Friday draft notes: Stroud’s S2 score, defensive scheme, ‘grit’

S2 score? Just work with the talent

I don’t care about C.J. Stroud’s S2 score

I appreciate that teams are looking for every advantage they can get and cognitive testing is a worthwhile exercise.

Yet it really does feel like we’re in danger of letting one piece of data overrule a lot of other things that are just as important.

C.J. Stroud always had things he needed to work on. Receiving reads from the sideline and having the benefit of an All-Star supporting cast at Ohio State made his life as easy as any quarterback in college football.

His intermediate accuracy at times suffered and especially in 2021 and the early stages of 2022, there were some frustrating moments on tape.

I talked about these issues.

The striking positives, however, are tantalising. He throws with wonderful touch to all areas of the field. He has a great arm, an excellent release and he can throw with varying degrees of velocity to complete throws across the field.

Against Georgia he showed he can improvise and create like the top quarterbacks generally need to do in the modern NFL. That performance might only be a one-off. There’s so much evidence in that one tape, however, against the dominant force in college football, to believe his potential is worth taking a chance on.

If I was a team needing a quarterback and Stroud was available, I wouldn’t be worrying about the S2 test. I would tell the coaches to watch the Georgia game and say, ‘your job is to bring that to the NFL’.

Patrick Mahomes was the 10th overall pick. Nine teams passed on him.

28 players between 2014-2023 have received a higher grade than Mahomes on’s ratings.

Josh Allen was the 7th overall pick. Six teams passed on him.

22 players between 2014-2023 have received a higher grade than Allen on’s ratings.

Justin Herbert was the 6th overall pick. Five teams passed on him.

20 players between 2014-2023 have received a higher grade than Herbert on’s ratings.

We can always sit here and find a reason not to take a quarterback. Sometimes it’s about appreciating talent, appreciating that a college football player isn’t the finished article and challenging your coaches to bring the best out of them.

Sit Stroud for a year. Let him learn and adjust. Give him weapons and an O-line.

I suspect if you can do that, we’ll be talking about teams mistakenly passing on him in the future too.

Are the Seahawks going to switch their defensive scheme?

I mentioned this yesterday but it’s worth a further reflection. Richard Sherman, who remains close to people in Seattle including, especially, Bobby Wagner, hinted that Pete Carroll was reverting back to his old scheme.

It sounds like the 3-4 approach might be pushed to one side.

This would change so much for the draft if true. The types of players they might consider could change considerably.

For example, let’s imagine a scenario where Bryce Young is the first overall pick and Will Anderson is selected by Houston at #2.

I think there’s a very reasonable chance someone will trade up to #3 to select Anthony Richardson. We’ll see. It wouldn’t necessarily be to jump Indianapolis. It’d be to jump Seattle, with the knowledge Indy is unlikely to move down because they need to take their guy (which I think is clearly Will Levis).

That could create a situation where the top four are Young, Anderson, Richardson, Levis.

I would hope, personally, that the Seahawks would take C.J. Stroud in that scenario. However, if they rate Tyree Wilson as highly as someone like Chris Simms, they might be inclined to take him.

In a 3-4 scheme it’s very challenging to place Wilson. He’s only 271lbs so he’s not an obvious defensive end but he’s also too big to play in space at outside linebacker.

In a 4-3 however, he would be an extremely viable fit. Frank Clark was exactly the same weight (271lbs) when he entered the league in 2015.

It’s something to keep in mind and certainly I’m adding Wilson to my contender-list for the #5 pick. I still think Will Anderson and Anthony Richardson will be the two key players. I think if either lasts to #5, they’ll be taken. There’s no way I’m ruling out Wilson, though, if they’re shifting back to the 4-3 — even though I have reservations personally about Wilson’s play.

This could also be important for the veteran market. Poona Ford and Frank Clark remain free agents. If the Seahawks need to fill D-line holes after the draft, both are fits for the 4-3 and have familiarity with the team.

Switching schemes could bring Myles Murphy into play in the 20’s. His excellent physical profile and inconsistent tape reminds me a lot of Rashan Gary, who the Seahawks reportedly liked in 2019. I struggle with Lukas Van Ness because while the forty time (4.58) at his size is very appealing, there’s a lot of unexciting reps on tape. Even so, he’s a greater consideration if they do move back to the 4-3.

They might not need to prioritise a nose tackle with quite as much gusto. A solid, dependable one-technique could suffice.

It could push them to draft another young linebacker for depth purposes, if they are more likely to be featuring the position more prominently.

Certainly this information creates a lot of different considerations for next week.

The search for leaders

I had an interesting conversation with someone today, who I won’t name but they certainly know their stuff.

I asked for their opinion on what the Seahawks were probably looking for at #5. The response was interesting.

The source suggested Seattle was seeking the ‘next wave’ of leadership. That the way they drafted a year ago, plus the decision to bring back Bobby Wagner and Jarran Reed, had been a concerted effort to create a particular dynamic in the locker room.

It’s felt that the pick at #5 will need to add to that. It’ll need to be someone who can come in and fit into that culture. The description used was ‘a fire-starter’ — someone with the grit, the energy and the tone-setting qualities that can help elevate this team. The attitude has to match the talent.

I agree with that and it’s what we’ve been saying all along. I do think the player they pick at #5 is going to be someone who is drafted to become a focal-point leader. It’s why I think they’ll be very high on Will Anderson. It’s why I think they’ll like the quarterbacks. It’s why I think Devon Witherspoon is an interesting official-30 visitor. It’s why I’m returning to Tyree Wilson because he is also of strong character.

It’s also why I don’t think they’ll draft Jalen Carter. While many continue to overlook the flags surrounding Carter, thinking the Seahawks will be blinded by potential, I continue to think those people are making a mistake. Carter is the antithesis of what is described above.

Here are players I think could easily fit the description of what Carroll and Schneider simply refer to as ‘a Seahawk’:

Josh Downs
Jonathan Mingo
Michael Mayer
Tucker Kraft
Joe Tippmann
John Michael Schmitz
Luke Wypler
Juice Scruggs
Alex Forsyth
Peter Skoronski
Chandler Zavala
Will Anderson
Derick Hall
Nolan Smith
Will McDonald
B.J. Ojulari
Isaiah Foskey
Byron Young (TEN)
Tyree Wilson
Tuli Tuipulotu
Calijah Kancey
Keeanu Benton
Zacch Pickens
Adetomiwa Adebawore
Byron Young (ALA)
Dorian Williams
Daiyan Henley
Henry To’oto’o
DeMarvion Overshown
Devon Witherspoon
Julius Brents
Cory Trice
Jay Ward
Brian Branch
JL Skinner
Sydney Brown
Ji’Ayir Brown
Jammie Robinson
Kenny McIntosh
Chris Rodriguez
Chase Brown
Tank Bigsby
Roschon Johnson
C.J. Stroud
Will Levis
Anthony Richardson
Bryce Young
Hendon Hooker

Of course there will be plenty of others and that list isn’t in order, these are just the ones that immediately spring to mind when I think of toughness, grit and mentality.

If you missed it yesterday, check out my latest mock draft. Please also watch the video below of my latest appearance on VSiN — the more eyes on it the better. The stream with Adam & Robbie has been pushed back to Sunday at 3pm (PT) and I’m also having my annual chat with Tony Pauline over the weekend too.

If you enjoy the blog and appreciate what we do — why not consider supporting the site via Patreon — (click here)


  1. cha

    Flushing a good chunk of the DL and switching back to the 4-3.

    I can dig it.

    But if the team gives the players ‘rest days’ off from training camp again this fall and four weeks into the season, PC stands in front of the press and says ‘it takes time for the defense to gel’ one more time, I think it’s fair to ask whether he is truly interested in Always Competing.

    • Gross MaToast

      Always Compete Sometimes.

      Also, no more Texas Tech defense in round 1, please. Thank you.

      • Rob Staton

        No more older BIG-12 defenders in round one

        We don’t need a third strike

      • Big Mike

        No more Big12 defenders in round 1 please.
        Just take the damned QB PCJS!

        • Wilson502

          Honestly, this shouldnt even be a debate. Theres plenty of quality DL prospects later in round 1 and round 2.

      • Big Mike

        “Collier face”

        • Peter

          🤣🤣🤣….but seriously. None of that.

          How did Cha put it…take a winning lottery ticket ( pick five ) and set it on fire buying more lottery tickets.

        • Gross MaToast

          You know Daddy has to have his special Pernod elixir when the Collier PTSD comes calling.

