Curtis Allen’s third quarter report card

This is a guest article by Curtis Allen…

Record: 1-3


In the first quarter the Seahawks’ record was 3-1. The second, 2-2. This quarter they turned in a 1-3 performance.

A scraping win over one of the NFL’s worst teams, a confounding loss to a division rival that has given them fits for years and two losses to talented teams the Seahawks considered potential equals have exposed this team.

The phrase ‘one of the worst losses of the Pete Carroll era’ keeps popping up this year. A Week One disaster against the Rams, a Week Nine bludgeoning at the hands of the Ravens and the Week Twelve beating by the Niners all fit into that category.

The shine of so many critical players has worn off and revealed a dull finish. Players like Geno Smith, Bobby Wagner, Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs have even the most optimistic Seahawks fans looking for other options.

Jarran Reed has reverted back to just another defensive line piece after a very promising start to the season – his sack and two TFL’s against Dallas broke a five-game drought in both categories.


1. D.K.Metcalf

Rumors of losing a step are unfounded. He had a spectacular quarter with 21 catches for 358 yards, for a gaudy 17 yards per catch average.

Four touchdowns, four broken tackles and a whopping 17 first downs present a fantastic picture of his effectiveness this quarter.

He also did not hurt the team, as he was only flagged once this quarter for a penalty and Dallas declined it.

2. Charles Cross

One penalty this quarter.

PFF grades of 54.8, 75.4, 81.3, and 74.5 in four weeks. For the Rams and Niners games, he had the best PFF grade on the Seahawks’ offense and according to PFF did not allow a sack and only three pressures vs Nick Bosa and Chase Young for a franchise-player-like 90.7 pass blocking grade in 43 pass blocking snaps.

He appears to have fully recovered from his early-season injury and is showing his best form yet. He is delivering a level of play you expect of a plug and play first round tackle.

The Seahawks will need every good snap he can give them down the stretch – particularly another sparkling game against San Francisco.

3. Devon Witherspoon

True, Witherspoon was targeted more this quarter than the last and he did concede three touchdowns. Yet he still had a great quarter.

Witherspoon recorded another sack, a QB Hit, a forced fumble, 26 tackles with two for a loss and six passes defended (he leads the Seahawks by a country mile this year with 15 passes defended). PFF loved his quarter, giving him an average score of 70.5, including an 82.7 against San Francisco.

The Rams game in particular was brilliant. He was targeted six times and conceded three receptions for one yard. That’s it. One lousy yard. He also added a sack, a pass defended, a pressure and a tackle for loss in that game.

He regularly finds multiple ways to contribute in every game and the Seahawks are better off for having drafted him.

Rookie of the Quarter

1. Devon Witherspoon

See above for the statistical evidence.

It is fascinating to note that when Seattle acquired Jamal Adams in July 2020, Pete Carroll was the one who made the ‘impact’ comparison between Troy Polamalu and Adams. Not in size and profile necessarily but in ways that effect the opposing offense due to his skill, creativity and vision.

Polamalu was immediately referenced by Carroll after the draft this year as another player who can similarly impact a defense. Witherspoon has regularly delivered in a way that Adams has not since that amazing debut game against the Falcons in 2020.

2. Zach Charbonnet

With Kenneth Walker hurt in the Rams game, the Seahawks badly needed Charbonnet to increase his role from being a change-of-pace back to the featured workhorse — and he has.

He had 69 touches this quarter for 288 total yards and a touchdown. He broke three tackles and provided the Seahawks with 16 first downs. You have to think if the Seahawks were more committed to the run, Charbonnet would have a couple more explosive runs after wearing the defense down a bit.

He is just getting started.

3. Jaxon Smith-Njigba

16 catches on 25 targets returned 196 yards. Half of those yards came after the catch, as Smith-Njigba is finally being put in a position to exploit his shifty skills. Nine first downs and two broken tackles only add to his success this quarter.

The Seahawks have utilized him to the point where Smith-Njigba is as viable a target as Tyler Lockett (who had 30 targets to Smith-Njigba’s 25 this quarter).

There is still plenty of ceiling that has yet to be reached.

Speaking of that, Smith-Njigba had a play this quarter that needs a point all its own…


1. The Spectacular Catch by Jaxon Smith-Njigba against San Francisco

Have a look:

Seeing this play on tape does not do it justice. From inside the stadium, you could see that Geno Smith had thrown the ball to Smith-Njigba’s left shoulder and he had to make an adjustment with the ball in the air to switch his vision from his right shoulder to his left and reacquire the ball in the air. Chris Collinsworth comments on how hard that is in the clip and being a former wide receiver, he would know.

Then there is the grab. Even with the adjustment, seeing it live your first thought is ‘no way, that is an overthrow and this drive is over.’ Smith-Njigba not only ran the route and got separation, adjusted to the ball in the air — he makes a spectacular one-handed grab. That ball cradled in his hand as if Geno had been two feet away and threw it underhanded to him.

