I’ve often said a win is a win. That was a particularly unsatisfying win and will likely provide more concern than enjoyment for Seahawks fans.
Russell Wilson, Tyler Lockett and Chris Carson are all playing at an exceptionally high level. Shaquille Griffin has taken a big step forward and Jadeveon Clowney is doing his best to provide something — anything — on the defensive line.
The rest?
Today they faced an Atlanta team on its knees. They were 1-6 coming into today and without key players, including quarterback Matt Ryan.
Seattle rolled to a 24-0 lead by half-time and the rout was on. Finish the game. Go back home. No stress, for once.
Assert your will. Dominate. Show some teeth. Set the tone.
The Seahawks lost the second half 20-3. They were less tiger and more kitten. Matt Schaub ended up throwing for 460 yards. Atlanta had thirty first downs.
Where was the resistance? The defense had absolutely no answers. The game just drifted and drifted away. If it wasn’t for an extremely fortunate and bizarre call on a Devonta Freeman fumble forced by Marquise Blair, they might’ve even lost.
The defense is a mess. Sure, Blair threw himself around and had some hits (and also some whiffs). Clowney and Griffin are doing their best. But what do they do well on defense? What’s working? Where’s the pass rush and how do they create pressure? Why is the tackling so bad? What exactly is the plan here? Has the defense had a commanding performance this season? Where’s the speed?
How on earth did they allow Atlanta to claw their way back into this?
We’re half-way through the season now. It’d take a supreme optimist to imagine major improvements at this stage. Seattle’s defense simply isn’t good enough.
Ziggy Ansah looks like a spent force. Players like Rasheem Green just aren’t cutting it. The linebackers aren’t close to living up to expectations. Jarran Reed needs to get back to his best pronto. Now Tre Flowers has a neck injury.
Good luck to Quandre Diggs trying to help turn this unit around.
It feels like they need an off-season this week to completely revolutionise things.
The Seahawks lurch from explosive and exciting on offense to timid and passive as an entire team for long stretches. The great is exhilarating. The bad is bewildering.
The current record of 6-2 looks good. It’s half-way to 12-4. Yet the 2017 Seahawks started 6-3 and ended 9-7. Seattle’s next run of games includes arch-nemesis Bruce Arians (Tampa Bay), unbeaten San Francisco and Philadelphia on the road, Minnesota at home, the Rams and Panthers on the road, then Arizona and the Niners at home to finish.
They can’t expect to play this badly on defense and keep winning through that gauntlet of games.
Wilson magic always gives them a shot. Wouldn’t it be nice to offer him even a little bit of help on the other side of the ball? Imagine what they could be with even an average defense? And with another weapon (they badly miss Will Dissly)?
What do they do? Hope desperately there’s a turn? Keep on the longer term vision? Accept their fate for this season?
Do they need to be aggressive in the next 48 hours and make some moves to avoid wasting this 6-2 start? (I wrote more on the trade deadline earlier today here)
What are the answers?
Because you want to sit here and enjoy 6-2 but it feels like a mirage. And yet they’re 6-2. That’s the frustrating thing. If they were 5-3 or 4-4 it’d be easier to accept. They’re rebuilding. The defense has regressed this year and it needs a change of plan for 2020.
But they’re 6-2. With every win it’s harder to accept the situation. It’s like driving closer and closer to the cliff-edge — knowing you’ll fall off but hoping you won’t. We can all see this problems. We can all anticipate how costly they’ll be down the line.
And we kind of have to just accept it.
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Marquise blair free saftey mcdougald strong diggs slot? Thoughts?
Maybe.
Bring back Rocky Soto
“But what do they do well on defense? What’s working? Where’s the pass rush and how do they create pressure? Why is the tackling so bad? What exactly is the plan here? Has the defense had a commanding performance this season?”
And to add to that – how much of what we’re seeing is coaching/game strategy and how much of it is the individual players not playing up to snuff?
I feel like it’s about 65% coaching / 35% players.
There seems to be too much individual talent on defense to get so thoroughly pushed around like this. The 2nd string QB has enough time to find the 2nd string WR, and when he does he’s WIDE open? Something is really off.
Are you suggesting a new defensive coordinator?
Feels like it’s time for PC to have a heart to heart with Norton like he did with Schottenheimer last year. And if he’s truly the DC and Norton is a figurehead, it’s time for PC to have a heart to heart with himself.
The DL isn’t getting pass rush 1 on 1 aside from Clowney. And there isn’t a big tradeoff in the run game. They’re not getting hands on running backs.
The LBs aren’t waiting in open holes created by the DL. They’re making tackles 5 yards deep instead of 2 yards deep.
DBs seem to have had a fear of getting beat deep drilled into them. Soft on coverage 5yards beyond the LOS and getting eaten alive on 6-8 yard passes. Blair looks like the only one capable of bringing a guy down when he’s the first guy to touch the runner/receiver.
I just struggle to think that all these players have collectively hit a wall (for vets) or are too green (for the youngsters). A couple here and there, sure. But the entire 11?
We are at a point, where you just cannot explain the mess with “too few talent”.
We have 6 or 7 historically workable run defenders, and we are crap vs the run. We have a working secondary, but still no pass rush, besides a veteran DL. And the LBs are playing like Mother Theresa going to the poor.
Ken Norton may be the wrong person to take responsibility, because everybody knows, who is in charge. The “always compete” mantra is a hollow shell, filled with “play the old dawgs”.
This team – make no mistake – is one Russell Wilson away from being a loosing record dumpster fire.
A hollow shell?
Which young players aren’t getting their chance on defense? Cody Barton? The guy getting easily handled on the Freeman play and having to apologise to his team mates after?
I never understand when people call out Carroll for this.
“make no mistake, this is PCs defense!”
If that sounds familiar, it’s one of your gems.
Which old players are playing well? I mean, really well, on a weekly schedule?
Kendricks, who gets his arse handed over due to easy mismatches a couple of times a game?
Wagner, who is basically not recognizable?
Wright, who finally shows his age?
Reed?
McDougald?
Ansah?
Clowney?
This is not a no-name unit, where you could expect being #29 stopping the run and god knows what stopping the pass. Not a single player, who is lifting the game. Clowney gets the pass, because at least you can clearly see he wants it. He came in as a pro bowler, and this he isn’t anymore.
We are at a point, where we have to ask ourselves, if playing rookies making rookie errors and growing in the process is the lesser evil to the current race to the bottom.
Bit of a needless snide remark.
Very few players are playing well. Does that mean you bench everyone for the backups who didn’t win the job in the first place? That’s not ‘always compete’.
So what are you proposing then? Bench Wagner for BBK? Bench Clowney for Rasheem Green? Play Amadi instead of McDougald? Would you then be satisfied that ‘always compete’ is alive and kicking? Come on.
And I’ve already addressed all of this in the article. Shaquille Griffin, for what it’s worth, is playing superbly.
I was critical in my article but come on man, look at what you’re calling for here.
What’s off is that we were (ineffectively) bringing extra pressure from the LBs and that was creating big gaps that Atl took advantage of. Bobby and KJ are a step slower and I saw several muffed tackles by all of them. King is not a 1st string CB and that was obvious. I can’t believe he missed that interception…basic fundamental mistake there.
I was so frustrated with this game. I told myself at half time that don’t get comfortable with this game…next thing you know they score 8 and we have 2 3 and outs…and poof, 3rd quarter is over and they’re driving for more points.
Biggest problem with the defense has to be the pass rush. It just doesn’t exist, if they make a move at the deadline (and it’s a win now move) I would think they would have to address the pass rush somehow.
Possibly — but who?
And Ziggy Ansah has been Eddie Lacy-level as a free agent signing so far.
Ya teams aren’t in the habit of trading good pass rush unless it’s for a kings ransom…agreed regarding Ansah it looks like his tank is about empty
Ouch.
I was a big fan of the Ansah signing but agreed he just looks spent and that is a huge hole in the roster right now.
I think they thought Ansah would be much better and that Collier would at least flash from time to time. Both have been all but invisible
I am really worried about Collier he has shown nothing and athletically does not look like an NFL quality DL so far. It is way to early to judge but he has bust potential written all over him and clearly was a huge reach in Rd #1.
It’s way OTT to say Collier has bust potential or was a huge reach. He wasn’t a huge reach. We know about his positives because we talked about him a ton pre-draft. He went in the range he should’ve gone in.