  2. David H

    What does it mean that CJ Stroud received his reads from the sidelines? I keep seeing things about how easy Ohio State (or Tennessee) makes it for the quarterbacks, but I haven’t seen a description of how.

    • AC

      HC/OC would look at the defense pre-snap and tell Stroud where to throw it. Stroud would then throw it to that guy. No decision making involved.

    • Rob Staton

      They hold up pieces of card with pictures on

      Those pictures tell Stroud what to do because the coaches are reading the defense

      He is then has to execute what play he is told to run

      • David H

        Are there any notable QB successes or busts who come out of systems like that? Maybe too early to say about Justin Fields.

    • Group Captain Mandrake

      I believe Rob brought it up on one of his videos, but you would see the same mistakes from Hooker, Pennix and Stroud. They were told where to throw and did so without always looking at other options. It’s almost like those offenses were not accounting for the defense at all at times.

      • PJ in Seattle

        Exactly. In those systems, the QB does little or no reading of the D and forces the ball to where the Pineapple or Hot Dog or Poop Emoji on the sideline tells him to throw it.

        So the question becomes, can a guy like CJ Stroud (or Penix. Hooker, etc) make the leap to reading defenses pre-snap and understanding all of the options that are open to him on any given play, vs. throwing the dig route your sideline is telling you to regardless of what is happening on the field?

        Stroud’s touch is amazing. I am no scout, much less a QB scout, but I nerd out and watch a ton of tape and his velocity and placement are amongst the best I’ve seen in the past decade.

        The Georgia game is what everyone comes back to – he had to get off script and make shit happen on the fly and he did it. They lost, but he damn near willed that team to victory. It’s one game and thus a microscopic sample size, but it gives you reason for optimism.

        So I think it comes down to the face time, sitting with the young man, breaking down tape, and understanding whether he has the processing ability and the grit you know are required to be a legit franchise QB in this league. I am certain if we take him, PC/JS will have done their vetting and checked those boxes.

      • Thaines

        I’m curious as to your thoughts about Jack Campbell? Does he fit at all?

        • PJ in Seattle

          I like Campbell. He ‘s a bit of an enigma because I’ve had him pegged as an old school, slower thumper. I’ve maybe lazily put him and Noah Sewell in the same box. Campbell’s testing was better than I expected tho.

          But both those guys have some Bobby Wagner in their game, so knowing that’s a hole we need to fill with a young buck, I think both are in play. But I have a bias for some faster LBs like Dorian Williams and Daiyan Henly. Overshown too. I think there are plenty of options at LB that will fit us well and we can wait and see who drops.

          • Purpleneer

            If you thought from watching games that he was slow, testing numbers shouldn’t change your mind.

          • Old but Slow

            They may have some Bobby in them, but as I recall Wagner’s testing numbers were much better than those guys.

            • TatupuTime

              Bobby ran a 4.46 40 time, jumped 39.5 and had a 132 broad (his agility numbers were less special). If we’re suggesting Campbell’s testing numbers are more like current old man Bobby then sure.

              Campbell has thump in the right role, but he’s always going to be a coverage liability. I think in the modern NFL you want fast flowing linebackers with some coverage ability. Brooks couldn’t cover well coming out, but at least he had the physical profile that said he should be able to cover. I don’t see that with Campbell.

      • Hawkdawg

        I don’t know about Stroud and Hooker, but I have seen a lot of Penix, including being at his games, and he pretty regularly shows signs of going through progressions. Maybe his first read is scripted, although a QB doesn’t need a script to figure out his first or second reads, depending on what he sees pre-snap…

        • DriveByPoster

          Based on ‘grit’ alone, I would add Max Duggan to that list. No team epitomised that characteristic last year more than TCU and Duggan led the charge. I very much doubt that the ‘hawks will draft him but if they miss out on the early round QBs then maybe as a UDFA or late round flier on a project (quite a big project, mind!).

        • DriveByPoster

          Apologies. Not meant as a reply but a standalone comment on the article. Oops!

          • TomLPDX

            It’s a good thought though. I loved watching Max last year. The epitome of grit and toughness. If only he had more innate talent to go along with that attitude. If he is available as an UDFA I would hope they would try to get him in the building to get a closer look at him.

    • geoff u

      Just wanted to chime in to say, excellent question and excellent answers, everyone.

  3. Patrick Toler

    This is (yet another) really great article. I really appreciate the great writing and discussion you are bringing this season.

    It’s still Anderson and the QBs for me. Assuming Young is gone, I like Richardson > Stroud > Anderson > Levis. Wilson is definitely a better fit as a hand in the dirt 4-3 edge rusher, but he still feels like a tier below as a project of a player who is big, long, and strong, but doesn’t bring a lot more to the table yet. I’d just as soon take a shot on any of the QBs.

    • PJ in Seattle

      Exactly where I am on this, fellow Patrick.

  4. jed

    The switch back to a more traditional Pete defense makes sense, even though they’ve struggled for a while no matter the scheme.

    Curious, does Dre’mont Jones fit in the old scheme? Maybe as a bigger end that can also go inside on clear passing downs?

    • dregur

      He’d be a 3 tech DT.

    • Rob Staton

      Jones could be a Bennett type or simply a three-technique

      • jed

        Thanks Rob and dregur.

    • RealDangerRuss

      I’m giving Pete one more season. That’s all he gets from me. If he can’t figure out the defense at this point, the problem is definitely HIM. Perhaps he was never the defensive guru some thought he was?

  5. Brodie

    The potential scheme change does indeed make this a tough projection of a draft. Hard to gauge what they’re looking for if we don’t know what personnel they’re going to favor.

    I will say, I’d written him off earlier, but I think Zach Harrison is back on the board (if Tyree is). He comps to Tyree in build and being an Edge that is more of a power guy that can set the edge than a speed/bend rusher.

    6′ 5 1/2, 274lbs, 36 1/4 arms Good character, former top recruit.

    If they go another direction early (QB), he could make sense in round 3-4.

    • Rob Staton

      The problem is he is just so stiff bending the arc

      It’s like watching a cruise ship trying to turn around, watching him get around the edge and turn to the QB

      • Brodie

        He’s no Will McDonald, but I don’t think he’s much different from Tyree for bend. Neither of them have much except a bull rush. Harrison probably stiffer, tyree slower off the snap.

        He can often beat the tackle, but he can’t bend the arc well. That often leads to a running lane for the QB. Definitely needs some moves beside speed to power. I think there’s something to work with if we’re going to run 4-3 looks though. In the 4th round I won’t be pining for him, but wouldn’t rule him out either.

        • RealDangerRuss

          Man, Will McDonald just looks like The Guy. At the very least, if they draft him and JMS, I’ll walk away from this draft happy.

    • IDhawk

      Ope, just saw this after posting about Harrison. Ditto on the thought my friend. If Wilson is worth the 5th pick in the draft, why not Harrison in a later round?

    • Old but Slow

      It would seem that if you are looking at a bull rushing DE, it might be better to look at guys like Keion White, Byron Young, or Moro Ojomo. Or Ade Ade, of course.

      • Brodie

        I guess it depends on what we’re running. Young and Moro are 3T, so not really the same position.

        White and Ade are great, but they’re probably going to go near the end of round 1. I would definitely rather have either of those guys, but Harrison might be around in the 4th.

        I’m still not even sure if he’d be a fit though. He’s just got that crazy length. Everyone talks about how long Tyree is, but Harrison is in the same boat.

  6. IDhawk

    I will be physically ill if they pass on CJ Stroud for Tyree Wilson. Just wait for the second or third round and go Zach Harrison if you want that type of player.

  7. Cliff

    If we’re switching back to a 4-3, is Nwosu a good fit for that? Do you think they see him more as a linebacker or DE in that scenario?

    • Peter

      As is pre draft. Nwosu is the closest player to LEO.

      Avril was a total star on his quickness testing but also had the ability to play 80% of snaps.

      Mafe was just a hair bigger than both, quicker barely than nwosu but not near Avril and who knows how he develops.

      Taylor is great for what he is but so far has been a liability as a three down player.

      Rob thinks Macdonald could be Brian Burns but if not that he could play the Bruce Irvin role as pass rush specialist. I do wonder if in time he could get up just a bit in weight and/ or project out as a 70+% snap guy.

      • Peter

        Let’s all take a moment to pause and reflect on ade ade’s eye popping 1.61 ten yard split… nearly 30 pounds heavier than mafe and nwosu and that blistering 4.49 40.

        • PJ in Seattle

          His testing is nutzo, for sure.

  8. Beacon of half truth

    Wait Penix got reads from sidelines too?

