I’ve managed to catch up with Saturday’s college football (thanks YouTube) so here are the week nine notes…
— TCU receiver Jalen Raegor had another dynamic touchdown, this time in an impressive 37-27 win over Texas. Raegor is lightning quick and ate up the large cushion provided by the cornerback and just burned him off. The DB kept his eyes in the backfield too long and never felt the threat of Raegor’s speed. It’s testament to Raegor’s quickness that he had to play-off so much in the first place. He finished with two catches for 55 yards and the score, plus three runs for 15 yards. He’s not just a sprinter either — he’s shown plenty of evidence of sound catching technique, the ability to high-point and he’s had some impressive red zone catches.
— K.J. Hamler had a similar performance in an easy win for Penn State against Michigan State. He found a soft spot working from the slot to exploit the zone coverage, creating an easy pitch-and-catch. He still had to finish with some YAC and beat a DB to the goal line. Hamler had five catches for 57 yards and a score plus a run for five yards. He also had a third down drop. He’s diminutive but electric. Pass rusher Yetur Gross-Matos shared a TFL and had two QB hurries in the game.
— Alabama has three receivers with first round potential and they all excelled against Arkansas. Henry Ruggs caught a TD pass that seemed to be thrown to DeVonta Smith but was too high and still, somehow, found its way perfectly to Ruggs (who showed good concentration to make the completion in bounds). Smith is the master at slants, driving off the the break to create separation. On one play on Saturday he created so much separation he turned a simple slant into a 44 yard gain. That’s what he does. Jerry Jeudy had two touchdowns including getting in behind the defense for a 40 yard score. He can do it all — YAC, downfield, tough grabs. On defense Trevon Diggs had a pick six where he read the play perfectly and flashed his athleticism to finish. Diggs has massive potential.
— LSU’s Joe Burrow continues to impress, this time against Auburn. He completed 32/42 for 321 yards, a score and an interception. He also had a 31 yard touchdown run on a QB draw. With every passing week he looks like the top quarterback in college football. Bring on ‘Bama. In the same game (won 23-20 by LSU), Auburn’s Derrick Brown had a sack and two TFL’s. LSU cornerback Derek Stingley Jr. also had one of the best interceptions you’ll see this year to take points off the board right before half-time.
— Chase Young had an incredible performance in Ohio State’s 38-7 win over Wisconsin. He dominated throughout with four sacks and five TFL’s. He now has 13.5 sacks for the season already and will be a very high draft pick. J.K. Dobbins also excelled with 163 yards on 20 carries and three catches for 58 yards. He also had two touchdowns. Wisconsin running back Jonathan Taylor struggled to 52 yards on 20 carries and tight end Jake Ferguson was held to one catch for five yards.
— Minnesota hammered Maryland 52-10 and receiver Tyler Johnson had four catches for 37 yards and a touchdown. Anthony McFarland only managed 38 rushing yards on 10 carries, with 20 receiving yards on three catches. His best football will come at the next level.
— Tee Higgins had another quiet game for Clemson as they brushed aside Boston College 59-7. As his stock loses momentum could he return next year for one more season with Trevor Lawrence? Higgins had two catches for 36 yards. Travis Etienne had 109 rushing yards on 16 carries plus three touchdowns — while also adding three catches for 33 yards. Isaiah Simmons had 1.5 TFL’s and two QB hurries.
— Oklahoma receiver Ceedee Lamb had another incredible touchdown play in a shock 48-41 loss at Kansas State. Lamb took a bubble screen 70 yards as be bobbed and weaved through traffic like he was returning a kick. He finished with five catches for 135 yards. He looks like Cordarelle Patterson but with actual receiving skills. Jalen Hurts had a 395 yard passing day (19/26) with a passing touchdown, no interceptions, 96 rushing yards on 19 carries and three rushing scores. Oklahoma still can’t defend though and once again it has cost them.
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Boise St WR John Hightower has had a couple of big weeks, and has 26 catches for 455 yards and 5 TDs on the season. He’s growing on me big time, and think he could be a great option after the 1st wave of receivers go off the board.
He looks to be a great athlete, good acceleration, a weapon on screens/jet sweeps. Has blocked a punt in his career.
Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi5jw6HN100
Apparently there was a bidding war for the RB out of Miami, K. Drake and Arizona got him. I’m not sure how good he is but I would assume R. Penny would be worth more and now that Drake is off the board I would expect a higher demand.
I actually liked Penny coming out and thought we might take him in the second round but clearly he does not fit our scheme. I would be surprised to see him still on the roster by tomorrow.
Bidding war? Miami traded him for a conditional pick: a 6th that can become a 5th. I would hope Penny fetches more; expecting a 2nd for Penny.
I wouldn’t expect a R2 for Penny. A R3 seems reasonable.
Reality: R3
Dream: R2
I would also assume that would be a late R3 pick considering it would most likely be coming from a contender… which is why I am hesitant.
Why can’t we figure out how to use him correctly? Frustrating.
Well it depends. I wouldn’t consider Detroit a contender.
Don’t you think they used Penny correctly yesterday? I do.
very good point, chawk. maybe use him more often when we use him correctly?
To say he doesn’t fit our scheme is preposterous. You are saying he was not evaluated correctly. And I would say to that, they have people whose jobs are to determine just that.
The guy hasn’t even touched the ball enough to even make a statement like that. But I would say last Sunday he was pretty good and the Hawks didn’t trade him so all of this talk is just that…TALK. Let the guy play.
Could you see the Hawks grabbing another RB this draft?
It seems unlikely with the current roster, but given Penny’s limitations running hard and quick between the tackles, I wonder if they look to take another RB mid-round. Of course if Penny is traded and they get Mike Davis this year, I’d assume RB shoots to the near top of the draft need.
If they trade Penny, yes. If they keep Penny, not until later on.
For me if they can get a good deal for Penny and find a way to bring back Mike Davis, that would be fine. Then just see what day three or UDFA brings up.
Either way, I think they draft a RB on Day 3.
I’ve got my eye on Joshua Kelley from UCLA. He’s got the prototypical PC measurables — 5’11” 220lbs
In 11 games in 2018, he had 1243 yards on 225 carries (5.5 avg) and 12 TDs.
Through 7 games in 2019, he has 735 yards on 153 carries (4.8 avg) and 7 TDs.
I think he’d be a decent RB choice in R6.
I like Cincinnati RB Michael Warren II as a Day 3 option. Tough runner, great agility, kind of looks like he’s gliding, awesome receiver out of the backfield, good size to him @ 5’11” 223 lbs. His nickname is “Truck”. I think he could be a pretty decent Mike Davis-type replacement.
The run he breaks @ 0:20 mark is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCw-LTKuzi0
Rob, what do you think about the Oregon WR Juwan Johnson? Was he a transfer from another big school? He looked like a beast of a player on a few plays against WSU – big, fast and great hands…
Also, I really thought the WSU QB, Anthony Gordon, looked a lot like a young Aaron Rodgers. He stays very cool under pressure and has a really quick release. Looks like he can just flick the ball with his wrist and make a number of different throws. Still has a long way to go development wise and I get the WSU offense is QB friendly, but he looks legit to me!
Juwan Johnson has done nothing prior to that game. He had 2 catches for 36 yards through 7 other games. Highly doubt he gets drafted. Jacob Breeland (out for year) might be a good late round option at TE though.
I’ll also add that Micah Pittman may end up being a total stud. He’s a true freshman, and the highest recruit UO has ever signed at WR. Word is that he has an insane work ethic and never drops a pass. He’s got injured and missed some time early on, but he’s one to watch in the next couple of years.
He’s a transfer from another program right? Still learning the Ducks system which seems very run first. And did you watch the two catches he made? One was a fantastic diving grab and the other was almost a TD on a slant. He looks like he has some physical tools…
Oregon certainly has some OL prospects as well!
Yep, he came over from Penn St. We (Duck fans) were extremely excited to get him. He’s big, fast and our leading WR from last year left early (Dillon Mitchell) which left a huge number of targets available. Juwan’s knock coming in were the drops. Hard to say if he’s cleaned those up or not, based on sample size.
