hawks have bigger needs early in the draft.
McCaffrey caught the ball so effortlessly in those drills. They even tried to throw him a high one and he still went up and got it. Prosise is faster though.
Prosise is about 20lbs heavier.
Here’s a mock a just wrote.
1. Browns – Myles Garret
2. 49ers – Solomon Thomas
3. Bears – Jonathan Allen
4. Jaguars – Jamal Adams
5. Titans – Marshon Lattimore
6. Jets – Garret Bolles
7. Chargers – Malik Hooker
8. Panthers – Forrest Lamp
9. Bengals – Leonard Fournette
10. Bills – Sidney Jones
11. Saints – Taco Charlton
12. Browns – Marlon Humphrey
13. Cardinals – Mitch Trubisky
14. Eagles- Rueben Foster
15. Colts – Derek Barnett
16. Ravens – Takkarist McKinley
17. Washington – Malik McDowell
18. Titans – John Ross
19. Buccaneers – OJ Howard
20. Broncos – Cam Robinson
21. Lions – Tre’davious White
22. Dolphins – Haason Reddick
23. Giants – Ryan Ramcyzk
24. Raiders – Jarrad Davis
25. Texans – Pat Mahomes
26. Seahawks – Zach Cunningham
27. Chiefs – Mike Williams
28. Cowboys – David Njoku
29. Packers – Dalvin Cook
30. Steelers – Charles Harris
31. Falcons – Tim Williams
32. Patriots – Christian McCaffrey
I’ll write my explanations for each pick later.
One of the more accurate recently imo
Bengals going RB nice
There is no accurate, the draft hasn’t happened and nothing is set in stone, switch one pick and every GMs decision changes.
He meant accurate based on reasonable and knowledgeable opinions. If you want to take that tact, then it would be better not to read the website and wait for the draft. We are all the suite aware that the draft hasn’t occured.
Ugh, autocorrect… quite aware….
I like the Thomas pick by the 49ers. But I think Leonard Fournette is one of the top 5 players in this draft. Don’t think Fournette will drop all the way to the number nine spot in the draft.
For RBs, I’ve mainly focused my film watching solely around the RBs with our height/weight preferences and just glossed over the rest… Well today while watching the combine, I loudly exclaimed “Holy Hell” and “This Cat is Cut From Stone”, at lunch with my coworkers.
Coastal Carolina RB, De’Angelo Henderson
5’7″ 208 lb/29″ Arms/9-1/2″ Hands
4.48 40
20 Bench
34″ Vert
10′ Broad
So of course.. I scoured the internet and sadly only found 2014 vs NDSU and 2016 vs Lamar, along with highlights. But from what I watched, I felt like I was watching a cross between Rawls and MJD.
What I learned about him:
~He scored TDs in 35 Consecutive Games (1 shy of Danny Woodheads Record)
~64 Total TDs in his 4 Year Career.
~Career YPC 6.43
~In 3 seasons accumulated 818 touches… Which is a hefty load, especially on a smaller frame (but was against weaker competition).
His attributes just fly off the page, being mainly lined up out of shotgun.
~He’s quite decisive when attacking the L.O.S, has a Rawls-Esque FIERCE Jump Cut both stopping/starting and in full motion.
~Willingly a decent pass protector and is actually really natural at catching the ball. (97 career receptions)
~Best of all he’s a pinball with great balance and low center of gravity that seems to seek out contact, drags defenders with him, runs through contact, and has plenty of breakaway speed.
I’m quite sure as our picks our situated I wouldnt spend a 3rd rounder on him, but I’d definitely take out that 6th round flyer. On that Late Round note Another RB, VERY similar to Henderson with minimal buzz is Miami’s Joe Yearby and Yearby does have an adequate amount of film available.
Here’s scouting and highlights on De’Angelo Henderson
https://www.google.com/amp/draftblaster.com/2017-NFL-Draft/schools/coastal-carolina/deangelo-henderson-rb-coastal-carolina/amp/
That’s pretty cool, thanks.