    • Rob Staton


  9. LouCityHawk

    One guy I’ve stumbled across while watching a lot of the Big 12 games is Jason Taylor II, more of a late round guy, but seems very Seahawky

    • Drew

      Can we please draft Calijah Kancey?

      • LouCityHawk

        If we are going back to our old scheme Kancey worries me a lot less. Still has t-Rex arms though.

        I’ll mention it to JS when we are chatting about Jason Taylor II. The safety and OSU Cowboy who I’ve circled as a 5th round wishlist guy.

        The thing is, I kinda think he could be an awesome box safety i. year two, violent tackler, mad production in a ball hawking way.

        Anyone else you want me to bring up?

        • RealDangerRuss

          Why is Kancey’s arm length a concern if he has already demonstrated he can play well against bigger dudes with longer arms in college? I assume he has gone up against guards and centers that will be competing in the NFL.

    • Malanch

      Careful…discussing defense while putting “BIG12” and “Seahawky” in the same sentence might set off flashbacks with some folks.

  10. PJ in Seattle

    You’re right that if a defensive scheme change is in the works, Tyree Wilson moves up the board a lot.

    The problem I have is that he is so goddamn slow off the snap. Watch his tape, as I have, and see it for yourself. Way too many times the entire line in moving and dude still has his hand in the dirt. He’s about as a long as an end can be so makes up for it often, but I dunno. Can that be coached?

    • Peter

      Get Bennett to teach him to get off before the snap so it normalizes his speed and he appears to get off with the snap?

      • PJ in Seattle

        If he had Bennett’s get off, he could be a potential game wrecker. I’d take a couple of neutral zone infractions every game if I knew that guy was hair on fire to the backfield on every snap. As I happily did with Black Santa.

        • Peter

          No doubt.

          I was just thinking if he starting lurching on “hut one,” by the time hut two or three came around he’d be moving and he’d be in time with the actual snap.

          • PJ in Seattle

            Do you coach? Please fax resume to VMAC.

            • Peter


      • Malanch

        …Just not on third down.

      • TatupuTime

        And unlike Bennett who was going offside all the time, if Tyree Wilson jumps the snap count a second early by the time he gets out of his stance the play will already have started and he won’t be offside.

    • Purpleneer

      Let’s get together on whether it’s get-off or anticipation/readiness. True get-off is mostly natural, but can be developed, explosiveness. Michael Bennett was good there, but looked more explosive due to his anticipation (which is why he was offside a lot).
      One great illustration of the difference was Jordan Willis as a prospect. On the rare occasions he had any anticipation (sometimes it’s just trusting that you’ve got the snap count), he shot across with his explosiveness. But the rest of the time, he didn’t look ready, and while not slow off the ball, it looked bad because he started last.
      That readiness can be developed with a good stance that you can hold at full draw. And the anticipation gets better with confidence in scouting and reads, and not being scared stiff of an occasional 5-yard penalty.

  11. vichawkfan

    Rob – do you think this S2 score really changes the board for teams that were once considering a move to 2 or 3rd to get him? How long ago was that score posted for teams to see?

    It’s crazy to think, but CJ Stroud is a stud and getting him at 5 would be a diamond choice. He’s a gritty competitor that Carroll loves. After his eye popping pro-day everyone was ready to pencil him to Carolina.

    Oh how times change.

    • DJ 1/2 way

      The low S2 score is more of an issue for the system guys than it is for the other 3 top QB. They had to read and react and then did so pretty well. The video breakdown of Richardson on theringer did a good job of showing his split second decision making. The georgia game sort of mitigates the concerns on Stroud. He may be a guy that can do both. Maybe not Hooker or Penix, though. What was Hookers S2 score?

      • vichawkfan

        CJ has the perfect edge to him that Seattle likes. He’s getting dismissed, disparaged, and you don’t hear a peep out of him. He decides to not attend the Manning Academy which to me – good on him. Nobody needs to feel like they HAVE to do something like kiss the Manning ring.

        I don’t have a link to it, but I’ve read somewhere that his favourite team growing up was Seahawks.

        When he was 13 his dad was arrested and jailed for carjacking among other crimes. His mom and 3 older siblings were forced to move around live in rooms above a storage facility. He didn’t grow up with a QB coach, faced long odds.

        He has the smooth delivery and great feet. (Bill Walsh would be all over him), Overall, Stroud must become more comfortable embracing his athleticism and escapability, but he is an outstanding rhythm passer with touch, pacing and ball-speed control to carve up the defense.

        Honestly, his background is a fantastic marriage for Pete and Hawks.

        • PJ in Seattle

          Yes, confirmed – he’s on record as saying teh Seahawks are his favorite NFL team.

        • Peter

          I mean…..this. get me the guys who strive to be great.

        • Cambs

          Want this kid in friendly colors so bad, especially after the past few days. Tell the S2 witch doctors to put their calipers away and let’s burn down the Mannings like it’s SB48 all over again.

    • Malanch

      “Oh how times change.”

      Media punditry is suddenly changing, but that doesn’t mean team boards are.

      • Peter

        Agreed. Hard to believe teams are firing up the CBS mocks and thinking….hey now that’s a player to consider.

        • Patrick Toler

          Right, it’s more that the guy making that cbs mock draft is finally getting wind of what teams are thinking. My guess is that perhaps Stroud isn’t nailing his visits? Total speculation- could he have a harder time explaining certain plays or diagramming plays, because more of that was taken off his plate than the other QBs? Just a guess but it could explain (in tandem with possible low test scores)

          • Patrick Toler

            *could explain his late slide (if it is even real)

  12. One Bad Mata’afa

    There’s no Bosa or Garrett. There will always be good defenders to draft but not often is a worthy QB sitting in front of your nose. Don’t overthink it

    • Lord Snow

      Yes this!

    • Wilson502

      This is the argument that I make. “Good” defenders even DL, don’t have anywhere near the value that a potential QBoTF does, especially in a top heavy QB class as this one.

  13. Peter

    I think I found the tipping point between qb vs not qb with pick 5….

    I have to guess it comes down to how close you be the team to be to winning the superbowl. If you think they can win this year next at the latest I tend to think those people are in the Carter camp.

    If you think the team is two plus years I’d guess you are in the qb camp.

    None of this reflects how I think the team would draft by the way.

    I think Pete would think it’s possible either way.

    • PJ in Seattle

      It’s got to be QB at #5 unless who is left standing you’re not all in on. Litereally nothing compares to the value of a legit QB, even if not elite, on a 5 year rookie deal. Sure, you could bust, but your Def player could bust too. But if you hit, having that QB on a 5 year deal allows you the cap freedom to plug every hole you need to with premium options and make a serious run at dominance for a decade.

      • Peter

        Heard a guy I like say sort of the opposite of Rob that if Carter busts no big deal.

        Sort of.

        But if you don’t go qb this which could make sense the fairly glaring difference is when that time comes you need to be either:

        Terrible to draft one

        Unbelievably lucky to find another wilson because no one has yet….3rd rounder, ring, chance at another. For years at a high level.

        Or you’re then really paying the price in draft stock.

        • Rob Staton

          No big deal

          Might impact your culture for years but no biggie

          • Peter

            It’s like a whiff at a DT in 2017 didn’t send this team on a freaky tail spin where whether you like it or not the sack generating qb who refused to throw in the middle of the field kept us almost relevant as the defense trended from good ( 2017) to absolutely awful ( 2021-22) and we are STILL dealing with the ramifications of that pick via a bloated contract for a guy who never plays because they spent years trying to find answers.

          • geoff u

            Carroll and Schneidder certainly haven’t framed the pick as being anything other than a high value, massive opportunity. There’s no way they think of it as house money to be thrown away on a whim.

            • Chris

              People talking about the pick as if it’s “house money” which some around here have been guilty of, is a bit frustrating. This mindset is similar to making a sunk cost fallacy. It doesn’t matter one whit how the Seahawks got the 5 pick, whether from an RW trade, a natural draft placement, or a massive world-bending accounting error by the NFL. The fact is that they now have the pick and the decision-making process on what to do with it should be EXACTLY the same regardless of how that came to be. It seems folks will justify the idea of being frivolous with it because of how it was received when really it should be used in a way that is most likely to help the Seahawks the most, period. It doesn’t matter anymore how we got it.

      • Patrick Toler

        “It’s got to be QB at #5 unless who is left standing you’re not all in on.”

        That’s what it comes down to. It is plausible that they will like any or all of the 4 QBs, but I would be surprised if they haven’t decided that one or two of them aren’t the guy they want to build around for whatever reason.

