Bruce Irvin would’ve been a Jet after all?


  1. Belgaron

    Schneider used the 12th pick to obtain Bruce Irvin, Jaye Howard, and Jeremy Lane. He played the game of Chicken without equal, getting maximum value while still assuring the team of getting the guy they really wanted for a role they really needed. Depending on how these guys careers go, they could make the talent evaluators look brilliant as well. But for now it is overdue time to give Schneider a nod for knowing his craft when it comes to draft pick management. The only mind-boggling thing about it is how bad the “draft experts” blew their analysis about the truth of what happened.

  2. hawkfan

    This reinforces some peoples idea that the Seahawks could have dropped down a little bit more and gained draft picks, because the Jets were not going to take him right there and they would have been able to save some value. In the end, they got the guy they wanted and you can’t fault them for that. We’ll just have to watch him play and see how he works out for ourselves.

    • Kip Earlywine

      Good point, though the Chargers were also a rumored team after Irvin, so I hope they wouldn’t have dropped much further than they did.

  3. A. Simmons

    Probably spooked the Jets as well which is why they took Coples right after rather than dropping into the 20s.

  4. John

    It doesn’t matter where Irvin was taken, he’s a Hawk now and fans need to stop dwelling on justifying the pick. Even if no one was going to take him it doesn’t matter. We took him at 15 and honestly it doesn’t matter. Carroll knows soooooo much more about Irvin than Kiper or Colin or *insert random mainstream analyst*. He’s a Hawk now. Time to move on and get excited about rookie minicamp!

    • Doug

      for sure, let’s moooove along folks, nuthin here to see anymore, everything has been cleaned up, and put away.
      The only cool thing about the pundits foolishness will be next years when Irvin has about 12 sacks after 4 games, and they are starting to double him, so Clem will also havve about 5 sacks, and Jones 4, and the Hawks will be undefeated, and have the #1 defense in the league, and Kyper will be wearing a diaper from his endless self-crapping every time he sees another Hawk sack…

      • pqlqi

        wow… gotta love the internet

  5. Cameron

    Rob, you know the credibility of these sources better than most. I do find it hard to believe a team like the Steelers, which pride themselves with their mid-round finds, would be willing to go without a few of those mid round picks for a guard. It just doesn’t seem like something that team would do.

    Not that any of this matters a whole lot. The draft pundits like Mel Kiper criticized the pick on the basis that the Seahawks could’ve traded down, collected more picks and still gotten their man, as if the draft was conducted in hindsight. Kudos to Schneider et al for standing their ground and getting their man.

    • Kip Earlywine

      I don’t find it hard to believe personally. I mean the Patriots have an equally strong reputation of moving down not up, and they moved up TWICE in that same first round because teams were so open to moving picks for reasonable prices.

  6. Steve in Spain

    Sewing together multiple sources, it appears the Jets were going to trade down first with the Chargers (at 18) and then maybe bounce down further from there, possibly with the Steelers. No source anywhere (other than Carroll) has claimed that the Jets were going to take at their original pick of 16 overall.

  7. Jman

    You could have bought stock in Apple (APPL) 2 years ago @ $250 or a year ago @ $300. It wouldn’t matter much because it’s almost $600 today.

    If Irvin becomes a sacking machine, who cares if we could have gotten another 4th or 5th for him ? We got our man, and that’s all that matters.

    And for those who said we should have kept gambling and trading down… look at what happened the 2nd round. We lost our prime target (Kendricks) because we got a little too cute.

  8. dave crockett

    I’m in the camp that says it doesn’t matter much what the market was for Irvin. The more compelling rationale for picking him so high is the new CBA.

    The fact is, the Irvin pick was probably the first–at least it’s symbolically the first–to really implement the new thinking inspired by the new CBA. It used to be a “reach” to draft specialists in the first round because it was stupid expensive to pay for a guy who isn’t an “every down player.” (And to be clear, “pass rush specialist” is Irvin’s floor–not his ceiling.) Now, first round picks are a) not nearly so expensive, and b) the contracts are far more standardized.

