Cigar Thoughts podcast appearance


  1. Rushless pass

    Great listen! Jacson is the only bright spot with fieldgulls

    • AlaskaHawk

      That was a fun podcast to listen to because of the variety of picks highlighted and hearing why someone picked them.

      I’m in agreement that I expect this to be a good draft because of the huge number of picks the Seahawks have. This podcast just made me even more aware that the Seahawks can draft in a number of different ways and improve the team. Even the joking around about picking Bijon Robinson at #5, he would improve the team.

      • Glor

        Just got done listening, and I agree, fun segment – loved hearing some of the different discussions and Totally agree with Rob on his point at the end regarding how the draft goes – it will hopefully be a 10, and regardless of who the hawks pick, hopefully there will be plan that we can see coming out of it.

        That being said, I am with Rob when he says that if Carter is picked, great, lets discuss how we hope he gets managed by the hawks, but I don’t think for a second he is getting picked at 5 by the hawks. JS pulling away from the mic yesterday during that press conference to make sure that Pete talked about the NIL money and how it is changing the way coaches are treating their players, which to me, when reading between the lines went like this: Coaches are having to play with kid gloves now with regards to their more talented players as they are A: making money, and B: able to leave if they want to. As such, I think the subtle message is that someone like Carter got away with all sorts of crap because the coaches were always in recruiting mode to make sure he would stay happy and the result of this, which I think Pete was eluding to, is that we are going to be seeing talent with NIL at the college level not get coached up if the kid isn’t already wired right. Those kids will be like, I’ve already made it, and just go to another school where those coaches are recruiting them and of course giving them the world (like the broncos did for Wilson last year,, and we see how that went)

  2. London Seahawk

    This was excellent.

    Important point at the end from Rob on seeing the positive and upside in various outcomes, and not being aggressively for or against certain picks.

    All you can ask for is a clear strategy from the front office.

    – Even if it’s Wilson or Carter at 5 – you look at the strategy and upside they’re shooting for, and judge the 10 pick class in the round. Those are players with big potential – even if most here think they’re unlikely the pick at 5.

    – Even if they trade down from 5 – that would be a shock given the ‘rare position’ talk – but they might view it as a ‘rare’ position to have so much value in one pick, and a chance to split it into two or three. And whoever they draft with that extra pick – could well be someone worth getting excited about.

    – If it’s Anderson, Richardson, Levis, Stroud… – all great picks at 5 of course and the house favourites here… but the alternatives aren’t villains to be routed against.

    I think that’s a healthy way of looking at it for the fanbase and I hope some of that zen-like vibe will be shared on draft night… but is that likely??

    What Rob does great of course is not get too caught up in one’s fan’s preferences (though clearly we all have faves each year), but be all about projecting what he thinks PCJS will do.. which is much more interesting and relevant.

    Finally – a bit harsh to pee all over Jacson’s first 4 picks LOL. It needed a little sad trombone effect each time you said ‘he’s not for me I’m afraid’ or similar… hahaha

    • UkAlex6674

      That’s key for me – alternatives shouldn’t be viewed as villains,.

      Just because a player isn’t talked about on here or not projected by anyone on here, it’s OK not to be a hater. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are bad or lesser players.

      • Rob Staton

        When does this ever happen though?

        Who is saying, ‘this player is a villain’ simply because maybe I’ve not highlighted them?

        I think a bit too much time is done evaluating a free blog sometimes.

        • Sea Mode

          We’re all just fans on the internet smh.

        • Group Captain Mandrake

          I’m not Alex, so I can’t speak for him, but I think he is saying that it’s the idea of an alternative that is viewed as the villain, not the player. Like how it has to be Carter at #5 and no other alternative makes sense.

      • Mick

        I don’t remember Rob or any of the regulars of this blog hating a player just because nobody talked about him here first.

      • LouCityHawk

        There are some aggressive and weird takes out there regarding people even mentioning Rob or Tony Pauline.

        People get accused of parroting Rob, or not liking a player just because Rob doesn’t like them, etc…

        I am a daily reader of this blog and have been for a long time. I would know immediately if someone was just repeating what was read on SDB. I’ve never seen it. Most of the commenters who do share stuff are more of the even keeled and less combative types.

        I guess it is good for Rob to be considered to have that much influence.

        • GrittyHawk

          Honestly I think that’s the best compliment we can give Rob — that it’s easy to immediately identify readers of this blog as they are informed, rational, and measured in their arguments.

          • Jeff M


        • Malanch

          “I would know immediately if someone was just repeating what was read on SDB…I guess it is good for Rob to be considered to have that much influence.”

          I think SDB is influential, despite its lack of spread compared to MSM channels. I hear little snippets here and there that indicate this, even on 710 ESPN. DIYers on YouTube, such as Hawks Nest, Brendon Nelson, and (that flaming racist) Top Billin’, commonly refer back to the work of one Rob “StaNton”, whether explicitly or implicitly.

          • LouCityHawk

            I don’t know half of those names.

            I don’t get the ire people have, I’m usually in the mold of did Rob steal your birthday or pee in your Cheerios. They usually talk about arrogance or belittling commenters, asked for examples they just attack.

            SDB has a good deal of influence, beyond even the Seahawk fan base, to a certain degree I think people don’t like the discussion focusing on.the actual Seahawks, as much as their fantasy version.

            • Malanch

              “I don’t know half of those names.”

              Yeah, but thought leadership is an interesting thing in this era of ever-increasing mass media consolidation. What are we wee ones to do when everything is controlled by Them? Well, I’ll bet few Americans could tell you anything about the impact John Chapman had on their nascent republic two centuries ago, but Johnny Appleseed remains a legend. His ethos is at the very heart of the truth movement, and so, too, can it serve the lighter side of life, such as here in our trifling world of sports entertainment. Just keep casting those ideas out across the landscape by any means available—including by way of Their apparatus—if only to see but one piece of fruit in the hand of one hungry soul. Shoot, one segment of inane 710 ESPN banter has my belly rumbling right quick, but I know where to go for satiation.

              • LouCityHawk

                First thought, wasn’t John Chapman the Navy Seal, did he typo and mean two decades ago, shit, that was two decades ago, I’m getting old.

                Second thought, I like the banter on Cigar Thoughts, it is my favorite post game listen, I haven’t listened to 710 in forever, I usually listen to KJR when I’m back in the area…maybe that is worse

                • Malanch


                  Little known fact: Johnny Appleseed flunked out of BUD/S training three times—just kept hitting the wall midway through Hell Week—which greatly embittered him about Navy life in general, and ultimately led to his declaring war on…war. Giving himself over to the rapidly expanding peace industrial complex, he rummaged through the want ads and found a posting for a traveling horticulturist gig. He wasn’t too happy about the “must love walking” part, what with his still-raging tibial stress fractures nagging him day and night. And boy, the pay was going to be a real problem! But he figured he could probably work his way into a managerial role with a little time and dedication, and who knows, maybe buy a few acres of land. Not to editorialize or anything, but is that the American entrepreneurial spirit or what? It was a risky career move, yes, but also a great way to put that phenomenal conditioning to good use. Women often commented on his attractive, sleek, well-toned physique—if only he would have done something about those gnarled feet. Yikes. At any rate, his name today rests forever etched in that great book of fables we call ‘US History’—unless Cancel, Inc. should ever get ahold of some retroactively inappropriate comment he may have uttered while sermonizing at an outdoor Baptist convention in far-flung rural Indiana, naturally. In that case: poof!—he gone! But till then…yeah, a lot of people don’t know about “John Chapman” and his past dreams of SEAL glory. Glad you mentioned it!

          • Peter

            Mop fillin’..

            Yeah I was pretty done with him when he intimated that I was performing digital fellatio on richardson because I admired the prospect….

            Because being a grown man making hype videos about young athletes is a fairly run of the mill thing to do,I guess.

            Though. Tbf. I have considered the banality of reaction videos that make up about half of the content on YouTube about all his bad takes.

            • LouCityHawk

              I guess I better look this guy up

              I quit most of social media because I was tired of people saying things they would never say to your face.

              • Peter

                Or…..pass because his whole routine is what you just said.

  3. DW

    Not that the following is entirely reasonable, but I’ve been enjoying using the ESPN sim as I’m sure I’ve worn holes in the PFN due to my constant use. (

    Anthony Richardson QB

    Adetomiwa Adebawore DE

    Julius Brents CB

    Jonathan Mingo WR

    Joe Tippmann C/G

    Sean Tucker RB

    Cameron Young DT

    Chris Rodriguez Jr. RB

    • Trevor

      I would like that draft a lot. High upside atheltes early and address the trenches as well.

    • Qoolio

      It is good to switch between the simulators and get an idea for the different rankings, team needs, trade possibilities, and draft flows. The ESPN simulator had some interesting stats at the end, but it has a few flaws.

      Like how Bryce Young wasn’t picked in the first three rounds of my simulation- seems a touch unlikely…

  4. Trevor

    Really enjoyed the podcast Rob and would be totally on board with those first 5 picks.