    • Malanch

      “If you think they can win this year next at the latest I tend to think those people are in the Carter camp. If you think the team is two plus years I’d guess you are in the qb camp.”

      I’ve been seeing it this exact same way pretty much since the camps first split months ago. Well encapsulated.

      • Peter

        Thanks. Just occurred to me listening to two guys I like but don’t always agree with.

        I think last year was awesome mostly on the draft and some fun games along the way.

        But….it took Pete and John ’10, ’11, ’12, ’13 to flip everything around. Again a lot of good happened last year. But there’s a lot of short contracts, hope that injured players aren’t, and basically a hope that every single pick is a home run and all that needs to happen with a pinch of luck for me to think that we’re superbowl bound this year.

        People seem to forget that in 2012 that team was hammering teams to end the season while we watched everything start to gel.

        Last year more fun and more competive than I could have ever imagined. But the team last year wasn’t handling hardly anyone all season long.

        • Malanch

          “There’s a lot of short contracts, hope that injured players aren’t, and basically a hope that every single pick is a home run.”

          This is what complicates any feeling of ascension. Ownership transference looms, and the team’s apparent unwillingness to compete “capologically” seems reflective of pre-sale preps underway, a condition that doesn’t exactly breed confidence in the franchise. Add to this the fact that the team hasn’t been truly relevant since the Malcolm Butler event, and I really don’t know what the fans are supposed to hang their hats on. Well, one consecutive good draft, that’s what. A second would be helpful, but still not a trend. Really, until Carroll fields at least a semi-competent defense, nobody should be expected to have faith in the regime.

          • Peter

            Perhaps this cap stance is that if they take the medicine now very soon they will have a ton of cap resources?

            These short deals I hope are a sign that the sale is imminent. Otherwise it will be frustrating to watch them try to build a team scrambling at a lot of the positions every year.

            • Malanch

              The Seahawks’ cap stance sounds very rational and responsible…and dated. Capology, as I understand it, has advanced over the past decade. Mike Salk recently quipped, “The salary cap is a myth,” and when you look at how a number of franchises have been able to summon up void-year voodoo without paying a long-term price, it’s easy to gather his point. Many of us assumed the Rams, for instance, were headed for cap hell not so long ago, but they managed to slide things around just fine, going on to win two conference championships and a Super Bowl. Now, they’re resetting once again, and this time we have no choice but to be much humbler about their ability to turn it over quickly and reprise their role as the perennial thorn in the Seahawks’ side.

              I can’t readily picture the Seahawks vacating much in the way of meaningful cap headroom, either, because once these crushing contracts currently allocated for the safety position have cleared the books, other head-scratching deals will surely have taken their place.

  14. Katal

    Frustrated that I see the thinking behind taking Wilson at 5. I’m not a fan – I want a quarterback – but a 4-3 end with crazy length? It’s easy to imagine a team talking themselves into getting excited by that profile’s ceiling. That profile would get a lot of dollars in free agency, on potential alone. I get it. Yuck.

    • PJ in Seattle

      I just don’t see any way this happens, unless PC/JS are totally out on one of the top 4 QBs and that’s who’s left at #5.

      So if it’s 3 QBs and Anderson that go 1-4, I guess that’s where Wilson comes into play. I know everyone says Carter, but no one can convince me that we’re going to take that gamble at #5.

      At this point, it looks like Levis, Stroud or Richardson at #5. I think this team takes any of those QB options over any defender other than Anderson.

  15. Sluggo42

    I don’t recall ever, such possible variations in the first 5 picks-
    There are so many ways it could happen, it’s mind boggling-
    Fortunately though, thanks to all the experts across the country, I feel safe in saying Jalen Carter will be our pick-
    But I am curious if the 783 “experts” who have made this pick, will actually be able to make a comment as to why they got it wrong…
    Anyways- my heart is set on AR, and I will cry about anything else

    • PJ in Seattle

      If we take Jalen Carter while AR is still on the board, I am going to need to seek out some serious psychiatric counseling. I will hope for the best, but man, I would be hitting the bottle hard Thursday night if that happens.

      • Wilson502

        Taking a break from fandom would probably help. At least I would, I would just lose a lot of vested interest until a new regime comes in.

      • GerryG

        Look, if JS/PC decide they are on board with Jalen Carter, after meeting him, running their personality tests, background etc etc etc then I am on board.

        Ff JS/PC decide they are on board with Anthony Richardson, after meeting him, running their personality tests, background etc etc etc then I am on board.

        I am going to trust they have done the work to ensure these guys meet the criteria they want for the team. I personally am of the opinion Carter wont pass their thresholds, but I dont really know squat.

        • Wilson502

          The problem with this is people trusted their decision making process with Malik McDowell and he was a disaster. Same thing with Percy Harvin, trusted them with their decision making process on a guy with character concerns and it blew up in their face. Jalen Lazyass has nowhere near the value that a QBoTF does even if he comes anywhere close to hitting his ceiling.

  16. PJ in Seattle

    Edit to say if AR and/Stroud are there and we take Carter, I will be despondent.

    • Huggie Hawk


    • Wilson502

      Agreed, I would just tune out for the most part until a new regime comes in.

  17. Mr drucker in hooterville

    So why would Pete Carroll switch away from the 4-3 in the first place?

    • Malanch

      In Richard Sherman’s interview with Quandre Diggs, Sherm summarized how Carroll was convinced of the scheme being outdated. But this never made sense to me, because the scheme never was about fooling opponents. It was famously simple and flexible, affording room post-snap for experienced players to adjust on the fly in concert, much like how “collective improvisation” works in jazz. It’s talent-dependent, so as long as the talent is there, the scheme itself will never be out of style (unlike jazz, unfortunately). Obviously, Carroll knows this, so I interpret this supposed concern for outdatedness more as a legitimate concern for talent level.

      • dregur

        The big issue is that Shanahan has the perfect scheme to beat Carroll’s 4-3 under. I think Sherman is more talking about the Cover 3, instead of the cover 6 I believ

        • dregur

          Whoops, pressed enter too soon.

          What I’m thinking now is that past couple of years, the Seahawks have been playing what amounts to more Cover 6 instead their usual cover 3. After years of success, there were a lot of beaters for both the 4-3 under and the Cover 3, so they made adjustments for using more of a Quarters/Cover 2 zone coverage that worked a little bit, but caused some issues with the back end communication. Possibly with the emergence of Woolen, they can go back to the Cover 3, while still looking at 3-3-5 formation, using Julian Love at Nickel to essentially be another coverage linebacker, while Adams or whoever the safeties they’re looking at the draft to play how Kam played in the backend.

          This is all conjecture of course, and I might be completely wrong on what they’re scheming, especially with Dremont Jones and Reed being natural 3 tech and 1 tech DT’s.

        • Malanch

          “Shanahan has the perfect scheme to beat Carroll’s 4-3 under.”

          Peyton Manning’s Broncos had the perfect scheme, too. It’s just that…

  18. 509 Chris

    How low did stroud score on the S2? My only concern is the ability to learn an NFL offense, make checks, and read NFL defenses is very much what the cognitive testing helps to indicate strength in. I know 90+ is great but I don’t know much more than that.

    • Malanch

      I wouldn’t worry about whatever that number might be, because any alleged test results circulating the internet will most assuredly be fake news. Same with the supposed coachability issues. Whatever team drafts him will know the truth of all this, and will have factored it into his final grade.

    • Mr drucker in hooterville

      The meme floating areound twitter is young 98 Haener 96 Levis 93 Hall 93 Tune 84 AR 79 Hooker 46 Stroud 18. (Percentile)

      • TatupuTime

        Without putting everything in S2, that’s a really incredible Levis score when you pair it with the physical package and a boatload of toughness.

        I wonder what Russell Wilson’s S2 score was (or would have been). I could see it not being real high and he was still pretty successful.

      • Spectator

        The CEO of the test came out and said it was fake leaked.

      • Malanch

        “Any alleged test results circulating the internet will most assuredly be fake news.”

  19. Ashish

    I know Rob is ready for defense- Will Anderson as first pick but i really want one of the top 4 qb with our 1st pick. Hope they are not planning to take qb by trading up or something which would derail the draft. Confident that JS will pick QB but holding my breath till then.

    • Malanch

      “i really want one of the top 4 qb…Hope they are not planning to take qb by trading up…”

      Your want versus the team’s plan: hmmm. I seriously doubt the Seahawks have graded all four quarterbacks equally. If they intend to draft one, they must endeavor to move to wherever they project him to be available, unless they expect him to fall to them. Sitting and taking whichever one is left over simply won’t do.