He was injured throughout camp. Nobody should expect anything from him.
Von Miller possibly
No chance I’m afraid. Denver aren’t trading him and it’d cost multiple high picks if they were even entertaining offers which reportedly they are not.
There is no easy fix at the deadline unfortunately. Is it really poor play or poor scheming?
How do we trade for a player that gets more out of Wagner, Reed, Ansah, Wright, etc. these guys are All Pros. We aren’t going to bench them. They look slow to react and make plays, often stuck in zone mode which gets picked apart. Line is trying to contain which gives enough time to find an open receiver.
Need speed, a lot more speed.
Ansah looks done. Reed will need time. Bobby isn’t playing well and needs to do more but probably isn’t being helped by the poor D-line play.
Clowney led the DL in tackles with 3. Woods had 2. Everyone else had 1 each.
Grady Jarrett had 8. Beasley had 5. Davison 4. Tak had 3.
Unfortunately the dialed up blitz’s gave way to huge screens.. which the hawks Def defends pretty well most of the time.. They defiantly saw how bad they wanted to get to Shuab and took advantage big time..
trade for Howard. Keep penny.
maybe its time to start chatter on a new d coordinator. it is almost opposite of a few years ago when our offense would go 3 and out and the defense would be right back on the field again. now, the offense is having long sustained drives, and the other team spends a minute and half or so drive to score. the strength of the defense was our linebackers before the season. not now.
Its really Petes defense I think. But I agree something needs to change scheme wise because it is way too simplistic and they dont have a physically superior roster to overcome that.
Some of us have been saying it almost all season, but often get push back. Maybe your exhortation is a positive sign that others are catching on. The tendency is to fault the player part of the equation, though last week I made the point that players don’t do the video break down of the opposition, don’t draw up the game plan, and players don’t choose the in game alignments and play calls. Below I pointed out the poor half time adjustments, also not on the players. We got a huge clue a few weeks back when PC said in the NO post game presser something along the lines that they had no idea Kamara was as good as he showed!!! If that’s true, whomever is charged with breaking down the opponent play is in the wrong job. This isn’t the worst coaching staff in the league, but they’re pretty middlin’. And we’ll have to learn to accept that for the balance of the season.
I am in full agreement on the poor halftime adjustment statment. Today was a perfect example. It used to be a strength and no longer is
Just wondering. What kind of halftime adjustments do you make when you are dominating 24-0?
Love that the Hawks are 6-2 and props for that but wow this team needs a ton of work.
This is easily the worst defense of the Pete Carrol era IMO. They need to switch something up and quick or this team goes from 6-2 to not making the playoffs with the schedule they have remaining.
I really hope that Pete moves away from sticking with this Base defense so much and like pronto. Love KJ but he looks slow and teams are just eating them alive with the short passing game. Hopefully they insert Diggs in the slot, Mcdouglad comes back to play SS and Blair continues to improve. Then pray that Tre comes back healthy because he and Shaq really have not played badly.
CLowney, Shaq and Poona are the only 3 players who seem to be really playing well. I guess you could include Wagner but he seems to have regressed this year to me. Kendricks definitely flashes but misses a ton of tackles as well.
Anyways not sure if it scheme or talent but this defense needs a ton of work and it is as little surprising to be honest.
even if we do make the playoffs, how far could we get with the d playing this bad. the hawks are playing down to the opponents, and making the games tight. They wont squeak by a playoff team with a win
I disagree with Poona Ford playing well, he is not even in top 2 for DTs. Quinton Jefferson and Al Woods are both better than him. Poona is a force in run defense, but non-existence in passing downs.
There is just no killer instinct in this team. The team attitude has to start and end with the head coach, I am sorry, that falls on Pc. His lenient coaching style is catching up with him. In the past we had fiery players like Sherman, Chanceller, Thomas and Baldwin to do the motivation, now it is Pc’s time and he is failing.
Neil I agree the team needs more of a killer instinct. But this team is 6-2 and you think Pete is failing?
If it needs more of a killer instinct, where else should we look if not the head coach? that is my point.
There’s plenty of responsibility to pass around.
I agree with that but Belichick reinvents his team almost every year, and they very seldom have two bad games in a row. The Vikings had a bad stretch a few weeks ago but Zimmer got that turned around in a hurry.
PC and JS are not Bill B. They have completely different styles when it comes to dealing with players. I know most people hold the Patriot’s way as the only way to win but I don’t. We do need more consistent domination and stop playing to the level of the team we face each week. I’m so tired of this bend-don’t-break defense…it almost cost us a game today. As for Zimmer, he is lucky he has Kubiak whispering in his (and the players) ear. It was only a matter of time before the Vikings Offense woke up and started producing.
Sorry, but who says that we need more consistent domination? “Asserting will” as the single means of strategy is a dumb idea in the NFL, especially against competent lines (that Falcons OL and DL units were good).
Plus, playing to your personnells strength and to the adversaries weakness is common sense, and not strictly Bill B style.
We have shown the ingredients at different points. Lots of quick passing like on the Metcalf TD, which makes our OLs life easier. Filling the slot with a vompetent player, which John Ursua showed. A complementary different runner like Jordan Howard (ummh… Kenyan Drake is on the market). And continue to improve Metcalfs route running. Sign a young TE or Ryan Griffin from the Jets.
On the D, back to nickel and BWagz closer to the fore. Play the young LBs. And stop pretending the safety corps is the problem. Blair had his second start, he was good. Amadi next, please. I cannot tell, what the problem in the DL is. Ansah is possibly done, but the other guys performance has to improve massively. There is hope, that the moving pieces finally come together, but we might need a coaching change here.
Finally, a lot of more settling for a FG. We are too fixated on making a TD.
Who said asserting will should be a solitary tactic?
Our CB depth is horrendous. Shaquill played well so they just threw it to the other side of the field and it worked. It makes me think a trade for Slay would help the defense out a lot, but would it? If we refuse to take a linebacker out in a 3 wr set then it doesn’t matter who we have at corner, they’ll just throw it at a linebacker and complete it 9 times out of 10. Clowney played well, even if he isn’t getting the sacks he is getting a lot of pressures and hits but it’s only him. Would a trade for Von Miller upgrade the defense? Once again if we can’t figure out simple personel packages then it doesn’t even matter. I would trade for Slay let Mcdougald and Diggs start at safety then move Diggs to nickel CB in pass situations and bring Blair in as the other safety. Adding slay would make avoiding Griffin not an option and give us a chance at more turnovers.
Is it lack of talent or scheme? I know this Pete’s D, but what is Norton bringing to the table?
Rob your slightly (giving the benefit…..) pessimistic view is reasonable. It looked like ATL made the half time adjustments to up their game, and the Seahawk coaching staff didn’t. I was surprised to see the Falcons mostly go after Griffen in the first half, instead of the subs on the other corner. Well, they changed that at half. The Seahawk offense seemed to go to sleep in the third quarter as well, but improved that tiny just enough in the fourth to avoid total embarrassment.
I don’t have anything against making some personnel moves in the next couple days, it can’t hurt and might make a tiny bit of difference, but we’ve got a coaching problem over and above personnel from the DC level on down. Beside the improvements noted so far by some of the guys here (Blair mostly), ST looked a bit better, though not clear if that is improvement or Falcons shortfall. Dickson has been rushed a fair bit this season on his punts and hasn’t shown well. Today it looked like he had the extra tick of the clock to kick more comfortably.
Fans need to come to terms with this being a mediocre team outcome wise and the season will likely end with a yawn and maybe some gnashing of teeth as the Hawks cruise to third in the division.
Well said and great points Bob except I tend to diagree with them coasting into 3rd in the division. The Rams are suspect as well.
I think the Hawks ended up in the 10-6 range and squeak into the playoffs as a wild card with a likely early exit unless Russ truly catches fire.
I also think it is also something to consider that despite having just 1 win, Atlanta is not a 1-win team. They had three games this year that they lost by one score – any of those games tilt their way and there’s a chance Atlanta comes into this game 4-3.
There’s only one thing we can all agree on at this point…….Rob wants us all to start a Fire-Ken Norton bandwagon.
(: Go Hawks
Oh I don’t know about that. Honestly my issue is with the offence right now. Three points in the second half. Gave the Ravens 14 points last week and again, disappeared in the second half…
I expected the D to suck, they have been below average, I expected the offence to step up but instead they get hot and then they get shut down
Jets TE Ryan Griffin went 4-66-2 TD today, only had 46 yards on the season going into that game. He’s decently athletic, has had moderate success as a receiving TE with the Texans in the past. Could be a cheap band-aid pickup that wouldn’t cost us much in terms of draft compensation – maybe a conditional 6th/7th.