  5. PJ in Seattle

    Fun listen. Jacson always sounds like Brock Huard to me. Not in terms of what he says, but their voices are eerily similar.

    Thanks for “Tanner Mckee runs like a giraffe.” That gave me a legit belly laugh.

    • Palatypus

      I believe a year ago Rob said that Daniele Faalele moved like a baby giraffe. I said he had all the size and agility of a manatee.

  6. Gomhawk

    Good listen. Really liked how you guys could civilly disagree and with good humor. The thing that threw me off Carter even before the blog started considering him a no go was that espn fluff piece on him. Half of that was about how he dominates at flag football as a WR against frat bros or whoever lol. I want a DL pushing cars in the off-season, not working on his one handed catches over Joe-blow.

  7. Trevor

    The more I think about I like the idea of going BPA picks 1-3 targeting the highest upside guys regardless of position then go DT with picks 52 and 83

    52 – Benton or Zach Pickens both are potentially 3 down lineman who can play all across the line.

    83- Byron Young or Moro Ojomo ideal size to play base DE in the 3/4 scheme.

    Then add a NT on Day 3 like Cammeron Young who is serially underrated or Keiondre Conurn / Jerod Clark.

    • Brodie

      I like the thought process and players you mention and really hope we can get 2 or 3 of them. I’m a big fan of these guys if we can get them where you have them (I worry they may go even earlier).

      The more I run the sims and looks at scenarios, the more I favor DL early and TE/WR in the mid-rounds. When I take Mayer at #20 for example, there are always TE’s I like at 52 & 83, but not so much for DL, especially if I GM all teams. If you do even a 3 rounder, where you truly try to put who you think is the best player with each team… the well seems to dry up much faster than when the sim picks.

      OG, S, ILB, RB seem to have the best options for day 3. They aren’t great classes, so the drop off from Saftey 3 to Saftey 10 or any of those positions doesn’t seem as precipitous.

      A couple of names that I was liking late, that have been disappearing earlier of late: YaYa DIaby, Demarvion Overshown, Byron Young, Tyler Scott.

      This shows me that I personally have zero grasp on where these guys are actually going to go, because I’m basing my values on media and fan consensus. As a whole, we might be catching up a bit, but we really need to hope that the faith that Pete has been so vocal about having in John is well founded. And that John will indeed have a good feel for where guys are going to go in the actual draft.

    • Brodie

      Here’s a tool that shows where guys have been going in mocks – charted over a few months.

      You can kind of get a feel for how guys are trending as analysts have watched more tape and read some tea leaves/talked to sources.

      I think the link has Diaby and Ojulari. You can see how much one has moved VS BJ staying right around mid-2nd throughout. Diaby has gone from unranked to the 200’s and is now pushing toward the top 100.

      Tyler Scott vs Mingo is interesting as well. Kind of a mirrored chart of momentum , but now they’re both in the 75-85 range.

    • AC

      If you are betting on Benton or Pickens being there at 54 you probably will be disappointed. Either or both might be there, they are both mid to late 2nd guys to me. Or they might not.

      • Brodie

        That’s my fear as well. Benton at #37 (where Rob took him in the Cigar Mock) feels like where you can feel pretty confident you can still get him. I think it’s less than 50/50 he’s there at 54.

        If we’re indeed going cheap at NT, I like Benton as an a guy that you spend up on. He’s one of the best 3T run defenders that is still somewhat dynamic.

  8. Sea Mode


    Lance Zierlein
    ·Apr 19

    My 16 year old just took a Covid test that I administered in the kitchen. After ten minutes the results were in and he came into my bedroom with prayer hands saying “they prayed on my downfall. They wrote me off but I didn’t write back”

  9. dahveed

    Great listen and Jackson has away been a favorite to hear both of you together was Seahawk Splurg (ok that sounds gross)

    and of course you both disagreed but defended your picks defly and graciously.

    Thier was a moment that might have reflected what was quite possibly the conversation in the Vmack
    your point on Taking Carter at 5 is condoning his behaviorand putting gas on a fire (money) and he could not handle that..

    My responce to that is obviously we know the tragedy this young man has been through and having the right team is essential for that support

    . And for the money part my counter balance is CARTER has actual track record of helping pay for fellow walk on student lunches…that also has to be mentioned along with everything alse

    • Big Mike

      It seems you badly want Seattle to draft him and that’s great. Otoh, I hope you’re prepared to be disappointed. I’m trying to be prepared for disappointment if they pass on a QB. It won’t be easy.

      • dahveed

        I view the top 5 pick as a game changer pick.
        my favs at that spot are
        A2 Anderson
        B Richardson
        c Levis
        and to ble clear all could be mighty busts except for Anderson but hey they said that about Aaron curry

    • BK26

      Ok he’s a nice kid. Who can’t get himself on the field because of about 6 issues. And had these huge issues before the wreck that he was involved with.

      I don’t want that massive risk no matter the situation. Get someone that is going to bust their ass.

      Only one week to get this over with….

      • dahveed

        this is the fun part here where we build a team so yeah seems brutal but as you can see some crazy big desisions have to be mader for the Hawks who I might dare to say are at the


    • Peter

      1. Honestly hats off to Pete for maintaining a competitive roster for the majority of his time here.

      2. On the other hand I put picking Carter at 50/50 because one good draft in literally 10 years isn’t a track record.

      3. I really do not care about Carter and tragedy. If I cruise through all the draftable players plus the couple hundred UDFA’s joining rosters next week I will find countless young men who had tragedy in their life and still carried on.

      To that end I am about celebrating those players.

      4. Good for him for buying food for teammates. The NIL money though not a perfect solution is a start in college athletics. Alternately in 2021 UGA athletics reported a brain bending 203 million dollar budget with nearly 170 million (!!!) Expense budget. If UGA can’t get their walk ons some chicken, rice, and broccoli or whatever that’s UGA being Jack asses.

      5. If Carter is the pick I hope he balls out. Nothing he’s done off field is as egregious as other stars in the league. If he ends up being Fletcher cox that will rule.

      6. Draft related….the one thing I don’t want to see is 10 picks turn into 13 for “reasons,” whereby I can spend the next four years doing the tj watt/Buddha baker/creed Humphries face palm aka “collier face.”

      • Peter

        And by reasons I mean you have 52 players out of 90 on the roster. And apparently they can’t budget to sign players to field a dline.

        Add to talk that ( on other channels ) that drafting lower is great because you can “save,” money as opposed to you know…getting talent.

        • dahveed

          I would agree

        • cha

          The 52 rostered players is not something fans should be freaking out about.

          “This is the least amount of players going into the draft ever!”

          Put a cork in it. It’s fine.

          • Peter

            I mean….I don’t care….but I do worry they might be compelled to go quantity over quality.

            • cha

              They have avoided that tack in free agency so far.

              • Peter

                Cha always appreciate you trying to be a beacon in a storm.

                However…..they just don’t have the money to “splurge” on hyders 3.6 million or mayowas 3 plus million.

                • Patrick Toler

                  Right, but the Hyders and Mayowas haven’t really worked out. So they’ve apparently gone a more stars and scrubs type of approach and will count on getting as much out of whatever minimum salary guys they can sign as they would the $3-4M guys the have signed in the past. And honestly, they probably will get a similar return.

                  • Peter

                    Splurge in quotes.

                    Those signings sucked and were basically pointless.

      • Big Mike

        “Collier face”. Man I love that term.

        • Peter


          I mean those two at the podium. That year.

          Said it before but next to the draft board right by the phone on draft night so they can look at it before picking up the line should be a framed 8×12 of js/pc when they made that decision.

    • Mr Drucker in hooterville

      dahveed, are you taking the position that Carter is a victim of his past 2 years? That may be the difference between the Carter Cult and SDB.

      Carter has made terrible decisions, has a bad work ethic and is entitled. He doesn’t put the effort in to be great.
      The only thing he is a victim of is his upbringing (and that must be considered in assessing him) , but everything else is his own doing.

      • dahveed

        I hear you
        but to be clear I never used the term VICTIM.
        He played a part in a terrible tradgedy doubt
        you also mention a Carter Cult…all I can say is this in my mind is Not black and White there is alot of grey and not just in this situation bull all over the league.

        • Mr drucker in hooterville

          You did not use the term victim, but said Carter has been through a lot. Like it just happened to him. Carter has brought on a lit of off field scrutiny upon himself and raised concerns about his lack of effort. Thats all.

        • Palatypus

          Anyone represented by Drew Rosenhaus is a victim.

    • Malanch

      “CARTER has actual track record of helping pay for fellow walk on student lunches…”

      Yes, and Jalen Carter has been credited for that aplenty in the mainstream media. The moment Todd McShay brought up character concerns with Carter, Georgia’s D-line coach went straight to Bruce Feldman to emphasize Carter’s generosity in paying for Weston Wallace’s lunches last year. With the Athletic and Sports Illustrated immediately circulating the account nationwide, and with Georgia players taking to social media to defend their teammate (protecting the team is always the right choice), I reckon few who have bothered to form an opinion on Carter remain unaware of the lunches-for-Wallace thing.