He does fit the prototype for a WR, and he’s been a good blocker on running plays. I’m just not sure he gets noticed with the stats he’s likely to put up.
The OL does have some nice prospects. The best of which is Penei Sewell (LT), but he’s only a Sophomore. Throckmorton, Lemieux and Hanson will probably all be drafted.
Would love if we drafted Throckmorton
I haven’t watched him I’m afraid.
How about this trade:
Rashaad Penny + Jarron Brown + 2020 3rd
for
OJ Howard + Peyton Barber + a 2020 5th
Swap of miscast former 1st round draft picks, reunites Brown with Arians, gives us a solid backup RB behind Carson, and adds a little draft capital to make ‘ol Bruce the biscuit bite!
I think it’s unlikely. Seems too weighted to Seattle.
Yeah, might have to sweeten the pot some for Bruce to do the deal. But they are playing Darboh at WR now and Ronald Jones as the RB. He also still has a serviceable TE in Brate and seems like they are ready to move on from Howard now. Will be interesting to see how this plays out…
One interesting thing that does stem from the idea of Jarron to TB is that Arians was just defending JW. He said that they INT’s were the fault of the WR’s running the wrong hot routes. Brown would have a leg up, in that he knows the system.
That being said, my understanding of TB needs is that they are looking for help at CB or DL, of which we have neither to spare. They probably want a #2 for Howard if I’m guessing, but maybe Brown and a #3. Penny to Detroit makes the most sense to me.
Ronald Jones is having a relatively good year for the Bucs. Barber has been unspectacular but consistently reliable for them. Their third string back is someone they really like and is a special teams captain for them. Don’t see a RB appealing to them in a trade.
https://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41082857-4
Per ESPN’s Jenna Laine:
“Rumors continue to swirl around OJ Howard as a trade candidate. Two weeks ago I was told he wasn’t available. I’m now told that the only way the Bucs consider trading him right now is for a substantial offer. Multiple teams have inquired.”
Sounds to me like there’s some intent to deal him and Tampa Bay are going to spend the next day haggling. Let’s see what happens.
Can they trade and withhold when he officially reports? Can’t see TB trading to Seattle the same week they play each other.
Bruce is not being very diplomatic and seems to be spiraling in the wrong direction. Love it!
Depends on the offer.
If TB have decided they need ammunition to trade up for a QB this off-season, they’re not going to bin that possibility off for the sake of this Sunday’s game.
In theory, if you are going to lose to anyone, you’d want to lose to the team you just got the draft pick from.
That seems counter intuitive to me. I’d think you’d want the team you just obtained the pick from to lose as many games as possible to boost the pick you just got, starting with the next game when you play them.
I have no answer for “what was I thinking”. You are absolutely correct.
Ian Rap reporting Redskins are now open to trading Trent Williams. Smoke building. Browns a likely suitor.
Am I the only one that hasn’t been impressed by Herbert? Strong arm, decent athleticism, and a big frame. But he gets rattled SO easily, and I just don’t see a “franchise QB” when I watch him.
He’s not wowed anyone. The scheme holds him back. But he hasn’t made a statement about being the top QB this year.
Joe Burrow has.
Agreed about the scheme.
Would it be blasphemy to say that Eason looks more the part of an NFL QB than Herbert? He has obvious weaknesses as well (scrambling backwards, touch still needs work, etc.), but he routinely makes throws every game that makes you go, “Wow, that’s an NFL arm.”
Eason has the physical tools but can’t play off-script.
Agreed. Another year of college ball would benefit him greatly.
I’ve watched every game of his from freshman year on. I don’t think you’re wrong, sadly. He doesn’t have that ‘it factor’ when you watch him either. He can make some really great throws and scouts are going to love his measurable’s. He reminds me of a Trubisky type, in that he doesn’t command the locker room or huddle (if UO huddled). I think he looked every bit as good as a Sophomore as he does as a Senior, and it pains me to say it.
Exactly. I don’t think he’s bad whatsoever, but I was way more impressed by Mariota, and we all know how Mariota has panned out.
Some team is going to overdraft Herbert for his frame and arm strength before regretting it in 2-3 years. I just don’t see anything more than an average NFL QB at best.
Mariota is a fourth year starter playing most of 2018 with some kind of injury.
Nerve issues in his throwing hand, neck stinger two time. He sustained a cracked vertebra. His plantar fascia had a significant tear during the season, with a full tear later on. Plus a strained oblique, a broken rib and a sprained AC shoulder joint.
He still only missed three games, and managed to be 17th QB in PFFs QB ranking. He’s possibly done, but it’s important to know why.
I don’t get it with him…his own team basically doesn’t rely on him. No idea how any NFL GM would put their job on the line for him. He is the Nilla Wafer of QBs.
He misses throws like nothing I’ve ever seen. For every great throw, he has 3-4 head scratchers. Not impressed at all with him.
And he plays in a gimmicky/easy system.
Yeah, he just looks…average. Like not great, but not downright terrible. Flashes of brilliance followed by extended periods of “WTF was that throw.”
He can definitely play in the league, but I just don’t see the franchise QB/savior that others are touting him to be.
I agree on some head-scratching throws, but the Ducks don’t run a gimmick/easy system anymore. Watch a Duck game and show me some flash of gimmick. As a fan, I’d love to see it, but those days disappeared with the Chip Kelly era.
Honestly the system doesn’t do him any favors. If he played at WSU or USC I think his numbers would be a lot better. Apart from Utah, Oregon runs as much as anyone in the league.
Ditto
I didn’t know who Burrow was before this year. LOL Count me impressed now, however. He strikes me as a real leader, too. Of course, there’s no substitute for talent, but real tangible leadership can’t be overstated when it comes to being a top flight NFL QB. There’s just do much pressure at the position in the NFL, you’ve just got to have tremendous self belief.
I’m really getting into Burrow this year as well, I’m always sceptical over 1 year wonders and you have to wonder why he couldn’t win the job in Ohio and what’s changed to help his performances improve so dramatically this year, but man he’s been so much fun this year. He’s doing everything you want from a Franchise QB to run an offence efficiently, and when his team needs it, he’s been putting them on his back.
If he can guide his team to a win over Alabama he’ll probably alleviate all those doubts I have.
The thing I love about PC/JS is that they’re always “working it”. They may not come up with a deal in the next 24 hours or so, but you know they are looking at every conceivable way to improve the team now, being as creative as possible about it. That’s why it’s hard for me to get down on them much at all.
It’s hard to see us making a SB run this year no matter what we do in the next 24 hours. We just lost our most important piece on the O-line(In my opinion) and we can’t get to the QB to save our life. We lost our 2nd best pass catcher(Dissley) and…….well I’m done.
We were probably never making the super bowl this year anyway. But we can give the one man who gives us a chance the best chance to do it.
And OJ Howard has team control for 2 more years so it wouldn’t be a purely win now move.
Penny looked like the more explosive r.b yesterday. When teams load the box ala saints…Ravens…and the falcons in the second half, Penny can counter that with his cut backs….Carson not so much. This whole trade Penny for a third and replace him with Mike Davis is a non-starter for the same reason that Davis is not quick enough to replace Penny. Unless we want to see another one and done wild card like the Dallas game last year…we better hold onto and play Penny.
Explosive = power. Penny getting to the outside is about speed/quicks.
I hardly think swapping Penny for Davis would be the difference between playoff success and failure. If you want quicks, go with Prosise.
Penny is an E-W runner, with a good burst of speed off the cut. But he’s not explosive. Carson is explosive. He blasts through would be tacklers.
FWIW, I don’t think they’ll trade Penny until the offseason. I think they’ll continue to give him opportunities like they did vs ATL, in part to win games, and in part to boost his trade value. But I just don’t see them going the rest of this season relying on only Carson and Prosise.
Depends on what they’re offered.
Purely hypothetical, but would you rather trade Penny to DET for Slay + Day 3 pick, or to TBB along with a R5 for Howard?