    • Wilson502

      Will Anderson has nowhere near the impact as a potential franchise QB. Darnell Wright from Tennessee rendered him completely ineffective. If any decent tackle can mitigate Will Anderson than he’s not even close for me to take over a QB.

  20. Ishmael

    Can someone explain Wilson to me? I don’t get it at all. The length is obvious, but he’s so slow off the snap. Doesn’t appear to be particular twitchy, doesn’t use his length super well, doesn’t have a heap of tools, just looks like a big strong boy who’s a bit too much for the weaker college linemen. Is the theory just that you can teach him a proper long arm and he’ll be able to set the edge for the next 15 years?

    I’m sure he’ll be totally fine at the next level, but I don’t see anything even close to special enough to pass on Stroud or Richardson.

    • Lord Snow

      Doesnt make sense to me either. Not with a pic like this

  21. Steve Nelsen

    I will be listening for more info on Sherman’s comment. There is nothing in the personnel moves they have made or their coaching hires about switching back to a 4-3.

    I wonder if Sherman may have been talking about going back to the defensive backfield schemes they used in the LOB days with more press man coverage.

    • Spencer

      They cut their only healthy nose tackle and have yet to bring in anyone who could regularly play that position. Plus Sean Desai leaving. There are some indicators, but nothing overtly telling.

  22. Vichawkfan

    Some good stuff on the QB’s. Point of interest on Stroud, his personality etc. Some context to the “not easily coached” bs.

  23. James

    It is unclear to me why Tyree Wilson is unsuited to play DE in a 3/4 defense? We just signed Dre’Mont Jones to play DE in a 3/4 and he is 6-3, 280. Wilson is 6-6, 275, with a massive wingspan, and he has almost the exact same physical traits and Chandler Jones.

    • Malanch

      In a conventional 3-4 base, Tyree Wilson would be considered a tweener due to his sleek, high-cut frame and mere 270-pound weight (the thickly built Dre Jones has been carrying 280+ since his Ohio State days). Presumably, Wilson would need to add about 15 to 25 pounds to be able to command the edge proficiently; his length would certainly allow for this kind of a weight gain, but then he would have to become almost a completely different player than he’s been up until now. The instinctual reset would pose a significant burden, and the transition would probably take at least a couple years. Looking at his natural physique, the adaptation may or may not be pulled off effectively, so a lot of projection would be involved—not desirable in a non-quarterback top-five pick. (Whether such a premium resource should even be spent on the position is debatable.) Transitioning a 4-3 lineman to 3-4 defensive end can definitely be done, but it typically works better coming from the 4-3 defensive tackle position (as with Jones), provided the player has those requisite long levers.

      But like I said, this is just the basic standard of a conventional 3-4. I doubt Carroll’s idea of a 3-4 would necessarily follow this blueprint, given that Jones’s 6′ 2 3/4″ height is rather unconventional (and given that Carroll’s original 4-3 variant was already predicated on personnel more aligned with the 3-4).

      • James

        Thanks for your reply, Malanch. Chandler Jones was physically identical to Tyree. Same height, weight, wingspan, speed, strength, quickness… and he was an ideal 3/4 DE, so that has left me somewhat confused? Time will tell, if a 3/4 team drafts Tyree and he does well at DE, then live and learn.

        • Peter

          We need to pump the breaks a bit.

          We have zero idea at tyree’s speed, quickness, or explosion.

          • Rob Staton

            Michael Lombardi thinks some teams might’ve failed Wilson on the foot through fear it’ll reoccur

  24. samprassultanofswat

    In a lot of ways it makes a ton of sense for Seattle to revert back to a 4-3 defense. Kinda explains why their really is no legitimate nose tackle on the roster.

  25. YDB

    Switch back to an even front, huh? I wonder if there is a penetrating 3T in this draft that is thought will be available at #5 and has visited the VMAC??? Pete wouldn’t, would he? Yikes.

    This seems like an interesting piece of info/disinfo right before the draft considering the way Pete alluded to aligning the back end of the defense during his and John’s last press conference.

    • Malanch

      Let me ask you this: If Sherm is spreading disinfo on behalf of the Seahawks, do you think he’s doing it knowingly?

      • YDB

        I think Sherm is a master showman. As long as people are talking about what he is saying, then he is getting his desired result. I doubt he would knowingly spread false information, but I he does seem to like to speculate on stuff and leave his audience to fill in the blanks.

        What I would hazard to guess would be that if they do indeed go back to a more traditional even front, then it would be by playing more base nickle. Pete can get his 5 DBs on the field with Bobby and Devin. Put 4 DLs on the front with some traditional 4-3 end -sized players on the edge to provide some pass rush ability out of that. Then rotate in the pass rush specialists for situational ball. But, who knows??

    • Mr drucker in hooterville

      There is but #5 is too high for either Pickens or Benton. 😀

      • YDB

        QB it is then 😀

  26. IDhawk

    Serious question here. What is the upside of Tyree Wilson? Knowing his limitations, what type of player could he turn into in a best case scenario?

    • Malanch

      Best case, he could be one of the most dominant 4-3 defensive ends in the NFL.

    • Rob Staton

      Aldon Smith

  27. Steve Nelsen

    Tyree is much less finished as a pass-rusher at this point in his development than a prospect like Will Anderson. He is a DE like Jarran Reed. He has extraordinary arm-length and good natural strength. He could be a Pro-Bowl level DE if he develops some more pass-rushing skills.

    • Peter

      He looks tremendously strong. And capable of being a force in the run game.

      The problem I have is generally the top picks at dtackle/end whatever we’re calling him were dominate in college.

      To me he has a different problem than Carter. Not heard one peep about bad character. Nothing like that. But where are the impressive numbers?

      There’s been a lot of excuse making this year and a bit of last year about “oooo look at the potential….if only “x” happened.”

      For me it’s a fairly simple exercise. Go to Google. Type in draft history. Go to sport reference. And just look at the names of the top dline players selected.

      Guys like Ed Oliver had next level production. Won Outland trophies ( or whatever the award is for best interior linemen either side of the ball) quinnen Williams in a season at Alabama has awesome production before the draft.

      There was no:

      1. Scheme

      2. Double teams

      3. Georgia’s a special flower that rotates their players

      • Steve Nelsen

        I agree with you about drafting him at 5. I was just talking about his upside. One thing that we don’t talk about much on here is trade backs from 5.

        Me personally, if AR and Will Anderson are gone at 5, I would prefer to trade back (unless Pete and JS are in love with the remaining QB. We talked about how Arizona could trade back 2 spots and maybe get the same guy they were going to take at 4. If Las Vegas wants the last QB, they could trade up 2 spots with Seattle and Tyree might still be there at 7.

        • Peter

          I’m not as anti tyree as I might seem. I think he has the tools to be a very stout player in the pros.

          I don’t talk about trade backs because I like your thoughts on more chances…but Seattle themselves have been fairly bad at that tact.

          I dint think tyree is collier or similar. But just now I think he’s as likely to be a “guy,” as he is a true talent at the next level.

          And teams need guys. I just don’t know watching him if your getting someone that much more dynamic than say Reed was once and it’s hard for me to see top ten pick with that. I think it comes down to how poorly the dline class is.

          Like robs horizontal board. I just see a guy you’d be stoked on in the middle of round two in most years.

          • Ben

            The issue with Tyree is his age. There’s not much projection, you may get the exact player you saw last season. And if that’s the case, that’s very underwhelming for a top 10 pick.

  28. Coach

    Chris Simms is adamant that Tyree Wilson and Carter will be the two top defenders taken in the draft. If they go 2nd and 3rd, then we might get to decide between Richardson and Will Anderson at 5. Then who do you take?

    I’m thinking Richardson and then Will McDonald at 26 after trading down. McDonald was the #2 edge rusher for Simms. Tyree Wilson was #1 and Will Anderson was #5.

    He says that we will see at the draft that the media looks at this edge class differently than nil teams. It will be interesting to see how it turns out – less than a week!

    If we do switch back to 4-3, that does change things for the draft! Van Ness had one of the best pressure rates and it still young and just learning! Could possibly be another Crosby in a couple years!


    Go Hawks!

  29. QAgrizzly

    If some of the critical analysis that is going around now about Stroud. I.E. difficult to coach. etc.
    has merit, then I would have to think that there would be some concern about “redshirting ” him for maybe up to 2 to 3 years. It will require a somewhat unselfish attitude to handle the possibility.

  30. Icehawk

    I’m wondering, is there an example of a QB that came from a system where he gets the read from the sideline, like Penix,Stoud,Hooker, and then became a good/great NFL QB?
    Is there a possibility to coach those guys up and teach them to make reads?