I know this won’t help us this season but it is starting to feel like Calais Campbell is a must sign in the off season. Then add speed in the secondary through the draft. I’m not sure how realistic it will be but getting a badass like him up the middle could free Clowney up (assuming he is resigned).
I believe we can beat the Bucs at home next week, and Minnesota at home, and Arizona at home. I think we will probably lose to the Niners twice this season, Philadelphia on the road, and we could lose to both the Rams and the Panthers on the road. I think we are a minimum 9 win team. We have some difficult games on the schedule. Any opinions on what our record could look like at the end of the season?
Seahawks defense: https://twitter.com/i/status/1186849842913431554
* Seahawks defense to each other
Carroll needs to realize Bobby & KJ just aren’t that dominant any more. They’re solid, but KJ especially can’t run like he used to. Really wouldn’t mind seeing Barton get some snaps, ala Blair.
Barton hasn’t looked particularly good when he’s been given a shot.
Barton will have growing pains. So will BBK. But I’d love to see both of them especially BBK… since BBK runs in the 4.5s and is great in coverage
At this point, can he be worse than KJ or Kendricks? There will be some growing pains but good for the long haul.
Yes, unfortunately he can.
He actually proved it on the field. Cody is going to be special but he has a lot to learn still. Fortunately for him he has Bobby and KJ as mentors…same for BBK and the rest of the LB corps.
The weird thing for me is how different they are to 2018. Last year they reclaimed the running game and turned an 0-2 start with growing pains into an excellent 10-4 finish that could’ve been better. They were young, tough, re-energised and hungry. They had their identity again.
The collapse of the defense and the way the team lurches between timid and exciting is weird. Last year they tended to have off-days. Not off-quarters regularly.
I’m worried what the Niners will do to this defense.
Yes it is weird. The rookie/2nd yr count went up (proportionally) but not much else is apparent.
For a few weeks the football world has been questioning whether or not the Niners were real (SOS), pointing to today’s game as the tell. Hmmmmmmmm. For us the Panthers are fairly similar in performance to the Seahawks (which is not the same as saying they are identical). The Hawks have the better qb, rb is a slight tilt to Panthers, but otherwise the similarities are there. I looks like the Niners will double up on the Hawks this season if performances continue for each in outcome. For those that rail against the PC defensive scheme the reality is the Niners follow a largely similar one, with a few Saleh-isms mixed in. Their advantage likely is all the early round talent they have coupled with a more nimble minded Defensive staff (watch the video, you’ll almost never see Shanahan working Saleh during the game as we see PC working Norton, even if you allow for D vs O preferences of the head coach, that’s telling).
I don’t expect us to be able to beat S.F. this year. I didn’t expect us to beat them last year if they had a healthy Garoppolo. He got hurt and they tanked to the #2 pick each round in a year where they had a lot of picks to extremely strengthen an already competitive team with the second pick in each round. How many times has Seattle picked in the top under Carroll? I believe it’s none. But the concerns about the defense should have been there last year when Nick Mullens was torching us. This team has always had a tendency to make bad QBs look good and we saw that today. I didn’t even notice or hear mentioned that Tre Flowers was out of the game. But why was Akeem King in before Jamar Taylor? The experiment as safety needs to stop period. Blair needs to be the starter and in every play the rest of the year. I’ll take the growing pains now. Diggs and McDougald can compete for SS or FS. On defense KJ needs to start getting subbed out to give way for Jamar Taylor in the nickel.
I think we need to hold strong and keep our draft picks. Move up for once in the draft get Raekwon Davis for the interior of our line and draft Willie Gay Jr. as KJ’s replacement. Unlike most people I actually like watching Kendricks play. Yes he has missed tackles but man is his speed evident and does he fly around. For some reason Bobby just doesn’t look to be himself. I don’t see the explosiveness I have seen in years past. Clowney is a must resign at this point. Everyone else that is a free agent can be let go for all I care. I am actually more up beat about how the Griffen, Flowers, and Blair have been playing. I hope Diggs can come in and look like a difference maker. I think McDougald is solid but he never has jumped off the screen for me. This defense needs to get back to being Bigger, Faster, Stronger period. How do we get there? That is the question.
I agree with your worry about the 49ers. The hope for the Hawks will have to be ball control offense.
The Panthers were able to run on SF. McCaffrey is brilliant but we have RB’s too. When I saw McCaffrey at Stanford I thought that he was Hugh McElhenny updated to the modern era. I may have underestimated him.
While I’m with you, I’m also not. It’s strange. I know where you’re seeing it from, but I just don’t feel that way myself. This is a hopeful group. It’s a group finding it’s way through some adversity. Injuries, shuffling, and some legitimate scheme game from opposing OCs.
The defense may feel like it’s stepping back, sure. But back from what? Having a revolutionary defensive scheme packed with pro bowlers becoming the envy of the league? Heck, Pete’s defensive scheme has been adopted by over a dozen teams now with varying flavors. It’s not unique anymore. Teams know it, and Pete’s doing his darndest to shake it up a bit.
It’s the creativity mixing in along with good heads up football iq that’s keeping it ahead. Finding ways to beat offensive schemes designed and perfected, team after team, to gash us. I can’t defend the DLs performance this year, but I can’t sit by and see them attacked by fans either. It takes time. And until that time has passed, we rely on our guys to make plays. It’s not ideal, for sure, but I trust this franchise and the players to continue to grow. Isn’t that enough?
As side notes to consider.
Another week of the o-line shuffle (And losing Britt)
Aching about the backup QBs performance doesn’t give enough respect to the Falcons playmakers. Julio in particular.
More poorly timed penalties hurting drives.
More poorly timed drops hurting drives (and RW3s stats)
Cheers to a win.
I felt that way last season. Now I think the defense just isn’t good enough and won’t be without major repair work. Who can you build around? Clowney’s a FA. Griffin? Bobby isn’t playing as well. Who else? Genuinely? Blair maybe?
Well, at no point last year did I ever feel like the defense was a massive problem. I do now. They were rebuilding and the run D wasn’t good enough. But they were supposed to take a step forward this year and they’ve regressed badly.
Julio is awesome. That doesn’t mean calling out the defense for giving up a 460 yard day to Matt Schaub is inappropriate.
??
Winovich has been a baller for New England.
The pats are laying it down on Cleveland… Landry really ticked Bill off. Still their schedule is a cake walk.
And every time anyone mentions Winovich I’ll ask whether you don’t want DK Metcalf on the team because that’s the choice you’re making here.
I’m happy with DK.
I actually may take Chase instead of Blair at this point though. But it’s too early to tell.
Sure but then everyone would take Russell Wilson #1 in 2012 too.
As soon as you start jumping a full round it becomes a farfetched discussion. Winovich would’ve been taken in the Metcalf pick range. Nobody should regret the DK pick. And Winovich is an ideal scheme fit for an overachieving, brilliantly coached NE defense. Doesn’t mean he’d have the same impact here.
You said it your self Rob, brilliantly coached.!!
Yes by the greatest coach ever.
Don’t fall into the trap so many do of comparing anything to BB.
I hate to keep banging on this drum, but we could have taken Winovich as opposed to Collier. However, it is easy for us to sit back with hindsight and say these things. I wanted Winovich after he tested though.
No we couldn’t. Winovich was a third round pick. That’s like saying a team could’ve had Sherman instead of the corner they took in R1 in 2011. Come on be realistic.
Fire Norton after the season! That would be a good start. The defense has no discipline, no scheme awareness, no speed. And before you say it’s Carroll’s defense, they just fired Richard less than two years ago.
Well……I suppose Dan Quinn will be available next year.
A lot of Seahawks fans like DQ. Look at the way his defense has played this year. A disorganised mess. And he won’t have the LOB next time.
That’s not an apple to apple comparison. Plenty of coordinators have failed as head coaches & then gone back to being good coordinators again. What’s happening in Atlanta is alarming and I’m not particularly advocating for Quinn per se. But you have to think they erred in hiring Norton over Bradley. They have to find a capable coordinator who is not coddling his old LB buddies.
They didn’t hire Norton over Bradley. Bradley signed an extension in LA rather than moving back to Seattle.