Can’t we do both…? 😁
I’d go for Howard, personally. Younger, cheaper, more of a long-term addition. And, as we’ve been saying for a while now, there looks to be nobody in the upcoming draft even remotely close to his level. We can find a CB elsewhere, or just continue to develop Flowers.
Can you imagine OJ Howard, Dissly, Lockett, and Metcalf running routes for Wilson for the next few years? I can. I’d give Tampa Bay the 1st rounder if that’s what is required to get him. If they’d take penny and a lesser round then I would do that. Though I do like Penny, and he is damn fine insurance behind Carson should he ever get dinged up.
I’d rather have Howard
Penny needs to be in a Shannahan zone scheme where he can pick his holes and gather speed.
Penny is still getting comfortable with the speed and skill of the pros. I saw a nice jump cut in the hole showing he is improving at the line. He still hasn’t learned how to quickly set up a downfield tackler rather than the slow stutter that got him gang tackled he now lowers his head and takes the yards but he will get that comfort given time. People are to quick to quit on him but he is a good back that was used to having time to set up defenders in college and is learning how to be a pro back. Kinda like DL learning they can’t waste time with complicated pass rushing moves going from college to the pros. Lots of talent, 2 more years at a cheap price and Prosise is expensive for someone next year.
I was just watching NFL Live and they were talking about KC needing an upgrade at linebacker and that Cam Erving might be available.
What are your thoughts about KJ Wright to the Chiefs for Cam Erving? Would really help our O-line (is a center that can play all over!) and I think Barton can play equal to if not better than KJ would be by the end of the season.
I’m also hoping we can trade for a different maker on defense and at TE. I would’ve thought it wouldn’t happened by now!
Thoughts?
Go Hawks!
Also, I heard Josh Gordon might be available in a couple weeks because the Patriots will have to release him since they put him on IR.
Do you think he would be a good addition as a difference maker on offense in the playoffs?
I prefer others more, but he wouldn’t cost us a pick!
Go Hawks!!
They’re not going to trade KJ
If SEA can finish 10-6 it’ll be quite an accomplishment
Maybe a little OT, but is Jadeveon Clowney likely to be a Seahawk next year?
.
It’s hard for me to envision them getting rid of our best DLman when our DL is in need of improvement. I suppose it’s possible he could price himself out of consideration, but that’s about it from my perspective.
I think absolutely you build the DL around him (and maybe Reed) unless someone else surprisingly becomes available.
USA-Dutch dual-national Sergiño Dest has chosen to represent USA over the Netherlands. The young full ask has been a regular in Eredivisie and UCL for Ajax at FB and we desperately needed him to choose us.
Sweet!
Yeah, we need all the help we can get on USMNT.
He’s now my son and I will protect him w my life
Hahahaha!
Go get ’em, John!
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/28/nfl-trade-deadline-2019-news-rumors-halapoulivaati-vaitai-trent-williams
Trent Williams also has now been made available:
Whew, good news on Flowers:
Yes that’s great news. Neck stingers can end seasons and careers.
And I totally agree with you about trading Penny for Howard instead of Slay. TE is absolutely a more immediate need than CB.
How about this for some serious rosterbation: trade a R1 (+ ?) to WAS for Trent Williams, then trade Duane Brown to TBB for Howard.
OL is definitely a bigger need for TB than RB, so it makes sense in that regard.
But I think a lot of Seattle players (including Clowney, whom we will likely be looking to re-sign soon) would be quite upset if we traded Brown. He’s a huge leader in the locker room.
(I know it’s just meant to be a rosterbation scenario, as is the following.)
How about something like: we trade Penny for Slay straight up (R3 value on both) and re-acquire Mike Davis for peanuts, as Rob has suggested.
Trade R1 to WAS for Trent Williams and a R5. (since it seems they haven’t been able to get the R1 they are seeking just yet, they might send a day 3 pick back in return to make it happen).
Then we trade a R3, Ifedi, and Jaron Brown to TB for Howard.
Hope he’s bluffing… 😢
I don’t get the impression he is kidding. Teams know the Hawks are TE poor, so the Bucs are going to hold out for a top shelf offer or just move on. Same goes for other teams and players, where the current team often seems to value the players higher than anyone else.
And high draft picks are NFL gold, even if they don’t turn into all-pro players because they are cost controlled for 4-5 years.
Could be wrong, but think it will be an anti-climatic trade deadline.
Trade deadline is a seller’s market, nothing new.
We have picks, I think this has more to do with JS not liking the terms teams are giving. JS will likely make the right decision. Trust in PCJS.
Pete Carroll: (on the pass rush) Biggest area of need for improvement
Seems bad.
Yannick Ngakoue is seeming pretty nice right now
Imagine when he actually gets some help across from him…
Clowney is what we all thought he was. Like you said he needs a legit compliment. A Cliff Avril.
I hope we resign Clowney and Reed and draft a LEO while getting a 3rd or 4th for Ansah.
Personally I was expecting a whole lot more from Clowney. Not sure if we should resign Reed at this moment. And getting a 3rd or 4th for Ansah is a pipe dream at this point.
I know it’s early, but is Collier going to be just another “guy”? Is Greene going to be just another “guy”? I’ve got that feeling now. And I sure hope we haven’t seen “peak Reed” already. Ansah is gone almost for sure after this season. DL is looking like top priority now in the next off-season.
If we have seen peak Reed that’s not so bad, it’s getting him to repeat that.
We’ll see if the desire to be the best he can be is still there.
People need to give Collier an actual chance before writing him off.
I understand with Baldwin retiring the ‘Hawks needed to find receivers. They picked up three last draft. It looks like they hit on Metcalf, but so far haven’t got much from Jennings and Ursua. With what appears to be a great draft for receivers, I wonder if the team will look for the latter two’s replacements. Plus Jarron Brown’s contract expires this year, as does David Moore’s.
From Jason La Canfora’s Twiiter…
“A few hunches on where some of the most-coveted trade options end up – AJ Green/Saints (if CIN ownership accepts reality and relents on trade talks) , Trent Williams/Browns, OJ Howard/Pats, Chris Harris/Eagles, Derek Wolfe/Colts, Des Trufant/Chiefs, Robby Anderson/Jags “
Disappointing no Seahawk connections there, but not entirely surprising. A.J. Green to the Saints is a rumor I hadn’t heard yet. That would be a big move for them though, to get another top WR opposite Thomas.
So nothing for us huh?
Makes sense to me. We have played above our talent level already this season and it will show later on.
Maybe we should simply forget giving up draft stock for vets and build through the draft the next few years and hope we hit on a 4-5 studs. What else can we logically do? Russ has a good 7-8 years if not more of elite play and I think maybe we should plan for the long haul.
Maybe they could actually help the QB by helping him continue to carry this team?
Here’s to hoping JS has another slick trade up his sleeve. The bad teams aren’t opening up much, Hawks seem to only win their trades lately- might be done and not willing to chase bidding wars at the deadline.
Re: previuos discussions of a Penny trade-I wouldnt have a clue as to what they could bring to the table, but won’t the Steeles be RB-hungry with James Connor going down against the Fins?
As Rob has outlined in depth OJ Howard is the one trade target that makes so much sense. He is young ultra talented, under team control for 2 years and in a position of need for the Hawks after the Dissly injury.
Looking at this draft at least early there seems to be 6 truly top end players (Young, Odukah, Delpit, Jeudy, Thomas, Simmons) and then another tier of about 10 guys like Brown, Kinlaw, Diggs and some of the receivers. After that much like last year from say picks 18-50 there really does not seem to be a huge gap.
That being said if the Hawks were to trade a 1st for Howard and say a 3rd I think I would be perfectly fine with that. The idea of teaming Howard and Dissly together for the next 2-3 years at a minimum at TE would be worth it.
Also unless they can get at least a 3rd I would not even consider moving Penny. I think he has a ton of talent and has never really had a game were he has been the focus of the offense yet. I know we have Carson who is an absolute stud but if you trade Penny then you are a Chris Carson injury away from having little to nothing left in the run game which this team considers vital
If the Hawks traded for Howard and went into next years draft with (2) 2nd round picks and (2) 3rd round pics i think they are a better team for the next 3 years than keeping that pick at the late middle to end of Rd #1 and taking a guy like Collier or Penny who is a going to take a year or two to develop anyways.