Then there is the situation. The Seahawks had just pick-sixed the Niners to draw to 24-10 and the defense came right back on the field and forced a three-and-out. They had all the momentum at that moment. The Seahawks offense then gained one yard in two plays and sat deep in their own zone with a third-and-9, and they were in danger of ceding all the momentum right back.

Then came this catch. The stadium gasped and then exploded, the Seahawks’ sideline came to life and the offense drove down for a field goal.

If the team had managed a comeback in the game, that catch would have been pointed to as a key turning point.

2. Jordyn Brooks’ pick-six in the Niners game

Credit to Leonard Williams and Boye Mafe for bringing the pressure on Purdy in the end zone and forcing an inaccurate throw, which Brooks easily cradled into his arms like his first-born child and danced into the end zone.

Their third pick-six of the season gave the Seahawks some hope in a very tough game. The defense provided points, special teams provided points but the offense just could not hold their end of the bargain up.

3. Jason Myers’ 17 points in the Washington game

The Seahawks were terrible on third downs in this game despite being very productive otherwise.

Myers kept this game on track for the Seahawks with a perfect day, including 5/5 on field goals and 2/2 on extra points.

Myers kicked a 43-yard field goal through the uprights as time expired to give Seattle the victory.


1-3. Coaching

There just cannot be anything more concerning for the Seahawks at this moment. They have the roster talent that could be shepherded to an 11-to-13-win season, but poor decisions, bad game planning and lack of proper preparation have this team stuck in the mud.

Every game this quarter featured inadequate coaching:

– Washington freely had explosive pass plays on this defense. They schemed a way to isolate Boye Mafe on a 51-yard touchdown pass to Brian Robinson. Later they found Dre Jones (of all people) on a 48-yard pass play to Robinson. Bobby Wagner was constantly targeted and burned in coverage. The offense gained nearly 500 yards but could only put 29 points on the board due to a 4/14 third down performance.

– With a halftime lead against the Rams, the Seahawks refused to protect it by running the ball in the second half. This allowed the Rams to get back in the game. Bobby Wagner was constantly targeted and burned in coverage. When Geno Smith suffered a bruised elbow, the Seahawks brought a cold Drew Lock into the game and – with a nine-point lead – called pass after pass. The result was predictable. The final offensive sequence of the game gave Jason Myers a much slimmer chance of making a long field goal and left everyone else making excuses for a wildly confusing sequence that wasted precious time.

– The Seahawks delivered a flat offensive performance against San Francisco (six offensive points and three of those were due to a 66-yard Dee Eskridge kick return) that started with a bizarre sequence with Geno Smith running on first down, coming off a bruised elbow with his availability for the game in question all week, followed by two questionable pass plays. On defense, they struggled to match the Niners’ intensity, with six missed tackles. Bobby Wagner was constantly targeted and burned in coverage. Pete Carroll said they went too easy on the players in preparation for this game and should have practiced them harder. “Now we know that” he concluded. And after the game, Pete Carroll said he “will take full account” for getting the team back on track.

– The Cowboys game featured a much better game plan on offense as the Seahawks finally found ways to utilize their talented wide receivers. Unfortunately, that was at the expense of the run game as they only ran 22 times and lost the time of possession game by nearly 13 whole minutes. The defense also was particularly awful, conceding points on every drive except one where Cee Dee Lamb dropped a pass to kill the drive. Penalties burned them once again. Bobby Wagner was constantly targeted and burned in coverage. The safeties looked particularly poor as well, conceding critical passes and missing tackles while trying to take shots. And the game’s deciding play was a call poorly conceived and even more poorly executed by Geno Smith and Deejay Dallas.

The offense leaned even more toward the pass, calling a 35/65 run/pass ratio of plays this quarter, despite having Kenneth Walker for two games and Zach Charbonnet and Deejay Dallas for all four. Late round draft pick Kenny McIntosh was activated before the San Francisco game and has yet to see an offensive snap. The play-calling this quarter revealed an inability to understand game theory. The defense needed critical time to rest. The passing game was running very hot and cold. Tight ends were running routes and not getting any targets and were therefore providing no value by their blocking in the run game.

Bobby Wagner was constantly targeted in coverage this quarter. He played every defensive snap and has played 98% of the snaps this season. Why? The Seahawks invested $3.5 million in Devin Bush and only brought him into the game this quarter when Jordyn Brooks got injured. They also invested very, very heavily to have three safeties that should be able to handle the coverage duties. But the team cannot seem to scheme Wagner out of coverage responsibilities. There are no excuses for this waste of resources.

Other player utilization seems extremely lacking. The tight ends. The running backs. Jamal Adams. Dre Jones noted he was ‘moved back to his natural position’ when the Seahawks acquired Leonard Williams but has not had enough of an impact to justify the large investment the Seahawks have made in him and the Rams exploited him in coverage for a big play.