      But this apparent demonstration of magnanimity alone does not counterbalance the rest. It’s but a data point. If a guy is going to be picked in the top five, many more boxes than that must be checked…

      …Heck, JaMarcus Russell was famously sharing, now that I recall. According to former Oakland Raiders Kirk Morrison and Josh McCown, Russell “made it rain” during the talent show the Raiders held for their incoming rookie class in 2007, emptying a “backpack full of cash” for the rest of the team to scoop up. Okay, so maybe this kind of display is not equally reflective of a truly giving nature—fine. How about this: In 2005, Russell housed 20 Hurricane Katrina evacuees in his off-campus apartment, not sleeping for days as he ran “errands that included grocery trips and a 2 a.m. pharmacy run to get medicine”, tasks requiring courage and selflessness given the entire Gulf Coast region was in full-on SHTF mode. Teams had to have factored this as a major character plus during his pre-draft process. But there’s more to character—and “football character”, in particular—than charity alone.

      Now, I’m not suggesting that Russell and Carter are the same guy, nor that the latter is doomed to the former’s NFL fate. What I am claiming is that, in isolation, the combination of being (1) generous and (2) the most talented player in the draft does not seem to help one’s NFL career much. Other qualities are necessary, qualities like drive for greatness and passion for the process. Carter picking up the bill for Wallace is but one entry on a lengthy character dossier, hardly a counterbalance.

      • Malanch

        **That quote was from a September 2005 Associated Press report.

        As an aside, reviewing pre-draft reports on JaMarcus Russell does reveal some potential parallels and points of comparison with Jalen Carter, primarily with respect to work ethic, conditioning, and all-round commitment. And yeah, don’t expect these qualities to change with the transition to the professional ranks. Sigh, if only tens of millions of guaranteed dollars could buy desire.

        …And if you haven’t already enjoyed this little giggle, Google “jamarcus russell blitz packages”.

        • dahveed

          I dont get your point its all peices of a puzzel and if you are in the business of making a judjment on that said person it a piece of that puzzle and serves to be mentioned.

          • dahveed

            Its a part of his character and that is being discussed

          • Malanch

            “I dont get your point.”

            Yes, that’s quite clear.

    • MountainHawker

      If you’ve got speculate to make excuses for a guy, I don’t want him at 5. The team will know more than any of us. Have to trust them on this

    • Rob Staton

      Here’s the thing

      I think it’s nice that he paid for walk-on students to have lunch. It’s very generous.

      Does that make a jot of difference for the draft? No.

      Bad practise habits. Questionable effort. Basically doing what he wants in terms of working out or going to meetings. Not being in proper shape. Scouts questioning his love for the game. A pattern of mistakes leading to legal trouble. I could go on, I’ve spoken to people and know a lot about this subject.

      That is what matters because it is vital in the projection of the player.

      Whether he would come to Seattle and do something generous like buy people lunch, that’s not going to make any difference towards his success and failure in the NFL. What I just listed, that will have a massive impact on his ability to succeed.

      And I do not anticipate the Seahawks taking him in the top-five because it will be a stunning set of events if Pete ‘Always Compete’ Carroll takes a player who did very little ‘competing’ week to week at Georgia.

  10. Big Mike

    Man am I looking forward to listening to this. I have a 5 1/2 hour drive in front of me today and was trying to figure out what I could listen to. Problem solved for a nice chunk. Thanks Rob!

  11. Phil

    I really enjoyed this listen.

    Not because I love your picks. (I’m not personally hoping for Will Levis)

    What I really enjoyed was how both of you exhibit friendliness, knowledge, class, & respect throughout the way you shared your opinions.
    You gave very solid and knowledgeable opinions; and came away sounding like a truly classy guy that would be fun to hang out with while talking football.
    +The producer’s silly takes added a fun bonus. 🙂

    • Rob Staton

      Thank you!

    • Malanch

      …The “rage draft” guy was hilarious!

      • MountainHawker

        At first I thought the schtick was a little corny and by the end I was belly laughing

  12. GermanSeahawkerJS

    As a big Cigar Thoughts fan and an even bigger fan of the blog, I really really needed this crossover podcast. Thank you so much Rob! The episode was everything I could’ve asked for. Rob, could you consider appearing on more different Seahawks podcasts / channels?
    Would definitely bring more reason into the Seahawks media universe.
    Appreciate it!

    • Rob Staton

      I’m open to any invitations

      • Peter

        Oh yeah. Cause I have zero followers but have always wanted to b.s. with you about England’s team. Your favorite college programs. And whether or not I can do spot work for the BBC when the world cup is going to shamble around a giant land mass in a few years.

  13. Robert Las Vegas

    Has anyone read Pete Prisco lately . Anyway he has Will Levis as his number 1 guy. And predicts Tyree Wilson will be a star and better than Anderson or Carter

    • dahveed

      he actually said he would take Cater over either Anderon or Wilson ..

      • dahveed

        But to your point about Levis I agree he is better then people think

      • Peter

        I’d take Carter over Wilson….I just don’t see anything with Wilson that about a half dozen players are already doing better, later. With no testing to speak of I just see a big strong guy ( 23) with no moves, no explosion.

        I think he’ll be a team favorite somewhere. Ala poona ford. Solid.

        I know it’s apples to flat head screwdrivers but Carlos Dunlap was a carbon copy size player. Actually fairly quick. Better production. Better conference. I think slightly younger and in his draft went about a round and a half later.

        I just do not get it with Wilson.

        With Carter…’s a massive,massive gamble. But it’s pretty clear he has some innate skills and supreme positional dline value if you could ever figure out how to unlock that.

        • TatupuTime

          To be fair, Wilson still has a freakish body in a league that values freaks. Dunlap is a pretty good body comparison for Wilson, except Wilson’s arms are still a full inch longer than Dunlaps. Wilson has longer arms than a guy like Calais Campbell. I may tell my wife that an inch here or there doesn’t make any difference, but it makes a huge difference in the NFL. Half an inch arm difference has been the difference between draftable/not draftable for the Seahawks in a number of positions. Wilson’s punch and reach is pretty certainly going to be better than every OL he goes up against.

          There isn’t another player in this draft with the combination of length and strength that Wilson has. I don’t want the Seahawks to draft him at 5, but I think his body type is the reason he’s in the top-10 conversation over guys later with better get off and production.

          • Peter


            All we know is his size.

            Ade ade is an actual freak testing wise. And there are reports about him being brutally strong in the weight room. The explosive numbers bear that out.

            Wilson gets into very well with olinemen. But has zero plan. He’s a willing tackler. Stout when teams go straight after him. I don’t see an always on motor.

            I know teams like size freaks. I really do. I think it just speaks more to the oervieved down year at dline.

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      If anyone has documented proof that Prisco has ever been correct about ANYTHING, I’d be shocked. Prisco is Skip Bayless, without the catheter.

      • Troy

        This….was a forever Russell Wilson critic – from draft day onwards.

      • PJ in Seattle

        Reading this comment made milk shoot out of my nose. And I wasn’t even drinking milk.

  14. Patrick Toler

    This was a really great listen. As others have said, the tone of respectful disagreement was a very refreshing break from the current draft conversation in various parts of the Seahawks fandom. I really appreciate what you said about your approach if the draft doesn’t go how you expect or want. Try to understand the reasoning and analyze it objectively.

  15. London Seahawk

    Maybe I’m overthinking, but I think this from JS yesterday could imply Carter is in play:

    Schneider said of evaluating players with perceived character issues that “every situation is completely different’’ saying he learned early in his career that “you can never say this is the way it is and this is how we are going to move forward. I think you can back yourself into a corner.’’

    That to me *could* mean that a high character, loves football approach to drafting could become dogmatic and you have to be open to breaking your own rules if opportunity knocks.

    Anyone else get that reading or just me?

    • Patrick Toler

      I mean you could apply “every situation is completely different” to make an argument for drafting any player. I don’t think they will draft Carter for the reasons that Rob and others have laid out, but I am keeping an open mind. In the end we are making educated guesses based on the (limited compared to the team) information we have about him, and the team’s comments and past behavior. So if they decide that his particular situation is one they are okay with it will surprise but not shock me.

      They did speak specifically about how in the past few years they have identified guys who fit as Seahawks and believe that has really worked for him. It’s hard to see how Carter fits that.

      • London Seahawk

        Agree with all that. I think surprise but not shock is right at this stage…

      • dahveed

        Cangrats Patrick I think you summed this up masterfully well done not easy to do!

    • London Seahawk

      LOL I’ve just seen this from the same presser – which seems to lean the other way…

      GM John Schneider said that when he looks back on his successful drafts a common theme has been going a bit beyond the film and “knowing who the person is and trying not to push players based on specific needs.”