Sounds like the Seahawks don’t like the TE market and are simply going to bring Ed Dickson back this week, probably ahead of schedule. I don’t blame them if the price for Howard is unrealistic.
Would make sense but are they willing to trade a good pick having already used their 2020 R1?
Darius Slay isn’t an option. Sounds like Detroit is asking for Jalen Ramsey style comp: https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1189152929846038532
Yup, just saw that. Looks like it might be a rather uneventful Seahawks trade deadline after all, like Pete suggested.
I’ll still keep frantically spamming F5 anyway all the way down to the wire.
Penny is the one to watch. Lot of teams need a RB, he’s the one linked in the NFL media. Drake going to Arizona left a lot of other teams needing a RB still.
@ trevor
“I think he has a ton of talent and has never really had a game were he has been the focus of the offense yet. I know we have Carson who is an absolute stud but if you trade Penny then you are a Chris Carson injury away from having little to nothing left in the run game which this team considers vital ”
Well this is the biggest problem…yes he didn’t have the game where he was the focus, but obviously if Carson stay healthy than Penny won’t have that type of game soon…so for me 3rd round pick>>>>>>back up RB…
And we are RW injury away of being top 5 pick team…for me its wrong way to think…and Carson proved in last 20 games that he can stay healthy with a lot of work…
Bit of a let down for me that we really haven’t made any significant moves before the deadline. I guess I was kind of expecting more but it’s probably for the best anyway. Hopefully we have a killer draft.
Yeah, I feel you. But no sense in overpaying for anyone at this point. We will be glad to have the extra picks when draft season rolls around again.
I’ve said this several other times…but I’m convinced that Seahawks need to do what it takes to get OJ Howard – it makes too much sense for this team. I’m offering TB a 1st with no hesitation and I’d be willing to throw in Penny as well (not even sure that makes sense for TB).
This team is going to win through it’s offense. And right now, there is a black hole at TE that could be filled with a bonafide talent that fits the team really well. I just don’t know what impact player you are going to get in the 20s of the 2020 draft that can remotely have the impact that OJ Howard can.
This, IMO, is a very smart, aggressive move that isn’t about today, but the next several years.
This is precisely the problem: in the 20’s there will likely be some really dynamic WRs on the board that could add a huge spark and speed to our offense. Ruggs, Hamler, etc.
I like OJ as much as the next guy and have yet to find any TEs in this next draft who come anywhere remotely close to him, but a R1 and Penny for him is too rich. Especially because there’s a decent shot we actually miss the playoffs this season and end up with a pick in the late teens, where a real stud DL/OL could fall through the cracks to us. Or we lose the chance to trade down a bit, add another R3 pick, and still get one of the WRs.
I think JS/PC are playing it right: just sit back and let the deals come to you if they are really worth it.
Penny (or Ifedi, since I think they need OL more than RB) and one of our R2 picks, then I would pull the trigger.
Agree.
We might miss the playoffs, this year. We also might lose a number of UFAs. IMO, if they lose Ifedi, Clowney, Reed, Fant, Kendricks AND move on from Wright, Britt (/ducks), we’ll need all our picks + cash to fill the void. Right now, we have no idea what’s going to happen.
RW needs more weapons, but the team needs a better OL, edge/speed, ball hawks. Without addressing those, Howard would make as much of a difference as JFG.
With cap room and picks, wise to wait, be flexible, let free agency and the draft come to them.
If anything, I’d be selling.
Howard helps you with both the run and pass game. Again, I’m curious why people would be so hesitant on spending a 1st rounder on a young player that can impact the game in many ways on a team that prides itself on balance.
Tampa Bay might want more than a first.
Absolutely. I’m simply debating the merits of a hypothetical where a late R1 lands him. I think people are treating Howard like Jimmy Graham or a short term rental are missing the point. That’s all.
To be clear: Only comparing Graham and Howard to illustrate that adding talent w/o addressing major issues (OL, pass rush) negates their contributions.
It could be argued that the Graham trade made more sense than a potential Howard trade. His resume included production, not just potential.
I think he’s worth a late first on the right team, say the Patriots. He would almost guarantee them another Super Bowl victory. He makes the Seahawks’ offense better, but he doesn’t get them a deep playoff run, this year. Trading for him only makes addressing the OL, DL, secondary more difficult. Without picks, you have to pass on Burns/Sweat/etc. and patch with Ansah. Vicious circle.
I would hate to trade for Howard, then watch as Raekwon Davis, Javon Kinlaw, Isaiah Wilson, DeVonta Smith, etc. be there.
Great player, not opposed to trading for him at the right price. However, I believe you build through draft, supplement through trade/free agency. IMO, we have to much building to do.
Totally agree you build through the draft. This team’s recent R1 history is not good. I view Howard going for a 1 as a draft pick due to his talent, control, and youth. We just drafted a 24 year old limited pass rush DE in R1. Howard isn’t 25 yet and has a significantly higher ceiling.
The Seahawks have proven to be great in the mid-rounds – stick with that and find a better way to use your R1 capital. That’s my key point in all of this.
I disagree – it sounds like you’re managing this team from your heels rather than your toes.
JSPC will continue to be aggressive (within reason). They wouldn’t even call it a “rebuild.” It might not be pretty, but they’re definitely not considering missing the playoffs.
All fair points, however, I’d rebut that adding Howard eliminates a major need heading into next draft – allowing you to be a bit more aggressive with a trade up in R2 for that WR, which I really think is the money round for WR. Spend money on pass rush and with your top 3 picks find a OT, WR, and LB. Dissly showed what a difference maker at TE can do – and at this point, we cannot rely on Dissly, long term. It’s sad, but it’s just reality at this point, which is why I’m a fan of aggressively pursuing Howard.
Penny, IMO, is a throw in at this point. His value lies in his club control – that’s it. I think he’s a nice player, but at this point we have to get over the fact that this team threw away a R1 pick on him and try to get value for him. We are NEVER getting that R1 value out of him – it is what it is and if trading Penny allows us to recoup capital in some sense – then they need to do it. This is no different than making a bad investment financially and saying, “I’m accepting my losses, but am going to get at least something in return rather than be stubborn.”
You are certainly correct in the risk of missing the playoffs and picking in the late teens – the only rebuttal I have against that is I can’t see that pick being any higher than 18, barring something catastrophic happening. I highly, highly doubt the Seahawks would ever draft a WR in R1 (that high) – meaning we would more than likely be looking at OL/DL – of which I can confidently say I have little faith in this team finding a difference maker, at that point. The last 2 trench players they drafted in R1 was a plodding RT who can’t pass block and a plodding DE that is limited in pass rush. I’m fine missing out on that because those guys aren’t the types that make or break you chances at a Super Bowl. You need difference makers which is what I think Howard can be in this system.
I will also concede to your point about losing R1 eliminates the trade down scenario. My only rebuttal to that is at some point – you have enough mid round picks. We had that a few years back and really came up empty handed minus Shaq Griffin – everybody else was JAG (at best). Reality is you find better players closer to the top of the draft.
Good discussion. Totally respect where you are coming from and can’t really “disagree” with any of it. It’s all preference at this point.
Nice post.
There’s no such thing as a sure thing in the draft. Picking at 25 or 16 is still a crapshoot. Look back at the 2016 draft, where those guys are in their 3rd year now and should be making a difference. From picks 8-32 there is one player (Keanu Neil) with a Pro Bowl.
In the back half of the 2015 draft there are 2 guys (Marcus Peters, Byron Jones) to make a pro bowl. Meanwhile, there are dozens of JAG guys: Agholor, Cedric Ogbuehi, Shane Rae, Breshad Perriman, Phillip Dorsett, Stehphone Anthony, Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell… and a bunch more, that I don’t even know by name.
1st rounders are better odds, but they’re no sure thing.