The team committed 35 penalties this quarter for a whopping 340 yards. How bad is that? For a reference point, the Seahawks offense rushed for 348 yards this quarter.

A regular occurrence following a penalty was a breakdown. The offense cannot overcome a five-yard procedural penalty and is forced to punt or settle for a field goal. Conversely, the defense is doing the exact opposite – extending opponent drives with poor penalties and conceding points when they should be resting on the sidelines after a successful stop.

I wrote down three goals for this quarter in my Second Quarter Report Card: Find Your Identity, Improve on Offensive Playcalling and get back their Run Defense. I am forced to acknowledge that they failed in all three of those things. Spectacularly.

It all starts at the top.

Next Quarter Games

@ San Francisco
@ Tennessee
@ Arizona

Fourth Quarter Goals

1. Develop the Future of This Franchise

I have routinely put this down as a fourth quarter goal in recent years.

There are players on the roster that need NFL snaps in order to develop. At the very least, get some reps on film for the front office to evaluate in the offseason.

Derick Hall needs more than the 26% of the snaps he has been apportioned so far. It is time to acknowledge Frank Clark is not going to benefit the Seahawks very much this season.

Ditto with Anthony Bradford and Phil Haynes. It is time to acknowledge that Haynes just cannot stay healthy.

Why did Jake Bobo only get six targets this quarter? And why were half of them behind the line of scrimmage? In the Cardinals game, they targeted Bobo five times and were rewarded with four catches for 61 yards (a gaudy 15-yard average), three first downs and a spectacular touchdown. He seems to be a casualty of the offensive confusion. They need to reintegrate him soon. And properly.

Cameron Young, Olu Oluwatimi, Kenny McIntosh, Devin Bush, even Tyreke Smith need snaps to see how and if they will fit on this team going forward.

And – dare I say it? – Drew Lock should get some game action.

The Seahawks have $12.7 million reasons to make that particular move. If Geno Smith ends the season on Injured Reserve, his salary for 2024 becomes locked as it is guaranteed for injury.

Giving some thought to playing Lock has serious merit and the Seahawks would be doing themselves a disservice if they did not have a look at how he runs the offense in a real live starting role.

2. Tackle

Another coaching complaint: The Seahawks lead the NFL in missed tackles on defense.

Even when they make tackles, they let tough, determined players like Christian McCaffrey drag them for a couple extra yards.

Enough. Tackle the guy with the ball.

3. Please Stop Embarrassing Yourselves

Poor planning. Burned timeouts. Fronting off after an opponent makes a big play on you. Crazy matchups on defense and confusion on offense. Focusing on social media more than the next opponent. “I take full accountability for the poor play” after the game, followed by nothing but more poor play.

Stop it.


  1. Palatypus

    Please stop embarrassing yourselves?

    Why sweep it under the carpet when you can bury it in the backyard?

    • Palatypus

      Of course, you might have to roll it up in the carpet first.

  2. Big Mike

    For the love of God Pete, please just go the eff away. You’ve overstayed your welcome and your effectiveness.

    Thanks for this cha. Succinct and well done.

    • BobbyK

      It’s gotten to the point where you’re tempted to root against them because it is for the best long-term interest if Pete and Jamal leave (and others).

      Had Pete retired any of these past years there would have been plenty sadness among fans. Now it’s gotten to the point (especially after throwing a 2nd rounder away in ’24 and a 5th in ’25) where it’s like “get the hell out of here” and there will be celebration, not much for sadness, when he’s gone. Very sad, really.

      • Rob Staton

        Just like Arsene Wenger at Arsenal

        By the end, for Arsenal fans, the emotion was more ‘thank god it’s over’ rather than bidding a legend farewell

        • BobbyK

          It’s time to get a young QB and pair him with an offensive minded head coach. It’s time to think about the 2025 season while all the ’24 moves are done with forward thinking as opposed to Carroll’s “win now at all costs” crap year after year that cripple a franchise. Much like what Carroll/Schnider did when they originally took power in Seattle. Now they’re just like Tim Ruskell trying to fix problems with stupid free agent signings or whatever. They’ve almost become what the Seahawks were (except they’re more prone to keeping that mediocre enough of a record to look like they’re “close”, when in reality they’re far, far away).

          • Rob Staton


        • Tallyhawk

          Great comparison Rob!

  3. BobbyK

    cha – Agree so much on that JSN catch in person. My son and I were there and it was so unbelievable. The replays can’t do it proper justice.

  4. Palatypus

    You know these softball questions at the ESPN College Football Awards seem strangely familiar.

    It’s as if I have heard them somewhere before.

  5. Peter

    Thanks for this Cha.

    The record by quarter is embarrassing.

    It’s almost as embarrassing as Carter still the front runner for DROY. I mean if you want to make a case for Will Anderson Jr easy…

    But when the small corner is nearly a better dlinemen with sacks, qb hits, tfl’s AND has 15 pass break ups, an int for a TD and 2.5x the tackles what are we doing?