      I think one things for sure is that they’ll have dug deep into this guy and his issues. McDowell will have scared them into digging much deeper than before and really interrogating this guy’s character. Getting to the bottom of these criticisms on commitment in training and conditioning.
      If they do pick him, it’ll be because they think they can make it work.
      If they don’t, we’ll know it the flags were enough to let someone else take the risk…

      We’ll soon see..

      • Patrick Toler

        Yeah, which is why if they do end up taking him I will feel slightly better about his chances (though will still be nervous).

    • PJ in Seattle

      You could certainly interpret it that way. I don’t see a problem with keeping an open mind and not writing off prospects because they don’t 100% fit your dogmatic mold. Calijah Kancey’s size and arm length, for example. Coby Bryant and Poone Ford are two other examples of guys who don’t check the typical boxes for Seattle, but who the team ultimately took a chance on.

      I think grit and character are non-negotiables though. JS said as much in the same presser – soemthing to the effect of ‘The film is what it is. You have to understand the player and the person and not try to force a player to fit a need.’

      If Jalen Carter has convinced them that he actually has a love of football and a fire in his belly, they may draft him. I just doubt it so highly. Rob’s point about what’s going to happen after mini camp when he has 30M in his bank account? You can’t put him under personal guard, and the NFL doesn’t allow it if even you wanted to try. What if he shows up to camp looking like he did at his Pro Day, or worse? You have just become the laughingstock of the league as a GM.

    • Glor

      I heard and thought the same thing, but I think it would only be a decision if he were available later in R1 and not with our 5

  16. PJ in Seattle

    I had a dream last night of John Schneider on the phone with Jalen Carter next Thursday, telling him he’s about to become a Seahawk, and he said:

    “Now, remember what we talked about.”

    I woke up in a cold sweat.

    • seahawker

      Remind me who he said this to?

    • ShowMeYourHawk

      That JS phrase is better known as the “what hell hath we wrought” around the VMAC.

  17. Trevor

    For all the talk of Houston not taking a QB and this QB class not being as good as hyped still think QBs go 1-4 with a week to go before the draft and I think JS does as well. That’s why Anderson was brought in last minute.

    My prediction wirh a week to go.

    #1 Panthers – Young
    #2 Texans – Richarson
    #3 Raiders (Trade)- Stroud
    #4 Colts – Levis
    #5 Seahawks – Anderson
    #6 Lions – Witherspoon
    #7 Cardinals – Wilson
    #8 Falcons – Bijan Robinson
    #9 Bears – Paris Johnson Jr
    #10 Eagles – Jalen Carter

    #20 Hawks trade to 31 with KC who select LT Anton Harrison and give up #63

    Hawks Draft
    #5 Will Anderson – Hawks get thier new leader on defense. Not a QB but this is a home run pick IMO. Have never heard Nick Sanan talk more glowingly about a prospect and that means something.

    #31 JMS – Not a fan of Center so early but I think Rob is right and where there is smoke thier is ussually fire. He is a real competitor and high character guy who should lock down that spot for the next decade.

    #37 Josh Downs- He screams Seahawk and will be the best WR3 in the league. Another ultra high character player.

    #40 Hawks trade #53 Julius Brents- High character player who look like he was built to play CB for the Hawks

    #63 Zach Pickens – A highly atheltic underrated DT who can play all along the DL.

    #83 Byron Young – Rob has already talked about him a ton.

    #123 Dorian William – One of favorite players in the draft. Another physical and high character player who can learn behind Bobby and step in next season regardless of what happens with Brooks.

    #151 Chase Brown – Hawks need to add an RB or two and love this Canadian kid.

    #154 Zach Kuntz- Absolute freak athelte that needs a year to really learn to play TE.

    #198 Calvin Avery – Hawks add a big run stuffing NT

    #237 Jordan Howden – Atletic Safety who will be a solid special teams player.

    This would be an A+ draft for the Hawks in my opinion. Completely re-building the DL and adding high character players all over the roster.

    • Peter

      Really hope the Texans don’t take Richardson.

      If he doesn’t go one so some of us get paid and we can’t get him I hope indy does a switcheroo and takes him.

      It could be a total fiasco in Houston with a defensive head coach and the “niners,” system with what is objectively a terrible team all over that place.

    • PJ in Seattle

      I’d be bummed to have missed out one of the QBs, but I would be very happy with this group of players.

      • Wilson502

        Not coming out of the RW trade with a QBoTF just completely devalues the trade for me. Massive let down.

        • PJ in Seattle

          Agree – it would take a fair bit of shine off of what looks to be one of the most lopsided swaps in history.

          But if the gods conspire against you and those QBs all go 1-4, Will Anderson is clearly the pick. That is a damn good consolation prize and, in the short term, might appear to be the most impactful of the Top 5 picks. I can live with that.

          • Wilson502

            Then they should “pay the iron price” and move up. Otherwise, what the hell was the point in bringing in Greg Olsen as QB coach and structuring Geno’s deal the way they did?

            • LouCityHawk

              I agree with the move up, but I don’t think anything will happen for a bit.

              Assume that Young to Carolina leaks and is confirmed today.

              Market forces are depleting the Cards pick value

              1. It is presumed you will pick between only Levis or Richardson.

              2. Arizona is viewed as desperate.

              3. SEA and DET both are ‘locked’ into defense.

              Texans pick value is higher, but the Texans ideal deal might be with the Seahawks *after* another team trades into 3. You still get Anderson that way. The danger with the massive trade downs, is that even with a catalog of high picks, you are forestalling your competitive window.

              IF the Texans move before the Cards, they may lose out on their preferred player in Anderson. Also, whatever AZ trades for will reset the market following CAR’s trade up.

              5, 37 does it, maybe you go a bit richer and throw in a 2024 4th. The Seahawks may already have this deal in place if the Cards trade out.

              • Wilson502

                Being ‘locked’ into defense with an once in a generation pick in a top heavy QB class is mind bogglingly stupid IMHO.

                • LouCityHawk

                  I don’t think DET or SEA are locked into defense.

                  They’ve done a great job convincing the league and National media they are.

                  Absent trades, I think the Hawks could be deciding between Stroud and Richardson. Detroit isn’t passing on one of those.

                  • Crosljam

                    Have they though? Comments after the playoffs yes when defeat is still raw but since then not so much. In fact the opposite with the qb pro days and selfies and all the perceived smokescreen. I think the national media has looked at the DL holes Geno’s season above expectations and wrote the story themselves.

        • Trevor

          I agree completely that QB should be option 1 at #5 but I can’t see them trading up and if all four are off the board then I have no interest in Hooker at any point in the draft.

  18. dahveed

    I would be very happy with that draft Trevor ~Two fist pumps in the air (like how Rob reacted to Abe lucas)

    • Trevor

      Thanks and I remember that reaction by Rob I think a lot of us felt the same way after the Lucas pick. There are some guys in this draft who just seem destined to be Hawks as well. Hoping to see a double fist pump or two next weekend as well.

      • dahveed

        Or a hole in the wall if they take one of my favorite picks Carter !

  19. Jabroni-DC

    Fun listen!

    Gotta agree with the 9.5-10 predicted satisfaction of this upcoming draft class. It just feels like the potential to lay a great foundation for the next 5-10 years is at hand. You’ve covered so many players this year that I’ll be excited from the start of round 1 through the end of the udfa signing period due to the sheer volume of recognizable names & the fact that many of them will play quickly due to great need. No doubt that having loads of picks makes things way more enjoyable but having been visiting the site for well over a decade now, this has been your best season ever. Thanks for the crazy effort & passion!

  20. Mr drucker in hooterville

    Great show. I think you made them think.

  21. LouCityHawk

    An underrated thing that PCJS talked about at their presser is how JS has scouts pretend to be the other teams, and that there is some eeriness to how accurate those predictions are….

    It is really tough from a fan’s perspective to put yourself in the head of your own team, much less a team that you don’t regularly play or think about.

    For awhile I have felt that the situation in Houston would be the one to add the most volatility to the draft.

    My plan A would be to go 2. Anderson and 3. Trade up for reasonable comp and take Carter. If I am Ryans, Carter would be the sort of project I’d want.

    Plan B would be to take Anderson and sit at 12.

    Plan C would be to field calls about a trade up to 1.2, something like the Trey Lance deal

    It gets tough though as you go through and really try to think about another teams roster, scheme, etc…

  22. Sea Mode

    Knowing 25/30 VMAC visitors is a pretty good year as far as that goes.

    Added Ole Miss RB Zach Evans virtual meeting as well yesterday plus a couple more local visitors.

    • Brodief

      Thanks again for keeping this going. A great resource now and fun to look back at just how often these guys end up Hawks.

      2017 – 8 players with 3 that came over later
      2018 – 8 players with 3 that came over later
      2019 – 9 players with 3 ” ”
      2020 – 5 players
      2021 – No Data – aahhh! (only had the 3 picks – Thanks Jamal)
      2022 – 8 players with 3 ….
      2023 – TBD, but a longer list than previous years. High likelihood that we end up with 8+ guys from this list.