Yeah, thanks for the detailed discussion, man. That’s what we come here for!
I’ll also just concede that your points on these scenarios are equally valid.
However, I would like to take the occasion to invite you to take a step back and reconsider one thing:
I don’t think it’s fair (or healthy as a fan) to lose hope in our team’s ability to draft. First you say (paraphrasing) that we shouldn’t value our R1 pick very highly because JS will likely blow it on a sub-par lineman (which BTW also grossly underrates the progress Ifedi has made and writes off Collier after just a few snaps of his rookie season coming off an injury). Then you say we have too many mid-round picks and few of them even pan out anyways.
Yes, it’s true that many guys drafted by Seattle will be JAGs or even busts. We all know we can’t expect every draft pick to be a pro bowler. But what are we supposed to do at this point? Stop trying because some picks in the past haven’t worked out? Trade away all of our picks or something?
Ok, I’m exaggerating here to help illustrate that IMO that kind of attitude leads nowhere really. We have had success and busts en every round of the draft. What happened the past years doesn’t condition the upcoming draft in any way really if you think about it.
In short, I’m just trying to say: don’t give up hope, my friend! Down that path fandom just becomes bitter and we also overlook all the amazing successes JS/PC have had, regardless of draft round and position. Reality is that it is dang hard to predict future human behavior and performance. All teams miss more than they hit. But if it were easy, it wouldn’t be much fun either. 😀👍
As logical as never drafting a WR in the 4th round.
Neva eva… 😁
A Star Wars summary of Sea Mode:
Seahawks 2020 Draft – “A New Hope”
Seahawks 2013-2017 drafts – “Jar Jar”
I generally agree with your post except the part about Ifedi being plodding. He’s not a pro bowl RT, and may have some deficiencies in his technique, but he’s far from plodding. Athletically, he’s one of the best RTs in the League. I don’t care if people criticize him, but there’s no need to resort to hyperbole.
OJ Howard probably too pricey is my guess.
But how about Chris Herndon? http://www.nfl.com/videos/baldys-breakdowns/0ap3000001035591/Why-Chris-Herndon-is-the-NFL-s-most-underrated-TE-Baldy-s-Breakdowns
I doubt the jets are gonna want to deal one of Darnold’s favorite targets but maybe they are fed up with him with the suspension and hamstring injury.
If not I still really like Dickson if he can still play like he did in the Cheif’s game last year.
DON’T get me started on Chris Herndon now or I’ll dig up links to my 200,000 comments about him a couple years ago… 😉
But on a more serious note, as you mention, I understand the Jets are super high on him. So probably no chance unless we make them an offer they can’t refuse, which would of course be a huge overpay on our part.
They are not 1 TE away from catching up to the 49ers and the Saints. This would be a short sighted move aka Sheldon Richardson.
They spent years fixing the running back depth chart. Penny while not perfect is a great backup WHEN Carson is injured. There is no reason to give 3 yrs of team control on one of the most important positions on the team. Mike Davis is a career backup. They are in trouble if Carson goes down and Penny is traded.
Also, Howard is not a game changer. He hasn’t figured it out yet and may or may not figure it out. He is not Percy Harvin or Jimmy Graham who were probowlers before being acquired. There are plenty of impact players that are drafted in the twentys. In fact, they could have drafted Deandre Hopkins with the pick they traded for Harvin. They got Metcalf with the pick they got after trading down from 1st.
They can’t keep blowing away high draft picks on reclamation projects.
If Howard is available for a 3rd, do it. Otherwise, pack your bags and grab a cheaper option in FA next year. They aren’t going anywhere this year anyway.
Never said we are a TE away. We need difference makers and on this team, a good TE makes a world of difference especially when they can block and contribute in the passing game. This is nothing like Sheldon Richardson, who was a true short term rental. You’d have Howard for this season and next season, with the ability to have the 5th year option.
I’m going to push back on Jimmy Graham and Percy Harvin. You’re not wrong they were uber talented players. You know what they weren’t? Fits for this team and how they want to play. Howard is a great blocker who happens to be a dynamic athlete. Yes, he hasn’t had a monstrous statistical season, but that’s not what we need from our TE. Jimmy Graham put up huge numbers in Seattle and look at the detrimental effect he had on the run game? He was not only a non-factor, but a net negative in the run game. My conviction lies in the fact that Howard is A) uber talented and B) a perfect fit on this team.
Well said. Agree with you and Rob here.
Agree. We need difference makers.
Is OJ Howard a difference maker? Not at Alabama (4 years / 7 TDs) and not in the NFL (crickets), so far. Your trading for potential and athleticism and hype.
Is trading a 1st for OJ Howard the only way to add difference makers to the roster? We drafted Dissly in the 4th and he’s made a significant difference; Carson, UDFA.
Fix the OL, DL, team speed, turnover differential, then trade for Howard. Otherwise, you’re putting a spoiler on a Fiat.
1. It’s not about being a TE away. It’s about supporting your franchise QB and investing in a player for at least three seasons if not beyond.
2. It’s not similar to the Richardson trade because Howard is under club control for two more years.
1. Supporting the QB at what value though. I don’t believe Howard is worth R1 or R2 to this or any team. Getting a stud on D with the high pick will help your QB more than a short term TE (until Dissly gets back).
2. The reason I am saying Richardson is because Howard will mostly help this year. Can they not pick up Eifert or Hooper or some TE in FA next year without giving up any picks? Dissly also comes back next year. They will be fine next year, the main advantage of Howard is this year. And a high round pick for half a season is too much.
1. What stud DL is going to be available in the late first round?
2. Why would Howard be used mostly this year? They’d have club control until the end of 2021. Dissly has had two major injuries in just over a year. They’re going to be signing or drafting a TE whatever happens in the off season. Richardson was a rental like Clowney. Howard is much more of an investment.
I don’t understand the logic of simultaneously arguing SEA have whiffed on their R1 picks, but they definitely shouldn’t trade their next R1 for Howard because it’s more valuable to them to draft a stud with that R1 pick.
If you don’t think they draft R1 well, how can you also believe that the best way to improve the team is to draft in R1 instead of trade for a clear and obvious talent at a position of key need?
As if pointing out that they have whiffed a ton in the draft means we should just give up on the picks and trade for rentals. That’s a wrong conclusion. One conclusion could be they need to improve their scouting/scheming so that the players they get are successful. A second conclusion could be that the draft is a random and hence we should maximize the number of shots we can take. Pretty sure giving up our picks to isn’t a solution to whiffing.
And even though they haven’t gotten difference makers, I would happy take 4-5 years of Ifedi, Irvin or Penny over 2 yrs of Howard.
I just want to comment how this spirited discussion/disagreement is what makes this site the best. I think everyone is making valid points with some good thought behind it, even if there isn’t agreement.
Great job fostering this community Rob. Testament to you and what you encourage.
Thank you 👍🏻
Truth.
FWIW. I can agree with you/Rob while simultaneously disagreeing. I see the merits and reasoning of both positions.
Life is more water than stone.
Regardless of how I feel on this subject of trading a R1 pick for Howard (or a different player/position of need), I applaud you all for having a spirited by very respectful discussion about it. As Matt said, this type of interaction does make the SDB more enjoyable than others!
Keep it up, fun to read!
Thoughts on our needs… and killing time.
1. Keep Penny
2. Hooper/Howard (R1)
3. Beasley (R6)
Get some help on the D-line.
The Bengals and Phins play each other week 14?!? They better flex that game to Sunday night.
Wow, now the Jets want to dump Bell…!?
Wasn’t on my mind at all, but for the right price and maybe with a little contract restructure to move some hit up to this year…
Reports are that Indy was in on him back in FA.
GM lost a staring contest with Adam Gase.
GM didn’t sign Bell, that was the last GM. The current GM is Gase’s guy.
Good luck dealing that contract.
Two and half hours to go till the end of the trade deadline. It seems that the Hawks will do nothing significant unless trade prices for players they might want collapse at the very end here. In other words, they probably have offers out there (the highest they will go) for a player or two, but are probably not going to budge, but rather wait and see if a deal falls into their laps.