    • Peter

      Geno Smith.

      He played in a lot of the same easy qb system in college.

      He obviously had the arm talent. He just needed to not get thrown on to the field in new York right away.

  31. Andrew

    Hi Rob, I just had a epiphany watching the pre draft press conf for a second time tonight, I think you were right over a year ago, Will Levis is there guy, I have moved off Richardson, the game being played right now is Colts GM & John.S….I think they may make a move up for Levis but 2 could be easier then 3,,,,I think Levis is the apple of Johns eye…Cheers, Both the GM of the Colts & John have very sililar roots and insperations..

    • Rob Staton

      I think Anthony Richardson is firmly on their radar


      • Wilson502

        For me, if JS “wants to wear the championship belt” he needs to move up and get his QBoTF, whether thats Levis, Richardson or whoever, otherwise all that talk about Mahomes and Allen just comes off as a cheap talking point.

      • Andrew

        Doing so many interviews & articles, to take the time to respond to a everyday Seahawks fan like me makes you special. Thanks Rob! you are the best, Can not wait for Thursday

  32. J

    PFN Multiple Trades w/ Philly and others:
    20. Mayer
    29. Kancey
    30. MacDonald IV
    37. Hendon
    40. JMS
    52. Keion White
    83. Mingo (unlikely)
    123. Jak Bennett
    151 MacIntosh
    154 Broeker
    198 Mapu
    237 Saldiveri

  33. Purpleneer

    Not waiting to read comments yet, but holy crap if that doesn’t scare me into thinking that approach might lead to something like a Clelin Ferrell over Josh Allen type decision. All those players mentioned indicate that the leadership they’re looking for doesn’t need to come in the top half of round one.
    If that really contributes to a decision to pass on a top QB chance, even if it’s for Anderson and he plays great, it is a bad approach and would kill any chance of another title with Pete. They’ve let themselves be fooled by Geno bad enough as it is.
    Admit a Super Bowl ain’t happening with Geno. Use this pick on a QB, or do your best to roll over it’s value to 2024, period.

    • Malanch

      “The leadership (the Seahawks are) looking for doesn’t need to come in the top half of round one.”

      That’s a good point.

      • Rob Staton

        It’s not a good point though

        It’s not about pointedly targeting a ‘leader’. It’s simply about that player not being the antithesis of a leader.

        Believe it or not it’s possible to get a good player at #5 who can add to the culture and be… really good. It’s not ‘Clelin Ferrell type or Jalen Carter’ as the only two options.

        • Malanch

          Yeah, my above response didn’t come off well, looking back. Let me re-phrase what I meant:

          “The Seahawks can go ahead and spend #5 on a guy who is reputedly not an alpha (read: Anthony Richardson), and then teach him how to be a leader.”

          • Malanch

            (That’s what I thought to OP was implying, whether his QB preference is Richardson, Levis, or Stroud.)

          • Rob Staton

            Without wanting to be a pedant, I don’t even think it’s about teaching them to lead

            Charles Cross isn’t a vocal leader. He fits though as someone working his tail off, never being a headache. He might never be Kam but he isn’t going to be a problem either

            They don’t need the heart of the team at #5 but if they can get him, great

            But what they don’t want is someone who negatively impacts the culture

            • Malanch

              “The source suggested Seattle was seeking the ‘next wave’ of leadership… It’s felt that the pick at #5 will need to add to that.”

              No pedantry detected, Rob, only conceptual refinement—always welcome, good sir.

              In the context of Michael Lombardi’s take on Anthony Richardson not being an alpha (and not being worth a top ten pick), your source’s above comment makes me think, “If it’s true that #5 specifically must add to this ‘next wave of leadership’, does it rule out Richardson?” My inference here could be off, but this is what I take it to mean.

              Purpleneer seems to contrast this a bit. I interpreted his take as, “Hang on. Maybe #5 won’t immediately bring this desired leadership should the Hawks go quarterback, but that’s okay, because other leaders can be found with subsequent picks.”

              I’m already operating under the assumption that John Schneider is only picking “Seahawks” from here on out (sticking to smaller boards that profile a narrower, more exacting range of character types), so I just thought to explore the gap between these two approaches…

              …But the real point is this: Only Jason Myers days left to the draft! Woo-hoo!

              • Rob Staton

                But we need to establish something

                ‘Adding’ to the leadership doesn’t mean, ‘this player needs to be an alpha male’

                As I mentioned with Charles Cross. He isn’t an alpha. He adds to the leadership though by working hard, never being a headache, getting on with the job and being a great professional

                They don’t need Ray Lewis mixed with Kam Chancellor with a sprinkling of Tom Brady at #5

                They need someone who can help further develop a culture

                • Malanch

                  I can dig that. 👍

  34. Valerie

    You’re the best analyst in the business. “Names” like Chris Simms are yammering nonsense while your views are framed with facts. Please add Stanford WR Michael Wilson to your list of players who have the mentality, grit, constant desire to improve to be the best, and leadership (team captain). We may not need his specific skills in the WR room, but he’d be a tremendous asset on and off the field. Thanks for your best in the biz blog.

    • Peter

      I’m neither pro/con Michael Wilson….

      Can someone explain with better WR scouting skills than me explain it?

      I just see a guy who isn’t particularly fast. Has okay size. And has been injured a ton.

      • Brodie

        If he didn’t have the injury history, I think he’s a guy that Pete would really like. He’s one of the best run-blocking WR’s in the draft. I think (without looking) that he’s had a season-ending injury in 2, if not all 3 years though.

        • Peter

          Maybe that. Udfa, perhaps?

          I’d rather mingo by a mile.

  35. vichawkfan

    I think if you glean some info off this write-up – the kid was basically destitute from 13 onwards while their family was blown apart from a dad that got locked up. He had no QB camp, he was fighting for his families survival by maxing out his talent and striving to get the QB job and hang on to it. But what also comes through is he’s a very likeable guy once he’s off the field.

    Basically, you’re getting a 21 yr old that is deadly serious about his craft/game and has developed a massive sense of obligation to succeed and improve himself….i.e. Pete Carroll ideal attitude.

    • Old but Slow

      It might have been the Scott McL interview when it was suggested that the top quarterbacks tend to come from stable family situations, and that those with a tough upbringing tend to be the better defensive linemen. If I remember correctly.

      However, there are no absolutes.

      • Huggie Hawk

        Only a Sith deals in absolutes…

      • Rob Staton

        Scot didn’t say that, he just said upbringing can impact a player

  36. Tomas

    Pete Carroll has lost the plot. Stat wise, he’s one of the dumbest defensive minds in the league over the past 5-8 years. But the hype lives on.

    • Glor

      Umm, who is hyping his defense?

      • Malanch

        Well, Carroll has been receiving a lot of love in this year’s pre-draft coverage, but the adulation has pretty much exclusively pertained to the Carter-to-the-Seahawks stuff—as in, ‘Jalen Carter is the perfect Pete Carroll pick.’ Carroll the legendary motivator still gets play, whereas Carroll the brilliant mind does not.

        But I wouldn’t call him “dumb” by any stretch. Damn, that’s harsh! Senile, maybe…

  37. Bobby54

    I think this 3-4 or 4-3 thing is a bit overblown. First of all, a lot of times in todays nfl we play some nickel or dime formations. Last year with our 3-4 we had a lot of snaps with 4 lineman in a 4-2-5 nickel for example. You also have to be flexible, so no matter what base formation you have, you should be able to switch between alignments. Its also way more important how u line up up front. Our old 4-3 under was basically a 3-4 with the sam coming up on the LOS. So its not that important if u run a 4-3 or a 3-4, especially with all the nickel and 3 safety looks. However, i can see a switch back in terms of coverages. Away from those heavy usages of Cover 4 and Cover 6 back to our more traditionell Cover 3 or Cover 1 coverages. Maybe combined with our CB playing more press instead of off coverage. I think tariq for example would benefit a lot from this switch

    • geoff u

      I feel like someone’s gonna get sued over this s2 leak mumbo jumbo…

      • geoff u

        Oops, not meant as a reply to this

      • Peter

        I tend to agree.

        S2 currently is an ultimate cherry picking, confirmation bias tool as of now.

        When the data includes say, I don’t know 5000+ qbs starting in their teens and carrying through full NFL careers I’d maybe think it has validity.

        Brock Purdy. Give me a break. The games not too fast for him….he has very little starts and a paltry amount of attempts.

        Let’s see Brock purdy through his first contract and see where he’s at.