    • Brodie

      Thanks again for keeping this going. A great resource now and fun to look back at just how often these guys end up Hawks.
      2017 – 8 players with 3 that came over later
      2018 – 8 players with 3 that came over later
      2019 – 9 players with 3 ” ”
      2020 – 5 players
      2021 – No Data – aahhh! (only had the 3 picks – Thanks Jamal)
      2022 – 8 players with 3 ….
      2023 – TBD, but a longer list than previous years. High likelihood that we end up with 8+ guys from this list.

      Please feel free to delete the other post Rob

      • Sea Mode

        2021 – No Data – aahhh!

        That year due to COVID there were no visits, meetings, etc. And every team spoke to about every prospect virtually, so it really didn’t seem worth noting and nobody was reporting them anyways for that reason.

        • Brodie

          Makes sense.

    • cha

      Would you consider “had a call with Seahawks” worthy of updating Ty Okada?

      • Brodie

        I remember Dane Brugler mentioning that he was the last guy to get a write-up in his big Draft novella – “The Beast”. In his last mock, he had him in round 7 to SF. Here’s the blurb…

        247. San Francisco 49ers: Ty Okada, S, Montana State
        Okada has been one of the late risers in the process, and he absolutely blew up his pro-day testing. A nickel safety who can fill multiple roles, he has heard from numerous NFL teams, including the 49ers.

      • Sea Mode

        Absolutely, that’s a virtual. Thanks.

  23. Quinn

    Rob. I don’t get Jacson’s fascination with JSN. Not only was he a slot guy from an easy system, but people crowning him as the next Jamarr Chase. Seahawks also never take 4.5 guys on the first two days of the draft. And to add on top of it all, are people not aware that the Seahawks do not take receivers in round 1? Seems absolutely baffling to me.

    • PJ in Seattle

      There are a lot of parallels between JSN and Jalen Carter in my eyes.

      Both have flashed as underclassmen with some gamewrecking performances.
      Both benefitted from playing on powerhouse, perennial CFB Playoff teams loaded with top recruits.
      Both are coming off of down years where they were unable or unwilling to make much of an impact when their teams were vying for a championship.
      Both are regarded by many as the top players at their position in this draft.
      Both will have me feeling gut-punched if we take them in the first round

      • Spectator

        Carters issues arent even what you are stating. You could put a ton of players into that square hole. Alot on Bama, Ohio State, or Georgia. Same could be said about Anderson, Young, Stroud. JSN had an injured hamstring all season, not like he just said “eh ill just sit out”.

        • PJ in Seattle

          Not meant to be a summary of Carter’s issues, but there’s some comparison between the two there in those ways I mentioned. I can’t think of any other players in this draft class who share all those descriptions, primarily those who are typically seen as #1 prospects at their position.

          Anderson, Young, and Stroud are big time program talents as you note but they all played their assess off last season. Injuries can strike anyone and no one but JSN knows whether he could have helped his team last year. Point is, he didn’t or couldn’t. Carter played but also was hurt and was not the gamewrecker he appeared to be his sophomore year. He got totally erased in some big time games. That’s troubling for a top 10 pick.

          Not saying JSN is a scrub – I think he will have a fine career in the NFL. The opportunity cost is too high at #20 in my opinion. There are 4 or 5 other receivers I think could fit just as well in our offense who maybe don’t have the same potential JSN does but also dont have the nagging hammy history – all of whom can be had Day Two on.

    • LouCityHawk

      Not Rob, but

      JSN is on my DO NOT WANT list. Sitting out like he did is something I’m not cool with at all, it is the antithesis of my own code, and the idea of “Always Compete”

      Say. Which to you like better:

      One season: 95 Recs, 1606 yards, 9 TD – not a returner

      One season: 110 Recs, 1361 yards, 12 TD – career: 77PR 620 PRY 1 PRTD, 30KR 713KRY 1 KRTD

      Player 1 garnered 30 receptions, 587 yards and 4 TDs in two games.

      Player 2 spread out his production on a consistent basis. His two top games account for 25 receptions, 302 yards and 1 TD

      • Spectator

        Being injured is something you arent cool with? Dude had a hamstring injury and tried to push it an come back multiple times. If that is your knock on him, then im not sure how you like any player. Just a dumb take. Im starting to not understand the infatuation with attacking JSN. I get the fact he was a slot alot and isnt the fastest, so probably off the table for Hawks, but acting as though he is a scrub is just silly.

        • LouCityHawk

          Did I suggest he is a scrub? Saying someone isn’t going to light the world on fire is not the same as calling them a scrub.

          I don’t know where you got your narrative from, but JSN sat to preserve himself for his career, and probably draft status. I understand the decision. I understand when a guy like Thibadeaux talks about his brand too. I respect Thibs for being honest.

          That doesn’t mean I would want either player on my team.

          I’m tired of the excuses people make for JSN and Carter. Own it, don’t feed me some line, the simplest answer is usually the right one.

          If his hamstring injury was really that severe, then I’ve got a whole new raft of questions about his durability, pain tolerance, and would want to know what he did to make a recovery before the combine, etc…

          • Malanch

            Well said, LouCity.

            …But the next time someone hits you with a straw man argument, just give them a “Straw Man Fail” response and move on. That’s all you need. If people aren’t going to respond to your actual words, there’s no sense wasting time on them.

        • LouCityHawk

          Player 2 is Charlie Jones btw, also not a scrub.

          • PJ in Seattle

            I like the cut of Mr. Jones’s jib.

    • Patrick Toler

      I am a big JSN fan, which I know is a minority on this blog. The knocks on him are that he played almost exclusively in the slot and lacks legit long speed.

      As to whether he can play outside, he has elite quickness and is a technician as a route runner (which makes me think he can be a technician with his releases). Watch his long catch and run against Penn State from 2021 – Tariq Castro Fields (who is on the commanders) comes to press him and JSN immediately shakes him for a clean win at the line of scrimmage. I think this is representative of how he can consistently beat press, with quickness and technique (ala Doug Baldwin). He is not that small either at 6-1 296.

      As for the lack of long speed, there have been many, many great receivers who lacked great long speed but are/were special in other areas. JSN’s measured 3 cone and short shuttle are elite of the elite and I think the film backs that up. He will get open all the time, and he is tough and has good hands and tracks the ball well.

      I think he is a perfect short term (slot receiver running underneath while DK and Tyler threaten deep) and long term (Tyler replacement and compliment to DK) fit for Seattle. Seattle has shown a willingness to draft players who buck previous trends if they like them enough and I think they will like him, but he probably goes in the teens, so I would be surprised if we end up with him.

      • LouCityHawk

        I’m forever defending myself for not wanting JSN, so I think you are safely in the majority of fans.

        At 296, should we consider him for DL though?

        I agree with you that JSN probably doesn’t make it to 20, and also that elite long speed is not a perquisite for Y/Z receivers.

        Take for example this profile

        6’2”, 204lbs, 4.62 40(bet he wished he had the Buckeyes track), 6.75 3 cone, 4.08 twenty…

        Curious who you would comp JSN to? He reminds me of Brandon Sokely, which isn’t actually a dog against him.

        • Patrick Toler

          Haha I guess my fingers think he was on the Bryce Young combine weight plan. JSN evokes strong feelings apparently – you will feel like you are needing to defend your position regardless of which end of the spectrum you are on.

          I think Edelman, Kupp, and Keenan Allen are are reasonable comps (not necessarily in terms of expected production, but in style).

          • LouCityHawk

            Those were Krupp’s combine numbers, fyi, he is plenty fast.

            People get worked up. I like football, played it, engage with it, for enjoyment.

            I really like Levis, people say he should be an UDFA, I just laugh with it.

            I don’t like JSN, he could blow up bigger than any receiver. Part of the fun of comparing him to Brandon Stokely is making people reconsider if Brandon Stokely should be a punch line. He does remind me of Stokely though.

            I hated the Cross pick, whoops.

            I cashed in all my Allen bets and my wife and I are for free at 12 different top steakhouses with friends who couldn’t believe I would trade Russ for him straight up in the draft.

  24. Trevor

    Hard to take much away from the top 30 visits but a couple of things I think that I think 🙂

    – The Hawks will take a Edge and have identified options at each spot in the draft ( Anderson early, McDonald 20-37, Young 53-83, YaYa Diaby 123-152, Nick Herbig154-200

    -Hawks will take an Illinois defender (Witherspoon, Brown, Martin and Avery) having brought 3 guys in for a visit.

    – Hawks will look to add a NT (Avery, Cooper) Safety (Robinson, Howden,Jerrick Reed) and Interior OL (Bradford, McFadden, Daniels) on Day #3 having spent a ton of visits on those three spots.

    • Volume12

      Keep an eye on Mizsou EDGE Isaiah McGuire day 3 too. Didnt have a great combine but his tape is

      • Trevor

        Thanks will check him out.

      • Old but Slow

        Rob has McGuire as a 3d rounder in his latest board.