My best guess.
The one deal I’d like to see happen is for Vic Beasley…I think he could provide a boost where they need it most. Not sure why he has regressed, but he could be better with our group of guys. Maybe ATL will pay some of his salary and we could get him cheap?
I think the Hawks are going to stand pat at TE & C with Dickson coming back this week and a C being promoted from the practice squad.
Because he’s always been wildly overrated and not very good?
What if we paired him with Shane Ray? /s
That’s true, but he offers the one thing the Seahawks don’t have – speed off the edge! It’s not even that he has to get sacks, just be able to be a threat fro Clowney and others to get home. Right now other teams are double teaming Clowney every snap because he is the only threat. Ansah could have been the other piece, but he can’t stay healthy. Beasley at least offers a threat of speed off the edge and forces other teams to respect it…
Who else on the Hawks can provide that now? Green? Kendricks? Collier? None of them have shown it yet…so what about Griffin? Why haven’t we seen him at least get a shot at playing EDGE?
Beasley is a guy that doesn’t love football. Quinn vouched for him so the Falcons picked up his 5th year option. He promptly didn’t attend any off season camps. It doesn’t matter if he’s fast, he can’t play. He sucks. There’s a reason nobody would even give up a 7th round conditional pick for him.
Good guess IMO!
Sounds like Cowboys about to make a massive move for Jamal Adams.
They’ve masterfully played the trade market the last two years. Adams would be a tremendous capture whatever the cost.
Damn. That’s a great get for them.
He might be the missing piece that can make that defense elite.
Quinn has paid off big time.
He has.
Taking a quick glance at that depth chart and they appear to only be missing a 1-tech/nose and maybe a corner if they can’t keep Byron Jones.
Agreed
The Jets just continue to put on a master clinic on how to build a team
2010- Kyle Wilson
2011- Mo Wilkerson
2012- Quinton Coples
2013- Sheldon Richardson & Dee Millner
2014- Calvin Pryor
2015- Leonard Williams
2016- Darron Lee
2017- Jamal Adams
From the NFL media guys:
So not just the Cowboys involved but will cost more than a R1, R5 & R6.
Rapoport says OJ Howard not available for trade.
Aqib Talib traded to Miami. Addition by subtraction for the Rams. Now that $ can go towards Ramsey.
What in the world is Miami doing? They need draft picks for their rebuild not aging, oft injured players. Also hate seeing them help the Rams free up cap space. Oh well!!
The Dolphins get the 5th round pick as well as Talib, they didnt trade it away. They’re basically eating the cap hit for the rams for a player who’ll remain on IR the whole year. Its similar to what the browns did with Osweiler.
Talib’a contract is up this year. They were super tight against the cap this freed up $4 mil to allow them to make moves if they need to replace an injured guy
There’s that scene in Risky Business where the Princeton evaluator informs the Tom Cruise character that Princeton will be a no-go for him during his money-making party. To which he responds with a smile…looks like U of I (University of Illinois).
That’s kind of my feelings about a major TE move here…”looks like Ed Dickson”.
On a side note, the NFL loves money and eyeballs and interest. They are probably pleasantly surprised at how this trade deadline buzz has increased over the years, and will probably do all they can make it an even bigger thing in the future.
I’m sure you’re right, they love the attention the trade deadline is getting now as opposed to the past. Too bad they can’t figure out how to encourage more actual trades though, similar to MLB. It’s exciting right up until the time nothing happens…
The NFL should move the deadline to after weeek 10. Records would be more defined and thus more movement. All other sports leagues deadlines are roughly 2/3 of the way thru the season.
They’re trying, but the NBA trade deadline it is not.
The Deadline is here…
Looks like all smoke, no fire…
“This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper”
TS Eliot
There were a few situations and teams that *seemed* like they could have gotten some decent value as sellers. They just didn’t sell.
I’ll be very happy come April that we have a full quiver of picks. Now we can just kick back and enjoy the rest of the ride this season. At no point did I feel this was a championship roster. We do need to buy, trade or draft our way to an effective pass rush though. Don’t recall the last team to win a SB without some semblance of one.
I would be bummed to have missed an opportunity like that to boost my stock after all that hype if I was OJH. Wonder what other players are crying themselves to sleep tonight?
Yeah OJ Howard needs to get out of Tampa soon, that organization is not on good ground with the reality that Famous Jameis isn’t cutting it. In the Seahawks case there was no way the Bucs would trade away OJ Howard because Mr. Kangle Bruce Arians hates our guts.
Trent Williams reported to the Redskins.
Kool…Glad to see them do nothing. I for 1 did not wan’t to see them give up any picks and especially Penny. I thought the Penny talk was very short-sided. IMO
This draft is looking to be a lot better than most think. Especially @ positions of need for the Hawks.
So Hawks didn’t get better, but neither did anyone else in the NFC. Some scheming improvements (maybe more packages with Diggs, Blair, and McDougall) and getting Dickson back could be enough to push for those 4-5 more wins.
On another note, I’m still perplexed by the Home Field vs Road performance split. Is the turf an issue?
Totally agree about Penny. He’s a lot more valuable to the team than a 2020 R3 pick. I think he’s an excellent change of pace back to pair with Carson. Defenders almost have to over pursue Carson because he’s so quick to the hole/LOS and runs downhill. Setting up a defense to try to stop that kind of runner sets them up to be exploited by a runner like Penny, who is more patient and has good burst off his cuts. I hope they use them in tandem more like they did vs ATL. I thought that was highly effective.
I am pretty disappointed they couldn’t get Howard. Of all the possible mid-season additions, he made the most sense to me, not just for this season, but going forward. I guess I’m glad they didn’t overspend for him, but I still think he’d have been a good addition.
From the sounds of it, it seems TB simply didn’t even make him available. Oh well. Maybe around draft time they will value picks a bit more if they see the chance to trade into position to secure a QB.
I understand why they wouldn’t want to trade him. What I don’t understand is why they don’t use him. Maybe Bruce is on his way out along with Winston and Licht wants to keep Howard for the new QB 🤷🏻♂️
Count me in as one of the people happy to see no moves. Everybody on the block was either too expensive and/or not a great fit. Glad to keep Penny.
Extremely glad we didn’t soend our 1st rounder on OJ Howard. Now we can fill real needs. Howard was a luxury get. We NEED DL.
I’m also glad they didn’t overspend, but I disagree that OJ would have been a luxury. We are down a TE and Russ needs weapons. He’s a perfect fit for our scheme and being under club control for the next 3 seasons, he could have been a building block for the future.
And where are we going to find these DL you speak of?
“And where are we going to find these DL you speak of?”
Well… Not to be Capt Obvious here but the draft would be one place to look 😉
Hoping to re-sign Clowney & Reed, then buy someone who proves effective in FA. Then in accordance with Rob’s big board draft Weaver & V’s boy Gallimore. All that while hoping for significant development from the dudes that we have.
That’d be a start anyway.
OJ has had 1 good year. Everyone wants to talk about that year, what is he doing this year? Nothing. A 1st rounder for a player who’s performed to their draft status 1/3 years? No way. 0% chance that trade ever happened.
Trading for him after Dissly’s injury would be a panic move and totally irrational.
OJ would be a win now move because we get Dissly back at some point next season, and we can live with our other TEs, or draft one this year too. We can’t go another year with the DL we have now, especially with all the upcoming free agents on our DL. We HAVE to pick DL early, plain and simple. We HAVE to get pressure. None of our needs matter more than that.
I don’t understand why anyone sees a Howard trade as a panic move. They’re going to need to acquire a TE this off season. Adding one with great club control and massive athletic potential doesn’t feel panicky to me.
I think much of this comes down to tb being a bad organization with a bad general manager. I know we like to call Ariens a clown and make fun of him, and well he kind of is – even though I sort of like him. Anyone who sends his coaches home early so they can be with their families OK in my book.