The simple fact is Atlanta’s defense is terrible and DQ is a defensive coach. Last time he was in Seattle he had a legendary defense to work with. He wouldn’t have that now.
I am not necessarily advocating for DQ to come back. PC will know if DQ can be successful here again. All I am saying is a change is needed.
I don’t know who the replacement should be. After all, two years ago this time, I wouldn’t have guessed PC hiring Schottenheimer over Bevell.
Like he knew Ken Norton would be successful here?
Although the defense as a whole has regressed, the biggest problems are on the DL. At what point does Clint Hurtt deserve some scrutiny?
I think the problem is bigger than Hurtt. What does he have to work with? Green & Collier aren’t really world beaters. The rest are career journeyman like Woods, QJeff and BJackson or situational players like Ford. Clowney is doing his thing. If PC/JS expected anything more from this dline, they need a reality check.
Having said that, I think if we can get two speed rushers in the off season, the dline will be an overall strength next year.
A few bittersweet things showed up. Akeem King is a dump truck, followed by his pickup truck brother Taylor. You can’t have an easier INT thrown at you than King, and his other miscues were equally as dreadful. Taylor, also a liability….OBVIOUS things came out of this.
Pass rush still is possibly worst in the NFL with zero improvement vs. a line giving them up like halloween candy.
NFL refs are horrid. Missing the blatantly obvious face mask on Wilson, then Clowney hitting the QB so late right in front of the ref…..just horrid refereeing. The Seahawks make crappy teams look good and that tells me a lot about this years version. The record is there but the team just doesn’t play like it (is that even possible?)……..
Can you imagine if we hadn’t gotten Clowney and relied upon Collier and Ansah for our edge rush. OMG! Poona seems okay for a rotation guy, but Greene as a development guy has shown no consistency at all. He looks good on a few plays, then disappears. Reed is just not in sync yet and we’re not getting much pocket collapse up the middle.
I’ve said all along that our DL wasn’t going to start coming together until the second half of the season. I’ve had faith in that notion early in the season, but losing some confidence in that now. If it’s going to happen, if we’re going to start getting better up front, then it better start now.
The Flowers injury is concerning. We were finally getting to the point where we could begin making sense out of our secondary from a personnel and positional standpoint and then this. We’ve got to generate some more stability in that unit so that players can know their roles and start figuring out how to get better at them within whatever scheme is being employed.
I’ve also been concerned about the squishyness of our D just beyond the line of scrimmage. There seems to be a lack of speed and tackling going on from our LB corp, which is not something I expected. It’s why I’ve been wondering about giving Barton and BBK some more reps to see if we can improve in this area.
There’s just too much uncertainty throughout the defense now, all three units. Part of it might be scheme. That’s up for debate. But it’s got to start coming together soon, real soon. Our schedule is going to start getting real difficult after next weekend.
I feel even more adamant about what I said yesterday or day before in the trade article thread. This defense/team is not worth trading away draft stock. The D is not good at all. Agree with Rob Clowney and Griffin are playing well. We are paying Wagz #1 $ for replacement level performance. The DL makes zero impact which limits the LBs, and the grand plan of this season is to have 3 LBs cover a league full of fast WRs, which just isn’t a good plan, and they are not even very good at stopping the run.
At least we have a maybe on fixing Safety play, there is no help from the DL. Even if Reed goes game wrecker that’s enough.
Feel free to feel adamantly about it — but if they have an opportunity to help the QB they have to take it. It’s not about knee-jerk wastefulness. It’s about doing something to help a 6-2 team not waste a 6-2 start. And the players we’ve talked about (OJ Howard for example) are not 2019-only players.
Totally, if the right deal presents itself to fix the glaring hole at Tight End, go for it. Just don’t Sheldon Richardson the deal 😀
I love how Sheldon Richardson has become a verb, thanks to Malik McDowell. That was a serious wart in recent history.
I think the elephant in the room is pass rush isn’t it? Clowney has what….one sack in 8 games? Reed ‘maybe’ needs more time but I felt even last year with all those sacks half of them were just ok. We will see with Reed but who else can get to the QB on a fairly regular basis? Collier? Green?Ansah? Righty Ho.
I seriously don’t see us getting back to the big game until this problem is resolved. Considering RW seemingly will never allow us to get a top 10 pick I don’t see this problem getting solved through the draft. What-to-do….what-to-do.
It’s part of the reason why I’ve been advocating for making a bold move to trade up in the draft next spring if, and I mean IF, some stud of a player falls near that #10 spot. I would trade this year’s first and a 2nd or 3rd and next year’s first to move up for, say, a potential impact player on the DL. I want a stud DL, preferably an edge rusher, on a five year rookie contract.
This won’t be the year to hope for that. There aren’t the DL players to make that deal for. Chase Young won’t be at #10 with the way he’s playing.
Yeah, you got me on that, as you and some other draft experts have noted. Chase Young is maybe the only guy that fits that bill on the edge. That’s who has been on my mind. Not sure if I’d do that for DT like Brown. I’ve only recently thought this way because PC/JS have been pretty damn good at maximizing and mining the draft. What they haven’t had is the chance to draft a real blue chip talent since the likes of ET and Okung. The only way for that is the trade up scenario.
I think it’s definitely the most glaring deficiency we have. Just gotta hope that is something we keep working on with extra emphasis this year. Double down in the off-season and get some dudes in here. There may be some decent options in Free Agency – Markus Golden, Shaq Barrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, Benson Mayowa.
And then trade up for Chase Young.
I didn’t like Clowney’s play today, he had multiple killer penalties that probably extended drives and led to points allowed. Effort, sure, but frequently losing his head.
He had a couple of Michael Bennett flags. He also had a sack, a great TFL and he’s the only one doing anything.
Sad but true.
I’ll take a spin on the positive train for a moment:
Michael Dickson had a nice game.
Got to see more of the youngsters play here- Blair, Barton, Penny. Overall, not a bad outing for them.
Russ does Russ things- 131 passer rating.
This is no SB team, but a wildcard contender, who depending on the matchup (hello Dallas), could squeeze a playoff win. That’s what I’m rooting for here and I think realistic. 6 wins in the bag, need 4 more. I’ll take them as ugly as this win too.
Seeing regression of stalwarts Wagner, Wright, D.Brown is a bit concerning for next year. Was hoping to squeeze another solid year from them, especially given the payroll. If continues, definitely last year of KJ with Barton slotting in. May need to draft Brown’s developmental replacement next year as well.
I had to watch this game on tape (after I already knew the outcome) and maybe that is why I seem to feel differently about it?
Re: pass rush–Clowney did have 4 QB hits as well. What I see is an Atlanta game plan of getting the ball out very fast, which tends to negate even a good rush. The Seahawks did influence the passing game (despite the yards). Atlanta tried to dink and dunk and racked up a lot of first downs that way, but did not get to the end zone enough to win. I also saw TFLs in the running game, which Atlanta largely abandoned for good reason (69 rushing yards, Freeman held to a 3.0 avg).
I did think the Seahawks took their foot off the gas in the second half, and it almost came back to bite them. I wonder what the sentiment about this game would be if the halves had been reversed? Down 20-3 at the half, score 24 unanswered in the second to win? I don’t doubt that had more been required to win here, Wilson/Seahawks would have put the necessary drive together.
I still think this team is capable of finishing 11-5 or better. Call me a looney optimist if you must, but 4-0 on the road in the NFL is pretty fantastic (with 3 early east coast starts) and I don’t care WHO the opposition was. This is the NFL.
Blair handed out some bruises and ice bath time. He also snuffed a screen play with a shoestring tackle. DK is only getting better each week and I think Collier will make an impact in the second half if the season.
The sad thing is that we could have an even bigger buffer for the tougher second half and be 8-0. The 5 special teams and defensive touchdowns allowed in the two losses were the difference in those games. Of course, we’re also a missed field goal away from 5-3.
That second half was crazy bad. 3 three and outs. 4 drives of 67+ yards allowed.
Rob,
Once again you’ve hit the nail on the head with where this team falls short. Our DL simply isn’t good enough at this point.
Being a cup half full person though, some things I liked:
1. Blair can flat out ball.
2. We’re 4-0 on the road since the first time since forever.
3. As ugly as this win is, we continue to win close games.
As for upgrades, what are we prepared to give up? Future draft picks? Cap room?