        What’s kyler Murray’s s2? He’s a big time gamer. The s2 is just pattern matching and recognition.

        I still say part of the reason a head honcho of s2 called the leaks b.s. is as soon as a qb with a low score does well or a high score doesn’t it’ll prove that s2….well frankly doesn’t prove anything.

        • geoff u

          I wasn’t even considering that angle, but that’s an excellent point too. Especially if they’re the one’s leaking this, to promote their s2 and get more funding. They’re certainly doing a good job of it, everyone knows it now.

          However, I was just thinking more the way it’s being used in the media. If the leaked numbers are fake and Stroud falls, I think he could make a good case for it costing him millions of dollars depending on how far he falls. Someone’s clearly using it to try and effect Stroud’s position in the draft, so I’d guess either the Texans or a team below the Texans who want him to fall — or an agent of one of the other QBs who want their position moved up. Could also just be a completely irresponsible media.

          It’s weird though, because it’s just PR, or in this case negative PR, and the teams should have the results and be doing their own evaluations regardless so it probably doesn’t effect his position at all.

          A month ago it was weird Levis shit about mayo, selfies, and eating whole bananas and now similar goofy shit about Stroud. It’s just silly.

    • Rokas

      Excellent post, thank you.

    • Blitzy the Clown

      back to our more traditionell Cover 3 or Cover 1 coverages

      This is what I took Sherman to be referring to when he said they’re going back to the scheme.

  38. Coach

    Here’s another “analyst” who ranks Will Anderson behind Tyree Wilson at Edge. In fact, he even says in his video that Wilson would be a better fit for Seathawks than Anderson.

    Is this true if we are possibly going back to 4-3?

    Here’s the video

    Go Hawks!

    • UkAlex6674

      Or it could just be someone else’s opinion and there is no other reason for it.

      • Peter

        Add that the draft takes forever so we are grinding ideas into dust at this point.

        • Big Mike

          No kidding

  39. Ken

    Hey Rob,

    Long time follower of your blog, very informative.

    Chris Simms was not high on Will Anderson and he reminds me of Aaron Curry, highly touted for character but never lived up to his over-hyped expectations. I think Tyree Wilson is over-hyped, in the NFL you need ABOVE NFL strength and/or speed to beat the tackles, every left tackle is big, strong and quick.

    I saw Stroud against Georgia, all I can say is WOW…. no concerns drafting Stroud at 5.

    If all of the QBs are gone, I think the Seahawks should draft Jalen Carter, probably a generational defensive player if his head was screwed on correctly. If Carter was drafted, Jarran Reed, Nwoso, Wagner could show him an example of being a professional for the next year. Especially Jarran Reed who was considered to has strong good character, he can ride Carter’s ass until he learns to be a professional.

    Your thoughts??

    • Rob Staton

      I don’t think they will draft Carter. He simply isn’t a ‘Seahawk’ as they like to put it

      I think they will love Anderson

      I think if he isn’t there, it’ll be AR

    • BK26

      Nothing about him has made us consider him generational. And IDK why everyone thinks that the whole defense is going to be ok being babysitters. They have a job to do, not help a giant man baby learn how to be a professional.

      • Mr drucker in hooterville


      • Peter

        Let’s game this out:

        Jordan Davis was Carter’s camp counselor.

        High character Wagner and locker room leader Reed are both on short deals. So if they play so-so, age mostly, we release one or both the following year…how long do we need to sign “culture,” players to watch one player? A few years? Every year?

        • BK26

          Bingo. Are we wasting roster spots on aging players for one kid that still might not pan out either way?

  40. Jordie

    Any ideas why the “draft media” is so down on Levis?
    Multiple recent mocks have him falling down to the teens… some dont have him in R1.
    I know you think he is a lock to Indy at 4 but what are others seeing and not seeing???

    • Sea Mode

      1. Does Will Anderson become a lesser prize if we’re moving away from the 3-4?

      2. Stroud or Richardson if both are available at #5? I trust their evaluation with all the information and would be happy whichever they selected. Both are extremely talented in their own ways, but which is more “pissed off for greatness”? From the outside, it seems to me Richardson but I just don’t know enough about Stroud’s personality.

      • Sea Mode

        (reply fail, sorry)

      • samprassultanofswat

        Seamode. I tend to agree with you. Right now Stroud is probably more NFL ready. But Richardson is more talented. And I think Richardson will be much more easy to work with. The guy seems to be a sponge. Richardson wants to learn everything. Richardson seems to be more willing to do whatever it takes to win.

        It’s like me and my tennis game. I want to learn everything I can about the game.

        • dahveed

          All I can say is If your Geno you want Rchardson if they go QB at 5 and Not Stroud . Richardson needs to sit and brew where Stroud would be coming in hot.

  41. samprassultanofswat

    Ken. Check out the stats of Chase Young. Chase Young was the second player taken in the 2020 NFL Draft. I realized Jalen Carter is not Chase Young. But I am not thrilled with taken Jalen Carter. I want players that love football. Jalen Carter can say he loves football. But his actions speak louder than his words.

  42. Mr drucker in hooterville

    Stick to the plan, Seattle: Anderson or A QBotF. Stroud, Richardson or Levis will be there . Grab one and focus on 20.

  43. Madmark

    The rumors of Seattle are changing back 4-3 Defense are bullshit. Why would you bring in Robert Cooper NT for 1 of your official 30 visit. That makes absolutely no sense and if I was you don’t count Al Woods as gone there plenty of time to work something out after the draft.

    • Murphy

      So because Seattle met with a NT on an official visit, we should completely discount what Sherm and Gino said? That’s an odd take to be so confident about…

      • Madmark

        Your right hey Robert glad you flew 3,000 miles to talk to us but we are going with 4-3 defense now and you were invite as a smokescreen. I’m not buying it this isn’t the Cleveland Browns when you change a defense it takes more 1 year to gather the players that fit.

        • Murphy

          Ok so, Pete, John, and the rest of the team were prepared to fly out to see Tyree Wilson, who doesn’t fit a 3-4. Your point? Could they have possibly felt that he could fill a different roll in the NFL? Who knows if they will change back to a 4-3 but your level of confidence does not jive with your utter lack of evidence.

    • Mr drucker in hooterville

      If that is your only evidence, that is weak. They could bring him Cooper in because they consider him an option at DT.

      • Madmark

        He’s a 335lb space eater there is a big difference between nose tackle and a defensive tackle. It’s my logical opinion that when you bring in to talk to and look at and JS says anyone who plays NT in college knows how to play in the NFL you can get them later in the year. Why would he say that this year if we were changing to a 4-3. Don’t get me wrong I like Richard Sherman but he’s a media guy now, not a coach.

    • geoff u

      It was one off the cuff comment by Sherman, and he didn’t mention 4-3 vs 3-4. While I’d love to know the details of what he actually meant by the comment, and where he got the info. He might be simply talking about what he knows the most about — the coverage scheme. We shouldn’t run too far with this until we get confirmation from the coaches.

  44. dahveed

    I think its clear by Johns perspective and lines up perfectly with what you Rob stated here~ the Hawks simply will take the Best player on thier board instead of chasing a need. And as bonkers as it sounds that would very very possibly be Stroud .I would have Carter but thats another story and Im not the Hawks GM. who was bitten multiple times The fact that teams like the Texans would have : paralysis by analysis is fitting .

    • geoff u

      Well (paraphrasing) he said best player available who fits the Seahawks. So the best player isn’t simply the most physically gifted, but also mentally as well. Thus a renewed interest in high character, mature players who can handle life in the NFL and not have it be to big for them. This is what rules Carter out, or at least knocks him down a few pegs.

  45. GerryG

    3-4, 4-3… either way, the shear lack of numbers on the DL currently is absolutely terrifying! It is going to be fascinating watching the draft unfold, which is clearly the major lynchpin to deciphering where they are going with this. The picks should be telling what type of scheme they are going to implement.

    Then, there are the possibilities of drafting guys at S and TE. Get guys there, and maybe Jamal is a post June 1, and Fant is traded for anything that ditches the salary. Then you have some $ to add some vets to the line (Ford, Clark, Woods?). Retreads for sure, but at least they are experienced. If you don’t get any TE/S talent, and we draft 3,4,5 front 7 players, then wow, we are going to be really young and inexperienced up front. A rather terrifying prospect, considering the learning curve coming into the league at those positions.

    I am champing at the bit to see what happens this weekend!

    • Brodie

      I’m with you Gerry. The current state of the DL is a skeleton crew. How they go about making a functional rotation up front is going to be very interesting. Agree that taking 3+ in the draft seems likely, but how many snaps do you really want a day 3 rookie DL taking?