  6. Rob Staton

    ‘Protect the football’

    Geno Smith — 2nd in the NFL for turnover worthy plays in 2022

    Currently 5th this year, behind only Mac Jones, Sam Howell, Gardner Minshew and Joshua Dobbs. Well, he’s joint fifth with Desmond Ridder.

    Smith’s cost, of course, is considerably more than the others.

    • Peter

      Cap hit those four plus Ridder: 10.7 million

      Cap hit for geno: 10.1

      Guarantees combined: >21.5

      Geno guarantees or signing bonus: 40 mil guaranteed/ 27.3 signing

      People say no one could succeed with this line. Sure. I agree. Why are we paying a guy 10’s of millions to not produce behind this line when we could pay Sam Howell about $500k to throw a few more tds and a few more ints while we get to the hard business of fixing the things that are broken?

      This ‘we need to pay Geno’…cause…and make it right is so brain dead. If you can make it perfect why not make it perfect and pay a rookie 20 million or so (5-13th pick) for 4 years?

    • cha

      I think the “Geno doesn’t have a good OL to work with” meme is worn, cracked and broken.

      Last year he was sacked 46 times and had a 22.5% pressure percent

      This year, 27 times and a 25.5% pressure percent

      With almost the exact same time in the pocket to throw.

      He will have to be sacked 4x a game for the next 5 games to match last year’s numbers.

      A big reason he is feeling more pressure? His designed runs and scrambles are way down from last year. That’s less to do with the OL and more to do with Geno and the playcalling.

  7. Palatypus

    Michael Pennix just won the Maxwell Award.

    Kalen DeBoer won Coach of the Year.

    • Parallax

      Well deserved.

  8. James Z

    Based on this excellent analysis (not sarcasm) B Wags is not a good cover LB. Everybody seems to know that except Kumbaya Pete. And why doesn’t B Wags let Sir Kumbaya know that it’s horseshit for his own legacy, if nothing else?

    • Palatypus

      This would not be so infuriating if I didn’t see him in man coverage so much. I mean he looks like he is in trail technique. You never saw Lofa Tatupu in man coverage this much.

      • Parallax

        If it doesn’t change on Sunday, Shanahan’s gonna have a field day (again)!

        • Big Mike

          I predict they’ll start slow cuz of a big wim last week but pick up steam and bury Seattle by end of 3rd quarter.

          • Peter

            I see what you are saying but now I wonder how slow it’ll look.

            Surely Philly was a massive game for them.

            But Seattle was “giving it all they got, captain” against Dallas.

            Maybe the two forces make it like Thanksgiving?

            Either way around the 3rd quarter I suspect they will be rolling us.

  9. Gross MaToast

    I feel like I’ve read this somewhere before:

    ‘All that being said, everything comes to an end eventually – and it may be time for Seattle to consider a serious change. Here’s what former Seattle executive and Saints/Dolphins GM Randy Mueller had to say about the Seahawks when reviewing all of the current 6-6 teams for the Athletic.

    “The Seahawks need impact players, which might require a change of philosophy. You have an older coach who probably does not want to take a deep rebuild dive, especially at quarterback, the most important position. But the Seahawks are going to need to go there to regain elite status… Seattle might have to take a step back to take two forward. I’m not sure 72-year-old Pete Carroll is up for that and the two years it might take to retool this roster to return to the highest level…”

    Mueller also mentioned the misallocation of resources by giving big contracts to linebackers and safeties, which are not premium positions in the modern game. He also claimed the Arizona Cardinals are a year ahead of the Seahawks in the rebuilding process.

    It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but what he’s saying makes a whole lot of sense – especially when you consider the history of Super Bowl winning coaches. The hard fact is that a head coach winning a ring, then going a long time without one and then winning it again just doesn’t happen in the NFL. There’s a strong chance that Carroll and Schneider have hit their ceiling and getting back to the top of the mountain will require a change in leadership.’


    • Parallax

      Thanks God people are finally getting the memo and these stories are coming out. I don’t know if Jody Allen cares but the fan base is sure getting restless.

    • Rob Staton

      It’s as if we know what we’re talking about…

  10. Palatypus

    From here at the cradle of naval aviation in Pensacola, Florida, hometown of Devon Witherspoon, we salute the silent service.


    • RomeoA57

      Go Army! I hope that the wannabe soldiers beat the wannabe sailors.

      (I am a former enlisted soldier, so I don’t really care about any of the service academy athletics.)

    • 805Hawk

      As an Air Force Academy grad (‘94), I hope they tie 0-0. Actually I’m rooting for Navy so that we keep the Commander in Chief Trophy another year. Just so hard to root for a bunch of squids.

  11. Romeo A57

    Thanks Curtis, if only the Seahawks had half of the insight you detial in this article. they would be a lock to make the playoffs. The Run/Pass ratio is especially atrotious considering this struggling defense.