If we can land a stud or two on defense then yah – let’s go for it. But it would have to be a real difference maker. Otherwise I’m in the camp that we tweak where we can ( Robby Anderson I’m sure would look good to Russ) give our younger guys a shot where we can and hope Russ and our offense can continue to carry the load – save the major overhaul for next year.
I agree with Rob’s trade-takes: hard to imagine anything that fixes the defense at this point, but something to reinforce the offense could make a difference down the stretch. TE is the one position that could be obviously upgraded.
I’ll also say — I’d be open to a defensive trade. But the options out there that have been made public aren’t great. They seem better on offense. Just get better, especially if you can get players who can help beyond 2019. Nothing reckless, calculated. Like the Diggs trade.
Would Vic Beasley qualify here as a defensive upgrade in your opinion? I feel like there were rumors about his availability. Not sure what the cost would be, but do you feel like he would inject some life, or just more of the same talent level?
Beasley has been poor for a long time now and he’s expensive.
We also have to remember that as difficult of a stretch of games that are approaching after next weekend, this is the NFL, and injuries to these teams can happen, and any of these teams could throw up a stinker of a game against us. It’s not automatic that we lose against the 49ers on MNF. It’s not automatic that we lose to the Rams on the road. We’re not the only team who can stink it up during a half or for a whole game.
Watching SF ball out is just adding salt to our wounds
Indeed. Although I still think they’re peaking too soon.
They have playmakers all across the DL and Nick Bosa looks like the next great defensive player in the league. They’re running the ball consistently brilliantly. Their players are having fun and have some of our old swagger. Hard to watch.
Sounds like they think Britt has a torn ACL. If so, that is just so unfortunate. Can’t help but feel for a guy who has so quietly become a dependable cog on our o-line. Tough break.
The people who have been advocating for us to move on from Britt are going to see the grass isn’t always greener.
I think we should give Deshawn Shead a call. Give him a look at corner if Flowers is going to be out and he can play safety if Hill can’t get back. He was clearly one of the best 53 in camp and shouldn’t have been cut. Or…trade for slay (I’d rather not trade penny but a straight up trade or a 3rd would work for me)
King looked like a liability out there today. TT and McDougald didn’t look good. Blair looks legit and I love the fear factor he brings. Shaquille looks good. Hopefully Diggs carves out a role and plays well or McDougald gets back to form.
Linebackers need to play better. More missed tackles for Kendricks today but at least he is flying around. Wagz doesn’t look like a hungry dog anymore, guess he’s eating good after that big contract. Missing camp can’t help.
I still have hope the DL can play better but I’d like to see more blitzes if things don’t improve. Someone needs to step up and help Clowney get to the QB.
If we can trade for Howard I’d give up as much as a 1st for him. A 3rd or penny for Slay. And give shead a look.
Clowney is actually starting to look more comfortable out there. It looked like he was thinking too much during most of the first half of the season. We’ve got to keep it easy for Clowney, as I think Rob mentioned once before. Give him maximum flexibility to be disruptive.
So Dan Quinn seems like he will be available soon if Ken Norton is not cutting it as DC, Maybe another draft and another year of development. This is clearly not a team who will threaten for a SB. so let us just see it as a building block season, However we need to get there soon or call it a day with this current coach and personnel arrangement
Did anyone else notice on the last defensive play from scrimmage, Blair made the tackle to keep the wide receiver in bounds, and immediately favored his shoulder. He was not on the field on the play where the Falcons clocked it…
I actually had the Seahawks going 11-5 this years and at the mid season point I am a game off so far. I had us losing to Saints, Eagles, Vikings, and the Rams and 49ers in California. Now we are at the halfway point and after this game its still possible but highly unlikely. This team is not ready to step up this year and there isn’t another player out there they can grab that will change their situation. I was excited to see the 1st half of this Atlanta game where Seattle was rolling and they looked great. The 2nd half reality stepped in and proved to me that this team is only going to go as far as Wilson can carry it.
Let’s start with the Offense. This line is old and worn out. The loss of Dissly and now Britt is a serious concern. I don’t believe there is a player out there they can trade for that will help. Injuries to all 6 positions on this line is a big deal for the rest of the year.
Defense is also riddled with injuries in the back end and line needs lots of help. Sadly Ziggy is not even close to being what we had hoped for which has forced us to Blitz more.
Too be quite honest I just can’t see Seattle making the playoffs and winning these close games unless RW has an MVP season and carries this team on his back. I believe by the end of this season we will see a lot more holes that are going to have to be filled on both lines. I am extremely encourage with this WR group for the future. I was hoping to see them get better as the year went on but I’m not blindman. This team will go as far as RW can carry it. So there is hope. Go Hawks.
When we lost the coin flip I was worried, then we got a good drive and 3 points. Major victory for the offense which has not looked good in the first quarter.
Defense also played great in first half. We won the first half.
At halftime the attitude must have been lets not make mistakes, don’t change a thing. Atlanta had a better plan, get the ball out quick on screens and short underneath passes. They won the second half.
Great game by Lockett and Blair. Poor game by Reed and the o-line (penalties again).
I think the big need is a center, how do they get one in the next two days?
Hunt is capable, and there is no fix to be had at Center via trade.
Is it possible to give consideration that notoriously PC’s teams are a 2nd half team? It appears to me that Pete is still figuring things out, and winning ugly in the process. I’m sure Pete can live with that.
I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, because film “don’t lie.” It is quite obvious their play is not acceptable for a championship team, which presently they’re not. I’m quite sure Pete can see that as well.
Could you imagine if they had blown out a D.Q. led Falcon team, that led to an immediate firing of his close buddy? Pete would be more than happy to have won this game by 3 pts, and allow some semblance of Quinn being qualified to run the Falcons as Head coach.
I’m willing to give them a pass on this one, and hold the critique until the Nov 11 match up with SF, or if another home loss does occur to the Bucs. But, injuries are beginning to mount, which decreases their odds of turning things around.
IMO, since XLVIII, ego/process/culture has supplanted the vision, purpose, product. I think it’s what Sherm, Bennett, Lynch alluded to in their own way.
Despite their record and talent, the Seahawks are a mess.
If the Hawks are a mess, then what are the Dolphins, Bengals, Jets, and Redskins?
We’re 6-2. That’s good. If anything, barring some significant injuries, we stand to improve during the 2nd half of the season, even if our 2nd half record is quite as good.
It could be a lot worse, couldn’t it?
Yes.
Paul, we aren’t a mess, we just have issues. The second half of today’s game highlighted them. There were some dumb mistakes on both the defense and the offense. We didn’t come out hungry in the second half to seal this game up and make a statement. Is that coaching or players, I honestly don’t know. Some dumb mistakes and obvious misses are on the players. Scheme and aggressiveness is on the coaches.
The Hawks are a mess, the teams you mentioned are a shambles – and at least the Dolphins are deliberately so.
Such a weird team to watch. Half stuck in the past, half trying to move forward, half trying to make do with what they’ve got. Shouldn’t be surprising that three halves don’t fit together all that well. 6-2 with this many close games doesn’t really tell the story. Could just as easily be 4-4, 3-5, even 2-6. From memory there’s very little correlation year-to-year with win/loss records in close games, some years you win them, some you don’t.
No easy answers, but we’ve seen how quickly teams can turn things around. There are so many poor teams, and the league operates on such fine margins, that organisational competence will see you make the playoffs most years. And if you get there… Who knows?
I think you’re under selling how difficult it is to consistently make the playoffs.
Replace Russell with Darnold, Keenis, Fitzpatrick & we aren’t too far from the teams you mention.
I think, “at least we’re not the Dolphins” sums this season up.
With Britt out we have an issue at center. Joey is totally capable of being our center and I believe in him and his skills at that position, so not worried about Joey. He did well…but if he gets hurt, then what?
Tom:
Thanks. I agree, are their any centers on practice squads worth grabbing and putting on our roster? Or do need a street pick up.
I would prefer a good young player that could potentially replace Hunt. Hunt is good, but undersized, Grady beat him badly on that holding play.
I believe that Hunt is only undersized at the other positions (terrible at G and as Fant’s “replacement TE”). As a center he holds his own and can be the captain of the OL so not worried about that and actually glad we’ve kept him to this point. We need veteran depth at C for backup, not a rookie that is learning though. We don’t have a plan B at this point and we need one.
When could Pocic be eligible to return from IR? At this point, don’t know the extent and duration of Britt’s injury.