I started catching onto him a few weeks ago. Definitely one to keep an eye on.
Impressive numbers for DeAngelo Henderson. However 800+ touches is a TON of touches. With that being said Henderson could be a nice compliment to Rawls/Prosise if they took him later in the draft. With all that being said Collins actually look started to look like a keeper at the end of the season.
Cunningham is the guy I want in round 1.
I would advocate trading a third in order to move up and secure Cunningham.
Hmmm… not a 1st rounder imo. Still can’t get over his Tennessee game. It was brutal.
The Tennessee game where he had a team high 9 solo tackles, 1 forced fumble, 1 forced fumble overturned, 1 fumble recovery, and a highlight reel pass defended on the goal line?
It’s an interesting game you guys picked. He did have a great game with the Forced Fumbles.
Solo tackles are kind of a strange stat. Actually tackles in general though. Because they are an important stat and you’d like to see you’re captain and LB have a good deal of them.
But he also in that game gave two TD’s on the ground to Kamara with what is his own bad tackling form. He has him dead to rights two times but does a crappy shoulder tackle/ drag down thing, which Kamara easily breaks. And kamara’s 2nd of 3 TD’s he hits him near the line of scrimmage but can’t seem to get his arms out and around to tackle him.
I like Cunningham but I’m not convinced he brings anything extra to Seattle. He’s got great length he’s pretty good in coverage. He’s kind of bad with his open field tackling. He goes off and on seeking contact.
At 26 sure. With an extra pick to move up. No for me. Id’ rather them use an extra pick to move up and get Obi which I think will be necessary after this weekend and pick Davis in the second.
I slightly preferred Davis and Reddick to Cunningham pre-Combine but I love Zach’s measurements. Can’t wait to see the drills.
Ditto, but I still prefer Reddick. I think he’ll be a pro bowler one day for sure and probably sooner than later. Reuben Foster just got dismissed from the combine for getting into it with a hospital worker, interesting…
They all measured as expected.
I’m hoping Foster falls now
I remember being pretty disappointed Foster after he cheap shotted Trey Adams and then complained about uw cheap shots…
I prefer Watt over all of the above….
Cunningham has great measurements for sure. Not so much his BP but all the rest of the tests. I’m pretty bummed That Davis can’t do drills until his pro day. After Reddick he’s easily my favorite LB.
I mean to say I don’t think he will have great BP numbers but I think he will test well in a lot of the other categories.
I like Cunningham a lot. But I would not trade a third round pick to move up to snag him. Brock Huard said he would trade a third round pick to move up to take Bolles/Ramczyk. That I would agree with.
Just saw Foster was thrown out of the combine for some heated issue with the medical staff.
Gotta wait for details on that
It is amazing to watch him, but his measurements were lower than expected, and now with this new red flag, we could see a drop. If he is there, you take him. Just watch him play.
According to an article on deadspin, he pulled the “do you know who I am?” Bit on a hospital employee and threatened to lay hands on the guy. Don’t know why anyone would pull that, it doesn’t seem to impress anyone.
“Don’t know why anyone would pull that”: Indeed. That’s one of the problems with Deadspin’s believability.
Also, the guy who saw the incident said no violence. When you think about somebody who’s there saying no violence, and Deadspin has a rep for revving up the stories to get them read, well, I assume Deadspin’s take is, um, not exactly right, until somebody else verifies that take.
I am very interested in seeing what Zach Cunningham will do but I am concerned that he may be one of those guys who jumps why up in the draft.I also believe Reuben foster did in cost him some money today.
Yup. I fear one of Detroit, Oakland, Miami, New York and Houston won’t be able to pass up.
Guys Not to change the subject. But think about it. George Fant never played a down in college at tackle. He comes into the NFL and start s at left tackle. To me that is amazing. I understand he needs more reps. But that is like being thrown into the fire. My hats off George Fant.
Agreed.