    I prognosticate a 2 and 3 finish to miss the playoffs with a total of 8 Wins and 9 Losses. The SF game will be another beat down. They can hang with Philadelphia for a bit, but they can’t cover AJ Brown or Devonta Smith, so they will be wide open too much of the time. Tennessee, Pittsburgh and Arizona are all a mess, but the Seahawks will find a way to lose at least one of those games.

    It would probably be a lot better if the Seahawks lost all 5 of these games to show everyone that massive organizational changes are needed. If the Seahawks manage back into a wild card game, or just miss the playoffs, it will be another offseason of Pete and his fans saying that they are real close. Just need to spend their draft captal on LB, DT, IOL and TE and that will make the Seahawks contenders next season.

    • Parallax

      Couldn’t agree more.

      • Palatypus


        But you forgot QB.

        • RomeoA57

          I see the Petehawks rolling with Geno and trying to fill in the gaps after they lose some of their players in Free Agency.

          • Rob Staton

            They won’t do that

            Guarantee they won’t

            • RomeoA57

              I see the Seahawks as irrational. Spending $50M per season on Safties makes no sense. Drafting Running Backs in Round 2 over DT and IOL was odd especially since they seem to not want to be considered a running team.

              Their recent history indicates that they do not want a Rookie Quarterback on this roster. I think that logic and reason should go out the window when speculating future Seahawks’ actions.

              • Rob Staton

                Their recent history indicates that they do not want a Rookie Quarterback on this roster.

                You keep making this same, tired, repetitive point. There is no evidence of this.

                They literally benched, then cut, a really expensive veteran acquired in 2012 to start a rookie QB. They won a Super Bowl a year later.

                They had that same QB for years as a legit franchise QB. They had no means or need to start a rookie QB. Yet when things turned sour with that QB, they were immediately being connected to potential rookie replacements, with Schneider attending pro-days and reportedly smitten with Mahomes and Allen — to the extent he would’ve drafted Mahomes in round one (per a report on draft day) to replace their franchise QB and it’s been repeatedly reported they tried to trade Wilson to Cleveland so they could select Josh Allen instead.

                In 2022 it was a crap rookie class. This year, they opted against drafting Will Levis. The other top three QB’s were gone before their pick. After the draft, John Schneider even referenced the QB class in 2024.

                They have spent years scouting QB’s robustly, as reported by many people including most recently John Middlekauff, because they are very prepared to draft a QB.

                That’s the reality.

                There is no evidence that they don’t want a rookie QB on the roster.

                Can we please stop going round in circles on this?

                • Peter

                  Maybe the framing is not what you like? That they WILL not draft one because ‘reasons.’

                  I can see both sides of it. Or maybe three sides as it were:

                  1. They will draft a qb to essentially save their jobs and say they are trying.

                  2. John will see Geno’s play this year and no that it finally time to quit goofing around.

                  These are the draft qb early arguments.

                  The ‘they won’t or not early’ argument can be seen fairly easily as well.

                  1. Fans worry that if it’s really Pete in charge still, that a team that thinks it is contending for anything after playing backups and scrubs should trade for a rental would….roll it back with Geno whom they made the starter because he essentially was more liked in the locker room.

                  I lean that they will draft one and early. John’s contract, tether, what have you is longer than Pete’s.

                  I do worry and I do think it’s founded in reality that a team that can not admit where they are actually at and where they are going may see it differently.

                  But Pete loves talent and winning as much as he likes to talk about winning. For all the grief I give him he’s got to see that Geno’s collecting small injuries is streaky to say the least and is holding the team back.

                  People say he’s getting pressured but he’s not getting sacked at a crazy rate. He’s just not able to process pressure and thus increases the pressure.

                  • Rob Staton

                    It’s not the framing at all. It’s a bad argument based on no evidence.

                    To me it feels like a lazy attempt to wallow in worst-case-scenario language. We have enough things to criticise PCJS for, we don’t have to invent stuff about their willingness to draft a QB.

  12. L80

    What this team needs to do RIGHT NOW is FORGET about the stinking playoffs and give playing time to people that need it for the future of this team.

    Geno Smith not starting is the perfect place to begin. See what Lock can do in this system with these players. See what those players can do with a completely different skill set and for Gawds sake, make him the starter TODAY…Saturday, so the mindset is clear for him.

    Adams???….Get Bryant out there and let the mouth that roars sit his ass down. Do this team wise, think of the team going forward, not some ridiculous pipe dream of playoffs and a SB win.

    • Big Mike

      You may get your wish about Geno/Lock. Geno is a gametime decision due to a pulled groin in practice. My prediction: he starts but aggravates it and we see Lock.