I noticed Jamarco jones snapping the ball to Geno after Hunt went in… so I presume he is currently the back up?
The Seahawks are truly frustrating. Funny to be saying that at 6-2.
There are going to be some tough decisions in the next few days.
Do we really think we should go all in on trades because we are 6-2?
Do we really think we are better than NO/LAR/SF/GB/PHI/MIN this year even with an addition or two?
If we trade say a first for OJ and we give Penny and a 3rd for Slay is this going to cripple us in the future?
Where is the supposed improved play from Moore??…They put him out there and haven’t even given Ursua one chance. Moore has NOT improved and in fact looks not so good. Ursua hasn’t played at all…..”he’s not ready”…BS…..Get him in some games and see if he’s ready, just like Blair, who WAS ready, while everyone was saying he wasn’t.
Hopefully they will get Ursua in there at the right time, really excited to see what he can do. D Moore has been playing ok but today was not his best game but I think he is better than Brown. Malik keeps flashing special potential…but it is just flashes.
I dont get what Ursua brings that Moore doesnt.
Moore is a playmaker. He makes tough catches and gets YAC. He has a rapport with Russ too. His downside is probably route running and consistency. Ursua would have the same struggles, but is unproven, doesnt have a rapport with Russ, and is smaller, limited to the slot, where Moore can play anywhere and is a better blocker.
We’ve only had a small sampling of John U to this point, mainly in the pre-season. But his quickness and ability to make plays (during the pre-season mind you) were Doug-est. Maybe just me thinking there is a lot of potential there.
I saw Moore trip over the chalk line yesterday and not even get to a catchable ball. Ursua is QUICK. He reminds me of Edelman in that regard. Give him a friggin chance. Moore has had his and it’s pretty underwhelming.
This is all very annoying, here I am casually enjoying a Seahawks blow out win. Nice and easy, no stress. Then we completely poop the bed in the second half and it almost feels like a loss.
The defence could hopefully improve if our secondary can get healthy and Reed gets his groove back, but it’s not going to be a good unit this year. Like you said Rob, 6-2 is a great record and I don’t want to waste it, with Russel Wilson we’re in every game and we need to make life as easy as possible for him. Trade for OJ Howard please.
I have just gotten used to the Seahawks playing down to the level of competition, not just this year but for years. They didn’t look like a 6-2 team in the second half, but they certainly did in the first half when the game was still on the line. My observations would start with losing Britt hurts although not as bad as Dissly, Ansah is a was of cap space, Brown and Moore are a waste of roster space and the DB depth sucks, and the LB look old and slow. I think I miss judged exactly how bad the hawks would miss Coleman in the slot, but Coleman> than KJ + Kendricks (as far as salary cap)? Certainly between the 20 yard marks, but nice to have those big body’s in a goal line situation. Clowney and LJ are who we thought they where highly capable run stuffers that can offer some value as pass rushers in a nascar set, but don’t offer much as pass rushers from DE(same can be said of Green). You can be as mad as you want at PC or Norton, but really they are just playing the cards they have. We have two starting quality CB when we need 3 and if one is hurt then we have 1/3 the amount of starters we need, we don’t have a pass rusher on the Dline, and our all world TE is missing his second season in a row. My solution would be to start getting Umandi some play time in the slot or move McDougald there and try to find a starter, start Blair at FS, and Diggs at SS and save the 3 LB crap for goal line. Bench or cut Ansah entirely, same for Brown and Moore. Save our draft picks for addressing the pass rush, Te, and CB position for next year. We need to stop redshirting everyone for a year and find out sooner or later if they can play. We had 7 rounds to address the pass rush this year and decided nah, and same with replacing Coleman if Umandi isn’t that guy.
Agree.
Dang. I think I agree with most except ‘playing down’ to opponents. If anything, I think we play up to better competition. I would say we’re closer to the Steelers, Browns than Rams, Saints.
I personally just think this team always plays to it’s competition. The defense played really hard the first half, and was actually pretty decent. Clowney had his best game of the year in my opinion. The strip sack, and chasing down Freeman in the backfield was impressive. Shaq had a solid game, and is getting better. Possibly Diggs can shore up some of our short game passing woes.
Dline though is still not there. We need to do something bad with our Dline. It must be the priority this off season. Sign Clowney if can get for a decent deal, and then spend some draft capitol on that position, taking best guys available. It must be a priority next year. I still am not remotely convinced it was a priority this past off season.
The good news is though that they made WR a priority last off season and seem to have hit on some pretty good players. We should be set there. They got some linebackers, hopefully we will be fine next year when KJ moves on or is released. Wagner will return to form, he is still a beast and top five in the league. The Oline depth is proving to be adequate out there, so that wont be a big need in the off season, possibly a center. So the team is moving forward slowly. I hope we keep our draft stock, keep the team the way it is and continue to rebuild. New DC may be a good move as well.
Had the Seahawks won the game 27-20 and outscored the Falcons 24-0 in the second half – we’d be drinking a lot more kool-aid (and thinking the first half wasn’t as big of a deal since we dominated the second half), but that was about as ugly of a win to stomach as can be. I don’t know what can revolutionize the defense to get this into Super Bowl contention aside from trading too many picks. Whatever they do, I hope they don’t trade any of their picks in the first two rounds. We need more Blair and DK 2nd round guys (and pray for no Pocics). Having those young guys on first contracts is the way to keep people hungry.
Sad to say, Bobbly, but I wish we had Pocic right now. We are really thin at center. I do agree that we need more dynamic playmakers though.
Tre Flowers was missed today.
He is average and covering and tackling, but the players behind him are not even that.
I would like to see Ugo Amadi or Quandre Digss play in the slot/ extra safety role. I know younger/new players are not always better, but the depth in the secondary looks not up to the task.
No one likes the 3 linebackers look, but the back up DB’s do not look up to the task either.
Defensive players to build around.
Tre Flowers and Shaquille Griffin – I like them both as core players
LB group – we have aging stars who are not quite the athletes that they were and some athletic young players that are learning the scheme. Who knows what the future is, but they have players to choose from
Safeties – Blair looks like he fits well, I’ll take the growing pains with him over someone who we know is not good enough. Fans need to stop looking for the next Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. They both are one of a kind unique players. I like the idea of 2 rangy cover safeties. Maybe Quandre Diggs is the other. The other guys need to get healthy to have a chance.
D line – the elephant in room. It seems that no one can rush the passer. Opposing teams can confidently double Clowney knowing that no one else can win 1 on 1 matchups. This is even against some bad O lines. In my opinion, this is the problem.
Our Defensive scheme is also a little bizarre. How can we not cover the the dump off pass? It seems our defensive strategy is to let the other team get free yards then start trying when they get into the red zone. I get that we are not an elite defense but something has to change.
Phil Haynes can play Center. FWIW.
I hope so. I haven’t seen reports that suggest that so anything you can throw at us that say that would be appreciated.
Clear the decks! The worst thing would be to do nothing.
Can’t fix all that is broken, but that shouldn’t preclude them from being open to trading Wright, Kendricks, Moore, Brown, Thompson, Hill, Ansah, Penny OR Prosise.
I would rather go 0-8 with the future (Blair, Diggs, Amadi, Ursua, Jennings, BBK, Barton) than 4-4 with the past (KJ, Thompson/Hill, Brown/Moore). It really doesn’t matter: The Seahawks are good, not great.
Be careful what you wish for, you may find us 0-8 with no future lol
Moore has zero value in a trade
Thompson has zero value in a trade
Hill has zero value in a trade
KJ is really only valuable to us due to our base scheme
Ansah has zero value
Penny at best would net a third
Prosise has zero value
Brown has value but when he leaves we won’t have a better LT for at least 5 years until we suck enough to have a high pick for an OT
If we traded them, we might end up with a third, a second, a fourth and a bunch of conditional 7ths
How does that build a contender?
Jaron Brown, not Duane.
Trading those players doesn’t build a contender. Neither does keeping them. That’s the point.
Just saying that they should be open to trading anyone not part of the rebuild.
But why? He just outlines that trading those players gets you basically nowhere, all you’ve done is robbed yourself of a chance in the present. People always want to live for some future time when everything is perfect in their minds, but those when those times come they’re always fraught with missteps and busted picks, too. Live in the now — your team is 6-2, and barring a total collapse, headed to the playoffs. This is what it’s all about. Get invited to the dance and let your HOF QB pull a rabbit out of the hat.