But Licht, really seems like a bad GM who has somehow managed to keep his job for quite some time. I keep remembering him on hard knocks not being very impressive, but it all culminated when they cut the Boise State running back McNichols and he kept talking about how much they want to have him back on the practice squad. Then they find out that he was going to San Francisco to be on their practice squad and Licht immediately is like I didn’t want him anyway. Good stuff.
I think the bottom line is, OJ Howard was meant to be a generational tight end. Several different coaching staff said failed to unlock his potential in TB. I think he scared to death of him going to another organization shining and making him look bad. Especially when you’re talking about sitting himself like so Seattle or New England. He doesn’t want to see what a quality organization with his talent.
Because we’re talking about just throwing one of our top 3 picks at TE when we have bigger needs.
PC wants a defense and running game. He has the running game and Russell Wilson. He will want to improve the defense this offseason.
Why are you phrasing it that way? They wouldn’t be ‘throwing’ a pick. They’d be making an investment for the future in a player who may well be better than any of the available options.
And TE is a significant need. The only contracted TE they have for next season is Will Dissly, who has suffered two of the most serious injuries you can suffer in just over a year. They will be adding a TE, possibly with a high draft pick, in the off season.
Totally agree. Let’s see what Ed Dickson can do.
Jamal Adams is mad he got shopped? Didnt he want a trade?
Apparently not… 🤔🤷♂️
Exactly. There’s a difference between actively “shopping” a player and simply taking calls. The media is the one that blew this thing out of proportion.
Reportedly the Jets wanted a R1 and two R2s, fwiw.
Quoting a price in return is shopping..
I would’ve seriously considered paying that.
Me too, considering what the Rams paid for Ramsey. I’d argue Adams makes a bigger impact in SEA’s defense than Ramsey would’ve.
Not comparing the players, but rather the relative importance of their respective positions to SEA (based on scheme and current personnel).
Ramsey cost LAR their 2020 R1 + 2021 R1 + 2021 R4.
I’d have been ok if SEA gave their 2020 R1 + 2020 R2 + 2021 R2 for Adams.
I talked a lot about Howard being the one player they could add mid season who might have a significant impact because the other big need — speed rusher — there weren’t any viable trade options. Wasn’t thinking about Adams. He could’ve been a difference maker. And not just for the rest of this season. He’s the kind of player you can design an entire defensive scheme around, like ET3. Again, not comparing the players but rather their impact on a defense.
It would’ve taken the 2020 R1. Probably also a 2020 R2 and a 2021 R2. That would’ve been fair IMO. And they still would’ve had a R2 pick.
He’ll holdout next year and Hawks can pick him up for an R1 and R4.
Just suppose that third team was Seattle! (which probably means the Jets weren’t really that open to moving him either)
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/30/trade-deadline-takeaways
Looks like College Athletes will be getting paid soon. I’m actually not against the players benefiting, but I do think this is bad for most colleges. Schools with the deepest pockets will hoard all the talent even more so than now.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ncaa-clears-way-to-allow-athletes-to-be-compensated-11572372807?mod=hp_lead_pos5
Is there no possible way this could be done and still be fair? Would it be impossible for the NCAA to adopt the NFL model?
Just saw it here – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtDM4koP0I
Great news that athletes are going to be paid for their names and likenesses, from companies I believe rather than from the universities. This movement was put more into the mainstream by UCLA basketball player Ed O’Bannon 25 years ago when his likeness was used in a videogame. Immediately Rep. Senator Burr is tweeting that he wants to tax students who make money with their scholarships as income, and will be working to pass legislation to that effect. Student athletes regularly have to skip meals because their scholarship doesn’t pay for food, and most of their time is spent in class or studying, at practice or games – frequently on the road, so a moderate meals per diem would be helpful as well.
I fear giving CFB players money will end up ruining their careers in the future for some of them. In my experience young men need to earn their way first before they make a living and be mature enough to handle life on their own.
Found out earlier today that it will probably mainly help the big names if they make endorsements or sign certain autographs, and that they can retain agents now. So over 90% still won’t make any extra money for food, etc., and it doesn’t go into effect until 2021.
Our starting 11/12 (nickel) on defense look really good on paper.
Clowney
Reed
Poona
Ansah
Wright
Wagner
Kendricks
Griffin
Flowers
McDougald
Blair
Diggs (I’d like to see him at nickel)
Just need guys like Ansah, Kendricks (all the LB’s really) , McDougald to play like they have in the past. On paper the biggest liability should be Flowers. He falls in a group with Blair and Poona; young guys who have flashed big time and need to take the next step.
What’s the issue? Coaching scheme (Pete/Norton)? Aging personnel (Ziggy, linebackers, McDougald)? Inexperience (Poona, Flowers, Blair) ?
I think this group is going to come together. Lots of talented players and I still have faith in Pete Carroll to put out a good defense. Depth isn’t terrible either except at corner where we are paper thin.
couldn’t agree with you more… just need more speed on the edge.
Well, the Hawks better hope things come together defensively. As everyone knows, the schedule gets more difficult and scoring consistently will be more difficult for the offense. If the defense continues to be so porous, things will go downhill quickly.
The defensive line needs to gel in a hurry. Reed needs to be the dominant interior presence he was last year, and quick! Poona needs to take the next step! Clowney has been good and needs to continue playing well. Ansah really needs to show something, anything or put out to pasture.
The secondary has a real chance to improve with Blair seeing more time, and the integration of Diggs into the lineup. As long as Griffin and Flowers stay healthy the corner spots are in decent shape.
Here’s to some real second half improvement and development for a serious run next year!!
Was Reed a dominant interior force in 2018? Or did he just do well to accumulate 10.5 sacks?
Hmm…quite possibly a bit of both I would say. He wasn’t dominant in the way an Aaron Donald is dominant, but who is really? There has to some amount of dominance to get 10.5 sacks though. You can luck into a few of them, but not that many.
He doesn’t have to be dominant anyway, just an above average DT would be perfect! Clowney needs to be dominant, and Ansah, or others have to pick up their production significantly!
I think Reed produced last year but down-to-down I’m not sure he ever really was dominant. And thus, I think that’s why he’ll end up testing the market.
He’s the real deal and a legit leader. People been listening to him bark on the sidelines since his rookie year. We miss these alpha dogs on the Seahawks and he’s won of the few we have left. 10+ million a year DT and he is worth it. If someone is willing to pay him 15+ million after he racks up some sacks this season I will be sad to see him go.
Did anyone watch the semi finals of the world rugby tournament?
It was highly entertaining between Wales and South Africa this last weekend.
I watched England win
What do you think about the Haka encroachment fine?
I am of two minds on the Haka: 1. its a really cool piece of culture/history and definitely part of who the All Blacks are; but 2. to require the other team to stand there and watch it is asinine.
I think the fine is a total nonsense
I did. That was some compelling sport, seeing the springboks tough it out.
This is probably a big factor, actually. Per Breer:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/30/trade-deadline-takeaways
Quite possibly what happened with OJ. As “All I See is 12s” suggested above, they may have seen winning organizations like SEA and NE heavily interested in OJ and thought, “maybe we should be keeping this guy and figuring out how to actually use him”.
Arians has never really used a TE in his scheme as far as I know in any significant way. Years and years later he now decides to use Howard because other teams are interested is not super plausible in my opinion. Maybe the owner or the GM whoever they are didn’t want to move him for some reason.
I am glad they denied the Pats though.
Or maybe they just value his blocking ability just that much.
2019 Week 8: Seahawks at Falcons | Seahawks All Access
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiTla4CgKwQ&t=12s
Rasheem Green’s Adorable Boxer Puppy ‘George’ | Seahawks Pets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psR3Ts2HYzk
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2860368-2020-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-trade-deadline-predictions.amp.html
BR has us taking Xavier McKinney. Not sure if it’s a realistic pick. Usually when they mock us a DB I tune out but I don’t think anything can be rolled out especially if we see Diggs at nickel in the second half of the season. Don’t know much about McKinney.
I would love a FS and think it makes sense even in the 1st but I seem to remember Rob saying there wasn’t any worthy FS’s in the draft this year that early. Or maybe even in the second round.
Delpit and Simmons will go early… apart from that it looks like a rubbish year at safety.