      • Rob Staton

        Geno is the new Big Ben

  13. king

    Thanks cha. And especially thank you for pointing out that there is enough talent on this team for 11-13 wins. It is real. A new quarterback is definitely needed to be a true contender but with first rate coaching this team would be a problem for opponents every single week. There are observations that this team doesn’t have impact players, but I am not so sure. Part of being an impact player is working in a scheme that puts you in a position to make an impact. The Seahawks don’t have the Niners roster but that comparison is a red herring. Nobody has the Niners roster. Maybe the last team comparable to the current Niners was the 2012-15 Seahawks. You don’t need one of the all time great rosters to compete at the top end of the league. Pete has the fundamental coaching chops to get far more out of this team, but unfortunately his vision is deeply flawed.

    • Peter

      I think you are being kind. I don’t think he has the chops. Pete’s never been some great tactician. He’s a big motivator. I do agree his vision is flawed. Not sure why he insists on the comfort of old names when he does way better with young guys.

      Pass heavy attack with a qb that is streaky and an oline that has more run blockers than pass blockers….alright then.

      On the note of talent I feel like the team is talent poor. That’s why I was/am upset about the Williams trade.

      • Peter

        A note about talent, age, and stuff. Here’s a list of all the players I could think of that fit the following criteria: they are young, under contract, and have some impact.

        If there’s names I’ve missed please let me know. Again I’m less convinced about the overall talent on this roster and I’m super unconvinced about the youth movement.

        Cross…no jones, maybe better than okung
        Lucas…rules. fears of chronic knee problems
        Bradford….n/a..I have hope. But we don’t know

        Walker…100% quality.
        Charbonnett…solid with plus room to grow

        Metcalf….divisive. leads team in yards and td’s
        JSN…..if we had a qb/oc he’d be a star




        Nwossu….sort of



        Special teams:

        That’s it. If I’m wrong let me know. Honorable omissions: jerrick reed ( injured) Jake bobo ( 1 and change catch a game is swain, ursua territory) Kenny McIntosh ( healthy scratch) cam young ( just a guy right now)

        • jed

          I don’t feel like you missed anyone.

          Nuosu is on the edge of young, but I think he’s really good. Would have been interesting to see what he and Mafe would have done with both being healthy this year. Next year’s edge could be fun with the potential of them both healthy and Hall taking a step forward like Mafe did.

          It feels your list that covers a lot of roster slots and not a ton of cap space, but not much true upper end talent. Spoon and DK and maybe Cross have the talent to be true all-pro or near all-pro guys. And none of the expensive guys that don’t fit the young, under contact criteria are even above average. Williams I guess is pretty good too.

          Not a lot of top end talent and Spoon is the only guy they’re getting close to maximizing that talent.

      • king

        I cannot stand Pete, but to say he doesn’t have coaching chops seems a bridge too far. He has won a lot in this league and it is because he is a great motivator, which is part of a coach’s job description, and he has a solid fundamental understanding of the game.

        Where he fails is in strategy/tactics and that is a fatal flaw, but those are things that if he could simply be less rigid in his approach to the game and accept new ideas and input, he has the ability to get far more out of this team.

        As for the talent on the team, this team has won 6 games. If Kyle Shanahan were the coach, it would probably have won 9 or 10. He would get far more out of the talent at the skill positions. I am not even sure we need to discuss that. Even with the turnover machine at quarterback, KS would get the ball to playmakers in space consistently. It would be an elite offense.

        I believe he would also demand a different approach on defense and that could only be an improvement. There are playmakers on that side of the ball and a KS led team would work tirelessly to put them in better positions than Pete does. They would probably start by disguising coverages every once in a while.

        Think about the games Seattle has lost. Shanahan wouldn’t have been the difference in Baltimore or against SF, most likely, but I don’t think the team would have come out flat in the opener, nor dropped the game in LA. They almost certainly would have beaten Cincinnati on a day when Joe Burrow was awful after the first two drives (Occam’s Razor is easy for me on this one–I saw the off target passes–does it make more sense that Seattle’s defense was really good that day, given what we’ve seen from it the rest of the year, or that Burrow just had a bad day when he still wasn’t completely back from injury?). And I think they just might have pulled the upset in Dallas. At the very least, I think with KS they have 8 wins right now and would have managed to pull at least one upset from the 4 game gauntlet they are in and licking their chops at the trio of disasters they are going to end the year with.

        There is enough talent on this team to win consistently and specifically there is enough talent on offense, which this is an offensive league, to be very, very good.

        • Peter

          We’re just splitting hairs then. I agreed with you he’s a great motivator and a bad tactician. Not sure that’s a bridge too far. If your only good at half of what the position demands. Maybe less actually if you count admin and being able to find the talent to match your vision both on the field and the coaches to delegate.

          Pete’s a sub .500 coach career wise w/o a top qb.

          As per talent on the offense sure. No disagreement there. But as I said…I don’t think this team is that talented and then I wrote it all down. It’s not a talented team. If we had a KS or mcvay we’d probably be rolling with the weakness on defense. But we don’t. And since half the team is inferior and we don’t have good coaching to overcome 5-2 has turned into 6-6 in about a month.