      • Patrick Toler

        Yeah, ideally they draft two DL in the first couple of days. Maybe you can get a space eater on day 3 who is ready to step in, but I think that is a lot to count on (despite Schneider’s comments).

  46. PJ in Seattle

    If you haven’t seen it, this video, refreshingly free of commentary, of CJ Stroud in the Peach Bowl is worth a watch.

    • Hawkdawg

      Man, I do like the way he stands, adjusts, slides or escapes the pocket. Eyes downfield, pressure or no. Hard to be too bummed if he’s the guy, no matter if your favorite is another of the Big 4.

      • PJ in Seattle

        WIth you. His poise in the pocket, touch, and accuracy are exactly what you want to see in a franchise QB prospect.

        I’m fully on the ARich train but if he’s gone and Stroud is there, I will be very happy. Until the last week or so, it was almost a foregone conclusion that Stroud was going 1 or 2. Now with all the S2 and ‘he’s not coachable’ and he blew off the Manning camp stuff… It would be a gift to have him drop to #5.

    • DJ 1/2 way

      Nice video link. I did not notice Carter once.

  47. vichawkfan

    It was a master class that game. Doesn’t show like a 4th quartile reaction/processing.

    Then I watch Richardson – and something jumps off the screen at you. Obvious superior arm strength but when the bullets are flying he’s very decisive

    • Hawkdawg

      Plus he is a beast when he runs. A very fast one.

  48. vbullen65

    Does anybody know if the agent accompanies his client to the top 30 visits? For example, did Rosenhaus come out to VMAC with Carter?

    • Rob Staton

      No he doesn’t

      • Sea Mode

        You mean he didn’t show up at the front door holding Carter’s hand…? Don’t ruin this for me in my imagination. 😂

        • Patrick Toler

          Bobby and Cliff accompanied him. Practice run.

          • geoff u

            Did they bring a binky and stuffed animal?

  49. Dahveed

    IF Stroud is There AND Richardson damn that would be nuts and show the complete stupidity of teams atop the draft….I would lean Richardson because we have Geno but if they(John) went Stroud how could you be disappointed.

    • geoff u

      Well, most of these teams are picking this high for a reason…

      • 509 Chris

        To be fair a team thats seriously far away could feep like theyd just ruin a young qb and may feel like building a line or getting some weapons first might create the proper environment for a young qb to succeed. I could see this in Houston for example. Stroud or ar would really struggle getting beat up and losing a lot while trying to learn to be a pro.

  50. PJ in Seattle

    I think it’s been shared here before, but this a good read during the dead period. Not a lot of people know about his upbringing and that his father is doing 38 years in prison.

    No matter what happens from here, this young man has overcome major adversity and disadvantages to reach the highest echelon of his sport. You know Pete and John have to love that.

  51. Sea Mode

    Wow, Thursday might really get crazy if this is true.

    Tony Pauline

    Latest- The Cardinals are getting calls from teams who want to move to #3 then take one of the offensive lineman. Did not hear which OT is being targeted.

    • geoff u

      Well Darnell Wright makes the most sense, but teams don’t always do what makes sense. It really doesn’t matter which offensive lineman though, if this is true, but only that it’s true and it happens, meaning at least one QB will be available at 5. The downside is it pushes a defender down a slot too, which is a direction Seattle may go (though they’d better not!).

      • GerryG

        I read that as AZ trades down and takes an OL, not a team trades up with AZ to take an OL

        • geoff u

          lol yeah that makes more sense. Damnit AZ, stay put.

          • Wilson502

            Seattle should be moving up and quit relying on hopium that AR or whoever falls to them.

        • geoff u

          Reads both ways though. Someone needs to ask Tony for clarification.

    • Rob Staton

      I’m worried about someone trading above Seattle for AR

      • Sea Mode

        Well, he sure could be the next Allen/Mahomes that JS loved and was “in on”…

        (sorry, I’m not helping, am I… 😁)

        • Wilson502

          He needs to grow a pair and make the move. If he wants to prove he has any guts to do what it takes to go get the QBoTF instead of just talking about it like a cheap talking point, then effing do it and quit pussyfooting around.

      • GerryG

        If it keeps WA on the board, I will take it for now.

        Who knows how I feel about that in 2-3 years…

        • Rob Staton

          I think Anderson will be the #2 pick

          • Spectator

            That would leaves us with Levis or Stroud tho, so not super doomed.

      • Wilson502

        Then Seattle should move up then and quit relying on hopium.

      • Patrick Toler

        What lesson will Schneider have learned from 2017? Will he let another team be aggressive and get his guy?

        Assuming a lot here obviously.

        • Wilson502

          If he lets another team “get his guy” when he had plenty of opportunity to do so himself, then he didnt learn a damn thing. All that talk about Mahomes and Allen would amount to nothing more than a cheap ass talking point at this stage. JS to prove it wasnt some cheap talking point, otherwise he’s just all talk.

      • Huggie Hawk

        This is my biggest draft fear

    • Malanch

      “Teams…want to move to #3 then take one of the offensive lineman.”

      Okay, well, at least we know what’s NOT true.

    • DK

      Watching NFL Live yesterday they did a fill in the blank segment with one of the questions being “In 5 years the best player from this draft will be….?” Mina Kimes said Jalen Carter, one of the other panelists said Bryce You g, bud Louis Riddick, was emphatic that it was going to be Darrell Wright, he said he will be an All-Pro RT playing at a high level for at least a decade.

      The rumor with the Cardinals and what Bucky Brooks said about this being a crazy draft has me thinking teams are going to be ranking players very differently from
      Each other. So, we may see teams drafting guys higher that predicted based on scheme fit or guys falling for the same reasons.

      • Rob Staton

        Mina Kimes always seems to settle into whatever view Seahawks Twitter is peddling

        • Huggie Hawk

          Last draft she was bemoaning the Ken Walker pick, and I think saying we should have taken Malik or someone… per hawks Twitter

          • Rob Staton

            Exactly, as I was saying

            There isn’t a Seahawks Twitter group-think take that Mina didn’t like

            • Wilson502

              Does Mina Kimes have any opinions of her own or does she just parrot whatever low IQ flaming pile of trash that the Seahawks Twitter hivemind puts out?

    • 509 Chris

      I’m confident that Seattle has been in close contact with AZ and Houston to say, “don’t make any deal without letting us make an offer.” I know people are nervous that someone will trade up for AR but I think if anyone’s trys to make a deal Seattle will match with that monster #5 pick plus #20 or #37. Anyone else wants to beat that they have to get stupid. H9nestly I don’t care if we get stupid to match it. We’ll get the qb yall I know it

  52. Sea Mode


    Jim Nagy

    Talking to NFL scouts about who impressed in team interviews & one name keeps coming up—Tennessee’s Byron Young.

    He worked at Dollar General and played juco ball prior to Vols.

    Scouts say you can feel his hunger and passion.

    @byron_97 also crushed Combine w/ 4.43 40 & 11’ BJ.

    • GerryG

      Just dont take him too high. Please no more 25 year old rookies (drafted high)

    • Malanch

      Byron Young tied Anthony Richardson’s forty at six pounds heavier? What the hell is going on with these freaks? Calijah Kancey, Adetomiwa Adebawore, Jordan Davis… Man, I swear somebody’s cooking stuff up in a lab somewhere.

  53. Brian

    I just feel like Witherspoon is a real option. He checks all the boxes, especially with leadership. He has the chance to be elite – add him to an already very interesting group and you have a secondary that will literally be vicious. Yes, the trenches are in need, but there is still a full draft ahead of that #5 pick. I know, I know – Caroll doesn’t draft DBs that high…

    • geoff u

      He’s also 5′-11, 180 lbs, with 31″ arms

    • Wilson502

      This would be a massive waste of resources for an once in a generation pick. Sorry a CB has even less value than a EDGE, much less than a QBoTF. I just dont see it at #5. Not with him being 5’11, 180 and 31″ arms as Geoff updated below.

  54. Sea Mode

    Will Levis is now the betting favorite to go No. 2 overall, Tyree after him.

  55. 509 Chris

    I hear the Aldon Smith comparisons but I just don’t see it other than their frames. Aldon was one of my favorite players in the league for his brief time doing it. And he was a force right out of the gate. I believe if he had not had the personal issues he may have surpassed the great LT as the most dominant player of all time. I don’t remember his college career much though. Did the tape leave one wanting more similar to Wilson?

    • Rob Staton

      Aldon Smith also looked nothing like Aldon Smith at Missouri

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