    With pretty close to 100% cost certainty for rookies, a guy doesn’t have to be scheme or situation transcendent to justify a high pick. Really, all you do is ask: If we think Irvin is likely to average 8-14 sacks over his first four years, could we get that at market rates for less than we’re paying now?

    I think the answer is a resounding no. You could get lucky, like Houston did after we let Jasin Babin go. But you can’t go out and get a guy with that kind of rep in his prime for what we’ll pay Irvin. So, the “reach” issue is moot. And what’s more, Aldon Smith should have put to rest any of the questions about drafting a specialist with a high pick.

    • Kip Earlywine

      That’s an interesting way to look at it.

      And for what it’s worth I think the Irvin draft stock stuff may not be important when the players take the field, but still gets reported on because it impacts the draft day narrative. If Irvin fails, Carroll will take extra heat because people would think he reached so badly for Irvin in the first place. If a guy like Trent Richardson had fallen to our pick and he had failed during his career here, people would have given Carroll more leeway since it’s a move anyone would have made. But if Irvin fails, it will look a bit like passing on Brett Favre for Dan McGwire in some fans minds.

      So I think this stuff matters, but only in a purely political sense. Keeping your job is about more than just not losing games, it’s about managing perceptions- just ask Mike Shanahan- who was building a great team in Denver but got fired anyway because of some unpopular decisions. So it’s nice hearing these reports come out which alleviates some of that perception pressure. It’s also nice to know that Seattle did not likely miss an opportunity by turning down the chance to trade down again.

  9. Misfit74

    Thinking of Irvin being a Jet instead of a Seahawk makes me nauseous.

    I saw reports previously about the Jets wanting to take Irvin and the fact the FO didn’t want to get too cute and move back too far and miss him. Those reports said that the Jets would have taken Irvin if we had dropped down in a trade-back. This news seems to expound upon that story in more detail which also gives some validation or merit to the earlier story. Good stuff. So glad we got our guy.

  10. nepacific

    They probably could have traded down again and still got him, but that would have been getting too cute (lol). They were right not to be too greedy — as long as Bruce turns out to be the guy they think he is and we hope he is.

  11. Akki

    I feel Canfora’s account of the Jets’ maneuvering in the 1st round might mirror what the Seahawks faced in the 2nd. They may have had Kendricks and Wagner approximately equal, and had a trade-down set up if both were still available at #47. Kendricks gets snatched up, risk of trading down is too high, and they take Wagner. They can still claim that they got “the guy we wanted all along” in Wagner.

  12. Belgaron

    The thing about Irvin is it’s not just the sacks, its the pressures, the breaking down of the pocket, and the interceptions. The reason why it was so important to get a pass rusher was because the ‘Hawks have four guys capable of getting 6+ interceptions a piece this year plus several nickel-dime backs who will chip in a few as well. And they added more sacks without giving up their stout run stoppage as Red is also back to stay and he was the lynch pin to shutting down the run. A defense is only as strong as its weakest link and they went after that link by getting the guy they judged as the best pass rusher in the draft as they had their choice of any of them. The happiest four guys on the team with the selection of Irvin were ET, KC, BB, and RS because his addition is going to make them all viable all pro selections.

  13. Jake

    We drafted the best passrusher in the 2012 draft at #15!! In the immortal words of Short Round, “What the problem Dr. Jones?”

    Look at it this way, the #12 pick was the currency: So with that, we bought a Bruce Irvin, a Jeremy Lane and a Jaye Howard. I don’t care what Kiper, etc say – I don’t care if we could have moved down again. If had added an Iloka and lost Irvin… I would leave an empty feeling in my stomach.

    Example: Let’s say we trade down to #18 and add a 4th (Someone takes Irvin between 15-17)… So now it’s Coples, Jeremy Lane, Jaye Howard, and George Iloka. We added good players at two positions (Coples, Iloka). But I think the dynamic player (Irvin) is worth more than that.

    To me, the value of #12 was maximized because A) an elite playmaker was drafted at a position of need and B) We got two additional depth guys by moving down a little.

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