          • king

            I’m down with all that. I am not going to defend Pete too much. Just like with Wilson, i sometimes feel the fan base has some revisionist history on how bad he is. But I do believe his winning record was highly dependent on Wilson, so no argument there.

            I do think there is more talent on the team than they are being given credit for and that a more progressive coach would make that apparent by putting that talent in better positions to shine.


            • Peter

              No need to hit me with the ‘peace’.. that’s for people that can’t discuss.

              I think we’re in alignment more than not.

              Pete’s a legend. If he does the hard things like cut the dead weight I’m willing to concede an old dog can learn new tricks. If the first kick off next year has Wagner, Diggs, and Adams as starters then I think it casts a large shadow on his legacy.

              • king

                I meant only good things with the ‘peace’. I was agreeing with you that we are more in alignment than not.

                • Peter

                  Ha…my bad!! On the internet it’s usually the opposite.

  14. AlaskaHawk

    Good stuff Cha, someone has to document the demise of the Seahawks and why it happened.

    I will say that the talk about safety and lineback not being a premium position is based strictly on the current player market rate. They are premium in need. Typically the middle linebacker will have the most tackles on the team. We will be mad at the safeties when they miss a game ending tackle or fail to bat a ball down and we lose the game.

    The problem isn’t value for the position, the problem is the players that Pete Carroll chose are not valuable for the position.

    • Rob Staton

      There’s nothing premium about collecting tackles. That’s like saying RB is a premium need because they get yards.

      And you can’t live in fear of mistakes at safety to justify massive investment. Plenty of teams sign/draft non-liability, cost-effective safeties.

      • cha

        One connection I think fans miss is when a player leads the NFL in tackles, it usually means the defense is on the field A LOT. Whether that is through a poor defense or an offense that cannot execute or both.

        Along those lines, being proud of how few missed tackles a player has. Bobby Wagner only has 3 missed tackles this year. But if you are slow to react, out of position, or poor in coverage you don’t even get a chance to make the tackle in the first place.

        Stats can lie to you if you’re not careful.

        • Palatypus

          It’s like ESPN talking up the Iowa punter who won the Ray Guy Award. He punted for 13,297 yards and should break the all-time record in their bowl game. But, that means your offense really sucks.

          Still, I liked his comment about taking the Ray Guy Award back to Australia with him, “Where it belongs.”

          • Sean

            Wow. Using total punting yardage as an indicator of punter quality is really bad logic. A punt is basically an offense agreeing to turn the ball over.

  15. calgaryhawk

    Just a thought from left field, move Bobo to tight end. He has the size, can block fairly well, average tight end speed, very good hands and most importantly, just knows how to get open.

    • WLO333

      I’ve also wondered how hard it would be to convert Bobo to TE. We certainly could use another player at the position next year. He has the hands and know how to be an offensive force, and has shown decent competence in blocking. He would definitely need to bulk up a bit.

      The question is, how much would that reduce his already below average speed or his quickness. If that’s the only way to get him more playing time next year, I’m all for it. It would be a big gamble for Bobo, though, unless he figures his lack of speed will always negatively impact his opportunities in the NFL. That may very well be the case.

  16. OneBadMata’Afa

    It’s bizarre that a rookie coach like Nathaniel Hackett can be torn to shreds (and ultimately lose his job) for these type of issues and coaching gaffes, yet Pete Carroll can throw the same garbage out there for multiple seasons (with a superior roster), show zero improvements, changes or discipline/accountability, and gets handed a fresh pack of gum every week

    • Joseph

      It’s because he won a SB and he’s getting a little too much praise for it. So to these fans he’s free of accountability.

    • Sean

      A lot of the narrative about coach quality is related to how they do compared to expectations. The Broncos were expected to compete for a Superbowl after getting Russell and Hackett was the coach while they drastically underachieved relative to that expectation. Meanwhile. The expectation for the Hawks is to win enough to be second in their division and get into a wildcard game. They usually meet that low expectation.

      Second, first impressions make a big difference. Hackett failed out of the gate. It’s hard to shake that storyline. For Pete, he had success pretty quickly in Seattle, nevermind that it was built in part on some longshot draft returns. And then he goes to 2 Superbowls. That will never be forgotten. No matter what he does for the rest of his tenure, the main narrative will never be that he is a bad coach.

  17. Sean-O

    Good article!

    Can’t wait to see the Hawks lose the next two games, win three in a row, make playoffs as the #7 seed (give false hope) & proceed to get blown out by the 49ers/Cowboys/Eagles in the wild-card round. That would be the most Seahawky thing ever.

    With these last five games, I’d like to see some young player development & establish some sort of identity on offense.

    • Rob Staton

      Given the Rams/Packers schedules, I think they’ll need to win the last four games to make the playoffs.