Yes. And he’s grown already in his rookie year. I’m amazed that some people already want to kick Fant aside.
I don’t want to kick Fant aside but I want to be real. What he did last year was amazing to go from college basketball to NFL offensive line. He has athleticism and he has upside and he handled last year’s adversity/growing pains with remarkable resiliency according to Schneider, Cable and Pete. They all expect his growth to continue this season, perhaps even exponentially. Those are all very encouraging things.
But, here is where it gets real. Fant’s Level of play last year was terrible. He graded as the worst starting tackle in the NFL. His level of play has to improve dramatically. If he improved from an F to a C this year, I would consider that a tremendous success. But, will he? Or will his progress stall? Remember Gilliam went from athletic in drafted college to (below-average) NFL starter and the optimism was he would continue to improve last season from D to C. His ceiling was high and he was even being considered a future LT. But, he didn’t grow. And there are no guarantees with Fant:
So, if you can get a C grade veteran LT for 2017 in free agency, you already achieve the best case scenario for Fant. Give Fant a chance to compete and if he grows and earns the job, that would be awesome.
But, you have to have a plan B for Fant (and Gilliam) for 2017. This is team competing for a championship in 2017. Every part of the team needs to be built towards that goal. Our offensive tackles are clearly the weakest part of the team.
Again, ” He graded as the worst starting tackle in the NFL” by PFF. We can’t know their judgment, but we do know they graded the Seahawks line pre-season, and don’t you know, they graded the Seahawks the worst in the league after. In the second half in the season, they were better, and Fant was clearly better. I don’t care what PFF says if we can’t look at their system. You say “he didn’t grow”. That is clearly wrong, to me.
Gilliam played better at the end of the season too. He had injury issues early on which slowed his progress. You have to ask yourself, how long has he been playing tackle? I’ll give him a pass. I think they were protecting Odi after coming off injury issues his Jr. and Sr. season’s at Boise St. To me the weak link on the O-line was Glowinski, the last man off the line.
Watch TJ Watt move up the draft board’s today. GO HAWKS!!!!
Trade in the work’s with Dallas, Washington and the 49er’s? Kapp to Seattle? Rumor Mill….
If Jerry Jones helps Washington out of their quarterback dilemma, he is a fool. And Kap will get starter money somewhere so no way he comes to Seattle.
Seattle has the 6th lowest cap space in the NFL. They probably get one veteran FA in the $6-8 million range. And based on the comments from Pete and JS, they want that guy to be an OT.
But the rumor stuff is fun to bring up and I didn’t mean to sound like I was getting after you D-Oz. You were just reporting, not saying either was likely.
CB Gareon Conley
6’/195 lbs
33″ arms
9 1/2″ hands
Great measurements. Can’t wait to see how he tests.
I’ll admit I was predisposed last year around draft time so I wasn’t able to visit this site as much. I mention that because I swear from a couple years ago their seems to be a lot more people getting their draft info from Rob, or at least joining the conversation. Am I right? Because I used to be able to go through and read all the comments without needing to take a nap. More importantly, Carroll said that the Hawks would be aggressive in free agency addressing the o-line. Of course after free agency we may be knocking some players off our draft list, but since he said it I don’t think they would even draft Bolles with the chance. They’ve been going with a certain formula, following Cables lead for years and look where it’s got them… I think Cable has lost all credibility with Carroll and Schneider as a college talent evaluator. And if he doesn’t coach our line to average by week 8 he is gone. Coaches need to compete for their spot too or else what are u teaching the team?
I also just went through and read some of Rob’s comments on the whole o-line criteria thing. I realize I am guilty of not understanding their is a method that although may not be showing everyone’s desired results, when it comes to the draft and with where we are normally drafting, our options are severely limited. That’s why we are moving away from that and getting guys with some NFL experience in free agency. Please don’t yell at me
🙂
Ben Braden — 87.8
His size and 34″ arms suggest he could be a viable OT prospect. Thoughts on him?