A small school SLEEPER at safety; seems to be getting some hype and seems to be rising up some charts. He is raw and a little wild but looks pretty fast and explosive, he seems to tackle well, he’s shifty with ball in hand on punt returns. — A big plus is he looks like he is a pretty darn good punt returner and that adds to his value. Due to small school level of competition, I’d guess he won’t get drafted in the first 4 rounds unless he blows up the combine/pro-day/post season all-star games, so a likely round 5/6/7 pick IMO. Might be a good “developmental pick” because he has really good size & speed and his punt returning is a +.
Safety-Kyle Dugger, Lenoir-Rhyne, 6-2/217, Projected 4.47/40 (A Div-II, small school = SLEEPER).
Currently ranked #186-overall @ drafttek.com –
Currently projected Rd-2-3 @ walterfootball.com
Currently #124-overall, just ahead of Ashtyn Davis at #134 @ draftsite.com
Currently #5 Safety @ couchscout.com
—2019 season stats for 1-st 7 games:
19-tkls, 2-INT, 4-PBU + 12-punt returns for 175-yds, 2-TD’s, 14.2-yds per return
Some available tape: (Dugger is #10), maybe it’s the hair but he resembles Richard Sherman a lot to my eye. I’ve never heard of a college called Lenoir-Rhyne, could be in Moscow for all I know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI6tSRLvsHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXBa344G6C8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRb8QFhnjIM
He’s been mentioned before but it’s very hard to believe a guy from Lenoir-Rhyne is the answer. Not impossible but very hard to imagine.
The answer? No, not really. A late round developmental pick that, if drafted, could play ST and kick returns while learning the safety job for his first year or two – isn’t very likely to be “the answer” that the Seahawks need ASAP. I’d see Dugger more in the developmental mode that adds competition to the DB ranks and he’d likely have to earn his stripes on ST and returns initially.
I’m impressed by Dugger’s punt return abilities (see highlight tapes), which potentially could keep Lockett off punt return duties. As a safety I think he shows some very impressive closing speed, seems to diagnose plays well and has a reputation of being a big hitter. The small school competition doesn’t help his draft stock at all, but looking beyond that he has some pretty good skills.
IMO he’s a later round prospect that bears watching throughout the post season process. Athletic #’s from the combine/pro-day, assuming they are good #’s as I’d expect, should help show more of his overall potential. Maybe, due to the recent spike in interest, he’ll be in some post season all-star games as well. Small school guys are few in the NFL, but there are always at least a few that make it.
Opinions please
Since we all agree that DL is the position group of greatest need (with a focus on pass rush), and it’s almost a certainty SEA won’t be able to solve the problem through the draft (either by itself or even at all), they’re going to have to add a veteran if they intend to address the problem.
A couple of veteran DEs we’ve hypothesized to SEA are Everson Griffen and Calais Campbell.
Would you rather sign Griffen in FA, or trade for Campbell? If Campbell, what would you consider a reasonable trade?\\
From strictly a personnel perspective, I’d rather add Campbell. But Griffen would cost less, both in terms of salary and acquisition cost.
Any other veteran pass rushers you’d prefer SEA sign/trade for?
There are some decent options out there- https://overthecap.com/free-agency/
Robert Quinn, Jabaal Sheard, Mario Addison, Bruce Irvin, Arik Armstead, Yannick Ngakoune, Ronald Blair, Shaq Lawson.
Of course, Griffen & Campbell would be great.
Robert Quinn on a 2-year deal similar to Ziggy’s would be nice. He’d provide that speed rush we’ve missed since losing Avril, and would allow us to develop a younger Leo like K’Lavon Chaisson, Curtis Weaver, etc. behind him.
I think we need to see things play out a little more. Both Griffen and Campbell have pretty hefty future cap hits and aren’t youngsters, and Minn & Jacksonville are in cap jail, so there’s a lot to play out between now and 2020 FA. It seems easy to conclude those two might be potential cuts or very cheap cap trades.
And with Griffen, does he want to play somewhere else? His support system seems good in Minnesota and he might need it.
Campbell is terrific, and if the price is affordable, I’d love to see him in Seattle.
That said, I think signing Clowney is the best bet. He has earned his right to explore FA, but he has been as advertised for the Hawks this year.
I haven’t looked the market up and down, but Shaq Lawson might be an interesting pickup. A buy-low youngster with upside.
Clowney’s solo tackles and sacks are far below his normal average over the last 3 years. I do believe that if Reed gets back to normal AND we get another stud on the other end Clowney will be back to what we were hoping he would be. As far as he has played so far are you willing to pay the 20 million per year he probably will be asking for?
You pump a couple picks on the position, re-sign Clowney, and a veteran on a prove it deal.
Tedrick Thompson placed on IR. Huge surprise.
That is a surprise. Does Diggs or Blair take over the position?
My guess is McDougald FS, Blair SS until Diggs can get healthy and up to speed with the system.
Respect to TT for playing through it. Played all 76 snaps vs. ATL.
So thinking about it more, we really were thin on safties. Good job by the Hawks and TT of not revealing this too soon so as not to run up the asking price for Diggs.
So now we have 2 spots open on the roster, 1 for Dickson and the other for an OL to take Britt’s vacated spot.
Player did not report?
Sorry meant to reply to Rob below.
After having a torn labrum myself I and having the actual Seahawks team doctor perform my surgery I would say, he did not play with that injury. It’s impossible. Way too painful to even lift your arm. I’m not buying it.
Pain can be taken away with shots. I had the same issue and competed with it until I couldn’t sleep at night. The pain was more collateral damage on rotator tears from compensating. I tore it again and never repaired it. Can’t do some things but otherwise pain free most of the time.
I would have to disagree. I competed with a torn labrum for a few years before I decided to listen to the docs and get it repaired. Everyone’s different and has different tolerances. And as mentioned, TT probably received some shots to help with the pain. Good on him for playing, and also good on the team for getting him to the IR eventually. From personal experience, going to long with those can cause irreparable collateral damage. It’s unfortunate, but will give us a good look at Blair/diggs/ possibly even Amadi.
Robeetle,
I’ve had a tear in my right labrum for years. Served Active Duty military with it. I lift weights 4-5 times a week and I fire hundreds of rds weekly. There are days it flairs up and I can’t even put a t-shirt on by myself.
I just wonder which draft pick we’re going to lose for Pete Carroll stating he’s played through a labrum injury for a long time and yet he’s never appeared on an injury report.
This. I can’t believe what I am listening. Like, do you know the rules.
Appears overhauling the training room staff still didn’t fix this particular issue. That’s on PC.
Looks like we added DE Dekoda Watson to fill TT’s roster spot. So another move will have to come to bring back Ed Dickson.
Well, at least nobody can say he lacks for self-confidence!
How does he know they don’t take call for Tom & Aaron? Also is he really comparing himself to them? lol
I actually love this! Not saying he’s right for doing so but he doesn’t want to be a Jet, they are sinking ship with terrible ownership. We’ll take him off their hands for them!
I was think about how nice it is not to be a Jets fan this morning after reading the story about the owner saying he hopes his team shows up for the next game. Pretty bad when even the owner doesn’t believe in his own team!
Pulling out the ‘ole AB strategy, eh? 😉
lllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllll
Well he did have a growth removed from his head earlier this year.
When i think little bit better I think Pete lied about T2 injury. If he is good he would play whole season imo. He has never been even limited at practice. How is that possible with torn laburne? If there will be surgery than it will be something minor.
There was word a couple teams were looking at him before the trade deadline. I wonder if he couldn’t get traded because of the shoulder… it is a little weird he is IR’d the day after the trade deadline
Do players get payed differently for claiming an injury or helmet problem than for just sitting out because they want to?
If so they are stealing money from the team.
Phil Haynes or Ethan Pocic?
I’m not certain what your question is, but Pocic is on the IR.
Looks like Chiefs released WR Cody Thompson from their PS yesterday and we signed him to our PS.
IIRC, V12 liked his intensity and production way back when before his injury. “MAC-action”