    • Brodie

      One more – They are gonna be burning up the phone lines for UDFA’s this year.

      That was one of my takeaways from the presser. Getting guys in, showing them the culture, making a good impression… Then you look at the visitor list and can see some of these guys not getting their names called.

      I’m sure the fact that we have something like 40 open roster spots isn’t lost on guys who are just looking for their best shot to make a team.

      • Sea Mode

        Absolutely will be a huge part of it this year and they made a point of highlighting it again like they used to back in the “always compete” days.

  25. Zane

    Based on what I’ve read here I thought Carter had a disaster level performance against OSU, but rewatching the highlights I was surprised by how many snaps he played and how disruptive he was as a pass rusher. Not saying his conditioning isn’t an issue, but he looked much better than I expected.

    • Rob4q

      I thought Wypler handled Carter pretty well when they were matched up. And Carter looked truly gassed at times…

    • AlaskaHawk

      Every decent player looks good in highlights. Where was Carter in the BCS series? Mostly gasping for breath on the sidelines.

  26. jed

    It’s always great when you two share your conversation. I appreciate that you have different views, but neither of you are dogmatic when it comes to you preferences.

    The part about Simpson was a good example. Jacson was willing to take the athletic upside and trust coaches to get him to be a better player, where Rob was more nervous about that. It was a good segment where you could disagree, but not be jerks about it.

    I was a bigger fan of your mock than Jacson’s because I want that long term QB. But, I think the last couple minutes of the podcast is the big thing for me. Have a solid plan and execute it.

    • TatupuTime

      What’s funny to me is that Jacson’s draft would get the highest draft grade from the national media. Rob’s draft is getting a C range grade (or worse) from the meaningless post draft grade from national media. Rob’s is definitely the best draft class to me though.

      Still think Dane Bugler’s draft haul for the Seahawks is comically horrendous and significantly worse than Jacson’s.

      • Malanch

        Well, look at the national draft grades for the Seahawks’ 2022 haul—the ones given immediately after the draft, not the ones given after the 2022 season—and that’s sufficient context for their general worth.

        I mean, Pete Prisco, for instance…good freakin’ gawd. He gave the Hawks a bad grade because he didn’t understand their draft strategy, but shouldn’t he have given himself a bad grade for that? Why is his own ignorance the Seahawks’ shortcoming? Truly, this is some epic logic here: “We keep hearing how they’re going to try and evolve the offense a little bit, and become more of a pass offense, and what do they do? They take a bunch of offensive linemen and a running back…I don’t get that.” Seriously, what in the holy **** is that?

  27. geoff u

    I know we need defensive players, but most times I do a mock simulator it’s usually the high value offensive players that are there. Let’s just say screw the defense and build an unstoppable #1 offense.

    • Wilson502

      That’s how Mahomes got his rings. Building some top flight defense is overrated AF. Elite QB play and time of possession is what reigns supreme. Mahomes got 2 rings with below average defenses.

      • geoff u

        You do need pass rushers though, or at least it helps. Get the lead, make the other team play catch up, and get after their quarterback to keep them from doing so. I think that’s the recipe for success in the modern NFL.

        • Wilson502

          Sure, you need pass rushers, but with how this coaching staff has utilized them, I don’t see the value on passing on a QB vs a non elite OLB prospect. Will McDonald arguably has more upside than Anderson and could be had later in the draft.

          • geoff u

            I don’t see an elite pass rusher at #5, I’m all in on franchise quarterback there. Someone like Ade or McDonald would be great for the other picks, but BPA wins out. Plus we do have quite a few edge players as is. Meyer at 20 is a better option, if there. And Mingo or Downs I like more than most pass rushers and most picks. If the offense talent is there, I think you gotta go for it.

            • Wilson502

              I agree, and even Rob has suggested that Anderson is not an elite prospect either, and much of his production came from unblocked scenarios. IMO, this shouldn’t even be a damn debate, it should be QB or bust and it’s not even close. Anderson just doesn’t change this teams trajectory like a potential QBoTF would.

          • Brodie

            I see this comment a lot, so it’s not just aimed at you. I think it should be pointed out though.

            Will McDonald may be the bendiest EDGE out there and even best edge rusher in the draft. He doesn’t do a lot of the things that Anderson does so well though. He’s under 240 lbs and can’t hold a candle to Anderson’s rush defense. They rarely asked him to play in space, he can’t really set the edge. You can’t just put him outside the tackle and have him rush every down. Teams will run right at him and that’s his biggest weakness.

            I really like McDonald but he has some pretty glaring holes in his game that Will Anderson does not. Anderson is versatile and can do anything you ask him to. McDonald is a speed rusher and an undersized one at that.

        • Wilson502

          If u can’t get the lead in the first place then pass rushers are a moot point.

    • Mr Drucker in hooterville

      Clint Hurtt loves this perspective. Lower that bar!

      • geoff u

        Can it get lower? I mean, may as well built an offense since the defense is gonna suck anyway.

    • Malanch

      “Most times I do a mock simulator it’s usually the high value offensive players that are there.” –geoff u

      I’ve run into the same exact phenomenon on multiple simulators. The Hawks’ board won’t necessarily indicate the same talent shelves, but there is probably some overlap. If any of their current draft slots happens to line up with superior talent on the offensive side of the ball but they insist on plugging immediate defensive holes, then they must trade down from that slot. It’s been awhile since John Schneider has been able to parlay trade-downs into impact selections, hasn’t it?

  28. Volume12

    What was Rashaad Penny’s explosive run rate % in college? K9 was 8%. The guys this year that hit that clip or right around it?

    TCU HB Kendre Miller
    Tulane HB Tyjae Spears
    A& M HB Devon Achane
    Texas HB Bijan Robinson (7.7%)
    Bama HB Jahmyr Gibbs (7.2%)

    • London Seahawk

      I thought with Ken W being so explosive maybe we’d be looking for more of a Chris Carson type this time around.
      Someone to take some short yardage touches away from Ken so we can keep him fresh, someone to punch in a TD.
      TBH, we could maybe do with x2 running backs!

      • Awm

        Chris Rodriguez

      • Volume12

        Its possible that’s exactly what they’re looking for, but they love that type of stuff when it comes to RBs

      • TatupuTime

        They definitely need a hammer and a guy that can just pound the rock between the tackles when you need 1-3 dirty yards. There are a number of mid round guys that fit the bill there (including Chris Rodriguez). Hit the hole hard and either break contact or at a minimum fall forward most of the time. Kenneth Walker is more of a home run hitter (and a good one at that). I’d be surprised if they didn’t draft 2 RBs. They need about 4 more running backs between now and camp.

        • London Seahawk

          Cheers guys – am gonna look out for Chris Rodriguez.

    • Trevor

      Really like Miller a lot!

      • Volume12

        Me too. Broke a ton of tackles and really patient. Sees the field well.

    • Brodie

      Do you know what Deuce Vaughn’s was?

      Would be interesting to see a combined explosive ‘touch’ rate that included receiving. Would bump Gibbs to the top, I’d guess, with Vaughn close behind.

      • Volume12

        I dont. That was explosive run rate % for their collegiate careers too. I’m sure it’s different based off of last season.

        E. Carolina HB Keaton Mitchell is probably towards the top. Had the most runs of 10+ yards last season too. Explains why Seattle met w/ him

        • Brodie

          He and Denneric Prince (Tulsa) had great times at the combine. I tried to watch them both, but man it’s hard to find decent tape on some of these small school guys.

          Prince doesn’t have much wiggle but he does like to finish his runs looking for someone to hit. Mitchell is a lot more of a juker who can make guys look downright silly.

          I’ve been a big fan of taking Mitchell with one of those 151/154 picks and then assuming Tavion Thomas or Chris Rodriguez as the bruiser, goalline back as last pick or UDFA. I really like Deuce Vaughn as well, but I can’t seem to rally much support for the little guy.

    • Sea Mode

      Gimme Gibbs in R2

  29. samprassultanofswat

    Rob: Thanks for the podcast

    I am sure that when John Schneider/Pete Carroll interviewed Jalen Carter probably one of the first questions that was asked was: As you probably know Malik McDowell had nearly career ending accident. Malik McDowell never played a down for the Seattle Seahawks. What are your plans after you are drafted? What are your plans after the mini-camp? There is three months between the mini-camp and training camp. What does Jalen Carter plan to do? Do you plan on hiring a personal trainer? If so who do you have in mind? How many hours a week do you plan on training before training camp opens?

    There are many other questions to ask Jalen Carter. But these are just a few of the questions.

    BTW: When Jalen Carter did his interview (I believe it was on HBO) there is no doubt that he was coached.

    • Palatypus

      “Do you plan on hiring a personal trainer? If so who do you have in mind?”

      Joel Seedman.

      • Glor

        And that’s the issue, dude has supposedly earned over 1mil in nil.. he should already have a PT

  30. cha

    Florio & Simms on Seahawks’ Draft Needs

    Florio is at least consistent. He thinks the Seahawks have been smokescreening the QB situation because that would be uncomfortable for Geno Smith. Calls all the selfies ‘malarkey’ and says the buzz about taking a QB has quieted so that means it’s not happening.