I assume you’ve enjoyed this era of Seahawks football? Never once has PCJS waived a white flag, not even with Tarvaris Jackson and a bunch of castoffs.
Enjoy the ride.
While sounding extreme, I very much agree with this take. In the NFL – you are either getting closer to a Super Bowl or further away. The turnover is so high in the league that you can’t take the baseball approach and just let things marinate for 4-5 years (very normal in baseball).
My fear is that this team is nowhere near a super bowl and yet we are playing guys who won’t be apart of the next run (if there is one).
I think it’s an interesting angle to be a seller at 6-2, but it makes a lot of sense considering the cap space and draft capital we have next offseason. You might as well gear up for a massive 2020 offseason and really aim towards being a SB favorite in 2021 – which I think they are capable of with another great draft and a big FA period.
Are we 6-2? Yes
Is it a mirage? Yes
Can Seahawks fans Have their cake and eat it to? Probably not.
In the write up at the beginning of the season it was noted their lack of pass rush, the average at best secondary, the thin and inexperienced receiving core. That this might be the year the offensive would have to carry us with Russ and Carson doing most of the work. Not much has changed except people’s expectations.
Now people want trades to put band aids on the same flaws. This is a rebuild whether we are 4-4 or 5-3 or whatever. The smart play is still to use those 5 picks in the first 4 rounds and the big cap space. Enjoy the succeses, look for growth from the young guys, be thankful for Russ and the rest will take care of itself. That may sound slightly aloof but I feel like the Sehawks are rolling with what they got and there’s nothing we can do about it. I’m sure they are aware of their own flaws
Agreed.
Fully agree, great post
I think there are a lot of pluses given we are in the midst of a rebuild
Most importantly still integrating new guys and a young squad that is parking how to win and be consistently great on the fly.
We will only get better
Learning not parking
We were up 27-11 with 5 minutes to play. We went into a shell thereafter. Britt was out. Duane Brown went out. The OL blocking in the second half was poor, we couldn’t move the chains and gave the ball back to Atlanta.
Sorry, I simply can’t muster the energy to get upset over a solid win on the road at 10am when we had significant injuries.
I was a little disappointed that we didn’t work on our blitz packages when we had the big lead but Pete doesn’t want to get beat over the top. Hard to blame him when he has so many new pieces in the secondary. You gotta play the clock. Dink and dunk doesn’t beat you but quick strikes might. So, they played soft. Not surprising.
I guess I’m the only Seahawks fan excited about this season. I still think the best is coming. Remember that I said that when we beat the 49ers…twice.
FWIW, I largely fall in this camp with regard to the victory.
But the Hawks will need to improve significantly to be a serious playoff threat. Can they? Absolutely. Have they shown much to believe they will? Not really.
They need a talent infusion or a defensive scheme change. Talent infusion via trade (offer 1st & 2nd for Julio Jones and see if Falcons bite?) or via playing some of young guys (Blair, Amadi, Collier, Barton).
Nick bosa has been unbelievably good.
Niners have the best Dline in the league and there isn’t a close second.
Armstead is having a breakout season. We know Buckner is good… but the supporting cast, Ronald Blair, DJ Jones, Solomon Thomas… just great depth.
You can’t overcome a team that has had top ten picks year after year and suddenly has a great qb and coach
Having 4 top 15 picks (Bosa, Thomas, Buckner, Armstead on your DL certainly is paying dividends for them right now.
Seems like NE and SF are the class of the league right now.
Unfortunately for the Hawks SF seem perfectly suited to give them a ton of problems with that DL and an offense that has a diverse run and short passing game. That MNF game in a couple of weeks has me very nervous.
We need improved play from the guys that we were counting on to be good red chip players. McDougald, Reed, Ansah haven’t played as well as they have in the past. The linebackers (all of them) and the OL (I expect better from Brown and Fluker especially) also.
But let’s not lose track of the fact that we were shutting them out in the first half and Julio Jones is great. They get paid to play too and they were never truly in it. Love what I’m seeing from Wilson, Lockett, Carson, Clowney and Griffin. Really encouraging stuff from Blair and Metcalf (Dissly before the injury) too. The hawks are flawed but I still like the way they’re headed. Most teams have issues, things change so much week to week and I feel like we still have a chance to win it all. 9ers and patriots look like the best teams right now but it’s a long season.
Felt like they were in it to me before the weird fumble call.
Julio didn’t have 460 receiving yards either.
I was at the game today and losing Britt sucks BIG TIME. The DL looks very unimpressive and pass rush outside of Clowney is non-existent. Like Rob was saying Reed will take some time to get game speed/timing back. I don’t know if there is any player on the block that will help the DL right now. Outside of someone like Von Miller that would cost a fortune, I think we’re stuck with what we’ve got. I continue to hear what the showcase of Rashaad Penny and him being potentially traded, but is something like a 3rd rd pick next year going to help us? Not now…
We’re very fortunate to be 6-2 and lucky we aren’t 4-4 (we easily could be). I potentially see 2-4 moves in the next few days to try to shore things up.
#gohawks
Well, I will say this again…for me this year is about players (to see what we have) not about team performance….and after this game it’s obvious that we have starting pro bowl calibre CB and that we have our new S…Blair and Shaq were great (yes Blair had some misses tackels)…
You know that I don’t now to much about this game but I think problem with defense isn’t in players its in scheme…and at some moment it will come from Pete’s ass to his head (that’s how we say that in mine language) and we will play more nickel and it will be much better…
One of negative things for me for the future is that Fant isn’t that at LT…
And Fluker is twice worce than Jamarco…
Agree completely about Jones being better than Fluker right now. He has been really good and should be the starter IMO.
I haven’t had a chance to read all of the comments yet. So forgive me at this point is already been made. But this game reminded me of a prize fight Where the superior boxer lays it on the inferior opponent for the first half of the fight but doesn’t quite finish them off. The lesser fighter hangs around and in the end makes the score card closer but ultimately had more to do with complacency from a better competitor. It would have been nice to see the Seahawks run all over them for the full game, It would’ve been reassuring to see that our system could totally dominate the Falcons. However this is a Dan Quinn coach team with a lot of pride and of course they weren’t going to go quietly at home. I think maybe we shouldn’t be as depressed as some are suggesting. However, we have all been very patient with a defense ready for it to kick into gear.
I will say, that both in 2013 and 2014 it wasn’t until around week 10 but the pass rush really got going. We have the talent at those positions. Maybe we will start to see more soon.
First of all for all those guys who don’t like J Britt did you see Mr Jarrett had a sack and 8 tackles for the falcons.but I do agree the defense has some issues. Rob what about Billy Price do you the Seahawks could pry him out of Cinnanati. I heard he might be available.
Bengals seem unwilling to trade anyone
I’d bet every GM in the league has deleted that contact.
They can’t even lose well…
Its kinda fun to compare the flow of the game to the direction of travel on the stairs in the stadium.
At most the Merc Dome was 50% full, and a 1/3 of those were Hawk fans. Stair flow was pretty much down and out all through half. After our second 3 and out and their second sustained drive, flow was back up into the seats. It stayed that way up to the fumble, which by everything they showed on the screens in stadium should’ve been reversed.
Couple of observations: The Falcons figured out real fast that Shaquill = pretty good, and King = not good. They did nothing but sent Julio his way. Julio didnt even have to work hard to get open. T2, whether he was worried about being burned deep or what, was always late getting there. Its an easy 15 yards every throw to Julio at that point.
There is a ton of things we could sit here and break down and point to as to why this game turned out how it did. Defense is on another level of bad. You can argue that the Defense is Pete’s and I won’t disagree, but Ken Norton is bad as a DC. The defensive play calling is as vanilla as it gets, and I REALLY don’t understand the blind devotion to keeping Kendricks on the field so much. It seemed like every other run Atl made for positive gain, Kendricks was rolling on the ground after another missed tackle.
Offensively, extending the “4 minute offense” mindset into “second half offense” is going to cost games. The only scoring drive in the second half was heavy on the throwing with runs sprinkled in. I know, Rob, you are going to come in with Seahawks are a run first team and the 40+ throwing attempts last week was indicative of them getting back to running this week.
The number 1 rule for coaching football is take what the other team gives you, and make them change. The Falcons gave up the pass, no questions asked. One drive in the second half led to points, and it was the one drive that was led by passing and running was complementary.