  18. HOUSE

    Looking more and more likely that Lock starts on Sunday. Couldn’t hurt to see what he does. Playing a tough defense, but at least gives us the opportunity to see if he’s capable. I’m wishing him the best of luck, but realistically keeping optimism low. Next man up…

  19. Jabroni-DC

    No college football today¡

    Had a dream that the Huskies lost to the Longhorns 23-9. Hope that ain’t it.

    • Palatypus

      T’Vondre Sweat would have to dominate for the Huskies to only score 9.

    • icb12

      Army Navy today.

      True- might not be the best or most exciting football you’ve ever seen, but still one of the best damn games of the year. A classic. One that we can rely on in this ever shifting conference landscape of semi-pro football.

      • icb12

        Plus- it’s the single most important game of the year for me. The only game I wager on.

        If Army wins- my wife gets a very expensive dinner if her choosing paid for by me. And if Navy wins- i get to pick, and she buys.

        6 out of the last 8 years I’ve had to dress up and fork over the plastic for meals that come out in portions so small that it makes your stomach shrivel. With things like edible flowers topping 1/4 of a potato. The kind of dinner that requires pre-gaming and planning ahead so you don’t starve to death.

        No more I say. Bring on the food truck and smoked prime rib burrito, the size of a small child, served in Styrofoam! Go navy!

        • Palatypus

          Have you ever had smoked brisket sandwiches from Buc’cees?

          They are to die for. It is my Se

          • Palatypus

            It is my Senior Bowl ritual coming back and forth.

  20. Jabroni-DC

    And wtf is up with the Sugar Bowl kickoff at 8:45est?!?! It’s like they don’t want people to watch. The semi final games should be at noon & 3pm & then we can get on with our lives.

    • cha

      I for one love it. Going to the Winter Classic and 545 means we can hit a bar/restaurant after and take the game in.

      • Jabroni-DC

        I have to wake up the next day at 4am est for work. Uggghhh

        • Big Mike

          I’m retired so no matter to me……not to rub it in…………OK, that’s bullshit I am rubbing it in. 😝

  21. king

    I am mostly in concert with the overall perception of the team in this community, but there is one exception.

    Full disclosure here: I love offense. I love passing. But I probably love creative play design more than anything. I like coaches that beat you with their minds. I believe that success rate is more important than explosive plays. I believe punts are turnovers and field goals are partial turnovers (missed field goals are worse than most turnovers). I believe staying out of third down is far more important than third down conversion rate. (If you are capable of consistently converting third downs, then you are capable of consistently getting first down yardage in the first two downs, when your options are greater.)

    So my biases, if they can be termed that, are out there. I would call most of those statements reasonable opinions that do not fly in the face of the current conventional wisdom about the game.

    I believe I understand the place of the running game in the modern NFL. It is crucial to be able to run the ball because, in the hands of a competent playcaller/designer, it is a highly successful approach that complements and enhances the passing game. I am not anti-run, nor do I believe there are any perfect pass/run ratios. If Shanahan were to run the ball 70% of the time, it would likely be because that is the right call for the defense they are seeing and it would likely be a thing of beauty.

    However (nothing that comes before the word but…) I do not believe that Seattle should run the ball more nor that they are passing as much as they are because Pete is not sticking to his professed identity.

    I believe they are not running the ball much because they aren’t very good at it.

    Giving Charbonnet the lion’s share of carries would make them better at it. He isn’t the home run hitter that Walker is, but he is far more consistent at getting successful yardage. Whether he would be able to keep that up with more volume is perhaps an open question. But he isn’t elite. Or, at least he isn’t elite working in Seattle’s scheme. Charbonnet, in some ways, is just a guy. He is the 18th ranked RB in success rate and the 13th in yards per attempt. Walker who gets almost twice as many carries, is 27th and 24th.

    As a team, Seattle is not a good running team. They rank 21st in yards per attempt and 17th in expected points contributed (they are in the negative in this category–their running game actually cumulatively costs them points: -6.99).

    Contrast this with the passing game, which could and should be better than it is (same could be said for the running game of course), but it at least is ranked in the top half the league (14th) in expected points and is considerably positive cumulatively (46.8).

    Unless Seattle finds some way to be much, much better at running the ball, running the ball more is a bad idea.

  22. Palatypus

    ESPN reporting Dillon Gabriel is going to Oregon.

    • Rob Staton

      Washington should go all in to get Will Howard or TVD

      • Carl

        there are rumblings about Will Rogers from Miss State coming to UW

        • Rob Staton


  23. Palatypus

    I’ve got a special job for this Navy quarterback. Cleaning latrines.

    On an aircraft carrier.

    • Palatypus

      What? Is this the Russian Navy in our uniforms? They’re getting their ships blown up with surfboards!

      Yes, Sir! These Midshipmen are going to get their choice of assignments…in Antarctica.

      • Palatypus

        That ball hit his foot. Army got screwed.

        No, worries. This Navy team doing traffic control on a carrier deck would turn it into a demolition derby.

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