    Also wants Seahawks to trade down to get more lottery tickets. Carter or trade down from 5.

    Simms calls Jones ‘one of the prize possessions of free agency’ which is nice.

    • Peter

      Well I wouldn’t want Geno uncomfortable.

      • Malanch

        Exactly. Bringing legit competition into a position group is bad for morale.

  31. samprassultanofswat

    Ideal (and realistic) Seahawk mock draft.

    5 Anthony Richardson

    2o. Choice of
    a) Ade Ade
    b) Will McDonald
    c) Calijah Kancey

    37. Joe Tippmann

    52. Choice of
    a) Zaach Pickens
    b) Keeanu Benton

    83. Choice of
    a) Zach Charbonnet
    b) Josh Downs/Jonathan Mingo

    83rd pick could also be a Tight-End

    Couple of other players I am intrigued with are Jack Campbell and Steve Avila

    • Trevor

      Sign me up.

    • Ashish

      100% agree

    • Awm

      Sign me up! This would be the A++ Draft

    • London Seahawk

      Love it.

      Center at 20 is too rich for me so this is the kind of range I’m hoping they go for C.

  32. Troy

    Very fun listen, and was great to hear the banter and discussion on all of the players involved.

  33. Dregur

    Ringer did a great video of why Richardson is much more NFL ready than a lot of people assume, showing his advaned processing, and some of why there is more to his completion rate than “He’s just inaccurate” (which is still true, but there are a lot of caveats to that):

    • London Seahawk

      Will take a look!

      Some interesting stats coming out on AR’s ability to evade sacks too today.

    • GrittyHawk

      Great watch! Between this and Waldman’s analysis I am really, really, ridiculously bullish on AR. So many nuances of the position are not captured by the mainstream talking heads who likely aren’t even watching the tape, and too many casual draft fans just parrot meaningless statistics. Like, if Zach Wilson can have damn near an 80% completion rate in college, then maybe it’s time we all reevaluate what’s actually important.

    • London Seahawk

      Yeah that vid is awesome

  34. Troy

    Getting the vibes that Stroud might actually be in play for 5. In case anyone wanted to get some perspective on him – given this Brady Quinn gaffe in the news; see below. He certainly feels like a Carroll guy 100%

    BACKGROUND: Coleridge Bernard “C.J.” Stroud IV, the youngest of four children, grew up in the Inland Empire region of Southern California, about an hour east of Los Angeles. He was introduced to sports, mainly basketball and football, at age 5 by his father (Coleridge III). Stroud was a quarterback throughout youth football (won two youth-league titles) and middle school, playing for the Pomona Steelers in Snoop Dogg’s football league. When he was age 13 in April of 2015, his family faced intense adversity after his father was arrested on charges of carjacking, kidnapping, robbery and misdemeanor sexual battery. He pleaded guilty and is currently serving a 38-year sentence at Folsom State Prison. He previously had been convicted of felony drug possession and receiving stolen property in 1989, receiving stolen property in 1991 and armed robbery and second-degree robbery in 1992. C.J.’s mother (Kimberly) filed for divorce in 2012. With his father in prison and not eligible for parole until 2040, Stroud’s family has faced numerous financial challenges and often moved around, including living in a small apartment above the storage facility in Upland, Calif. where Kimberly worked. Stroud attended Rancho Cucamonga High School, where he played quarterback on varsity all four years, serving as the backup as a freshman and sophomore (348 passing yards and 5 touchdowns combined over his first two seasons). He became the starter as a junior. Despite the team starting 0-4, it finished 7-1 over the final eight games as Stroud posted 2,343 passing yards, 19 touchdowns and 6 interceptions. As a senior, Stroud led Rancho Cucamonga to a 9-4 record and the state playoff semifinals. He finished his final season with 65.9 percent completions, 3,878 passing yards, 47 passing touchdowns and 9 interceptions, adding 4 rushing touchdowns to earn U.S. Army All-America honors. Stroud, who grew up participating in AAU tournaments around the country, also lettered in basketball (his first love) and was Rancho Cucamonga’s starting shooting guard.
    A four-star recruit, Stroud was the No. 2 pro-style quarterback in the 2020 recruiting class and the No. 4 recruit in California (behind Bryce Young, Justin Flowe and D.J. Uiagalelei). He was ranked as the No. 42 overall recruit nationally. Stroud didn’t grow up with a quarterback coach or other training resources and faced a much slower recruitment process than his peers, especially with minimal tape from his first two years of high school. He didn’t receive any scholarship offers until after his junior season. Colorado was his first offer, followed by several other Mountain West (Boise State) and Pac-12 (Cal, Oregon State, Washington State) schools. The summer before his senior year, Stroud attended multiple Elite 11 recruiting camps but was often overlooked until the Opening Oakland Regional, which earned him an invitation to The Opening in Frisco, Texas in July 2019. There, he earned MVP honors and led his team to the 7-on-7 championship. It was at that event where he bonded with Julian Fleming and Jaxon Smith-Njigba, two highly-ranked receivers who were committed to Ohio State. They recommended Stroud to the Buckeyes’ coaching staff and Ohio State reached out with an offer a few months later. Stroud skyrocketed up the recruiting rankings and added offers from Georgia, Michigan, Oregon and others. His final choice came down to Georgia and Ohio State, with the Buckeyes winning out, primarily because of Stroud’s relationships with Fleming, Smith-Njigba and Gee Scott Jr. Stroud has two older brothers (Isaiah and Asmar) and an older sister (Ciara). His father was his “best friend” growing up, but Stroud didn’t talk with him throughout high school following his father’s incarceration. He rekindled the relationship after enrolling at Ohio State and the two often talk on

    • geoff u

      I really struggle ranking these quarterbacks, they all bring something special to the table. We just better not blow it and go mediocre defensive player.

      • Wilson502

        Definitely agree with ya there, Ill really lose interest in the team if they decide to go the mediocre defensive player route (I would include even Will Anderson in that because I dont have faith he will be utilized to his full potential with this coaching staff and Jalen Lazyass is too much of a risk).

        • Malanch

          “Ill really lose interest in the team if they decide to go the mediocre defensive player route (I would include even Will Anderson…”)

          But what if the Seahawks know more about these prospects than you? Could that be possible?

  35. Spectator

    I know this is a little off topic, but i figure you all and Rob might find interesting that there are some rumors going around that Bama is going hard after Tyler Van Dyke to transfer to Bama.

    • Rushless pass

      Guy needs to get away from Cristobol

      • Robbie

        This is a fact. He has to be the biggest QB killer of all time! Can’t believe he’s still employed.

        • Brodie

          He brings in top 5-10 classes wherever he goes. He’s a relentless recruiter and demands the same of his coaching staff. That tends to burn people out though, as he’s an intense guy.

          If he could just turn the offense over to a good OC and keep from meddling in it, along with hiring/delegating some kind of clock management coordinator, he might be ok.

          He’s a former OL guy and thinks the only way to win is by running it over and over while exerting dominance via his offensive line.

          Man, you’d think I was talking about a young Pete!

    • Mr. Drucker in hooterville

      TVD should transfer. He’d kill it at Bama

    • Rob Staton

      That would be AWESOME

  36. Madmark

    I want to thank you for the website and I want to tell you why? Watching NFL games have become more fun to watch. I have better knowledge not just about Seattle players but about players on the all the other teams in the league. This years special because we are going get the 5th guy in the draft period.

  37. Peter

    I know one of you brought it up already….but YouTube just offered me the chance to watch Brock say we should trade 5 and 20 for will anderson.

    Is he doing okay? Brock I mean.

    • Wilson502

      Brock drank the smooth brain kool aid this offseason. His takes have been a flaming pile of crap. Trading 5 and 20 for a non-elite OLB prospect is about the dumbest take Ive ever heard.

      • Simo

        It may not be as dumb as trading two firsts and change for an overrated box safety!!

        • Wilson502

          Then doubling down and signing said overrated clown box safety to an extension. SMDH.

    • Simo

      Well, I really like Anderson, and he would be a very nice consolation prize if we lose out on the early QB’s, but there’s no way I would trade 5 + 20 to move up for him! We still have a great chance to add a premium talent at 20, and this team needs all the talent they can add, especially cheap talent.

      • Peter

        I’m way into Anderson if the qbs are gone.

        Totally agree about pick 20. A lot of interesting names there.

  38. Madmark

    1 last mock before the final.
    5 Anthony Richardson QB Florida
    20 Will McDonald IV Edge Iowa St.
    37 John Michael Schmitz C Minnesota
    52 Drew Sanders LB Arkansas
    83 Bryon Young DT/DE Alabama
    123 Jordan McFadden OG Clemson
    151 Chris Rodriguez RB Kentucky
    154 Garrett Williams CB Syracuse
    198 Karl Brooks DT/DE Bowling Green
    237 Robert Cooper NT Florida St.
    UDF Nikki Remigio WR/ST Fresno St.
    A conservative draft.