Georgia,
it’s nice to see someone call out the offense. 95% of the dialog on here is about the defense. I will certainly agree this defense looks mediocre at best. Was hoping the Dline would get healthy and improve overall defense but starting to wonder.
Yesterdays offensive 2nd half
3 and out
3 and out
10 play/FG
3 and out
2 kneel downs
Our maligned defense has given up 3,011 yards, yet our offense has gained almost an identical 3,069 yards.
Our defense gives up 6.2/play and our offense gains 5.9/play.
Our offense has given up 24 points via fumble/int returns (ST gave up another for total of 31 points)
Fortunately our defense has picked up 15 turnovers to create a +7 margin.
This isn’t to say our defense isn’t mediocre because it most certainly is, but so is our offense. It would be easy to point out more analytics on our Oline to see where the root of the problem lies but at the end of the day it’s what Mishima says above, “the seahawks are a mess”
Rob,
Any chance the LA Chargers might consider trading Joey Bosa? He’s the one addition to the pass rush that I feel might be worth going all in to obtain. The hawks current defense is solid if they can just find a way to eliminate the (currently league-leading) double teams on Clowney and create an aggressive and disruptive four or five man pass rush.
Phillip Rivers will need to be replaced soon. Chargers will be in full rebuild. Several solid QB prospects in upcoming 2020 draft. Would a 2020 first and third plus 2021 first for 25 year old Joey Bosa plus a 2020 fifth be enough to pry him away from LA? Also would have side benefit of bringing the Bosa brothers into the revived SEA/SF rivalry.
I think it’s worth considering. Curious if you and the community agree or if I’m totally crazy. Appreciate all you do Rob! Thanks for always enhancing my Seahawk experience!
I think it’d take multiple R1 picks to get Bosa.
I would do two 1st rounders for Bosa and throw in Rasheem Green. Does anybody have any confidence that those two 1sts would turn into anything close to Bosa? Recent history suggests no chance.
This team needs to be more aggressive with the roster. We have the single most valuable commodity in sports – a franchise QB. It’s high time that they say “we have probably 4 years to really win a Super Bowl” and have a sense of urgency to improve. That doesn’t mean trading away all your picks – but I think at this point we have all seen how incredibly overrated late 1st round picks have become; combine that with our lackluster performance in that round (in recent memory) – I think you need to think long and hard about using those for someone who is a difference maker at a critical position.
I don’t think LA would accept that offer, months from a move into their new stadium.
Do you thinking trading Reed is a possibility?
I don’t think so because it would further weaken a bad group.
Hawks would be selling low on him, Reed’s value isn’t especially high right now following a six game suspension. He’s also in the final year of his contract with only one really good season to date!
It’s always been old time football wisdom that you focus on beating everyone in your division first. We match up well against the Rams and Cardinals, as evidenced by our wins there( even if a gift missed kick helped) so it just remains to be scene how we line up against the suddenly amazing 49ers. I took some time really getting a good look at the 49ers yesterday and a couple things jumped out, 1st off is the wide nine defense they run and the amount of penetration the Dline is getting every single play. The wide 9 has a weakness to runs between the guard and tackle, and gets burnt by well disguised play action. It would be a lot better for us if we still had Disley, but schematically what we like to do, is what works well against them. The 49ers also rely on a strong running game and passing game that targets the TE and RB more than the WR, this also played well into our 3 LBer sets and heavy run defense centric personnel. I could be entirely wrong, but before bringing out the pitch forks on the coaches or players would like to see how the 49ers VS Hawks play out. I personally think there are some ways this team gives them problems and if all goes well we could end up playing them 3 times this year.
Fair play.
We’ll see if OJ Howard can exploit some of those weaknesses in relief of Dissly… 😆
dont be a tease Rob, get enough of that from the wife at home 😉
Hmmm…what do you know??? And why aren’t you telling more?
I don’t know anything, I was just having some fun. Apologies.
I don’t see O.J. Howard becoming a Seattle Seahawk. I believe Tampa Bay Buccaneers Head Coach Bruce “There a New Sheriff in Town!” Arians to be the problem. He is too much of a head strong donkey to do the trade. Just look at some of his recent comments to the press.
Arians on Bucs and trade deadline: “I don’t play for next year. Are you guaranteed next year? I’m not. I’m trying to win every damn game we play. I don’t give a shit about next year. You can write that any way you want. I don’t give a shit about trades. I want to beat Seattle.”
Hee Haw
It’s certainly possible that the old arch nemesis could be a problem. However, is he definitely back next year? And they need a QB to replace Winston. If they’re not picking in the top five they need ammunition to move up. So the GM at least has to think ahead and he’ll make the call.
Classic Arians:
I want to beat Seattle, so I’ll keep my talented TE and not use him…for spite!
Dude’s Kangol is too tight.
Arians sure gets a lot of hate around here about not making deals despite the fact that Tampa Bay has a GM. He’s just the coach
Rob, what do you think of TE Maxx Williams in the off-season? him thriving with kyler makes me think it could translate just as well, if not better with Russell.
Possibly. He was good in college but didn’t do anything in Baltimore.
Rob/anyone,
Is Schottenheimer the best Seahawks’ coaching hire of the past 5 years? Can we credit him with the offense’s moderate success? /smh
Is Ken Norton the Seahawks’ worst coaching hire of the past 5 years? Can we blame Carroll/Norton for the defense’s failure? Related: If speed, intensity, takeaways are the keys to Carroll’s success, why is this unit so slow, pedestrian at best? Have ‘strong hands’ replaced fast feet + twitch?
To succeed, does Pete need to get out of his own way?
Just piss whining/wondering.
I think too much is pointed at Pete. Players are underperforming. Some of the picks haven’t worked. I think it’s a shared responsibility.
I’m worried about what Vita Vea is going to do to Joey Hunt next weekend. That’s a sterner test than the Falcons’ DL.
Grady Jarrett > Vita Vea
Jarrett’s faster but I think Vea is bigger and stronger. Let’s just pray Hunt doesn’t go down too. Who’s our emergency center now with Pocic still out?
I’d have taken a 2020 R3 + 2021 R5 flyer on Leonard Williams. He’s definitely been bust so far, but SEA’s DL need help badly and he’s worth kicking the tires on.
Someone made an interesting point somewhere earlier in this thread. We’ve got holes on this team. We know that. We’re not in the class of the newly emerging 49ers, Saints, and, a bit surprisingly, the Packers. We’ve got to hope that the front 7 starts improving quickly. We’ve got to hope that we can actually get a DB unit in place for the stretch run. We’ve got to hope that we can get RW a little more help for the stretch run also.
But there IS something we can do besides hope, at least from a strategic/game management standpoint. We’ve GOT to be more flexible when it comes to in-game adjustments depending upon what is working and what is not working. We can’t unrealistically hope on imposing our will upon teams in the manner we did during our SB run. Our coaching staff has got to realize that we’re not going to out-talent teams during this upcoming difficult stretch of games.
We’ve got to be a better “scheme team” in the coming weeks. If our LB corp is coming up short in the tacking department, try someone new. If something is not working on offense, try something new, or better scheme our offense for the particular team we’re going to be playing that week. We might need to be more daring on 4th down situations against more talented teams. Things like this and more.
Anyone paying attention knows that it’s a blessing that we’re 6-2 now. Hell, we will probably even make it to 7-2 unless we throw up another stinker at home. But this house of cards can easily come crashing down unless we scheme better, take more chances, introduce the element of surprise more, not make it easy for teams to prepare for us.
I don’t know…just spit-balling here.
I’m worried about next week. Tampa Bay played a lot better in Tennessee than expected. Bruce Arians loves playing in Seattle and always has his teams ready to play us. We’ve been poor at home with a 2-2 record so far. I’d take any kind of win.
Yeah, I’ll take any kind of a win, too. This is a key game for me in the sense of padding our record as much as possible before the next series of games. If our D doesn’t improve in the 2nd half of the season, and our in-game and opponent scheming doesn’t show some more flexibility, I’m entirely aware that our team could have a much uglier 2nd half than first half of the season in terms of wins and losses.
Atlanta & Tampa Bay were must win games, simply to try and create some margin for error down the line.
Tre Flowers expected back this week. Don’t know if that means he’ll be in the starting lineup or not next weekend, however.
Agreed: Yes! Bruce Arians loves playing in Seattle. I will take any kind of win against Tampa Bay. Before I look ahead to the 49er game.