    • Trevor


  39. Brennan


    Extremely entertaining piece and was good listening to the different perspectives each of you had on particular players. Good stuff!

    At this point I feel like the Hawks still need to sign a veteran NT prior to the draft to really free them up to be able to take advantage of “value” and not get stuck looking at “need” if someone drops into their lap. I’m still a big proponent of an A’Shawn Robinson signing or bringing back Al Woods to give them more flexibility. If we did a depth chart on the Hawks right now, NT appears to me to be the one glaring hole.

  40. Old but Slow

    I am preparing myself to accept this draft however it comes out. As Rob indicated, even if they take Carter (I would not), this can still be an A+ draft.

    In trying to predict the last few picks, I see it important that they give extra value to special teams. If 3d day picks are to contribute, it is most likely on teams. For instance, a smaller WR or RB that would not be looked at in early rounds might be seen as a returner, or an aggressive linebacker who is questionable as an every down player but might be a great headhunter on coverage teams.

  41. Palatypus

    Keanu Benton feels very Seahawky. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he was one of our picks.

    Off topic cigar thought.

    While I was watching Saturday Night Live last weekend, hosted by Cuban actress Ana DeArmas, I had a weird thought. I was recalling how when I asked this board what a gold medal for the underwear olympics would look like, Rob said, “Gold pants.” Pants being British parlance for underwear. So which of the following sentences would be more properly British?

    A) Cuban actress Ana DeArmas gives me a missile crisis in my pants.


    B) Cuban actress Ana DeArmas gives ma a missile crisis in my trousers.

    Trousers feels very Wallace & Grommit, but what would Benny Hill say?

  42. Brodie

    Potential vet minimum guy? Have to think this would be the kind of fill-out-the-roster type PCJS would be in on if he’s open to a dirt-cheap offer. Wasn’t long ago that a lot of Hawk fans were hoping to land him.

    Colts defensive coordinator Gus Bradley said EDGE Yannick Ngakoue won’t return to the Colts this offseason.

    Ngakoue has been one of the “winners” of Media Disconnect Free Agency, drawing almost no interest in the offseason that we can find but routinely being mentioned as one of the top available free agents. Indianapolis signed Samson Ebukam to replace Ngakoue. Ngakoue did finish the year on injured reserve, but he had 9.5 sacks in 15 games and is still only 28.

  43. J

    Multiple trade downs (Jalen Carter went 2 to Texans, so already unrealistic):
    12 Bijan
    20 W Mac IV
    33 Mike Mayer
    37 Hendon
    52 Ced Tillman
    83 Wypler
    124 Emil Ekiyor
    151 Jakorian Bennett
    198 Jaq Roy
    199 YaYa
    237 Villami Fehoko

  44. cha

    Geno on the Sherman podcast today

    Unrelated though – Sherman at the 20:00 mark says ‘I hear Pete’s going back to the scheme. Thank God!’ in relation to the defense. But Geno nods and chuckles.


    • PJ in Seattle

      So back to the 4-3 hybrid? Um… ok.

      • hawkdawg

        Hmmm. Maybe that’s why they let Woods go? Don’ t need a 3-4 nose?

    • LouCityHawk

      Oh, good thing we still employ Clint Hurtt…

      This would also mean Wilson and Kancey would make sense.

      It would also indicate to me that it is time for a regime change.

      • Peter

        How’s Jones playing inside?….how’s nwossu in kj wriggts old role?

        But for real what a waste of time.

    • Rob Staton

      That would change things dramatically

      • Cliff

        Wouldn’t this be a huge issue with our lack of linebackers?

        • Rob Staton

          We’ve just re-signed Wagner, they signed Bush and yesterday said Brooks could be back for camp

          • Cliff

            I feel a lot better about those three if they’re only asked to fill two spots. Significant snaps for all 3 seems like we’re going to be asking a lot, especially early in the season.

            • Rob Staton

              Well they’re seemingly set on Jamal Adams playing weakside backer too

          • Glor

            So now the question is…. Who on our team doesn’t fit the old scheme and does this change what defensive players you would target in this draft?

      • geoff u

        As in we’re back to being the old bad defense rather than the new bad defense?

        Jk, I know what you mean, scheme/player fit wise.

        • Glor

          Ya, but to be fair, Rob has been saying that the only person that wins with the Vic Fangio 3-4 is Vic Fangio, so making the move back to 4-3 …. I like it -I mean we were horrible last year

      • Glor

        Just listened to the podcast, ya geno didn’t look like he cared for Sherman slipping and letting out that nugget, but it sure looked to be legit

        • Rob Staton

          I will review this in a post at some point

          • Glor

            Much appreciated sir

      • PJ in Seattle

        If true, we need to be looking a whole bunch of other players in this draft we’ve already disregarded as poor scheme fits.

    • Malanch

      Thanks for the link, cha. Man, Geno continues to impress the hell out of me every time he takes to the mic. Whatever his foibles and follies might have defined his early career, one thing is clear: Desire has never been in question with this guy. My ears really perked up when Sherm steered the conversation toward the 2023 draft.

      RS: This draft is going to be interesting. (The Seahawks) have got some good picks. Take the quarterback Geno out. GM Geno, who we getting?

      GS: I did some studying. I’ve done some poking and prodding. I’ve talked to some coaches, some higher-ups in the front office, trying to get some things done. Honestly, I think it comes down to—if I’m drafting; if I’m a GM—I’m picking best available player, right? I’m thinking, ‘How can I add depth to my team?’ no matter what position it is. It could be on offense; it’s becoming more of an offensive league, right? So if you’ve got…

      RS: (laughing) Uhhhhh…

      GS: (sheepish) Defense wins…you gotta score points. I think you’ve seen the Super Bowl, right? With two teams who had really good defenses, but they’re scoring points back and forth. And so, you want to add weapons, right? You want to add whichever guy—I won’t say any names—but there’s some guys who…I’ve got some eyes on some guys out there. And there’s some really good players out there, and so adding depth to the offense is always my thing. The more weapons, the better for the quarterback. But I do understand that we need to solidify some pieces on defense, as well, and so I think best available. If it’s a D-lineman, if it’s an outside linebacker, if it’s a corner…or receiver, or running back, or a (tackle)…another lineman, it just depends on who’s there at what time.

      Well played, Geno. Interestingly, “GM Geno” keeps can’t help but keep coming back to the offensive side of the ball…yet he doesn’t include quarterback on his list! Hmmm…

  45. jujus

    I did this PFN mock during the podcast. This might be the most insance scenario but to trade back from 5 and still get richardson. O Boy… im salivating

    Anthony Richardson
    QB Florida
    trade icon

    30. Adetomiwa Adebawore
    EDGE Northwestern
    trade icon

    33. Darnell Washington
    TE Georgia
    trade icon

    37.Mazi Smith
    DT Michigan

    48.Joe Tippmann
    OC Wisconsin
    trade icon

    52.Keion White
    EDGE Georgia Tech

    123. Sean Tucker
    RB Syracuse

    151. Bryce Ford-Wheaton
    WR West Virginia

    154. Cory Trice Jr.
    CB Purdue

    237. Nick Saldiveri
    OG Old Dominion

    • Trevor

      No sure how realistic it is but I would do backflips for that group of players.

  46. Rob Staton

    Appreciate the kind words on the podcast appearance guys

  47. z$

    Such a fun listen, great craic between you three!

    Just caught the move the sticks ep with DJ and Peter Shrager. DJ mentions from what he’s hearing that Seattle prob aren’t interested in Jalen at 5.

    • geoff u

      And their mock has CJ Stroud falling to them.

    • Rob Staton

      Well, I have been saying…

      • z$

        Yep, you’ve been on this from the outset. This is the first mainstream draft prognosticator I’ve seen that seems to be coming around.

        • Rob Staton

          Here’s the quote from Jeremiah:

          “Teams I’ve talked to do not expect Seattle. The stuff I got back was the Malik McDowell experience soured them on taking a chance.”

          • Glor

            What a shocker 😁😉

          • PJ in Seattle

            Some of us are slow learners.

            Raise your hand if you have more than one crazy ex.

            • PJ in Seattle

              That said, I would not bitch about seeing a quick and sudden end to the Fangio D experiment. It sucked like a crazy ex.

          • Dregur

            What? I am so surprised. This is the most shocking news of the day. How can it be? Oh my god.

  48. DW

    Supposed percentile scores for the top QBs:

    S2 Cognition test results per

    Bryce Young – 98%
    Jake Haener – 96%
    Will Levis – 93%
    Jaren Hall – 93%
    Clayton Tune – 84%
    Anthony Richardson – 79%
    Hendon Hooker – 46%
    CJ Stroud – 18%

    • Troy

      With Stroud grading out that low you have to wonder if the test answers get handed out at Manning passing academy?

    • Dregur

      At this point, take it with a grain of salt. S2 CEO stated the stuff that’s being leaked is false.

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